Yes, death and taxes. Although I am a law-abiding tax-paying citi.... naahhhh.... not yet, just permanent resident, I do not consider this hudge amount of money that is deducted from my every paycheck is supposed to be spent on something good for people. IMHO taxes is just the most expensive service you can buy in this world today. You - pay taxes, World - leave you alone. Think of an awful lot of heavily armed people ( sometimes refered to as army ) who do not come to take your money personally, think of all those cops who do not use their guns on you even though they could get away with it, think of public transportation that is still transporting... somebody... somewhere...:) This is what you pay your taxes for, so that all this huge basically uncontrolable and uncontroled structure of govermental organizations just lets you live your life in peace.
Yes, eventualy you will take your place near Yoda.
on
Generations
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· Score: 1
OK Let me tell you about myself. I started my career as network engineer from my CNE training school ( no I don't have a degree:) ). And my Netware 3.x skills are already outdated by at least 3-4 years:). But now I know enough about networking in general to quickly learn whatever is going to be the next buzzword technology in my field whether it is Linux, NT or any other. When ethernet switches appeared I took a manual and now I know this technology. If some strange and mysterious new shit comes out tomorrow, I will figure it out just the same. I always do, why should anything that can be expected be different? This what is nice about being a geek:)))
Hello everyone, I will ( as usual ) ramble a little bit. Most of the posts that I have seen about dangers of commercialization of linux are IMHO missing a very important point. Open Source is not about Linux. Linux is just one of a few Open Source operating systems however much we like it. Linux kernel is GPL'd and therefore cannot be made proprietory by anyone or anything. The so called "dangers" that people are talking about basically all come down to the fear that commercialization will kill the spirit of the "Linux community". But "Linux community" is basically just a very big and friendly user group around a particular OS, while "Open Source community" is a world wide organisation of people who love what they do and are ready to share the products of their labour with anyone who might like it. Yes, I think that if/when Linux goes to a full commercial scale we will see that some true patriots of Open Source and/or Free Software will turn away from Linux and maybe Linux community will change a lot like the Internet community has changed after it became what it is now. But I also think that commercializing an open source GPL's OS is a really big step for ( let's not be scared of big words ) Humanity and Civilization as a whole. I think that if/when Linux goes full-scale it will start a new era of economic relations.
Just imagine this for a second that when Microsoft came out with Windows95 it made it open source from the beginning. What would happen? As MS ( and all the rest of them squares:) ) keep their software closed, the only thing we can do is complain to them or everybody about how ugly and slow and buggy it is. If it was open source it is a different buiseness, is it ugly? OK let's do some coding and fix it. We can come up with a better version and MS ( if they agree that it is better ) can incorporate it into the main release. And everybody is happy.
I hope that commercial linux is a door in this direction. It is a step to the times when people will actually do things for the good of the community ( and community is basically just other people isn't it ) instead of personal profit. Getting back to the situation at hand, linux is going commercial and probably in near future we will see some linux distros which are full of proprietory stuff and a lot of proprietory software. But isn't this a good test of what Open Source community is good for? If some corporative shmucks can make software better then we do than it means that we are just not as good as we think we are. If some Big Bad company makes a linux distro with their own DE, then one of two things. Nobody is gonna use it and use KDE/Gnome instead or it is better then KDE and Gnome. As long as I understand, one cannot make Linux proprietory enough for us not to be able to run any software we like on it. And after all. Linux is just a small ( although very significant ) part of The Movement. If Linux should make one more step to better times and die on the way, we should not grieve, but get back to coding and debugging and testing and documenting and all the stuff and then the rise of the next star of Open Source will rise and shine and move us one more step to the big Future.
