Misguided philosophy on "if someone sees violence, they're going to emulate it."
I love some shoot 'em up games, but guns in real life scare the hell out of me. I didn't even like cops pointing 'em at me when I'd get repeatedly called in as a prowler when I served papers as a process server...
Isn't there a country that NRA "gun nuts" love to cite as having guns all over the place and everyone having to get training and be in the militia - as well as having tons and tons less gun related accidents (or intentionals) per year than just about anyone?
That's respecting what a gun can do.
And back on the my other unrelated thread of conversation, I didn't mind the cops pointing the guns at me nearly as much as I minded the ignorant losers I was trying to serve pointing them at me...:P
Gee, isn't that what things called locks and keys are for? It is a relatively simple arrangement. Actually, all you have to do is not be an ignorant dolt and hang the key on the kitchen cupboard keyholder.
Gun locks are even better for an added safety against unauthorized use - if you're really concerned about it and are never going to be in a situation where you may have to use the weapon in a hurry. It's not that tough really...
Apparently the insurance settlement wasn't enough for them...
I sure can't see any other reason for them to file suit against the game company, especially with statements from their crackpot lawyer like, "The industry needs to cough up money so victims and their families can be compensated for their pain," Thompson said. "The shareholders need to know what their games are doing to kids and their families. They need to stop pushing adult rated products to kids. These products are deadly."
I think his first statement is really what the lawsuit is all about...
If I was a shareholder in the company that produced GTA (I'm not), I'd be congratulating them for a good product. But then I'm obviously biased based on what I just said, huh?
I dunno, I think the electronic variant could really help things. You could even start monitoring things real time and etc - if you use a secure encryption system, make the system verifiable in real time (at voting), and publish all source minus private keys.
Why is this so tough? (aside from deciding who holds the private keys?)
If only for explanation (and because I've had a few), I'll answer.
Simply put, code is only as good as it's creator (if then), and it's possible to have bugs and other goodies like malware.
The only way to know what's going on, is to... well, know what's going on. Compiled code doesn't cut it, you can hide anything in there. Source is better cause those experienced (while it still isn't everybody or even a large minority) can tell what's going on, in the interests of fairness and accuracy.
And the thing is, you have nothing to hide if you use pretty much published, unbreakable (well, okay, REALLY REALLY tough to break - like ages of universe time to break type) encryption to "sign" the code, and then make it all public.
Providing there's no funny business going on in the code or the hardware, and you're not dumb enough to put in a network connection, it should be easily doable. (it's currently doable to check both - if it's publically available)
I've been thinking this for a while, and am now just beginning to post such a wacky idea. Am I totally blind in not seeing an obvious flaw in this, and, if not, why hasn't this already been though of by people that have to be much brighter than I am?
ROM would still only be viable if it was open source, cryptographically signed, the signature AND source made public, and able to be validated at vote time.:)
Arg, this is annoying as hell. Given that quantum computers aren't as ubiquitous as usb keychain drives...
How tough would it be to whip up an existing open source OS, say, NSA's version of SELinux, rig it to run a fingerprint of the system hardware and all code running on it to a sufficiently secure encryption system, and then make the entire damn works public and open source, including the public keys? You'd have to work out an open system in which you could publically verify the system hardware keys of course, but that should be pretty trivial... MS has been doing it forever...
This way, every goddamn citizen can verifiy for themselves what's running on the computer, that it checks against what they could possibly have a copy of codewise and examine themselves, and make damn sure that the entire damn voting process is transparent as possible - assuming no shenanigans in transport or physical access...
You wouldn't even have to access the machine to record the signatures for comparison, as long as everyone knew that it was running to spec and produced identical cryto signatures on the software that was distributed. I've been thinking of something along these lines ever since I heard about all this BS, and won't trust any electronic system until it does something along these lines...
Just 'cause you're root doesn't mean you can push data, and that goes for any other user and vice versa also. It all depends on how it's setup. Very few systems are one way, usually at the cost of accuracy.
To me, all this crap over voting systems just means that the systems involved need to be networked, if only to done with open source systems that can cleanly verify their code during the course of their elections. Hrm, screw that, a network connection is just too risky, local storage and keychain disk drives are cheap.
All public keys and source code should be required to be available to the public that's supposed to be represented. What's better as far as oversight goes? Anyone can do it then...
