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Adobe Backs Down
bruthasj writes "Adobe is going to pull out of prosecuting Dmitry, according to this." I'm glad to see that justice was served after screwing this guy over. Of course the real point was made: "We have the power. Don't reverse engineer our toys" since the guy is still in Jail, and this is "The United States Vs" and not "Adobe Vs".
ElcomSoft's Advanced eBook Processor software is no longer available in the United States, and from that perspective the DMCA worked.
Heh, unless you go to www.elcomsoft.com, of course. It's still available for download, there.
Is that the law still stands. Now what are you going to do about it?
> On the other hand Dmitri can return to his family
uhh... he seems to still be in jail. This isn't over yet.
At least Adobe is being somewhat cool about this finally (for the second time in a month (Killustrator) - yikes!).
---
You're delusionally idealistic.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
I should have noted where my explanation of your post left off and my own opinion began. Sorry bout that.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
What he's saying is that the damage is done. Adobe pulling out at this point is meaningless. Therefore they should still be held responsible and the protests should continue.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
Dimitry should countersue to "make an example of Adobe" to other corporations. The message being "wrongfully fucking with people will cost you bigtime dollars".
The DMCA is only dangerous until someone calls its bluff. I think it's time.
While it may (and, indeed, is) time for it to be struck down, I do not feel that you, or I, or anyone save Mr. Sklyarov, has the right in this juncture to make that decision. It's his freedom, not yours. Do not take that away from him. He deserves it, and so do you. We all do. Never take away anyone's freedom.
"We have the right to believe at our own risk any hypothesis that is live enough to tempt our will."
http://gabrielcain.com/
Wow! People in other parts of the world are actually buying it! Amazing...
Take a good hard look at our laws, people. Protectionism is far from dead. We talk the talk (in order to try to convince other nations to open up to our businesses) but we most certainly don't walk the walk. I always find it funny watching American politicians complain about trade barriers in other countries, none of which have half the protectionist legislation we have.
I never realized you guys out there were buying it, though. I thought it was just rhetoric intended for us US voters...
--
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
OTOH, don't let me discourage you from contributing to the ACLU as well. I think they're the best defenders our constitution has. Definately worth the price of a yearly magazine subscription...
--
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
If you mean "do you live in a country that doesn't jail people for explaining why some types of encryption are weak" then the answer is YES, it is different where I live.
If you mean "do you live in a country where reverse engineering is legal" then the answer is YES, it is different where I live.
Yes, it is different where I live.
How very ironic that your American forefathers left my country of Britain over three hundred years ago because they feared prosecution over free speech, yet now I am frightened of visiting your country because I fear prosecution over free speech.
Fuck me, yes. Yes, yes, yes. It is different where I live.
Those of us who were born and live here have the duty to try and improve the place.
Yer not wrong there, mate.
What worries me is that you (plural; Americans as a whole) don't seem to be doing a very good job of it.
America, the country of free trade, is preventing my company from trading freely with your country, because I'm not allowed to visit my customer and explain why they might be about to choose a poor copy protection system.
That isn't just YOUR problem. It's mine too.
But I can't vote in your country. So all I can do is tell my boss that I can't visit our customer, and just hope that the message gets through.
You have *no* idea how helpless this makes me feel.
--
Andrew Oakley - www.aoakley.com
I'd say it was his fault.
It was his fault for visiting a country with a repressive regime.
As an agnostic, if I visited the Iran, I would expect to be punished.
As a programmer who practices reverse engineering, if I visted the USA, I would expect to be punished.
I don't see what the big deal is. I just have to refuse to go to the USA until they repeal the DCMA. There are a whole host of third world countries with daft laws to prosecute foriegners. The USA is just another to add to this list.
Heck, I heard from a friend that they still practice the death penalty over there! What do you expect from those types of countries? Duh.
Unfortunately I work for a UK software house that has a large US oil conglomerate as a customer; I have previously had to travel to the US on business, and I am expected to travel there again soon. I'll just have to say no.
Even if it means loosing my job, it simply isn't worth going to the US to risk the chance of being imprisoned.
--
Andrew Oakley - www.aoakley.com
The Register has a bad habit of posting otherwise excellent stories with what appear to be mistakes caused by typing them fast and not proofreading, but if I understand this story correctly it seems that the software developed by Dmitry Sklyarov's employer, for the sale of which he was arrested, is designed to let sight-empaired people use eBooks that they have already paid for.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
I hate to say this, but it would be better for everyone except Dimitry if Adobe had continued to press charges.
The DMCA has to go.
That's right, he *is* still in jail. I know absolutely nothing about Federal criminal law but I suspect they can keep him locked up for quite some time, charges or no. Once he is released, I hope Adobe walks the extra mile and does something nice for Dmitry.
Consider this too, how willing will the Feds be to arrest someone else in the future if they think that the complaining party will simply back-out after making a complaint? I seriously doubt that Adobe will try this again soon, "crying wolf" is not the best way to win friends at the FBI.
I sincerely hope that they do release him after/during the arraignment (or whatever the Feds call it). There are (will be) plenty of other opportunities to "test" the DMCA.
NULL
This is the shit we have to put up with because people don't vote. If everyone who reads
Allot of people bitching about the government, but how many of you people vote? I'm more pissed at Joe Public for not voting than the FBI, the FBI like all other government agencies is a reflection of the voting public.
The case is not dropped, because Adobe has little to do with it. It is between the United States Department of Justice and Dmitry Sklyarov.
What exactly did Adobe do yesterday? A symbolic gesture, at best. Nothing, at worst.
Bonus points if they give him Illustrator too :)
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
That each time you do things like this a part of your customers will decide to go elsewhere.
I'm not a large customer. I only bought a package or two per year. But it's not happening anymore. And I'm not recommending them anymore. And I'm recommending alternatives. I'm even looking for alternatives to recommend. (What do you think of Deneba? Canvas is a pretty good product, but I don't know anything about the company... still, that's a lot better than what I do know about Adobe.)
I can imagine Adobe making just restitution, but until I have heard convincing evidence that they have done so, I don't expect to change my mind. It doesn't cost me significanly. And after awhile, it will cost me to go back, so they'll need to do better than even the scales.
Caution: Now approaching the (technological) singularity.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
To who? I think of them as unpricipled bstrds. I can imagine, barely, that they could make just restitution. I see no sign of their doing so. None.
Also, I will not recommend their products. Also I will recommend against their products. And to any person that I feel open to ethical or moral arguments, I will describe why one should never purchase, lease, or recommend any product by Adobe. And to others, I will attempt to discover alternate products that more inexpensively meet their needs, or at least come suficiently close to meeting their needs that they will be satisfied. (Adobe certainly doesn't make perfect products either, after all.)
And I will decline to support any document in a proprietary Adobe protocol.
Note, this is basically a focusing and intensification of tendencies that I already had, so this is not an expensive strategy for me to adopt. But when a Windows graphics tool it needed, I will be likely to recommend Corel or Deneba rather and Adobe. (Actually, I prefer Canvas to Photoshop or Illustrator [it combines their functions], and only recommended Adobe because "it was popular", and people tended to already know it. That will no longer suffice as a reason. Actually, it will take a considerably stronger argument for me to consider it. And even then I won't agree to support it. (The absence of file conversion tools is a sufficiently good reason for refusing.)
Caution: Now approaching the (technological) singularity.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
I used to have a great deal of respect for Adobe. They're one of the few companies that consistantly churns out good software, and I've been using their products for about 15 years. However, after this Skylarov thing, I see Adobe for what I had always feared they'd become; just another money-grubbing big-brother corporation.