> Ooooooooohhhhhhh!!! Those stupid, close-minded, ignorant U**X veterans. I hate you, hate you, hate you. Every time I hear something like "GUI is for newbies only" or "if you have emacs you do not need anything else" or "if they do not know how to rewire the CPU socket to make 2 Celerons run on a SMP motherboard, they are just dumb users and should be ignored" I get very close to being torn to parts by accumulating anger and frustration. Why do you guys think that everybody who doesn't want to know anything about computers is stupid? Why don't you RTFM on your psychology manual. maybe it is not the users who are stupid not to be able to use your OS, but your OS is too stupid to understand what actual users ( hard-core fans excluded ) want from it. >
Now that some steam is out, let's talk real things. I understand that it is always insulting when after you have climbed a few mountains, crossed rivers and swamps, forced your way through other dangerous terrains and finaly got to the point where you can rest and felt so proud of yourself for getting here, someone have built a nice highway and everybody is getting here in air-conditioned limos and walk the same ground without even getting soles of their showes dirty. This is where all this nonsence about "good old times" is coming from. Old timers who have got they grey hairs from wading undocumented peices of source code just to make their system do something do not like it when people stick a CD in, boot, answer a few questions and get a nice GUI with everything if not completely usable than at least pretending to be working. Being unable to make the old problems to live again they say that whoever didn't take part in them cannot appreciate whatever is going on now. It is like an old bum trying to teach a yuppie to appreciate sleeping in subway because it is much warmer then in the street. Let's get even more particular. In case of Linux and Joe users I find it very good when a Joe/Jane user actually hears about Linux and attempts to install it on his/her computer. OS installation is a big step for a non-techie person and an attempt should be regarded with respect. So when a newbie is writing to a news group or calls tech support and says "Hello, I bought my linux CD and it asks me to partition my disk, what do I do?" IMHO he should get an answer like "Hey man, welcome to the party. If you have your manual take a look at the installation chapter or go to such and such web site and read this and this. If you have any other problems call/post them here." instead of "RTFM you stupid loser". As a Linux fan and an IT professional I have found that in many cases Linux ( and I do not mean Slackware ) is much easier to install than Win95/98. I did A LOT of installs of both and I have to say that my RH 5.2 is working as a charm and I still cannot configure half of my hardware in Win95 on my home system. I agree that CLI is much more powerful and fast than GUI interfaces in most of the cases, but CLI is a resort of a power user, and a clueless user should have a place to learn to become a power user. If you tell Joe user that he has to read a 500+ pages manual before he even dares to touch his Linux CD he is going to get insulted and quite rightfuly so, for he just want to use his system and not to become a tech-wizard. Learning is required, but system should help you to learn, not discourage you. I believe that if GUI is done as it should be done ( and I do not mean MS products ) it will be exactly as powerful as that particular CLI program that it interfaces with like if we have a GUI 'tar' it should have as many different options as a regular 'tar' maybe even more for GUI version and CLI version require a little different set of functionality. Surely a person who have mastered CLI will be more productive using pipes and redirs and flow control etc etc etc. But I think that user should be able to use his/her system before he masters CLI. Many people in Linux community are saying that Linux OS is about choices. Choice of Linux vs other OSs, choice of GUI vs. CLI, KDE vs. GNOME, XFree86 vs. commercial X servers, GCC vs EGCS etc etc etc. I think I have been rambling enough to get my points through to at least somebody out there. Don't close your mind from users only because they don't know and don't know how to find out. They will learn, but after MS enslavement they have to first learn how to learn again. Sorry. Flame me if you want to, but this is what I think and this is what I said and going to say again when needed.
Ooooooooohhhhhhh!!! Those stupid, close-minded, ignorant U**X veterans. I hate you, hate you, hate you. Every time I hear something like "GUI is for newbies only" or "if you have emacs you do not need anything else" or "if they do not know how to rewire the CPU socket to make 2 Celerons run on a SMP motherboard, they are just dumb users and should be ignored" I get very close to being torn to parts by accumulating anger and frustration. Why do you guys think that everybody who doesn't want to know anything about computers is stupid? Why don't you RTFM on your psychology manual. maybe it is not the users who are stupid not to be able to use your OS, but your OS is too stupid to understand what actual users ( hard-core fans excluded ) want from it.
