Well, I tend to agree that a majority of P2P traffic is piracy...but I only hope people don't throw the baby out with the bathwater in this issue.
Bittorrent and other P2P software DOES have a legit use in the "real" world. As I'm sure you know more and more companies are using this style of download to distribute software without having to pony up a vast amount of bandwidth they may or may not have. But as I said, I'm sure you already know this.
Solutions? I know that your main rant in this series of posts is aimed mainly at the hypocrisy of Slashdot and the others that try to justify piracy, but is there a solution to all this?
This isn't the case and you know it. I don't spew vitriolic hatred for companies...just the RIAA ones.
I'm not sure how much you know about the recording industry, but these people do NOT work incredibly hard. What they did was create the "company store" atmosphere that the mining companies did with the miners. The actual artists are pretty much slaves to these companies after they sign their contracts. Do you know how much the average recording artist makes off of a average CD? It's the ARTISTS that work incredibly hard and face the pressures day, day out and they usually end up owing the company money for their CD.
Case in point, remember a girl group called TLC? They had a number one hit a few years ago with "Don't Go Chasing Waterfalls". The song was everywhere, won awards, millions of CDs were sold. Care to take a guess on how much money they made for those millions of CD's sold? After paying off the company for recording time, the actual printing and distribution of the CD's etc etc(yes, the artists pay for all this) they were left with 50,000 dollars each that year. In TLC's case, nearly a year after the group sold 10 million copies of "CrazySexyCool," they filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Their record company didn't lift a finger and they were on to their next conquest.
Also, do I work for free? No. Have I changed jobs to make more money? No, actually the opposite, I moved to a different part of the country and took a substantial cut in pay. I'm actually below the poverty line and yes, I'm barely subsisting...though not in a cave. I still manage to donate my time and what little cash I have left over after bills (bills meaning electricity, heat and food...no car payments, no cable tv, no credit cards) to the community. Yet, I'm very happy.
Also, I said I'd rather steal than line the pockets of these guys...but I never said I'd actually do that. I'd rather make my own music...though some would question if it were indeed music.
And I don't eat Doritos. Any other assumptions you'd like to make about me?
Kenneth Hertz, partner at Goldring Hertz and Lichtenstein LLP, a law firm representing major recording industry artists said "What if Jobs says 39 cents or 29 cents per download - what then? The industry can say, OK we'll cut him of - very few people buy music from digital downloads... [Jobs] will figure out another model... The industry got together and said 'We don't want another MTV'. Well, now we've got another MTV, in Apple. And we have to deal with it."
So, I have to ask...if very few people buy music from digital downloads according to this suit, then what the FUCK do these guys care what price Apple sells their music at? This is greed. Pure greed. The recording industry is so used to making reams of cash without doing any of the actual work that they're lashing out when someone tries to take that away from them.
And then to turn around and say they want a cut of the profits from the physical iPods themselves shows they have HUGE balls too. I mean, do they get a cut from every CD player sold that plays their music?
Yes, I'd rather blatantly steal all the music from here to the end of my life then have to pay anything to the bastards that run these companies. I'm sorry to the artists but lets face it, they only see a 10th of the actual cash these companies are actually raking in.
Or better yet, I won't even listen to music anymore. I'm so pissed off and disenchanted with the whole industry I'll just sit and listen to the birds outside my window...or laugh like a brook as it trips and falls over stones on it's way. Sorry, was channeling "Sound of Music" there....DAMN!
That's one of the main reasons I left California. I'll never go back. I'm living in a part of the country where a 95k house is a decent house and the cost of living is way low. Yes, I had to give up my job out there, but starting fresh was what I needed. I'm not busting my ass anymore just trying to keep my head above the mortgage and bills. Some people enjoy working 12 hour days...they're always on the GO GO GO. I'm not one of those people.
But I'm now living in one of those states that wants to start charging for internet sales and it sucks! The only thing is, I'm out in a VERY small town now and most of my big-ticket items (like the new computer I just built) are all done via internet companies like Newegg. It's so much easier and cheaper to go with Newegg...and in my case it's the ONLY solution. Now I got to pay Michigan a slice of something they had no hand in at all? Screw that!
I'm always amazed when an anniversary of a game is talked about. I mean, it's only been 5 years ago when this came out? It seems like about 10 years at least!
