Light moves at that speed in a vacuum. Light in a fiberoptic cable moves at a different speed. But I doubt it's different enough to matter in this scenario. (Just for yuks, has anyone got the speed measurement for light in fiber?)
Well, if we're speaking in theory, they could know instantly if they have a quantum entangled radio. (also not within our current technical ability) In practice, the rate set at exacly 1400 would not be known to them for another 7ms. Thus: "Insider Trading at the Speed of Light"
You can't use quantum entanglement to transmit data faster than the speed of light.
(C) Electricity does not travel as fast in wires as light does in a vacuum.
Correct, but then light does travel fairly fast in a fibre (about 120miles per ms), and nobody uses coax for long distances anymore, certainly not traders that value every microsecond.
At 596 miles, the speed of light is indeed 3.2ms. Add in switching delays, etc. and you get closer to 5ms, and that's assuming fiber.
I don't understand what else it would be. Unless the U.S. is a network backwater, there's fibre. A dedicated fibre connecting two devices will be less than that.
But ALL of this is really beside the point. The knowledge that they were going to do it was presumably public. And even if not, and it was "insider" knowledge, it's still beside the point. Because they traded too early. 7ms advantage today is a significant advantage for HST.
You're right, obviously it was insider trading. However trading after the knowledge has become public is not illegal. When does the knowlege become public? At 14:00 in Washington, but is it the speed of the fastest propagation? The slowest?
How about this, you have a system in washington waiting for the message. As it comes out, you send a 2 bit unique number to indicate up/level/down, this is sent via shortwave. You can send 10bits per millisecond via shortwave (9600baud). That's 0.2 ms, plus the speed of radio waves in the atmosphere, plus a bit for refraction. I could see you could get it in well ahead of 7ms, probably under 4ms.
The question is, if I know something, and act on it after it's made public, when does it become public?
Caps Lock should've been a no-op placebo, like a lot of those pedestrian light-change request buttons at intersections.
Ctrl-Alt-Delete was actually a reasonable solution for the time, except maybe for certain handicapped users. Make sure the user never hits the reboot key by mistake.
CAPS LOCK IS WONDERFUL, I CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT IT
Seriously, I'm a vim user, and I mapped capslock to escape, saves a lot of reaching on my keyboard.
Caps Lock should've been a no-op placebo, like a lot of those pedestrian light-change request buttons at intersections.
Ctrl-Alt-Delete was actually a reasonable solution for the time, except maybe for certain handicapped users. Make sure the user never hits the reboot key by mistake.
I'm just glad we didn't have to do something like Ctrl + Alt + Del + F6 + Esc + (number pad) Enter for the same functionality.
Or something like \
ctrl-alt-del works no matter what keyboard you plug into what OS.
Plug a US keyboard into a machine with a UK keyboard layout and suddenly domain\user is impossible, and user@domain means typing user"domain. You can't do.\administrator either, and you can't do administrator@.
(Well you can type \ with a numeric keypad and numberlock)
Heck earlier today I had a UK keyboard in some strange german layout where / was -, and z was y or something. Fortunatly I was only typing "e single passwd root 123 123 ctrl-alt-del"
"This is an interesting situation where the speed of light may factor into the legality of their action."
I don't see what's "interesting" about it. They broke the law. Physics proves it pretty clearly.
Washington to Chicago is 596 miles via a great circle, however the Earth's curvature will reduce that, but only by about a mile. Light travels at 186 miles per second, thats 3.2ms
In the case of antipodes, you certainly see the effect Auckland to Malaga, 12392 miles (67ms) as the great circle goes, but dig a hole through the earth and you can do it in under 8,000 miles (42.5ms)
Physicists will claim that an event occuring at 1400UTC in Auckland will not have occurred until 1400+42.5ms in Malaga, however there's no way for anyone in malaga to receive data until +67ms at the earliest. If I executed the trades at +50ms, technically it's happened. At +40ms, we have arguments about whether it's happened or not (an impartial observer who is equidistant from both points will agree that the rate changed, then my trade was executed). Even at -40ms there's no way for me to impact the event.
