Slashdot Mirror
Guitarists, your Days are Numbered
spackbace writes "Researchers at the Georgia Institute of Technology have created a mechanical guitar playing robot, named the Crazy J. The guitar player is composed of two mechanical systems that interact to play a range of 29 musical notes. A plucking mechanism with six independently controlled picks is mounted over the body of the guitar and a fingering mechanism with an array of 23 fingertips is mounted over the first four frets of the fingerboard."
The art form will never die... how long have MIDI keyboards been around?
While not modern enough for a full-on web site, you can see a museum of such in Germany
The pneumatic piano with the drum holding four violins, in particular, was interesting, if only from a mechanical engineering perspective.
At any rate, when your gadget can move Mt. Fuji, you shall have accomplished something.
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
How about guitarists implanted with CrazyJ technology, and once again play like there is no tomorrow?
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
I, for one, welcome our new guitar playing overlords.
Oh wait.. wasn't that Jimmy Hendrix?
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
http://www.capturedbyrobots.com/
29 notes.. Don't retire just yet.
Nicknamed the Crazy J
Yeah, but will it fit in the bong?
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
Unless it can give mouth to mouth resuscitation to a bottle of tequila, smell bad, and grow long hair, country music is still safe. Go Willie Nelson!
Every mans' island needs an ocean; choose your ocean carefully.
Yes,but how 'about teaching him something useful... Like Counter Strike!
This kind of bothers me, while it excites me. I play guitar, well, I try to. With something like this, I could at least program the music into it and even write some of my own stuff. I may not be able to play it myself, but my Tech skills will be able to help my nonmusic skills!
Yay, I have a sig.
a fingering mechanism with an array of 23 fingertips is mounted
there's just no way I can compete with that!
quick! post a dupe or something so she doesn't see it! =)
My wife has a battery powered "massager" but she still prefers me...
I was imaging a robotic Stevie Ray Vaughn, with a wide-brimmed hat and a goatee...
By that? The thing can't even do divebombs, pitchbends, or slides. All it can do is chords, not to mention it sounds a lot more like a piano when a machine is plucking it.
can it play Classical Gas?
How player pianos killed piano players.
RTFA again for the best results.
The music is only part of the fun. Watching the musician entertain is the rest. Interaction between the crowd and the musician is what is good about live music. I mean if I wanted to watch a robot play music, I'd turn on Winamp with a plugin and go crazy with that.
An interesting project, but as far as the music goes it still cant shred thru a wicked solo, perform bends and slides, crunching palm mutes or a wide range of other techniques that make the guitar so versitle.
...a fingering mechanism with an array of 23 fingertips...
Men are officially obsolete.
I suppose they ordered 23 cups of Wendy's Chili?
There is truth in humor.
My Banjo-playing cousin-slash-brother Cleetus only has 12!
Have you ever listened to synthesized music and cringed a little because it was too perfect? I always have that feeling with synthesized trumpets, french horns, etc. I like the variation that "imperfect" humans add to the music. If the robot is always perfectly in time and can't improvise, it won't be replacing good guitarists anytime soon.
James Tiberius Kirk: "Spock, the women on your planet are logical. No other planet in the galaxy can make that claim."
...Fer fucks sake, just don't teach it goddamn "Stairway to Heaven"... anyone who's spent 10 minutes in a any guitar store on a busy street knows what I'm talking about.
Height: 38U, Weight: 0 Newtons, Eyes: #0000FF, OS: Gray Matter 1.0 (Alpha)
Wouldn't it be more useful to create robots that perform automation on things that humans don't actually like doing. Why are they even creating this when there are tons of jobs, like trimming the overgrowth in my backyard for example, that I would love a robot / computer to do for me, so i could spend time practicing the guitar on my own.
And In other news, still no cure for cancer.
...::----::...
I am in no way affiliated with this sig.
THE SPIRIT OF RADIO
"All this machinery
Making modern music
Can still be open-hearted
Not so coldly charted
It's really just a question
Of your honesty"
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/r/rush/120011.html
"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore."
...but that hasn't meant the end of human pianists
Or Stairway?
Wow, it sounds so life-like. Not like a robot playing a guitar. Sorry, but it's pretty hard to program emotion into a robot.
Or at least until we learn how to do that.
so it can handle all the groupie sluts.
Is it anti musicians day on Slashdot?
First all they do is rehash the old crap and now we're replacing them with robots? Next they'll find a cheaper way to replace admins and you'll all be out of a job!
I like muppets.
Just another technological elitist thing. You can't do everything with computers, just so you know.
nothing to see here folks, move along....
The revolution will NOT be televised.
Georgia Tech takes Crazy J to Athens (Georgia, not Greece) and watches it get wizzed on by Uga VI. Now that would be a darn good dawg.
. . . as poorly as I do.
Never underestimate the human ear and its ability to pick (pun intended) the poser. I've heard of the obsolescence by technology of so many things musical that never really got there.
One I fondly remember was a report on the CBS Evening News, granted, it was a long time ago, but the point is valid today... They played a video clip of an orchestra playing Beethoven's Ninth Symphony and asked, "What's wrong with this picture?". I remember thinking, aside from the really crappy quality of sound, hard to say. Their punchline? The music was from a synthesizer, NOT the orchestra (yawn).
This experience (for me at least) is not unique. I had to toss my "white noise" generator I used to help sleep at night... over a period of time my ears picked up the "random" pattern and it actually became an irritant, not a mask of other ambient noise.
I also own a Yamaha high-end keyboard (full 88 key, acceleration keys, 128 voice polyphonic), and it's main piano "voice" was digitally sampled from a Steinway. It sounds wonderful, but I could pick the Yamaha out of a bunch of real pianos from a mile away. The pitch was always too perfect, the decay was always to predictable, etc.
Have you ever listened to a musical recording and found the laid down "generated rhythm" track so perfect it was annoying? I have.
Technology can do some interesting things in music, none of them human. If technology is used create an instrument played by a human, that's one thing... Technology to play an instrument is quite another, and in my opinion will never approach the real thing. If you've listened a lot to classical, it's pretty easy to pick out Stern, or Perlman as the violinist on the same piece. Likewise it's pretty easy to recognize Vladimir on piano.
Wow, with 29 notes I bet it can play a few more chords than the 3 or 4 chords most of the bands out there only know.
This guy is way ahead of them. He's had a guitar-playing robot in his band for years.
Not quite as versatile, but making up for that with geek factor is:
Ukulele Mindstorms Robot
It only plays reggae since reggae usually uses only a few, simple chords, but it is still way cool. They even made it remote controllable. And of course, all the source is on their site.
The technology isn't there to match the dynamics in picking techniques and subtle stylistic interpretations.
For instance, some swing-beat pieces (in jazz band music, not just guitar music) require a little more sluggishness in the eights, to really capture the groove.
As well, there aren't effective improv algorithms yet for these mechanical beasts :)
Oh sure, its possible to program future machines to match interpretations to exact specifications, but the nuances required to program that are unfathomable when it comes to instruments such as guitars - There are so many dynamic elements to it that it just isn't feasible. Besides, people like watching guitarists as much as they like listening to them.. Thats part of why people prefer live shows to CDs - Nothing is like watching the emotive expressions of a guitar duo while they shred in harmony, knees on the ground, eyes at the sky.
Guitar: A month or so to learn, a lifetime to master.
"Better to be vulgar than non-existent" -Bev Henson
This may be even more of a threat to my career than the animatronic musicians at Chuck E. Cheese.
mod parent up ... any reference to captured by robots deserves all of +1 insightful, +1 funny, and +1 informative ...
...
had the pleasure of seeing him and his robotic couterparts here in east tennessee many times, and is always a pleasure. and with 36 comments on this thread, i thought *I* was the origional one with the thought to come in an provide the link. it's well worth the $3 admission to the dives they play
you can't have everything, where would you put it?
is 'octave'.
This news is almost two decades old, and this is supposed to be a technology forum. *embaressed to be here*
That since it's a robot, it can only play POWER CHORDS!!!
HAR DEE HAR HAR!!!
Part of the guitar "experience" is the subtleties of human fingering like noises of sliding up and down the strings etc.
