Hmm, on my screen that looks like a smiley with a bad toupee. Would that be the Marv Alberticon, or the Bill Shatnericon? Or would it be a Ted Koppelicon, being quite obvious about it being there, but insisting it's not a pound symbol on your head and just having a bad haircut for years?
Re:The last of the V8 Interceptors
on
New Mad Max Film
·
· Score: 2
Most superchargers are always on, though I guess it wouldn't be too hard to get a clutch assembly on one. You can counteract detonation some by using higher octane gas. This is the whole "premium gasoline for cars that benefit from premium" thing. All modern engines have knock sensors and if you give it cheap gas, they'll knock a bit, the engine will retard ignition some (until after full compression) so you won't knock but performace will suffer. Give it premium gas and it won't have to compromise like that. The downside is cost - race gas is 104, 105 octane, but costs $3 or $4 per gallon in the US, about double normal prices. Honda got creative with the rules a few years back and had some effectively 120 octane fuel in their F1 cars, I don't want to know what that was per gallon.
You can also strap on an intercooler (a.k.a. intake charge cooler) which cools the air coming into the engine. It gets heated up under compression (your old friend PV = nRT) and this leads to detonation. An intercooler can cool it down some to avoid this a bit, you can be a bit more aggressive on your compression ratios.
I know this is just a fluff piece, but it left me with some questions:
IP. Does Gateway get a cut?
Security - source code. I've got this app that's kinda secret, I'm not sure if I want to get you the source code. *
Security - net, evil customers. All these guys are gonna have to get data units and deposit done units someplace. Most places I know, floor models aren't hooked up to the net. Now they will be, the security of those floor models are going to need to be changed.
Security - net, evil hackers. Someone already said about being a huge DDoS systerm.
Downtime - Will Gateway guarantee QOS when the machines are "administered" by salespeople?
The item marked * above can be simply answered "Well don't use it if you're worried". The IP issues may be the sticking point.
There are some ego questions, Theo used to work on NetBSD. As smart as he is, and productive as he is, they found him abrasive and let him go. He hasn't changed much, and isn't likely to, and the world's a better place for having OpenBSD. From what I understand FreeBSD and NetBSD forked around the same time from the original BSD code, and 386/BSD. 386/BSD was kind of showing its rough edges, and people wnated to clean it up. FreeBSD went the x86 route, NetBSD always tried to be multiplatform.
That said, there is a lot of code sharing. The USB core is exactly the same in both Net and Free, probably OpenBSD as well. systrace was originally slated for NetBSD, ended up in Open. 5.0 is getting a new/etc/rc startup, pioneered in NetBSD. A lot of the userland is the same, and there's some action on getting a standard ports system.
In some respects, there's more sharing in BSD than in some of the Linux distros. Since all the owners of the BSDs are essentially non-commercial, there's no real incentive to make proprietary stuff. In some situations, the BSD license is easier to share stuff, but it really doesn't in this case - if they were all GPL they could share things.
I understand what you're saying, that it diverts attention and resources. But you also have to realize they pick up thing as well. There's some cross pollination. I believe the SMP stuff is kind of taken from BSDi, if not the actual code then at least the general idea.
The other thing is "one-size fits all" gives you a huge XXXXL product. If all the things went into just one or the other, it would be pretty bloated. The focus of FreeBSD (optimized for Intel) is in respects incompatible with NetBSD (ultra-portability). Ask anyone who's worked on gcc about the problems of optimizing portable code.
I don't think there's anything stopping you from still using the older code. From what I hear, there's stil the occasional update to the 2.x series still. FreeBSD 3.5.1 is still available from the ftp server. It's not a dead codebase, and nothing stopping you from using it. Granted, none of the new features will be in there, but there will always be a features/space trade-off.
Thanks. Looks like they have a month of slippage on 5.0, so Jan maybe. With normal last second bug fixes, maybe end of Jan. No estimate on 5.1 though, sucks.
They had to sign an NDA, and they want to respect it. I don't blame them, since they don't want to burn any bridges at Sun. They may need things in the future.
