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Australia Develops Space Program With Russia
Chuq writes: "ABC News has details of a joint space effort between Australia and Russia. Australia will be providing launch locations on the Christmas Islands and Woomera (central Australia) and Russia will be providing.. well, experience! As I'm an Aussie I'm glad to see us finally making our first move into the space arena, no matter how small!" Imagine this happening even, oh, 10 years ago.
Australia (along with the british) was a leader in space in the early 60's and was the 3'rd nation to launch a satellite into orbit after the USSR & USA. But as the brits later decided that they no longer needed a ballistic capability they folded the project and sold it to the french. I believe it called ARIANE now!! DOH!
Maybe one of their giant rockets will explode and take out the Christmas Islands. Hurrah! No more goatse.cx!
Actually the Ariane launches from CSG (Centre Spatial Guyanais) Kourou, French Guiana. That's on the north coast of South America.
I know this is off topic but I'd like to point some things out about how El Presidante "handled China".
s c/ ep3_010518_1_n.shtml
First off, the recent fun with China happened because an American recon aircraft in International Airspace was intercepted by a reckless pilot and hit. Then as the aircraft radioed for emergency landing clearance, in accordance with numerous air transport treaties that the PRC and the USA have signed, the clearance was denied and then the crew was held.
Look here on Janes for some background
http://www.janes.com/defence/air_forces/news/mi
Secondly - The PRC holds that everything in the South China Sea, including the Spratly Islands, which are closer to the Philippines. They also occupy the Paracel Islands which has been part of Vietnam since the early 1900s, and invaded Vietnam early in 1980, Afghanistan style...only to be beat back. So in short, the PRC is attempting Pacific expansion in the same way Japan did in the 1930s and early 40s. Taiwan is threatened with hundreds of short-range missiles, and the United States, and Europe if they took Taiwan's side are threatened with atomic weapons by China.
Lastly - The PRC is responsable for wildly violent outbursts against pro-Democracy, Islamic, Tibetian, or other religous groups that make Waco or even Kosovo and the airwar against Serbia look like picnics.
Bush...much as I dislike him, did a very good job with China, giving in to the demands of expansionist nations will never work, the world learned that after Chamberlin's 'Peace in our Time' speech.
That's me, being off topic.
On topic, I think the U.S. should set up a launching facility on the Atlantic Coast of Brazil, where we still have 40 some years on a WW2 lease...at...Natal I think it is. Where the planes in the 40s and 50s jumped from S.A to North Africa. So we'd be closer to the Equator. Maybe it'll happen after the FTAA happens.
The biggest construction project ever was the US Interstate highway system.
As for importance, the Great Wall of China didn't really do much to stem the tide of the northern hordes it was to stop.
him grabbing snakes and alligators in zero-gravity would be cool as hell. Something like "The Matrix meets The Crocidile Hunter" ;-)
(actually, it's exactly what I meant to say. (a) it was funnier; (b) it may have had use to dodge flak; (c) if I were truly poorly misinformed, I'd have figured it destroyed crippled lesbian libertarian spotted owls...)
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Perhaps I've been poorly misinformed, but don't rocket launches release a shitload of ozone-depleting chemicals?
Australia already has a lotta trouble with skin cancer. Can't imagine launching rockets right into the ozone hole is gonna help 'em any...
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As far as I know Australia was potentially a big competitor in the space race before anyone got into space. But like so many Australian projects, our bone head government didn't see a future in it and pulled the plug.
Oh well.. like our first prime minister, I guess hardly anyone remembers now! (until those damn federation ads!)
- Chuq
Well you learn something everyday... I always knew of it as the Christmas Islands... and most of slashdot would only know it as .cx :)
- Chuq
Since it seems that whenever anything falls out of the sky, they always aim it at Australia.
The big question is how close are the new Australian launch sites are to the Equator?
If they're pretty close the same rocket used on the Sea Launch system can be used for these Australian sites.
The biggest advantage in regards to Sea Launch is the fact they can be literally at the Equator, which means maximum assistance of the Earth's rotation. That's why a satellite that would have required a bigger rocket such as the Atlas III when launched from Cape Canaveral only needs the smaller Russian Zenit rocket when launched from the Sea Launch platform.
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
As an aside to Voyage, Stephen Baxter collaborated with UK space engineer Simon Bradshaw on a short story about an Anglo-Australian manned launch from Woomera.
p er o.html
http://www.cix.co.uk/~sjbradshaw/baxterium/pros
S.
Oops. URL typo:
Click here
Christmas Island: 10 30' South
Woomera: 31.10 S
Cape Canaveral: (drumroll) 28.45 N.
