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Play DVDs On Linux
mojo-raisin writes: "After more than a year of development, the first release of OMS has been made on www.linuxvideo.org. For those of you running Debian see this message for an easy installation to your system." Looks like you need a cutting-edge libc6, among other things.
Imprison LiVid
... You are on the way to Destruction!
What You Say?!?
All Your Rights Are Belong to Us
You have no chance to compile, make your time!
I've been using xine for watching DVD's on my debian box for a while now. It works great.
= do wnload.html
I tried the oms but had a hard time getting it to work properly. For now xine works great for me. Xine also has a great plugin architecture. You can view mpeg videos with it and other stuff too. It can also use the windows video codecs for decoding video files that are not otherwise supported on Linux.
And anyways competition is always good right?
You can get xine at
http://xine.sourceforge.net/xine_frame.php?page
Debian packages are also available (Go Xine!!!)
The css plugin is available at
http://gape.ist.utl.pt/ment00/linuxdvd.html
cheers
YAH00
I'm paid to read slashdot. My employer doesn't know it - but I am ;-}
slashdot username - at - email.domain.name
I have a DVD in my server box, a little Pentium 200 - the DVD is there because there's no room in my workstation for another drive.
Does the "Lan" part of "VideoLan" allow me to run the decoder on my workstation, while the DVD is in a drive on my server?
AFAIK you need direct access to the device to negotiate keys - i.e. you can't decrypt an NFS mounted DVD - can you?
---
Well, at least with Xine it's not possible due to the legal reasons (the authors want to keep xine legal as possible - and I can understand them). Thats why you don't see IFO parsing there also.
Hetz (Heunique)
This is the first troll on /. that I've seen moderated to +5. Bravo!
There's 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
more importantly, why is this person watching a film in an incorrect aspect ratio?? Woo I like the thin tall people :)
You guys rock! Thanks for the software.
I use xine since the early 0.3.x releases and it works really well! I can get a perfect fullscreen playback at 1280x960 (thanks xv!) with a NVidia GeForce 2 MX on a P3 550. The latest version now supports subtitles and changing audio tracks on the fly (earlier versions started supporting IFO parsing, very useful too)... everything I need!
There's even an "unofficial" input plugin to play encrypted DVDs which works perfectly.
I really love this piece of software, it's wonderful
BTW, RedHat 7 users can get a clean custom packaged version from http://redhat.aldil.org/ and play all their DVDs in no time!
-- Life wasn't meant to be easy...
You're missing one important point. There is law on the books that bars certain licensing schemes and bars their enforcement.
The crux is that if money has changed hands an exchange must occur. Just like you can't have fire without oxygen along with heat and hydrogen, you can't have an exchange without the right to use that content in ways that it is readily accepted that the item purchased is made valuable.
Barring destruction of the purchased item, I have rights to use it as one would expect the point of purchase to be.
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
Shooting in the backyard is stupid.
But it does not even remotely resemble watching DVD with an unapproved player.
Shooting in the backyard is clearly different from using your gun wisely. It might injure somebody.
Watching DVD with an unapproved player is indistinguishable from watching it with an approved player. It causes zero harm.
The only different thing is the label on the DVD players. One says "approved" and the other one does not say so.
You have paid for the disc. You should be able to watch it however you want. Copyright only protects COPYING. Watching is USING and is trivially different. Use your brain sucka.
So my analogy stands. Now can I have some of what you're smoking?
Shut up! Buy a copy of Hustler and learn to jack off!
Pardon my French!
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
Not until they put Nice Large warnings about one's rights on them.
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
actually, all macs with dvd drives (except for the g3 towers) use software dvd decoding. ati has nothing to do with it, even though the rage chip supports hardware dvd decoding. i don't watch dvds on my g4, but i know that mac community was a bit disgruntled when apple went to software decoding--with the cooperative multitasking of os9, watching a dvd in a window and doing anything else cause stutters and skips. maybe things will be better under x's preemptive scheme.
london is drowning and i live by river
I've got an ATI 128 Rage mobility pro on my laptop, running Win2k and I can watch DVD's fine -- the picture quality is astounding and fullscreen you don't notice the scaling at all.
Unfortunately, I've been extremely, extremely frustrated trying to get XFree86 working correctly on my Debian side. I've tried so many things, don't even bother suggesting anything else to me...I'm ready to just drop it and concentrate on actually using the damn thing.
[pink beam of light]
I have a SBLive! Platinum and a DTS2500 Speaker System that includes a Dolby Digital Decoder, and under Windows it really rocks, under Linux with Xmovie I just get Stereo sound.
Anybody knows of a project to bring AC3 to Linux? ALSA is planning to include it after the release of version 0.6 but what about OSS drivers?
- german
If you're anal about picture, as it sounds, get a matrox card. I can barely tell the difference, but friends of mine really do. Especially in very high resolutions. (I run my Viewsonic GS815 21" in 1920x1440 from my ASUS GeForce DDR) Matrox might not have the framerate in 3D apps, but in 2D they're the best consumer-level card.
And the only reason the G4 is faster decoding is that the ATI card has DVD decoding hardware. And the Athlon is borderline for software decoding. It'll work 98%, but you'll get skips in complex scenes. Both my p3-800 (600 OCed) and my GF's Thunderbird 900 do fine, but if I clock the 800 to 600 or lower (I was testing some software I wrote and forgot to return it) the jerkiness is terrible.
can I get it to use the hardware DVD decoding on my ATI Rage Fury?
Possession of "contravention devices" such as DeCSS is a felony in the U.S., under the DMCA.
But let the cops come to take me away for playing a DVD I purchased on a DVD-ROM drive that I purchased. Let the judge throw me in jail with a straight face.
---
Isn't it just a matter of supply and demand? As long as the video players are dominant the DVD is an item which is going to be more expensive.
The price of an object is based on its value to the customer as much as (or more so) the cost to produce. CDs are cheaper to make than tapes, but they charge less for tapes because it's lower quality and less convenient.
Don't make the same mistake marx did and assume price is a function of production cost. Do a web search for "marginal value theory" for an informative lesson in economics, one which I wish I'd learned 15 years before I did.
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
I can't decide which I like best -- the D's or
the V between them.