Also, we should have some means of verifying such keys and OS signatures as we vote. Sure it may add some time to the voting process, but that's just the price of the technology involved. There are plenty of benefits to the technology involved, but only if it's done correctly and with oversight - preferably with the publicly accessible and totally transparent oversight of the entire voting population if it so chooses.
Just for others reading, TCP/IP is an inherently two way system. Most people outside of the tech sector don't know that, and even quite a few in it. Very few systems are truly one way, and the general caveat is that accuracy is sacrificed.
Dumb to respond to trolls, but ever since I found one of my company's java guys sending query data to a DB iteratively instead of in one batch instead of just talking to the DBA and having a stored procedure setup... You'd think java programmers would know enough to access a DB without adding about %40 (at least) of total load in network and connection/pipe handling, but...
Ah well, it got fixed, although we couldn't deal with large sets of data for a while...
Actually, in almost every system, there is no way to do accurate one way communications unless you're bundling in error correction along with the transmissions. And then you can only just aggregate the errors and just take the best sample transmitted. It would be interesting to see if such a mechanism exists in this system.
Just a technical twibble, and possibly an incorrect one, although I don't think so.
I'd like to hear anything relevant to the above about one way communications or findings about the data that was found on the server.:)
"In truth, they probably deserve a lot of it, but not the 100% most believe -- hardware does sometimes fail for a microsecond and then recover nonchalantly, as if nothing happened, sort of like when a cat trips or runs into a wall."
Okay, I've only had one beer so far (I just got off work), but now I just sprayed it all over my monitor. I still remember almost dying with a couple of my old roommates on seeing one of their cats do this. Was insane, the thing just kept on going, cool as can be, and then looked sooooo embarrassed as we all just fell over laughing.
Just a funny dumb story, move along folks...
Oh, so I'm not completely off topic...
Yeah, chips can flip over and recover, cause software to freeze, crash, or flip out for a moment. The problem is that most software that pushes chips to the point of depending on each and every cycle to deliver correct info in a timely manner doesn't always have the kind of fail safes that chips sometimes do built into them. Ah well...
No system is ever perfect, almost. (I hate absolutes, they so freakin' rarely exist, if ever, but that'd be an absolute.)
Not to be too trollish, but I can assure you that almost every blanket statement like that is incorrect, assurances or not.
There are plenty of past projects and no doubt some current and future ones that have been "open source" within their respective communities. They're just not widely distributed to the general public. If you have to hide things in any real secure computing environment like authentication and sensitive data behind stuff like top secret stamps or compiled code, you shouldn't be programming for it or using it in the first place.
That's what encryption is for. Anything that may be that important, far enough into the future that you have to worry about brute force attacks years and years into the future, shouldn't be committed to a networked system in the first place.
Which is why having a digitally encrypted, provably tamper-proof manner to do this that is supported by the USPS is so exciting!!!
I totally agree, this would be a very nice thing to cryptographically timestamp documents from a trusted government source.
I DO NOT like the idea of that they'd support some MS dependant protocol for doing this though! I have absolutely no idea what the licensing would require for using PGP and friends in this matter, but at least the code is open, well respected, and trusted.
And no, I don't like the idea of just using something else to wrap/timestamp some previously PGP'd crypto.
I'm sure it'd be possible with a bit of work, but that'd be an interop and application pain in the arse just get a document authenticated in one step with one cross platform app...
Nah, I've seen some of the really really dark blue stuff around, although it was years and years ago. No clue if they're currently still existing or what condition they're in, but I know they existed at one point of time. I don't remember having any problems w/ 'em.
Not much help I realize, but posting takes 10 seconds and is cheap.;)
Oh, they're not that horribly expensive. I've got a 64MB keychain drive that I got for a present. I admit that I'd have never bought one for myself cause I thought they'd be too expensive for how much I would actually use it.
Cost maybe $50, but MAN I use that thing on an almost daily basis now. USB ports are so ubiquitous that it's crazy. The person that bought me the device didn't even know they existed until she got me mine, and then saw how much use I got out of it.
Even though she's non-technical, she's got one for herself the next week and uses it quite a bit as well for school, work and what have you.
I haven't used a disk drive of any sort since they basically stabilized the USB spec in order to ensure they work on basically anything MS without a disk or disc. 'nix support is there too, at least if you can access basically anything else with USB.
Well yeah, being !sex would be a slightly self limiting prospect.;)
I thought all the Victorian stuff was mostly a christian thing. Hrm. I honestly don't know much about that time period. I'll have to look into it. Somehow. Still, that's a long time ago, something has to basically reinforce it in order to have lasted so long.
