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RedHat 7.2 Beta: Roswell
LinuxNews.pl writes: "Few days ago RedHat uploaded new Beta release of their distro -
Roswell. If you want to find out more about it just go to the LinuxNews.pl"
And I won't even make a snide comment about how I haven't run Red Hat in 2 years!
If I like something about the new distro and feel it's beneficial across the board, I go ahead and bite the bullet, and update the other servers, otherwise I just leave them.
If they ain't broke, I don't fix them.
Provide a fail-safe mode on boot that uses framebuffer?
Don't you mean Mandrake 9?
I think they should release Mandrake 10. Odd for unstable releases, Even for "stable" releases. They should have Mdk-42 for the release of Debian 4.
If you don't like the compiler, take a look at http://www.bero.org/gcc296.html and then fix your applications.
;) ).
There are 2 reasons why we're still using 2.96 even though 3.0 has been released.
The first is binary compatibility - gcc 3.0 is not binary compatible with anything else, and we don't break binary compatibility between minor releases.
The second is that 2.96 is way more stable than the 3.0 release (though the current 3.0 branch in CVS works somewhat better). If you've ever tried compiling KDE with gcc 3.0, you'll know what I mean.
I don't think you can come up with any program that uses correct code and doesn't work with gcc 2.96 - if you can, report it so we can fix it. If you can't, don't complain.
The final will include KDE 2.2 and a proper compiler (namely 2.96
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I have done a few sudden power-off tests with XFS-SGI/RedHat and Reiser/Mandrake. I had disk corruption with Reiser once, but once is all it takes to ruin your weekend. XFS has been rock solid. My employer has been using XFS on SGI servers for years without problems. The XFS for Linux site is here: http://oss.sgi.com/projects/xfs/ I have only done one power-off test with ext3 and it performed as it should. I have not done any speed benchmarking between the different types yet.
The difference is he is attaching his comments to the actual news story, where others are posting comments.
Editorials should be left to editorial articles, or to comments about articles.
Yeah apart from on the Slashdot SQL server...
I have never seen so much insecurity and lack of self confidence in a post more that this one.
Dude, listen to yourself, for god's sake you dont have to apologize to the whole world for running redhat. Redhat is one of the most successful linux distributions out there.
Dont listen to those If-you-dont-run-dist-X-then-you-are-gay idiots. LINUX IS LINUX... dists are only a combination of supporting packages for the core system which you can modify as you wish/like.
Why ext3? I thought the only advantage of ext3 over other JFSs available for Linux was that it was easy to convert an ext2 partition to it. Does it provide an option to use ReiserFS, JFS, or XFS? I thought that all three of these offered better performance and more features than ext3.
My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
x.2 of a Redhat version, that means it's finally stable!
Mine also always get rejected. Last one 2001-08-03 07:58:17 Mozilla 0.9.3 released (articles,mozilla) (rejected) But I guess that's normal.
Those of us who are "more experienced in Linux" know that you can get apt for rpm and use it to maintain a Red Hat system.
Actually it just occurred to me that since this is a beta, it's only available in ISO form and paying for it is not even an option. However, it won't be too long before the final version of 7.2 is released and by waiting for it one avoids any problems that might come up before then.
My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
Please RedHat, if you're reading, please make your distributions from the very latest alpha and beta versions, preferrably from developer snapshots done the day of the release. In the past your releases based on beta-quality code were wonderful and I'd hate to see you become another SuSE or Mandrake.
-Kevin
As far as I know, things that won't compile with newer compilers (gcc 2.96..) are due to poor coding technique. Anyone care to give the specifics? Regardless, I do believe at least Mandrake is using the same compiler in drake 8, but I haven't used it, so I may yet again be wrong...
Do other Slashdot readers care to comment on why Redhat didn't include Reiser as a default partition type? My impression, at least, is that Reiser is 'more mainstream' that ext3. (I can't put ext3 down by any means. I've never used it. But I believe that Reiser has been production quality longer.) To be honest, I'm rather disappointed, as are other Suse aficionados at work who have been waiting for Redhat to get a journaling FS in place.
By the way, how many Code Red hits have you all been seeing? I'm up to 309.
Dammitt, why does RH keep updating? It takes hours to download the CD ISOs over a dial-up connection...
Install any of the BSD family and just do CVS updates. It's much leaner and more refined than grabbing entire ISOs.
And as a side benefit you can alro run your Linux-only binaries
god damn it I tell people the ABI has changed and then the next person thinks it has and gets moded up
uuugh
jez this system is stupid if no one mods and just relies on the +2 to get them above the crowd it end up like the jounels with IMPACT factor rateings stupid
regards
john jones
Personally, I congratulate Rob for having the balls to at least be blunt about it instead of the thinly veiled digs routinely employed by the vast majority of you.
Now, whip out the -1, Troll or Offtopic marking for this as fast as possible and sit back satisfied that another dissenting opinion has been eliminated. It's your duty, isn't it?
---
Slashdot: News For Zealots. Stuff That's Hypocritical.
I seem to recall that Mandrake 7.0 or 7.1 would do that with postfix straight out of the box as well. You would have to manually go in and set it up if you wanted anything other than a workstation-only setup. I can't recall off-hand whether it would not listen to the network at all, but I know that it would set itself up as a pretty secure (from spam and other mail issues, including crackers) environment right out of the box. I always liked that a lot about Mandrake back in those days.
So 2.95.x was the only choice they had.
After reformatting my Win2k (backing it up with Ghost to my 2nd hard drive first of course) I installed it. My poor Radeon VE card does not want to run X & something funky is going on with printconf 'cause I can't find any where to specify a driver. Waiting for 7.2......