The disc doesn't actually detect, but it offers region free content, and zone X content, if the drive chooses the region free content it gets a black screen. Sort of a primative denial of service attack.
I'd personally love to sue the studios over this, if you buy a disk and find out it won't play because they crippled it. Just find an unmodded player that is hit by that bug, buy it, and sue the studios for false advertising. "They said it was a movie, it's a DVD of a black screen, and they did it intentionally!"
For gaming, I thought 30 was the absolute minimum for smooth believable motion.
People are begging for 200fps average frame rate so that it never gets below 60.
On film, however, 24/25 fps is the standard because that's what is available for projection and cameras. It's very easy to see the limitation on motion scenes.
yeah, your right, im a wanna be redneck-- im just 9th generation texan, drive a old beat up pickup with mud tires, listen to old country only, go hunting regularly, my mom owns more guns than most people, my dad was a roughneck, have worn the same pair of boots for 3 years straight (everyday, including church), have worked construction, etc, etc, etc, but your right, im just a poser -- man, your sad
oh, and its poser, not posuer (where the fuck are you from anyhow, boy)
It's like buying some wheels and gasoline and not being allowed to use them on my car (which i assembled from parts i got for free).
Please don't give me that piracy shit! I don't want to copy it (even though i don't see why i'm not allowed to copy it for personal use, since i bought it) and i don't want to sell it or show it to an lager audience....
Yeah, but I think xine shows just how slow OMS development has been. The xine crew took the same stuff OMS was working with and made a player, that worked, in a much shorter timeframe than the OMS crew could. Besides which, I don't need a lot of new, fancy crap to get xine to compile, like you do with OMS. I'll be sticking with xine, my dual celeron 466s and full frame rate, TYVM.
Dodger_
Does anyone have a good recommendation for a good DVD player? Creative seems fairly popular, but I'm curious as to what the alterantives are.
:)
In a way, yes: decryption, demuxing, audio decoding, subitiling is done by software. Some high-level MPEG video stuff is done by the software but the bulk of the effort (that is, motion compensation, inverse DCT and scaling/smoothing) is done by the video card (so playing a DVD at 1600x1200 is just as fast as 800x600). This is why this "software decoder" only works with Rage 128/Radeon (and now, GeForce2 MX). Actually it is about the same thing as what you get bundled with said cards in their retail PC version.
BTW, the hardware support in ATI chips is first-rate, quality-wise. The image is better than most hardware decoders (we checked a Hollywood-whatever and an ATI card on the same PC. The ATI's image is much cleaner)
-- Colin
Xine + CSS. Its hard to beat if you have a >=800mhz system.
M$ stock dropped in 1/2 since last year. If you are a MCSE, you will be broke.
o, your funny, but im not jewish, my family is of english/german descent. im southern babtist, and you are an idiot mr anonymous coward, yeah thats COWARD, bitch
-------
CAIMLAS
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
I'm afraid you are wrong. Motion compensation and iDCT does nothing to do with output resolution.
Please, read what I wrote before disagreeing. Yes, it is true that motion compensation and iDCT have nothing to do with output resolution. This is why I wrote and scaling/smoothing, which you conveniently snipped from the sentence to trick people into believing you are the smart guy.
Damn, I wish Slashcode had a killfile. Maybe I should learn some Perl and add it myself.
-- Colin
VideoLan uses SDL and plays very smoothly on my 500Mhz laptop, can play directly from encrypted DVDs, and it doesn't require jumping through a lot of hoops to get compiled/running. It's usable now, releases come in reasonable timeframes, and it keeps getting better, I'll stick with it.
If you try an ATI Rage 128 with ATI's DVD player you'll get the same results as the G4 with the ATI card.
.sig: Open Source, Open Mind
There goes one more things for the Slashcrowd to complain about....
I consider the DMCA to be in and of itself to be illegal, unfair and unjust. I consider acting against it in any way shape or to be Civil Disobediance and since the United States was founded on and has a tradition of Civil Disobediance, I see no problem with acting against it and its supporters.
I have the right to play my legally obtained DvD's on any legally obtained device. I buy my DvD's and I bought my DvD drive, which just happens to be installed in a computer running Linux. I am stealing nothing, I am hurting no one and I see no moral problem here.
Jesus died for sombodies sins, but not mine.
"Our products just aren't engineered for security,"
-Brian Valentine,VP in charge of MS Windows Development
I was pretty disappointed with LinuxVideo (LiVid) as I only got 6 fps TOPS on a Duron 700, however, a discrete link in a recent Slashdot story linked to VideoLan.org, and THEY have a client that works and works SPLENDIDLY. I got FULL framerate and EXCELLENT AUDIO as well. I've never turned back!
thelocust[dot]org
Next time read the fine print. To view Matrix, buy a Matrix card. Damn.
blessings,
"Only in their dreams can men truly be free 'twas always thus, and always thus will be."
--Tom Schulman
with a css-enabled DVD Plugin? Has anyone tried this out?
I am glad to see progress on LiVid Keep up the good work
I don't mean to try and take away from the LiViD team. They were the first to start working on a DVD player for linux, and there work has provided the basis but there are several other DVD players for linux. But there are other players which many have reported to be better than oms in the areas of configuration, performance and audio sync. One of these is call VideoLAN which several others have mentioned. It now has css support much like OMS and the performance is suppose to be quite good on lower end system. VideoLAN is not quite as old as OMS but the source was only made available more recently hence less exposure. I believe most of the code in VideoLAN was developed independently of LiViD code except css of course. There is another which has called Xine which is the newest one but reported to be one of the best. I believe this one used the LiVid video and sound system but has tweaked synchronization and performance as well as adding some other feature. This one is also designed to be compatible across several free unix type platforms including *BSD. Note that the standard version of Xine does not come with css support but it can be added with a plugin from here as well as a version with the plugin already built in here. Again what LiViD has done is great but competition as always is good. The only thing I would like to see is some unified plugin standard for these players so that any css plugin could work with any of the DVD players. That way if new DVD's come out that break the current CSS updates could occur much easier for all the projects.
I bet Tivo's next version has DVD support of some kind. It's too easy.
Now that's what I call convergence. TV, DVD, Replay, Internet access, Browsing, and Linux server all in one.
