Slashdot Mirror
NSA Shares Intel On Americans With Israel
An anonymous reader writes "The U.K.'s Guardian newspaper is reporting that the NSA shares the raw intel collected on Americans with Israel. From the article: 'Details of the intelligence-sharing agreement are laid out in a memorandum of understanding between the NSA and its Israeli counterpart that shows the U.S. government handed over intercepted communications likely to contain phone calls and emails of American citizens. The agreement places no legally binding limits on the use of the data by the Israelis. ... The deal was reached in principle in March 2009, according to the undated memorandum, which lays out the ground rules for the intelligence sharing. The five-page memorandum, termed an agreement between the U.S. and Israeli intelligence agencies "pertaining to the protection of U.S. persons," repeatedly stresses the constitutional rights of Americans to privacy and the need for Israeli intelligence staff to respect these rights. But this is undermined by the disclosure that Israel is allowed to receive "raw Sigint" – signal intelligence. The memorandum says: "Raw Sigint includes, but is not limited to, unevaluated and unminimized transcripts, gists, facsimiles, telex, voice and Digital Network Intelligence metadata and content."'
are mutually exclusive
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
I feel very betrayed.
say no to zionism
Seriously, Americans? What do you care? What do you have to hide!?
It's a complex answer. And what inwardly frustrates many who have not unlocked the question is the basic presumption which exists in the question.
I leave this to be discussed.
captcha: oppress
This is no different than our methods for torturing suspected terrorists by routing them to nations which are willing to do the dirty work for us. The NSA has determined they can tap all the calls and gather all the data but not search it without a warrant from the secret rubber stamp court. But all the data can (is?) passed to the Isreali's who can query it without even that oversight. Naturally, the NSA can ask them to do it a favor and query said data on their behalf without any warrant.
Here is my submission:
NSA is sharing personal data of americans and corporations with Israel. The secret deal places no legal limits on the use of data and only official US government communications are protected by the expectation of israeli agents removing such data as soon as it's identified. NSA insists that it complies with the rules governing privacy. There is now maybe less wonder that UNIT 8200 is driving the tech boom in Israel as they get to handle all the raw intelligence and insider information.
So this is similar to what companies do with their data on you?
Made comments critical of Israel, next thing you know his Gmail documenting a fling with what's-her-name is brought out. Coincidence? I think not!
And do they also share corresponding information with the Egyptian, Jordanian, Saudi or Lebanese government agencies?
The NSA is *spying* on us, and aiding a foreign country with the data. Seriously, what separates this from treason? The fact that they're not betraying the government, just the people?
Don't trust any concentration of power.
So we're giving the unfiltered take to a country known to run intelligence operations against the US? Do you really think the Isrealis are not going to use this to put together dossiers on every major leader in America? For that matter, what's to stop the US from getting info under Prism, that then gets passed on to Isreal with the Isrealis then passing it on to regional government opposed to the Arab Spring? So basically, Google is helping get Democratic activists shot. Way to not be evil guys.,
They made them pinky promise not to abuse that info. NO ONE breaks a pinky promise.
Sadly, it will not appear in any news outlet whatsoever.
If it appears in one, it will be surrounded by articles of snooki, why all arabs are evil, remembering the holocaust and the weekly column on why YOU are to blame for it.
Yes, the "Do it for us, please, because we are not allowed to!". Works with torture and people have speculated that intelligence services also buy fingerprints from foreign countries that require them to be taken from visitors. Why it wouldn't work with spying your own people as well? All legal, all good.
Israel States of America
Good for the Israelis. They must be doing something right.
You have it backwards. The US Capitol is moving out of London to Jerusalem.
"Right" . . . ? It's more like a "notion" now.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
sounds pretty treasonous, should they be banned from doing this, or just banned?
What the NSA, White House, Congress, and Judiciary (ie. FISA courts) are doing is un-Constitutional, meaning you can't get more illegal and deserving of maximum penalty than that. Murder is terrible and wrong, but it does not rise to the level of undermining the basis for our very society and the social contract that binds people to government and vice versa. With murder, one person dies; with undermining our system of government you get chaos, civil war, deprivation, demise of the rule of law, and masses of men, women, and children dying. Which is worse?