Now that some steam is out, let's talk real things. I understand that it is always insulting when after you have climbed a few mountains, crossed rivers and swamps, forced your way through other dangerous terrains and finaly got to the point where you can rest and felt so proud of yourself for getting here, someone have built a nice highway and everybody is getting here in air-conditioned limos and walk the same ground without even getting soles of their showes dirty. This is where all this nonsence about "good old times" is coming from. Old timers who have got they grey hairs from wading undocumented peices of source code just to make their system do something do not like it when people stick a CD in, boot, answer a few questions and get a nice GUI with everything if not completely usable than at least pretending to be working. Being unable to make the old problems to live again they say that whoever didn't take part in them cannot appreciate whatever is going on now. It is like an old bum trying to teach a yuppie to appreciate sleeping in subway because it is much warmer then in the street. Let's get even more particular. In case of Linux and Joe users I find it very good when a Joe/Jane user actually hears about Linux and attempts to install it on his/her computer. OS installation is a big step for a non-techie person and an attempt should be regarded with respect. So when a newbie is writing to a news group or calls tech support and says "Hello, I bought my linux CD and it asks me to partition my disk, what do I do?" IMHO he should get an answer like "Hey man, welcome to the party. If you have your manual take a look at the installation chapter or go to such and such web site and read this and this. If you have any other problems call/post them here." instead of "RTFM you stupid loser". As a Linux fan and an IT professional I have found that in many cases Linux ( and I do not mean Slackware ) is much easier to install than Win95/98. I did A LOT of installs of both and I have to say that my RH 5.2 is working as a charm and I still cannot configure half of my hardware in Win95 on my home system. I agree that CLI is much more powerful and fast than GUI interfaces in most of the cases, but CLI is a resort of a power user, and a clueless user should have a place to learn to become a power user. If you tell Joe user that he has to read a 500+ pages manual before he even dares to touch his Linux CD he is going to get insulted and quite rightfuly so, for he just want to use his system and not to become a tech-wizard. Learning is required, but system should help you to learn, not discourage you. I believe that if GUI is done as it should be done ( and I do not mean MS products ) it will be exactly as powerful as that particular CLI program that it interfaces with like if we have a GUI 'tar' it should have as many different options as a regular 'tar' maybe even more for GUI version and CLI version require a little different set of functionality. Surely a person who have mastered CLI will be more productive using pipes and redirs and flow control etc etc etc. But I think that user should be able to use his/her system before he masters CLI. Many people in Linux community are saying that Linux OS is about choices. Choice of Linux vs other OSs, choice of GUI vs. CLI, KDE vs. GNOME, XFree86 vs. commercial X servers, GCC vs EGCS etc etc etc. I think I have been rambling enough to get my points through to at least somebody out there. Don't close your mind from users only because they don't know and don't know how to find out. They will learn, but after MS enslavement they have to first learn how to learn again. Sorry. Flame me if you want to, but this is what I think and this is what I said and going to say again when needed.
Strange. I have used RH since release 4.2 and I would say that since 5.1 came out I would call it the easiest to install and maintain. SuSe is very close. SuSe is actually on the same level if not better if you switch from Yast to Linuxconf, and straiten your directory tree a little. Debian is good, I have to say that I even like dpkg better then rpm, but the dselect is SO UGLY. Also I am not sure if there is an admin utility in debian analogous to linuxconf. Caldera is really good, but slow to update and expensive. I am not going to even start about how ugly Slackware is.
Come on, world of adult people doesn't work like this. I don't think KDE people are in any way offended by RH's previous refusals to support them. There is nothing personal about it. It is just a business decision for both KDE and RH. As long as I undewrstand this correctly RH didn't support KDE because they thought that KDE was not compliant with their policies regarding the sodtware included in their distro. I have know idea if RH just bent their policies a little or have come to some form of agreement with Troll or KDE team, but apparently they found it possible to provide support to this project.
Strange. Are we talking about the same Star Office? Version 5.0 from Star Division? I wouldn't call it rudimentary. It has a full featured Word Processor and Spreadsheet and Datebase and Presentation maker and those all have their pluses and minuses but they are not rudimentary.
MS Office, Word in particular, IMHO, is THE best document editor around. I know, i know, someone will scream EMACS or Tex at me. I don't even wanna go there.
Come on guys. I agree that the text above is not as anti-MS as it is anti-Bill. I wonder, how many of you believe such things like freedom of speech, free buisness opportunity and things like that. If Bill has enough money to write ( or make somebody else write for him ) a book and publish it and have all the media sing glory and make advertizements and actually have a few people buy the damn thing, WHY THE HELL NOT! The guy (B.G.) is just trying to have some fun with his billions! If I had billions I would probably write a book too! After all it is a big-fish-eats-small-fish world out there and everybody is supposed to take as big a bite as he/she can get. One can blame MS for making ugly and buggy products, but one should congratulate BG for actually being able to make billions of dollars by selling ugly and buggy products:^) I mean is he a marketing genious or what? Oh, yeah right, an offensive marketing strategies, false advertizement, possible bribery etc. etc. etc. Well, as I said before, it is a rough owrld out there, and if it wasn't MS it would be somebody else. BTW all those big companies supporting linux? All of them are ex-giants who got tired of being second ( 3rd 4th etc. ) in the food chain. IBM? A monster. Compaq? A monster now-a-days, although them being a HW manufacturer I don't see why they are so eager. Corel? Guess what. Lotus? Oh! don't touch that 1-2-3 and Excel? ccMail and MSMail? Lotus suit vs. MS Office? you get the idea. If we think that doing good things ( like writing working software ) for free is good, lets just do it and not gripe about somebody else making a lot o money from bad software. After all free software does ( partially! ) means "no money". Where would we be now if Linus would just sit and think "He made so much money from that ugly system and I can write a really good system and nobody is gonna pay me for it!" instead of coding Linux kernel? Get a life, as people around here like to say, except by getting a life they usually mean go get drunk or laid or drugged or have fun some other esoteric way. I think that fixing a bug is much more about "life" than sitting and griping about Billies Billions. If you do not know which bug to fix, I would suggest downloading WINE and fixing that. It has so many FixMe markers that everybody can have one:)
See you all. For those of you who want to say "F.ck you!!!" to me for pro-MS posting see my signature:)
> As for their example, devout Muslims would be > deeply offended if you referred to their holy > scriptures as the "Mohammedan Bible".