If Tivo doesn't, someone else will.
There is nothing so silly as other peoples traditions, and nothing so sacred as our own.
Too bad the "official" Linux DVD player made their official release years after the rest of us were already getting the job done on the unofficial players. Too bad none of the assembly language code compiles on IA64.
and whats your problem with jewish people anyhow, some "jew" get more pussy than you? ya white trash son of a bitch
This article sounds like oms brought DVD video to linux.
From a user's perspective, this is simply wrong: I've tried to compile oms for several months now, and I have only had partial success. All the people I asked about OMS had the same problems. Most of the time, the CVS snapshot didn't compile because some sub-parts of OMS were incompatible with others. On good days, it compiled, but had dozens of bugs...
At the same time, other Linux DVD players appeared: xmovie played the .vob files, but with quite poor quality. VideoLAN presented a more useful DVD player, but it's user interface seemed a bit poor to me.
In November 2000, I had my first glimpse on xine. In those days, it was a tiny new project, not even designed to play DVDs "for legal reasons", as the xine people always say. But it had one remarkable feature: It simply worked! I Just had to configure; make; make install and it even played (unencrypted) DVDs. After a few days of searching, I even found the CSS Plugin, which enabled xine to play encrypted DVDs. Again, it was trivial to install...
In the Meantime, there has been a rush of new xine versions. The player has become much more mature, and it supports most features I need for DVD playing, even subtitles. The developer team has been very helpful. They really try to satify user needs. There are precompiled RPM, Slackware and Debian packages. The source is extremely portable, there are people running xine on FreeBSD, or even PowerPC machines.
To make it short: Xine simply works. I never had a reason to switch again...
xine linksxine homepage
css descrambling plugin
"complete xine", xine including the css plugin
How will this Linux player fare?
Wasn't that the whole point of DVD in the first place- a rock solid standard?
my brain hurts.
Of course, since the NS2K costs a couple hundred dollars, it's not exactly an optimal solution for most people . . .
--
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
d00d! u must use the l33t w4r3zing tool "dd", like this: "dd if=/dev/dvd of=thematrix.dvd. It is so il33gal! We must ban "dd" now!!!!1 h0llyw00d needs rights!!!!1
Does my bum look big in this?
That's why it is so easy (at least in France) to find zone free DVD player (I talk about real DVD player hardware).
Region encoding is just another way to control what get sold and where.
Hub
Now you've switched over. You're straw-man arguing the Napster arguement. Wrong topic heading (but you're on the right website).
You know, the exception defines the rule...here goes. You're the exception. It further affirms that shooting in a backyard is foolish.
=)
Maybe you should start by moving to XFree 4? recompile your SDL (if your player runs with the SDL option) with Xv support? check if you have Xv support? (by typing: xvinfo)?
Hetz (Heunique)
heh heh, good one. but i have to admit that this post to me seems like a mixed metaphor. by providing its own dvd solution in the absence of industry support, this portion of the linux community is simply acting consistently with republican ideals. (the one i'm singling out here is self-reliance. (not to mention that reverse engineering may be legal.)) accordingly, couldn't the industry could be more self-reliant to prevent these "renegade" computer users from using dvds than relying on the government to support or actually help them? it would be up to the industry to come up with its own solution, such as regional coding, which is actually in use already.
To-do List: Receive telemarketing call during a tornado warning. Check.
they probably posted the pic to show the scaling capabilities, but man does her cleavage look good.
LinDVD? Last I heard they were going to use it in linux powered set-top boxes? No commercial release?
In the US, maybe. But there's a whole world out there behind the borders...
Szo
Red Leader Standing By!
Everybody have to know the truth about the matrix !
-- javaDragon is an instance of JavaDragon.
So the most advanced OS is one which has the most drivers. OK. I never knew windows 95 was the most advanced. Thanks for enlightening me.
___
___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
Never mind that you can legally download recordings of live concerts by certain generous musical groups like the Grateful Dead, Phish, and Dave Matthews Band. We can't let facts get in the way when there's trolling to be done.
-- My comment is above.
You are the reason why our great nation is facing difficult economic times right now. The way you flout the DVD Consortium and the Hollywood studios angers me to no end, and you are an embarassment to the millions of honest, hardworking American citizens who view DVDs using LEGAL hardware or software.
And it only took you guys about four or five years after DVDs first came out.
Why go to these lengths simply to break the law?
I will never understand you people.
Thank you, and God bless America.
--
George W. Bush
President, United States of America
--
George W. Bush
George W. Bush
President, United States of America
Then they could sell the Linux kernel to AT&T ;-)
If we all took the attitude you described above, this life would not be the decent one we all have, but a chaotic mess. If I find keeping unwanted children alive immoral, does that mean I should go out and kill those children? No, and neither should we ignore any law based on morality. If we disagree, we find peaceful solution, not ramming our beliefs out like this.
Now back to our scheduled programming....
They stuck me in an institution, said it was the only solution, to...protect me from the enemy, myself
So you never heard the phrase 'putting the bat in the upper deck'?
the D's.. for without the D's the V would fail to exist :(
What am I saying, you have trolled all day long on this site, anyways.
They stuck me in an institution, said it was the only solution, to...protect me from the enemy, myself
Gee, nasty. It'd probably take me like 10 whole minutes to find the little piece of paper that tells me how to change the region on my Apex and change to region 1 for the movie. It would annoy me to no end and probably cause me to return the movie to the store and tell them it's defective and ask for my money back. I wonder if enough people will do that to make the stores complain to Hollywood?
Where do you think you can claim that playing a DVD on a GNU/Linux system is illegal ? Nowhere. You're dead, shit.
-- javaDragon is an instance of JavaDragon.
Now imagine that the World Company that have almost 80% of the video publishing companies as well as several DVD Player manufacturer wants to make it's main competitor (ACME DVD, a DVD player manufacturer) bites the dust. In this case the World Company only have to remove the ACME DVD CSS key from their DVD disc, so that WC DVD cannot be played on ACME DVD.
Don't you find this unfair ?
On the other side, CSS does not prevent raw copy of DVD, hence it does not offer a good copy protection scheme.