I totally agree with this. I've been using RH since 6.1, and totally gave up on IRC even though I like helping people solve their problems in my spare time (if I can help!)
It seems all the #linux* channels are full of 13yr olds who have somehow managed to get op status and feel it their duty to tell everyone how crap their choice of distro is, when I doubt many of them could even fill out an /etc/hosts file without screwing up!
I recently tried out SuSe 7.2 professional, since I was under the impression it was supposedly far ahead of RH. Perhaps I'm biased, but I found it totally unstable (default "install everything" install)! X would hang, especially if I tried to use Gnome instead of KDE. The network driver would stop working for no apparent reason, Yast2 seems to take forever for even the simplest of tasks (2 minutes to change the IP address - come on, I can do it by hand faster!) This was not a slow machine either (1200mhz Athlon, 256mb). As the dead processes mounted up, I totally lost enthusiasm.
I gave up on SuSe after a day - I like to support the movement by buying distros, but really... I'll never touch SuSe again - in comparison, I've had RH7.1 up and running without a hitch ever since. I'm sure SuSe must work adequately on some machines, and maybe I just had an unusual hardware config (but I doubt it), but I'm guessing it's just that I know RH, and not SuSe...
Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
If you think Taco's an asshole, try being on the receiving end of the amount of crap email he has to reply to every day.
I'd guess not until KDE 2.2 is out - that's going to a really nice improvement on 2.1 (which is pretty nice already). I find 2.1 painful to use :).
Of course, I'm a KDE developer, so I'm biased...
I have never found red-carpet to be particularly painful.
Actually I did meet him at a trade show not long ago. I did find him kind of annoying. It was kind of dissappointing really, since I'm a big fan of Slashdot and a long-time user, I kind of pictured him as a cool guy.
Of course I didn't really get to know him well, maybe deep down he's thoughtful and interesting, but on the surface he was one of those guys who thinks putting everything down is funny and doesn't realize that it's just annoying. (I'm not overly sensitive to put-downs by the way, in the hands of a master they can be very funny, but Rob isn't a master.)
A lot of it might be just immaturity. Maybe in a few years he'll grow into a crazy, but interesting person like Stallman. (Who can also be annoying as hell, but once you get him to stop evangelizing actually has some interesting viewpoints.)
Yeah, I once could rely on Slashbot to provide timely "Stuff that matters."
Now all I find is stories about how Burrito Boy likes to whack off to his Anime Cels.
Sheeesh!
you might as well say.. do they really want to eat?
"I keep looking in the want-ads under 'revolutionary' but there don't seem to be any listings.. "
"Like a madman shooting firebrands or deadly arrows is a man who deceives his neighbor and says, 'I was only joking!'" -- Proverbs 26:18-19
Sometimes the Bible is surprisingly relevant.
(BTW, this comment is not intended as a troll; it's just that few people know the Bible has anything to say about the whole "just kidding" thing. Though I fear I may spark a long offtopic thread anyway. Apologies in advance if such a thread ensues.)
Graham "Teach" Mitchell, computer science teacher, Leander HS
This has o be the funniest post i have ever read. Good Job!
2.4.6 is now included
I am a little worried about that. Kernel 2.4.6 still has some "issues" regarding virtual memory.
The 2.4.7 pre-releases seems to fix that. Do anyone know if theres a chance RedHat will upgrade to 2.4.7 before the final release of 7.2 ?
/Granted, I haven't used it yet, but I have yet to /see or hear any evidence as to why apt-get is so /much better than rpm -Fvh.
Umh, does rpm fetch your package from the server and isntall it for you? It is still a pain in the ass to go download the rpm yourself and worry about whatever depends you might have to go back to the server for. apt-get install package does it all. /(And yes, some of us have *jobs* where we're /well-regarded for specifying closed-source /commercial apps for Linux.)
I work for the same company you do.. we are using debian in our developement and sandbox servers.
I for one would not like to have to wait for Ximian to release yet another format (even though they picked up Redhat 7.0 pretty quick), let alone everyone else. I mean, look how slow the new RPM format picked up.
What exactly is a "journaling" filesystem?
My server
2ms says: "I expect I'll be able to play QuakeIII with Mandrake 8.1" Huh? I've been playing Quake 3 arena since Red Hat 6.2, though it was a bit of work to set up back then. With 7.1 I didn't even have to download any drivers, or tweak any settings - Everything was autodetected during the install, and accelerated 3d worked on my voodoo 3 out of the box, ready to rock and roll!
Redhat is the only way to go if you are actually using Linux in production, IE for actual work. Anyone know what stable NFS is?
Um, your sig. Nothing wrong with the moderation on that. You posted something to a topic you obviously knew nothing about, got it hideously wrong and hey presto.
You whining takes people away from truly bad moderation examples.
Remember, just because the kernel says "flush this to disk" doesn't mean the controller in the disk drive will obey. And as hard drives have 2 and 4 and even 8MB caches which are caching the most recently written stuff (like the journal), there just is no filesystem that can survive crashes well. The drive controllers decide on their own when to flush data to disk AND THERE IS NO WAY TO FORCE THEN NOR TO KNOW WHEN THEY FLUSHED DATA TO DISK! The controllwe will do it whenever it feels like it. People praising reiserfs, ext3, are delluding themselves with proclamations of immunity from corruption.
If you look in the relesase notes, it states that they although the XFree86 version has been boosted to 4.10, they no longer support DRI :(
Does anyone know why they would possibly do this? One of the features of 7.0, was that you could get DRI working out of the box. They even back ported it to a 2.2 kernel so they could do this.
Seems odd to me.
Ok, Cmdr, if *YOU* don't want to make that comment, I will :)
:)
Happily running Debian.. no more rpmfind.net for me
I installed it on a spare box a few days ago. The default filesystem is ext3. It also has migrations tools to convert existing ext2 partitions.
