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Bill Gates Acknowledges Ctrl+Alt+Del Was a Mistake
theodp writes "If he'd had his druthers, Bill Gates told a Harvard audience, Ctrl+Alt+Del would never have seen the light of day. However, an IBM keyboard designer didn't want to give Microsoft a single button to start things up, and thus the iconic three-finger-salute was born."
My keyboard has two shift keys. He should have used one of those.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Even bill gates does not approve of Ctrl+Alt+Del
if we start thinking in what was wrong building a computer with 25 years technology then we would lost count of the mistakes. If it weren't for the backing of IBM, it would been an instant market failure.
Once they got the "Windows Key", why did they continue using the Ctrl + Alt + Delete?
Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
Was it the same IBM keyboard designer that came up with the Windows and menu keys? They seem to "start" more things than CTRL+ALT+DEL.
Was a mistake... not ctrl alt del.
But why did Mr. Gates's company continue to use control + alt + delete for windows login screens?
Seems like something that would only look like a mistake to an Apple user who probably wants something more "elegant" like swipe-to-unlock. For the reason specified, it was a good decision (to use a low-level command to prevent password-stealing dupe login screens). I just think it's odd that they took login security so seriously and then fucked up so badly on all other parts of the OS.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
But Ctrl+Alt+Del is good! Now I admit it may be just force of habit, but I really like that key combination. Ctrl+Shift+Esc is one I can't stand and I really wish CAD was still used to open Task Manager on Win7, instead of that security center nonsense.
I loved the power key on the old Apple ADB keyboards. I didn't enjoy the operating system back then, but I remember wishing PC's had such a key.
Who cares if IBM's keyboard didn't "give them" a single key? Pick one that's essentially unused on a personal computer. SysRq, Scroll Lock, Pause/Break? I don't care. Actually, I don't care that they sued Ctrl-Alt-Del. I certainly never dropped a user manual on my keyboard that hit those three keys accidentally. I'm sure everyone here has a list of far worse design mistakes in Windows more serious than: "Why does the old reset pattern let me log in?" First one that comes to my find is "Why do I click 'Start' to stop?"
I am not a crackpot.
To use Ctrl-Alt-Del to log in. IF there was a program that appeared to be the login screen, without using Ctrl-Alt-Del, it would have recorded your username/password. However, by using Ctrl-Alt-Del would have shown the malicious program.
That was back when programmers were also engineers, and they realized the risk of accidentally hitting a single key and wiping the contents of RAM without saving. A complex key combination avoids accidents. I really don't see a problem with it. And considering that (most) keyboards still haven't evolved a "reboot" key, there doesn't seem to be great demand. Hell even the "Windows Start" key is probably the least utilized key on my keyboard, only good to tab me out of FPS games by accident and get me killed when I meant to hit Ctrl or Alt.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
that Bill Gates wouldn't approve of emacs either.
- only web search engine would be Bing and only available on Metro
- your cell phone would only work with skype
- web pages would only work with IE
- Internet would run NetBIOS, not TCP/IP
- all web servers would need to have a Xenix license
- web sites would be programmed in Visual Basic
- all crops would be grown with Monsanto seeds
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A single button that, if hit, would reboot the system???? That's is the stupidest shit I've ever heard. If you hit it by accident, goodbye to your work. Remember that when you hit CTRL-ALT-DEL in DOS, it didn't even give you a prompt to shut down, it just rebooted. Who in their right mind would want that in a single key??
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
In my book that is the one thing they got right. It is a cumbersome combination as it should be since you do not want to reboot your computer by accident.
It still irks me how easy is to accidentally shutdown your computer in windows when all you are trying to do is putting it to sleep through the menu.
In programming languages this is called "syntactic salt" and it is used to implement powerful primitives that should not be used lightly.
Ctrl-Alt-Del was a thing *before* Windows. Microsoft made use of it because it was there. It made sense to use it as a login trigger by intercepting its function. Especially since doing so put the reboot function under the control of the OS, not the user.
Yes, I've only read the summary, not the article itself, but I suggest you read this in conjunction with it, or afterwards:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ctrl_alt_del
... But I only have two middle fingers!
I have kids. At times, they've randomly walked up to the keyboard and pressed keys. That's how I found out that one of my keyboards had a "moon" key, and that it magically shut down my computer - no prompting needed. And the number of times I've intentionally pressed the "Windows" key? Probably once a year.
Why on earth would you want a key on your keyboard to be a non maskable interrupt? Heaven forbid you mistype, or someone comes walking by and hits it. I'm going to have to side with IBM on this one. Also, what does C.A.D. have to do with starting a computer? It was only added to the Windows startup processes as a way to trick malicious programs into terminating.
