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"Install Other OS" Feature Removed From the PS3
Hann1bal writes "The next system software update for the PlayStation 3 system will be released on April 1, 2010 (JST), and will disable the 'Install Other OS' feature that was available on the PS3 systems prior to the current slimmer models, launched in September 2009. This feature enabled users to install an operating system, but due to security concerns, Sony Computer Entertainment will remove the functionality through the 3.21 system software update."
Updated 3:49 GMT by timothy: An anonymous reader writes "This comes as something of a surprise. Particularly because only a month ago Sony Computer Entertainment management seemed committed to the continued support of the Other OS option on the PS3."
Bummer ....
It doesn't run linux anymore.
This is BS, I don't see this being a good PR move, Possibly might even fall into
Does anyone know if we can install another OS BEFORE the update and still keep it? I don't want to lose the option just because I haven't exercised it yet.
Something sounds awfully fishy about this. If it's real, that's not exactly a day I'd want to release something like this.
OCO is Loco
It's not totally implausible that the feature allows some sort of exploit, but I can't seem to find anything about one actually existing, or it having come up in the past as a security concern. Is that just a cover to remove it, or are there actually security concerns?
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Now might be a time for the folks @ ps2dev to be a bit less arrogant/worrisome and allow things to be opened up.
While they do have some valid concerns, their excuses are wearing thin.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
...screw you right back atcha Sony!
- sigs are stupid
I heard the Other OS never had access to hardware accelerated graphic functions.
Guess I'll have to get on installing that copy of Yellow Dog Linux I have kicking around.
For optimal comment enjoyment, take red pill now.
It says if you have data on a linux partition before you update, you must copy it off because you won't have access to it after the update.
So that sounds like you'll be unable to run linux after the update.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
This is what happens when Sony gives us a limited, but useful, homebrew/open source support and an idiotic media-whoring kid decides to use it to attack Sony's OS security for no good reason.
Thanks, geohot. Good fucking job, you've managed nothing practically useful with your attack, but you pissed Sony off and now a) nobody can duplicate it any more, at least not if they want to keep using their PS3s for on-line gaming, b) the rest of us who didn't care for your retarded antics are now screwed.
-- Anonymous Hacker.
I wonder if this has anything to do with emulators running on YellowDog? It might have something to do with the new wiimote-like globe things and Sony not being able to lock them down like the GPU.
How can they sell something with a certain set of features and then just take it away? Thats like Ford saying we are disabling the air conditioners that were previously working on pre 2008 vehicles. WTF? I know, it didn't (doen't) really work all that well (slow) but I did run PowerPC Ubuntu on mine. This is more of an "eroding consumer rights" issue. Why now, considering the rootkit etc.. This just proves once again that Sony gives a rats ass about its customers rights.
"Computers are a lot like Air Conditioners" "They both work great until you start opening Windows"
People finally got into the Hypervisor on the PS3. That's pretty much the key to everything from legitimate homebrew to illegitimate pirating. I don't see a way for Sony to secure things in Linux. The Genie is out of the bottle. So this is the option they have taken. It's sad to see even though I never used Linux on it, or know anyone who did. It was nice to know the option was there.
Most tech products improve during their life cycle. Not Sony's. Emulation, Linux... every iteration removes one more feature. By the end of the year, they hope to have removed sound from the PS3, and a year from now the PS3 Omega will do nothing at all.
Some people are going to be very unhappy about this. Unless it's an early April Fools.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
I bought my PS3 for two things, cell development and games. So to play games I need the latest firmware but the latest firmware makes it impossible for me to do cell development. This was an advertised feature when I bought it(a few months after launch) so I don't see how Sony can do this without facing a class action suite.
In addition, disabling the “Other OS” feature will help ensure that PS3 owners will continue to have access to the broad range of gaming and entertainment content from SCE and its content partners on a more secure system.
lulz...
At least now, it's only a matter of time before the system gets hacked proper.
I think that they'd try to point back to the EULA that they can take 'update' as they see fit, but it would be like your car dealer 'updating' your XM radio to a normal one. It won't stand up in court on any planet (except maybe Texas).
Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
This is an April fool's joke! Sony has a wicked sense of humor, don't you think?
You should know Big Media's motto: "It's better to be in the tent pissing out, than out of the tent pissing in."
I can't think of a better case for a class action lawsuit. They are extorting us out of features that we paid for. I bought this version of PS3 for several reasons, installing an alternative OS was high among them.
--why?
Poisson d'Avril much?
256 megs of ram was kind of a limiting factor in using Linux on the PS3, though it would be cool to use the full power of the cell processor to re-encode video.
April 1st .. hrrrm
Just wondering...
Well, pretty much killed linux on the PS2 as well, so anyone who is surprised by this move doesn't know them very well.
It might have amounted to something yesterday. Now it's just another fringe platform. In the long story of computer history there have been many processors that have been marginalized by their vendors when they really did rock. The Cell is one, and now it's lost.
The thing is, I expected that from Sony because that's what they do - so I never bothered to master programming for Cell. They just don't get it. They never did and they never will. They've got some world class engineers and the poor bastards are restrained from ruling the world by the idiots they have in marketing and the executive branch.
To be fair, Toshiba and IBM (who participated in the Cell design) don't get it either - they'll never release a Cell platform that normal people can afford, and so they'll avoid the synergy that takes it from the fringe to dominance. It'll live and die in their mainframes and that's it - and they'll make a mint migrating their customers to the next fringe platform because God & Everybody knows you can't run mainframe OS's on x86 harware (right?).
