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Korean Air Mission Critical Systems Moved to Linux

securitas writes "ZDNet is reporting that Korean Air has decided to move its flight-crew scheduling and daily accounting systems to Linux running on an IBM mainframe, and 5000 users will access this information through their browsers starting in September. "

130 comments

  1. Re:Just as well... by AndroidCat · · Score: 1

    Just wait until Code RedHat is released.

    --
    One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
  2. Re:More SLOT MACHINES running linux too! by Coolfish · · Score: 3, Insightful

    if you are posting as AC, you could at least give us a juicy tidbit on how to win money with those things. like hold this button and then pull the lever at such and such a rate and then you'll get lucky sevens more often. sheesh, the quality of ac info nowadays is goin down the drain...

  3. Re:KAL's real problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Although the original poster was over generalized, I agree that KAL has a deservedly bad reputation for safety.

    Documented cases (injuries and fatalities only):

    http://aviation-safety.net/database/1999/991222- 0. htm
    http://aviation-safety.net/database/1999/990415- 0. htm
    http://aviation-safety.net/database/1999/990315- 0. htm
    http://aviation-safety.net/database/1998/980805- 0. htm
    http://aviation-safety.net/database/1997/970806- 0. htm

    Yes, this is old news, but it does agree with the original poster's assertion of "bad pilot judgement".

    Then there was at least one "near miss" around 1997 or 1998 that was ultimately traced to the altimeter being miscalibrated. Does anyone know of a database keeping track of near misses?

  4. OT: Spinning reels by Weasel+Boy · · Score: 1

    Slot machine Trivia! Many people say they don't like slot machines with "virtual reels" displayed on a computer screen because "that computer thing can cheat". They say they prefer the "mechanical" slot machines with real spinning reels. Well, guess what? Computers run all slot machines just the same and have since the 1970s (analog logic back then). The only difference is the ones with reels, are controlled by stepper motors and told to stop on the sybbols picked when the compuer finished playing that game a few seconds ago. The added randomized "spin time" and non-uniform stopping of the reels is just to please the player. The reels stop exactly where told to by the CPU.

    I hope you don't mean that as a criticism. A slot machine is, after all, an entertainment device. If people are entertained by moving machinery, then it is a good thing that there exist slot machines with wheels in them. I can well understand that such a machine may offer a more complete sensory experience than a CRT, even if it is more limited in some of its capabilities. People like things that they can hold in their hands (or at least believe they could hold in their hands, given access to the innards). People are analog critters. There's a bitmap of a clock face with moving hands in the corner of my screen right now. I say, "Bravo!" to the game designers who put physical interfaces on electronic games. Keep up the good work!

  5. Re:Why use a browser? by NEC9502 · · Score: 1

    My guess is that it isn't just a browser issue, but an App Server one. Remember that this is IBM, selling big iron with Linux. I'd bet that WebSphere will also play a pretty big role in that environment. That opens up a ton of interface possibilities.

  6. Re:Less flight screwups? by Kefabi · · Score: 1

    I'm in korea right now. I took Korea air and I have to tell you they are awesome. Completely put to shame any other US airline I've taken. Check in took all of 10 minutes, FOR AN INTERNATION AL FLIGHT. Flight attendants were very nice, and the food was great (They got an award for their food, something they seem proud of). Anyway, they never had any screw ups, and I doubt they'd switch to Linux if they thought if would create problems. I didn't see any problems that needed fixing in the first place. I swear, they made a 12 hour flight bearable. Anyway, I guess I should be playing StarCraft like many other people in this PC room...

  7. Re:Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No Win2K would not be has good of choice as a Linux system. First, you have to wait for fixes from Microsoft. In a time critical environment waiting on Microsoft is not an option. Second, why do you need a web browser and a gui on a server. Third, a Linux system is hard to crash, unless you misconfigured the kernel if you recompilied it a Linux system will continue running with updates never requiring a restart of the OS. Once I have my Linux systems configured, they are stable has hell.

  8. Already using *nix by sumengen · · Score: 1

    As far as I know, many airline/airport software is already written for unix.
    My friend was an intern in a company about 3-4 years back and they were writing C programs for some kind of unix. The company name was a strange one so I don't remember it. I didn't ask what the unix version was either. So sorry about the undetailed post.

  9. Bad Title... by Netdoctor · · Score: 1
    First time I opened up Slashdot I read:

    Korean Air Missile Crisis Moved on Linus.

    I guess I should get some sleep...

    -Dan

    Too lazy to find a cute sig. Deal with it.

    1. Re:Bad Title... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny. Mod this one up! would you.

  10. Re:IF OPERATING SYSTEMS RAN THE AIRLINES by isorox · · Score: 2, Insightful

    OSX air: you settle into your nice seat, having payed over the odds to get there. You then realise that BSDAir has been giving away seats next to you for free!

  11. Re:Less flight screwups? by mpe · · Score: 2

    Believe it or not, lots of businesses still use some fairly arcane looking text mode interfaces.

    Sometimes even running under some version of Windows or other. But you can't hook up a pile of terminals easily to a Windows machine...

  12. Re:Yay... by mrgoat · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    Huh. Moderators are smoking crack again, that one was funny.

    --

    'Hail Eris, baby, hail Eris...pfffffffttt.' *cough* 'Yeah.'
  13. Good stats, better comeback. by Fat+Casper · · Score: 4, Insightful
    "MRTG under Linux has been very stable. It's worked the way it was supposed to," without outages, said Paul Watkins, Rubbermaid's network analyst.

    Rubbermaid previously outsourced the same function and paid $6,000 per month. Watkins said he spent about 200 hours getting the Linux system up and running, but that it's now "pretty much self-sustaining." Rubbermaid purchased mainframe Linux for $180 from SuSE.

    Rubbermaid's Watkins, a Microsoft-certified systems engineer, said Microsoft officials could talk about their own problems, rather than those of open source code. "Microsoft's NT was a good platform, but it had its share of problems," he said.

