BTW if you google "PC" on Apple's site (the same link I gave 2 or 3 posts above) you'll see that almost every instance, not only in their marketing pages but also in most of their semi-technical content, refers to Wintel. Yet they once took pride in how much they helped forward the progress of the PC. That's what I was getting at.
Call it Humpty Dumptyism all you want. But no reputable, unbiased computer scientist will agree that a device that can only run Apple-approved software without violating the maker's TOS is a personal computer. Or can you cite one such reputable statement?
The three apps I mentioned are great free, open-source apps. And since they are open-source, porting them just involves recompiling and some minor tweaking and yes, the exact same apps do exist on pretty much every personal computer that has the power to run them, and can be easily be ported to the few PC platforms that don't have them yet. They are available for different OS's and CPU architectures, and that didn't involve major efforts. On the iPad they don't exist and will probably never exist while Apple keeps managing the available app set and closing their OS. For really eloquent arguments, read this Open Office developer's statement. Remote Desktop or cloud solutions are not suitable for many "on-the-go" situations (good luck with 3G reception... and just forget about it on a plane and prohibitively expensive abroad) and only for the most basic tasks when some lag is tolerable.
Of course, proprietary PC applications are another scenario that's not so open, but for very different reasons. E.g. Final Cut Pro is Mac-only and the latest Visual Studio is Wintel-only; but that's only because their developers targeted only the kind of PC which they thought made business sense, not because other platforms imposed review processes that raped their freedom or run on extremely closed OS's.
And give me the equivalent of the iPad YouTube app, the iPad photo app, the various multitouch games, Keynote, etc., on the PC. It's absurd to state that if you can't get the exact same app (same price, same exact features, etc.) that one computer isn't a PC while the other one is.
Don't have the time to research if they exist. But they can be made - and this doesn't go the other way, i.e. you can't port any PC app into an iPad even if the iPad has enough power to handle it.
I don't get into how clumsy it would be to do those tasks on an iPad because that's indeed a matter of input devices, which vary across the PC universe.
Yeah, if only the iPad supported external keyboards. I mean, there's the keyboard dock, bluetooth keyboards, and USB keyboards, but it doesn't support PS/2 keyboards, so it's not a PC!
Or even more absurdity of your line of reasoning, Apple ]['s, Amigas, DOS computers, etc., aren't PCs? Or what about a Linux PC without X11 installed. Is that then not a PC?
You got me wrong, and I agree all those machines are PC's. You see, if you read carefully, I don't get into how clumsy it would be to do those tasks on an iPad because that's indeed a matter of input devices, which vary across the PC universe that was exactly what I meant, I wasn't trying to make some sort of convoluted point by stating the opposite from what I think.
By the way, do you spot the only thing that all those platforms you mentioned have in common (besides being computing devices)? That, unlike the iPad, they can run software not previously approved by some watchdog. You actually reinforced my point.
I am not totally convinced on the legality of jailbreaking. It wasn't me who brought up that issue, and I just brush it aside because it isn't worth discussing it. The fact that it's necessary to jailbreak the device to run arbitrary code on it crushes the developer's freedom.
If my words about Apple aren't exactly praising, don't take it as an attack or flamebait. I dislike the Apple of today for its policies, and it shows. But I have nothing against its consumers, employees or even management including Steve Jobs - I know good people can be in an evil corporation and even take part in running it. I do suggest all fellow developers to avoid iDevices at all cost because such purchases encourage Apple's tyrannical, tight-fisted policies toward programmers. Still I do not consider any developer a bad person just for getting one.
Easy mate, ad-hominem attacks don't help your case.
An iPad is not a personal computer because it doesn't run software that didn't get approved by a watchdog. That's a very basic requirement for a personal computer.
Give me the iPad equivalents of Avidemux, Open Office Impress and Eclipse. Equivalents not only in functionality but also in price (zero) and in not requiring approval by a watchdog. Don't tell me I am playing with words here. Equivalent is pretty unambiguous.
I don't get into how clumsy it would be to do those tasks on an iPad because that's indeed a matter of input devices, which vary across the PC universe.
"Apple ignited the personal computer revolution with the Apple II, then reinvented the personal computer with the Macintosh."
Yet they piss on the personal computer world with their spiteful, denigrating, elitist marketing. What a lovely corporation they are these days, bless their cotton socks.
