I use Linux at work and I use Linux at home. It fits my needs (surfing, emailing, some games, some projects)...
If I need to use something which is either not available for Linux or that it's not good enough on Linux - then either I reboot or I run VMWare with Windows as a guest (I preffer the latter)...
Use the right tool for the job you wanted to do. It's that simple.
The LSB stanard is almost complete. There are few modifications that are needed, and they're looking for people who can create a Logo for the LSB 1.0 (Read Nick's coloumn about it in Linux world web site)..
Trust me, it broke, lots of servers. At my previous job as a sys admin I had the "pleasure" to see after installing SP5 one of the NT servers crashes after about 3 minutes of activity...
Service pack 6 also broke the Lotus notes (I think, or was it Domino?) servers, until came the 6a service pack..
I guess thats life with MS patches. Test on lab before put on the production servers...
If HP is moving to the Linux way, and you suggest that they'll go with Minix - they'll have a problem..
1. How many processors Minix support? HP ic clearly is not designing it for the next month to put it out - but maybe a year or 2 - so chances are slim to find that your Unix variant runs on those processors - unless it's Linux or a BSD variant..
2. HP will surely not going to write all those applications from scratch. I'm sure that they'll license those apps from 3rd party company, and most chances are that those companies have those apps either for Palm OS/Windows CE or... you guessed... Linux
With Palm OS, they'll still have to pay royalties and licenses for each hand-held they're selling...
With Linux, they can simply put the bare OS itself with X Windows (or W windows) and bundle some programs with it..
Even if they'll license the pocket-linux and bunch or programs with it, plus lab costs (to develop the interconnect between applications, hardware related issues, sync etc...) it won't cost them as much as Palm OS or Windows CE...
I have been talking to many companies who make those kind of devices and one thing is for sure - Microsoft simply doesn't learn that in term of pricing - the Desktop market is totally different then the Palm/PocketPC/Embedded market..
I guess you haven't seen Agenda VR-3 in action. This Agenda have X windows inside - and it's amazing what you can do with it - the guys at work showd me some really cool stuff - and some of them are thinking to port MAME to it:)
Well, thats true - the ftp admin blocked the ftp/http file getting - so that mirrors would get those files first. That way, the mirrors get the files, and after that - everyone else from the main ftp and the mirrors..
Actually - you don't need Xinerama with KDE 2.1 at all..
DOwnload the Matrox driver for Linux for true dual head, and use KDE 2.1 - it got NATIVE support for Dual head, so all the popups windows comes in the screen that your application is running and NOT in the center of the screen like Xinerama does.
Also, you'll get 30% speed increase (thats what Xinerama takes)
Although I'm not a KDE developers, but at work we have a guy who is running KDE 2.1 on an old Toshiba Notebook - Pentium MMX 233 with 64MB RAM, and it runs pretty fast on it. Heck, he browses while he is compiling the other packages (kdemultimedia, kdenetwork etc)...
You said: "..Both projects are extremely undocumented and very few, if any, have a complete grasp of the entire system in either case."
How come? the KDE itself comes with a very good online manual, as well 52 languages localized version of all what appears on screens "menus, windows etc.."
There is a book which you can either buy, browse on line or simply downloading it - to make KDE applications and the QT library itself has one of the best documentation I've seen outside Microsoft world - freely available.
You're forgetting 1 thing. As much as I like Linux (I use it all the time now - home and work), and even the berlin project will make some serious steps forward in development (which seems they do, but very slowly) - you still need to be backward compatibility.
Sure, you can hack QT and KDE and GTK(+,--,+-, whatever) and GNOME to use berlin natively, but you got HUGE application base that simply need and want X only.
Don't forget - there are lots of applications for Linux which are closed source and the vendor wouldn't even listen to you about porting/moving it to berlin, because he uses this code with modifications on Sun, HP, IBM, SGI, *BSD and others, so your chances with closed source applications are slim..
So you'll probably say "they will have an X compatibility layer" - go ahead, enjoy the huge headache to do this, and this will make your berlin project crawl..
And I'm not mentioning writing drivers for all the various graphics cards - those who give specs, and those who don't care about you at all and write in-house a driver..
