Nice strawman arguement. That's almost by the book.
Strawman: Arguing against a position by creating a different, weaker, or irrelevant position and refuting that new position instead of the original.
Of COURSE the cases you stated would be wrong and horrible things...a complete fucking idiot could see that. However...those are VERY different things than not using frontpage to make an anti-ms site...which actually doesn't even turn out to be the case anyways. Read the update on slashdot's front page. The point is, is that if you don't agree with the license...don't buy the fucking product. The license is a part of the product you bought...and if it isn't, then Linux is in trouble, because Linux depends on a certain license agreement too, like any operating system really. Personally, I like BSD's license, but that's just my humble opinion. Not buying it will create pressure to change it...if we don't buy it, they don't survive.
The whole arguement is pretty silly now anyways...read the update.
I am sick and tired of everyone who wants the Government to beat Microsoft down, when they have the right to sell their product however the hell they choose. What about THEIR rights? Sure...it's total bullshit...which brings me to the solution:
You can choose NOT to use it. Seriously. Quit complaining about rights and vote with your money. If they want your money, M$ has to play by your rules. If people aren't smart enough to vote with their money, they have no one to blame with themselves.
BTW...shouldn't an anti MS person use a non-MS OS and editor anyways? vi works great!
You say he has a lack of a coherent plan....but if you were leading a military movement, would you be disclosing your exact plans to the global media? There's a slight logic flaw there. The bad guys get CNN too.
As for WHY we are doing it...if you can't figure that out yet, then I don't know what to tell you...but as usual...I'll try. First - When Bin Laden attacked the WTC, he didn't just kill Americans. He killed literally HUNDREDS of foreigners. (60-100 Canadians, ~100 Britons, 140 New Zealanders were still missing, as many as 250 to 300 Indians could be missing. Forty-one others had been hospitalized, and the list goes on and on. There were even Islamic people in there! The point is, is that these terrorists are completely mad. They have made it apparent that they will kill anyone, as long as they kill American's too. Even if I did something wrong as an American (which is another debatable subject), why in the hell should the guy next to me pay for it? THAT is a bigger attack on freedom and liberties than anything...it's often the death penalty - and for no reason. That's a pretty damn strong reason to take the man out in my opinion...and it makes it pretty clear that he is not a rational being to me. He's charismatic and well spoken...but completely fucking nuts. He attacked on American soil...but it's the WORLD trade center...and there are many hundreds of casualties from all over the planet. When Bin Laden went for the embassy's in Africa he also took out ALOT more Africans than he did Americans. He's a problem to more than just us here....those people had nothing to do with what he's bitching about.
And exactly how do you know ANYTHING about what Bush's plans or lack of plans are? Is mind reading another one of your strong points? Bush himself probably isn't making the exact military plans himself anyways...that's what the the military and it's leaders and strategists are for.
some simple wiretapping. If you are ready to throw the 1984 arguement, you'd better have more than some privacy complaints to back it up...because if that's all you've got, then you haven't READ 1984.
News that Bush has decided to launch a crusade on a terrorist jihad do not fill me with hope that this will be the case.
He didn't launch a "crusade on a terrorist jihad". He is on a crusade against terrorism, which actually has no religeous connotation whatsoever. The terrorists are the ones trying to make a religeous pissing match out of it, by trying to call a Jihad against us.
He hasn't got papal sanction, and we aren't trying to take back "the holy land"....(Those are the two religeous oriented definitions of the word.) Seriously...check your dictionary for the OTHER meaning(s).
I REALLY wish more people would be a little more objective about their judgement of the man and take his words for the spirit of what's in them, rather than trying to find the worst interpretation to back up their already warped view of the guy. The biases here are so strong, that objective thinking can't happen...it's almost laughable. People here have such open minds...except for all that stuff they are closed-minded too anyways...
Re:This gets modded up with no proof!?!
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Actually...thank you for backing that up, and giving a good explanation. Even so, I am skeptical, as they have positive identification on many of the people involved. From airport survielance cameras, to the passport they found, to their travel/immagration records....these look to be people affiliated with Bin Laden. They have many of the people positively identified...and they are known to have ties. One confusing bit, should be investigated - yes, but the standing evidence is a bit too strong to cast aside very easily.
Re:What can 60 billion dollars buy?
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Saddam and the Taleban are the ones who are MAKING those countries poor. Stabilizing the politcal climate is unfortunately going to require some extermination first....dictator aren't going to just let change happen freely...especially when it robs them of absolute power...and they have their populations so brainwashed that it would never be very easy. They will resist too, in thinking their leaders are right. Even if we give them all the money in the world, they will think it was their leaders who made it possible by getting it out of us.
