I would like to have an accurate poll as to how many of these 'informed' slashdot posters actually voted.
If you think America is a democracy, think again.
In WA State alone: 1) We voted NO on building a 3rd runway. Somehow the Port of Seattle decided to build one anyway (oh ya, the Port of Seattle has a TON of money).
2) We voted NO on a 500million dollar stadium (Taxes funding a PRIVATE BUSINESS!!!) - now we have two (and are paying for it).
And let's not even talk about the electoral college, "soft money" and lobbying, and the whole Florida fiasco. America's "democratic republic" only applys to those with deep pockets in many cases.
the _users_ AND the _sysadmins_ are just pissed off by this instable and poorly equipped OS (no embedded scripting language, not onboard tools, poor automation)
I have no opinion as to what OS was best for the arlines, but please let's keep the/. unfactual M$ bashing to a minumum...
No embedded scripting language: Windows Scripting Host (JScript or VBScript). Coming soon: C#, Perl and Python through.NET.
No onboard tools: MMC. Yes, MMC was a big resource hog in the DOT OH stages, but it's matured into a very reasonable solution for sysadmins. Plus, if you look at all the new tools (eg VisualStudio and others) coming out from M$, you'll notice that all of the configs (server and workstation) are moving to a standardized XML format which can be edited via script or manually.
Poor automation: Win2K is almost "over-automated"! There's so many fricken wizards that do stuff for you, that it's easy to get lazy and neglect building more optimized automations. Plus, most automation happens at the application level - "system automation" is generally an OS independant issue.
Ok, now we have a shared T1, for 25 people (who i'm assuming will all be geeks, and will be downloading stuff late at night...) Assume a T1 can get maybe 160k/s throughput (you can't get 100% util on a T1 w/o severe latency problems), you get 6.4k/s.
Oh give me a break. We run a 40 person office on a 256k (small 'k', your 'k' should be a 'K') frame relay (768 burst... have yet to see it) with a tier 2-N provider (I swear we are about 10 hops away from any POP) and for the most part bandwidth is NOT a problem - even with people streaming "Internet radio" etc. all day long. 25 people sharing a T1 != 25 concurrent downloads of high-rez natlie portman pictures.
If you want to run your own "mini NOC", then pony up the cash and get ISDN, a T1, or something faster put into your basement. But if you are subscribing to a consumer grade ISP's offerings, don't be suprised when this happens. And especially don't start with the geek indignation, because consumer broadband is not meant, nor sold, under the pretense of running home servers.
If I pay $50/month for a 256k pipe, and if I want to do my own personal development and want to be able to show others my site from work, or setup a private FTP so that I can grab files offsite, they sure as hell better not stop me. These are totally legitimate uses of a consumer/home office level Internet connection. Plus, with most connections, you can't run a "mini NOC" due to the bandwidth restrictions (128k - 256k upstream).
Wow - the arrogence you express is less then necessary.
First, no idiot modded me up - I can post at 2 if I want.
Second, the discussion was on a specific protocol, so bandwidth saving is a "BIT" offtopic, not WAY offtopic (read: my post without emotion).
Third, with both IE and Netscape we have seen source code spit accross the screen using HTTP compression. You will note that most all of the largest sites DO NOT USE IT. This was tested internally, and on external sites (Windows clients where the only ones affected).
Please, we are talking about technical issues, there is no reason to get all flustered.
Comparing just the processor does a disservice to the engioneering that apple puts into it's products.
You are 100% correct.
If you read carefully, the scope of my response is directly pointed to the replied discussion regarding the CPU's "mhz" rating, and how Apple may calculate thier numbers differently, and has a better CPU architecture. This was not a "system comparison" discussion, in which, as you state, the scope would have been way to narrow.
Ever heard of mod_gzip? It compress anything that goes trough your Apache webserver and it is supported by most browsers. With everything running over http theses days, this is the way to go...
First of all, this seems a bit off topic. Second, you can read about HTTP compression on the W3C website. It's definatly not a HUGE impact (and has some bugs with certain browsers base on my own tests). Finally, AFAIK, ALL major web servers have this built in as it is part of the HTTP1.1 spec. Nothing to see here, move on please:).
Apple hardware is too slow
Based on what? The MHz? The G4 500 Mhz performs roughly the same as PIII 1 Ghz. I heard a rumor recently that may explain this MHz myth on why Apple's chips haven't hit the GHz barrier yet: Intel and their x86 competitors (AMD, etc) count both the rising edge and falling edge of the clock cycle, while Motorola (makers of the Apple CPUs) count only the rising edge.