They've actually been there for a few years, I just wanted to think of them as looking out for the little guy, because they've usually been rather responsive in adding new features. Sure, Photoshop is insanely overpriced, but if you use it professionally, you'd pay ten times what Adobe charges for it. Illustrator is the same. Their products are awesome (if a bit feature heavy) but their PR department will have a tough job fixing this one.
We must make an example of Adobe. We should continue to boycott Adobe, the music industry and every company that supported the DMCA until they make an about face and the DMCA is repealed. Otherwise we loose.
Sheesh, this is Insightful? Only on Slashdot and in student union open meetings is the idea of sitting on your arse doing less considered an effective form of political protest. If you want to do something about this, and haven't yet boycotted your own bodily functions, why not head over to the EFF donations page and drop a few dollars in the hats of the people who are doing something about these injustices? You don't have to give much, but a buck for every lazy bleeding-heart post like yours would go a long way torwards furthering the guy's defence.
Matthew @ Bytemark Hosting
what kind of things is the big A going to do to compensate this guy for all the pure bullshit they have put him through?
[quote]Imagine the headline: Russian tried for giving illegal speech according to Adobe[/quote]That would have been an unfortunate headline... very misleading.
\//
1) Dimitry is (to my knowledge) still in jail.
2) The DMCA is still on the books
3) I'd like to see the formal request from Adobe to the Feds to release Dimitry
4) This doesn't begin to address the FBI's frankly unconstitutional conduct.
Yeah, we won the battle. Ooh rah. We Americans won Lexington and Concord, too. After which the Redcoats proceeded to kick our asses around the continent for several years. Just because Darth Vader was last seen spinning off into space doesn't mean the saga is over. It just got started.
Not that I think this is unwinnable. I think it's very winnable. But it's going to take more than just a week, and more than just a single protest. It's going to take time and effort and bucks and blood and sweat and tears, against an enemy far more powerful and insidious than li'l ole Adobe. I'm talking about tyrrany, foriegn and domestic. (No, I don't advocate the violent overthrow of the US government. I advocate the impeachment, explulsion, and possible execution for treason for those elements within the government who have sold out our rights and our country to the highest bidder.) But we can win this war, and we will win it, if we stay the course.
All aboard.
--
'And should we win the day, the 4th of July will no longer be known as an American holiday, but as the day when the world declared in one voice, "We will not go quietly into the night! We will not vanish without a fight! We're going to live on! We're going to survive!" Today, we celebrate our Independence Day!'
-- ID4
One day, your doing a presentation at defcon about eBook security and pointing out its pitfalls and you're arrested by a foreign government under the guise of a law that was pushed though congress by interest groups trying to limit "unauthorized distribution", even though the program you made only made a copy for personal use. You're locked up, and you have a 4 month old child halfway across the world, and your name makes headlines in both the electronic and print press. Finally, the nightmare is ending for Dmitry Sklyarov. Adobe talked with the EFF, and even though they appear evil and vicious for what they did, they're trying to wrong a right. I want to praise Adobe for coming to their senses, and thank the EFF for helping them see the light. Now let's get Dmitry back home to his wife and child.
A symbolic gesture, at best. Nothing, at worst.
:)
I got a symbolic gesture for them..
Need Free Juniper/NetScreen Support? JuniperForum
Although this is a great victory, and it shows what we can do when we get organized and unified...
1. Dmitry is still in jail.
2. The DMCA is still on the books.
3. The EFF still needs your help.
Let's keep this momentum going!
We were scheduled to protest Wednesday in Portland. Should we cancel it?
I'm still not going to buy anything Adobe, and neither should you. The past few weeks has been Adobe Lawyer Month, and I won't forget that.
Help achieve Liberty in your lifetime - join the Free State Project - http://www.freestateproject.org
when involved in hostage negotiations, NEVER grant concessions
When you don't grant concessions in hostage negotiations, people die. Was Dmitry's life in danger? No? Maybe you should find a better analogy. . .
... which he can then encrypt and prosecute he who cracks it, starting the cycle all over again? ;)
DMCA is still law of the land, and Adobe says they still support it. On the other hand Dmitri can return to his family (I understand he has two kids) which is a good thing.
Wired has a brief blurb on it below. Brings up the fact that Dmitri ain't in the clear. Call your congress man/woman/vegatable. http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45489,00 .html
A battle is won :-)
Unfortunately the fight will go on, one very important round will be in Europe. The new copyright directive is at least as bad as DMCA. Therefore it's essential that everyone in Europe will be fighting on the national level to prevent the worst possible outcome (the problem is that unfortunately the directive doesn't give too much space for the national implementations) Still the questions like the level of copyright crimes in criminal law is up to the national states. The Sklyarov arrest should be a "good" case to use as warning example what too far reaching jurisdiction can cause.
The game has just started - stay informed and be active!
V.
My DeCSS archive:
Yahoo! has a mirror of the press release, from Business Wire. Let's see you try to slashdot THAT.
For more information, click here.
Exactly.
Elcom backed down (probably rightly, because Dmitry doesn't deserve to rot in jail for his employer's actions). Adobe got everything they wanted.
Looks like EFF figured out where the parade was going and ran out in front to "lead" it.
I stand corrected then.
So Adobe drops their, ah, request to prosecute Dmitry... based in part on their satisfaction that the software won't be sold in .us. Which was a done deal before Dmitry showed.
Okay, now I'm really confused. Just what the hell did they want?
I know the answer to that.
Hey, so, anyone who wants to test the validity of the DMCA in court should probably go out their own damn selves and try to get arrested under the criminal section.
Dmitry didn't volunteer to go to jail, and he shouldn't have to stay there for years, potentially, in order to overturn a law in our country, 10000 miles from his home, wife, and children.
Advocates who want to test the law should therefore step forward and get arrested. If you need help figuring out how to make, and make money off of, so-called circumvention devices, well, I suggest you start making CD-ROMs of DeCSS and sell them over the Internet. Quick way to bring down the shit hammer on your own head.
Evan Prodromou | evan@prodromou.name | http://evan.prodromou.name/
Come on; you wouldn't throw away your career in protest over Dmitry.
True, Alan's career hardly rests on USENIX. But then again, USENIX didn't exactly come crawling back to him, hmm?
It just seems like too much for an issue that was basically resolved in a week. You may enjoy cutting off your nose (professional association) to spite your face (unsavory characters trying to co-opt
And the `American' crack was a juvenile ad hominem attack. Wow, you must be a European to think that all Americans are stupid sellouts who only happen to live in the center of the techie world by some weird coincidence. I mean, we're all stupid, fat, pissy-American-lager swilling Survivor-watchers, right?
Bitch.
-grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
You/we *won*! I think this means you stop poking Adobe in the eye.
Dmitri: "Look, piss-poor encryption!"
Adobe: "Raaa, woo, bluugh!"
Slashdot: "RAAA, WOO, BLUUGH!"
Adobe: *meep*
Taco: "RAAAAH!!! WOOO!!! BLUUUGH!!!"
Slashdot: "Uh, dude, it's over."
Taco: "RAAAAAHHH!!! --" [thump]
Uh, right.
-grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Does this mean that Alan Cox will come crawling back to USENIX? Maybe they'll beg for him... nah.
That's the trouble with grand, explosive gestures like that...
-grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
I'm sorry, but this annoys the hell out of me every time I see it.
loose (ls)
adj. looser, loosest
Not fastened, restrained, or contained: loose bricks.
Not taut, fixed, or rigid: a loose anchor line; a loose chair leg.
Free from confinement or imprisonment; unfettered: criminals loose in the neighborhood; dogs that are loose on the streets.
Not tight-fitting or tightly fitted: loose shoes.
