I remember the exact same comments when Win98 came out and again with 98SE2, then again with XP over 2000.
Only time will tell if it's worth it or not.
Selective sampling. What about Win2000? are you including the 95/98/ME family? What about 3 and 3.11 and other incl DOS?
I see this little meme do the rounds but it doesn't stack up at all. It works for XP, Vista and 7 but that's it. 8 is still too early to tell and anything prior to WinXP breaks it.
I do:)
I can see how Linux offers something for developers, but for 99% of the rest of the world Windows does everything they need. And no amount of hating will change this fact.
Yeah? what product are you using to do Excel style Powerview/Powerpivots of data direct from an SQL server? Oh and with two clicks embed that dynamically into an email which automatically shows all the recipients free/busy data and plugins with every major social network so you can schedule a meeting with internal and external work colleagues to discuss your new report? Or maybe if you need to update your monthly presentation in Powerpoint and it has automatically updated all your charts direct from Excel linked workbooks so there's zero double handling of data?
I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I'm just saying that in 20 years of working side by side with Linux "evangelists" in businesses that need to work to earn money, I've never seen it. Quite happen to be enlightened however.
What didn't we like about the Mac Mini? I haven't used an expansion port on a PC about 15 years other than a 3Dvideo card. And if I want a gaming rig I'll get something big and airy with lots of fans. If I need a grunt box, I'll run up a VM on my servers at work. For everything else the Mac Mini is perfect. I never understood why PCs we're so big these days. 90% of them are simple Web/Email/Word processors, the Mac Mini and new this Intel thing are all most of us need.
Considering most of the supporters of Linux/Apple (dare I say "fanboys") have REALLY high UID's or are anonymous cowards.... yes, it is hard to believe, and it is hard to understand why after all the years of abuse from the Microsoft crowd the Linux/Apple fans would continue to come in and spend most of their time defending their fanboyness to people who wouldn't use windows if it came with a blowjob from Selma Hayek.
See how that works?
The problem with this approach is you're cobbling together a whole bunch of stuff from all over the place which requires special skills/knowledge and a lot of time and effort to make work. Then the more important question is how do you support it? Great if you've got the gun who knows all this stuff and stays on top of all the dependency issues and update hell, but with MS I can get any one of a thousand guys at a moments notice who can come in without any documentation or prior knowledge and immediately understand how the environment is put together. By going the ecosystem path, a license fee is a small price to pay to know that everything works out of the box. I've worked in support organisations and this is the biggest complaint I used to hear for the Linux teams. Home brew solutions which take a month just to figure out how the hell the original admin put it all together. As an example the last admin at the place I'm working now has a 32 page script for managing network drives, printer mappings and some other stuff. I spent about 3 hours trying figure it out and gave up. It was dumped and replaced with a standard group policy setting in AD that did the same thing. The bonus of this approach is when I leave, the next guy will know exactly what is going on.
Care to name something better than Exchange?
Lotus Notes is an abomination and I don't know anything else that has the same features and integration in this space. We're not talking just email here, but full Corporate Messaging/Calendaring/Contacts with all the third party support, features and integration. I've been around the blocks and even the most zealous Linux freaks I've met admit that Exchange does more for less effort. They'll still say they hate it, but I've never heard anyone name a better product.
I did. Eventually. I loved WinXP, still using it right now. I tried Vista and hated it, tried 7 and thought it was the same as Vista. I started a new job recently with a Win7 desktop, but this time around there was a guy at work who was an MS gun. Every time I had a quirk and pet hate he showed how its supposed to work and now I'm a convert. Going back to WinXP from 7 is the same as going back to NT4 from WinXP. aLl it took was some patience and some education. I think this is the part that frustrates most people, they try the new version without really understandng the new way of doing things, then get frustrated becasue they try to do things the old way on a new system.
I've just tried Win8 and have the same thoughts about every other new release of MS OSes. I hate it. But being a bit older now, I realise I'll probably only hate it for a while then one day I'll get over the hump and won't look back.