KDE CVS from yesterday on Pentium 233 with 64MB on Toshiba notebook. Konqueror runs pretty fast thank you...
You might want to use the packages for your distribution, since those packages are with "release-final" compiled option which removes lots of unnecesary stuff.
Nop. It's not related to anything. I just found out about GNOME 1.4 few hours ago and I posted it here on/.
As for KDE 2.1 - Tommorow it will be TAGGED KDE_2_1 final and will be send to packagers. The official launch of KDE 2.1 will be next monday. Mirrors will have the packages ready by then, as well as an easy gui installer (hopefully).
Go ahead, grab Redhat 5.1 (if you can find one) and try to compare Linux to what Linux is today. Compare the X windows, desktop enviroment, compare hardware support, applications, gaems, usability, stability, performance..
Do not forget - it took Microsoft 15 years of some hard work, some hand twisting, companies/technologies buying, stealing/copying from others (I'm sure apple fans will be delighted to tell you about that), and lots of threatening - and what do you got in terms of operational and stability? this!
So yes, today Linux is not supporting all the hardware - but go out and ask ANY company about this hardware support and all of it within 2 years and without much co-operation from the vendors - and you won't find a single company who wouldn't want this achivement!
So how will Linux be in 3 years? my bet will be: totally different, much more easier for newbies/Windows users, and much bigger install base.
Well, it's not that hard actually. I could answer him this way..
Jim boy - do you use the Internet? maybe surfing a bit? writing an email? downloading a file maybe?
Well, if you do one of these - most chances that they are working on an open source operating systems (like DNS, web servers, email servers, ftp servers) AND they are based on open industry standard...
So Jim, could you say it for at least 2 microsoft "technologies"? I hardly think so..
You got it wrong. The article that you probably read was about the Apple DVD-R recorder which is not playable on some consumer (and some PC's) DVD players - which is true. Some of the old DVD players cannot read DVD-R CD's.
Oh, and the DVD-R cd's got the CSS ring (the place where the CSS authentication data is stored) blocked, and the DVD-R storage is smaller then the normal DVD media itself - so no DVD's media copying... (hmm, they probably didn't hear that DivX with small compression ratio can give some excellent results.. oh well - maybe they'll get it some day)
Maybe you should start by moving to XFree 4? recompile your SDL (if your player runs with the SDL option) with Xv support? check if you have Xv support? (by typing: xvinfo)?
Well, at least with Xine it's not possible due to the legal reasons (the authors want to keep xine legal as possible - and I can understand them). Thats why you don't see IFO parsing there also.
Don't know about the german magazine, but I have tested Xine 0.3.7 with the 0.3 libCSS patch (you can grab it on the #xine channel on IRC.Openprojects.Net) and I have tested over 180 DVD's (region 1 and 2) and so far I got great DVD playback + subtitles support + AC3 sound without any problem...
Machine: Athlon 800, Redhat 7, Matrox G400 Dual Head
Both (Linux and *BSD) runs KDE with konqueror fine, and you can read 98% of Israeli web pages just fine (whatever they are logical Hebrew or Visual Hebrew).
You can also use the Mozilla which you can download from IGLU web pages an d use it to watch the Hebrew pages..
As far as typing in Hebrew - go to the IGLU pages and you can find there a suite of RPM's which are called "freebidi" which lets you type and use applications like XCHAT and other programs which uses the XDrawString - and get normal hebrew.
* Dual Athlons
* 2 Ethernets (look near the parallel port)
* 2 SCSI connectors (in the extreme left side, the picture quality sucks)
* 4 64-bit PCI slots
So what does this looks to you? a typical workstation?
Slashdot Mirror
I use Linux at work and I use Linux at home. It fits my needs (surfing, emailing, some games, some projects)...
If I need to use something which is either not available for Linux or that it's not good enough on Linux - then either I reboot or I run VMWare with Windows as a guest (I preffer the latter)...
Use the right tool for the job you wanted to do. It's that simple.
Bzzt... Wrong!