And not all groups are just pro-monogamy. Someone I know now was raised in what I'd call an insanely strict PA Dutch type of conservatism. Sex was tolerated between long married couples. There's a major difference in viewpoints out there.
That's an extreme example though, I do understand that. I just seem to keep running across the extreme examples out there I guess...
No shit! All this crap about masturbation being self-abuse and the whole Monty-Python "Every Sperm is Precious" bits are great examples.
Can we please start teaching people to stop being ashamed of their bodies? Especially as so damned few of us conform to popularly accepted norms? (Just think Brittney/Aguilera/Insert a few guy stereo types here (I don't tend to pay attention myself))
I'm mean c'mon, I'm sick of all the people out there with "issues" just cause their Mom/Dad/Aunt/Uncle whatever taught them that anything to do with the reproductive system is "bad/dirty/naughty/evil".
Fucking bible thumpers. I don't know any other group that does this...:P
(That last bit was NOT meant to be a flame. If there are any real populations that share these types of ignorant views, please enlighten me.)
Interesting. I've done my own investgating to prove it to myself and others as well. I don't need to prove anything.
You want to put something behind your words, or sit back and talk smack?
Tinker with all those apps again when I've already found what suits me best? Just for the sake of a troll that can only offer a vague counter-argument? You must be joking.
What's really going to pickle your noodle is that the MS MSN client is the best overall in almost every criterion (except for the obvious lack of multiple service support).
This alone shows your bias... There are quite a few other features that I use on an almost daily basis that the MSN client doesn't offer and can't support. Thanks for playing.
Slashdot Mirror
Misguided philosophy on "if someone sees violence, they're going to emulate it."
:P
I love some shoot 'em up games, but guns in real life scare the hell out of me. I didn't even like cops pointing 'em at me when I'd get repeatedly called in as a prowler when I served papers as a process server...
Isn't there a country that NRA "gun nuts" love to cite as having guns all over the place and everyone having to get training and be in the militia - as well as having tons and tons less gun related accidents (or intentionals) per year than just about anyone?
That's respecting what a gun can do.
And back on the my other unrelated thread of conversation, I didn't mind the cops pointing the guns at me nearly as much as I minded the ignorant losers I was trying to serve pointing them at me...
Gee, isn't that what things called locks and keys are for? It is a relatively simple arrangement. Actually, all you have to do is not be an ignorant dolt and hang the key on the kitchen cupboard keyholder.
Gun locks are even better for an added safety against unauthorized use - if you're really concerned about it and are never going to be in a situation where you may have to use the weapon in a hurry. It's not that tough really...
Tell me about it. Have you seen this guy's website? How the hell does a flake like this make national news?!
Oh yeah, entertainment, never mind...
*sighs*
Probably still living with his/her parents too. :P
Apparently the insurance settlement wasn't enough for them...
I sure can't see any other reason for them to file suit against the game company, especially with statements from their crackpot lawyer like, "The industry needs to cough up money so victims and their families can be compensated for their pain," Thompson said. "The shareholders need to know what their games are doing to kids and their families. They need to stop pushing adult rated products to kids. These products are deadly."
I think his first statement is really what the lawsuit is all about...
If I was a shareholder in the company that produced GTA (I'm not), I'd be congratulating them for a good product. But then I'm obviously biased based on what I just said, huh?
But that would make too much sense!
Sheesh...
I dunno, I think the electronic variant could really help things. You could even start monitoring things real time and etc - if you use a secure encryption system, make the system verifiable in real time (at voting), and publish all source minus private keys.
Why is this so tough? (aside from deciding who holds the private keys?)
If only for explanation (and because I've had a few), I'll answer.
Simply put, code is only as good as it's creator (if then), and it's possible to have bugs and other goodies like malware.
The only way to know what's going on, is to... well, know what's going on. Compiled code doesn't cut it, you can hide anything in there. Source is better cause those experienced (while it still isn't everybody or even a large minority) can tell what's going on, in the interests of fairness and accuracy.
And the thing is, you have nothing to hide if you use pretty much published, unbreakable (well, okay, REALLY REALLY tough to break - like ages of universe time to break type) encryption to "sign" the code, and then make it all public.
