Well in a way he is right it probably is a marketing problem. The truth is that we just don't have the financial muscle to do that marketing blitz thing that might just get us the recognition that other more established labels have. We do a lot of "grass roots" marketing and try and get our name out there as much as possible but there is only so much you can do with small time funding and limited time. If I didn't have a day job and could completely support myself with the label, I am sure that there would be a hell of a lot more going on as far as "marketing". To put it in a nutshell, Time and Money are needed to move things forward, which means that fans have to invest in those artists that they appreciate. If there is no revenue generated by CD (or other mediums) then the money is just not there to make more releases. Not that everything is that bad. We still put out music on CD even though we know the return isn't great but that is because we actually believe and enjoy what we are doing. I have been racking my brain for years trying to figure out how we can change the business to reflect the emerging digital music era, but maybe I'm just not the one to figure it out. I am open to ideas.:)
Well I would agree with you if that were the case but I don't think it is. You also have to remember that we have a limited budget for such things. If we were spending 80% of our cash on advertising like the big boys, then we probably wouldn't be putting out that much music.:)
...and it's been dreadfully hard to get people to buy cds. We are actually looking to release more music on vinyl now because it seems to be the current trend in our market. Personally, I buy all my music from indie labels directly which has been cheaper and a much more enjoyable process then going to the local music store chain, but I don't think most people are doing that. We have been around for almost five years and we sell just enough to keep the releases flowing. Which is OK by me but I am sure that the artists and those of us doing the work (that would be me and my partners) would like to benefit finacially from our labors.:)
Even with a web presence, it is very difficult to sell anything on the internet. One must constantly be selling themselves and their product at every step. For the musician, this requires getting out and doing shows. Small shows are relatively easy to come by, but larger venues are not. What musicians need to to work together to promote themselves and others that they feel promote their style of music. In otherwords, it requires a lot of hard work and ass kissing, which might not be something most people are willing to do. However it is possible, the Offspring are evidence to that. Unfortunately, most musicians suffer from "rockstar" syndrome, and do not want to work and instead only think about the trappings that stardom will give them rather then producing music that moves people.
z(p)
http://www.zenapolae.com --- our independent record label
I think that is a small percentage of the musician population. Most musicians have second jobs and drive to their gigs in big ugly, dented up vans. We only see the Lavish "rockstar" musicians because those are the one that the Industry want to push.:)
1. Highlight the above URL using your mouse/mouse button and pointer.
2. Select COPY from the EDIT drop-down menu, located at the top of your window (see the appropriate help file for instruction on how to use this feature).
3. Using above mentioned mouse/mouse button and pointer, place cursor into URL address field at the top of your browser of choice (we recomend Microsofts Internet Explorer).
4. Select PASTE from the EDIT drop-down menu, again located at the top of the window.
5. Click on the go button OR press the RETURN/ENTER key on your keyboard.
copyright 2002 bellace patent pending all right reserved Send all payments for use of the above mentioned method to zenasprime@zenasprime.net
I think the whole reason Apple bought out emagic was due to the fact that the Audio Developers have dropped the ball on OS X developement (yea they whine about Core Audio not being finished, boo hoo, I guess that's why m-Audio has OS X drivers for all their audio products). If you are a first time buyer looking for audio hardware/software and the sales rep says that Apples are great but there is no compatable audio software/drivers available, what platform do you think they are going to choose?
Anyway, after years of developers dropping Mac support for one reason or other, I don't think I am going to loose any sleep over it. Hell it not like I have support for my hardware/software of choice either (MOTU). Let the Win unsers migrate over to Cubase (or Cakewalk).
I don't get it. Why do people feel the need to be root anyway? I have been an OS X user since Beta. I host my website on OS X and recently OS X server. I have configured Apache, BIND, Sendmail (ugh) and Postfix. I compile C++ source from the command line. If for some reason need to run a command as root (which can be frequent) i use sudo. There is a program called pseudo that will run apps as if they are root by drag/drop-ing files on top of it. If the user is an admin, they can config the system and install by simply providing their passwd. I have activated root from NetInfo to access certain functions but never once needed to log in as root. What is all the fuss is about?
"Piracy is not a private offense, it hurts everyone by diminishing the incentive to invest in the creation of music."
