In chess there is always a finite point where the end of the game is forced by the rules, eg the 50-move rule. There is no such rule in Go or Shogi.
I think this is good and simply shows that neither Shogi or Go have been taken over by the sort of anal bores that have dominated the chess world for the last 60 years.
In Go the rules say the game is over if both players pass for 3 consecutive turns.
Therefore the players have to agree that the game is over; the formal method for indicating this is to keep passing. That's what I said.
Players will only pass if they feel they can not improve their score by playing.
A player may, and a computer certainly would, take "not lost yet" to be better than "stop now and add up my (losing) score" and simply refuse to pass. There's (almost?) always something you can play in Go as I recall. If money is at stake, why not?
As such, the endpoint of the game is clearly defined and not as fuzzy as your post suggests.
There is nothing clear about the endpoint of Go. There simply is no rule that states that the game must end at any point. There is an unwritten rule based on human beings' limited patience levels and understanding of the idea of politeness or sportsmanship, but they have no relevence to a machine with infinite patience.
Which will be easier to get solved by computers (or quantic computers) shogi or chess?
Chess is much the simpler game from this point of view as the loss of pieces in chess is a one way trip towards simplicity. In Shogi the pieces can come back on and so the game does not have the same steady progress to an endgame. In practice, of course, most games do move towards a sparcer state but it is a major difference in the two games which would affect "solving" them.
Both games have a strange aspect which westerners and programmers find tricky to handle: there are times when a game is over which the rules do not define but leave up to the players to agree. Basically the rules say "once the game can't be won, its over" without defining "can't". Programming this is difficult.
FWIW, shogi is far more fun than chess and more interesting too.
My point was that perhaps he likes wolves; I got the impression you thought the name should be shunned because some wankers in Turkey use it too.
Kaplan was not stupid, he was bent
on
2600 Appeal Rejected
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· Score: 3, Interesting
Kaplan used to work for Time-Warner and should therefore never have sat on the case as he had a history of friendship (or at the very least, a successful working relationship with the prosecution and had a history of personal dislike of the defence council, including advising people not to work for him.
The fact that Kaplan took the case shows that he was more interested in helping his friends and getting back at his enimies than in a fair trial.
The whole thing was a pantomime from beginning to end, but stupidity (or the law) had nothing to do with it.
the precision and expertise necessary to build the artificial ones is unbelievable.
The precision isn't as great as some would have you believe (so you're right-it is unbelievable!), but is high. The pyramid shapes at Cydonia are nothing like as good, even at the resolutions we've seen so far. Which is what I'd expect if they were natural.
Ben Bova in his second Mars book also talks about retriving things like the Sojourner and the Viking probes, which could be an interesting idea. I know *I'd* pay money to see those!
I'd rather they stayed where they are and NASA took us up there to see them in-situ!
I would tend to think that they are important enough to warrant further investigation.
Very slightly odd geological formations are a lot less important than looking for liquid water or micro-organisms.
Here's an interesting story you might find useful when dealing with various claims about aliens, pyramids, and Mars.
Last year my girlfriend and I went to Egypt to spend the millenium (Jan 1st 2001) at the Great Pryamids. As part of the two week break we flew down from Aswan to Abu Simbel to see Ramses' great temple to Ptah, Ra, and Osiris. The 'plane flew quite low (~8000 feet) and we had a good view of the landscape.
Guess what we saw?
Pyramids. Hundreds of them, and dozens of Sphinxes. All natural shapes carved out of the stoney sand by the wind.
At Abu Simbel itself we could see a couple of these natural pyramids, with one even sticking up out of the water of Lake Nassir.
This tells us several imporant things: The Egyptians did not need alien visits to inspire their pyramids, or the Sphinx; that such shapes in a desert are not uncommon; and that resources expended on a trip to Cydonia are very likely to tell us nothing that a quick trip in a cheap Egyption airliner didn't tell me.
You don't make obviously stupid generalizations based on sex or race (I guess I might be assuming too much here), why do so based on religion?
Race and sex are facts of life; religion is a choice, specifically a choice to believe in an explanation of the world around us that hasn't held water for several hundred years.
Religion is a joke in the way that a modern person maintaining that the human frame can not withstand velocities in excess of 30mph would also be a joke.
If he's paying you to produce the work then just do it and assign the copyright to him, i.e., sell the source. He gets the program and the material needed to hire someone else to maintain and upgrade it; you get paid and don't have to come back to work on it in a year or two when he needs more functions etc.
The flaw in this argument is that the stunt was actually done, the full thing, for the long shots. The stuntman really did get into the plane from the motorcycle.
After the film came out the stunt coordinator said in an interview that it was the most disapointing stunt of his career because it was the best and no one believed it was real because it was "obviously" impossible!
I'm using Opera 6 Beta 2 and it certainly seems to render the pictographic languages well (with anti-aliasing). Since I can't actually read them I don't know just how good it is, but it certainly isn't just a screen-full of empty boxes.
If it is Sony's business to sell Trinitrons with toasters popping out but not sell ones without, why can't they?