Not bound, bundled, stapled, or gathered together: loose papers.
Not compact or dense in arrangement or structure: loose gravel.
Lacking a sense of restraint or responsibility; idle: loose talk.
Not formal; relaxed: a loose atmosphere at the club.
Lacking conventional moral restraint in sexual behavior.
Not literal or exact: a loose translation.
Characterized by a free movement of fluids in the body: a loose cough; loose bowels.
lose (lz)
v. lost, (lôst, lst) losing, loses
v. tr.
To be unsuccessful in retaining possession of; mislay: He's always losing his car keys.
To be deprived of (something one has had): lost her art collection in the fire; lost her job.
To be left alone or desolate because of the death of: lost his wife.
To be unable to keep alive: a doctor who has lost very few patients.
To be unable to keep control or allegiance of: lost his temper at the meeting; is losing supporters by changing his mind.
To fail to win; fail in: lost the game; lost the court case.
To fail to use or take advantage of: Don't lose a chance to improve your position.
To fail to hear, see, or understand: We lost the plane in the fog. I lost her when she started speaking about thermodynamics.
To let (oneself) become unable to find the way.
To remove (oneself), as from everyday reality into a fantasy world.
To rid oneself of: lost five pounds.
To consume aimlessly; waste: lost a week in idle occupations.
To wander from or become ignorant of: lose one's way.
To elude or outdistance: lost their pursuers.
To be outdistanced by: chased the thieves but lost them.
To become slow by (a specified amount of time). Used of a timepiece.
To cause or result in the loss of: Failure to reply to the advertisement lost her the job.
To cause to be destroyed. Usually used in the passive: Both planes were lost in the crash.
To cause to be damned.
---- El diablo esta en mis pantalones! Mire, mire!
Just look around. There STILL isn't an Association of Information Technology Professionals backed by all of us. And we've been being abused for HOW long? It's clear now that the EFF is not our leader, and we therefore have no leader at all.
In other words, unless we organize (and weed out the whining teenagers who just are in it for the rebellion), we're going to continue to be screwed. We have lots of resources. It's high time we used them.
------
San José, meet at the snake @11:00 am unless Dmitry is free by that time.
Tell all your friends.
-jcr
(We don't need no organization!)
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Indeed. Check out their Press Release:
I.e., "we'll do it again, and again, just not when you're looking."
So... we keep looking.
- - - - -
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
> Sir, you are absolutely correct that the post I made was callous. It doesn't change what happened, though.
Just wanted to say, this is the most respectful introduction, to a rebuttal, that I have ever seen.
Part of a particularly well-reasoned discussion, esp. considering the politically hot subject.
Good reading today. Thank you (all) for making it so.
> Boycott America- Not Worth The Risk Of Visiting
Those of us who were born and live here have the duty to try and improve the place.
Is it any different where you live?
> I really would have liked to have seen this go to court. While I feel for Dmitry's family, I think that his case could have been used to overturn the DMCA.
Here's what you do: violate the DMCA until you get thrown in jail, and have your case in court.
It's called civil disobedience.
BTW, You can't have a proxy go to jail for you, and still call it civil disobedience (not in my book).
The 2600 and Felten cases are still progressing. Felten is probably the best shot because he can't be vilified as an evil "hacker" (yeah, I know), as 2600 and Dmitri have been.
How to solve most of our problems: 1.Lots of nuclear plants. 2.Cure aging.
if the feds are going to release Dmitry right away, since Adobe has dropped the complaint against him. That wouldn't make them look too good, would it?...
I would, but you're below my threshold and therefore I can't read your suggestion.
We must make an example of Adobe. We should continue to boycott Adobe, the music industry and every company that supported the DMCA until they make an about face and the DMCA is repealed. Otherwise we loose.
The problem is that Adobe didn't give him authority to decrypt Ebooks, they just weaselled out of supporting his prosecution. Their statement was that "[the product in question] is no longer available in the US..." So, in essence, they are still supporting his prosecution; but not publically
-RB
"One man can change the world with a bullet in the right place."
- Mick Travis, "If..."
now we don't get the opportunity to test the validity of the DMCA in the court system. Of course, I don't want to wish that on poor Dmitri. He has been abused enough by the FBI/Adobe in this matter.
This is probably why Adobe wanted the EFF to delay protesting though - they knew they were going to drop the charges and recommend he be released but had to go through the formality of meeting with the EFF to make sure they got the agreement of the other side first. Glad to see the protesters went out anyways - nothing shapes corporate opinion more than the potential of lost sales due to bad publicity.
"The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
And even then, he would still be guilty of distributing it.
There are so many things wrong with the DMCA you could never hope to cover them all in a single slashdot post.
A new kind of meat designed to appeal to vegetarians.
You know, ThinkGeek should start producing protest T-Shirts (with the usual % going to the EFF maybe) in some highly visible colour, and then every Friday or something people should wear them at Lunch.
If you see a bunch of people all wearing the same shirt, (especially if it's LOUD enough), that should make it into those goofy "awww, isn't this cute" local news segments and such and help raise awareness a bit.
This obviously won't help get Dmitri out of jail any faster, but in the long run, it may help to show DMCA for being the POS that it is.
$0.02 (CDN)
$0.02 (CDN)
wupps... sorry for the bolding... should have previewed it first!
$0.02 (CDN)
This is the biggest crock of shit. Adobe knows that their say will not get him free now, and that they are getting a lot of shit from the community. This is just a method for them to pretend like they are the good guys. Nothing has changed: Dymitry is still in jail, and Adobe is the same damn company that it used to be when it called the FBI with a tip. Next time these tips are going to be "anonymous"
Buying a Dell computer is equivalent to dropping the soap in a prison shower.
Right after I signed Dibona's Free Speech, Free Sklyarov petition...
- grunby
I agree and feel your pain, but you have to realize they can't be too foolhardy and march around the establishment like they are the authority, as they are not. They did drop the ball, but have faith. They are a new org in a new world, and need to time to grow, and need more seriously interested members.
How is this different from what I said?
DMCA is being fought in the courts, by the EFF. We don't need to have Dmitry in jail to do that. 2600 was censored by DMCA and the lower courts (1st amendment). Felten was censored by RIAA (1st amendment).
Why is Dmitry required to martyr himself so that our courts may make the right ruling on this law?
Heavens to mergetroid, he's not even out on bail at this point!
-Renard
and if it has to be a criminal case, why does it have to be Dmitry, rather than some US citizen (you?) who volunteers to be a test case and stays free on bail as the case works its way through the courts (c.f. the CDA case)?
-renard
If you feel strongly about what they're doing (as I do), then join or make a donation (I did).
There's no need for Dmitri or anyone else to rot in jail while the legal maneuvering continues. We don't need to martyr anyone (esp. not foreign nationals) - we need the law overturned.
-Renard
30 cents says he won't grant rights for an E-Book.
Adobe knows, or maybe even arranged, that this guy will still be prosecuted. Adobe gets the best of both worlds. They don't look like bad guys and the guy that broke their content protection scheme is going to be prosecuted.
Adobe had nothing to lose by giving this statement.
Environmentalists are their own worst enemy. ~tricklenews.com
Or sent to Siberia, or whatever the KGB generally did with people they disapproved of.
Note to FBI and those with no sense of humor: this is not thought-crime. It is a joke.
And of course the NYT supports the DMCA, once they start moving to whatever the next phase of digital news content is (and I don't mean just pay-subscription web stuff), the DMCA will be protecting them and their content.
+1, Insightful
EveryDNS. Use it. It works.
