Well what would anyone logically expect after years of influence and propaganda being foisted upon the populations of the world, through television. Instead of being the invention that would revolutionize the world in positive ways, it's more or less used to control populations to any number of observable outcomes.
The "awakening" if you will has been the internet. It has become the great equalizer. I'll give one example.
The Gulf of Tonkin
It never happened. Given this fact why hasn't the MSM channels done huge docu-journals on it? Why hasn't the American president apologized for the war?
I find it rather unnerving that so many people are caught up on calling others' "conspiracy theorists" now days as well. It's as if it gives them some secret insider holier-than-thou french tickle inside, while climbing the moral mountain of so what....
Ignorance tends to go both ways.
I tend to think it comes down to one thing. People simply hate to be proven wrong. That derives mostly out of a fear of....well fear. Fear they will seem inadequate or untrustworthy to friends, family and co-workers, etc.
WTC Technical Information Repository Attn: Stephen Cauffman, NIST, 100 Bureau Dr., Stop 8611, Gaithersburg, Md. 20899-8610.
Dear Sirs:
I have examined the documents you provided on your theory of the collapse of WTC 7 due to fires by way of thermal expansion. It is apparent that you have spent a great deal of time, effort, money and thought on this project.
However, like Ptolemyâ(TM)s Theory of Epicycles, you begin with a faulty and unproven assumption. It is also the least likely assumption based on the evidence. Therefore, although your computer modeling may be intricate, your results are completely speculative and have no connection with the reality of what happened to that building. You are simply âoeadding epicyclesâ to a theory based on a false premise.
Your theory essentially rests on two physical observations:
1. There were office fires in WTC 7 that burned for some hours.
2. The building completely collapsed.
Observation 1 is not in dispute, except as to the location, extent, and effect of the fires. You never observed these fires from inside the building, and you have no actual measurements of the thermal expansion and deformation of the structural steel beams whatever. You never examined any of the steel.
Observation 2 runs contrary to 100 years of experience with the behavior of steel-framed buildings that have caught on fire. Every one of them was subjected to thermal expansion, but never before has there been such a collapse. To now postulate that a collapse did occur due to office fires is the height of scientific recklessness.
Your consideration of hypothetical blast scenarios (Appendix D) is disingenuous, to say the least. You rule out a possible blast on the basis that it would have been audible, but was not reported. You consider only RDX and C4, which is RDX-based and known to be noisy. RDX has been in use since WWII and C4 reportedly has been used by terrorists. It is simply not believable that foreign terrorists could have gained unobserved access to WTC 7 before 9/11 (scenario 1) or during the 6 hour interval prior to its collapse (scenario 2). Why did you not consider the use of thermite, thermate, nano-thermites, and other state of the art materials? As shown by Kevin Ryan, NIST has extensive knowledge of and experience with the latter materialsÂ.
In contrast to the non-existent observational basis for your theory, there exists a large and growing body of evidence, physical, eye-witness, anecdotal, and circumstantial, that points to controlled demolition as the reason for the buildingâ(TM)s collapse.
Millions of people worldwide are in ready possession of this evidence. Allow me to briefly review this evidence for you.
Physical Evidence for the Controlled Demolition of WTC 7
1. The rapid onset of collapse indicates controlled demolition. Natural collapses begin slowly as the steel deforms (but this has never before led to collapse from office fires).
2. The symmetrical, straight-down nature of the collapse. In a natural collapse, the building would tend to topple or show asymmetries.
3. The time taken by the collapse, approximately 6.5 seconds. This is almost free-fall speed and indicates little resistance, which is incomprehensible if natural. Your theory of a slower collapse within the outer frame of the building is outrageous speculation.
4. The neat, tidy debris pile, a few stories high, with adjoining buildings essentially untouched. Such a pile is the main objective and hallmark of controlled demolition.
