There's this dimension called time, you might have heard about it. There's a right time to do something and I was busy during that discussion. Yet, oddly, though unsurprising, no one asked me about my opinion.
Well what do you expect them to do? Get the contact details of all their users and ask them and wait until everybody has the time to respond?
Maybe you want to tell me why you're such a fan of SystemD
I'm not.
if not, why you're still trying to troll me, 'cause I honestly don't give a fuck about your parenting attempt on democracy.
Oh get off it, if you actually thought you were being trolled and had a shred of intelligence then you wouldn't even be replying, don't be an idiot.
This is not about me, it's about a piece of shit software that got pushed down everyone's throat.
It did not, there was a big, long, public discussion about it where some distros chose it and others didn't, you chose not to participate (and nobody cares why) so you go with their decision or you go someplace else.
So if you think you've got me on the defensive by trying to prove to me that all would have been different, if only I would have voiced my opinion during that "discussion", you're wrong.
No it's the desperation with which you're trying to argue against systemd when I'm not in opposition of your argument at all, I'm in opposition of your entitlist mentality where you think the distro developers should do whatever you want them to do. If you're not going to contribute then you are of no value to anybody else so stop acting like a spoiled child who's toy was taken away.
The decision was made somewhere else, and most people opposing this change have been banned.
Citation? I haven't seen anybody banned outside of those that are angry at themselves for their own inability to make a coherent argument and so instead resort to childish ad hominem attacks and foul language.
For the record I think the systemd methodology is more loss than gain so it's better to not have it but I'm not going to whine and bitch about it because I am not a distro developer, I don't contribute to the distro and I didn't contribute to the decision on it. So if I find it unappealing I'll switch to Slackware, Gentoo or a BSD, no big deal. How do you think they should have realistically approached this?
Linux is community developed and free. There is no reason whatsoever that the niche filled by ChromeOS could not be much better served by community development as well.
Well then why isn't it? I'm pretty sure there is a reason which is primarily lack of resources and interest. If community development resources for a project like this were sufficient and free then yes perhaps it could be, though given the infighting around things like gnome3, systemd, pulseaudio, Ubuntu Amazon search, etc... I can imagine getting it to go in one cohesive direction without splintering off into different projects is probably a challenge.
No, he's claiming that Flash CC is a malware creation kit.
And how does one create malware with it? Flash Player has a history of having security vulnerabilities that can be exploited to be used to deliver malware but the malware isn't the SWF files that run on it.
Pretty much everybody except Adobe knows Flash Player is a security threat and a vector for malware.
Yes but this article is all about using Flash CC for targets that are explicitly not Flash Player.
Would "introduction to programming" for high school juniors be among this 10%?
You don't need a machine running a compiler for "introduction to programming" when you have tools like http://js.do/ and http://cpp.sh/. No they don't do everything and no they don't need to for introduction to programming and it even has the appropriately-named "Developer Mode" so you can chroot on a ChromeOS system if you really want a local compiler for something.
Did anyone actually buy them intending to use ChromeOS?
Given that ChromeOS is "cloud-based" I would have thought it would be pretty easy to find out the usage stats on them, if they were indeed going gangbusters I would assume Google would be telling everybody about it rather than people just quoting Amazon sales.
This is a *LOT* different to Graffiti. Graffiti was based on simple gestures for inputting characters rather than character recognition, for example to put in an exclamation mark you didn't draw an exclamation mark, you had to know gesture for producing one, which was to draw a vertical line from top to bottom. That method is entirely unintuitive because you have to remember not what the character looks like but what the gesture for drawing it is.
Ok but where is your contribution, there were extensive debates in the mailing lists and various places online so where is your well-reasoned objection? I hope it wasn't just "LMFAO".
Suppose I prefer a Windows 7 workflow on my Windows machine. Unless I install something third-party, I don't get a nice Start Menu.
Right, they removed it so if you prefer it then install a 3rd party add on. But given that the start menu doesn't exist on other platforms anybody not totally indoctrinated in use of the start menu is not going to have much trouble. The question is why are these people claiming that Windows 8 is unusable on a site like this? (not that you're doing that) Given the solution to the problem is as easy as installing an addon, a replacement shell, adapting your workflow to something matching other platforms or developing your own start menu replacement?
This is the second time you've interjected into a discussion between myself and somebody else crying that you can't understand, yet you are the only person who cannot understand. The language is not complex which is why nobody else - including the people actually having the discussion - is having any trouble with it except you, repeatedly, so obviously it's your problem.
Of course, this is what it's all boiling down to, this group of people are forced to switch.
Yes that's true, but most Linux users won't even notice.
But this group of people is the one going to be laughing when SHTF with systemd and consorts, and certainly, at some point we won't give a fuck, but it's still a hassle and it's the community at large that suffers due to the segregation. Eventually, this "vocal minority" as some people call this group, is the one who's got the brains, apparently.