But Sony? No, I expect this from Sony. Some people will find a way to break their DRM and run any OS you want on the thing now - but it's too late. That's too marginal and conditional for people who build stuff. Dammit Sony: we have enough stuff that doesn't work with our other stuff! Will you quit with the breaking flexibility please?
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Um... April Fool's?
http://twitter.com/pinskia/status/11230057232
This isn't looking good.
There is no such thing as "consumer rights". There are "customer rights", but being a customer to be sold, and not a consumer to be culled has gone away. Remember Sony is run by the movie division. IP (theirs) is all that matters.
* Carthago Delenda Est *
My question is: did they advertise the "other OS" thing as a feature of the PS3?
If so, now that they are removing it, would you have a case if you took them to small claims court for false advertising? You might want to consider trying that actually, if you feel like parting with your PS3.
I wonder how the HPC community is going to respond; there is a not insubstantial community who heard "150Gflop/$400" and "Linux" and decided to build clusters from PS3s. Those machines can probably just have updates held back, but it makes replacement a problem. To forestall the inevitable "that isn't a serious use" argument, US Airforce owns Something like 2,500 PS3s for compute work.
Killing Linux on the PS3 also presents something of an issue for the other Cell "partners", who seem to be looking at the PS3 as a low-cost Cell development starter kit. The other Cell machines on the market are *much* more expensive (an IBM QS22 blade is $8-20k, depending on configuration, and Mercury Computer Systems doesn't even like talking about how much their Cell boards cost). Given that Cell is an enormously difficult architecture to target, having relatively inexpensive systems to test and train on is very desirable for the other vendors, especially now that so many of the HPC folks are fixated on GPGPU, which is also terrible to program for, but has a far lower cost of entry. It could be that IBM's decision not to pursue Cell in the HPC market is how it became politically tenable for Sony to kill off Linux on the PS3.
That is planet Texas, thank you very much.
My friend was just telling me the other day that some bloke was almost done working on a way to unlock the entire PS3 hardware to Linux, rather than the reduced power it's forced to run at as is, which would allow, among many other things you can do with a powerful Linux computer, running the Dolphin Wii Emulator on the PS3, essentially giving the PS3 full Wii capabilities, too. Anyways, that was due to be ready soon... and now this? Interesting....
really. who gives a damn. With that 64MB of RAM any graphical linux was simply useless on the PS3
Bit of a bastard move by sony, but really - people don't really buy consoles specifically to run linux. Those that do are a tiny market which is likely more than offset by the additional piracy risk.
To sony management it would have been a no-brainer.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
I didn't just buy the PS3 to play games on it, I also bought it knowing that it would all but replace an aging PC I had been using. While it had limitations, (namely RAM and the RSX lockout), it still worked well enough to make my old PC totally obsolete. Any of you who have run Gentoo on yours and seen how fast it can handle non-graphics-related tasks like compiling know it's not a "slow" unit.
Legally, how can they take away such a feature? Doesn't that make initial claims of it running Linux deceptive advertising? After all, nobody ever said it would have an expiration date.
You know the worst part? Drastic measures intended to lock out pirates are just stopgap measures, sometimes barely even that. (look at the recent mention on slashdot of Ubisoft's DRM that lasted less than 24 hours!) In the end, the machine will eventually be broken anyway (probably by someone who joined the effort to crack it specifically because they wanted their other OS back), and the only people who will suffer will be respectful, paying customers.
I suspect Sony would have been far better off to have given us just a little more graphics power to take away one of the major reasons why these hacks were authored in the first place.
am I the only one who noticed it's on april fools' day?
How can they sell something with a certain set of features and then just take it away? I know, it didn't really work all that well....
1 Because the feature was never advertised and never of interest to the PS3's core market of console gamers?
2 Because the combination of Internet enabled HD video game console + Blu Ray player is beginning to look like a winner?
God of War III is the number one best seller in console video games at Amazon.com. It's a Sony product and a PS3 "exclusive."
The only way to make money in mass market consumer technologies is in mass market consumer sales. "Feel Good" doesn't pay the bills.
I used to play my games on my SNES or PSX, just like I used to play my games on my computer. Both were fun.
But now, if I pay money for a console, all I can do is play Sony's games on Sony's console. This isn't good enough. I'm not paying $500 for a computer that I don't have root on, thanks.
As someone who used to buy exclusively Sony products this is just one more reason for me not to buy their products anymore. Lets recap shall we.
They buy draconian laws from clueless congress critters? .. Check.
.. Check.
.. Check
.. Check.
.. Check.
.. yep
.. yep
They want to ban consumers from possessing devices with a record button?
They want to proprietize the marketplace with proprietary DRM infected media formats?
They lobby lobby lobby for broadcast flags?
They lobby to close the analog loophole.
They lie to politicians (about piracy killing profits) for more draconian laws while turning record profits ?
They want to disable you ability to record CDs on you computer with rootkits while lobbying for a piracy tax on blank media?
They sue their customers ?
They are pro DRM, ACTA, DMCA,
Slapped red handed giving payola to radio station DJs to skew the song charts."
Anti fair-use?
And they support the view and by proxy have told Congress that countries that support open source software as part of a gov. procurement policy should be on a watch list.
Hmmm did i miss anything? When I take all these things into account a disturbing pattern emerges hence, when it comes to their products I'll take a pass.
class action
You will make some law firm very happy, and you will get a coupon for future Sony product purchases.
Even if a class action suit is filed and they are found guilty or w/e ill receive a coupon in the mail for something i didnt want and have to pay real money to get anyways. Thanks alot Sony. I dont use my Linux on my PS3 whole lot, but i didnt give up 10 GB of precious HDD space for nothing.