I have to admit "Manos: The Hands of Fate" is almost unwatchable even when watching it through MST3K...even though that remains my favorite MST3K of all time.
I stand corrected and I apologize for my idiocy. You've shown me where and how to find out more about this and I will certainly look all this up.
Yes, I was a douchebag...again my attitude sucked and I attacked you for no good reason and you're right, I had no idea what I was talking about. It's just that I consider myself a major computer geek but I had never looked into this side of computers, networking and such...ever. Which is painfully obvious. It pissed me off I suppose that all this bullshit was out there and I never even considered any of it. And quite frankly it's scary.
But anyway, again I'm sorry for being an asshole. Didn't mean to get someone so pissed off over something as silly as my dumb questions.
This log file shows nothing. Not a thing. Shows when a program was launched and when the system was logged in and out. That's it. Doesn't show anything about when a file was created and why or where. Actually, nothing in the event viewer shows anything like this.
Also, my ISP has no such logs on everything I've ever done on the internet. I think you're a tad paranoid here. This isn't me being naive either. If you're right, then they would have a log on everything that everyone has ever done anywhere in the world, right? Yeah...do you listen to Art Bell also? If this were the case, then all the terrorists using the ISPs would be easily caught or at least they could be tracked better. The pedophiles lurking around the net would all be caught just by looking at the logs at the ISPs. I mean, if there ARE logs on all the ISPs then why AREN'T they being used to catch the criminals using them? Even using a proxy would get you caught as there has to be an initial gateway to the internet which would be going through this ISP log right? Really, think about this. And also, what would these phantom logs contain? Every bit that has ever been downloaded? At most it would be that it connected here at this time. And that would help...how? If the stream was encrypted during any transfer...the ISP couldn't fathom WHAT was being accessed..especially through a bittorrent download. Bittorrent downloads...well, the old way as you can do it all anonymously now...would show the people connected and if someone went in on a download and copied all the peers and their addresses, then yes that would be a way to track down who was downloading what.
But as far as an ISP knowing what I'm downloading through bittorrent, they just know a huge amount of data is being downloaded on certain ports...but there is no way they could say "that's Simpsons data....ok that there is Knoppix data...". etc etc. I mean, come on...
You must be kidding me. There are logs all over your box listing EXACTLY where something came from. If you think their aren't, you are naive.
Ok, where? Tell me where these phantom logs are that lists exactly where something comes from. Inform the naive of us out here that don't know where these phantom logs are that list something copied from a floppy or CD or anywhere else. These logs must be huge if it lists everything over the life of the computer. But hey, I'm naive. So tell me where they are so I could just read them. And this isn't me getting "huffy". lol.
Dude, almost everyone here uses BT to download stuff, and they just assume you do too.
Dude, don't assume anything. But I'll admit it was my fault in my original post that I didn't go out of my way to say I was just talking about downloading in general and not using bittorrent.
Again, I didn't say anything about bittorrent even though the main article itself does. I just said downloading in general. Naturally using the bittorrent for a download would also mean you're uploading. But downloading from a website would just be pure downloading only.
Illegal and punished how? Is it illegal to not watch the commercials from a free broadcast? Where do the copyright holders say how and when I can watch these free broadcast? If it's coming free over the air, and I copy that free over the air broadcast onto my hard drive without the commercials, how is any of that different than a download of a free broadcast without the commercials? You also wouldn't be able to tell the difference if someone came to look at your hard drive on HOW you got that there. Again, do the copyright holders give you the right to watch the program without watching the commercials.
Also, read again my post. Did I mention ANYWHERE about bittorrent? I just said downloads in general. Before starting your righteous indignation, try reading beforehand.
OK, not trying to justify anything here, but where does all the law stand on an issue like this?
What if I were to download "The Simpsons" from last nights free broadcast? I'm not uploading anything, just downloading and watching it, then deleting it after I watch it. Can I be arrested for this or is it copyright violations? I'm not selling anything. I'm not causing the lost revinue from watching this. No, even though the commercials are not on the download, it still doesn't matter as I never watch commercials anyway. If I were to watch it on TV and don't watch the commercials, can I be arrested for that then? Is that copyright violation also? What if I were to tape the show with a VCR, but not the commercials...wouldn't this also be exactly like just downloading the show? I still have the end product. The Simpsons from last night. What if I were to record the show from last night and put it on my HD. Again, the exact same result. I would have the exact same show on my HD without commercials wither I downloaded it or taped it. And how could they prove it otherwise? Unless of course I were to take the show I recorded and then distributed it.
