Why don't you make a list of all the applications you get in the windows install, and I'll make a list of all the apps I get in a debian install using the same space.
Better yet, you do a minimum install and I do a minimum install and we compare cos who needs this 1gig shit? I can still do an install in a couple hundred megs easily.
Oh wait, let me use any linux distribution I want. That way I can install smalllinux with smallX (real projects) and run a full OS with a graphical interface similar to windows 98 (of course much more advanced under the hood, reiserfs, preempt kernel etc etc latest tech) on a pentium with 4mb of ram and a 50-100mb hard disk.
Oh no wait we're *not* done. How about I burn a knoppix CD, plug in a small usb key and run without a HD at all?
Oh we're not done yet, how about I take an embeded linux system designed for a mobile phone and put it on a usb key, boot from it and THAT is my OS? My OS, with full rights granted to me under the GPL on a USB key, yours still the same bloated shit you paid $100 for and have no rights over. I'll even know what mine is doing on my hardware, imagine that.
IMHO M$ is very good shorthand. Why bother typing out 'Microsoft' everytime when 'M$' does such a good job of saving keystrokes and capturing their essence as it were.
How I shorthand something has nothing to do with the validity of my argument. The people who assume my argument is merritless just because the two characters 'M$' offends them, those are the morons. : )
What is worse? A few broken computers, or a r00t3d network?
I think your priorities are wrong. Patch them, patch all the mofos on the day the patches come out. Do it automated if you have to. I wouldn't even care if my patching rebooted a computer while the luser was doing something on it. "If you wanted 5x9's of uptime you woulnd't have gone with windows, now suck it up while I do the ritual that keeps this shitty OS semi-secure"
If the patches break a few apps, then take the time to go fix them individually. If they do real damage sue the shit out of M$. Isn't that the usual attack on Free Software? "who do we sue when shit breaks?".
Besides, no one ever gets fired for choosing M$ right? Instead of having a compromised network (IMHO 100X worse) you may have some borked apps. So tell people it's all M$'s fault, go fix them and at least your network is secure for now.
That is until M$ holds onto a security hole for months without patching it and someone releases a worm first.
And if you're worried M$ is spying on you, why don't you call and complain? why don't you sue them? Oh yeah that's right it must be that legally-binding contract you have with them called an EULA which gives them all your base and the right to piss on you too. Have a nice day.
--BOFH
excuse my spelling, even though english is my second language I usually don't make such stoopid mistakes : )
I wish I could use linux at work. Konqueror's spell checking feature is wornderful.
We loose rights when corporations lobby for and purchase laws like the DMCA.
We loose rights when copyrights are extended indefinately.
Even when they fail to purchase such legislation, we loose our rights when we don't have the resources to fight them in court.
The courtsystem is extremely weighted in favour of the party with the most money.
You would think that, however you may want to think back to the recent U.S. boycot of French goods. I think people in the U.S., misguided as they were, actually managed to put a big dent in the american money flowing into a whole country.
If it's possible to have an impact with a boycot on a country, then it certainly should be on a large corporation also. People just have to have a greater level of organization.
I don't agree with the recent French boycot, I think it was stupid and people got played; but the people in control of it like bill O'reilly and some of the large corporations in america demonstrated how to organize an effective boycot against a large and varied entity.
How do other distros handle it? What a retarded question. Obviously, other distributions just include them because they want their stuff to work and don't like pissing off their userbase.
Ah, debian we love you for it though.
Don't go to that doctor.
It's complete bullshit that you have to do all this before seeing him. You don't know what's wrong and neither does he. You don't even know if anything is wrong. Besides which, fuck work! Your health is more important, you go see what's up, get it treated and only AFTER all this you figure out if it's a work injury or not etc etc.
get some exercise. Gentle as you need it. In fact you need to make sure your lifestyle is up to scratch.
LOL, linux is a kernel. I wonder which part of the kernel UI you're criticizing? Last time I checked, 'make menuconfig' gave me a decent UI for the task that was before me.
Well I've never seen the FLUTE thing!
But in England I once saw a guy pass me on the shoulder driving with one knee and rolling a joint. Maybe if you knew how hard it is for some of us to...
Cars in England don't have automatic transmissions either:>
Hey, there's no need to bust open a can of ad-hominem. If you read my other post, you will find that I was only looking for you to come out and make a statement to the effect of "I do not have any financial interest in emachines and I am not an employee of theirs".
That's proof enough for me and I would take you at your word.
However, what I find really interesting is that you *still* have not come out and said this. If you read your post, you only comment on your previous post history, not on your relationship or lackthereof to emachines.
