There is a difference, but it's not a good difference. You probably don't understand that, either, so here we go: the difference is that only people with money get a tax break, they aren't available to the poor.
You should be replying to the original AC; I understood that just fine, thanks.
"He's making cars the majority of people can't afford. Electric cars need a 300 mile range for $25k new with the infrastructure to back it up"
Dude, wtf universe are you viewing? If by "the majority of people" you're counting every human being, then you're correct BUT they can't afford your fantasy $25k 300 mile EV either. Why do you think most of Asia - where "the majority of people" live - gets around by bicycle & scooter??
But 400,000 people, most of whom can't afford any of Tesla's current lineup did plunk down $1000 USD for a ~$35-45K car that they hope to be able to drive in 2-3 years. And the high wattage Supercharging stations already cover a LOT of the world, where those people already live and there are as many Tesla-branded destination chargers at stadiums, malls & hotels and many, many more to come in the next couple years.
That's not even mentioning what the competition will be doing and the numbers of public / paid charge points already available.
Is that so? I hadn't heard. Sounds like it's more related to AC demand than pesky EVs.
The historic peak demand for the state fluctuates from year to year and 2014 was about the same as 2006 and only slightly higher than 2007 http://www.energyalmanac.ca.go...
The data I've found doesn't show dramatic increases in state-wide electricity consumption over the past couple decades so even the most EV-friendly large jurisdiction in the world is not yet affected by the theoretical demands of large numbers of electric vehicles.
Make electric cars cheaper without sacrificing so much range so they have parity with gas powered cars. Then take all the money you would have put in to incentives and create infrastructure. Stop paying people to buy in to technology and start making the technology desirable to have.
Pay attention, Slashdotters. Elon Musk is in da house!
"Never understood government paying people to buy stuff" You don't understand it because your premise is wrong. You're not being paid; you're getting a tax break. There's a difference between the 2 but you probably don't understand that either.
"You have to generate the power somewhere. If not in an internal combustion, then where?" That *somewhere* is at power plants but lots of Germans have rooftop solar so perhaps self-generation will offset much of it. We're also a long way from the time where EVs make up enough of cars on the road to be a significant draw on the grid, if well-managed.
California has about 200,000 plug-in EVs, roughly 1/2 the US total and they're not building power plants or suffering rolling blackouts because of demand.
Interesting that while many other countries have had incentives in place for 5 yrs or more, Germany has waited until its domestic automakers got on board.
Let's hope so; if it's because they were unable to control costs and could be off that much in just one year, that doesn't bode well for the Model 3 price 2 years from now.
Last year, Tesla had a press release stating PowerPacks would be ~$250/kWh but the recently released pricing on their site shows a cost of $470/kWh even if you purchase FIFTY-FOUR PowerPacks for a total of 5,4 MWh of energy storage. And the inverters aren't cheap either.
"standard meme "but China copies everything" would be invoked" It's been true for a long time.
"Gives me a laugh everytime" I still laugh at lots of things that now get SJW panties uncomfortably bunched up. Doesn't mean they weren't or aren't still true.
Also, it seems that lots of things that China makes & exports contains substances that are banned in other countries, notably lead. So perhaps this new EV will cut costs by initially using lead-acid batteries .:-D
Computing pioneer Konrad Zuse's 1969 book Rechnender Raum ( Calculating Space ) proposed that the universe is a digital computer and is considered the 1st book on digital physics.
Mildly inconveniencing one of the worst people in the world is hardly a race to the bottom. He's living under better conditions than a LOT of humanity ever has, including hundreds of millions alive now that have never harmed anyone. I've spent all but a few years living in advanced Western countries and too many of those years were with hardly any heat, incl 3 consecutive years where temps in my bedroom would get down to 40F several months of the year. There are a dozen homeless guys on the street outside my office every day who've physically suffered more for addiction, PTSD and mental illness than Breivik will ever undergo in prison for a horrific slaughter of innocents.