AC's need not reply
It really makes me angry that the media isn't more concerned with the DCMA and the freedoms it takes away
The thing is that the media companies are what really pushed the DMCA into existance. Remember, most every publishing house, including newsprint, is owned by a much larger corperation that has fingers in many other sources.
NYT isn't one of those (they appear to have a large congomeration of things that they own), but understand that they, as a *publishing house* so they might be "playing nice" as well.
http://www.nytco.com/ (NYT comapany link)
Man, I'm starting to sound like a conspiricy theorist... and that scares me.
EveryDNS. Use it. It works.
AC's need not reply
Here, here! How can this possibly be victory? If the dismantling of the DMCA depends on the EFF we're all in trouble, American or not. The EFF sucking up to Adobe and giving them a plug to boot, while Adobe strongly supporting the DMCA and glad its working, but hey its out of their hands now. How can they not backdown? It's win-win for Adobe and everyone else loses.
The Land of the Free? I don't think so.
I really would have liked to have seen this go to court. While I feel for Dmitry's family, I think that his case could have been used to overturn the DMCA. (Imagine the headline: Russian tried for giving illegal speech according to Adobe).
While this still may go to trial at the US government level, it seems it won't have as much affect on making citizens realize what is happening.
Doh!
You can't "counter-sue" someone who hasn't sued you. When they call in the FBI and have you thrown in jail, suing them is just suing them, it's not a counter-suit. And, Adobe did not order the arrest, they complained to the government. The government then decided, based on the evidence, that an arrest was warrented. Hence, if anyone could be sued for wrongful imprisonment, it would be the federal government.
The only "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned.
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
blessings,
"Only in their dreams can men truly be free 'twas always thus, and always thus will be."
--Tom Schulman
Depending on how this case goes, I am contemplating returning my Green Card to the US Embassy in Oslo, complete with reasons.
Who Wants To Date A Norwegian?
> Is the USA so gung ho to create an
> international incident as to persue this case?
Given the record of the current president... yes.
Who Wants To Date A Norwegian?
> In view of the above, I suspect that this case
> will go forward, and to be honest, I expect the
> defendant to lose. It's a pretty clear case.
Exactly. He will be tried for breaking the law. The law itself will not be tried in the first round. If I understand the US court system correctly, the appeal will test the legitimacy of the first round, and the appeal to the second round will test the legitimacy of the actual law. In short, it's not a short route.
Who Wants To Date A Norwegian?
You write them checks, and they balance THEIR budget ?
UPS Sucks
Many in the industry hailed Dmitry's arrest. Some of the glory has just been taken out of their celebration. It's more of a moral loss for Adobe, but that's what it was about from the beginning.
After all, arresting someone doesn't make your product more secure. Adobe wanted Dmitry arrested so that they could say, "See, people that violate the DCMA are really bad criminals that deserved to be locked up with drug dealers." With this most recent release, they don't have that anymore. So it is a concession, even if it seems hollow at this point.
to change his name.
Bill, laugh... now.
oh, sure, "we can't ignore a court order"
But the DMCA says:
to ''circumvent a technological measure'' means to descramble a scrambled work, to decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise to avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright owner;
So, presumably, if Adobe says they give him authority, then all is well? Makes for an interesting licensing case. How much is your life for the next five years worth?
ok then your [sic] infringing on my copyright! Could you as [sic] me next time before STEALING my comments for your own?
I believe the FBI, and many other government agencies, work beyond the influence of the people they supposedly work for. And for that reason, and many more, my time in America is measured against the day I finally move out.
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it's on the bbc and cnn:
d _1 446000/1446947.stm
k er .arrest.reut/index.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsi
http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/internet/07/23/hac
You're exactly right. I know saying so is considered heretical in these parts, but I don't think this is a good turn of events. In the long run, it hurts everyone but Sklyarov himself.
Adobe backed down not because they thought they were wrong ("We strongly support the DMCA and the enforcement of copyright protection of digital content"), but because they thought they (and other megacorps) would lose the ability to provide a chilling effect by slinging around threats and arrests at will ("the prosecution of this individual in this particular case is not conducive to the best interests of any of the parties involved or the industry").
I'd feel really sorry for making Sklyarov an accidental martyr, but I still think that the best thing for this nation as a whole would be for the criminal case to continue so that it can ultimately be appealed to the Supreme court, who will really have no choice but to strike down the DMCA.
As long as the DMCA remains untested, we live in a state of fear. If Adobe sucessfully lobbies "The United States" (as in "The United States v. Sklyarov") to drop charges, it begs the question: how many people will be arrested and detained under an illegal law only to have the charges dropped?
The DMCA is only dangerous until someone calls its bluff. I think it's time.
Lobbying only works if Congress gives a shit. And they really don't. There are much bigger fish to fry, and their ignorance allows them to look like the good guys in this case. ("We're protecting the hard working individuals of this country from intellectual property theft"). Honestly -- who is going to vote to overturn something with a sleek and righteous sounding name like the "Digital Millenium Copyright Act?"
No, the only people who will scrutinize the case and the law long enough to realize that it is the single largest assault on the first amendment in the past 225 years is the Supreme Court. No one else has the combination of responsibility and authority to do it.
So, keep at your grass roots effort, if it makes you feel better. As for me, I'd like to see somthing that might actually work. I'd like to see a criminal case appealed to the Supreme Court.
"Immoral" might be, say, imprisoning Japanese civilians or castrating persons of low IQ, but certainly not depriving us of fair use rights.
If the law takes away our rights, how is it not immoral? I'd say that a law that takes away rights without one HELL of a justification is pretty much a textbook example of immorality.
--
There is no sin except stupidity -- Oscar Wilde
How may I write to the editors about news coverage or report an error? Comments and suggestions may be e-mailed to nytnews@nytimes.com or telephoned toll-free to 1-888-NYT-NEWS. The comment or correction will reach an appropriate editor promptly. Ordinarily a comment about news coverage will receive an individual reply. And we do pay respectful attention to all messages, even those that are part of organized letter-writing campaigns, for which we are not staffed to reply individually. A correction generally takes two or three days to appear on Page A2, after fact checking.
Um...ok, who says that when someone is being held against their will (i.e., a hostage), that the other party is out to kill them? Sometimes, you just want them quiet long enough to discredit them.
The EFF gained very little out of this whole event with Adobe. So Adobe has withdrawn their complaint, so what? Adobe has already had this man held. By withdrawing their complaint, and doing nothing else, Adobe does not right any wrongs perpetrated against this man. In fact, he is still a prisoner.
EFF gets little or nothing out of this deal- what they should have gotten was Adobe's ACTIVE participation in freeing this man. Such did not occur. Protests would have gained Adobe's withdrawal from this anyways, because Adobe doesn't need bad publicity, and because Sklyarov is facing Federal detention (and all of the byzantine mess that such detention entails). Adobe had nothing to lose by withdrawing at that point, whether EFF entered into negotiations with them or not.
My other statements in my post still stand until the EFF disproves them. I actually hope the EFF does just that. I would hate to think my donations to them went up in smoke.
mrgoat
'Hail Eris, baby, hail Eris...pfffffffttt.' *cough* 'Yeah.'
Sir, you are absolutely correct that the post I made was callous. It doesn't change what happened, though.
As for missing the point about this being a human issue, I do not. I asked if anyone was helping his wife. She and his family are largely ignored in most of these posts. I have not seen any place where I could send them kind words or money or any other form of support.
I pointed out that a company who had a vested interest in having this man imprisoned did just that, and are now safely out of the limelight. Responsibility for what occurred can be best applied by the company that had him kidnapped. However, Adobe has safely insulated themselves from having to do that now. The EFF can't touch them anymore. And before anyone might decide to apply the idea of callousness to the activities of a business enterprise, please remember that the ONLY responsiblity a company has is to it's stockholders. Human considerations in that equation are secondary.
