Well, Wine has been progressed lately quite nicely..
I have just finished to test some apps on it today - here's whats going on...
1. Quicktime 5 - it runs, but screen gets black and some flashes and the TCP/IP stack implementation of wine is not complete - so no streaming, but playing sorenson based coded files plays ok..
If you want to run your office apps and have Windows 95/98/98SE/ME (not sure about Win ME - anyone?) - then use Win4Lin 3.0
If your app requires even a single call to any DirectX stuff (like full-screen with Direct Draw) - then it won't run on Win4Lin.
Win4Lin run "normal" apps (that doesn't requires DirectX) much faster then VMWare.
Now - if you want to run Windows NT/2000/XP or Another Operating system (Linux) then the only option you have is VMWare - but you'll need lots of memory (which is cheap), and a strong processor. VMWare however - is slower compared to Win4Lin but it runs much more software.
Now - I didn't see they mention it - but if you need to run MULTIPLE VMWare sessions at once, with scripting support (VM1 turns on VM2 to do XYZ and then turns of VM2 etc...) - then you'll need VMWare GSX which got a pretty big price tag - $2500
If you want to run some serious numbers of VM's at once (15,20,30 etc) - then you'll need VMWare ESX - which is an entirly different product (it's bootable VMWare without any hosting OS) - a really strong machine (4 processors minimum), tons of memory (gigabytes), and very fast hard drives and network. You'll get a special console which is Redhat 6.2 + perl scripts to do all the maintaining stuff - and for each user you'll need to install special KVM software (keyboard, video, mouse) - price tag - $11.200 + precentages..
According to the latest IDC pre-released report - Worldwide IT spending on Linux is increasing from 3% to 9% by 2002..
So? Is Linux loosing ground? I hardly think so...
Do your homework before you past such a crap! most Unix shop that used to work with SCO are moving to Linux. Why? because the client doesn't want to pay the $1000 license price tag if he can spend $60 on RedHat which have 70% market share..
So when can I expect to see a DVD player written in Java? CD-R recording program maybe? Office suite? (no, Office suite that runs FAST!)
Get real - there are some applications that writing them in Java is perfectly ok, but I can hardly see most of the applications that I and many other using daily - are being written in Java...
If I recall correctly - PatriotSoft will issue Solaris binaries RSN
Re:Ok, user friendly with no installer?
on
KDE 2.2 Released
·
· Score: 2
I belive that Redhat officially supports Gnome from top to bottom (look at the Redhat Anaconda Installer, up2date etc) - they also pay some Gnome and GTK developers... Thats - in USA..
On the other side of the world - in Europe, the picture is different. KDE is very popular in Europe (most KDE developers are from Europe and outside USA) and Redhat DOES help a bit. Bero (who is one of their employees) does package the KDE for Redhat for releases. Redhat did load some hardware for the KDE team in LinuxTag - so it's not exactly black & white scenario..
This option is available long time ago - enabled as default for example in the K menu..
Re:Backwards compatibility
on
KDE 2.2 Released
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
Well - this point was very crucial in the decision to move to developing KDE 3.0
Most of KDE will stay the same, and QT is around 90% source compatible (not binary compatible)..
So basically - moving an application from KDE 2 to KDE 3 shouldn't take more then a few tweaks.
Lars from TrollTech has been playing for fun in ported the entire KDE libraries from QT 2.X to 3.0 beta in a few hours - so if few hours takes to move something this big - then it shouldn't take for an avrage programmer more then an hour or so..
You should also remember - by the time that KDE 3.0 will be out - most of the distributions will move from GCC 2.9X to 3.0.X or 3.1 (if everything goes according to the GCC team) - so the developers will have to do some work - regardless of KDE or Gnome applications...
Just few words about this release (and future road-map)..
This is the final major version of KDE 2.2 - expect KDE 2.2.1 next month with all the last-minute bug fixes (without any new features), and translations update..
The next major version is going to be KDE 3.0 that will be out at around January 2002 featuring QT 3.0.x (with all the QT 3 features), and some changes in the backend, among other things. Most of KDE will be ported from 2.2 to 3.0. SO people who want to either developer QT or KDE applications might want to download QT 3 snapshot and play with it. It's got some bugs - but it's pretty stable.
People who would like to contribute to the KDE development are most welcome to join - you don't have to be a C++ programmer in order to contribute - Graphics artists, GUI guru's, HTML experts and others are more then welcome to join the big KDE famility of developers..
I thin it's also a good time for you - the reader/user to post what do you want to be changed in KDE? what do u hate about KDE? what do you like? What do you think should be improved? What do you think should be removed? most of the KDE developers read slashdot - so maybe your request will be fullfilled - you never know...