    Talk about a feel-good article. KAL isn't really using it for much (What? Daily revenue isn't much?), but to see an airline using it is a really good moral boost. Reading about the other companies meant more to me, though. It's nice to read about actual successes- I read about the technical successes all the time. Hell of a way to start the day.

    --
    I spent a year in Iraq looking for WMD and all I found was this lousy sig.
    1. Re:Good stats, better comeback. by ozbird · · Score: 2

      Is it just me, or does "Rubbermaid" sound like something available for sale at an adult shop?

      Okay, so it's just me...

  14. Re:IF OPERATING SYSTEMS RAN THE AIRLINES by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... even though you notice that the chair is one of those plain wooden ones you used to sit on in school ...

  15. Re:KAL's real problem by Binary+Tree · · Score: 1

    And you know this how? References, please.

  16. Re:Better Linux...NT is code red infected in korea by Clived · · Score: 1

    Excellent point here. I sure wouldn't want my mission critical running on a platform which seems to be bombarded on a weekly basis by trojans, viruses, seemingly unworkable or inflexible security patching procedures (my impression anyway). And look at the cost savings from a strictly cost/benefits point of view.
    My two bits
    --- tired of seeing port 80 scans in my syslog --

    --
    Clive DaSilva Email: clive.dasilva@gmail.com Ubuntu 18.10 Kernel 4.18
  17. Re:Reversing positions by _N0EL · · Score: 1
    ... I could buy Linux an infinite number of times.

    You can already... Linux is free.

    --

    "My mother works for Microsoft now. A whole other cult."

  18. Re:Flight crew scheduling = "Mission critical" ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Keep in mind that mission critical can mean alot. Is scheduling mission critical in order to run the business well, yes. To keep planes in the air, no.

    That being said, while this is a good thing in general, everyone had better hope that this transition goes smoothly. People are always hyper critical over airlines, and with any new large system there are almost always problems. The kicker with things like this is the system it is replacing probably was working fairly well, or if it did have its problems people knew them and were used to dealing with them. Introduce a new system that is probably touted as the new savior and the slightest thing that goes wrong will be over exagerated. And guess who will be the first one to release that info, Microsoft.

  19. Re:Linux in the Air? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Modded down viciously, eh?

    So much for subtle jokes about waddling penguins flying Korean Air with special dietary demands. Humor has to be simple-minded to work here.

  20. Re:Thanks for the warning... by Clived · · Score: 1

    Hmmn,well I might just point out that IBM feels differently and have been extremely successful in deploying Linux on their mainframes, Korean Airlines being a special situation considering the importance (mission critical) of these systems. Lets face it, Linux has moved into big league based on the collective intellect of the open source people who keep improving the kernel, and the corp world has finally realized that. Here is an operating system which has made it into the big league, and no new trojans on a weekly basis, to worry about either.
    My 2 bits

    --
    Clive DaSilva Email: clive.dasilva@gmail.com Ubuntu 18.10 Kernel 4.18
  21. Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Blue Screen or Core Dump, it's all the same.

    A BSOD is more like a kernel panic. It is much more severe than an 'illegal operation' or Core dump. The latter can be 'solved' by an automatic restart of the program. The BSOD must be remedied by a reboot.

    1. Re:Wrong by kz45 · · Score: 0

      I feel just as uneasy that airlines are using Linux, that I would If I found out they were using microsoft products. They should be using their own systems, written from scratch.

    2. Re:Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And another thing... Linux is free to purchase, and doesn't have per-seat licensing (well, nobody I know uses Caldera anyway). Even if you factor in paying for professional third party support for linux (or a BSD), it usually works out cheaper than Win2k (and the support's usually better from the paid third party than MS's crappy support)

    3. Re:Wrong by Steeltoe · · Score: 1

      Win2k would be as good choice as Linux IMHO. I run it now (with Service Pack 2 or something ;*), and it runs beautifully. The only problem I have is that I probably need to upgrade/patch IE too. IE doesn't seem stable out-of-the-box.

      NT on the other hand shouldn't be touched with a long pole for anything critical. I use it at work, and long for the day we'll install Win2k.

      I usually get any OS to crash horribly, due to all the configuration tweaking and installations I usually do. So that I like Win2k along with Linux count for something. I like to think so anyways. Maybe I'm biased, I really didn't expect much from Win2k before I tried it.

      - Steeltoe

    4. Re:Wrong by Tony-A · · Score: 1

      Win2K doesn't run on real systems like S/390.

    5. Re:Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but... and this is not a joke... MS have spent a lot of man-hours ensuring Win2k reboots _very_ quickly - and since they tend to recommend single-purpose installations anyway, an entire system reboot of a single-purpose installation is quite similar to an application restart on a multi-purpose one.

      Yes, that's stupid and inefficient. But that way, MS sell more licenses, since you need one for every single-purpose box - provided admins are too stupid to switch to a unix system (more usually, provided the CTO still wants to play golf with his "buddies" down the country club...)

  22. Re:Can you say h4x0r3d? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fucking everyone else is doing it! And yes THEY are idiots. But that guy wasn't an idiot for saying so. Fsck-wad!

  23. Re:A main frame for 5000 users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You forgot wuftpd and telnet and every other fsking server on linux. Then patch your kernel at least one a week. But wait a week just to you can be sure it won't WIPE OUT YOUR FUCKING FILE SYSTEM! Linux is such a goddam fucked up piece of shit. I can't wait for the articles that follow saying that KAL suffers horribly for this dumbshit descision. As several other companies have already had to do.

  24. Flight crew scheduling = "Mission critical" ? by Bowie+J.+Poag · · Score: 2, Insightful



    A good thing.. Although while I wouldnt elevate a system that pumps out itinieraries for flight crews to the level of "mission critical" (most pilots and flight crews know the times when and where they'll be flying often weeks in advance) its a step in the right direction. It takes projects like this to keep eyeballs focused in the right direction. Has anyone heard anything about what happened to Burlington Coat Factory, after they made the switch? How are they doing now?