As for Sklyarov, the federal government may hold him indefinitely, without charging him. My point wasn't about whether EFF made the "right choice" or not. The EFF blinked, and every other corporation looking to screw people like Sklyarov were watching. Callousness? Think of every person like Sklyarov out there who might get detained now, and think about how those other corporations will use Adobe's bait-n-switch tactic in the future...
As for my own lack of illusions about Adobe or the FBI, I never look at the activities of others except through a lense of their own self-interest. Where I cannot do that, I look at history. My apologies if that outlook seems calloused, but my callouses come through hard work and experience. As for Sklyarov, I think his boss, who has FBI ties, will do more for Sklyarov's release than the EFF.
mrgoat
'Hail Eris, baby, hail Eris...pfffffffttt.' *cough* 'Yeah.'
And in regards to #1, Adobe still succeeded, probably more adroitly than the EFF expected:
1. While they look like the "nice guys", the person that Adobe wanted punished is still being punished, and Adobe can wash its hands, say "what nice people we are", and walk off almost untouched by all of this.
2. Adobe proved that EFF has no teeth and can be made to back down at the drop of a hat. note to EFF organizing staff: when involved in hostage negotiations, NEVER grant concessions. The Sklyarov incident is a hostage negotiation- he is a foreign national kidnapped at the behest of Adobe by the US Govt., under the guise of enforcing a bad law. Now that Adobe let themselves off the hook and has walked scott-free from the negotiating table, who are you going to target now? Strategically, by "calling off the protest", EFF showed that:
a. They have no real control over the protests. Protestors still showed up, and would have shown up, and by "calling off the protest" the EFF only weakened its position. And Skylarov's.
b. Put themselves in a bad negotiating position- either Adobe could have said- you, EFF, are liars, there are still protestors outside; or they could have said- obviously, you aren't representing the protestors, why should we speak with you.
c. Adobe demonstrated their strength by getting EFF to capitulate, and then Adobe walked away from the entire matter. Efforts to organize effective protests both present and in the future was quashed (or damaged by Adobe), and since EFF has been shown not to be holding the right cards, and Adobe has proven to other corporations just exactly how to stand behind the DMCA while covering their own asses to the public.
3. The EFF's position with the feds may be compromised at this point. By declaring themselves to have control over protests, they have made themselves targets for federal investigation, possibly via the RICO Act (but, IANAL, and I hope to god something on that order of damage doesn't happen to EFF...they have my contribution money). However, EFF will have to watch its back even more so from now on...all it takes is one agent provocateur.
4. I didn't misread about Skylarov being in jail still? What the fuck is everyone celebrating for? Is anyone asking his wife if she needs a place to stay, or any money while her husband is in jail? Just kind of curious...I don't see anyone who is actually affected by this incident winning anything here...except maybe Adobe.
mrgoat
'Hail Eris, baby, hail Eris...pfffffffttt.' *cough* 'Yeah.'
The 2nd amendment was written in a time when small arms were about the only weapon our country had, and were about all our enemies had. Its time has long passed.
Sure, an armed group would probably succeed in producing a lot of chaos and misery, but if the political will among the people of this country didn't exist to change whatever caused that group to take up arms in the first place, their violence would probably have the *opposite* effect to acheiving their aims. What did McVeigh acheive? In the end, the idea of taking up arms in the US is ludicrous.
Quite frankly, if you're suggesting that we even use the threat of a civil war to effect change in this country, I think you should have your head examined. Remember what happened the last time we tried that (and remember who was using their arms to protect against what US Government "encroachment"?)
In short, the 'protection' the 2nd amendment gives us against tyranny is useless, and probably worse than whatever injustices it would be used to correct. Our only hope is to NOT VOTE for people who will sell out our interests. Sadly I don't see that as a realistic likelyhood either in our society, but quite frankly I'd rather live in a so-called 'authoritarian' state, rather than suffer through the carnage of taking up arms for some dubious cause. Of course ideally, the American people would use their brains and we'd live in a free country where the politicians responded to our will because they knew we were paying attention and would throw them out if we didn't. Sadly, some people would rather not participate in the political process and then threaten to blow up a building later.
It might be illegal, immoral, largely redundant, and will lead to weak encryption that helps pirates and hurts legitimate users
Oh crap, hasn't anyone had basic Am. Gov't.? Or are you all still in high school? A law passed by US Congress is never "illegal", just possibly unconstitutional. A government agent or agency may act illegally, or congress might, but a law itself cannot be illegal. Like, duh.
And "immoral" is a poor term to use for a law. "Immoral" might be, say, imprisoning Japanese civilians or castrating persons of low IQ, but certainly not depriving us of fair use rights. You're also assuming prior knowledge of the effect of the DMCA on free speech. Knowing our Congress, do you really think anyone thought twice about the results of the law, other than stopping piracy and protecting copyright holders (both good things, in most peoples' minds)? It's just plain stupidity, not immorality.
Acrobat does blow, though. I am not happy with Distiller. Way to fuck up line art, guys.
-Nat
Thanks to everyone who spoke out against the arrest of Dmitry and made it a very unpopular move, a very large coorporation has backed down from it's position. This is a huge step forward. Now it's our turn to do the Right Thing and let them know we appreciate thier turn around.
Thanks.
Speak loudly and leave that big stick at home.
The pressure on Adobe applied by the EFF and the community at large of fair-minded technical people has yeiled results. This is proof positive that what we do and think can have an effect. Let's make sure we follow through and see Dmitry aquited, freed and exhonerated.
Let's also not forget that this represents a step in the right direction towards the repeal of the DMCA. The moments after a victory are the most vulnerable moments of any movment. It's very easy to forget about the long-term goals after acomplishing something important. Let's make sure that this success does not distract us from doing what we know is right.
--
In spite of the suggestions and all the tests that I have made, I have not cavato a spider from the hole.
You underestimate the effect of a small army of people who are armed with such things are M-16's (or a wide variety of other, better guns), as well as the millions of others who have deadly chemicals under their kitchen counters. I need only to point to WW2, or even Vietnam, where hundreds of "freedom fighters" inflicted quite a bit of damage on occuping troops (either by pouring sugar into gas tanks, setting fire to convoys or by killing the occuping forces directly a la Vietnam.) The vietnamese had _nothing_ like what the average american has (today) the majority the country was either forest or farmland - I'm sure people in the usa could come up with a few "interesting" things. Hell, drive a SUV with a few hundred shotgun shells in the back seat into ___________ at 80 miles an hour. Molitovs are also suprisingly effective against quite a few things.
Oh. Here's a great article I found on yahoo today. 20 people inflicted massive damage on an airport. This is in a country that has been wracked by civil war for decades, not the USA, where someone can run onto the runway by defeating one lock (of a "push 4 buttons in sequence" type, where the code is known by pretty much everybody, and if not, a mirror and a bent piece of wire to lift up the little flappy thing that covers it is also a way to get the code.)
Anyways, the link.
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010724/wl/sri
Your point about Yugoslavia is well, not really applicable - the difference is that in Yugoslavia, the USA did not send in ground forces to occupy territory, as they would have to in the USA - they could simply bomb the city from the air - you can't do that while having an occupying army within the city, friendly fire is demoralizing at best, and fighting inside a city against an entrenched enemy who knows the area is very difficult - ask a russian who came back (few here) from Afghanistan in the 70's or Chechnya, or ask a German who came back from Stalingrad.
Besides, it takes only one person with one gun and one bullet to make a very visible political (or otherwise) statement. It will be really interesting the day a sniper opens fire on police
Not good for anyone at the protest, but still interesting, and I'm sure it will make the 6pm news.
