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Creative Games sans Violence?

jolyon_jnr asks: "I'm looking for games to use in an unusual educational setting: a school within a Juvenile Detention Centre. I don't set policy, so the 'no violence' is a fixed criteria. I want to engage students' creativity and problem solving skills, without using 'boring educational software'. I've thought of Lemmings and The Incredible Machine. What other suggestions can you offer? Please bear in mind that most students have very low literacy levels, but will learn if motivated sufficiently."

604 comments

  1. Suggestion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Try Reader Rabbit! I played it in elementary school. It was fun. Violent anti-social criminals should love it!

    1. Re:Suggestion by Sucuriju+Gigante · · Score: 2, Informative

      I would suggest pinball simulations, especially those by Cunning Development. They've written four so far, universally excellent. The titles in the series are:

      Pro Pinball: The Web
      Pro Pinball: Timeshock!
      Pro Pinball: Big Race USA
      Pro Pinball: Fantastic Journey

    2. Re:Suggestion by kilgore_47 · · Score: 1

      The question doesn't mention what platform they want to run the games on, but on the *slim* chance its macs I'd sugest JumpZampoli. It's a non violent and somewhat addictive game.

      --
      ___
      The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason. --Ben Franklin
    3. Re:Suggestion by kilgore_47 · · Score: 1

      ...and I forgot the link: http://www.rampzamp.com/

      should've previewed, i know....

      --
      ___
      The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason. --Ben Franklin
    4. Re:Suggestion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      Try not spending my tax money so criminals can play video games. Maybe they should try reading a book.

  2. hmmm by TechnoVooDooDaddy · · Score: 3, Informative

    any of the Sim-lines (SimCity, SimRollercoaster, SimGolf, etc..)

    1. Re:hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sim-City ?
      These riots and the alien monster in SimCity 2000 weren't violence ?

    2. Re:hmmm by Blob+Pet · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Ah, but SimCity had evil monsters that ravaged cites, and crazy, pixel-sized rioters who set fires who could only be stopped by sending in the police or the military.

      --
      "...today consumers have been conditioned to think of beer when they see a bullfrog..."
    3. Re:hmmm by Sir_Real · · Score: 2

      And the Lemmings had SUICIDAL RODENTS THAT EXPLODED ON IMPACT WITH THE GROUND! Apparently tehre is SOME leeway...

    4. Re:hmmm by garcia · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I wonder if The Sims would have a good or bad impact on them. Would they want to have the families fail and fight or would they learn from the positive growth of the people within the game?

      It would be interesting to see how each child would react.

    5. Re:hmmm by gwallen3141 · · Score: 1

      The poser of the question didn't specify the context in which the games would be used. It sounds like this might be better suited to a psych/clinical environment rather than as a distraction for their free time.

    6. Re:hmmm by ct · · Score: 2

      Don't tell me I'm the only one who built up a metropolis only to save it then unleash my choice of natural disaster again & again.

      Godzilla & a twister going head to head was always entertaining for about 3 minutes...

      //ct

    7. Re:hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rollercoaster/Railroad Tycoon are great non-violent games that build real-life skills.

    8. Re:hmmm by allism · · Score: 1

      Uhhh...you can still kill people in RCT...matter of fact, one of the scenarios is designed with several rides that kill their riders already in place...if you don't stop the rides immediately, you kill several dozen people.

    9. Re:hmmm by agdv · · Score: 1

      Yes, I remember getting a whole lot of lemmings on a small place, then making them all explode at the same time. Pretty cool, but could be considered violent.
      BTW, did anybody else find the level codes extremely easy to crack?

    10. Re:hmmm by Jaysyn · · Score: 1

      We played SimCity one period a day for a whole semester in (public) High School. This was supposed to teach us planning and organization skills. I don't think that the game did it by itself, but I'm still pretty organized 7 years later.

      Jaysyn

      --
      There is a war going on for your mind.
    11. Re:hmmm by cybrthng · · Score: 2

      It is still fun to build a whole city and then turn on all disasters and monsters only to watch it burn to hell :)

    12. Re:hmmm by Unknown+Bovine+Group · · Score: 1, Funny

      Now there's a game idea!

      SimJail

      Do you save up your cigarettes and buy a shiv from Jimmy the Rat?

      Or maybe you better invest in some Vaseline in case Big Bubba Love decides you'd make a "damn perty bitch".

      --
      m00.
    13. Re:hmmm by DThorne · · Score: 1

      Even though my initial reaction was to support The Sims, in retrospect I think perhaps not, for a couple of reasons:
      On more than one occasion, I've heard wags refer to the game as a "yuppie simulator". Not entirely incorrect, and it's likely that kids from difficult circumstances will probably not relate to the cutesy consumerism inherent in the game.
      Because it *is* really a simulation (regardless of what you may think it's simulating), I can see it being misused, despite the good intentions of the original poster. I wonder how long before some management person looks over the shoulder of a kid trying to fry some yuppies in a hot tub with a toaster and makes a judgement on the kid. Hell, that's the first thing I tried to do! :)

      D.T.

    14. Re:hmmm by RovingSlug · · Score: 1
      "good or bad impact on them"

      "want to have the families fail and fight or would they learn from the positive growth of the people within the game"

      You seem to have quickly and easily made the assumption that experimenting with making families fail would result in a "bad impact". I don't see why this is the case. Do you have any justification?

    15. Re:hmmm by alienated · · Score: 1
      kids do amazing things with Sim City because they don't care about the rules.

      i've seen kids figure out how to do all sorts of weird stuff, like trap trains on tiny little circular tracks, build cities out of (almost) nothing but highways and police stations, and so on.

      give them something that's modular -- the digital equivalent of Lego -- and your head will spin at what they create. in fact, any game with a level editor (from something as simple as Lode Runner to something as complicated as Quake) and you'll have them headed down the road to real programming before they've figured out that you've tricked them into learning.

      --
      ----- Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas. --Army of Darkness
    16. Re:hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HAHAHA! Fantastic!

    17. Re:hmmm by delcielo · · Score: 1

      Well, one of the benefits of the sim series is that it teaches some cause and effect; and could also impart some sense of the necessity for order in a society/microcosm. For juvenile defenders, this is probably the thing they lack most.

      --
      Hot Damn! It's the Soggy Bottom Boys!
    18. Re:hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or any sort of flight simulator.

    19. Re:hmmm by Bugmaster · · Score: 1
      SimEarth, for sure. I can't count the number of hours I spent on that game, even though I could barely red English.


      Come to think of it, I learned English basically by playing Wizardry VII and Matrix Cubed, so adventure games may be a good choice as well... Since they are based entirely around literacy :-)

      --
      >|<*:=
    20. Re:hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or load the city up in sim copter and shoot it all down with the apache.

    21. Re:hmmm by sketerpot · · Score: 1
      There are a lot of nasty things you can do to the Sims, like locking guests in little chambers you just made, or placing the only toilet in the front yard. Or you could simply not build a toilet at all. Don't these count as violent?

      Of course, if you don't have a slightly violent personality, you wouldn't do these things. Still, it's enough for some of the crazier people yo pounce on.

    22. Re:hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Better not give them crayons, either. They could draw pictures of bombs, and they'd have a hard time relating to wax wrapped in paper, given their backgrounds. Better safe than sorry. Got to protect people from themselves!!!

    23. Re:hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The point about The Sims, is that you are actually confronted with the emotional effects of your "violence". If you kill someone, everyone else in the household mourns, and it takes time away from their normal daily activities of shitting, showering, eating, and going to work. It teaches empathy, and identification with other people, which can't be said for Quake.

    24. Re:hmmm by Squeeze+Truck · · Score: 2

      Have you noticed that you can really get ahead quickly in the Sims if you decide to make every adult both bisexual and extremely promiscuous?

      Hell, given enough time on autosim, all your sims will both:
      a) lose their jobs and
      b) turn gay.

      This wouldn't ordinarily bother me, but it really pissed me off when I try to do a simulation of my own family and I catch my mother making out with my sister.

      --

      "Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao

  3. Mindrover by Evangelion · · Score: 5, Interesting


    Cognitoy makes an excellent (and engrossing) game called Mindrover, in which you have to design and program a vehicular robot to do certain things (follow waypoints, chase another robot, or destroy the opposing robot).

    I don't know if a vehicle-on-vehicle rocket launcher qualifies as 'violence' or not (since these are very clearly toy robots going at it), but it's certainly an awesome game, even apart from it's educational value.

    Loki has also ported it to Linux, and thier port is flawless.

    1. Re:Mindrover by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      there is a playstation game similar to mindrover called "carnage heart" - don't let the name get to you, it's strictly mech on mech combat. emphasis on programming your mechs and getting your team of three to work together

    2. Re:Mindrover by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If Loki has a port of the game you might be able to disable the battle option for the game.

    3. Re:Mindrover by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Zankoku na tenshi no youni
      Shounen yo shinwa ni nare!

    4. Re:Mindrover by DrPascal · · Score: 1

      One of the greatest anime ever.

      --
      DrPascal: Not the language, the mathematician.
    5. Re:Mindrover by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's too bad most people in there will be morons! Or else they could take advantage of it!

  4. I know it sucks, but... by Spagornasm · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Did you consider any of the Myst series? Those can engage the eye candy requirement, and also help them develop complex problem solving skills...that is, if they understand different bases and number theory :-)...

    --

    When nuance becomes the only objective we lose the ability to function
    1. Re:I know it sucks, but... by Strog · · Score: 1

      I was going to suggest Riven but your post covered it well enough. I really wish there were more games like this to play when I don't feel like fragging.

    2. Re:I know it sucks, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why it sucks? The Myst series is a great one. -Myst3:Exile- is maybe the easiest and the more accessible for the no-geek population.

    3. Re:I know it sucks, but... by Spagornasm · · Score: 1

      The reason I said it sucks is because I found them ultimately frustrating (I'm speaking from Myst I and II). It was just a bunch of slide shows leading up to extraordinarily complex puzzles to solve (and rediculously small windows for watching videos). I guess it was just the level of the puzzles that got to me (I was like 12 at the time) - I didn't get using different bases for numbers, or using a tape recorder to remember the specific sequence of tone required to unlock a door 25 static screens away...it seemed pointless after a while.

      --

      When nuance becomes the only objective we lose the ability to function
    4. Re:I know it sucks, but... by TrippTDF · · Score: 1

      This is changing the subject a little bit- but staying on the topic of non-violent video games; How much of a market is there? I am in the very early stages of creating a video game as part of a class (gotta love liberal arts colleges...) and I keep hoping that we can create something along the lines of the Myst series- interactive, engaging, immersive and fun. But look at the market right now. There is nothing that does not have an emphasis on violence.

      Violence, or rather, conflict, is at the nature of a story, whether it's a person versus another person, or a person versus the unknown, there is always a conflict.

      Unfortunately, video games are primarily concerned with violent conflict. Although there was an element of it in the Myst games, they did a good job of keeping it minimal. Now we need more games like that exploring conflict in a non-violent way. Maybe adapt some Jane Austin books to games...

    5. Re:I know it sucks, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Along the same lines as Myst, I would recomment Sanitarium. Very spooky and a bit disturbing, but has some good puzzles and a good story.

    6. Re:I know it sucks, but... by Nate+Fox · · Score: 3, Insightful

      How much of a market is there? I am in the very early stages of creating a video game as part of a class (gotta love liberal arts colleges...) and I keep hoping that we can create something along the lines of the Myst series- interactive, engaging, immersive and fun. But look at the market right now. There is nothing that does not have an emphasis on violence.

      It seems to me to be a bit nearsighted to say that all the games out have an emphasis on violence. When, in fact, some of the top selling games of ALL TIME have been those with the least violence. Myst was #1 for something like 2 years, even though DOOM, Quake, and others came and went. Then Roller Coaster Tycoon came around, and it camped out on the top of the list for quite some time. Now, I'm no game expert, but I know there's almost always one or two games that are in the top 10 of the month that are not based around violence. Even to the extent of something like Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 1/2, or even Gran Tourismo. Granted, they aren't quite what you're talking about (I'm much more inclined to play mind games than coordination games - thats why I play sports in Real LifeTM), but they're non-violent alternatives.

      By the way - PLEASE continue to develop your game. We need more Mystish games. Don't let numbers discourage you! Where would we be if Linus looked at the market share of MS/Novell (10 years ago), and said, "Screw it - whats the point? It'll never be that widely used."

    7. Re:I know it sucks, but... by pixel_bc · · Score: 1

      When, in fact, some of the top selling games of ALL TIME have been those with the least violence. Myst was #1 for something like 2 years, even though DOOM, Quake, and others

      I'd hestitate to equate non-violence with "best seller" - what made those games reletively successful was the fact the target hardware was already widely deployed - you didn't need a $600 card to make it work. I'm sure had they been violent, yet run on a 486, it would sell just as well.

    8. Re:I know it sucks, but... by divbyzero · · Score: 1

      Not an answer for the original poster, since it is definitely not appropriate for the illiterate, but there is actually a whole genre of games which might match your interests, Strog.

      These are the seemingly archaic text adventures, sometimes called interactive fiction. They certainly don't have the slideshow feel of games in the Myst series, but they involve the exact same type of exploring and puzzle solving. Although there are traditional hack-and-slash dungeon games in this genre, there are also lots of nonviolent ones, with various themes and settings.

      Most of the games are freely available (see the link above), and run on a virtual machine, so you can play them on the OS of your choice.

      --
      But my grandest creation, as history will tell,
      Was Firefrorefiddle, the Fiend of the Fell.
    9. Re:I know it sucks, but... by Arandir · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well, if you don't make any mistakes in the Myst games, there is no physical violence (other than an occasional imprisonment). But if you make a mistake, watch out!

      In Riven you can get shot dead. In Exile you get your brains bashed in.

      I just finished playing Exile a few days ago. I made a mistake. I trusted the poor guy. Then he rushes up and bashes my brains in with a stone axe. The rest of the game was quite peaceful, mellow, psychodelic, etc, so when this happened it was quite a shock. Very violent in the context of the game.

      --
      A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
    10. Re:I know it sucks, but... by nomadic · · Score: 2

      Where would we be if Linus looked at the market share of MS/Novell (10 years ago), and said, "Screw it - whats the point? It'll never be that widely used."

      We'd probably be using FreeBSD. Or minix. Or HURD would probably be mature by now if linux wasn't around.

  5. Old games are still the best by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What about chess or go ?

  6. Low literacy levels? by liquidweb · · Score: 5, Interesting

    To suggest a solution as well as a direct statement of their literacy, I'd suggest anything in the "You Don't Know Jack" series. Seriously though good stuff.

    --
    --- Matthew Hill
    "To quote the self is an act of the self riteous and uninitiated sub-moronic" - Matthew Hill
    1. Re:Low literacy levels? by JabberWokky · · Score: 5, Interesting
      The biggest problem with any trivia game is that it requires that you learn the trivia in your own time, and it does not really teach any information.

      Having taught in a "school within a school", I can tell you that what seems to work for your mental frame does not translate. That is *not* to say that the students are dumb... in fact, some of the single mothers and drug addicts (yes, Florida throws them in together; genius) are well read and/or were good students before they entered the alternative systems. Also, they get all the nice new computer systems.

      There is hope for these kids, but even more than "mainstream" students, you have to focus on their individual issues. And (and I hate this as much as you do), you have to pick which ones to give up on to focus on the ones you *can* help.

      Bah - there's a reason I *used* to teach. Maybe I will again... but not until I feel I can do it without becoming irrevocably cynical.

      --
      Evan

      --
      "$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
  7. hmm by NevarMore · · Score: 0, Troll

    What about Axis & Allies? It's a strategy game based on WWII.

    And are there any rules against pornograhpic games?

  8. Lemmings is "no-violence"? by kaisyain · · Score: 3, Informative

    I guess you forget the part where they all explode. If that counts as "no-violence" you should have very little problem finding games.

    Or you could try any of the many puzzle games out there: Tetris, Bust-A-Move, etc. There are plenty of adventure games that don't feature violence, as well.

    1. Re:Lemmings is "no-violence"? by dalinian · · Score: 2, Funny

      Explode? That's not violence, that's just cute! "Oh no!" *dopdopdopdopdopdopdop* :-)

    2. Re:Lemmings is "no-violence"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to mention that many Lemmings commit suicide rather messily, by jumping to their deaths. I guess different people have different ideas about what counts as violence.

    3. Re:Lemmings is "no-violence"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      If that counts as "no-violence" you should have very little problem finding games.


      E.G. Paintball mods of Quake...

    4. Re:Lemmings is "no-violence"? by Darth+RadaR · · Score: 1

      There is a sick pleasure to be had when you cram the lemmings in one small space and nuking them to watch the lemming corpses fly about.

      --
      /*drunk.. fix later*/
    5. Re:Lemmings is "no-violence"? by zurmikopa · · Score: 1

      Good god, lemmings is one of the most violent games I've ever played. Exploding bodies, falling off clifs, things that smoosh them into a bloody pulp, and you can't forget the hanging machines. Then of cource in some versions there was multiplayer where you could go and try and slaughter the other player's lemmings. In few other games is total genocide always only 1 click away.

    6. Re:Lemmings is "no-violence"? by SuperDope · · Score: 1

      WORMS ARMAGEDDON BABY!!!

      Granted that the worms explode when they die, but its still cute, very addictive and intellectual(somewhat). Using grenades takes some getting used to. :)

      (Too bad Max Payne has alot of violence. But its a great game. :P)

      --
      - "hehehe...You said boobies..."
  9. Some Examples by MarcoAtWork · · Score: 3, Informative

    Sim City 3000 (or 2000 if your hardware is not powerful enough)

    Rollercoaster Tycoon (my wife's favorite)

    Railroad Tycoon II

    --
    -- the cake is a lie
    1. Re:Some Examples by MarcoAtWork · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But....

      any of the games could be used to simulate violence (even the ones you suggested)

      in TIM you can do nasty things to cats, mice and fishes
      in lemmings you can nuke them all
      in SimCity you can build a city and destroy it
      in RCT you can build rollercoasters that crash
      I assume that in RRT you can get trains to crash as well

      Please take this into consideration when picking your title. Note, I am NOT saying that people would use the games to do these things, but the possibility is there, and if it happens you (or whomever approved the games) might have some explaining to do, so I suggest that in your proposal you explain that creative games could *theoretically* be used to simulate violence, even if that's obviously not the aim of the game itself.

      --
      -- the cake is a lie
    2. Re:Some Examples by big_cat79 · · Score: 1

      I don't think destroying a city in SimCity would be considered violent. Sure, the act of destroying a city, when taken at face value, and with no context, it seems violent. But they way they can be destroyed in SimCity is relevant. They are through natural disasters and a monster. Human beings don't have control over natural phenomena and Godzilla is a product of imagination. It's not like say, Unreal Tournament, where a kid really could climb a tower with a sniper rifle and start shooting people.

      --

      BigCat79

      "The dead have risen and are voting Republican!" --Bart Simpson
    3. Re:Some Examples by repoman44 · · Score: 1

      I don't remember the name, but I used to play this game on my old apple II that taught you very basic circuit design with and/or/not etc.. gates. It had a pretty decent graphics, and I learned something to boot.

    4. Re:Some Examples by WesternActor · · Score: 1

      The game you're thinking of is Rocky's Boots. And a great game it was! I learned a lot of stuff from that game back when I was younger. But that was back when edutainment software was both educational and entertaining, something that's much harder to find today!

      --

      --Matthew
      "If the lights of Broadway blind me, I won't mind..."
    5. Re:Some Examples by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've not heard of Rocky's Boots. Robot Odyssey is the only game I know of that is like that. It was a great game. I just wish I could get the emulator to work right on my computer so I can play it.

    6. Re:Some Examples by divbyzero · · Score: 1

      They're both excellent games, written by the same authors. Robot Odyssey is sort of an expanded, more difficult versio of Rocky's Boots.

      --
      But my grandest creation, as history will tell,
      Was Firefrorefiddle, the Fiend of the Fell.
    7. Re:Some Examples by coasterfreak · · Score: 1
      Grim Fandango and the Monkey Island series should be good they both provide good problem solving skills and build upon situational skills . . .


      Say you're a pirate wannabe and you wanna learn how to be a pirate . . . or you Die and wanna find yourway to the best level of the afterlife

      --
      Your pain is funny
    8. Re:Some Examples by szap · · Score: 1
      Rollercoaster Tycoon


      RCT's predecessor, Transport Tycoon was very, very good as well. Dated, but it still runs well on both new and old computers (with DOS). Maybe you could contact Chris Sawyer (the creator) to see if he can release an official stripped down version or release the old version for free ala the old Dooms and Quake. Good publicity too. *hint, hint*
  10. Oregon trail. by Bad_CRC · · Score: 5, Funny

    Worked great for us oldtimers. :D

    1. Re:Oregon trail. by NetJunkie · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Someone should do a survey to see what percentage of current IT (in the right age range) staff played Oregon Trail in school as a kid. I bet it's at least 90%.

      I know I did...and almost bought the newer release a while back just for fun.

    2. Re:Oregon trail. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I played that too.. you had to kill animals for food. That's violent. Might make you want to hunt and, "God forbid", kill creatures for _food_. Then where would we be?

      --Loco3KGT

    3. Re:Oregon trail. by stripey357 · · Score: 1

      This was a great game. But you do get to shoot at deer. Not sure if that's violent enough to break the policy.

    4. Re:Oregon trail. by colonial_taxman · · Score: 1

      I wonder how many of the intended audience would "try" to let their sister get scurvy.

    5. Re:Oregon trail. by invisik · · Score: 0

      Whoa, break out your Apple ][e ! That was a good game...

      --
      http://www.invisik.com
    6. Re:Oregon trail. by xTown · · Score: 1
      I think the more accurate question might be "who played Oregon Trail just for the hunting". I know I did--and that was as an adult, mind you, when I was working for a School District that had OT installed on several computers.


      :)

    7. Re:Oregon trail. by Anixamander · · Score: 1

      What a great game...although aside from teaching them that if they don't bathe they will die from a snakebite, I'm not sure how much this will help.

      --
      Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball(TM)
    8. Re:Oregon trail. by esper_child · · Score: 1

      If you call not shooting animals for food violent, or did you end up like the Donner party :). Oregon Trail: the first hunting game (and only good one)

    9. Re:Oregon trail. by big_cat79 · · Score: 1

      Shoot, until I got to my junior and senior years in high school (I graduated in 97) where i was in the graphic arts program, Oregon Trail was the only thing we did on computers. In History it would be like "Ok. This week is our computer introduction week. We'll be going to the computer lab every day. You will play Oregon Trail, to 1) give you computer skills to apply to your future careers and 2) give you a bit of historical perspective on frontier life. Any questions?" This is why my kids will be home-schooled.

      --

      BigCat79

      "The dead have risen and are voting Republican!" --Bart Simpson
    10. Re:Oregon trail. by operagost · · Score: 1

      It was really lame when my classmates decided to play it "shaky knees".

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    11. Re:Oregon trail. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is why my kids will be home-schooled.

      And why your kids will be fags.
    12. Re:Oregon trail. by rohdem · · Score: 1

      On the old Apple IIe, your hunting success was determined by how fast you could type BANG!!

      Man, that was a great game!!!

    13. Re:Oregon trail. by carleton · · Score: 1

      I'm curious... did the people who did it just for the hunting use that funky square array of keys? I would normally use the arrows; never could get the hang of the other layout (that let you rotate quicker I think). Of course, thanks to Nethack, I'm now pretty proficient with vi's funky layout.

    14. Re:Oregon trail. by BombTechnician · · Score: 1

      We played OT for a long time. Untill someone found a hacked version of Grand Theft Auto (no cd required).... there was no going back

      ahh... i still fondly recal the netgames of blowing the crap out of each other

      a bit counter productive to this though

      --

      If you see me running, try and keep up
      There's a good chance I don't know what the hell I'm talking about
    15. Re:Oregon trail. by soulsteal · · Score: 2


      You are out of food
      Marsha has died of tuberculosis
      Do you want to ford the river or wait? [F/w]

    16. Re:Oregon trail. by Strog · · Score: 1

      That was a later version of OT. Used to have to just time it with the space bar when they ran in front of you. That walking around and aiming seemed a lot easier when the new version came out.

    17. Re:Oregon trail. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can pick up lots of interesting things at the General Store, including opium and guns. (Hint: the opium is useful if someone gets cholera.) The folks running the detention center may not care for that.

    18. Re:Oregon trail. by neurovish · · Score: 1

      I dunno, we did some pretty sadistic and cruel things to the Oregon Trail characters...a favorite of ours was to get the farmer, give him no food, and set him at a grueling pace attempting to ford(sp?) every river to see how long until they died. There's also that whole hunting aspect of the game.

    19. Re:Oregon trail. by pherthyl · · Score: 1

      oh god I loved that game..

      In elementary we used to fight over the two 8086s so we could play all recess and lunch...

    20. Re:Oregon trail. by carleton · · Score: 1

      Hmm... I had the apple iie version. I guess I'm not quite as old school as I thought. The downside of having to walk and aim being that half the time you started in some corner surrounded by trees that stopped all bullets entering the rectangular shape around the tree and by the time you walked out of there, several deer/bear/buffalo had ambled by the top of the screen.

  11. Old board games: by pallex · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Chess, backgammon, go.
    Scrabble, trivial pursuit.
    Kensington (if thats available in computer form)

    1. Re:Old board games: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Although based on warfare, all the old Avalon Hill and SPI (and others) games are very good at teaching kids arithmetical skills, strategy and tactics, and how to consume hours! at your favorite hobby.

    2. Re:Old board games: by Zachary+Kessin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      A study done a few years ago showed that High School kids (It may have been Jr High) that were on a Chess team "The Raging Rooks" Did better on tests and got better grades than average. Chess is a good thing to teach kids. And lets face it in 50 or 60 years will anyone still know what SimCity is? People will still be playing chess which in one form or another has been around for 1000+ years.

      --
      Erlang Developer and podcaster
    3. Re:Old board games: by smaughster · · Score: 1

      Or in similar terms: Othello/Reversi. A board game that is very simple to learn, also not too hard to become quite proficient, but takes forever to master even though you keep improving. Plus it has very nice practice programs for free (as in beer).