You say that but Arch, Core, Fedora, Mageia and openSUSE have been using it for years and RHEL recently did it's release as well, all the fear-mongering has amounted to pretty much zero of anything. Also FWIW here is the summary debate page for Debian's adoption of systemd and there's a bunch of linked documentation there as well.
Sorry, even $2300 isn't enough for a device of this complexity.
But when you can raise €100,000 with another €460,000 when you ship you can get a business loan to cover the ongoing costs. Not to mention it is already at Alpha stage and this is only to get it to Beta and from there commercial production.
And the team lacking any engineers or anyone with a verifiable experience in building projects of similar size?
Well the Alpha shows they have the ability to produce the product.
Then we misunderstood each other, because I don't give a shit about redhat. Haven't used them since 5.x-6.x and never looked back since.
Yes but Red Hat is one of the members of the GNOME foundation and Debian has a reliance on GNOME so in turn if Red Hat contributes its changes to GNOME then the Debian project has the choice to use a different DE (in the same way Slackware avoids systemd and uses KDE) or fork GNOME.
I was specifically talking about the over-the-community's-head decision in Debian, which so many other distros depend upon. It's basically a coup d'etat, IMHO.
That's up to the Debian contributors, if enough of them wanted the change then the change gets implemented, if the change was poor then users can switch to Slackware-derived options or Gentoo instead. Enough of them supported the change, most users won't notice, many who do notice don't object and a vocal minority do object. You can't force people to do what you want them to do, if you don't like it then don't use it and instead support Slackware or Gentoo.
Well then the problem is that the desktop Linux community has become reliant on a small group of entities that obviously act in their own interests. Now you can accept their contributions or reject them but you cannot tell them what to contribute, that is their choice not yours.
I'm not saying Metro is good, I'm saying that if you were to use say an OS X workflow you don't need to use it at all. Boot-to-desktop then you have all your OS X paradigms:
-Dock = Taskbar
-Spotlight = Search
-Desktop = Desktop
-Finder = Explorer ...and if you really want... -Launchpad = Start Screen
I *mostly* use Windows at work and *mostly* OS X at home and the workflow is the same on both.
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There's this dimension called time, you might have heard about it. There's a right time to do something and I was busy during that discussion. Yet, oddly, though unsurprising, no one asked me about my opinion.
Well what do you expect them to do? Get the contact details of all their users and ask them and wait until everybody has the time to respond?
Maybe you want to tell me why you're such a fan of SystemD
I'm not.
if not, why you're still trying to troll me, 'cause I honestly don't give a fuck about your parenting attempt on democracy.
Oh get off it, if you actually thought you were being trolled and had a shred of intelligence then you wouldn't even be replying, don't be an idiot.
This is not about me, it's about a piece of shit software that got pushed down everyone's throat.
It did not, there was a big, long, public discussion about it where some distros chose it and others didn't, you chose not to participate (and nobody cares why) so you go with their decision or you go someplace else.
So if you think you've got me on the defensive by trying to prove to me that all would have been different, if only I would have voiced my opinion during that "discussion", you're wrong.
No it's the desperation with which you're trying to argue against systemd when I'm not in opposition of your argument at all, I'm in opposition of your entitlist mentality where you think the distro developers should do whatever you want them to do. If you're not going to contribute then you are of no value to anybody else so stop acting like a spoiled child who's toy was taken away.
The decision was made somewhere else, and most people opposing this change have been banned.
Citation? I haven't seen anybody banned outside of those that are angry at themselves for their own inability to make a coherent argument and so instead resort to childish ad hominem attacks and foul language.
For the record I think the systemd methodology is more loss than gain so it's better to not have it but I'm not going to whine and bitch about it because I am not a distro developer, I don't contribute to the distro and I didn't contribute to the decision on it. So if I find it unappealing I'll switch to Slackware, Gentoo or a BSD, no big deal. How do you think they should have realistically approached this?
Yet oddly you've spent a lot more time discussing it with me than you have actually putting your voice to the issue, the outcome is unsurprising.
Well this is the point, they had lengthy community debate so either get involved or accept the repercussions of your decision to not be involved.
It's not a bad tool for learning C++ and working with data structures and algorithms.
Linux is community developed and free. There is no reason whatsoever that the niche filled by ChromeOS could not be much better served by community development as well.
Well then why isn't it? I'm pretty sure there is a reason which is primarily lack of resources and interest. If community development resources for a project like this were sufficient and free then yes perhaps it could be, though given the infighting around things like gnome3, systemd, pulseaudio, Ubuntu Amazon search, etc... I can imagine getting it to go in one cohesive direction without splintering off into different projects is probably a challenge.
given the difficulty of carrier certification
What is this difficulty? When a new iOS version is released the ability to get it isn't dependent on carrier certification.
They probably aren't but why does that matter?
No, he's claiming that Flash CC is a malware creation kit.
And how does one create malware with it? Flash Player has a history of having security vulnerabilities that can be exploited to be used to deliver malware but the malware isn't the SWF files that run on it.
