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Walmart Ships PCs with Lindows OS
Tonetheman writes "Walmart is now shipping low cost PC's with Lindows pre-installed. And yes I know there was a review earlier on Slashdot about installing Linux on one of these bad boys. This is different and much more exciting. To think of the legions of rednecks who could now possibly be running Lindows instead of Windows..." There's a Newsforge story too. Hopefully Lindows makes a good impression.
Trolling in the name of
Some of those that boot Suse
Are the same that bought XP
Some of those that boot Suse
Are the same that bought XP
Trolling in the name of
And now you run what they told you
And now you run what they told you
And now you run what they told you
95 is justified for running the games that you didn't buy
95 is justified for running the games that you didn't buy
Some of those that boot Suse
Are the same that bought XP
Some of those that boot Suse
Are the same that bought XP
And you run what they told you
Now your under control
And you run what they told you
Now your under control
And you run what they told you
Come on!
Fuck you I wont run what you tell me
Fuck you I wont run what you tell me
Fuck you I wont run what you tell me
Fuck you I wont run what you tell me
Motherfucker
"Under the iron bridge, we fist" - The Smiths, Still Ill
I though that it was still in beta, aren't they afraid of claims for 'not functioning like windows, despite the misleading name'?
To think of the legions of rednecks who could now possibly be running Lindows instead of Windows...
Rednecks can't spell anyway, so they probably think it's exactly the same as what they had previously.
mogorific carpentry experiments
Legions of rednecks killed me!
You know you're a redneck if: you run Lindows on a WalMart PC.
Why would people want to use a kludged together OS with loads of confusing legacy included for backwards compatibility and a cryptic API anyway?
Damn, that's gonna cause confusion with tech support.
"What OS are you using?"
"Lindows"
"Windows?"
"Yeah, Lindows"
Seems like the wal-mart grade rednecks will be the frontrunners of the linux desktop revolution. Bet you didn't see that coming!
idm owns me
Are we sure this is a good thing? Now every billy joe bob in the territory is going to be calling me up wanting me to come fix his computer... at least with windows there were Microsoft tech support lines and stuff that i could pawn them off on.. "Sorry bud, I don't do Windows." They know i'm a *nix freak, so my number is going to be on the top of their list.. sheesh...
Linux, the Wal-Mart Operating System.
Cunning linguists
To think of the legions of rednecks...
Fuck you bitch! I shop at Wal-Mart and I'm no redneck!
in light of this, someone's gonna have to write some family tree software for lindows that lets your mother and sister to be one and the same...
----------
"Yes, I have breasts. Now quit looking at them"
http://www.geek-ware.co.uk
I'd like one of those computurds with the megaram and the gigahurts. Does it come with the www.pr0n.com installed?
-Joe
Not Funny, but I try
Now I wonder how long it'll take for M$ to launch OE for Lindows, and carry all the virii along...FUN FUN FUN Or better yet, they try to sue Walmart for trying to bully out Microsoft products off the shelves by using anti-competitive tactics....
http://www.lindows.com/lindows_products_screenshot s.php
"Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
I'm of the opinion that people (this includes everyone) should be made aware of the fact that there are different OSs, of which only a few can run the software written for another OS. With this rudimentary knowledge, the world would become a much more pleasant place to live in if you happen to work at a helldesk. Note: the typo was intentional.
Site & blog: http://www.mayaposch.com
A company as large as Walmart might be just big enough and have enough bargain-basement customers to make this fly. And at $299 for the Duron 850mhz model, who can't afford one of these.
One problem I can see is that the hardware in these systems might(and probably is) of sub-par level. Instability issues caused by poor hardware quality may undermine the "frugal" consumer's viewpoint of the *nix OS enviroment. Not to mention that they'll have a hard time finding tech support locally considering that most tech shops are generally geared towards MS products and not Linux.
Duris MUD - The best pkill MUD. Ever.
that they have replaced the old winmodem with a hardware one like they said they were going to
Although I'm sure that the lads down at wallmart have tested lindows on their new machines properly
...
...
...
right?
p.s. I just noticed a little checkbox under my post... what is a Score +1 Bonus? and why did I get the option of having one?
AFAIK, Lindows is based on wine. Wal-Mart customers will tend to buy a lot of games for their computer. Sounds to me like manufactures will soon find it a requirement to test their games with Lindows, and thus they will be wine compatable too.
Not as good as native linux games, but a close second. If nothing else this could drive some real compitition to microsoft!
If only it works... I'm not holding my breath yet.
Redneck just got a computer...
1997: I got Winders Ninedy Eight!
2000: I got Winders Doodousand!
2001: I got Winders EckPee!
2002: I got Linders? What da hell is Linders?
Colin Dean Go a year without DRM
... the customer takes the computer at home, grabs a copy of windows 2000 or xp from a friends, removes that crap lindows and installs windows on it ...
so, first of all, nice stereotype. i guess all the fat, dateless, acne-scarred men on this site need something to chuckle about between visiting sites analyzing spock's deepest thoughts and pron.
and second of all, why would you be so excited about these legions of rednecks using lindows? does nobody here see that computers today are the same as automobiles in the 50s and 60s -- that, back then, it was an elite group of youngsters that really got into the maintenance of and differences between various machines. now mechanics are a dime a dozen, and near the bottom rung of the social ladder, in most places. indeed, they are rednecks. santayana would know what warning to give.
go get it
The only reason Wal-Mart is doing this is because they can save a few buck over Windows boxes.
Wal-Mart IS the Evil Empire and are destroying America one Super Center at a time.
The Wal-Mart company in the largest company in the world.
5 of the 10 richest people are Waltons.
They force the suppliers they have to produce products off shore to make them cheaper.
Don't shop at Wal-Mart of Sam's Club.
what exactly *is* Lindows? In everything I've read, I haven't been able to figure out what it is. Their site hardly gives a good explaination. Could someone give us the low-down?
Thanks in advance.
It'll never happen of course, but it would be nice.
Ad in classifieds: Pandora's Box (no box) $5
Cousin Cletus is gona blow a gasket if Deer Hunter wont run on these things.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
To me, it didn't seem to be much more than KDE2 default with a pretty picture for the background. This is a problem. KDE default is NOT intuitive to Windows users.
I am currently helping a co-worker who is curious about Linux learn her way around on one of the spare machines here. Her first question (w/ RH 7.3 default) was that even after 10 minutes of poking at stuff she could not find the taskbar buried in with all that other stuff. That was just the beginning.
If you are going to cater to the Windows crowd you have to _really_ cater to them, not just change the icon theme.
I ain't gettin' no cornputer that t'aint playing Deer Hunter.
Walmart is about the only US company I can think of that can actually take on MS. Walmart isn't really rooted in the technology industry so they don't stand to lose as much as say, Dell, from taking a stab at selling Lindows computers. I think most of us who know anything about MS know that the reason that Dell, HP, etc. etc... don't sell machines without Windows or even dual-boot machines with something other than two versions of Windows is because MS would revoke their license to sell Windows.
Screw the "legions of rednecks" idea, I believe there are many people who are curious enough about other OSes to get an extra computer, especially since they are supposed to be cheap, from Walmart just to poke around. Who knows once the average Joe realized that their are other options maybe he'll download some Debian images and never use Windows again.
Cheers to Walmart, good job guys.
sig
It would help if I read the FAQ before asking :D
I think some of you are expressing concern because you don't want the mass public using anything but Windows. When everyone starts moving in on your elite OS, it no longer is the cool thing to use, so you must find something else to move on to....
There's no "I" in Linux.. err..
Hey Y'all, Jeb just set up a beowolf cluster.
As some are likely to argue. But this move clearly indicates that Walmart fears no one. It is almost an act of dominion that no supplier tells Walmart what to do.
Maybe I missed something...but last time I checked Lindows was still in beta stage, and with good reason too!
From my experience, they might be combining MS-like stability and security (running everything as root etc.) with Linux-like usability*, resulting in a horribly unusable OS - for which Linux will most probably get the blame by mainstream reporters. Ah well, we'll see.
Walmarts idea is probably something like this: they can save money on the computers this way, and they probably don't really care about what their customers use it for (do they have a reason to? Do they have to offer support etc.?), so that would explain things....
* usability for Joe Avg. User, e.g. consistent GUI's and stuff, you know what I mean...combining Wine and KDE and X will not get you a very consistent UI experience probably....
Every expression is true, for a given value of 'true'
I can just imagine millions of these things selling widely. Then every single one being hacked by one group with the same root exploit. Think of the headlines "Wal-Mart facilitates domestic terrorism" "Internet Weakened by Linux manchines" etc. In some ways it's kind of what the ADTI people want.
The sum of all Lindows fears.
Will this Redneck Linux outsell Redhat Linux? Will people remember there are other distributions?
Will pictures of a penguin urinating replace those travesties of Bill Watterson's creations that are now ubiquitous?
If it crashes a lot, will anyone notice?
Libertarianism is rich wolves and poor sheep playing gambler's ruin for dinner.
"To think of the legions of rednecks who could now possibly be running Lindows instead of Windows..."
It sounds funny, but just wait till they buy and try to install something made for Windows. Much to their surprise, it won't work, and they'll be calling up Wal-Mart asking them what kind of shinanigans they were trying to pull.
Now I haven't seen the packaging for these Lindows PCs, but I'd be willing to bet that some people COULD be confused into believing they're in fact buying a Windows PC. When they do discover their error, they'll think they were suckered into buying some kind of like a cheap knock-off (don't have the exact appropriate Simpsons quote).
If that happens, it's probably not the kind of PR that Lindows is looking for. Both Lindows and Wal-Mart have to be very careful to make sure the differences between Windows and Lindows are clearly explained.
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
Selling people Linux machines with Wine isn't a win for Linux. You still have to shell out probably more cash for Office than for the machines themselves, and it's probably not going to work very well, turning even more people away from "things that are different".
Sure this might be a loss for Microsoft, but it's certainly not a win for Linux.
www.lindows.com doesn't mention Wal-Mart at all... In fact, they only mention preview releases.
If this were real, the people that make Lindows would have the news pasted all over their website.
I'm driving to Walmart today to see if I can check one of these 'puters out.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
The ad says:
(Emphasis in bold not added) When you say this to the general public (which is pretty much the Wal-Mart crowd), you're saying that most programs will work exactly as they do under Windows, and not just run for a few *seconds* and crashing most of the time (like many do under Wine). Is theirs a reasonable claim? If not, it could make Linux look bad in general.
Looks like windows, kinda feels like windows, stable, UNIX based, runs most of the big important Windows programs...
We're talking Mac's with OS X, right?
The angel in the oatmeal.
linux, preinstalled on computers sold by a major retail chain. could this mark the entry of linux into the home consumer market?
i think this is a milestone for linux...
Me email iz skyewalkerluke at microsoft's free email service.
Next walmart will start selling bare bone systems,....then eventually evolve into ,shudder, Fry's!
After spending months and years working for free to create a windows environment in Linux... some scumbags are using your donated time and energy to hoodwink ignorant customers into buying cheap pcs.
It's kind of sad, really.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
about the uptake of Linux to the desktop you wouldn't think there would be so much negativity about this. Walmart is a huge retailer who is willing to preinstall a version of Linux that is actually usable to most people and still you complain. I hope this gets modded up because this negativity is quite disturbing. What a great way to get application/game devs to port their stuff. Do you people know how many people actually shop at Walmart. And suffice to say they are not all rednecks.
Not being from the US where this is all happening, the prices are just numbers that don't mean too much - compared to similar systems, do walmart look to be passing on the savings over providing windows?.
Looks a good idea so far, on two fronts - giving people an alternative to windows, and letting anyone who's a little more cluey to run an alternative system without having wasted cash on an OS they're not going to use. Thats the theory, nice if the practice holds up with lower prices.
a grrl & her server
Of course it will. They'll think it's fantastic, right up to the point when they try to install their favourite Windows applications and it all goes horribly wrong.
Then they'll mutter "crock of shit" and take it back to Walmart to complain.
Not that I blame them, Walmart is advertising it as having the ability to run most Microsoft software, which (unless it's changed drastically) isn't quite the case.
I'm all for getting Linux to the masses, but if they oversell what it can do, then they'll end up putting off people rather than attracting them.
Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
From lindows.com
*Note: Even though Insiders will also get the final version of LindowsOS when it's released later this year, the Insiders program is designed for those looking to get involved with our mission early on and take a look at the LindowsOS Sneak Previews as they are released and sharing their feedback with us. If you are only interested in looking at LindowsOS when it is finished and "useable", you should probably wait for the final release.
Okay, so it's not finished but you can order a Wal-Mart PC with it pre-installed now?!? I'd hate to think that thousands of red necks are going to become beta testers for a new linux distro!! And if it is somehow actually shipping (web sight horribly out of date) where is the source?? I'm not entirely clear on how the GPL works on this "preview" version they've been tossing around but if it is being distributed pre-installed on PCs I'm pretty sure that they have to release the source.
I stole this Sig
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=31934&cid=3
It is exciting to see this happening, but the acid test is whether they are still selling these machines in this config in three months' time. If they *are*, then we may have a major breakthrough on our hands.
Dunstan
The last scintilla of doubt just rode out of town
Novel theory: Modern Man evolved from psychopath
Your Karma can't go above 50. Interestingly, it took a year to get to 25 and just one month more to get to 50. [Shrug]
In Gloucester, VA, they just built the largest Super Walmart and distribution centre in the world or some crap like that. So there are probably going to be a lot of bubbas to lazy to drive over to Newport News to go to CompUSA and will buy these things. I don't know why. J-Random Bubba Junior is going to be more hurt than helped by this. We complain about freedom or technical issues. They complain about not being able to play Solitare, read their email, and play the latest copy of some game. They don't need to be running UNIX to do those things. Chances are this will just present them with more options they don't understand. Windows is confusing enough for most people around here, why do they now need to be confused and only able to run "most" microsoft applications? Also, how does it help us to have a flood of people who arn't going to contribute anything back except bitch at us and demand help in chat rooms without saything "thank you" at the end as if we exist soley to be their god damned tech support line?