Florida is about as far north as the center of Australia is south.
... and if a rocket crashes in the center of Autralia, does it make a sound?
Are you really an Aussie? An Australian would know it is just Christmas Island.
Australia had a beaut shoestring space program, oohh, 20 years ago. We even launched a satellite from Woomera that was the model of robustness and longetivity (except perhaps voyager?). Anyway, the powers that be decided sheep were more important and profitable than technology and shut it down. And nothing's changed since...
(actually, the FIRST moon landing. By #2, I think everyone was already jaded).
Quite right....actually there *were* no real-time video pix from the moon on mission #2 because they got there and found out that their camera was borked. Too bad too, because they landed near an old robot probe and visited it during their stay on the lunar surface. By #3 (the infamous Apollo 13) people were definately jaded - there were interviews with the astronauts that were never aired due to lack of interest. Until the accident, of course.
Admit nothing, deny everything and make counter-accusations.
(The above link requires Quicktime 5, available only for some MS and Mac OSes. It is a reference to a humorous Yahoo! commercial about a spacecraft crashing in an almost-uninhabited part of Australia.)
I don't think I'd call the situation is Russia a recession (which would imply a cylic retreat) - it's more just economic turmoil from the transition to a market economy. There's just so much economic infrastructure that needs to be built, as well as the current general lawlessness that makes doing legitimate business there pretty hard.
Yep. That's why Ariane, which mostly is putting up comms. satellites, launch from Africa.
IIRC, equatorial launch sites are good if you are after, for example, a geostationary orbit, since, as you say, you get the push from the centrifugal force. However, if you want a LEO polar orbit, for example, the push of an equatorial launch site is probably a bad thing, whereas a site like Woomera is just the trick.
MrCreosote Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump! "You're right! There isn't enough room to swing a cat in here!"
then this must be a completely different company entirely
MrCreosote Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump! "You're right! There isn't enough room to swing a cat in here!"
Also dont forget that in reality, Fosters is simply one of the brands of CUB. They just happen to keep all the good stuff for the local market (VB, Crown, Cascade etc)
I work not too far away from FBG HQ in Southbank, and have actually done work for them in the past. FBG is more than just beer (CUB). They also own Mildara-Blass, Continental Spirits, a whole heap of hotels (and pokies - they are the largest operator of poker machines in Victoria, taking all of their hotels together), as well as running a Wine Club division, amongst other things.
MrCreosote Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump! "You're right! There isn't enough room to swing a cat in here!"
Wow, not the only one. I still have a bit that my uncle gave me.
Actually, ESA wanted to use Northern Australia as a launch facility instead of French Guinea or whatever. But in it's infinite wisdom and world wiseness the Australian tax department wanted to tax everything that they would bring into the country.
But don't worry, although we pissed the Europeans off and instead of Australia being the major European launch facility we did invite the Brits to come and detonate nuclear weapons slightly upwind from Adelaide.....
is that Paul Hogan be launched as Australia's first satellite! And maybe The Crocodile Hunter too.
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. - Cmdr. Susan Ivanova
Most countries in the world (including the US) have some form of VAT - either at a state level (ie the US) or at a federal level. Taking a wide survey will find that a country's economy dies after GST only if a recession hits at the same time, or other external factors come into play.
Bankruptcy being up 36% this year is a pretty common figure all over the world. Perhaps you haven't noticed the layoffs in San Jose and hiring freezes in just about every US company?
The biggest reason the Australian dollar has dropped (and the bankruptcies) is not the GST but the mismanagement of the economy by the Reserve Bank. Interest rates never should have been pushed as high as they were and now people are going broke as they can't afford to repay the loans. The effect of GST compared to this was negligible.
Howard should indeed be running scared though - Labor is gonna put up one hell of a FUD campaign (as usual) and probably win with no real future vision or policies (again).
Fear: When you see B8 00 4C CD 21 and know what it means
Some problems will have to be solved and this is in line with other research done in Australia. A different problem was discussed before on slasdot involving why bubbles appear to flow down in Guinness. This type of research is right in line with Aussie science.
you mean "fosters: Canadian for beer!".
Aussies don't drink fosters. You can't get fosters oil cans in Australia and the stuff sold as Fosters in the US was imported from Canada.
Fosters is an American company that was kicked out of the US durring proabition and went to Melbourne. Once the law was overturned, they moved to Canada.
damn I hate when people disprove my point...
. ht m
s te rs.htm
The Fosters brothers moved in the 1888 not the 1920s however it still might have been because of prohibition in their home county... it wasn't due to the nation wide prohibition like I had thought.