Do I want him dead? No. Beaten? Well, maybe a couple shitkickings might be good for him but I wouldn't do it nor ask someone else to. What I most want is for him to accept that he's getting off fucking lightly for what he's done and be grateful for the justice system he's living under.
"Putting him in solitary confinement, as a punitive measure, is not a victory for the good people in the world" Won't be long before *imprisonment" is seen as cruel & unusual, the barbarous punishment of a bygone age and sentences will be served at home.
WTF?? He thinks microwaved meals to be worse than waterboarding? Okay, replace his breakfast with a 5 min waterboarding session. That'll start his day off right.
He was being treated pretty damn well already. There are a fuckton of American serving time for marijuana offenses that would love to have the conditions he's so unhappy with.
I'm all for treating like a human but this is too much coddling. The guy is a mass murderer but is treated better than someone spending a weekend in jail for drunk driving except for the length of stay. I believe he considers himself a political prisoner? Fine, let's offer 4 Syrian political prisoners his Norwegian jail cell subject to same conditions & length of stay and he can have 4 cells in a Syrian prison for his exclusive use.
You'd have to know where he lives to figure out the latter. For example, the last time I lived in a place that used oil or coal for electricity generation was ~45 years ago.
There's probably plenty of crap you can find on the mgmt people. A sales director from HP was presenting on their newfangled Big Data system at our offices last year and when he exited the Powerpoint, I noticed he had an Avengers torrent on his Windows Desktop. Fuckin' noob.
Catalytic converters also tend to be quite inefficient until the engine warms up so while the converter does a pretty good job once you're on the road, it's accomplishing bugger-all when you start up and for several minutes after. Also, replacing most or all ICEs with EVs in cities mean delicate lungs aren't breathing CO and other pollutants and there's no ground-level ozone or nitrogen oxides to form smog.
Slashdot Mirror
There is a difference, but it's not a good difference. You probably don't understand that, either, so here we go: the difference is that only people with money get a tax break, they aren't available to the poor.
You should be replying to the original AC; I understood that just fine, thanks.
She has a Tesla? What do you drive?
"He's making cars the majority of people can't afford. Electric cars need a 300 mile range for $25k new with the infrastructure to back it up"
Dude, wtf universe are you viewing? If by "the majority of people" you're counting every human being, then you're correct BUT they can't afford your fantasy $25k 300 mile EV either. Why do you think most of Asia - where "the majority of people" live - gets around by bicycle & scooter??
But 400,000 people, most of whom can't afford any of Tesla's current lineup did plunk down $1000 USD for a ~$35-45K car that they hope to be able to drive in 2-3 years. And the high wattage Supercharging stations already cover a LOT of the world, where those people already live and there are as many Tesla-branded destination chargers at stadiums, malls & hotels and many, many more to come in the next couple years.
That's not even mentioning what the competition will be doing and the numbers of public / paid charge points already available.
"California *is* suffering blackouts"
Is that so? I hadn't heard.
Sounds like it's more related to AC demand than pesky EVs.
The historic peak demand for the state fluctuates from year to year and 2014 was about the same as 2006 and only slightly higher than 2007
http://www.energyalmanac.ca.go...
The data I've found doesn't show dramatic increases in state-wide electricity consumption over the past couple decades so even the most EV-friendly large jurisdiction in the world is not yet affected by the theoretical demands of large numbers of electric vehicles.
http://www.ecdms.energy.ca.gov...
Make electric cars cheaper without sacrificing so much range so they have parity with gas powered cars. Then take all the money you would have put in to incentives and create infrastructure. Stop paying people to buy in to technology and start making the technology desirable to have.
Pay attention, Slashdotters. Elon Musk is in da house!
"Never understood government paying people to buy stuff"
You don't understand it because your premise is wrong. You're not being paid; you're getting a tax break.
There's a difference between the 2 but you probably don't understand that either.
"You have to generate the power somewhere. If not in an internal combustion, then where?"
That *somewhere* is at power plants but lots of Germans have rooftop solar so perhaps self-generation will offset much of it.