5. The molten metal and high temperatures observed for weeks afterwards in the debris pile. Only incendiary and explosive materials, such as thermite, thermate, and nano-thermites could produce these temperatures. Parti
I respect your assertion but I'd ask for facts as to the statement. Who knows this to be the case? I'm asking for REAL documented facts here and I'm not being a "slashdotter" on this. From all I've seen it would be hard to even prove that "Al-Qaeda" is even a real movement at all. There does exist a huge resentment for U.S. foreign policy among the Middle East crowd, but who could blame them at this point? Hell the U.S. still can't back up that 9-11 was done by the so called hijackers. Stolen passports, dancing Israeli's filming it. The whole thing and cause for these wars is suspect.
Sorry you have over 4K invested in this stuff DumbSwede, because the reality is HD is going to be a moving target for some time to come. The fact is, I personally don't care one way or another. My posting was mostly a JOKE but as you can see, the "troll patrol" or slashdot "illuminati" have bestowed a negative scoring. Nonetheless, HD is coming. For those of us in the video industry (I'm a video editor) this is becoming more of a headache than a godsend. I for one don't WANT to have to be FORCED by ANYONE to BUY ANYTHING, just in order to work, watch entertainment, or to play on my computer. However, HD does just that was a cycle of multiple industry wide more of less "forced upgrades" in many areas. Sometimes technology really does become double-edged sword.
Out of Luck? Who cares. Most of these people were : 1) Stupid enough to be early adopters of newish technology without GUARANTEED update paths. 2) Had enough money to pay incredibly high prices then brag to their friends and family how much they PAID for it. 3) Probably wear gold necklaces on their chests (the men and the women) from the 70's disco days.
Soooo who cares. Adopt HD-DVD for the masses and be done with it!
Your castigating him is bordering on the absurd. For your stated reasoning, of being "concerned about a flame war". What in the fuck does that have to do with a REAL NEWS STORY that yes, has been reported here and other places before, have to do with your retort. Simply stated, you don't care about people watching, monitoring, controlling your driving habits etc. People who care are alarmed by this development....as you should too, if your head was a little more concerned about the ISSUE rather than some childish "flamewar". PATHETIC.
People need to go to the source of the REAL problems with this stuff..... ORIN HATCH. If folks are truly concerned we'd wage a total campaign war to unseat this fruitcake. He has a twisted history of supporting this kinda stuff.
Go by your local magazine rack and pickup a copy of DV magazine and dig in. The newest ideas that are coming down the pike lately are HDV cameras, VTR's etc. AND since Sony, Canon, JVC and Sharp are ALL on board for this newest of the new formats, you can be rest assured that it will become a defining standard for the DV world (Canon's XL2 is supposed to be HDV). If you want to get started right away check out all the eBay listings for Sony PD150's. It's a good solid camera that uses miniDV tapes and works well for most budding artists. As one post stated, and is TRUE, a lot of people have also chosen to go with the 24p Panasonic DVX100 because it gives a smooth transition to film. I'm gonna leave you with this tidbit though. It really all depends on how much you can spend, what acquistion you looking at going with, how your going to edit it and what the finally output needs to be...... Good luck with your new career!
Lettme see....first your comment about racism is absurd. Second, it should not be a question of conspiracy "theories" surrounding 9-11, rather conspiracy FACT since 9-11 occurred. Deciding whether the "official" story is true or not is quite a different endeavour altogether. I believe that the reports actually made allusions to cell phone calls and not in-flight phones. Regardless it's always seemed rather odd that terrorists would have let anybody make phone calls in the first place, for fear of being shot down and ruining their missions. Just think about the facts a little harder and tougher questions keep coming up...
Well hmmm, I believe you what I find interesting though is that's what we are all supposed to believe about people in planes on 9-11. That they made CELL PHONE calls to family and friends... Of course that seems and probably is impossible. On another note, how would CNN or news agency have gotten info on those "calls" so quickly? Any ideas Slashdoters?