A few links:
http://www.australianbeers.com/history/history4
One titled:
Fosters - It's Australian for beer, mate! Or is it?
http://www.australianbeers.com/beers/fosters/fo
All I know is most pubs around here don't sell much fosters and I'm within walking distance of Collingwood where Fosters started. That area is now known for smack, brothels, gay bars and over priced yuppy warehouse conversion flats.
You mean "the whipping boy of other third-world nations with poor human rights records," right?
How the hell is this insightful? Flamebait if I ever saw one.
I corresponded (by email) with someone in Melbourne once to test the assertion that water goes down the drain differently in the southern hemisphere. The result was simply that it did not. I got different swirling patterns just going around to different drains in my house, and so did my cohort in Australia. The coriolis force might affect hurricanes, but nothing as small as a sink or toilet drain.
NASA is in a sorry state right now. The space station is a lousy way to get out of the stagnation that we've been locked in ever since the shuttle program got underway. More competition from a Russian/Australian alliance (as well as from China et al) could be a very good thing, both for NASA and for global space exploration in general.
I'm for anything that would get us off our asses and have us out doing something interesting, like exploring Mars, rather than putting Yet Another Damn Tin-can in orbit. Someone at NASA has a huge David Bowie fixation, methinks....
DO NOT LEAVE IT IS NOT REAL
For the record, Australian toilet bowls work on a slightly different mechanism. Our water doesn't swirl, it goes straight down.
Just FYI.
sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
Well, it came out on the news tonight (Sydney), and no big fuss was made. I doubt they intend to move the russian space program to Australia.
A couple of things intrigue me however. How would this affect relations with the US? Does it? Even a little? What given the cold war/space race between the US and Russia, is the US relaxed and encouraging this link to help get the International Space Station into space, or are there any concerns.
One tends to speculate that the push to get into space is now a bit of an open source project, governments realising the cash its going to cost to get it up there.
The other is what commercial cost would this have for Au. Obviously the US has stacks more cash that Australia, but is the Space Program profitable? Would we be playing with a black hole, that sucked a bit too much cash before we realised it had an impact on the economy. One assumes Russia gives us the staff, we pay for the rockets.
Ah, those were the days. When we were a nation that actually did something rather than reflect on past glories. Thanks for setting me straight, I thought the U.S. was still heavily (leadingly?) involved in the building of the space station, not to mention the enormously scientifically important Hubble. I think no one notices any more because those things, while amazingly dificult to do and important, are not as TV-friendly as was the moon landings (actually, the FIRST moon landing. By #2, I think everyone was already jaded).
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python -c "x='python -c %sx=%s; print x%%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))%s'; print x%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))"
For the most part. Where you want to launch from depends on what type of orbit you would like to wind up in. If, for example, you would like to launch a communications or weather satellite into geosynch (parks it over some place on the earth), then by launching close to the equator, you don't have to use up fuel getting from some N/S lat to the equatorial plane (letting you use more of the payload for insturments rather than fuel). This is the motivation behind sea-launch, where a big platform is lugged into the middle of the ocean and a rocket is launched from it. Since a geosynchronous orbit is one of the most popular and valuable, this is why there is so much of an interest in launch areas close to the equator. (However for other types of orbits, Siberia would work quite nicely).
Is this a true interest in science by John Howard's gov't (which has spent too much time cutting back science spending) or an attempt to raise the Liberal party's dwindling popularity to Labour? I don't see OZ coming up with the bucks on a sustained basis. The GST has had a misearble effect on the aussie dollar (nearly 2:1 to the US buck) so effectively, it will be MORE expensive than in a dollar with a strong currency, to undertake this boondoggle.
The culture of Russian science, at least from what I've experienced first hand, has little respect for "details" and a lot to do with making data fit theories.
Anyway, my vote would be to send Steve "croc hunter" Irwin. But I bet it'll be Murdoch instead. :-)
I remember wandering around the playground in primary school looking for pieces of it......