Good-bye
Is this the only firmware update posted by "Sr. Director, Corporate Communications & Social Media" instead of the usual guy, and why is it slated for APRIL FIRST?
There would be an uproar heard in Congress if General Motors used their OnStar download links to remove a feature. Suppose GM did something so that third-party audio players like the iPod couldn't use the car's speakers. This isn't totally unreasonable. GM's onboard entertainment system has a port for connecting a CD changer. If you didn't buy the CD changer option, that port is unused. There are third-party non-GM adapter kits for connecting an iPod to that port. The dashboard CD changer controls then control the iPod.
GM could probably download an update to change the interface so that this would no longer work. GM would prefer that customers buy a GM audio source; they remarket XM Radio. Arguably, the iPod is a device for pirating music, and removing that capability would enhance the security of the system. It would also eliminate the possibility of unauthorized iPod software interfering with the car's networks, and perhaps the OnStar system.
So why shouldn't GM do that?
They're still advertising the "Open Platform" feature on their website:
http://www.playstation.com/ps3-openplatform/index.html
"There is more to the PLAYSTATION®3 (PS3(TM)) computer entertainment system than you may have assumed. In addition to playing games, watching movies, listening to music, and viewing photos, you can use the PS3(TM) system to run the Linux operating system."
Let's see how long that page lasts...
I haven't used the Other OS feature on my PS3 that much, but it was a motivator for buying the unit. Now, it's going to be gone. Sad. I'll remember this in in the future, SONY.
They took down most of the options on their 'Contact Us' page. You can't e-mail, or anything.
BUT they were stupid enough to leave the phone numbers on the site so feel free to clog their phones with calls expressing your displeasure over their violation of your property rights.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
How can they sell something with a certain set of features and then just take it away? I know, it didn't really work all that well....
1 Because the feature was never advertised
Wrong.
Even professional console developers use PS3Linux at home and work for prototyping. If they sold a Debugging Station for $2000 I'd rather do that, but then you need to do all that legal bullshit. Also taking kits home would set a bad example / end up losing kits depending who does it. :D
yes they did.
and even now their current ad campaign is "It does everything." Which is a flat-out LIE.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
I guess I'll just hold back on the update until a Custom Firmware is released that gives me all of the features and none of the bullshit.
Because in Texas the courts don't want to deal with your piddly shit, go shoot the guy with a shotgun and don't bother the courts.
Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
I happen to live on planet Texas you insensitive clod!
Texas actually has some pretty aggressive consumer protection. Now if you are talking about East Texas Judiciary 'That's different'.
Well.. not any more it doesn't.
I am the maverick of Slashdot
Hmm....
I use my ps3 for cell development, video streaming and playing games.
Sony is forcing me to choose between games or development.
Well... that means I've bought my last ps3 game.
I choose my ps3linux over the next call of duty.
http://www.stolk.org/tlctc
"How can they sell something with a certain set of features and then just take it away?"
You mean like they did with the software PS2 support?
"will be released on April 1, 2010 (JST)"
April Fools maybe?
Shutting down the option which kept the PS3 from getting hacked early on is the best move they could have done. It's like putting up an extra challenge, because now there is all reason to crack this thing open.
Problem with these consoles is the money and control scheme in place with them. If you want to make a game, you have to go through Sony. They are the ones who allow/disallow making a game and they are the ones who also get paid for each box sold. That's why the Linux on the PS3 never had full access to the graphics, for example, because then everyone and their dog could have made cool 3D games without asking and paying Sony for it. In return, this extra income allows Sony to offer the actual hardware for less than what it is actually worth. Same principle goes for Nintendo and Microsoft, and if you look back it was the very same with Sega.
Which means in the end they just want to secure their cashcow scheme by removing the "Other OS" option because of the recent hack attempts.
Is it just me, or does this imply that someone at Sony found a way to hack the PS3 firmware through the install other OS option?
The ______ Agenda
Why is this modded funny? Does "Finkelstein" sound too much like a jokey "stereotypical Jewish lawyer" name? 'Cause a quick Google search seems to confirm that this is a real law firm.
Sony is negating an advertised feature of their products after consumers have bought, paid for, and privately own them. Sounds like ripe material for a legitimate class-action lawsuit to me.
For some reason this story seems like I've already heard it a long ass time ago.
At any rate, the fact that Sony went so far as to implement a freaking HYPERVISOR to lock everyone but themselves out of the full capabilities of the hardware shows how much they support third party code.
Just to play Devil's Advocate here, was the "Install Other OS" ever a feature that was marketed? Was it on the side of the box, or in the commercial?.
-David
The parent exactly expresses the mindset of those who consider this change beneficial, and is not funny at all.
It is SONY, people. The spineless fat giant known for rootkits, support of insane copyright restrictions, etc.
The greedy company that created its own sound file format to protect you from copyright infringement.
The ones that shaft you with memory stick instead of adopting standard storage media.
To those poor wretches that are going to have their expensive toys broken, do not forget your lesson: Never deal with people you cannot trust.
I never deal with SONY.
For some reason, I feel like waiting until April 2nd before I get bent out of shape about this.
Right we shouldn't spoil this for the masses.
Hivemind harvest in progress..
Fools day in other words.
They can't remove the functionality they sold people the devices on or people will have a legitimate grievance with them.
Suck it up Sony, people that want to pirate on PS3 will find a way even if this option was removed.