If one uses mostly Unix and runs just a few Windows programs because he likes them, he may find convenient to run all his staff on a single OS without need to reboot.
Wal-Mart is one of the worst companies ever. Do not buy anything there.
At the end of each of the PC descriptions it says:
Special Offer -- Select up to 3 free software applications from the Lindows.com Warehouse of software applications
I personally do not like the wording of that. Isn't Lindows a software repository of packages, or are they charging after the first 3 downloads?
Wal-Mart shoppers are already used to buying things like kola, chokolat, jeens, meet and asspren. I'm sure Lindows will fit right in with all the other misleading named products there. So I don't think this turn of events will do much to help the Lindows/Windows trademark suite.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
this will put M$FT's pantys in a bunch...
Ya know, it really disturbs me that this kind of blatant stereotyping is going in a "enlightened group discussion" on /.. I myself shop at Wal-mart and have been on occasion referred to as a redneck. Yes, I'm from the south, yes, I consider myself a "good ole boy". But ya know what, I work on computers all day long, use only Linux/Unix systems and I'm damn good at it. why don't we just start insulting other groups of people in our posts, like say yankees, foreigners, black, hispanics.... no? Then lets try and avoid insulting a group of people who you think you're better than.
--Keeping the flame wars alive, one post at a time
If I remember my ancient history properly, Commodore thought a good way to get to the masses was to sell product through K-Mart.
All that got them was the same reputation that Kame-Apart's crappy TVs had.
It made them a non-business option for whole legions of companies when they were still considered a viable option for businesses.
Are you going to install Lindows based PCs in your Fortune 500 enterprise when Wal-Mart sells them? Probably not.
Wally-Mart could very well be a kiss of death for Lindows as a viable OS for any kind of professional.
When you stain your product with "low class" like that, it's very hard to remove.
A risky choice, all around, IMHO.
From the Walmart ad:
These computers do not ship with Microsoft Windows. They ship with an exciting new UNIX based Operating System (OS) named Lindows. This exciting new OS delivers the stability of UNIX...
Wouldn't it be more accurate to say Linux-based since from a user's viewpoint it looks like Windows but runs Windows and Linux programs? And technically didn't they build this off Linux and not BSD? I'm just wondering if Walmart made a simple mistake or if they're intentionally wanting to associate it with UNIX instead of Linux for some reason.
Lindows and Wine being almost ready for primetime. Open-office being almost compatible with M$ Office. It all reminds me of the late 80's when IBM clones were almost 100% compatable. Its makes me very hopeful.
These computers do not ship with Microsoft Windows. They ship with an exciting new UNIX based Operating System (OS) named Lindows. This exciting new OS delivers the stability of UNIX with the ease of Windows and the ability to run most Microsoft programs. These computer systems are a perfect low cost alternative to computers preloaded with Microsoft Windows.
Taken from the site
I like the low cost alternative line. Looks to to me like they are selling barebones boxes and including lindows to stop MS from starting some kind of legal war. Saying that Wal-Mart is encouraging warez.
Str8Dog
using System.Darkside; public
hmm... Lindows... sounds like Japanese marijuana:
Glass!
neh?
But there is an alternative. NT runs a lot of POSIX programs...
I whole new bunch of people using Linux who can't even figure out to plug in their mouse. And why some of you feel the need to recreate Windows on Linux is beyond me.
...I wonder how MS is going to retaliate? (Also, a few times I've pestered the local brick-and-mortar Wal-Mart about whether they sell computers without an OS--"Gee, walmart.com has them..."--and I'll probably ask them about these, too. Will Wal-Mart ever sell these in the brick-and-mortar stores?)
Only if it runs advanced computer games designed for Windows.
think of the legions of rednecks...
Can you get comet cursor for it? If not, I don't want it.
And yahoo messenger.
And some sort of automatic daily wallpaper update.
Evil is the money of root.
You know you're a Redneck if... (fill in the blank here)"
This is the gayest thing I've seen since seeing Michael Robertson live. no mention of Linux there, so that's good.
Lindows at Walmart
-
Competition is the mother of evolution.As far as I can tell this new promotion is like the OS-less PC promotion. It is being offered online only. You can not go into a Wal*Mart store and buy and OS-less PC. I doubt you will be able to go into a Wal*Mart store and buy a Lindows PC.
So, who has access to the Wal*Mart website? Those people who already have a computer. Who goes to Wal*Mart.com to buy a PC? Outside of those people that want an OS-less PC to install Linux on, probably not a large number of people.
This isn't going to convert unsuspecting people to Linux users (a dangerous thing to wish for at any rate). It isn't going to spread Linux to the mass market. It isn't going to steal any appreciable market share away from Microsoft.
It's noteworthy for the fact that a major retailer has thumbed their nose at Microsoft. But, that same major retailer is only thumbing their nose while behind a box in a locked room with the shades drawn so that the world can not really see that they are doing it.
If other major computer resellers follow suit (which I doubt they will), then this will become interesting. Now, though, it's nothing more than YALPOS (Yet Another Linux Post On Slashdot)
Fuck all "Ya'll" that wish to believe that "all" shoppers at Walmart are "rednecks". Living in Houston, Tx. I take offense to this name calling. If you want to come on down here, I'll kick all your "GEEK" asses. Dead before dawn. Newspaperfish
It seems that we can make disparaging remarks about rednecks. They are a group of people we can all feel superior to, and snigger about in weak jokes. But woe betide anyone who does that about negroes/Jews/muslims. Is there a good reason for this duality?
I can't see a local Walmart associate being able to trouble shoot more serious Windows problems let alone Lindows. You know people are going to seek support in the electronics section of their local Walmart.
*No offense to Walmart associates, I'm just implying that Walmart is not an experienced computer retailer like Dell, Compac, Gateway (or even Circuit City or other electronics retailers but...) and does not have the support staff.
Am I off my rocker on this? Is Lindows really that good that it can replace Windows for the average user? If it is, why haven't I seen more about it posted here?
Ascalante: Your bride is over 3,000 years old.
Kull: She told me she was 19!
it will probably harm the image of Linux among the masses, it now being associated with perceived second-rate, "Wal-Mart" PCs.
Call (206) 338-5780 COLLECT for information about a genuine BA, BS, MA, MS, MBA, or Ph.D.
If it was darn easy to plug into a phone, subscribe to an ISP and get browsing and email, it may have a chance, then the genuinely interested users can start up the learning curve and enjoy a crash & virus free existance.
Personally, I've avoided helping out home users with all their GD windows problems for years, as I'm not about to waste my time working free tech support for multi-billionaires, but if I meet someone with one of these it'd be fun to talk shop with them.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
But I do see a very important market for these machines as grown-up versions of Internet appliances. If all someone wants to do is surf the web, send email, and do word processing, they can get away with native Linux applications. At $299, that's not a bad deal for someone who just doesn't care about the functionality that's not as easily available under Lindows.
MS Linux could be a better idea!
you mean, like Linux?
This snotty comment just goes to show how distant the average techno geek is from the people who are really sponsoring the computer industry,
and thus, your paychecks.
You should be grateful that anyone in mainstream retail is trying to sell Linux on anything these days.
This marketing attempt will probably fail
like all the other attempts to sell Linux.
I bet dollars to donuts that anyone who buys one
of these crappy workstations will be cursing Walmart, and within a week, will be hunting around for a copy of Windows to replace it.
Let's just hope that Linux doesn't go down in flames alongside with Lindows.
I was surprised to see this post. If I commented on niggers buying computers at KFC, I am labelled a racist. However, it is just fun and games to label southern and rural whites as "rednecks." The terms are equally offensive, and I do not see what this label has to do with a marketing decision by Walmart.
/.
Yes, we all have fun. But I just cannot believe that this type of garbage has made its way to
Magnetbox, Sorny, and Panaphonic.
what kills me about the Linux crowd, please excuse the generalization, is that there is absolute belief in the superiority of the platform, and absolute obsession with the lack of respect it gets in the mainstream.
But what makes this observation interesting is that their is also an undercurrent of clubiness (sic?) about the whole thing. The idea that the masses could actually start using Linux is troubling to this group, as it would dilute the cachet of the club. This is bizarre to say the least, as mainstream adoption of Linux would only serve to achieve the first point, respect, and of course the other obsession, deflation of microsoft.
I don't take particular offense to the redneck comments, but you would really have to be an idiot to think that only rednecks shop at Walmart. I mean, christ, they have over $200b in sales. I guess the only thing that would make you a bigger idiot is to not understand how many personal computers are sold in the US annually, and how many of them go through channels like walmart.
Awesome. The dawning of a new era.
Now Desktop Linux has to improve further (I'd say it's around 30% to 60% of the way to be usable as general purpose consumer OS; installation is just a minor aspect), more software makers should offer Linux versions, and more computer retailers should join, with choices of better distros.
And distro makers should not sell the illusion of selling Windows clones; it's far more frustrating for the user to use Linux as Windows, than to use it as Unix, thus learning and adapting to the new concepts. I think Desktop Linux should try to be itself, not disguise itself as cheap Windows or Mac OS X clone. In fact, this strategy, which is intensifying these months, could kill Desktop Linux. If people want Windows, they can use it, if they want Mac OS X, they can use that; why use Linux then?
Linux should advertise it's unique strengths, and concentrate on fixing it's unique weaknesses as a young desktop OS.
peace, love, respect
Selling bare bones computers with various linux distro's isn't new to my area. Many stores advertise their inexpensive systems in the paper with a small disclaimer (this system ships with linux not windows xp). I imagine Walmart will follow suit with these companies and try and sell most of it's customers the upgraded version with windows installed. However for those who don't take the upgrade I have to say I am a little nervous of having thousands of people associate all *nix systems with one that is fresh out of beta.
Hey! *I* shop at Wal*Mart and I'm a Silicon Valley multi-millionaire (with no dirty dotcom dollars)!
I'm no red-neck, I just don't like to get ripped off paying too much.
--
Ask the Ya-Hoot Oracle Anything!
Oh, and before I forget. I choose dueling. Pistols at dawn assholes. You're fucking stupid, because YOU ARE CRACKERS/PECKERWOODS/WHITEYS/ANDHONKIES TOO. If you're white, then this is what you are to the most blacks out there stupid ass.
IANAL, but I thought there was a law saying that a company can't use a "trademark - 1" (meaning changing one letter or adding/removing one letter) name for a product. Anyone have any insight into this?
All Your Memory Are Belong To Java
The only way Lindows is going to catch on with the 'necks is if you can run one of the Big Game Hunter or Super Bass Fishing games on it.
Mark my words.
Go on, mark 'em! I dare you!
Can I still make fun of Republicans?
Well, I guess I have to pick another line of work now. Before you know it every one (red necks included) will be getting thier linux at WalMart and I will be out of a job.
I can hear it now, "Honey I'm starting an I-S-P right here in our Livin' room. Jest as soon as I can figure out how to edit all these miss files". (thats MS. for the humor impared)
Yes, its prejudice. However, the term can mean more than one thing. In this use, I think it means more of a "people who dont know much about this sorta thing" than the typical redneck remark. Doesn't make it right, of course. But, not as bad as everyone is making it out to be. Besides, they couldn't pass this up because of one little remark, it is something I'm sure we all want to know. Most of us, at least. It's cool. maybe I'll try Lindows out myself.
Question
http://www.ironfroggy.com/
Sorny?
Panaphonix?
Magnetbox?
If I ran a Fortune 500 shop I'd have OpenBSD running on all the servers, either Slackware or FreeBSD on the techies' workstations, and SuSE on the muggles' computers. If the PHPs insisted on Windows; I'd let them have it, and delegate Windows support onto the most imcompetent MCSE I can find.
I wouldn't fuck around with Lindows; the fact that its CEO used to run MP3.com is enough of a turn-off.
But I think this is really not a good name. Lindows may be a combination of names, but it sounds like a knockoff of Windows. If you saw brand of foam toys called "Norf", would you think it was trying to succeed on its own or that it was a knockoff of Nerf?
Likewise, this name on the shelves makes Lindows, and in turn Linux, sound like a knockoff of Windows, because it is directly comparing itself to Windows. Some people already have trouble grasping that the Mac OS and Linux (if they've heard of it) aren't kinds of Windows.
I wonder if this product being on the shelves in Wal-Mart (among lots of non-techies) will do good or harm. Hopefully it won't damage the Linux name.
mark
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe. -- Carl Sagan
This is pretty ironic. You have to already have a computer to buy one? Most people who would buy a low end system like these probably don't already own a computer (besides the geeks here) and are looking for a cheap way to get one.
On a side note, I think Lindows will fail and make Linux look like crap to the general public.
When you click for more info on the systems some of the details listed are: Microsoft? PowerPoint? Viewer, Microsoft? Word? Viewer, Microsoft? Excel? Maybe the webpage folk should have spoken to the hardware folk a little more before making this public.
Creationists are a lot like zombies. Slow, but powerful and numerous. And they all want to eat our brains.
JoeBob is gonna knock ma's car of its blocks when Bass Fish'n wont load...
I wonder how many customers will try the "Click and run" apps (Many popular opensource packages there) and decide that they are extremely happy with them, minimizing the need to install Winblows software.
Gamecompatibility scares me, though.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Dammit, I live not 30 minutes from Walmart corporate headquarters. And let me say something. If you're shopping at Walmart, your either a hick, a redneck, or just cheap. While there are many "normal" people who shop at Walmart, the "Bubba" stereotype is not misapplied.
Walmart was made be a REDNECK for REDNECKS! The company is still owned by REDNECKS!!! And something else? I go to a University full or REDNECKS that Walmart loves to give money to.
So THERE!!!
Lindows is currently beta. When it goes GA, will the WalMart customers get a free upgrade? Anyone know anything about the licensing regarding this?
I'm all for going to Lindows, especially if it'll run *all* the Windows apps I currently use. If they're not getting 100% compatibility, they're going to lose customers.
Cruising the internet on my TI-99/4A @ a whopping 300 baud!