Conlon Nancarrow created rather crazy player piano compositions which sounded like several fighting performers at once. Have a listen - Study No. 3a for Player Piano http://www.wfmu.org/listen.ram?show=2690&starttime =00:27:39
The sound clips for the CrazyJ weren't too bad, but I don't think it's up to doing Eddie Van Halen's "Eruption" or Leo Kottke or Manitas de Plata.... Oh well...
Any guitarist worth their salt prefers a good ole tube amp over solid state. You really think they're going to let robot come to the party?
.. no bends, hammers, pull-off, vibrate?
and no "feeling"
if you play the same music with your midi player, it'll sound exactly the same
it's a nice robot, but maybe a waste of time?
ajf
They'll have to attach some kind of face to the device to finish it off, otherwise there's no way of giving good face to that Hendrix riff.
Task Mangler
There's a certain feel to every guitarist worth their salt. Every player has a certain way that they "attack" the instrument, and the way a person presses on the strings, bends notes, cranks on the neck, picks the notes, hammers and pulls off of strings, slides up and down the neck, etc.- all of these affect the feel of the playing. I don't think a robot would EVER be able to synthesize such feel. Take Stevie Ray Vaughn, for instance. I was fortunate to see him play when he was still alive. See him play three notes of a solo, look up, and then let out a yowl of attack before plunging into the rest of the solo, sent chills down my spine. I don't think Threepeo with a strat could EVER have that effect.
Perhaps the "typical" pop music listener, into such parts of the song as the vocals and the beat, might not care about such things (and believe me, I'm not trying to pass any judgement on musical tastes here), and it might be in this area that a geetar-pickin' robot might work well. But to someone who can listen to a song and grasp the feel of each part of it, there is no substitute for the real thing.
Disclaimer: if I sound like some kind of elitist musical snob, it is not my intention at all. Sorry.
"You're getting brutal, Sark. Brutal and needlessly sadistic."
"Thank you, Master Control"
-Sark and the MCP
does it run Linux?
That was really funny.
Raise your children as if you were teaching them to raise your grandchildren, because you are.
The horn section JBOT recently introduced almost destroyed my ears. Poor JBOT - I, for one, would not like to have to sing before crappy drunk crowds with my own intestines in hand!
- he who will never gain any positive mod points.
This reminds me of the "programmer's days are numbered" stories - turns out they just got outsourced to India...
I like the variation that "imperfect" humans add to the music.
:)
I wish *you* had been my band teacher in 7th grade.
creation science book
All the notes are played with the same emphasis.
Layla and First Noel by Crazy J especially since I've heard them played live by musiciain friends who actually make them sound good.
PLAYER PIANOS AND CRAZY J PLAY JUST LIKE ME WRITING MY POST IN ALL CAPS. DULL AND MONOTONOUS.
the "don't have a clue, but still tried to correct someone" award for today. Go to your nearest piano keyboard and count the white and black keys in your precious 'octave.'
But aside from the coolness value of the project, what's the purpose of a guitar played by a machine? A boring flat robotic "musician" has no role to play in live concert-type music, orchestras are union-controlled a lot of the time, and as someone mentioned above we already have midi keyboards. As far as I can see, the only arena that this particular gadget will be useful in will be creating clean "previews", or samples like the one on the website, until a real guitarist can be found to add some soul.
Thats 26 more than our greatest punk bands ... the human race is doomed!
I wonder how long till the RIAA (or equivalent) sends that site a 'cease and desist' letter?
=======
Science -- Sealed, Delivered.
http://www.animusic.com/
(it's actually quite impressive)
- Preferences: Solaris 10 (servers), Ubuntu (desktops), Solaris 11 (personal servers) -
The first player piano was made in 1895: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_piano
. htm which had 369 pipes, a bass drum, a snare drum, two bells, tympani, double castanets, cymbals, a triangle, and a set of 18 bells. The very ingenious snare drum action stems back to the great Leonardo Da Vinci who designed this type of arrangement. The triangle perforations now activate the two comely bell-ringers. The Director, Big Bertha, is in time with the bass drum. The piccolos now play intermittently with the trumpets. When the piccolos are playing, the bell-ringers play in unison with the bass drum.
Big Bertha never replaced entire bands http://www.bandorganmusic.com/machines/mbigbertha
And this was without computers... just a role of paper with holes in it and pullys, springs and levers...
Perhaps this could be the cure for coldplay!
I think this other robot was a previous /. article
Georgia Tech ME is obsessed with HC11 evaluation boards.
What is their #1 reason to come to Grad school?
The potential to use the same old equipment as used in undergrad intoductory lab sections, of course!
If, among other benefits such as substantial paychecks, private industries have better microcontrollers with non-BASIC11 interfaces then the BSME->Industry->MBA track seems much better than BSME->MSME.
I'll be your candy shop of infinite deliciousity if you'll be my discotheque of endless rump-shaking.
Whoa.... just checking some of the sample audio now. Don't forget +72 heavy.
This rating is Unfair ( ) ( ) Fair (*) Funny
Sigh... If only. Modding would be so much more fun.
While this is an interesting project the use of an array of solenoids really doesn't make much sense other than as an inexpensive hack for fingering. While a lot could be accomplished using the plucking mechanism, technique-wise the solenoid array is pretty useless. Understandably its a school project but the solenoid array does not seem like much of a challenge compared to developing an actuator to mimic vibrato, bends or even a sliding motion.
I like how the big name universities often duplicate (if unknowingly) existing work, with little or no additional innovation, but are heaped under large piles of praise. No I don't go to Concordia.
Freebird!
From what I read it didn't mention that it could bend the strings to certain notes. I think that would be very hard to do because you bend the notes at different strengths to reach certain pitches.
Also I would like to see that thing do some Van Halen string tapping. I'll be impressed to see it play "Eruption".
There is a machine fairly similar to this inside the "music box" at the Santa Cruz beach boardwalk, but it 'plays' the bass guitar. yawn.
To hell with Georgia!
I'll be your candy shop of infinite deliciousity if you'll be my discotheque of endless rump-shaking.
Yeah right. Like anyone could ever write a script capable of solving that enormous challenge.
Guitar playing robot? BFD.
A cigarette on the lip robotic Eddie Van Halen and a bottle of Jack Daniels?
an array of 23 fingertips
I dunno about playing music, but if this robot used /., it would complain about 18 missing poll options.
Another guitar playing robot in the GuitarBot. The guitar bot doesn't play an actual guitar, rather there is a seperate robot/string assembly for each string. But it is a neat little gadget, and I believe it's been on slashdot before. Another advantage of the Guitarbot is that is comes with a video clip of it performing.
Stupid like a fox!
I've played guitar as a hobby since 8th grade.. and i'm something of a metal/shred fan.
... i think a few less notes might do a better job now and then)
This thing addresses the wrong end of the problem.
I can _play_ reasonably proficiently. I mean, anything most people would listen to i can play without much trouble - technical profiency at guitar _playing_ is not really making anybody money right now. I mean, to a lot of people, metallica is like the end-all-be-all of fast guitar licks and "wild" guitar solos and yet i could play the overwhelming majority of that stuff after a few years of playing while i was in highschoool. There are much much better guitarists out there, who's work i cannot emulate, but honestly, there are very few guys out there where some other guy can't play his stuff perfectly.
The issue then, is not about the ability to "play", but the ability to create.
I can play just about any metallica song.. solos and all.
But i definitely can't write anything like they could. It shames me to admit that i can't even put together an original song as good as a crap band like weezer or radiohead or any of the other stuff that's passed as music in the last 15 years.
Composition is the real gem here, not technical playing ability. If you want to hear a trillion notes per second, check out the artists on the Shrapnel Records label.. nothing but guitar/keyboard maniacs (which i happen to love, but i admit it gets tiring at times
One other thing to consider - i haven't seen/heard the thing play, but something you'll hear from older guitarists is that "95% of your tone is in your finger tips, not your equipment". How effective is the robot at things like bends ? If you listen to a player like marty friedman, he really makes effective emotional use of bends that just _sound_ better than what i can do. How does a robot compare ?
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
Just like the electric guitar destroyed the acoustic guitar, right?
Music is expression by one person, to another (or many others). It's a way of sync'ing minds, using fundamental sympathies that transcend other languages. We aren't even aware of most of what we communicate through music, let alone understand it, or are able to articulate. So there's no chance that this machine will replace a musician. It's really just another instrument, played (or composed for) by a human. Like a player piano, or a jukebox. Listen to some dirt-poor West African guitarists, with 40-cent shoebox guitars some time, and realize that it's the humanity that appeals to us, not the instrument. Then listen to American radio for a minute, and know for certain.