The one thing that will prevent anyone from replacing MS is the Apps and integration. There is no replacement for Office or Exchange. SQL maybe but it's a whole world easier than anything else if you already have MS skills and not much DBA experience. IIS maybe but again, if you've already got it and it works with AD, Exchange and SQL seamlessly then you're not going to change simply for the sake of changing. Then there's the myriad of third party apps which only work on MS. Then there the new versions with new features. SQL with Sharepoint and Office 2013 is a killer. We're replacing our expensive proprietary BI solution because MS does this out of the box now. Libre/Open Office doesn't even come close to this functionality
I've worked in a few different businesses in my time and every business has a requirement for this type of stuff. MS isn't going anywhere soon.
I don't get this whole "N-word" logic. The word is nigger, so why not just say nigger? When you write "N-word" I read it as nigger so you haven't achieved anything by not typing it. I never understood this logic. When something is offensive, people think that they should cover it up. But this merely re-enforces the offensive nature of the word. By re-enforcing the taboo, you give it oxygen.
The quickest path to solving this problem would be if everyone used the word nigger every day. Chevy should release a car called the Chevy Nigger, Samsung's next smartphone could be the Samsung Nigger S3 or maybe the Apple iNigger? By trivialising a word it loses it's power and it give racists one less method of inflicting their brand of hate.
I see it as someone sending me a garbage document.
Good for you. Unfortunately, the rest of the world doesn't care for your open source crusade, they just want shit to work. And right now, Office is the standard tool that the majority of people use for doing business. You see MS is the analogy of English, and LO/OO is Esperanto. It might be better for one reason or another but no-one really gives a fuck.
I still to this day do not know anyone who prefers the Ribbon over the previous interface -- however, there are folks who don't know the old interface (ie, they're new in the workforce) and accept the shitty Ribbon and live with it less unhappily.
My experience is the opposite. A lot of people moan and groan about change, but most people get on with it and once over the hump can't work out how they ever lived without it. I've just come through a recent Office 2010 migration and the overwhelming feedback from most users was positive. We did get the odd moan exactly what your post sounds like, but those came from the people who always moan about everything. The air con is too cold, oh now it's too hot, there's too much noise, the printer is too far form my desk...
If Microsoft loses the consumer market, it will lose the corporate market as well. Microsoft owns the corporate desktop market, because users are familiar with it's products.
That logic might apply for the Desktop OS, but like most MS bashers you seem to have not taken into account the monopoly MS has with AD/DNS/DHCP/GPO/Exchange/SQL/IIS and the corporate back office ecosystem that everyone knows and understands. There simply isn't anything that comes close to this*, and if you're not moving away from that, then you may as well make life easier for yourself and keep an MS desktop too. I don't see MS going anywhere. Worst case is Win8 flops, and MS maintain support for Win7 until they release a replacement, then life carries on.
*Feel free to post a suggested replacement. But don't bother with a hodge podge home brew mix of unsupported free apps. Any viable replaceble has to have the same or better features, with the same or better UI, and the same or better support.
Perhaps that's the problem -- you should do some reading.
That is the problem with security theatre, it's all too much reading and hyperbole, not enough reality.
I read that the commies are coming, then I read that the terrorists are coming, now it's something else is coming. Guess what, I stopped reading and the sky didn't fall on my head.
We don't like your common sense in here. Just admit that that Windows 8 will be the death of MS just like Win 95 was, and Win2000 and Win XP and Office 2007 and we can all feel good about ourselves...
These might seem like "minor" things, but it's an accumulation of "minor" issues in LibreOffice that make it less useful for us than it should be.
Pretty much goes for Linux on the desktop in general. As a user I don't care why you think it's bad, MS products are generally the 'least worst' once you take into account all relevant considerations.
Windows 7 will be the last loved OS by Microsoft. Windows 8 will be rejected in an unprecedented manner. It will be rejected by users... that has been done before. Windows 8 will be rejected by developers -- the people Microsoft has most depended on. At the end of the day, what keeps people using Windows is the applications. And when people start coding for other platforms instead of Windows 8, that'll be the end of Microsoft's reign. After that, it's all coasting downhill under its own weight.