ObL has got 300 million in the bank. He'd rather try to blow us to hell with it than try to help his own people. You can do ALOT with 300 million...if you wanted to.
Re:What can 60 billion dollars buy?
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Yes...start giving money to those nations and groups who would harm us. Way to discourage terrorists!
This gets modded up with no proof!?!
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Oh pulease....how about some links and hard info...everything so far is pointing to Bin Laden's network...EVERYTHING. (Guess that's all part of the setup now right? Sometimes things are actually what they seem!)
Re:What can 60 billion dollars buy?
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With this 60 billion dollars could we start enough "rebuilding" efforts in Afgan, Iraq, and Palestine to turn would-be terriorists into brick-layers?
An Idealist would say so...and realist however would probably think otherwise.
Even beyond that...how would that work? Ok..you killed a few thousand of our people and took out two huge buildings...but here's a few billion, lets fix you right up! Umm....no. I am not opposed to helping them...but not until those repsonsible are 6 feet under.
I love it. So far...the truth to this post has gotten it modded to flamebait. Mod it up and let the rabid liberals (kinda like the rabid conservatives you bash so much here...only different), deal with the truth.
Actually...I honestly do not care if they do see my email. Firstly - there are BILLIONS of emails sent daily...if you think there's a guy at a desk just waiting for you to send one so he can read it, don't flatter yourself. They'd need to hire 80% of the people of China to even come close to pulling that off. More than likely, they are watching individuals that the international intelligence community already knows as suspected terrorists, or terrorist affiliates. They might even learn of other people involved from those emails. Secondly...I don't really fucking care one bit about what I am emailing and who see's it. Heck...anyone with admin access on a box at your ISP can go poking through your email on a whim if he/she is bored enough. Why aren't we all crying our eyes out over this potential gross violation of our civil rights? What they heck could anyone possibly care about in my email? Half of it is spam anyways, and my casual correspondances are relatively inremarkable. (Relatively speaking anyways. I am generally not swapping terrorism techniques.) Heck...anyone sniffing some packets on your ISP's ISP can probably watch what your up to too....Waaa.
I am sick and tired of the paranoid lemming mentality just as much as the sheep mentality. The real problem is finding a balance with it all. I think there are some rights that shouldn't be tampered with...I REALLY think they shouldn't be. I think speech should remain as free as it is now...although I am not going to go pitying anyone who goes cracking jokes over this who happens to get the crap kicked out of them. Frankly...that's a darwin award issue as far as I am concerned.
Gee...hiding? Yeah...that's because he was a prime target. Guiliani wasn't. There's a big difference right there. When you add to that, the fact that he's a MUCH more juicy target to someone who wants to do damage, if you had any wits about you, you'd be hiding too. Would the whole world change if Guiliani was killed? Not like it would if they managed to kill an American president.
I hate to seem like I am always backing Bush up here, as I don't think he is perfect by any means...but get a grip...seriously. He hasn't done anything differently than what I think ANY other president would have done...and once the immediate danger cleared...he IS out and about and amoung the people again. If I recall correctly, I heard that he's actually going to NY today himself to see things in person.
So far...I am behind everything he's done about this.
Only one problem. George W. Bush isn't repsonsible for Hiroshima or Vietnam...and as for his father and the sanctions with the people of Iraq...well...Iraq probably could have fed ALOT more of them if they weren't trying to make chemical weapons, nukes, and stock up on every piece of military hardware anyone is crazy enough to sell them.
As for Hiroshima...look up what the Japenese were doing with anyone who surrendered to them. Raping civilians (and forced 'comfort women' for their soldiers...on a HUGE scale...which was pretty much the wholesale rape of the mothers, wives and daughters of the losers), murdering civilians, murdering those who surrendered in cold blood, and if you got a quick death you were lucky as alot of it was from literal torture....and believe me...I am not going into ALOT of gory details for the sake of being brief here. This was not a few isolated incidents...this was their way. They were about as brutal as you can be about it. They were commiting crimes against humanity LONG before we struck back with ours...and yes...in my opinion: they had it coming. I'd go as far as to say they got off easy.
Vietnam? Don't get me started...the arguements on either side of that will be going on for alot longer than I'll be on this earth...and neither side will ever be 100% right.
Don't get me wrong...my heart goes out to the muslims who are going to take abuse for the actions of a few zealots...but don't kid yourself about the past actions of this country...American's have generally did what they knew as best at the time...and more often than not, they were justified. Out of the things you listed...Vietnam is the only point I'll give you as debatable.
rofl...again...put some substance behind your words. Everything you've stated is your own small minded opinion, and it's not impressing me. Someone who goofs up some sentences != stupid.