Sound card not detected at install, 'oh, that's easy to fix, run sndconfig at the shell' (what's a shell?), sound card gets detected and finally works (if it can detect it, why didn't it do it when I installed?)
We do autodetect PCI soundcards these days - ISA probing is always dangerous (can crash the machine), that's why we aren't doing that at installation time.
If you're using RHL >= 7.1 with KDE, you have the "kontrol-panel" link on the desktop (if you're not using KDE, install the kdeadmin package and run kontrol-panel manually) - it provides a link to all system configuration tools (including sndconfig).
Or bad x configuration (user error, whatever) that results in the GUI not working.
This is true - but it's all but easy to fix.
The fix that immediately comes to mind is using a framebuffer kernel and running X with the framebuffer driver only - that would get rid of this issue, but it would also get rid of nice features like XAA or DRI - so it's definitely not the right thing to do.
If you have a better suggestion to fix this, please let me know.
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So he has to run Red Hat Linux to be taken seriously? I forgot that Open Source, /., News for Nerds, etc was synonymous with "Red Hat Linux".
Damn. Still no KDE 2.2 beta, just a CVS snapshot (although the snapshot is more recent than the beta). Does anyone else find it a little odd that there are no Redhat packages of KDE 2.2 beta, after ONE MONTH from launch?
KDE only releases source packages. Check the KDE Package Policy for more info. So bitch to whoever is doing the RedHat packages, or to RedHat itself to start doing packages. It's not KDE's problem.
.technomancer
7.1 was just released last month and runs quite well, 7.2 will probably also lag behind the x86 release. I seem to remember someone from RedHat stating that they wouldnt be officially supporting SPARC any more, but would continue to make RedHat available in some for the SPARC.
Does anyone happen to know when we can expect to see Mandrake 8.1? I figure it would have to be pretty soon. I've never looked forward to a release so much as I've been looking forward to 8.1, cuz 8.0 was such a huge improvement over 7.2 even though it was a bit too early for things like XFree86 4.1.x. Can't wait to finally get all the kernel optimizations for AMD and 3-D card drivers that should be in 8.1. I expect I'll be able to play QuakeIII with Mandrake 8.1, which will mean that I can finally go single-boot. I expect it will probably also have KOffice 1.
I guess I won't even make a snide comment about whan an asshole Rob is, then.
You don't have to download all the freakin' ISOs.
So did I. That's Slashdot for ya, fashionably late as always. Thats why I lurk at LinuxToday for recent Linux news.
-- 4 8 15 16 23 42
The only way linux's user base will spread is through the tolerance of newbies. Yes, that means some people will have to put up with some dumb questions (RTFM!), but it pays off in the end.
Actually, any news about a new Redhat for Alpha?
;)
7.1 was released, 7.2 will be. I could tell you the release date, but I'd have to kill you afterwards.
This message is provided under the terms outlined at http://www.bero.org/terms.html
In KDE, it's Konqueror - it's installed by default. (It's the file manager - simply right-click on a file)
This message is provided under the terms outlined at http://www.bero.org/terms.html
- gcc 2.96 is actually more standards compliant than any other version
of gcc released at the time Red Hat made this decision (3.0 is even more compliant, but not as stable) yet).
It may not be "standards compliant" as in "what most others
are shipping", but 2.96 is almost fully ISO C99 and ISO C++ 98
compliant, unlike any previous version of gcc.
- gcc 2.96 has more complete support for C++. Older versions of gcc could
handle only a very limited subset of C++.
Earlier versions of g++ often had problems with templates and other
valid C++ constructs.
- gcc 2.96 generates better, more optimized code.
- gcc 2.96 supports all architectures Red Hat is currently supporting,
including ia64. No other compiler can do this. Having to maintain different
compilers for every different architecture is a development (find a bug, then
fix it 4 times), QA and support nightmare.
- The binary incompatibility issues are not as bad as some people and
companies make you believe.
First of all, they affect dynamically linked C++ code only.
If you don't use C++, you aren't affected. If you use C++ and link statically,
you aren't affected.
If you don't mind depending on a current glibc, you might also want to
link statically to c++ libraries while linking dynamically to glibc and other
C libraries you're using:
g++ -o test test.cc -Wl,-Bstatic -lstdc++ -Wl,-Bdynamic
(Thanks to Pavel Roskin for pointing this
out)
Second, the same issues appear with every major release of gcc
so far. gcc 2.7.x C++ is not binary compatible with gcc 2.8.x. gcc 2.8.x C++
is not binary compatible with egcs 1.0.x. egcs 1.0.x C++ is not binary
compatible with egcs 1.1.x. egcs 1.1.x C++ is not binary compatible with
gcc 2.95. gcc 2.95 C++ is not binary compatible with gcc 3.0.
Besides, it can easily be circumvented. Either link statically, or
simply distribute libstdc++ with your program and install it if necessary.
Since it has a different soname, it can coexist with other libstdc++ versions
without causing any problems.
Red Hat Linux 7 also happens to be the first Linux distributions using
the current version of glibc, 2.2.x. This update is not binary compatible with
older distributions either (unless you update glibc - there's nothing that
prevents you from updating libstdc++ at the same time), so complaining about
gcc's new C++ ABI breaking binary compatibility is pointless. If you want
to distribute something binary-only, link it statically and it will run
everywhere.
Someone has to be the first to take a step like this. If nobody dared
to make a change because nobody else is doing it, we'd all still be using
gcc 1.0, COBOL or ALGOL. No wait, all of those were new at some point...
- Most of gcc 2.96's perceived "bugs" are actually broken code
that older gccs accepted because they were not standards compliant - or, using
an alternative term to express the same thing, buggy.