For Wal-Mart to be using their power and credibility to position Lindows like this - as a direct alternative to a "commoditized" Windows OS - should be making MS shake in their boots. This is really big. I hope that this is more than just an experiment but a whole-hearted effort to introduce and market these systems to the average shopper.
Previously, Linux and other alternatives have been positioned as being too disimilar to Windows for the average consumer to take notice. While early adopters and niche users may see the differences as the key selling points, the average consumer is looking for compatibility and familiarity FIRST, then other advantages SECOND (price, stability, and misc. features).
Wal-Mart's actions not only position alternative operating systems in a different light, they also serve to re-position Windows itself by making the Windows Operating System appear to be a commodity like the PC has long been. When advertising the compatibility of Lindows, their enormous market power allow them to be more liberal with their use of the Microsoft and Windows brandnames than your average software developer or computer retailer could ever chance.
This is may be very analogous to what happened to the IBM PC vs. the clones as well as the situation with generic drugs. Many continue to buy the "genuine" branded article, but others will take personal pride in buying the "same" product for less - and maybe even with some different or better features thrown in for free.
This might be a first step in fragmenting the market around a common Windows compatible "standard" offered by multiple vendors at competitive prices. Also, it could result in opening more people's eyes to the advantages of using non-Windows based systems to meet their individual needs. I imagine that the reality will be somewhere in the middle, and that this will be a good thing for both consumers and business.
My next sig will be ready soon, but friends can beat the rush!
To think of the legions of rednecks who could now possibly be running Lindows instead of Windows
Could you be more condescending?
~jeff
Wrong distro.
Everyone knows it's RedHat that has the Redneck language option. (Even if it's just for the installer.)
-Z
You have violated Robot's Rules of Order and will be asked to leave the future immediately.
Same question I ask whenever someone brings up Lindows: Why go half-way with Lindows when you can go all the way with Linux?
Dude, it does not matter if Lindows if really ready or not, Walmart says it is how one uses a computer. Walmart is a 800 ton gorilla. This is a huge day for linux. So many people will be exposd to this. So many kids who otherwise would not be exposed to a truly powerful, Unix-like OS are now going to get it for $600. This is so awesome.
Lindows......I remember several years ago - oh what was it called.....O thats right
OS2 WARP V4
- it ran "most" windows programs too
but who knows maybe lindows will back there product longer than big blue did theirs
Ave Molech Setting
I suggested this last time the subject came up and was told they couldn't/wouldn't do it because of the support issue. Looks like it can be done after all. At least now it will be much more likely that the hardware in the box really does support Linux. Lindows is an interesting twist I hadn't expected.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
I agree with a previous poster who is upset for dissing on wal-mart.. Wal-Mart is a wonderful store.
I mean they offer dirt cheap prices!
The most important part thoe is when you walk into a wal-mart you are greeted by a 90 year old guy on oxygen and with a walker that says "welcome to walmart can i help you?" in some crazy i'm about to die voice and of course your like no no no its ok thanks anway and quickly walk away so you won't get whatever he has
Now you tell me, who else is gonna give that man a job? NO ONE thats right.. not small local businesses either.. go wal-mart! helping the people who can't walk or breathe one store at a time!!
If this gets modded any higher, I'm going to leave the country.
I think the EULA for Internet Explorer stats that you need a valid Windows licens.
Sure you can run it without but that would violate the EULA, and that is actually illegal.
Just because you don't like Microsoft, it doesn't make it okay to break the law.
So who is going to make sure that Lindows users don't install IE ?
From the IE EULA
1. GRANT OF LICENSE. The SOFTWARE PRODUCT is licensed as follows:
* Installation and Use. Microsoft grants you the right to install and use copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT on your computers running validly licensed copies of the operating system for which the SOFTWARE PRODUCT was designed [e.g., Windows(r) 95; Windows NT(r), Windows 3.x, Macintosh, etc.].
(Okay this is from IE 4.0, but I don't think they changed it alot).
Now I don't think that IE is designed for Lindows. Well perhaps no one will think of the idea of installing IE, let's hope so.
I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was going to blame it on you.
alright damnit, enough is enough.
> Walmart isn't really rooted in the technology industry
utter bullshit.
Guess who has the largest *private* database in the world. (and is the SOLE reason that NCR Teradata is still alive) Wal-Mart (with somewhere around 130TB in thier Topend system)
Guess who has the largest single IMAP install in the world? Wal-Mart Guess who is (or was) Dell's Largest customer...Wal-Mart
Guess who employees over 1400 in house (not contractors) programmers (in a single location (ok, you can split hairs with SMWDC/DMGTC being seperate)...Wal-Mart
Guess which retail chain bet the bank on EDI before the next 6 largest guys even thought of it...Wal-Mart
With over 2500 stores and a sub 2 second transaction time to *all of them* , how the heck did you think they were *NOT* a technology based company!?
That crap about Wally world not being a technology company is baloney. Sam Walton bet the bank on computer technology when his rivals were still using paper invoices.
I would note that the decision to sell Lindows prob has nothing to do with Wal-Mart as a company, but a lot to do with what it's Buyers and Marketing dept think will sell. (To those who have never worked in the corporate side of retail, Buyers are the guys/gals who buy the things the company then sells to it's customers, they typically work out the deals, many retail firms use independant buyers, but Wally world (and a few, very few) other companies do it all in house)).
If someone really wants to know why they are selling Lindows, then ship off a message to president@wal-mart.com, The are quite good about responding, though I'm not sure what their answer will be.
About the crack about rednecks buying Lindows...what do you think the average demographic of a Wally world online customer is? I'm willing to bet it's not ma and pa kettle in podunk Arkansas.
--Tadghe, former WalMartian.
Bugs Bunny was right.
is that most people who buy computers at wal-mart are clueless, and 90% of the time, so are the salespeople. I think people won't even know they are getting something different, then be incredibly pissed when their spider solitare doesn't run on it.
Reason, free market capitalism, and individualism
This will be big news when the redneck can actually walk into a Walmart and see the Lindows computer on the shelf and put it in their cart.
Does anyone know if OpenOffice will be available on this? It would be a good start at reducing dependenc on MS Office. It also needs mozilla........
Bart: Don't be a sap dad. These are just crappy knock-offs.
Homer: I know a genuine 'Panaphonics' when I see one. And look, there's 'Magnet Box' and 'Sorny'!
Salesman: [walking up] Listen, I'm not going to lie to you. Those are all superior machines. But if you like to watch your TV, and I mean _really_ watch it, you want the Carnivale'. [shows Homer and Bart a TV very similar to their old one] It features two-pronged wall plug, pre-molded hand grip well, durable outer casing to prevent fallapart...]
Homer: Sold. You wrap it up, I'll start bringing in the pennies.
[3F11] Scenes from the Class Struggle in Springfield
I'll have to divorce my sister if she don't hurry and purchase me that newfangled Lindows machine...
I think the most interesting part of this is that now other stores selling computers will have to find ways of competing with these insanely low priced computers, and I think the first thing they'll do is throw out Windows. Although alot of people will disagree, I think ESR had a good point when he said that microsoft would be doomed when the cost of PC hardware dropped below that of Windows, and we're almost at that point already.
The prices are NOT that much better than a new dell, when bought under the right promotion. AND, walmart vs dell on technical support, hrm.
Machine that runs "almost all windows applications" or machine the runs windows applications?
----- LoboSoft specializes in Digital Language Lab
Within six months WalMart will join Dell in backing off from Linux on the desktop once they see that the boxes just won't sell to their customer set without Windows preinstalled.
The result of all this will be that the vast majority of the business market will only become further entrenched in their opinion that Linux makes a very nice low and mid-level server OS, but has too many problems to use on the desktop.
I find it interesting that /.ers see Microsoft as an evil corporation (for obvious reasons) and Wal-Mart as a champion of the people because they are selling Lindows boxes, even though Wal-Mart shamelessly exploits Maquiladora sweatshop labor, lies about it's products being made in the USA, and forces artists to censor their music, among other things.
At least the people Microsoft empoly get paid well.
No comment about Lindows, however this is a very good thing for the Linux community in general. Specifically, a lowish cost PC that is completely Linux Compatable - bonus.
...)
;)
Having to spec a PC for Linux is a pain. As someone who has always had problems with Modems & Video (ATI), I think that a widely available low cost PC that is pre-checked Linux compatable is great.
No modem problems - bonus
No problems with video - bonus
Lindows runs as roon - bogus (how about BSD guys? put on OpenOffice; Mozilla
Likely POS kit - bogus
cheap - bonus
widely available - bonus
Bonus 4
Bogus 2
I say, I'll get one next week
Can you even link to ONE comment posted that would support your position? Or are you just bullshitting because it's "cool" to slander geeks? Ahh, just as I thought.
as near as I can tell, Wal*Mart is not selling these in stores. so stereotypes aside, "legions of rednecks" are not going to be buying these computers.
legions of wannabe geeks will.
and then I realized I already have nine computers at home. Now if they offered it on T.V. and said the girl with the pretty smile was waiting to take my credit card info ... THEN I would be persuaded.
I've been wondering about this Click-n-Run thing they've got going, where you click a web link to install software packages (like Apache) on your computer. Some you have to pay for, some are free. One of the requirements, they say, is that you are running the browser that came with Lindows -- presumably because there is some sort of extension they've put on to support it.
Now, doesn't this seem terribly insecure to anyone else? Allowing web pages to install software onto your computer is the sort of thing Windows does, and Linux doesn't, and I'm happy for that distinction. Does anyone (any Lindows insiders, maybe?) have any more info on this?
Managed to sneak a pretty good troll in, didn't you?
Grow up. Now there's going to be two people on my 'ignore' list. Katz is the other one. Nice to know you've been lumped in with that moron, eh? What's next, movie reviews?
Rest in peace. You deserve it.
...not that I'm a pirate.. Hell I've never even fired a cannon. - oldwolf13
Rednecks only watch it for the crashes.
Eloi are stupid, throw morlocks at them!
I would think a company like WM could handle the /. effect. No?
Some of us were smart/lucky two or three years ago and decided to go back to get our masters and phds.
If you are a consultant or in house IT staff, than in all actuality you are just another laborer. The premium that a geek could recieve from the market has been going down down down. For example look at the article Cisco qualifications ain't what they used to be . The average CCIE salary went down 21% last year. Geeks are now just the loser guy that fixes the damn computer.
ok folks, just remember that Wal-mart is the world's largest company.
What exactly is the American fascination with WalMart? You people have a real hard-on for it, and I've never been able to figure out why. WalMart came to Canada a few years ago -- and it looks prety much like any other cheap retailer of crappy consumer goods and cheap made-in-Singapore "fashions".
Can anyone explain this to me?
What makes so many of you think this is a good thing? Walmart isn't making this move in order to support OSS or promote Linux. They're doing it to sell cheap computers. They couldn't care less about Linux.
What I see happening is a bunch of people buying these Lindows boxes believing that they can run any Windows software on it. When they find out this is not the case, they'll blame Linux/Lindows. Then they will have a (albeit misguided) distaste for Linux and be convinced that MS is the only way to go.
I don't see this as any kind of victory. I see it as a disaster waiting to happen.
Now we have a steady supply of pre-assembled, Linux-compatible computers for $299. Who can complain about that? If these machines run Lindows, they'll run our favorite Linux distribution too. How well, I don't know, but at least drivers exist for all the hardware.
Wal-Mart has a very interesting information systems infrastructure. They have a huge database that tracks everything you buy with a credit card or check. They keep records of how much cornflakes you buy, what magazines you like, or how often you buy condoms. People might say that other merchants do this as well, but no one can do it on the scale of Wal-Mart. It's almost impossible to get by in some places without going to Wal-Mart to buy the things you need. And so Wal-Mart is in the perfect position to know how you live.
If you want to live in your politically correct bubble, why don't you go into politics so you can steal more of my money?
Hey, I'm not going all "PC" on y'all (pun intended), but instead of "redneck", think "your grandmother and/or your mother". I know Walmart is a popular hangout for the bumbles of the world, but they have a really long reach in terms of mass-market retail access. They are, for all intents, the Sears Roebuck of this generation. Everyone goes to Walmart at some point. If you want our favorite GPL operating system going to the masses, this is the way to make it happen.
Now, if Target would just do the same thing with a slightly upscale ($50 increase), neatly-designed case in the fashion of most of their homegrown goods, we'd really be in business.
Amateurs discuss tactics. Professionals discuss logistics.
How can it? It's not even released yet! It'll crash or do "funny" things on most apps anyone tries to run. And Walmart customers won't be as forgiving as /. readers.
It'll come off as a pile of sh*t and without doubt cause more harm to the Linux community.
Oh well.
Will it never end? I use to buy PCs, remove the junk OS, and install Linux. Now I get the chance to buy a PC with a junk Linux on it, wipe it and install a good distro. Seems more like a lateral move than an upward one.
.
-- I care not for your foolish signatures.
And not for the legions of rednecks. But if I were a redneck parent or teacher at a school with a small IT budget, I'd be over at Walmart for the 850MHz Duron in a New York minute and get the truck loaded. At $299 and no Microsoft tax, one could even get a few extras for trash-on-break tech support. Hell, I might even buy a few and spread them around the house as email/web stations, MP3 players and use up all the old monitors I was thinking about throwing away for five years. Another good thing about Walmart is that they are far less annoying about returns replacements than the BestBuys of this world.
well at my store it's usually filled with dumb ass niggers...
for the majority of the consumers they won't know the difference between windows and lindows, and in all fairness the sales person at wal-mart probably won't either.....
--fetch daddy's blue fright wig, i must be handsome when i release my rage
you could just tell them it IS working as well as windows when it doesn't run the applications.
Remember when Dell offered Linux on 'selected configurations'?
They arranged their site so as to make side-by-side comparisons of Linux/Windows configurations difficult, and for good reason. The Linux configurations always gave you less hardware for more money (including the OS) than the closest Windows-based configurations. Dell support for Linux? A big fat lie.