--
make install -not war
every headline should be taken at face value. There is no such thing as sarcasm. And your butt stinks (based on statistical probability).
I saw something similar at Expo88 in Brisbane Australia. It was playing a clasical guitar perfectly. I cant remember which exhibit it was at but it was very impressive.
From my limited experience as a keyboardist and watching guitarists do their stuff, it's easier to replace a pianist with a computer than it is to replace a guitarist.
With most pianists the hammers are the only things that touch the strings directly. And the hammers are controlled by the keys.
Whereas guitarists get to manipulate the sound producing parts of their instrument more directly AND it is normal/expected of them.
Basically there's lots of stuff guitarists do with their guitars that goes beyond just statically holding a string down and plucking it. There's sliding down the frets, there's tapping, slapping, strumming, plucking of the strings, there's also stretching the strings. There's so much they do and can do AND it's _normal_ for a decent guitarist to do it.
So if it wasn't a live performance I wouldn't bother with getting the best pianists (in terms of technique). Computers can make up for bad technique for pianists. Just bang it into MIDI and fix it later. What you need is someone to come up with the music.
However, for guitars, drums, violinists, lead vocals, it's better to get the real thing.
Eventually you might have technology and musicians who can recreate and manipulate artificial/simulated vocals - down to the last breathy hiss.
But you still will need people who know music and sound. And there are lots of people who know a significant part of their music and sound through their subconscious reflexes out of years of practice with their chosen instrument whether it be their voice or a guitar. So they may still need to use an instrument to create music rather than clinically entering data into a computer.
In fact, to me such devices are just toys.
What would be interesting would be something that sampled a sound source (e.g. your vocals) and continuously did a "diff" (in frequency+phase domain e.g. FFT+phase) between T and T-1 seconds and applied that "diff" to another sound source and thus alter the sound.
I'm NOT talking about vocoders. This is subtly but significantly different.
With a device that does what I'm talking about, if you sing "Aaaa" at a particular pitch and then raise that pitch whilst maintaining the "aaa", and use that to manipulate a violin sound, the violin will still sound like a violin and just rise in pitch. However if you sing "aaaa" at a particular pitch and change it to "ooo" whilst maintaining a pitch, the violin sound will become more "ooo" in nature and remain at the same pitch.
Whereas a vocoder would make it sound like you are saying Aaa and Ooo with the violin as your vocal chords.
I think it will be some time until Crazy J is able of outplaying the likes of Jimmy Damage, the current Australian air guitar champion...
I heard that your library burnt down and destroyed your only two books - and one was not even coloured in yet.
The robot chases around the room - and tries to choke - anyone who requests 'Stairway to Heaven'.
Everyone will start to cheer when you put on your sailin' shoes.
I took this picture at the AOPA Expo in Long Beach last year:
1 =L&size=S
http://overcode.yak.net/7.sizes@100_0649.jpg?size
An automatic banjo and guitar. They sounded very good, but obviously somewhat mechanical. The mechanism seems to be very similar to what the Georgia Tech people came up with.
I don't know why someone brought this to an aircraft show, but it was fun to watch.
-John
Oh, you said... nevermind.
For real though, as an audio professional. They really need to learn how to attach this thing to a guitar without killing its tone, or learn how to mic a guitar with reasonable success.
Also, they now have years ahead of them working on listening and anlyzing waveforms and high speed film captures of real guitarists trying to model the subtle nuances that make a good performance. I'm not saying it can't be done, there are ways to get simply amazing piano sounds out of a computer these days. Think GigaSampler and random timing generators.
I guess its called GigaStudio now
Really though this will have real potential once they make a guitar that could be played and it's players movements translated into data used to play back another guitar. Then a sound engineer could spend all day preparing mics and trying different guitar amps with the machine playing the guitar instead of a person. This is already a somewhat common practice with Yamaha Disklavier pianos.
Yamaha Disklavier page
-Mikey P
I hope not *everything* goes electronic. What a boring world it would end up being -- especially in the music dept.
It can't bend strings, it can't play blues, it's not worth a shit.
Next!
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."
-- Pablo Picasso
HAL!
eat shiat and bark at the moon
FREEBIRD!!! PLAY FREEBIRD!!!
I did listen to some of the audio samples and, although they sound very good, it definately lacks some ofthe feel and expressivness of playing a guitar. One definately does get the impresssion that the strings are being plucked, i.e there is no "strum" mechanism, and when playing a song like Lola, really changes the feel. Of course, I would have much rather heard the instrument play the lead riff to "Layla" rather than just the background chords, but oh well..
I wanted to buy a candle holder, but the store didn't have one. So I got a cake.
You're not funny. STFU.
I also like how you can't spell "whizzed" correctly.
Guitarbot is an earlier robotic guitar, which I read about several years ago. Pretty nifty video...it's basically focused on being able to do everything a regular guitar could, as well as extending possibilities far beyond human capability.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
Mmmm, i saw something like this at the World Expo in Brisbane (Aus) 1988, one of the displays in the Japanese Pavilion. It was computer controlled, but used pneumatics for 'fingers'.
You never catch me alive
it's called a clavinet
I know the original robot guitarist... Steve Morse.
True story: While working for The Dixie Dregs and the Steve Morse Band sometime 1991-92, I did a gig at The Ranch Bowl in Omaha, Nebraska.
This venue had, as well as an "old-man bar", a rock radio station, a small rock club, and a beach volleyball court, a bowling alley on the premises.
After the gig was over we (band & crew) were invited to bowl a few games on the house. Sometime around 1:30 AM, Steve Morse (accomplished commercial pilot, virtuoso musician, genius composer, and guitar god) picked up a bowling bowl, announced that he had not bowled previously, and then attempted his first bowl.
I think he knocked over a couple of pins. As he stood there motionless, I could just see him running back the instant replay in his head.
His next turn... he threw a strike.
His next turn... another strike. All night long, strike, strike, strike.
Steve Morse is the original guitar-playing robot.
And he can kick your ass at anything. Period.
'Swelp me gawd.
I'm all for their work, but I think "Captured by Robots" is a fair bit beyond this. I had a chance to see "them" at the University of Houston a couple of years ago, it was a great experience (and quite funny as well).
http://www.capturedbyrobots.com/
For real, too. This is actually part of a hardcore band made entirely of robots (plus one guy).
that they had created the predecessor to what would ultimately become "The Hands of the Robot Devil"
Its sounds very mechanical. Not very impressive really.
My karma is getting better everyday.
I watched a classical guitar playing robot about 20 years ago! Where have you been?
Now we need a mechanical drummer.
Oh, and machines that do drugs and then we will have mechanical rock bands.
There was one that was on display in the Japanese Pavilion at Expo '88 in Brisbane
It's not capable of even doing a slide on the fret; it can only do a fixed number of notes because for some strange reason, the fretboard "fingers" are fixed.
Please help metamoderate.
Player Pianos made Pianists obsolite?
Besides, guitar playing robots were cool back in 95 when they had one that could play on the whole fretboard and even had an arrangement or two written spesifically for it. This one sucks hairy dog balls by comparison.
...I got nothing.
I just looked at it, and I garuntee that it can not do pinch harmonics, or various basic picking techniques such as down/up picking.
Oh wait, you said Georgia Tech right? That little trade school over on North Avenue? They wouldn't care about that kind of robot.
This one gang kept wanting me to join cause I'm pretty good with a bo staff.
For several years now there has been a robot exaclty like this at the Experience Music Project in Seattle.
http://emplive.org/
But will it burn its guitar on stage?
Warning: Could be fatal if taken seriously
Disaster Area, here we come!
I don't think that real guitarists have anything to fret about...it's like Roger Waters says in the film "Live in Pompei" "Give a man a Les Paul, and he doesn't become an Eric Clapton".
It won't be able to compose a Layla, or anything of that caliber...it may be able to *play* Layla, but not create it.
ttyl
Farrell
guitarist, among other things...
CAN-CON 2019 - Ottawa's only book oriented Science Fiction Convention! October 18-20, Sheraton Hotel, Ottawa, Canada h
So, guitarists' days are NOT numbered, no more than pianists' by the mechanical piano.