Actually, although the G4 is clearly a superior chip then a PIII, or even an Athlon Thunderbird, the price performance ratio is what is in question.
You're right - mhz rating has NOTHING to do with it. It's completely irrelevant if processor A at nmhz outperforms processor B at nmhz. What does matter, is if processor A at $n outperforms processor B at the same price. Anyone can go out and build a super optimized chip that runs at 500mhz and outperforms another chip at 2ghz, but what's the point if it costs 10times as much?
To quantify my point with a relevant example, here's a rough comparison:
If I spend $77 for an Athlon 1.0Ghz, I don't care if a $349 G4 500mhz get's similar scores on benchmarks.
Surprised - JonKatz stuck to the topic!
on
Review: Rush Hour 2
·
· Score: 4, Funny
A review of a Jackie Chan movie by JonKatz, and no comment like, "Now, if only Chan and Tucker could bust into prison and free Dmitry while battling the evil creators of the DMCA!":-)
How long does it take to immobilize someone?
The effect occurs within a few milliseconds.
This will come in great when I need to get in the front of the line for the next Star Wars movie. No more camping outside the theatre - JUST STUN THE CROWD!
Another interesting point of interest is with the new Final Fantasy: spririts within movie, actors are beginning to consider copyrighting their likenesses...
Actually, the concept "replicating a voice" is a bit short sited. For example, years ago we where able to replicate the sound of a piano with computers/synthesizers. That doesn't mean that the computer becomes a great piano player - it's just a narrow replication of the sound. The same (to some degree) applies to replicating a voice. Sure, I can make a voice resemble an actors voice, but no computer can generate a persona as annoying as Chris Tuker:).
Complete hogwash. I was an avid netscape fan until 4.0 came out. Then I started looking at Opera, IE, etc. It was no where near w3c compliant (IE4 had WAY better compliance), it's solution for layout was proprietary LAYER tags (complete junk), it crashed non-stop, and was about 1/2 the speed of IE4.
Microsoft is doing it again, but with Messenger, Windows Media Player, Photo printing services, and other technologies in XP.
Last I saw, OS X comes with CD buring software, a pretty decent movie maker, DVD authoring software, a decent mail client, and much more. Where do you draw the line? Microsoft can add all the value they want to their OS. The problem used to be that OEM's couldn't add/remove certain things. Now they can.
Of course, since other projects have demonstrated they can do the same things that AIM does, and AOL has repeatedly shut them out of its IM network, it's interesting to see a sudden interest in "interoperability."
Well, they're interested in controlling the interoperability. I'm not sure why most people on/. are so tense about this - it's AOL's bandwidth/hardware that you're using. Any thoughts?
Pardon my inquiry, but isn't this nothing that can't be done with the skills learned in that "Learn Perl in 24 hours" book?
Although many (such as myself) have built "block" and page caching components utilizing the simple "http GET, save to cache file, index in global hash table" or similar techniques, having this in an apache_mod has two benefits:
1) It's compiled, so it will run faster than your scripts.
2) It's implemented BEFORE it hits your dynamic engine so it lessons the load to mod_perl|php|cf etc.
I never said it didn't work, or that it's not easy to set up. I personally use it because my ISP has yet to support SMTP-AUTH. I just know that 1/10 times you have to retry and that it's noticeably slower than SMTP-AUTH.
I'm sorry but why are these posts mocking/. getting modded up to funny? This has NOTHING to do with mail RELAY or SPAMMING. If these jokers knew anything about mail, relay and sender are two different things. Not allowing relay doesn't mean the sender has to have a fixed domain. The sender is so easy to fake I can send anyone mail from billg@microsoft.com if I want to (READ: stick to the facts).
Most people these days use POP-BEFORE-SMTP or SMTP-AUTH
Based on what evidance? I'll agree that both methods are catching on rapidly, but just read further down and you'll see posts of people who work for ISP's that have yet to implement this.
I for one am a huge proponent of sending mail through the actual domain of the from address, but until SMTP-AUTH is a standard (POP-BEFORE-SMTP is too slow and doesn't always AUTH properly after each POP) , I don't think Verizon should do this. Especially with the advent of very cheap and easy to setup domain names.
Slashdot Mirror
I would like to have an accurate poll as to how many of these 'informed' slashdot posters actually voted.
If you think America is a democracy, think again.
In WA State alone:
1) We voted NO on building a 3rd runway. Somehow the Port of Seattle decided to build one anyway (oh ya, the Port of Seattle has a TON of money).
2) We voted NO on a 500million dollar stadium (Taxes funding a PRIVATE BUSINESS!!!) - now we have two (and are paying for it).