Buckets,
pompomtom
Buckets,
pompomtom
"There's an exception to every rule. Except for some rules"
Being the primary builder and organizer of the International Space Station, possibly the largest construction project ever,
I think the Great Wall of China was the largest construction project ever. Certainly bigger than the space station, in both size and importance.
just to fill you in on some background information about the australian territory of christmas island (i lived there for two years as a child in the late 70s)
first : christmas islands only makes sense if you are referring to the two christmas islands on the planet - which belong to two different nation states and are located in two different oceans - the one belonging to australia is in the indian ocean, the other one (belonging to the us i think?) is in the pacific ocean - they are often confused - the pacific ocean one was the site of some nuclear testing at one stage
location of australian christmas island - basically about 300 km due south of the indonesian island of java (no bad java jokes please) - roughly about 10 degrees south of the equator (or the same lattitude as the most northern tip of australia at cape york several thousand km to the east) - longitude i can't recall but it is west of all the australian landmass
population peaked at about 2000 people during the glory days of phosphate mining (see below) - now about 500 i think
it is a small and quite isolated island - most interestingly it is one of the few inhabitable places on the earth that never had an indigenous human population - with the result that it has a remarkably unique fauna and flora - many endemic species - there were no mammals native to the island and the floor of the jungle forest is kept remarkably clean by thousand of scavenging land crabs
it has been a haven for bird life over many thousands of years and the result of this is a huge amount of fossilised bird shit which was for many years the one economic resource of the island - mining for phosphate - a valuable agricultural fertiliser
however the island was mostly mined out by the mid-eighties and the australian government has been looking for other things to do with the island - the woefully unimaginative idea they came up with first was to sell a casino license for the island (why, oh why not ecotourism??) - the casino was subsequently built and the plan was to attract 'high rollers' from indonesia - but i think it failed some years back
a large part of the island is protected as a national park - it might even be listed as world heritage i'm not sure - so if they go ahead building a space port (prob on some of the mined out moonlandscape-like part of the island) - they will need to be very careful with the development so as to cause minimal disruption of the remaining mostly untouched highly unique natural environment - but i would be somewhat optimistic this could be achieved
(sorry if this is somewhat rushed and contains no links - suffering from the slashdot imperative to post before the story loses focus)
... of the consortium behind the development of a rocket launching facility on .cx
from the site
Aurora Launch System Summary
The AURORA launch system is offered by Asia Pacific Space Centre (APSC) to commercial users worldwide. AURORA is a Russian designed and manufactured system that will be launched from the APSC spaceport on Christmas Island, an Australian territory in the Indian Ocean.
Typical Flight Paths
With launch from Christmas Island, several flight corridors for AURORA have been identified illustrating the safe nature of the overflight paths and hardware jettison drop zones.
how many scientists would want to go and work on a tropical island in the south pacific?
I can think of quite a lot of people who say they would not mind moving to such an island, if only they could. Then again, few of them dream of working once there...
They'd just need to let go and drop off the bottom of the Earth. Genius!
2)Someone will have vomited something even more unpleasant than normal vomit. And possibly tried to drink it again.
3)All Brits will be horribly sunburnt.
And before you all start criticising me for xenophobia; I'm British, and I've seen the above done far too many times on holiday.
Also, thank God for dictionary.com for help with spelling xenophobia!
anyone who can explain why canada is special member of european space agency ? wouldnt it be much more logical to 1) start own agency 2) join with usa into some kind of north american space agency (nasa :)
list of esa member states
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Bruce: Gents, I'd like you all to meet Ivan, Igor, Greggor, and Uri.
Uri: Hello.
Bruce: Golly... Mind if we all just call you Bruce to avoid confusion?
Bruce: Good suggestion, Bruce. Here, Bruce, have a cold one.
Ivan: No! Vit zero gravity openink can of beer vill...
Bruce: *opens can* !!FOOOOSH!!!
Ceci n'est pas une sig.
Bah, you've probably been drinkin XXXX or VB or some crap. Get some real aussie beer into you. You can eat Coopers Stout with a fork.
-"I still believe in revolution; I just don't capitalize it anymore." - srini!
Woomera was the site of the UK's rocket program when we had one, years ago. Search for Black Knight or Black Arrow on the web, you'll throw up some details. I believe the (crumbling) launch site etc. is still there.
Blane.
The US has gone from being the most respected country in the world to being the whipping boy of third-world nations with poor human rights records
You mean "the whipping boy of other third-world nations with poor human rights records," right?
And of course the Irish don't pass out at all. In fact my better half is half Scottish and half Irish, which is very scary
Special Relativity: The person in the other queue thinks yours is moving faster.
Look at the similarities between Mars and Middle Austrailia....
--- Every day I am forced to add another to the list of people who can kiss my ass...
It turns out Coriolis effects do come into play when firing missles
Actually, Coriolis was a French mathematician who 'discovered' the curved paths of artillery shells (I believe). He made this discovery in the 19th century.
When travelling north and south, things (artillery rounds, winds, whatever) dont really turn. They maintain their path and the earth moves below them.
For instance, let's assume a round is fired in the northern hemisphere (let's say New York City) and it is heading due south (geographic, not magnetic). Let's assume that it maintains a constant distance between it and the surface of the earth (so we need to disregard surface topology).