My record label and the artists that write music for us (including myself) rarely make any money for the music we create, yet we are suppose to believe that this somehow prevents us from being creative. I invest large sums of money into this endevour and the only thing that I receive in return is the knowledge that I had done something.
Lets face it, music has been around for as long as humanity if not longer. I don't thing we need corporate enterprises to fund it nor digitial networks to distribute it. Musicians will continue to be born and feel the need to create regardless of the rewards and we will continue to enjoy it in every form till the end of time.
1) Even if they can, they still aren't the original artist. As well as "Bad Medicine" plays Bon Jovi, nothing beats the real Bon Jovi. Music was ment to be performed, that's half of what music is, a performance, and interperatation of life.
I could really care less who does bon jovi, I still don't like it. And besides, the radio that I am forced to listen to at work has made any rendition of popular music unbearable. Those I will say this, LSMJ, while not my thing, DID do their covers much better then most of the original musicians when I saw them live.
2) Are you crazy? I dare you to sit down and go write the next chart topper? I honestly don't think any Joe Blow can write music the way the Beatles did, or the way Matchbox 20 does. Or Bon Jovi, or Journey, or Creed, or Foriegner, or Three Dog Night, or Pat Benitar etc etc etc did
again, there isn't a single act in this list you are providing that I could care to ever hear again. The Industry has made damn sure that each and every one of these artist has been milked for every bit of green they have to give and any possible integrety they could possibly have left for being "inovators" in the evolution of music. Your taste in music is reflective of this list then I doubt you would be able to spot any truely inovative music that Joe Blow could come up with. The fact is that the charts are simply a marketing tool used to promote the sales of Industry products. They tell you what is a "chart topper" so that you go out and buy it.
3) What's your point? Just because you can get perfessional home equipment doesn't mean you have a studio, it means you have a room with some really nice equipment in it.
What's your point? Just because you DON'T have professional home equipment doesn't mean you can't create inovative and entertaining music. With the home recording revolution, the ability to make great music is actually a function of the individual rather then that of a corporate monopoly. Yes, the equipment is not Industry standard (who has a million bucks for a truely professional quality compressor) but who besides the audio purists are going to be able to tell the difference between a Brittney Spear production and something a little bit more home grown. The truth is, with a little inginuity and a lot of sweat, it is possible to make that gold record without the assistance of the MAN. Case in point: the Offspring. It is possible if your average rocksta gets off his ass and actually does something beside look and act hip and drive around in some fancy car.
4) Actualy, in my opinion, most musicians today are rather lousy. There are very few musicians that I would willingly pay money to go see, let alone buy their music. And no I'm not some old fart either. But in all honesty, because of how little attention there is to quality and the fact that you can now sell a record based on one good song and everything else being crap, there are very few high quality musicians out there.
I agree with you here. Most music is crap, especially the cooky cutter crap that the Industry likes to promote because it is easy to produce and market to the mindless masses. Perhaps you just havn't been looking in the right places for what is new out there. I don't think I bought a single Industry issue for several years now. Yes, I listen to the independents. I support the ones I like by attending their gigs. And yes, I feel that the quality entertainment is out there without our friends in the Industry showing me where to look.
5) Most perform for pay, that's how music is supposed to be. You get payed based on how well you can write and PERFORM the music.
Now that is a bit nieve, don't you think? Most artists get paid because the Industry believes they can sell the records and make the green. It has little to do with actual talent. For god's sake, haven't you seen N'SYNC?
Anyway, good music is out there if you just look for it. We don't need the Industry to tell us where to find it.
Your an idiot. Grow up and get a clue. The maintainers of these blacklist do not just exclude spammers/open relays from their own servers, instead they are providing a "service" to other admistrators. They have a responsibility to maintain the integrety of their lists, even if they provide this service is given at no cost.
I can't wait until there will be nobody left that is capable of sending email because idiots like you are running things. lol, what a joke you freaks are.
Who gave the blacklisters the athority to make these decisions? Who is watching these anti-spamers to make sure that they just don't blacklist an IP just because they don't agree with someones viewpoint or perhaps they are pissed off at someone. It seems to me that any IP can be added to the list without any due process because a few people think it's OK to for them to be judge, jury and executioner.