So what we're looking at right now, folks, and I mean all of us on the political Right and Left, is an entire government that has colluded to violate the Constitution, that is, the social contract that separates our country and society from Malthusian consequences. There can be no penalty harsh enough to punish them for what they have done. If we do not, as a People, levy that punishment on them now, immediately, then we deserve the misery of the slavery that meek acquiescence consigns us to.
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
How much negotiating did Israel have to do to get our Telexes included in this?
...considering the US was blocking CheckPoint (an Israeli company) from acquiring SourceFire back in 2005--ostensibly for national security reasons.
I don't share your sentiment but along those lines; if I were given a time machine set to take me back to 1939, and one bullet. I'd use the bullet on Allen Dulles not Adolf Hitler.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
They're sharing gists? What's a gist?
Yeah, except none of the *other* 51 states get to tell the rest what to do. Who do you think is egging on this whole "We MUST strike Syria!" mess? It sure as shit isn't the American People.
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
Israel is only one of a handful of countries (australia, new zealand, canada, and the uk) that receive this information. Makes you wonder why the article chooses to focus on Israel and ignore those other countries...
You're from the SAME hometown as myself, only minutes apart, but you are disappointing me man... wtf!
---
NSA analysts 'wilfully violated' surveillance systems, agency admits:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/24/nsa-analysts-abused-surveillance-systems
---
* THAT was what "took the cake" for me, finally!
Sir, you MAY be out to do "the right thing" & oddly enough? I suspect you are that kind of person - I honestly do!
HOWEVER: Imo @ least - You're INCORRECTLY 'projecting' YOUR VALUES onto those in your peers, AND subordinates - assuming they too are like you claim to be! THAT is where you are going wrong!
(That is NOT going to "hold true" in all cases - heck, I suspect honestly not in many of them!)
APK
P.S.=> I've been saying this to all the folks here since day #1 when this mess came out, even to my representatives in gov't. via the ACLU: "Absolute Power, Corrupts Absolutely" & THAT is the "big flaw" in what you've created! That article link above only proved it all the more, for me (wish I was wrong).
The more I see of this shit, the more ill I become, this especially - I mean, wtf do Jews in Israel have to have ANYTHING from us internally, about US (U.S. Citizenry) for? apk
CNN: "The NSA is snooping on billions of innocent foreigners..."
Public: Meh. It's for the war agains TEEEEEEEEERRRRRORISTS.
CNN "... and accidentally on some red blooded american cititzens..."
Public: WAHHHHHHHHHHH?????? SCANDAL, BROTHERS, TO THE ARMS!!!!
My country shares almost every bit of digital data with the USA, and in return we get absolutely nothing.
Maybe our prime minister gets a "I talked with Obama" t-shirt for "negotiating" this wonderful deal. (He probably would sell us out for a picture of him shaking hands with Obama.)
Yeah. We're pretty much the only nation on the planet that hasn't tried to corral and exterminate them. Must be that we're mere pawns in their global conspiracy.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
If you think that going back to 1939 would help, you are simply ignorant of the relevant history.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Somewhat everyone in US tought that the wrong thing was the NSA could be watching their private phone calls and mails, while it was ok that fully spied in everyone else in the world. Now it should be ok that Israel can access all information from US people and companies, if they don't spy on their own citizens they wouldn't be breaking theirr laws.
I would agree with Allen Dulles being a good target. And my vitriol is really just an angry outburst. I have no problem with the people. I do have a problem with the State and their government. I also have a huge problem with the American support of everything that Israel does no matter how blatantly cruel, illegal, or evil. I cannot fathom why we are in bed so closely with them. Although when you think about how evil we have become I guess we are actually pretty good bedfellows. The next world war will find that America and Israel, along with who knows what other countries has taken on the role of the Axis, and the Allies (good guys) will be someone else. Probably Germany just to go for the full roll reversal!
-- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
My reading of this MOA is very different... The MOA is repeatedly clarifying that U.S. Person information is not to be SENT by the NSA (The NSA's Responsibility to ensure it is not in the data is clearly spelled out in the MOA, if it wasn't already explicit elsewhere). It ALSO indicates that IF Israel's ISNU find's U.S. Person data they must report the finding to the NSA and destroy the information.