Stuff's pretty random, even in big organizations. Ask the Samba guys about MS protocols, and they'll tell you that its pretty much a steaming pile. Disorganized. I can see why this stuff would be disorganized internally. Bob's got this here, in PDF, Joe's got this part in Word, Jennifer has this LaTeX stuff. Have to get it all together, filter it, and run it by the lawyers. I'm not implying this will cost millions, but the cost is not zero either.
Theo is a genius, has done more for computing than I ever hope to. But he is arrogant. Sometimes that might help - he was so mad at NetBSD he went off and formed OpenBSD, and the world's a better place. Didn't like the old firewall license, and he gets a new one, one thats even better. Thing is in those cases he had options - if they don't like me playing here I'll make my own gym. But he doens't have options with Sun - if he pisses them off, there's no OpenSPARC org he can talk to. This is probably a time that being arrogant hurt him.
Even with expenses of zero, there's still the NDA part. Theo doens't want to sign an NDA, which the Linux guys are happy to do. Theo then complains about how they get stuff he doens't. Ummm....
Don't buy undocumented hardware. Hmm, Theo is, and then complaining about it.
OK, I'm karma capped, lets some good ol' flaming start...
Theo de Raadt: (calls up Sun) Hello, I demand some documentation. Sun Guy: Who the f*** are you? TdR: I'm Theo de Raadt. SG: Which Theo de Raadt? TdR: The one that is incredibly smart and productive and gets real pissy when I don't get my way; the one that forked OpenBSD because the NetBSD folks didn't like how pissy I got and drove users away. SG: Oh that one. What documentation do you demand because you somehow infer a right to having? TdR: On the UltraSparc III processor. SG: Oh, the one that you spent no R & D money on, that you spent no manufacturing money on, but you feel you have an absolute right to have it and if you don't get it you get pissy? TdR: Yeah, thats the one. SG: OK, here is our link. TdR: This isn't enough. I want more. SG: What other documentation are you demanding? TdR: I don't know. It is your job to figure out what documentation I don't have and to get it to me when I demand it. SG: If you don't even know what to ask for, how are you demanding more? TdR: Those other guys get more. SG: Which guys? TdR: The Linux guys. SG: You mean the ones that we kind of work with because we have an Intel distro and we should really appease the guys that kind of put it together? The OS that we might try to sell some software on? TdR: Yeah, I want what they have. I deserve it. SG: Why? TdR: Because I want it to make a server. SG: Using what OS? TdR: A free one, that will put no money in your pocket for OS licenses, no money for support, that will most likely not sell any Sun software because it usually runs as a fairly stripped down firewall box, and won't even sell any of your real expensive hardware where you make the real money from since we don't support SMP. Since you lost a lot of money when the dot-com bubble burst, and your stock is now close to historic lows and have had a couple rounds of layoffs, you must be real enthused about doing some work which probably won't get your company any money at all? SG: Ahh, so you demand we get some internal engineers for you who luckily will be really eager to stop their real work fending off fierce competition from IBM Windows HP and Linux, gather all our UltraSparc-III stuff for you, run it through our lawyers who luckily enough will drop all work involving our lawsuits about Microsoft and Java (and possible shareholder and wrongful termination lawsuits) sanitize it for you because from your reputation for getting pissy over things (witness ipf) you won't take kindly to an NDA and rush it to you on your schedule not ours. TdR: If you don't, I'll get pissy. Yes, and make sure you get that NDA stuff out. We're opensource, and we don't like NDAs, and since we're always right your NDAs should go away because we say so.
I know why Theo would want this, but I can't see the Sun guys dropping everything and making this their number one priority. Though childish, if I was a Sun person, I'd release this stuff first to FreeBSD and NetBSD, knowing it would eventually trickle down to OpenBSD, just to piss off Theo.
OK, I'm karma capped, lets some good ol' flaming start...
