Take the OS community. It is for rights to have collaborated projects used for the greater good. What if someone wants to use them for the greater bad. Who determines what is bad? We may disagree on that. Now what happens when a group try's to use the communtiry to profit? That is good but what if it destroys the community in the process?
On this last one I am not convinced one bit it is actually to profit. Doing this benefits Sun and Microsoft infinately more than it does SCO. Sure SCO's Execs will make money on the inflation of their stock before the bubble breaks but that is small patatoes as to what Microsoft and Sun get out of this.
Now who has licensed SCO's Unix... hmmm Sun and Microsoft. Now how does one go about investigating conspiracy by Sun and Microsoft to use SCO as a proxy for destroying Open Source specifically Linux?
I wouldn't quite call it FUD. I think it is more informational. If they painted a picture of crashing servers and millions of dollars needing to be spent if someone is using SCO it would be FUD'ish.
I don't think the wording will actually cause "fear" in anyone. This just lets them know to be ready.
I still believe that Red Hat SHOUDLN'T have sued SCO. Red Hat is going to be drained of money for a loooong time in court. Or do you simply think that by suing, they would win in a few weeks.
If you look at the flow of money into Red Hat over the years huge amounts have come from IBM and no doubt will in this case as well if they need it.
This won't take much money anyway. SCO with a weak case/no case wants to stay as far from a court room as possible. Their battles to raise money are coming from media hype surrounding threats to go to court. They can't actually go to court on this stuff and win, they know this.
To clarify that: I believe it will be better style, more modern and more of what many other languages use.
Obfuscating it up more wouldn't do anyone any good. Although it certainly looks like there will be a fair amount of obfuscation in P6 (it is Perl after all), Parrot is squeaky clean.
> If you are trying to copy BK, give it up. We'll simply follow in the > footsteps of every other company faced with this sort of thing and change > the protocol every 6 months. Since you would be chasing us you can never > catch up. If you managed to stay close then we'd put digital signatures > into the protocol to prevent your clone from interoperating with BK.
With mozilla firebird already being so tight and fast another thing I have taken a liking to is using UPX on the.exe's and.dll's in the dir. Compresses them down well for a very small footprint browser.
That gets my firebird directory as is, at 11 megs. Not bad.
I agree he's been way out of the loop. I just assumed everyone was switching to Moz Firebird and I think they are. No problems with their product it ROX on every system I use it on. Fast, mean customizeable and I actually can stop all the annoying crap websites want to throw at me.
1. Work on open source projects 2. No profit 3. Get jealous; go to.com startup; startup tanks 4. No profit 5. Return to open source projects 6. No profit
7. Being considered the leader of the FREE world, one of the best coders, most honorable people, having made a contribution to all of humanity instead of a contribution only to himself... 8. Priceless
if you follow the school of thought that all publicity is good publicity, at least this suit has gotten Linux mentioned in many places where it normally wouldn't be.
The entire reason this is being done is to plant FUD into the minds of IT and Business community about liablity in using Linux and Open Source alternatives. MS is behind it and they are doing what they do best. Planting FUD about a competitor.
On one hand you have to give them credit. No company in the history of mankind has ever done it better. On the other hand it is a low class, childish, unethical thing to do.
"Is the world scientific community somehow enriched more because Uwe in Vienna or Piet in Den Haag made the discovery before Steve in Alamogordo?"
Actually I think it is. Sad fact of space exploration is it currently needs tons of money to do. Right now governments are the prime source of this money and getting it involves a lot of politics.
Current administration in the US doesn't seem to be pushing the envelope in this area very heavily. I don't hear them really speak for or against it.
So getting a good jump start to this area would be most easily politically sold if the US started getting beat in the area. It will be very easy to scare the people with the defense money into spending it on space when China and the EU have more advanced systems and are working with the Russians on it.
I agree. Anything even touching the shuttle is taboo. Anything touching it at high speeds no matter what the nature of it should have raised bigger alarms than it did.
I think foam hitting the shuttle not doing any damage was a classic case of wishful thinking. Good engineers like this are exactly the people not suppose to do that kind of thinking.