    --
    Bowie J. Poag

    1. Re:Flight crew scheduling = "Mission critical" ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interesting that you mention that, because Burlington made another migration from Linux just months ago. Not that we'd expect Slashdot to cover it or anything...

    2. Re:Flight crew scheduling = "Mission critical" ? by amlai · · Score: 1

      Any links on this?

    3. Re:Flight crew scheduling = "Mission critical" ? by Mr.+Stalin · · Score: 1

      When I was in Taipei, a Canadian pilot on the Taichung-Taipei flight flew instead to Peng-hu (a small island between Taiwan and China). No one had told him the flight had been changed because their English was so bad. Of course he had to take the fall and was suspended.

    4. Re:Flight crew scheduling = "Mission critical" ? by Slashbotix · · Score: 0, Troll
      Bowie J. Poag, Slashdot's resident Gay Wiccan butt pirate/Micahel Jackson fan.

      Check out his website here! It's a lot of Gay Wiccan fun!!!

    5. Re:Flight crew scheduling = "Mission critical" ? by Marillion · · Score: 3, Informative

      I work for a large, US regional carrier. Our flight scheduling system is a 24x7 mission critical system. We have a zero downtime service level agreement with our flight operations department for their critical system. All of them use a brand name version of UNIX.
      Sure the planed schedule is done weeks in advance, but that's only half the story. A pilot will fly six flights a day. If that pilot get fogged in Boston and can't do the 11:00am Boston to Cincinnati flight just before he was supposed to do your 1:30pm Cincinnati to Toronto flight, a last minute replacement must be found or your flight gets fouled up. Flight crews a typically scheduled close to the contractual and legal limits. The flight scheduling systems must ensure that during the day, a crew member doesn't exceed those limits due to delays or re-routes.

      --
      This is a boring sig
  25. Re:Less flight screwups? by itsnotme · · Score: 1

    AH yes but at least the ENTIRE system wont go down now will it? compared to a blue screen where you just are tempted to kick the crap out of the computer.. now all you have to do is run the program again, as I said, they'd have to learn what to do with a command prompt!

  26. Here's is little ads that can help by jsse · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Well if we can convince our govenment that the Asains are ahead of us with OS tech, creating a "Linux gap!

    Here you can find some ads and posters that could help you convincing them. :)

    (it's weird that they use WMV format to promote their Linux system, I can't open them....)

    1. Re:Here's is little ads that can help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I love it! Guns 'n Linux. Especially cool is that one with the bayonet - you can just see the penguin on the box :)

  27. Re:IBM Advantadges by LinuxHam · · Score: 2, Insightful

    As an employee of IBM e-business, I am *extremely* glad to see this development. I joined IBM a year ago so I could do exactly that kind of work. Now I'm expecting to start working on a project developing a Linux-based enterprise network supportng an eventual 250,000 wireless webpad users at hundreds of locations.

    In case anyone is wondering, the new mainframes are not the room-sized behemoths of old. If anyone has visited IBM at a recent LinuxWorld Expo, they would have seen one of the new z900's running hundreds or thousands of copies of Linux in a single 19" rack.

    To facilitate learning how to do just this, I managed to track down one of the company's "mainframe-in-a-server" training units. It's called a P390, and it's a standard-sized OS/2 server with a real S/390 chip on an expansion card. I should expect to be able to run about 5 concurrent copies of Linux, however, not thousands :) Although it is cool winning the "toy contest" among my friends by saving the "I have a mainframe at home" for last.

    And finally, IBM is giving out free virtual machines on a mainframe. Visit www.ibm.com/linux for more information.

    --
    Intelligent Life on Earth
  28. OT: As time goes, more airlines will come to Linux by tshak · · Score: 2

    the _users_ AND the _sysadmins_ are just pissed off by this instable and poorly equipped OS (no embedded scripting language, not onboard tools, poor automation)

    I have no opinion as to what OS was best for the arlines, but please let's keep the /. unfactual M$ bashing to a minumum...

    No embedded scripting language: Windows Scripting Host (JScript or VBScript). Coming soon: C#, Perl and Python through .NET.

    No onboard tools: MMC. Yes, MMC was a big resource hog in the DOT OH stages, but it's matured into a very reasonable solution for sysadmins. Plus, if you look at all the new tools (eg VisualStudio and others) coming out from M$, you'll notice that all of the configs (server and workstation) are moving to a standardized XML format which can be edited via script or manually.

    Poor automation: Win2K is almost "over-automated"! There's so many fricken wizards that do stuff for you, that it's easy to get lazy and neglect building more optimized automations. Plus, most automation happens at the application level - "system automation" is generally an OS independant issue.

    --

    There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
  29. Re:Don't forget Amiga Air*... by DGolden · · Score: 2

    Just to let you know, Amiga Inc. actually have a product available again, in conjunction with Tao - it's a language independent VM architecture that can run on x86 among other things, both native and hosted under linux or windows. It's actually pretty well-designed, sortof a cross between what Java or .NET should have been and a unixy system, and has some pretty sweet features (including being a very fast Java environment). It doesn't really have all that much to do with the original Amiga design except for the name, though (and the virtual processor assembly is very similar to the (already quite C-like, with structs and so on) Amiga-style M68k/PPC macro assembly).

    I've actually got the SDK sitting on my desk, so, for once, it's not complete vaporware (unfortunately I've got the windows-hosted version, which is utterly useless to me with my linux-only PC).

    It's also the OS for a product that /is/ currently vapor - a non-apple PPC computer from merlancia. Even without the new Amiga OS, the merlancia box'd be nice, if only to put LinuxPPC on. PPC is so much nicer than x86, it's a shame it's tricky to find anything but apple mobos...