Never saw it mentioned by Sony themselves other than on a Sony website, but it got plenty of "nerd press", just like the Linux kit on the PS2 did. (I have one of those too)
You not only hit the nail on the head, you drove it in with a single blow Daniel-san style.
This is why I've avoided Sony hardware like the plague for years now.
It's not that they don't release some EXCELLENT stuff.
It's just that they're such control freaks that they eventually decide to take their ball and go home with it.
Never mind that they're killing their own product.
Never mind that they're destroying a potential developer base.
Never mind that some of the things being developed on said platform are incredibly innovative uses of the equipment.
No, it's "MY BALL! MY BALL! MY BALL!"
Wake me when someone catches a clue.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
As I've told some friends, their Slims are inferior to my CECHE model PS3, because their Slims don't "do everything" my CECHE can do.
that given the release date this could be part of some elaborate April Fool's joke?
This is going to lower the value of the device - its odd that they don't understand that.
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
From my point of view, I don't think that piracy is in fact the issue.
The main problem with allowing linux is the fact that a lot of people buy this set of hardware as a set of hardware and not as a gaming console.
This means that Sony will not only be making less money then if the sold it as a gaming console, but they actually lose money since they are selling the console itself at a loss.
They should be selling more expensive versions with linux enabled though, upping the price by a couple of hundred dollars would still make them a very cheap source of cool hardware.
Disabling it in all-ready sold products is just a bastard move though.
"In addition to playing games, watching movies, listening to music, and viewing photos, you can use the PS3 system to run the Linux operating system. By installing the Linux operating system, you can use the PS3 system not only as an entry-level personal computer with hundreds of familiar applications for home and office use, but also as a complete development environment for the Cell Broadband Engine."
source: http://www.playstation.com/ps3-openplatform/index.html
And this is what Sony tells on the box of my PS3:
To continuously enjoy playback of copyright-protected Blu-Ray Discs, in some cases... the system must be updated."
In other words: To use a marketed feature (Playing of BluRay) you have to update the system whereby you lose another marketed feature (Running Linux OS). IMHO this fully rectifies legal action against Sony.
I've given up boggling at the bone-headedness of Sony's marketroids - their engineers create fabulous goodies and then the marketroids get them crippled. All the markets that Sony could have dominated but don't because of the blunders of these short-sighted nitwits. Without the Install Other OS option, the PS3 will almost certainly be reclassified by the EU as a games console and not a computer and be subject to an extra 2.2% import tariff in the EU, cutting significantly into their margins. I mean, the marketing guys are forcing the engineers to spend money so they can lose more money in the future? What other company would ever condone this idiocy?
Why do they have so much trouble understanding that honest people are honest and pony-up for their games and dishonest people are dishonest and will never pay for their games? Market to the honest people and forget the dishonest ones cos you'll never, ever convince them to pay for your stuff no matter how hard you lock down security.
One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors - Plato
Was about to put Linux on my ps3 but i think I will hold off now.
I only use my ps3 for media streaming over the network. I am slowly ripping all my dvds to my server and wanted to use the ps3 to speed this process up and also to rip my blue ray collection. I also wanted a system that could play .MKV video files without conversion. There where many other tasks I wanted Linux on the ps3 for but looks like I am better off not bothering now.
Well done sony for slamming the door in my face. The door is now closed
The fact it's being done on "April 1st" doesn't ring any alarm bells? Maybe I just become cynical around this time of year :p
This is SONY, folks. Backwards compatibility?
Sony lie and lie and lie and people just continue to buy their products. Well, except they don't so much, these days. PSP-GO... oh dear, it's tragic how badly it's selling.
I almost want a PS3 for God of War 3 and FF13, but crippling restrictions and Sony's "f**k you" attitude to customers mean I'll never put any money their way.
So... I want half my money back as this will be disabling HALF the functionality of my PS3.
If Sony execs/managers had a clue, they would charge $39.95 for the priveledge .
Idiots, I hope they loose their jobs and high end Toyotas ( not that jap corp would allow them to use better BMWs )
Oh and we dont want your whale killing, damn fish addicts.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
I can still install Linux on a computer, right?
I have no sympathy for people who render some devices even useless just because they wan't Linux on it. I know someone who killed 3 Linksys routers that way... he is a retard.
...but also switch, surely?
++ Say to Elrond "Hello.".
Elrond says "No.". Elrond gives you some lunch.
Their not They're....
I'll meet you at the intersection of "Should be" and "Reality"
When the Cell was first announced, I was very excited about it - I do signal processing and protocol simulation for a living, and having something with 8 powerful signal processing engines plus a dual core CPU to run the protocol stacks was just about a perfect fit. So I got my boss to approve buying a PS3 to begin evaluation on, and we began trying to find a vendor for the Cell chip (we can do our own PCB design and fab if needed).
After many talks with IBM, we found that unless you were willing to buy millions of parts, they didn't want to talk to you, didn't want to sell you the chips, didn't want to support you, here's a nice mainframe blade, isn't that good enough (NO! I need something like microTCA, not a big ass blade!).
Add to that how the PS3's Linux had really crummy support for graphics (because rather than being SMART and making the PS3 have the best OpenGL implementation out there, Sony crippled the system with a dumb framebuffer).
Recently, IBM has announced they are end-of-lifing the Cell blades, and moving everybody over to the newest Power series CPUs. So, you can pretty much bank on the Cell only being in the PS3, and maybe one or two TV sets (and even there, I would not hold my breath - until those TVs are shipping the vendors can and likely will change their minds).
While I would still recommend anybody wanting a Blu-ray player buy a PS3, and they are a decent video game platform, I would NOT recommend anybody even think about trying to support the Cell outside that platform - it will not happen, IBM has moved on, Sony doesn't want to support it.