      For more info: www.othello.nl/indexuk.html and for the program: use google with keyword wzebra.

      --
      I intend to live forever, so far so good.
    4. Re:Old board games: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, lets teach a bunch of homicidal maniacs war stategy, skills and tactics!

      That way they'll know the best way to aproach their targets, the best gun to use to kill them, and how to get away with it after!

      While we're at it, why not send them on Marine sniper patrol, and teach them gun maintenance?

      Dumbass.

    5. Re:Old board games: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      A study done a few years ago showed that High School kids (It may have been Jr High) that were on a Chess team "The Raging Rooks" Did better on tests and got better grades than average.

      And that, class, is a perfect example of the post hoc ergo prompter hoc (after it, therefore because of it) fallacy.

      Did it ever occur to you that kids that voluntarily join a High School/Jr. High chess club aren't average to begin with? A better explanation for the effect you describe is that those people who are more likely to study, pay attention in class, and actually do the assignments (all attributes that help with grades and test scores) are overrepresented in Chess Clubs.

      There is nothing in your post which indicates that if you take a kid who is failing and make him play chess that he will improve his grades.

    6. Re:Old board games: by garcia · · Score: 2

      I agree that chess is a fine educational game but remember that their literacy rates are probably low and learning time would be long and frustrating at times.

      I know when my father taught me to play at the age of 6 or 7 that I would become quite frustrated at the fact that I could not remember all the moves of all the pieces (I was not playing constantly).

      Quick learning of PC games is far easier and less frustrating than learning chess.

      Knocking over the board might become a common problem.

    7. Re:Old board games: by drodver · · Score: 1

      Just because there is a correlation between playing chess and being a good student does not mean you can assume that playing chess causes better grades. What is so tricky with studies is showing causation, in this case you cannot determine if one factor is causing the other. Either one may cause the other or they may have no effect on each other and a third factor is creating the correlation. If the study showed causation between playing chess and then getting better grades THEN it would be truly useful. You don't directly claim causation even if it is implied so I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

    8. Re:Old board games: by Zachary+Kessin · · Score: 2

      Actualy I think the study addressed that. But I'm going off of memory of a report I heard on NPR several years back. Your right there is nothing in my post that idicates that. However that study which one could find I imagine if you looked. Probably does.

      It is also true that playing chess will not help all kids, but nor will playing SimCity or any other one game. And a plus of chess is that you can buy a chess set for $15 or so.

      --
      Erlang Developer and podcaster
    9. Re:Old board games: by TheTomcat · · Score: 2, Offtopic

      That's ridiculously skewed.
      Of course they generally did better.

      A better money-wasting "study" would've been "students who do better on tests and get better grades are more likely to be on the chess team."

      *eyebrow furrow*
      "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics."
      -Benjamin Disraeli

      (yeah, sorry.. offtopic. I'm not putting down chess. It definitely teaches problem solving skills.. I have a pet peeve with skewed stats.. /me clicks "No Score +1 Bonus")

    10. Re:Old board games: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Chess has got to be the most universal board game. The rules don't change. I play chess in a coffee shop in minneapolis with somalians, punks from god knows where, college kids from the UofM. It's a great social integrator.

    11. Re:Old board games: by bad-badtz-maru · · Score: 1


      They must already have at least chess in the pen. A friend of mine has a tattoo from prison and it was made from ink created by grinding up plastic chess pieces.

      maru
      www.mp3.com/pixal

    12. Re:Old board games: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I was in a mental institution near Philly*, I met a Hispanic guy a little older than me who could barely read but could play a mad game of chess. Some people are very good at strategy, and chess is arguably simpler than some of the suggestions like Myst or Riven. Besides, since chess is two-person, you can can simultaneously teach someone and play against them; they don't have to sit and watch to get the hang of it, they can be guided through a few games instead.

      Chess is open, too: Both sides see everything on the board, unlike many card games where people only see their own hand, or computer games where you can only see the action from your own perspective. This makes it very easy for someone to get started, too, since they don't have to worry about what their opponent might be up to; it's plain as day. :D

      * ==> I think that's good enough justification for making this post anonymous... heh.

    13. Re:Old board games: by Snafoo · · Score: 1

      What? You'd leave their impressionable minds open to Go!?!

      That game is Satan's tool. Have you ever seen 'The Princess Bride'? Remember that 'Life-sucking machine?' That's Go! What other game can completely absorb your attention for, like, *sixteen* *hours*? Sixteen hours of your life, boom, gone, sucked right out. Plus, the gameplay is insanely violent: Suffocating the enemy, conquering territory, poking eyes out, closing off breathing spaces.... God I love it. I have to, uh, do homework now... yeah heheh that's it...

      --
      - undoware.ca
  12. carmen sandiego by bigpat · · Score: 5, Informative

    I liked Where in the world is carmen sandiego... put them on the other side of the law.

    http://www.learningcompany.com/SubCategory.asp?C ID =244

    1. Re:carmen sandiego by Mynn · · Score: 1

      Thank you, I really liked those and am glad that you suggested it.

      IIRC, each game came with the answers... in a book or other place you could look them up (Where in Time had a Desk Encycolopedia), encouraging research and thinking.

      We need more Carmen Sandiego Games!

      --

      Face it, people are stupid, and the internet is the place where they all meet.
    2. Re:carmen sandiego by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We need GGACS: GNU GGACS Ain't Carmen Sandiego!

    3. Re:carmen sandiego by Dexx · · Score: 1

      Another one might be Where in Time. A bit of history, a bit of geography, problem solving, literacy...

      --
      Feel the fear and do it anyway.
  13. Definition of violence... by xTown · · Score: 1
    What counts as violence? Does the hunting "sim" in Oregon Trail and Oregon Trail II count as violence? Seriously, because I always liked Oregon Trail.


    Otherwise...SimCity (SimAnything, really), the Sims, RollerCoaster Tycoon. Whatever the new version of "Disney's Coaster" is called. (I always loved that game.)


    Anyway, I think we need to know what the definition of violence is in this case, because some games that none of us would consider violent (like the aforementioned Oregon Trail) might not qualify.

  14. Retro games by MSBob · · Score: 4, Informative
    Retro games should fit the criteria you specify. I don't know about their educational value but most will certainly meet the "non-violence" criteria. The ones that come to my mind include: Tetris, Manic Miner, Pirates, Boulder Dash etc. Often times they are more exciting that todays offerings and are pretty cost effective to purchase.

    For a modern collection of PG rated titles try most things published by Nintendo. Actually Mario 64 was an excellent game in itself and a pretty challenging one too.

    Hope this helps.

    --
    Your pizza just the way you ought to have it.
    1. Re:Retro games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pirates is violent (i.e. swashbuckling and cannon shots)

  15. Define violence please... by CaptIronfist · · Score: 1

    Maybe you should define the term violence, cause if you ask me a bunch of lemmings shooting each other with bazookas is a bit violent. ;)

    With the violence term defined, i would still think a good game on the Europeen Wars with many many historical references would do the job extremely well. Try Cossacks, even if it isn't a good game for your project, it's still a good game to try out.

    1. Re:Define violence please... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The lemmings didn't shoot at each other, that was Worms. The lemmings just blew up in 100 nice little explosions.

    2. Re:Define violence please... by CaptIronfist · · Score: 1

      Oops, touche... well lemmings blewing up in 100 nice little explosions is euh ... somewhat violent ?

      Anyway i think you got my pov.

  16. The Sims by tester13 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think the Sims would be a great game for the kids you are working with. It teaches time management, the value of relationships, and is very addictive.

    It could possibly be a loose model on successful living

    1. Re:The Sims by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm just wondering how many of them would choose the Crime career path. :)

    2. Re:The Sims by andy@petdance.com · · Score: 2
      It teaches time management, the value of relationships, and is very addictive.

      Is "very addictive" a positive or a negative? And how does that tie into the time management?

    3. Re:The Sims by phillymjs · · Score: 1

      Being nice isn't always better. In one long-ago Sims session when I was horsing around to see what you could and couldn't do, I killed one of my neighbors (by luring him into a small room built just for the purpose and then sealing it up), seduced his wife, and then married her. And it was fun.

      ~Philly

    4. Re:The Sims by Squeeze+Truck · · Score: 2

      I kill Mortimer Goth and marry his wife every chance I get. Bella's a hottie!

      It's not without consequences though, Mortimer's ghost comes back and haunts you all the time. You just have to put up with him until you have enough money to buy Mortimer's house. Before you do that, you have to evict Cassandra Goth, age 6, who has been living alone in the Goth mansion since her father was murdered and her mother shacked up with me.

      Yup, the Sims is great wholesome fun.

      --

      "Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao

  17. Sim/Tycoon games by Cederic · · Score: 2


    Give them games from the Sim series (SimCity, Theme Park, etc) and games such as Railroad Tycoon 2. They are highly absorbing, require competitive and creative thought, but feature no guns or violence.

    How about giving them some RPGs? Not sure if you can sneak them past the violence censors, but games that encourage teamwork should be considered a good thing.

    Of course, adventure games will probably be fine too. But I hate them so I can't make any recommendations.

    ~Cederic

  18. go back to yesterday by jeffy124 · · Score: 2, Offtopic
    --
    The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
    1. Re:go back to yesterday by Mister+Black · · Score: 3, Offtopic

      Teach 'em Java

      The US Constitution expicitly prohibits "cruel and unusual punishment". I would expect other countries to have the same sort of provisions.

      --

      You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door. There is a small mailbox here.
    2. Re:go back to yesterday by jeffy124 · · Score: 1

      do you think C++ would be any better?

      --
      The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
    3. Re:go back to yesterday by phpwhiplash · · Score: 1

      LOL. Teach 'em Java Thats classic.
      Since the term violence hasn't been clearly defined yet. I feel that Street Fighter, as violent as it is, is a very deep game. Perhaps a game which helps to alleviate stress such as Street Figher would help more?

      --
      echo $COMMONSENSE
  19. Lemmings? by stripes · · Score: 2

    Don't they have bombs and other ways of dieing? Does that count as nonviolent? (I know I think of it as a not so violent game, but if you are in a zero tolerance world....)

    There use to be a amusement park simulator, I don't recall any violence in that. There are other sim games, but many have traces of violence (like that nasty hand in SimAnt...or riots in a poorly managed city...).

    Of corse sim games may be a bit hard for people with low literacy, but that may be an advantage since their game play will improve as they manage to read more :-)

    1. Re:Lemmings? by Znork · · Score: 2

      Mmmm... not sure you'd want Lemmings if you're detaining possible suicide bombers.

      5...4...3...2...1 OH NO! Kaboom.

    2. Re:Lemmings? by Matador76 · · Score: 1

      One of the most entertaining aspects of Lemmings was to put them all in the same hole and then set the timer for the suicide bomber option. Seeing how deep a hole you can blow might not fit the "non-violent" requirement. Although, it's a great segue into a discussion about the violence in Israel. The Sierra games were some of my favorites as a kid although you might want to avoid Police Quest. Kings Quest and Space Quest were very fun although very low on the educational ladder.

  20. simcity 3000 unlimited by the_2nd_coming · · Score: 1

    this game has no violence, and inspires creativity. I would also think that it helps them learn to manage money and create revenue.

    --



    I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
  21. Myst, Riven, etc. by Alpha_Geek · · Score: 3, Redundant

    The Myst family of games is completely non-violent and requires problem solving skills. I think they could be along the lines of what your looking for.

    1. Re:Myst, Riven, etc. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you missed the point: they want to get away from boring games...

    2. Re:Myst, Riven, etc. by Mr.+Sketch · · Score: 2

      Normally I would agree since I love the Myst series. While it does require significant problem solving skills, it also requires a long attention span, and there are lots of people who don't find it engaging enough to be enjoyable.

      I wouldn't recommend getting too many copies, but one or two for the few people who might enjoy those types of games would be good.

    3. Re:Myst, Riven, etc. by rho · · Score: 2

      I'll second this -- another advantage to Myst is its age -- you can run it on old computers just fine, like a 1993 Mac Quadra series, which could be had for $100 or less from ebay.

      The gameplay won't appeal to everybody -- it's a bit too slowpaced for our ADHD society -- but for those who really get into it, they can turn around and reproduce their own Myst-alike using HyperCard, the best introduction to programming I can think of. Hypercard is one of those Apple technologies that has been inexcusably ignored...

      --
      Potato chips are a by-yourself food.
    4. Re:Myst, Riven, etc. by Sebastopol · · Score: 1


      Myst one was a little disturbing when the bro's both lock you up for good.

      Gehn was a little psycho in Riven: keeping a woman locked in a prison... hmmm...

      Myst 3, when crazy man clubs you in the face with a hammer at the end. That's pretty violent, ja?

      So maybe not totally non-violent, but probably as close as possible.

      --
      https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
    5. Re:Myst, Riven, etc. by Teferi · · Score: 2

      there *was* a third ending, you know...

      --
      -- Veni, vidi, dormivi
    6. Re:Myst, Riven, etc. by Arandir · · Score: 2

      There were actually seven endings. Or at least seven ending sequences, with two of them having the same final image.

      1) Free Saavedro, return with book.
      2) Free Saavedro, return without book.
      3) Imprison Saavedro, return with book.
      4) Imprison Saavedro, return without book.
      4) Imprison Saavedro, then let him go, he kills you.
      5) Join Saavedro on balcony, he kills you.

      --
      A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
    7. Re:Myst, Riven, etc. by Teferi · · Score: 2

      Uh, I don't seem to remember a character named Saavedro...

      --
      -- Veni, vidi, dormivi
    8. Re:Myst, Riven, etc. by Arandir · · Score: 2

      Maybe I spelled it wrong. You know, the guy that got exiled on Narayan for twenty years. The mad soliquist of every viewscreen in four of the six worlds in Exile.

      You know, Brad Dourif!

      Geez.

      --
      A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
    9. Re:Myst, Riven, etc. by Teferi · · Score: 2

      Er. I haven't played Exile yet.
      It arrives tomorrow, though.

      --
      -- Veni, vidi, dormivi
  22. Games by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Some good ones:

    Roller coaster tycoon
    Flight Sim 2000
    Pipe dream (an old water puzzle game where you built plumbing to see how many pieces you could use.)

    Have you looked at any of the old text adventures: Activision has a CD with a number of old Infocom games such as Zork, which while they do have fighting (Sometimes), it's all text and not very graphic. Great puzzle solving games. Frotz, a free interpreter for text adventure games, has a pretty good following, with a number of games available.

    Finally, have you considered plain old Legos?

    --
    I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
  23. Err chess? by MrP3ach · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Or perhaps even civilisation or some historical wargame/strtegy game i.e Steel Panthers. You could use Typing of the Dead to teach keyboard skills or do these count as violent and could be disturbing to their fragile little minds. Though quite how it will help is beyond me. What do you want to teach these people? How to use a computer or how to play games?

  24. More suggestions: by Masem · · Score: 2
    Roller Coaster Tycoon and expansions. Only violence bits are those that would vandalize the park, which is given negative implications since it lowers the park rating and you can hire security guards to help protect it.

    Caesar III, Pharaoh/Cleopatra and Zeus. All are simcity-like, but with historical bents. There are some elements to building an army as necessary to defend your city at times, but you simply tell people to defend or attack, and do little else in terms of battle. Zeus and C III have a bit more of this than Pharaoh.

    --
    "Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
    "I can see my house from here!" - ST:
    1. Re:More suggestions: by the_2nd_coming · · Score: 1

      yes let it be know that there is no boold and gore, just little Icons dissapear in a cloud of smoke, also, any sid meier game will do well like alph centari

      --



      I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
  25. How about multi-player civilization by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    and tweak the settings so economic cooperation is rewarded more than conquest. Could also have additional materials so that when they discover some new technology, you can go into it in more depth than the program does.

    1. Re:How about multi-player civilization by dwpro · · Score: 1

      I think that is a great idea, they would have to make the moral and conscious decision to do the right thing, to win the legal way, but something as addicive as civ worries me, I had to delete it off my comp because I was addicted to the game, but hey, thats just me, and I'm on crack.

      "forever in debt to your priceless advice."

      --
      Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. -- Susan Ertz
    2. Re:How about multi-player civilization by rp · · Score: 1

      (See www.freeciv.org for a free, multiplatform, multiplayer Civilization.)

  26. Text adventures by Cosmicbandito · · Score: 3, Informative

    Why not help them increase their literacy level while they have fun? There are plenty of text adventures that are non-violent and engaging. Any of the infocom titles would be an excellent choice, with the exception of HHGTG. That one might be a bit frustrating. As an added bonus, these games will run on the simplest of hardware and don't require frequent fixing. Also, it might foster a sense of community among your juveniles, forcing them to share solutions to puzzles.

    1. Re:Text adventures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes! yes! yes! how many hours did I spend on Infocom when I was growing up?! They even scale nicely in terms of difficulty from something like "Wishbringer" all the way up through "Enchanter" They've got a great mix of themes and problems. And they'll run on just about any platform. Check out the "Treasures of Infocom" Vols. 1 and 2 for a complete set of the applications. They'll teach literacy and problem solving.

    2. Re:Text adventures by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 2

      What about "Leather Goddesses of Phobos"? :)

    3. Re:Text adventures by redcliffe · · Score: 0

      The Zork trilogy is good.

  27. Even the Sims can be violent by SpanishInquisition · · Score: 1

    I mean you watch people starve to death, pleading for their life, that's pretty violent.

    --
    Je t'aime Stéphanie
    1. Re:Even the Sims can be violent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Invite everyone over for a pool party and then take away the pool ladder. You'll see sims get real violent then.

    2. Re:Even the Sims can be violent by Johnny5000 · · Score: 1

      Not to mention in the Sims, you can smack the crap out of each other, and fight.

      You can even have adults smacking kids around.

      Not saying that it wouldnt be a worthwhile game for the kids to play, I think it would be.
      I just think that outside of puzzle games, it will be pretty tough to find a game that's not violent in any way. Hell, I personally have found ways to squeeze some violence out of relatively non-violent games. It taught me to be creative in my violence-making. :]

      -J5K

      --
      The libertarian solution to the failures of capitalism is to apply more capitalism til the failures are fixed.
    3. Re:Even the Sims can be violent by TheCaptain · · Score: 1

      Or make the sim-serial killer. Invite people over and quick throw a wall up around them. They eventually starve to death and die in their little prison.

      Actually there was a time before a patch came out that the repairment could electrocute himself and haunt your house too...which was REALLY cool btw.

    4. Re:Even the Sims can be violent by TheCaptain · · Score: 1

      er...repairment = repairman. Going for more caffine now.

    5. Re:Even the Sims can be violent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Excuse me, but there is no adult-versus-child violence in The Sims. And the male-versus-female violence is very mild. The whole point if The Sims is that it portrays the negative emotional effects of violence, instead of glorifying it like Quake.


      Playing a game with mild violence that teaches consequences and empathy, is a lot better for troubled kids than playing abstract puzzle games with no relation to the real world.

    6. Re:Even the Sims can be violent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Not only would the repairman's ghost haunt your house, but he would fix burnt out light bulbs and do other chores as well.


      "Morning honey. Hey, wasn't this light burnt out last evening?"

    7. Re:Even the Sims can be violent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Excuse me, but there is no adult-versus-child violence in The Sims. And the male-versus-female violence is very mild. The whole point if The Sims is that it portrays the negative emotional effects of violence, instead of glorifying it like Quake. "

      you'll probably never read this, but there definitely is adult vs child violence.. I've smacked the kids around plenty.

  28. Droidworks by Chelloveck · · Score: 5, Informative

    Lemmings qualifies as non-violent? The game where those cute little guys can fall off cliffs, be fried by flamethrowers, blown up, drowned, decapitated, and squished? That Lemmings? :-)

    Anyway, I recommend Droidworks. You build droids to solve various puzzles, then pilot them in an over-the-shoulder view. My kids love it.

    --
    Chelloveck
    I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
    1. Re:Droidworks by CaseyB · · Score: 2
      The game where those cute little guys can fall off cliffs, be fried by flamethrowers, blown up, drowned, decapitated, and squished?

      Don't forget the button that, when clicked, caused all remaining lemmings to stop, hold their hands up to their terrorized shaking heads, and shout "Armageddon!" before exploding.

    2. Re:Droidworks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reading all these comments I was afraid no one was going to mention it! Droidworks is definitely a great idea, and I'd suggest you take a look at some of the other Lucas Learning titles, too. Droidworks gives the players specific tasks to accomplish based around different scientific concepts, and if your computers have internet access they even allow for further study of the concepts online. Pit Droids is a more straight forward puzzle game, similar to Lemmings in that you have unending lines of droids trying to get from an entrance to an exit, but it's all about turning directions and doesn't involve any Nuke commands, like lemmings. I don't have any direct experience with the other games they offer, but in my opinion they are definitely going to be a great bet.

    3. Re:Droidworks by staplin · · Score: 2

      Lemmings qualifies as non-violent? The game where those cute little guys can fall off cliffs, be fried by flamethrowers, blown up, drowned, decapitated, and squished? That Lemmings? :-)

      That's exactly what I thought. I suppose if you held it up against Doom, Quake, etc, it's much less violent. Though I also remember having contests to see who could wipe out an entire group of Lemmings the fastest (without pushing the Nuke button)...

      Hmmm. Nuke button. Yep. Nonviolent, Heh.

  29. How about... by eander315 · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Chess? Have fun getting them to play it, but if they do, there's no better strategy game out there. The Sims might be good too, as a way to teach the value of money, time management, etc. Possibly the old Zork games might be a good choice as well, although the amount of reading involved may prove to be a stumbling block at first. Good Luck...

    1. Re:How about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They would probably find something better to do with the chessboard and the stuff on it... like, sticking the queen where the sun never shines...

      With The Sims they would probably become bored or frustated because their character is always dying... (better give them a easy game or somebody might get killed!)

      Zork wouldn't be any good since some of them might not be able to read at all...

      Plus, they would probably ruin the computer/console in no time... Give them something that lasts long and is cheap, like cards or Lego (then again, they could swallow the pieces of Lego or cut themselves with the sides of the cards... afterall, nothing's safe).

  30. Rollercoster Tycoon by WarmFuzzy · · Score: 1

    I know it's been said, but not heartily enough. Rollercoaster Tycoon seems to engage children (and adults like me) far more quickly than any sim-style game I've ever seen. Every child is familiar with the concept of an amusement park, and the chance to build and manage your own seems to suck them right in. I've seen kids get hooked on the game from age 7, and kids as old as, um, 27, play it to death.

    -Fuzzy

    1. Re:Rollercoster Tycoon by killmenow · · Score: 1

      I agree that Rollercoaster Tycoon is a good game (my 9 yr old can't stop playing it) but it is a sim-game. It simulates running a theme park. Very much like Sim-Theme. Only RCT is better.

      I also think that if Lemmings is OK, OddWorld should be OK. There is minor violence but the game is entertaining and designed to challenge your problem solving skills.

      Other than that, I can tell you the Carmen Sandiego games will hardly hold their attention if my son and neices/nephews are any guide. The games are a great idea on paper, but the kids just don't seem to stay involved long enough.

      Also, there is a younger child's educational game called "Mortimer and the Riddle of the Medallion" that is pretty good.

      Why not take an engine like Quake/Unreal and a level editor to create your own scenarios? You could remove monsters and weapons and basically make a multi-player maze.

    2. Re:Rollercoster Tycoon by phloon · · Score: 1

      "Why not take an engine like Quake/Unreal and a level editor to create your own scenarios? You could remove monsters and weapons and basically make a multi-player maze."

      Because then it would really suck! What the hell would people do with no weapons or monsters? And why go through all that trouble. You could provide an equally thrilling experience by sitting three or four people around a pen and paper maze.

  31. Sokoban by Wolfgar · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This is a great little addictive game where the object is to push boxes through a maze to designated destinations without getting any of them stuck (e.g. pushing one into the corner...you can't push it out of there)

    1. Re:Sokoban by GuySmiley · · Score: 1

      I second this idea. Sokoban is a fabulous game with minimal hardware reqs.

      --
      Hey, leave comments about my mother out of this!
    2. Re:Sokoban by Boli · · Score: 1

      Some implementations of Sokoban allow the user to edit their own levels. This can stimulate creativity in puzzle-makers and provide unlimited challenges to others.

      There are thousands of sokoban levels on the net. They can be represented as a text formatted file using only 10 characters.

      For those kids interested in learning java, let them program Sokoban!

    3. Re:Sokoban by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fire & Ice (8-bit nintendo)

  32. try TuxTyping or Tetris... by sup4hleet · · Score: 1

    werd it's all in the subject ^^^

  33. Battle Chess by Jebediah21 · · Score: 1

    If you find an older version it would run well on old hardware too.

    --

    Everytime you look at porn a devil gets their horns.
    1. Re:Battle Chess by Woefdram · · Score: 1

      Heh, that's one chess program that's made to be as violent as possible :) I remember the screaming of the pawn as a queen set fire to it. Or the chopping off arms and legs from knights and stuff. I think chess could be a major challenge for some, but I'd suggest you look for a less violent version of it.

      --

      Woefdram, l'apprenti sorcier

    2. Re:Battle Chess by Jebediah21 · · Score: 1

      Hmmm. That's right. I didn't even think of the Violence, it was so much a part of the game.

      --

      Everytime you look at porn a devil gets their horns.
    3. Re:Battle Chess by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but Battle Chess was the BEST chess game I've EVER played. I loved watching the pieces beat eat other. I used to arrange the board and play 2 P human just to see what each piece did.

    4. Re:Battle Chess by Nick+Number · · Score: 2

      I think chess could be a major challenge for some, but I'd suggest you look for a less violent version of it.

      Nerf chess?

      --
      Promote proofreading. Don't mod up sloppy posts.
  34. What is news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Webster's defines it thusly: "News (n): (1) A duck with three legs (2) A mutual agreement which is unbreakable". Which is unbreakable. I rest my case.

  35. Marble Drop by Maxis by billmaly · · Score: 0

    I played a demo of this a number of years ago, never saw it in stores. Maxis (makers of SC2000) created Marble Drop, a game similar to The Incredible Machine. Might be worth looking at.