A C or C++ compiler that doesn't speak the standardized C language is
a bug, not a feature.
In the initial version of gcc 2.96, there were a couple of other bugs.
All known ones have been fixed in the version from updates - and the version
that is in the current beta version of Red Hat Linux. The bugs in the initial
version don't make the whole compiler broken, though. There has never been
a 100% bug free compiler, or any other 100% bug free non-trivial program.
The current version can be downloaded
here.
- gcc 3.0, the current "stable" release (released quite some time
after Red Hat released gcc 2.96-RH), fixes some problems, but introduces many
others - for example, gcc 3.0 can't compile KDE 2.2 beta 1 correctly.
Until the first set of 3.0 updates is released, I still claim 2.96 is
the best compiler yet.
Trolling for GCC 2.96I'm glad to hear that this warning has been added. I maintain an open source random number generator and the generation routine ran incorrectly when compiled with gcc-2.96. Fortunately a user ran the verification tests and figured out that my routines relied on a certain sequence of a[i++]=i evaluations. All the compilers that I had tested with used the same sequence, but the C standard leaves it implementation-dependent.
If a certain program raises these warnings, then it's best to know so it can be fixed. Otherwise it's likely to compile wrong on certain systems.
AlpineR
GNOME 1.4.x.. ... XFree 4.1.x.. nautulus(sp).. mozilla.. new config tools eventually phazing out linuxconf... easy GUI ISP dial tool..
I am running 7.1 right now and except for a few setup issues it is actually pretty good.
Hopefully they'll put mozill 9.3 in or the latest version of mozilla at the time of release...
Only 'flamers' flame!
Argh, you caught us! Of course, 7.2 is actually still 1.0, just with a higher version number so people with fat net connections can brag about having more current stuff.
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Exactly what packages do you need to update that you keep downloading these? Is there something flawed in the kernel? The grab the source and recompile. Is there something wrong with /bin/ls? Don't give in to blind-upgraditis. Know your systems or you're no better than these morons running the IIS servers that got owned by Code Red this week.
Kernel 2.4.x, here we come!
Okay, here's the explanation - they said there's no 'ROSWELL'. Strictly-speaking, this is true, but only in the 'stupid UNIX-style filesystem' sense. Since uppercase characters are different from lowercase ones, 'ROSWELL' does not equal 'Roswell', therefore, while there may, indeed be no 'ROSWELL', they've certainly not addressed 'Roswell'.
.mp3. Sweet.
Also, I heard when you bootup the new beta, it plays a Dido
RedHat now denies that they have released another beta of their distro - Roswell. They say: "In reality it was just another one of our disaster recovery backups that we place offsite every month. There is no evidence that points to that this should have been a distro".
Meanwhile RedHat believers rush to FTP sites, trying to gather evidence that it indeed was a real distro that had entered these servers.
Another coverup? Only time will tell.
But still, I consider it appropriate to thank RedHat for making a nice distro which seems to be the preferred distro for corporations and not flame away at the folks from RH!
Way harder. Which is (possibly ironically) what makes it a really good distrobution.
With these lightweight distrobutions, you never get your hands dirty, expect when fighting with the package manager.
Slack does not have package dependencies. I guess pat is either too slack or too wise to start messing with dependencies. You're just supposed to read the prerequisites and deal with it yourself. No fancy, smancy automation. Just what you need for a nice, stable server.
My slack server has been up straight about 8 months, going on 9.
Stop the brainwash
cvs update :)
Dammitt, why does RH keep updating? It takes hours to download the CD ISOs over a dial-up connection...
Michael
"Goodness me, how unlike the FBI to abuse the trust of the American public." -- The Onion
Why RedHat continues to support "gcc-2.96x" is beyond me
We don't want to break binary compatibility between to minor releases, and we need a stable compiler. 3.0 isn't one yet. Try compiling KDE (from CVS) with it, and you'll see.
Almost all of the improvements you listed are already in 2.96, by the way - in fact, they're the reasons we've decided to go with 2.96 rather than 2.95.x in 7.0.
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Robin (Roblimo) Miller != Rob (CmdrTaco) Malda. CmdrTaco (Rob Malda) posted this story.
Wow. I could have sworn I saw that Roblimo posted this story, but you're right. Well, it's a good thing I'm not claiming to be a journalist. ;)
Jeez... I can't believe how many people fell for this. It was obviously a deliberately snide comment intended to produce posts exactly like yours. I've never seen a more obvious attempt to "rattle some cages" than this and /. editors routinely post flamebait on purpose!! You and 50,000 other /.ers seem to have fallen for it yet again.
Next time you see some ridiculously inflammatory comment by an editor (Apple and one button mice anyone?)... stop before you flame back and wonder if they aren't all laughing their asses off at the lot of you. I know I am. :)
As of 7.1 (I think?) you don't need to burn CDs. Just D/L the iso images onto a partition, boot from floppy and choose a hard drive install. This prevents you from using the graphical installer but it's not much of a loss. I suppose it also implies that you already have a partition... I don't know if you can use a dos formatted drive for this.
This is really cool, I love open betas! Great way to try some newer versions of kde and gnome!
Most of my machines are running (patched) 7.1, but I do have a few still on 7.0. I'm really looking forward to 7.2 final, but I'll sure use the beta right away. One of my friends is still using 6.2, heh.
Too bad we can't say the same about XP
Have they dropped the paragraph from their beta eulas as to you agreeing not to admit to the existance of the product, or the existance or lack of features, etc, without Microsoft's permission?