And let's not even talk about the electoral college, "soft money" and lobbying, and the whole Florida fiasco. America's "democratic republic" only applys to those with deep pockets in many cases.
the _users_ AND the _sysadmins_ are just pissed off by this instable and poorly equipped OS (no embedded scripting language, not onboard tools, poor automation)
/. unfactual M$ bashing to a minumum...
.NET.
I have no opinion as to what OS was best for the arlines, but please let's keep the
No embedded scripting language: Windows Scripting Host (JScript or VBScript). Coming soon: C#, Perl and Python through
No onboard tools: MMC. Yes, MMC was a big resource hog in the DOT OH stages, but it's matured into a very reasonable solution for sysadmins. Plus, if you look at all the new tools (eg VisualStudio and others) coming out from M$, you'll notice that all of the configs (server and workstation) are moving to a standardized XML format which can be edited via script or manually.
Poor automation: Win2K is almost "over-automated"! There's so many fricken wizards that do stuff for you, that it's easy to get lazy and neglect building more optimized automations. Plus, most automation happens at the application level - "system automation" is generally an OS independant issue.
Ok, now we have a shared T1, for 25 people (who i'm assuming will all be geeks, and will be downloading stuff late at night...) Assume a T1 can get maybe 160k/s throughput (you can't get 100% util on a T1 w/o severe latency problems), you get 6.4k/s.
Oh give me a break. We run a 40 person office on a 256k (small 'k', your 'k' should be a 'K') frame relay (768 burst... have yet to see it) with a tier 2-N provider (I swear we are about 10 hops away from any POP) and for the most part bandwidth is NOT a problem - even with people streaming "Internet radio" etc. all day long. 25 people sharing a T1 != 25 concurrent downloads of high-rez natlie portman pictures.
If you want to run your own "mini NOC", then pony up the cash and get ISDN, a T1, or something faster put into your basement. But if you are subscribing to a consumer grade ISP's offerings, don't be suprised when this happens. And especially don't start with the geek indignation, because consumer broadband is not meant, nor sold, under the pretense of running home servers.
If I pay $50/month for a 256k pipe, and if I want to do my own personal development and want to be able to show others my site from work, or setup a private FTP so that I can grab files offsite, they sure as hell better not stop me. These are totally legitimate uses of a consumer/home office level Internet connection. Plus, with most connections, you can't run a "mini NOC" due to the bandwidth restrictions (128k - 256k upstream).
Wow - the arrogence you express is less then necessary.
First, no idiot modded me up - I can post at 2 if I want. Second, the discussion was on a specific protocol, so bandwidth saving is a "BIT" offtopic, not WAY offtopic (read: my post without emotion). Third, with both IE and Netscape we have seen source code spit accross the screen using HTTP compression. You will note that most all of the largest sites DO NOT USE IT. This was tested internally, and on external sites (Windows clients where the only ones affected).
Please, we are talking about technical issues, there is no reason to get all flustered.
Comparing just the processor does a disservice to the engioneering that apple puts into it's products.
You are 100% correct.
If you read carefully, the scope of my response is directly pointed to the replied discussion regarding the CPU's "mhz" rating, and how Apple may calculate thier numbers differently, and has a better CPU architecture. This was not a "system comparison" discussion, in which, as you state, the scope would have been way to narrow.
Ever heard of mod_gzip? It compress anything that goes trough your Apache webserver and it is supported by most browsers. With everything running over http theses days, this is the way to go...
:).
First of all, this seems a bit off topic. Second, you can read about HTTP compression on the W3C website. It's definatly not a HUGE impact (and has some bugs with certain browsers base on my own tests). Finally, AFAIK, ALL major web servers have this built in as it is part of the HTTP1.1 spec. Nothing to see here, move on please
Apple hardware is too slow
Based on what? The MHz? The G4 500 Mhz performs roughly the same as PIII 1 Ghz. I heard a rumor recently that may explain this MHz myth on why Apple's chips haven't hit the GHz barrier yet: Intel and their x86 competitors (AMD, etc) count both the rising edge and falling edge of the clock cycle, while Motorola (makers of the Apple CPUs) count only the rising edge.
Actually, although the G4 is clearly a superior chip then a PIII, or even an Athlon Thunderbird, the price performance ratio is what is in question.
You're right - mhz rating has NOTHING to do with it. It's completely irrelevant if processor A at nmhz outperforms processor B at nmhz. What does matter, is if processor A at $n outperforms processor B at the same price. Anyone can go out and build a super optimized chip that runs at 500mhz and outperforms another chip at 2ghz, but what's the point if it costs 10times as much?