Yeah jailbreaking not illegal. Whatever. That's not even the main issue with it. There shouldn't be a need to jailbreak at all. Apple's approval requirement is an evil policy that enslaves programmers and puts some of the best developers off iDevices altogether. By buying an iWhatever you add to Apple's revenue and encourage them to stick to that policy even if you jailbreak the thing.
Fact is, you can install any open HTML5 application to local storage on any Apple device
So your answer to Apple crippling their devices is HTML5. Now THAT is hilarious. What, the future of consumer development is interpreted code with no strong types? Must suck to be in that market then.
There are little kids who are iPhone developers
25 years ago there were little kids who developed in BASIC (such as myself). Doesn't mean it isn't a crappy language.
Subjectively, an iPad is not a PC because not even Apple calls it a PC. Objectively, an iPad is not a PC because it can't do everything a PC does. I put so much emphasis on the "PC" term because my original post was in reply to a post that essentially equated a PC and an iPad.
it gets you from point a to point b.
Sure, as long as you only drive Apple-approved routes. Oh, and forget about replacing the radio/speakers it came with. Or jailbreak and have fun driving your uninsured car - (jailbreaking voids your warranty)
Heck, Apple are the ones playing with semantics as they usually avoid sticking the "PC" label to anything but Wintel
They're just using the common parlance. People call what used to be IBM compatible PCs just PCs these days, and since the ads are aimed at people...
Let me go back to the post I initially replied to...
Netbooks are great for people who want to throw a small pc in a bag and have access to the net, type emails etc on the go.
Correct.
iPads are great for people who want to throw a small pc in a bag and have access to the net, type emails etc on the go.
Sounds pretty accurate too.
My point is you just can't equate a PC and an iPad like that. If it can't do everything a PC can, then it's not a PC. Period. By any
definition a PC can do much more than "access to the net, type emails etc", including things an iPad can't do. Maybe that's all you need to do on the go. But I may want
to tidy up and debug my code; somebody else might want to do some lightweight video cutting or finish off a.ppt. And no, that's not far-fetched
depending on what you mean by "on the go". That can mean riding the metro but also waiting hours in an airport, flying from London to Shanghai, etc.
- or Linux/Intel, to a much lesser extent.
By "lesser extent", you surely mean "not at all". The ads are aimed squarely at Windows PCs.
Not that it matters, but as a funny side note, judging by some of Apple's site content, it looks like they finally admitted a Mac
desktop is also a PC ("Why your next PC should be a Mac").
And the question whether jailbreaking is legal or not is in a murky state of the law as agrif explained.
Not murky at all. Unless you have an example of someone going to jail for jailbreaking? Or even a logical explanation for how the process involves the DMCA at all in the first place?
Not illegal as in punishable, but against Apple's policy and voids your warranty. If you don't mind that, fine.
I am not able to legally install whatever software I want to and use its computing abilities to its fullest just because their manufacturer decided to intentionally cripple it.
Regardless, you're playing semantics.
Heck, Apple are the ones playing with semantics as they usually avoid sticking the "PC" label to anything but Wintel - or Linux/Intel, to a much lesser extent. And the question whether jailbreaking is legal or not is in a murky state of the law as agrif explained.
So nothing. I wish you lots of joy with your iPad if you got/are planning to get one. I just don't think a sentence like iPads are great for people who want to throw a small pc in a bag makes sense.
Expect an iPad is not a "small pc", not even by the "I-am-a-Mac(not-a-PC)" standard set by those ridiculous Apple Ads.
I don't consider a machine a PC (Personal Computer) if I don't really own it, i.e. if I am not able to legally install whatever software I want to and use its computing abilities to its fullest just because their manufacturer decided to intentionally cripple it.
I used to think like that, but the worst thing about facebook privacy is not what you disclose about yourself (which after all is what you choose to disclose and nothing more), but what others publish about you.
Here is some news for you: even if you don't have an account, you are probably already on facebook. Unless you live in a cave or avoid social life at all costs, chances are someone already uploaded a picture with you. It's preferable to have an account so you'll usually (though not always...) get to see those photos, comment on them, etc. That's the only reason why I signed up in the first place.
Another downside of the sugar found in cakes, cookies and other processed foods is how it coats the teeth and damages them badly.
As to GP's statement
wheat is generally not good for you
[citation needed]
Wheat, other cereals such as rice and other foods rich in slow-absorption carbs are very healthy and successful at suppressing appetite for long periods.
And speaking as someone who has run a few marathons, I can attest they are an excellent (I would say indispensable) source of energy for endurance sport.