I'm just glad we didn't have to do something like Ctrl + Alt + Del + F6 + Esc + (number pad) Enter for the same functionality.
Mainly because it was a selection of keys that could be useful to another program but now it can't use it.
Using something odd like shift + capslock + some other key would have been better. Capslock doesn't suffer from rollover issues with other keys. (I've never came across it anyway and I use caps+keys for various contextual macros for programs)
The idea itself is not bad though. A system-level interrupt event like it is a very useful thing for doing various things, such as locking a UI, quick soft restart, system manager, whatever.
"People are aware that Windows has bad security but they are underestimating the problem because they are thinking about third parties.
What about security against Microsoft?
Every non-free program is a 'just trust me program'. 'Trust me, we're a big corporation. Big corporations would never mistreat anybody, would we?' Of course they would! They do all the time, that's what they are known for. So basically you mustn't trust a non free programme."
"There are three kinds: those that spy on the user, those that restrict the user, and back doors. Windows has all three. Microsoft can install software changes without asking permission. Flash Player has malicious features, as do most mobile phones."
"Digital handcuffs are the most common malicious features. They restrict what you can do with the data in your own computer. Apple certainly has the digital handcuffs that are the tightest in history. The i-things, well, people found two spy features and Apple says it removed them and there might be more""
From:
Richard Stallman: 'Apple has tightest digital handcuffs in history'
www.newint.org/features/web-exclusive/2012/12/05/richard-stallman-interview/
I don't understand the problem. Ctrl+Alt+Del originally meant "reboot". That's obviously not something you want to do accidentally. If there's a problem it is in using the three-finger-salute for things other than reboot.
Proverbs 21:19
The article isn't referring to the ctrl-alt-del reboot function. They are referring to the ctrl-alt-del login function (of Windows NT). The question is whether the submitter was honestly that careless, or did he deliberately put up a strawman to lure us in?
Caps Lock should've been a no-op placebo, like a lot of those pedestrian light-change request buttons at intersections.
Ctrl-Alt-Delete was actually a reasonable solution for the time, except maybe for certain handicapped users. Make sure the user never hits the reboot key by mistake.
I believe Bill Gates is talking about using Ctrl-Alt-Del as a Secure Attention Key (SAK), and is not referring to the function it had in DOS, i.e. reboot the whole machine.
Either Billy has a bad memory or the summary is wrong (possible both).
On older PCs (under DOS) CTRL-ALT-DEL did a cold start (reboot). Similar to Apple ]['s ctrl-RESET combination.
The reset key on an old Apple was in the upper right corner. I forgot how Suns and HPs etc. used to do this, but basically all Unix Systems (that means the Hardware of Unix Vendors, as they where Hardware vendors selling their hardware with their own Unix) had an at least two fingers "reboot salute".
The keys where put far away from each other by intention. So you need both hands to press them and wont trigger them by accident.
IIRC the old keyboards hat a special RESET line causing an hardware interrupt when the "reset combination" was hit on the keyboard. (There was no dialog popping up saying: oh, what do you want to do?)
So the talk/claim about "ctrl-alt DEL" in the article can only refer to Windows. However, why would windows break with the DOS tradition?
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
IBM Keyboards have tons of useless keys. If he had wanted a single key alternative for Ctrl-Alt-Del, SysReq, Break, or Pause would have been the obvious choices. In this instance, sanity seems to have prevailed, and the reboot key combination was something hard and obscure to type.
If you're going to rewrite history, try to pick a better lie. Ballmer gave it a good try with "we forgot about mobile and are late to the party" (reality: "we almost had mobile in the bag and then lost it through my incompetence").
That might eject it too, but Mac keyboards have an Eject key.
I used to work for a small company where we had 10 Linux servers and 1 windows NT box hooked to a Keyboard Video Mouse (KVM) switch. My boss was using the windows server for Webtrends.
He would never check which server he was on before pressing ctrl-alt-del to login so he would reboot the Linux servers at random causing customers to phone us because they were offline.
Gladly enough, ctrl-alt-del isn't as hardcoded in Linux that it is in Windows. All I had to do is modify the init scripts to ignore ctrl-alt-del so that solved our problem.
Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
However, an IBM keyboard designer didn't want to give Microsoft a single button to start things up, and thus the iconic three-finger-salute was born."
I always had to use ctrl-alt-delete to shut things down, never to start them up. Besides, why blame IBM? They weren't the ones who assigned anything to ctr-alt-delete. Microsoft could have just as easily used F10 or ctrl-esc or any other key stroke.