    Bill

    1. Re:Marble Drop by Maxis by billmaly · · Score: 0

      Follow up--Amazon has Marble Drop, available in the "Electronic Arts Top Ten Family Fun Pack", and also available separately (ZShops). The Top Ten pack includes SimCity, SimAnt, etc. $20 for 10 games...heck of a deal!

      Bill

  36. How about... by DarkDust · · Score: 1

    Sokoban ! This neat little game is very simple learn, avaible in a wide variety of implementation (most for free) and it indocrtinates abstract thinking...

  37. Adventures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    How about Grim Fandangoo.
    Splenid graphics (quite important I would say for people who aren't necessarily interested in computers in any way (and therefor I would think that Tetris and the whole lot won't do)), and good fun!

    1. Re:Adventures by Genom · · Score: 2

      A lot of the humor in Grim Fandango might be a bit above them - but it was a great game =) I still love the balloon animal part - "Run you pigeons! It's Robert Frost!"

      He's a little vague on the requirements though - can the game itself contain no "violence", or can the protaganist simply not use violence (I'm thinking about the kidnapping, "sprouting", etc... plus there's the whole afterlife theme, which may or may not be kosher where he's working)?

      If there can be no "violent" acts at all in the game (even ones you're supposed to stop/rectify, like rescuing the kidnapped girl, etc...) then even Grim Fandango could be considered "violent", and his only real choices would come from puzzle and strategy games. Even some of those, even good ones like Risk for example, involve armies clashing in battles - even though it's depicted solely through plastic roman numerals and dice, it's basis is in violence, technically. It all depends on how stringent about it the rules are.

  38. "Abstract" games by geophile · · Score: 2

    The two most addictive games I have ever found are Qix (late 70s, I think) and Tetris. No violence, and in fact no people at all. Just moving shapes.

  39. time to boycott...something! by G+Neric · · Score: 0, Troll
    I don't set policy, so the 'no
    violence' is a fixed criteria.


    dude, this is slashdot, home to people who think like RMS, Jon Katz, Jamie McCarthy... you know, frothy thinkers. you have to believe, like the rest of us, that (1) violent games aren't bad, and (2) any principle (regardless of its truth-value) is worth sacrificing everything for, or at least threatening too.

    So, you should dress in black and engage in civil disobedience till this misguided no-violence policy is changed. Or, at least till XP is released, then protest that instead. While waiting to be noticed, call the EFF: surely they will take this case. Also, try to induce your employers to violate the GPL. That will surely get those "loosers" in a world of hurt.

    1. Re:time to boycott...something! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um, the no-violence policy is for a juvenile detention center. Normal, mentally stable kids can play violent games with no problems, but the kids who would play these games are definitely not normal.

      OTOH, you're probably just trolling and I should ignore you.

    2. Re:time to boycott...something! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      > you're probably just trolling
      > and I should ignore you.

      trolling? sarcasm only looks like trolling to people who believe so fervently in what's being made fun of that they can't imagine that it could be made fun of.

      btw, your knowledge of psych is insufficient. there is no such thing as as simple as "normal" and "abnormal", but rather, with mental health there is a continuous spectrum. so, it is unlikely to be the case that violent games are bad for some and not for others. more likely, if violent games are bad they'd be really bad for some and less bad for others. nor is it obvious that they'd be more bad for troubled teens: perhaps they'd be therapeutic.

      hopefully I've written enough to make you realize that you should refrain from commenting on subjects you know nothing about, extending from humor to psychology and who knows where in between.

    3. Re:time to boycott...something! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Crack baby.

  40. A few that are great for schools by SnapperHead · · Score: 0, Flamebait
    • Quake
    • Quake 3 - Urban Terror
    • Soldier of Fortune
    • The doom series
    • Wolfenstein, if your looking for that vintage feel


    Opps ...
    --
    until (succeed) try { again(); }
  41. mudding by Cederic · · Score: 5, Insightful


    Get them into mudding. Find a mud that focusses on exploration and quest solving, rather than fighting. Then it meets the non-violence criteria.

    Several advantages to muds (MUD, MUSH, etc:
    - boosts literacy (text only feedback means you HAVE to read)
    - teaches you to type fast
    - social interaction
    - intelligent inquisitive types will want to learn how to extend the mud == learning to code == gaining rather useful skills
    - people will try to figure out how to cheat. This is healthy - it means they are applying creative thought.
    - making the kids admin the mud puts them in a position of responsibility

    ~Cederic

    1. Re:mudding by Woefdram · · Score: 1
      Find a mud that focusses on exploration and quest solving, rather than fighting. Then it meets the non-violence criteria.

      I think that's going to be a problem. I played MUD very (very) intensely for quite some time, but I haven't seen a single one in which fighting wasn't almost a goal in itself.

      But the idea is very good, I think. Maybe you could have those kids rearrange an existing MUD engine into a non-violent one, provided that at least some of them can program. Question then is: what are you going to turn it into? You could replace the fighting by bargaining or exploring, but I think it would be difficult to make it as interesting as plain old slaying (insert evil grin here).

      But how about a simple game of chess? I know from my own experience that a good chess program can be highly addictive. No violence, lots of challenge.

      --

      Woefdram, l'apprenti sorcier

    2. Re:mudding by daoine · · Score: 1
      but I haven't seen a single one in which fighting wasn't almost a goal in itself.

      Check out MOOs as an alternative -- where the kids would be involved in creating and extending the world rather than beating it up. (Not that that's a bad thing...) A search for MOO at mudlinks provides quite a few results...several with a more educational (as opposed to combat) flavor.

    3. Re:mudding by supagoat · · Score: 1

      For some reason, I just don't see barely literate juvenile delinquents doing much with a MOO....

    4. Re:mudding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I started mudding when I was 12. Worst mistake of my life. These things are like crack. Some people get into them, some dont. I don't think a bunch of kids in juvi who can't read will find them interesting. If they do that would be ever worse. After a while they'd be beating the crap out of eachother for PKing.

    5. Re:mudding by chipuni · · Score: 2
      I'm not an unbiased reader: I am a wizard of Furrymuck. Despite its reputation, it is a social place, but large areas are adult-only.

      I strongly recommend that you check out any MU* before you move students on. Ask the wizards the following questions:

      • What's the general theme of your MU*?
      • How many people are usually online at any time?
      • When people are on your MU*, what are they usually doing?
      • How would your population react to having X students from a Juvenile Detention Center join?
      • Are there adult-only areas? What protections do you have against children wandering into those areas?
      • Do you have puzzles on your system? What style of puzzles are they: group or individual puzzles? How difficult are they?

      If you're looking for a list of MUDs, Yahoo has a good, unpolitical selection. Good luck!

      --
      Never play leapfrog with a unicorn. Or a juggernaut.
    6. Re:mudding by Dexx · · Score: 1

      "intelligent inquisitive types will want to learn how to extend the mud == learning to code == gaining rather useful skills"

      More than that, have them design zones/areas. This works as more of a creative output for the less technically inclined. Coding is fun, but it's just not for everybody. However, writing out room and creature descriptions as richly as possible can appeal to a larger group.

      --
      Feel the fear and do it anyway.
  42. What about sierra? by MusicGeek · · Score: 3, Informative

    How about the King's Quest games. If I remember correctly at least the first four were non-violent, although the owl in KQ IV sometimes made me want to kill somebody.

    1. Re:What about sierra? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Don't forget, the original Kings Quest games were based on fairy tales and mythology. Fairy tales and mythology are usually pretty gory and violent.
      For example, Kings Quest 1 included quite a few ways to be killed violently, including being cannibalized. One puzzle had only one solution, and that was to push an old woman into a fire and burn her to death. Ok, so she was an evil witch who would have eaten you if she had the chance, but it's not exactly non-violent.
      There were also two ways to deal with the fire breathing dragon in the cave if I recall. One of them was to use a bucket of water, after which it would run away. The other was to throw a knife at it, killing it. Let's see... There was also an ogre who would kill you, wolves who would kill you... I don't remember if you could get at the moat gators or not. If you could, I'm sure that they would gladly kill you. Hey, if I remember right, even the leprechauns would kill you. Oh yeah, the giant would kill you. Oh, yeah, couldn't you use the slingshot to make the giant fall off the cloud to his death?


      Ok, the solutions that didn't end up killing anything always got more points and were more rewarding in other ways. Still violent solutions did work for some of the games problems.

  43. Computer games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Are evil. Make them read books instead. Only then will they be free from the spiritual slavery that is the modern world.

    1. Re:Computer games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      After things like the DMCA, SSSCA, spyware, censorware, human cloning, consumerism, et al you might have a point.

  44. Vikings by Woefdram · · Score: 1
    Some years ago I used to play Vikings, a rather simple game in terms of sound and video, but a real mind-twister from time to time. You had three Vikings, with their particular skills. You had to combine those skills in order to get all three of them from level to level.

    I don't know in how far the no violence means can't hit anything, but you have to kill dinosaurs and cavemen every now and then. The killing part is like Space Invaders: you shoot and it drops. No blood, no screams, no satanical laughing.

    As I said, it's been quite some time since I played it, so I can't provide you with a link now. I'll see if I can find the disks at home. If I do, I'll let you know.

    --

    Woefdram, l'apprenti sorcier

    1. Re:Vikings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, Lost Vikings was a really great game. Too bad I never played with the sequel. Was it as good as the first?

  45. I guess... by sofar · · Score: 1


    Sierra's SWAT games are out of the question? :-(

    1. Re:I guess... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess Gangsters and it's clones/sequels are out too. :(

  46. Adventure games! by ZaMoose · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Almost any King's Quest ('cept the last 3d one... that sucked), any Monkey Island game, Grim Fandango, Sam & Max (well, I guess any LucasArts adv. game except for Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine. Not so good). All teach puzzle-solving logic with a good sense of humo(u)r.

    I second the Carmen Sandiego series as well as the 0ld Sk00l Oregon Trail. Mmmm, buffalo...

    I recall a Sim-like game involving running a beer distributorship. Could prove interesting (except for the polka-influenced soundtrack. *shudder*)

    Also, does X Pilot count as violent? You could bill it as A "gravitational physics/particle interaction simulator".

    Then there's always SameGnome... *grin*

    --
    I wish I had a kryptonite cross, because then you could keep Dracula and Superman away.
    1. Re:Adventure games! by jawtheshark · · Score: 1
      I recall a Sim-like game involving running a beer distributorship.

      I don't know this one specifically...but I remember another one that was very funny: Pizza Tycoon...create your own restaurants, pizzas etc. Only problem is that you had to do some Maffia stuff (but it was very funny).

      Other games that are not to violent are the stated SimAnything, and of course the good old sierras/lucasarts. I loved the Monkey Island and Space Quest series. It really depends how "violence" is qualified. If blowing up a terminator-robot counts as violence they cannot be used....but then it was self-defence ;-)

      Further more Theme Hospital springs to mind, and also RailRoad Tycoon and Transportation Tycoon (now I loved that one), but of course you need to be economically inclined. I don't think that literacy is a big barrier, my brother is not the brightest light and he loves Transportation Tycoon.

      One of the most funniest ripoffs of the Tycoon-like games was something called "Klomanager" (german for toilet-manager). Manage your own public toilet booths and try to build up a toilet empire. No I'm *not* making this up. :-)

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    2. Re:Adventure games! by bgeiger · · Score: 1

      Hmmm... instead of X-Pilot... think X-Plane... or any other non-combat flight sim...

      I mean, the only "violence" would be to intentionally crash... and in X-Plane there are no innocent bystanders to injure...

      Not only that, but most people are fascinated by flying and would jump at that chance.

      --
      o/~ All God's children shall be free in Pirates of the Caribbean, when we reach that Magic Kingdom in the sky... o/~
  47. "no violence" by under_score · · Score: 2

    Does the no violence policy include abstracted violence? The Civilization series of games is great if the abstracted violence is okay. For pure non-violence, Railroad Tycoon II is great. I've played it quite a bit - the main downside is that it takes quite a while to get up to speed and it also takes quite a while to play a single game. Its main benefits for an educational setting include: history, geography, macro economics, and finance. It can also be multi-player over a network.

  48. Non-violent? by Mercuria · · Score: 1

    I guess xbill is completely out of the question...

  49. Zoombinis by superid · · Score: 2

    "The Logical Journey of the Zoombinis" is a great game! Several years old, from Broderbund I believe.

  50. SNOOD! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Try out Snood! It has levels from very easy to maddening. It's addictive.

    Cripple-ware trial available at www.snood.com

    1. Re:SNOOD! by Yosemite+Sue · · Score: 1

      Ok, this is kind of a "me-too" post, but I also want to endorse Snood.

      This non-violent game is relatively easy to pick up, and does have a variety of difficulties and levels to keep it challenging. The adults in the research lab where I formerly worked enjoyed it, and some of them told me that their kids (of various ages) also liked it. One of my friends is an occupational therapist who became addicted to the game, but also brought it into her workplace for use with brain injury patients.

      One caveat - last time I checked, the download of Snood for the PC was bundled with Gator. I've expressed my opinion about this in the forum, and hope that the distributors of Snood will reconsider this alliance.

      YS.

      --
      "Arrr! The laws of science be a harsh mistress." -- Bender
    2. Re:SNOOD! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I HATE that game! It's made me waste so many hours of my life...

  51. Rollercoaster Tycoon? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    This seems appropriate, as it's rather easy, teaches economic values and risk-reward types of lessons, and requires only as much reading as you want to invest.

  52. locus arts by Rev.+DeFiLEZ · · Score: 1
    manic manion 1 & 2
    monkey island 1 2 3 (4?)

    serious proplem solving (with think out side the box properties)

    monkey 3 island that good, the "outside the box" got a little carried away for me.

    violence is limited to insult sword fighting, shooting tenticles with shrink rays and other, (less the loony toons violence)

    theres are entertaining and educational,

    -rev
    lets not forget that lemonade stand game!!

  53. I remember back in the day by Uttles · · Score: 1

    We used to play Oregon Trail and Where in the world is Carmen Sandiego? Those were some fun games, not much violence, except when you got to go hunting on OT, that sure was fun. Anyone else spend all their money on ammo? Yeah I was a disturbed child for sure...

    --

    ~ now you know
    1. Re:I remember back in the day by Tikiman · · Score: 1
      Those were some fun games, not much violence, except when you got to go hunting on OT, that sure was fun

      Yeah that was fun, especially when you killed 4 buffalo and 15 deer, and it said "You shot 8,000 pounds of meat but were only able to carry 150 back to the wagon"

  54. Breakout by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    About as nonviolent as they come, although the game's title might get you in trouble.

  55. Sim City by kbuckalo · · Score: 1
    Try Sim City.


    The game gives you a budget, from which you build
    a basic city by laying out traffic and utility grids, then "zoning" with commercial, redidential and industrial districts. You use income from taxes, fees, etc, to expand the city. Very good for showing budgeting, also, pretty good intro to city design.

  56. Any adventure game by dagashi · · Score: 5, Informative

    Monkey Island 2, 3 and 4 are all great games where you have to think quite a bit... and best of all, you get to laugh too.
    Don't miss out on Grim Fandango either.
    All above from LucasArts.

    I also enjoyed playing the Qing's/Space/Heroe's Quest games (Sierra) alot.
    The Dig(LucasArts) is also a great adventure game not to be forgotten!

    They're all non-violence.

    1. Re:Any adventure game by startled · · Score: 2

      "Monkey Island 2, 3 and 4 are all great games...."

      And you learn an important skill for real life-- Monkey Kombat! Oop ack chi!

    2. Re:Any adventure game by BravoXL · · Score: 0

      I dont' know how non violent you could consider the dig, a man does get his arm sawed of in it. but I do agree with you the monkey Island series would be great.

  57. SimCity! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There have been school contests in city design for ages 8-10 where the kids used SimCity as the design tool.
    Rollercoaster Tycoon would probably be as much fun.

  58. Crazy Taxi by interiot · · Score: 2
    In general, most arcade games aren't any more violent than Lemmings.

    In particular, I mention Crazy Taxi, because its non-violence is almost amusing. There are times when you accidentally drive the car off the road and you drop into oblivion, and your passenger's only comment is "turn right!", minus the expected screaming or flailing of hands.

    1. Re:Crazy Taxi by Torodung · · Score: 1


      Crazy Taxi is non-violent!? What about the driving through signs, fleeing bystanders, crashing cars, etc.? You really need to take a vacation from the Gaza strip some day. ;-)
      Hell, about half of these kids probably drove like that during a joyride at some point in their misguided lives!
      Torodung

  59. The world of Telaus by Tora · · Score: 1

    We are working on a VR mud world with that very preface in mind (non-violence). I have come up with a scheme where rewards are not through "experience"--which is often a direct result of violence--as in common muds; but through talismans given as rewards for various tasks such as quests, puzzles and the like. Unfortunately, this is an online world, so it may not meet your criteria. The world is Telaus

    --
    tora
  60. Adventure Games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Adventure games are always great learning experiences and a lot of fun. Mostly they're not violent either. Try games Like Simon the Sorcerer (official site: http://www.adventuresoft.com/main.htm), The Monkey Island Series (fansite: http://www.thescummbar.com/) and the Indiana Jones Series (review: http://www.adventurecollective.com/reviews/fateofa tlantis.htm).

  61. Two obvious games come to mind by Microsift · · Score: 1

    Tetris and MineSweeper. Both games can be played relying solely on luck, but players will see the benefit of planning their next move in short order. Mah-Jongg is also a good game, but kids might find it boring.

    --
    My other sig is extremely clever...
  62. A Few Suggestions by why-is-it · · Score: 1

    Any of the Sim games (SimCity, SimFarm, SimAnt, etc.) The Sims Civilization / Civilization II Alpha-Centauri

    There are also computer versions of most board games and card games.

    Of course, whether any of these titles are suitable depends on how violence is defined.

    --
    *** Where are we going? And what's with this handbasket?
  63. Be careful with some Simulation games... by Phaser6047 · · Score: 1

    Some of the Sim games are great, but they can lead to some violent or destructive behavior. And in a Juvenile Detention type situation that can be a bad thing.

    Take, for example, Sim City. Sure, these games are constructive, but they also have a destructive side. I used to work as a lab aid in my local library, and the children would take out games like the Sim series, just to be the 'benovlent god'. That type of behavior just seems unhealthy to me.

    1. Re:Be careful with some Simulation games... by radja · · Score: 2

      > Take, for example, Sim City. Sure, these games are constructive, but they also have a destructive side. I used to work as a lab aid in my local library, and the children would take out games like the Sim series, just to be the 'benovlent god'. That type of behavior just seems unhealthy to me.

      hmm.. it seems extremely healthy to me. Anyone who here who HASNT tried the most spectacular way to completely fuck up a game? Try to make people live in a nuclear waste area? See if you can get one rollercoaster to launch a cart straight into another coaster?

      Seriously.. all building type games leave room for 'abuse' (for want of a better word), and if you're worried about that abuse.. stay away. So I guess that leaves puzzle games (tetris), platform games (sonic), and barbie fashion designer..

      //rdj

      --

      No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
      --Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
  64. King of Dragon Pass by doug · · Score: 1

    I for one am hooked on it. How serious is your "no violence" restriction? In KoDP there is the "how many warriors do you send" choice and one of the fighting styles is "kill as many as possible", but it is most certainly not a FPS. You don't see any carnage. Mostly it is a "political growth" game where your can tries to form (and control) a tribe, and perhaps an entire kingdom. On top of this there is exploration, religion, trade, and so on.

    http://www.a-sharp.com/kodp for the official blurb, and a review is at http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_2592.h tml.

  65. Non-violent game. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How about Virtual Valerie?

  66. Old Sierra Games by Fatal0E · · Score: 2

    They prob wont let you get away with Leisure Suit Larry but my other Fav's like the Space Quest series, the Kings Quest series, the Quest for Glory series and dont forget the Monkey Islands (LucasArts). They all are non-violent, all involve a lot of concentration and problem solving and can be really really funny at times.

    But if litteracy is going to be a hurdle that you'll need to overcome you might want to take a walk through a public schools software library. I once saved $1000 in consultants fees doing that! :)

    1. Re:Old Sierra Games by el_nino · · Score: 1

      Much as I love the Quest for Glory series, they do contain quite a bit of violence. In fact, fighting is a pretty central part of the game...

  67. violence & games by LordAlpha · · Score: 1

    jezzball, reversi, chess, checkers, civilization, all good, all clean. Perhaps boring for a lot of people.

    Why not strategic games with network capability?

    Form teams and make them work toghether.

  68. LucasArts by KingKire64 · · Score: 1

    Any of the old lucasarts adventure games had alot of problem solving. And you want to talk about entertiaing play the original 2 monkey islands. (Although im throughly convinved the writers of monkey island 2 where on some good LSD for that ending.)

    --
    "All I can tell the "lesser of two evils" folks is that if they keep voting for evil, they'll keep getting evil."-Lp.org
  69. Violence comes in all flavors... by wadetemp · · Score: 1

    What constitutes "violence" is different for every person. Some might see Lemmings as a violent game because of the "suicide bombers." You intentionally set little blue and green guys to explode... that seems like violence with intent. And in SimCity you can be intentionally destructive; sending Godzilla through your own town is not the most peaceful thing. I believe someone mentioned the hunting "sim" in Oregon Trail. Nearly all games have some level of violence, whether it's jumping on little mushroom dudes' heads or blasting an alien with a chain gun.

    Not that I think that's bad. Being destructive is an important part of creativity. If you're unwilling to part with your creations in a big bang, you need to learn to get over yourself. Part of being creative is striving to do something better.

    So perhaps it's creativity that overpowers the violence contained in a game that you're asking for...

  70. Ambrosia SW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    For those Mac-heads out there, Ambrosia Software has a wealth of great quality games that have minimum system requirements and contain little or no violence.

    http://www.ambrosiasw.com

    1. Re:Ambrosia SW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For those that haven't played their games, they're basically remakes of the old classics (Space Invaders, Asteroids, etc) with much better graphics and sound. Shooting asteroids and caterpillars might be considered violent, though.

    2. Re:Ambrosia SW by Yosemite+Sue · · Score: 1

      I can't resist the opportunity to say good things about Ambrosia Software.

      In particular, I'd recommend:

      -- Chiral (a bit of a learning curve, but very cool scientific strategy and action game)
      -- Barrack (tough to describe this game, involves hand-eye coordination and some quick problem-solving)

      I haven't been using a Mac in a while, but if you have one available, it's probably worth seeing if the new offerings from Ambrosia also fall into the non-violent and creative category.

      YS.

      --
      "Arrr! The laws of science be a harsh mistress." -- Bender
  71. Oxyd by basegmez · · Score: 1

    Oxyd is a very interesting puzzle solving game. If you search for Dongleware or Oxyd you should be able to find a downloadable a demo.

  72. What are you trying to teach them? by BillyGoatThree · · Score: 1

    If all you are trying to teach them is how to turn on a computer, move a mouse and double-click a "bag of holding" or whatever, keep doing what you are doing.

    But if you want them to actually LEARN something, teach them to read. Then give them some books. Supplement and reward this learning with software. For instance, have a science lesson about simple machines (levers, pulleys, wheels, etc) THEN break out The Incredible Machine to demo it. And if Joe Icepick hasn't read his assignment yet, no Lemmings for him at Game Time.

    --
    324006
  73. TLC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The best non-violent games are from TLC (The Learning Company). Not too dummied down, and not to complex. My favorite game is Treasure Mountain. It asks questions that develop color, number, and pattern matching.

  74. Floigan Brothers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Check out the Floigan Brothers on the Dreamcast. It is actually pretty cool.

  75. There are Several by cnladd · · Score: 3, Informative

    The "Where in the * is Carmen San Diego" series is one of the best. Another common one that I've seen used in several schools was "Oregon Trail". If literacy levels are a concern, you may want to try some of the several text adventures out there. There are several good ones that are made for younger people - and having to read and type may be a great help to boost those literacy levels.

    The various "Sim" games are, of course, excellent. I'd recommend Sim Earth, as it was intended to be purely educational. Sim City is, of course, a good one. Finally, though it can be considered slightly violent, depending on how you look at it, Civilization II would be an excellent choice for a strategy game.

    --

    --
    Welcome to the land of the easily amused...

    1. Re:There are Several by circletimessquare · · Score: 2

      thumbs up on the civiliation mention.

      civilization: call to power wuld be excellent. it is violent in the abstract- sending nukes over peaceful cities as represented by chessboard-like moves, for example, but nowhere near the heartpounding visceral violence of quake or unreal. maybe some will try the diplomatic path towards a peaceful victory instead that is allowed in the game, especially as a purely militaristic approach impoverishes their populace and leads towards a losing game. it is that kind of exploring your selfish options and learning that cooperative options are superior that is real learning for youth- troubled or otherwise.

      these kids will learn some history, critical thinking skills, and develop the kind of silent frontal-lobe concentration for hours that is not usually expected from troubled juvies.

      --
      intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  76. There are clans for Oregon Trail, too by tenzig_112 · · Score: 2
    Videogame-inspired off-line violence is not limited to titles like Quake and CounterStrike. Even Oregon Trail has inspired some kids to start busting musket shot caps int one another's arses.


    It isn't pretty.


    Check out this guy's tattoo if you don't believe me.


    The SomethingAwful forums had an absolutely hilarious thread along this line a few months back. I'd post a link to it, but I think their archives are currently busticated.

  77. Educational?... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Games that are fun, nonviolent, and educational... well, I would personally reccomend a lego mindstorms set, though those can get pricey. Along the eyecandy line I can reccomend the Myst series, though if you want something a little less difficult (as far as the puzzles are concerned, Myst: Exile nonwithstanding), take a look at Presto Studio's Journeyman Project line... Not only eyecandy, but it includes quite a few historical/mythological locations (the game is based on time travel) and #2 and later include a handy AI who tends to comment on items of historical significance.

    I'm actually reminded of an old game from about '94 that was called 'Heaven and Earth', which was essentially a collection of Puzzles and skill tests, ranging from the simle and fun to the mindbreakingly complex.

    Of course... well, Civilization is a good one, a bit dated, though CivII is similarly addictive, and Civilization: Call To Power isn't bad either, and allows LAN games. Call To Power II I have personal issues with, because the interface is kinda tedious, and this series may not get past the non-violent part.