Mistake was made but I think a lot will be learnt from it. If you look at some of the future shuttle designs you can see they already place the shuttle on top (in front depends how you look at it) so anything coming off doesn't hit the shuttle. This was a major design flaw having the shuttle in that position to the tanks and they know it.
I would just like to say good job to the developers and the project managers. The direction this part of Mozilla has gone has really put the icing on the cake for it being the best browser IMHO.
I use it Phoenix (ermmm I mean Firebird) now on every platform at work and at home. Love it.
Never have any popup problems, very quick and couldn't do without opening links in the background under a new tab as I browse the web then go to them when I am done reading what I am currently on.
What can Slashdot possibly contribute to this other than posting an article that is going to result in a whole lot of political flaming?
A discussion of above average intelligence posters.
If you look at the comments made from the reporters and "experts" on some of the other coverage, you'll notice this is not a difficult claim to back up:-).
I've found that 90% of the applications I've worked on end up using those advanced features sooner or later. Those features usually save a tremendous amount of time I would have otherwise had to spend writing code to make my database jump through hoops.
If you are coding against MySQL with Perl it is always just as easy to do what the trigger or stored procedure will do for you in code in a very short amount of time. That is why none of the real users of it could care less about such features.
Now, don't get me wrong, I hate MS as much as the next guy in the open source community, but doesn't this open up a slippery slope? Where does it stop?
Pure FUD.
The answer of course is it stops with this. Any of those products you mentioned for one are not programming languages and two, never had deals with MS to begin with like Sun did.
While not addressing smoking, mostly eating, these verses of the Quran state Muslims should eat the right things, thus respecting their bodies, etc. (not smoking) -
[2.168] O men! eat the lawful and good things out of what is in the earth, and do not follow the footsteps of the Shaitan (Satan); surely he is your open enemy.
[2.172] O you who believe! eat of the good things that We have provided you with, and give thanks to Allah if Him it is that you serve.
[5.88] And eat of the lawful and good (things) that Allah has given you, and be careful of (your duty to) Allah, in Whom you believe.
[16.114] Therefore eat of what Allah has given you, lawful and good (things), and give thanks for Allah's favor if Him do you serve.
[20.81] Eat of the good things We have given you for sustenance, and be not inordinate with respect to them, lest My wrath should be due to you, and to whomsoever My wrath is due be shall perish indeed.
[23.51] O apostles! eat of the good things and do good; surely I know what you do.
but that is not what is important. At least not to me, it is surely of importance to M$ but not because of the pirated version of XP but because people may start to realize it is possible to buy PC's without Windows on it.
It is of HUGE significance that PC's are going to be sold at Wal-Mart without Windows period. MS thought they had won this war. Doesn't matter if the setup sux or not. Because if a place as common as Wal-Mart is selling non MS PC's it is a huge deal to them. It is the smart thing to do for Wal-Mart and that is why Wal-Mart rox. They are not afraid to take some chances.
The big PC dealers all got too lazy to sell PC's without doze. This may get them to rethink that strategy.
It depends on your definition of mainstream. If it is that Grandma can use it, no it will not. Why? Because not to many Grandma's are involved in coding it.
I do however think that it will be in the majority of uses for software. Why? China and India. Nearly half of the worlds population lives in these two countries. They have some good schools and many good coders. There is no contest for if Open Source is a better solution for them so it will grow exponentially there.
In the US most people in big business IT think that they are saving money on having doze shops because they can get low level IT workers for cheap (wow did I say that nicely). In India and China all the workers are cheap and the governments hate doze so that puts a double wammy on closed source stuff (like it should in the US but does not).
Slashdot Mirror
Its a good question.
Take the OS community. It is for rights to have collaborated projects used for the greater good. What if someone wants to use them for the greater bad. Who determines what is bad? We may disagree on that. Now what happens when a group try's to use the communtiry to profit? That is good but what if it destroys the community in the process?
On this last one I am not convinced one bit it is actually to profit. Doing this benefits Sun and Microsoft infinately more than it does SCO. Sure SCO's Execs will make money on the inflation of their stock before the bubble breaks but that is small patatoes as to what Microsoft and Sun get out of this.
Now who has licensed SCO's Unix... hmmm Sun and Microsoft. Now how does one go about investigating conspiracy by Sun and Microsoft to use SCO as a proxy for destroying Open Source specifically Linux?