Well, the Wal-Mart Microtek pages are a completely different story. You get 1 page with all the no-OS systems and another with all the Lindows-based systems. Not only do the Lindows-based systems cost the same as comparable 'naked' systems, they actually seem a little more current on the hardware. The $598 Lindows box has a 1.8GHz P4 compared to a 1.6GHz P4 on the $599 naked box. So, if you're not happy with the choice of Lindows, it looks like at least it's not costing you anything. Replace it with RH, Mdk, etc. At least you know the hardware is supported.
In other words, it looks like Wal-Mart's support for Linux is real, unlike Dell, which was either
1. Jumping on the Linux bandwagon to preempt IBM.
2. Providing a 'no monopoly' fig leaf for MS at a high point in their anti-trust trial.
Either way, Dell was definitely setting Linux up to look bad. And then they pulled it from the market citing 'lack of demand'. Hell, you don't even see Linux mentioned for servers any more in Dell catalogs, despite the recent RH/Dell/Oracle announcement. No friend in Dell. And unless you can convice me otherwise, an outight enemy (despite the disingenuous lip service).
Before MS Office 98 or so, MS had all the same problems that you are describing and you know what, people still used it. The only reason to use ms office is because everyone else uses it.
Even if the file formats were 100% compatable, people would still use MS office because it is what ever one else is doing.
Annual revenue from SEC filings:
Microsoft $25 Billion
Walmart $217 Billion
Muahaha!!
it is and always has been cool to slander geeks and it will continue to be for the simple reason that geeks are strange
/. a while back advocating the use of userfriendly's geekfinder which i checked out
... be very afraid
not just a little wierd, i mean *really* strange. example - there was a post on
a post from a girl whose geek code seemed compatible drew my attention and as i read i became convinced she was worth contacting - one line really got me, something about clothing being a thermoregulatory device. awesome. the last sentence went something like this "I am also a hardcore leather pervert."
now this sort of thing might be your cup of tea, or she might have been telling a (funny!) joke 'cause I laughed my ass off, but i believe she was not kidding.
geeks - be afraid
I doubt the target audience for these machines is shelling out $$$ for Office. I'm sure they'd love to have a cheap computer that will run a "borrowed" copy, though.
That is: no mention at all of Linux.They sell "Lindows" as "Easy UNIX". Having people try alternative OSs is a good thing anyway. Let's see how it turns out, it looks exciting to me so far.
Cheers,
Don Inodoro
Let's take a technically superior OS and try to sell the fact that it's able to run most of microsoft's crap.
Where have I heard that before?
You guys are as fickle as a dumb blond. Yesterday it was "blast Bioware they arent supporting Linux out of the box" and now its "Blast Wal-mart FOR trying to support a Linux distro"! Which is it guys? I mean, COME OFF IT! You dont REALLY want Linux to be mainstream, do you? No, I didnt think so. If you did, you'd be WILLING to help "J Bubba Jr." to not only install his mouse, but actually RUN a program or two on his new l33t machine! Instead, 99% of you are pissy. Why?? A MAJOR RETAILER (like it or not, they ARE) is selling a LINUX COMPUTER. CHEAP TOO! It doesnt make sense. Or is it just because you're starting to realize that if EVERYONE switches to linux, you'll no longer be l33t hax0rs??
This is my sig. Its pathetic.
Help fight continental drift.
I wonder how long it will take for Microsoft to start using code that foils Wine...
I think that Wal-Mart just wanted a throwaway OS to mount on these machines. I predict that 80 percent of them will be running a pirated copy of Win within 48 hours of purchase.
They stab it with their steely knives,
But they just can't kill the beast.
What I'm curious about is the tech support issue. It seems to me that by offering a Lindows pre-installed PC, it's now in Wal*Mart's interest to see Lindows be as stable as possible and as compatable with Windows applications as possible.
Does anyone suppose they plan to help out Lindows development if, say, the next version of some popular Windows software doesn't work with Lindows? Now that would really impress me. (And then I'd think about buying one of these boxes.)
Why?
The key argument is 'JOHNNY IDIOT DOESNT NO HOW 2 THAT HE CANT INSTALL OMG OMG NEED 2 CHECK OS REQUIREMENTS WTF!!!'
Make sense? No, it doesn't. In ages past, people had no problem figuring out that their Mac or MS Windows PC couldn't run the other's software. The fact that Lindows is aiming for compatability with actual MS Windows software makes this even less of a problem.
You know what the average Wal-mart computer buyer will want to do? Check their e-mail, maybe surf the web a little, drink a cool Coors 16 ouncer on the weekends while using the box to play mp3s.
Lindows can allow all of that.
I'm glad I didn't stop shopping at Wal-mart when all the K-mart people here were whining about how Wal-mart used unfair business practices/etc.
when buyers learn it won't run all the apps they expect it to.
A legion of rednecks? Where? 6000 rednecks could only mean a country or bluegrass concert is near by!?!?!?!?! Run for the hills... Run for your lives!!!!
What's worse, is it's gonna be a bunch of rednecks running as root!
New Linux Game Ports!
Deer Hunter 5
Nascar 2003
Now everyone can be 3l337 (funny program)
Even if you are right, the next version of MS Office won't run on Lindows anyway.
All this is well and good, but I have a feeling that Linux is just not ready for the average consumer. From what I've seen most newbies have a really hard time figuring out Linux even just to get simple tasks done.
Another problem is that we'll be seeing a lot of unsecured Linux boxen hooked up to the Internet. The average consumer is not going to be downloading the latest security updates--he or she probably doesn't even know what they are, let alone where to download them and how to apply them.
Maybe that would make a good open-source project--a program that automatically administrates a Linux-based computer. It would manage Internet security, watch the log files, and periodically ask to download updates.
Customer: What's this here 'Lindows' thingy on this here computer?
Clerk: Um...I guess it's just like Windows. It sounds like "Windows".
Trolls lurk everywhere. Mod them down.
With RH7.3, I'm going to take a wild assumption and take a guess this person was using KDE3. How could you NOT find the taskbar? It's that large bar at the bottom with buttons that change when you mouse over them? By default, the taskbar is glaring on a RH7.3 install of KDE3, and at the bottom, just like in Windows. Either this person really is stupid, or it wasn't a default install of KDE3.
What about all of us that work the phones at an ISP? Where I work we have about 100k users. A good portion of those bought their computers at Wal-Mart.
Users have enough trouble running Windows, so Lindows will just confuse them even more.
Where am I going and why am I in this handbasket?
And furthermore, even IF a bunch of rednecks shop at Wal-Mart, thats okay. Rednecks buy computers too, and their money is just as green as anyone's, which is what it takes to get more companies writing software and drivers for *nix.
Don't moderate flamebait as Troll. Know the difference or you will be Meta-moderated.
Hehe..."If there is hope, it lies within the proles." -George Orwell, 1984
Damn! According to the so-called "conventional wisdom" of ZDnet, Gartner, Mindcraft and the rest of those paid Microsoft shills (including Asscrack's DoJ), there must be Mach-3 supersonic pigs screaming through the raging ice-storms down in Hell today.
There's suddenly an affordable, easily usable by Joe and Jane SixPack, and completely Microsoft free PC on sale to even ordinary consumers! Eric Raymond's prophecy is realized much earlier than anyone might have thought. He even nailed the price point at $300. Few people who buy these PCs will shell out as much or more for Microsoft Office since it already comes with OpenOffice all loaded up and ready to use. This is just awesome. Right on, Eric! It's all downhill for Microsoft now; they're done, dead, gone.
Wal-Mart's cheap (but good enough) consumer PCs will force Dell, HPQ, and other vendors to match their price, which they won't be able to do with Windows and Office preloaded. They will simply have to offer Microsoft-free PCs to compete, or they'll lose marketshare. And that's more important to them than their former subservience to Microsoft. Look for Dell, HPQ, even IBM PCs sprouting Linux or Lindows real soon. Hopefully after you manage to sell any Microsoft stock you might have in your portfolio.
I'm telling all my non-37337 relatives and friends to jump on this before Wal-Mart sells out all their stock and/or recognizes the tremendous demand and raises their prices. Shee-it, a $300 Internet-ready, M$-Office compatible, multimedia PC? Anyone who doesn't have a fast and capable machine already is going to want one of these things, if only because it's the price of a game console and can do so much more! Amazing, great, wonderful, all those things. Microsoft is toast, their stranglehold on the PC is broken.
I don't get this joke.How about: concurrency is welcomed in this case?
We have a monopolist who can play the god and the bad weather.
Would you nowadays skip a popular taiwaneese pcs in favor
of the original IBM AT?
For all of you out there that are worried about whether some poor innocent PC user is going to pick up this Walmart PC/Lindows combo and become totally befuddled with this new fangled Linux thing and just be turned off to the whole idea, I'd like to just point one thing out: it's only available on the web. If someone is actually shopping at Walmart's web site it shows they already have some computer savvyness. The ONLY place I've heard about this is on linux-related sites. This isn't being marketed to everyone. It's not like they've got demos of linux PC's in aisle 10.
That being said, I am surpised that it's Lindows that's being used. It's in beta for one thing. Despite the claims for running Windows software, I'd almost rather they put Lycoris or even Mandrake on these computers just so that there aren't any dillusions of Win32 compatablility.
Who said Freedom was Fair?
Will it still ship with Wine? Will they have to rename it MoonShine for better acceptance?
Sean.OutaHere()
For another example of snobbery, see also Iowa Court May Order Microsoft Refunds.
I guess if we don't all buy our gear exclusively online or live in a congested, polluted urban area, we're not worthy.
For all its faults, Walmart sure stands out in some areas. Where else can you go at 3 AM to buy a computer peripheral, and be able to choose from a fairly wide selection too? And I feel a lot better about trying to return something to Wallyworld than any 'elite' online dealer.
Apparently Lindows is based on BSD Linux. Major misprint or what people have been asking for for a while (BSD/Linux would be BSD userland + Linux kernel, as opposed to GNU/Linux which is GNU OS + Linux kernel)?
It does answer the licencing questions - I recall Apple saying that the reason why BASH wasn't shipped as the Mac OS X shell was because it would then become a major component of the operating system and arguably the GPL licence would then apply to the entire distribution.
OTOH, it could be a typo.
KMSMA (WWBD?)
"To think of the legions of rednecks who could now possibly be running Lindows instead of Windows..."
how long until we see front lawns adorned with motherboard-less cases resting on cinderblocks???
dude.
every OSS word processor I've used has opened my MS word documents fine--until I turned on the spellchecker.
For some unknown reason, it treats *every* puncuation character that isn't on the keyboard as an alphanumeric character, not a space. Until this is fixed (or it learns how to deal with em-dashes and single-character elipsis properly), OpenOffice et al will simply be unusable.
If you go to their website, the only link to download the OS asks you to pay $99. Since most of their stuff should be based on Linux, I would expect to see sources somewhere on the Net. Ok so they only have to give source to their customers, but if they did someone should have already posted it. Where is RMS when we need him? :-)
By the way, did anyone else think about Redhat install? It mentions that the first NLS translation of the setup program was for Redneck. Wonder if that project was preserved for posterity.
Neither will the current one
I use Office 2k with Codeweavers and it works great, but AFAIK OfficeXP support is some way off.
XJS*C4JDBQADN1.NSBN3*2IDNEN*GTUBE-STANDARD-ANTI-U
is it just me or is that the twin towers in that first screen shot? a bit inappropriate eh?
Top Matches for "lindows" If that's any indication how they're selling them in brick & mortar stores, expect a lot of pissed of people returning them. The text of the ad states Monitor not included! in bold, but only says 'Lindows OS' I doubt the average Walmart computer shopper is going to understand exactly what they're buying here, or even notice that it's not a windows PC.
Great. Dump Microsoft but patronize Wal-Mart. Which is worse?
for those of you who dont know walmart is a company that spawned from arkansas. the same place who brought you bill clinton. while i'm sure many of you are enjoying yourselves making fun of the ``rednecks'', consider the following:
many of you shop there.
currently the waltons (son's and daughters of sam so to speak) have more money than gates and ellison combined.
all this was made by a redneck without a college education. hell i dont even think he had a highschool education.
it's nice to see that by getting educated and growing up in a civilized society you all (y'all if you like) have become tolerant understanding people forgoing prejudice towards your fellow human beings.
-- john
One little detail about that Duron (although it's probably not a big detail) is that they left out the floppy drive on that model.
With bootable CD-ROMs and networks not having a floppy is not a big problem, but for the first-timer this could be a big problem.
Oh yeah, Fry's is entering the $300 market soon...actually sub-$300. They will be putting out a Celeron 1GHz machine, preloaded with ThizLinux, whatever the fsck that is. They're just waiting on the shipment at this point. And this one *has* a floppy drive.
Actually it would be better if they all did preloads with Lycoris Linux but still, it is a good thing that Walmart has the guts to do this. So far, Microsoft hasn't complained. I think they realize that even an 800lb. Gorilla like MS has to pick their battles.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
One of the fundamental principles of software
develpment is that you can't find all the
sticky problems until you get real users
using the thing.
Consider Mozilla: progress was slow until
the 0.9.x milestones, then all of a sudden
it was good enough that a lot of users who
tried it liked it enough to start using it
as their regular browser, and whammo, the
bugs started dropping like flies, and it
shaped up incredibly in just a few weeks.
Same thing with Linux. Technical excellence
aside, it was nowhere near ready for the
typical end user until quite recently, but
as the user base spreads beyond developers
to end users, amazing strides are made in
its _usability_ for end users. There's a
breaking point somewhere, where enough
users adopt a piece of software that the
bugs show up and can be fixed. You don't
reach that point without early adopters.
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
$498.00 - Microsoft Windows, 1.3 GHz Celeron, 128 Meg RAM, 40 GB hard drive 52X cdrom, ethernet, modem
$399.00 - Lindows, 1.3 GHz Celeron, 128 Meg RAM, 40 GB hard drive 52X cdrom, ethernet, modem
Did I miss anything? The Windows machine mentions something about the graphics card, but it's "integrated" (not an AGP card), so both machines probably have the same video on the motherboard?? Is that a reasonable assumption?