And I don't find decrypting a DVD to play it when we have purchased it legally is violating author's right. After all buying the DVD gives us the right to watch it as much as we want, when we want, where we want (unless it is public broadcasting or other condition prohibited by law).
Hub
Right now, when you buy a DVD you own it. But I am quickly seeing things shape up where, because it is digital content, the MPAA are going to say that by buying the DVD you have just purchased a license to view it and that you must abide by some type of EULA type contract (in which I am certain they will say playing on an 'unauthorized' player will be illegal and a breach of contract). Whether they can make that stick or not is an interesting debate, and one we won't see settled until the first case of DVD EULA contract breach goes through the courts.
Just thought I'd point that out. I agree with your sentiments, and that we should own things that we have purchased, but I'm sure the movie company would disagree with you.
------------
The American Revolution was illegal to. What the fuck is your point? In order to change things, you need to stand up to what's accepted in society. I find the existing encryption licensing scheme to be immoral, and therefore, I am going to stand up against it.
But are the DVDs recorded at film speed (24fps) or TV speed (60 interlaced fps/30 NI fps)?
In fact, copyright law's basis is that it should protect the creators of a works rights only to the extent that it encourages the creation and dissemination of works to the public. In this case the movie industry is trying to restrict even paying customers from fair use of the works they've bought, and that violates the very principles copyright law is built on.
If breaking CSS for fair use purposes violates any laws, it's the laws that shouldn't be as they are, and I'd break them whenever I please.
Luckily I don't live in a country that have sillyness like the DMCA (not that the UK doesn't have more than enough other crappy legislation to make up for it)
Actually, if watching a few DVDs I own would bring down the society I'm living in, then the society really needs to be brought down, because in that case it's seriously flawed.
According to a Salon article I read, playing DVDs on linux is illegal.
Until the MPAA decides that dvd-playing on linux is legal, it is still not legal. It's an unauthorized, rogue operation.
Dragging people kicking and screaming into reality since 1996.
First of all, I find it rather disturbing how some people seem to be really ignorant.
We (the people) are allowed to 'view' our purchased DVDs based the the fair use law! No ands, ifs, or buts.
Now to quote you, "No it's illegal like stealing cable is illegal".
If you are paying for Cable-TV, you are ALLOWED BY LAW to be able to DESCRABLE IT. Just so long as you dont descramble the channels you are NOT paying for. Look it up, and make more informed posts next time.
To give you a little history... There one was a time when Telephone companies tried to charge you for each phone you had installed on the SAME line. You had to also purchase the telephone directly from the phone company. The courts thought otherwise. This same case was used towards the cable companies as well. Now, you are ALLOWED to purchase your own telephone just like you can purchase your own cable descambler independent from the phone/cable companies. Just as long you were PAYING for service.
One of the lead LiViD developers has posted a descriptive list of features in OMS/OMI. It also lists the near-term developement goals.
/me prepares to lose huge amounts of karma once the mods hit. /me also takes the troll bait.
/. as being pirates. And also to the god-believing members of /. you just accused of sinning. Give this man a cookie, he's almost a MPAA drone already.
Well, congratulations for blanketing everyone who reads
As i look over to my left, i see about 10 dvd's (I started late, ok) that are practically useless coasters in my dvd drive under *ANY* os other than a windows based os.
Choice, it's all about choice, nothing more, nothing less. Can I pirate dvd's easier w/ this, yes. Will I, NO!!! Just because I can doesn't mean I WILL.
It's like saying that because I know how to build a atomic-bomb, I will, and I will launch it at you all in your sleep. C'mon, use the white tissue between your shoulders, I WANT TO WATCH MY MOVIES, period, end-of story.
Your gun analogy is retarded as it is not legal to kill anyways. If it were illegal to even watch a DVD (obviously false) then your analogy might be correct. Nice try for you though.
A better analogy with guns: (the situation is completely fictional)
Suppose you have an H&K gun and H&K demands you to use H&K-approved bullets. Suppose Steyr makes bullets that you can use in an H&K too. Now you've got your H&K gun, but the Steyr bullets are a LOT cheaper. What would you do?
The gun is yours. There are legal uses of a gun. The conclusion? Provided that your use of the gun is legal, you can choose whatever bullet. Then, the H&K license is legally invalid.
It's a logically trivial conclusion. I wish it is so to you as well.
Does the DVDCCA have a patent on the algorithm?
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
Yeah. That's it.
I'm paid to read slashdot
Bwahahaha... right.
Like the MPAA cares about the opinions of a handful of geeks. I'm just an ordinary guy who happens to believe in upholding the pillars of society. You start circumventing the laws and society starts to tumble down- ever read Kant, or the Socratic Dialogues by Plato?
Dragging people kicking and screaming into reality since 1996.
While I'm glad to see that we've finally got viable DVD players for my favourite OS, I wonder about the picture quality. My (uber-picky) graphics person and I got a Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 2040u and a Mitsubishi Plus 200, respectivly. Both are 22", super flat screens. His is running off a 400Mhz G4 with MacOS and the stock video card (ATI Rage 128 Pro, I believe). I'm running a Guillemot 32MB Geforce2 MX on an Athlon 600 (not T-bird).
We played the Matrix on both, first the G4 (Apple DVD Player). Oh my God, I had to change my shorts and take a long shower. This was the best picture I have ever seen. I would swear watching full screen (1600x1200) from the G4 was comparable to being in the theatre as far as picture quality and lack of artifacts goes. We also watched a 320x240 quicktime of Battle Angel Alita, blown up to full screen. The ATI card apearently has a video scaling chip in it, the lack of artifacts (there were still some, heh it was 320x240), and the color quality was exellent.
We tested the Matrix on my box under Win2K and the WinDVD 2.3 software DVD player. Less clarity, colors were a little washed out comparitively (yes we tweaked contrast and brightness on monitor and in DVD player), and the video jittered every now and then (the G4 was as smooth as ).
I'm pretty sure that my hardware has the horsepower to hold it's own against the Apple solution, but they really put a lot of quality into they're software when it comes to multimedia applications.
I just hope that the resources being thrown at Linux DVD don't slow down at 'ok we did it'. IMNSHO, Apple's platform has set a high standard, which is why my graphics developer uses Adobe products on MacOS rather than GIMP and friends on Linux (He does a lot of high end print and 3D work, not just web design).