Anybody got any friends at the DOJ?
I wouldn't quite call it FUD. I think it is more informational. If they painted a picture of crashing servers and millions of dollars needing to be spent if someone is using SCO it would be FUD'ish.
I don't think the wording will actually cause "fear" in anyone. This just lets them know to be ready.
Yep.
SCO
Like you said yourself it "can" be dragged out. My strong opinion is it won't.
How long was it dragged out in Germany? Was over before it started because it is nonsense.
I still believe that Red Hat SHOUDLN'T have sued SCO. Red Hat is going to be drained of money for a loooong time in court. Or do you simply think that by suing, they would win in a few weeks.
If you look at the flow of money into Red Hat over the years huge amounts have come from IBM and no doubt will in this case as well if they need it.
This won't take much money anyway. SCO with a weak case/no case wants to stay as far from a court room as possible. Their battles to raise money are coming from media hype surrounding threats to go to court. They can't actually go to court on this stuff and win, they know this.
"You don't walk in, hand over a check and change a vote. Doesn't happen."
Of course not they send the money via PayPal, wait for funds to clear, then change their vote.
Is that supposed to satisfy any complaints?
To clarify that: I believe it will be better style, more modern and more of what many other languages use.
Obfuscating it up more wouldn't do anyone any good. Although it certainly looks like there will be a fair amount of obfuscation in P6 (it is Perl after all), Parrot is squeaky clean.
When I started using Perl 5 I figured it to be about 10 years ahead of its time. Being about 5 years since then I think I was pretty close to right.
Development of it is taking a long time but it has been worth it.
Some peoples minds don't seem to fit Perl 5 quite right and complain about it. Should have a lot more options of languages and style in P6.
Its a blazingly fast byte code interpreter. Having this Open Source is a very powerful thing and something many projects will find useful.
You can make Larry McVoy of BitKeeper #3.
3 /0 7/19/1728240&mode=thread&tid=185
http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=0
> If you are trying to copy BK, give it up. We'll simply follow in the
> footsteps of every other company faced with this sort of thing and change
> the protocol every 6 months. Since you would be chasing us you can never
> catch up. If you managed to stay close then we'd put digital signatures
> into the protocol to prevent your clone from interoperating with BK.
With mozilla firebird already being so tight and fast another thing I have taken a liking to is using UPX on the .exe's and .dll's in the dir. Compresses them down well for a very small footprint browser.
That gets my firebird directory as is, at 11 megs. Not bad.
I agree he's been way out of the loop. I just assumed everyone was switching to Moz Firebird and I think they are. No problems with their product it ROX on every system I use it on. Fast, mean customizeable and I actually can stop all the annoying crap websites want to throw at me.
"Steve Jobs simply loves the "wow" he gets from the audience by completely surprising them."
Like you are any more likey to know this than the original poster knowing it was a leak on purpose.
Stop being so naive, this was leaked to gain some free media attention, and by the looks of it, this worked very well.
1. Work on open source projects
2. No profit
3. Get jealous; go to
4. No profit
5. Return to open source projects
6. No profit
7. Being considered the leader of the FREE world, one of the best coders, most honorable people, having made a contribution to all of humanity instead of a contribution only to himself...
8. Priceless
if you follow the school of thought that all publicity is good publicity, at least this suit has gotten Linux mentioned in many places where it normally wouldn't be.
The entire reason this is being done is to plant FUD into the minds of IT and Business community about liablity in using Linux and Open Source alternatives. MS is behind it and they are doing what they do best. Planting FUD about a competitor.
On one hand you have to give them credit. No company in the history of mankind has ever done it better. On the other hand it is a low class, childish, unethical thing to do.
"Is the world scientific community somehow enriched more because Uwe in Vienna or Piet in Den Haag made the discovery before Steve in Alamogordo?"
Actually I think it is. Sad fact of space exploration is it currently needs tons of money to do. Right now governments are the prime source of this money and getting it involves a lot of politics.
Current administration in the US doesn't seem to be pushing the envelope in this area very heavily. I don't hear them really speak for or against it.