-- Scott
i run a Thunderbird 1200MHz with a Abit board, and the chipset (kt133a) is causing all kinds of headaches. we have tried RH 6.2/7.0/7.1 with both the 2.0 and 2.2 kernel. is there a fix? should i try a different distribution?
:)
if i leave the machine running (seti) overnight, or for a few hours, it locks. nothing to do but reboot and hope reiserfs still works
thanks for any help!
If you find yourself interested by this article, you should probably subscribe to the readhat watch lists. I moslty do so because they send security alerts for Redhat there, but I found out about the beta a couple of days ago thanks to that.
Now if only they would put out RH 7.2 for SPARC. Sigh. Probably not. Actually, any news about a new Redhat for Alpha?
Funny, I submitted a story on PCI 3.0 (Intel's Arapahoe interface) to replace the existing PCI bus. His reason for rejecting it was "he had others who already submitted it, and was sitting on those waiting to post it." This was on Thursday of last week... I would have thought people would like to know what's going on for the future of computers, not just when Taco feels he needs to bash RedHat (even though Slackware is superior :-) ).
Or isn't he allowed to have an opinion any more, now that he gets so much traffic?
:o))
But he'll have to live with comments like this
--
Karma 50, and all I got was this lousy T-Shirt.
You don't have to update. If you are happy with what you are currently running, and everything is working for you, keep your system as is. heh, that's called M$ withdrawal
Photos.
Has anyone else gotten the impression that if they met Taco in person, they'd despise him. I'm not trying to be a troll here, I'm serious.
I really get the impression that he is a spoiled, whiney man-child. He reminds me of the stereo-typical movie director or prima-donna actor, whining and screaming at his assistants.
I mean, maybe I'm the only one, and I admit that I've never and probably will never meet him. But I've managed to stitch together an opinion of hime from his half-wit article comments and stories I've read about him.
If I'm wrong, and you've met him and he's a great guy, feel free to correct me.
gcc 3.0 has been out for a long time already and there's no reason not to use it. 2.95 and the unoffical 2.96x are ancient by today's standards. 3.0 is the latest version and it works quite well. A bit faster, too.
Yeah yeah, I bought a few at today's low-low prices because I'm not out a whole lot if they go under and I think that of the Linux companies, they have a pretty good chance of success. I pity the people who got in at the IPO price and didn't sell when they went over $100, though...
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Here is a list of gcc-3.0 improvements over gcc-2.95.3. As for myself, I really appreciate the libstdc++-3.0 support.
I am less than enthusiatic about the
New warnings for C code that may have undefined semantics because of violations of sequence point rules in the C standard (such as a = a++;, a[n] = b[n++]; and a[i++] = i;), included in -Wall.
OMS/LiVid code, in particular, trips this up.
Normally I try to ignore the biased comments that creep up in the stories here, but the snippy little comments, regardless of the topic, have become a bit much lately.
Uh, guys...this is real. See the Red Hat beta site. They've got the ISOs up on a few mirrors. And that crazy thing about the rumors came right from the Red Hat site.
... is that X+1.0 will be around the corner! RedHat 8.0 probably won't be 100% stable, but it should be a cool new bit of software! I'll be installing 7.2 beta tonight, but what I'm really looking forward to will be the schweeet Red Hat 8.0 later this year!
O wait, linux, hmm... some commands and some flags... in a particular order. Ah, the usability!
just make the whining, screeching music not be shipped with Red Hat!
Dido may sound like whining, but screeching? Hell, even if she did screech, I'd take her, petrified, hot grits, any way she wanted it.
For the love of decency, stop!
For the love of Dido, don't stop!
If you switch to a real OS, it just works.
A week old "news" is not news anymore.
-Yenya
--
While Linux is larger than Emacs, at least Linux has the excuse that it has to be. --Linus
First off, i would not compare rpm to apt-get. Apt-get is more of a high-level thing, while rpm (the program, that is) is more like perl - you can do all kinds of stuff with it, but it's rarely optimal and takes some getting used to.
Apt-get should rather be compared to rhn (red hat network). You have to pay for rhn, while apt-get is totally free. You can choose whether to get your files by ftp, http or nfs. It does all kinds of nice stuff. They are starting to get some good gui clients for apt, too.
The fact that you need to pay for rhn, shows that red hat does NOT take security seriously. I would NEVER put a red hat machine anywhere security critical. Rather, check out security.debian.org. Yup - they post security fixes there. For free.
Anyhow, go slack. You're not linux-nerd until you've got a good slackbox flawlessly running.
Stop the brainwash
Troll :-)
It was a slow day
Forgive my ignorance, but could someone explain what's different about ext3? What's a journaling filesystem? Why might I want to use it over ext2? Does it still need that wretched fsck?
Did you update your gcc RPM's with the updates posted to all the mirror sites several weeks back ?
I do a LOT of C/C++ coding, and have not seen such problems with the updated compiler.
ron
Questioning their opinions is fine, and to be encourage, but personal comments are not. It's unprofessional, it takes away from the main topic of the discussion, and it's irritating.
Dude, alot of us are really tired of the skript kiddie attitude some people here have. What's irritating is that people bash Redhat and there is really no good reason.
They overlook any good Redhat has done and harp on anything they can to justify their elitism..
Oh, and who the hell made you the Slashdot moderator? Get off your high horse, please.
Why do I keep typing pythong?
Ive acutally had the iso's since July 30th.. its funny how RH said no such beta exists however on ftp.redhat.com it does... Well anyways.. Native EXT3 support and no fsck anymore with ext3 well not like we are used to seeing... New GUI hard drive layout setup too... Reminds me of the old Digital Unix OSF 3.x and 4.0 setup layout. All in all its a nice release...
After all, being a beta, if there are major bugs found, they may have to make enough significant changes that Ximian would spend too much time catching up. Better to wait until the release.