Providing there's no funny business going on in the code or the hardware, and you're not dumb enough to put in a network connection, it should be easily doable. (it's currently doable to check both - if it's publically available)
I've been thinking this for a while, and am now just beginning to post such a wacky idea. Am I totally blind in not seeing an obvious flaw in this, and, if not, why hasn't this already been though of by people that have to be much brighter than I am?
ROM would still only be viable if it was open source, cryptographically signed, the signature AND source made public, and able to be validated at vote time. :)
Arg, this is annoying as hell. Given that quantum computers aren't as ubiquitous as usb keychain drives...
How tough would it be to whip up an existing open source OS, say, NSA's version of SELinux, rig it to run a fingerprint of the system hardware and all code running on it to a sufficiently secure encryption system, and then make the entire damn works public and open source, including the public keys? You'd have to work out an open system in which you could publically verify the system hardware keys of course, but that should be pretty trivial... MS has been doing it forever...
This way, every goddamn citizen can verifiy for themselves what's running on the computer, that it checks against what they could possibly have a copy of codewise and examine themselves, and make damn sure that the entire damn voting process is transparent as possible - assuming no shenanigans in transport or physical access...
You wouldn't even have to access the machine to record the signatures for comparison, as long as everyone knew that it was running to spec and produced identical cryto signatures on the software that was distributed. I've been thinking of something along these lines ever since I heard about all this BS, and won't trust any electronic system until it does something along these lines...
Just 'cause you're root doesn't mean you can push data, and that goes for any other user and vice versa also. It all depends on how it's setup. Very few systems are one way, usually at the cost of accuracy.
To me, all this crap over voting systems just means that the systems involved need to be networked, if only to done with open source systems that can cleanly verify their code during the course of their elections. Hrm, screw that, a network connection is just too risky, local storage and keychain disk drives are cheap.
All public keys and source code should be required to be available to the public that's supposed to be represented. What's better as far as oversight goes? Anyone can do it then...
Also, we should have some means of verifying such keys and OS signatures as we vote. Sure it may add some time to the voting process, but that's just the price of the technology involved. There are plenty of benefits to the technology involved, but only if it's done correctly and with oversight - preferably with the publicly accessible and totally transparent oversight of the entire voting population if it so chooses.
It's not that tough people...
Fun troll...
Just for others reading, TCP/IP is an inherently two way system. Most people outside of the tech sector don't know that, and even quite a few in it. Very few systems are truly one way, and the general caveat is that accuracy is sacrificed.
Dumb to respond to trolls, but ever since I found one of my company's java guys sending query data to a DB iteratively instead of in one batch instead of just talking to the DBA and having a stored procedure setup... You'd think java programmers would know enough to access a DB without adding about %40 (at least) of total load in network and connection/pipe handling, but...
Ah well, it got fixed, although we couldn't deal with large sets of data for a while...
Actually, in almost every system, there is no way to do accurate one way communications unless you're bundling in error correction along with the transmissions. And then you can only just aggregate the errors and just take the best sample transmitted. It would be interesting to see if such a mechanism exists in this system.
:)
Just a technical twibble, and possibly an incorrect one, although I don't think so.
I'd like to hear anything relevant to the above about one way communications or findings about the data that was found on the server.
"In truth, they probably deserve a lot of it, but not the 100% most believe -- hardware does sometimes fail for a microsecond and then recover nonchalantly, as if nothing happened, sort of like when a cat trips or runs into a wall."
Okay, I've only had one beer so far (I just got off work), but now I just sprayed it all over my monitor. I still remember almost dying with a couple of my old roommates on seeing one of their cats do this. Was insane, the thing just kept on going, cool as can be, and then looked sooooo embarrassed as we all just fell over laughing.
Just a funny dumb story, move along folks...
Oh, so I'm not completely off topic...
Yeah, chips can flip over and recover, cause software to freeze, crash, or flip out for a moment. The problem is that most software that pushes chips to the point of depending on each and every cycle to deliver correct info in a timely manner doesn't always have the kind of fail safes that chips sometimes do built into them. Ah well...
No system is ever perfect, almost. (I hate absolutes, they so freakin' rarely exist, if ever, but that'd be an absolute.)
Not to be too trollish, but I can assure you that almost every blanket statement like that is incorrect, assurances or not.
There are plenty of past projects and no doubt some current and future ones that have been "open source" within their respective communities. They're just not widely distributed to the general public. If you have to hide things in any real secure computing environment like authentication and sensitive data behind stuff like top secret stamps or compiled code, you shouldn't be programming for it or using it in the first place.
