I do understand your point, but in this case the individual I mentioned (who IS in the IT dept.) does nothing but obstruct, and his method is bureauocracy (sp?) in the extreme. Trust me, nothing but termination will keep him from grandstanding in meetings and bringing up superfluous problems, so this is not a worry.
We're re-engineering a process, throwing stuff out and discovering what's do-able and what's not. The concerns and issues involved are real, but many are simply what I'd call "dragging the walrus", which means that we don't actually HAVE to support every single exception that's ever been done because we're also going to set new guidelines for how the input (in this case scannable documents) are going to be delivered. So there's a lot of cruft there that really does NOT need to be handled in the future. To make the project overly complicated and deal with all of this old crap up front (which IS going to disappear!) is simply a time-waster in the extreme.
There are certainly projects that have to specified down to the last detail going in, but the trick is to know which is which.
We just went through this with a new project. One of the usual suspects started putting out huge emails with a hundred questions/requirements/concerns such that you'd need to solve desktop fusion before protyping the thing and the lead architect just basically slapped him and said no, I'm not even going to answer this - let's keep it informal, get it going first and see what we can do and what makes sense. Probably saved the company $100k that day.
Doesn't work for everything, but when it does, use it.
I know you can make a spreadsheet under Windows man, but let's face it, MS makes things easy for humans.
Trust me, I've worked with literally every Windows version ever, and for that matter every DOS version ever, and OS/2, CP/M, Solaris, Linux, etc. They all have their problems. When you say you've never had a problem using Linux it makes you sound like you really haven't tried to do that much. I'm sure that's not the case, but I think you're simplfying things a bit, no?
In the last 5 years I've processed 50M imaged documents and gawd knows how many ORM records using... wait for it.. Windows. Not my choice, really. But if you're a professional you make it happen.
What the original poster was saying, simply, was that people want easy to use stuff, and he's quite correct. The combination of free (as in beer OR speech) AND ease of use is what we need to get to.
So, how's that Excel spreadsheet going? Your PowerPoint presentation for tomorrow's meeting?
Hmmm, maybe your definition of "getting everything done" is not the same as others.
5 years and no problems? What's your definition of a problem?
So let me get this straight, you were like, a guy running an upholstery shop with no more interest in PCs than your credit card system. That what a "normal" user is. And you switched to Linux and experienced no difficulties whatsoever, yes?
And then you "don't know and don't want to know" about how to d/l a common update to Windows, but the people who feel that way about Linux are ignorant? It sounds like your family had the situation well in hand before you came in with your preconceptions of How Things Work.
As far as OSS goes I suggest you're part of the problem, not the solution.
Cracks me up he gets attacked for stating the obvious. The attitiude that you really owe it to someone/yourself/Linux to spend ten hours digging through bad doc to get something to work as opposed to using an easy-to-install user-friendly app is a real problem with acceptance of OSS, even if mostly undeserved in the actual practice. It's certainly the party line often enough.
I mean, here he's telling you what OSS apps he uses (frankly it's more than I do) and he still gets "flamebait" and is a "Windows user to rebut".
Yes, Windows XP still kicking Linux ass in any real terms in nearly any desktop situation you'd care to find. It may be running 3/4 of the cool new embedded h/w, servers and POS boxes up the wahoo, but not to the user.
Remember the users? We're all users sometime, and frankly, the older get I get the less of my precious time I want to spend dicking around with some program that demands a semester at sea to get working.
Make it work, make it easy, and people will use it whether it's free or not. That's all he's saying.
Make sure they can't place a phone call to *anyone* because the 911 mechanism is affected. So now even if they can give their address verbally they can't call.
It was ELP's Lucky Man, and when I heard that thing I said "Man, I've got to do that." When my Vox Continental keyboard kept breaking down I got started in electronics, and when the Fairlight came out I switched to software.
I got to meet him once at an Audio Engineering Society convention; just shook his hand and said "Thanks".
"Time, time, what is time? The Swiss manufacture it, Italians squander it, French hoard it, the Americans say it is money and the Hindus say it does not exist.
If you really want to make sure your program is recorded you sit there and press RECORD. Between changes in schedules, events that go overtime etc. it's not always reliable. If you want that, get a Tivo.
My watches don't know from DST in the first place. Apparently there are still some benefits of being old-school.