I suppose you would be already dead ( about 5-10 seconds after you call those scriptures ( I think it is called Quaran, not sure of spelling though ) you will most probably find about a dozen ( or by the number of present muslims ) daggers in various parts of your body:) Islam is a very strict religion and it's followers are VERY religious and easily offended people:) )and therefore unable to apologize:)
Oh-oh... This is one of two things: 1. You are a Troll. In that case you are a fairly weak troll for I am the only one responding to this message. And also you should not say things like "I do not care what you say" in a troll message cause you will lose audience. Anyway you are a weak, stupid, senseless and ignorant troll. 2. You are serious. In that case you are trying to make a point by being rude, which is ridiculous, because, for example, me, after reading this message of yours, doesn't want to read either your more.html or TC's or RMS's articles to find out if you are right or wrong, because I am offended badly enough as it is. So, you do not generate any sane conversation or make a valuable argument in any case. Summary: You are a lousy stupid bastard/bitch ( see case #2) or you are a fcsking troll and therefore a moron ( see case #1 ).
OK forst things first. If developers make a release they know to be buggy, but so that people can test it and point those bugs out it is not called 1.0 it is called pre or beta. In my opinion the GNOME people have made it 1.0 too soon, I would say that this one should have been 1.0pre2 and there is still a good amount of things to be fixed to get a pre3 and pre4. Now when KDE 1.0 came out it was up to 1.0pre2 and pre2 at least had all the things that were supposed to work working and all the things that were not supposed to work removed. Let's take a look at Gnome 1.0 ( RPM install on a RH 5.2 system ). Gnome control center crashes each time I click on it too fast. Window manager tab doesn't work, Gnome edit properties only has one stupid drop box ( they could stick it somewhere else if that is all that is supposed to be there ) and a few more glitches like those annoying background conflicts between Gnome background and Enlightenment background. File manager just plain doesn't work, it is more like an alpha, not a production release. It freezes after any file operation, crashes if I try to switch directories too fast ( restarts though ) doesn't remember my preferences doesn't have enough options to customize it's behavior ( less than KDE now isn't that something ). Some other programs. GTOP crashes if you try to make it show something besides process list ( memory or FSs ). Enlightenment crashes without any aparent reason or when file manager is restarted too frequently. What else? A lot of things I guess, but I didn't have enough patience to play with them all. And by the way, it leaks memory so bad that after a few minutes it takes more memory then a fully blown KDE 1.1 session with Netscape and StarOffice 5.0 running together. I have been stupid enough to run my first session without logging out of root and I had to reboot my machine cause it took all the swap and all the memory an I couldn't even telnet into it cause it would time out waiting for telnetd to start.
The world as we know it is coming to an end. In the beginning of the 21st century a new age will begin. One of the characteristics of this new age will be change from collective to private spirituality. Which is what is happening and thereis not much we can do about it.:)
> "640k ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gates
AFAIK Gates never said this. This sentence was uttered by some chairman of IBM who was responsible for hardware limit of 640 KB of directly adressable memory. Again, AFAIK these words were said when he was asked if he thinks 640k limit will have the same fate as 64k limit did. As we all know 640k limit got to the same place but much faster due to accelerated speed of technical progress.
OK As far as I understand this statement in Sprint's contract basically means that they want to have somebody responsible for whatever part of the software fails. If they use GPLed softwre who are they gonna sue if they have some downtime. By having this statement in their contract they will sue the posters company who, by using GPLed software have broken the contract rules. They are just covering their asses this way. But bad part about it is that if they really want they can always back off from this contract because of this statement and there will always be something like a copy of running sendmail or bind.
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Yes, death and taxes. Although I am a law-abiding tax-paying citi.... naahhhh.... not yet, just permanent resident, I do not consider this hudge amount of money that is deducted from my every paycheck is supposed to be spent on something good for people. IMHO taxes is just the most expensive service you can buy in this world today. You - pay taxes, World - leave you alone. Think of an awful lot of heavily armed people ( sometimes refered to as army ) who do not come to take your money personally, think of all those cops who do not use their guns on you even though they could get away with it, think of public transportation that is still transporting... somebody... somewhere... :) This is what you pay your taxes for, so that all this huge basically uncontrolable and uncontroled structure of govermental organizations just lets you live your life in peace.