Lol. Let share a little bit of wisdom with you. People don't stop using something because it sucks, people stop using things because there are "better" alternatives. The key word here is "better". Right now there is nothing that even comes close to Microsoft's suite of offerings for the corporate market. You might argue the Linux is technically better for reason X or Apple is better because reason Y, but the simple fact is that MS has the market cornered for business apps, and they are the incumbent, which is an extremely hard position to change. Don't be confused by Apple's recent success, consumer's are fickle which is why MS has invested heavily in Corporate lock-in. The only cases of MS "rejection" were because MS themselves had better alternatives, not the competition. Windows 8 might not be your cup of tea, but I've got a prediction for you. The only thing that will beat it will either be Windows 7 or Windows 9.
This is no different to Windows. Windows driver support is especially poor if you have a GPU older than 3 years.
Crap. I know this is Slashdot and we bag Windows here, but if there's one thing Windows does better than everyone else it's driver support for older (within reason - ie at least 6 or 7 years old) hardware .
Ah good old Slashdot, rage against MS, get modded up.
Unfortunately for you MS does have a lot of tools to get people back on the bus. Win8, Win2012, IE10, server, desktop, laptop, surface, phone, Office, AD, Exchange, IIS,.NET, SQL, Skype, Skydrive, Bing, Maps, Outlook.com etc etc You anti MS freaks don't really seem to have any comprehension about how ingrained MS is in the corporate space, and all the thousands of business productivity apps that only work on MS, and the leverage that gives them to offer a seamless integration for consumer devices. MS might not dominate to the same extent as the late 90's, but the Apple honeymoon is over and IMO MS are in the right place at the time to make back some ground.
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I remember the exact same comments when Win98 came out and again with 98SE2, then again with XP over 2000. Only time will tell if it's worth it or not.
Selective sampling. What about Win2000? are you including the 95/98/ME family? What about 3 and 3.11 and other incl DOS? I see this little meme do the rounds but it doesn't stack up at all. It works for XP, Vista and 7 but that's it. 8 is still too early to tell and anything prior to WinXP breaks it.
I do :)
I can see how Linux offers something for developers, but for 99% of the rest of the world Windows does everything they need. And no amount of hating will change this fact.
Yeah? what product are you using to do Excel style Powerview/Powerpivots of data direct from an SQL server? Oh and with two clicks embed that dynamically into an email which automatically shows all the recipients free/busy data and plugins with every major social network so you can schedule a meeting with internal and external work colleagues to discuss your new report? Or maybe if you need to update your monthly presentation in Powerpoint and it has automatically updated all your charts direct from Excel linked workbooks so there's zero double handling of data? I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I'm just saying that in 20 years of working side by side with Linux "evangelists" in businesses that need to work to earn money, I've never seen it. Quite happen to be enlightened however.
Feel free to explain how having a low UID counts for anything? I've been here since 98 - a new account doesn't always equate to a new user.
I'm sure rest of the world is quite happy to keep using MSO with or without you.
What didn't we like about the Mac Mini? I haven't used an expansion port on a PC about 15 years other than a 3Dvideo card. And if I want a gaming rig I'll get something big and airy with lots of fans. If I need a grunt box, I'll run up a VM on my servers at work. For everything else the Mac Mini is perfect. I never understood why PCs we're so big these days. 90% of them are simple Web/Email/Word processors, the Mac Mini and new this Intel thing are all most of us need.
Considering most of the supporters of Linux/Apple (dare I say "fanboys") have REALLY high UID's or are anonymous cowards.... yes, it is hard to believe, and it is hard to understand why after all the years of abuse from the Microsoft crowd the Linux/Apple fans would continue to come in and spend most of their time defending their fanboyness to people who wouldn't use windows if it came with a blowjob from Selma Hayek. See how that works?