More importantly, Windows and OSX both get patched so frequently I can't imagine they won't be able to slip the fix in before then.
Yes I know they're criminals, but criminals can't buy guns legally. They have to come from somewhere. Yes there are a lot out there already in criminal hands, and so they'll pass from one to another, but all guns out there are not all previously-hidden and unregistered. A fresh supply of guns does get into the population on a regular basis from gun store owners who look the other way.
Is it going to stop criminal gun use? No, but it could cut it down. Where I live people get shot in the ass every day. It's getting old. Yes, they could kill with a kitchen knife but they can't do it from 10 feet away.
Yes, it's illegal because the NRA lobbying wouldn't allow ANY kind of gun control at all without it. And why an instant-check system? So the decent people who just want to get a new shotgun for the season won't get mucked up in red tape.
That doesn't make it smart. I think it might be interesting to law enforcement if some recent immigrants went out and bought a dozen high-power rifles with large magazines.
I've read the 2nd ammendment plenty, and I agree with the interpretation that it allows individuals (and not just the state "militia" to own guns. But I can't own a *car* without yearly registration and a paper trail.
Funny, but isn't that the NRA argument against gun control? Someone somewhere might miss the first day of duck season, so we can't keep records on any gun purchases for more than a few days?
...but let's face it, what has he done for them lately? There are a lot of people out there riding on their reputations (like um, me for instance), my guess is they realized they could save a half million a year and not really lose that much.
Because there are all these open-source guys who will do it for the recognition... (ducking for cover:-))
It had nothing to do with signal processing and everything to do with telling VCR's where to be and when to record. This was in the early 80's, there were no non-linear editors and signal processing was mostly done with hardware. DSPs were just coming in. What we did was serial communications and alot of multithreading using Concurrent Pascal on a PDP 11/23.
It was just timecode math. I can recognize the uses of advanced math, I just can't do it and I recognize my limitations. I can do logic and languages and analysis, I make good money writing code and I've been doing so for 25 years, so I think if the guy wants a career in computing he can do it without numerical analysis.
I absolutely envy the guys who are doing really groovy signal and imaging stuff (my buddy Rob sits in the next cube and does it for us) but we all have our own talents, and not being a mathmetician is not reason to stay away from programming.
For the most part, the math part of CS is completely useless unless you're doing something in a field which specifically requires it, i.e. fluid dynamics. I started out as a engineering tech and can do circuit analysis and whatnot, but when I went back for CS the math requirements kicked my ass. I left for a cool job in NYC doing video editing, which I knew a lot about and required only timecode math and hex. So it depends on where you want to work. For some things you really need that math, but you're doing a database? No.
So go back and take all the programming courses you can, and other intersting things, and then go get a job. Do not let it stop you if you're interested in programming.
He's NOT a computer professional, he's an Op-Ed columnist. That would be why his opinion is on the NYT Op-Ed page. He has a background in science writing among other things.
Here's the oh-so-hard-to-find bio for you savvy computer professionals:
Basically the OS has to apportion the threads nicely or it's so what. It's hard enough for most people to do proper multi-threading apps, never mind detecting and assigning processors.
I still use the original monitor from my Amiga 1000 for TV. SOB is still working, it's like 17 yrs old now. If I can ever find the freakin' HD cable I might get the A1000 back together. Only time I ever really enjoyed games on the computer.
No, vote for someone who believes in the Easter Bunny or Xenu if you want.
But it would be nice if you didn't have to be born-again and ostentatiously show up at various churches in order to consider running for a political post. You don't have to believe Jesus is literally God and coming back to live a moral life.
Consider the possibility that some of those non-believers might have a clue about managing things too.
Last I checked God wasn't paying my property taxes. For a public servant knowledge of proper accounting principles and fiscal conservatism is worth more than fake righteousness anytime.
Slashdot Mirror
It IS useful in a perfect world, but most people are too clueless to not just go ahead and accept everything anyway.
I personally never accept "always accept".
I do understand your point, but in this case the individual I mentioned (who IS in the IT dept.) does nothing but obstruct, and his method is bureauocracy (sp?) in the extreme. Trust me, nothing but termination will keep him from grandstanding in meetings and bringing up superfluous problems, so this is not a worry.