The MOA does not give any indication when or why raw SIGINT data would be sent to ISNU, and while it is clear that the NSA does share raw intel, it is also clear that there are cases where the raw data is "Minimized" by the NSA to remove U.S. Person information. The MOA does not guarantee ISNU any access to NSA data -- which data we share is obviously going to be controlled by other agreements and laws.
So a) we share intel with Israel ... I'm pretty sure everyone should have assumed this, and b) we have documented safeguards to restrict that data to intel on NON-U.S. Persons. Really, read the memorandum, that's all it does... every page is devoted to protecting data on U.S. Citizens.
How is this a bad thing? This document is obviously showing intent to avoid domestic spying. Good! If you want to argue that the NSA is not following its own guidelines, or failing to protect U.S. data, this is not good evidence of that.
So once again, Obama is measurably worse in respecting the constitutional rights of Americans than Bush43 ever was.
Doy, Syria is another goddamn proxy war between powers, just as Vietnam was.
I predict we'll either be at war with Iran in a year or otherwise mired in someone else's civil war AGAIN.
At least in the 60s you had "domino theory" and the evils of communism, the bogeyman being trotted out this time is chemical weapon use HAH
Yeah. We're pretty much the only nation on the planet that hasn't tried to corral and exterminate them.
That's only believable if A) you live an utterly sheltered life, where the only world history you learn about comes from Liberty University, or B) you're completely bat-shit insane.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
You forgot about Poland (tm).
... every member of congress. And they got them maybe directly from the NSA data.
simply find you who cannot criticize.
Yom Kippur is coming up.
Have gnu, will travel.
There are some people who subscribes to this opinion that we can effect change by voting. Considering the circumstances - please explain how we can vote so this does not happen...or perhaps we all voted for it?
Maybe that would be better. As it is, Israel offers absolutely nothing to this ``alliance'' other than a dumping ground for money that we apparently don't need and technology that needs to be sold to China. No one asks what, say, Alabama brings to the Union; they simply are. If we annex Israel then we'll actually have a reason to care about them.
The NSA is forwarding details of this thread to the JIDF.
How do you say "-1 Troll" in Hebrew?
Poor Americans serving the ZOG.
You should know better, this place is infested with ZOGlings.
Just think of Israel as the 4th branch of government.
FTFY.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
b) we have documented safeguards to restrict that data to intel on NON-U.S. Persons.
Funny thing, we have another set of documented safeguards, I think the fourth would the salient safeguard. Time and time again we've seen documentation showing the NSA has violated that safeguard, so why would I take it on trust that they would follow some internal memorandum. That they share intel with Israel would be understood. What is not acceptable is when there are indications they share more then they are allowed by our own laws which are in place to "protect data on U.S. Citizens".
Life is a great ride, the vehicle doesn't matter
As globalization is (mostly) perceived in business and financial spheres (big corporations becoming supranational), lots of other aspects are moving along with this process, including bad ones: spying and security apparatus becoming global, tax enforcement becoming global, propaganda apparatus is becoming global (eg. news media in Poland producing basically the same crap and lies as US media about latest Syria debacle). Opression apparatus is also becoming global. Nation states are becoming obsolete, surpassed by moneyed interests. Politicians all around the world are propably blackmailed by NSA/GCHQ/8200 aparatchics who in turn are taking orders from big business bozos. This is why we see such fiascos as latest Obama &Kerry blunder. Not Obama nor Kerry are so stupid to make such suicidal mistakes - someone is firmly holding them by the balls. Exceptions to this rule (that is, not taking orders from NSA boys) are mercilessly pounded in our "objective" media (Putin being prime example) and their countries attacked from various angles and often outright invaded (see Libya, now Syria).
Dark times ahead, folks. With democratic processes basically defunct - at least as defined in traditional terms of national states, truly global backlash and exposing those fucks like Snowden or Greenwald are the our only hope of reversing our quick slide to (new) dark ages. This is serious, folks. It's not about principles (as our media whores try to convince us), it's about survival. It's about ordinary people NOT being crushed by multinationals and NOT becoming serfs in neo-feudal age. We need a thousand Greenwalds and two thousands Snowdens.