To quantify my point with a relevant example, here's a rough comparison:
If I spend $77 for an Athlon 1.0Ghz, I don't care if a $349 G4 500mhz get's similar scores on benchmarks.
A review of a Jackie Chan movie by JonKatz, and no comment like, "Now, if only Chan and Tucker could bust into prison and free Dmitry while battling the evil creators of the DMCA!" :-)
How long does it take to immobilize someone? The effect occurs within a few milliseconds.
This will come in great when I need to get in the front of the line for the next Star Wars movie. No more camping outside the theatre - JUST STUN THE CROWD!
Another interesting point of interest is with the new Final Fantasy: spririts within movie, actors are beginning to consider copyrighting their likenesses...
:).
Actually, the concept "replicating a voice" is a bit short sited. For example, years ago we where able to replicate the sound of a piano with computers/synthesizers. That doesn't mean that the computer becomes a great piano player - it's just a narrow replication of the sound. The same (to some degree) applies to replicating a voice. Sure, I can make a voice resemble an actors voice, but no computer can generate a persona as annoying as Chris Tuker
Bah! Programmers never die, they just go sub and don't return().
Actually, I believe we get pushed to the top of the stack.
Turns out the scorched corn field in Pennsylvania, and the reports of car sized space rocks hitting the earth were a bit overthe top.
;)
Are you implying that the US media wasn't completely factual regarding this incident?
So, to sum up this threads point:
Correlation does not define causation!
Complete hogwash. I was an avid netscape fan until 4.0 came out. Then I started looking at Opera, IE, etc. It was no where near w3c compliant (IE4 had WAY better compliance), it's solution for layout was proprietary LAYER tags (complete junk), it crashed non-stop, and was about 1/2 the speed of IE4.
DISCLAIMER: This really isn't a flame. I'm a web developer and have a valid opinion regarding this issue.
If netscape didn't die off I bet the internet would be a little bit different then today.
You mean, if Netscape didn't COMPLETELY SCREW UP Netscape 4? Trust me, the death of Netscape had little to do with the MS icon on windows.
that bringing an end to the legacy 9x/ME OS isn't a good and important thing? That in and of itself is justification enough for Windows XP.
AMEN!
Microsoft is doing it again, but with Messenger, Windows Media Player, Photo printing services, and other technologies in XP.
Last I saw, OS X comes with CD buring software, a pretty decent movie maker, DVD authoring software, a decent mail client, and much more. Where do you draw the line? Microsoft can add all the value they want to their OS. The problem used to be that OEM's couldn't add/remove certain things. Now they can.
Of course, since other projects have demonstrated they can do the same things that AIM does, and AOL has repeatedly shut them out of its IM network, it's interesting to see a sudden interest in "interoperability."
/. are so tense about this - it's AOL's bandwidth/hardware that you're using. Any thoughts?
Well, they're interested in controlling the interoperability. I'm not sure why most people on
what kind of things is the big A going to do to compensate this guy for all the pure bullshit they have put him through?
:).
Maybe they'll give him a free copy of photoshop
Right, because the average user knows what su, chown, chmod are for.
Pardon my inquiry, but isn't this nothing that can't be done with the skills learned in that "Learn Perl in 24 hours" book?
Although many (such as myself) have built "block" and page caching components utilizing the simple "http GET, save to cache file, index in global hash table" or similar techniques, having this in an apache_mod has two benefits:
1) It's compiled, so it will run faster than your scripts.
2) It's implemented BEFORE it hits your dynamic engine so it lessons the load to mod_perl|php|cf etc.
I never said it didn't work, or that it's not easy to set up. I personally use it because my ISP has yet to support SMTP-AUTH. I just know that 1/10 times you have to retry and that it's noticeably slower than SMTP-AUTH.
I'm sorry but why are these posts mocking /. getting modded up to funny? This has NOTHING to do with mail RELAY or SPAMMING. If these jokers knew anything about mail, relay and sender are two different things. Not allowing relay doesn't mean the sender has to have a fixed domain. The sender is so easy to fake I can send anyone mail from billg@microsoft.com if I want to (READ: stick to the facts).
Most people these days use POP-BEFORE-SMTP or SMTP-AUTH
Based on what evidance? I'll agree that both methods are catching on rapidly, but just read further down and you'll see posts of people who work for ISP's that have yet to implement this.
I for one am a huge proponent of sending mail through the actual domain of the from address, but until SMTP-AUTH is a standard (POP-BEFORE-SMTP is too slow and doesn't always AUTH properly after each POP) , I don't think Verizon should do this. Especially with the advent of very cheap and easy to setup domain names.