The surface of the earth near the equator has a higher velocity than the surface near New York (just like the wheels on a car travel at different rates when turning - the outside wheels turn fater than the inside wheels).
The east/west velocity of the round is zero relative to its point of origin, meaning it has the same east/west velocity as its point of origin. The east/west velocity of the surface near the equator is much higher, so it appears that the round turns to the right since the surface is rotating faster below it to toward the east than it did in New York, but it's actually travelling in a straight line.
As it crosses the equator into the southern hemisphere, the reverse is true and it will appear to turn to the left.
Man, I hope that makes sense to you since I'm off topic from the original post.
I suffer from apathy, but I just don't care.
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.-Franklin
It means bigger payloads as less fuel will be needed. That's all this is about.
When China or Russia or India drop a pod on Mars -then- they can claim to be a part of the space race. When someone other than NASA launches long range exploration probes, then they can step up and claim to be expanding the bounds of space. Until then, they're just glorified Space UPS trucks.
D
Mad Scientists with too much time on thier hands
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Maybe this will lead to another space race. I can already picture G.W.Bush saying,'The first man on Mars will be an AMERICAN man, not a kangaroo!'.
D
Mad Scientists with too much time on thier hands
The first, last, and only tech news site on the net
Which is why I'm wondering how the hell the Russians keep getting in the news for space-related stuff
Well, maybe that's because in Russia they don't have that much red tape as the americans do. I mean a burocracy like that can't do anything else *but* slow down, doesn't it? And the american congress isn't much of a helping hand either!It was started back in the early 70s at Woomera,
we had a nice little launch rocket, that
could carry the payload of one that
was 50% biger, after a few tests, the amricans
where invited to see it, it strangly whent BANG
never built another...
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I wonder... does an orbit from a launch in the Southern Hemisphere go in the opposite direcion from an orbit launched in the Northern? Kinda like a toilet bowl?
Argh! Sounds like a job for www.BadAstronomy.com
Remember, You are unique...just like everyone else.
Funnily enough, they actually did an advert for Australian-Rules Football a couple of years ago from Mia. They only had a few minutes each day to shoot about tens seconds of one of the cosmonaughts saying "......, I'd like to see that!" It took several days apparently but they got payed a lot for it.
There was talk of a space "port" being setup in FNQ, Cape York, ten years ago with help from both the russians and nasa, the idea just seemed to fizzle out though.
h tm
From what I can remember, Cape York was favourable due to it's proximity to the equator, more centrifical force, thus making it a more ecconomical place to launch large payloads. Australia is also probably the most politically stable country this close to the equator as well and the weather at Cape York is very predictable between April and November, it just doesn't rain.
I don't know why they'd bother trying to setup a space station on xmas island, the extra costs of getting the stuff there would be more prohibitive than Cape York, ie, you can just truck the stuff to the cape (if they build a road, it's just a sandy track) and how many rocket scientists would want to go and work on a tropical island in the south pacific?
The woomera rocket range is much further south, no real advantage other than it's and old rocket range, nuclear test site and is closer to the major cities. It's also got an abandoned town there, big enough for hundreds of people to live quite comfortably, with shops and a cinema.
more detailed info on the cape york proposal:
http://www.gbhap.com/fulltext/free/S960040F793.
I think that having some sort of active frontier is valuable for the huminity in general, as it is something that we have had for most of our existance as a species on this planet.
Check out the Vinny the Vampire comic strip
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Water flowing in a sink is too small to see the effect, and weather patterns are clearly affected by it, so the Coriolis effect coming into play when shooting a several-ton mass a few thousand kilometers is within the bounds of reasonableness.
While this is obviously a significant move for both governments, I am most impressed with the Russian space agency. It looks to me like the Russians realized that their own country wasn't going to be spending a lot of money on launching anything into space, so they decided to shop around and sell themselves. They must have done a good job of it, too, since they convinced Australia to fund them some. It's things like this that make it easy to believe Russia really was a very formidible foe during the cold war.
Mr. Spey
Cover your butt. Bernard is watching.
...thank you.
...thank you...
Your right - America is a becoming irrelevant in World Affairs. The problem is that the American Government has very literally sold out to its Native TransNationals.
c es-so-the-plutocrats-can-exercise-their-stock-opti ons' kind of 'near term...)).