Besides I'm really tired of running over and having him check out the latest and greatest achievements from the Open Source community, just to have him yawn and produce a list of lacking features and quality. It's making me look bad dammit!!!
But in seriousness, this is great, just as I applaud every release of GIMP, GNOME, KDE and many of the other awesome projects that make using UNIX systems easier, I really must produce a sober reminder that we still aren't the best, or even in running for the top spot, when it comes to quality and richness of features in multimedia stuff.
These are the same reasons that Windows never won over the graphics market (surprise, it wasn't just fanaticism), so we really can't feel bad, the bar is that high.
I hope that one day soon my graphics developer will thank me when I put Yellow Dog or LinuxPPC on his G4. I've already got it on my 1999 PowerBook (did I mention Apple makes great hardware)
So thanks for everyones hard work, it's looking like a great start.
Arrogance is Confidence which lacks integrity. -- me
Windows had kernel threads in 1993? Ack. Did you ever try to use them? Wait, did Win32 even exist in 1993?
This is the true reason we need to support the MPAA. If they lose money to piracy, tit quality will only go down.
That point aside: the difference between games and motion pictures, is that they capture and display a MUCH different environment and media. games draw smooth sharp lines with clear borders and edges from prewritten data, while a camera captures real life, which is natrually "anti-aliased" and smooth in motion. The capturing of smooth curves and fuzzy edges give a realaistic motion blur to the film, thus making the higer frame rate uneeded to convey a natrual representation of life.
Some people do compain about the lack of framerate in a standard film, but the vast majority find it more than comfortable and smooth to watch.
in response to a lower post: dvds actually have 30 frames per second. Im not sure how they transition from 24 to 30? (at least the ones I have watched (region 1) have 30. :)
what takes more time - fundamental research, or just get the things already in place and glue them together? - just mz $0.02, but worth a thought
I'll leave the legal issues out for now
The problem is that only some of the sectors are encrypted, and you have to parse the IFO files. And I don't know if a multiple title DVD would have multiple keys and create a management issue.
Theoretically you could do it (probably as a patch to udffs, not the DVD layer), but you would have to determine what sectors were encrypted and which were not, and do the DVD ioctls to do the key handshake before you could access those sectors, then you would have to decrypt just those sectors and not the plaintext sectors.
In sum, you couldn't just do a loopback device css decryption (which might require doing the 2048 bytes sectors).
It also doesn't buy you much if you don't fix the bits that says the disk is encrypted to prevent double-decryption.
Since the DVD player needs to decode the IFO files anyway (which is why The Matrix doesn't work just sending the VOB to the decoder), you get the crypt/noncrypt info "for free".
Any DVD is mountable as udf and all I've seen as iso9660, so that isn't an issue.
And once the DVD has done the key exchange with the drive (css-auth), all sectors are available, but some are encrypted.
If someone knows of an easy way to figure out which title keys apply to which encrypted sectors without going through the effort of parsing everything it would be much easier.
Foolish Mortal.
I get 24fps rock-solid on my celeron 400, using XFree86 4.0.1 and a GeforceMX.
- Pizza
-- I ain't broke, but I'm badly bent.
And then Slashdot makes sure that most people can't reach the site.
That would probably work.
But IMHO, a better solution would be to integrate CSS decoding right into the DVD filesystem. So then when you export it, it would already be decrypted.
---
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Think about it. The average user cannot copy the disk because the "blank" disks have an area burnt into them that contains data necessary for the playing of the disk. (real money-making pirates have no trouble getting "real" blank disks, so this does nothing to them). There is no reason for the contents of this area to be secret, you would be unable to play the copied disk anyway because the necessary data is missing. Other schemes that would work are "intelligent" DVD burners that would refuse to write anything recognized as a DVD, thus destroying the data so bad that it is useless. (Of course SlashDot would hate this stuff as well, but I am just pointing out that the "encryption" has nothing to do with piracy prevention).
The encryption's job is to make it impossible to get the data off the disk into viewable form without using a program under the manufacturers control, thus linking you to other "features" of this program that are not in your interest.
It is true that one of the "features" is that you cannot send the decoded output to storage. This does interfere with piracy. But not much, as still nothing is preventing the contents of the DVD from being copied to another storage, and I doubt there is much technical obstacles stopping the DVD player from being fooled into reading from this storage instead.
Isn't it just a matter of supply and demand? As long as the video players are dominant the DVD is an item which is going to be more expensive. After all it is not just the manufacturing cost that goes into a DVD's price but the Digitalization, Creating sound tracks in N different languages and subtitles in even more languages. On top of that comes the cost of new production facilities and development costs that have to be paid off etc.. etc....
The prices of DVD should go down with time as the technology becomes more popular. Unless the price is KEPT high artificially by the DVD/movie crowd. Which is a rape of everithing our free market system is supposed to be.
For better or for worse, da Rabbit has spoken!!
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
Sure Xine is great, but don't give the developers too much credit as they "only" developed the frontend and all the "real" work is done by software from the OMS people (mpeg2dec, ac3dec). The em8300 (h+, dxr3) support is a totally independent project and yes, it works with OMS too.
The rumor is that OMS still doesn't have any method for properly synchronizing video and audio. Why would someone put a 1.0 stamp on something that doesn't handle this basic problem?
--
OMS doesn't use DeCSS, never has (well not as long as I've been using it, for more than a year)
Nevertheless, they do NOT have a license from the DVD CCA, so therefore, it's illegal.
You long-haired, communistic slash-thieves might not like to admit it, but you're violating the creator's rights whenever you watch a DVD under linux.
----
Deepthroat my submarine, swallow my seamen.
Couldn't have said it better myself. QED.
Dragging people kicking and screaming into reality since 1996.
The performance of oms is a bit disappointing, imo. Using a 1 GHz athlon with 256 megs of ram, under gnome in redhat 7, the dvd's framerate fluctuates between 20 and 24 fps. After a while, sound tends to desynchronize itself (using the 2.4 kernel's sblive! driver), and about halfway through a dvd, it stops playing.
After reading a post here, I decided to give xine a try. It's much better. Video is smooth, sound syncs better, and I can watch the end of my dvd's!