Folks I hate to break it to ya but this type of stuff is the beginning of the end for privacy in the U.S. and abroad. Any lingering "wall" of privacy afforded to citizens trying to maintain personal discretion and private matters..well private is being torn down bit by bit. First it's the Patriot Act with it's slick naming scheme police state features and now it's the computer industry complying with it's handlers to figure out a way to make your data their data (remember that possession of 'property' is 9/10th's of the law...if any of us actually "owned" anything anymore anyway) What is this mess leading too? World Police Government....Sorry to spills the beans.
People need to understand a few principles before rationally contemplating what is happening to the transformation of the internet.
First, the U.S. Government is a corporate entity that is no different than the corporations it protects. The government protects it's interest, which also happens to be the commerce of the nation, which in turn happens to be the multi-facted head of the corporate machine in the United States.
With that said it will give you a better view of what is GOING to happen to the internet over the next couple of years in the wake of the âoefalse-flagâ operation called 9-11 (Yes, as shocking as it may be to some, 9-11 was a staged event. Do your homework and the truth will hit you like a ten-pound sledgehammer in the head.).
Second, since the U.S. Government is directly tied to the big media machine's interest it should come as no surprise that members of Congress are going to press for a huge policing of the net. It will hinge upon the peer-to-peer networks and directly target âoefile swappingâ. The RIAA and the MPAA will just love this type of enforcement because they cite these networks as the prime reason that their respective revenues have dropped over the past few years. They however, will ignore the fact that music content just plain sucks or that the ECONOMY is terrible and maybe people aren't buying their souless content because they need to eat and buy shoes. The main problem with this is that the onus of making the R and D necessary to protect the music and video industries products as âoedigitialy safeâ, is NOT the public's concern and nor should it be. I simply don't care how much it costs a multi-billion dollar media megahouse to develop a system of preventing piracy. However, what I do take offense at is when these same multi-billion dollar behemoths lobby Congress to write laws that WILL someday affect your freedoms. This is not the same as understanding copyright law. That would be a very welcome thing indeed. If the American public understood what the Constitution laid out about copyright law and how it's been abused by the corporate machine, then the laws would all be repealed in a heartbeat and new FAIR laws would replace them. However, that would take throwing out the scam-artist politicians out of both Houses of Congress first, which won't happen anytime soon.
Thirdly, the laws that are coming down the pike won't be limited to just MP3's and the occasional MPEG movie. Eventually these rapers of free speech and dissemination of information want to be able to target people being able to relay information that flies in the face of the national policy. Any content that can be seen as copyrighted will be âoeprotectedâ and thus be policed by the some federal agency. That means that eventually the system will be able to hold individuals accountable for trading important pieces of any copyrighted and written material. You see the point will be to halt the few exchange of ideas. The system wants total ignorance and a cover for the invisible veil of the inner mechanisms in the corporate structure.
Unless the people who have helped to create the wonders of the internet and the freedoms that it represents get onboard to protect it against abuse, then the last hope for a free vocal and democratic society in America is about to fall further down the rabbithole of fascism.
I don't understand why people don't phone, fax or write the people in Congress. They do hear us. However, they are often reluctant to do anything because they know that the populace rarely holds their feet to the fire over any issue. Only when the professional politicians are threatened, as in the case of re-election do they ask for your input. The ONLY remedy to our current problems threatening the very fabric of the democratic form of government in the United States, is a major third party presence in the Congress and White House, that can clean up the problems. That's the bottom line. More people active in politics and caring just a little bit more about who is in office than what J-Lo wears to the Oscars and things might change....until then we are sooooo screwed.
Slashdot Mirror
Well what would anyone logically expect after years of influence and propaganda being foisted upon the populations of the world, through television. Instead of being the invention that would revolutionize the world in positive ways, it's more or less used to control populations to any number of observable outcomes.
The "awakening" if you will has been the internet. It has become the great equalizer. I'll give one example.