We're also a long way from the time where EVs make up enough of cars on the road to be a significant draw on the grid, if well-managed.
California has about 200,000 plug-in EVs, roughly 1/2 the US total and they're not building power plants or suffering rolling blackouts because of demand.
Interesting that while many other countries have had incentives in place for 5 yrs or more, Germany has waited until its domestic automakers got on board.
How so? Do you think that EVs will merely sit in the passing lane?
Let's hope so; if it's because they were unable to control costs and could be off that much in just one year, that doesn't bode well for the Model 3 price 2 years from now.
Last year, Tesla had a press release stating PowerPacks would be ~$250/kWh but the recently released pricing on their site shows a cost of $470/kWh even if you purchase FIFTY-FOUR PowerPacks for a total of 5,4 MWh of energy storage.
And the inverters aren't cheap either.
"standard meme "but China copies everything" would be invoked"
It's been true for a long time.
"Gives me a laugh everytime"
I still laugh at lots of things that now get SJW panties uncomfortably bunched up. Doesn't mean they weren't or aren't still true.
Also, it seems that lots of things that China makes & exports contains substances that are banned in other countries, notably lead. :-D
So perhaps this new EV will cut costs by initially using lead-acid batteries .
Computing pioneer Konrad Zuse's 1969 book Rechnender Raum ( Calculating Space ) proposed that the universe is a digital computer and is considered the 1st book on digital physics.
"Just helpless"
I would say hopeless rather than helpless. Sometimes they go together but often they don't
Mildly inconveniencing one of the worst people in the world is hardly a race to the bottom. He's living under better conditions than a LOT of humanity ever has, including hundreds of millions alive now that have never harmed anyone.
I've spent all but a few years living in advanced Western countries and too many of those years were with hardly any heat, incl 3 consecutive years where temps in my bedroom would get down to 40F several months of the year. There are a dozen homeless guys on the street outside my office every day who've physically suffered more for addiction, PTSD and mental illness than Breivik will ever undergo in prison for a horrific slaughter of innocents.
Do I want him dead? No. Beaten? Well, maybe a couple shitkickings might be good for him but I wouldn't do it nor ask someone else to.
What I most want is for him to accept that he's getting off fucking lightly for what he's done and be grateful for the justice system he's living under.
"Putting him in solitary confinement, as a punitive measure, is not a victory for the good people in the world"
Won't be long before *imprisonment" is seen as cruel & unusual, the barbarous punishment of a bygone age and sentences will be served at home.
WTF?? He thinks microwaved meals to be worse than waterboarding?
Okay, replace his breakfast with a 5 min waterboarding session. That'll start his day off right.
He was being treated pretty damn well already. There are a fuckton of American serving time for marijuana offenses that would love to have the conditions he's so unhappy with.
I'm all for treating like a human but this is too much coddling. The guy is a mass murderer but is treated better than someone spending a weekend in jail for drunk driving except for the length of stay.
I believe he considers himself a political prisoner? Fine, let's offer 4 Syrian political prisoners his Norwegian jail cell subject to same conditions & length of stay and he can have 4 cells in a Syrian prison for his exclusive use.
You'd have to know where he lives to figure out the latter.
For example, the last time I lived in a place that used oil or coal for electricity generation was ~45 years ago.
He probably has an electric car.
There's probably plenty of crap you can find on the mgmt people.
A sales director from HP was presenting on their newfangled Big Data system at our offices last year and when he exited the Powerpoint, I noticed he had an Avengers torrent on his Windows Desktop.
Fuckin' noob.
Ask Kipling.
Cult: at least one person knows it's all a scam
Religion: everyone who knows the truth is dead
Catalytic converters also tend to be quite inefficient until the engine warms up so while the converter does a pretty good job once you're on the road, it's accomplishing bugger-all when you start up and for several minutes after.
Also, replacing most or all ICEs with EVs in cities mean delicate lungs aren't breathing CO and other pollutants and there's no ground-level ozone or nitrogen oxides to form smog.