I suppose that means you purely run windows ME so you can play diablo?
Do they ship the new 3.0, while they promised not to keep point releases binary compatible?
Or do they still their 2.96 "snapshot"?
mount /mnt/floppy
I wouldn't say that Roblimo crossed any sacred line here either...
I'd like if Roblimo would make up his mind as to whether or not he is a journalist.
Robin (Roblimo) Miller != Rob (CmdrTaco) Malda. CmdrTaco (Rob Malda) posted this story.
Click on the 'about' link at the top/left of the index page for more details...
deus does not exist but if he does
"And I won't even make a snide comment about how I haven't run Red Hat in 2 years! "
Snide: Expressive of contempt
You almost did. And besides, we don't give a flying fuck what you do, and do not use. Get over it.
-Shaunak.
~~~
Elitism isn't a very attractive feature in anyone... but then it's not Rob's fault, really.
/. community has made him into. He's basically his own boss, who's got a shitload of cash at a very early age, and reality can't touch him - so he's free to poke fun at whatever he pleases.
He is what the
BlackNova Traders
;-)
I love the style of the writing of the press release:
Etc.Too bad we can't say the same about XP
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Another example of Taco's absurdly over-inflated sense of his own self-importance.
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."
-- Pablo Picasso
Its comments like that that hinder the growth of the linux community. Joe newbie finally gets on to an IRC linux help channel, asks about something he thinks is redhat related. He gets replies of "lamer, rtfm, redhat is gay." or, more in line with Taco's "Redhat, um, no comment, Redhat *snicker*"
/. post something so utterly condescending on what is probably the most popular linux distro for newbies, and The Best Known linux outside of the linux community.
The newbie feels dejected, sees the community as a bunch of arrogant geeks (i guess we mainly are?) and goes back to windows where Everyone is willing to help him.
While it seems most of the linux community is realizing this, and is starting to work together to make linux a more newbie friendly place, less distro fanaticism and more helping hands, its quite suprising to see
Erm, considering that the current story is about a new Redhat beta distro, I'd say I *was* bitching about Redhat. And yes, I know what KDE's package policy is.
I'm still using 6.2 with patches. It's damned stable. 7.0 just scared the crap out of me, though I may finally switch to 7.1.
# apt-get dist-upgrade
I fail to see how this is so much worse than the FreeBSD solution. Likewise, I can't see that apt-get would be that much better than the FreeBSD solution either (although I haven't used the FreeBSD one).
Cheers //Johan
Installed the Bubblemon yet?
oh cool, a new version of everyones favorite operating system. except mine.
run LEENUCKS or we will come to your house and beat up your mother.
The X.2 releases of Redhat are usually pretty refined. There is not much ground breaking stuff in here, just evolution of the existing packages (gcc 3.0 is not used by default, just included in addition to 2.96).
2.4.6 is now included, as is Xfree 4.1.0 and Gnome 1.4
RH 7.1 is already a pretty nice distribution. It will be interesting to see what the installer changes look like.
Wow! thanks for the snide comment Commander l33ter-than-though Taco!
I know it's bad form to post links to one's own web site, but observe.
How exactly do you mount a floppy under this new distro?
I thought RH and Ximian were playing nicely together. Hopefully this is something that will be sorted out before the final release, but it does not look that way from the comments in the release note.
On Thursday, I submitted this to Slashdot:
"2001-08-02 20:18:48 Redhat Releases New Beta (articles,redhat) (rejected)"
Interesting how it only gets posted if the all-powerful Taco submits it... WTF?
------
Random, useless fact: I type in startx entirely with my left hand.
Ahem... Responding to trolls is usually something I don't fall for, but:
GCC 2.96 is an unofficial version of the gcc 3.0 development code that Red Hat released because of their substantial ability to support the code (being as they employ a significant number of the world's gcc hackers) and their customers' demands for better standards support in C++. GCC 2.96 was unstable initially only in a few small areas, and they were fixed way back in 7.0 updates. I've never ever had a problem with 7.1.
If you want to hate Red Hat, I suppose its compiler is as good a place as any to start a rant, but it's not a broken or unstable compiler. In fact, it's a much better compiler than gcc 2.95 in some pretty dramatic areas (standards compliance, non-x86 support, etc).
I think you need to re-evaluate what you mean by "unstable" and "gcc", since gcc 2.96 did start life as an honest-to-goodness development snapshot of gcc, and was brought to you by the very same folks that gave you egcs.
In a few months it'll be fine, but not now. Anyway, RedHat can't change ABI in a .x release.
BULL ! Then i suppose when you do a shutdown and tell the controller to flush buffers/cache your screwed if does not obey the flush command, you just lose your cached data right !
LinuxNews.pl was the user who submitted it, CT was the one who posted it. What probably happened is that one of other the editors saw the artical dropped it, where as CT saw this one and posted it.
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Looking at the rpms, there are a couple of Reiserfs tools so I'd assume it's that one. I must say I'm a bit disappointed. I was hoping they'd opt for xfs seeing as there's already an xfs installer.
...for the 7.2 release of RedHat.
I am a Linux newbie and I am installing/using Linux from time to time to see how this interesting OS is evolving (Win2000 is my main OS). My all-time fav distro is RedHat 7.1, due to the easy to use installer and management/configuration tools.
The main problem with RH 7.1 was the damned GCC 2.96.3 compiler which refuses to compile more then 50% of the programs out there and it really makes me wonder why the hell has RedHat *yet again* made it the default compiler. GCC 2.96.3 and 3.0 ? C'mon ! I thought everybody said that 2.95.3 was the last usable one.