However on a more practical scale, as we can't encode data in neutrino bursts, the only way for a trade at +60ms in Malaga would be to have pre-knowledge of what happens in Aukland. But from a physics point of view, you could theoretically know.
So you've got the following key points
135959+933ms last time I can practically* do something in malaga to affect the auckland release 135959+957.5ms last time I can do something in malaga to affect the auckland release 140000+0 event occurs in Auckland 140000+42.5ms theoretically I could know about it 140000+67ms I could know about it
I've seen that happen where some economy pax dumps their cases in the overhead. I've also seen the flight attendants tell them to take them back with them or just remove them from the cabin and have them sky checked.
I've also had one entitled woman remove someones bag because that was "her space" (even though it actually wasn't, but that's a different story).
Doesn't always happen.
If you board first you see it happening, but you've already stowed your case so "it's none of your business" If you board last, you don't have room for your case, but no way to identify the economy class bags. The flight crew decide to store your bag (with laptop etc) back at row 28.
Economy should be boarded from the back of the plane. In the rain.
Also, the "more legroom" is also a thing of the past in many places... the seat next to you will be free but the seat pitch is the same throughout the aeroplane on many short-haul flights.
Ahh yes, the new BA planes are like that. Right pain in the ass (or leg).
Adjust your work pattern so you don't fly shorthaul.
YES I DO. Because we had 1st class treatment all over the plane and we did not have cheapskates trying to stuff TWO carry ons that are too fat for the overhead in there or asking, "can you put this under your seat" No I cant take up my foot space because you are too damn cheap to check your fricking bag.
Don't fly in coach.
Free bags in the hold doesn't make any difference -- people often don't use them anyway. BA offer checked bags, but in europe I often struggle to find anywhere for my bag unless I leave the lounge early. That applies in club europe too, as economy pax walk through the "cabin" and drop their cases in the overhead on the way through.
Fortunately most of my flying is long haul, where this isn't a problem.
The most recent news I read about Internet connectivity in Afghanistan was that it was still a grass roots movement done by amatuers and not corporate yet. Many Taliban recruits (young teens) basically sending messages back to their families and other random users throughout the countryside. Have not read to many positive stories. Than again I do not pay particular interest to the state of affairs in Afghanistan. I'm sure the same story from above still rings true in some cases. Someones got their secret or buried computer. I wonder if the U.S. has taken to searching everyones computers for "encryption" or "taliban social media?" who knows.
Well I've just ordered a 10mbit fibre to be installed in one of my Kabul offices, replacing the existing sat connection. If it goes well, will order another 1 or 2.
Of course Kabul is not Afghanistan. But it's not Somalia either, computers are available, mobile phones are available, the internet is there.
Sounds great, but give it 20 years and see how it looks =)
Technology is a double edge sword. Right now its in the hands of the oppressed good villagers. When their governments and corporations or businesses get their hands on the same technology. People will wonder at the change in landscape.
An open information society is inevitable. I was a little surprised last week to receive a forwarded e-mail from Junis, who lives in a small town 35 miles southwest of Kabul. This weekend, a movie theater and video store opened up again in Kabul (rentingIndependence Day), Afghan TV cranked up, and so did the Net. Americans understand all too well that our techno-driven culture produces wonders and dangers, but it's one of the most popular social and political forces in the world. Passion for pop culture relentlessly undermined repressive governments like Poland, East Germany and the former Soviet Union. The world, it turns out, really is porous now. Technology and information will squeeze through every closed nook and crevice. The Taliban never made a dent in the attachment this Afghan programmer and his friends had for it. When his message came, the Taliban had just fled, Northern Alliance soldiers had taken over his village, and everybody rushed to barbers to cut off their beards and to nearby holes and hiding spots to dig up their Walkmen, VCRs, TVs, CD players, and -- in Junis's case -- his ancient Commodore, one of four in the village. Cafes had popped up all over, with impromptu dances and parties everywhere.