AC comments get piped to
http://www.capturedbyrobots.com/gtrbot.htm
GTRBOT666 has been doing this for years.
"Let him go, Ralph. He knows what he's doing." --Otto Mann (simpsons)
"your days are numbered??" Whoever wrote this headline hasn't listened to music in his life. Perhaps he has heard music, but never really listened. You cannot compare a human guitar player to a robot/machine guitar player. Music is about expressing emotions, feelings, thoughts, etc. A machine has not, up to this day, been able to do such thing. You don't have to build a "robot" to see an example. Just download a midi file and listen to it. It will sound, like someone said, too perfect and with no "feeling" whatsoever. I really doubt the day will come when us musicians are replaced by machines. Or at least I hope it doesn't come.
A monorail and a guitar playing robot just like the one discribed.
At least that robot could play the full range.
but still wasn't as impressive as the idea sounded, after all the guitar was so lost inside the machine as to be hard to what it was.
"Call us when the New age is old enough to drink" Beck
What? There isn't one? WTF, how is it going to torch the guitar after a blistering Hendrix performance?
Tubal-Cain smokes the white owl.
But can it play it with its teeth? I don't think so.
would like to be the first to welcome our mechanical guitar playing overloards...
_ _________
Arash
________________________________________
Be one who knows what they don't know,
Instead of being one who knows not what they don't know,
Thinking they know everything about all things.
http://www.partow.net/
Arash Partow's Philosophy: Be a person who knows what they don't know, and not a person who doesn't know.
What can this strange device be?
When I touch it, it brings forth a sound
It's got wires that vibrate, and give music.
What can this thing be that I've found?
Don't Tread on Me
but can it do a mean guitar face? http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/music/sto ry/253119p-216716c.html
Oh wait.. wasn't that Jimmy Hendrix?
The Experience Music Project museum in Seattle has had a robotic guitar playing sculpture since it opened several years ago.
Building a guitar-playing robot is like building a girlfriend.........hey wait
Table-ized A.I.
Well, first off, it is neat technically.
Not a few idea by any stretch, but fun.
However, based on the recordings, it isn't
worth much to spend months building it if you're
not going to tune the guitar.
Similarly, the beauty of the guitar is in the expressiveness. You can play the same note at the same dynamic level in a practically infinite number of ways. You can slide, you can bend. It's popularity as a solo instrument comes largely from its flexibility and expressiveness. When a robot can do that, I will be absurdly impressed.
Until then, neat gadget you have there.
we already outsourced our playing to India.
Table-ized A.I.
DENIED!!!! (obligatory Waynes World reference;) )
Requiem
But can it play the hardest chord ever?
There is a band called Captured by Robots, which is made of one human man, and I think eight robots -- who not only play guitar AND bass in one robot (GTRBOT666), but the drums (DRMBOT 0110), horns (the headless hornsmen), and back-up percussion (AUTOMATOM).
The robots play pre-sequenced music, as the man runs around singing and generally being crazy. He also rigged a voice-modifying microphone set-up into his outfit which lets him speak as the various robots, which are all completely automated to move, and even lip-synch.
I had the pleasure to watch this "band" live during their "The Ten Commandments" tour.
They are not as pretty as this guitar playing bot, but I think they are 123% more rad/awes-gnar-some!
Check them out here: http://www.capturedbyrobots.com/
Actually the question today should be "what the robots couldn't do rather than what they could do"
Chris ,
Php Programmers.
man that chick could sing.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
This thing can't come anywhere close to the type of playing a human is capable of.
First comes frets; It's only going to play chords in those first 4 frets, which eliminates almost every barred chord.
In it's current design it can't play harmonic notes, bend or tremelo (which could be handled through an appropriate bridge, but they're using an acoutsic).
Hammer-ons may be possible but pull-offs or pinch harmonics don't appear possible with this design.
Beyond that, the places where strings can be picked are static. This alone can change the sound of a song greatly and can be infinitely varible with a human player.
In all honesty, they'd be better off trying to come up with an actual robotic set of hands and programming all the necessary logic/movements if they want a serious contender to human guitar players.
Even people that believe in pre-destiny look both ways before crossing the street.
I saw two of those at a Wyld Stallyns concert like 12 years ago...
That's the cheapest looking guitar playing machine I've ever seen.
If a car assembly line can get one-armed machines that can put 40 different rivets in 40 different locations at 40 different angles in less than 40 seconds, why can't you get a miniature version that can hold a single pick and hit six different strings with varying speed and angle?
They're using six picks and 23 rubber fingers! That's absolutely shoddy. Wake me when they're using one pick and four rubber fingers. It's not like the technology isn't there.
Replacing guitar players my ass!
Direct away from face when opening.
It's neat, the actuators are a decent design, but it won't replace even a basic guitarist. It can only hold a note down and pick said note. It can't slide, tap, pick harmonics, bend notes, fret hand mute, palm mute or any of a number of other techniques that I can think of.
/. editors should know better than to declare musicians will lose to a machine.
However, I can understand why they didn't go for those extra features; they would be a bitch to design. So, kudos to them for the whole design, it looks cool, but
For that matter, people still play chess even.
Jeff
PS Sorry for the rant, it's late, I'm tired, and I'm a guitarist. Struck a nerve...
...Tech's official rival. Therefore I feel compelled to say something about that, but my heart's not really in it. So blah blah blah, I can play guitar better than a robot for a bunch of other reasons blah blah blah football blah UGA rules or whatever.
Esoteric reference.
Yeah, but can it DRINK BEER while playing guitar?
S-
Maybe someone will figure a symbolic casing for this machine.
If this were around a few years ago, Gene Simmons and Judas Priest and Def Leopard/Leper, and others might be smashing Macs (or, better yet, *doze-based) machines on stage.
Imagine power-chute-shot computers slamming down to the stage...
If this thing can play any of the solos from Frank Zappa's seminal album I'll deep fry my gonads while shaving my head with a cheese grater and chewing aluminum foil in a running microwave.
No really.
In Soviet Russia, the guitar plays you.
Because I have low karma, I need pills.
Anyone who spends any time reading interviews with guitarists will eventually come across some guitarist - it could be almost any guitarist - saying about their favorite guitarists:
The great thing about B.B. is that while other virtuoso guitarists can play twenty notes in the time it takes him to play one, he can "say" twice as much in that one note as they can in their twenty.
It's not even about perfection vs. imperfection. You can introduce slight random imperfection (simply not hitting notes perfectly), you can introduce procedural imperfection that adds specific style (say hitting off beats slightly ahead of the beat in order to create a rock/roll feel - hmm, wonder where that name came from) - but it still doesn't capture it.
It's about expression.
It's about the guitarist who reads the audience and knows the moment when the crowd moves from listening to feeling and can smoothly transition from relatively clean notes to ones where that little extra touch is needed. Add slight vibrato to every note and it's annoying, add it to the right moments and it adds that notion of human soul. And, the thing is, it's different, every night, for the same song, depending on the audience.
It's not about playing the eight bar intro, verse, chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, etc... It's about responding to Jim Morrison deciding to rail on the police who beat him back stage and knowing now is the time to take that twice repeated four bar intro and keep repeating it for however long it takes him to finish. It's about knowing tonight's the last night of a tour and it's just the right time to repeat the chorus that extra few times, to extend the solo - which, on a normal night, would be pretentious and turn the crowd off.
It's about the guitarist having a bad day, feuding with the singer, whatever, and playing aggressively and capturing the audience in the tension of the moment and that dynamic.
It's all those things and so much more. Even if you have a robot that simulates human perfection/imperfection brilliantly, it doesn't express how it's feeling, it doesn't adapt to how the gig's going, it just plays the same things (with whatever generated imperfection) every night - or, potentially, improvises without any awareness of how the rest of the gig is going.
Program a robot and, sure, you can fake the technical aspects. But music's about having a "soul". Soul is all those aspects mentioned above and more - it's far more than just perfection or imperfection.
Give me the choice: A guitarist who can play Ywingie under the table, technically and it terms of number of notes played, or B.B. playing two or three perfectly expressive notes per bar and I'll take B.B. every time.
He contested that you only need "three cords, two fingers, and one asshole" to make a hit song.
- String muting - a big problem here. When playing guitar you can mute the strings that you're not playing with either your left or right hand. Notice how all of the strings "ring out" after playing a note? A key change on this thing would not sound good.