Hey...it's kinda a strawman argument to say this, but Stephen Hawking doesn't talk so well either. My point is this: There's ALOT more to intelligence than what you sound like. Alot of people have minds that work alot faster than their mouths do.
Bush might not be a rocket scientist...but get real and give credit where it's due....he's NOT as bad as so many of these idiotic exaggerated claims.
I agree with you that there's almost no chance this was Athiests...however, simply because an individual has no religeous belief does not mean that they are a completely rational human being...or rational at all for that matter. I have met plenty of nutcases from EVERY religeous background...including people with no religeous background.
The religeous aren't the only ones with strong beliefs...however...doesn't mean we all can't play alot nicer than this.
Or make the sim-serial killer. Invite people over and quick throw a wall up around them. They eventually starve to death and die in their little prison.
Actually there was a time before a patch came out that the repairment could electrocute himself and haunt your house too...which was REALLY cool btw.
There's a wired article the some guy pointed to on K5 a few days back. It's interesting at least.
A few of the points are (taken from wiredog's post) :
1). Microsoft can't give discounts to hardware or software developers in exchange for promoting or distributing other Microsoft products
2.) state and federal government lawyers may come onto Microsoft's campus to "inspect and copy" any document or file they find relevant.
3.) Microsoft would have to monitor all changes it makes to all versions of Windows and track any alterations that would "degrade the performance of" any third-party application.
And yeah....your paranoid. MS is not a government puppet, nor will it be. With an egomaniac like Gates at the helm, do you honestly think that would happen for one second? Even if they TRIED to make that happen, they could just jump a few miles north and run in Canada (a town up there even INVITED them to come there to escape our Government's prosecution) Seriously...reality and your paranoia don't have THAT much in common.
And for the record: Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly is another Clinton Appointee. It's not like this is being handed to some terrible REPUBLICAN or something. (pardon my language...the bias here is thick enough to cut with a knife.)
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Nice strawman arguement. That's almost by the book.
Strawman: Arguing against a position by creating a different, weaker, or irrelevant position and refuting that new position instead of the original.
Of COURSE the cases you stated would be wrong and horrible things...a complete fucking idiot could see that. However...those are VERY different things than not using frontpage to make an anti-ms site...which actually doesn't even turn out to be the case anyways. Read the update on slashdot's front page. The point is, is that if you don't agree with the license...don't buy the fucking product. The license is a part of the product you bought...and if it isn't, then Linux is in trouble, because Linux depends on a certain license agreement too, like any operating system really. Personally, I like BSD's license, but that's just my humble opinion. Not buying it will create pressure to change it...if we don't buy it, they don't survive.
The whole arguement is pretty silly now anyways...read the update.
It's owned a run by humans. They have rights. Are you saying they can't do what they want with their property?
And what kind of things do you say when people tell you that YOU can't do what you want with YOUR property?
I am sick and tired of everyone who wants the Government to beat Microsoft down, when they have the right to sell their product however the hell they choose. What about THEIR rights? Sure...it's total bullshit...which brings me to the solution:
You can choose NOT to use it. Seriously. Quit complaining about rights and vote with your money. If they want your money, M$ has to play by your rules. If people aren't smart enough to vote with their money, they have no one to blame with themselves.
BTW...shouldn't an anti MS person use a non-MS OS and editor anyways? vi works great!
You say he has a lack of a coherent plan....but if you were leading a military movement, would you be disclosing your exact plans to the global media? There's a slight logic flaw there. The bad guys get CNN too.
As for WHY we are doing it...if you can't figure that out yet, then I don't know what to tell you...but as usual...I'll try. First - When Bin Laden attacked the WTC, he didn't just kill Americans. He killed literally HUNDREDS of foreigners. (60-100 Canadians, ~100 Britons, 140 New Zealanders were still missing, as many as 250 to 300 Indians could be missing. Forty-one others had been hospitalized, and the list goes on and on. There were even Islamic people in there! The point is, is that these terrorists are completely mad. They have made it apparent that they will kill anyone, as long as they kill American's too. Even if I did something wrong as an American (which is another debatable subject), why in the hell should the guy next to me pay for it? THAT is a bigger attack on freedom and liberties than anything...it's often the death penalty - and for no reason. That's a pretty damn strong reason to take the man out in my opinion...and it makes it pretty clear that he is not a rational being to me. He's charismatic and well spoken...but completely fucking nuts. He attacked on American soil...but it's the WORLD trade center...and there are many hundreds of casualties from all over the planet. When Bin Laden went for the embassy's in Africa he also took out ALOT more Africans than he did Americans. He's a problem to more than just us here....those people had nothing to do with what he's bitching about.