Theo de Raadt: (calls up Sun) Hello, I demand some documentation. Sun Guy: Who the f*** are you? TdR: I'm Theo de Raadt. SG: Which Theo de Raadt? TdR: The one that is incredibly smart and productive and gets real pissy when I don't get my way; the one that forked OpenBSD because the NetBSD folks didn't like how pissy I got and drove users away. SG: Oh that one. What documentation do you demand because you somehow infer a right to having? TdR: On the UltraSparc III processor. SG: Oh, the one that you spent no R & D money on, that you spent no manufacturing money on, but you feel you have an absolute right to have it and if you don't get it you get pissy? TdR: Yeah, thats the one. SG: OK, here is our link. TdR: This isn't enough. I want more. SG: What other documentation are you demanding? TdR: I don't know. It is your job to figure out what documentation I don't have and to get it to me when I demand it. SG: If you don't even know what to ask for, how are you demanding more? TdR: Those other guys get more. SG: Which guys? TdR: The Linux guys. SG: You mean the ones that we kind of work with because we have an Intel distro and we should really appease the guys that kind of put it together? TdR: Yeah, I want what they have. I deserve it. SG: Why? TdR: Because I want it to make a server. SG: Using what OS? TdR: A free one, that will put no money in your pocket for OS licenses, no money for support, that will most likely not sell any Sun software because it usually runs as a fairly stripped down firewall box, and won't even sell any of your real expensive hardware where you make the real money from since we don't support SMP. Since you lost a lot of money when the dot-com bubble burst, and your stock is now close to historic lows and have had a couple rounds of layoffs, you must be real enthused about doing some work which probably won't get your company any money at all? SG: Ahh, so you demand we get some internal engineers for you who luckily will be really eager to stop their real work fending off fierce competition from IBM Windows HP and Linux, gather all our UltraSparc-III stuff for you, run it through our lawyers who luckily enough will drop all work involving our lawsuits about Microsoft and Java (and possible shareholder and wrongful termination lawsuits) sanitize it for you because from your reputation for getting pissy over things (witness ipf) you won't take kindly to an NDA and rush it to you on your schedule not ours. TdR: If you don't, I'll get pissy. Yes, and make sure you get that NDA stuff out. We're opensource, and we don't like NDAs, and since we're always right your NDAs should go away because we say so.
I know why Theo would want this, but I can't see the Sun guys dropping everything and making this their number one priority. Though childish, if I was a Sun person, I'd release this stuff first to FreeBSD and NetBSD, knowing it would eventually trickle down to OpenBSD, just to piss off Theo.
Windows 3.51 ran on Alpha, Mips, and PowerPC. 4.0 was restricted to Alpha only, then some service pack took even this away. Even though it doesn't run on anything but IA32, I doubt if the code is real "64-bit impure" now, and they probably already have had x86-64 and Ittanium teams chugging along for a while now. Most of the free UNIXes (Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD) have Alpha support, which is another 64-bit Little Endian chip, so it shouldn't be too hard of an shift to x86-64. NetBSD already has the OS up and running on an x86-64 simulator.
If you want to say "an OS optimized for 64 bit" and applications that scream with 64 bit chips, then I'd say "ahh, there's the rub." It will take folks to move to 64 bit, just as it took folks to move from the relatively dirty 16-bit "selector plus offset" addressing of Intel 16 bit code to the cleaner flat addressing model of 32 bits. but you need the chips out there for people to play with and get real applications for.
I thought it was reaching too much. I mean Sam Neil, in year 21whatever, using a straight razor to shave his neck? Gee, and he just happens to have a hallucinatory dream where he slices his own throat. Hmm, what are the odds? I guess Norelco, Remington, Gillete and Bic don't make it in the future. And what was that meat grinder masquerading as part of the ship? Gee, how convenient that a part of the ship would seem so scary.
The whole thing, to me, just seemed to be this lame set up. Items strewn about more to be scary gimmicks than to make any type of sense whatsoever. Didn't scare me personally, mostly because I was looking at the exits instead of the film. I'm glad you had fun with it, you got more out of your cash than I did.
Slashdot Mirror
UK-Smiley (ironicon) £:-)
Hmm, on my screen that looks like a smiley with a bad toupee. Would that be the Marv Alberticon, or the Bill Shatnericon? Or would it be a Ted Koppelicon, being quite obvious about it being there, but insisting it's not a pound symbol on your head and just having a bad haircut for years?