The problem with this approach is you're cobbling together a whole bunch of stuff from all over the place which requires special skills/knowledge and a lot of time and effort to make work. Then the more important question is how do you support it? Great if you've got the gun who knows all this stuff and stays on top of all the dependency issues and update hell, but with MS I can get any one of a thousand guys at a moments notice who can come in without any documentation or prior knowledge and immediately understand how the environment is put together. By going the ecosystem path, a license fee is a small price to pay to know that everything works out of the box. I've worked in support organisations and this is the biggest complaint I used to hear for the Linux teams. Home brew solutions which take a month just to figure out how the hell the original admin put it all together. As an example the last admin at the place I'm working now has a 32 page script for managing network drives, printer mappings and some other stuff. I spent about 3 hours trying figure it out and gave up. It was dumped and replaced with a standard group policy setting in AD that did the same thing. The bonus of this approach is when I leave, the next guy will know exactly what is going on.
Care to name something better than Exchange? Lotus Notes is an abomination and I don't know anything else that has the same features and integration in this space. We're not talking just email here, but full Corporate Messaging/Calendaring/Contacts with all the third party support, features and integration. I've been around the blocks and even the most zealous Linux freaks I've met admit that Exchange does more for less effort. They'll still say they hate it, but I've never heard anyone name a better product.
People didn't stop using Windows XP voluntarily.
I did. Eventually. I loved WinXP, still using it right now. I tried Vista and hated it, tried 7 and thought it was the same as Vista. I started a new job recently with a Win7 desktop, but this time around there was a guy at work who was an MS gun. Every time I had a quirk and pet hate he showed how its supposed to work and now I'm a convert. Going back to WinXP from 7 is the same as going back to NT4 from WinXP. aLl it took was some patience and some education. I think this is the part that frustrates most people, they try the new version without really understandng the new way of doing things, then get frustrated becasue they try to do things the old way on a new system. I've just tried Win8 and have the same thoughts about every other new release of MS OSes. I hate it. But being a bit older now, I realise I'll probably only hate it for a while then one day I'll get over the hump and won't look back. The one thing that will prevent anyone from replacing MS is the Apps and integration. There is no replacement for Office or Exchange. SQL maybe but it's a whole world easier than anything else if you already have MS skills and not much DBA experience. IIS maybe but again, if you've already got it and it works with AD, Exchange and SQL seamlessly then you're not going to change simply for the sake of changing. Then there's the myriad of third party apps which only work on MS. Then there the new versions with new features. SQL with Sharepoint and Office 2013 is a killer. We're replacing our expensive proprietary BI solution because MS does this out of the box now. Libre/Open Office doesn't even come close to this functionality I've worked in a few different businesses in my time and every business has a requirement for this type of stuff. MS isn't going anywhere soon.
That's one more than the Aussies then?
:)
At July 2012, people born in New Zealand had an unemployment rate of 4.8 per cent, compared to 4.9 per cent for people born in Australia.
Gary Oldman?
I don't get this whole "N-word" logic. The word is nigger, so why not just say nigger? When you write "N-word" I read it as nigger so you haven't achieved anything by not typing it. I never understood this logic. When something is offensive, people think that they should cover it up. But this merely re-enforces the offensive nature of the word. By re-enforcing the taboo, you give it oxygen.
The quickest path to solving this problem would be if everyone used the word nigger every day. Chevy should release a car called the Chevy Nigger, Samsung's next smartphone could be the Samsung Nigger S3 or maybe the Apple iNigger? By trivialising a word it loses it's power and it give racists one less method of inflicting their brand of hate.
I think he believes in manners and respect. Relax, not everyone is out to take your gun and bible off you. .
I see it as someone sending me a garbage document.
Good for you. Unfortunately, the rest of the world doesn't care for your open source crusade, they just want shit to work. And right now, Office is the standard tool that the majority of people use for doing business. You see MS is the analogy of English, and LO/OO is Esperanto. It might be better for one reason or another but no-one really gives a fuck.
I still to this day do not know anyone who prefers the Ribbon over the previous interface -- however, there are folks who don't know the old interface (ie, they're new in the workforce) and accept the shitty Ribbon and live with it less unhappily.