And while there is much typical slashbot dick-waving posturing about "I'm gonna SUE! CLASS ACTION BABY! I'm gonna DESTROY SONY!" - good luck with that. You are taking a minor feature that most PS3 buyers don't even know about, that is periphery to the main function of the device, and trying to say you are in some significant way harmed by this? You expect an attorney to take on a major class action like this, for what - lulz? Against a multinational with a large army of lawyers? At best, you will get US$10 off your next Sony purchase.
What needs to happen is all the companies that bought PS3s to explore Cell programming need to start pressuring IBM and their limited set of third-party vendors like Mercury Computers to release the next generation Cell (with double-precision SPUs) on something reasonably sized and priced.
Meanwhile, flood eBay with all the now-useless PS3s they had in their clusters - drive the price down and cost Sony money.
www.eFax.com are spammers
I seem to remember that one of the reasons why Sony allowed Yellow Dog Linux was to be able to classify as a computer in the EU, thus avoiding some taxes in some EU states.
sigh... I got nothin'...
mmm... yeah... You see, we're putting the cover sheets on all TPS reports now before they go out...
APRIL FOOL !!!
This will probably be drawn back on the 1st of April ..
...it's hacked in a month. Probably wouldn't be too hard, either. Just run the current OS in a controlled environment to figure out what makes it so special, then make a Linux distro to duplicate that. Install the new distro on the hard drive through a regular computer, then transplant into the PS3.
If there is a class action I will deffinatly join. I use my ps3 to run Linux and to play Bluray movies. When I am in the PS3 OS I disconnect from the network. However there have been 2 movies that forced me to update in the past or I could not even watch them. This will be how sony forces you to lose OtehrOS. The will come up with some lame excuse that to enable 3D support they need the space in the firmware that OtherOS takes up. Sony is far more deceitfull than Microsoft and Apple combined. Hopefully the BluRay of Sherlock Holmes that comes out tuesday will not force an update either, but I would put money that the first majory sony picture to come out on BluRay after they push the update will force you to update for one reason or another.
This is just step one in the overall sony plan. Rumor has it that later they plan to begin charging a service fee for PSN. That would be fine but there will be no concessions for people who have already downloaded or bought games that depend on it under the guise that they would have free continued access. Beyond that the required updates will also only be available via the PSN so if you dont pay, you wont be able to update, and if you dont update you will not be able to watch new movies that you bought. It's economic terrorism.
I hope....
Instead of removing this feature why cant they fix it!! The current PS3 slim does not come with this feature anymore anyway!!!
Ape Real Fuel.
Is like Ape Real Fuel.
Is pronounced Ape Real Fuel.
And that is what you are:
Ape-Real-Fuel.
Never ever install anything that comes out on April 1st.
Don't be a fool!!
April Fool's Day. It could all just be a joke. After all, one of the few advantages the PS3 has over the 360 is the ability to install other oses
You get a GODDAMN job by SUNDOWN, or we'll send you off to GODDAMN MILITARY SCHOOL with the GODDAMN FINKELSTIEN SHIT kid. Son of a BITCH!
What Sony gave us was a glimpse of proprietary computing platforms: "Sorry sir, but we will not grant you access to the graphics accelerator -- you are only supposed to be using Other OS if you want to run HPC workloads, not just to watch movies." I waited years for a hack that would break the PS3 hyperviser, so that I could use my PS3 the way I wanted to use it, as a media center, and I am not the only one.
Of course, respecting their customers is not something Sony has ever expressed any interest in, so I really should not be surprised.
Palm trees and 8
Am I the only one thinking it has something to do with that ?
http://geohotps3.blogspot.com/2010/01/hello-hypervisor-im-geohot.html
Sony is clearly making money on software... Having the console hacked would be a real problem for them...
It's not surprising to me.
This comes as something of a surprise. Particularly because only a month ago Sony Computer Entertainment management seemed committed to the continued support of the Other OS option on the PS3
Right, because eliminating support for it on the current model hardware they are selling shows shuch strong commitment.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
I think this is a good time to make a disk image of your playstation hard drive.
Is the ps3 firmware stored in flash?
That said this is my last Sony product.
As I understand it, for a class action to happen, you have to have several preconditions:
1) there has to be an easily identifiable group of people to belong to the class. This would NOT be "the set of all people who bought PS3's that could run Linux" for reason #2 below, but rather "The set of people who bought PS2 to run Linux."
2) There has to be a harm to the class. Thus, just having bought a PS3 that could run Linux would not be enough - you would have to have bought the PS3 to run LInux. Moreover, the harm to you is in proportion to the time you run Linux on your PS3 vs. the time you use the GameOS - so if you only run Linux 10% of the time, you are at most going to get 10% of the price of the machine.
So the only folks who are going to be able to get ANYTHING are the people running Linux close to 100% of the time - folks running clusters, doing Cell research, etc.
And were I Sony's lawyers, I'd then ask "OK, so why are you applying the update? Unless you are playing games or accessing Sony's online network, you don't need to update. Thus, if you really ARE using this mostly to run Linux, you aren't harmed, since your machine will continue to run Linux. And since we aren't selling new machines with this ability, they don't fall under this class."
Thus, the whole "harm" aspect is shut down - thus no suit.
And even IF some set of users could show they both run Linux AND run the GameOS, then the argument would be "OK, so you run Linux 50% of the time, and so need to update. OK, we just cost you 50% of the amortized value of the box. When did you buy that? Two years ago? OK, GAAP says depreciation on that is 18 months, so it has depreciated to zero. 50% of zero is zero. Go away."
www.eFax.com are spammers
Wow... no one seems to notice that this change is coming "April 1st".