I am very excited about the upcoming 7.2 release with Ximian Gnome 1.4 and XFree 4.1.0, but I will be really pissed if the final release won't include KDE 2.2 and a proper compier as well.
Exactly - KDE has set up usability.kde.org and the kde-usability@kde.org mailing list (subscribe by sending a message to kde-usability-request@kde.org with "subscribe" in the subject) just for that purpose.
You're all very welcome to join.
This message is provided under the terms outlined at http://www.bero.org/terms.html
Where, O where, is the source to kontrol-panel? I was building my own KDE from source the other day (yeah, before rawhide updated to 2.2-cvs) and I couldn't find the kontrol-panel source code anywhere for the life of me!
I know that SUSE is using the new LVM subsystem. It's amazing in that it's just like HP-UX - I just keep wondering where VxFS is.
Really, Red Hat's insistance upon ext3 has cost them dearly - Oracle going exclusively with SUSE, and SUSE using Reiser, really puts Red Hat's Reiser instability claims to the fire. I've used the XFS version from SGI, and the file system is just great. Why Red Hat didn't go with this, I will never be able to understand.
Because of the Oracle issue, I'm probably heading towards SUSE - just haven't had the time to research it and start the migrations. Red Hat has drug their feet on WAY too many issues for FAR too long.
Hey!
I really don't appreciate getting all that spam! Could you please get a hotmail address (and passport account!) for spam like the rest of us!
thanks
- Bernard Osborne
Quality Assurance, IIS Group
Rodney king ? is that you ?
Finally they've including journalling as an installable option, I'm downloading now!!! Oh, does anyone know which journalling package it is? EXT3 maybe?
3000 dead over past 2 years, still no free Palestinians, still
You should usually not run a "normal" X server on top of a framebuffer-enabled kernel (check the READMEs in the kernel source).
If you do, a lot of odd things can happen, especially when switching back and forth between X and text mode.
This message is provided under the terms outlined at http://www.bero.org/terms.html
I don't know about Rob, but any company Alan Cox works for is good enough for me. Linux is Linux, and damn it, we need to support all distributions and stop being so snobby. We need to quit these X is better then Y distribution wars and focus on becoming a better operating system for all. Each distribution out there brings both good and bad features to the table. Maybe if we all work together instead of sit on elitiest high horses we can actually take some market share away from Micro$oft so we won't have to worry about poor security and a million viruses connecting to our port 80's. I don't know if X is better then Y, but I think every linux distribution I know seems better then Windows. Peace out...
Roswell doesn't exist either...
l
;)
It's ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/beta/roswel
See? It's roswell!
This message is provided under the terms outlined at http://www.bero.org/terms.html
Actually they will flush after a period of inactivity (say 2-3 seconds). But you never know exactly when the power outage will come, so potential for data loss from drive caches is still there.
"The controllwe will do it whenever it feels like it." The controller does what the device driver tells it to do when it tells it to do it !, its the device driver that controls the hardware, so when the kernel sends a command to the device driver to perform a function like flush cache it happens !.
Yet another good reason for me to run RedHat I guess...
Nobody cares what distro you run, Rob. Please move along.
As you say yourself the CVS snapshot is more recent than the beta. If you want to run beta/unstable code you should want to run the very latest version. In this case the CVS snapshot should be more stable than the beta since it should contain some fixes of bugs found in the beta.
Phobos - Greek word for fear or flight
and besides, /. has sometimes a kinda freshmeat tone.. see here (freshmeat release announcment, 03 August 2001).
In fact, the only interesting part is the funny comments around the name... and of course, all the fuss about Taco's quote, at the end...
This happens to be my fault.
;) We haven't come up with a way to work more than 24 hours a day, but I'll keep trying. ;)
Or rather, it's because I didn't have the time to build the packages when the beta was current (if you've ever worked for a linux distributor, you know there are more important things to do a couple of days before a feature freeze...), and I don't think it makes much sense to build them now (now that the beta is pretty much obsolete).
That's precisely why I chose to put a recent CVS snapshot that should be pretty close to the 2.2 release in Roswell.
If you don't like it, send some of your spare time to bero@redhat.com.
This message is provided under the terms outlined at http://www.bero.org/terms.html
Actually they will flush after a period of inactivity (say 2-3 seconds). But you never know exactly when the power outage will come
Some drives have a capacitor to give them just enough power to write out the contents of the cache before they lose power or to hold the contents of the cache until power is restored.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Obviously, there are some new things, like filesystems, that frankly, won't affect me in the least.
My concerns lie more with some interface things that are holding me back from using Linux. Not having come from a Unix background, I have no experience compiling software, understanding file permissions, etc. Does 7.2 do anything to address the needs of newer users?
I have been running Linux since November or December of 1991. I've seen just about every distro that's ever been out starting with HJ Lu's boot/root floppies. Why myst people waste so much time an effors on distro bashing? It's Linux! That's all that matters. I have tried all of the "big 7" (see LWN's Distro page) from their early releases to date. When it comes down to what counts there is no significent difference between them! They all work and work well. They will do the job that needs to be done if you have a resonably compitent SysAdmin to run them. Just like any other *NIX. I've also used Free/Net/OpenBSD and Solaris any they also work. If all the energy that is currentlly used to rant about Distros/OS/Licenses was put towards constructive things the world would be saying "Micro-WHO?" right now.
I know no one is going to actually listen to me. But I'll keep tilting at windmills till I can't ride any more.
--
If I actually could spell I'd have spelled it right in the first place.
It's just impossible to install Red Hat without downloading everything. Unlike most distributions (thanks Slackware), you have to download ~2G even if you just want a minimal installation.
Gee ... I'm sure that escaped Rob's attention.