Junis's e-mail -- routed to Kabul, then Islamabad, then London -- was a reminder that there are civil liberties, and then there are civil liberties. Computers had been banned under penalty of death by the Taliban (except for the Taliban themselves), along with music and TV. Junis, a computer geek obsessed with Linux, had first e-mailed me years ago while I was writing for Hotwired. He was genial and obsessed with American culture. He loved martial arts movies, anything to do with Star Wars, and rap. He was perhaps the Taliban's prime kind of target. (Now he's furiously trying to download movies he's missed and is mesmerized by open source and Slashdot.)
"I could still see the dust of the pick-up trucks carrying the Taliban out of my village," he wrote, "and some friends and I went and dug up the boards of a chicken coop where I had hid the computer. They might have beaten or killed us if they'd found it. It was forbidden, although they used computers all of the time." He claims American commandos are skulking around dressed as Northern Alliance tribesmen.
Junis describes life under the Taliban as brutal, terrifying and profoundly boring. What the people in his town -- especially the kids -- missed most was music, posters of Indian and American movie stars (he'd kept his own decaying poster of Madonna), and American TV. Junis missed the fast-changing Web and sees, he says, that he has fallen "forever behind," and that programming is more complex than ever. But at least "Baywatch," which everyone in his town acutely missed, is back, and there's already a lot of talk about "Survivor." Junis predicts "Temptation Island" will be the number one show in Afghanistan within a month.
If the world needed another demonstration of America's most powerful weapon -- not bombs or special forces but pop culture -- it got it again this week. People all over the planet fuss about whether this healthy and democratic or corrupting and dehumanizing, but people's love for American techno-toys, TV shows, music and movies is breathaking. Watching TV pictures of tribesman on horseback, it's easy to forget that technology reached deep into this culture as well. Junis says phone service around Kabul remains spotty, but reporters, U.N. workers and foreign soldiers are wiring up. He's already made his way to some sex sites, and wishes he had a printer.
There are many computers in Afghanistan, Junis said, many in clusters in cities like Kabul and Kandahar (news reports have frequently mentioned that Bin-Laden's organization used both e-mail and encrypted files to communicate). Computer geeks are already hooking up with one anot
You should read his next book, it's about how Israeli plants high-up in the American government exercise the Sampson option by sending the United States into war with Syria in the Middle-East, only to be stopped by the leader of Russia. It's called Checkmate, available on newsstands today!
Tape didnt die at all, its right where we left it (in the server room).
Call me when HDDs come anywhere close to the price / capacity of an LTO5 cartridge (~$30/~3TB), or their archival life, or their durability; or have anything resembling a modern tape library in terms of media management.
I dont think tape is going anywhere in terms of archival storage, any time in the near future.
Slashdot Mirror
Light moves at that speed in a vacuum. Light in a fiberoptic cable moves at a different speed. But I doubt it's different enough to matter in this scenario. (Just for yuks, has anyone got the speed measurement for light in fiber?)
About 2/3c
Well, if we're speaking in theory, they could know instantly if they have a quantum entangled radio. (also not within our current technical ability) In practice, the rate set at exacly 1400 would not be known to them for another 7ms. Thus: "Insider Trading at the Speed of Light"
You can't use quantum entanglement to transmit data faster than the speed of light.
(B) As someone else mentioned, it's 180,000mps.
Yes, I missed the m. 186 miles per millisecond.
(C) Electricity does not travel as fast in wires as light does in a vacuum.
Correct, but then light does travel fairly fast in a fibre (about 120miles per ms), and nobody uses coax for long distances anymore, certainly not traders that value every microsecond.
At 596 miles, the speed of light is indeed 3.2ms. Add in switching delays, etc. and you get closer to 5ms, and that's assuming fiber.
I don't understand what else it would be. Unless the U.S. is a network backwater, there's fibre. A dedicated fibre connecting two devices will be less than that.
But ALL of this is really beside the point. The knowledge that they were going to do it was presumably public. And even if not, and it was "insider" knowledge, it's still beside the point. Because they traded too early. 7ms advantage today is a significant advantage for HST.