    --
    Choice of masters is not freedom.
  30. The Linux gap! by supabeast! · · Score: 5, Funny

    Remeber in the cold war arms race, when if the Russians had some technology the American government had to have it too (And vice versa.)? Well if we can convince our govenment that the Asains are ahead of us with OS tech, creating a "Linux gap!" Now all we have to do is convince them to move all government systems to Linux, Microsoft be damned!

    Now if only they ever fixed that whole basselope-gap thing...

  31. Re:I Guess... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hi! How are you?
    I send you this file in order to have your advice

  32. At the risk of sounding redundant by DreamSynthesis · · Score: 1


    This is a Good Thing, for a lot of reasons. First, it's a decent-scale commercial deployment of Linux in an industry that isn't typically viewed as "tech" by Joe B. Consumer and Jane D. Executive. Next, it's a good example of making the *right* choice when it comes to stability and security, no matter the industry.

    I've been a Windows developer for years (now reformed, 99% linux dev these days), and I used to work for CompUSA corporate. It was interesting standing around with a bunch of MS marketing execs in meetings in Dallas back then. We used to talk about operating systems, and how they couldn't believe any OS would have pose a significant "threat" to the Windows established customer base.

    Piece by piece, proving 'em wrong ;).

    1. Re:At the risk of sounding redundant by kurt555gs · · Score: 1

      back in the 80's i never thought msdos would have a chance of supplanting CP/M ... and CP/M was good ..... M$ is truely evil

      --
      * Carthago Delenda Est *
  33. Re:I Guess... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Huh? What do you mean? I don't see why this is funny.

  34. KAL's real problem by shri · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    Folks, lets not get excited. Their real problem is preventing their pilots (most of them ex Air Force jocks) from crashing their planes. The seem to bring an airliner down more often than their software.

    1. Re:KAL's real problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The following internal safety audit report into Korean Airlines flying operations was conducted in late 1998 by pilots employed by KAL. The KAL Safety Audit report was allegedly part of a wider program being overseen by Delta Airlines of America. The Delta Audit of KAL was allegedly required by the US Federal Aviation Authority (FAA) and insurance companies in the wake of the Korean Airlines B747 crash at Guam on 06/08/97 (Flt 801) as a precursor to the setting up of a proposed code sharing arrangement between KAL and Delta Airlines."

      "UPDATE 2001: As of January 2001, pilot reports indicate that from an operational point of view things have certainly improved in KAL associated with the fallout of the leaked KAL safety audit listed below and the decision by KAL management to engage Boeing Flight Safety to retrain KAL pilots in basic Cockpit/Crew Resource Management (CRM) techniques. This, coupled with a marked improvement in basic democratic principles within Korea itself provides some hope that the improvements in flight operational standards associated with Boeing Flight Safety's involvement with KAL may become lasting feature within the company. Alex Paterson (20 January 2001)"

      Korean Air Safety Report
  35. Re:Less flight screwups? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The only problem with your comment is that it's totally unfounded. I challenge you to find one flight that's been cancelled because of a BSOD. We don't know why Korean Air switched to Linux, so arguing that the instability of Windows is the moitivation is just a bunch of fud.

  36. A main frame for 5000 users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You have to love that sale!
    Considering 2-4 Dual Proc pentiums could do the same job! (linux OR win2k)

    1. Re:A main frame for 5000 users? by mlafranc · · Score: 1

      Perhaps, but the licence for win2k will leave you bleading from parts elsewhere. Next, you find CodeRed MMXVI wipeing you bios and lighting your monitor on fire.

      Seccondly lets pay attention folks, all these linux worms have pretty simple solutions. For example:

      Step one: Get rid of redhat.
      Step two: Get rid of bind. (or anything else you don't need.

      My box has one open port on it: 22 (SSH2) that's it. Not even discard. Why bother. Lock it down so it won't lock up. OK!

      This rant brought to you by Super Cow Corp.

  37. Re:Less flight screwups? by Wendel+T.+Shaggy · · Score: 1
    I'm pretty sure the check-in people wont know what the heck to do if they saw a command prompt.. "Uhh theres a word.. 'bash' with an pound sign next to it.. whats that mean?"

    Hmmm... I've traveled a lot in Europe (less in the US) and I'll tell you this -- the systems that they have, both at check-in as well as at the travel agencies, are less user-friendly and more arcane than linux. If they can be trained to use the current systems, they can be trained to type checkin_program_start or whatever at the bash prompt.

    Not everyone who doesn't use linux is an idiot.

  38. Why use a browser? by debaere · · Score: 1

    One thing I cannot understand... why would they access the information through a browser? I realize that browsers provide for a cheap interface, but its hardly conducive to real time information needs... not to mention the fact that I have come across no browser that is reliable. The "real time" bit can probaly be done by Java applets... but then if your doing that, why not just crate a stand alone client out of Java. My $0.02

    --

    DOS is dead, and no one cares...
    If there's a Bourne Shell, I'll see you there
  39. Mission Critical by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ask the question : How long does it take to recover after a foul-up - user or software induced, and how many millions of dollars will we loose if we pick the slower one - for each incident. - per minute. IBM quotes a fail rate of once in 60 years, and time to recover in minutes, if not instantly by a hot standby VM switch, plus is immume from email attachments. relative to IIs. The correct business decision (not to use ms) The managers who picked windoze are about to get burnt - XP does not run Java no more. That must hurt - no backwards compatibility, mass upgrades. How many days did these platforms go without a virus fix? 6-8 days. That is unacceptable . Both Sun and IBM offer advantages, until beowulfe setups get perfect.

  40. Re:IF OPERATING SYSTEMS RAN THE AIRLINES by fat_mike · · Score: 1

    That is freakin' classic. I needed a laugh this morning. Thanks.
    fat_mike

  41. Re:Can you say h4x0r3d? by perky · · Score: 1
    err yes, that's right. They're going to connect a multi million dollar piece of hardware running critical systems, and their entire internal network to the internet...

    idiot.

    --
    "The new wave is not value-added; it's garbage-subtracted" - Esther Dyson, Dec 1994
  42. sumtingwong here by layingMantis · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Hey, at least Hemos didn't try to add his little tidbit to the story to make it sound relevant.