It was a spoof protection measure with the advent of Windows NT.... The security minded OS from Microsoft. ;-)
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I mean considering some of the ridiculous key-combos required on a Mac over the years both before and during OS startup, I bless Microsoft for only requiring 3 fingers to get things moving.
I think at one time I had to use both hands and my tongue in order to get my Mac out of a retarded state, and it didn't even thank me afterwards.
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
When you press Ctrl+Alt+Del on your computer, you know that the OS is the one that receives it so you know that the login screen before you was generated by the OS and not some malware that's sitting in userland.
When you 'simulate' it from a remote session, you lose that guarantee. Any malware could intercept the simulated Ctrl+Alt+Del and show you what looks like the OS login screen.
Mmmm.. Donuts
He wanted a new key, not to re-purpose an old key. SysReq itself exists for the same reason.
Pause/Break actually does have uses itself, you may not utilize them, but others do. Or say they do, and would whine like crazy if you took it away from them.
This post incorrectly recounts the fundamental point of the referenced article. Read your own article before posting in the future!
The article points out that the mistake was using CTRL-ALT-DEL as a way to login, not to reboot! Kudos to Bill Gates for admitting this huge design flaw. Only one of the many reasons I don't like Windows.
My keyboard has two shift keys. He should have used one of those.
Where did you learn to type? Any typing class will teach you that you're supposed to use each shift key for the hand opposite to the hand which types the letter/number. Using one shift key all the time (usually the left) just puts that hand into needlessly slow and awkward claw positions.
Theoretically, you're supposed to do the same with the Ctrl & Alt keys, but keyboard manufacturers refuse to put those in a consistent, pinky-accessible spot on the right side. (Laptop makers, I'm talking about you.) That's probably one of the biggest reasons that one-handed shifting has become so endemic. If you want a redundant set of keys, I'd point the finger at those first.
(P.S. I also was taught to actually use the caps lock key when typing in caps, and it is a big pinky-saver when writing C macros.)
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
"However, an IBM keyboard designer didn't want to give Microsoft a single button to start things up, and thus the iconic three-finger-salute was born." Start things up?! I think he meant to stop buggy Microsoft's software before it crashes the whole buggy operating system of Microsoft. And there was a button designed for similar operation: Reset on the PC box. Used more often than all keyboard keys all together.
I recall when IBM introduced the IBM AT Keyboard (84-key keyboard, with function keys down the left hand side where &deity. intended) they also introduced the 'System Request' key, intended as a non-maskable attention grabbing key. I don't think that was ever used either - though it did propagate into the 101/102 key keyboards later. Those of us who remember teletypes will recall the attention / break key as well - which never worked, trying to get attention on a round-robin timeshare system was always a pain - you kept getting timed out if you were a slow typist, and had to wait your turn ..
the one thing they got right.
This is much too harsh, they got several other things right:
- "notepad.exe" was a great name for the text editor
- the animations of files being moved and deleted in Windows 95 were pretty good
- right-clicking on a disk and selecting eject - much more intuitive than dragging it to the trash can
- Wingdings font
- XP was actually pretty stable and secure after the first 8 years of burn-in
- defragmentation tool
I had a keyboard once with a dedicated start/shutdown key.
After shutting down my system a few times accidentally I threw that keyboard away.
Seems like a bad design. Macs had a power key for ages on their keyboard, but it pulled up a shutdown prompt instead of killing the whole machine instantly. (You could hold it down for 3 seconds for a force power down, IIRC.) It was also far above the keys and hard to accidentally hit on the machines I remember. This is the one I had on my Performa 5200, and this was the one my old iMac had. (You can see the power key on the latter above the divide between the letter and numeric keypad sections.)
What was the keyboard you used like, and what OS was it for?
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
I think cntl+alt+del is fine for either doing a shutdown or restart (it that's what you really want to do, it should not be a single keystroke). HAL9000 required a physical key and multiple apertures to shut it down, http://mfwright.com/2001exp.html
Since most can't seem to be bothered to read the TFA, you're all a bit confused.
Gates isn't opposed to the three finger salute for rebooting, he's decrying M$ use of Ctrl-Alt-Delete to LOGIN TO WINDOWS.
It would be nice if the title represented the story accurately, but this is slashdot.