You're right, obviously it was insider trading. However trading after the knowledge has become public is not illegal. When does the knowlege become public? At 14:00 in Washington, but is it the speed of the fastest propagation? The slowest?
How about this, you have a system in washington waiting for the message. As it comes out, you send a 2 bit unique number to indicate up/level/down, this is sent via shortwave. You can send 10bits per millisecond via shortwave (9600baud). That's 0.2 ms, plus the speed of radio waves in the atmosphere, plus a bit for refraction. I could see you could get it in well ahead of 7ms, probably under 4ms.
The question is, if I know something, and act on it after it's made public, when does it become public?
Caps Lock should've been a no-op placebo, like a lot of those pedestrian light-change request buttons at intersections.
Ctrl-Alt-Delete was actually a reasonable solution for the time, except maybe for certain handicapped users. Make sure the user never hits the reboot key by mistake.
CAPS LOCK IS WONDERFUL, I CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT IT
Seriously, I'm a vim user, and I mapped capslock to escape, saves a lot of reaching on my keyboard.
Caps Lock should've been a no-op placebo, like a lot of those pedestrian light-change request buttons at intersections.
Ctrl-Alt-Delete was actually a reasonable solution for the time, except maybe for certain handicapped users. Make sure the user never hits the reboot key by mistake.
CAPS LOCK IS WONDERFUL, I CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT IT
I'm just glad we didn't have to do something like Ctrl + Alt + Del + F6 + Esc + (number pad) Enter for the same functionality.
Or something like \
ctrl-alt-del works no matter what keyboard you plug into what OS.
Plug a US keyboard into a machine with a UK keyboard layout and suddenly domain\user is impossible, and user@domain means typing user"domain. You can't do .\administrator either, and you can't do administrator@.
(Well you can type \ with a numeric keypad and numberlock)
Heck earlier today I had a UK keyboard in some strange german layout where / was -, and z was y or something. Fortunatly I was only typing "e single passwd root 123 123 ctrl-alt-del"
Just insert a random delay on all trades. The delay shall range from 20 minutes to 2 hours. That would make automated trading useless.
Many solutions, but why not just a 20 second delay?
What not a 0.001% fee on all trades?
"This is an interesting situation where the speed of light may factor into the legality of their action."
I don't see what's "interesting" about it. They broke the law. Physics proves it pretty clearly.
Washington to Chicago is 596 miles via a great circle, however the Earth's curvature will reduce that, but only by about a mile.
Light travels at 186 miles per second, thats 3.2ms
In the case of antipodes, you certainly see the effect
Auckland to Malaga, 12392 miles (67ms) as the great circle goes, but dig a hole through the earth and you can do it in under 8,000 miles (42.5ms)
Physicists will claim that an event occuring at 1400UTC in Auckland will not have occurred until 1400+42.5ms in Malaga, however there's no way for anyone in malaga to receive data until +67ms at the earliest. If I executed the trades at +50ms, technically it's happened. At +40ms, we have arguments about whether it's happened or not (an impartial observer who is equidistant from both points will agree that the rate changed, then my trade was executed). Even at -40ms there's no way for me to impact the event.
However on a more practical scale, as we can't encode data in neutrino bursts, the only way for a trade at +60ms in Malaga would be to have pre-knowledge of what happens in Aukland. But from a physics point of view, you could theoretically know.
So you've got the following key points
135959+933ms last time I can practically* do something in malaga to affect the auckland release
135959+957.5ms last time I can do something in malaga to affect the auckland release
140000+0 event occurs in Auckland
140000+42.5ms theoretically I could know about it
140000+67ms I could know about it
I've seen that happen where some economy pax dumps their cases in the overhead. I've also seen the flight attendants tell them to take them back with them or just remove them from the cabin and have them sky checked.
I've also had one entitled woman remove someones bag because that was "her space" (even though it actually wasn't, but that's a different story).
Doesn't always happen.