This is all a grey area here. Is this illegal like stealing a car and downloaders should go to jail, or is it copyright violation and downloaders should just be made to feel guilty (or go to jail) or is it really nothing? Again, I'm not trying to justify anything here...just want to know where the law stands on people that record a free show vs downloading the exact same free show...both WITHOUT commercials. If some say that the it's the commercials that make it a free show then I suppose I should be hauled off for jail for YEARS of not watching the commericals.
Exactly...what do we do? We vote, but as I voted in the last election, the guy I was voting against still won. OK...now what? I've written to both my congressmen and senators about topics like the National ID and things like this...they write back to me with a form letter stating that they too are concerned, yet they never say one way or another if they're for or against anything. Which leads us back to the voting booth which has lead no where in the past.
So what would you suggest we do? Take up arms against our government? The only arms I have are the ones attached to my shoulders and possibly a pointed stick. And sorry, I don't want to be detained down in Guantanamo Bay.
yes, and that's nice too. but the Google Toolbar offers much more than just that. like the highlighting of the search terms, the very clickable search buttons (like for searching just news, or pictures, or a site).
I do like Opera and the things that Firefox has now were pretty much introduced first on Opera...I just wish they had a few little things that Firefox has now.
I do like Opera, but it's missing the two main features I love about Firefox. Google Toolbar and Adblock. I usually don't use Adblock all that much cause I'm one of those people that actually click on ads on web pages I use...you know, to give them a little income and as a way of a "thank you". But some places the ads are just way out of control so Adblock comes in handy.
But there's no way I could function without the Google Toolbar now. I use it all the time, not to mention the built in spell checker. If Opera had this one little feature alone I'd think about switching.
Maybe i'm doing something wrong here, but where is the bittorrent support? I see a Opera 8.1 Preview build 7685 that came out in July that has bittorrent, but the 8.5 version build 7700 that I just downloaded doesn't have anything referenced to bittorrent.
Yes, if Microsoft personally gave me 100 million dollars then I would switch to Vista, totally turn my back on Linux and all other operating systems and be a poster-boy for everything Microsoft.
Hell, give me 10,000 bucks and I'd do it. But that's about the lowest I'd accept...anything lower and it just wouldn't be worth it. OH, and also have a provision that I could opt-out after a year.
What's a "fansub"? You mean the movie that's coming out in November that was leaked?
I saw it. THIS is the movie they should have released as the first Final Fantasy movie...not that "Spirits Within". I mean, that was an OK movie, but hardly a Final Fantasy movie.
Advent Children was the better movie AND it was Final Fantasy through and through.
Gentoo in 12 minutes was a huge tip-off...as was calling it "the gentoo". But the parent was misguided in thinking that Linux is as easy to install as Windows. Don't get me wrong, I love Linux and use it everyday, but it's still not as easy to install and get every piece of hardware working. But slowly it IS getting better and better.
Oh I agree...I never used the Linux before and I heard that the Gentoo linux is kinda cool and powerful, so I just put in the CD and it pretty much installed itself! VERY easy to install and only took like 12 minutes to install.
And everything was plug and play too. Just plug in a printer and it instantly saw what it was and set it up perfectly!
Yes, Windows is very hard to install. I tried installing that and it took 7 hours just to read the CD and compute my time-zone. What a nightmare!
Kent Brockman: "I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords".
You know...the one about Homer in space and the ant experiment they sent up got broken and there are ants floating around....guess you had to have seen it.
Actually, the first two Spy Kids were great...I too looked at them and said they looked like crap. But having a 10 year old and wanted to see them, I was surprised. They were pretty good.
Now, the 3-D stuff is just bad. Any movie that all of a sudden says "we're going to film this in 3-D" instantly gets crappy. Why do they even bother with this gimmick anymore?
Slashdot Mirror
Well, I tend to agree that a majority of P2P traffic is piracy...but I only hope people don't throw the baby out with the bathwater in this issue.