That's what encryption is for. Anything that may be that important, far enough into the future that you have to worry about brute force attacks years and years into the future, shouldn't be committed to a networked system in the first place.
Which is why having a digitally encrypted, provably tamper-proof manner to do this that is supported by the USPS is so exciting!!!
I totally agree, this would be a very nice thing to cryptographically timestamp documents from a trusted government source.
I DO NOT like the idea of that they'd support some MS dependant protocol for doing this though! I have absolutely no idea what the licensing would require for using PGP and friends in this matter, but at least the code is open, well respected, and trusted.
And no, I don't like the idea of just using something else to wrap/timestamp some previously PGP'd crypto.
I'm sure it'd be possible with a bit of work, but that'd be an interop and application pain in the arse just get a document authenticated in one step with one cross platform app...
Nah, I've seen some of the really really dark blue stuff around, although it was years and years ago. No clue if they're currently still existing or what condition they're in, but I know they existed at one point of time. I don't remember having any problems w/ 'em.
;)
Not much help I realize, but posting takes 10 seconds and is cheap.
Too true, works for me. :)
Either that or I just emulate whatever with VMWare until I've got enough scratch for another personal machine.
Oh, they're not that horribly expensive. I've got a 64MB keychain drive that I got for a present. I admit that I'd have never bought one for myself cause I thought they'd be too expensive for how much I would actually use it.
Cost maybe $50, but MAN I use that thing on an almost daily basis now. USB ports are so ubiquitous that it's crazy. The person that bought me the device didn't even know they existed until she got me mine, and then saw how much use I got out of it.
Even though she's non-technical, she's got one for herself the next week and uses it quite a bit as well for school, work and what have you.
I haven't used a disk drive of any sort since they basically stabilized the USB spec in order to ensure they work on basically anything MS without a disk or disc. 'nix support is there too, at least if you can access basically anything else with USB.
Well yeah, being !sex would be a slightly self limiting prospect. ;)
I thought all the Victorian stuff was mostly a christian thing. Hrm. I honestly don't know much about that time period. I'll have to look into it. Somehow. Still, that's a long time ago, something has to basically reinforce it in order to have lasted so long.
And not all groups are just pro-monogamy. Someone I know now was raised in what I'd call an insanely strict PA Dutch type of conservatism. Sex was tolerated between long married couples. There's a major difference in viewpoints out there.
That's an extreme example though, I do understand that. I just seem to keep running across the extreme examples out there I guess...
Erk, yeah, you're right. I guess my thought was a bit poorly stated in that regard.
I was just wondering where the hell all this stuff came from... Religion is one obvious source, but I can't believe it's hung on so long...
Guess I should've studied sociology more, but all my damn prof wanted to actually think about it applying to was politics.
Oh shit, just realized my implication there. Yeah, I know that Python skit is satirical, it's one of my fav's. :)
No shit! All this crap about masturbation being self-abuse and the whole Monty-Python "Every Sperm is Precious" bits are great examples.
:P
Can we please start teaching people to stop being ashamed of their bodies? Especially as so damned few of us conform to popularly accepted norms? (Just think Brittney/Aguilera/Insert a few guy stereo types here (I don't tend to pay attention myself))
I'm mean c'mon, I'm sick of all the people out there with "issues" just cause their Mom/Dad/Aunt/Uncle whatever taught them that anything to do with the reproductive system is "bad/dirty/naughty/evil".
Fucking bible thumpers. I don't know any other group that does this...
(That last bit was NOT meant to be a flame. If there are any real populations that share these types of ignorant views, please enlighten me.)
Interesting. I've done my own investgating to prove it to myself and others as well. I don't need to prove anything.
You want to put something behind your words, or sit back and talk smack?
Tinker with all those apps again when I've already found what suits me best? Just for the sake of a troll that can only offer a vague counter-argument? You must be joking.
What's really going to pickle your noodle is that the MS MSN client is the best overall in almost every criterion (except for the obvious lack of multiple service support).
This alone shows your bias... There are quite a few other features that I use on an almost daily basis that the MSN client doesn't offer and can't support. Thanks for playing.
Nice troll,
;)
"Don't like it? Switch to another technology. In fact, I would encourage it."
Elitism at it's best.
Also, next time you quote someone out of context, please make sure it's not so easily traceable you freakin' idiot.