OK Let me tell you about myself. I started my career as network engineer from my CNE training school ( no I don't have a degree :) ). And my Netware 3.x skills are already outdated by at least 3-4 years :). But now I know enough about networking in general to quickly learn whatever is going to be the next buzzword technology in my field whether it is Linux, NT or any other. When ethernet switches appeared I took a manual and now I know this technology. If some strange and mysterious new shit comes out tomorrow, I will figure it out just the same. I always do, why should anything that can be expected be different? This what is nice about being a geek :)))
Hello everyone, I will ( as usual ) ramble a little bit.
:) ) keep their software closed, the only thing we can do is complain to them or everybody about how ugly and slow and buggy it is. If it was open source it is a different buiseness, is it ugly? OK let's do some coding and fix it. We can come up with a better version and MS ( if they agree that it is better ) can incorporate it into the main release. And everybody is happy.
Most of the posts that I have seen about dangers of commercialization of linux are IMHO missing a very important point. Open Source is not about Linux. Linux is just one of a few Open Source operating systems however much we like it. Linux kernel is GPL'd and therefore cannot be made proprietory by anyone or anything. The so called "dangers" that people are talking about basically all come down to the fear that commercialization will kill the spirit of the "Linux community". But "Linux community" is basically just a very big and friendly user group around a particular OS, while "Open Source community" is a world wide organisation of people who love what they do and are ready to share the products of their labour with anyone who might like it. Yes, I think that if/when Linux goes to a full commercial scale we will see that some true patriots of Open Source and/or Free Software will turn away from Linux and maybe Linux community will change a lot like the Internet community has changed after it became what it is now. But I also think that commercializing an open source GPL's OS is a really big step for ( let's not be scared of big words ) Humanity and Civilization as a whole. I think that if/when Linux goes full-scale it will start a new era of economic relations.
Just imagine this for a second that when Microsoft came out with Windows95 it made it open source from the beginning. What would happen? As MS ( and all the rest of them squares
I hope that commercial linux is a door in this direction. It is a step to the times when people will actually do things for the good of the community ( and community is basically just other people isn't it ) instead of personal profit. Getting back to the situation at hand, linux is going commercial and probably in near future we will see some linux distros which are full of proprietory stuff and a lot of proprietory software. But isn't this a good test of what Open Source community is good for? If some corporative shmucks can make software better then we do than it means that we are just not as good as we think we are. If some Big Bad company makes a linux distro with their own DE, then one of two things. Nobody is gonna use it and use KDE/Gnome instead or it is better then KDE and Gnome. As long as I understand, one cannot make Linux proprietory enough for us not to be able to run any software we like on it. And after all. Linux is just a small ( although very significant ) part of The Movement. If Linux should make one more step to better times and die on the way, we should not grieve, but get back to coding and debugging and testing and documenting and all the stuff and then the rise of the next star of Open Source will rise and shine and move us one more step to the big Future.
Live long and Prosper.
>
Ooooooooohhhhhhh!!! Those stupid, close-minded, ignorant U**X veterans. I hate you, hate you, hate you. Every time I hear something like "GUI is for newbies only" or "if you have emacs you do not need anything else" or "if they do not know how to rewire the CPU socket to make 2 Celerons run on a SMP motherboard, they are just dumb users and should be ignored" I get very close to being torn to parts by accumulating anger and frustration. Why do you guys think that everybody who doesn't want to know anything about computers is stupid? Why don't you RTFM on your psychology manual. maybe it is not the users who are stupid not to be able to use your OS, but your OS is too stupid to understand what actual users ( hard-core fans excluded ) want from it.