Bittorrent and other P2P software DOES have a legit use in the "real" world. As I'm sure you know more and more companies are using this style of download to distribute software without having to pony up a vast amount of bandwidth they may or may not have. But as I said, I'm sure you already know this.
Solutions? I know that your main rant in this series of posts is aimed mainly at the hypocrisy of Slashdot and the others that try to justify piracy, but is there a solution to all this?
This isn't the case and you know it. I don't spew vitriolic hatred for companies...just the RIAA ones.
I'm not sure how much you know about the recording industry, but these people do NOT work incredibly hard. What they did was create the "company store" atmosphere that the mining companies did with the miners. The actual artists are pretty much slaves to these companies after they sign their contracts. Do you know how much the average recording artist makes off of a average CD? It's the ARTISTS that work incredibly hard and face the pressures day, day out and they usually end up owing the company money for their CD.
Case in point, remember a girl group called TLC? They had a number one hit a few years ago with "Don't Go Chasing Waterfalls". The song was everywhere, won awards, millions of CDs were sold. Care to take a guess on how much money they made for those millions of CD's sold? After paying off the company for recording time, the actual printing and distribution of the CD's etc etc(yes, the artists pay for all this) they were left with 50,000 dollars each that year. In TLC's case, nearly a year after the group sold 10 million copies of "CrazySexyCool," they filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Their record company didn't lift a finger and they were on to their next conquest.
Also, do I work for free? No. Have I changed jobs to make more money? No, actually the opposite, I moved to a different part of the country and took a substantial cut in pay. I'm actually below the poverty line and yes, I'm barely subsisting...though not in a cave. I still manage to donate my time and what little cash I have left over after bills (bills meaning electricity, heat and food...no car payments, no cable tv, no credit cards) to the community. Yet, I'm very happy.
Also, I said I'd rather steal than line the pockets of these guys...but I never said I'd actually do that. I'd rather make my own music...though some would question if it were indeed music.
And I don't eat Doritos. Any other assumptions you'd like to make about me?
Kenneth Hertz, partner at Goldring Hertz and Lichtenstein LLP, a law firm representing major recording industry artists said "What if Jobs says 39 cents or 29 cents per download - what then? The industry can say, OK we'll cut him of - very few people buy music from digital downloads... [Jobs] will figure out another model ... The industry got together and said 'We don't want another MTV'. Well, now we've got another MTV, in Apple. And we have to deal with it."
So, I have to ask...if very few people buy music from digital downloads according to this suit, then what the FUCK do these guys care what price Apple sells their music at? This is greed. Pure greed. The recording industry is so used to making reams of cash without doing any of the actual work that they're lashing out when someone tries to take that away from them.
And then to turn around and say they want a cut of the profits from the physical iPods themselves shows they have HUGE balls too. I mean, do they get a cut from every CD player sold that plays their music?
Yes, I'd rather blatantly steal all the music from here to the end of my life then have to pay anything to the bastards that run these companies. I'm sorry to the artists but lets face it, they only see a 10th of the actual cash these companies are actually raking in.
Or better yet, I won't even listen to music anymore. I'm so pissed off and disenchanted with the whole industry I'll just sit and listen to the birds outside my window...or laugh like a brook as it trips and falls over stones on it's way. Sorry, was channeling "Sound of Music" there....DAMN!
That's one of the main reasons I left California. I'll never go back. I'm living in a part of the country where a 95k house is a decent house and the cost of living is way low. Yes, I had to give up my job out there, but starting fresh was what I needed. I'm not busting my ass anymore just trying to keep my head above the mortgage and bills. Some people enjoy working 12 hour days...they're always on the GO GO GO. I'm not one of those people.
But I'm now living in one of those states that wants to start charging for internet sales and it sucks! The only thing is, I'm out in a VERY small town now and most of my big-ticket items (like the new computer I just built) are all done via internet companies like Newegg. It's so much easier and cheaper to go with Newegg...and in my case it's the ONLY solution. Now I got to pay Michigan a slice of something they had no hand in at all? Screw that!
I'm always amazed when an anniversary of a game is talked about. I mean, it's only been 5 years ago when this came out? It seems like about 10 years at least!
I'm in some sort of time-shift warp or something.
I have to admit "Manos: The Hands of Fate" is almost unwatchable even when watching it through MST3K...even though that remains my favorite MST3K of all time.