  43. Do they have a deal with some Linux company? by General8 · · Score: 0

    I mean it would make sense. If they used Windows they could claim money for losses if Windows crashes under them. The same thing with the software they're using. Why use Linux? They can't claim money from anyone if it fails.

    1. Re:Do they have a deal with some Linux company? by trifixion · · Score: 1

      That's an interesting point, and it's fiscally responsible, but isn't the point to have the program not screw up in the first place? The OS shouldn't crash, especially in a situation where the damage caused would be enough to file a size-able claim.

      -TRiFIXION

  44. There might be many Linux-under-IBM shops by Sara+Chan · · Score: 2
    It's interesting that Korean Air is running Linux on an IBM mainframe. According to this story from The Economist , IBM has been setting up more and more such installations. For instance, Winnebago Industries (a large maker of motor-homes) recently threw out its distributed e-mail system and replaced it with a Linux-on-mainframe version. The story also mentions Korean Air.

    Such installations are very good for customers who already have a mainframe: they save energy, floor space, and staff--and get mainframe-level reliability.

  45. Its allready Here by linuxbert · · Score: 1

    A company called Ubitech, Makes an AFTN Message switch (a system that shuffles flightplans, met data, etc. arround) runs the system on linux

    they sold it through a us company, Litton Denero (yes the same people responsible for the US Navy's NT destroyer)

    installations include singapor, angola, st martin, and a few other countries.

  46. Could they? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm sure MS' EULAs say "we are not responsible for anything that happens" etc etc.

  47. Don't forget Amiga Air*... by phillymjs · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...which went under many years back, though there are still some people sitting at the gate, waiting for a flight out. They loudly proclaim the greatness of Amiga Air to everyone passing by in the terminal, but everyone just ignores them.

    Once in a while another airline takes interest in reviving Amiga Air** and the still-waiting passengers get very excited, but then the other airline's interest wanes, and the Amiga Air passengers remain stuck in the terminal, forever waiting.

    * - Several years back, one of the comp.sys.* Usenet groups had a thread asking people to add to the "If OSes were airlines" post. Nobody chose Amiga up to the point that I discovered the thread, so I did. Many thought my post was funny. I have always wanted to get hold of a copy of it, but I can't seem to track it down on Google Groups. I have attempted to recreate it here. If anyone should stumble across the original, I'd love to know about it.

    ** - This is a reference to Gateway's (it was some major PC manufacturer, anyway, but I'm pretty sure it was Gateway) pondering an acquisition of the Amiga name and and technology and starting to make new, updated Amigas a few years ago. They eventually changed their corporate mind.


    ~Philly

    1. Re:Don't forget Amiga Air*... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "corporate mind"? Surely an oxymoron (which is also what appears to be running the company lately). Funny stuff, Philly.

  48. [OFFTOPIC] by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    your website, System 26, is black on black. It hurts my eyes. I can't read it.

    Too bad, it looked like there might have been something interesting there.

  49. IF OPERATING SYSTEMS RAN THE AIRLINES by megas · · Score: 5, Funny

    Windows Air
    The terminal is pretty and colorful, with friendly stewards, easy baggage check and boarding, and a smooth take-off. After about 10 minutes in the air, the plane explodes with no warning
    whatsoever.

    Windows NT Air
    Just like Windows Air, but costs more, uses much bigger planes, and takes out all the other aircraft within a 40-mile radius when it explodes.

    UNIX Airways
    Everyone brings one piece of the plane along when they come to the airport. They all go out on the runway and put the plane together piece by piece, arguing non-stop about what kind of
    plane they are supposed to be building.

    Air DOS
    Everybody pushes the airplane until it glides, then they jump on and let the plane coast until it hits the ground again. Then they push again, jump on again, and so on ...

    Mac Airlines
    All the stewards, captains, baggage handlers, and ticket agents look and act exactly the same. Every time you ask questions about details, you are gently but firmly told that you don't
    need to know, don't want to know, and everything will be done for you without your ever having to know, so just shut up.

    Linux Air
    Disgruntled employees of all the other OS airlines decide to start their own airline. They build the planes, ticket counters, and pave the runways themselves. They charge a small fee to
    cover the cost of printing the ticket, but you can also download and print the ticket yourself. When you board the plane, you are given a seat, four bolts, a wrench and a copy of the
    seat-HOWTO.html. Once settled, the fully adjustable seat is very comfortable, the plan leaves and arrives on time without a single problem, the in-flight meal is wonderful. You try to
    tell customers of the other airlines about the great trip, but all they can say is, "You had to do WHAT with the seat?"

    1. Re:IF OPERATING SYSTEMS RAN THE AIRLINES by owenc · · Score: 2, Insightful

      . . . and OS X air only runs Concord Supersonic jets, giving way to obscenely overpriced tickets.

  50. Re:Less flight screwups? by fors · · Score: 1

    You set the mainframe up to run multiple instances of the OS and software and enable it to roll over to another instance if the one that you are currently using fails. Quit thinking in PC terms when talking about big iron. We use Alphas in mission critical system and there is never a reason for our system to go down because the software failed. If it does go down someone screwed up with the setup.

    --
    "If there is nothing you are willing to die for, then you are not really alive." Myself
  51. Meanwhile, across the Sea of Japan... by Lothar+0 · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I think somebody else's airports need to switch to our favorite OS too...

    Computer crash delays flights in Japan

    --
    "Anonymous Coward" is for whistleblowers, not unpopular opinions.
    1. Re:Meanwhile, across the Sea of Japan... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FreeBSD?