The LSB stanard is almost complete. There are few modifications that are needed, and they're looking for people who can create a Logo for the LSB 1.0 (Read Nick's coloumn about it in Linux world web site)..
Next time, Check before you post!
Trust me, it broke, lots of servers. At my previous job as a sys admin I had the "pleasure" to see after installing SP5 one of the NT servers crashes after about 3 minutes of activity...
Service pack 6 also broke the Lotus notes (I think, or was it Domino?) servers, until came the 6a service pack..
I guess thats life with MS patches. Test on lab before put on the production servers...
Brian - you seem to forget one thing...
... you guessed ... Linux
If HP is moving to the Linux way, and you suggest that they'll go with Minix - they'll have a problem..
1. How many processors Minix support? HP ic clearly is not designing it for the next month to put it out - but maybe a year or 2 - so chances are slim to find that your Unix variant runs on those processors - unless it's Linux or a BSD variant..
2. HP will surely not going to write all those applications from scratch. I'm sure that they'll license those apps from 3rd party company, and most chances are that those companies have those apps either for Palm OS/Windows CE or
Thats a MAYBE in my book for Palm OS..
With Palm OS, they'll still have to pay royalties and licenses for each hand-held they're selling...
With Linux, they can simply put the bare OS itself with X Windows (or W windows) and bundle some programs with it..
Even if they'll license the pocket-linux and bunch or programs with it, plus lab costs (to develop the interconnect between applications, hardware related issues, sync etc...) it won't cost them as much as Palm OS or Windows CE...
I have been talking to many companies who make those kind of devices and one thing is for sure - Microsoft simply doesn't learn that in term of pricing - the Desktop market is totally different then the Palm/PocketPC/Embedded market..
I guess you haven't seen Agenda VR-3 in action. This Agenda have X windows inside - and it's amazing what you can do with it - the guys at work showd me some really cool stuff - and some of them are thinking to port MAME to it :)
So goto Redhat's web site and update the damn kernel and, while you're there - grab all the updatess. It's pretty simple to run:
rpm -Uvh *
and thats it! I'm running here Redhat 7 with those updates and it didn't have even a single problem since the update of the GCC
Well, thats true - the ftp admin blocked the ftp/http file getting - so that mirrors would get those files first. That way, the mirrors get the files, and after that - everyone else from the main ftp and the mirrors..
mirrors, mirrors, mirrors...
Actually - you don't need Xinerama with KDE 2.1 at all..
DOwnload the Matrox driver for Linux for true dual head, and use KDE 2.1 - it got NATIVE support for Dual head, so all the popups windows comes in the screen that your application is running and NOT in the center of the screen like Xinerama does.
Also, you'll get 30% speed increase (thats what Xinerama takes)
Although I'm not a KDE developers, but at work we have a guy who is running KDE 2.1 on an old Toshiba Notebook - Pentium MMX 233 with 64MB RAM, and it runs pretty fast on it. Heck, he browses while he is compiling the other packages (kdemultimedia, kdenetwork etc)...
Pentium II 350, 64MB RAM, KDE 2.1 CVS from 3 days ago..
time konqueror:
real 0m1.898s
user 0m1.360s
sys 0m0.030s
Well, I consider it pretty fast thank you
You said: "..Both projects are extremely undocumented and very few, if any, have a complete grasp of the entire system in either case."
How come? the KDE itself comes with a very good online manual, as well 52 languages localized version of all what appears on screens "menus, windows etc.."
There is a book which you can either buy, browse on line or simply downloading it - to make KDE applications and the QT library itself has one of the best documentation I've seen outside Microsoft world - freely available.
You're forgetting 1 thing. As much as I like Linux (I use it all the time now - home and work), and even the berlin project will make some serious steps forward in development (which seems they do, but very slowly) - you still need to be backward compatibility.
Sure, you can hack QT and KDE and GTK(+,--,+-, whatever) and GNOME to use berlin natively, but you got HUGE application base that simply need and want X only.
Don't forget - there are lots of applications for Linux which are closed source and the vendor wouldn't even listen to you about porting/moving it to berlin, because he uses this code with modifications on Sun, HP, IBM, SGI, *BSD and others, so your chances with closed source applications are slim..