- Bending - half the fun of playing the guitar is that you can bend notes. Bending and sliding is what can make a guitar 'sing' - similar to a voice.
- Tremolo - to make your playing have any sense of feeling you need to be able to tremolo a note. That means slightly varying the pitch of it. This can be done in a few different ways - none that are possible here.
- Strumming - ask it to strum a chord. It can't. Individual picks for each string is kind of cool, but won't sound any good when playing any songs recorded in the past 80 years.
- Harmonics - can it play a one?
- String selection - a good guitarist will pick particular strings for playing a particular note. These sound completely different because of a few reasons - an A on the bottom E string (fifth fret) compared with playing an A on the A string (open) will have a very different timbre. Doesn't look like that's possible here.
- Range - the guitar actually has a very large range compared to other instruments. Doesn't look like you can get past the 5th fret here.
- Legato, hammerons and pulloffs - can it 'flutter' between two notes?
All of these things are particular to an acoustic guitar. As for trying to duplicate an electric guitar with distortion - that would be freaking cool but very hard.NO feel. No dynamics. Just plunk plunk plunk.
Ha! Old news. Concordia students made same thing way before Georgia Tech. http://ctr.concordia.ca/2004-05/apr_07/06/
lets look at the file path... http://www.me.gatech.edu/mechatronics_lab/Projects /Fall00/group3/sound.htm
fall of 2000, this doen't seem to be BREAKING NEWS
If anyone's wondering where the seemingly random '29 notes' figure comes from:
The fretting mechanism works on the first four frets, so each string can have five notes fretted on it (the four frets, and 'open', or no note fretted). Over six strings, this is 30 notes.
The fact that the G and B strings only have four semitones between them, as opposed to five for the other strings, means that there's an overlap of one note between those two strings: B can be played twice in that octave, reducing the number of distinct notes to 29.
What a waste of time. I guess it is a neat robot; but what exactly did they accomplish?
http://www.vai.com/ :0)
Robots that play better than Steve will only be made after AI is invented and Duke Nukem 3 is released. Which is a long way to say, never.
and yet, your sly use of "ghey"... that's no where near "gay" at all... FAG!!!!!!!!!1111111111one-dy eleven
At my school(UCSB), 4 engineers made a self-tuning attachment for a guitar. Then a human can still play it, in perfect pitch. Thats alot more fun than watching a robot play. The demo was quite impressive, it would tune the guitar to any profile u set, with just one strum of the strings.
Moderation Totals: Flamebait=2, Troll=1, Redundant=1, Insightful=6, Overrated=1, Underrated=1, Total=12. (not mine)
That while you can teach a robot to play a guitar, you can't teach a robot the art of the guitar.
Sure the robot can pluck away but what is it really doing than playing tune a human created. Humans are the art and science behind music.
You really think a robot will ever be able to play with the style and finese of Eric Clapton? Hardly.
As Radiohead says, anyone can play guitar.
I'll be worried when it gets addicted to heroine and starts banging groupies and trashing hotel rooms.
There's no failure quite as dissatisfying as a complete and total solution to the wrong problem.
And not even all that good considering that Virtual Guitarist has been out for years and sounds better.
o duct_id=2041&Langue_ID=2&doctype=238&templ=10&divi sion_id=&loc=doc238
http://www.steinberg.de/displaydoc_sb5e0b.html?Pr
The fact that its using a real guitar is mitigated by the fact that the playing sounds super mechanical.
having heard the same thing about chess players a few decades back!
by Robots. Doesn't this guy already do that?
could he ever be at MTV's unplugged?
One of the most annoying things that people do is say stuff like, "Manual labor workers, your days are numbered! Machines are taking over! Someone built a robot that could lift a LEGO!" Or, "Artists, your days are numbered! A robot shat out a bunch of paint onto a canvas that resembled William Shatner!" Nothing can replace human work on certain things.
http://www.capturedbyrobots.com/
Yeah, I'm sure Steve Vai is trembling in fear over these news...
... and then, at the end of the performance, the guitar sets itself on fire!
Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird.
http://www.me.gatech.edu/mechatronics_lab/Projects /Movies/GUIT1.AVI
I would like to point out a couple of things, why this thing won't be able to play like a human being.
:)
1. Crazy J can't bend
2. Crazy J can't slide
3. Crazy J can't palm-mute
I would like to add one more thing: if you listen to the demo songs, Lola is not played by the Crazy J itself, but you can hear an electric guitar in the back.
BUT, from engineering point of view, I do have to give credit though
If it were only equipped with robotic tuning keys. Sounds like crap, looks like crap.
Boo.
and so even more soul gets sucked from the world.
Sure it can _play_ the guitar... but can it smash it up at the end of the show? Doesn't look like it from the pictures to me, so what's the point?
Sure, this robot can play Hendrix, but can it have an egomanical fit because there wern't enough lights on him for the solo, punch a reporter for taking his picture, drink a fifth of JD, suck up five gs worth of coke faster than a hoover, throw a tv out a window and top it all off by throwing up on a nekkid groupie?
It will be a long time before a robot can replace a guitarist, my friend.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
If you listen to a player like marty friedman, he really makes effective emotional use...
Wait...did I hear you say 'marty friedman', and 'emotional' in the same sentince?
Old Marty is quite a player, and had cranked out some catchy tunes with mr. mustane and on his own, but I haven't hear anyone anyone ever describe his playing as 'emotional'...
NO MORE DRUGS FOR THIS MAN!
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
Sure, the robot can pluck some notes. But how about style. How about how the note is held just right, or the slide along the fret... or a million other things that make music an true artform.
Hah, guitar playing robot. There are tons of those on MTV (not to mention "singing" fem-bots).
The calendar's!
Also, back when I was in high school, one classic reason to play guitar was that girls liked it when you did that, and this robot isn't going to pick up that many girls... (I didn't play guitar back then, did find other ways to meet girls, though.)
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
It even has a fan! Just like a real guitarist! Those have those, right?
What do you mean he's not dead? Have you seen him lately?
Brocklesby Park Cricket Club
Why are there only 23 fingertips and not 24? There are 6 strings in a guitar and if it covers the first four frets worth of junk, shouldn't it be 6 x 4?
Believing something doesn't make it true. Not believing something doesn't make it false.
Sure, not everybody's Jerry Garcia or Karl Franzen. But music isn't just about listening to performances - it's about *playing*. You can have a lot of fun hanging out with other musicians jamming, and even if you're playing standard pieces, the group improvisation is a really pleasant experience, and sometimes even sounds good to people who are listening. I play dulcimer, and I'm only beginning to play guitars and ukuleles and such, but once you've acquired a few basic skills you can keep up with other players at least by playing background chords and occasional improv. The San Francisco Bay Area is rife with amateur music get-togethers - lots of Irish musicians, and a bunch of old-timey and various folkies, some French stuff, and presumably lots of other genres. Old-Timey has the advantage that it's usually at a moderate speed, and usually only plays in a couple of different keys that work well for fiddlers and don't require the banjo players to retune, so three or four chords will get you started and it's fun music. (And learning a few guitar chords means that you can often look at a guitar player and figure out what keys you're in and where you are in the music, which can be immensely helpful.) Good musicians are usually very helpful and patient with people sitting in on jam sessions, though you may not be able to play every note or every measure depending on how fast the group is going.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
you prise my Hofner bass from my cold, dead fingers
Suudenly I will no longer be able to enjoy playing a guitar!! All is lost!! Or not.
This thing must've cost a lot of money. And i bet it took quite alot of hours of thinking, pondering and building it before it turned out the way it did.
:)
What did they get after all that effort?
A machine playing a wonderful instrument with the grace of Hulk Hogan - that Layla-version (with a MIDI-track playing in the background) sounded just.. awful. Sure, that might be a "beta-track", better things might come out of this thing. But sometimes i get a bit aggrevated when i see what people either get paid to do, or get funds to do.
Sure, those thingies playing the guitar might come in hand for other projects. But.. Ack.
www.freshpilot.com
...a producer said to the Beatles, "Guitar rock is so pasé!". and you bet he was pissed off after they got signed elsewhere. watching a robot play the guitar mut be boring as hell though, and you can make a robot take acid and come up with the craziest music ever.