The addiction is in heavily processed foods that are "artificially" good tasting - usually this means high fat + high amounts of carbs, or really bad fats (especially trans fats) even with low amounts of carbs.
As to the carbs, it's a really broad group. When assessing how healthy they are, you just can't lump together refined sugar (bad), sugar naturally occurring in fruit (good), and slow-absorption carbs (such as those in pasta; generally good, and essential to endurance athletes, though you must be careful not to overeat).
I agree many people indeed use it as a display of vanity or to attract attention. And you don't need facebook to improve a "friendship" or to stay friends. Some of my best friends are not on facebook, or not connected.
What I find really useful in facebook is its search function, as it allows you to e.g. reconnect with people who graduated in the same year at the same school/college as you.
The photo sharing abilities are not all that great (poor resolution, cumbersome interface to restrict visibility).
Also, the courts are granting one of the masterminds leniency in exchange for prosecuting their underlings? Isn't that the opposite of how it works? Reducing the sentence of a drug kingpin in exchange for testimony against 2 of his street dealers, really?
If the kingpin gets caught before the street dealers, why not?
I don't think this will make much of a difference as the videos in Wikipedia will probably be of little value. Like almost every Internet user I often get a Wikipedia article when searching for something. The things I find useful in it are the external links and to a lesser extent, the text and images in the articles. But most OGG samples are rarely worth checking out. The same probably goes for their Theora videos. It's just not easy to produce or find informative and encyclopedic audios or videos that can be made available under Creative Commons. The text found in copyrighted sources can be reworded to present only the facts, which can't be copyrighted. But you can't do the same with audiovisual material.
These people's wealth fluctuates a lot because it depends on the value of the stock they hold. The top spots can shift quickly. The Forbes ranking is often taken as a reference but it's just a rough estimate.
Slashdot Mirror
I don't live in the US. Isn't it perfectly possible to buy an unlocked iPhone there and use it on whatever network the phone supports...? Wow
..."PC" on Apple's site in almost every instance refers to Wintel....
... and not in a positive light, which is important and I forgot to mention.
BTW if you google "PC" on Apple's site (the same link I gave 2 or 3 posts above) you'll see that almost every instance, not only in their marketing pages but also in most of their semi-technical content, refers to Wintel. Yet they once took pride in how much they helped forward the progress of the PC. That's what I was getting at.
Call it Humpty Dumptyism all you want. But no reputable, unbiased computer scientist will agree that a device that can only run Apple-approved software without violating the maker's TOS is a personal computer. Or can you cite one such reputable statement?
The three apps I mentioned are great free, open-source apps. And since they are open-source, porting them just involves recompiling and some minor tweaking and yes, the exact same apps do exist on pretty much every personal computer that has the power to run them, and can be easily be ported to the few PC platforms that don't have them yet. They are available for different OS's and CPU architectures, and that didn't involve major efforts. On the iPad they don't exist and will probably never exist while Apple keeps managing the available app set and closing their OS. For really eloquent arguments, read this Open Office developer's statement. Remote Desktop or cloud solutions are not suitable for many "on-the-go" situations (good luck with 3G reception... and just forget about it on a plane and prohibitively expensive abroad) and only for the most basic tasks when some lag is tolerable.
Of course, proprietary PC applications are another scenario that's not so open, but for very different reasons. E.g. Final Cut Pro is Mac-only and the latest Visual Studio is Wintel-only; but that's only because their developers targeted only the kind of PC which they thought made business sense, not because other platforms imposed review processes that raped their freedom or run on extremely closed OS's.
And give me the equivalent of the iPad YouTube app, the iPad photo app, the various multitouch games, Keynote, etc., on the PC. It's absurd to state that if you can't get the exact same app (same price, same exact features, etc.) that one computer isn't a PC while the other one is.
Don't have the time to research if they exist. But they can be made - and this doesn't go the other way, i.e. you can't port any PC app into an iPad even if the iPad has enough power to handle it.
I don't get into how clumsy it would be to do those tasks on an iPad because that's indeed a matter of input devices, which vary across the PC universe.
Yeah, if only the iPad supported external keyboards. I mean, there's the keyboard dock, bluetooth keyboards, and USB keyboards, but it doesn't support PS/2 keyboards, so it's not a PC! Or even more absurdity of your line of reasoning, Apple ]['s, Amigas, DOS computers, etc., aren't PCs? Or what about a Linux PC without X11 installed. Is that then not a PC?