Looks like there's a reason Bill's so rich...
PJRC: Electronic Projects, 8051 Microcontroller Tools
This reminds me a lot of when SLS came out long ago.
They started producing several rather misleading advertisements to get people to buy the thing. Features that were not even realistic at the time.
I know people personally who fell for it, and when the product didn't deliver to their expectations, the statement was 'well , Linux Sux'.. Understandably so, but of course not accurate.. which took some time to explain the reality of the situation.
Luckily this didn't go too far outside the community so long term damage to our image didn't occur..
I can see the same thing happening now, only on a *much* larger scale,( they are the largest retailer in America ) and putting us back years in the goal of desktop acceptability. ( the final hurdle ).
I will debate that we are ready for the business desktop, but nowhere near even hoping to pretend we are ready for the general consumer market. Not yet..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I live in a redneck/hick town. I don't think of myself as better than my neighbors. I have sold computers to several of them, though. All of them want nothing more than to run an old version of Quicken to manage the books for the dairy, Word Perfect 6.0 to type letters to their grand kids, and Printshop to make birthday cards. There were a few exceptions: some of them had kids who wanted to play Star Craft and Half-Life, and one person needed to run the latest QuickBooks to handle payroll for his construction business. Most people can do anything they already do in Windows, with Linux.
The problem for me, however, was that I was 16/17 at the time I was selling these computers, living at home. I got all my referrals from my mom, since she knew the people. She has seen me coding in a Linux console, and after seeing that, started spreading anti-Linux FUD to all the people she was referring to me ("He'll build you a great computer, but he'll try to put Linux on it -- don't let him do that."). I found this out when people started specifically asking NOT to have Linux on their machines (though I've never sold a Linux machine to anyone). Star Craft and Half-Life both run under WineX.
What's the point of this rambling? If you are young and live at home, make sure your parents don't spread Linux FUD, and if you are older, make sure your wife doesn't spread Linux FUD, and if you're old and single, well, get out more. But the real moral of the story is: most people don't need Windows, or even the apps they're used to. Give them a few of their staple apps, such as Star Craft, Quicken, Word, and then fill in the rest with Open Source software, and slowly convert them away from their staple apps (and convert game programmers away from their staple OS). This is exactly what Lindows is doing.
Some people think Lindows will take over Linux and become a Linux monopoly, others think Lindows will just act as the gateway into a new world of software. Whatever. See above for the point of this disjointed, redundant rambling.
A solution to the problem with music today
Is your Office 2k with Codeweavers stable enough to be sure that you don't need to save you text in say Word every 5 minutes? (I don't mean that I don't save changes, but sometimes it is covenient not to save changes that often.)
I spoke too soon...maybe those sub-$300 Linux Celerons at Fry's won't come with Lycoris, but you can pick up a copy there soon.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
I'd say you were crazy.
...what will stop MS from taking the Apple route against folks who clone their GUI?
Or have they tried and been shot down?
Just seems like an avenue with precedent that MS could begin pursuing, especially since Lindows is an unabashed copy and now professional competition...but of course, I'm pretty darn ignorant and Walmart does have a whole bunch of lawyers keeping an eye out on this stuff...
"I ain't got no flyin' shoes."
Thats just damn kewl. Now EVERY embreeding motherfucker will have a Lindows box.
I wouldn't be any more confident with Office2k running on Win2k. MSOffice has always been a little more buggy than any other competitor going all the way back to Win16 days.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
While I am gad to see that nonMicrosoft platforms are being sent out to people that would otherwise not use them I am offended by the way this submitted used sent this article.
This elitist tone used in the article is not only common with Slashdot regulars but with the Open Source community in general. If the community is to grow outside it's niche bounds there will be the need for some people to get the "US Vs the ignorant" out of their way of thinking.
Can we quote you in a year?
Many of us will probably ending up providing support for these things. Although not the method that we would have chosen, it's partially up to us whether this is a windfall for Linux or for Microsoft.
At the very least this will force some consumers to learn the difference between an OS and a computer. And in the long run, that could be a great thing because it might sponsor competition.
Oh and I guess Apple were real innovators when they stole their UI from xerox
When all the thrifty, but clueless soccer Moms think it's such a great deal. They buy a Lindows box for thier kids and spend the $100 savings on video games.
It is a good deal, however the Lindows name sounds to much like that "Other OS" and there is going to be a lot of confusion. I fear that Linux will be given a bad rep as cheap bargin software.
>
Here's my origial post, in response to somebody commenting that Walmart should be taken down:
"Did it occur to you that the reason people go to Walmart is because it's cheap and convenient? They didn't put a musket to anybody's head.
When I was a teenager, I had a friend that had 3 bros and 3 sis's. They *needed* WalMart to survive. If they had cheap computers running Lindows for cheap, then they'd have been able to get on the net."
Some idiot moderator modded me down as flamebait!! I don't see why!
I guess you can tell somebody pushed a hot-button with me. You'd be uspet too if your best friend was barely able to survive in this world because his family was too large. You can hate Walmart for their business practices, but they are one of the few places that my friend's family was forced to shop at because they had little money.
"Derp de derp."
those guys make Nike, or M$, look like altruists. I've already sworn off Wal-Mart and Sam's club.
Just a little bit of research will bring the Wal-Mart horror stories to light.
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
I hope they go to the HURD and not the BSD's. Slashbots are the lowest form of life on Earth.
A large number of people here seem to think that the world should be Windows OR *nux. All or nothing. The reality is that some of us simply need to use one or more Windows programs to get our job done. Sometimes it is extremely difficult to swim upstream. I find it ironic that so many /.ers have adopted Bill's attitude- You run all MS or nothing.In this case it is *nix or nothing.
One of the basic tenets of this crowd (I thought) is one of choice. But it seems one is somehow deficient if he/she chooses windows AND *nix. (Refer back to my first comment). The world simply is not black and white.
Lindows (and others) allow the opportunity to use the best of both worlds. Re-booting is simply too much time lost and too inconvenient. Obviously Lindows (and others) are works in progress. How long has it taken Bill to get some kind of reliability? (Whether that is by design or simply fortune is another question) Yet Lindows is quickly dismissed because it MAY not work?
It's all about choice. Choice will compel software to improve.
There is another choice one has to make: pay or not to pay. The reality is, bills have to be paid.
Lindows is not afree download.To establish a MAJOR presence in the desktop *nix software will have to be available through retail channels. This takes money. Better programs will evolve. Not everyone WANTS to tinker with the damn thing! Just install and go! If they can do that they will gladly pay.Personally, I just want a choice.
Or you can download free software to most of what you want to do. But it still boils down to CHOICE! If you think everything should be given to you, move to North Korea.
The mentality here seems to run from gifted to barely breathing. Some of the Wal-mart comments here and southerners (implied, mostly) are funny. And authors of some of the other comments are really struggling. But there is a huge difference between joking about stereotypes and believing these comments.
I was born south of the I-10. I live south of the I-10. (no, not Florida or California) I don't own a pickup OR a dog. I have 3 vehicles (all paid for by me): an RX-7, a Jeep and a big-assed sailboat. And if I spoke with you over the phone you would glean nothing from my accent (or lack of). I do shop in Wal-mart. Also in Neiman-Marcus. Stereotypes are fine. Just don't believe in them.
(This sig has been removed at the request of the patent holder for Sigs.)
I've been toying with the idea of buying a bare bones and putting some distro on it, but it looks like Wally did it for me...SWEET! After I play around with actually doing linux admin stuff and using the GUI, I'll probably re-install another distro so I can learn how to do that.
...I know all you battle-worn *nix users will poo-poo this whole thing as 'redneck', but for people like me who are green and want to learn, it's mana baby!
Still gotta get the ps2distro and play with that though! I wanna be the first kid on the block with my own DBZ game.
At least that is what Walmart is calling it in Japan so it gets pronounced properly.
Yes, I am a redneck WITH a farmer's tan. What's it to ya?
But the important thing was they stole it first. That's innovation. Before them, stealing was wrong.
First off, I work in the shipping and recieving department for Walmart's online venture. This has been a somewhat storied start here in the company, let me tell you (my best friend is in the marketing department and does product testing and write ups as well as consults on all things that are considered electronic). The decision to go forward with this boiled down to a phone call between the Marketing and Product Aquisition director and the CEO.
Apparently the entire department from the top down was against selling the computers with an OS at all, especially the admitedly difficult to use and limited Lindows linux. Our return rate on pc's sold online has been relatively low, with about a 1 in 42 return rate (that's good in comparison to other stores in fact). Several post sales enquiries and surveys revealed (of course, you know this can be skewed anyway you want them to) that most people were installing MS products and were absolute novices with their only computer experience steming from either college or work. About 3% were installing OSs other than windows based on our numbers generated internally and we had about a 48% response vector from all parties quiried (not a bad response either).
We are cringing... while it's not a bad os, most people just won't get it and we expect (in fact project into our return merch budget) a 1 in 5 ration on those systems shipping with Lindows to novice users and an overall return rate hike to 1 in 27 machines.
The closest Walmart to me is in Marlton, NJ. Marlton is a neighborhood none of you open sores slashbots could even dream of being able to afford.
...to get a cablemodem/dsl line installed.. last time I told an installer I had linux, he ran out the door screaming..
hawk
Has M$ sent the BSA to Wal-Mart headquarters to audit licenses?
What has happened to Wal-Mart's cost on M$ products?
Maybe the ongoing lawsuit will keep them from pulling one of their tricks... I doubt it...
I had a sucky sig.
My, how things changed. They've given their website a total facelift, which now looks MUCH more professional. Stuff like this:
Clicking the "Install LindowsOS" button will automatically copy over your Outlook® email so that it can be read by the Mail program in LindowsOS. It will also copy over your bookmark files so they can still find your favorite web sites with the Browser included with LindowsOS. (Your Outlook mail and bookmarks will remain in their current location as well. Only a copy is moved to LindowsOS.) If you have a lot of mail or bookmarks, this may take a few seconds. Then you'll get a screen informing you that you need to restart your computer.
Sometimes I think they've taken the Windows clone approach too far. It can (apparently) run IE/Notes and Word, which is impressive, but there will be things, especially games, that it'll barf on. Also the fact that it runs as root all the time is just a cop-out, they could have used something like kdesu to make that unnecessary. Ah well.... a good attempt though, I'm glad somebodies doing it.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I just cancelled my order for a similar system (the original no OS series) and ordered one of these. I couldn't give a rat's ass about Lindows (I'll install Mandrake) but these new systems have 2 (instead of 1) serial ports and built in ethernet. The older system came with a CDRW drive instead of CDROM (and were $100 more expensive) but that's something I probably want to pick out myself as an addon anyway.
To think of the legions of rednecks who could now possibly be running Lindows instead of Windows...
This redneck uses Debian and has done so for a long time. Thank you very much!
I gave up thinking of a cool sig
Someone needs to include a pack-in automobile window sticker that features the image of Tux urinating on a Microsoft logo.
Come on, laugh. It's funny.
From the list:
Software includes Mail, Word Processor, Web Browser/ File Manager, Address Book, Calculator, CD Player, MP3 Player, Microsoft? PowerPoint? Viewer, Microsoft? Word? Viewer, Microsoft? Excel? Viewer, Image Viewer
I love the generic names for the software. Do you use Word or Word Perfect? No, I use 'Word Processor'.
And the question marks after Microsoft... is that because they don't know and are asking the customer, or because it's not immediatly known if it's a microsoft product the purchasing guys put in these things.
The Internet is generally stupid
Perhaps Slashdot should interview the president of Wal-Mart.
JET Program: see Japan, meet intere
Why go all the way to Linux if you can go half-way with Lindows and have everything you want?
... that wasn't your point?
Oh, wait
Sorry.
Kevin
:)
hawk
<conspiracy_theory>
My paranoid self is thinking this might even be some sort of weird conspiracy crafted by Microsoft and Wal-Mart to completely discredit Linux by offering it to the unwashed masses who need a spellcheck to log in and installing it on the dodgiest hardware known to the planet and then blame all the problems on Linux instead of crap hardware and ignorance of computing. A few things to consider.
C'mon, a loaded up
AMD 850 for US$300?
Lindows, AFAIK, doesn't offer the source code, and could very well be clandestinely operated by Microsoft (which could explain Lindows ability to run Win programs)
This
lawsuit could very well be propaganda to fool the public in thinking these 2 forces are opposed to each other.
The default Lindows install could come with ftp, telnet, http, etc. all open, unsecured, and ready to r007, thus further damaging Linux's repuation.
Just wait till $consumer deals with file permissions... "What? Whaddaya mean I don't have permission to open that file!?! I own this computer and it's my property, dammit! No one tells me what to do with my property!!!"
</conspiracy_theory>
Okay, I'll stop before I start feeling the urge to make an aluminum foil helmet
/*drunk.. fix later*/
Most of those soldiers wanted to protect their homes and families, not slavery and racism, however if you want to fly a Confederate flag, fly one that hasn't been co-opted by racists.
Sorry about the off-topic rant.
WalMart can decide to sell or not sell whatever they want. If the artists don't want to compromise their 'vision' they certainly aren't forced to ... oh, but that means they won't get all that filthy money that those bastards at WalMart can get them.
:)
I think what you meant to say is that artists who censor themselves to get WalMart sized numbers are selling out
Kevin
Um, why did your mom think Linux was eeeeeeeeevill just from seeing you use it? Why would anyone? I don't understand. (kudos for recognizing that your users just need a basic box to DO things with, by the way!)
Freedom: "I won't!"
About ten years ago I worked at a Fortune 500 company that made minicomputers with a proprietary OS and was starting to move into PC products hosted on XENIX.
The extent of UNIX penetration into the desktop mainstream was a topic of constant discussion
One day, Radio Shack announced that they would be selling UNIX-based systems. The announcement was widely carried as a news item in the trade press, often with deep-think commentary. Highly placed UNIX advocates within the company started circulating memos mentioning it, and in almost any conference-room discussion someone would say "It's all changed, haven't you heard, why even Radio Shack is selling UNIX now."