Try Robert Fripp. He's a freak and he's training others to be freaks, too. He's like the Neal Peart of guitar: deadly frickin' accurate every single time. Very spooky. He's the only guitarist I could see being able to play with the Philip Glass Ensemble.
I saw a robot like this on TV years ago - except it could fret any string anywhere on the fretboard (not fretless), because it had a 'fingertip' for every possible position.
I think it was made by one of the Japanese tech companies. It could play some pretty complex music, including stuff humans can't play, due to it not being limited by finger length - so it could play a bass line and melody simultaneously on the same guitar (or multiple bass lines, etc).
This was like 5+ years ago. A quick google yields nothing, but I remember it well.
Now there's a troll headline if I've ever seen one. And it worked. You got dozens of "omg real guitarists are better lol" -replies in a second.
The whole "completely replacing" idea is impossible. Did cars replace horses? For 99.5% of transport purposes in western countries, yes. Do cars look romantic against sunset, wind waving their fuzzy dice? Maybe. Do they neigh and kick passers-by? Rarely. They are not, and are not supposed to be the exactly same thing. It's just a question of valueable qualities. Some of them can be improved, less important ones can be left out. It's a different thing which works better for the most common purposes. Jet engines allow faster movement than wheels, but if you also require that they are round, made of wood and require no fuel, you have...yep, reinvented the wheel.
So, it's a total joke that a robot would replace guitar players in the "entirely same" sense. The editors know this very well but decided to throw in a troll headline anyway. Do not take that so seriously. You just make a fool of yourself. Your CD-player is not a live orchestra but at least it's possible to place one in a living room for less than $100. Mechanical guitar player may have its uses as well, but claiming it to be "absolutely better" is utter nonsense. They still aren't Porsches which pull tourists around Vienna and neither is your drunk, messy and smelly guitar player going anywhere. (Although Bender would get close...)
whats going on in the software side.
After playing over 20 years, its amazing to see where the technology takes us. I use PC to make music and thus im very interested about whats happening on the music-software side.
For example, http://www.simulanalog.org/guitarsuite.htm
has a cool project going, cant wait for the Vintage Suite to appear.
(its a VST plugin but there's some mp3's to listen also)
Allthought, there's still a lot to improve on the modeling these days, but its getting better all the time.
One of the coolest sites, ever: zombo.com
We need a "Deep Blue" competition. I propose Leo Kottke. When the machine can do "Living in the Country" with bass run and rhythme on a 12-string, he has something to worry about.
what matters in music is not the execution, which anybody with some training is able to do after a while. What really matters is the composition
At least the court system agrees, unfortunately. Subconsciously copied melody + completely original execution = copyright infringement and seven-figure liability, according to this journal entry. With precedents like Bright Tunes Music v. Harrisongs Music and Three Boys Music v. Michael Bolton on the books (look them up here), what is a composer to do?
Maybe they should submit a few mp3s to guitarwar.com and see how it rates ;P
Still no replacement for Zakk Wylde here people...move along...
Content Management System: A pretentious way of saying "text editor."
The art form will never die... how long have MIDI keyboards been around?
Or MIDI guitars, for that matter?
Actually, talking of '80s tech (like MIDI) and guitars reminds me of something that was said (in all seriousness) during the mid-1980s (IIRC) when samplers were just starting to become popular in the music industry.
It went along the lines of "by sampling Jimi Hendrix tracks, you would be able to effectively create a new Jimi Hendrix song". Now, those probably weren't the exact words. I don't think the person was necessarily claiming that this would necessarily be the 'work of Hendrix' per se; but he *was* implying that you could create a new guitar song by sampling Hendrix.
Sure, you might be able to sample a bass guitar, or a single riff, and you might get away with it once or twice; but if you use it repeatedly, it's going to become obvious that it's a sample. And if you think that you can take something as fluid as Hendrix's guitar playing and (using '80s tech) reassemble it into a different, but "authentic-sounding" Hendrix track, you need your head (or ears) examined.
On reflection, it sounds like something Look Around You would have parodied.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
The first pic looks like something out of Gulliver's Travels.
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
Music isn't played, at least, not be the even half way decent musicians. It's interpretted. My computer can "play" Bach concerts perfectly, not missing a not. I've yet to see a thousand people pack an auditorium to hear a Sound Blaster card rattle off Classical.
Music is full of so many nuances, that even the composers will spent the rest of their lives exploring their own songs. I don't care if the robot can play as well as Tom Morrello, without AI and an imagination, all it really is, is a wind up music box.
Still, props to the inventors, that'd still be a sweet robot.
I8-D
As a bassist, this just makes me laugh. All us bassists have to deal with an out of time guitarist, and the idea of keeping up with a robot timer reminds me of my first year playing with the tick-tock-tick-tocking of the metronome! I'll REALLY be scared when they start making bass playing robots that can feel the groove and force human guitarists to submit to their all encompasing rythem powers. Until then, they will never beat me!
I like to kill your couch. HE DIED HARD! MOO.
Howmany tongue's does it emulate?
An automatic guitar had already been build, by Nicolas Anatol Baginsky ; with the additional ability to learn. Now there's even a band:
http://www.the-three-sirens.info/
Here are two samples:
http://www.baginsky.de/agl/snd/tton7.mov
http://www.baginsky.de/agl/snd/aglclip.mov
It doesn't sound bad, does it ?
must be rolling in his grave!
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, The hands acqui
>Guitarists, your Days are Numbered
Is this a quote from the Desperado movie?
Can the robot guy handle the gun or get laid by Salma Hayek?
Seriously, though. I just started trying to teach myself how to play guitar a few weeks ago, and now they've got this robot? I didn't think my playing was that bad...
-KD
I also own a Yamaha high-end keyboard (full 88 key, acceleration keys, 128 voice polyphonic), and it's main piano "voice" was digitally sampled from a Steinway. It sounds wonderful, but I could pick the Yamaha out of a bunch of real pianos from a mile away. The pitch was always too perfect, the decay was always to predictable, etc.
Have you ever heard that song 'The Reason' by Hoobastank? I read someone criticising it, and downloaded the f***** just to hear what it was like. Apparently it was a massive US hit, but it only got to #12 in the UK (and I'd *never* heard it).
Anyway... I start the thing playing. There's this repeated piano note that starts the thing off, and it sounds *so* fake, each time it plays sounding *exactly* like the last, the timing being *so* perfect that it's obviously been sampled and quantised to excessive perfection.
It *really* grates the first time I hear it. I can *not* believe that this wasn't picked up on by the masses who bought this crap. I mean, excessively polished production is nothing new, but this just sounds *fake*, synthesised, not even like a real piano.
Don't even get me started on the rest of the song... apart from being schmaltzy US-chart-friendly toss, what really got up my nose was the intonation he used to indicate "emotion" when he was singing. You know, the "I'm in great pain" or "really deep feelings" emotion that are supposed to sound 'soulful'.
THIS was obviously a real human singing (which of course it was), and yet managed to sound utterly fake, because it was too perfect. Like the guy wasn't *feeling* any of this emotion, but had listened to other (better) singers who did, and had rehearsed, mimicked, homogenised and honed their style so perfectly, and in so corporate a manner that it came across as sickeningly over-perfect.
Perhaps they'd used something like ProTools to erase the imperfections from his voice, but to be honest, the problems were at a more subtle level; a soulless white boy applying some perfectly-learned "emotional" techniques to his singing, as if they were another dial on the producer's console; "How much emotion do you want? Shake on this much..."
It doesn't take a machine to be overly perfect.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
It played a song then tore up a picture of the pope.
Because watching a machine play pre-programmed music is every bit as cool as watching a talented individual spontaneously express him/herself.
Whoever thinks that machines are going to replace musicians has never picked up an instrument, nor been truly touched by the beauty of music.
But I can see these robots reproducing the hits that (real) musicians write...
On a side note, the description of this machine in the articles blurb strongly reminds me of the Devil in Futurama when he challenged Fry to a fiddle playing contest. 8)=
theres no problem until it can have to0 many beers when the gigs running late and it can play as badly as I can. Even after a lifetimes worth of practice
I don't think Joe Satriani is quaking in his boots...
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. ~~ Hunter S. Thompson
Freebird Anyone?
The next step would be to have a guitar which allows to record the
mechanical forces which apply to the strings, when a guitarist plays it
and feed that back into Crazy J. This would allow a preservation of a
play in a very compressed way.