The summary doesn't give the real reason -- it's in TFA. As ctl-alt-del was a low level interrupt on the PC to restart -- getting out of a bluescreen or a hung desktop -- and given that it was absurdly easy to write a trojan that mimicked the login screen, it became necessary to force users to use ctl-alt-del to log in to be able to tell the difference between the real login process and a fake one. There really wasn't a better choice. People had already used the key combination for years to unjam windows, and it was an easy way to enforce a needed security measure.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
It makes perfect sense for it to be using something that a user's unprivileged application is incapable of intercepting and acting upon. Computers are so tiny and cheap these days, that I think a lot kids forget that we really did used to have multi-user systems (instead of everyone having their own smartphone). And in multi-user systems, users really DO write fake-login programs, in order to trick other users into giving up their passwords. Do you really think a typical teenage programmer can't write an XDM-lookalike program to trick you? MS was thinking of that, at the time, and they came up with a reasonably good countermeasure to the problem.
Don't like it? Ok. I'll admit it's ugly. But what's your better (or even just-as-good) idea? AFAICT rival platforms address the problem by ignoring it. And as we're kind of drifting into a single-user systems, maybe that even makes sense, but I'm not sure it made sense to ignore the problem ten or twenty years ago.
Bloody hell, there are/were so many reasons to either hate or mock Microsoft. And this? This is like going to job interview and being asked to list your faults. "I'm afraid I work too hard, sometimes to the detriment of my personal life. And I sometimes lose sight of my employer's desire to serve the community, instead getting bogged down with greedy concerns about increasing company revenue." Oh, Bill, you're so humble to admit this "mistake."
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Dave is the IBM engineer that "invented" alt-ctrl-del, was even a Jeopardy answer once.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bradley_%28engineer%29
However, an IBM keyboard designer didn't want to give Microsoft a single button to start things up
So putting the windows key on keyboards everywhere was just a kindergarden-level revenge act? Did they send IBM a postcard with the words "so there!" ?
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Been there done that. DOS Fullscreen windows, especially on 9x didn't like being switched out of while in graphics mode (I assume because they had direct hardware access to the videocard and no provisions to reinitialize unless the console had reverted to text mode).
Win9x in general had that problem with a lot of games though. ALT-TABing at the wrong time could cause the system to lock up, or the display to freeze, or any number of other issues. The only benefit was it helped ingrain the 'reboot frequently' mantra into the majority of users, which honestly is the only reason systems get through offline portions of updates nowadays anyhow (You'll note Microsoft has had to go back to forcibly rebooting the computer to complete system updates again in Windows 6+ OS versions.
Bill Gates: If I had a nickel for every time someone had to hit Ctrl-Alt-Delete - I'd be a Billionaire
Bill Gates: Oh Yeah, I am....
Bill Gates saying "Ctrl+Alt+Del" was a mistake is the computing equivalent of when George W. Bush said having the "Mission Accomplished" banner when he spoke right after the invasion of Iraq...
Those are not mistakes.
Windows ME. Lying about WMD.
Those are mistakes.
These leaders are total idiots, both of them, exemplifying the same level of analytical thought.
Thank you Dave Raggett
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Ctrl+Alt+Del - is the worst mistake in computer history. Anyone who have been programming in C or Assembly on MS-DOS has experienced more than not that it wasn't doing crap and since the logic from the higher beings stated that you don't need a reset button because you have... Ctrl+Alt+Del... - it meant that power cycling was the only way to revive the computer. So count how many power cycles that occurred in a day... Bad programmer you think - well, considering that this was the 80's and there were few good tools for MS-DOS at the time that was how it was. At least it was good in the way that you did learn to really check your code by hand to avoid a crash - and develop certain coding habits.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
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3 finger salute was a mistake to be used for login on Windows NT.
Looking back..i kinda liked it..:-)
Well, even the Amazon Spying Lens snuck into Ubuntu even though the OS is mostly based on free software.
Perhaps you haven't experienced microsoft products?
Too bad they didn't hold onto some of the other ctrl-alt sequences that tripped low-level interrupts. Ctrl-Alt-Plus and -Minus used to toggle between regular and "turbo" mode on my old XT but no computer capable of running NT or later would have bothered with a turbo mode anymore.
The three finger salute would come in handy on the iMac...at least until they rewrite Apple Mail from the ground up. I've finally decided to stomach the Mac version of Outlook, when I can, and Windows version under Parallels, when I must. Mail app stinks! Fix it, Cook!!!
...that Mr Gates really didn't understand engineering, and the danger of having "reboot the whole machine" on one, easily-accidentally-struck key.
-Styopa
In my book that is the one thing they got right. It is a cumbersome combination as it should be since you do not want to reboot your computer by accident.