You got me wrong, and I agree all those machines are PC's. You see, if you read carefully, I don't get into how clumsy it would be to do those tasks on an iPad because that's indeed a matter of input devices, which vary across the PC universe that was exactly what I meant, I wasn't trying to make some sort of convoluted point by stating the opposite from what I think.
By the way, do you spot the only thing that all those platforms you mentioned have in common (besides being computing devices)? That, unlike the iPad, they can run software not previously approved by some watchdog. You actually reinforced my point.
I am not totally convinced on the legality of jailbreaking. It wasn't me who brought up that issue, and I just brush it aside because it isn't worth discussing it. The fact that it's necessary to jailbreak the device to run arbitrary code on it crushes the developer's freedom.
If my words about Apple aren't exactly praising, don't take it as an attack or flamebait. I dislike the Apple of today for its policies, and it shows. But I have nothing against its consumers, employees or even management including Steve Jobs - I know good people can be in an evil corporation and even take part in running it. I do suggest all fellow developers to avoid iDevices at all cost because such purchases encourage Apple's tyrannical, tight-fisted policies toward programmers. Still I do not consider any developer a bad person just for getting one.
Easy mate, ad-hominem attacks don't help your case.
An iPad is not a personal computer because it doesn't run software that didn't get approved by a watchdog. That's a very basic requirement for a personal computer.
Give me the iPad equivalents of Avidemux, Open Office Impress and Eclipse. Equivalents not only in functionality but also in price (zero) and in not requiring approval by a watchdog. Don't tell me I am playing with words here. Equivalent is pretty unambiguous.
I don't get into how clumsy it would be to do those tasks on an iPad because that's indeed a matter of input devices, which vary across the PC universe.
"Apple ignited the personal computer revolution with the Apple II, then reinvented the personal computer with the Macintosh." Yet they piss on the personal computer world with their spiteful, denigrating, elitist marketing. What a lovely corporation they are these days, bless their cotton socks.
Yeah jailbreaking not illegal. Whatever. That's not even the main issue with it. There shouldn't be a need to jailbreak at all. Apple's approval requirement is an evil policy that enslaves programmers and puts some of the best developers off iDevices altogether. By buying an iWhatever you add to Apple's revenue and encourage them to stick to that policy even if you jailbreak the thing.
Fact is, you can install any open HTML5 application to local storage on any Apple device
So your answer to Apple crippling their devices is HTML5. Now THAT is hilarious. What, the future of consumer development is interpreted code with no strong types? Must suck to be in that market then.
There are little kids who are iPhone developers
25 years ago there were little kids who developed in BASIC (such as myself). Doesn't mean it isn't a crappy language.
But we're just dancing around the term "pc".
Subjectively, an iPad is not a PC because not even Apple calls it a PC. Objectively, an iPad is not a PC because it can't do everything a PC does. I put so much emphasis on the "PC" term because my original post was in reply to a post that essentially equated a PC and an iPad.
it gets you from point a to point b.
Sure, as long as you only drive Apple-approved routes. Oh, and forget about replacing the radio/speakers it came with. Or jailbreak and have fun driving your uninsured car - (jailbreaking voids your warranty)
Heck, Apple are the ones playing with semantics as they usually avoid sticking the "PC" label to anything but Wintel
They're just using the common parlance. People call what used to be IBM compatible PCs just PCs these days, and since the ads are aimed at people...
Let me go back to the post I initially replied to...
Netbooks are great for people who want to throw a small pc in a bag and have access to the net, type emails etc on the go.
Correct.
iPads are great for people who want to throw a small pc in a bag and have access to the net, type emails etc on the go. Sounds pretty accurate too.
My point is you just can't equate a PC and an iPad like that. If it can't do everything a PC can, then it's not a PC. Period. By any definition a PC can do much more than "access to the net, type emails etc", including things an iPad can't do. Maybe that's all you need to do on the go. But I may want to tidy up and debug my code; somebody else might want to do some lightweight video cutting or finish off a .ppt. And no, that's not far-fetched
depending on what you mean by "on the go". That can mean riding the metro but also waiting hours in an airport, flying from London to Shanghai, etc.
- or Linux/Intel, to a much lesser extent.
By "lesser extent", you surely mean "not at all". The ads are aimed squarely at Windows PCs.
Not that it matters, but as a funny side note, judging by some of Apple's site content, it looks like they finally admitted a Mac desktop is also a PC ("Why your next PC should be a Mac").