Guess what, your previous post history has no correlation to whether you have a financial interest in the emachines company.
So go ahead, come out and say it in plain english and don't artfully dodge the question.
DO YOU HAVE A FINANCIAL INTEREST OR WORKING RELATIONSHIP WITH EMACHINES?
I don't care if I get modded down for this, but hey, it's something that needs to be said.
Ahh, the standard slashdot reverse psychology call of "MOD ME UP PLEASE". Aren't we smart.
I absolutely agree. Posts such as yours should never be moderated this high.
Hey that's great, but I was suggesting that the parent post should not be modded up. Your reading comprehension is somewhat lacking.
Just because someone is clearly impressed with a laptop that they've purchased (one that I am considering purchasing, as well) does not mean that they were paid by the laptop manufacturer to advertise it.
No it doesn't, thanks captain obvious for setting up a straw man and successfully deafeating it. Next time try not to spin my argument. I did not say that it meant 'that they were paid by the.. manufacturer to advertise it', I said that it seemed as if that was a strong possibility.
Ever heard this expression: "innocent until proven guilty"?
Yes, it's used in US criminal courts. Not in civil courts, not in the media, not in any other aspect of life. Don't try to fit a square peg into a round hole with a sanctimonious attitude. In this case it just happens to be more efficient to use preponderence of the evidence instead of assumption of innocence.
It's quite a popular phrase, and I think it very well applies in this case. The burden of proof is on you, so if you're going to accuse someone of astroturfing you better have some real proof. Show a connection between rosewood and eMachines, especially considering the number of "Insighful" and "Interesting" posts in his post history.
The popularity of your little ditty doesn't affect it's usefulness.
You stating your opinion that your little ditty applies, does not make it so
I do not have any 'burden of proof' I can throw out my opinion and you're free to pay attention or not
I don't have to show any connection, I merely asked that he respond saying that there were no links between him and the company, that's sufficient proof in my opinion. To form yours, use your own standards
The number of his previous highly modded posts has no correlation to whether he has a private stake in pushing this laptop
finally I didn't accuse him of anything, again you're setting up your little straw men, I merely said that in my opinion it seemed like astroturfing
I would also like to say that any review which only highlights positive points is a crap review, ie. should be modded down regardless of the reason. There are plenty of well balanced reviews to choose from which point out positive and negative aspects of the subject, why mod up one sided crap. It almost doesn't matter why it was one-sided other than astroturfing is more offensive to me than being in love with your new toy.
dude, I'm not a zealot for gentoo, in fact I would consider myself a debian proponent. I actually don't use gentoo anymore.
The point I was trying to make is that with gentoo, you can see a new small software package and throw together an ebuild and get it in the distribution right away. From this point forth, anyone else using gentoo can just emerge packagename and start using it. When the package has a minor update you can change the ebuild and resubmit it in 1 minute flat. Boom, the updated package is in the distro the same day it came out and anyone emerging it will get the new version. Creating packages and maintaining them is much less labour intensive.
This leads to gentoo having much more software packaged and ready to go, more versions of each package and more current software all the time.
That's not the only criterion one uses to judge a distro, hence my use of debian now. But it's an important one.
I really don't get it. This smells HARD of astroturf.
astroturfing n. The use of paid shills to create the impression of a popular movement, through means like letters to newspapers from soi-disant `concerned citizens', paid opinion pieces, and the formation of grass-roots lobbying groups that are actually funded by a PR group (astroturf is fake grass; hence the term). This term became common among hackers after it came to light in early 1998 that Microsoft had attempted to use such tactics to forestall the U.S. Department of Justice's antitrust action against the company.
This backfired horribly, angering a number of state attorneys-general enough to induce them to go public with plans to join the Federal suit. It also set anybody defending Microsoft on the net for the accusation "You're just astroturfing!".
Methinks slashdot needs to be more careful about who gets moderated up in these discussions. Of course if parent poster is not guilty, let them prove it.
I use both debian and gentoo.
One of the MAJOR advantages of gentoo is that it's easy to sit down for 20 minutes, learn how to create your own ebuilds, make one in 5 minutes and have it accepted the same day.
Debian just sucks for this.
Shame on you motherfuckers from Utah and Vermont who keep re-electing these scumbag sellout politicians. If I weren't employed full time I would take a trip to those two states and slap every one of you morons in the face with a wet trout.
I'm so dissapointed. Quake 2 is my favourite game of all time. I started with the original wolfenstein and I've played doom, all of the quake series, almost every mod released for the quake series, half-life, unreal, duke so so many FPS games I probably can't remember and for some reason, to this day quake 2 CTF is the one game I really wish would get the upgrade to current technology.