For users of the original Apple ][, which had a single-finger "reset" key, this was a real-world concern since it was hard-wired to send a reset signal and drop you into the monitor rom shell. Of course the reset key was sadly positioned right above the return key which made it really easy to hit accidentally at the end of every line you typed.
In later revisions of Apple ][ computers, I believe they put a thick rubber ring washer inside the key which required you to really push down to squish the washer make mechanical/electrical contact (I think that was probably inspired by a "hard-hack" made by many folks who did this one too many times). Finally, when they got to the Apple ][+, they changed to a CTRL-RESET two-finger reset (of course the newer auto-start ROM-monitor and the OS's got better at trapping/recovering the reset by then, so it was less important).
By then the IBM-PC was out and perhaps they avoided this pitfall by having a 3-finger reset from the get-go...
They told Steve Jobs they couldn't offer a mouse at a reasonable price, so he made one.
Given the blecherous designs that Dos and Windows provided us over the years, I'm not too impressed with Bill Gates' keen sense of design. Fundamentally, he's been so far removed from doing anything resembling design or development for so long, his opinion on this holds little if any weight in circles that are interested in human factors and computer architecture.
This should go in the "Why is this here (on /. )?" file.
Right hand or left hand I would certainly know which finger to use - the single finger salute.
Ahh, here's the old Slashdot post on that one.
He probably wouldn't like Emacs then.......
What about C:, Bill? You gonna blame IBM for that one, too?
yes, I agree...actually I don't see anything wrong with CTL+ALT+DEL at all just for the reason you stated
Gate's answer to the question is silly and insulting kind of...that's my point...if Gates had said, in answer to the question:
>"Zune" .NET
>"Making Internet Explorer locked down"
>something about
>"nurturing our developers"
answer like that are plausible...
but like W., Gates is just a sort of bumbling figurehead...my greater point is that Gates's advice on these matters is wholly unuseful b/c he doesn't really have experience as a 'tech innovator' or 'computing pioneer'
Gates knows how to fend off internal competition for his job, arrange divisions against each other in unhealthy competition, strategically bottleneck primary functions to coerce users into using all of your company's products, go decades without paying shareholder dividends, secure long-term governement contracts at no-bid, and probably best, he can show you how to **MAKE MILLIONS SELLING VAPORWARE**
Thank you Dave Raggett
Like the "\" directory/file character or the ridiculous drive designator "C","D"... Etc.
I miss how the Amiga keyboard was mapped. Left Amiga key + key was global system functions, Right Amiga key + key was in application functions. You could control the mouse with the keyboard if needed. I miss the Amiga clip board which actually worked as opposed to Windows 7 clipboard which works when it wants to. It's so spotty on my machine at work that I have to double ctrl c everything to make sure it's copied what I need.
I really don't have a problem with Windows ctrl alt del, as others have pointed out it's obscure enough of a combination that you won't accidentally hit it.
*It's not what you can do for the Dark Side but what the Dark Side can do for you!*
I just use the combination to my luggage.
That's nothing! To get to the special functions of a Nintendo you needed Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A. That got old quick but man it was powerful!
I love love LOVE ctrl-option-cmd-eject (shutdown), ctrl-cmd-eject (reboot) and control-shift-eject (blank screen)
I use them every single day.
Arguably the most useful feature of a Windows workstation turns out to be a mistake. All I can say is, rm -rf /m$/*
rm -rf ms/*
What he needs to apologize for is the use of \ instead of using the standard / on every other system.
*It's not what you can do for the Dark Side but what the Dark Side can do for you!*
Imagine if we had a way to start over each time we made a mistake, clear our heads of all the bad experiences and move ahead without the past baggage. It isn't the CTL-ALT-DEL keys that are important, (first off they were initially designed to reboot the computer), it is the fact that we as programmers design faults in to our systems and the complexity of having so many different programmers designing similar systems that are slightly different fosters anarchy. The real problem that has yet to be overcome is that computer science is not a science in the same way as all other established disciplines in the arts, sciences and trades. Until that happens several hundred years from now, we need a way to reboot from the errors in those experiments we call "programs" or "algorithms" or whatever.
Because putting the "Windows Key" between Ctrl and Alt isn't going to annoy PC gamers at all...
Accidental windows key. Game interruption. Swearing. Game death.
one design they considered was based on the 801, an early RISC processor about 45 times more powerful than the 8088
IBM's mainframe division would never allow it. Wake up and smell reality.
Ctrl-alt-del is like a code review in ones brain. You have to think harder than when pressing 1 or 2 keys.
That said, it's not like pushing the reset button where you have little control over the upcoming event.
But why question yourself? 2 keys would suffice.