>
Now that some steam is out, let's talk real things. I understand that it is always insulting when after you have climbed a few mountains, crossed rivers and swamps, forced your way through other dangerous terrains and finaly got to the point where you can rest and felt so proud of yourself for getting here, someone have built a nice highway and everybody is getting here in air-conditioned limos and walk the same ground without even getting soles of their showes dirty. This is where all this nonsence about "good old times" is coming from. Old timers who have got they grey hairs from wading undocumented peices of source code just to make their system do something do not like it when people stick a CD in, boot, answer a few questions and get a nice GUI with everything if not completely usable than at least pretending to be working. Being unable to make the old problems to live again they say that whoever didn't take part in them cannot appreciate whatever is going on now. It is like an old bum trying to teach a yuppie to appreciate sleeping in subway because it is much warmer then in the street. Let's get even more particular. In case of Linux and Joe users I find it very good when a Joe/Jane user actually hears about Linux and attempts to install it on his/her computer. OS installation is a big step for a non-techie person and an attempt should be regarded with respect. So when a newbie is writing to a news group or calls tech support and says "Hello, I bought my linux CD and it asks me to partition my disk, what do I do?" IMHO he should get an answer like "Hey man, welcome to the party. If you have your manual take a look at the installation chapter or go to such and such web site and read this and this. If you have any other problems call/post them here." instead of "RTFM you stupid loser". As a Linux fan and an IT professional I have found that in many cases Linux ( and I do not mean Slackware ) is much easier to install than Win95/98. I did A LOT of installs of both and I have to say that my RH 5.2 is working as a charm and I still cannot configure half of my hardware in Win95 on my home system. I agree that CLI is much more powerful and fast than GUI interfaces in most of the cases, but CLI is a resort of a power user, and a clueless user should have a place to learn to become a power user. If you tell Joe user that he has to read a 500+ pages manual before he even dares to touch his Linux CD he is going to get insulted and quite rightfuly so, for he just want to use his system and not to become a tech-wizard. Learning is required, but system should help you to learn, not discourage you. I believe that if GUI is done as it should be done ( and I do not mean MS products ) it will be exactly as powerful as that particular CLI program that it interfaces with like if we have a GUI 'tar' it should have as many different options as a regular 'tar' maybe even more for GUI version and CLI version require a little different set of functionality. Surely a person who have mastered CLI will be more productive using pipes and redirs and flow control etc etc etc. But I think that user should be able to use his/her system before he masters CLI. Many people in Linux community are saying that Linux OS is about choices. Choice of Linux vs other OSs, choice of GUI vs. CLI, KDE vs. GNOME, XFree86 vs. commercial X servers, GCC vs EGCS etc etc etc. I think I have been rambling enough to get my points through to at least somebody out there. Don't close your mind from users only because they don't know and don't know how to find out. They will learn, but after MS enslavement they have to first learn how to learn again. Sorry. Flame me if you want to, but this is what I think and this is what I said and going to say again when needed.
Ooooooooohhhhhhh!!! Those stupid, close-minded, ignorant U**X veterans. I hate you, hate you, hate you. Every time I hear something like "GUI is for newbies only" or "if you have emacs you do not need anything else" or "if they do not know how to rewire the CPU socket to make 2 Celerons run on a SMP motherboard, they are just dumb users and should be ignored" I get very close to being torn to parts by accumulating anger and frustration. Why do you guys think that everybody who doesn't want to know anything about computers is stupid? Why don't you RTFM on your psychology manual. maybe it is not the users who are stupid not to be able to use your OS, but your OS is too stupid to understand what actual users ( hard-core fans excluded ) want from it.
Now that some steam is out, let's talk real things. I understand that it is always insulting when after you have climbed a few mountains, crossed rivers and swamps, forced your way through other dangerous terrains and finaly got to the point where you can rest and felt so proud of yourself for getting here, someone have built a nice highway and everybody is getting here in air-conditioned limos and walk the same ground without even getting soles of their showes dirty. This is where all this nonsence about "good old times" is coming from. Old timers who have got they grey hairs from wading undocumented peices of source code just to make their system do something do not like it when people stick a CD in, boot, answer a few questions and get a nice GUI with everything if not completely usable than at least pretending to be working. Being unable to make the old problems to live again they say that whoever didn't take part in them cannot appreciate whatever is going on now. It is like an old bum trying to teach a yuppie to appreciate sleeping in subway because it is much warmer then in the street. Let's get even more particular. In case of Linux and Joe users I find it very good when a Joe/Jane user actually hears about Linux and attempts to install it on his/her computer. OS installation is a big step for a non-techie person and an attempt should be regarded with respect. So when a newbie is writing to a news group or calls tech support and says "Hello, I bought my linux CD and it asks me to partition my disk, what do I do?" IMHO he should get an answer like "Hey man, welcome to the party. If you have your manual take a look at the installation chapter or go to such and such web site and read this and this. If you have any other problems call/post them here." instead of "RTFM you stupid loser". As a Linux fan and an IT professional I have found that in many cases Linux ( and I do not mean Slackware ) is much easier to install than Win95/98. I did A LOT of installs of both and I have to say that my RH 5.2 is working as a charm and I still cannot configure half of my hardware in Win95 on my home system. I agree that CLI is much more powerful and fast than GUI interfaces in most of the cases, but CLI is a resort of a power user, and a clueless user should have a place to learn to become a power user. If you tell Joe user that he has to read a 500+ pages manual before he even dares to touch his Linux CD he is going to get insulted and quite rightfuly so, for he just want to use his system and not to become a tech-wizard. Learning is required, but system should help you to learn, not discourage you. I believe that if GUI is done as it should be done ( and I do not mean MS products ) it will be exactly as powerful as that particular CLI program that it interfaces with like if we have a GUI 'tar' it should have as many different options as a regular 'tar' maybe even more for GUI version and CLI version require a little different set of functionality. Surely a person who have mastered CLI will be more productive using pipes and redirs and flow control etc etc etc. But I think that user should be able to use his/her system before he masters CLI. Many people in Linux community are saying that Linux OS is about choices. Choice of Linux vs other OSs, choice of GUI vs. CLI, KDE vs. GNOME, XFree86 vs. commercial X servers, GCC vs EGCS etc etc etc. I think I have been rambling enough to get my points through to at least somebody out there. Don't close your mind from users only because they don't know and don't know how to find out. They will learn, but after MS enslavement they have to first learn how to learn again. Sorry. Flame me if you want to, but this is what I think and this is what I said and going to say again when needed.