Kyoto was scuttled. The farce that is the 'energy crisis' is being sold to hood-wink the public. The 'resurrection' of the cold-war for the purposes of giving gifts to the military-industrial industry... The result of obvious cow-towing to business is really just beginning to show. The media outlets dump propaganda on the people like no tomorrow (and shore up the initiatives mentioned above). The American Public looks really foolish considering the crap they ingest. Look at Bush.. The guy is a literally a moron - and he's your president!
The rest of the world knows it. They realize that your government is are smiling, palm-pushing shills for your industries - and the AMERICAN PEOPLE let it continue.
Im sorry - this appears to be flamebait - but if some NON-Americans can please 'back-me-up' here Id appreciate it. This is why NASA is virtually irrelevant - they dont provide profit (directly in very near term(as in 'cash-for-someone-next-quarter-to-raise-stock-pri
BTW, your foreign policy is also tainted by self-interest. This is why America was recently shunned by the UN members... and that IS ALSO obvious to the rest of the world - how Americans can pretend its not the case (or think they are kidding anyone) is beyond me.
Folks, everyone knows the Australians can't go into space. The ship is just going to come flying right back at the thrower after traveling a few yards!
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master."
I wonder... does an orbit from a launch in the Southern Hemisphere go in the opposite direcion from an orbit launched in the Northern? Kinda like a toilet bowl?
Your reality is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. - Baron Munchausen
I've always feared that now Russia is in a big recession a lot of experience might be bought by criminal organisations.
So obviously Australia is better then that :-)
Could these possibly pose problems for the program?
The fact that the US delegate was ousted from the Human Rights council may have something to do with the fact that under the rule of the current US president as governor in Texas, more death sentences were issued there every year than in Iran. (In Iran officially, that is, of course.) As far as the replacement with countries like Sudan (which has a civil war, is the poorest nation on Earth and has a very poor human rights record either) is probably symbolic, seeing the exposed role that the US have and that the US government every now and then admits to having and enforces; it's probably something like if you insist to behave like the world's police force, better make sure that you're morally qualified to do it...
I am rather sure a large percentage of Slashdot readers is not going to like this, but being a non-American, I can only say that this is indeed what an unsettlingly large number of people over here think; I've talked mainly to Germans, some Sudanese, one from England and four from Central Asia, and they'd all agree with you: that the current US government is acting rather imperialistically, mainly in the interest of the US industry and cares for little else.
Outside America, we notice a growing anti-Americanism at the moment which is due, of course, to current US politics. This is not good - in Germany where I come from, much of our current wealth is based on US funding (after the more or less destruction of the country during the war) and US protection during the first decades of the Iron Curtain, and other countries on this planet used to owe the US as well. At the moment, however, there is a growing notion of "It's US, so it's bad, morally insufficient and new-economy-style imperialism". It's probably the US's turn at the moment to convince us that this image is not justified.
PS: This is probably going to be moderated to flamebait, but that's probably the price of being outspoken in a forum with a large US majority in the readership...
As a state gets corrupt, its laws multiply; the most corrupt states have the most numerous laws. (Tacitus, Annales 3:27)
Americans, Italians and French pass out at midnight.
British at 2.
Canadians at 3.
Germans at 3:30
Belgians at 4
Australians at 6:30 the next evening after refreeing a football match between the Russians and Slovenes
Seriously, I am glad other people are getting into the space thing. Geographically, Australia is situated well for shots and Russia needs a solid partner that won't break their balls for having fiscal problems. I am a USAian and I really would hesitate to enter a partnership with us if I were actually wanting to accomplish something at any level. The big bully on the block shtick is getting old.
Comparing it to Windows will be a moot point, since El Dorado is going to have a 40% larger code base than XP.
I think that might be a general Northern European affliction.
Comparing it to Windows will be a moot point, since El Dorado is going to have a 40% larger code base than XP.
Also, the US has used Australia for a Capcom for many missions - starting with the John Glenn orbit. This makes it possible for the blokes in Houston to talk to the people in orbit on the other sie of the earth.
From what I understand, we also relayed much Apollo moon TV through Austrailia, and much of this work was done by Austrailian engineers. There was an independent film made about this recently, the name of which I do not remember.
I wish our friends Down Under and the Russians many successes! I also hope this kicks my own country (US) out of its stupor when it comes to space. If we don't wake up I may have to consider the opportunities offered in these other countries...
A pilot, in those days, was the only unfettered and entirely independent human being that lived in the earth.-Mark Twain
for dumping Skylab on them in the 70's.
/.'ers that probably remember that.
I'm one of the few
It's not because it's closer to the equator. It's not because it's frickin' freezing (although that is a good point). It's called capital, or in other symbols $$$$$$$$$$$$.