So I did a reality check.
About three months after the announcement, I walked into a Radio Shack. Not one of your mall stores, but one of the big Radio Shack Computer Centers or whatever they were called. I said I wanted to try out one of their UNIX systems hands-on, and I wanted a catalog showing what software they had for it.
After glad-handing me and assuring me that, yes, indeed, Radio Shack was backing UNIX to the hilt, they showed me their UNIX system.
Yes, they did have one.
It was a PC running XENIX. It was not turned on. They would not turn it on for me, because the only person who knew how to use it was a consultant who came in one day a week. There were no brochures, no sales material.
The only software catalog was their general PC software catalog, which had about 32 densely packed pages of (mostly) DOS-based software, several pages of Windows-based packages, and finally about four column-inches of UNIX offerings, most of which were UNIX itself. There were, I think, one or two Accounts Receivables packages and so forth.
It wasn't exactly untrue that Radio Shack was selling UNIX, but it certainly didn't mean what people thought it meant.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
Lots of kids are going to be doing their homework on those boxes. This is Microsoft's greatest fear - OS price competition at retail.
If there is demand to run the next version of Office, maybe the next version of Lindows will make that possible.
Now Wal-Mart has everything on selling crappy products, they even have Lindows on cheaply built PCs now!
i was waiting for that.
perhaps you could fill in for the slashdot editors. your time doesnt appear to be worth much.
It's sort of depressing to see just how elitist/bourgeois/classist many of these comments are, especially those concerning these so-called "rednecks" who shop at Wal-Mart. I mean, isn't one of the "great things" about Linux, and GNU in general, the ideal that operating systems, software and information in general "want to be free"? Or that people shouldn't have to pay $100-400+ for a modern operating system? Or that Linux and Open Source software is revolutionary, capable of breaking the grasp that Microsoft holds over the CONSUMER market? So now you have Wal-Mart, a major retailer, offering complete machines with an OS and a number of useful applications at a price that is lower than the MSRP for the full version of Windows XP Pro. And rather than cheering about how this could potentially be a major opportunity for a Linux distribution to make signficant inroads with the CONSUMER market (remember the revolution?), many respondents have sought to portray the people who will purchase these systems as ignorant, foolish, uneducated, and/or intellectually inferior. Wow, what happened to all the populist ideals above?
Your Maquiladora link was bad. It went to some sort of Stalinist crypto-Sandinista anti-Nicaragua site.
As for the music, it is Wal-Mart's choice if they don't want to sell bad music. That is not censorship in any way at all.
"At least the people Microsoft empoly get paid well."
And the people of Wal-Mart are paid the value of their work. That is how it should be.
"I've already sworn off Wal-Mart and Sam's club.
Just a little bit of research will bring the Wal-Mart horror stories to light"
I've done the research myself. Makes Wal-Mart look better. Many of their "enemies" are union thugs who want to force walmart workers into unions against their will, and land-nazis who want to keep Wal-Mart out even though the community wants them in.
The union thugs are actually running political anti-Walmart web sites using money stolen from workers.
Hope Sam is looking down happily as the company opens hundreds and hundreds more of them!
Remember when Mexico was supposed to switch over to Linux, or something like that, and they screwed it up. Now MS uses this as a reason to not use Open Source Software, it fails implementation. Of course, all software that is poorly implemented will fail, but that's not the software's fault.
Now that Walmart is selling these Lindows machines I see a similar problem. Joe User buys a computer, but he can't run half the apps his friend can run, like games. He takes the computer back to Walmart, gets his money back and swears the Lindows sucks. So now in his mind Lindows sucks and anything that sounds like Lindows (i.e. Linux) sucks too. After a couple of months Walmart will get tired of giving people their money back and stop selling computers with Lindows installed. Now it's not just a failure on Walmart, but on Lindows which in turn is a failure for Linux and the Open Source community.
Hence MS now has more fuel for their fud campaigns. I don't see this as a winning situation for Linux or OSS.
Most Americans shop at Walmart and they will sell a lot of these computers. This really looks bad to me, really bad.
On the other hand, I don't really care if Linux "beats" MS. I like my Debian whether Joe Shmoe does or not.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Whut about a be-yow-wulf cluster of them thar machines, Mary-Jo-Jim-Bob?
Whut? Dang you Billie Bob yew startin to sound like some dot-commie-city-slicker
WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
> About the crack about rednecks buying Lindows...what do you think
> the average demographic of a Wally world online customer is? I'm
> willing to bet it's not ma and pa kettle in podunk Arkansas.
College students and suburbanites mostly, I think...
But the point of the original redneck remark was that people
who buy computers at Wall-Mart are not tech-savvy users, and
that's true, as a general rule. Tech-savvy users buy their
computers from small shops that build them, or they build
them themselves, or they shop around. In any case they
usually don't buy the true bargain-basement stuff, because
they're planning to upgrade components as necessary and keep
the thing running for several years, or if not it's because
they can afford a new (nice) computer every year or so.
These are power users.
People who buy computers at Wall-Mart are end users.
These are overgeneralisations, of course, but in general
they are mostly true. Redneck is not the word I would
have chosen, but the point made is valid. Think about
droves of people buying these things who previously
were not aware that Apple computers don't use Windows
and had never heard of Linux, much less anything more
obscure than that, and have no idea that Windows XP
is based on NT ("huh?") rather than the consumer Windows
line. Whether that makes them rednecks or just regular
people in some field other than IT, the point is that
they're not computer geeks. They're end users.
End user awareness that there are various operating
systems to choose from is a good thing.
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
"They force the suppliers they have to produce products off shore to make them cheaper."
:)
No, they just buy from suppliers that provide the better deal. Even if they are of those evil foreign races, Mr. Pat Buchanan.
"5 of the 10 richest people are Waltons."
Good for them. They deserve it.
"Wal-Mart IS the Evil Empire and are destroying America one Super Center at a time"
You have them confused with nukes.
"Don't shop at Wal-Mart of Sam's Club."
I will even more after reading your rant
Who here is going to be first to buy one and review it for us?
PS: I love that there is no floppy on the low-end model.
- Eric, InvisibleRobot.com
Is it propriatary? Is it GPL? I can't find any info.
Use cash. Get over it. Everyone's known that if you use a check or credit card the company will do something with the info. It's been this way for decades.
"probably move to a real distro."
Think a little bit. These are not computer geeks buying these $300 PCs. These are people who just want to use this machine as a tool, to get from point A to point B, as opposed to a hot-rod they can drag race on a saturday night.
These people are going to do just as little as possible to operate these machines. They certainly aren't going to reinstall their OS, because they're NEVER GOING TO KNOW HOW.
What's going to make this a disaster for linux, is when their kids buys a game, and wants to play it, and can't. Most people don't care about their OS. Unless it can't run their applications. Then they CARE. And they'll do what's necessary to get their apps running, ie. finding someone who can reinstall their computer with an OS that can run their game. You want to tell me what the name of that OS is? C'mon, I know you can.
Yes! It's Windows.
Lindows still lacks an nt compatible kernel.
An nt kernel actually exists and is called reactos, the only altetnative to microsoft windows. Despite the great appeal of an nt clone, the project has proceded slowly. There is also a possible threat of patents infringements.Too bad, as Reactos+ wine is going to be a windows killer. Any programmer willing to help speed up this project, check the official reactos website:
http://www.reactos.com
Walmart.com contributes to less than 0.1% of Walmart's 220Billion revenue, of which less than 4% comes from PC sales, of which maybe around 20% comes Microteck PC sales, of which maybe 50% come from OS-less/Lindows sales of which 80% may actually have Linux/Windows
Doing a quick & dirty math, I get a high end figure of
220,000 * 0.001 * 0.04 * 0.2 * 0.5 * 0.8
or 0.7 million dollars in sales or maybe around 1450 PC's. For Linux those maybe huge numbers, but remember their are 600 Million PC's in the world
Put it another way, Microtek doesn't sell any more number of PC's than an average white-box seller
Time for reality check & perspective
Roshan
"but it's good to see your system is just as effective at ultimately giving every person access to techology regardless of market-driven restrictions"
It looks like this is going well within the restrictions of the market. How would it work otherwise?
Seriously, the people spreading around this anti-capitalistic B.S. are the ones really destroying America.
People do vote with their dollars, and obviously, the majority are voting for large chains like Circuit City, WalMart, McDonalds, and many others. All of these began as a small business-owner's dream. (Or wait, did you think McDonalds just appeared one day with millions of restaurants and billions of dollars in advertising revenue?)
Now, I'll be the first to say that part of being a "smart shopper", "educated consumer", or whatever term you prefer - is learning to buy from the stores with the best prices AND service. That means when I need something specialized (like computer parts), I'd rather deal with a store that knows computers. Nonetheless, I shop at WalMart for misc. items. (I went there with my wife 2 days ago and we bought a couple of cake pans, some business-casual clothes for her to wear to her new job, and a couple baby items.)
I have been running their latest version of "Sneak Preview X" and all I can say is that this OS is full of bugs and holes! It is based on Debian and Wine. But, there are tons of problems with video, networking, and hardware. The only Windows programs that I have gotten to successfully run is Word and Excel. No other Windows software will even install. (Even though Lindows claims that you can run tons of programmes!). They have been telling the Insiders all along that this product isn't even beta yet (it is just in the "Sneak Preview" phase). Yet, here they turn around and start selling copies to "Cletus the Slack-Jawed Yokel" at Walmart. This is going to be a complete and utter failure for Lindows. And unfortunately, this will be the first impression that many of these people will have of Linux. This may sour them completely.
Every Lp space is an L1 module? Free? Projective? Stably free? Injective?
Some programmers drink Jolt.
You are a troll!
know teckst
Funny you should metion this. I went to the
store to pick up some cheap (99 cent)batteries, and I fould a few AA batteries whick look
like Duracells. I didn't bother to check
the batteries, so I just paid for them and
went home. Upon closer inspection, the
batteries were actualy named
Durasell. They even have a fake "Powercheck"
battery tester on the skin of the bettery!
Funny thing is, I compaired one of them to a real
durecell battery, and they have the same maling address printed on them. The moral of the story
is *always* check out the product before you buy.
In my experience I have seen people put up with stuff that is much worse if it is cheaper in any way.
"Is there any kind of polling or feedback - especially any whos results are public - to see what customers think about this?"
Sure, see if WalMart still has this deal going in six months. If they keep selling Lindows PCs, then the sales are high enough and customer complaints are low enough to make it worthwhile. If they discontinue the program, then it was vice versa. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and nothing is more public that a discontinued product line.
The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. - Mark Twain
Is it me or does Walmart have some crazy fetish for disguising Linux as Windows? First they (poorly) hack the Apache version string to make it appear they're running IIS (on... Unix) then they sell a Windows-like operating system that's actually Linux. Obviously someone has some serious issues to be ironed out.
Even if you are right, the next version of MS Office won't run on Lindows anyway.
You may be right, but it would be very cool if the Microsoft divisions followed the footsteps of IBM. "Don't tell us not to support that other OS! Our customers want X and your OS preference policy is costing us sales!"
A dingo ate my sig...
You bunch of bigoted *ssholes. Did you ever stop to think that your "high and mighty" technological snobbery might be the cause of the lack of widespread adoption you like to yammer on about so much.
I got into technology to share it with other people, not to fill a personal void of inadequacy that some of you seem to revel in.
(http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/10.07/Myth.htm l)
and here is a nice little quote: "Consider a tale of two companies. Wal-Mart is among the most efficient corporations in the world today. In fact, a late-2001 McKinsey Global Institute study of the boom found that "Wal-Mart directly and indirectly caused the bulk of the productivity acceleration" in its category. How? Information technology, for the most part. Wal-Mart uses IT to help it store and transport goods more efficiently. (You'll never find a half-full pallet in a Wal-Mart.) It relies on forecasting tools to ensure that there are never too few or too many employees on the floor at any one time. It encourages suppliers to stock the stores themselves, using an elaborate data interchange system to make sure suppliers know when inventories are running low. And it takes advantage of economies of scale by building stores in a hub-and-spoke pattern around giant distribution centers. As a result, Wal-Mart has become one of the largest companies in the world while earning returns on capital that are the envy of its peers. By contrast, its competitor Kmart has been plagued with stock-outs and is hooked on sales and markdowns."
Heck, at $299 each, It might be fun to pick a few of these up to play with (or even actually do work).
Can You Say Linux? I Knew That You Could.
The mind boggles at the concept of a RedNeck focussed Linux distro. Not exactly what the story is talking about, but a freaky idea anyway.
Now that Linux is the *primary* OS on these machines, what would MS say if Walmart were to offer a dual boot option?
Yeah...tech-savy poeple may build their own, but unless you live in a cave, chances are you know non-tech-savy people.
And once they find out that you are, they will most likely ask for advice when buying a new computer.
So in a way, it's in wal-marts best interest to make sure that even the tech-savy people will recommend the Microtel's instead of "Dude...get a dell."
Then again last time someone asked my opinion, they didn't listen and got yanked. Best Buy salesman actually sold them virus software when they had the same software at home already on their now-very-dead computer.
"This exciting new OS delivers the stability of UNIX with the ease of Windows and the ability to run most Microsoft programs."
Maybe I'm wrong here but isn't the claim (which in on the Wal-Mart page was BOLDED) that it runs MOST Microsoft programs is false?
I haven't tried Lindows but even if it runs the most advanced WINE that statment is in error.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
...that you're probably right.
Lindows/Linux, whatever you want to call it... it will never be a desktop enviroment for more than a sliver of people. Furthermore, any hardware that costs $300 is useless for anything other than Palm-Pilot type tasks.
They'll sell a mediocre amount of PC's with Lindows, and it will do jack squat for the Linux and/or Linux gaming community. It'll also confuse the consumer, which is an utter moron when it comes to purchasing hardware or software-- especially at a WalMart. What it may do, is force PC makers who sell Windows to rethink their strategy. They're being bullied into selling Windows, and it costs them big bucks.