There was a discussion on linux-kernel a couple months ago. It turns out that most desktop IDE drives ignore the cache flush command. Microsoft had to add a 2 second delay to the Win 9x shutdown in order to avoid being bitten by this.
Well, I really like the warnings gcc 2.96 gives:
-- header files should end with an empty newline, otherwise warn.
-- no text should appear after a #endif directive (there goes my habit of commenting which directive I close)
Small annoyances that suddenly appeared when running -Wall.
...but you rejected it. :-(
So much for Slashdot's efficiency.
please the real reason is that the ABI has changed in 3x
simple
redhat 7.x all have the same ABI nice for vendors
oh and ext3 does suck has sucked for a while but servers to clean up the rest of the kernel !
so important work
I have yet to see a 3TB ext3 see an XFS one every day so which would I rather have
plus my jaz disks are XFS so yahno
regards
john jones
EXACTLY! I posted the same thing, at approximately the same moment, and it was also rejected. :-(
Slashdot starts to suck...
Well, I guess I'm a lamer - I confess to not only using Red Hat, but even buying the distro at least once.
:-)
Okay, I'm not a Linux expert, just a programmer from a non-Linux planet who shares some, but not all of the anti-MS sentiment expressed here. So, from time to time I try a Linux distro to see if the state of the art is such that I can replace my Windows desktop with it.
So, I've bought Redhat, Caldera and Corel (there goes what little Karma I have) over the last few years. Recently, I clued into downloading ISO's and burning my own, so I have can dual boot RH 7.1 now with my windows. I can tell you, I'll keep downloading RH and working with it until my MS Independence Day comes (probably shortly after the release of XP).
Um, yeah, CmdrTaco's comment went over like a lead balloon. In contrast, I really appreciate the calm, helpful, objective postings such as the ones bero-rh has posted here today. But, give the TacoMan a break. He's just the guy throwing the chum over the side of the boat
Read my sig if you like, but I'll never see yours, thanks to Discussions, Viewing, Disable sigs...
Rob's comment was flaimbait, this is the result (and deserved too.)
From past experence with RedHat dists, they usually fix the major gaping holes in major versions in x.1, with x.2 ironing out the smaller details that were missed in x.1.
At least 6.x went in this fashion (I still find 6.2 to be the most stable and usable dist so far, with 7.1 being the choice for new servers).
Brielle
Ugh :) I don't know where YOU work, but the base I'm on (Marine Corps here, yeah, we're cheap and DISA screws us over, and yes, I made the same fooling decision of joining) has a 512k outgoing pipe for 900+ users, but it's cool at night if you're got duty :)
mcox.com - Useful Information re: IT, Running, Fitness, Finance, or Ann Arbor!
When I want to download a linux distro, I just use a download manager and content myself with downloading about fifty megs a night over my dial-up connection. It takes a couple weeks, but as long as I remember to start the download, it's fairly hassle-free, and far cheaper than buying the CDs.
I'm the stranger...posting to
"RedHat 8.0 probably won't be 100% stable, but it should be a cool new bit of software! "
How is that cool? Most linux users use it as a server OS, where stability is everything and coolness matters not a whit. Myself, I use Red Hat in "embedded-type" applications such as MP3 jukeboxes, really cheap pc-based DVD players, etc. And the big advantage Linux has over windows on the desktop is its improved stability. What is the point of unstable linux in the name of coolness?
I'm the stranger...posting to
Ladies and Gentlemen, I have said it before and I will say it again. Free discussion is what Slashdot is all about, but if you think this site is so terrible or that Taco and the other editors are such idiots/snobs/nazis/whatever, either keep it to yourself or just leave. Questioning their opinions is fine, and to be encourage, but personal comments are not. It's unprofessional, it takes away from the main topic of the discussion, and it's irritating. If Malda is being arrogant, there's no need to post that fact - we see it, and calling him an "asshole" is just childish.
Many of us are respected IT professionals, and many others like to think of ourselves as being intelligent, mature people. Let's try to act like it, eh?
I'm the stranger...posting to
Why does Red Hat hate us? Is it that not enough people are buying boxed distros? Hell, I'll buy one! I'll buy three! Whatever you want, guys, I'll buy it, just make the whining, screeching music not be shipped with Red Hat! For the love of decency, stop! (Collapses into pathetic crying fetal position)
I'm the stranger...posting to
I am still running a 6.2 box (my only remaining Red Hat box) and will consider installing 7.2 once it comes out of beta. The box works as well as the day I installed it (about a year ago now). I want it as a nice _stable_ box that is there when I need it.
I hope people will install 7.2 beta because it offers something they need (and cannot wait for) or because they are confident enough to fix any problems that might occur.
Less clued users and frequent upgrades are a recipe for frustration.
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
Just so you know, I got a professionally packaged (i.e. not just a burn) 7.1 CD kit in my RHCE class the first week of June.. it certainly didn't come out last month..
Intelligent Life on Earth
Oh. SPARC. Sorry.
What? No takebacks? Oh crap.
Intelligent Life on Earth
-5 Troll/Flamebait/Redundant
Can at least 2% of posts be intelligent? From off-topic posts to retarded remarks. Anyway, I installed Roswell and I was very surprised that RedHat put together such a nice looking user-friendly distribution. KDE 2.2 is very polished. Ext3 seems not to have any problems (at least I haven't discovered any). mkreiserfs is included and now you can also choose grub right at the install time. All in all, if 7.2 is going to be even better than this beta, I am looking forward to it.
The first beta of Roswell (the second is downloading right now) is the first linux distro I've seen with proper support for Canadian English. I fired up Kword, set it for Canadian English, and it flagged "color" and "tyre" correctly as misspellings. This is really great. I'm tired of having to use an British English dictionary (which is closer to Canadian English and American) with a US keyboard.