And exactly how do you know ANYTHING about what Bush's plans or lack of plans are? Is mind reading another one of your strong points? Bush himself probably isn't making the exact military plans himself anyways...that's what the the military and it's leaders and strategists are for.
Ok...who's proposing internment camps then? I'd really like to know....
But when we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won.
No...when we are dead they win. They are trying to kill us, remember? Not deprive your precious ass of it's "civil liberties".
some simple wiretapping. If you are ready to throw the 1984 arguement, you'd better have more than some privacy complaints to back it up...because if that's all you've got, then you haven't READ 1984.
News that Bush has decided to launch a crusade on a terrorist jihad do not fill me with hope that this will be the case.
He didn't launch a "crusade on a terrorist jihad". He is on a crusade against terrorism, which actually has no religeous connotation whatsoever. The terrorists are the ones trying to make a religeous pissing match out of it, by trying to call a Jihad against us.
He hasn't got papal sanction, and we aren't trying to take back "the holy land"....(Those are the two religeous oriented definitions of the word.) Seriously...check your dictionary for the OTHER meaning(s).
I REALLY wish more people would be a little more objective about their judgement of the man and take his words for the spirit of what's in them, rather than trying to find the worst interpretation to back up their already warped view of the guy. The biases here are so strong, that objective thinking can't happen...it's almost laughable. People here have such open minds...except for all that stuff they are closed-minded too anyways...
Actually...thank you for backing that up, and giving a good explanation. Even so, I am skeptical, as they have positive identification on many of the people involved. From airport survielance cameras, to the passport they found, to their travel/immagration records....these look to be people affiliated with Bin Laden. They have many of the people positively identified...and they are known to have ties. One confusing bit, should be investigated - yes, but the standing evidence is a bit too strong to cast aside very easily.
Saddam and the Taleban are the ones who are MAKING those countries poor. Stabilizing the politcal climate is unfortunately going to require some extermination first....dictator aren't going to just let change happen freely...especially when it robs them of absolute power...and they have their populations so brainwashed that it would never be very easy. They will resist too, in thinking their leaders are right. Even if we give them all the money in the world, they will think it was their leaders who made it possible by getting it out of us.
ObL has got 300 million in the bank. He'd rather try to blow us to hell with it than try to help his own people. You can do ALOT with 300 million...if you wanted to.
Yes...start giving money to those nations and groups who would harm us. Way to discourage terrorists!
Oh pulease....how about some links and hard info...everything so far is pointing to Bin Laden's network...EVERYTHING. (Guess that's all part of the setup now right? Sometimes things are actually what they seem!)
With this 60 billion dollars could we start enough "rebuilding" efforts in Afgan, Iraq, and Palestine to turn would-be terriorists into brick-layers?
An Idealist would say so...and realist however would probably think otherwise.
Even beyond that...how would that work? Ok..you killed a few thousand of our people and took out two huge buildings...but here's a few billion, lets fix you right up! Umm....no. I am not opposed to helping them...but not until those repsonsible are 6 feet under.
This is getting old fast. At least put something other than that tired phrase and your signature in the friggin post.
I love it. So far...the truth to this post has gotten it modded to flamebait. Mod it up and let the rabid liberals (kinda like the rabid conservatives you bash so much here...only different), deal with the truth.
Right now it's just tasteless....seriously. Grow up.
Hmm...sheep-like? Sure...whatever you say.
Actually...I honestly do not care if they do see my email. Firstly - there are BILLIONS of emails sent daily...if you think there's a guy at a desk just waiting for you to send one so he can read it, don't flatter yourself. They'd need to hire 80% of the people of China to even come close to pulling that off. More than likely, they are watching individuals that the international intelligence community already knows as suspected terrorists, or terrorist affiliates. They might even learn of other people involved from those emails. Secondly...I don't really fucking care one bit about what I am emailing and who see's it. Heck...anyone with admin access on a box at your ISP can go poking through your email on a whim if he/she is bored enough. Why aren't we all crying our eyes out over this potential gross violation of our civil rights? What they heck could anyone possibly care about in my email? Half of it is spam anyways, and my casual correspondances are relatively inremarkable. (Relatively speaking anyways. I am generally not swapping terrorism techniques.) Heck...anyone sniffing some packets on your ISP's ISP can probably watch what your up to too....Waaa.