The problem is that if your reading of the MOA is very different, you can be sure that the NSA's reading is completely different from either. Rules and guidelines need to not hold any ambiguity, otherwise they will be abused.
Israel is a democratic theocracy. Jews who equate that horrible nation with their religion are massive fools.
Read the agreement. Perfectly construed agreement - if someone read IV.B.2 you'd understand that whoever wrote the agreement fully understood the intention of the shared agreement. They are probably sharing radar traffic and cable traffic within the region. To extrapolate that to the entire globe is somewhat ludicrous and is someone trying really hard to be stupid.
US said they consider cyber-attacks to be an act of war, so I am wondering when will US Government clarify who gave them authorization to declare war on so many countries, including 'allies'.
Because what NSA has been doing for years were acts of war, according to US Government.
Probably, here is two paragraphs from the article. One has to ask how they make sure israelis destroy the government data and don't keep it for malicious use?
Notably, a much stricter rule was set for US government communications found in the raw intelligence. The Israelis were required to "destroy upon recognition" any communication "that is either to or from an official of the US government". Such communications included those of "officials of the executive branch (including the White House, cabinet departments, and independent agencies), the US House of Representatives and Senate (member and staff) and the US federal court system (including, but not limited to, the supreme court)".
It is not clear whether any communications involving members of US Congress or the federal courts have been included in the raw data provided by the NSA, nor is it clear how or why the NSA would be in possession of such communications. In 2009, however, the New York Times reported on "the agency's attempt to wiretap a member of Congress, without court approval, on an overseas trip".
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
Seems clear to me, but plenty of other people seem to be uncertain. I guess we should just be angry that the people who wrote these words didn't think of cellphones, email and Facebook when they did.
Oh, there's an explanation, but it smacks of tinfoil hattery, so it gets ignored.
Go look up '13 satanic bloodlines' or '13 bloodlines of the illuminati' and you'll see what I mean.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
I'm fairly pro-Israel. But it seems to me that .gov is accusing .snowden of being a traitor for sharing classified information. And yet, would not sharing that same information with a foreign power be a far more grievous example of treason?
I'm just confused?
Dear NSA, since you're reading this, can you explain it for us.
Your non-hysterical interpretation will not be the one that people take away from this.
Seriously, Americans? What do you care? What do you have to hide!?
I don't know yet. Personally, I don't want to find out after the fact that there was something I would have wanted hidden. Maybe I'm doing nothing wrong by today's standards, but who knows how we'll think about ourselves 10, 20, or 40 years from now?
Think of how many older people you know/knew who lived through the days when racism was still openly practiced and encouraged. Think of people who have mellowed their views about homosexuality only in the past decade. Think of how people used to smoke in their homes around their children. Or how they used to spank children that misbehaved. Or let them ride in the back of a truck with no seat belt. Or let them run around naked and even take pictures of it.
If you grew up in a rural area, you probably remember someone having hunting rifles on a gun rack in the back of their truck at school or maybe you even carried a pocketknife to school. Maybe you used to be the kind of geek that wore a trenchcoat before Columbine killed that fashion off.
So who knows what innocent thing I'm doing today that will be disapproved of later? Maybe it'll just be embarrassing. Maybe it'll be blackmail worthy. Maybe it'll even be grounds for suspecting me as some kind of future or current criminal. I mean, how many Muslims in America thought their social networks would be under heavy scrutiny before 9/11?
We shouldn't have to live in perpetual fear of the future or of the judgment of our peers. We need a personal space in which to unwind and to develop our thoughts before they're ready to take before public scrutiny. We need privacy to become ourselves and not just an empty reflection of what others expect from us.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Israel has nukes. While their development was internal to Isreael, it was allowed by Europe and the USA.
If Israel has to nuke an Arab country to keep them from distrupting your precious oil supply, nobody will nuke the USA. Retaliation, nuclear, chemical or otherwise, will fall on Israel. In exchange for the USA's continued support, Israel takes that risk.
So they get perks. Unofficial, unknown, unspoken perks for keeping the uneasy peace in the Middle East and the oil flowing. One of these is information - and yes, some in the tech field are getting screwed by this arrangment.