The Gulf of Tonkin
It never happened. Given this fact why hasn't the MSM channels done huge docu-journals on it? Why hasn't the American president apologized for the war?
I find it rather unnerving that so many people are caught up on calling others' "conspiracy theorists" now days as well. It's as if it gives them some secret insider holier-than-thou french tickle inside, while climbing the moral mountain of so what....
Ignorance tends to go both ways.
I tend to think it comes down to one thing. People simply hate to be proven wrong. That derives mostly out of a fear of ....well fear. Fear they will seem inadequate or untrustworthy to friends, family and co-workers, etc.
http://www.911blogger.com/node/17578
WTC Technical Information Repository
Attn: Stephen Cauffman,
NIST, 100 Bureau Dr., Stop 8611,
Gaithersburg, Md. 20899-8610.
Dear Sirs:
I have examined the documents you provided on your theory of the collapse of WTC 7 due to fires by way of thermal expansion. It is apparent that you have spent a great deal of time, effort, money and thought on this project.
However, like Ptolemyâ(TM)s Theory of Epicycles, you begin with a faulty and unproven assumption. It is also the least likely assumption based on the evidence. Therefore, although your computer modeling may be intricate, your results are completely speculative and have no connection with the reality of what happened to that building. You are simply âoeadding epicyclesâ to a theory based on a false premise.
Your theory essentially rests on two physical observations:
1. There were office fires in WTC 7 that burned for some hours.
2. The building completely collapsed.
Observation 1 is not in dispute, except as to the location, extent, and effect of the fires. You never observed these fires from inside the building, and you have no actual measurements of the thermal expansion and deformation of the structural steel beams whatever. You never examined any of the steel.
Observation 2 runs contrary to 100 years of experience with the behavior of steel-framed buildings that have caught on fire. Every one of them was subjected to thermal expansion, but never before has there been such a collapse. To now postulate that a collapse did occur due to office fires is the height of scientific recklessness.
Your consideration of hypothetical blast scenarios (Appendix D) is disingenuous, to say the least. You rule out a possible blast on the basis that it would have been audible, but was not reported. You consider only RDX and C4, which is RDX-based and known to be noisy. RDX has been in use since WWII and C4 reportedly has been used by terrorists. It is simply not believable that foreign terrorists could have gained unobserved access to WTC 7 before 9/11 (scenario 1) or during the 6 hour interval prior to its collapse (scenario 2). Why did you not consider the use of thermite, thermate, nano-thermites, and other state of the art materials? As shown by Kevin Ryan, NIST has extensive knowledge of and experience with the latter materialsÂ.
In contrast to the non-existent observational basis for your theory, there exists a large and growing body of evidence, physical, eye-witness, anecdotal, and circumstantial, that points to controlled demolition as the reason for the buildingâ(TM)s collapse.
Millions of people worldwide are in ready possession of this evidence. Allow me to briefly review this evidence for you.
Physical Evidence for the Controlled Demolition of WTC 7
1. The rapid onset of collapse indicates controlled demolition. Natural collapses begin slowly as the steel deforms (but this has never before led to collapse from office fires).
2. The symmetrical, straight-down nature of the collapse. In a natural collapse, the building would tend to topple or show asymmetries.
3. The time taken by the collapse, approximately 6.5 seconds. This is almost free-fall speed and indicates little resistance, which is incomprehensible if natural. Your theory of a slower collapse within the outer frame of the building is outrageous speculation.
4. The neat, tidy debris pile, a few stories high, with adjoining buildings essentially untouched. Such a pile is the main objective and hallmark of controlled demolition.
5. The molten metal and high temperatures observed for weeks afterwards in the debris pile. Only incendiary and explosive materials, such as thermite, thermate, and nano-thermites could produce these temperatures. Parti
Can someone please, for the love of all things shiny
fix ShapeShifter a la FireFox, before I put a crack in someone's jack!
Gee you watched Fight Club one too many times...
Right....the story has changed 4 or 5 times over the years. The Barbara Olsen legend is the biggest example.