My experience is the opposite. A lot of people moan and groan about change, but most people get on with it and once over the hump can't work out how they ever lived without it. I've just come through a recent Office 2010 migration and the overwhelming feedback from most users was positive. We did get the odd moan exactly what your post sounds like, but those came from the people who always moan about everything. The air con is too cold, oh now it's too hot, there's too much noise, the printer is too far form my desk...
If Microsoft loses the consumer market, it will lose the corporate market as well. Microsoft owns the corporate desktop market, because users are familiar with it's products.
That logic might apply for the Desktop OS, but like most MS bashers you seem to have not taken into account the monopoly MS has with AD/DNS/DHCP/GPO/Exchange/SQL/IIS and the corporate back office ecosystem that everyone knows and understands. There simply isn't anything that comes close to this*, and if you're not moving away from that, then you may as well make life easier for yourself and keep an MS desktop too. I don't see MS going anywhere. Worst case is Win8 flops, and MS maintain support for Win7 until they release a replacement, then life carries on. *Feel free to post a suggested replacement. But don't bother with a hodge podge home brew mix of unsupported free apps. Any viable replaceble has to have the same or better features, with the same or better UI, and the same or better support.
Perhaps that's the problem -- you should do some reading.
That is the problem with security theatre, it's all too much reading and hyperbole, not enough reality. I read that the commies are coming, then I read that the terrorists are coming, now it's something else is coming. Guess what, I stopped reading and the sky didn't fall on my head.
Maybe you should've 'delivered' some samples of your products into the Beehive directly so that the law makers could 'examine' them close up?
It is more complicated than that.
We don't like your common sense in here. Just admit that that Windows 8 will be the death of MS just like Win 95 was, and Win2000 and Win XP and Office 2007 and we can all feel good about ourselves...
These might seem like "minor" things, but it's an accumulation of "minor" issues in LibreOffice that make it less useful for us than it should be.
Pretty much goes for Linux on the desktop in general. As a user I don't care why you think it's bad, MS products are generally the 'least worst' once you take into account all relevant considerations.
Windows 7 will be the last loved OS by Microsoft. Windows 8 will be rejected in an unprecedented manner. It will be rejected by users... that has been done before. Windows 8 will be rejected by developers -- the people Microsoft has most depended on. At the end of the day, what keeps people using Windows is the applications. And when people start coding for other platforms instead of Windows 8, that'll be the end of Microsoft's reign. After that, it's all coasting downhill under its own weight.
Lol. Let share a little bit of wisdom with you. People don't stop using something because it sucks, people stop using things because there are "better" alternatives. The key word here is "better". Right now there is nothing that even comes close to Microsoft's suite of offerings for the corporate market. You might argue the Linux is technically better for reason X or Apple is better because reason Y, but the simple fact is that MS has the market cornered for business apps, and they are the incumbent, which is an extremely hard position to change. Don't be confused by Apple's recent success, consumer's are fickle which is why MS has invested heavily in Corporate lock-in. The only cases of MS "rejection" were because MS themselves had better alternatives, not the competition. Windows 8 might not be your cup of tea, but I've got a prediction for you. The only thing that will beat it will either be Windows 7 or Windows 9.
This is no different to Windows. Windows driver support is especially poor if you have a GPU older than 3 years.
Crap. I know this is Slashdot and we bag Windows here, but if there's one thing Windows does better than everyone else it's driver support for older (within reason - ie at least 6 or 7 years old) hardware .
Ah good old Slashdot, rage against MS, get modded up. Unfortunately for you MS does have a lot of tools to get people back on the bus. Win8, Win2012, IE10, server, desktop, laptop, surface, phone, Office, AD, Exchange, IIS, .NET, SQL, Skype, Skydrive, Bing, Maps, Outlook.com etc etc You anti MS freaks don't really seem to have any comprehension about how ingrained MS is in the corporate space, and all the thousands of business productivity apps that only work on MS, and the leverage that gives them to offer a seamless integration for consumer devices. MS might not dominate to the same extent as the late 90's, but the Apple honeymoon is over and IMO MS are in the right place at the time to make back some ground.