As an entertaining aside, you can bet that when Arab oil is no longer a significant factor in the world energy picture, Israel will be left to twist in the wind while the region tears itself apart. When that happens, expect a flood of Israeli immigrants.
Cheers!
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
I want some fucking heads to roll damnit!!
blindly antisocialist = antisocial
The reason why Israel is supported is pretty obvious: it's a stable and well guarded military base in a globally sensitive region. It's also a testbed for new tactics to use against unruly populations (handy if the Occupy movement ever gets out of hand) and for new military hardware - no(t many) questions asked.
All in all the military/industrial complex is getting your money's worth out of supporting Israel.
Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
During the Cold War, Isreal gave the Soviet Union intelligence it collected on the US. And we still trust them?
The problem is that each spy agency is only allowed to spy on foreigners. The obvious workaround is for each spy agency to exchange information and outsource the spying to another country.
Yeah, I see what you mean: the old "communists and jews eating our babies" conspiracy again - aka the Blood libel. It's not an explanation, it's a rambling collection of bullshit that traces right back to the Tsarist Ochrana and even darker times before that.
Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
I for one welcome our Zionist overlords.
Right, I'm sure we can trust the NSA to work diligently to make sure no data on US citizens is accidentally sent over, and I'm sure ISNU will report that immediately. That's obviously their primary concern here, and we can trust them to stick to the law.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
The reason why Israel is supported is pretty obvious: it's a stable and well guarded military base in a globally sensitive region. It's also a testbed for new tactics to use against unruly populations (handy if the Occupy movement ever gets out of hand) and for new military hardware - no(t many) questions asked.
All in all the military/industrial complex is getting your money's worth out of supporting Israel.
I am so sad.
I don't know what to say anymore.
Rational discourse regarding Israel is not possible.
All the animals are equal, but some are more equal than others. For US citizens, Israel is to redact. For US politicians, they need to destroy on recognition.
I thought the way that it worked was Israeli monitoring devices were placed on our networks with the information gathered and then sold to NSA. The reason for that was so that the NSA could say "We don't capture data on American networks".
US America? EPIC FAIL!
Systemic - therefore non-recoverable. It's all downhill from here, and has been since about '72-'78. Now, it's "all over, 'cept the shouting".
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Spying on American citizens is outside the NSA's charter and violates the constitution. Spying on American citizens for a foreign power seems like treason.
Seriously, if the The enemy of my enemy is my friend was ever truer...
Isreal shares with Russia, Germany, Romania and China.
And anyone else with money.
In fact *everyone* has your information EXCEPT YOU.
Land of the free (snicker)
I think it's time for torches and pitchforks, we the people are being royally screwed by our amoral treasonous government.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
An act of war is not a declaration of war, nor does it imply or require a declaration of war.
Repetition does not transform a lie into the truth. - FDR
one possible factor, apart from omg-jooz-own-amerika, is that if you want experts in arabic, urdu, persian etc language and culture, Israel has a surplus of them, with the plus that they are probably quite commited to the cause.
It's buried in the tech section of the Washington Post, there's no trace of this on the NY Times...
In every full-scale war between Israeli forces and the best armies of the Arab world, Israeli kicked their asses decisively. If the Arab nations attack Israel,they know they'll get their ass handed to them again by a modern army that is qualitatively better than its adversaries in training, equipment, and doctrine.
At least in the Federal elections. So is protesting. State nullification via the tenth ammendment is an effective response to Federal overreach. see "marijuana" and "national speed-limit"
"The ability to delude yourself may be an important survival tool" - Jane Wagner -
Yeah, I see what you mean: the old "communists and jews eating our babies" conspiracy again - aka the Blood libel. It's not an explanation, it's a rambling collection of bullshit that traces right back to the Tsarist Ochrana and even darker times before that.
Sounds like something someone who doesn't know how to read between the lines would say.
Yea, 'jews eating babies' is a bit far fetched. A long standing dynasty of self-appointed, old-blood Royals running the show from behind a dark curtain, not so much. Shit, we can't even get details on what goes on behind closed doors during a G20 summit.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
".egassem taht rehpiced ot skeew ASN eht ekat ot gniog si ti ,nam toohS" - by Anonymous Coward ANOTHER "ne'er-do-well" /. OFF-TOPIC TROLL on Wednesday September 11, 2013 @04:11PM (#44822823)
"???"