Sometimes there are just too many of them, or they get too loud.
Install Debian. It is a decent distro. Tinker with it for a while. Go ftp.kde.org and get .deb packages. Install Enjoy :)
Strange. I have used RH since release 4.2 and I would say that since 5.1 came out I would call it the easiest to install and maintain. SuSe is very close. SuSe is actually on the same level if not better if you switch from Yast to Linuxconf, and straiten your directory tree a little. Debian is good, I have to say that I even like dpkg better then rpm, but the dselect is SO UGLY. Also I am not sure if there is an admin utility in debian analogous to linuxconf. Caldera is really good, but slow to update and expensive. I am not going to even start about how ugly Slackware is.
Come on, world of adult people doesn't work like this. I don't think KDE people are in any way offended by RH's previous refusals to support them. There is nothing personal about it. It is just a business decision for both KDE and RH. As long as I undewrstand this correctly RH didn't support KDE because they thought that KDE was not compliant with their policies regarding the sodtware included in their distro. I have know idea if RH just bent their policies a little or have come to some form of agreement with Troll or KDE team, but apparently they found it possible to provide support to this project.
Strange. Are we talking about the same Star Office? Version 5.0 from Star Division? I wouldn't call it rudimentary. It has a full featured Word Processor and Spreadsheet and Datebase and Presentation maker and those all have their pluses and minuses but they are not rudimentary.
MS Office, Word in particular, IMHO, is THE best document editor around. I know, i know, someone will scream EMACS or Tex at me. I don't even wanna go there.
Come on guys. I agree that the text above is not as anti-MS as it is anti-Bill. I wonder, how many of you believe such things like freedom of speech, free buisness opportunity and things like that. If Bill has enough money to write ( or make somebody else write for him ) a book and publish it and have all the media sing glory and make advertizements and actually have a few people buy the damn thing, WHY THE HELL NOT! The guy (B.G.) is just trying to have some fun with his billions! If I had billions I would probably write a book too! After all it is a big-fish-eats-small-fish world out there and everybody is supposed to take as big a bite as he/she can get. One can blame MS for making ugly and buggy products, but one should congratulate BG for actually being able to make billions of dollars by selling ugly and buggy products :^) I mean is he a marketing genious or what? Oh, yeah right, an offensive marketing strategies, false advertizement, possible bribery etc. etc. etc. Well, as I said before, it is a rough owrld out there, and if it wasn't MS it would be somebody else. BTW all those big companies supporting linux? All of them are ex-giants who got tired of being second ( 3rd 4th etc. ) in the food chain. IBM? A monster. Compaq? A monster now-a-days, although them being a HW manufacturer I don't see why they are so eager. Corel? Guess what. Lotus? Oh! don't touch that 1-2-3 and Excel? ccMail and MSMail? Lotus suit vs. MS Office? you get the idea. If we think that doing good things ( like writing working software ) for free is good, lets just do it and not gripe about somebody else making a lot o money from bad software. After all free software does ( partially! ) means "no money". Where would we be now if Linus would just sit and think "He made so much money from that ugly system and I can write a really good system and nobody is gonna pay me for it!" instead of coding Linux kernel? Get a life, as people around here like to say, except by getting a life they usually mean go get drunk or laid or drugged or have fun some other esoteric way. I think that fixing a bug is much more about "life" than sitting and griping about Billies Billions. If you do not know which bug to fix, I would suggest downloading WINE and fixing that. It has so many FixMe markers that everybody can have one :)
:)
See you all. For those of you who want to say "F.ck you!!!" to me for pro-MS posting see my signature
> As for their example, devout Muslims would be
:) Islam is a very strict religion and it's followers are VERY religious and easily offended people :) )and therefore unable to apologize :)
> deeply offended if you referred to their holy
> scriptures as the "Mohammedan Bible".