We're re-engineering a process, throwing stuff out and discovering what's do-able and what's not. The concerns and issues involved are real, but many are simply what I'd call "dragging the walrus", which means that we don't actually HAVE to support every single exception that's ever been done because we're also going to set new guidelines for how the input (in this case scannable documents) are going to be delivered. So there's a lot of cruft there that really does NOT need to be handled in the future. To make the project overly complicated and deal with all of this old crap up front (which IS going to disappear!) is simply a time-waster in the extreme.
There are certainly projects that have to specified down to the last detail going in, but the trick is to know which is which.
We just went through this with a new project. One of the usual suspects started putting out huge emails with a hundred questions/requirements/concerns such that you'd need to solve desktop fusion before protyping the thing and the lead architect just basically slapped him and said no, I'm not even going to answer this - let's keep it informal, get it going first and see what we can do and what makes sense. Probably saved the company $100k that day.
Doesn't work for everything, but when it does, use it.
I know you can make a spreadsheet under Windows man, but let's face it, MS makes things easy for humans.
Trust me, I've worked with literally every Windows version ever, and for that matter every DOS version ever, and OS/2, CP/M, Solaris, Linux, etc. They all have their problems. When you say you've never had a problem using Linux it makes you sound like you really haven't tried to do that much. I'm sure that's not the case, but I think you're simplfying things a bit, no?
In the last 5 years I've processed 50M imaged documents and gawd knows how many ORM records using... wait for it.. Windows. Not my choice, really. But if you're a professional you make it happen.
What the original poster was saying, simply, was that people want easy to use stuff, and he's quite correct. The combination of free (as in beer OR speech) AND ease of use is what we need to get to.
Cheers...
BL
So, how's that Excel spreadsheet going? Your PowerPoint presentation for tomorrow's meeting?
Hmmm, maybe your definition of "getting everything done" is not the same as others.
5 years and no problems? What's your definition of a problem?
So let me get this straight, you were like, a guy running an upholstery shop with no more interest in PCs than your credit card system. That what a "normal" user is. And you switched to Linux and experienced no difficulties whatsoever, yes?
And then you "don't know and don't want to know" about how to d/l a common update to Windows, but the people who feel that way about Linux are ignorant? It sounds like your family had the situation well in hand before you came in with your preconceptions of How Things Work.
As far as OSS goes I suggest you're part of the problem, not the solution.
Cracks me up he gets attacked for stating the obvious. The attitiude that you really owe it to someone/yourself/Linux to spend ten hours digging through bad doc to get something to work as opposed to using an easy-to-install user-friendly app is a real problem with acceptance of OSS, even if mostly undeserved in the actual practice. It's certainly the party line often enough.
I mean, here he's telling you what OSS apps he uses (frankly it's more than I do) and he still gets "flamebait" and is a "Windows user to rebut".
Yes, Windows XP still kicking Linux ass in any real terms in nearly any desktop situation you'd care to find. It may be running 3/4 of the cool new embedded h/w, servers and POS boxes up the wahoo, but not to the user.
Remember the users? We're all users sometime, and frankly, the older get I get the less of my precious time I want to spend dicking around with some program that demands a semester at sea to get working.
Make it work, make it easy, and people will use it whether it's free or not. That's all he's saying.
Make sure they can't place a phone call to *anyone* because the 911 mechanism is affected. So now even if they can give their address verbally they can't call.
Brilliant, but there's the FCC at work.
It was ELP's Lucky Man, and when I heard that thing I said "Man, I've got to do that." When my Vox Continental keyboard kept breaking down I got started in electronics, and when the Fairlight came out I switched to software.
I got to meet him once at an Audio Engineering Society convention; just shook his hand and said "Thanks".
He was the real thing.
"Time, time, what is time? The Swiss manufacture it, Italians squander it, French hoard it, the Americans say it is money and the Hindus say it does not exist.
I think time is a crook".
From "Beat The Devil", 1953:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0046414/
if they're smart they do what works for them given their employees, time requirements and other resources, regardless of the prevailing fashion.
If you really want to make sure your program is recorded you sit there and press RECORD. Between changes in schedules, events that go overtime etc. it's not always reliable. If you want that, get a Tivo.
My watches don't know from DST in the first place. Apparently there are still some benefits of being old-school.
More importantly, Windows and OSX both get patched so frequently I can't imagine they won't be able to slip the fix in before then.