Most superchargers are always on, though I guess it wouldn't be too hard to get a clutch assembly on one. You can counteract detonation some by using higher octane gas. This is the whole "premium gasoline for cars that benefit from premium" thing. All modern engines have knock sensors and if you give it cheap gas, they'll knock a bit, the engine will retard ignition some (until after full compression) so you won't knock but performace will suffer. Give it premium gas and it won't have to compromise like that. The downside is cost - race gas is 104, 105 octane, but costs $3 or $4 per gallon in the US, about double normal prices. Honda got creative with the rules a few years back and had some effectively 120 octane fuel in their F1 cars, I don't want to know what that was per gallon.
You can also strap on an intercooler (a.k.a. intake charge cooler) which cools the air coming into the engine. It gets heated up under compression (your old friend PV = nRT) and this leads to detonation. An intercooler can cool it down some to avoid this a bit, you can be a bit more aggressive on your compression ratios.
NSA: No Such Agency
The item marked * above can be simply answered "Well don't use it if you're worried". The IP issues may be the sticking point.
head -1 /dev/urandom | cut -b -120 > ~/.sig
your sig wastes a process...
dd if=/dev/urandom of=$HOME/.sig -bs=120 -count=1
Hmm, is your sig opensource? Hmm, I may have that to license that as LGPL...
There are some ego questions, Theo used to work on NetBSD. As smart as he is, and productive as he is, they found him abrasive and let him go. He hasn't changed much, and isn't likely to, and the world's a better place for having OpenBSD. From what I understand FreeBSD and NetBSD forked around the same time from the original BSD code, and 386/BSD. 386/BSD was kind of showing its rough edges, and people wnated to clean it up. FreeBSD went the x86 route, NetBSD always tried to be multiplatform.
/etc/rc startup, pioneered in NetBSD. A lot of the userland is the same, and there's some action on getting a standard ports system.
That said, there is a lot of code sharing. The USB core is exactly the same in both Net and Free, probably OpenBSD as well. systrace was originally slated for NetBSD, ended up in Open. 5.0 is getting a new
In some respects, there's more sharing in BSD than in some of the Linux distros. Since all the owners of the BSDs are essentially non-commercial, there's no real incentive to make proprietary stuff. In some situations, the BSD license is easier to share stuff, but it really doesn't in this case - if they were all GPL they could share things.
I understand what you're saying, that it diverts attention and resources. But you also have to realize they pick up thing as well. There's some cross pollination. I believe the SMP stuff is kind of taken from BSDi, if not the actual code then at least the general idea.
The other thing is "one-size fits all" gives you a huge XXXXL product. If all the things went into just one or the other, it would be pretty bloated. The focus of FreeBSD (optimized for Intel) is in respects incompatible with NetBSD (ultra-portability). Ask anyone who's worked on gcc about the problems of optimizing portable code.
Hmm, I didn't know Oppenheimer was deaf
I was thinking of "Crazy" Joe Clark from Lean On Me. I think he's doing security work now.
My mistake, 3.5 is not officially supported, 3.5 is in maintenance mode, but still available.
I don't think there's anything stopping you from still using the older code. From what I hear, there's stil the occasional update to the 2.x series still. FreeBSD 3.5.1 is still available from the ftp server. It's not a dead codebase, and nothing stopping you from using it. Granted, none of the new features will be in there, but there will always be a features/space trade-off.
You can get the schedule here
Thanks. Looks like they have a month of slippage on 5.0, so Jan maybe. With normal last second bug fixes, maybe end of Jan. No estimate on 5.1 though, sucks.
Is there a release roadmap, guessing when 5.0 final and 5.1 will come out? I haven't seen it on the FreeBSD site.
Hmm, me curious, what was this blunder, what word was it?
Notice he said "Purify for Windows". Valgrind is Linux only,.
MS-DOS -- no remote root exploit in 27 years against an UNPATCHED system.
Abacus, no remote root exploit in 800 years against an upatched system.
And should the exodus of VC's from Silicon Valley count as ex-migration of humans or of vampires?
I almost never use them, but sometimes I hate not having mod points...
I was a dot-com burnout.
Golden Rule
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Leaded Rule
Pretend every mutha has a gun and you really don't want to piss them off.
They had to sign an NDA, and they want to respect it. I don't blame them, since they don't want to burn any bridges at Sun. They may need things in the future.
