Abstracting up a layer never limits you in a certain situation to delve back down. I was commenting on the limitations of where and when the application can be used.
Jini is a spec, of which the contributed Sun implementation uses RMI. There are other implementations that do not use RMI, since it is not required. Part of the beauty of Jini is that it is protocol neutral... you bind to the service at the last possible moment - the proxy. Services are defined by API, as with Java you can move the code around.
Which is not so great when smaller devices have to spend cycles on parsing this. It's also extremely inefficient for transporting across the slower networks to small devices like cell-phones.
Not that I think JXTA is bad, the ideas are great and obviously people think highly of p2p as a next big thing but I don't like how JXTA defines "the bits on the wire" so to speak.
That all applications must take advantage of the native abilities.
In fact many don't need these. Very useful applications can and are being written. We work at a higher level, where we don't necessarily know where the application will be run - or we don't want to limit the possible uses.
There's a great project hosted at www.jini.org called Surrogate which basically provides an elegant mechanism for non-java or small java devices to connect and interact with Jini networks.
I'm heavily involved in using this at my company and we've used it with J2ME phones and Blackberries, and KVM pdas with great success.
Others have pointed this out but the cross platform nature is great. Creating an application for one device that works on others is great - saves time and money. Of course, you lose some capabilities because you abstract to a higher level.
So, I guess to answer your question: Yes, this stuff is being used, and used in unique and clever ways by a lot of people.
What you missed was not "optimizing to the underlying architecture..." which by the way I'm sure they did. I have no quibble with that point.
No, to have really hit the mark you might have pointed out that Microsoft removed certain VM security/sanity checks. Like runtime type checking in certain circumstances. These unsafe shortcuts are where a substantial amount of performance increases were realized.
Now, I will apologize for being sarcastic. Your post appeared to me to be the standard "Microsoft achieved X by doing great engineering technique Y." You have to admit, alot of trolls use that one.
Sure, MS deserves it, but it's not like Sun wouldn't be doing the same thing, should they be in MS's position.
What? The reason Sun and other companies aren't in MS's position is because they didn't do the same thing. Get it? Microsoft has used illegal tactics to get where they are, and they continue to use them to stay there. Sun isn't using illegal tactics, hence they're not in MS's position.
I've been to the zoo and I don't see how there's anywhere near 2 million species let alone 10 million. I would guess there might be no more than a few hundred.
There's been at least one AC troll laughing at the "moral" question raised here. But let's not forget civil disobedience.
I too feel there are many moral problems with copyright. If enough people share these beliefs, and we act on them (like downloading abandonware) then it's not as cut and dry as the publishers think. It's not "piracy" any more. It's enough people disagreeing with the law... implying that maybe, just maybe, the law is wrong.
Remember, laws are pieces of paper. Many of them have nothing to do with right or wrong anymore. They have much to do about money and greed and control.
You would open up your machine and allow mobile.NET code to execute on it? I'm not sure I would allow that with Java, which at least has been around for awhile and has a mature security model.
There's nothing new in this game, it could very easily be done with a JXTA or Jini framework.
As long as we're begging to differ... Jini did not start out as a "wireless or other device thing". It just happened the first demo was on a device and Sun marketing took that and ran. It was always about distributed services, of which devices are just one type.
I too followed the link to Cybercheeze's reply, and was fooled into thinking what a cool reply too. And then, I read the legal blurb on Cybercheeze's website about linking to them.
http://www.cybercheeze.com/info/logolink.html
It seems you can't link to them without using their logo. Does that make the above link illegal? I guess so. So while I liked the intent of Cybercheeze's reply, they're also pulling some lawyer crap of their own. Am I wrong? Is it illegal now to link to a site without permission?
Seriously, what's happening to our civilization when everything needs to be so regulated?
Yeah, but the distribution system IS the recording industry. They don't do recording, that's the responsibility of the artists. They handle the distribution and they have a lock on it. For now. That's why the internet scares them.
"...since they use microwave ovens to heat the food..."
Hmmm. Most of my meals come with sealed foil lids for the entree. Not saying they don't have microwaves, but maybe they don't use them as much as you think.
The JINI software libraries are available free, they can be distributed freely (under a license agreement) and if that's not enough for you, the specifications are open. Write your own. Pore through the source for the Sun implementations. All for free.
JINI failed as a device connection architecture for other reasons, but just not what mentioned.