Ahem: Could we get a translation of that off-topic "troll-speak/trolllanguage" of yours, please?
---
* Clue/New NEWS/NewsFlash, Mr. Troll: It wasn't meant to be some encrypted message, & it's not, so - get your "Hooked on Phonics" lessons out + study them, again (you need it, due to your blatant illiteracy)...
APK
P.S.=> "ReVeRsE-PsYcHoLoGy", for trolls - Courtesy of this code by "yours truly" (in less than 1 second flat):
---
#TrollTalkComReversePsychologyKiller.py (Ver #2 by APK)
def reverse(s):
try:
trollstring = ""
for apksays in s:
trollstring = apksays + trollstring
except:
print("error/abend in reverse function")
return trollstring
s = ""
print reverse(s)
try:
s = "Insert whatever 'trollspeak/trolllanguage' gibberish occurs here..."
s = reverse(s)
print(s)
except Exception as e:
print(e)
---
... apk
Yeah. We're pretty much the only nation on the planet that hasn't tried to corral and exterminate them.
"Pretty much the only nation on earth that hasn't..." Holy fuck, what are you smoking? The vast (really vast, super vast, statistically vast, VAST, I SAY) number of countries in the world did not fry jews. Let's look at it another way - The vast (really vast...etc., etc.) number of PEOPLE in the world did not fry jews.
Are you a whiney jew or what? 'Cause that's just the thing they want the whole world to think. And feel a bit quilty about. Forever.
THIS IS REVOLTING !!! the data of american citizens handed over to foreign, sometimes hostile country IS A SCANDAL OF EPIC PROPORTIONS...
Google only indexed unsecured wifi hotspots, they didn't send any data through them. Street view vehicles take terabytes worth of pictures that all have to be organized and processed (blur license plates, etc) in bulk later. Sending that much data through even the fastest of wifi hotspots would just be infeasible.
Come on Dept. of Justice, pull your heads out and do your jobs.
That's what God wants. It says it in the Bible that Jews are His Chosen People. We can believe the Bible because Jews wrote it and who can doubt God's Chosen People but those who are working for Satan or Nazis?
Seastead this.
but fuck America and also fuck Israel.
What do you have to hide!?
Thank-you for the discussion opener.
When I try to boil it down to a short response, I come up with:
"I have my whole life to hide! -From lunatics who might persecute me because of their crazy beliefs."
There are all kinds of things which are or which are verging on becoming criminal activities according to the law which I might want to do or discuss doing anyway, including:
-Sexual freedom beyond the missionary position with the opposite sex
-Home schooling
-Organic farming
-Growing food on your land
-Growing/using Marijuana
-File sharing
-Photocopying a book
-Performing "Happy Birthday"
-Avoiding vaccination
-Buying a pressure cooker
-Making your own fireworks/firearms
-Having friends who are Muslim
-BEING Muslim
-Ignoring building codes when renovating
-Building a house not connected to the power grid
-Getting an abortion
-THINKING about getting an abortion
-Playing violent video games
-Smoking/Growing tobacco
-Owning Cuban cigars
-Growing/Using alternative medicines
-Raising chickens
-Sharing unpasteurized milk/milk products
-Sharing food with the homeless
-Being homeless
-Disabling the black box in your car
-Not recycling
-Not believing in AGW
-Criticizing Israel
-Owning a gun
-Owning a green laser pointer
-Renting out a room in your house
-Social activism
-Staying out past Curfew
-Not wearing a seatbelt
-Having a bon fire in your backyard
-Selling things without a business license
-Making your own alcoholic beverages
-Photography/Videography (of public sites, police, corporate buildings, etc.).
And as the Republicans learned after targeted IRS audits,
-Being a Republican.
And finally...
-Any number of stupid, embarrassing things I did when I was a teenager that I'd rather not have some spook use as leverage when I'm at a critical juncture in my career. (Anybody who hasn't done something stupid or embarrassing when they were a teenager is in the extreme minority and is likely to be a bitter and boring person today who is apt to ask questions like, "What do you have to hide?" because they are angry with everybody else for not being cowardly losers like themselves.)