As for the previous poster's comment about American's getting a spine, which you laughed at, remember that Tim McVeigh made a crater 30 ft deep outside a certain federal building - something, which required almost no knowledge of chemistry and used only freely available and plentiful materials. The only thing holding quite a few people back from doing this is that the government has not pissed them off enough, I'll say that some "citizen milita-like" meetings are pretty interesting, if mostly huffed up chests and BS.
I'm all for votes and faith in public officials, indeed, it is the only way to do things in a civil manner, but the second ammendment was written during a time where things were not done "politely", and written in the belief that such a time would come again - with the enemy being either foreign or domestic.
Ironically, you mention that the NRA changes things "because their members work the political process through votes and money" - which I belive is the whole point of the original poster's post - that money is at the very root of political change at the current time - and that money is not something that Joe Citizen can spend, but something that corporations can.
The slashdot 2 minute between postings limit: /.'ers since Spring 2001.
Pissing off coffee drinking
1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcf
I used to hate computers, but then a server went down on me.
I have to wonder if Adobe backed off because they didn't want the DMCA to be struck down with ease. Drop the case, and then no precedent is set, when a case that is more suited to Adobe, or another company that will strengthen the DMCA will they be so quick to drop it?
Having accomplished this goal, we need some good spin. God knows we need it after that KIllu!!!censored by Adobe!!! debacle. By appearing to not support the charges, we can appear like a nice company. Maybe no one will notice that we got the government to initiate criminal charges, and that our opinion has about the same legal standing as Donald Duck's at this point.
Furthermore, we have reiterated our support of the DMCA. It might be illegal, immoral, largely redundant, and will lead to weak encryption that helps pirates and hurts legitimate users, but we stand to make a heap of money off of it, so who cares.
Now we can go back to making sure that Acrobat 6 takes all of the resources of a supercomputer, and still sucks ass.
This is the best possible outcome for Adobe. They get him arrested in the first place, then they back down. This way they don't get the bad press, but the guy is still in jail, held by the government. Adobe got a sweet deal out of this whole thing.
Sleep: A completely inadequate substitute for caffeine.
You seem to misunderstand the point of this whole exercise. A human being, through no fault of his own, has been imprisoned against his will. The responsibility of all involved isn't just to make a point about how dumb the DMCA is. Their responsibility is to get this guy back to his home and family as quickly as possible. With Adobe backing down from their complaint, it becomes much more likely that he'll be released relatively quickly.
Sklyarov isn't some pawn the EFF can use to make their point about US Constitutional law. He's a human being, and therefore *any* lawyer trying to speak on his behalf on this case should first and foremost be trying to get him released. If a lawyer pretending to represent Sklyarov's interests allows him to remain in jail in order to advance the constitutional part of the argument, that lawyer should be disbarred for malpractice.
In other words, the EFF made the right choice in backing down from their criticism of Adobe once Adobe rescinded their complaint.
There's a time and a place for everything. The DMCA is already getting its day in court with cases that don't directly affect somebody's physical freedom. Hopefully the criminal provisions of the act will either be struck down by those cases or through a case that doesn't remove a working man as the breadwinner of a family. Your suggestion that the EFF should not have allowed Adobe to back down so easily ignores the human element of this case.
I was going to suggest Pig Latin. Then, when the prosecutor understands your responses, ask him how he can understand you. When he explains, inform him that he's just violated the same DMCA Dmitri did and he should be on trial, too, since he just described how to make a technological device to circumvent a copy protection measure. "Iay amay orrysay, utbay ouyay ivegay emay onay oichechay"
Man, I'm starting to sound like a conspiricy theorist... and that scares me.
It's not a conspiracy. It's an oligopoly. And the execs at these firms will hop firms to climb the ladder (to an extent) and they all hang out at the same industry conferences. And they are all addicted to wealth and position. And the more and more the companies conglomerate, the fewer execs will be needed, and the harder it will be for the men and women at that level to find peers with whom to go golfing and boating and the more they will end up hanging around each other. And don't get me started on the danger of allowing people to serve on the boards of more than one corporation at a time or allowing the execs of one company to serve on another's board.
And of course the NYT supports the DMCA, once they start moving to whatever the next phase of digital news content is (and I don't mean just pay-subscription web stuff), the DMCA will be protecting them and their content.
I do not have a signature
(Yes, Elcomsoft isn't really a competitor to Adobe, except that one use of their product could reduce ebook sales)
I'd only buy an eBook-like format book if I had the means to exercise my fair use and first sale rights. This tool would make me more willing to buy.
I emailed the adobe marketing execs throught the boycottadobe website. They were conveniently "out of the office" until July 30th. What a laugh. I would be too.
Adobe's a member of the BSA.
The BSA has an interesting statement on the DMCA here. This is a response to a Library of Congress rule available here.
Members of the BSA include Adobe, Apple Computer, Autodesk, Bentley Systems, CNC Software/Mastercam, Compaq, Corel Corporation, IBM, Intel, Intuit, Lotus Development, Macromedia, Microsoft, Network Associates, Novell, Sybase, Symantec, and Walker Digital; i.e. most of /.'s favourite hate companies, plus some extras.
These are the guys to line up against. They've been around since the '80s. I suspect that Adobe's lawyers are all BSA stooges. Certainly Adobe's PR department doesn't seem to be toeing the BSA line.
my old sig used to be funny, but then slashcode ate it and now it's not funny anymore
-- .sig are belong to us!
All your
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
ElcomSoft's Advanced eBook Processor software is no longer available in the United States...
Oh no, like I care. I'm going to have to shop my competition's pdf files out to Canada now...
--The space between my ears was intentionally left blank--
7 days! It only took 7 days from his arrest for the community to get the complaining party to back down.
This should get the "powers-that-be" thinking...
Elcom backed down (probably rightly, because Dmitry doesn't deserve to rot in jail for his employer's actions). Adobe got everything they wanted.
Actually, it seems that ElcomSoft backed down even before Dmitry set foot on US soil! IIRC, Adobe send the US distributor for Elcomsoft's stuff a cease and desist letter, they ceased and desisted with the online selling of the software in the US, a while later(!) Dmitry goes to DefCon and gets arrested.
this be fucking hilarious....
if Russia and the US went to war over the arrest of Dmitry.
Americans: Damn you Russians, and your lack of copyright enforcement. You guys are hurting our peop...err..corporations.
Russians: Damn you Americans, what the hell else do you expect us to do? There's nothing else here in Russia!
Americans: Yeah, well that's not a good enough excuse.
Russians: Actually, we thought of something we can do.
Americans: Great!
Russians: [Go release nuclear weapon.]
It'd make the world a much better place. Granted, I'd be dead, but so would the majority of the world's lawyers.
I wouldn't normally expect things like this to hit the mainstream newspapers. I haven't seen then in my newspaper here.
HOWEVER, when there's actual protests (as was in New York) that often hits the news (granted, not always, as in the Seattle conference) but often it does, and that's probably what convinced Adobe to get off his case.
just my pointless rambling...
Though at first it seems that there are no grounds for this because Adobe just provided the FBI with evidence, you have to remember that Adobe provided its evidence claiming it to be true with the penalty of perjury. By backing down, they are more or less admiting that they provided false evidence. Yeah, I'm skipping a lot of logical steps in that conclusion and Adobe could still say they just chose not to pursue a costly civil penalty or something to that effect but the fact remains that they still provided sworn testimony to the government. The government should keep Dimitry's cell warm once he gets freed so that Mr. Adobe will have a nice place to sleep.