Russia gets to use its vast knowledge of rockets and getting people/things/vodka into space. Australia pays Russia for this. In addition to them paying for the knowledge they will be footing a good portion of the bill too. Russia is looking for ways to pay off the enormous debts they have acquired since the fall of communism. Having tourists to space is one way (see Tito). Selling their goods and services to other countries is another. Why not? Or does this make them too capitalistic?
There is another reason why they are doing it. International Politics. They are helping a first-world "western" country. For a while they have been accussed of helping anti-american/western countries (ie Iran, China, etc.) This helps balance that out a little.
Have the russians really given up the space race? Was it a quick 500 meter race? Or, more likely, is this a marathon? I think we'll see a lot of competition coming from them and other countries that will help boost our space programs. And I think that is an excellent thing.
Just my 2 kopecks worth
Better throw another space station on the barby.
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Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
Also remember, America has more stupid people that other countries have people. Don't think that this bullshit is consensual on the part of American citizens. Somehow the baby boomer idiots thought a coke-sniffing, can't-run-a-business, daddy's-boy son of possibly one of the worst presidents in recent memory (G. Bush senior) would somehow be a great "leader". Nevermind his laughable track record as governor of Texas (which by the way was a mistake; the voters there thought there was no way in hell he could win and so didn't bother to vote).
The only certainty is entropy.
China will have an increases presence in space, which will most likely trigger more spending in the US, cause you know, the last thing US polititans want is the Chinese showing them how mindlessly stupid they are. They don't need any help doing that.
Personally I can't wait until the first manned Aussie space flight is handed over to Dallas, and the Dallas controllers all look at eachother with blank stares commenting "Was that english?" You think slang in America is interesting? "I just got rooted" has a whole different meaning down under...
I'm going to go back in my box and will think within the limits of my box: MS Sucks Linux Good I read too much Slashdot.
Australia became the fourth country to launch a satellite (WRESAT) way back in 1967.
Good. I was afraid that the Skylab incident might have turned off Australia to space programs forever. Wink, Wink.
Or maybe the Aussies are plotting some sort of vengeance?
Here's the obligatory HREF for you young'uns.
The only thing that we learn from history is that nobody learns anything from history.
In order to optimitize the weight that you can launch with a given rocket, you had to be as close as possible of the equator. Being close to the ocean is a good idea too, just in case your rocket crashes. That's why:
*Americans launch rockets from Florida.
*Europeans lauch rockets from French Guyana (almost on the equator).
*Russians rockets are big, because Baikonour is far away from the Equator.
*SeaLaunch (launching a russian rocket from a platform rig on the Equator) can launch very big satellites.
*This Australian project doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.
Nobox: Only simple products.
I'd say the russians have plenty of room for their space program in Siberia. So why lug all their heavy rockets and stuff over to australian Islands? I'd say the aussies got invited in for the money. Either that, or the russian kosmonauts have to thaw ...
Ever try to launch a rocket in freezing weather? If I'm not mistaken the cold weather was one of the key factors in causing the o-ring on the Challenger's booster rocket to fail. We all know how that ended.
As I'm an Aussie I'm glad to see us finally making our first move into the space arena
Actually it's not. As far as I know Australia was potentially a big competitor in the space race before anyone got into space. But like so many Australian projects, our bone head government didn't see a future in it and pulled the plug.
The australian space program has a web site here that has a blurb about the new contract. Looking through the site's old news and programs, it looks like this new merger with Russia is far from the Australian excursion into space. They've launched several satelites, and done small scale research for quite a while. The new contract will expand their operations significantly however.
My Karma is so good, I'm the Dalai Lama...or something.
Hmm. I think I meant to say largest *international* project ever. There have been bigger projects even within NASA (ie. Apollo)... although I guess that's not construction...
/. posts. ;)
Oh well. I certain amount of hyperbole should be expected in
--
Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies.
Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies.
- Nietzsche
Which is why I'm wondering how the hell the Russians keep getting in the news for space-related stuff. First Tito, now this? Where the hell was the US? This isn't a criticism of Russia, but considering the funding difficulties they're having at the moment, they're sure as hell going out there and actually doing stuff. We seem to just be sitting on our asses and spending fifty time as much money to do so!
That's just a bit silly. Tito and this are happening solely because of the money - you think Russia's not making a handsome profit on this deal? Same with Tito... they *needed the money*.
Why aren't the States getting these? Because the $20 million that Tito paid is a drop in the bucket for NASA. Why is that? Bureaucratic inefficiency? Concern with safety to the point of standstill? Maybe, a bit. But the main reason is our engineers, workers, equipment suppliers, etc. are paid American wages. The Russians are paid in Russian wages, which are orders of magnitude less, when they are paid at all.