One less reason to reboot into windows...
ck
What happens between me and my gerbil is no business of yours.
God, how I wish that was true.
----
Deepthroat my submarine, swallow my seamen.
You, baby- only you.
Dragging people kicking and screaming into reality since 1996.
Wouldn't it be possible to include the css decryption in the device driver for the DVD player, so that one could mount the DVD like any other portable media - just a thought. //Anders
Ive spent a little over an hour now going over all of the posts that you'll have been submitting, and im AMAZED that some of youll are so stupid and are puppets my the MPAA
They have you fooled into thinking they own you. the same people that are fooled into thinking Microsoft is the only way. You call us communists? You call us criminals? fucking shit, dd if=/dev/cdrom of=dvdimage.iso is perfect for trading DVDs, this shit isnt gonna make people wanna pirate movies. Youll are crazy to say 'Look you communists, you need an authorized player, thats the way. THIS IS ILLEGAL' It really pisses me off, your morons if this is your thinking. You bought the damn thing, you bought the DVD player, what does it matter? CSS doesnt stop me from ripping the disc. It just is a form of control. This is just common sense. Picture this you Windows lovers: Microsoft decides to make it to where you have to have an authorized copy of Windows media player that you have to pay for to look at your little windows media files. What would you do? Thats right, youd get the little shareware version. Of course you wouldnt code it yourselves, you dont have the knowledge. Is that why you flame us? Because
we have the SKILL to do stuff ourselves? Its really starting to piss me off.
I cant wait for the day when corporations dont have people literally brainwashed. thats what youll are... ill be glad when Mozilla is the browser of choice, where noone uses Windows. It will happen. Why? Because we can make things perfect. We have freedom. I know that you posters dont know what freedom is, but its not having to 'have an authorized player to play the DVD youve purchased'
This is just my rant, i hope someone reads it, please reply if you agree, and if you disagree, your too brainwashed, in love with Mircosoft, and have an intimate relationshit with your reset button, feel free to reply too (then just walk in front of a bus)
Posted anonymously since i know some will disagree, but really, the post tries not to be a flame/troll, but my anger is in there, so im sure it may seem like it....
The MPAA has hired hands whose job it is to troll the boards like slashdot. Yes virginia, there really are slashwhores.
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
The D's definetly the D's you can squeeze them and fondle them and do all sorts of other fun things to them ;)
You can only look at the V.
Da Rabbit
-- Thank you m'am! Thank you m'am! Thank you m'am! Oops! Sorry Sam!
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
There is also an official announcement for OMS.
My guess would be Cruel Intentions...
Actually, that's sounding about right! OMS has hideous performance... :-(
Derek Greene
Unfortunately they aren't brave enough to bundle the CSS plug-in with it. In fact they've gone to great length to make it very unvisible and must be found here.
Have fun!
Derek
Derek Greene
What leglislation requires such a licence? Nowhere on any DVD which I own can I see any mention of only being allowed to play it on a licenced player. By purchasing a DVD I am purchasing (amongst other things) a licence to watch/listen to the content in my own home. So where does this licence preclude playing the DVD in a (legally puchased) DVD drive on a computer running any OS the owner chooses to use?
you know, its pretty sad that someone would even waste the time to post such trash btw, im not jewish, nor do i really care that much, but its just childish and stupid and this is comming from a redneck
Well, 6 fps is not normal. You probably just didnt configure it properly. A duron 700 should be able to get 25fps+ easily.
Buying a Dell computer is equivalent to dropping the soap in a prison shower.
So... how do I get it to not segfault on start?
/home/rothwell/dvd/vlc/./gvlc
Tried the unstalbe release and today's CVS.
Starting program:
VideoLAN Client - version 0.2.60 Urumov - (c)1996-2000 VideoLAN
Cannot access memory at address 0x231
(gdb) bt
#0 _dl_debug_state () at dl-debug.c:56
#1 0x4000ac3b in _dl_catch_error (errstring=0xbffff770,
operate=0x40130990 , args=0xbffff774) at dl-error.c:141
#2 0x40130d3d in _dl_open (
file=0x80b2e58 "/usr/local/lib/videolan/vlc/idctclassic.so", mode=2,
caller=0xbffff770) at dl-open.c:232
#3 0x400323d3 in dlopen_doit (a=0xbffff884) at dlopen.c:41
#4 0x4000ac3b in _dl_catch_error (errstring=0x80a67d8,
operate=0x400323a8 , args=0xbffff884) at dl-error.c:141
#5 0x400328b9 in _dlerror_run (operate=0x400323a8 ,
args=0xbffff884) at dlerror.c:125
#6 0x40032393 in __dlopen_check (
file=0x80b2e58 "/usr/local/lib/videolan/vlc/idctclassic.so", mode=2)
at dlopen.c:53
#7 0x8094ec7 in AllocateDynModule ()
#8 0x0 in ?? ()
(gdb)
- - - - -
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
A disc is a storage medium containing data files, not a computer or analytical device. The player plays the data files. How the heck is a disc supposed to be able to do any sort of "detect" on the player and make any sort of determination on whether or not it wants to play?
Them being Jews has nothing to do with it. Of any color or nation, capitalists exploit people. It is the capitalist nature to grow bigger and bigger and to crush the smaller.
And why are whites white and blacks "colored people"? Because white isn't a color? Neither is black! Never got that one.
Stop racism. And "positive" discrimination is as bad.
It seems we have gone from none to too many movie solutions for the free unices. I am amazed at the sheer amount of duplication, but I guess that is the way we do things in the free software world.
GPL Movie systems listed from most mature to least, imo:
Has anyone mentioned the cracking pair of baps on that site?
What you say?!?
http://www.dniguild.org/carmack_base.jpg
--=matthew j.h + --=design lead + --=heavy pixel +
it's cruel intentions. if you had a girlfriend you would know this. hahaha (i need some ass).
We'll see.
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
Q. Who would WANT to download commie hippie shit like that?
A. NOBODY.
So, therefore, Napster steals from artists who DON'T want their art disseminated FOR FREE by rich college students.
Die, Theftster, Die.
----
Deepthroat my submarine, swallow my seamen.
illegal in the US != illegal everywhere
Nuff said.