If you board first you see it happening, but you've already stowed your case so "it's none of your business"
If you board last, you don't have room for your case, but no way to identify the economy class bags. The flight crew decide to store your bag (with laptop etc) back at row 28.
Economy should be boarded from the back of the plane. In the rain.
Finally!
A use for the "airplane mode", except "I want to play and not be disturbed".
Or for the 12 hours that you're on the plane and not on approach/landing/taxiing
Also, the "more legroom" is also a thing of the past in many places... the seat next to you will be free but the seat pitch is the same throughout the aeroplane on many short-haul flights.
Ahh yes, the new BA planes are like that. Right pain in the ass (or leg).
Adjust your work pattern so you don't fly shorthaul.
YES I DO. Because we had 1st class treatment all over the plane and we did not have cheapskates trying to stuff TWO carry ons that are too fat for the overhead in there or asking, "can you put this under your seat" No I cant take up my foot space because you are too damn cheap to check your fricking bag.
Don't fly in coach.
Free bags in the hold doesn't make any difference -- people often don't use them anyway. BA offer checked bags, but in europe I often struggle to find anywhere for my bag unless I leave the lounge early. That applies in club europe too, as economy pax walk through the "cabin" and drop their cases in the overhead on the way through.
Fortunately most of my flying is long haul, where this isn't a problem.
The most recent news I read about Internet connectivity in Afghanistan was that it was still a grass roots movement done by amatuers and not corporate yet. Many Taliban recruits (young teens) basically sending messages back to their families and other random users throughout the countryside. Have not read to many positive stories. Than again I do not pay particular interest to the state of affairs in Afghanistan. I'm sure the same story from above still rings true in some cases. Someones got their secret or buried computer. I wonder if the U.S. has taken to searching everyones computers for "encryption" or "taliban social media?" who knows.
Well I've just ordered a 10mbit fibre to be installed in one of my Kabul offices, replacing the existing sat connection. If it goes well, will order another 1 or 2.
Of course Kabul is not Afghanistan. But it's not Somalia either, computers are available, mobile phones are available, the internet is there.
Sounds great, but give it 20 years and see how it looks =)
Technology is a double edge sword. Right now its in the hands of the oppressed good villagers. When their governments and corporations or businesses get their hands on the same technology. People will wonder at the change in landscape.
Well this allegedly happened 12 years ago.
Flu pandemic of 1918 was spread by the soldiers who contracted it. They were fairly mobile, more so than the typical person.
My neighbour isn't very mobile, he tends to live in a 50 mile radius.
I however have been to 5 continents in the last 3 months, so unless he doesn't take his bin out each week, he's going to be stuck.
From 12 years ago
http://www.tech.slashdot.org/story/01/11/17/204207/Message-from-Kabul
An open information society is inevitable. I was a little surprised last week to receive a forwarded e-mail from Junis, who lives in a small town 35 miles southwest of Kabul. This weekend, a movie theater and video store opened up again in Kabul (rentingIndependence Day), Afghan TV cranked up, and so did the Net. Americans understand all too well that our techno-driven culture produces wonders and dangers, but it's one of the most popular social and political forces in the world. Passion for pop culture relentlessly undermined repressive governments like Poland, East Germany and the former Soviet Union. The world, it turns out, really is porous now. Technology and information will squeeze through every closed nook and crevice. The Taliban never made a dent in the attachment this Afghan programmer and his friends had for it.
When his message came, the Taliban had just fled, Northern Alliance soldiers had taken over his village, and everybody rushed to barbers to cut off their beards and to nearby holes and hiding spots to dig up their Walkmen, VCRs, TVs, CD players, and -- in Junis's case -- his ancient Commodore, one of four in the village. Cafes had popped up all over, with impromptu dances and parties everywhere.