I respect your assertion but I'd ask for facts as to the statement. Who knows this to be the case? I'm asking for
REAL documented facts here and I'm not being a "slashdotter" on this. From all I've seen it would be hard
to even prove that "Al-Qaeda" is even a real movement at all. There does exist a huge resentment for
U.S. foreign policy among the Middle East crowd, but who could blame them at this point? Hell
the U.S. still can't back up that 9-11 was done by the so called hijackers. Stolen passports, dancing
Israeli's filming it. The whole thing and cause for these wars is suspect.
Thx for being the first asshole to respond. And we wonder why nobody takes this stuff seriously.
Now before you tinfoil hat rejected-debunker-super-sleuths-know-it-all-yuppie -hipster-techno types say one goddamn thing, read the article.3 0807_reverses_stance.htm
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2007/0
THANK YOU! At least someone had the balls to say it.
Sorry you have over 4K invested in this stuff DumbSwede, because the reality is HD is going to be a moving target for some time to come. The fact is, I personally don't care one way or another. My posting was mostly a JOKE but as you can see, the "troll patrol" or slashdot "illuminati" have bestowed a negative scoring. Nonetheless, HD is coming. For those of us in the video industry (I'm a video editor) this is becoming more of a headache than a godsend. I for one don't WANT to have to be FORCED by ANYONE to BUY ANYTHING, just in order to work, watch entertainment, or to play on my computer. However, HD does just that was a cycle of multiple industry wide more of less "forced upgrades" in many areas. Sometimes technology really does become double-edged sword.
Out of Luck? Who cares. Most of these people were :
1) Stupid enough to be early adopters of newish technology without GUARANTEED update paths.
2) Had enough money to pay incredibly high prices then brag to their friends and family how much they PAID for it.
3) Probably wear gold necklaces on their chests (the men and the women) from the 70's disco days.
Soooo who cares. Adopt HD-DVD for the masses and be done with it!
Your castigating him is bordering on the absurd. For your stated reasoning, of being "concerned about a flame war". What in the fuck does that have to do with a REAL NEWS STORY that yes, has been reported here and other places before, have to do with your retort. Simply stated, you don't care about people watching, monitoring, controlling your driving habits etc. People who care are alarmed by this development....as you should too, if your head was a little more concerned about the ISSUE rather than some childish "flamewar". PATHETIC.
People need to go to the source of the REAL problems with this stuff..... ORIN HATCH. If folks are truly concerned we'd wage a total campaign war to unseat this fruitcake. He has a twisted history of supporting this kinda stuff.
Go by your local magazine rack and pickup a copy of DV magazine and dig in. The newest ideas that are coming down the pike lately are HDV cameras, VTR's etc. AND since Sony, Canon, JVC and Sharp are ALL on board for this newest of the new formats, you can be rest assured that it will become a defining standard for the DV world (Canon's XL2 is supposed to be HDV). If you want to get started right away check out all the eBay listings for Sony PD150's. It's a good solid camera that uses miniDV tapes and works well for most budding artists. As one post stated, and is TRUE, a lot of people have also chosen to go with the 24p Panasonic DVX100 because it gives a smooth transition to film. I'm gonna leave you with this tidbit though. It really all depends on how much you can spend, what acquistion you looking at going with, how your going to edit it and what the finally output needs to be...... Good luck with your new career!
Lettme see....first your comment about racism is absurd. Second, it should not be a question of conspiracy "theories" surrounding 9-11, rather conspiracy FACT since 9-11 occurred. Deciding whether the "official" story is true or not is quite a different endeavour altogether. I believe that the reports actually made allusions to cell phone calls and not in-flight phones. Regardless it's always seemed rather odd that terrorists would have let anybody make phone calls in the first place, for fear of being shot down and ruining their missions. Just think about the facts a little harder and tougher questions keep coming up...