It is possible that Sony even violates the law by refusing Linux users access to their private data?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_trespass
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datenver%C3%A4nderung
Honestly, did no one RTFA? They're saying its going to be released on April 1st. Its obviously an April Fool's joke with a possible intention of seeing how the market reacts to removing such a feature.
Seriously, no one caught that?
That is exactly how most people think, and is why I hesitate to use a turn signal. Most people are just rude and speed up. Reminds me of a family guy episode where an Asian lady cuts across several lanes with no turn signal.
no comment
3.21 Test units still have this function, so I kinda doubt this.
Oh well, whatever.
"The next system software update for the PlayStation 3 (PS3) system will be released on April 1, 2010 (JST)" I smell a april fools joke... smells like cheese...
This needs more cowbell!!!
Sony sold you a device which includes certain features. You have that and always will have that. Sony also offers an additional service -- completely optional -- through an online network which offers various games, demos, videos, and also occasional updates. You do not have to use this network at all. If you do not make use of this optional service they provide, you will always maintain the features you currently enjoy.
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
While suing Sony sounds great, it involves finding a lawyer (ideally a class action lawyer) to handle it. But here in the US, we have another mechanism: the FTC.
If enough of us file FTC complaints online, they might take note. I wrote something like the text at the bottom of this post.
The company in question is:
Sony Computer Entertainment America
919 East Hillsdale Boulevard
Foster City, CA 94404
---BEGIN FTC COMPLAINT---
Sony (as Sony Consumer Entertainment America, Inc.) sells, and has sold for several years, a popular device called the Playstation 3. Up until now, this device has two features of note:
1. It supports a feature called "Install Other OS." This allows users to install operating systems such as Linux on their Playstation 3, which many users use for scientific and other purposes.
2. It supports something called the PlayStation Network. This is an online network of gaming users and is critical to obtaining the full gaming experience advertised by Sony.
Yesterday, Sony announced (http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010/03/28/ps3-firmware-v3-21-update/) that they were going to disable the "Install Other OS" feature on all PlayStation 3 units, even those already sold. Users can opt out of this disablement, but that will in turn disable PlayStation Network.
Sony claims that this is due to "security concerns." These security concerns are probably that Sony realized that "Install Other OS" might allow PS3 owners to bypass digital rights management restrictions. In other words, Sony is crippling an existing product to aid in preventing users from doing something that may hurt Sony's relationship with content developers. (Users attacking the Playstation 3 may or may not be legal, but that shouldn't matter here.)
I am not an expert in the relevant law, but it seems to me that a company should not be permitted to disable functionality of products already sold, especially when the reason that they disable that functionality is to prevent their users from doing something.
"They didn't use to be...and they can be DRMed again at the drop of a hat."
What does that have to do with anything? They can't suddenly re-DRM your old purchases. If Apple decides to reinstate DRM on iTunes then the people who use it can decide whether or not to continue using their service.
In other words, it's not some looming threat that'll suddenly turn your iTunes library into a DRM minefield.
Let this be a lesson for you: play on the PC, a machine you actually own.
I can agree with what malloc said but in case you didn't know, Linux distros are often used for hacking, I can think of two that you could do some serious damage with. So removing that would provide security for both pirated software and destruction of web servers.
"I agree with piracy in some respects, I think it's a great tool to get what you want while protesting some aspects such as DRMs, agressive pricing, inconvenience, etc..."
Wow, what a load of crap. I mean, really - that's an impressive stack of feces. How exactly is that a protest? Do you stand on the steps of Microsoft HQ with a bullhorn and announce you're pirating their product?
Of course not. You just steal it and convince yourself that you're doing some kind of good because you don't like the terms under which the product is offered to you. You're a thief, not a protester.
What terrific self-delusion you have. If you really wanted to protest you could switch to another O/S, some of which are, in fact, free of all those things you dislike about the product you're stealing. well, most of those things... if they really were inconvenient you would switch away from the MS products.
Grow a pair and own up to your thievery.
If you are disgusted with Sony's action in this PLEASE do not sit idely by. Contact the State Attorney General and ask for the consumer protection division.
You can file an official complaint with them and this is a first step. It's much faster and less exspensive than a class action law suit. I have already done so in the state of Indiana, but every complaint will give it more merit so please do file a complaint and let your voice be heard. Tell your friends and family to do so as well. Many states have laws prohibiting the disabeling of features after the sale to consumers.
You will need SCEA corperate information to file your complaint. It can be found here http://us.playstation.com/corporate/about/index.htm
Sony Computer Entertainment America Inc.
919 East Hillsdale Boulevard
Foster City, CA 94404
(650) 655-8000
Does the PS3's license agreement say that Sony can add or remove features at will? If so, it seems like all the ranting and noise about a lawsuit is for naught.
April Fools?
"Never mind that they're killing their own product. Never mind that they're destroying a potential developer base. Never mind that some of the things being developed on said platform are incredibly innovative uses of the equipment."
They're not killing their product. They're just divesting themselves of a client base that costs them money. What good does it do them to sell these things at a loss to people who aren't going to buy games?
Perhaps they could sell a version at a higher cost that would permit alternative O/S installation, but then you've got the costs of maintaining two code bases...
The vast majority of their users are not affected by this decision in the slightest. To me this looks like a smart business decision. You might not like it, but they're making a video game console for profit. They aren't in the business of selling processing power at a loss.