Junis's e-mail -- routed to Kabul, then Islamabad, then London -- was a reminder that there are civil liberties, and then there are civil liberties. Computers had been banned under penalty of death by the Taliban (except for the Taliban themselves), along with music and TV. Junis, a computer geek obsessed with Linux, had first e-mailed me years ago while I was writing for Hotwired. He was genial and obsessed with American culture. He loved martial arts movies, anything to do with Star Wars, and rap. He was perhaps the Taliban's prime kind of target. (Now he's furiously trying to download movies he's missed and is mesmerized by open source and Slashdot.)
"I could still see the dust of the pick-up trucks carrying the Taliban out of my village," he wrote, "and some friends and I went and dug up the boards of a chicken coop where I had hid the computer. They might have beaten or killed us if they'd found it. It was forbidden, although they used computers all of the time." He claims American commandos are skulking around dressed as Northern Alliance tribesmen.
Junis describes life under the Taliban as brutal, terrifying and profoundly boring. What the people in his town -- especially the kids -- missed most was music, posters of Indian and American movie stars (he'd kept his own decaying poster of Madonna), and American TV. Junis missed the fast-changing Web and sees, he says, that he has fallen "forever behind," and that programming is more complex than ever. But at least "Baywatch," which everyone in his town acutely missed, is back, and there's already a lot of talk about "Survivor." Junis predicts "Temptation Island" will be the number one show in Afghanistan within a month.
If the world needed another demonstration of America's most powerful weapon -- not bombs or special forces but pop culture -- it got it again this week. People all over the planet fuss about whether this healthy and democratic or corrupting and dehumanizing, but people's love for American techno-toys, TV shows, music and movies is breathaking. Watching TV pictures of tribesman on horseback, it's easy to forget that technology reached deep into this culture as well. Junis says phone service around Kabul remains spotty, but reporters, U.N. workers and foreign soldiers are wiring up. He's already made his way to some sex sites, and wishes he had a printer.
There are many computers in Afghanistan, Junis said, many in clusters in cities like Kabul and Kandahar (news reports have frequently mentioned that Bin-Laden's organization used both e-mail and encrypted files to communicate). Computer geeks are already hooking up with one anot
the company that *does* come up with the vaccine will make a killing.
Wouldn't that mean the vaccine doesn't work?
You should read his next book, it's about how Israeli plants high-up in the American government exercise the Sampson option by sending the United States into war with Syria in the Middle-East, only to be stopped by the leader of Russia. It's called Checkmate, available on newsstands today!
It's like the inverse of a Tom Clancy novel!
None of those other countries suck us dry, make us look bad on the world stage for backing them, or have a huge lobby to influence our government.
Sorry, but Australia has barbecues on the beach. They make us all look bad.
OT: Lebanon is indeed quite scenic - Beirut is still worth a visit after all those years of turmoil.
Just make sure you don't have an Isreali stamp on your passports kids or your trip may be cut short.
Israel have stopped stamping passports at TLV since Jan 2013. I still got stamped at Erez, not sure about other land borders.
You do realize that in practice the quoted compression rates (2:1) are not that far off, dont you.
You can in 90% of use cases fit more than 1.5TB of data on an LTO5 tape. its usually well above 2TB, and closer to 2.5TB.
Depends entirely what you're storing. My data (video) is already heavily compressed.
Feel free to compare with drives with something like drivespace installed.
Tape didnt die at all, its right where we left it (in the server room).
Call me when HDDs come anywhere close to the price / capacity of an LTO5 cartridge (~$30 /~3TB), or their archival life, or their durability; or have anything resembling a modern tape library in terms of media management.
I dont think tape is going anywhere in terms of archival storage, any time in the near future.
You're spending $15 for LTO5 tapes?
You do realise that each tape is 1.5TB don't you.
Please tell me what you think I should do to stop it. As an average citizen, I have no power over anything this government does. I am just a victim.
The NRA have been harping on about this for years. Where's your second amendment rights got you?
Soon, the only good neighborhood will be the orbiting city. The entire surface of the planet will be one big ghetto.
There are only 2 counties capable of putting someone in orbit, so I assume this city will have vodka and fortune cookies?
I don't see Syria as connected to 9-11, do you?
Whoever said it is?
9-11 was over a decade ago. Get over it.