I was ecstatic when I heard that ID software themselves were going to undertake this and upgrade all the technology while leaving the gameplay untouched. Now it's just heartbrake.
John Carmack, if you happen to be reading, please reconsider.
Sure, there are other fun genres too and I don't play much quake 2 anymore simply because I like to see eye candy when I play. I like the easy to read HUDS better overall display and communications of more current games also.
But I have a feeling that even 5 or 10 years from now, I will still get that nostalgic feeling that leads me to bust out my old quake 2 cd and download the latest linux version, pop it in and realise that gameplay like that is a rare thing.
Well, if you go by that logic, then the RIAA DEFINATELY can't afford the lawyers to sue all those people either. Furthermore, the RIAA need the lawyers, the people can defend themselves. The best strategy would be for ALL of the people to refuse to settle and defend themselves.
Come on! we all know that if Microsoft wrote the bios for your computer it would be:
Dependant upon the OS, ie. windows
Closed source. Non-Free Software.
EULA'd up the ass-crack
Bloated. At least a million lines of code. Getting worse with each compulsory release, a fact they would gloat about instead of hang their heads in shame
Secure through obscurity; lots of exploits, fingers crossed no one ever sees the code *wink wink* 'our code is secure' ; 'Oh wait you want us to show our competitors! Nooo it's a risk to national security'.
Fairly expensive
Followed bi-yearly by new versions which broke compatibility slightly, were fairly expensive to upgrade to, brought little new functionality
Make use of cryptic, messy, secret, patent-encumbered file formats and interfaces.
Hard to fit into multi-OS environment
Prone to spitting out cryptic error messages as it bluescreened and hard locked
Somewhat likely to phone home with private user information
Fully Palladium(tm) compliant, locking the user out of every action not fully approved by corporate america regardless of the law.
Why would we not want to be subjected to all these wonderful qualities without the wait to get into windows? "Get everything listed and MORE in less than 20 seconds!"
Someone explain this to me because I don't understand why on earth people are settling...
Why is it that no one uses the most obvious defense of plausible deniability:
I have no idea what these RIAA guys are talking about
I have never used filesharing apps
I am not the only one who uses this computer, it is shared by multiple users and if anything happened it wasn't me.
I am not the only one who uses this internet connection and if anything happened it wasn't me.
I have no songs on my PC whatsoever and I can prove it
etc. etc.
THERE. DONE.
Even if they only have to prove a preponderence of the evidence, they would STILL have to deal with all of those items AND in the end you would still have a hard disk with no songs to beat them over the head with. It seems to me they could NEVER win one of these cases.
I don't know about anyone else, but that's much cheaper than settling for several thousand dollars. And that's if you don't hire a lawyer and contest that the RIAA don't have the right to get your personal info and the ISP don't have the right to hand it over as at least one person has done successfully.
I mean FFS, if people can get away with the "a virus hacked into my computer and did it" defense for criminal cases...
Congratulations to everyone who made this happen. From the major developers to the guys/gals who contributed little bits. I appreciate it. It's a very useful program used intensely by some and to a lesser degree (but still important) by many more.
Good luck on taking it to the next level.
Slashdot Mirror
Better yet, you do a minimum install and I do a minimum install and we compare cos who needs this 1gig shit? I can still do an install in a couple hundred megs easily.
Oh wait, let me use any linux distribution I want. That way I can install smalllinux with smallX (real projects) and run a full OS with a graphical interface similar to windows 98 (of course much more advanced under the hood, reiserfs, preempt kernel etc etc latest tech) on a pentium with 4mb of ram and a 50-100mb hard disk.
Oh no wait we're *not* done. How about I burn a knoppix CD, plug in a small usb key and run without a HD at all?
Oh we're not done yet, how about I take an embeded linux system designed for a mobile phone and put it on a usb key, boot from it and THAT is my OS?
My OS, with full rights granted to me under the GPL on a USB key, yours still the same bloated shit you paid $100 for and have no rights over.
I'll even know what mine is doing on my hardware, imagine that.
Why bother typing out 'Microsoft' everytime when 'M$' does such a good job of saving keystrokes and capturing their essence as it were.