I see this sentiment a lot whenever class action lawsuits are discussed, but as a lawyer that has absolutely nothing to do with class action lawsuits, I would like to point out that one of the biggest purposes of class action lawsuits that people normally overlook when complaining about them is the deterrence effect.
Class action lawsuits are basically one of the most, if not the most, expensive form of litigation a company can endure. Even though due to the number of plaintiffs, in the end each person might only get a $10 gift card, the combined cost to the company of that are staggering.
In this case, it would be taking Sony to task, and hopefully Sony would see the error of its ways and back down. Even if that is not the eventual outcome, it sends a message to all the other bad guys out there, if you engage in this type of shenanigans, you should think twice because it will cost you dearly.
In a way, the lawyers who bring the suit are acting as private attorney generals, punishing wrong doing that may not rise to the criminal level, but affecting large swaths of the populace in a tortious fashion nonetheless. While no doubt the lawyers involve need to be incentivized to engage in this activity somehow, whether they should be rewarded as richly as they are for it currently is another issue entirely...
When you buy a closed console, you are not in control of the device. Matter of fact, Sony can retroactively remove features from your machine if they think it is a good idea. All they have to do is push an update that does this and make it mandatory for users to install. New game x won't run without the latest version of the firmware, so you can either keep (relative) control over your hardware, or let them take it away entirely via the update.
It is just one more reason not to buy anything from Sony, let alone the whole rootkit thing. Then again, I'm sure all of the people who were upset about the rootkit went out and purchased a PS3 anyway.
Security engineering used to be about protecting people or their possessions...about 30 years ago. For the past three decades, as consumers have become more and more able to copy books, music, movies, and software, more and more security engineering work has gone into restricting access to "media." Thus, we saw AGC hacks, watermarks in music, CSS, hundreds of different software restriction systems, PDF restrictions, gaming console restrictions...these are security systems. As you have probably noticed, these systems are becoming more and more advanced -- PDF restrictions are simple to break, Kindle is not so simple.
Palm trees and 8
The problem with your analogy is that a lot of people actually use the A/C in their cars.
And how is this eroding consumer rights? They are removing a little used feature, one that I doubt by itself sold many, if any, consoles. I'm sure people will still figure out a way to run linux.. they just won't have an easy as a time because sony isn't helping them anymore, not that they were obligated to provide this feature in the first place.
And when you explained this particular feature, did any of them give a rats ass?
Seriously, WTF is (JST)? Joking Standard Time? Sure the article looks legit but I find it hard to believe. I guess we'll see in a couple days....
Compared to other consoles, Sony's is amazingly free. They allow any usb drive, any laptop hard drive without voiding your warranty. They allow usb wires for charging controllers, and let you use any cameras / mics / keyboards / mice /printers / remotes that you want.
They allow you to download bought psn games onto up to 5 PS3's, and redownload as much as you want.
They give you a free browser and don't charge you to connect to the internet / use multiplayer.
You can use any random image for wallpaper, and you can play tons of video and audio formats from either the internal hard drive or usb devices.
I steal signatures. This one used to be yours.
The question now is "Where can I buy these ARM-based desktop computers and how much are they?"
They are coming in significant numbers to the net book range. Specially since Nvidia starded its Tegra chip serie (Dual-core ARM Cortex A9 + Nvidia GPU).
Several of the major Netbook producers have announced ARM-based laptops with longer battery life.
(And they have already been popular in the homebrew world with development kits like the Beagleboard or hacker-friendly machines like Always Innovating's TouchBook).
They might not be able to run WoW (there's not even a port of Windows 7 planned for ARM). But they run enough of Linux to feature web, mail and chat (This all coming with an increased battery life), and that's what most of the people do most of the time.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
The problem tho... is even if their CONSOLE is *AMAZING ZOMG BEST THING EVAR!!!!*... it is still a SONY device.
I personally don't buy Sony stuff either, for most of the reasons above.
Every cell phone out has MicroSD... EXCEPT Sony? Every Camera has SD... EXCEPT Sony?
They won't see any of my money any time soon.
There are better options for almost everything sony makes. TVs? Samsung or Vizion. MP3 players? Apple or MS. etc etc etc. Console? 360 (Even *WITH* RROD) and Wii (Even with outdated graphics)
Yeah.... Fuck you Sony.
Seems like a dick move, but I already found a way around it before I even bought a PS3 slim; I have a real computer connected to my television.
I don't exploit distributed computing in any way, however, but the previous "Other OS" still gimped the potential of a PS3 for it. It was just inexpensive and on Sony's tab because they're not selling a computer, they'll selling a gaming system and the fact is they have some price competition to deal with. They subsidize with the expectations people will buy games, lots of games, and lots of people do.
No love lost here for me, and besides... this will only force the hand of the homebrew community. Sony turned a challenge into a tournament and now they'll have to face that. In the next couple years we'll really see how sturdy the PS3 is.
"Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
No, it's not thanks to legal precedent. Legal precedent is when a case establishes a rule that can be used in future cases, and is, in effect, creating a new law.
This is setting an example, where if you do something that screws over a lot of people in a very small way, you can't get away with it just because nobody is damaged enough to care. Instead, all the aggregated damages are counted together, and that tends to be enormous.
And it's not really that big a problem that 99% of the people in the class are too lazy to care they've been screwed. As long as they can get together a few people that care, and get lawyers to represent them, then they can bring a class action on behalf of all of them.
I'm going to guess this is Japan Standard Time, what with Sony Corporation being headquartered in Minato, Tokyo, and Japan being such a big market for the PS3.