So getting a good jump start to this area would be most easily politically sold if the US started getting beat in the area. It will be very easy to scare the people with the defense money into spending it on space when China and the EU have more advanced systems and are working with the Russians on it.
I agree. Anything even touching the shuttle is taboo. Anything touching it at high speeds no matter what the nature of it should have raised bigger alarms than it did.
I think foam hitting the shuttle not doing any damage was a classic case of wishful thinking. Good engineers like this are exactly the people not suppose to do that kind of thinking.
Mistake was made but I think a lot will be learnt from it. If you look at some of the future shuttle designs you can see they already place the shuttle on top (in front depends how you look at it) so anything coming off doesn't hit the shuttle. This was a major design flaw having the shuttle in that position to the tanks and they know it.
I would just like to say good job to the developers and the project managers. The direction this part of Mozilla has gone has really put the icing on the cake for it being the best browser IMHO.
I use it Phoenix (ermmm I mean Firebird) now on every platform at work and at home. Love it.
Never have any popup problems, very quick and couldn't do without opening links in the background under a new tab as I browse the web then go to them when I am done reading what I am currently on.
't' has to much space after it in "Bitstream Vera Sans Mono".
Anybody else think so?
What can Slashdot possibly contribute to this other than posting an article that is going to result in a whole lot of political flaming?
:-).
A discussion of above average intelligence posters.
If you look at the comments made from the reporters and "experts" on some of the other coverage, you'll notice this is not a difficult claim to back up
I've found that 90% of the applications I've worked on end up using those advanced features sooner or later. Those features usually save a tremendous amount of time I would have otherwise had to spend writing code to make my database jump through hoops.
If you are coding against MySQL with Perl it is always just as easy to do what the trigger or stored procedure will do for you in code in a very short amount of time. That is why none of the real users of it could care less about such features.
Now, don't get me wrong, I hate MS as much as the next guy in the open source community, but doesn't this open up a slippery slope? Where does it stop?
Pure FUD.
The answer of course is it stops with this. Any of those products you mentioned for one are not programming languages and two, never had deals with MS to begin with like Sun did.
While not addressing smoking, mostly eating, these verses of the Quran state Muslims should eat the right things, thus respecting their bodies, etc. (not smoking) -
[2.168] O men! eat the lawful and good things out of what is in the earth, and do not follow the footsteps of the Shaitan (Satan); surely he is your open enemy.
[2.172] O you who believe! eat of the good things that We have provided you with, and give thanks to Allah if Him it is that you serve.
[5.88] And eat of the lawful and good (things) that Allah has given you, and be careful of (your duty to) Allah, in Whom you believe.
[16.114] Therefore eat of what Allah has given you, lawful and good (things), and give thanks for Allah's favor if Him do you serve.
[20.81] Eat of the good things We have given you for sustenance, and be not inordinate with respect to them, lest My wrath should be due to you, and to whomsoever My wrath is due be shall perish indeed.
[23.51] O apostles! eat of the good things and do good; surely I know what you do.
Salams
Who cares, who goes to Wal-Mart to buy CD's anyway.
All of them...
but that is not what is important. At least not to me, it is surely of importance to M$ but not because of the pirated version of XP but because people may start to realize it is possible to buy PC's without Windows on it.
It is of HUGE significance that PC's are going to be sold at Wal-Mart without Windows period. MS thought they had won this war. Doesn't matter if the setup sux or not. Because if a place as common as Wal-Mart is selling non MS PC's it is a huge deal to them. It is the smart thing to do for Wal-Mart and that is why Wal-Mart rox. They are not afraid to take some chances.
The big PC dealers all got too lazy to sell PC's without doze. This may get them to rethink that strategy.
It depends on your definition of mainstream. If it is that Grandma can use it, no it will not. Why? Because not to many Grandma's are involved in coding it.
I do however think that it will be in the majority of uses for software. Why? China and India. Nearly half of the worlds population lives in these two countries. They have some good schools and many good coders. There is no contest for if Open Source is a better solution for them so it will grow exponentially there.
In the US most people in big business IT think that they are saving money on having doze shops because they can get low level IT workers for cheap (wow did I say that nicely). In India and China all the workers are cheap and the governments hate doze so that puts a double wammy on closed source stuff (like it should in the US but does not).