How I shorthand something has nothing to do with the validity of my argument. The people who assume my argument is merritless just because the two characters 'M$' offends them, those are the morons. : )
I think your priorities are wrong. Patch them, patch all the mofos on the day the patches come out. Do it automated if you have to. I wouldn't even care if my patching rebooted a computer while the luser was doing something on it. "If you wanted 5x9's of uptime you woulnd't have gone with windows, now suck it up while I do the ritual that keeps this shitty OS semi-secure"
If the patches break a few apps, then take the time to go fix them individually. If they do real damage sue the shit out of M$. Isn't that the usual attack on Free Software? "who do we sue when shit breaks?". Besides, no one ever gets fired for choosing M$ right? Instead of having a compromised network (IMHO 100X worse) you may have some borked apps. So tell people it's all M$'s fault, go fix them and at least your network is secure for now.
That is until M$ holds onto a security hole for months without patching it and someone releases a worm first.
And if you're worried M$ is spying on you, why don't you call and complain? why don't you sue them? Oh yeah that's right it must be that legally-binding contract you have with them called an EULA which gives them all your base and the right to piss on you too. Have a nice day.
--BOFH
excuse my spelling, even though english is my second language I usually don't make such stoopid mistakes : )
I wish I could use linux at work. Konqueror's spell checking feature is wornderful.
We loose rights when copyrights are extended indefinately.
Even when they fail to purchase such legislation, we loose our rights when we don't have the resources to fight them in court.
The courtsystem is extremely weighted in favour of the party with the most money.
Do I have a solution? No. But the problem exists.
If it's possible to have an impact with a boycot on a country, then it certainly should be on a large corporation also. People just have to have a greater level of organization.
I don't agree with the recent French boycot, I think it was stupid and people got played; but the people in control of it like bill O'reilly and some of the large corporations in america demonstrated how to organize an effective boycot against a large and varied entity.
How do other distros handle it? What a retarded question.
Obviously, other distributions just include them because they want their stuff to work and don't like pissing off their userbase.
Ah, debian we love you for it though.
It's complete bullshit that you have to do all this before seeing him. You don't know what's wrong and neither does he. You don't even know if anything is wrong. Besides which, fuck work! Your health is more important, you go see what's up, get it treated and only AFTER all this you figure out if it's a work injury or not etc etc.
Hope that helps. IANA*.
LOL, linux is a kernel. I wonder which part of the kernel UI you're criticizing? Last time I checked, 'make menuconfig' gave me a decent UI for the task that was before me.
But in England I once saw a guy pass me on the shoulder driving with one knee and rolling a joint. Maybe if you knew how hard it is for some of us to
Cars in England don't have automatic transmissions either :>
It's still inside our criminal courts of law, where it belongs.
That's proof enough for me and I would take you at your word.
However, what I find really interesting is that you *still* have not come out and said this. If you read your post, you only comment on your previous post history, not on your relationship or lackthereof to emachines.
Guess what, your previous post history has no correlation to whether you have a financial interest in the emachines company.
So go ahead, come out and say it in plain english and don't artfully dodge the question.
DO YOU HAVE A FINANCIAL INTEREST OR WORKING RELATIONSHIP WITH EMACHINES?
That would be enough 'proof' because he could open himself up to civil suits if he turned out to be lying.
I guess I didn't make myself clear enough sorry. Yes, I would take him on his word.
Ahh, the standard slashdot reverse psychology call of "MOD ME UP PLEASE". Aren't we smart.
I absolutely agree. Posts such as yours should never be moderated this high.
Hey that's great, but I was suggesting that the parent post should not be modded up. Your reading comprehension is somewhat lacking.
Just because someone is clearly impressed with a laptop that they've purchased (one that I am considering purchasing, as well) does not mean that they were paid by the laptop manufacturer to advertise it.
No it doesn't, thanks captain obvious for setting up a straw man and successfully deafeating it. Next time try not to spin my argument. I did not say that it meant 'that they were paid by the.. manufacturer to advertise it', I said that it seemed as if that was a strong possibility.
Ever heard this expression: "innocent until proven guilty"?
Yes, it's used in US criminal courts. Not in civil courts, not in the media, not in any other aspect of life. Don't try to fit a square peg into a round hole with a sanctimonious attitude. In this case it just happens to be more efficient to use preponderence of the evidence instead of assumption of innocence.
It's quite a popular phrase, and I think it very well applies in this case. The burden of proof is on you, so if you're going to accuse someone of astroturfing you better have some real proof. Show a connection between rosewood and eMachines, especially considering the number of "Insighful" and "Interesting" posts in his post history.
- The popularity of your little ditty doesn't affect it's usefulness.