As for other platforms - expect KDE 2.2 to be available within days for Solaris (X86 & Sparc), HP/UX, SGI's Irix, IBM AIX, and others..
Enjoy the release people - lots of work has been done on this one - and you get as a bonus %30-%50 speed increase..
Seriously though, I was administrating a company which all users had roaming profile - and it's a PAIN in the ass if a user move from one machine to another - you simple have to wait until of his desktop will be copied from the server - sometimes is few megabyes, but some heavy users have gigabytes of data to move...
On Linux/Unix it's different - nfs mount, finished...
Back then IBM asked TI, Motorola, Intel and others if they can supply to them in big quantities their processor..
Motorola couldn't (they didn't finish back then their 68000 processor if I'm not mistaken), same for TI.
Intel had promised to supply IBM their processor, and signed AMD as their 2nd tier contractor to supply processors to IBM (boy, I'm sure some Intel execs are feeling really sorry for this now)..
Dave Cutler and other guys wrote the so called "micro-kernel" (800K micro-kernel, oy), but there are tons of other parts which have been took from OS/2 - like the file system....
Remember - Until version NT 3.51 (including) - the GUI wasn't part of the NT itself, as it was a "plugin" (although more tied then X for example), and I imagine that if Dave would have known that the stuff he's writing is going to be glued mandatory to a GUI - I don't think he would have work there (well, he does hate GUI's if I read some articles about him correctly).
You call Windows 98 "next generation"? umm, how exactly is it next generation? because with Windows 98 they stuck you with MSIE 4 if u wanted or not, plus small modification - thats a next generation??
Regarding your comments about MS Windows 1 & 2 - Sorry Sir, you're wrong..
There was a product called DesQView (and a bit later - DesQView/X) that offered what MS tried to offer back then - a windows enviroment. DesQView did it with console (no graphics, or simple graphics), and DesQView/X - which was using back then a port of X11R4 X windows)...
It was EXACTLY the same few years later when Microsoft released Windows NT 3.1 and then 3.5X for other then X86 processors.. You could have get some apps at the beginning (I think I've seeb MS Word 6 for Alpha back then), but almost no other vendors wrote software for those non X86 NT version..
XFree's Xinerama extension is fully supported - no more windows right between your monitors, and it works quite nicely (tested on my G400 + 2 20" monitors on 1280x1024)...
Of course - it really depends if your packager compiled the KDE with Xinerama or without it...
From my experience (only tried it on Sun Ultra 60) - Their KDE packages are AWESOME!
You can find also the packages for KDE for HP/UX, IRIX, AIX, and Tru64 among other platforms that KDE supports (directly and indirectly) [but not on the above ftp site]
Here is an example - at my previous work I had to install them some sort of developer enviroment for the developers - and since I use personally KDE all the time - I thought, what the heck - and installed KDE 2.1 and KDevelop...
All the developers loved it. Just the CEO asked me where did I get a version of Visual Studio for Linux and do we have license for this. Guess what my answer was...;)
I've seen it on lots of cases, talking to commercial companies who develop some Linux solutions. Most of them use KDevelop even for developing kernel modules!...
From time to time Redhat adds people to their Beta testing cycle (and you get all the extra's - you get the CD's shipped internationally over express Air-Mail, you get the final version in a box set, etc) - specially if you are a hardware software vendor, or if you register while the beta period is open...
If you are coming from Windows with zero knowledge of Linux - them you might try Mandrake at first. Mandrake is much better suited to people who don't know linux and don't want to mess with the command line...
Now - in terms of usability tests - both GNOME and KDE are doing usability tests. Sun did it for GNOME and the KDE team did look at the Sun results and they did their own on LinuxTag in europe and keep doing so in shows - if you're going to LinuxWorld - then you're welcome to visit the KDE booth and make your remarks - comments are always welcome.
As for your comment "can't see the forest for the trees" - I know exactly what you mean, been there before - and I know lots of others did - and they give advice here and there about usability.
You are of course always welcome to join KDE or GNOME team and give advice or a hint or participate in the desktop enviroment development - people that can point out some wrong GUI decision are always welcome - as long as they are willing to EXPLAIN what is wrong and suggest an alternative (programming knowledge is not necessary)
Slashdot Mirror
Well, Wine has been progressed lately quite nicely..
I have just finished to test some apps on it today - here's whats going on...
1. Quicktime 5 - it runs, but screen gets black and some flashes and the TCP/IP stack implementation of wine is not complete - so no streaming, but playing sorenson based coded files plays ok..
2. Adobe Page Maker 6.5 (trial version) - runs perfectly.
3. Windows Media 6.4 - plays files and streams, but fail to download & install new codecs.
so, it's progressing..
The conclusion is pretty simple..