Attitudes like the one above only provide evidence that those who support the anti-spam movement lack the responsibility to "regulate" internet email.
apparently the anti-spam fundamentalists don't see this as their problem. Eventually the problem will be solve because there will more ip on these lists then off. I hate spam but I am begining to believe these crusaders are just as bad.
Ever try to get help setting up a complient server? Try sifting through countless messages condeming any and everybody that doesnt fall into their radical camps.
Where are the moderates? http://www.dotcomeon.com/eff_011016.html
"Any measure for stopping spam must ensure that all non-spam messages reach their intended recipients. " (http://www.dotcomeon.com/eff_011016.html).
Blacklists seem like a good idea on the surface but any system that prevents me from receiving or sending legitimate email becomes just as much a nusiance as the spam itself. Balance is the key.
Can someone tell me what resources are available for those that do want to set up compliant servers BEFORE they get blacklisted. A simple search for "open relay blacklist" did not come up with anything useful, only more retoric from anti-spam fundamentalists.
of the growing individualistic (some might say narsasistic) nature of western culture, a side effect of the great corporate fudalist state that we have become, or possibly a combination of both, with each supporting the other?
Slashdot Mirror
Well in a way he is right it probably is a marketing problem. The truth is that we just don't have the financial muscle to do that marketing blitz thing that might just get us the recognition that other more established labels have. We do a lot of "grass roots" marketing and try and get our name out there as much as possible but there is only so much you can do with small time funding and limited time. If I didn't have a day job and could completely support myself with the label, I am sure that there would be a hell of a lot more going on as far as "marketing". To put it in a nutshell, Time and Money are needed to move things forward, which means that fans have to invest in those artists that they appreciate. If there is no revenue generated by CD (or other mediums) then the money is just not there to make more releases. Not that everything is that bad. We still put out music on CD even though we know the return isn't great but that is because we actually believe and enjoy what we are doing. I have been racking my brain for years trying to figure out how we can change the business to reflect the emerging digital music era, but maybe I'm just not the one to figure it out. I am open to ideas. :)
zenas
http://www.zenapolae.com
Well I would agree with you if that were the case but I don't think it is. You also have to remember that we have a limited budget for such things. If we were spending 80% of our cash on advertising like the big boys, then we probably wouldn't be putting out that much music. :)
zenas
http://www.zenapolae.com
...and it's been dreadfully hard to get people to buy cds. We are actually looking to release more music on vinyl now because it seems to be the current trend in our market. Personally, I buy all my music from indie labels directly which has been cheaper and a much more enjoyable process then going to the local music store chain, but I don't think most people are doing that. We have been around for almost five years and we sell just enough to keep the releases flowing. Which is OK by me but I am sure that the artists and those of us doing the work (that would be me and my partners) would like to benefit finacially from our labors. :)
zenas(prime)
http://www.zenapolae.com
maybe the problem is you? ;)
Even with a web presence, it is very difficult to sell anything on the internet. One must constantly be selling themselves and their product at every step. For the musician, this requires getting out and doing shows. Small shows are relatively easy to come by, but larger venues are not. What musicians need to to work together to promote themselves and others that they feel promote their style of music. In otherwords, it requires a lot of hard work and ass kissing, which might not be something most people are willing to do. However it is possible, the Offspring are evidence to that. Unfortunately, most musicians suffer from "rockstar" syndrome, and do not want to work and instead only think about the trappings that stardom will give them rather then producing music that moves people.
z(p)
http://www.zenapolae.com --- our independent record label
I think that is a small percentage of the musician population. Most musicians have second jobs and drive to their gigs in big ugly, dented up vans. We only see the Lavish "rockstar" musicians because those are the one that the Industry want to push. :)
z(p)
http://www.zenapolae.com
blast foiled again!
_ pr oduct=DM&p_theme=dm&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200& s_dispstring=deep%20linking&p_field_advanced-0=&p_ text_advanced-0=("deep%20linking")&p_perpage=1 0
Damn IE stuck spaces all throughout that url. Well you get the idea.
http://nl9.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p
If it doesn't work this time you will just have to do without the irony.