//rdj
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
That is a point I left out. I Cant think or everyting I suppose. I certainly did not mean to offend everyones Capitalist sentiments with Marxism.... Tovarich! :)
The analogy you draw between tapes and CD's is exactly the same as between DVD and VHS. The higher quality and convenience of DVD is simply worth the price to the buying public. I was just trying to point out that New technologies tend to be obscenely expensive at first and than drop rapidly in price as production gets going.
Also it is easy to reduce pricing of DVD's CD's and such to production cost. There is alot more that goes into the price calculation than that . Including Cost of R&D, cost of building factories, cost of producing material you put on a DVD, attractiveness of product to the consumer, the greed of the manufactrurers, trade barriers, cost of disposing of product once it is thrown away , taxes. All of these factors influence price to a greter or lesser degree and I probably forgot to mention a legion of others.
Da Rabbit has spoken!
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
OK, I have only one question. What movie does this screenshot come from on the site?
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
(Of course SlashDot would hate this stuff as well, but I am just pointing out that the "encryption" has nothing to do with piracy prevention)
.mp3's being traded on the net is not illegal as long as no money changes hands .
That is true I am rather suprised that I have not been lynched yet here on slashdot for my approval of anti piracy mesures. I suppose the whole anti piracy issue is a hornets nest. On the one hand the normal user has a right to copy music and such for private use. At least here in Germany where the courts have just made a ruling in that direction (if my memory serves me correctly). Now
The real culprits are the bigtime pirates who make carbon copies of the CD/DVD and sell it by the container load. So why is the industry so worried about the normal consumer making copies with his recorder? It would seem more logical to go after the big boys. That is where all the big bucks are lost. But maybe the DVD industry is like Greepeace. It is allways easyer to pick on the little guy than to take on the real bastards. The problem is of course that it is impossible to maintain the littly guys right to copy his DVD for non personal use without opening the floodgates to piates. So assuming that it is possible to create an "intelligent" DVD that is it impossoble to make a carbon copy of onto a "blank" disc that still left a window open for the normal user to copy material form the DVD to storage all the Pirate would have to do is rip the disc and create his own non CSS DVD that he could sell. Unless of course we get nonsense like DVD drives refusing to play anything but CSS DVD's which makes recording home movies onto DVD pointless because you can not play it.
The conclusion is that allthough I understand perfectly well why some one would want to prevent his work from being pirate copied and sold and support peoples right to copyright protect their creations to make money off them. I am afraid that anyone trying to prevent Piracy of digital media is probably going to discover sooner or later that he is jousting with windmills.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
we're not simply reading from it, you have to be able to send keys to it or something in order to unlock the drive if it has a dvd in it. That's why... it can't be done through.
So I tried OMS a few months ago and it took me about 6 hours to get everything compiled because there where many wierd little things that just didn't seem to work. For instance one library had a broken Makefile. Anyways once I finally got it working I was very disapointed because I only got about 3 frames a second. Now granted this isn't a very powerful machine but I play DVD's in software in windows all the time and have never had a problem. So when I saw that OMS had been released I was very excited hoping that it would fix my problems. Well I downloaded it and compiled it which only took about 20 minutes this time and started it up but got nothing. Not a single frame. So I read a few of the posts on here and downloaded VideoLAN. I tried it first on my laptop which is running rh7 (with all the updates) and was unable to get it to compile. I just got about 1000 lines saying /tmp/ccADnK2N.s:5517: Error: suffix or operands invalid for 'paddw'
So I tried it on my desktop which is running rh6.2 and it compiled just fine but frame rates where less than one a second. Needless to say I was not happy about this. So next I tried xine. By this point I was sick of compiling so I grabbed a rpm and stuck it on my laptop. Well it got about a frame every 3 seconds. So I'm wondering if anyone has any tricks to getting better performance out of any of these players. Currently I only boot my laptop into windows to paly DVD's and life would be wonderful if I didn't have to do that. Thanks all.
Angel
Slashdot: News for common criminals, stuff for petty thiefs.
No wonder this place gets no respect in the real media.
Dragging people kicking and screaming into reality since 1996.
I also heard the same on various newsgroups. WinDVD is supposedly superior to PowerDVD in terms of picture and sound qualities.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
dvds actually have 30 frames per second
Some do, particularly TV shows, and almost all anime in the US. The set top DVD players available can play 24/25fps film at 30fps (on NTSC) sometimes by manipulating extra information encoded in the stream and also interpolating it by taking advantage of the interlace frame scanning.
In the creation of a film, each frame is exposed to light for a period of time. This period of time is extremely brief, but even so is enough that moving objects will be captured with some degree of "motion blur".
In contrast, games display images of stationary objects (objects without motion blur) one after another. It takes many more computer graphic frames to make motion look as smooth as film images with motion blur.
"Be Happy or Die." -- AoN
Your argument makes no sense. The encryption is there only to prop up region coding - And region coding is actually their anti-piracy attempt, more or less. It's an attempt to make sure that DVDs will be sold for the appropriate prices.
Anyway, the encryption doesn't stop you from making a copy of the DVD and playing it somewhere else. It only stops you (ostensibly - obviously DeCSS will let you do it) from translating DVD into other formats digitally.
--
ALL YOUR KARMA ARE BELONG TO US
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
While the posting I am responding to was an absurd troll, it's possible that someone might take it seriously, so I'll respond to be on the safe side.
... you get the idea. There's nothing new about DVD's that innately requires the manufacturer's rights to expand and the consumers' rights to be more restricted -- they're just taking advantage of a shift in technology to attempt to create new rights for themselves. And since those rights are based on trade secrets and not legal rights, it's just fine for people to counter that effort.
Once you buy a DVD, you own it and, and of course you have the right to view it. Of course, all rights must be balanced against other rights (e.g. freedom of assembly can be regulated to ensure public safety). It's absurd to compare playing a DVD you've purchased to shooting your own children.
The issues you raise about "script kiddies threatening the format" are off-base. DVD's can be copied without decrypting them, simply by duplicating them, and in fact well before CSS was cracked DVD's were widely pirated outside of the US because it's so easy (and DVD's are relatively overpriced compared to manufacturing costs). The only thing that encrypting DVD's does is make it difficult to produce a DVD player that doesn't enforce the region coding and licensing fees, and create all sorts of hassles for consumers of the sort that killed off the DAT format (where you often couldn't even copy your own personal recordings).