So you'll probably say "they will have an X compatibility layer" - go ahead, enjoy the huge headache to do this, and this will make your berlin project crawl..
And I'm not mentioning writing drivers for all the various graphics cards - those who give specs, and those who don't care about you at all and write in-house a driver..
Good luck
Same in KDE - check patriot-soft web site and download your KDE 2.1 (which will be out next week) for your Sun machines.
Huh?
KDE CVS from yesterday on Pentium 233 with 64MB on Toshiba notebook. Konqueror runs pretty fast thank you...
You might want to use the packages for your distribution, since those packages are with "release-final" compiled option which removes lots of unnecesary stuff.
Nop. It's not related to anything. I just found out about GNOME 1.4 few hours ago and I posted it here on /.
As for KDE 2.1 - Tommorow it will be TAGGED KDE_2_1 final and will be send to packagers. The official launch of KDE 2.1 will be next monday. Mirrors will have the packages ready by then, as well as an easy gui installer (hopefully).
Well, my friend...
Go ahead, grab Redhat 5.1 (if you can find one) and try to compare Linux to what Linux is today. Compare the X windows, desktop enviroment, compare hardware support, applications, gaems, usability, stability, performance..
Do not forget - it took Microsoft 15 years of some hard work, some hand twisting, companies/technologies buying, stealing/copying from others (I'm sure apple fans will be delighted to tell you about that), and lots of threatening - and what do you got in terms of operational and stability? this!
So yes, today Linux is not supporting all the hardware - but go out and ask ANY company about this hardware support and all of it within 2 years and without much co-operation from the vendors - and you won't find a single company who wouldn't want this achivement!
So how will Linux be in 3 years? my bet will be: totally different, much more easier for newbies/Windows users, and much bigger install base.
Well, it's not that hard actually. I could answer him this way..
Jim boy - do you use the Internet? maybe surfing a bit? writing an email? downloading a file maybe?
Well, if you do one of these - most chances that they are working on an open source operating systems (like DNS, web servers, email servers, ftp servers) AND they are based on open industry standard...
So Jim, could you say it for at least 2 microsoft "technologies"? I hardly think so..
You got it wrong. The article that you probably read was about the Apple DVD-R recorder which is not playable on some consumer (and some PC's) DVD players - which is true. Some of the old DVD players cannot read DVD-R CD's.
Oh, and the DVD-R cd's got the CSS ring (the place where the CSS authentication data is stored) blocked, and the DVD-R storage is smaller then the normal DVD media itself - so no DVD's media copying... (hmm, they probably didn't hear that DivX with small compression ratio can give some excellent results.. oh well - maybe they'll get it some day)
Maybe you should start by moving to XFree 4? recompile your SDL (if your player runs with the SDL option) with Xv support? check if you have Xv support? (by typing: xvinfo)?
Well, at least with Xine it's not possible due to the legal reasons (the authors want to keep xine legal as possible - and I can understand them). Thats why you don't see IFO parsing there also.
Don't know about the german magazine, but I have tested Xine 0.3.7 with the 0.3 libCSS patch (you can grab it on the #xine channel on IRC.Openprojects.Net) and I have tested over 180 DVD's (region 1 and 2) and so far I got great DVD playback + subtitles support + AC3 sound without any problem...
Machine: Athlon 800, Redhat 7, Matrox G400 Dual Head
Rami,
Both (Linux and *BSD) runs KDE with konqueror fine, and you can read 98% of Israeli web pages just fine (whatever they are logical Hebrew or Visual Hebrew).
You can also use the Mozilla which you can download from IGLU web pages an d use it to watch the Hebrew pages..
As far as typing in Hebrew - go to the IGLU pages and you can find there a suite of RPM's which are called "freebidi" which lets you type and use applications like XCHAT and other programs which uses the XDrawString - and get normal hebrew.
And what does this looks like?
* Dual Athlons
* 2 Ethernets (look near the parallel port)
* 2 SCSI connectors (in the extreme left side, the picture quality sucks)
* 4 64-bit PCI slots
So what does this looks to you? a typical workstation?