Slashdot Mirror
Abstracting up a layer never limits you in a certain situation to delve back down. I was commenting on the limitations of where and when the application can be used.
Bill
Jini is a spec, of which the contributed Sun implementation uses RMI. There are other implementations that do not use RMI, since it is not required. Part of the beauty of Jini is that it is protocol neutral... you bind to the service at the last possible moment - the proxy. Services are defined by API, as with Java you can move the code around.
Bill
Which is not so great when smaller devices have to spend cycles on parsing this. It's also extremely inefficient for transporting across the slower networks to small devices like cell-phones.
Not that I think JXTA is bad, the ideas are great and obviously people think highly of p2p as a next big thing but I don't like how JXTA defines "the bits on the wire" so to speak.
Bill
That all applications must take advantage of the native abilities.
In fact many don't need these. Very useful applications can and are being written. We work at a higher level, where we don't necessarily know where the application will be run - or we don't want to limit the possible uses.
Bill
There's a great project hosted at www.jini.org called Surrogate which basically provides an elegant mechanism for non-java or small java devices to connect and interact with Jini networks.
I'm heavily involved in using this at my company and we've used it with J2ME phones and Blackberries, and KVM pdas with great success.
Others have pointed this out but the cross platform nature is great. Creating an application for one device that works on others is great - saves time and money. Of course, you lose some capabilities because you abstract to a higher level.
So, I guess to answer your question: Yes, this stuff is being used, and used in unique and clever ways by a lot of people.
Bill
What you missed was not "optimizing to the underlying architecture..." which by the way I'm sure they did. I have no quibble with that point.
No, to have really hit the mark you might have pointed out that Microsoft removed certain VM security/sanity checks. Like runtime type checking in certain circumstances. These unsafe shortcuts are where a substantial amount of performance increases were realized.
Now, I will apologize for being sarcastic. Your post appeared to me to be the standard "Microsoft achieved X by doing great engineering technique Y." You have to admit, alot of trolls use that one.
Bill
Simon,
Great post. It's clear now and I have you to thank. You've really helped out alot of people with your little tutorial on programming.
Now, it's past your bedtime little troll.
Bill
What? The reason Sun and other companies aren't in MS's position is because they didn't do the same thing. Get it? Microsoft has used illegal tactics to get where they are, and they continue to use them to stay there. Sun isn't using illegal tactics, hence they're not in MS's position.
I've been to the zoo and I don't see how there's anywhere near 2 million species let alone 10 million. I would guess there might be no more than a few hundred.
There's been at least one AC troll laughing at the "moral" question raised here. But let's not forget civil disobedience.
I too feel there are many moral problems with copyright. If enough people share these beliefs, and we act on them (like downloading abandonware) then it's not as cut and dry as the publishers think. It's not "piracy" any more. It's enough people disagreeing with the law... implying that maybe, just maybe, the law is wrong.
Remember, laws are pieces of paper. Many of them have nothing to do with right or wrong anymore. They have much to do about money and greed and control.
Bill
For someone so busy you have a lot of time to post to Slashdot;)
You would open up your machine and allow mobile .NET code to execute on it? I'm not sure I would allow that with Java, which at least has been around for awhile and has a mature security model.
There's nothing new in this game, it could very easily be done with a JXTA or Jini framework.
Bill
----------------
I don't know, I spent a couple years in Taiwan working for various companies and saw lots of Linux, but no FreeBSD.
Of course, my stats have a 50% confidence level 3 times out of 20. I imagine so do yours;)
Bill
http://www.cybercheeze.com/info/logolink.html
It seems you can't link to them without using their logo. Does that make the above link illegal? I guess so. So while I liked the intent of Cybercheeze's reply, they're also pulling some lawyer crap of their own. Am I wrong? Is it illegal now to link to a site without permission?
Seriously, what's happening to our civilization when everything needs to be so regulated?
Hmmm. Most of my meals come with sealed foil lids for the entree. Not saying they don't have microwaves, but maybe they don't use them as much as you think.
The JINI software libraries are available free, they can be distributed freely (under a license agreement) and if that's not enough for you, the specifications are open. Write your own. Pore through the source for the Sun implementations. All for free.
JINI failed as a device connection architecture for other reasons, but just not what mentioned.
I think that should read "to near absolute zero" which also explains the 80% cooler remark.
In another note, can I get an article at SlashDote when I leave my company?
It's been a real catharsis for me. It won't be an easy road to travel, but thank-you for showing me the truth of what I am.