  52. Less flight screwups? by itsnotme · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    Well at least this way, you wont hear the airline people saying, " Well sir! We're sorry but we had a scheduling screwup because some sort of blue screen came up then the computer just crashed! Honest! Your flight is cancelled! ".. now you'll just hear " Your flight is on time sir! You can board in 5 minutes "

    Ah gotta love them switching over to Linux, maybe now more airlines will see how they can avoid their scheduling computers crashing now.. I've seen too many computers at the check-in desk crashing but on the other hand, I'm pretty sure the check-in people wont know what the heck to do if they saw a command prompt.. "Uhh theres a word.. 'bash' with an pound sign next to it.. whats that mean?"

    I suppose next they'll have to educate the masses on how to use Linux but hey, at least they'll be more reliable now!

    1. Re:Less flight screwups? by D-Flo · · Score: 1
      You know what? Here in the Seattle metropolitan area we have this airport called SeaTac. It is the possibly the worst airport in the universe. It has the lowest on-time rate of any airport in the nation. Not because of boarding computer screw-ups, but because it doesn't have enough runways.

      Unless Linux can somehow lay tarmac, it won't help here.

    2. Re:Less flight screwups? by JanneM · · Score: 3, Funny

      I for one cant think of a darn thing thats as unreliable as windows

      Airline schedules...

      /Janne

      --
      Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
    3. Re:Less flight screwups? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah, this is more likely to have replaced something like QNX (itself an excellent OS, better than Linux in terms of technolgical coolness, at least until someone sticks fast zero-copy message passing primitves into the Linux kernel).

    4. Re:Less flight screwups? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "death-knell" is the expression you're looking for.

    5. Re:Less flight screwups? by mpe · · Score: 2

      To my knowledge, Windows was never used i mission-critical environments.

      You missed the USS Yorktown, "scratch one flattop"...

    6. Re:Less flight screwups? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm... What makes you think they were running windows before ?

      To my knowledge, Windows was never used i mission-critical environments.

    7. Re:Less flight screwups? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      well what else is as unreliable as windows? I for one cant think of a darn thing thats as unreliable as windows

      American Designed/Built Automobiles

      And I'm an American!

    8. Re:Less flight screwups? by Jace+of+Fuse! · · Score: 5, Funny

      at least they'll be more reliable now!

      That statement is totally unfounded. You are assuming the scheduling software will be stable.

      If the schedualing software crashes now, it'll be the same situation as before, but the crash is just going to look different and the OS is still going to be running (though uselessly) under it all.

      Blue Screen or Core Dump, it's all the same.

      Face it, Linux won't save you. Airlines are ALWAYS going to be late and you're all going crash down into a firey death. And that's what this is really about anyway. Your fates. Get over it. You're gator food, pal! You hear me? Sleeping with the fish! Slamming into a hillside! Tailspin! Dead! Just like the others!

      --

      "Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"

      Moderation Totals: Wrong=2, Stupid=3, Total=5.
    9. Re:Less flight screwups? by itsnotme · · Score: 1

      well what else is as unreliable as windows? I for one cant think of a darn thing thats as unreliable as windows

    10. Re:Less flight screwups? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Koreans are thieves and cheap bastards - it has nothing to with them thinking that Linux will cause no problems, they just got caught pirating windows and had to change before they were fined.

    11. Re:Less flight screwups? by ninjaz · · Score: 2
      That statement is totally unfounded. You are assuming the scheduling software will be stable.

      If the schedualing software crashes now, it'll be the same situation as before, but the crash is just going to look different and the OS is still going to be running (though uselessly) under it all.

      while true
      do
      /usr/local/bin/KAschedule
      sleep 10
      done

      That's what I use for especially buggy software that randomly crashes, but needs to be available. Maybe a few tweaks to clean up any mess left over by the process that died, but this kind of script does the trick w/o needing any real use education other than "if it crashes, wait 15-20 seconds for a new one to open".

    12. Re:Less flight screwups? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is true to a point but with a working Unix/Linux system underneath you have options. Netscape has a watchdog in memory keep the services going. Sometimes even the watchdog would have a problem so a simple perl script watches things. It is much easier to maintain the integrity of a service if the OS does not go down underneath it.

    13. Re:Less flight screwups? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, that's pretty much the case.

      It wasn't about reliability, it was about cost.

      But then again, isn't it always about cost? That will be Microsoft's death-nail more so than instability.

    14. Re:Less flight screwups? by nmos · · Score: 1

      Believe it or not, lots of businesses still use some fairly arcane looking text mode interfaces. I've actually seen accountants typing in printer1=lpt2 followed by a few print paramaters because the laser printer was out of toner or whatever. People really can learn if they feel they need to.

  53. Reversing positions by cgenman · · Score: 1

    "When asked about Mundie's warning of the risks associated with Linux, Laudati said: 'I'm not sure what he meant. Linux goes through a lot of testing before we use it.'"

    If I had a dime for every occasion I've uttered similar words at a Microsoft press release, I could buy Linux an infinite number of times.

  54. Missing the point by xsteinberger · · Score: 1

    i think many of you are missing the point. this article outlines linux being used in a high-profile mission-critical situation, and does not imply in any way the reason for doing so being due to ms os instability. no doubt an airline would have properly configured systems, adequate backups and work-arounds, should their tasks be 'mission critical'. from what i understood from the article, korean airlines has switched to linux to help online flight information services, which may be due to better perfomance in this particular situation with linux over other operating systems, including the unixes and windows, and/or more cost effective, or one of the other hundred reasons to choose between o/s.

    1. Re:Missing the point by RWC09 · · Score: 1

      You would expect the same from Microsoft too but recent messages show this is not true! Never assume anything ... you know the rest!

      --
      -->If Linux was written by Bill Gates & Co. - no one would want to switch !!
  55. More SLOT MACHINES running linux too! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
    It's not reported much because gaming manufacturing is a small industry, but most regulators such as the Nevada Gaming Control Board, require full source code of any gaming device submitted for approvel. This pretty much leaves anything Microsoft out in the cold as there's no way to prove that a closed black box like windows isn't capable of cheating or skewing the odds, or able to be manipulated by the player somehow to cheat.