    However, don't restrict yourself to computer games. If you feel like expanding into the realms of Card games and so on, I can reccomend a whole series of games. Chrononauts is a very funny and educational game, though it 'follows' a very tounge-in-cheek version of history. Similarly, many things by Cheapass Games can be fun... though you'll have to dig a bit to find something educational. :)

    I hope this was helpfull ;)

  78. card games by ForsakenRegex · · Score: 1

    Have groups of four play networked Hearts. It requires them to concentrate on strategy and it's completely non-violent. Almost any card game will do, but networked hearts used to come with Windows, so it should be relatively easy to find.

    --
    "A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."
    1. Re:card games by N3MCB · · Score: 1

      After hearts gets old they can graduate to bridge... bridge baron is non-violent, has a tutor mode, they'll learn some math, also some odds (finess or drop?), strategy, and teamwork. Turn off the conventions and play at first with natural bidding, then they can read some books and use the built in tutor to learn the common conventions.

      We have a fairly regular game here at work dring luchtime and its a great way to relax for 45min or so during the day.

  79. Some Games by Salica · · Score: 1

    Just a list of games...

    minesweeper, "solitaire" and other cards games,
    tetris, puzzle bobble,

    sokoban (one of my favorites !),

    LucasArt adventure games like Day Of The Tentacle, Sam&Max, ...

    the "Myst" series

    Where in the world/space/time/... is Carmen San Diego

    Those games are quite non-violent but can be a real pain for the nerves ;-)

  80. Gungan Frontier by gamgee5273 · · Score: 1

    That's another LucasArts game. You play either Obi-wan or Amidala and have to help the Gungans create a stable ecosystem on Naboo's moon. It's not a simple game, but it is fun and helps with natural science lessons - especially concerning food chains.

  81. Lego Alpha Team by trichard · · Score: 5, Informative

    Lego Alpha Team is a game that makes the player solve spatial puzzles to continue to the next level. The puzzles require the player to place special blocks that change the direction of movement of the on-screen characters.

    In effect, you "program" the movement to accomplish a specific goal. In fact, the playing process reminds me a great deal of programming. Kind of an edit-run-debug sort of process. You have unlimited time and lives to complete the puzzles (unlike actual programming, I guess).

    All of this is wrapped up in a action/adventure story-line which keep it engaging. My eight-year-old son loves this game and I enjoy playing it too.

    Check out the game's home page and a review at Kid's Domain.

    trichard

  82. Try building games... by Stephan+Schulz · · Score: 1
    I'm still playing Loki's version of Railroad Tycoon II for Linux. It's an excellent game, and probably can be used to teach things like basic economics, task scheduling, and so on.

    Unfortunately, many building games also have a combat component. However, at least the free demo of Caesar III is completely free from violence, it's free, and it should keep most people occupied for a couple of hours.

    I don't know if simple games like Tetris or Breakout (now that's an ideal game for juvenile offenders) fit the bill...

    --

    Stephan

  83. Hoyle's by remande · · Score: 3, Informative

    There is an entire Hoyle's series of computer games, based on non-tech standards. Hoyle's Word Games is a good vocabulary builder. Hoyle's Board Games and Hoyle's Card Games build math and general strategic skills.

    --

    --The basis of all love is respect

  84. Try this: @# +1 ; Creative #@ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Chess. If they are on-line, you can play at chess.delorie.com Have a nice day and a JonKatz-free weekend.

    1. Re:Try this: @# +1 ; Creative #@ by Gwared · · Score: 1

      Might "Go" be easier to start to learn? www.britgo.org has links to some software (free, on-line and otherwise)

  85. non violent ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It all depends on your definition of violence.
    I think Incredible Machine is violent, you can shoot the cat, the cat eats the mouse, etc.

    I was about to suggest Sid Meier's Civilization, but I realized it's all about violent military units destroying each other.

    So all I can recommend is minsweeper, solitaire, freecell and pinball.

  86. Hackers/Atari ST by Quila · · Score: 3, Funny

    There was a game called "hackers" or something like that for the Atari ST where you go rummaging through computers of big bad corporation to figure out and stop their world domination plot. It took a good amount of problem solving, and it was fun.

    Plus you get to indoctrinate the juvies on corporate evil.

  87. What about... by InSpiteOf · · Score: 1

    Puzzle Bobble...

    Or Mame equiv's...

  88. Hand of Fate by taliver · · Score: 1
    Here is a link.


    This sia great game with no violence, but lots of problem solving. It includes a neat inverted Tower of Hanoi problem in it that takes a while to recognize. I haven't played any other games in the series, but this one's pretty good.

    --

    I demand a million helicopters and a DOLLAR!

  89. Problem solving + fun + relaxing by Cirrius · · Score: 1

    I remember a game from around 96 called Endorfun.

    It starts out simple, rolling around a cube on a grid, going after colored boxes. The cube is a different color on each side, and you have to roll over the colored grid square with the same color on top of the cube. Once you get the hang of it, it makes small increases in difficulty.

    It challenges creativity, thinking of different ways to land the cube on the colored grid with the correct color on top, and also challenges problem solving skills.

    The kicker is that behind the music, it has positive reinforcement subliminal messages.

  90. No violence = absolutely zero? by AndyChrist · · Score: 1

    Creatures has very little violence, although some people might be tempted to beat their creatures to death, and in Creatures 3, it is VERY easy to kill Creatures of all sorts in creative ways (set the norn detector to activate the sludge cannon, for example). But otherwise, it is interesting, and a fairly intellectually challenging game.

    Virtually any puzzle game would fit the bill.

    Racing games tend not to be violent, although you could take up ramming other cars, as well. Many of these allow customization of cars. The ever-popular Gran Turismo series being one of the best examples. (Use Bleem! if you can't use playstations.)

    Non-combat flight sims only allow self-abuse.

  91. Counterstrike! by Rayonic · · Score: 1

    That should satisfy your no-violins-in-games policy!

  92. If I was them.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If I was them and somebody tried to give me a non-violent, constructive game I would probably rebel and become violent ("ya trying to brain wash me, lady!?" "no, no, come back johny, don't you like this nice videogame with britney spears?" "NO!" BANG BANG BANG!!!) After all, they are teenagers... Hell, I would not be responsable for my acts if someone tries to take away from me my sweet and violent Quake!

    But, uhm, racing games aren't violent and kids love them (and since you say they aren't very smart, I would sugest an arcade racing game, like Daytona USA)! And watch out: the X-Box can be turned into a lethal weapon in the hands of marketing, err, "troubled" kids.

  93. dr. brain games? by gerald626 · · Score: 1

    What about the Sierra Dr. Brain games? I don't remember those being vilent.

    Gerald626

    1. Re:dr. brain games? by John+F.+Ketamine · · Score: 1

      I don't remember those being particularly fun either.

      Remember, a game is useless unless it's fun. You can be tempted to buy the game but it doesn't get to "second base" unless you actually enjoy the experience. The reason Lemmings and such don't get as much press or fans is because frankly, playing Diablo 2 is a hell of a lot more fun than that, plain and simple. Hmm, solve spacial-relations puzzles, or hit zombies with a stick? I pick the latter, and I don't feel guilty about it at all.

      --
      "Upgrade your grey matter, 'cause one day it may matter." --Deltron Zero
  94. Sierra Games by smnolde · · Score: 1

    Leisure Suit Larry

    'nuff said.

  95. Problem with the Prison System by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know this is juvenile detention centre but shouldn't these kids be working on their social skills more and not on computers? This is the problem with the juvenile detention system in the US. Let's deal with the PROBLEMS that got them there in the first place; i.e. their lack of social skills first. These kids DON'T DESERVE GAMES or COMPUTERS they should be face the consequences of their actions head on and not get "rewarded" by playing games.

  96. Here's some by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have seen a couple of very educational games that involve little or no violence.

    Bugbrain
    http://www.australianwildlife.com.au/bugbrain/ho me .htm
    Build neural networks that act as the brains for bugs, then test the bugs in the world

    Mindrover
    www.mindrover.com
    Create brains for vehicles so they can solve mazes, follow lines, battle, etc.

    Robocode
    http://robocode.alphaworks.ibm.com/home/home.htm l
    Learn to program in Java as you develop the brains for robots. Starts very simply, gets much more complicated...
    Good for kids or adults

  97. The Bridge Building Game! by ObligatoryUserName · · Score: 5, Informative

    I've recently been consumed by the non-violent fun found in Bridge Builder (fulfill all your secret engineering fantasies), as well as the cartoon physics motorcycle puzzle game. Bridge Builder is Free (as in Beer), and the motorcycle game has an 18 level shareware version.

    1. Re:The Bridge Building Game! by EisPick · · Score: 2

      I've recently been consumed by the non-violent fun found in Bridge Builder

      Somebody should mod this up. I just downloaded Bridge Builder, and it's definitely very cool.

    2. Re:The Bridge Building Game! by Saeger · · Score: 1
      I absolutely LOVE physics simulations -- any way I can get them.

      From Lunar Lander (the original), to that Java Soda Constructor, to (old)vids of Halo's hyped IK, to scene collision demo's, to educational sim software where I remember stitching together objects with springs and smashing them against walls with 10000E100N of force...

      Can't wait till more games are based on a detailed physical model...

      --
      Power to the Peaceful
  98. Rocky's Boots by Snowfox · · Score: 2
    Man - no kid should grow up without playing Rocky's Boots. I wish this would be updated, as the graphics are a bit ancient.

    What's cooler than a raccoon running about teaching you how to build circuits? Admittedly it's meant for 8-year olds, but all EE courses should be this amusing...

    1. Re:Rocky's Boots by Dahan · · Score: 1

      Yeah, Rocky's Boots was great, as was Robot Odyssey. No 'coon in that one though, as it was geared towards older kids, and was a lot harder too. I had to get a EE senior friend to help me solve one of the puzzles near the end (he taught me Karnaugh mapping :).

  99. Lemonade stand - Teaches supply & demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    http://www.littlejason.com/lemonade/
    -
    we played a mac version of this game all through grade 5 & 6, it was the best... really competitive to see who can become the lemon baron. I don't know if this net version is any good, but I'm sure you could locate a version of the old software if necesary.

  100. Very nice game ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0



    Play Half-Life !!!

    euh.. you want no violence ? Play in Crowbar mode !!! :oP

    1. Re:Very nice game ! by Boxcarwilli · · Score: 1

      Ya because beating the crap out of someone with the crowbar is so much less violent then just shooting them. Smarty Phants.

  101. The Incredible Machine is VIOLENT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    In the Incredible Machine, you drop bowling balls on cats, drop things off high platforms, and cats eat mice. I seem to remember some more traditional weapons in there as well too.


    This is not what I'd consider non-violent. You'd probably do well to drop it from your list.

  102. The Incredible Machine by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

    The Incredible Machine is a game for kids but even as an adult I love to play this game.

    --
    This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
  103. Uhm... Incredible Machine... by motox · · Score: 1

    I think incredible machien would lead to an increased number of escapes from alcatraz :> hehe
    Just kidding...
    What about adventure games like monkey island (well, not ESCAPE FROM MONKEY ISLAND hehe)or grim fandango ? For guys that are in isolation, ofcourse windows "solitaire" its your best choice :>>

  104. Devil Dice! by Chibi · · Score: 1

    http://psx.ign.com/reviews/3896.html

    Problably one of the more clever games I've seen is called "Devil Dice." The name comes from the fact that the main character is a devil, and he has to move dice. From the review:

    "The object of the game is to tumble dice in limited moves to match up numerically with other dice and beat either a clock or an opponent."

    The game is pretty simple, but it requires critical thinking, puzzle solving, and some use of math.

    It's definitely a unique game, and it can be quite addicting. :-) It's for the original PlayStation, BTW.

    --
    If all you have are silver bullets, everything looks like a werewolf.
  105. echo by dermotfitz · · Score: 1

    never played it but I always thought it was a cool idea to be a dolphin. "Echo the Dolphin" I believe is the name of the game. I don't think it is violent but there may be some shark killing involved. Oh and Tetris. I have never hurt anyone while I was in a Tetris dream. I also liked Oilcap - the one where you have to be a plumber and stop the oil from spilling.

    --

    How perfectly goddamn delightful it all is, to be sure. - Charles Crumb
  106. Creatures! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Creatures comes to my mind. Do you allow cartoon violence? Worms Armageddon is somehow violent, but in a funny way.

  107. lemmings a no-go due to violence by Brian+Ristuccia · · Score: 2

    The lemmings can be made to explode after a 5-10 second countdown. Also, they get killed by falling into flames, hot acid, on hard/sharp surfaces, etc.

  108. Neverhood by dingbat_hp · · Score: 2

    Cute problem solver (although it's a "play it once and then not again"). If you get stuck you wander round and round for ever, but you can't (almost!) kill the character off. One of the designer's aims was to make a fun non-violent game, and they succeeded pretty well.

    Very nice visuals too. No rendering - they just made it all of plasticine and filmed it.

    1. Re:Neverhood by Zach+Baker · · Score: 2

      However, note that The Neverhood [Chronicles] is a hard-to-find game that regularly changes hands for no less than $40 on eBay. Whereas, say, Klik & Play is $9 (and free for schools).

  109. My personal favorite non-violence by dilvish_the_damned · · Score: 1

    is Riven. Lots of wierd interesting stuff with a hint of problem solving.

    --
    I think you underestimate just how much I just dont care.
  110. obvious? by awb131 · · Score: 1

    This is the karma equivalent of shooting myself in the kneecap, but...

    If their literacy levels are so low, why not spend that time teaching them to be better readers?

    --
    "There is no night so forlorn, no mood so bleak, that it cannot be infused with pleasure by tender meat..." - R.W. Apple
  111. make games don't play 'em! by neo-phyter · · Score: 1

    Have them learn a programming language--that'd be far more productive than having them play games. Have them make pong, or something simple like that.
    A

  112. Bridge builder by notext · · Score: 1

    It only runs on windows unfortunately, but its educational and addicting. The other downside is while the game has no violence, it led me to violence acts :)

    Bridge builder

  113. some good games, somewhat educational by room101 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Here are some good ones, the educational value is subjective, and of course, ymmv.

    as mentioned before, sim* (city, etc.) Teaches management/juggleing; also, life isn't always "fair", you just take life as it comes.

    also mentioned: mindrover (maybe too advanced--don't know what age group target--but a great game. Teaches engineering/scientific thinking, and trial and error. Great one for "learning by doing".

    rollercoaster tycoon, et al. (all "tycoon" games are pretty good, you have to run your own [fill in the blank], very mind engaging) They would probably like the rollercoaster tycoon the best, but they are all good and teach organization and management. Fun to watch your theme park flurish.

    train simulator (new, never played it, got good reviews)

    homeworld/homeworld cataclysm (maybe these have "violence", but no blood and guts, so depending on your defininition... the ships just blow up, Star Wars style, so G-rated violence.) teaches organization and resourse allocation.

    Hope these help.

    --
    room101 -- how much can you stand before they break you?
    (they always break you eventually)
  114. Dweep by youngerpants · · Score: 1

    If you've never heard of it, dont knock it. It is disgustingly cutsy, but strangly addictive & will improve problem solving skills for anyone who lives in the world of Dweep

  115. Lemmings... by frleong · · Score: 1

    teach you to commit suicide to save your neighbors.

    --
    ¦ ©® ±
  116. Re:Blame Adequacy! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ROFLMFAO.

    However, you seem to have misspelled adaquecy.

  117. Counter-strike by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    They could play counter-strike and just hide behind cover like the rest of those camping bastards. They'd never experience any real violence except the occasional shot that kills them, but they wouldn't really see that anyway. Plus, they'd learn the important value of hiding from your problems until they go away.

  118. well, its not first person violent... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I say Total Annihilation is an excelent game to teach overall strategy without the key aspects of battlefield logistics and resource planning. Its all done with robots so no 'body' actually get hurt. Its a strech but I think its a worthwhile game for cognitive development.

    1. Re:well, its not first person violent... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      um, I meant WITH key aspects of battlefield logistics and resource planning. I need coffee ;)

  119. Educational Suggestions by CaffeineAddict2001 · · Score: 1

    Grand Theft Auto, Theif: The Dark Project, Kingpin or Chaos Overlords..

    If they are older machines, maybe Ganja Farmer or Carribian Contraband.

    "Career Simulators" is how you catagorize them.

    1. Re:Educational Suggestions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's not forget Hitman and the oldie-but-goodie PimpWars!

  120. Wholesome Entertainment by wardomon · · Score: 1
    For a detention center, the Thief series would be excellent. They already have the basic skills. As far as violence goes, there are no guns and at the most difficult setting, if you kill someone you lose the game. What finer lesson could you want to teach?

    I tried to use the game titles as a subject, but the lameness filter kicked in. Go figure.

    --

    - - - If the sun is a star, why can't I see it at night?
  121. Games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well all the good games are old. Try theme park/hospital, or the sim games as everybody has suggested.

    On RPGs maybe try the Ultima series - they did stress all those virtues (can't remember what exactly they were) but probably good for children.

    My vote goes to getting Age of Empires or something - its fun, it teaches strategy, and AoE 2 had those educational introductions to the middle ages (I wouldn't have knwon what a trebuchet was without it).

    Can't think of much else...

  122. logo by crowke · · Score: 1

    give them Logo or something? maybe the realbasic (reviewed a few days ago at O'reilly)

  123. The Sims by SyntheticTruth · · Score: 1

    This might have already been mentioned, but The Sims would work great. Mostly icon based, teaches problem solving, basic budget management, and maybe an added benefit considering your situation, but also basic human interaction. (Being nice is better, etc... ;)

  124. A few I hope will work by Dark+Paladin · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm trying to define "no violence" as anything that might insite the kids to riot. So here's my short list:

    1. Myst/Riven/Myst III (well, if you get around Myst III's copy protection). Games with lot's o' puzzles, interesting plots, and should keep them engrossed for awhile and make them think.

    2. The Longest Journey - another adventure game, but really, really good. Yes, the main character does have an underwear scene, but it's tame.

    3. Gadget Tycoon - teach folks how to run a business. A little on the hard side, but interesting.

    4. Tritrys - I've known many a person to be addicted to this one.

    5. Lode Runner. 'Nuff said.

    That should get you started. Most of your "non-violent" games are going to be of the adventure/puzzle variety. I'd also see what the limits of "non-violent" are - would 4X games (like Starships Unlimited) count? Racing games (Mario Kart - sounds stupid, but loads of fun) might also be up the alley.

    1. Re:A few I hope will work by esper_child · · Score: 1

      Actually doesn't the Longest Journey have an M or a T rating (can't find my box anywhere around here) Not exactly something i would perscribe for a kid anyways, great game though.

    2. Re:A few I hope will work by Dark+Paladin · · Score: 2

      Well, I'm assuming if they're in Juvi, they're at least over 12 - and I'd probably let the kids play it if they were over 14.

      Of course, I could be wrong.

  125. Sokoban by Tet · · Score: 3, Informative

    The title says it all. Sokoban is great for encouraging people to think about the consequences of actions, and to plan ahead.

    --
    "The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
  126. another great game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Try the game Myst

  127. What about those old Adventure games like by Gehenna_Gehenna · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Grim Fandango or Escape from monkey island. True, they are occasionally violent, but for the most pat the focus more on problem solving and humor.

    --

  128. !!Lemonade!!! by Spankophile · · Score: 2

    THe best educational games I played while I was a kid were on the C64. I'm sure they are ported in various ways to other systems, but my favourites were:

    Lemonade (Capitalist fun)
    Oregon Trail (pioneering, resource management)

  129. No violence? by thejake316 · · Score: 1

    That even rules out some Tetris-like puzzle games where you can drop bombs on a color to make it disappear, space-invaders style arcade math games where you shoot the right answer, and puzzle games like Lemmings where the cute little freaks can die grusome deaths if you dig in the wrong spot. Even SimCity has a violent subtext, with crime being one of the factors under your control and disasters like Godzilla-like creature bashing up your town.

    Pretending violence doesn't exist within the confines of a detention center doesn't prepare malefactors for release into the general populace where force and the threat of force is basically the glue of society. Let them eat Quake.

    --
    AC's cheerfully ignored
  130. Forget the games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Get 'em some Vaseline and send 'em on over to goatse.cx. Get them prepared for real prison since that's where they are headed anyways.

  131. On-Line Games by paulbort · · Score: 1

    I've downloaded a couple of games from poptop.com lately that are completely abstract and non-violent, like Bejeweled. And the price is right too.

    --
    -- Spring: Forces, coiled again!
  132. Skip the games... by TomRC · · Score: 1

    Get them hooked on something interesting in real life - chess isn't a bad idea, music could do it, putting together a play, designing their own game, mock stock market investment, a mock (or real) small business, etc. One good one is learning to fix computers!

    Then use the computer to help organize and keep track of that activity. Let them use word processors, music editors, databases for inventory, checking and accounting software, spreadsheet for analysis, paint programs, presentation makers, etc. Let them learn
    to program, how to create cool web pages, etc.

  133. Bridge Builder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.bridgebuilder-game.com/

  134. Pong? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Has anyone mentioned pong yet? Sports games are generally non-violent (although in some hockey games you can get into fist fights with the other players).

  135. Creatures by cerebus99 · · Score: 1

    It is a digital DNA type game- you can breed these little digital creatures and train them to do different things- I believe that thier is also a Creatures 2, so I am not sure about the availablity.

  136. Mario by Apreche · · Score: 1

    Buy N64s Gamecubes and GBAs. Then stock up on everything Mario. Fun for all ages.

    --
    The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
  137. For Programming by yoshi_mon · · Score: 1

    If it's not too advanced, Robocode, by IBM's Alphaworks is a real cool way to get into programming Java.

    While the robots can take damage and blow up, idea behind it requires a lot of actual thinking and codeing.

    For more info, there is a thread over on K5 about it.

    --

    Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
  138. good games, education included by slaida1 · · Score: 1
    First and best that comes to mind is Civilization by Microprose, original version. It tells the most important advances in history and shows their effects. It's violence is on par with a chess: there's icons for tanks and infantry but no visualized fights.

    Role playing games are cool but often alienating and violent, Jones In The Fast Lane by Sierra isn't one of those. It's a career simulator: go to a job, earn money. Check it out.

    Other old but good adventure games (by Lucas Arts or Sierra) are:

    Monkey Island (trilogy), one of the best adventure games all time.

    Day Of The Tentacle, very funny, history-oriented ...sort of.

    Loom, beautiful fairytale story altough a bit old, EGA graphics. That didn't matter when I played it, I was really hooked by the story.

    Leisure Suit Larry series, women chasing and lot's of jokes, maybe not very suitable for sexual offenders..

    --
    Preserve old classics: copy your collection onto all hard drives.
  139. Sports Titles? by deebaine · · Score: 2
    I agree that for those with the attention span, Myst or the Sim-series games are excellent choices. For those who might want something a bit faster paced, I might suggest any of the sports titles with a career or franchise option. The actual arcade game is pretty much a time-waster, but making people interact in a simulated "league" with other competing team owners and attempt to develop a franchise over the long term might be an interesting exercise.


    -db

  140. Train Simulator by argel · · Score: 1

    Microsoft Train Simulator might be a good choice. It is more challenging than it may seem. For passenger trains you have deadlines to meet (get to this station at time X) and they up the ante by putting track under maintenance (have to go slower) or rerouting because of problems forcing you to try and make up lost time.

    For freight some of the harder scenarios have you maunally building the consist yourself -- imagine having to foigure out which tracks you need to be on to get each car added to the train in the correct order so that they can be dropped off in the correct order. It's like a puzzle game.

    In all scenarios the user is rated for minor screwups, where you were speeding, and whether you jarred the cargo/passengers too much.

    And I have not even tried the steam engines yet!

    Train Simulator Website

    --

    -- Argel
  141. Slashdotters... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Make good suggestions because you will be the ones playing these games if you are so lucky to end up in juvenile detention when the DMCA/SSSCA Enforcement Agency cracks down on your criminal behavior. If you're too old to be sent to juvenile detention you'd better check out GOAT SEX for some valuable information you'll need in prison. Practice it every day because you'll need to know it in prison.

  142. Oldie but goodie and non-violent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Gizmos and Gadgets. Very educational.

  143. Of course the Civilization series... by Vajsvarana · · Score: 1

    I think that Civilization is one of the most educative games ever (if you mean a game which makes you think!)

    Sure there is the concept of "war, but sincerly I can't believe that someone can find any "violence" in the way it is represented.

    Maybe, due to graphical evolution, Civ III "Call To Power" can be more appealing to younger people, which is important if you want they get involved in the game enough to appreciates its dynamics and strategies.

    Ok, now let's start celebrating our "We Love Sid Meier Day"!

  144. Japanese games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Japanese games usually lack violence. Try Parappa, it is very funny :-)

  145. Educational Titles Aren't All Silly by lynuhx · · Score: 1
    I'm a 34 year old father that works at home and we support an 8 node network in our converted garage. As would be suspected, my nearly 4 year old daughter has her own computer (a Mac) and plays on it daily. Though there has been a stated disdain for educational titles, not all are so cliched, and I should know. We own nearly every commercial educational title.


    Titles to check out would be the Putt Putt!, Freddy Fish, (and my personal fave) Pajama Sam series of adventure games from Humongous Entertainment. Well drawn, humorous, educational, and lacking violence, these titles are engaging and challenging.


    I would urge that you at least check out one Pajama Sam title. Of course, if you are interested in purely entertainment titles that offer no violence or educational value, try out the racing sims like any Nascar title, the various Microsoft racing titles, HydroThunder and San Francisco Rush 2049 for DreamCast, the Need For Speed series, or Fly!, the flight simulator.


    HTH

  146. Tony Hawk Pro Skater 2 by kid_koexist · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This game has the highest replay value of any that I've ever played, and is non-violent (unless you count the blood that sprays from your face if you land a trick wrong ;)

    They've even released a Mac version, although I think the Dreamcast version is tops.

    --
    --just kicked back like italics
  147. Adventure Games by SilentDissonance · · Score: 1

    Recently, I've been enthralled with FUN.COM's The Longest Journey. Great game, excellent story and voice acting. Also, unlike most adventure games, I haven't gotten stuck yet :).