Keep in mind that many other media formats have succeeded without any encryption: radio, TV, newspapers, books, CD's, LP's, cassette tapes, VHS, laserdisk
A second issue might be the fact that the ATI card has hardware DVD support as opposed to being limited to software support. Just like with modems (winmodem) software support is not always the best or fastest since it takes some of your CPU time. The Guillemot card does not have hardware DVD to my knowledge. This discrepency between features could be cause for the differences that you are seeing. This might also be why players tweaked for ATI chipsets work better, by calling more on the DVD hardware than a pure software solution does.
"Do not be swept up in the momentum of mediocrity." - anon
> Isn't it just a matter of supply and demand?
Stop smoking crap. Does CD cost less than tapes ? Even for music digitally recorded, that sells more CDs than tapes, CDs are more expensive.
The only matter is "how much money can you milk from the consumer". People buying CDs have more money than people buying tapes, so you can charge more. Same holds for DVDs. Supply and demand is a fucked myth. There is an (potentially) infinite supply of DVDs as they are just bits. MPAA business model is buying laws to charge people. Works pretty well for now.
Cheers,
--fred
1 reply beneath your current threshold.
On your Windows test, you should have used either Cinemaster(on an ATI Chipset, using ATI DVD player) or PowerDVD (2.55+, 3.0 preferably), because those two players are well known to provide the highest support and the best picture on the Wintel platform. They're both software players, and should provide more than equal performance to the Apple G4, especially if you're matching the technology (i.e., using a ATI Rage128 or Radeon chipset with ATI DVD, which is what the G4 uses). Your results would probably hold up better on the x86 side then.
:)
Otherwise....those Mitsubishi monitors are nice aren't they? I picked up one of those Diamond Pro 200's myself about nine months ago...I love it
-Julius X
-Julius X
remove "-whatkindofspamdoyoutakemefor-" from email to send
I dont mind encrypted DVD's what I object to is the region coding. I understand perfectly why an artist, a studio or a softwaredeveloper wants to keep his/her movie/music/software from being pirated. After all they did put alot of effort, money, creativity and brainpower into producing it and want to be able to live off the results of their labour. Just like I (or any of I assume) do not want to slave away for years to pay for a car only to have it stolen a week after buying it. I do not save for a car so that some lazy bastard can get a car for free.
What bugs me is this whole reginon code nonsense. There is really no reason for it to exist other than to create artificial trade barriers. I do not mind paying for DVD movies but I will continue to approve of efforts like OMS while idiotic schemes like Region codes continue to come out of messed up brains of Hollywood beancounters.
For better or for worse, Da Rabbit has spoken!!
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
No, it's illegal in the same way that breaking and entering is illegal- you break the lock on the dvd, then you 'look around inside'. No again... its like breaking the lock on the dvd YOU OWN, and then viewing the Data that YOU OWN, its like breaking into your own HOUSE, and getting in trouble for not getting a LICENSE TO USE THE DOOR.... Its the end of the world as we know it, and I feel Fine......
It isn't mentioned on the Livid-site (they mention support for dxr2, but not dxr3), but there IS an OMS-plugin for RealMagic Hollywood and Creative dxr3 -cards here. Don't know why the OMS-site doesn't seem to know about it though.
and I feel Fine......
Not me buddy. These assholes are why the only music I'll ever own from now on will be animation soundtracks and my own.
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
You want some more of my karma? Take it from this post, then. My post was not offtopic; If anything, it was flamebait. THIS is offtopic.
Dillweed.
--
ALL YOUR KARMA ARE BELONG TO US
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Any help is welcome (hint, hint)
MPAA: (Re)move DeCSS. For great justice.
The encryption is there only to prop up region coding.
....wants to keep his/her movie/music/software from being pirated.
Right that is what encryption IS there for.
This is what they SAY encryption is there for.
Now if they wanted to encrypt DVD's to keep them from being pirated (next to impossible unless you can also enshure that the DVD can not be cloned or the material copied to a file) I could care less. But how the hell does Region encoding do anything to inhibit pirating????
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
You can stop the pirates just as well (ie poorly) with a completely open system, provided you make it illegal to sell blank disks without an unwritable track burned into them. It does not matter whether the contents of this track are secret or not, as in either case somebody could outwit this with hardware or software that provides the data on this track. That cannot be prevented, but if all commercial devices cannot do this it would make the bulk pirates job a lot harder!
Since the existing scheme does nothing to stop the bulk pirates, it is apparent it's goal is something else. Like many here, I believe it is to control the players, so that users cannot fast forward through ads, and so that a pay-per-view system can be gradually implemented in the future.
Well - as everyone knows (or maybe i'm a big dork and only I care about this stuff) - the printed world (which had been around longer than the projected world (such as computer monitors, tv, movies)) uses subtractive color. In Subtractive color - you use Cyan, Magenta, Yellow, and Black. Technically, C, M and Y produce black when mixed, but it usually ends up muddy brown because of dye imperfections, so they use the color Black. So - there is a color black, and white is just assumed to exist.
In the additive color world (projected light) black is assumed to exist, while white is the combination of all the colors (Red, Blue, and Green)
You have to remember, that when the phrase "colored" started to be used - there weren't many computers, movie theatres, or TV's around - so the world was used to subtractive color which states that white is not a color, and black is.
Not saying anything about calling people names or anything is right - just providing some info
slashdot username - at - email.domain.name
Xine support is so much more advanced. check it out. Support is even being build for the em8300 chipset DVD-Decoder card + Xine!
Didn't you hear? "Rogue players" have been changed to "players of concern."
-schussat
The hour of noon has passed. Let us go and get some Kentucky Fried Chicken.
Depends on the DVD of course. DVDs made from things that came out on film are at 24fps. A NTSC DVD player converts this to 60 fields/sec using a process called a 4/3 pulldown. A PAL DVD player would convert it to 25 fps by just playing it faster.
If your DVD is from something that wasn't shot on film, like porn, then it would be 30fps.