I am sick and tired of the paranoid lemming mentality just as much as the sheep mentality. The real problem is finding a balance with it all. I think there are some rights that shouldn't be tampered with...I REALLY think they shouldn't be. I think speech should remain as free as it is now...although I am not going to go pitying anyone who goes cracking jokes over this who happens to get the crap kicked out of them. Frankly...that's a darwin award issue as far as I am concerned.
Gee...hiding? Yeah...that's because he was a prime target. Guiliani wasn't. There's a big difference right there. When you add to that, the fact that he's a MUCH more juicy target to someone who wants to do damage, if you had any wits about you, you'd be hiding too. Would the whole world change if Guiliani was killed? Not like it would if they managed to kill an American president.
I hate to seem like I am always backing Bush up here, as I don't think he is perfect by any means...but get a grip...seriously. He hasn't done anything differently than what I think ANY other president would have done...and once the immediate danger cleared...he IS out and about and amoung the people again. If I recall correctly, I heard that he's actually going to NY today himself to see things in person.
So far...I am behind everything he's done about this.
Only one problem. George W. Bush isn't repsonsible for Hiroshima or Vietnam...and as for his father and the sanctions with the people of Iraq...well...Iraq probably could have fed ALOT more of them if they weren't trying to make chemical weapons, nukes, and stock up on every piece of military hardware anyone is crazy enough to sell them.
As for Hiroshima...look up what the Japenese were doing with anyone who surrendered to them. Raping civilians (and forced 'comfort women' for their soldiers...on a HUGE scale...which was pretty much the wholesale rape of the mothers, wives and daughters of the losers), murdering civilians, murdering those who surrendered in cold blood, and if you got a quick death you were lucky as alot of it was from literal torture....and believe me...I am not going into ALOT of gory details for the sake of being brief here. This was not a few isolated incidents...this was their way. They were about as brutal as you can be about it. They were commiting crimes against humanity LONG before we struck back with ours...and yes...in my opinion: they had it coming. I'd go as far as to say they got off easy.
Vietnam? Don't get me started...the arguements on either side of that will be going on for alot longer than I'll be on this earth...and neither side will ever be 100% right.
Don't get me wrong...my heart goes out to the muslims who are going to take abuse for the actions of a few zealots...but don't kid yourself about the past actions of this country...American's have generally did what they knew as best at the time...and more often than not, they were justified. Out of the things you listed...Vietnam is the only point I'll give you as debatable.
rofl...again...put some substance behind your words. Everything you've stated is your own small minded opinion, and it's not impressing me. Someone who goofs up some sentences != stupid.
Hey...it's kinda a strawman argument to say this, but Stephen Hawking doesn't talk so well either. My point is this: There's ALOT more to intelligence than what you sound like. Alot of people have minds that work alot faster than their mouths do.
Bush might not be a rocket scientist...but get real and give credit where it's due....he's NOT as bad as so many of these idiotic exaggerated claims.
I agree with you that there's almost no chance this was Athiests...however, simply because an individual has no religeous belief does not mean that they are a completely rational human being...or rational at all for that matter. I have met plenty of nutcases from EVERY religeous background...including people with no religeous background.
The religeous aren't the only ones with strong beliefs...however...doesn't mean we all can't play alot nicer than this.
er...repairment = repairman. Going for more caffine now.
Or make the sim-serial killer. Invite people over and quick throw a wall up around them. They eventually starve to death and die in their little prison.
Actually there was a time before a patch came out that the repairment could electrocute himself and haunt your house too...which was REALLY cool btw.
Yeah...that part of it is probably a sore spot for MS...but I imagine there will be files that aren't so easily found in there. :)
There's a wired article the some guy pointed to on K5 a few days back. It's interesting at least.
A few of the points are (taken from wiredog's post) :
1). Microsoft can't give discounts to hardware or software developers in exchange for promoting or distributing other Microsoft products
2.) state and federal government lawyers may come onto Microsoft's campus to "inspect and copy" any document or file they find relevant.
3.) Microsoft would have to monitor all changes it makes to all versions of Windows and track any alterations that would "degrade the performance of" any third-party application.
And yeah....your paranoid. MS is not a government puppet, nor will it be. With an egomaniac like Gates at the helm, do you honestly think that would happen for one second? Even if they TRIED to make that happen, they could just jump a few miles north and run in Canada (a town up there even INVITED them to come there to escape our Government's prosecution) Seriously...reality and your paranoia don't have THAT much in common.
And for the record: Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly is another Clinton Appointee. It's not like this is being handed to some terrible REPUBLICAN or something. (pardon my language...the bias here is thick enough to cut with a knife.)