    You might want to play through the game first, because there is a bit of "strong language" uttered from the mouth of the lead character (she's a college student majoring in liberal arts, and it fits her).

  148. OXYD by Mozo · · Score: 1

    An "old favorite" from the mid-90's is "Oxyd" from Dongleware. It's a fascinating puzzle game that has you navigating a marble around.

    The first ten levels were free to try it out, and it should still be out there for download.

    --
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= John Reinert Nash -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  149. Sokoban (adictive and many implementations) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    It is addictive non-violent strategy puzzle.
    There are many implementations:
    • Free Windows version
      Sokoban (also this page has a lot of
      links to other versions and resources).

    • A X11 version
      Xsokoban

    • For KDE:
      ksokoban

    • A generic version: xsok (GPL'ed) with .rpm and .deb packages available.
    • Mac, Java, etc. versions...


    There also are many add-on levels, themes... and
    other games similar to it, you can find in the
    links resources from the pages above.
  150. Sokoban by GuySmiley · · Score: 1

    Sokoban is on many platforms, does not need massive graphics, and has many challenging levels. Some levels need to simmer for a few days before solving them.

    search google for a download site

    --
    Hey, leave comments about my mother out of this!
  151. Try Interactive Fiction (text adventures) by libertynews · · Score: 1

    You should check out the IF community. Take a look at the links from www.guetech.org links page. Also check out the rec.games.int-fiction and rec.arts.int-fiction newsgroups. There is an archive of IF games and authoring systems at my mirror site at ftp.guetech.org/if-archive that includes games, interpreters (needed to play the games) and authoring systems to write games.

    If you could get them involved in this it would be a big benefit to them! You have to read and think logically (in some games illogically) in order to solve the games, and you can even write your own and learn how to program at the same time (TADS and Inform are the most popular authoring systems). There is a wide selection of free games to play, including the Infocom games available from Activision.

    Brian

    --
    Remember Lexington Green!
  152. Level Editor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Install Qeradiant and let them build quake levels.

  153. Along those same lines... by H0NGK0NGPH00EY · · Score: 2

    Grim Fandango is also an excellent problem-solving game. And it has an amusing and engrossing story line.

    --
    Do not read this sig.
  154. Older games by davidtupper · · Score: 1

    I have a copy of a game called The Robot Club which is squarely aimed at your likely age group, pre-teen to 16-17years. No violence at all, you just build robots to accomplish preset tasks using pre-existing components and a very basic scripting language (actually the programs are mostly GUI). This came out of a bargain bin at a surplus store to give some idea of its commercial success but it is still a fun game even for older kids (I am 36)

  155. Netset by magullo · · Score: 1

    This is a widely available freeware version of the "Settlers of Catan" (Kolonisten) board. It is a network game with no A.I., but otherwise it is an incredibly adictive game (in any form, virtual or not). Simple rules, complex strategy, no violence.

  156. puzzle games by pbemfun · · Score: 1

    I think any puzzle games such as Tetris or Pandora's Box would be good. These are non-violent and actually intellectually stimulating!

    Tyler

  157. Journeyman Project by esper_child · · Score: 2, Informative

    What about The Journeyman Project series. Much more entertaining than the myst series, and there is deffinately more thinking involved (or atleast their was for me). Plus, time travel just plain kicks ass.

    1. Re:Journeyman Project by cybersquid · · Score: 1

      While I concur, there is an additional point the emphasize: these games are actually educational.

      This aspect of the series was never highly promoted. One suspects that the "E" word is the mark of death for a computer game.

    2. Re:Journeyman Project by esper_child · · Score: 1

      i know, which is a shame as this is probly one of best series to be playing, i mean you think and learn during it (god forbid this happens in the days of FPS games (minus a few like system shock and deus ex which actually involve thinking)) I would love to see a fourth in the series.

  158. Tranquility www.tqworld.com by dbmat · · Score: 2

    If you're using macs, check out Tranquility at www.tqworld.com. The name explains it all -- it's the most relaxing, engrossing computer program I've ever encountered.

    --
    I smell home cooking! It's only the river... It's only the river.
    1. Re:Tranquility www.tqworld.com by presearch · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yeah. Thanks!
      We've been trying to pioneer this non--violent, non-lingual, no-short-term-memory, no-threat genre (more for adults than kids) but we heard from a lot of people that no weapons etc. was not "exciting" enough. As if reef diving in the real world wasn't exciting unless a shark was after you... On the other hand, our players that "get it" are somewhat fanatical.

      Bill Romanowski
      TQworld

  159. It's the games that are the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It has recently been reported on /. ( here) and elsewhere ( here) that video games stunt the brain. The problem with violent video games seems to be the fact that it is a video game, rather than the violence.

    So you would probably be much better off hiding the computers and getting the students to read out loud.

  160. Don;t forget by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sim CrackDealer

    Sim Pimp

    Sim Whore (For the girls in the group)

    Sim Drive By Shooting

    Sim 7-11

    Sim CourtRoom (Better get them used to it!)

    Sim Kiddie Fiddler

    Sim A&E Department (Again, better get them used to it)

    Got to get those kids prepared for their lives!

    1. Re:Don;t forget by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Could you get me a copy of that Sim Kiddie Fiddler thing? Thanks.

      Patrick "Shithook" Bateman

  161. Tetris is not available for *NIX systems by yerricde · · Score: 2

    try TuxTyping or Tetris

    The Tetris Company has not authorized any TETRIS® brand product that runs on a GNU, BSD, or UNIX® system. However, you can try one of my t*tr*s clones, which may help victims of the War on Some Drugs get off mescaline. (A non-drug version called freepuzzlearena is also available.)

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
  162. I got a good one by xZAQx · · Score: 1

    QUAKE 3!!

    Oh wait, you said non-violent?

    WTF is that?

    --

    We dance to all the wrong songs.
    --Refused.
  163. Not already mentioned by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How about the real old classic 'Go' (any PC version should suffice) or Lucas Learning's Pit Droids (much like Lemmings w/o any violence and more logical thinking).

  164. Sims, strategy games by cyclist1200 · · Score: 1

    Try Roller Coaster Tycoon, SimCity. Civilization would be good, but I don't know if it would be considered violent.

  165. Computer programming is very appropriate here by toontalk · · Score: 2, Informative

    The best way "to engage students' creativity and problem solving skills" is computer programming. Several people have suggested some very good special purpose programming languages:

    Incredible Machine, Mind Rover, Lemmings (a slight stretch), LEGO Mindstorms, Rocky's Boots (and Robot Odyssey should be included here)

    Someone's suggestion to try Java was called "cruel and unusual punishment" and that is probably accurate but some general purpose programming languages are appropriate:

    Logo is being used in a few Juvenile Detention Centers. Seymour Papert is involved in such a project.

    Stagecast Creator is pretty simple and sort of general.

    ToonTalk (my baby) is a general purpose programming language that looks and feels like a computer game.

  166. dreamcast anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do puzzle games count as educational?

    Chu Chu Rocket! That's what they should play in juvi... but maybe just the puzzle mode... I could imagine some knife fights breaking out after a particularly competitive round of 4-player. ;)

    -claim-

  167. Lineage The Bloodpledge by Refuter · · Score: 1

    Even though the title might seem bloody or violent, the game play is rather not. It is based on leadership more and its quite interesting to play and requires lots of thinking.

  168. The Lost Mind of Dr. Brain by mobiGeek · · Score: 1
    One game I got with a computer package back in 1996 is "The Lost Mind of Dr. Brain" by Sierra.

    The game is dated from a graphics standpoint, but the playability and the problem-solving in it are fantastic. Even most adults will find the advanced level challenging.

    I found this review of the game, but there seems to be a lot of webpages devoted to this topic.

    Hope this helps.

    --

    ...Beware the IDEs of Microsoft...

  169. Question is... by Vajsvarana · · Score: 1

    Question that raises here is if you think that being "barely literate juvenile delinquents" is:

    - a temporary situation that you will try to correct.

    - a fact against which you will simply resign.

    In the first case stimulate them with games that "forces" them to learn and think should be your way, altough a very hard one at start.

    If you resign then you're probably the wrong man in the wrong place...

  170. Linux Non-Violentgames by michaelsimms · · Score: 2

    We have the following non-violent games at Tux Games
    Erics Ultimate Solitaire
    Krilo
    Mindrover
    Railroad Tycoon II
    Reel Deal Slots (tho this is gambling so maybe not)
    Wurstelstand

    Mindrover and Krilo especially are good for problem solving.

    --

    Tux Games. Your complete source for native Linux games.
  171. Definitely a good influence for inmates by Conspiracy_Of_Doves · · Score: 1

    I was going to mention that one. I'm glad it got some lip service. There is a bit of violence in it, although not perpetrated by the main character. A couple of people, the protagonist's friends, get shot (not killed). All in all, it's a great game.

  172. Sierra Graphical-Text Adventure by Krimsen · · Score: 1

    To add a little graphics to the text, how about those Sierra Games such as King's Quest series, the Police Quest Series, the Space Quest Series, etc... Especially the earlier ones that required typing in order to accomplish tasks.

  173. Anything by Sid Meir by C.+Mattix · · Score: 1

    Civilazation, Civ 2, Alpha Centauri.

    They have violence in them, but it is highly abstracted. Those games are the best for problem solving and abstract thinking in my opnion.

  174. Only ones I can think of.. by iforgotmyfirstlogon · · Score: 1

    SimEarth is non-violent and interesting, but old. Maxis also had a little-known game called A-Train that is more about economic development than anything else. Also old, and hard to find. Pure simulation games, like driving games and flight games also have their non-violent versions.

    - Freed

    --
    "Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love." -Turkish Proverb
  175. Good strategic thinking games by Torodung · · Score: 1


    Bullfrog games has some wonderful strategy stuff. Theme Hospital may be just what your looking for, as it has all sorts of sick and quite scatalogical humour and the worst violence is clicking on the rats that infest your hospital. Most of the game is visually oriented (not too much literacy needed, just a bit of a learning curve). Obviously, Dungeon Keeper is right out.
    Frogger 2 is actually a good game for thinking and planning ahead. It's got the action, but the only way to really win is to be patient, no matter how hairy things get, and think about your next move. Once your students figure out how to complete a level there are other strategy options, like how do you get all the coins. I don't know if the in-game movies of the bad guy chucking baby frogs around or Frogger getting sliced in half by a cartoon circular saw are appropriate to your non-violent game mandate though. Let's put it this way, The Powerpuff Girls has worse violence.
    A large Solitaire package is perfect. One that has a lot of different varieties, like Bicycle's.
    If you're looking for a real pull out the Haldol sort of game, there's always stuff like Reversi, TaiPei (Mahjong tile removal game), Minesweeper etc. from the venerable old Windows entertainment pack, most of these games are easily available on Linux as well.
    Finally, you've got to love Tux Racer, proving once again that penguins can fly!
    I love flying penguins, don't you?
    Torodung

  176. Yahoo! Games by Sylistron · · Score: 1

    Always a fun, violence free place to chill.

  177. SimCity Violence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You don't really see the details, but how do you think that deploying police manages to break up rioters? You can kid yourself, but you deep down you know that the cops are using their billyclubs to bust the heads of the striking teachers.

    Oh, and what about fires? What about the people who lived in the houses that were turned to ash? They didn't all get out; there are blackened bones in those rubble piles. Maybe having one's flesh consumed by flame is technically violence if the fire was started naturally (i.e. not arson) but it's still pretty horrific.

    Oh, and make no mistake: when you raise taxes beyond the ability of certain businessmen's ability to pay, you know they don't all just retire gracefully. Surely there's a few who take the coward's way out. Call it suicide if you must, but we all know it's really murder by taxes.

  178. GollyGee Blocks by Jonathan+Blocksom · · Score: 1

    3D building blocks on the computer. No violence, no dancing bears, just plain building.

  179. Lego SW is pretty good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lego Loco has some neat multi-user things, and Lego Creator is ligh-weight lego CAD.

  180. Ultima Online or Everquest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Those games are full of sociopathic player killers ... they'll fit right in. Either that or they will learn what it is like to be preyed upon.

    All poor-taste joking aside, these MMORPGs are beginning to take the form of virtual-cultures that have their own sandbox reality that might allow the inmates to still interact with the rest of the world in a controlled manner.

  181. NO! by alta · · Score: 5, Funny

    great, just we need a bunch of kids stuck in fantasy land when they get out of the joint. I can see it now, they get released, what do they do?

    Go north
    go north
    go east
    pick up stick
    beat old man
    You've gained experience!
    You've looted 3 silver pieces!
    Go east
    go east...

    --
    Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are subtle, and quick to anger.
    1. Re:NO! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, terribly bored at the moment..

      >n
      You are on 1st Ave.
      A man is here.
      >mug man
      what?
      Man leaves east
      >e
      You are in a dark alley.
      A man is here.
      >loot man
      what?
      >kill man
      Ok.
      You hit man hard.
      Man misses you.
      You hit man with a bone-crushing sound.
      Man scratches you.
      You massacrate man into tiny fragments.
      Man dies.
      >get all from corpse
      You get crack pipe from corpse.
      You are hungry.
      >use pipe
      Nothing happens.
      >bury corpse
      You can't do that here.
      >get corpse
      You can't carry any more.
      >eat corpse
      You eat corpse.
      You are no longer hungry.
      >w

    2. Re:NO! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Not all muds are 'line 'em up and swing'. Tempora Heroica at

      telnet://titan.ibiblio.org:2895

      focuses on a rich environment where players who suceed are forced to search, explore, try things, fiddle with puzzles, etc.

  182. all that software is a waste unless... by TwoEdge77 · · Score: 1

    Any software without proper guidance and motivation is a waste. Many people made sugestions but no one spoke of creating first an environment where learning and self expression and respect is supported. Children need guidance, role models and a place and people they can trust with their woes. They are not chickens or rats in a cage where one places items for them to learn with food rewards.

  183. Music Programs by a!b!c! · · Score: 1

    Why not give them access to music programs. What better way to fuel their creativity then exploring delicious beats and slamin basslines. There are many cheap and good programs that will allow students to express and explore music. It enables them to feel good about themselves, develop skills, and even get interested in an profession!!

    As for learning...
    If they get excited, they will naturally want to learn more. First, they will learn what all the knobs do on an external level. (This will turn a bleep into a bloop) But eventually, they may want a deeper understadning ( The square -wave is getting sent through a filter having its harmonics cut off) And a rare few may want even deeper understanding( lets hack the source code)

    The music programs have a learning curve. But something simple like ReBirth, gives them enough of an initial satisfaction to keep playing. Well, providing enough flexibility for continued exploration.

    Online beatboxes at:
    http://www.postmodemist.com

  184. Any good strategic turn-based game. by Crio · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Really. Violence in the turn-based strategy is very abstract and, most important, you never have adrenaline rush due to it (that's what should be avoided, as far as I understand).
    All kinds of Civilazation, Master of Orion, Master of Magic, xyz General and so on.

    Learning curve may be a bit too steep, though.

  185. Bridge Builder by dave-fu · · Score: 1

    Forget what it's called now, but you build bridges and run trains across them.
    It's Tetris for the new generation. Not that there's anything wrong with Tetris or they shouldn't be playing Tetris, because they should.

    --
    Easy does it!
    This comment has been submitted already, 276865 hours , 59 minutes ago. No need to try again.
  186. Can you Make it to oregon by Drath · · Score: 1

    Go with everyone's favorite pioneer sim, Oregon Trail. Although they may consider the hunting for food part too violent. (Samuel gets 856lb of food, can only carry 100)

    Plus my whole family always gets cholera.. awww

  187. One of my recent favorites by Monthenor · · Score: 1

    Bridge Builder. No idea if the shareware version is out there for download (there were (tm) problems with the name), but it's a simple problem solving game that teaches physics at the same time.

    And I dare all y'all that still have the game to make 15 one-use bridges like me and my buds did :) First train makes it across with all cars intact, but it breaks struts that would keep a second train from crossing...

    --
    Co-founder of GerbilMechs
  188. non-violent but fun by orange_6 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Thinking of the institution you are involved with, many of them probably grew up playing/watching completely violent games being played. How many of them are actually going to want to play puzzle games, text based games or anything without a fancy little GUI to go along with it? Probably not too many, IMO.

    Why not try to get them involved in actual games like chess or Risk, Axis and Allies, etc...all of these made it to PC/PS/Nintendo in one form or another, if you must stick to that route.

    The question is, do you really want them to be involved with a medium that they are already familiar with or do you want them to concentrate on deeper thinking and problem solving, or possibly gaining an increased interest in a tech related field via the games?

  189. Sims, SimCity, etc. by sdhupelia · · Score: 1

    I have to agree, I think the Sims is probably the best non-violent game I've ever played. Further, it really makes it fun just to be playing a character with a normal, routine lifestyle. SimCity 3000, Roller Coaster Tycoon, SimPark, etc., would all be great. They're accessible at many different age levels, and all involve problem-solving, critical thinking, long term planning, short term risks/benefits, etc.

  190. Lemmings IS Violent by k31 · · Score: 1

    How can you call Lemmings non-violent? Lemmings are blown up, squashed, spalt into the ground and discentegrate... and sometimes it is necessary to sacrifice little cute lemmings to win levels.

    Not saying this is a bad thing, the game is fun and I enjoyed every second playing it (well, any game in the series).

    Just want to mention that violence isn't really that objective a criteria.

  191. Freeciv, the free Civ clone.. by Quazion · · Score: 1

    http://www.freeciv.org/

    its free, its civ, its addictive...

    And it learned me a lot about how humans advanced tru time...

    And yes it has voilence in the form of war, but also diplomatic features, you can communicate to win and setting blood war off and space race as a winning goal will force users to go for science instead of war...

    Quazion.

  192. Lego Mindstorms by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Although not entirely software, I think it still qualifies. Plus you can make robots. Everyone loves robots?

  193. spelling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Jolyon wrote:
    " bla bla bla CENTRE bla bla "...
    learn to spell, you british twittish!

  194. Rocky's Boots! by trefoil · · Score: 1

    Try the old appleII game called "Rocky's Boots" yes.. I was a geek child, but my dad put me infront of that game (GUI based and it teaches logic, with some fun puzzles) and it sure payed off when I was taking discrete structures in college.. ;]

  195. Oregon Trail by trefoil · · Score: 1

    While I'm on this trip remembering the AppleII and all, Oregon Trail was another good one. RPG type game about hitting the trail out to Oregon. Simple Graphics, simple text, easy for a child to learn and pretty entertaining.. heh

    1. Re:Oregon Trail by Don+Keehotay · · Score: 1

      I never played Oregon Trail, but my nephew summed it up: "You meet interesting people, then watch them die." Accurate?

      --
      U.S. Democracy: born 7/4/1776, died 12/12/2000 R.I.P.
  196. Correlation != Causality by Christopher+Whitt · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Tsk, tsk! Repeat to yourself ten times:

    Correlation does not indicate causality!


    High School kids (It may have been Jr High) that were on a Chess team "The Raging Rooks" Did better on tests and got better grades than average


    Could it just be that smart kids like chess more than average kids?

    All the same I think that board games would be great to include in the list. If chess fits the bill, then be sure to look at Go. I personally like games like Risk and Axis&Allies.

    Christopher
    1. Re:Correlation != Causality by leviramsey · · Score: 1
      I personally like games like Risk and Axis & Allies


      I've been in the planning stages for a while now on Fora, a GPL clone of A&A...

    2. Re:Correlation != Causality by Unknown+Bovine+Group · · Score: 1
      Correlation does not indicate causality!


      Exactly what I was thinking. Other things the study could have concluded:

      Knowledge of chess causes lunch money to be stolen.
      Hot chicks fear chess boards (since dammit, none of them would date any members)
      Chess causes acne.

      --
      m00.
    3. Re:Correlation != Causality by slick_rick · · Score: 1
      I've been in the planning stages for a while now on Fora, a GPL clone of A&A...
      Why would you post something like that and not leave interested developers such as myself a way to contact you?
      --
      apt-get install redhat please god - Me (take it easy, I love Debian)
  197. Myst DOES have violence in it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If I remember right, Myst does have violence in it. There are various clues like torture equipment, mangled body parts in a trunk, etc, which give you clues hinting at the evil side of one of the brothers. You don't see the violence occur, but you know what happened.

    I guess it depends on how much violence you are willing to accept, and what constitutes "violence."

  198. games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    try the neverhood or myst

  199. Jones in the Fast Lane by Torodung · · Score: 1

    There's a Sierra title out there called "Jones in the Fast Lane!" It's very old, probably have to get it on an abandonware site and ask Sierra's permission to use it. It's a "game of Life" for multiple players where you work your way up from "Burger Hut" jobs to highly skilled jobs which require an education in an effort to become highly successful and have all sorts of cool stuff (and win, of course.) It also has a great sense of humour which makes it highly addictive and fun. That one is PERFECT!

  200. Any LucasArts adventure game... by _egg · · Score: 1

    I recommend Grim Fandango and The Secret of Monkey Island.

  201. Drugwar by loosenut · · Score: 1

    A classic text-based game of drug dealing. The police-dealer shootouts are non-graphic, so you could say that it doesn't count as violence. Think of the lessons that could be learned. The kids could learn to appreciate the free market, as well as the value of a good ol' AK-47. And they would see that dealing drugs is really not a very profitable career (unless you deal herion).

  202. Dopewars! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I guess that dopewars would be considered violent...

    You could get the source, and change that bit...

    It's like monopoly for gangsters!

  203. Myst will work well by shmigget · · Score: 1

    Ditto to all others who suggested Myst. It's completely non-violent, and the original version will run on old systems (Mac or PC) and still looks stunning. If you have access to new machines and sense that the children will crave more eye candy and full 3D immersion, RealMYST will fit the bill nicely.

  204. Risk = Evil by drodver · · Score: 1

    Risk is truely evil given form! In college a couple of times we got a game going... and going.... and going. One went so long people were subing in and out, I don't think we ever got done before 2 am.

  205. how about... by two_socks · · Score: 1

    monopoly

    --
    I can't help it - I'm a 19D.
  206. Microsoft Visual Studio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Make them Microsoft coders. They don't need and literacy, and they're already criminals.

  207. Treasure Island??????? by whosit · · Score: 1

    I'm not sure if it's ported to PC's, but there was a great game the TI-80(???? or was it the Commodore 64 - now I know I'm dating myself). It was called Treasure Island. Straight text game no visuals but great for teaching creativity.

    There is a cave ahead.

    Go into the cave.

    You are in the cave.

    What do I see?

    You see nothing.

    Why?

    Because it's dark.

    Light a torch.

  208. Non Violent Games by Frad+Haskins · · Score: 1

    What about Abe's Oddyssee, and Loderunner?

    --
    This is a sample sig. Press F1 to personalize.
  209. 'Get off my land! Varmint!' by Radical+Rad · · Score: 1

    I'm guessing Redneck Rampage with the Cuss pack installed wouldn't fly?

  210. the incredible machine??? by theDEFT · · Score: 0

    bad idea. now they're going to build something and break out.

  211. How about by HMarieY · · Score: 1

    the Lost Mind of Dr. Brain, as well as the others in the series. I have used therse in the Special Ed. classroom and kids of all age and literacy levels love playing them (including my huisband and myself.:) Pandora's Box is a great puzzle based game. Also the Math Blaster and Reading Blaster games.

    If you have internet access on location, which I doubt, the Big Idea website (www.bigidea.com) has some great educational Flash games that are highly addictive and teach physics etc. - Spaced Penguin and Ship Lander are great on this site.

  212. Pong! by MartinB · · Score: 1
    --

    The only thing you can accurately describe as "Scotch" is a sticky tape made by 3M. And it's

  213. Sid Meier's Civilization? by Ssolstice · · Score: 1

    While it does have the principle of warfare in it, the "battles" are about as violent as Sesame Street. It teaches organization, cooperation (especially when networked), and long-term planning. Sounds like something right up your alley.

  214. Sort of a game... by lancew · · Score: 1

    What about online fantasy sports leagues? There are several available, most of which are free. It has subject matter that would appeal to teens, but also would help them with doing reading, research, understanding statistics, math, etc.

    There are also non-sports genres of this type of game/simulation. I play one called Hollywood Stock Exchange (www.hsx.com) that is a very realistic simulation of stock exchange, using movies and movie stars as commodities. There is also a music version of the game at the same site.

    Most of these games allow players to set up teams and/or leagues to compete.

    my other .sig is funny

  215. Lavamind Games by jaygittings · · Score: 1

    I know this is a bit late, but for anyone reading this far down the list, I would highly recommend the suite of economic games from Lavamind. Gazillionaire and Zapitalism were a blast and although I haven't played Profitania, it sounds as if it has the same winning ingredients. Each of the games has you trading commodities, a.k.a. MULE, and encountering situations that will keep the game interesting and challenging for quite some time. I would also like to add that it has some of the most challenging computer opponents around. Another great game comes from Stardock.com, The Corporate Machine. The Corporate Machine is another non-violent business sim game with amazing replay value and lots of add-ons. All of these games have a zero violence quotient and teach economics and fiscal strategy (and are cutthroat and engaging at the same time).

  216. All of the Humongous Entertainment games... by gmezero · · Score: 1

    I've yet to be disapointed with any of these games, and they are non-violent as well as fun for kids (mine currently are 4, 8, & 10 and all of them enjoy the games better than any other kids games we've bought)... they're also fun for adults as well. Most of them have a very minimal reading requirement, and most can be played by someone who can't read if they have an older child there to play with them who can read.

    Check out their software at Humongus.com.

    My personal favorites are the SpyFox series (some reading/logic skills required) and the Knowledge Bug series (no reading required at all, just silly fun).

    Good luck!

  217. Unfortunateley by docstrange · · Score: 1

    They can't play segas Typing Of The Dead As the screenshots show, it is possible for a game to be very entertaining while teaching a important skill at the same time. Juvenile delinquents would thrive on this sort of stuff.

    --
    Remember that you are unique, just like everybody else.
  218. info: the nature of learning by LifesABeach · · Score: 1



    Have you asked the students, and teaching staff what would be good? Maybe they could create their own.