I have to say I agree with everything you said but this:
"Think of every person like Sklyarov out there who might get detained now, and think about how those other corporations will use Adobe's bait-n-switch tactic in the future...
To that I would ask that you keep in mind the moves and shakes made by corps against 'anonymous posters' slandering them on yahoo and some other places. The paralell between the two scenarios is that corps leveraged an interpretation out of the courts to out these people so they could be fired (assaulted) but eventually a judge came up with three (or was it 5) relatively good points of criteria and more are following suit. My point is that despite their dense attitudes towards technology overall, evetually (there's that word again) they catch on. People will get screwed between then and now but afterall, democracy is a slow process.
BOSTON SUCKS!
"ElcomSoft's Advanced eBook Processor software is no longer available in the United States, and from that perspective the DMCA worked. Adobe will continue to protect its copyright interests and those of its customers."
So let me get this straight--Adobe worked their connections to get a competing company's employee arrested, and now will pretend to back off now that the competitor has taken their product off the market? This is scary, and the EFF should be ashamed letting themselves be used as a figleaf this way. Sklyarov won't be released anytime soon, and this whole episode basically amounted to a hostage-taking.
(Yes, Elcomsoft isn't really a competitor to Adobe, except that one use of their product could reduce ebook sales)
Remain calm! All is well!
Some type of review should be conducted to assess the actions of Adobe, the U.S. Government, and Dmitry. (but not U.S. v Dmitry) I suspect that the result of such a post mortem on the incident would yield the following:
:)
;)
a) The guy did not break any law based on the events in question.
b) The FBI demonstrated legal and technical ineptitude by arresting an individual for something that does not violate the law he was charged with breaking; nor was his work a violation of the DCMA.
c) The Atty. General demonstrated legal ineptitude by agreeing to prosecute someone even though the circumstances include the 2 points above.
IMHO, the only reason it went down the way it did was because everyone had a stake in it:
-> Abode's case could have yielded set some nasty case law, if not been the catalyst for the "Adobe Act of 2001" or some other type of ludicrous legislation which basically makes all (white hat) hackers heretics to be burned @ the FBI's stake.
-> Dmitry wanted to show ppl that ROT-13 encryption is probably not as secure as most ppl are led to believe, and if ppl knew what it was all about, and how easily it was defeated, ppl would choose another encryption solution (or *maybe* Adobe would jack it up a notch
-> The FBI wants to kick ass at Defcon. Hey if I was that poor fed that got flamed during spot the Fed on Friday AM in the Uber Haxor conf. (the one that looked like a fat John Denver and was wearing a Defcon 5 shirt that wasn't even faded, *and* was ironed) I would be a bit feisty too
I am glad to see that Adobe took the action it did. I hope Dmitry will find himself on the right side of the jailhouse door soon.
Good News. Period. Down with the DMCA.
--
Violators will be prosecuted and prosecutors will be violated.
American citizens (well, some of them) fight so hard to keep their firearms, all under pretext to keep government under control.
In Internet age, free flow of information is much more dangerous to oppressive government than small firearms.
Don't fight for stupid guns, fight for mightier weapons - censorship-free Internet, public control over media supergiants, etc.!
Huh? It is still on Elcomsoft's web site as a FREE download...
Sig: Tell all your friends NOT to download the Advanced Ebook Processor:
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
But the Elcomsoft site had it available earlier today as a free (as in beer) download (which I downloaded out of protest). Now it is not.
It is impossible to regulate internet commerce in this way when the comes to information. the cat is out of the bag and the only way to make it unavailable is to make it unavailable to everyone. I don't think that this is likely so it will probably be findable in certain ways in a few days.
Now for some ideas. I like in the US and it is pretty clear what US laws say about these issues. But knowing that Adobe's licensing terms violate consumer rights laws in Russia, and other countries, how likely is it that some people could help get lawsuits going in those countries to force Adobe to stop making their eBooks available to citizens of such countries under such draconian technologies.
Sig: Tell all your friends NOT to download the Advanced Ebook Processor:
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
I wouldn't normally expect things like this to hit the mainstream newspapers. I haven't seen then in my newspaper here.
HOWEVER, when there's actual protests (as was in New York) that often hits the news [...]
It's more likely to appear in the media if you fax and phone and email the news departments that there is a protest and give interviews to those media who show up. Especially if you time it well.
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
What he's saying is that the damage is done. Adobe pulling out at this point is meaningless. Therefore they should still be held responsible and the protests should continue.
Um. Well, yes, I am saying that the damage is done. And I am saying that Adobe pulling out at this point is meaningless on every level, other than as a face-saving compromise.
But, since I never agreed with the protests in the first place, I'm not saying the protests should continue. But, I'm not saying they shouldn't continue, either. That's something the community needs to figure out.
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
It's a day late and a dollar short. The guys in jail, has no likely date to be released, and would almost certainly have to stay in the US until the trail even if he was released.
So even if Adobe doesn't officially back the charges, they've already given the feds all the data to prosecute him, they'll almost certainly provide witnesses (oh, sure, "we can't ignore a court order") to help put him in prison, and no matter how good his defense is, he's stuck in the US and not at liberty.
The only good thing is that he can now write a book and guarantee a best seller, so he'll have some money eventually. Unless he's convicted, of course, as then the proceeds will be used for more such actions by the feds.
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
Their solution was to go to the courts and force the issue of constitutionality. And it worked. This is how the dmca will have to be fought - in the courts.
-
Jimbo: "Don't Sue People" Panda? [the bar patrons are present]
Skeeter: [stands up] Hey! We don't take kindly to folks that don't sue people 'round here!
Barkeep: Nuhow, Skeeter, he ain't hurtin' nobody.
Petey: Listen to me: when you sue somebody, it hurts everyone. You sue for money, but where do you think that money comes from? From the schools, from taxes, from the state. From you. [The courtroom is silent, listening] There's no such thing as free money. When you sue somebody, you take money away from parks and schools and charities, and put it in your own pocket. And that makes me a sa-a-a-a-ad panda. [reactions are seen in the faces of various people in the courtroom, even in Gerald's face.]
Bearded man: I'm a sad panda, too.
Man 1: I'm a really sad panda. I didn't know we were doing all that damage. This is all that damn lawyer's fault! [people get angry at Gerald]
Man 2: [rises] Yeah! Let's sue the lawyer!
All: [rising] Yeah!
Gerald: [approaches Petey and the boys] No! Don't you see? Th-the panda's right. Boy, what a great message he has! When you sue people, you just end up causing a lot of problems for society. Uhwell, I've really learned something today. All I could see was the millions of dollars coming to me and I didn't care about where the money came from. Well, I'm no longer doing sexual harassment lawsuits in schools! They're too vague and two easily corruptible. Thank you, Sexual Harassment Panda!
Petey: "Don't Sue People" Panda.
Gerald: Yeah, well, whatever, sooo let's... not... sue anyone again. Okay, come on, guys. Let's go get some ice cream!
Petey and the boys: Hooray!
Palaces, barricades, threats, meet promises
Well done the EFF, and here's hoping that's the last action brought before it's thrown out following one of the deCSS cases or the Felten action... let this be the beginning of the end for one of the most evil of the world's growing number of Stupid Internet Laws[tm].
--
"I'm not downloaded, I'm just loaded and down"
He's still in jail, and the charges still stand. I don't care IF they are goiing to participate in the prosecution or not, they are STILL the sole cause of Dimitry's imprisonment for a crime that shouldn't be a crime.
And they still deserve to be picketed and boycotted. At the VERY least, until he's released. Although, perhaps the protests should diversify... Start picketing outside the offices and homes of those of the DMCA 536 still in office.