As the owner of a "Slim" PS3, I'm hoping that this prompts a complete crack of the whole HV system, so I can eventually install Linux on this thing. No, I don't want to pirate games or anything like that, I just want the ability to run a better browser on it.
One did, and asked if they could get a PS3 like mine, another wishes they had PS2 support, but can live without it since they have a PS2.
...nobody calls me "kneejerk!"
The days of running Linux on consoles is way past over. It all started with Micro$oft holding this feature back from the XBox 360 (a feature that first appeared in the original XBox). This was a long time ago.
Supposedly there's a way to setup a proxy so that you can stay on the old version and continue to access the PSN by having your PS3 return the file the PSN is looking for.
Dear Sony,
I am writing to complain about the new 3.21 firmware update. I went through a lot of trouble to obtain a 60GB PS3, partially for the backwards compatiblity with PS2 titles, and partially for the Other OS feature. As an electronics hobbiest, I built it from parts out of non-working systems, as this was far cheaper than the alternative (essentially paying someone else to do the same for me) although still more expensive than buying a Slim. Then the unit was stolen in an apartment robbery just as I finished work on it, and I did it all again. I have, in total, spent a little over a thousand dollars on PS3 systems, parts, games, and accessories (and the games and accessories were all purchased new.) One of the main features I intended to make use of was OtherOS.
I almost didn't purchase a PS3 at all because of the XCP debacle some years back, as this demonstrated a certain contempt for customers as well as an astounding level of arrogance, not to mention an overall lack of responsibility on the part of a trusted content provider. In fact, the aforementioned has caused me to look at other brands first in most product categories. The fact that you are releasing an update specifically to remove a feature, and not to address any of the numerous bugs on the system (such as the web browser that seems to freeze the system habitually during use) only serves to reinforce the notion that you still hold a certain level of disdain for your paying customers.
I really wish that I could treat my customers like criminals after they've paid me their hard-earned money and cancel services they've paid for once they're no longer convenient for me. Of course, I'd be out of a job, and most businesses would close down if they acted in such a fashion. I really don't see why you can't update the hypervisor to close the hole, or simply be content with the fact that first-gen consoles are becoming harder and more expensive to obtain compared to their newer kin - as well as the fact that the only exploits that currently exist require advanced skills and delicate modifications to the PS3 hardware. Instead, you're putting your normal users through the risks of a firmware update simply to remove a feature they know nothing about, and you're simultaneously telling a small but highly taltented niche that you no longer want their business, and - most troubling - that they won't be able to continue using their systems as they're accustomed WITHOUT resorting to hardware modification.
I do hope you realize that the hobson's choice you've presented your advanced users with is only going to encourage significantly harder and more in-depth work on finding workarounds for every last ounce of security your system has. The majority of the users you're disenfranchising are the type who have little to no fear of taking a soldering iron to their PS3, who in the past would've been happy to dabble with their interests within the confines of the sandbox you provided. You've just given them a reason to do so. I myself am probably going to break out the soldering iron in the very near future.
The funny thing is, every time attempts are made to squash potentially threatening technology, said technology always gets a lot more attention than it did before. Remember the MP3 format and the Diamond Rio PMP? DeCSS? How about the significant step forward in CD ripping techniques that came about as a result of the efforts you and others made to obliterate Red Book compliance as thoroughly as possible, even to the point of your own XCP debacle? Most people had never heard of the PS3 exploits before Marth 28, but now some individuals with a high level of skill and a lot of time on their hands are very, very motivated to change that. When piracy on the PS3 finally does become a problem, I hope you'll be able to rest well with the knowledge that you initiated the chain reaction yourselves.
April Fools, but this is a little early and it looks like though not a joke, it is quite foolish, I purchased a system that had this functionality, they're removing it; could you imagine Microsoft pushing out an update that made your pretty duel boot fail forever?
I think there are enough consoles to be consider a 'class' and I paid a lot more for my fat PS3 than the current rate, maybe a refund to match the current stripped model is due.
Unix, an obscure operating system developed by bored researchers in an attempt to get a better game playing experience.
How much is the PS3 now; about $400 AUD? I can get a second hand PC with a 3 Ghz processor and at least 1 Gb of RAM for less than that. Some places will include an LCD monitor in that price, although if they don't, a refurbished one of those will cost you $100. With that, you can do everything that you'd want to do on a PS3 running Linux, and no soldering iron required. The last console I owned was a CBS Colecovision; for me it's been all PC ever since.
I know; I'll probably also get the usual illiterate, Trotskyite, Eurotrash 14 year old from Stallman's drone army, spluttering in rage in response to this, but I really don't care. If you're one of the people who is obsessed with the cool factor of running Linux on devices which weren't intended for it, I'd suggest you get a life. If you're also one of the brainwashed cultists who thinks that the entire planet needs to be brought under the unholy dominion of Richard Stallman, then again, get a life. Forcible deprogramming might help in the latter case, too.
But Sony are needlessly being evil, corporate douchebags about this, I hear you say? Tell me something I don't know. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if such was part of Sony's corporate motto; being enthusiastically evil at every possible opportunity, is fairly simply what they do.
The answer is simple, though, Slick. Vote with your wallet, because being the corporate reptiles that they are, that's all they care about.
F*** you, Sony. You just guaranteed that this will be the last piece of consumer electronics I ever purchase from you.
Rescind Playstation System Update 3.21
The Depart of Defense won't like this... to whom have over 2200 PS3's all running Linux in a cluster...
http://boingboing.net/2009/11/29/department-of-defens-1.html