  219. Day of the Tentacle by Gog · · Score: 1

    Now THAT was twisted and funny !

  220. Glider by valenti · · Score: 1

    I'm not sure what educational value it has, but for non-violent we really love Glider. It's from Cassidy&Green, started out as a Mac program, but there is a windows version.

    You control a paper airplane flying thru a house, catching lift from hot air ducts, candles, etc.

  221. Some Oldies And Goodies by Manitcor · · Score: 1

    Zork Series (for those who can read)
    Tetris
    Dr. Mario (or Some variant)
    BustAMove/Super BustAmove

    --
    "Don't mess with him, he taunts the happy fun ball."
  222. good instructive games by budalite · · Score: 1

    1. Sierra puts out (& have put out) a bunch of stuff that involve creative thought. 'The Secret Island of Dr. Brain', 'The incredible machine'(!), plus the others already mentioned.
    2. Turn them on to html. Buy any old HTML 4 book w/CD. Use the CD repeatedly. Linux books w/CD usually have an Apache site already set up with the Caldera and Red Hat versions. Building a web site is relatively simple and can give them a chance to strut their stuff, literally. If you are running MicroSoft, the web site software (Option pack 4) is FREE, at you-know-where. If you are using Unix/Linux, the Apache web server software is FREE, too. So is the java stuff at Sun for javaServerPages (JSP). (Free there, too.) Allaire/Macromedia has a FREE JavaServerPages server (with no expiration date for a developer version) at . Have fun!

  223. hangman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    approrpiate for the setting

  224. NOT Oregon Trail by ElDuque · · Score: 1

    Well all of you who remember playing Oregon Trail seem to not remember that the whole point of the game was to go hunting as much as possible. The ground was littered with squirrels and rabbits before I would return to the wagon and move but one game tick so it would let me hunt again.

    Oregon Trail:
    "You have killed 5400 pounds of meat, but can only carry 200 back."

    Not a good one for these kids.

  225. Linux. by dkoyanagi · · Score: 1

    A lot of good games have been suggested. However, you might want to try leaving a few of the PCs blank. Get some Linux CDs and let the kids have at it. Let them install and configure the PCs themselves and let them simply explore or develop their own games. Place restrictions on the types of games they can develop if you have to. You mentioned low literacy rates. Perhaps this will give them an incentive to improve their reading ability. It will help develop their technical and analytical skills and it will give them an alternative to just racking up high scores.

  226. The Sims yes, Myst no... by TheMCP · · Score: 1
    The Sims seems like it might be an excellent choice - it requires some literacy (enough to read the balloons with the actions in them, and item names like "dishwasher") but not much (no long text anywhere vital), it's not a violent game (the sims have to get along or they'll avoid each other), and the whole point is that it shows that making friends, holding down a job, and improving yourself in ways which reflect on your work all contribute directly to better income and better lifestyle. (Not to mention that reading, particularly about cooking, tends to prevent your sims from getting accidentally killed...)

    The Myst series, on the other hand, much as I love it, does have some violence in it, both implied and direct. If you don't believe me, you really must not have explored the many ways you can die in Riven. It's not common, many players won't encounter it... but it's there.

  227. yet another suggestion... by scriptQ · · Score: 1

    How about Bolo Adventures? The objective is to get Bolo out of the "room" by manipulating objects in the room with each level getting progressively more intricate. It's a dos based game and rather small if I remember correctly.. it's been a rather long time since I played it. Here's a link to the site where you can download it:

    http://www.soleau.com/dosgame.html

  228. classic games! by strombrg · · Score: 1
    Go. Chess. Backgammon.

    My personal pick is Go. It's Soooo deep.

    You can get go client software for just about any common platform, some are in java too. So you can play on servers against other humans, and you can play against AI programs (which most people can beat easily after playing a few years because go is just too deep for a computer to play well - despite a $1 million reward for a truly good go AI).

    There have been studies on the effects of go on the brain. Apparently it has developmental benefits in children similar to studying music. It supposedly also helps with dementia.

  229. Flight Simulator by The+Wing+Lover · · Score: 1

    Might I respectfully suggest one of the great General Aviation flight sims that are available (MS Flight Simulator 2000, Fly!, Pro Pilot, etc.)

    While a lot of people may play it just to look at the scenery, or "hyuk, hyuk, let's see what happens if I crash this plane on purpose!", it might also spark a healthy interest in aviation for a few of these kids, and give them a goal to work towards.

    I've been flying (real) planes for a couple of years now, and remain grateful to Flight Simulators for helping to foster my interest in aviation.

    --

    - In Capitalist America, law violates YOU!

  230. I'm an evil bastard, aren't I? by uchian · · Score: 1

    Teach em perl and lisp. They can't rejoin society until they can look at the obfuscation competition winning entries and say what they do at a single glance :-)

  231. old DOS Bolo game by An+ominous+Cow+art · · Score: 1

    http://www.soleau.com/dosgame.html

    I used to play the Bolo games; they were addictive problem-solving games. Lots of fun and very challenging.

  232. ggames by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sim City, Black and White .........
    GT Auto [ maybe not at juvenile facility :) ]

  233. Oregon Trail has some violence by bigwig10001 · · Score: 1

    I liked Oregon Trail a lot back in "the day." But it fails the no violence requirement. Most of the game was cool stuff like choosing trails, fording streams, and fixing busted wagon wheels. Genuine fun.

    But Oregon Trail had a darker side. You could choose to go a-hunting to get meat for your family. You would spend all day searching for game, then blasting it.

    This was also cool, but way more educational than it sounds. The chance of finding game would depend on the weather. You could only haul 100 lbs of meat back, so a deer and a bear got you the same amount. Bullets cost quite a bit, so you had to decide whether or not it was worth it to take a shot at a rabbit for only 5 or 10 lbs of meat. Hunting was pretty hard, and you could feel what it was like to go back to those hungry mouths at camp empty-handed.

    I liked this game a lot, but I doubt that the state would find the "glorification" of violence and "cruelty" to animals appropriate for the "rehabilitation" of "amoral superpredators" like those you find in juvie hall.

  234. Don't forget Adventure Games ! by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 2
    Classics such as:

    • Zork
    • Monkey Island series
    • Grim Fandago
    • 7th Guest
    • Myst


    were all mentally stimulating and challenging, along with being fun.
  235. Glider by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This was a black & white game for the original Macintosh, but it has been updated and is now in full color and comes with a utility that lets the user create their own houses. Basically you fly a paper airplane through a house, avoiding obstacles and shooting rubber bands at balloons. Very addictive and totally nonviolent. Mac only from Casady & Green

  236. Flight simulators..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How about flight simulators ?

    Search And Rescue "changes the pace of recent sterotypical game themes and aims to create a plot based on positive goals such as saving victims in varying situations of distress. "

    Flight Gear is also cool and has binaries for both linux and win32.

    There is also Fly II.

    And of course, there is also Microsoft's flight simulator product.

  237. Such a short list! by gribbly · · Score: 1

    Wow, I'm a little bit alarmed that so far the list seems to consist of:

    Lemmings
    Sim-*
    The Sims

    How strict is this no violence policy? I mean obviously "Soldier of Fortune" and "Kingpin" are out, but what about:

    Age of Empires
    Civ series
    StarCraft

    There's lots of sports games (FIFA), driving games, flight-sims, etc. that aren't violent.

    There's also:

    ThemePark World
    Rollercoaster Tycoon (many variants of both I think)

    You don't specify platform, but I guess PC. If you're on a console you've got a lot more options... as well as the sports/driving games there's heaps of cutesy-but-brain-bending puzzle games amongst the fighting/blowing stuff up/organ muching zombie games.

    The GameCube can be relied upon to feature non-violent content (Pikmin looks intriguing).

    --
    maybe
  238. Boring Educational Software by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 2

    The trouble with what you are asking for is that for a game to be interesting there must be an objective. For the objective to be meaningful there must be problems to overcome.

    Violence is a part of life, defining it is tough, artificially removing it is just dumb. You need clarification from the people in power. Do you want games with NO violence, or games which encourage problem solving without violence?

    As one person pointed out, you can smash cities in Sim City. Big deal. We've all done it. We're not all axe-murderers. The problem you're going to come up against, in my opinion, is not the person playing the games, nor the social workers laying down the law as to what is 'constructive' or 'violent', but the people with the I.T. budget who think they know anything about what the correctional institution is doing.

    Get the O.K. from your Boss to call in the people making the decisions. Otherwise you'll take the fall for some guy committing suicide because his city crumbled. Get each and every game 'rubberstamped' and be sure to point out to them how the game can be abused.

    If you want to make a difference in what kind of software these people are exposed to, you won't be able to do it from the tech department... at least not without some help.

  239. All games can be violent by Vicegrip · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Nothing will stop people who wish to be cruel to one another from doing so.

    Your goal is to motivate them to acquire skills and to learn that their abilities can extend far beyond that which they currently perceive them to.

    I recommend that you avoid any games that involve the direct manipulation of human avatars in any form. Concentrate on activities that require logical decision making.

    To be honest, I'm not sure at all if games are a solution here. I postulate that all games cater to a certain extent to our desire to escape our surroundings (much like movie watching does) and that therefore its quite possible that you are not solving the problem but creating a new one.

    Still... its not a bad idea... just make sure that gaming is only part of what you do.

    --
    Do not spread "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0" over the internet, thank you.
  240. Dr. Brain by dozing · · Score: 1

    My family and I used to spend hours playing the "Dr. Brain" games.

    --
    Dozings.com -- Its kinda funny... If you're as crazy as me.
  241. Well intentioned iditots are still idiots by demo9orgon · · Score: 1
    How many people think TV in the classroom is a good thing? I challenge you, reader, to view a computer as an interactive TV, and divorce yourself, even for a moment, from the love and enjoyment you may feel at your mad skillz with one. Using that association is a good definition of how and when we should roll out a computer in order to demonstrate a concept, illuminate an idea, or just be entertained. Because what we do invloves learning on comptuers (meta-languages, Networking, Data-Storage/retrieval, Games) we readily forget the true source of human learning. Each other, ourselves, and buttloads of complex interactions.

    As someone who codes/admin's for a living I know (firsthand) that computers are a panacea to NOTHING. They don't teach our kids. They frustrate teachers, and only complicate the problem of forcing creative minds to do something difficult and less entertaining. Like learning something. Yeah, it's not fun. It sucks. But then every damn thing we do that means anything is tough. If that's too much of a thought to bear, then obviously it's a personal problem.

    Like the old adage goes, "Everything I've learned, I learned from someone else", and that's what's important. And what I've learned from watching K-12 admins, teachers, and kids has taught me that computers have a very limited (extremely limited) role to play in education at the K-12 level; a role that's almost equivalent to TV use. The importance of computers to education for young children is extremely overplayed to the benefit of nearly everyone but the children and the teachers, so if you don't find a solution to the problem of good learning software it's because you're ignoring the best learning device (wetware) the planet has to offer...it's that idealistic, incredibly underpaid teacher who has to do without and somehow perform a minor miracle in this age of micro-burst attention spans in children(conditioned reflex to all those extravagant TV ads that peddle chinese plastic and wonder to the young in this country).

    BTW...this isn't a Luddite point of view. It's just so damn obvious that only people who are in love with the concept of schools (fat cats and vendors making money selling firewater to the natives) sitting children down in classrooms full of computers and somehow letting the comptuers do something that is uniquely human.

    Maybe we should get some lucky bastard to write up a socially acceptable study to determine the level of feral behavior a child would have if everything they learned came from a computer. That would be a good read. Maybe we could roll a little "operant conditioning" in there too. You know, force the little buggers to figure out the right sequence of actions they would need to perform correctly in order to get a caffine drink, or a piece of candy. Failure could result in a mild electric shock. Hey, now that would be progress, eh? We love you B.F. Skinner, and a big shout out to P.T. Barnum, who is to Human Nature, what Albert Einstien is to Physics.

    --
    Every new form of media has it's own Requirimento
    1. Re:Well intentioned iditots are still idiots by Squeeze+Truck · · Score: 2

      I have to disagree. I agree that television is for idiots, but I don't see the similarity between TV and computers aside from the fact that they both feature cathode ray tubes.

      IMHO, a good computer simulation game is better than even an average book. Simulation games are more intellectually stimulating and far more social. TV and reading are passive. Simulation games require strategy and problem-solving skills.

      --

      "Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao

    2. Re:Well intentioned iditots are still idiots by demo9orgon · · Score: 1
      Thank you for the comment, I couldn't believe I had _karma_ and had to find out why.

      I'm a big fan of RTS games. My son and I play them all the time. But they're dubious "edutainment", esp. when you consider all the killing and great explosions. No parent/school are going to permit Starcraft as an educational tool. As a parent I'm allowed to use it as such, but I wouldn't expect an institution to use it in such a way (unless it's the Army--And they have their own flavor, I just can't remember its name).

      From this reply, I can only hope you're not very close to the system...or you're just in love with the idea of kids learning something from a computer that they somehow can't get from another person. Most people who think computers belong in school don't have to actually prove that computers in school do something worthwhile. When I see something like proof, then I'll change my tune. Until that time, I'd like to see the proven methods of study win out over enthusiastic experimentation with taxpayer dollars which only seem to give kidiots license to shape themselves into keyboard punks...a punk is someone who does stupid willful acts of vandalism and thuggery because they can. Hand a little kid a gun and they'll shoot someone. Hand them a computer and they'll vandalize and mug networks. A computer is a tool. Like a weapon, it needs to be used wisely, and I wouldn't mind seeing fewer guns in the hands of kids, and fewer networks too.

      I would challenge anyone to produce something like real facts/figures that prove computers do anything special in school (other than cost buttloads of money and add another layer of control complexity). From personal experience in the k-12 sector (as a parent and someone who help admin and had to listen to all the whining/bitching that k-12 network admins do) I know I'm standing at a point of reality. The problem with this point of view is that it doesn't line the pockets of fat-cat vendors and implementers who couldn't care less if a teacher makes a living, or if kids actually benefit from computers.

      I didn't have access to one, and I bootstrapped myself, did college to learn data structures and some meta-languages, and I think I'm better off for not having had that distraction while I was learning the tools for self-study during the first 12 years of institutionalized violence, where there's a remarkably wide path of problems which are only complicated by admin-bots who loose their minds trying to man the walls (esp. the M$ ones which are built out of remarklably easy to defeat substance) against their student population.

      Here's deal...do the ends justify the means? Does computer literacy have to be institutionalized when the majority of the population owns some form of general purpose/entertainment computing device? I think the answer is no. If there were more neighborhood organizations that could redistribute computers to family's, instead of just having old boxen dropped on the schools steps where they're discarded, every family in a school district could have enough computer to do something with (get online, setup a bbs, play games, whatever) and there wouldn't be all these issues invovling the school. The school computers would be for administration use(teachers armed with StarOffice and a laser printer can make homework and organizational miracles happen), and the kids would be learning on their own time, at their own pace, and discovering things without our love (yes, the joy of seeing a computer conquer yet another frontier) of computers wasting a student's time with their teacher or taxpayer dollars.

      Pitch a better plan with some guaranteed beneficial result. I dare you. :-D

      --
      Every new form of media has it's own Requirimento
  242. Black & White by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In "be a good little cow" mode.

  243. Global Thermonuclear War by seeded · · Score: 1

    how about a nice game of chess?

    --
    Om Mani Padme Hum
  244. Set by Brighten · · Score: 2

    It's not a computer game, but the card game Set would be great. It's completely visual, so literacy is not a problem; it's easy to learn; it's fast-paced and exciting; and there are a lot of interesting math problems and puzzles associated with it.

  245. Quake 3? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    /set r_picmip 5
    /set cg_drawblood 0
    /set cg_gibbs 0

    Now its just a blurry game of tag.
    Great for hand eye coordintation.

  246. Look through the games at by just_readin' · · Score: 1

    [http://www.familygames.com/], especially
    [http://www.familygames.com/freelane.html].

  247. Bridge Builder by KLR8 · · Score: 1
  248. Games for classes by CmdrPinkTaco · · Score: 1

    Sim Family for Home Ec
    Carmageddeon for Drivers Ed sim (alternate: Crazy Taxi)
    Summer Games 2000 for PE (that game sucked so bad they will want to actually go outside and play real sports)
    Black and White for theology
    BattleChess for the Chess club

    --
    Please give your mod points to others, Im at the cap. They will appreciate it more
    1. Re:Games for classes by notsoanonymouscoward · · Score: 1

      B&W? I don't recall that being a non violent game. And it would develop superiority complexes as well.

      --
      I ate my sig.
    2. Re:Games for classes by CmdrPinkTaco · · Score: 1

      It doesn't really teach theology in the sense of understanding God and religion so much as it teaches you how to BE god.

      --
      Please give your mod points to others, Im at the cap. They will appreciate it more
  249. Logical Journey of the Zoombinis by namespan · · Score: 2

    There's a
    review here of the "Logical Journey of the Zoombinis", which is supposed to be one of the better puzzle games out there. Of course, it's created for 8-12 year olds, but depending on the developmental level of your charges, it might still be appropriate.

    --
    Libertarianism is rich wolves and poor sheep playing gambler's ruin for dinner.
  250. Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Am I the only one who thinks this is a bad
    idea?


    Let's see, we have some kids with dysfunctional
    social skills, probably due to neglect and
    abuse. I know! Lets plop them in front of a
    monitor and let them ignore each other
    until they are old enough to get out of here!
    And everyone knows computer make yoo smart!

  251. D.R.O.D!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Dangerous Rooms of Death is a truly amazing thinking-puzzle game which manages to look like a violent hack-n-slash game. Kids get interested when they see all of the monsters & swords, and don't realize right away how much you have to stop & think to do well. I think it's actually much less violent than Lemmings



    It's shareware, but I don't believe it's currently actually sold anywhere, so the author has stated he doesn't mind if you download the full registered version from sites like this.

  252. Sports games by zaf · · Score: 2

    Of course, there are also sports games, which at least aren't about killing people. Not much educational value, but they do keep a lot of people interested.

  253. Suggestions for games by fnurb · · Score: 1

    Many of these are no longer published, but are still available for order online. All are available for Windows and Mac.

    The Logical Journey of the Zoombinies. (Broderbund) Best of the bunch. Terrific job of teaching logic, but so much fun the kids don't realize they are learning. Excellent production values (narration, sound, music, animation). Simple interface. lends itself to cooperative problem-solving (a bunch of kids around one monitor). Like a non-violent Lemmings with a twist. Came out in a teacher's kit as well as a retail version.

    Math Heads. (Theatrix Interactive) Hip, music-video-style quiz-show-cum-math program.

    Julliard Music Adventure. (Theatrix Interactive) Original, uses simplified sequencer to solve musical puzzles (and incidentally teach about rhythm, melody and chords) in an adventure-game wrapping.

    Widget Workshop (Maxis). Wonderful. Virtual Rube-Goldberg experiments but with organic components and analog meters added. Sort of like Incredible Machines but with real scientific value.

    David Macauley's The Way Things Work (Houghton Mifflin). Kids love to play around and learn about things. The most recent versions include clever games that teach about physics principles.

    Lego Mindstorms. 'nuff said. Their Mars Exploration kit, among others.

    Brenda Laurel's Purple Moon games, especially the Rockett series which deals realistically with social problems among adolescents, and the Secret Paths series. Wonderful multi-cultural storytelling for girls - and boys. Unfortunately, Purple Moon was bought out by Mattel.

    There is a dearth of good socially-responsible interactive entertainment out there. Some of us are working to change that, but it's a long, hard road. Hope this helps in the meantime.

    --


    Flout 'em and scout 'em,
    and scout 'em and flout 'em;
    Thought is free. - Shakespeare [The Tempest]
  254. A serious suggestion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most games from Maxis probably qualify, as likely would most 'building' games.

    Sim City: Build a city, try to keep it from exploding.

    Civilization II (and soon, III): Its -kind- of violent, but in the same way checkers or chess is violent. It also has the bonus of being relatively inexpensive and multiplayer.

    I'd also go with Puzzle games, like Tetris and Bejeweled.

  255. /agree by nahdude812 · · Score: 2

    It seems farily obvious that the study established a correlation between the two things, chess playing, and test scores, however, that does not establish a causal relationship. Playing chess, under that statement, does not provedly improve one's capacity to take tests. Rather it's likely that high test scores, and an affinity toward chess are derived from the same root cause... higher intelligence. Those who really enjoy chess do so because they love wrapping their mind around looking several moves into the future, and manipulating their opponent into things while avoiding being manipulated themselves. Individuals with IQ's of 8 can't do this, so chess is simply frustrating.

  256. Starcraft by macdaddy · · Score: 2

    Seriously. Starcraft really does make you think. You have to plan your attacks and defenses according to your opponent. Can I send 6 tanks in against 24 marines with stimpaks? It also is a little violent. Not in the sense that most people think of when they picture a violent game, but in the sense that you do kill beings. My $.02.

  257. I recommend my own game by puz · · Score: 1

    I wrote a game called SNUG, which is a puzzle of fitting random shapes into a box. There is no time limit to encourage deep thinking. This game improves children's spatial visualization skills. I received emails from teachers asking if they could use it in their schools. The answer is yes, because it's freeware. If you want to download it, here is where I put it: http://www.puz.com/sw/freeware/page3.htm

    --
    Download Mazes and Puzzles from www.puz.com
  258. SEGA's Sonic games by lightspawn · · Score: 1
    sure, the games have enemies, but the amazing non-violent premise of the games is that helpless animals are trapped in the robotic contraptions and by destroying the machines you can free the animals.


    I know a 12 year old girl who can't even tolerate cartoon violence, much less fighting games, and Sonic's her favorite character in the whole world. Every one of these games is a labor of love.


    You can get a new Dreamcast with Sonic Adventure, a memory card and another game that has the word Sonic in the title but doesn't really count for $100 new. Various PC Sonic games (CD , Sonic and Knuckles collection etc) Can be found in bargain bins for $5-$20.

  259. non-violent educational... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ChicagoMUSE...

    dunno if it still exists...but develops reading/typing/geography/small-time coding skills...

    Basically a text-based VR...

    also...those old 'choose your own adventure' text based games =)
    just read something on them here a while back...

    --Huck

  260. Try Racing, Flying, or Construction games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you have students with poor literacy levels, You Don't Know Jack is good, as it consists of someone reading the question on the screen. The problem is that children might not be able to answer the questions.

    If you have a Nintendo 64 for the kids, I would suggest Mario 64 and Harvest Moon, two games you can get for cheap. Kids likely experience more violence from Pokemon.

    Basically, most any Racing, Flying, or Construction game will probably be a good idea. You still might want to preview the instruction manual first, to see if it meets with your standards.

  261. Trade & money games (Railroad TycoonII) by DunbarTheInept · · Score: 2
    Railroad Tycoon II, and any of the similar genre of make-money-on-trade-routes games might be good. About the only 'violent' stuff in that game is that sometimes trains crash, and that's not directly under player control anyway. (You can't click a "make the train crash now" button, while in Sim City, there's the "make disaster happen now" menu.)

    One good thing about RRT2 is that it has a scenario editor, so if you need to make an easier game for younger kids, or promote a specific style of play, you can set up scenarios for that, and edit the map as you see fit.

    --

    Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.

  262. Wanderer by Amazing+Quantum+Man · · Score: 1

    Steve Shipway's old Wanderer game involved some serious problem solving. There is some minor violence, as you need to drop a rock or an arrow ontop of some monsters to keep them from eating you.

    But most of the game is using logic to figure out how to go through the maze.

    --
    Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
  263. Lethal Injection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I would try either lethal injection or the gas chamber.

  264. Look at www.theunderdogs.org by Yragael · · Score: 1

    It holds a bunch of old and free games running on PC.

  265. Railroad Tycoon II ! by jlusk4 · · Score: 1

    My current obsession. The problem-solving part is untangling routing messes. Doesn't require too much literacy, but does require the ability to recognize numbers (I need $285K to put this rail down and I've only got $240K; plus I'll need to spend $50K on an engine.) And it's business-oriented (if you consider robber barons to be business-oriented), so you can get 'em into that capitalist/happy-contributor-to-society mindset.

    John.

  266. Lemmings isn't violent? by SunCrushr · · Score: 0

    Hit the nuke button. Watch the lemmings all explode. You even see little Lemming pieces in the air. Not violent at all, no?

  267. Sodaplay.com - little web physical simulation by mattman · · Score: 1

    Check out www.sodaplay.com for a cool little physical simulation game.

    --
    Ideas in this comment are smarter than they appear.
  268. Pit Droids by 4eak · · Score: 1

    Another suggestion. Pit Droids by the now defunct Lucas Learning. This was a great puzzle game. Playable by and challenging to any age or intellect. A kid could play it, and an intelligent adult could be challenged by it. The only violence occurrs when your droids are marched under a hazardous ob-stackle

    --
    --Damn! We're in a tight spot!
  269. Independent Developers by robbway · · Score: 2
    Try two self-proclaimed non-violence puzzle places:

    Soleau Software and Everett Kaser Games. Soleau has many platform-style puzzlers of the Sokoban and Boulderdash varieties. Kaser also has these, but the best are Sherlock and Honeycomb Hotel. These last two games are like logic word games ("Mr. Johnson likes apples", only completely graphic (picture of a man over a picture of an apple). They teach deduction and observation.

    Best of all, they're free to try, and cheap to buy.

  270. My offering. by netfunk · · Score: 1

    I don't know if this would qualify as interesting enough, or work with true illiterates (that is, a person that can't read thing one) but there's always TurtleGraphics.

    My improved version of LOGO is here, and it's free (GPL). Again, the literacy thing can be an obstacle, but there's no reason an early elementary schooler can't use it, so you don't have to be at the Shakespearian level to try it.

    At any rate, it might be a nice change of pace if you have even one person that can benefit from it.

    --ryan.(icculus@SPAMISEVILclutteredmind.org)

    --
    Don't say, "don't quote me," because if no one quotes you, you probably haven't said a thing worth saying.
  271. No! Bad Idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do you really want the kids learning and enjoying this:Killing Sims?