Stuff's pretty random, even in big organizations. Ask the Samba guys about MS protocols, and they'll tell you that its pretty much a steaming pile. Disorganized. I can see why this stuff would be disorganized internally. Bob's got this here, in PDF, Joe's got this part in Word, Jennifer has this LaTeX stuff. Have to get it all together, filter it, and run it by the lawyers. I'm not implying this will cost millions, but the cost is not zero either.
Theo is a genius, has done more for computing than I ever hope to. But he is arrogant. Sometimes that might help - he was so mad at NetBSD he went off and formed OpenBSD, and the world's a better place. Didn't like the old firewall license, and he gets a new one, one thats even better. Thing is in those cases he had options - if they don't like me playing here I'll make my own gym. But he doens't have options with Sun - if he pisses them off, there's no OpenSPARC org he can talk to. This is probably a time that being arrogant hurt him.
Even with expenses of zero, there's still the NDA part. Theo doens't want to sign an NDA, which the Linux guys are happy to do. Theo then complains about how they get stuff he doens't. Ummm....
Don't buy undocumented hardware.
Hmm, Theo is, and then complaining about it.
This story was posted in the BSD section, I wrote something there. Didn't start enough of a flame war, so I'll repost it. Before flaming, make sure you read the email thread.
OK, I'm karma capped, lets some good ol' flaming start...
Theo de Raadt: (calls up Sun) Hello, I demand some documentation.
Sun Guy: Who the f*** are you?
TdR: I'm Theo de Raadt.
SG: Which Theo de Raadt?
TdR: The one that is incredibly smart and productive and gets real pissy when I don't get my way; the one that forked OpenBSD because the NetBSD folks didn't like how pissy I got and drove users away.
SG: Oh that one. What documentation do you demand because you somehow infer a right to having?
TdR: On the UltraSparc III processor.
SG: Oh, the one that you spent no R & D money on, that you spent no manufacturing money on, but you feel you have an absolute right to have it and if you don't get it you get pissy?
TdR: Yeah, thats the one.
SG: OK, here is our link.
TdR: This isn't enough. I want more.
SG: What other documentation are you demanding?
TdR: I don't know. It is your job to figure out what documentation I don't have and to get it to me when I demand it.
SG: If you don't even know what to ask for, how are you demanding more?
TdR: Those other guys get more.
SG: Which guys?
TdR: The Linux guys.
SG: You mean the ones that we kind of work with because we have an Intel distro and we should really appease the guys that kind of put it together? The OS that we might try to sell some software on?
TdR: Yeah, I want what they have. I deserve it.
SG: Why?
TdR: Because I want it to make a server.
SG: Using what OS?
TdR: A free one, that will put no money in your pocket for OS licenses, no money for support, that will most likely not sell any Sun software because it usually runs as a fairly stripped down firewall box, and won't even sell any of your real expensive hardware where you make the real money from since we don't support SMP. Since you lost a lot of money when the dot-com bubble burst, and your stock is now close to historic lows and have had a couple rounds of layoffs, you must be real enthused about doing some work which probably won't get your company any money at all?
SG: Ahh, so you demand we get some internal engineers for you who luckily will be really eager to stop their real work fending off fierce competition from IBM Windows HP and Linux, gather all our UltraSparc-III stuff for you, run it through our lawyers who luckily enough will drop all work involving our lawsuits about Microsoft and Java (and possible shareholder and wrongful termination lawsuits) sanitize it for you because from your reputation for getting pissy over things (witness ipf) you won't take kindly to an NDA and rush it to you on your schedule not ours.
TdR: If you don't, I'll get pissy. Yes, and make sure you get that NDA stuff out. We're opensource, and we don't like NDAs, and since we're always right your NDAs should go away because we say so.
I know why Theo would want this, but I can't see the Sun guys dropping everything and making this their number one priority. Though childish, if I was a Sun person, I'd release this stuff first to FreeBSD and NetBSD, knowing it would eventually trickle down to OpenBSD, just to piss off Theo.
Check Bugzilla BugID 166442, comment 104 (no URL given to help keep a few casual Slash clickers off BugZilla).
Basically scrapped for 1.2 becuase they couldn't get it in right, on the plate again for 1.3.
OK, I'm karma capped, lets some good ol' flaming start...
Theo de Raadt: (calls up Sun) Hello, I demand some documentation.