I stand corrected and I apologize for my idiocy. You've shown me where and how to find out more about this and I will certainly look all this up.
Yes, I was a douchebag...again my attitude sucked and I attacked you for no good reason and you're right, I had no idea what I was talking about. It's just that I consider myself a major computer geek but I had never looked into this side of computers, networking and such...ever. Which is painfully obvious. It pissed me off I suppose that all this bullshit was out there and I never even considered any of it. And quite frankly it's scary.
But anyway, again I'm sorry for being an asshole. Didn't mean to get someone so pissed off over something as silly as my dumb questions.
This log file shows nothing. Not a thing. Shows when a program was launched and when the system was logged in and out. That's it. Doesn't show anything about when a file was created and why or where. Actually, nothing in the event viewer shows anything like this.
Also, my ISP has no such logs on everything I've ever done on the internet. I think you're a tad paranoid here. This isn't me being naive either. If you're right, then they would have a log on everything that everyone has ever done anywhere in the world, right? Yeah...do you listen to Art Bell also? If this were the case, then all the terrorists using the ISPs would be easily caught or at least they could be tracked better. The pedophiles lurking around the net would all be caught just by looking at the logs at the ISPs. I mean, if there ARE logs on all the ISPs then why AREN'T they being used to catch the criminals using them?
Even using a proxy would get you caught as there has to be an initial gateway to the internet which would be going through this ISP log right? Really, think about this. And also, what would these phantom logs contain? Every bit that has ever been downloaded? At most it would be that it connected here at this time. And that would help...how? If the stream was encrypted during any transfer...the ISP couldn't fathom WHAT was being accessed..especially through a bittorrent download. Bittorrent downloads...well, the old way as you can do it all anonymously now...would show the people connected and if someone went in on a download and copied all the peers and their addresses, then yes that would be a way to track down who was downloading what.
But as far as an ISP knowing what I'm downloading through bittorrent, they just know a huge amount of data is being downloaded on certain ports...but there is no way they could say "that's Simpsons data....ok that there is Knoppix data...". etc etc. I mean, come on...
You must be kidding me. There are logs all over your box listing EXACTLY where something came from. If you think their aren't, you are naive.
Ok, where? Tell me where these phantom logs are that lists exactly where something comes from. Inform the naive of us out here that don't know where these phantom logs are that list something copied from a floppy or CD or anywhere else. These logs must be huge if it lists everything over the life of the computer. But hey, I'm naive. So tell me where they are so I could just read them. And this isn't me getting "huffy". lol.
Dude, almost everyone here uses BT to download stuff, and they just assume you do too.
Dude, don't assume anything. But I'll admit it was my fault in my original post that I didn't go out of my way to say I was just talking about downloading in general and not using bittorrent.
Again, I didn't say anything about bittorrent even though the main article itself does. I just said downloading in general. Naturally using the bittorrent for a download would also mean you're uploading. But downloading from a website would just be pure downloading only.
Illegal and punished how? Is it illegal to not watch the commercials from a free broadcast? Where do the copyright holders say how and when I can watch these free broadcast? If it's coming free over the air, and I copy that free over the air broadcast onto my hard drive without the commercials, how is any of that different than a download of a free broadcast without the commercials? You also wouldn't be able to tell the difference if someone came to look at your hard drive on HOW you got that there. Again, do the copyright holders give you the right to watch the program without watching the commercials.
Also, read again my post. Did I mention ANYWHERE about bittorrent? I just said downloads in general. Before starting your righteous indignation, try reading beforehand.
Didn't say anything about bittorrent. Just said downloading.
OK, not trying to justify anything here, but where does all the law stand on an issue like this?
What if I were to download "The Simpsons" from last nights free broadcast? I'm not uploading anything, just downloading and watching it, then deleting it after I watch it. Can I be arrested for this or is it copyright violations? I'm not selling anything. I'm not causing the lost revinue from watching this. No, even though the commercials are not on the download, it still doesn't matter as I never watch commercials anyway. If I were to watch it on TV and don't watch the commercials, can I be arrested for that then? Is that copyright violation also? What if I were to tape the show with a VCR, but not the commercials...wouldn't this also be exactly like just downloading the show? I still have the end product. The Simpsons from last night. What if I were to record the show from last night and put it on my HD. Again, the exact same result. I would have the exact same show on my HD without commercials wither I downloaded it or taped it. And how could they prove it otherwise? Unless of course I were to take the show I recorded and then distributed it.