If you want to run your office apps and have Windows 95/98/98SE/ME (not sure about Win ME - anyone?) - then use Win4Lin 3.0
If your app requires even a single call to any DirectX stuff (like full-screen with Direct Draw) - then it won't run on Win4Lin.
Win4Lin run "normal" apps (that doesn't requires DirectX) much faster then VMWare.
Now - if you want to run Windows NT/2000/XP or Another Operating system (Linux) then the only option you have is VMWare - but you'll need lots of memory (which is cheap), and a strong processor. VMWare however - is slower compared to Win4Lin but it runs much more software.
Now - I didn't see they mention it - but if you need to run MULTIPLE VMWare sessions at once, with scripting support (VM1 turns on VM2 to do XYZ and then turns of VM2 etc...) - then you'll need VMWare GSX which got a pretty big price tag - $2500
If you want to run some serious numbers of VM's at once (15,20,30 etc) - then you'll need VMWare ESX - which is an entirly different product (it's bootable VMWare without any hosting OS) - a really strong machine (4 processors minimum), tons of memory (gigabytes), and very fast hard drives and network. You'll get a special console which is Redhat 6.2 + perl scripts to do all the maintaining stuff - and for each user you'll need to install special KVM software (keyboard, video, mouse) - price tag - $11.200 + precentages..
really? umm...
According to the latest IDC pre-released report - Worldwide IT spending on Linux is increasing from 3% to 9% by 2002..
So? Is Linux loosing ground? I hardly think so...
Do your homework before you past such a crap! most Unix shop that used to work with SCO are moving to Linux. Why? because the client doesn't want to pay the $1000 license price tag if he can spend $60 on RedHat which have 70% market share..
So when can I expect to see a DVD player written in Java? CD-R recording program maybe? Office suite? (no, Office suite that runs FAST!)
Get real - there are some applications that writing them in Java is perfectly ok, but I can hardly see most of the applications that I and many other using daily - are being written in Java...
If I recall correctly - PatriotSoft will issue Solaris binaries RSN
On the other side of the world - in Europe, the picture is different. KDE is very popular in Europe (most KDE developers are from Europe and outside USA) and Redhat DOES help a bit. Bero (who is one of their employees) does package the KDE for Redhat for releases. Redhat did load some hardware for the KDE team in LinuxTag - so it's not exactly black & white scenario..
You haven't tried KDE for a long time - did you?
This option is available long time ago - enabled as default for example in the K menu..
Well - this point was very crucial in the decision to move to developing KDE 3.0
Most of KDE will stay the same, and QT is around 90% source compatible (not binary compatible)..
So basically - moving an application from KDE 2 to KDE 3 shouldn't take more then a few tweaks.
Lars from TrollTech has been playing for fun in ported the entire KDE libraries from QT 2.X to 3.0 beta in a few hours - so if few hours takes to move something this big - then it shouldn't take for an avrage programmer more then an hour or so..
You should also remember - by the time that KDE 3.0 will be out - most of the distributions will move from GCC 2.9X to 3.0.X or 3.1 (if everything goes according to the GCC team) - so the developers will have to do some work - regardless of KDE or Gnome applications...
Hi people,
Just few words about this release (and future road-map)..
This is the final major version of KDE 2.2 - expect KDE 2.2.1 next month with all the last-minute bug fixes (without any new features), and translations update..
The next major version is going to be KDE 3.0 that will be out at around January 2002 featuring QT 3.0.x (with all the QT 3 features), and some changes in the backend, among other things. Most of KDE will be ported from 2.2 to 3.0. SO people who want to either developer QT or KDE applications might want to download QT 3 snapshot and play with it. It's got some bugs - but it's pretty stable.
People who would like to contribute to the KDE development are most welcome to join - you don't have to be a C++ programmer in order to contribute - Graphics artists, GUI guru's, HTML experts and others are more then welcome to join the big KDE famility of developers..
I thin it's also a good time for you - the reader/user to post what do you want to be changed in KDE? what do u hate about KDE? what do you like? What do you think should be improved? What do you think should be removed? most of the KDE developers read slashdot - so maybe your request will be fullfilled - you never know...
As for other platforms - expect KDE 2.2 to be available within days for Solaris (X86 & Sparc), HP/UX, SGI's Irix, IBM AIX, and others..
Enjoy the release people - lots of work has been done on this one - and you get as a bonus %30-%50 speed increase..
Umm, and what do u call Interix? they bought them last year...
Roaming profile... oh no, deja-vu.. nightmares...
Seriously though, I was administrating a company which all users had roaming profile - and it's a PAIN in the ass if a user move from one machine to another - you simple have to wait until of his desktop will be copied from the server - sometimes is few megabyes, but some heavy users have gigabytes of data to move...