Don't get me wrong, here. I like WalMart. I like the idea of a cheap, usable computer. I don't dislike the average person's reasons for buying a computer... but this will utterly fail. Linux is the polar opposite of a beginner's OS.
"Politicians find new names for institutions which under old names have become odious to the people."
They need to ship each one of these Lindows PCs with this game pre-installed.
What is an A-shirt? Is that the same thing as a wife-beater?
cpeterso
Wal-mart will only buy products if they can get them less then other retailers. MS will not give them a price "break".
Point in fact, walmaert has ahistory of red penciling the compaines they buy there products for, and has made some of them sell to walmart at less then cost to manufacture. That means the manufacturer must find a way to lower there costs, usually be paying there workerer in non-US markets less.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
UNIX is a trademark of the Open Group.
http://www.unix-systems.org/
Lindows isn't registered as having anything to do with UNIX, so why is Wal-Mart advertising it as such?
Besides I'd think they would get more name recognition using the name Linux.
But you're right. The minute this system won't install and run Brittany Spears Dance Club Party... it'll get upgraded to Windows XP.
This could potential be great, but people who expect it to be exactly like Windows will be confused. If you know somebody who buys one of these, offer your time help them transition.
If you are in a LUG near a walmart, try to get the local walmart to allow you to post your meeting times so the people will have an avenue to help with the transition.
This is the only way something Open will get eyeballs. It is are PR and Marketing path. If you want Linux to be a copetitor to MS, then please try to help.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
"Now, I'll be the first to say that part of being a "smart shopper", "educated consumer", or whatever term you prefer - is learning to buy from the stores with the best prices AND service. "
even if they use slave labor?
even if the fire people for saying the word union?
even if the set people up, then fire them because they said something negative about the store?
even if it is considred one of the worse places to work for?
even if there insrance cost the employees almost as much as they make?
even if the define full time as 24 hours a week so people will take 2 years to become elligible?
even if they go into a town, charge less for all there products then the local merchants, then close down, leaving people no option but to drive 35 miles to the next city so they can shop at the only store left, walmart?
Man, I hope that baby you bought close for has more prinicples then you.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I'm in the market for a couple of cheap web-serving boxes, and strongly considered buying these machines. The price is certainly right, they're pre-built (I'm lazy and hate building from scratch), and I'd be certain drivers for Linux would already be available for all the hardware. Hell, they'd already be installed and configured! A little security work, install Apache, and voila! It's not NetBSD, but it'd be workable.
The only thing that stopped me was that these machines were slightly too low-end for me. The $500 unit with the Athlon XP1800+ would've worked nicely. The main problem is the default hard drive, a 40GB, 5400 RPM clunker. If I'd had the option to upgrade to a faster drive, I'd've grabbed 'em.
Nice try. Apple traded stock for the PARC stuff.
"Pirates of Silicon Valley" was a good movie, but that factiod was false.
(Sorry about the anonymous coward part - I'm in a hurry here. Earl)
Lots of people were willing to boycott Blizzard over their treatment of BnetD, why is not buying a PC at Walmart different?
People here want to take a stand for the greater good. If Walmart is doing unethical stuff, are you willing to buy their Lindows PC's?
"Derp de derp."
I know this a little off topic, but is Lindows Open Source or is it a proprietary OS? From what I gather on their website, the OS isn't free, and there's nothing that indicates that source or binaries are freely avail. WTF?
I can't wait till WalMart pulls the OS from their laptops lines. That'll be sweet.
or...
A PS-2 with the Linux kit put on...
Damn it.
Decisions, decisions.
hmm..
t_t_b
I'm on PJ's "enemies" list! Are you?
Uh. Doesn't anyone else see that this has nothing to do with Walmart taking on Microsoft, or Walmart sticking up for the Slashdot linux kiddies. It's not going to convert the unsuspecting rednecks (nice...) to Linux. It's not going to save the world, and I doubt that it will even make too many customers unhappy. It has everything to do with Walmart's bottom line, and that's it.
What Windows® applications will it run? Our goal is to run all Windows® software, however, that's an ambitious objective that will take time to achieve. Soon, LindowsOS users can expect to run a host of popular Windows® software titles. We'll make available a database of known useable applications in the near future. Watch as the list grows and we further enhance our Windows® compatibility features in the coming months. Stay tuned to the developments by joining our mailing list.
Wow! Now, instead of paying the microsoft tax, Wall-Mart will pocket it...
Screw the whackaloons who're too stupid to know what it is they're buying before they buy it.
Same goes for companies that want to use deception to sell their product.
The way I see it, both will get exactly what they deserve.
The only tool you've got against psychosis is experience.
I believe this is the result of a corporate poker game type situation.
WM rep: We don't want to pay $49 per copy of XP, we can only pay 25$.
MS Rep: $49 is the lowest our rates go. All the big distributors pay it. Dell, IBM, Compaq. You don't sell 1/20 the volume of them. You should be glad to get that rate.
WM rep: Give it to us at $25 or we wont even put on OS on them.
MS Rep: You can't do that, its illegal.
WM rep: Not in Europe.
So Wal-Mart was called and shipped with no OS. The reason they put Lindows on them now is that some people turned them on, called and tried to get help installing Windows/Linux/whatever. They put Lindows on and now the boxes are service by replacement. If they don't boot up correctly they send another. That's it, no other support needed.
Walmart is the largest retailer in the entire world, not some ma-and-pa operation run by people with six fingers. According to the Economist (not your typical redneck publication, though perhaps read by more "rednecks" than one might imagine), Walmart has spent the past 20 years revolutionizing retail, largely through IT. They do not make decisions like this lightly. (And if it doesn't work, it will just quietly disappear for a year or two, and then they will try again.)
Look at the ads: for a 2 Ghz Pentium 4 with 256 RAM and 40 Gb drive, the difference between the Lindows and Windows machines is $200! ($600 vs $800). And this comes with MS-Office installed if I'm reading the product description correctly. Walmart sees open source as a means of reducing the cost of their product by 25%: if it works, they sell many more machines (yes, Walmart is aware of demand elasticity).
As far as rednecks figuring out Lindows, ever look under the hood of your car? Rednecks can figure out that technology. To say nothing of mastering the technology involved in running methamphetamine labs. Even in a trailer park, there will be someone who can figure out Lindows (assuming the system can be figured out. Though like Windows is totally transparent, right?); that and the price difference should be enough to get these systems into play.
I surely hope that the good differences will be better than the bad differences, but what if the bad differences are worse than the good differences? — We're boned then...
Krótko: kady Erotomek
W pimiennictwie ma swój domek.
Linux Books on WalMart.com
I just cannot believe that you feel Walmart is doing this to "take a stab at selling Lindows computers." I'll tell you what this is about:
The almighty dollar.
Walmart does not care about Linux geeks clutching their little stuffed penguins and waving their "Open Source" flags. They do not care about someone who walks into a store to tell the tech department that they should sell machines with Linux on it. They care about money. They have always cared about money, and they always will care about money. They are the most efficient corporation in the whole world, and they are efficient because it makes money. Anyone who thinks that Walmart's #1 priority is not about money needs to take some courses in Economics, wake up, and smell the capitalism.
I've been working in the backstock rooms of Walmarts for three years now, and I've overheard the managers on quite a few occasions. Walmart demands cheap prices from their distributors. They're the #1 retailer in the US, so they have the power to do so. They lure distributors into their system by offering to sell thier product, then stab them in the back a year or two later and demand the product be cheaper, or they'll find someone else. This leads product manufacturers to use overseas labor and/or lower the quality of the product, all to stay buddies with Walmart. When you see the adds of Walmart lowering their prices, they can do so because its not their company that takes a hit in profits...it's the manufacturers that do.
I'm sure Walmart did the same thing with this Microtel company when they asked for computers. When Microtel was put under the gun to make a cheaper computer, I'm sure they cut every single corner. Just look at it from a $$$ perspective..."Hey Walmart, we got this OS that looks like Windows, runs like Windows, and can run %90 of Windows software, but we can put it on every machine for absolutely no charge!"...Walmart will say yes, because they now have a "Windows-ish" computer that sells for $100 less than the competition.
And for those of you who say that there might be a high-return rate? Walmart doesn't care. If people return their computers, all Walmart has to do is box it up and ship it back to Microtel. The only loss that they take is paying some 16-year old $2 to take the time to box it back up and stick it on a pallet. It's certainly worth their time, considering that these computers are %10-%20 cheaper than the competition. If it fails, Walmart returns the computers, Walmart dumps Microtel and finds another manufacturer, and Microtel goes belly-up, and Walmart leaves unscathed. If it's a success, Walmart gets the credit.
Wake up and smell the dollar bills.
It's too bad that Microsoft's monopoly is so taken for granted that normal old fashioned competition even merits a story. Competition is how the free market is supposed to work. I wonder why so many fat, rich Republicans are against a free market. They are against competition and the consumer. The irony is that the Republicans believe in corporate socialism at the expense of the individual.
Yeah, quoting wealthy commie rock stars!!
Fuck RATM!!
Fuck Communism!!
Power to me
haha, you seem to think they aern't intrested in entrenching thier monopoly further.
Unfortunatly they seem to have this problem, even though they have already been found guilty, they are going to probably get away clean as a whistle.
According to this story, it is indeed true that a large motorcycle gang uses Linux, and is infact willing to beat people up to protect Linux developers. From the story:
"I was running from the gun nuts and the police, and was running down the middle of the street in a panic. I thought it couldn't possibly get worse. I look up and it's a freakin million bikers wearing gang colors, coming right at me. The guy asks me why I'm runnin' and I tell him that they're trying to kill us because we're into Linux. This dude, the meanest, most evil-looking dude I ever saw in my life looks at me and says 'sheeeit, Linux? I run Red Hat on my linux box" and nods to the dude next to him. Turns out that the chief enforcer for the gang had met Linus Torvalds at Sturgis way back years ago. Linus turned him on to Red Hat, and he's been writing GNU software ever since."
Why bother.
Wow, the largest retail chain in the world selling PCs with Linux (sorta) preinstalled? You'd think that'd be cause for celebration, right? Not at Slashdot. Instead, it's cause for derision and jokes about Deer Hunter. And you people wonder why Linux is percieved as a toy for l337 15-year-olds by many computer users. All you snobby children who think you're Billy Badass because you burned a Red Hat ISO 6 months ago, please go find something else to fuel your imagined sense of superiority. We don't want you.
why every thinks that Office is the best suite.
I mean why? Why is that true, I think we are all brainwashed to think that. I really don't think that it's the best, just that there is no alternitive people are willing to use. Mostly because of the file format thing.
This is really tempting cuz I really want my own Beowulf Cluster of these puppies! <pain>moan</pain>
Isn't it true that most /.'ers have a pet project that requires a disposable PC?
m.mmm..myyy
(2,3-Benzopyrrole)
Is Lindows still telling users to always log in as root and use no password?
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
Guess it depends on what you want to do on your PC.. but I can't see Lindows making as good an impression as the 'real mcoy' would make.
This isn't a kick at Lindows - I haven't tried it out yet, but I do really want to - and I really admire that they have had the guts to have a go at a project like this..
Its just that for the average 'redneck user', Lindows just wont be Windows. You wont be able to play all your games, and you wont be able to run all your apps.. I wish it was possible to have perfect cross compatability but hey-ho..
It'll be interesting to see what happens though..
"Hey! Unless this is a nude love-in, get the hell off my property!!"
Okay, so my response to the flamebait challenge here was modded down as redundant. Whoever modded me down apparently didn't see that other people, though they don't feel the same way I do about Walmart, disagreed with the moderation.
Let me explain something to you moderators who modded me down: Just because my opinion goes against the general flow, doesn't mean that it is flamebait or that I'm being a troll. It's called 'disagreeing'. I'm not sure where you guys are from, but in the USA it's perfectly okay to disagree on matters, even if the topic is controversial. Flamebait is when you say something intended to draw harsh replies. In my case, though it could have drawn flames, but it didn't. The fact that people responded kindly to it indicates that I am correct.
Here's an example of flamebait: "Linux sucks. Windows 2000 is so much better!"
Here's an example if disagreement: "I prefer Windows 2000 over Linux because I can do this, this, and that."
The difference is not that subtle. If you can reasonbly back up your points, like I did in my original post, then you're not trolling or creating flame bait.
As for being redundant: I don't see how this post could be considered redundant. That's definitely one of the wierder moderations I've had recently. This moderation was pretty retarded. Again, I'll point out that other people in this thread have expressed that the original moderation was bad. So what happens? My post challenging it is redundant.
*Sigh* Oh well, I doubt the moderator will look back at this post and give me some sort of explanation. Worse, I doubt I'll accept his answer. For the most part, moderations of my posts are pretty decent. This time, it was just lame.
This isn't about karma. This is about fairness.
"Derp de derp."
To the moderator who modded down the start of this thread as flamebait, I have to say this:
FUCK YOU idiot.
THere, now you have some flame bait.
Why don't you go do some real moderation instead of modding a guy down who's making an interesting point. It's people like you who make people link to goatse.cx.
With all due respect, wtf are you talking about? Okay, I could see maybe, if a bunch of Lindows machines got compromised, M$ might try to run a (small) FUD campaign on it, but other than that...
It's not like there's any way that these Lindows boxes could be any *less* secure than standard Windows, right? In addition, as long as the Lindows machines are significantly in the minority (and even if the program is highly successful, they will be in the minority for a long time), it will be easier for all the virii/worm writers to keep on targetting Windows like normal.
Furry cows moo and decompress.
For the price they want for the final version ($99 I believe), I wonder how this is going to fair with consumers. I mean, I see Lindows on the shelf for $99 and the Windows XP Upgrade for $99 which one are they going to choose?
Let's see, I can get 100% compatibility and the exact interface I'm used to for $99. Or, I can get something that is "close enough" for $99.