I suppose you would be already dead ( about 5-10 seconds after you call those scriptures ( I think it is called Quaran, not sure of spelling though ) you will most probably find about a dozen ( or by the number of present muslims ) daggers in various parts of your body
How do you like my signature? It doesn't have MS in it, though I did steal it from another /. user :)
Whatever server OS or Web server they run it still doesn't work good enough to withstand the /. effect :)
Oh-oh...
This is one of two things:
1. You are a Troll. In that case you are a fairly weak troll for I am the only one responding to this message. And also you should not say things like "I do not care what you say" in a troll message cause you will lose audience. Anyway you are a weak, stupid, senseless and ignorant troll.
2. You are serious. In that case you are trying to make a point by being rude, which is ridiculous, because, for example, me, after reading this message of yours, doesn't want to read either your more.html or TC's or RMS's articles to find out if you are right or wrong, because I am offended badly enough as it is. So, you do not generate any sane conversation or make a valuable argument in any case.
Summary:
You are a lousy stupid bastard/bitch ( see case #2)
or you are a fcsking troll and therefore a moron ( see case #1 ).
So, just shut the FCSK up!
The site is slashdotted to hell. Gotta wait :( /. test box.
BTW I completely agree that it is gonna be a real crash test to put this movie on that
They also do not contain any character or paragraph formating.
If the software doesn't work without recompilation it is not a production quality software, it is at best a beta release.
1.0 is NOT supposed to be a development release. Still it uses a version of GTK+ that breaks half dependencies on my RH 5.2 system.
P.S. Oh yeah I forgot to mention that it also doesn't work
OK forst things first. If developers make a release they know to be buggy, but so that people can test it and point those bugs out it is not called 1.0 it is called pre or beta. In my opinion the GNOME people have made it 1.0 too soon, I would say that this one should have been 1.0pre2 and there is still a good amount of things to be fixed to get a pre3 and pre4. Now when KDE 1.0 came out it was up to 1.0pre2 and pre2 at least had all the things that were supposed to work working and all the things that were not supposed to work removed. Let's take a look at Gnome 1.0 ( RPM install on a RH 5.2 system ). Gnome control center crashes each time I click on it too fast. Window manager tab doesn't work, Gnome edit properties only has one stupid drop box ( they could stick it somewhere else if that is all that is supposed to be there ) and a few more glitches like those annoying background conflicts between Gnome background and Enlightenment background. File manager just plain doesn't work, it is more like an alpha, not a production release. It freezes after any file operation, crashes if I try to switch directories too fast ( restarts though ) doesn't remember my preferences doesn't have enough options to customize it's behavior ( less than KDE now isn't that something ). Some other programs. GTOP crashes if you try to make it show something besides process list ( memory or FSs ). Enlightenment crashes without any aparent reason or when file manager is restarted too frequently. What else? A lot of things I guess, but I didn't have enough patience to play with them all. And by the way, it leaks memory so bad that after a few minutes it takes more memory then a fully blown KDE 1.1 session with Netscape and StarOffice 5.0 running together. I have been stupid enough to run my first session without logging out of root and I had to reboot my machine cause it took all the swap and all the memory an I couldn't even telnet into it cause it would time out waiting for telnetd to start.
Talk to me about usability.
The world as we know it is coming to an end. In the beginning of the 21st century a new age will begin. One of the characteristics of this new age will be change from collective to private spirituality. Which is what is happening and thereis not much we can do about it. :)
> "640k ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gates
AFAIK Gates never said this. This sentence was uttered by some chairman of IBM who was responsible for hardware limit of 640 KB of directly adressable memory. Again, AFAIK these words were said when he was asked if he thinks 640k limit will have the same fate as 64k limit did. As we all know 640k limit got to the same place but much faster due to accelerated speed of technical progress.
My last personal record is 6 hours straight with intervals under 15 minutes between spasms. I wouldn't want to repeat that experience though :)
1 Litre of tequila plus some cogniac and vodka do that to a man.
OK As far as I understand this statement in Sprint's contract basically means that they want to have somebody responsible for whatever part of the software fails. If they use GPLed softwre who are they gonna sue if they have some downtime. By having this statement in their contract they will sue the posters company who, by using GPLed software have broken the contract rules. They are just covering their asses this way. But bad part about it is that if they really want they can always back off from this contract because of this statement and there will always be something like a copy of running sendmail or bind.