    Until recently, this requirement has kept code in gaming devices to at most a few hundred kilobytes of custom written code. Since the rise of Linux, gaming devices have finally been able to CHEAPLY gain much more functionality. And the regulatory bodies love the stability and open nature of Linux.

    I should know. I write code for slots/poker/keno/etc. machines here in Las Vegas which are shipped worldwide. If you've ever gambled here or anywhere (indian casino, cruise ship, etc.), you've probably used my code, not knowing that it was Linux under there!

    1. Re:More SLOT MACHINES running linux too! by MrCreosote · · Score: 1

      Saw an article not too long ago about the increase in gang violence in France related to 'stacked' gaming machines. In France, like probably everywhere else, legal gaming machines must pay out at least 85% in winnings. Organised crime have machines which payout around 50%, which they supply to hotels and clubs to keep in the back room, and everyone takes their cut. This is now so lucrative that quite a few gang bosses have been murdered in turf wars over these machines. The police investigating the murder of one high level gang boss have not solved it in over a year, because all their main supects keep getting bumped off by rival gangs.

      --
      MrCreosote Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump! "You're right! There isn't enough room to swing a cat in here!"
    2. Re:More SLOT MACHINES running linux too! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative
      if you are posting as AC, you could at least give us a juicy tidbit on how to win money with those things. like hold this button and then pull the lever at such and such a rate and then you'll get lucky sevens more often. sheesh, the quality of ac info nowadays is goin down the drain...

      Everyone says this. But as I'm sure you know that doing anything STUPID like puting in s3cr33t c0d3z can get you busted and fuck up your life for the next 20 years (and actually longer since you will be banned for life from working in the gaming industry ever again), I'm certainly not going to risk that.

      The games are truly random... well, as random as the random number generator, which does have to meet certain statistical requirements laid out by the control board. rand() will not cut it. They even worry about things like rand() % 10 favoring 0 thru 7 slightly more than 8 and 9 (assuming rand() returns 0-32767). The approved RNG is really fucking complicated, and relies on many unpredictable realtime events, such as network events, the time in microseconds when coins drop or when buttons are pressed.

      And while a slot machine may not be a "mission critical" system, it certainly is considered a "financially critical" one by the people who buy our machines. Which is why Linux is ganing favor here.

      Slot machine Trivia! Many people say they don't like slot machines with "virtual reels" displayed on a computer screen because "that computer thing can cheat". They say they prefer the "mechanical" slot machines with real spinning reels. Well, guess what? Computers run all slot machines just the same and have since the 1970s (analog logic back then). The only difference is the ones with reels, are controlled by stepper motors and told to stop on the sybbols picked when the compuer finished playing that game a few seconds ago. The added randomized "spin time" and non-uniform stopping of the reels is just to please the player. The reels stop exactly where told to by the CPU.

  56. Re:Hello McFly... by AndroidCat · · Score: 1

    First koala bear that says "I hate Quantum" gets it in the tits!

    (Quantas/Rocky Horror ref)

    --
    One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
  57. IBM Advantadges by Alien54 · · Score: 2
    This is likely the result of the advantadges of having Linux being supported/marketed by IBM. I can see it as part of an IBM marketing solution. Because of this, I can see IBM putting the whole package though vigourous QA.

    Not so suddenly, the words of warning from MS are appearing more and more feable.

    --
    "It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
    1. Re:IBM Advantadges by Swaffs · · Score: 1

      Excellent point. We all know that managers and the like are queasy about buying into a free OS without having some company selling it and backing it up. This support from a well known company like IBM could really make a difference.

      --

      --
      "Karma can only be portioned out by the cosmos." - Homer Simpson [1F10]

  58. Re:Thanks for the warning... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh no! Speak ill of Linux and you're a troll! No sir, there's no sense in using the right tool for the job...

  59. Mod above as funny by TrollMaster5000 · · Score: 0

    Mod the above as funny. :)

  60. Re:Yay... by TrollMaster5000 · · Score: 0

    And running it on a plane would take up too much gas. :)

  61. Re:As time goes, more airlines will come to Linux. by kz45 · · Score: 0

    At least a dozen Linux boxes has been involved in your journey, whatever the airline... And mainframes with Linux are a big part of it.


    if this is going to be the case, I will be flying a lot less. From the experience that I have had with linux, most airplanes would be crashing to the ground within a few hours. (the same for MS). Linux isn't a mature enough OS to be used for airlines. I would rather they be using something In House.

  62. Re:Hello McFly... by AndroidCat · · Score: 1

    Well duh! Anything not a marsupial in Australia is either a Funnel-web or rabbit, or a human or a sheep. Koala "bears" are stoned on the leaves they eat, and will shit on you if you pick them up. And that about says it all.

    Did you know that we have marsupials here in north america? Possums and maybe racoons. (I nominate them for Sapien Next if we bite the big one.) Dogs: a mile high statue of Elvis. Cats: A meter high statue of Elvis ("Yah, so?").

    --
    One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
  63. Re:As time goes, more airlines will come to Linux. by DCMonkey · · Score: 2, Funny
    Windows NT just _starts_ to replace those sets, but the _users_ AND the _sysadmins_ are just pissed off by this instable and poorly equipped OS (no embedded scripting language, not onboard tools, poor automation)

    So that's why the ticket desk clerk does all that typing! They're writing shell scripts!

    --
    DCMonkey
  64. Re:Hello McFly... by MrCreosote · · Score: 1

    1. They are not bears. They are marsupials.

    2. It's Qantas - it's an acronym for Queensland A Northern Territory Aerial Services.

    --
    MrCreosote Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump! "You're right! There isn't enough room to swing a cat in here!"
  65. Re:Hello McFly... by MrCreosote · · Score: 1

    make that 'Queensland And Northern...'

    --
    MrCreosote Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump! "You're right! There isn't enough room to swing a cat in here!"
  66. Just as well... by Goldberg's+Pants · · Score: 0, Flamebait
    If they were running air traffic control systems on Microsoft, Code Red could cause a Code Red...