=== The price of freedom is eternal vigilance
I used to love Bandit paste when I was in elementary school!
Click here or here.
Quite right - this isn't a civil case, it's a criminal one. And while Adobe's complaint did trigger it off, the FBI are the real bad guys here. They didn't check the facts of the case - like whether all of the statements made in the complaint were true (some of them weren't), and whether any illegal action actually took place on US soil, and if so, whether the person they arrested actually performed those actions. There's something seriously wrong with a law enforcement system that can make arrests based on unsubstantiated complaints.
I've written to the US Consol General in Munich (my local consulate) to express my outrage at the FBI's actions, and I hope all slashdot readers will do so, preferably by snail mail, even if Dmitry is release immediately with a full apology. It's time the US was made aware that it's laws don't extend beyond its territory. If anyone wants a copy of the letter I can make it available (LaTeX format) --- email me at the address on my user.pl page, not at altavista.com.
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Every bloody emperor has his hand up history's skirt [Peter Hammill/VdGG]
He was using sarcasm! Apparently that is too complex for your little brain to understand.
So climate's changing. So what? It has always changed. The big news would be if it wasn't changing. - Dr. Philip Stone
Now show yours. Protest in a way that counts. Donate time, money and/or hardware to gimp.org or to the open source Adobe software replacement of your choice.
Although we are all pleased by the actions of Adobe and the EFF today, there will nevertheless be a protest event in Champaign-Urbana, IL on Wednesday. We'll meet on the Quad in front of the Illini Union from 11:00 until 1:00. Our focus will be to educate the University community on the problems with the DMCA. If Dmitry is still in jail, we will focus on his plight as well (I hope not!). If you're can be there, PLEASE CONTACT ME IMMEDIATELY.
Thanks!
Free Dmitry Sklyarov!
Agreed. What have Adobe (and interested others) learned from this?
That last point is the one that sticks in my throat the most. Adobe have won this one, in every possible way.
What I want to know is exactly who in Adobe pressed for this prosecution, and exactly what Adobe has done to them, considering that they now say that it was a mistake.
A man is in jail, Adobe says that's wrong. OK, show us the accountability.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
I can't "me too" this one enough. The EFF bungled this so badly I'm debating the value of contributing -- I think the ACLU makes far better use of their funds.
If all this should have a reason, we would be the last to know.
I think he should counter sue Adobe for causing his arrest.
If nothing else, they will compromise outside of court to avoid the bad PR.
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Two witches watched two watches.
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Two witches watched two watches.
Which witch watched which watch?
I was wondering whether or not they had an official position about this...
I'm a bloodsucking fiend! Look at my outfit!
Seems to me Adobe realised this case wasn't going to fly and may well have brought down the DMCA. By backing off they retain the big stick of the DMCA to threaten others with.
In the U.S., you can be detained (meaning taken by the police and kept in a holding cell with everyone else) for up to 72 hours before you are even charged.
"Maintaining the illusion of freedom for over 200 years!"
Just because a few of us can read write and do a little math, doesn't mean we deserve to conquer the universe
Great news that Adobe are backing down - but several places have been touting this case as the possible "straw that breaks the canel's back" with regards to the DMCA. Can we still use this to undermine the act or are we back to square one?
I think a major reason why the Media doesn't want to side with a "hacker" who "violated the DMCA" is because it could potentially weaken the DMCA. Remember, the Media also produces tangible (and not so tangible) products, and may (probably will) start utilizing forms of encryption/copy protections to limit the readership to their targeted audience (i.e. the people whom the ads are targeted towards).
I say screw the Media, we need to make this fight OURS. As of last Friday, my company's servers no longer accept PDF files for internal use (i.e. our customers must send RTF files). Although we are a small company, we stopped using Adobe and supporting their proprietary formats (we've also purchased copies of PSP for the developers on windows systems). This isn't alot, but it's our effort, it's what WE are doing for the cause. As more companies (with sys admins that give a damn about HUMAN RIGHTS) start to realize that they have a voice, they will start to use that voice, and when a few hundred shops start screaming and rejecting formats, Big Companies start to listen. Remember people, all of those products (like Photoshop and Illustrator, and even Acrobat) were made with the purpose of profitting by us. They are aimed at a specific consumer market, the multimedia/web/graphics market! Lets use our "market share" and influence our companies to save money (gimp, paint shop pro), support more open companies, and maybe even score brownie points with OUR customers who care about human rights and corporate responsibility.
And the odds of this ending up being a test case for the DMCA would be pretty slim, since a defense would probably (IANAL) defend him based on 'he did the deed in Russia, not the USA' rather than going after the constitutionality of the DMCA.
No matter how you slice it, Adobe gave the shaft to a foreign citizen traveling in the US to give information to us, the American people, and now Adobe is trying to pretend that they did nothing wrong. It is time for them to grow up and realize that this is an action that they cannot take back.
This man is going to spend a while cooling his heels behind bars, time that he will never get back. It is Adobe's fault. Make them suffer. Spread the word as far and wide as you can outside the geek/hacker community about Adobe's actions and the replacements for Adobe software already out there. Get them where it counts, in the pocketbook.
How about this for bad PR ...in PDF format!!!
I did a google search for DMCA.
The first result, was linked to a paper outlining the ligislature that makes up the DMCA
Agreed totally. We can't celebrate anything, it's simply the mouth of Adobe saying that they are backing off. Absolutely nothing has happened yet.
As for conferences, I live in Australia and the government here is a bunch of chickens who follow the laws of the US. There are FBI agencies running around this country enforcing US laws. I do hope that the DCMA does not have a substantial affect as that in the US, otherwise conference organisers here would have to be cautious of content.
EFF.org says:
"We strongly support the DMCA and the enforcement of copyright protection of digital content," said Colleen Pouliot, Senior Vice President and General Counsel for Adobe. "However, the prosecution of this individual in this particular case is not conducive to the best interests of any of the parties involved or the industry. ElcomSoft's Advanced eBook Processor software is no longer available in the United States, and from that perspective the DMCA worked. Adobe will continue to protect its copyright interests and those of its customers."
if it actually gets to a trial, someone should testify by speaking in rot-13.
"Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?"
"V qb."
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Slashdot: When News Breaks, We Give You The Pieces
FreeBSD for the impatient.
Or anyone else who wasn't arrested in their own country for that matter!
...but mostly Russians! :D
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Sig
Though I am glad that (hopefully) he will be soon released, this is far worse than Adobe actually persuing this case. Adobe instead says "We still support this unconstitional law because it adds to our pocketbooks. But we only want the government to frighten people with it, rather than enforce it, since it will almost certainly be overturned once challenged. Plus, giving in will look like good PR." Screw Adobe
> Uh? You can be prosecuted twice for the same crime. You just can't be CONVICTED twice for the same crime.
Actually, double jeopardy does not say that you cannot be prosecuted twice for the same crime, but that you can only be prosecuted once for any specific offense.
IOW, OJ Simpson cannot be charged with the murders of Nicoles Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman. However, should he be accused of another murder, he could be prosecuted for that one. It is the same crime, but a separate offense.
Keep in mind that this is a simplified explaination, and IANAL.
Richard Hutchison
When the protestors marched on the World Trade Organization or the recent Leaders Summit, the NY times had a big article in it's main headlines section about what they were marching about and fighting for. Now that nearly every EFF person and other techno person gets into a frenzy over this dimitry fiasco, the NY times puts a small article bereft of much information in it's technology section. That's all. It's nothing big; the DCMA is just a small story
It really makes me angry that the media isn't more concerned with the DCMA and the freedoms it takes away.
Now how will this effect emulator authors? They certainly reverse engineer copyrighted materials from other companies. === First post!?