That's a very short list, and even if I decide to talk openly about exploring even one or two of them, I would certainly not want the fact recorded forever by some government agency. Who knows who will be in power tomorrow? Who knows what else will be added to that list? (Seriously, who foresaw the pressure cooker thing?)
On a slightly different theme, "I have my whole life to hide! -From corporations who want to target me."
Such examples include:
-Artificially raising prices or limiting choices based on my zip code
-Artificially raising prices or limiting choices based on my prior preferences
-Artificially raising prices or limiting choices based on need/usage cycles
-Calling me at home
-Knowing the names and ages of my kids, where they go to school and what their medical histories are so they can be specifically marketed at
-Identifying and Targeting activists
-Identifying and Targeting addicts
-Identifying and Targeting the infirm
-Identifying and Targeting preferred competing services
-Identifying and Targeting cheap alternatives, (like spring water, DIY resources, farm markets, herbal medicines).
Again, that's the short and simple list.
Knowledge is Power, and the people who have the knowledge are dicks who are exactly the sort of people to use it to hurt/limit/manipulate you.
We live in a day and age where private prisons make profit from every incarceration.
Please take your racism elsewhere.
this just keeps getting better
please continue...
Yeah. We're pretty much the only nation on the planet that hasn't tried to corral and exterminate them. Must be that we're mere pawns in their global conspiracy.
No, you're just one of the countries that turned away Jewish refugees from Germany before the concentration camps were opened. Don't be too offended - my country did the same. I'm ashamed, as well.
Sure I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
This is certainly no worse than the intelligence sharing and inter-operability arrangements between the 'five eyes' of the Anglosphere. Of course, as a member of this club, I don't care that much about the ancient blood feuds of the Middle East - provided these conflicts don't spill over into my reality, and the energy continues to flow.
That is partly true. Check Wikipedia, the source of all, often accurate information. According to one source, he passed classifed information to South Africa, attempted to sell classified data to Pakistan, and stole classified data on China which his wife used in her business. He even gave classified data to, gasp!, Australia!
One would necessarily have to squint a bit at the Guardian regarding any story having to do with Israel. The Guardian is publicly and proudly the most anti Israeli newspaper printed in English today and, they have often been caught in a lie and making up stories before.
NSA="No Strings Attached"
I wouldn't be surprised if this is exactly how they get around needing a warrant to peruse the data.
... documented safeguards to restrict that data to intel on NON-U.S. Persons.
Non-US persons account for 96% of the world's population. Maybe look at it from the perspective of one of those people?
The fact you're clearly insane makes me feel better about disagreeing with your positions in other threads. Thanks for that.
You are not your country, nor are you your country's government. You are not the people of your country in the past, present, or future. You are you. You have no logical reason to be ashamed of the actions of others, but to be merely disappointed with any culture or society which fosters those actions and the beliefs which drive them. By the same token you should not feel pride in the actions of those of your country, in the past or present, as you are not them and played no part. That is the only logically sustainable outlook to have when thinking of one's own relation to their country or, indeed, the countries of others. Everything else is, at one level or another, at best hypocritical and at worst illogical, though usually an unhealthy mix of the two. Patriotism and nationalism are powerful tools for the weak, but in the hands of the strong they are deadly weapons which tend to ensure they are used as such.
The fact that you're such a brainless pot-smoker that you felt compelled to stick "420" in your handle makes me feel better about ignoring pretty much everything you say.
Go eat some more Doritos, burnout.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Now I wonder if the original post wasn't an NSA plant. After the information comes out, NSA just posts it in places like Slashdot, waits for the anti-semitic rants to start and then says that everyone who opposes this is anti-semitic.
And in general, I agree. Especially about things that happened before I was born or my parents were old enough to do anything about them. But the other half of having a healthy sense of nationalism is doing what you can to move your country in the direction you want it to go. That's why I've written letters to politicians, and feel a certain amount of shame to belong to a group, no matter how big it was, that would do such a thing. I don't stay up at night because of it, but I want to keep these actions alive in my thoughts, so I can beware of having some group I'm a part of do something that horrible again.
Sure I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
If i weren't afraid of logging in and modding this up, I would. The things that happen behind closed-doors are NOTHING like what the media is saying.