I heard once a public lecture of Negroponte from the MIT media lab,
where he invited the audience to think about the fact that recording
all the forces onto piano keys would allow storage or transmission of
music information in an interesting way. The play of an artist could so
be preserved efficiently. The compression effort is very expensive and
needs a lot of hardware, but the compression rate is enormous. Unlike
formats like midi, it contains all the musical interpretation
of the artist.
Having stored the play in a mechanical way could have applications. One
could try how the "pianist" or "guitarist " would play on an other
instrument, one could correct mistakes or analyze, what features make
a good pianist or guitarist. Further applications are that one could
play musical pieces on real pianos or guitars which humans are
physically incapable to play, for example by pure limitation of the
number of fingers or speed limits of the fingers.
[rant] Can't it even sweep pick? Bah... [/rant]
The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
I really don't think the title was serious, c'mon.
;)
loosen up..... more humour.
M.
Can he play "Stairway to Heaven"?
Yay, now we can hear the real thing, not that fake robot rock that almost got me fired.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Wonder if it will develop a drug problem.
yeah, ok...whatever. who wants to sit and watch a robot play the guitar?? who wants to listen to cold, unfeeling, perfectly played notes? that's not music. the wonderful thing about truly great performances is that the artist pours his emotion and feeling into the music. the slight nuances and variations in note strength and length are vital to conveying emotion. sure, these can be REPRODUCED on a computer, but they will never replace human performances...EVER.
It takes just a moment and an action to destroy. It takes some time and thought to create.
Seems like this thread was written by a jealous bass-player. Because we all know that basists...
the same thing about pianists?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_piano
This robot guitar sounds like a hammered dulcimer, and we all know how popular those are!
I was most impressed by the Lola track because they managed to make it sound like a mildly competent guitarist--just like the original recording! I didn't like how it had an obviously layered distorted track with a second guitar playing lead and bending notes. Kinda ruins the credibility.
I've played guitar for many many years and I don't feel threatened by this at all. Heck, I actually kinda like it, but it's not at all like a real guitar player.
An above-average synth player can simulate a better guitar than this. What's missing from this robot is the almost endless expressive control that real hands and fingers can provide. Something as simple as changing the picking position, for instance, can radically change the tone.
I'm no luddite--if someone can duplicate a guitar player mechanically, more power to them! This ain't quite there yet.
-- Boycott Shell
oh... wait... basses are guitars...
goes off to sulk
I don't moderate anymore. Karma penalty for 90% fair mods? Can I mod that unfair?
the only guitarists threatened by this machine are those who have had their elbow joint fused together, since this thing can't play a note above the 5th fret.
http://www.capturedbyrobots.com/
Captured by Robots has been around for many years now... I saw them at a rock show at least 5yrs ago (DRMBOT freaked me the heck out...I think I had nightmares for the next two nights!). At least GTRBOT66 looks like a robot. The schoolies machine doesn't leave much of the guitar exposed...it might as well not be there...
I heard Crazy J play a perfect version of John Cage's 4'33".
It looks similar to what Eric Royer has been doing for years in the subways of Boston http://www.guitarmachine.com/
Of course the robot will never replace a guitarist, we all know it. But that's not the point. The point is that a bunch of teens got together and built this thing that goes from MIDI to Real instrument instead of the usual other way around. Check out the Control Code page on the project's site.
And to make it a bit more interesting, here's an idea for the Crazy J team: Use this self-tuning guitar for next year's project, integrate its controls with the Crazy J's and voila, you'll be able to actually bend strings...
Uncopyrightable: The longest word you can write without repeating a letter.
That's nothing. This guy created an entire band out of robots. They sound pretty good too. http://www.capturedbyrobots.com/
They've been around for over 100 years but pianists and non-player pianos still greatly outnumber them.
There have been player pianos for 100 years. I'm glad the we are one step closer to the player four piece ensemble. Make the player vocal chord, then I'll be impressed (no, I don't mean a speaker).
...U2
"to play a range of 29 musical notes" - clever robot! It found 22 new musical notes !
Did Netcraft confirm this?
It's the battle of the minds, and everyone's unarmed.
http://www.thehouseontherock.com/html/attraction.h tm
The House on the Rock in Spring Green, Wisconsin, has numerous automated instruments, including a fully automated symphony orchestra. It's been about 15 years since I was there, but I remember it being pretty impressive at the time.
So, when one of these plays better than Ritchie Blackmore will it be called "Deep Purple"?
There are only 6,863,795,529 types of people in the world.
I can comfortably say that they are not rivals since i've gone to both UGA (BA in drunken tomfoolery) and Georgia Tech (MS in pixel pushing).
Tech can't compete with UGA in the fields of drinking, hooking up or even the simple art of conversation. UGA can't compete with Tech in anything you might learn at college that isn't good for happy hour conversation.
Looks like we won't even need Peter Frampton to make his guitar sing in the robot voice anymore, the fucking real robot will be doin it! DO YOU FEEL LIKE WE DO??!?!?!?!!
Does anyone else think it sounds like a banjo?
They had this in the late 80's early 90's. I think it was called "the human drummer" or "The human rhythm machine" I don't remember, but it would take a sample of what was coming off the MIDI line and adjust it's rhythm to be ever so slightly off (read: more human)
I guess it really didn't take off though because I can't find anything on it at all (i guess I'll have to look through my 80's guitar mags)
I had also read the Joe Satriani and his producer are nuts about making a drum machine not sound like a machine. Most (if not all) of Joe's albums are done with Drum Machines, what they do is change all the settings slightly for each drum hit so they all sound different. So listen to "Satch Boogie" and hear how good a drum machine can sound.
P.S. - The other side of this is real drummers using electric drum kits. They will show off how bad you rhythm is if you don't play on the beat.
Success is not the result of spontaneous combustion, you must set yourself on fire.
Until they can find a robot that can snort crack, bite off a bat's head and dive into the crowd, true gutarists have nothing to worry about!
Though it could give a new meaning to the term, 'manufactured Band'
his 2nd solo disc is really, really good. everyone i play it for likes it. even women, the kind that hate metal / guitar music.
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
Have you really listened to the sound clips? If your "listening skills" have become so bad that you think it's worth a real guitarist, then you may be the one who could use a robot ear.
...as much as i do?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
..just because I'm an electronic music geek. Programs that add micro-quantization errors are definitely key, actually, I think I remember Cakewalk being able to "mess up" the quantization of midi notes pretty far back in the version history.
In addition, I had a professor for an electronic music class that had written a genetic algorithm system for jazz improvisation, and would use it to back himself up on trumpet.
"Imperfectness"? Check. Improvisation? Check.
Next question?
--- What
http://www.me.gatech.edu/mechatronics_lab/
There are over five years of projects with pictures, video and more.
By the way, the develoment TA, Akio (not me), is looking for a job ;)
"That's not ironic, it's just mean!" - Bender
More importantly, it can't: -don spandex -play behind its head (23 fingers, but no head - wtf?!) -wear armadillos in its trousers -light itself on fire -entertain groupies -be pawned to pay rent Isn't that what guitar is all about? This thing sux.
Try Robert Fripp. He's a freak and he's training others to be freaks, too. He's like the Neal Peart of guitar: deadly frickin' accurate every single time. Very spooky. He's the only guitarist I could see being able to play with the Philip Glass Ensemble.
Fripp has played with King Crimson off and on.
I think he's like 60 years old. I hope he can train at least a few more.
Captured! By Robots' Guitarbot has been doing this for years in a slightly less sophisticated way (think drop-D grunge vs. Steve Vai or something). But Guitarbot gets extra points for also playing bass.
The truth doesn't care what I think.
I play the banjo.
the house on the rock in WI has whole rooms filled similar things. how is this even worth commenting on?
They forgot the "Wank" button. ;)
slashdot sures knows how to get a guitarist rowled up..
*plays the Apogee theme song music*
This means that we'll just have to breed a better guitarist (maybe breed humans with 12 fingers instead of 10, like in the movie Contact -- the 12-fingered pianist) or breed a guitarist with four hands and four arms so that he can play two guitars at once.
And I'm sure that what the world needs right now is more mechanical guitar playing. Because that sounds SO good.