On Linux/Unix it's different - nfs mount, finished...
Umm, worst processor?
Technically speaking? you damn right...
But do u know WHY they chose it? it's simple..
Back then IBM asked TI, Motorola, Intel and others if they can supply to them in big quantities their processor..
Motorola couldn't (they didn't finish back then their 68000 processor if I'm not mistaken), same for TI.
Intel had promised to supply IBM their processor, and signed AMD as their 2nd tier contractor to supply processors to IBM (boy, I'm sure some Intel execs are feeling really sorry for this now)..
I think he was talking Unix was costs $2,500 for SCO Unix..
Anyone remember the day when a TCP/IP Stack license for a SINGLE use was costing $500?
Coherenet was nice thing, but both Coherenet and SCO were crushed by *BSD and Linux (Linux have more of this "blame")
Umm, you both actually right...
Dave Cutler and other guys wrote the so called "micro-kernel" (800K micro-kernel, oy), but there are tons of other parts which have been took from OS/2 - like the file system....
Remember - Until version NT 3.51 (including) - the GUI wasn't part of the NT itself, as it was a "plugin" (although more tied then X for example), and I imagine that if Dave would have known that the stuff he's writing is going to be glued mandatory to a GUI - I don't think he would have work there (well, he does hate GUI's if I read some articles about him correctly).
MS Payed them $20 million, and told them they would give them a cut for each copy sold...
... hmm.... I lost my calculator around...
A cut from $0
Forgot one more thing...
You call Windows 98 "next generation"? umm, how exactly is it next generation? because with Windows 98 they stuck you with MSIE 4 if u wanted or not, plus small modification - thats a next generation??
Sorry, not on my (and tons of people) book
Regarding your comments about MS Windows 1 & 2 - Sorry Sir, you're wrong..
There was a product called DesQView (and a bit later - DesQView/X) that offered what MS tried to offer back then - a windows enviroment. DesQView did it with console (no graphics, or simple graphics), and DesQView/X - which was using back then a port of X11R4 X windows)...
It was EXACTLY the same few years later when Microsoft released Windows NT 3.1 and then 3.5X for other then X86 processors.. You could have get some apps at the beginning (I think I've seeb MS Word 6 for Alpha back then), but almost no other vendors wrote software for those non X86 NT version..
Well, I had an IBM XT
No source code for BIOS - I can tell you that for sure.
On MainFrame it was another story - you got some source code, but of course - not to your entire system
Hi Daryll,
Could you give more details about the Linux with PS2? impression, speed, stability, apps etc please?
Thanks
XFree's Xinerama extension is fully supported - no more windows right between your monitors, and it works quite nicely (tested on my G400 + 2 20" monitors on 1280x1024)...
Of course - it really depends if your packager compiled the KDE with Xinerama or without it...
umm...
Try at ftp://ftp.patriotsoft.com
From my experience (only tried it on Sun Ultra 60) - Their KDE packages are AWESOME!
You can find also the packages for KDE for HP/UX, IRIX, AIX, and Tru64 among other platforms that KDE supports (directly and indirectly) [but not on the above ftp site]
Umm, not exactly a FUD...
;)
Here is an example - at my previous work I had to install them some sort of developer enviroment for the developers - and since I use personally KDE all the time - I thought, what the heck - and installed KDE 2.1 and KDevelop...
All the developers loved it. Just the CEO asked me where did I get a version of Visual Studio for Linux and do we have license for this. Guess what my answer was...
I've seen it on lots of cases, talking to commercial companies who develop some Linux solutions. Most of them use KDevelop even for developing kernel modules!...
From time to time Redhat adds people to their Beta testing cycle (and you get all the extra's - you get the CD's shipped internationally over express Air-Mail, you get the final version in a box set, etc) - specially if you are a hardware software vendor, or if you register while the beta period is open...
Check it out sometimes: www.beta.redhat.com
ok, I'll answer this...
If you are coming from Windows with zero knowledge of Linux - them you might try Mandrake at first. Mandrake is much better suited to people who don't know linux and don't want to mess with the command line...
Now - in terms of usability tests - both GNOME and KDE are doing usability tests. Sun did it for GNOME and the KDE team did look at the Sun results and they did their own on LinuxTag in europe and keep doing so in shows - if you're going to LinuxWorld - then you're welcome to visit the KDE booth and make your remarks - comments are always welcome.
As for your comment "can't see the forest for the trees" - I know exactly what you mean, been there before - and I know lots of others did - and they give advice here and there about usability.
You are of course always welcome to join KDE or GNOME team and give advice or a hint or participate in the desktop enviroment development - people that can point out some wrong GUI decision are always welcome - as long as they are willing to EXPLAIN what is wrong and suggest an alternative (programming knowledge is not necessary)