    One would hope any system where lives are at stake would switch to using Linux. Does anyone know of any lives lost due to a computer screw up caused by Microsoft software?

    1. Re:Just as well... by snake_dad · · Score: 2
      Lives at stake? Come on, it's flight scheduling and accounting they are talking about. The only live at stake is that of de desk ladies at the airport when a flight is canceled...

      --
      karma capped .sig seeking available Slashdot poster for long-term relationship.
    2. Re:Just as well... by Goldberg's+Pants · · Score: 1

      Notice the use of the word IF in my post you fuckhead.

  67. Burlington Coat Factory by Proud+Geek · · Score: 2
    No idea how they're doing, but it looks like they're still using linux. From the "employment" section of their website:

    POSITION: Store Systems Development QUALIFICATIONS : 3+ years experience , Java Linux/Unix , C, JDBC/Oracle

    Looks like they're doing all their backend development in Java, and Linux is just a common and low cost platform to run it on.

    --

    Even Slashdot wants to hide some things

  68. Re:I Guess... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Welcome to http://www.worm.com !

  69. Can you say h4x0r3d? by ehintz · · Score: 1

    Based on the number of L10n and r4m3n worms originating in Korea and hammering my firewall, if this thing is connected to the net they're likely to get nailed. Seems like there's a lot of unsecured machines in .kr and .cn.

    --
    ehintz
  70. Yeah.. if i were to set up by FordImperfect · · Score: 1

    ... a mission critical system, i wouldn't want all those random internet worms invading and generally screwing up stuff here and there... would i?

  71. As time goes, more airlines will come to Linux... by Uzull · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Airlines had started very early with IT (1950's !) and think big (averge : 50000 sets worlwide, even in deepest New Guinea). And the two big points are stability and cost !

    Until recently, they were big mainframe users, because of stability and cost efficience. When the world got rid of the dumb terminals, airlines very relunctantly moved to PC's, but still connected to the mainframe. And they sticked to OS/2 because of its stability... And they still use it ! Windows NT just _starts_ to replace those sets, but the _users_ AND the _sysadmins_ are just pissed off by this instable and poorly equipped OS (no embedded scripting language, not onboard tools, poor automation) ! But the managers love it because it is full of colours, and the M$ marketing brochures are so shiny.

    Those days wont last.
    Linux based solution emerge everywhere in the airline industry. It is stable and very cost efficient. And with those cash problems that all the airlines are facing, the calculation is very simple (Linux CD for 1000 PC's = 20 USD, 1000 Licenses for Windows = well above 50000 USD). So the change is there and more coming. Within the next 2 or 3 years, just think when you are airborne : At least a dozen Linux boxes has been involved in your journey, whatever the airline... And mainframes with Linux are a big part of it.

  72. one word: deployment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    one word: deployment

  73. and what about the MiGs ? by dario_moreno · · Score: 1

    we all know that Linux is more difficult to crash than NT, but I wonder if the korean planes will now resist better than back in the 80's when attacked by MiGs....

    --
    Google passes Turing test : see my journal
  74. Better Linux...NT is code red infected in korea!! by synsent · · Score: 1

    I think they decided to use linux because 50% of all NT and win2k servers in Korea are Code RedII infected ;-)

  75. Technical aspects of the out-going MS code base by mugamba · · Score: 1

    For the greater education need of the "masses," I would have preferred less ambitious talk in the article and more details about what they were moving away *from*. I know that MS was out there pushing very hard for their DataCenter implementation, but I know Sun was out there as well. The community has to get behind these wins big time, so others will consider it for their mid size needs as well, where Sun & Oracle make their killings.

  76. Don't forget.. by Inoshiro · · Score: 2

    This has been a long time coming, as Newsforge reported on this a month ago :)

    --
    --
    Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
  77. MOD UP by etymxris · · Score: 1

    You don't see cool info like this every day.

  78. Hello McFly... by AndroidCat · · Score: 1

    And how did the flight crews know weeks in advance where and when they'd be flying? How did the airline know that they'd have a plane there (properly maintained--with a zillion things on their own check/replace/fix schedule), fueled and ready to go?

    Hell, if I'd known that crew and planes weren't mission critical, I'd have started my own airline years ago! Mmm, Quantum Airlines. "You might already be there, with a live/dead cat."

    --
    One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    1. Re:Hello McFly... by MrCreosote · · Score: 1

      Since I actually live here, I guess I know a little more about our native fauna than you probably do (which appears to be solely based on 'Survivor 2'). They are called 'koalas', in the same way lions are not called 'lion cats' - or do you call them 'lion dogs'? Frankly, I would probably shit on you too, if you picked me up.

      Racoon is not a marsupial - as members of the Procyonidae family, their closest relatives are the ringtails, coatis and coatimundis. (racoon.com) The opossum is the only marsupial native to North America

      --
      MrCreosote Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump! "You're right! There isn't enough room to swing a cat in here!"
  79. Re:I Guess... by Tony-A · · Score: 1

    Even if everybody get patched for Code Red, I'm sure there are plenty more holes waiting for discovery.

  80. I Guess... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    I guess they got fedup being owned by Chinese :-)

  81. Thanks for the warning... by SumDeusExMachina · · Score: 0, Troll
    ...because this has convinced me to never take a Korean Air flight.

    I mean, sure, Linux is great for messing around with or running small to mid-sized servers and for rendering farms, due to the fact that it runs fast on commodity hardware, but would you really trust it to run the airline systems?

    I really don't trust Linux as far as stability goes. Sure, it beats the hell out of the stability of something like Windows NT, but there are (and have been for a while) commercially developed systems that were designed soley for reliability (QNX and OS/390 come to mind). While you may have philosophical objections to commercial software (it costs money), you can't deny that there it is nevertheless much more stable and reliable due to it's purpose-built nature. We are talking about systems that just don't have downtime. Period. Linux just doesn't quite live up to that task yet.

    --

    Is your company running tools written by ma