Now I'll have to throw away my guitar. But if they build hentai sex robots I'll have to throw away my wife.
all your guitar are belong to us
I think it has need for a lot of improvement. A lot of improvement.
Besides, the basic concept they've done isn't so difficult to work through. I'll be impressed when they build one that can do slides, or have enough finnese to give it feeling.
I've seen some posts about how the machine will never rival human guitar player. I have to disagree with that. That state of control systems is such that with more work, Crazy J or one of its offspring would be able to use more than 5 frets, do string dynamics (bends, slides, hammers, pulloffs, scratching and harmonics), mute the bridge, etc.
No one has mentioned the limitations of the human hand. I can reach 5 frets on a good day, but the machine would not suffer from this limitation in a future version. My fat fingers have problems with crowded chords, that would be no problem for a machine. Plus, I only have 5 fingers, and you could equip the machine with as many "fingers" as it needs. And best of all, no fatigue or hand cramps: the machine could play as fast as John McLaughlin for as long required!
One thing that would need to be modified is the input. MIDI input is OK for 1.0, but a protocol based on guitar tablature would be more effective in producing the sounds we really like to hear. MIDI is too generic to capture the dynamics of guitar.
That's an understatement. Fripp is King Crimson. The only person in every incarnation of King Crimson, from 1968 (or so) to today. No, he doesn't sing or even write lyrics. But it is fair to say that there is no King Crimson without him. If Belew wanted to continue with Levin and whatever drummer, they would't be King Crimson anymore, at least to any real KC fan.
I saw inside the Engineering building.... Although budget limitations were probably the reason for something that simple.....
In undeveloped countries, the consumer controls the market. In capitalist America, the market controls you.
Ahem...
In Soviet Russia, robotic guitar plays YOU!
Thank you.
You never expect irony, do you?
Want to be a professional wrestler? Visit www.iyfwrestling.com
@iyfwrestling
I've seen a VERY similar contraption at school... A couple of engineering students did this as their final-year project. Prior art anyone? :)
RoboKeith
More details here
Some friends of mine in The Project Hate MCMXCIX used this methodolgy for their programmed drums. Each piece of the synthesized drum kit had 6-10 different samples associated with it. This way, each hit would differ slightly. This technology was only used on their most recent album (of which there is one sample track available on the website). Although the drum programming on previous efforts is a little better than your standard fare, I noticed a stark difference on the new recording.
Little more than a midi-controlled guitare-timbred harpsicord. Oh wait! Harpsicords can play more than six notes at a time.
{ return clarity; }
GEORGE: Wilkinson's got a bite on a new one.. Petramco Corp. Out of, hu, Springfield. I think. They're about to introduce some sort of robot butcher.
JERRY: A robot butcher?
Hello,
I am the development TA for this mechatronics class.
The Crazy J guitar was made by three students, Jason, Susan, and Turner over the course of one quarter (not semester) five years ago.
Their prior knowledge about Mechatronics was limited before they took the class. They learned basic microcontrollers, assembly for the HC11, and basic electronics in class lectures and laboratory lectures at the same time they were constructing their project.
Everything was hand made by they alone. The mechanics were designed, machined,and sandblasted by them. They designed the circuits and actually made them using a circuit board router and soldering Iron. Of course the program for the HC11 was written by them.
After the end of the course, they are able to apply in control theory in a real physical system instead of playing around with simulations.
This project's scope was limited due to the time constraint of one quarter. Of course they are off to a great start so who knows what they will come up with in the future.
If you want to see a movie of the guitar playing, more projects, or lab exercises for the course. Go to http://www.me.gatech.edu/mechatronics_lab
Thanks,
Akio
Rumors of next version include AI software that demands that it be placed at the front in the middle of the stage and wants the keyboard player to sit towards the back, left side of the stage, preferably behind the amps where he can't be seen, or ideally offstage. And it only wants the keyboardist to "make weird noises and stuff", not actually play melodic lines.
Sorry, just joining a prog metal band, I've got a few thousand bucks of gear with more processing and synthesizing power than they have in their entire house, and they want me to use it for making weird noises and pad sounds. Organ sounds "too retro" and synth leads "just don't fit, we already have a melodic instrument, we don't need another". *grumble grumble*
Can they make this thing play electric guitar? This really is nothing new, player pianos have been around since 1900, although the originals working on a vacuum system couldn't impart dynamics into the sequence. Modern digital player pianos can, as well as provide background accompaniment. QRS even has a digital player violin that actually bows a real violin back and forth. I've never personally seen one of these, so I can't vouch for its expressiveness.
kurzweil_freak
5th Kyu Genbukan Ninpo/KJJR student
Be the darkness that allows the light to shine.
With the latest in electronica sounding much more pleasing than most guitar acts... ;P
I'm kidding. I love electronca more than guitars, but they still have their place. I play guitar in order to create interesting loops for use in electronica. Not to mention, I don't think any robotic musicians will gain a following like a human musician within our lifetimes. Maybe 200 years from now when the machines have advanced significantly, but not within the 21st century. Just look at what Max Headroom did in the 80s. He was a faked computer generated TV host that was more of a short lived fad than anything else. Even if it weren't faked today, this kind of thing never catches on.
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
...because I was going to say the same damn thing.
GIT has come up with a cool product, but they aren't the first. Captured by Robots is a complete robotic eight peice band (complete with horn section). This vocalist is the only human on stage. He has not only built his entire thrash metal band, but created a back story that the robots have taken him hostage to play or be tortured.
WWJDFAKB - What would Jesus do for a Klondike Bar?
PDF here.
Google cache, but the pictures are worth seeing
[FUCK BETA]
As a guitarist I have to say this thing is very cool. Those of my axe-wielding brethren who are getting defensive about "oh it can't bend strings / play harmonics / do 2-hand tapping like Joe Satriani" are surely missing the point. It's a cool piece of robotics, it plays a guitar and it's interesting. It'd be interesting to see them put the fingertips all the way up the neck - it'd be great to hear it play something that is physically impossible for a human to play. It must also have an application for luthiers. Given that the sound of a guitar involves the interaction between fingers, string, guitar (and pickups -> electronics -> amps etc) it'd be a very useful way to standardise the sound across mass-produced guitars. Yes I'd also like a hand-made PRS custom but if I have only a little money to spend it would be nice to know that the guitar I get isn't a dud. It would be handy for automatic setup of guitars - being able to check the intonation - those "fingertips" look as though they could be set to hover on the string at the harmonic points. Being able to check that the frets aren't sticking out too much, are properly aligned etc. in a factory where 1000s are being built at once would surely be a useful asset.
This is going to raise an interesting question -- which is more sought after, the artistic content or the performer.
When you go to see someone play, are you going to see _them_ play (even if there are inaccuracies) or is it to experience the real music.
Sometimes I'm disappointed when a concert rendition doesn't hold "true" to the recording studio's copy, and othertimes I'm more entertained when it's the performance. (e.g. Would Blue Man Group be as interesting without the showmanship?)
Then again, as a geek, I'd pay to see a guitar playing robot.
Have you guys not seen http://www.capturedbyrobots.com/ ? This guy fucking rules & GTRBOT is not to be fucked with. You have to see this shit live to full appreciate.
Dude, Fripp IS King Crimson. Don't listen to what he says, I mean it sounds very poetic all that stuff about music that needs to be played and then KC is formed etc but the truth of the matter is there's no crimson without Fripp.
He hasn't played with Crimson on and off. He disintegrates Crimson for a while, does some solo stuff or whatever, then assembles the band again with whomever is available (Levin, Gunn, Bruford, Belew, Mastelotto, etc) and does something with them.
Go hug some trees.
Ya right. I'm 45 and have been playing guitar since i was 13. I'd like to see said robot follow me for 8 bars! I bet I can blow it up in less than 4. My days are numbered - Ya sure, right, ok, whatever!
:)
I'd be upset - but I can't stop laughing. I can play better than any machine - I'd really like to see this thing to improve jazz fusion. It doesn't stand a chance, poor sot!
Cheers.
A single person created an entire band out of robots. I can't seem to find images of it, but this isn't original.
Usually my first exposure is to the radio, which often has different version than what it available on CD. However, while I'm wanting to see the artist perform the song, sometimes I'm not exactly enjoying the improv version. Glad they can do it? Sure. And, some are much better than others. I suppose it's a matter of preference, that's all.
But can Crazy J. finger-tap?