This is all a grey area here. Is this illegal like stealing a car and downloaders should go to jail, or is it copyright violation and downloaders should just be made to feel guilty (or go to jail) or is it really nothing? Again, I'm not trying to justify anything here...just want to know where the law stands on people that record a free show vs downloading the exact same free show...both WITHOUT commercials. If some say that the it's the commercials that make it a free show then I suppose I should be hauled off for jail for YEARS of not watching the commericals.
Exactly...what do we do? We vote, but as I voted in the last election, the guy I was voting against still won. OK...now what? I've written to both my congressmen and senators about topics like the National ID and things like this...they write back to me with a form letter stating that they too are concerned, yet they never say one way or another if they're for or against anything. Which leads us back to the voting booth which has lead no where in the past.
So what would you suggest we do? Take up arms against our government? The only arms I have are the ones attached to my shoulders and possibly a pointed stick. And sorry, I don't want to be detained down in Guantanamo Bay.
yes, and that's nice too. but the Google Toolbar offers much more than just that. like the highlighting of the search terms, the very clickable search buttons (like for searching just news, or pictures, or a site).
I do like Opera and the things that Firefox has now were pretty much introduced first on Opera...I just wish they had a few little things that Firefox has now.
I do like Opera, but it's missing the two main features I love about Firefox. Google Toolbar and Adblock. I usually don't use Adblock all that much cause I'm one of those people that actually click on ads on web pages I use...you know, to give them a little income and as a way of a "thank you". But some places the ads are just way out of control so Adblock comes in handy.
But there's no way I could function without the Google Toolbar now. I use it all the time, not to mention the built in spell checker. If Opera had this one little feature alone I'd think about switching.
Maybe i'm doing something wrong here, but where is the bittorrent support? I see a Opera 8.1 Preview build 7685 that came out in July that has bittorrent, but the 8.5 version build 7700 that I just downloaded doesn't have anything referenced to bittorrent.
Yes, if Microsoft personally gave me 100 million dollars then I would switch to Vista, totally turn my back on Linux and all other operating systems and be a poster-boy for everything Microsoft.
Hell, give me 10,000 bucks and I'd do it. But that's about the lowest I'd accept...anything lower and it just wouldn't be worth it. OH, and also have a provision that I could opt-out after a year.
I'll wait by my phone now for Microsofts call.
I submitted this story days ago, with more links and more information too.
Guess one of the other editors didn't think it was that important. Should have waited until Zonks shift was going.
But it's good that it finally made it to Slashdot as I think this is a very interesting story and use of internet technology.
AH...now I know! Thanks.
Who says you don't learn anything from Slashdot.
What's a "fansub"? You mean the movie that's coming out in November that was leaked?
I saw it. THIS is the movie they should have released as the first Final Fantasy movie...not that "Spirits Within". I mean, that was an OK movie, but hardly a Final Fantasy movie.
Advent Children was the better movie AND it was Final Fantasy through and through.
Gentoo in 12 minutes was a huge tip-off...as was calling it "the gentoo". But the parent was misguided in thinking that Linux is as easy to install as Windows. Don't get me wrong, I love Linux and use it everyday, but it's still not as easy to install and get every piece of hardware working. But slowly it IS getting better and better.
Oh I agree...I never used the Linux before and I heard that the Gentoo linux is kinda cool and powerful, so I just put in the CD and it pretty much installed itself! VERY easy to install and only took like 12 minutes to install.
And everything was plug and play too. Just plug in a printer and it instantly saw what it was and set it up perfectly!
Yes, Windows is very hard to install. I tried installing that and it took 7 hours just to read the CD and compute my time-zone. What a nightmare!
Kent Brockman: "I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords".
You know...the one about Homer in space and the ant experiment they sent up got broken and there are ants floating around....guess you had to have seen it.
Actually, the first two Spy Kids were great...I too looked at them and said they looked like crap. But having a 10 year old and wanted to see them, I was surprised. They were pretty good.
Now, the 3-D stuff is just bad. Any movie that all of a sudden says "we're going to film this in 3-D" instantly gets crappy. Why do they even bother with this gimmick anymore?