And the question whether jailbreaking is legal or not is in a murky state of the law as agrif explained.
Not murky at all. Unless you have an example of someone going to jail for jailbreaking? Or even a logical explanation for how the process involves the DMCA at all in the first place?
Not illegal as in punishable, but against Apple's policy and voids your warranty. If you don't mind that, fine.
I am not able to legally install whatever software I want to and use its computing abilities to its fullest just because their manufacturer decided to intentionally cripple it.
Regardless, you're playing semantics.
Heck, Apple are the ones playing with semantics as they usually avoid sticking the "PC" label to anything but Wintel - or Linux/Intel, to a much lesser extent. And the question whether jailbreaking is legal or not is in a murky state of the law as agrif explained.
So nothing. I wish you lots of joy with your iPad if you got/are planning to get one. I just don't think a sentence like iPads are great for people who want to throw a small pc in a bag makes sense.
Expect an iPad is not a "small pc", not even by the "I-am-a-Mac(not-a-PC)" standard set by those ridiculous Apple Ads. I don't consider a machine a PC (Personal Computer) if I don't really own it, i.e. if I am not able to legally install whatever software I want to and use its computing abilities to its fullest just because their manufacturer decided to intentionally cripple it.
Ibpossible.
I bean, It's just ibpossible to bistype an "b" as a "b".
Or did they use google to place the transaction?
Considering recent Jobs' statements on Apple's moral responsibility, there's some objectionable stuff on Street View.
I used to think like that, but the worst thing about facebook privacy is not what you disclose about yourself (which after all is what you choose to disclose and nothing more), but what others publish about you. Here is some news for you: even if you don't have an account, you are probably already on facebook. Unless you live in a cave or avoid social life at all costs, chances are someone already uploaded a picture with you. It's preferable to have an account so you'll usually (though not always...) get to see those photos, comment on them, etc. That's the only reason why I signed up in the first place.
Yes, ./ is full of geeks, but Full Text Search is a task best left to computers for now.
Very practical, but beware the consequences.
Great point.
Another downside of the sugar found in cakes, cookies and other processed foods is how it coats the teeth and damages them badly.
As to GP's statement
wheat is generally not good for you
[citation needed]
Wheat, other cereals such as rice and other foods rich in slow-absorption carbs are very healthy and successful at suppressing appetite for long periods.
And speaking as someone who has run a few marathons, I can attest they are an excellent (I would say indispensable) source of energy for endurance sport.
The addiction is in heavily processed foods that are "artificially" good tasting - usually this means high fat + high amounts of carbs, or really bad fats (especially trans fats) even with low amounts of carbs. As to the carbs, it's a really broad group. When assessing how healthy they are, you just can't lump together refined sugar (bad), sugar naturally occurring in fruit (good), and slow-absorption carbs (such as those in pasta; generally good, and essential to endurance athletes, though you must be careful not to overeat).
Who is Otheros? Any pics of her? I didn't know Sony was in *that* business. That service is only available in Nevada, right?
I agree many people indeed use it as a display of vanity or to attract attention. And you don't need facebook to improve a "friendship" or to stay friends. Some of my best friends are not on facebook, or not connected.
What I find really useful in facebook is its search function, as it allows you to e.g. reconnect with people who graduated in the same year at the same school/college as you.
The photo sharing abilities are not all that great (poor resolution, cumbersome interface to restrict visibility).
Well, for one, it seems you confuse participle with preterit.
Yeah, who would have thunk?
Also, the courts are granting one of the masterminds leniency in exchange for prosecuting their underlings? Isn't that the opposite of how it works? Reducing the sentence of a drug kingpin in exchange for testimony against 2 of his street dealers, really?
If the kingpin gets caught before the street dealers, why not?
I don't think this will make much of a difference as the videos in Wikipedia will probably be of little value. Like almost every Internet user I often get a Wikipedia article when searching for something. The things I find useful in it are the external links and to a lesser extent, the text and images in the articles. But most OGG samples are rarely worth checking out. The same probably goes for their Theora videos. It's just not easy to produce or find informative and encyclopedic audios or videos that can be made available under Creative Commons. The text found in copyrighted sources can be reworded to present only the facts, which can't be copyrighted. But you can't do the same with audiovisual material.
These people's wealth fluctuates a lot because it depends on the value of the stock they hold. The top spots can shift quickly. The Forbes ranking is often taken as a reference but it's just a rough estimate.