Well hmmm, I believe you what I find interesting though is that's what we are all supposed to believe about people in planes on 9-11. That they made CELL PHONE calls to family and friends... Of course that seems and probably is impossible. On another note, how would CNN or news agency have gotten info on those "calls" so quickly? Any ideas Slashdoters?
Folks I hate to break it to ya but this type of stuff is the beginning of the end for privacy in the U.S. and abroad. Any lingering "wall" of privacy afforded to citizens trying to maintain personal discretion and private matters..well private is being torn down bit by bit. First it's the Patriot Act with it's slick naming scheme police state features and now it's the computer industry complying with it's handlers to figure out a way to make your data their data (remember that possession of 'property' is 9/10th's of the law...if any of us actually "owned" anything anymore anyway) What is this mess leading too? World Police Government....Sorry to spills the beans.
The real reason will begin to emerge.......
People need to understand a few principles before rationally contemplating what is
happening to the transformation of the internet.
First, the U.S. Government is a corporate entity that is no different than the
corporations it protects. The government protects it's interest, which also happens to be
the commerce of the nation, which in turn happens to be the multi-facted head of the
corporate machine in the United States.
With that said it will give you a better view of what is GOING to happen to the internet
over the next couple of years in the wake of the âoefalse-flagâ operation called 9-11
(Yes, as shocking as it may be to some, 9-11 was a staged event. Do your homework
and the truth will hit you like a ten-pound sledgehammer in the head.).
Second, since the U.S. Government is directly tied to the big media machine's interest
it should come as no surprise that members of Congress are going to press for a
huge policing of the net. It will hinge upon the peer-to-peer networks and directly target
âoefile swappingâ. The RIAA and the MPAA will just love this type of enforcement because they cite these networks as the prime reason that their respective revenues have dropped over the past few years. They however, will ignore the fact that music content just plain sucks or that the ECONOMY is terrible and maybe people aren't buying their souless content because they need to eat and buy shoes. The main problem with this is that the onus of making the R and D necessary to protect the music and video industries
products as âoedigitialy safeâ, is NOT the public's concern and nor should it be. I simply
don't care how much it costs a multi-billion dollar media megahouse to develop a
system of preventing piracy. However, what I do take offense at is when these
same multi-billion dollar behemoths lobby Congress to write laws that WILL someday
affect your freedoms. This is not the same as understanding copyright law. That would
be a very welcome thing indeed. If the American public understood what the Constitution
laid out about copyright law and how it's been abused by the corporate machine, then
the laws would all be repealed in a heartbeat and new FAIR laws would replace them.
However, that would take throwing out the scam-artist politicians out of both
Houses of Congress first, which won't happen anytime soon.
Thirdly, the laws that are coming down the pike won't be limited to just MP3's and the
occasional MPEG movie. Eventually these rapers of free speech and dissemination
of information want to be able to target people being able to relay information that flies
in the face of the national policy. Any content that can be seen as copyrighted will be
âoeprotectedâ and thus be policed by the some federal agency. That means that eventually the system will be able to hold individuals accountable for trading important pieces of any copyrighted and written material. You see the point will be to halt the few exchange of ideas. The system wants total ignorance and a cover for the invisible veil of the inner
mechanisms in the corporate structure.
Unless the people who have helped to create the wonders of the internet and the freedoms
that it represents get onboard to protect it against abuse, then the last hope for a free vocal and democratic society in America is about to fall further down the rabbithole of fascism.
I don't understand why people don't phone, fax or write the people in Congress. They do hear us. However, they are often reluctant to do anything because they know that the populace rarely holds their feet to the fire over any issue. Only when the professional politicians are threatened, as in the case of re-election do they ask for your input. The ONLY remedy to our current problems threatening the very fabric of the democratic form of government in the United States, is a major third party presence in the Congress and White House, that can clean up the problems. That's the bottom line. More people active in politics and caring just a little bit more about who is in office than what J-Lo wears to the Oscars and things might change....until then we are sooooo
screwed.