- You stating your opinion that your little ditty applies, does not make it so
- I do not have any 'burden of proof' I can throw out my opinion and you're free to pay attention or not
- I don't have to show any connection, I merely asked that he respond saying that there were no links between him and the company, that's sufficient proof in my opinion. To form yours, use your own standards
- The number of his previous highly modded posts has no correlation to whether he has a private stake in pushing this laptop
- finally I didn't accuse him of anything, again you're setting up your little straw men, I merely said that in my opinion it seemed like astroturfing
I would also like to say that any review which only highlights positive points is a crap review, ie. should be modded down regardless of the reason. There are plenty of well balanced reviews to choose from which point out positive and negative aspects of the subject, why mod up one sided crap. It almost doesn't matter why it was one-sided other than astroturfing is more offensive to me than being in love with your new toy.The point I was trying to make is that with gentoo, you can see a new small software package and throw together an ebuild and get it in the distribution right away. From this point forth, anyone else using gentoo can just emerge packagename and start using it. When the package has a minor update you can change the ebuild and resubmit it in 1 minute flat. Boom, the updated package is in the distro the same day it came out and anyone emerging it will get the new version. Creating packages and maintaining them is much less labour intensive.
This leads to gentoo having much more software packaged and ready to go, more versions of each package and more current software all the time.
That's not the only criterion one uses to judge a distro, hence my use of debian now. But it's an important one.
astroturfing n. The use of paid shills to create the impression of a popular movement, through means like letters to newspapers from soi-disant `concerned citizens', paid opinion pieces, and the formation of grass-roots lobbying groups that are actually funded by a PR group (astroturf is fake grass; hence the term). This term became common among hackers after it came to light in early 1998 that Microsoft had attempted to use such tactics to forestall the U.S. Department of Justice's antitrust action against the company.
This backfired horribly, angering a number of state attorneys-general enough to induce them to go public with plans to join the Federal suit. It also set anybody defending Microsoft on the net for the accusation "You're just astroturfing!".
Methinks slashdot needs to be more careful about who gets moderated up in these discussions. Of course if parent poster is not guilty, let them prove it.
I use both debian and gentoo.
One of the MAJOR advantages of gentoo is that it's easy to sit down for 20 minutes, learn how to create your own ebuilds, make one in 5 minutes and have it accepted the same day.
Debian just sucks for this.
well, wtf was the goal then?
We ain't got no features.
We don't need no features!
We don't need to show you no stinkin features!!
Tell ya what man. Why don't you do a console log in, then type "XFree86". Biiiingo :)
Shame on you motherfuckers from Utah and Vermont who keep re-electing these scumbag sellout politicians. If I weren't employed full time I would take a trip to those two states and slap every one of you morons in the face with a wet trout.
I started with the original wolfenstein and I've played doom, all of the quake series, almost every mod released for the quake series, half-life, unreal, duke so so many FPS games I probably can't remember and for some reason, to this day quake 2 CTF is the one game I really wish would get the upgrade to current technology.
I was ecstatic when I heard that ID software themselves were going to undertake this and upgrade all the technology while leaving the gameplay untouched. Now it's just heartbrake.
John Carmack, if you happen to be reading, please reconsider.
Sure, there are other fun genres too and I don't play much quake 2 anymore simply because I like to see eye candy when I play. I like the easy to read HUDS better overall display and communications of more current games also.
But I have a feeling that even 5 or 10 years from now, I will still get that nostalgic feeling that leads me to bust out my old quake 2 cd and download the latest linux version, pop it in and realise that gameplay like that is a rare thing.
Well, if you go by that logic, then the RIAA DEFINATELY can't afford the lawyers to sue all those people either. Furthermore, the RIAA need the lawyers, the people can defend themselves. The best strategy would be for ALL of the people to refuse to settle and defend themselves.
'our code is secure' ; 'Oh wait you want us to show our competitors! Nooo it's a risk to national security'.
Why would we not want to be subjected to all these wonderful qualities without the wait to get into windows?
"Get everything listed and MORE in less than 20 seconds!"
Why is it that no one uses the most obvious defense of plausible deniability:
THERE. DONE.
Even if they only have to prove a preponderence of the evidence, they would STILL have to deal with all of those items AND in the end you would still have a hard disk with no songs to beat them over the head with. It seems to me they could NEVER win one of these cases.
I don't know about anyone else, but that's much cheaper than settling for several thousand dollars. And that's if you don't hire a lawyer and contest that the RIAA don't have the right to get your personal info and the ISP don't have the right to hand it over as at least one person has done successfully.
I mean FFS, if people can get away with the "a virus hacked into my computer and did it" defense for criminal cases...
Good luck on taking it to the next level.
Thanks.