Oh, and their site is buggy, slow and expensive so who really would want to link to them anyway.
z(p)
http://nl9.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_pr oduct=DM&p_theme=dm&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200& s_dispstring=deep%20linking&p_field_advanced-0=&p_ text_advanced-0=("deep%20linking")&p_perpage=1 0
1. Highlight the above URL using your mouse/mouse button and pointer.
2. Select COPY from the EDIT drop-down menu, located at the top of your window (see the appropriate help file for instruction on how to use this feature).
3. Using above mentioned mouse/mouse button and pointer, place cursor into URL address field at the top of your browser of choice (we recomend Microsofts Internet Explorer).
4. Select PASTE from the EDIT drop-down menu, again located at the top of the window.
5. Click on the go button OR press the RETURN/ENTER key on your keyboard.
copyright 2002 bellace
patent pending
all right reserved
Send all payments for use of the above mentioned method to zenasprime@zenasprime.net
I think the whole reason Apple bought out emagic was due to the fact that the Audio Developers have dropped the ball on OS X developement (yea they whine about Core Audio not being finished, boo hoo, I guess that's why m-Audio has OS X drivers for all their audio products). If you are a first time buyer looking for audio hardware/software and the sales rep says that Apples are great but there is no compatable audio software/drivers available, what platform do you think they are going to choose?
Anyway, after years of developers dropping Mac support for one reason or other, I don't think I am going to loose any sleep over it. Hell it not like I have support for my hardware/software of choice either (MOTU). Let the Win unsers migrate over to Cubase (or Cakewalk).
z(p)
http://www.zenasprime.net
18 just isn't a good record. Perhaps all of the poor record sales for the major record releases is because they suck.
z(p)
you should be in bed at 3am not shopping at your local megamart.
:)
z(p)
I don't get it. Why do people feel the need to be root anyway? I have been an OS X user since Beta. I host my website on OS X and recently OS X server. I have configured Apache, BIND, Sendmail (ugh) and Postfix. I compile C++ source from the command line. If for some reason need to run a command as root (which can be frequent) i use sudo. There is a program called pseudo that will run apps as if they are root by drag/drop-ing files on top of it. If the user is an admin, they can config the system and install by simply providing their passwd. I have activated root from NetInfo to access certain functions but never once needed to log in as root. What is all the fuss is about?
z(p)
how about ala 1789.
In the old days, the aristocracy had more to lose then they do today...
;)
z(p)
"Piracy is not a private offense, it hurts everyone by diminishing the incentive to invest in the creation of music."
My record label and the artists that write music for us (including myself) rarely make any money for the music we create, yet we are suppose to believe that this somehow prevents us from being creative. I invest large sums of money into this endevour and the only thing that I receive in return is the knowledge that I had done something.
Fuck them!
zenas(prime)
http://www.zenapolae.com
Lets face it, music has been around for as long as humanity if not longer. I don't thing we need corporate enterprises to fund it nor digitial networks to distribute it. Musicians will continue to be born and feel the need to create regardless of the rewards and we will continue to enjoy it in every form till the end of time.
:)
think about that.
z(p)
If you play it enough, people will think it's good
Exactly, and does anybody know which "musician" out of 100 years of music was voted (or should I say hand picked) as the Musician of the Century?
Of course you know that real musicians didn't pop up until the 60's.
z(p)
1) Even if they can, they still aren't the original artist. As well as "Bad Medicine" plays Bon Jovi, nothing beats the real Bon Jovi. Music was ment to be performed, that's half of what music is, a performance, and interperatation of life.
I could really care less who does bon jovi, I still don't like it. And besides, the radio that I am forced to listen to at work has made any rendition of popular music unbearable. Those I will say this, LSMJ, while not my thing, DID do their covers much better then most of the original musicians when I saw them live.
2) Are you crazy? I dare you to sit down and go write the next chart topper? I honestly don't think any Joe Blow can write music the way the Beatles did, or the way Matchbox 20 does. Or Bon Jovi, or Journey, or Creed, or Foriegner, or Three Dog Night, or Pat Benitar etc etc etc did
again, there isn't a single act in this list you are providing that I could care to ever hear again. The Industry has made damn sure that each and every one of these artist has been milked for every bit of green they have to give and any possible integrety they could possibly have left for being "inovators" in the evolution of music. Your taste in music is reflective of this list then I doubt you would be able to spot any truely inovative music that Joe Blow could come up with. The fact is that the charts are simply a marketing tool used to promote the sales of Industry products. They tell you what is a "chart topper" so that you go out and buy it.