Sun Guy: Who the f*** are you?
TdR: I'm Theo de Raadt.
SG: Which Theo de Raadt?
TdR: The one that is incredibly smart and productive and gets real pissy when I don't get my way; the one that forked OpenBSD because the NetBSD folks didn't like how pissy I got and drove users away.
SG: Oh that one. What documentation do you demand because you somehow infer a right to having?
TdR: On the UltraSparc III processor.
SG: Oh, the one that you spent no R & D money on, that you spent no manufacturing money on, but you feel you have an absolute right to have it and if you don't get it you get pissy?
TdR: Yeah, thats the one.
SG: OK, here is our link.
TdR: This isn't enough. I want more.
SG: What other documentation are you demanding?
TdR: I don't know. It is your job to figure out what documentation I don't have and to get it to me when I demand it.
SG: If you don't even know what to ask for, how are you demanding more?
TdR: Those other guys get more.
SG: Which guys?
TdR: The Linux guys.
SG: You mean the ones that we kind of work with because we have an Intel distro and we should really appease the guys that kind of put it together?
TdR: Yeah, I want what they have. I deserve it.
SG: Why?
TdR: Because I want it to make a server.
SG: Using what OS?
TdR: A free one, that will put no money in your pocket for OS licenses, no money for support, that will most likely not sell any Sun software because it usually runs as a fairly stripped down firewall box, and won't even sell any of your real expensive hardware where you make the real money from since we don't support SMP. Since you lost a lot of money when the dot-com bubble burst, and your stock is now close to historic lows and have had a couple rounds of layoffs, you must be real enthused about doing some work which probably won't get your company any money at all?
SG: Ahh, so you demand we get some internal engineers for you who luckily will be really eager to stop their real work fending off fierce competition from IBM Windows HP and Linux, gather all our UltraSparc-III stuff for you, run it through our lawyers who luckily enough will drop all work involving our lawsuits about Microsoft and Java (and possible shareholder and wrongful termination lawsuits) sanitize it for you because from your reputation for getting pissy over things (witness ipf) you won't take kindly to an NDA and rush it to you on your schedule not ours.
TdR: If you don't, I'll get pissy. Yes, and make sure you get that NDA stuff out. We're opensource, and we don't like NDAs, and since we're always right your NDAs should go away because we say so.
I know why Theo would want this, but I can't see the Sun guys dropping everything and making this their number one priority. Though childish, if I was a Sun person, I'd release this stuff first to FreeBSD and NetBSD, knowing it would eventually trickle down to OpenBSD, just to piss off Theo.
Kinda like a ... sewer system, but in reverse.
Thats an image I'd want to keep in mind, a reversed sewer system. Mmm, good.
Windows 3.51 ran on Alpha, Mips, and PowerPC. 4.0 was restricted to Alpha only, then some service pack took even this away. Even though it doesn't run on anything but IA32, I doubt if the code is real "64-bit impure" now, and they probably already have had x86-64 and Ittanium teams chugging along for a while now. Most of the free UNIXes (Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD) have Alpha support, which is another 64-bit Little Endian chip, so it shouldn't be too hard of an shift to x86-64. NetBSD already has the OS up and running on an x86-64 simulator.
If you want to say "an OS optimized for 64 bit" and applications that scream with 64 bit chips, then I'd say "ahh, there's the rub." It will take folks to move to 64 bit, just as it took folks to move from the relatively dirty 16-bit "selector plus offset" addressing of Intel 16 bit code to the cleaner flat addressing model of 32 bits. but you need the chips out there for people to play with and get real applications for.
I thought it was reaching too much. I mean Sam Neil, in year 21whatever, using a straight razor to shave his neck? Gee, and he just happens to have a hallucinatory dream where he slices his own throat. Hmm, what are the odds? I guess Norelco, Remington, Gillete and Bic don't make it in the future. And what was that meat grinder masquerading as part of the ship? Gee, how convenient that a part of the ship would seem so scary.
The whole thing, to me, just seemed to be this lame set up. Items strewn about more to be scary gimmicks than to make any type of sense whatsoever. Didn't scare me personally, mostly because I was looking at the exits instead of the film. I'm glad you had fun with it, you got more out of your cash than I did.