  272. MK1 by Greenisus · · Score: 1

    Give them the SNES version of MK1. Maybe the sweat will make them think they should work hard to be cool like Sub Zero.

  273. Best sellers of "all time"? by uptownguy · · Score: 1

    When, in fact, some of the top selling games of ALL TIME have been those with the least violence. Myst was #1 for something like 2 years, even though DOOM, Quake, and others came and went. Then Roller Coaster Tycoon came around, and it camped out on the top of the list for quite some time.

    At the risk of dating myself, games like PacMan, Frogger and Tetris are among the top selling games of "all time" if you want to look at market share/popularity at the time.

    By the way - PLEASE continue to develop your game. We need more Mystish games. Don't let numbers discourage you! Where would we be if Linus looked at the market share of MS/Novell (10 years ago), and said, "Screw it - whats the point? It'll never be that widely used."

    Ditto, ditto, ditto. Just because there is a dirth of non-violent games now doesn't mean the trend couldn't be changed by just one or two killer games. Heck, with how derivitive everything is lately, if you just make one good one, there will be 50 other people jumping on the new "non-violent game" bandwagon. Back before Linus, everyone was saying, "Open source? Bah!" (Now its just most people saying it...)

    Do what you love. If you do it well, success will follow!

    --


    I would have to say that explosives are the most abused technology in all of history.
  274. flight sims... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The civilian kind (without guns). Nothing is quite as challenging as trying to get from LA to San Francisco and land in clouds (so you can't see).

  275. Creative Games by Ronid · · Score: 1

    Try games like the 7th gate or the 11th hr

    1. Re:Creative Games by Squeeze+Truck · · Score: 2

      7th Guest.

      That game had some wicked puzzles.

      --

      "Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao

  276. How about ANY version of Civ? by Rimbo · · Score: 2

    It doesn't even have to be multi-player Civ. Even single-player Civ is an extraordinarily great game for teaching anthropology, history, and political science. More importantly, I think a lot of kids get into trouble because they feel powerless against society. I think that Civ, by showing how technology, sociology, politics, and economics relate to each other, how they support each other, and how they create power for people and nations, can give these kids a better understanding of the world and how they can be empowered within it.

  277. Helley Project by Sxooter · · Score: 1

    Anybody else remember "The Halley Project" for the Amiga? That was an excellent learning game. You flew around the solar system in a little space ship in missions where you'd do things like "land on a moon with an atmosphere".

    Taught you how to navigate, and you had to go to the encyclopedia to look stuff up to know where to fly.

    Very cool old game.

    --

    --- It is not the things we do which we regret the most, but the things which we don't do.
  278. Wild Tangent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Has some board games that you can download and install on pcs for free. There is some advertising, so I'm not sure how that would impact it, but they have reversi and some other "classic" board games.

  279. Sid Meier, Sim games, Apogee, etc. by Wonko42 · · Score: 2
    Civilization, Civ2, Alpha Centauri, Sim City, The Sims, SimAnt (if you can find it). All are good, mostly nonviolent, brain-stimulating games.

    You might also want to look at the old Apogee/3D-Realms games, which you can download here. Many of them are nonviolent, and they tend to enhance problem solving skills to some extent -- especially Math Rescue and Word Rescue.

  280. Monkey Island! by Lurker_2k · · Score: 1

    Not sure if it's been suggested already but try the Monkey Island series. There is some animated violence but it's along the slapstick variety and you may be able to get approval. The series is a laugh riot. Well worth the time

  281. Re: LOST Vikings, Great thinking game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The game's called Lost Vikings by InterPlay. Some of the levels may be a bit ambitious for younger players, but it should keep the kids busy for a while (it took me forever to beat the game =) There's also a sequel...

  282. computer games and board games by r · · Score: 2
    given your constraints i would suggest games that abstract a bit from their domain. take a look especially at strategy and simulation games - since they involve just the right amount of abstract conflict, and also teach how to think and plan for the future.


    some that come to mind immediately:

    • simcity, simearth, simlife, etc. - very intuitive simulations of very complex systems. great fun.
    • civilization - puts you in charge of the conquest of the known world. one of the best games in history. *
    • ms flight simulator - just a relaxing flight sim that takes considerable skill to master. gorgeous graphics.
    • alpha centauri - strategic game of starting a new civilization on a new planet. *

    * for games with an asterisk: i don't know how well those fit your constraints - they involve conflict and abstract warfare, but no violence on individuals.


    while we're at it, i'd also recommend getting some complex board games, since in addition to working on problem solving and thinking, they also require social interaction. some examples that come to mind:

    • settlers of katan - game of building the largest settlement on an empty island. requires a lot of friendly competitive cooperation, highly recommended.
    • history of the world - conquest of the world, again. :) emphasizes long-term planning in face of uncertainty. *
    • diplomacy - different kind of conquest of the world, one that requires an incredible lot of forming alliances, scheming, and planning.

    hope this helps!
    --

    My other car is a cons.

  283. curbing outside violence with online violence by psychalgia · · Score: 1

    im a tempremental, nervous person. I punch things when I'm angry. I'm not nearly as angry when I have a healthy dose of starcraft, counterstrike, or even better, outdoor paintball (in real life). Why don't you get some psychologists to come in and watch these groups play different games. I mean, they're juvenile offenders and people too, but it doesn't mean we can learn from the _mistakes_ we've made as a society...

    --

    ________________________________________________

  284. LucasArts by catseye_95051 · · Score: 2

    George Lucas has had a project for awhile to create educational games. Driodworks coems to mind, there may be others.

    For (generally) non-violent, mind strethcing recreation, i'd also look at some of the adventure games. Escape from Monkey island is a fun new one. Some of the older ones like Day of the Tentacle or Sam and Max are still lots of fun too.

  285. Avoiding Violence as an Easy Solution by jake-in-a-box · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Almost all games involve competition. When competition occurs, some form of violence is inevitable. The issue to be avoided are graphic violence and use of violence a a reflexive or first resort. Games like Quake both graphically depict violence, and also fundamentally teach that violence is a problem-solving technique. That's not the idea you are trying to get across.

    Chess is a war game. But there is no graphic violence. Lemmings depicts the final explosion as failure. It trvializes it, but it's not the same as a first person shooter.

    Civilization (Civ II?) may be a good compromise. Yes, there are battles, but strategy and economic development are the keys. Starving citizens are to be avoided.

    The SIM games also appeal. Avoid SimCopter.

    How about Need for Speed? Not much literacy there.

    --
    To hear the gods laugh tell them your plans.
    1. Re:Avoiding Violence as an Easy Solution by Squeeze+Truck · · Score: 2

      Starving citizens are to be avoided.

      But wiping out rival populations is quite desirable.

      --

      "Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao

  286. Leisure Suit Larry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Try the Leisure Suite Larry series of games. No violence and funny like hell!

  287. WHY NO RACING GAMES? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wouldnt some racing games be OK??

    Like NASCAR?

    Formula One?

    Boat Racing?

    Off Road Truck?

    Motorcycle?

    There are lots of those games out there, that really are pretty non-volient..

  288. Non-violent but challenging adventure games by Cyberian+Husky · · Score: 1

    Try http://www.dreamcatchergames.com for some great adventure games that involve problem solving but have a bit more action than Myst & Riven. Some of the games they sell have animated violence, but most of them are rated "E" & are nonviolent, yet are interesting for people above the age of twelve. My personal fave: Beyond Atlantis. I didn't care for "the Crystal Key" (lots of bugs, have to download patches & possibly change Quicktime settings) but others liked it. (There are about 3 others I want to buy, but have put a moratorium on purchases until I finish the ones I already have.)

  289. See IBM Robocode and give them Java experience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I understand the violence factor you mentioned, but you might want to look at the IBM Robocode that was posted on Slashdot a few days ago. It could give these children the past-time you are looking for, and provide them with great programming skills, hopefully opening a motivating and creative carrer path to them.

  290. Paganitzu by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Romancing the rose, and old EGA platform puzzle/maze.

    Also Brix is a an old DOS VGA puzzle game.

    Passage (I prefer Passage 95) from geckosoft is
    a cool tile game (like a reverse mahjongg).

  291. Venharis by LUDO54 · · Score: 1

    It hasn't been released yet, but it would seem to be a good bet. Learn about chaos theory and fractals as well as musical composition.

    Venharis

    Or if you just want to do the musical composition (using fractals) check out organised chaos

  292. A current alternative by GoofyBoy · · Score: 3, Informative


    with pretty pictures and music is Railroad Tycoon II.

    They are coming out with a rerelease Sept 20th.

    Excellent non-violence, competitive game.

    --
    The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
  293. Snood! by mumkin · · Score: 1

    Snood is a nonviolent arcade-style game that requires a decent amount of forethought and planning. When I was managing labs at a middle school, both the students and teachers couldn't get enough of it. Available for MacOS, Windows, PalmOS and soon, it seems, GameBoy Advance. Download a fully-functional copy of this fine shareware game and give it a try.

  294. Lucas Learning/Tranquility by ktlyst · · Score: 1

    People have already mentioned a couple of Lucas Learning titles - but missed my favorite "Pit Droids" In this puzzle game that's like lemmings, you have to create a path from one part of the game to the exits for the Pit Droids to get to. The game teaches pattern recognition, ratios, and simple branching (All needed for programming!!). Add to that Star Wars themes arranged as jazz, and you have an addictive title for adults too. You can also make your own puzzles once you've finished the game. If you're on a Mac, Tranquility is another great 3D puzzle game that teaches patience!! http://www.tqworld.com/

  295. Doctor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some years ago I used to play "Doctor", a rather simple game but a real mind-twister from time to time...

    Not a violent game at all, if I remember corectly...

  296. M.U.L.E. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Electronic Arts used to make a game called M.U.L.E. for tha Atari 800 and Commodore 64. Totally nonviolent, easy to learn, requires almost no literacy, and focuses on out-competing other colonists for resources and production. The nice thing is that you could pick up the game and a console to run it on (dedicated!) for less than most new games cost. When something breaks, toss it.

  297. Knowledge Adventure games by Emster · · Score: 1

    Knowledge Adventure (owned by Sierra) puts out two series of educational games (jump-start and blaster) aimed at children of (all ages) with cute cartoon characters. While their newest game incorporates a spy theme and uses a fireball blast to destroy robots, my brother, who works their, says its the first time they've ever used an explosion graphic. (The game characters have never used guns). The games teach a lot of spelling/grammar/language arts as well as math and logic. Additionally they have geography, science, and history components. They have a wide variety of games with different themes (ie skateboarding adventures etc) and grade levels. Perhaps you might find one of their games of interest.
    Try http://www.knowledgeadventure.com/

  298. Zork by dstone · · Score: 2

    'nuff said.

  299. The game of SET by beemboy · · Score: 1

    One very challenging card game is SET (a favorite of mine), which also has a PC version and a downloadable demo. Try www.setgame.com.

  300. Galapagos by j-turkey · · Score: 1

    Check out Galapagos from Anark.

    Its an old game, and its not even losted on their site anymore -- but I'm sure its out there. It works on both Wintel and Macintosh platforms.

    Its heavily based on its AI -- its kind of unique like that. You control this little robot (it has a catchy name, but I forgot what it is) that learns and develops behavioral patterns and intelligence. The premise is that you need to help this little sucker (life form) through a hostile world by affecting the world rather than the character.

    You can't control the creature directly, but you can alter its environment to make it do different stuff. You can click on its posterior to give it a push in a certian direction, hit it in the nose to stop it, or push it away -- left, right etc. You can also click on triggers throughout the level (they flash to let you know that they're clickable) to affect the environment to help it to complete a puzzle. the AI is kind of neat -- if you click on/aggrivate your robot too much, it becomes neurotic!

    I'd say that its probably less violent than Lemmings (no Lemming nukes or otherwise exploding creatures) -- and probably less than TIM (no gun as a catalyst) ;).

    Again, its a really old game, so you will have to search a little to find it, but a benefit of that is that it will run really old on whatever old hardware you've got...it is 3d, and its got a decent software renderer, and it supports some 3d hardware...not sure of the details though.

    Check it out sometime. I'm sure that it will make your kids feel good...or likely better than a detention center/(insert bad stuff here) makes them feel. Hope this helps!


    J-Turkey


    It ain't too cool bein' no jive turkey so close to Thanksgiving!

    --

    -Turkey

  301. Older lucas arts games by OmegaDan · · Score: 2

    most will run happily on 486's ... and at most have comic mischeif and some rare cartoon violence ...

    Read: Monkey Island 1 and 2, Day of the Tentacle, Sam n Max hit the road, etc...

    Some other non-violent games that require like a p200mx or better : monkey islan 3, 4 and Grim Fandango ...

    Grim Fandango might be an interesting choice -- its about "Manny" who is forced to work off his misdeeds in life by public service in death ... and its the best game ever made.

    Most of these you can pickup for 15$, theres a reissue of moneky island 3 that includes monkey island 1 and 2 as well ... 15$ :)

    email if youd like more info

  302. Non violent but fun by Araneas · · Score: 1

    Bullfrog's Theme Park is pretty cool. Economics, layout and design, cool rides to boot.
    Good feedback loop too. More cash more research better rides. Most violent part is trying to make your park patrons puke because the toilets are overflowing....

  303. Breakout! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Breakout back in the days of pong would be perfect. But shouldn't it be more like multi-player games (that are not violent?)would work better to teach them to work together toward a common goal.

  304. the incredable machine by SteelRat · · Score: 1
    The Incredable Machine.

    Non voilent.

    Thinking skills.

    Problem solving.

  305. Rubik's Playground by jflynn · · Score: 2

    I haven't played it since I nuked my windows partition, but Rubik's Playground was one of the best and most fun puzzle games I've ever seen. Being a physics simulation, it requires developing sound intuition about mechanics. It comes with a built in editor allowing students to create puzzles for themselves and others as well.

    The game also includes 3 other puzzles, including a nice cube simulation. It certainly fits the no-violence criterion at least :).

  306. Hate to go contrary to 0ld sk00l opinions, but... by stomv · · Score: 1

    Oregon trail has violence.

    Yup, some might count shooting animals with a rifle as violent. Unless you want to hack the game to remove the hunting (leaving stocking up early and bushes as the sole source of food), you've got violence in Oregon Trail.

    D'oh.

  307. Serious Sam!!! by stungod · · Score: 1

    Play it in Hippie mode and the blood and gibs turn into flowers and fruit!

    OK, maybe it's still kinda violent, but it's funny as hell. Kill a room full of monsters and it's covered in daisies and melons.

  308. Seach and Rescue by dwhedon · · Score: 1

    from the web page (http://wolfpack.twu.net/SearchAndRescue/)

    Changing the pace of recent sterotypical game themes, Search and Rescue aims to create a plot based on positive goals such as saving victims in varying situations of distress.

    The player will be given the chance to pilot different types of rescue aircraft in a variety of search and rescue style missions.

    Search and Rescue is highly customizeable by allowing intermediate players to create their own missions and allowing experianced players to design their own aircraft and scenery.

  309. Harvest Moon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm not sure if you're considering console games at all, but if you are, you seriously might want to look into "Harvest Moon" for the Playstation.

    The game teaches you to be a farmer. Seriously.

    Plant crops. Water crops. Pull weeds and till the fields on your farm. Care for sheep, cows and chickens. Make friends with the villagers, and try to convince one of them to marry you. Cook recipes at home. Understandably, it may sound a bit dull, but the game is remarkably addictive.

    It's also nonviolent. You don't get to kill and eat the cows, sheep, or chickens, though you do get to cook fish, and may attack stray animals that endanger your livestock. Anyway, you may find it well worth looking at.

  310. Bubble Bobble by Von+Rex · · Score: 1

    I think my favorite non-violent game ever was Bubble Bobble. I wasted many hours playing that with friends in university. It's really an excellent game with two players, since they both play at once and must co-operate to clear a screen.

    Seems to me there were a lot of games like that before the PC became standard with it's single joystick port. A real shame that good 2 player games are only to be found on consoles these days. I miss my old Atari 800 with it's four joystick ports. Now there was a great game-playing machine.

  311. Teach 'em to be Geeks! by Kwil · · Score: 1

    Robot Odyssey was a good educational game that gave the basics of designing circuits and logic using your various logic gates, flip-flops, etc. It gets very involved and awfully difficult near the end-levels.

    I imagine just about any sports based game (other than the obvious wrestling/rugby) would work for meeting the non-violent criteria.

    You might also consider the various Play by Mail games out there - especially those that have regular turns run. This also gives added negotiating power - do the homework, get to see their next turn, etc. Of course, that requires net access.

    --

    That Jesus Christ guy is getting some terrible lag... it took him 3 days to respawn! -NJ CoolBreeze

    1. Re:Teach 'em to be Geeks! by Kwil · · Score: 1

      Whoops! Skip the mobygames.com link. They don't actually have the software (the perils of not deep searching).

      Instead, go to http://www.droidquest.com for the Apple version + emulator, or for his freeware Java version.

      --

      That Jesus Christ guy is getting some terrible lag... it took him 3 days to respawn! -NJ CoolBreeze

  312. Scott Adams by mlheur · · Score: 1

    Now he had some pretty good games...
    I dont remember any violence in chopping down a tree to climb down and get eaten by chiggers, or grabbing a statue of a blue ox and saying bunyon.

    Just going for variety here...

  313. Sims and Civs by TMB · · Score: 2

    Sims and Civs were definitely what leapt to mind for me. Devastatingly addictive, so they won't complain about being bored. Not violent (certainly not in an FPS way, in any case... you let them play Risk? You'll let them play Civ). They'll spend a long time strategizing. Great combination!

    [TMB]

  314. Great thinking/fungames, don't require lots of CPU by 5n3ak3rp1mp · · Score: 1

    1) The Incredible Machine
    2) Railroad Tycoon (the latest one)
    3) Sim-anything
    4) Snood
    5) RTS games (I would argue that the strategic thought exercise outweighs the cartoon violence)
    6) Sid Meier games in general (Alpha Centauri is pretty good, try having them win through cooperation and trade instead of warfare... I think it's important to have games with warfare as an option but that also show the down-side to it, and SMAC does a good job of this... This is the only way kids will learn to NOT choose to fight)
    7) Any MMORPG

    Lots of games have things "disappearing" in an abstract manner, and that is often interpreted as "killing" it, so good luck finding games that have nothing to do with that theme =)

  315. MMORPGs!?!? Excuse Me?? by JSBiff · · Score: 2

    I was with you right up to point Number 7. Most MMORPGs are built around killing people/monsters with swords, knives, arrows and explosives (albeit "magical" explosives, lol). I seriously doubt most MMORPG's would pass the No Violence clause. And most of them wouldn't be particularly contructive environments for Juvenile Delinquents to be in, methinks.

    1. Re:MMORPGs!?!? Excuse Me?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      w00t yuo is teh sux n00b!!!111 i si lvl 3429 fagg0t!!!!111

  316. Balance of Power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Balance of Power is a good game to teach geography and world geopolitics. Yes, the game can end in nuclear war, but that is considered a loss. The idea is to gain as much influence during the cold war as a superpower without pushing the world to nuclear war. It's pretty cool and educational. I played it on the Mac.

  317. Leisure Suit Larry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't forget the Leisure Suit Larry series. The most violent act is the occasional acquisition of an STD. If it's a boy's detention center, that game will definitely hold their interest - and it's not even hard core by today's standards.

  318. Career improvement by ehiris · · Score: 1

    Try "king pin". It will help them move on with their career.

  319. I got addicted to Endorfun for awhile there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I broke the habit, but the marijuana use still continues.

  320. Adventure games by Rubel · · Score: 1

    I suppose literacty might be a problem, as well as attention spans, but my favorite non-violent games have been some of the past few years' best adventure games, such as The Longest Journey, Grim Fandango, and Sanatorium. Fantastic stuff.

  321. Neverhood by jwebster8 · · Score: 1

    Neverhood by Dreamworks... it's been out a few years, but its great fun and requires lots of thinking to solve some of the puzzles.

  322. Non-violent games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Capitalism is a good one, if you can find it. The name is pretty accurate in how it behaves. Though, not completely comprehensive, it covers a lot of applications that require a limited creative thinking. There is also a multiplayer option, albeit it is quasi-turn based (very slow), it could be fun for your students if there is no violent games for them to play! A little secret is that competition IS violent in this game. :)

  323. Pirate and Traveler by T1girl · · Score: 2

    Maybe he could find an old set of Pirate and Traveler? It combined elements of geography, adventure and risks, although the references to whale trade, seal skins, polar bear fur and cannibals might not be politically incorrect.

  324. Tetris by diadem · · Score: 1

    'nough said

    --
    Liquid Gaming - Your daily dose of gaming news
  325. I suggest Food Chain by 01000111 · · Score: 1

    Food Chain from Cajun Games http://www.cajungames.com/foodchain/ is a very addictive creative puzzle solver game. The only violence is small cartoon animals that eat each other, as part of the 'food chain'

    --
    011001110110110001100101011011100110001001101111
  326. Fools Errand by Wordman · · Score: 1
    If you happen to have any old Macs, the game Fools Errand was (and still is) the best "puzzle game" ever. Unfortunately, it was catered to the 68000 architecture (the original 68000, that is, not 680x0), so it doesn't run on much these days (remember "odd address errors" anyone?) without a MacPlus emulator, and has never been updated. Totally cool game, though. Abandonware is such a drag.

    In a similar genre, I liked Jewels of the Oracle. It's still available.

  327. dope wars by miguel_larios · · Score: 1

    www.dopewars.com

  328. Lemmings by GregWebb · · Score: 2

    Sorry to shatter illusions, but I can remember some serious mindless violence with Lemmings.

    What we used to do with Lemmings 1 was to find a level with lots of stone that could be blown up - below and beside, but not too much above. We'd then fence every single Lemming into a really, really narrow zone. When we had 100 Lemmings into an area maybe 30-40 pixels wide, we'd set off the Nuke 'em. They all blow up 5 seconds later, some sooner than others. Some are blown into the air, some bounce around, lots of scenery gets blown up and it's all very spectacular and silly.

    Or, occasionally, for simple sadism, dig a hole above some water or (even better) lava and watch a whole convoy walk along, then fall in and scream, quietly.

    With a sufficiently sadistic mind, Lemmings is perfectly capable of being used for violence.

    --

    Greg

    (Inside a nuclear plant)
    Aaaarrrggh! Run! The canary has mutated!

  329. You could even do something crazy.... by n2dasun · · Score: 1

    ....like take them outside and have them play some physical sport that forces them to use problem solving and to respect the limits and abilities of their own bodies. Just a thought.

    ------------------
    I threw away my tv. It wasn't raising my kids right. --Me

    --
    I'm determined to reclaim my karma. Now, if I can only find a groundbreaking article and something witty to say....
  330. Black and White by Octoberfest · · Score: 1

    Black and White can easily be played with no violence. It also offers you to interact with a "creature" and "villagers". It's a great game in my opinion and kids will love it.

    1. Re:Black and White by swisener · · Score: 1

      Sure, I can just see Junior petting his tiger lovingly while you're watching; when you're not, however, he's teaching El Tigro to munch on villagers, hurl lightning bolts and beat the hell out of opposing creatures. Meanwhile, he's burning the nonbelievers' towns to the ground with his gnarled red fist of pure evil, laughing maniacally all the while. He was bad before, but now he's got a God complex...

      --Steven

  331. Hooked ob bee-bonics, and the Pizza Business Game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This would be great to teach them how to enterprise, and it would teach them how to perform "bee-bop"

  332. Ultima Online Server Emulator by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To throw out a different approach you might want to consider an Ultima Online Server Emulator - a Massive Multiplayer Role Playing game. http://www.uoxdev.com is just one, there are several. UOX is an open source project so if this approach becomes effective you could with help from the development community provide a custom approach to your issues.

    Also you must also have an the Ultima Online Client. These can still be purchased in stores. The last time I bought a client from Best Buys it was under 20.00. However, I think the latest version in stores now is around 30.00 to 40.00 dollars.

    The hardware required for running the old version of the Ultima Online client, which I hear is still included in the newer versions, was only a 160 MHz Pentium and a 2D graphics card. This would allow you to use older less expensive equipment. I seen these systems without monitors going for about 100.00 each on ebay.

    To this you would also need a network and a server.

    While UO has violence It would be easy to remove the targeting code which effectivly prohibit fighting. If you just want to remove the blood and gore there are tools to edit the graphics files removing them from the game. Ask the development team what they think at the UOX site.

    I can see several advatages to using a Massive Multiplayer Role Playing game to teach group interaction skills and problem solving through teamwork.

    It also provides an open ended creative process through the creation and running of game stories and quests. You could split your group into two teams one running the story and one playing the game. The stories could be chossen with the thought of teaching morals.

  333. Another fine game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's old, but it is non-violent and very educational on an abstract level. M.U.L.E.,
    a game from the early/mid '80s. One of the
    last incarnations was for the original 8bit
    Nintendo (NES). The game supports 4 player
    simultaneous. And, above all else, it is non
    violent.

    The game focus is around a mining colony planet.
    As the game starts, there is a scrolling, hit
    to claim land grab on the screen. First player
    to punch button wins land plot. Since there are
    more than one plots, everyone gets something out
    of it. The second stage is harvesting minerals,
    electricity, etc. Each player gets a 2 minute
    turn to set up and start producaiotn of
    neccesities on their land plots. The final
    stage of the game turn is a free market trading
    session. Players choose to buy or sell and all
    at once there is a free market simulation.

    The game overall goes for about 9 or 10 turns.
    Big fun with 4 people. Again, MULE is
    non-violent. MULE went down in history as a
    classic, but sequels never occoured because
    no-one could come up with any contributions to
    the gameplay without adding violence.

    This link may explain better than I do:
    http://www.classicgaming.com/rotw/mule.shtml

    This game is older than dirt, but maybe you can
    wow the kids with your "old-school" prowress.
    Best of luck.

  334. Spare Change - non-violent A2 game. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Perhaps someone could `update' "Spare Change", an Apple IIe/c arcade game - no violence - but was a lot of fun. One had to manipulate getting `coins' into a piggy-bank and stop the onscreen characters from taking the `coins' away from you, level by level. Then there's "Lode-Runner" - but there is a wee bit of violence in that one. Whatever the case - "Spare Change" was a gas!!