3) What's your point? Just because you can get perfessional home equipment doesn't mean you have a studio, it means you have a room with some really nice equipment in it.
What's your point? Just because you DON'T have professional home equipment doesn't mean you can't create inovative and entertaining music. With the home recording revolution, the ability to make great music is actually a function of the individual rather then that of a corporate monopoly. Yes, the equipment is not Industry standard (who has a million bucks for a truely professional quality compressor) but who besides the audio purists are going to be able to tell the difference between a Brittney Spear production and something a little bit more home grown. The truth is, with a little inginuity and a lot of sweat, it is possible to make that gold record without the assistance of the MAN. Case in point: the Offspring. It is possible if your average rocksta gets off his ass and actually does something beside look and act hip and drive around in some fancy car.
4) Actualy, in my opinion, most musicians today are rather lousy. There are very few musicians that I would willingly pay money to go see, let alone buy their music. And no I'm not some old fart either. But in all honesty, because of how little attention there is to quality and the fact that you can now sell a record based on one good song and everything else being crap, there are very few high quality musicians out there.
I agree with you here. Most music is crap, especially the cooky cutter crap that the Industry likes to promote because it is easy to produce and market to the mindless masses. Perhaps you just havn't been looking in the right places for what is new out there. I don't think I bought a single Industry issue for several years now. Yes, I listen to the independents. I support the ones I like by attending their gigs. And yes, I feel that the quality entertainment is out there without our friends in the Industry showing me where to look.
5) Most perform for pay, that's how music is supposed to be. You get payed based on how well you can write and PERFORM the music.
Now that is a bit nieve, don't you think? Most artists get paid because the Industry believes they can sell the records and make the green. It has little to do with actual talent. For god's sake, haven't you seen N'SYNC?
Anyway, good music is out there if you just look for it. We don't need the Industry to tell us where to find it.
z(P)
Nah, It just means that most of them will have to get up off their lazy rocksta asses and work for a living.
:)
I run an independent label btw...
z(p)
Your an idiot. Grow up and get a clue. The maintainers of these blacklist do not just exclude spammers/open relays from their own servers, instead they are providing a "service" to other admistrators. They have a responsibility to maintain the integrety of their lists, even if they provide this service is given at no cost.
I can't wait until there will be nobody left that is capable of sending email because idiots like you are running things. lol, what a joke you freaks are.
Zenas
Who gave the blacklisters the athority to make these decisions? Who is watching these anti-spamers to make sure that they just don't blacklist an IP just because they don't agree with someones viewpoint or perhaps they are pissed off at someone. It seems to me that any IP can be added to the list without any due process because a few people think it's OK to for them to be judge, jury and executioner.
Attitudes like the one above only provide evidence that those who support the anti-spam movement lack the responsibility to "regulate" internet email.
zenas
apparently the anti-spam fundamentalists don't see this as their problem. Eventually the problem will be solve because there will more ip on these lists then off. I hate spam but I am begining to believe these crusaders are just as bad.
Ever try to get help setting up a complient server? Try sifting through countless messages condeming any and everybody that doesnt fall into their radical camps.
Where are the moderates? http://www.dotcomeon.com/eff_011016.html
zenas
"Any measure for stopping spam must ensure that all non-spam messages reach their intended recipients. " (http://www.dotcomeon.com/eff_011016.html).
Blacklists seem like a good idea on the surface but any system that prevents me from receiving or sending legitimate email becomes just as much a nusiance as the spam itself. Balance is the key.
Can someone tell me what resources are available for those that do want to set up compliant servers BEFORE they get blacklisted. A simple search for "open relay blacklist" did not come up with anything useful, only more retoric from anti-spam fundamentalists.
thanks,
zenas
Probably.
:)
of the growing individualistic (some might say narsasistic) nature of western culture, a side effect of the great corporate fudalist state that we have become, or possibly a combination of both, with each supporting the other?
Pharmacy, you will see exactly how pathetic it can get.