That's fine until Sony have 90% of the TV market and then start saying to retailers: "Sell our Trinitrons with toasters or we stop supplying you altogether (good luck in the 10% of the market we don't yet own)". At that point (the abuse of the legally obtained monopoly) the toaster makers have a legitimate complaint.
It is the element of force/extortion/blackmail that makes MS a criminal organisation.
We know that sometimes kids who are never exposed to alcohol until they are 19 or 21 can go way overboard the first time... is there a possibility of the same thing happening with violent video games?
And some kids get so into drink by the time they're 15 that if they don't get into re-hab they end up dead. Try to at least come close to a rational argument.
Slashdot Mirror
I think this is good and simply shows that neither Shogi or Go have been taken over by the sort of anal bores that have dominated the chess world for the last 60 years.
TWW
Therefore the players have to agree that the game is over; the formal method for indicating this is to keep passing. That's what I said.
Players will only pass if they feel they can not improve their score by playing.
A player may, and a computer certainly would, take "not lost yet" to be better than "stop now and add up my (losing) score" and simply refuse to pass. There's (almost?) always something you can play in Go as I recall. If money is at stake, why not?
As such, the endpoint of the game is clearly defined and not as fuzzy as your post suggests.
There is nothing clear about the endpoint of Go. There simply is no rule that states that the game must end at any point. There is an unwritten rule based on human beings' limited patience levels and understanding of the idea of politeness or sportsmanship, but they have no relevence to a machine with infinite patience.
TWW
Chess is much the simpler game from this point of view as the loss of pieces in chess is a one way trip towards simplicity. In Shogi the pieces can come back on and so the game does not have the same steady progress to an endgame. In practice, of course, most games do move towards a sparcer state but it is a major difference in the two games which would affect "solving" them.
TWW
FWIW, shogi is far more fun than chess and more interesting too.
TWW
My point was that perhaps he likes wolves; I got the impression you thought the name should be shunned because some wankers in Turkey use it too.
The fact that Kaplan took the case shows that he was more interested in helping his friends and getting back at his enimies than in a fair trial.
The whole thing was a pantomime from beginning to end, but stupidity (or the law) had nothing to do with it.
TWW
TWW
The precision isn't as great as some would have you believe (so you're right-it is unbelievable!), but is high. The pyramid shapes at Cydonia are nothing like as good, even at the resolutions we've seen so far. Which is what I'd expect if they were natural.
TWW
I'd rather they stayed where they are and NASA took us up there to see them in-situ!
TWW
Very slightly odd geological formations are a lot less important than looking for liquid water or micro-organisms.
Here's an interesting story you might find useful when dealing with various claims about aliens, pyramids, and Mars.
Last year my girlfriend and I went to Egypt to spend the millenium (Jan 1st 2001) at the Great Pryamids. As part of the two week break we flew down from Aswan to Abu Simbel to see Ramses' great temple to Ptah, Ra, and Osiris. The 'plane flew quite low (~8000 feet) and we had a good view of the landscape.
Guess what we saw?
Pyramids. Hundreds of them, and dozens of Sphinxes. All natural shapes carved out of the stoney sand by the wind.
At Abu Simbel itself we could see a couple of these natural pyramids, with one even sticking up out of the water of Lake Nassir.
This tells us several imporant things: The Egyptians did not need alien visits to inspire their pyramids, or the Sphinx; that such shapes in a desert are not uncommon; and that resources expended on a trip to Cydonia are very likely to tell us nothing that a quick trip in a cheap Egyption airliner didn't tell me.
TWW
Race and sex are facts of life; religion is a choice, specifically a choice to believe in an explanation of the world around us that hasn't held water for several hundred years.
Religion is a joke in the way that a modern person maintaining that the human frame can not withstand velocities in excess of 30mph would also be a joke.
TWW
Opera's had it for a loooooong time.
TWW
If you mean "renders common IE specific quirks" I don't care; if you mean "The full DOM and all of CSS2" then the programmers are saying version 7.
TWW
TWW
TWW
I'm tempted by the first but not the second; I'm not going to start working for MS and Apple for no pay, thanks.
TWW
How many kids have lightsabers? How many have heads?
Try to bear in mind that this cut is to allow really, really young children to watch the film.
TWW
After the film came out the stunt coordinator said in an interview that it was the most disapointing stunt of his career because it was the best and no one believed it was real because it was "obviously" impossible!
TWW
TWW
That's fine until Sony have 90% of the TV market and then start saying to retailers: "Sell our Trinitrons with toasters or we stop supplying you altogether (good luck in the 10% of the market we don't yet own)". At that point (the abuse of the legally obtained monopoly) the toaster makers have a legitimate complaint.
It is the element of force/extortion/blackmail that makes MS a criminal organisation.
TWW
TWW
And some kids get so into drink by the time they're 15 that if they don't get into re-hab they end up dead. Try to at least come close to a rational argument.
TWW
Microtel winmodems work fine in Linux.
Maybe someone should have investigated this before raising a stink about it.
Some do, the specific one in the machines did not, as was mentioned in the original review and discussion below it.
Maybe you should have investigated this before raising a stink about it.
TWW
This is a news site for "Nerds", within that context it seemed a fair comment. In a Windows newsgroup I wouldn't have mentioned it.
TWW
TWW