  335. A few ideas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1. Some non-violent racing games may be good options. Try getting a few PlayStation2's and a few copies of Gran Turismo 3. It has realism, quite a good amount of maps, tons of car models (in the hundreds), competition modes, and customization options like hell. This is not an easy fizzler - if you like it at first you might be bound to play a lot more. This simulation may pump up creative juices - players have to deal with money and car management, and also car mechanics. This may even get interested on some of them in auto-repair business or the like.

    2. Likewise, some sports games. Try looking for something not as "common" as the usual baseball, basketball, football. A "combination-idea", Wave Race's (Nintendo 64 and GameCube) are a good choice.

    3. Puzzlers. Many are actually boring, but you might just find some good. I remember having played a Super Nintendo mixture of Tetris+Pac-Man. You'd drop wall pieces, monsters, and an occasional Pac-Man. It played a lot better than I make it sound. My house has never been so full of people! Some might argue Pac-Man eating monsters may be violent, but c'mon.

    4. Try finding games that are half-cartoony. If they're too childish they just might not like it, but games that are too real might not be appropriate if they carry even the slightest hint of violence. Half-cartoony games that are slightly violent may be OK (of course case-by-case evaluation applies).

    5. Management type of games such as Rollercoaster Tycoon and the such can spark interest due to [non-obvious at first] management components. Trying to earn money so that you can make that next "attraction" can make you double-check how you're playing - if you play sloppy you might not make it very far.

    6. Continue digging for gold nuggets! May I suggest the "Harvest Moon" zero-violence farm-RPGs. I played the Nintendo 64 version, and believe, how it plays is much more fun than whatever may come to mind at first.

  336. Aye by xmurf · · Score: 0

    I have to agree.. evangelion.. *drools*

  337. If they can be set permanently ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Both Civilization: Call to Power and Age of Empires II have winning conditions that are NOT based on wiping out your
    opponents (computer or human); I suspect FreeCiv does, too. If either of the first two games can be coerced into ALWAYS
    using the build-not-kill victory conditions, they may serve your purpose. Perhaps the FreeCiv developers could build
    a version like that for your students. If they only have the binary, then they shouldn't be able to change it to kill-mode.

  338. But do they want games? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most types of youths in a detention centre are violent, hyperactive & egotistical. The type of games that would suit them are shoot-em-ups. They're fast paced, violent & require little thinking. Games like Sim City, Civilisation, etc are all too slow, intelligence-intensive & plain 'uncool' for most of those types.

    The only game I can think of that would be suitable would be "Homeworld" by Relic.

  339. Rollercoaster Tycoon by symbolic · · Score: 1

    I thought this game was reasonably entertaining, and it's certainly non-violent. It's entirely creative, since you have to figure out how to build/maintain amusement parks based on the criteria for each level. When you get tired of using the pre-packaged rides, you can start designing your own, which emphasizes skills involving 3D/spatial assessment.

  340. Educational Programming Environments for Kids by sambo_shacklock · · Score: 2, Informative
    This happens to be what I'm doing a Ph.D. on. Here are some environments which might be of use (they're all pretty slick and engaging):

    Alice)
    Essentially a 3D version of Logo. Users program 3D worlds and have characters which interact. Very cool (and no cost). The underlying language is Python.

    Agentsheets
    Stagecast
    Both very good environments which allow children to build simulations of anything which interests them. They both use visual languages to reduce the need for keyboards.

    ToonTalk
    Users program robots to perform tasks. All done using programming by demonstration.

    Lego Mindstorms
    Yeah, don't need to write anything here. It's wicked.

    Alternatively, you can wait until I develop my environment, but don't held your breath...:)

    --
    Carpe post meridian
  341. Juvie Hall Memorial Arcade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How about a fun new game called "Pick Up Garbage Off the Side of the Interstate"..?

    Jeezus, kids are playing video games in jail now..? Maybe I should go stab someone so I can sit around and play Oregon Trail all day long.

  342. my good non-violent games: by zama · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'm sure out of all these people somebody must have said it, but I'll reiterate - The Neverhood. Great game. Puzzles are challenging and entertaining. The humour is great for children of all ages. I dig the music too but others beg to differ (what is there not to like about 'The Doi-Doi Song'?). The claymation aspect also makes it very entertaining.

    Mindrover is a terrific game that really helps build concrete skills. And fun too! But the rocket launchers prolly count as 'violence'. Hmmm.

    What about Civilization II? At the mid to high levels the difficulty is challenging and requires planning and strategy. And of course it's fun as hell. I guess you could call it "violence" when two armies fight in CivII, but in the way that two chesspieces fight.

  343. Acorn is pretty cool by cyanide · · Score: 1

    Our first Massively Multiplayer Role Playing^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HSwine Herding Game.

    http://www.worldforge.org/website/rules/acorn/

    --
    Ven. Jhanrato
  344. Chu Chu Rocket, Puyo Pyuo, Dr. Mario... by Vegan+Pagan · · Score: 2

    Chu Chu Rocket, Puyo Pyuo, Sega Swirl and Dr. Mario are great ones.

    CCR is a high speed, simplified version of Lemmings. Your goal is to save mice from cats by laying some arrow tiles on the floor in the mice's path. It's made by Sonic Team for Dreamcast, and it supports up to 4 players at once. You can get the whole setup for under $150 now.

    Puyo Puyo and Dr. Mario are similar to Tetris; you have to guide falling colored pieces to keep the screen from filling. The US version of Puyo Puyo are called "Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine" on Sega Genesis and Sega Game Gear and "Kirby's Avalanche" on Super NES. You can get those whole setups for under $60, though they might be hard to find.

    Sega Swirl is another game sort of like Tetris. It's free, since it comes on the web browser disk with every Dreamcast. If you don't have it, Sega will send you a free web browser disk in the mail by calling 1-800-USA-SEGA.

    If they have some patience, try teaching them BASIC. Two recent versions are especially made for making games, and thus have lots of graphic and sound commands. Learn to Program BASIC from Interplay, made for 2D graphics, costs $30 and Dark Basic, made for 3D graphics, costs $70. Both run in Windows, and LTPB also runs in MacOS.

  345. Time to kill? by foldedspace · · Score: 1

    Nothing wastes more of my time that trying to learn a new language (computer or spoken/written). A lot of the foreign language software comes with little games to play. Also Ham University has a game that teaches Morse Code (Pentode) and there are others. This is the kind of stuff I would want in their shoes, since Q3A is off limits. You don't have to aim low with children's software. Ask the prisoners what they want from the suggestions listed here. You might actually be worth something if you could translate after release.

  346. The Emulated Oregon Trail, new version too! by kninja · · Score: 1
    I saw an apple IIe emulator a year ago, and I saw the rom for this game too. It was tiny. It would run on old hardware too (386 or greater probably). I'm sure it's out there. Number Munchers, Word Munchers, Math games, all MECC titles (They were the educational software co back in the day.) and should still be good today.

    However, if these kids require eye candy, there was a new release: here is some info.

    Those of us with nostalgia would probably prefer the IIe version, but your students might like the new one.

    Critical thinking, math, planning, and luck all play a big role in your success. I loved this game and it was always a treat to play it.

    Print out these testimonials to quell any "policy."

  347. Java corrupts young minds. Learn Python. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Don't teach them a hyped-up proprietary nickle-and-dime language that wastes memory like an American Consumer wastes natural resources. That will start them out on the wrong foot, and have a negative effect on their world outlook and lifestyle.


    Teach them Python, of course! It really is free, not controled by Sun. Learning Python will give them the perspective to see through foolish fads like Java, and make them immune from believing bullshit like Sun marketing hype.

  348. It's not a game, but it might fit the need... by Halfaxe · · Score: 1

    While I think the sims and other "toys" are better than games for what you are trying to do, I think a "tool" would be even better still. I'm thinking of a 3D rendering/modeling/animation program, such as trueSpace 3D. It's easy to start fiddling with without reading instructions, has built-in tutorials to teach the use of the fancier features, lets people create photo-realistic scenes or animations fairly simply, but scales up to TV-quality stuff too. It can be used by just about anyone, but there are many obvious "hooks" to use to branch off into physics (it has real world physics, such as gravity and collisions, in the animation section so things behave realistically), there's a lot of math involved in the NURBS, Splines, boolean object functions, and most other aspects of the software, though you don't *have* to know it to make nice images...it just helps you understand what's going on. As a "grabber" to get attention and teach planning, concentration, and stick-with-it, it's useful, but add in the branching off to math, cinematorgraphy, physics, art, story-telling and lots of other things, and I think you can't beat it. There are public-domain and freeware programs, such as PovRay, which do some of the same things at little or no cost, but trueSpace is really a good program for beginners...like I was when I started using it. It's not cheap, but perhaps, given your use and environment, Caligari might agree to donate a few copies? Might be worth asking anyway. http://www.caligari.com/ should get you contact info and more description of what the program can do.

  349. Humongous by epeus · · Score: 2

    You didn't give an age range, but for younger children, Humongous sotware do a good collection (Pajama Sam etc). SockWorks is very cool - debug a cellular automaton in the form of conveyer belts moving socks around to get them in the right basket.

    For older children

    Logical Journey of the Zoombinis from Broderbund is another puzzle game where you have to solve problems to get the Zoombinis to freedom.

    Zap from Edmark is also very neat - you have to fix all the electrics, lights and sound systems to put on a gig, and the simulators are very general.

  350. Caution: Killer naked bunny with attitude! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sam and Max? Sam and Max??! SAM AND MAX??!??!!? Have you ever read Sam and Max comix? It's a great comic and a great game, but ANYTHING but non-violent! Sam is fucking sadistic!

  351. Actually... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... 'no violence' is a fixed criterion.

  352. Thinkin Things #1, #2, #3, etc... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Good for younger children. Wonderfully abstract, stimulating, creative and interactive. Well thought of by educators.

  353. Gotta go with the 'Classics' by Naz · · Score: 1

    I spose I'd have to look back to my childhood(which wasn't that long ago) and look at the games I enjoyed :)

    Monkey Island 1,2,3 (Ok so maybe 3 wasn't in my childhood but I'm still a kid at heart ;))

    Day of the Tentacle

    Sam and Max Hit the Road

    Those games will keep most kids/young adults occupied for hours with both puzzles and humor. I've also heard good things about Grim but I've never had a chance to play it (and who wants 3D anyway ;))

  354. Sim City or Microsoft Flight Simulator by Morocco+Mole · · Score: 1

    Both of these games are non violent (unless you crash your airplane}. And come to think of it EA golf, soccer etal could be considered non violent....

    --Richard

  355. What's a violent game ? by jenesuispasgoth · · Score: 1

    I know this can seem a pretty dull question, but you have to define what kind of violence we're talking about. Let me explain :
    While some adventure games may have no explicit violent scenes featured, the atmosphere conveyed can be unhealthy (think of Shadow of the Comet, or Alone in the Dark, two Lovecraft-inspired games).
    On the contrary, combat games (such as Fatal Street Shodown ;-) ) are stress-annihilators, since they redirect it into the game - but since they have no educationnal purpose, they can't be chosen.

    I've seen some comments here saying that since they were fairy tale-inspired games, the King Quest series (and other games molded the same way) may not be a good choice. That is *so* wrong. Yes, fairy tales include real gory details, and a certain amount of violence. I think we're missing the point by searching violence-free games, because almost everything we do is violence-related in some way, IMHO.

    Yes SimCity, etc. could allow people to create big cities just to crush them after that, but you just can't prevent people from diverting a game's purpose to fill their need of violence. We're all violent to some extent; we just need to know how to release our impulses the good way (ie by doing sports, playing fighting video games, whatever helps to avoid bashing one's neighbour).

    Now, the purpose is educationnal, but since the players have litteracy problems, you need to make them want to play those games... Myst, etc. are very good games, but, as it's been said previously, maybe a little too "abstract" for these guys. An old game I quite like is The 7th Guest. It is graphically correct, deals with enigmas, and has a good, enticing atmosphere.

    In any case, you just can't give them games that aren't featuring enough "beautiful" graphics - at least at the beginning.

    I would personnaly recommend any of the lucas adventure games (with a preference for Day of the Tentacle, which is a really crazy game, and prompts the player to imagine the weirdest solutions to solve problems)

  356. Excessive Machine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Excessive Machine is another good non-violent game. It is I think the prequel to the Incredible Machine.

  357. Trax by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Two player game, simple rules, easy to play, hard to master.

    Main Trax Site

    and Free

  358. Heaven And Earth by miro2 · · Score: 1

    Heaven and Earth, by Scott Kim (google him for web site), is one of the most incredible puzzle games ever made. It features hundreds of delightful single-screen puzzles based on subtle visual illusions and interface tricks. No boring search-the-dungeon-for-the-key or find-the-secret-combination puzzles. Did anyone else find this game as wonderful as I did?

  359. Music composer programs by billstewart · · Score: 2

    There are a lot of different music programs, MIDI widgets, piano keyboard emulators, etc. Some are happier with special input devices, but there's a lot you can do with just vanilla soundcards, and there are programs for Macintoshen as well as Windows.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  360. There are none! by swordgeek · · Score: 2

    That's right, I said none! Well, I guess Tetris qualifies, but there are _hardly_ any.

    Nearly every non-kiddie game available has some tie to violence. Grim Fandango, one of the finest games written (not just coded--written) is set in the Mexican Day of the Dead, and still manages to involve violence and death. So does Zork. So does Myst, for that matter. So do all of the other suggestions I've seen, including Lode Runner.

    The question is, where does violence become encouraging and gratuitous? This is, of course, different for different people. (hence the problem with games inciting copycat behaviour in some people and not others; the problems with ratings; and so forth.) In a correctional facility or that sort of thing, you definitely want to be erring on the side of caution, but literature and drama might balance the books against violence in a game which has them all.

    The truly interesting thing is that the same argument goes for nearly every form of entertainment, education, and diversion ever created. Go figure!

    --

    "People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
  361. Puzzle games! by syukton · · Score: 1

    Puzzle games are by FAR the greatest mental stimulus I've ever been entertained by. the ENTIRE Tetris series of video games on the Nintendo platforms has always been entertaining. Stuff like the adventures of LoLo or Kickle Cubicle on the 8-bit Nintendo were just fantastic. Puzzle games with time limits teach problem solving in limited time, they quicken response and thought processes, and overall just make your brain function more quickly. It also teaches you to second-guess yourself, to plan things out in order to solve the puzzle. Really, I think puzzle games are essential to true mental development. Don't take my word for it though, TRY IT. (Pick up a super nintendo and the game 'tetris attack' and you'll see what I mean)

    -Sy

    --
    Reinvent the wheel only at either a lower cost, greater effectiveness, or your own personal enrichment and satisfaction.
  362. for the MacOS by speddling · · Score: 1

    Food Chain http://www.cajungames.com/foodchain/

  363. Old Sierra Games by Josuah · · Score: 1

    I think some of the very best games when it comes down to problem solving, reasoning, etc. are the original Sierra games. For example the King's Quest, Space Quest, Quest for Glory, and Police Quest series(es?).

    Unfortunately, there is a little bit of violence in some of these, notably Quest for Glory which involves sword fighting, Police Quest since you are a cop, and the latest King's Quest which really tried to get gamers who are into things like Quake. But most of the violence in the other King's Quest and Space Quest games weren't anything you wouldn't see in a storybook for kids.

  364. Railroad Tycoon II by Squeeze+Truck · · Score: 2

    Played at expert level to teach Economics.

    Seriously, that game has got a hard-core and complex economic model. Took me months to figure it out.

    --

    "Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao

  365. Zork by Grail · · Score: 1

    Zork, from infogames.

    You can apparently get the old Zork stuff from the Infocom web site.

    Involves getting eaten by grues, trolls with weapons, that kind of stuff, but no humans are harmed (apart from the player).

    See... even Geeks have violent fantasies. We kill imaginary creatures for fun. And profit.

  366. The UNIX philosophy is applicable here. by Squeeze+Truck · · Score: 2

    If you prevent [children] from doing stupid things, you prevent [children] from doing clever things.

    ...

    or something like that.

    --

    "Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao

  367. Mindrover: The Europa Project by Gaudeon · · Score: 1

    A 3D Game where your program cars using Logic. There is violence in that there are battle options.

  368. definatley go with dance dance revolution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I would say definatley go with dance dance revolution on the playstation. If you need more info or havent heard of it check out ddrfreak.com alot of people look at it and go that looks stupid but you would be amazed how much people get into once they try. If you have any other questions on it email me @ fabel@indirect.c()m

  369. Re:Old board games: Learning Chess by ShannonClark · · Score: 1

    Chess can be taught to anyone at almost any age - it does take patience to master - but it can be learned very easily.

    I was taught Chess by my grandfather at age FOUR - one of the best legacies he could have ever given me.

    Here in Chicago one of the great aspects of playing chess is that it is an activity that is open and available to anyone of any race, sex, or age - go to any of the public chess pavilions (actually this is true around the world for the most part) and you will find a group of people who would unlikely talk to each other in other circumstances playing a game for hours at a time.

    I have seen traders from the board of trade playing homeless men - and often lossing.

    There are hundreds of books and courses for how to teach chess - books and techniques tailored to any age - learning chess is a very powerful experience, it is fundementally a simple game - much simplier than most PC games - what makes it so difficult and so rewarding is how a very simple set of rules (7 types of pieces, two "special rules with pawns, one special move with King and rook, some special rules with one piece the king - that's really it) can create amazing complexity.

    Books I would strongly recommend is anything by a Lasker (either Emanuel Lasker or Edward Lasker). Emanuel Lasker's books are on my short list of the most influential books I have EVER read - they teach a great about how to think - not just how to think about chess.

    Both books teach chess backwards.

    They start by teaching how to move the pieces, then how to win in the endgame with only a few pieces on the board, then common ideas/elements of the middlegame, and then and only then do they talk about the opening - and here rather than teach specific opening lines they concentrate on understanding WHY certain moves are made.

    After understanding all this, not only do you play fairly decent chess, but you also begin to have a good feeling about how understanding something can help you make decisions, how small decisions can lead to bigger things in the end - all important lessons in life.

    Play chess is also a great chance for students in any situation to get exposed to the world - they can play each other, over the computer they can play online against people of similar skill levels across the globe, they can even participate in tournements - either in person or online.

    One of the joys of my life is the fact that in any city, nearly anywhere in the world, if I find a place where chess players meet, I can find a place where I can meet friendly people in that city - I have played chess all over the world - one of the best times being playing in the Luxumbourg gardens in Paris against an Englishman who lived in Paris - as an American tourist how else would you get to randomly meet people who live in that city.

    So, I have to disagree with Garcia on the subject of chess - go ahead and teach your students chess - there are many great computer programs to help, and many great online resources for them to explore - it will give them a skill and an entre into a world that they might not otherwise enter.

    Some real examples of this - through playing chess I have met millionaires, russian imigrants, hispanics, african americans, and many other people of as diverse a range of backgrounds, educational levels, and jobs as you could find. I have friends ranging from Business school professors, cab drivers, traders at the board of trade, city workers, to retired former "special assistants to Mayor Daley (Sr.) 75+ year old retires play 14 year teenagers. Through playing a common game we share a common passion (some would say madness) and over chess either in a public square, a local coffeeshop, or a local chess club we have a chance to meet, talk, and get to know each other.

    This occurs in a manner very rare in American - your students would seem very likely to benefit from learning and playing chess.

    Ask around - I suspect that there are local chess clubs, chess teachers, and probably even a grandmaster or two who would be very willing to help teach chess to your students - chess is a passion and most serious players love to share it.

    Shannon

    --
    -- Join us in Chicago May 1-4th for MeshForum -- writer, historian, tech geek, entrepreneur, internet junky since '91 --
  370. I ain't a gamer but ..... by bozo42 · · Score: 1
    I love games from http://www.soleau.com/

    They have great strategy games.

    --
    If you're not on somebody's shit list, you're not doing anything worthwhile.....
  371. You need Wally Bear by AbandonAllHope · · Score: 1

    Though it isn't a computer game, it does teach important lessons about life with an up-beat hip to the kids message! It was released on the original NES 8-bit system, so you won't need a lot of dollar either. Not sure if Wally is for you and those you wish to inspire, check out this informative website :

    http://www.seanbaby.com/nes/wallybear.htm

    Good luck in your honorable quest!

    --
    Abandon All Hope, Ye Who Enter Here
  372. Frogger by sideshow-voxx · · Score: 1

    The aim of that is for there to be as little violence as possible!

    --

    "Anybody remotely interesting is mad, in some way or another" - Doctor Who

  373. Re:Droidworks nay! PitDroids Yay! by caite · · Score: 1
    Seriously, PitDroids is an awesome game, fun to play and adaptable for varying levels of skill. It's puzzle based and non-violent.

    Droidworks was actually obnoxious to play in comparison, with each "level" taking more than 30 minutes to play. I only played the demo, but it was monotonous, loud, and stupid. And the puzzle was all about gear ratios. Talk about "educational", might as well get ToonTalk (which teaches kids to "program" in a faux-Lego 3D environment) or ReaderRabbit.

    There are a lot of games out there for those who like solving puzzles. Not just board game rip-offs. In fact, several of the computer game rating sites have a "puzzle" genre.

    I've enjoyed a lot of the Dreamcatcher games too. But watch out for the violence in those.

    If you're getting just one, PitDroids. The graphics are good, the sound is good, the game play is good (interface is decent), and since it's a LucasArts game, you'll be able to order it forever.

  374. Re:Old board games: Zillions of Games by Ondo · · Score: 1

    Take a look at Zillions of Games (http://www.zillions-of-games.com). It plays chess (and tons of variations), checkers, and many, many other perfect-information games, and has it's own LISP-ish programming language to add your own games.

  375. Robocode by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How about Robocode? It teaches programming skills.

  376. I suggest you do a BBS search by Zutroi_Zatatakowsky · · Score: 1
    And make them play Trade Wars 2002 and BRE. Maybe Legend Of the Red Dragon...


    Since everything is in text mode and interactive, it suits for non-violent games. And most of it, you would help the near-dead BBS scene!


    I'm kinda joking, I know... But I still call local BBSes oftan.

    --
    All Hail Discordia. Hail Eris. Fnord.
  377. Better than Civ: Pharaoh. by Chasing+Amy · · Score: 1

    Civ, even the later versions, can be too complicated in terms of interface and scope. I recommend Pharaoh, which is like Civ with a more intuitive interface and simpler options, and obviously a focus on one particular civilization. Like Civ bad stuff can happen--like your city being razed--but it's not inherently violent and is extremely fun and engaging. Personally, I enjoyed it as much as any Civ version I've tried, perhaps because the elegant simplicity lends itself to engaging more casual gamers like myself--and like most of your potential student players.

    --

    Chasing Amy
    (We all chase Amy...)
    "The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws"-Tacitus
  378. Err, tinysex... by Chasing+Amy · · Score: 1

    That's all you need to do--introduce them to a place where they could very likely end up having "tinysex"/cybersex with strangers. Try explaining how you let random cyberspace strangers "into the school," in the same hysteric society which runs that horrid commercial warning kids of reporting suspicious people online (horrid because the "online predator" guy is stereotypically a fat guy made up to look really ugly. Yes, let's teach kids to judge by appearance, and to think fat people are ugly and evil and out to molest them).

    Once you let them interact with strangers online, you open up a huge can of worms for which you WILL be held responsible the minute someone has cybersex or talks about something "untoward." Not to mention mock-violence like in the classic tale *A Rape in Cyberspace*.

    It would be a great idea--if only Americans weren't so paranoid about kids and the Net.

    --

    Chasing Amy
    (We all chase Amy...)
    "The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws"-Tacitus
  379. Splash3D by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Depending on their age, they might enjoy Splash3D from www.delphicoracle.com. There's a free demo there also...

  380. Educational Games by Aurelfell · · Score: 1

    The best game I've played in a month was Bridgebuilder. You can find it at http://www.bridgebuilder-game.com/. It's not overly educational in and of itself, (unless you want to build bridges in a two dimentional universe for a living,) but it developes skills which are transfurable to real engineering, math, programming, etc. A real gem, in my humble opinion.

  381. Try Colobot by roady · · Score: 1

    In the same vein, you have Colobot.

    You have to program robots in a C and logo like language to make them do some tasks like explore a planet.

    The primary goal of the game was to teach programming to kids.

    It looks quite childish at first, but in fact it is really entertaining.

  382. Zork by asv108 · · Score: 1

    nuff said..

  383. "Violence" defined by jolyon_jnr · · Score: 1

    In this situation, the definition of a violent game is one where the main theme is success through violence. As clearly pointed out, most games involve some possibility of violence. I'm looking for games where the aim is creative puzzle solving. Thanks for so many great suggestions, I have read everyone's comments.

  384. Soleau software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    There's a company that I ran across a while back which specializes in producing games that seem to fit the criteria. The following quote is from their website:
    Soleau Software is an innovator of educational, non-violent strategy, logic, and arcade games ...
    ( http://www.soleau.com )
    I've tried a couple of their games, and enjoyed them.
  385. Civilization by rp · · Score: 1
    I can't agree more. When I first played Civilization, the DOS game, I was struck by the accuracy of all the historical data mentioned there - clearly, this game has been made by a bunch of people who actually care about history, and don't merely want to use it as a scenery for a good game.

    But after a while, it also dawned on me that the analogy doesn't stop there: the game as a process is actually a fairly accurate model of historical reality. Balancing issues within the game, such as the balance between diplomacy and aggression, or war and economic development, are pretty accurate reflections of the balancing issues that nations face in the real world. Many historical events and processes can readily be explained in Civ terms.

    Civilization is first and foremost an addictive game, but at the same time, it is very instructive as a simulation of history.

  386. pokeman snap (N64) by Beevis · · Score: 1

    i'm not too sure if you count throwing apples at the beast as voilent ... but it's a game in which you can't die!

  387. Late in the game, but... by 11223 · · Score: 2
    I'll suggest any game in the Dr. Brain series - fun brain-twisters sans the violence.

    King's Quest is good too, but the most recent was T-rated, so I'd stick to the earlier versions...

  388. You want a non-violent, creative game.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...well, why not Sim City?