In any case, "sitting on our asses?" Being the primary builder and organizer of the International Space Station, possibly the largest construction project ever, bringing together the US, Canada, ESA, Japan, Brazil, and, yes, Russia and having it (minor issues with Russians aside) actually work? 6-8 shuttle missions a year? That's "sitting on our asses"?
Is there more we could be doing, space-wise? Yes. Could we be doing what we're doing better? Sure. But you shouldn't deify the Russians just because they're desparate to hawk their wares.
(Not to desparage the Russian space program, which, for most of its life, probably bested the Americans. But until they get their economy in good shape, launching tourists in 60's era Soyuz vehicles is probably the best they'll be doing for a while...)
--
Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies.
Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies.
- Nietzsche
Ah, those were the days. When we were a nation that actually did something rather than reflect on past glories.
But well done to Austrailia for moving an important step closer to a true space program, something that any nation that wishes to remain or become an economic player needs. Already the economic impact of space is being felt in the expanding telecommunications industry, and we can only expect this to become more important in the coming decades.
Which is why I'm wondering how the hell the Russians keep getting in the news for space-related stuff. First Tito, now this? Where the hell was the US? This isn't a criticism of Russia, but considering the funding difficulties they're having at the moment, they're sure as hell going out there and actually doing stuff. We seem to just be sitting on our asses and spending fifty time as much money to do so!
With the ending of the Cold War it seems that this nation has lost a hell of a lot of gumption and has been content to let things happen without it. The US has gone from being the most respected country in the world to being the whipping boy of third-world nations with poor human rights records, all in the space of a few decades. And what's worse, nobody cares! Read the papers here, and it's all mindless US propaganda aimed at keeping the proletariat happy and patriotic.
And then there's our illustrious president. I honestly can't decide whether he doesn't care about the rest of the world, or if he's trying to recreate the Cold War, but this time with China. Either way, I feel almost ashamed that there are nations out there moving foward, and that we're not one of them.
I can see the new Foster's ads now...
[Scene] Dolt dressed up like crocodile dundee squatting with a bottle rocket shoved up his behind, trying to light it with flaming end of a log he pulls out of the campfire while a group of similar dolts count down from 10...
[voiceover] Aussie Space Program
[scene switch to foster's can]
[voiceover] Beer
Where the Russians fit into this, I do not want to know.
In any case, Russia has been launching from Kazakhstan and is paying lots for the privilege.
I'd say the russians have plenty of room for their space program in Siberia. So why lug all their heavy rockets and stuff over to australian Islands? I'd say the aussies got invited in for the money. Either that, or the russian kosmonauts have to thaw ...
...
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Living is a way of life
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"The chances of a demonic possession spreading are remote -- relax."
SA space program secures $US135 million grant The Federal Government has welcomed a $US135 million grant to Kistler Aerospace to further its reusable rocket launching program at Woomera, in South Australia's north. The grant is part of NASA's $US4.5 billion Space Launch Initiative, which will foster two competing designs for re-useable rockets by 2006. The Parliamentary Secretary for Science and Resources, Warren Entsch, says the grant ensures the future of a very important program for Australia and Woomera's future space industry. "To get $US135 million coming from NASA, it is great news for them and I think that it's really going to be a tremendous boost for the company and for the prospect of reviving rocket launching activities from Woomera in South Australia," he said. From http://www.abc.net.au/news/newslink/weekly/newsnat -18may2001-104.htm
-- We don't understand software, and sometimes we don't understand hardware, but we can *see* the blinking lights
According to an article on the Space and Tech website, the Avrora launch vehicle is a Russian designed and manufactured rocket capable of delivering satellites to both low earth and geosynchronous transfer orbits. APSC (Asia Pacific Space Centre) plans to use a new spaceport being developed on Christmas Island, an Australian territory located in the northeast India Ocean.
No technology or license on the production of rockets and spacecraft will be offered to the Australian partners. No Russian government funds will be invested in the venture.
The Avrora flight tests will be launched from Baikonur Cosmodrome. The first commercial launch out of Australia's Christmas Island is planned for the last quarter of 2003. After introduction, manufacturing and launch rates are projected to ramp up to as many as 15 launches per year by 2006.
Avrora is capable of delivering 4.5 metric tons (9900 lbm) of payload to geosynchronous transfer orbit at 11 degrees inclination and over 2 metric tons (4400 lbm) directly to geostationary orbit.
-- We don't understand software, and sometimes we don't understand hardware, but we can *see* the blinking lights