Me thinks the average consumer is going to go with the brand name they trust. Too bad it's Microsoft.
My short tale of wonder and journey...
I'm trying to setup an e-commerce site (shopping cart, cheap (er, inexpensive hosting), simple website, etc), and have been looking for a free or VERY cheap shopping cart/e-commerce/credit card processing service.
And then I stumbled upon Redhat Interchange (http://interchange.redhat.com/). Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not a complete idiot on a computer. I've built systems from scratch. Installed countless version of Windows... and I even know what the BIOS is... but after downloading and installing Redhat 7.3 onto a spare P3 system (which installed quite nicely, I must admit (even had internet access)) I was completely unable to traverse the cryptic install/users guides that are available for Interchange.
Granted, Interchange doesn't look to be geared towards Joe-Average-Computer-User... but the documentation for installation just doesn't cut it at all. As I would think I'm their intended audience... ie, someone that knows a computer, wants to get into e-commerce, etc.
Here is an impression of the Redhat Interchange install documentation: "1. Install. 2. Configure as needed. 3. Make Money!!!"
The average (or above average, in my case) user who is new to Linux will have no idea how to configure this in a meaningful manner. And that is a shame.
From the looks of it, I'm think I'll end up using Miva Merchant (http://www.miva.com/products/merchant/)... but my goal of a completely non-proprietary software/inexpensive site will not happen.
Linux is nowhere near ready for general consumer usage, period. Hell, the average user of a Windows PC has no idea what the "Control Panel" is... let alone what "eth0" has to do with surfing the internet.
But, then again, perhaps I'm overestimating my computer acumen.
All things have a potential for good or bad. Simply put.
:).
If there is to be the software revolution for the consumer, the consumer is going to have to be the one to make the choice and must have the option readily available.
Desktop pre-installs of Lindows is doing just that. It is putting an alternative in front of the economic power base that must make the choice of acception or rejection.
Despite what it seems, marketing and product sales
is the one field that is controlled by the common person and not the high level wealth. Why else would you have millions paid for Nascar or motorbike sponsorships? Bus panels for public transit?
Potential harm to Linux on the whole? Limite in my views. As far as I understand, Lindows is being advertised not as Microsoft Windows or as a Linux distribution, but as a growing bridge between them.
This could very well be a wake up call to software manufacturers. Or it could very well be another software tombstone. Risk.
I have yet to try Lindows. But I would not that there would be proprietary workarounds for some of X's quirks.
Let's just see. Hey, after all, MSDOS and Windows
were built off of someone else's work. Look what we have now
did every failure to miss the "no floppy drive included" along with a monitor, theres also no AGP slot. Looks like they didnt even use the crappy ecs motherboards that are dirt cheap....
Im still wonder why they couldnt fork over another dollar for a floppy drive
Wherever you live, you must have a better class of redneck. Here it's GutRot Lager, or premix rocketfuel and Coke.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
if they were going to install a pirated XP, they sell pC's with no operating system as well
than whats whos windows for?
I have you seen the clowns on techtv lately?
they almost make rednecks look good.
So fuck off. free country. go to france if you hate this concept.
http://www.lindows.com/lindows_products_categories . hp
Looks like they are planning to make a profit
by subscription service.
"All products free to Click-N-Run Wharehouse Members"
Most new users to linux won't bother learning
the traditional "configure-make-install" routine
and I think the plan to take advantage of this.
BeOS is being rebron as Bindows
/.
OS2 Warp as O'Windows
Windows as Winux
MacOS as Mac & Cheese
UNIX as Wunixos
Palm OS as Pindows
Windows fo bindows me manna fo fanna Windowssss....
;-P
PS The artist formerly known as Prince is changing his name to
I have no sig
...and I can tell you sir, it was a waste of my time!
Now excuse me while I kiss the sky.
Too many folks have gone to Walmart and purchased an XP machine for $800.00 (and had trouble with it) when all they want to do is connect to the internet, and send and receive e-mail, often to family members that are in another State, Town, Country, etc. Walmart has one of these microtel machines for $299.00. They better have tested it to see if it will surf and send email easily, and then they have a winner. Many of the machines are much more expensive than that, but these folks just want a new machine that does not require a lot of computer savy on their part to get it going. If they don't like lindows, they can get their serviceman to put Mandrake on it, or Redhat. Then Mozilla or Netscape communicator will handle the surfing and email just fine.
According to an artcle on NewsForge AOL runs on Wine 2.0.
Here is a screen shot with an AOL icon
Running AOL wins most of the user acceptance battle.
There just ain't no justice.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
I moved upstate NY, the middle of nowhere, when I got laid off from my post-internet, supposedly 'safer' *nix sysadmin job. I had bought 19 acres of farmland up here before the internet bubble burst, and I've been racking my brain trying to figure out how to stay up here full-time and still make a living. I'd love to not have to move to find a job. There's a Wal*Mart ten miles away, and I'd be happy to support their customers who need help! Where do I learn more about Lindows? (Thanks ./, btw, I had no idea about Lindows before reading this, even though I was in Wal*Mart two days ago.)
Get out to the country a bit more, guys. You might like the fresh air. Like any other group of people I've met, rednecks are fine unless they're drunks.
Actually, I suspect Walmart is going after the eMachines market, which was not aimed at gamers, but at middle-aged non-geeks who use a computer in a home-based business or for simple email and documents, or who may buy a second cheap computer for their kids' homework and chat habits. IOW it was not designed or sold as a gaming platform, but as an everyday usin' machine.
So I don't think games per se enter into it.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
And I guess Xerox PARC were real innovators when they stol their UI from Douglas Englebart.
-----
Score 3? For what? Being wrong, at length? - smirkleton
and lets not forget the fact that most of us have been raised into a society of burger-eating, hollywood-lovin, chris columbus-was-a- god, pathetic excuse for a world. Ever try to find out what goes into actually producing that burger? if you do, you most likely won't eat fast food again.
shopping at wal-mart for lindows is just a small piece of the pie.
I like you commieoeverlord. you dig anarchism or what?
_____ "If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." -- Orwell
Every competitor they've faced down, including the once mighty Kmart, has been summarily wiped from the planet... Since they're marketing Lindows systems, which makes Microsoft their chief competitor, does that mean they'll take out MS next? Would seem incredibly ironic, considering both companies have shown dubious and questionable business practices...
/.ers be praising Microsoft, or Walmart?
So when that next war comes down, will
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
Megan has massive thighs. That is hot.
A coworker of mine was saying how there was some kind of computer prize give away. When the prize winner was asked if she already had a computer she said yes, more than one . . . BUT, that her husband had installed Linux on all of them, BUT this computer was going to be HERS!!
What can I say . . . you gotta take the time to explain things to your family members (though, don't waste time with your parents . . . they won't believe it until it is on their favorite TV program . . . sad, ain`t it).
This is really the cruelty of MS, and its ilk. Fine, charge a lot for your OS because you can, distribute viruses, I will just quietly observing your misdeeds on my Linux box. However, BRAINWASHING my family members into thinking they are too stupid to use anything different IS NOT OKAY.
Being the most computer competent family member in my family, I strive to share the information technology revolution with my other family members. However, I am constantly having to speak over the FUD background noise that MS appears to constantly emit. I feel like I am trying teach my niece math while constantly having someone stand behind her whispering "MATH!? Forget MATH! Math is too hard and user unfriendly!! What you need is a husband! What YOU should be doing is practicing make-up!."
This is why MS must die.
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
The last story on these machines over at Newsforge was full of atta-boy posts for Walmart/Microtel. Lots of folks were pledging to put their money where their mouth is and getting a preloaded Linux machine from a major retailer.
These posts are nothing but really unfunny comments from stupid has-been tv stars and the frat boys who love them.
Free the West Memphis Three!
I think you have answered your own question.
Linux is a community, MS is a company. Not using the OS just because the community seems inconsistent, rude, snobby . . . is just a funny misstep in logic.
Let's say you LOVE U2. So, one day, you go to a U2 concert. You see a large crowd of U2 fans, and you cry out "I Love U2." This is a very simple communication to the community as a whole and, if you apply similar expectations that you are making on the "Linux crowd," then you would expect positive, clear feedback. Unfortunately, COMMUNITIES do not work this away. Some U2 fans might cheer you on, while others migh ignore you, while, still, others migh come over and beat your @ss for sounding gay (dumber things are known to have happened). The result is inconsistent, so you now decide you hate U2 (even though your experience has NOTHING to do with U2).
My point is, most of your Linux community communications will tend to be even more complex that "I love Linux." Therefore, you should expect even more chaotic reponses from different individuals in the community.
How about this . . . Assume that you are white. You have one black friend who constantly complains about being discriminated against. You have another black friend who constantly says that black people should not get special treatment for being black. Do you conclude that the black community is irrational!? Or do you conclude that "black" is not a legitimate factor in making assumptions about one`s views. Okay, now imagine that that friend was a Linux User.
Look at it this way . . . Linux is so inclusive that not only kind, carrying, nobel prize winner's use it, but also mean, cruel, dog kicking jerks use it as well. If you are going to use it, use it for your own reasons and stop trying to grasp what kind of "image" it will give you by observing other community members. Linux is not about image, it is about socio-economic progression (but if you don't like that explanation, there are a million other . . . pick one).
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
And you're right that there's often good stuff of value within that thread, tangentially related if at all. I'm going to give your suggestion a shot.
People who have a background in newsgroups seem to readily understand this distinction. Others don't. I was replying to a direct question and got tagged for it. That's really no big deal, though, because I've been moderated up for crap I didn't think was particularly insightful or interesting.
What a high Karma score really means is that people that what you've got to say is more important than background noise. However, as an earlier posted pointed out, it's a long hard struggle to rise above the noise in the first place (to get automagic score of 2) so people notice you, then the trip to 50 territory comes quickly.
Don't get me wrong, I think having some kind of moderation system is better than having dick. This one is far superior to anything else I've encountered (or can think of). No, it's not perfect, but it's not meant to be.
Oh, and off-topic to this thread, I'm gonna take a look at the Lindows PC offerings in my local Wal-Mart this afternoon. I'm glad to see that someone's willing to experiment (even if it is Wal-Mart), but I think it's doomed to fail because Wal-Mart isn't where you should go to buy computers - well, or anything else for that matter.
god if youre a comp sci major we are in fucking trouble. looks like I have had less trouble than you on linux , and I used to have trouble making a dual boot win 98/NT machine. jeez..
Ok, let's break down your accusations and take a closer look at them.
Slave labor? How do you define this one? Slavery hasn't existed in the U.S. for over 100 years, in the form most commonly recognized. I assume you're referring to WalMart hiring illegal immigrants? That happens everywhere, and really - I believe larger chains simply get caught more often, having so many stores and employees total. I know of several "mom and pop" restaurants in town that hire illegal aliens and pay them below minimum wage too. Lots of people consider these establishments to be "upper class" places for fine dining, too.
Fired for merely saying "Union"? Fired for saying negative things about the store? Guess what? Most states in the U.S. support "at will" employment. Unless you can show discrimination based on age, sex, race, or religion - you can quite legally and easily be fired for *any* other reason. I can be fired just because my boss doesn't like my car, my hairstyle, even on the first day of work - before I get a chance to work even 1 minute. Check with a lawyer specializing in "wrongful termination" if you don't believe me.
It may well be considered "one of the worst places to work" - but they sure do have lots of employees despite that. I'm betting WalMart *never* held a gun to anyone's head and forced them to apply for a position there. In fact, my wife used to work at WalMart for a while. She actually said it was a good experience, other than one manager that started long after she was already employed - who started giving her a hard time. (She asked the previous manager if she could have the Xmas holdiday off, well in advance, and he agreed. The new manager didn't... so she quit.)
Insurance should always be optional. An employer can't force you to buy their insurance plan. If it's a bad deal, just look into other options. (The insurance plan where I worked really sucked big ones. Several people opted out and bought their own personal plan that worked out better for their particular situation.)
Moving into a town and undercutting the competition happens all the time, too. It's bound to happen eventually, if everyone else charges more than the items really cost to obtain. I don't fault WalMart for being competitive. If you're a small business going up against a giant like WalMart, you need to do your research and *compete*. If you can't beat their pricing, fine - beat them in other areas. Maybe offer real low-priced home delivery of household goods and groceries. Maybe offer vastly superior customer service, so people don't want to shop at WalMart. Maybe offer extended hours. Lots of WalMart shoppers only go there because everything else is closed for the night!
If you buy one of these, then your computer will be susceptible on two fronts to that Linux/Windows cross-platform virus. Yet another reason why Lindows is a bad idea...
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
Apple PAID Xerox.
There were also many things that Apple put into their system that were not in the Xerox system. Things you take for granted like "when you move an overlapping window, the exposed areas of the windows underneath get repainted."
A character in Diablo 2 said it best:
Die. Die. Time to die. Die. Time to die. Time to die. Die. Time to die. Die. Die. Time to die. Time to die. Die. Thank you. Thanks.
Rednecks don't like computerz. Ass.
Also, I should note the motherboard used changes based on model. Not bad for a $299 PC with Linux!
JOhn
P.S. Big thanks to Rich at Microtel for the quick repsonse
Campaign for Liberty
Seems they have changed the wording of their ad a bit over time. It
no longer makes any claims about lindows ability to run windows apps.
There was an older ad which said lindows was a unix and could run most
windows apps but it cannot be accessed from the search engine built
into the walmart.com site. You only get this:
Microtel PCs with LindowsOS
The low cost alternative to computers preloaded with Microsoft
Windows. These PCs ship with an exciting new Linux based Operating
System (OS) named Lindows. This exciting new OS delivers the stability
of Linux with the ease of Windows and they include a trial membership
to a library of over 1,000 software programs so they can be outfitted
for any purpose whether business, home, or entertainment.
I admit you can't totally avoid this -- it's only human to break things down into categories. But it is simply lazy and bigoted to stick with an arrogant, prejudicial set of categories against all evidence, and to deny the many various humans you will meet in life the simple right to be individual people.