Pretty much everybody except Adobe knows Flash Player is a security threat and a vector for malware.
Yes but this article is all about using Flash CC for targets that are explicitly not Flash Player.
For flexible, make an OpenGL app instead of a web site.
Or even a WebGL website.
Would "introduction to programming" for high school juniors be among this 10%?
You don't need a machine running a compiler for "introduction to programming" when you have tools like http://js.do/ and http://cpp.sh/. No they don't do everything and no they don't need to for introduction to programming and it even has the appropriately-named "Developer Mode" so you can chroot on a ChromeOS system if you really want a local compiler for something.
Did anyone actually buy them intending to use ChromeOS?
Given that ChromeOS is "cloud-based" I would have thought it would be pretty easy to find out the usage stats on them, if they were indeed going gangbusters I would assume Google would be telling everybody about it rather than people just quoting Amazon sales.
Yep. They re-invented Grattiti.
This is a *LOT* different to Graffiti. Graffiti was based on simple gestures for inputting characters rather than character recognition, for example to put in an exclamation mark you didn't draw an exclamation mark, you had to know gesture for producing one, which was to draw a vertical line from top to bottom. That method is entirely unintuitive because you have to remember not what the character looks like but what the gesture for drawing it is.
Ok but where is your contribution, there were extensive debates in the mailing lists and various places online so where is your well-reasoned objection? I hope it wasn't just "LMFAO".
Suppose I prefer a Windows 7 workflow on my Windows machine. Unless I install something third-party, I don't get a nice Start Menu.
Right, they removed it so if you prefer it then install a 3rd party add on. But given that the start menu doesn't exist on other platforms anybody not totally indoctrinated in use of the start menu is not going to have much trouble. The question is why are these people claiming that Windows 8 is unusable on a site like this? (not that you're doing that) Given the solution to the problem is as easy as installing an addon, a replacement shell, adapting your workflow to something matching other platforms or developing your own start menu replacement?
Right as it should, but that's ok if you don't understand why.
Cheers!
I wasn't aware of it, I figured maybe they wanted him to help design algorithms/simulations for CTF-style games.
Oh nevermind, I assume you mean the DefCon style one, difficult to know when there's no link to anything.
As in a real-world Capture the Flag or in a game like Team Fortress CTF?
This is the second time you've interjected into a discussion between myself and somebody else crying that you can't understand, yet you are the only person who cannot understand. The language is not complex which is why nobody else - including the people actually having the discussion - is having any trouble with it except you, repeatedly, so obviously it's your problem.
Of course, this is what it's all boiling down to, this group of people are forced to switch.
Yes that's true, but most Linux users won't even notice.
But this group of people is the one going to be laughing when SHTF with systemd and consorts, and certainly, at some point we won't give a fuck, but it's still a hassle and it's the community at large that suffers due to the segregation. Eventually, this "vocal minority" as some people call this group, is the one who's got the brains, apparently.
You say that but Arch, Core, Fedora, Mageia and openSUSE have been using it for years and RHEL recently did it's release as well, all the fear-mongering has amounted to pretty much zero of anything. Also FWIW here is the summary debate page for Debian's adoption of systemd and there's a bunch of linked documentation there as well.
Sorry, even $2300 isn't enough for a device of this complexity.
But when you can raise €100,000 with another €460,000 when you ship you can get a business loan to cover the ongoing costs. Not to mention it is already at Alpha stage and this is only to get it to Beta and from there commercial production.
And the team lacking any engineers or anyone with a verifiable experience in building projects of similar size?
Well the Alpha shows they have the ability to produce the product.
Then we misunderstood each other, because I don't give a shit about redhat. Haven't used them since 5.x-6.x and never looked back since.
Yes but Red Hat is one of the members of the GNOME foundation and Debian has a reliance on GNOME so in turn if Red Hat contributes its changes to GNOME then the Debian project has the choice to use a different DE (in the same way Slackware avoids systemd and uses KDE) or fork GNOME.
I was specifically talking about the over-the-community's-head decision in Debian, which so many other distros depend upon. It's basically a coup d'etat, IMHO.
That's up to the Debian contributors, if enough of them wanted the change then the change gets implemented, if the change was poor then users can switch to Slackware-derived options or Gentoo instead. Enough of them supported the change, most users won't notice, many who do notice don't object and a vocal minority do object. You can't force people to do what you want them to do, if you don't like it then don't use it and instead support Slackware or Gentoo.
Well then the problem is that the desktop Linux community has become reliant on a small group of entities that obviously act in their own interests. Now you can accept their contributions or reject them but you cannot tell them what to contribute, that is their choice not yours.
-Dock = Taskbar
...and if you really want...
-Spotlight = Search
-Desktop = Desktop
-Finder = Explorer
-Launchpad = Start Screen
I *mostly* use Windows at work and *mostly* OS X at home and the workflow is the same on both.