Yes I know they're criminals, but criminals can't buy guns legally. They have to come from somewhere. Yes there are a lot out there already in criminal hands, and so they'll pass from one to another, but all guns out there are not all previously-hidden and unregistered. A fresh supply of guns does get into the population on a regular basis from gun store owners who look the other way.
Is it going to stop criminal gun use? No, but it could cut it down. Where I live people get shot in the ass every day. It's getting old. Yes, they could kill with a kitchen knife but they can't do it from 10 feet away.
Yes, it's illegal because the NRA lobbying wouldn't allow ANY kind of gun control at all without it. And why an instant-check system? So the decent people who just want to get a new shotgun for the season won't get mucked up in red tape.
That doesn't make it smart. I think it might be interesting to law enforcement if some recent immigrants went out and bought a dozen high-power rifles with large magazines.
I've read the 2nd ammendment plenty, and I agree with the interpretation that it allows individuals (and not just the state "militia" to own guns. But I can't own a *car* without yearly registration and a paper trail.
Funny, but isn't that the NRA argument against gun control? Someone somewhere might miss the first day of duck season, so we can't keep records on any gun purchases for more than a few days?
...but let's face it, what has he done for them lately? There are a lot of people out there riding on their reputations (like um, me for instance), my guess is they realized they could save a half million a year and not really lose that much.
:-))
Because there are all these open-source guys who will do it for the recognition... (ducking for cover
It had nothing to do with signal processing and everything to do with telling VCR's where to be and when to record. This was in the early 80's, there were no non-linear editors and signal processing was mostly done with hardware. DSPs were just coming in. What we did was serial communications and alot of multithreading using Concurrent Pascal on a PDP 11/23.
It was just timecode math. I can recognize the uses of advanced math, I just can't do it and I recognize my limitations. I can do logic and languages and analysis, I make good money writing code and I've been doing so for 25 years, so I think if the guy wants a career in computing he can do it without numerical analysis.
I absolutely envy the guys who are doing really groovy signal and imaging stuff (my buddy Rob sits in the next cube and does it for us) but we all have our own talents, and not being a mathmetician is not reason to stay away from programming.
Cheers...
For the most part, the math part of CS is completely useless unless you're doing something in a field which specifically requires it, i.e. fluid dynamics. I started out as a engineering tech and can do circuit analysis and whatnot, but when I went back for CS the math requirements kicked my ass. I left for a cool job in NYC doing video editing, which I knew a lot about and required only timecode math and hex. So it depends on where you want to work. For some things you really need that math, but you're doing a database? No.
So go back and take all the programming courses you can, and other intersting things, and then go get a job. Do not let it stop you if you're interested in programming.
Totally off-topic, but I feel your pain. Well, I didn't feel it in my pocket but what a fiasco, I certainly felt pain watching what was left.
They're refunding the ticket price at least, right?
It's called Galileo and it will co-exist with the US system - if they ever get the funds together, that is.
l ileo/index_en.htm
http://europa.eu.int/comm/dgs/energy_transport/ga
So you READ his bio and are still judging him as a computer professional? That's even more stupid.
He's NOT a computer professional, he's an Op-Ed columnist. That would be why his opinion is on the NYT Op-Ed page. He has a background in science writing among other things.
m l
Here's the oh-so-hard-to-find bio for you savvy computer professionals:
http://www.nytimes.com/ref/opinion/tierney-bio.ht
Personally I think cutting off one hand would help quite a bit. It'd slow 'em down at least the next time.
nothing to see here folks, move along....
Basically the OS has to apportion the threads nicely or it's so what. It's hard enough for most people to do proper multi-threading apps, never mind detecting and assigning processors.
If it does... big win.
I do remember those flame wars. Yikes.
I still use the original monitor from my Amiga 1000 for TV. SOB is still working, it's like 17 yrs old now. If I can ever find the freakin' HD cable I might get the A1000 back together. Only time I ever really enjoyed games on the computer.
No, vote for someone who believes in the Easter Bunny or Xenu if you want.
But it would be nice if you didn't have to be born-again and ostentatiously show up at various churches in order to consider running for a political post. You don't have to believe Jesus is literally God and coming back to live a moral life.
Consider the possibility that some of those non-believers might have a clue about managing things too.
Last I checked God wasn't paying my property taxes. For a public servant knowledge of proper accounting principles and fiscal conservatism is worth more than fake righteousness anytime.