First, some irony there - I am a half-German, half-Indian (I live in Bangalore, and no, I am not in the outsourcing line, so go away, Illiad;) - seeing both my homes listed here makes me feel warm in the tummy:)
I completely agree with those figures, and acknowledge the goof in my phrasing. What I actually meant was
"probably the economically most influential nation along with USA, being the driving force behind Europe"
The implication here was, of course, that it is *Europe* that is the rough economic equal of the USA.
Just for once, I am glad to see the Windows bigots being more prominent with their propaganda than the Linux bigots.;-)
Here are a few facts for everyone to chew on:
The VMware installs are to run legacy windows applications during the period of transition.
MS doesn't make any money of licenses here - the machines are currently running Windows 3.1/95/98, and the same licenses are being reused on those machines.
The VMware environment will almost certainly not be used to run MS Office - Germany has been a heavy user of starOffice (and now OpenOffice) for a loong time - unlike in the rest of the world (read that as "U-S-A"), MS Office is not the leading office package in Germany.
I can almost guarantee that 6-12 months down the line, people will have reduced their dependence on VMware by a substantial percentage, as they actually start using Linux/OSS apps.
In the *meanwhile*, those 100+ Windows-only apps are (already) being ported to OS-agnostic Internet/Intranet web-based environments.
Let me also point out that this isn't some little "ThirdWorld" (tm, USA) country with no economics or tech savvy we are talking about - this is Germany - probably the economically most powerful nation along with USA, and the driving force behind Europe. These guys have what it takes to do an evaluation of this sort, and come out tops.
And they have proved that *again* with their decision to switch to Linux while also giving their users the psychological crutch that they will be able to use their existing windows applications. In one fell swoop, they have swept all objections off the table, and have set up a scenario where people will now actually begin using Linux/OSS apps, rather than just reading about them.
And as we all know, that is the *one* single obstacle that Linux/OSS has been facing in the past - getting people to actually try it.
That story is based on a reporter attending a vendor event that as specifically run as a hype-builder for the aforesaid PC product. The reporter clearly has no clue what is really happenning in India - maybe she should try attending a real OpenSource event - the next one comes along this December.
Events like the one reported on are really no representation of the real state of Linux/OpenSource in India. The organisers are essentially riding the wave, but are *completely* out of touch with the realities of OpenSource in India. I know - I was at a meeting of that organising committee where I was told "it is time something is done to promote OSS in India" - this was less than a month after LB/2002 that had thousands of participants, was sponsored by the very same people (HP and IBM) and was totally endorsed by the Indian Government!
If you want to know more about Linux and OpenSource in India, then events like the one described in that article (and the article itself) are certainly not good resources.
Hmmm, good point, actually. Having just bought an IBM notebook and forced to keep a (very very small) Windows partition on it, or IBM wont service the machine, I wonder whether IBM is actually acting in Linux' best interests.
And here we were worried about Iraq setting its oilwells on fire in case of a war.
SCO is clearly heading south businesswise, and sees this as a last ditch effort to make some money. They will clearly fail - thanks to RMS & Co, as well as Linux & gang, there is way too much prior art in this department (and yes, I know that this isn't a discussion about patents).
But that isn't the worrying part - what is really worrying is that SCO is poisoning the well to ensure that if they cannot survive (and now it is fairly clear that they won't), then no one else will, either. And sadly, given the way the corporate world works, this part of the strategy is likely to see much more success than the part aimed at making SCO profitable.
I wonder what we can do about this? Can someone sue SCO for infringing on Linux technologies in their own work?
Turbopower has always been uncoventional in its approach, and opensourcing their stuff, rather than taking it down with them, is a clear example of this. Their libraries are extremely useful, very professionally done, well documented and very stable.
If they work well under Kylix, then this is an unbelievable bonanza for many Delphi/Kylix developers. If opensourcing them makes it easier to port them to be usable under FreePascal, then hallelujah!
I have been a Turbopower customer since the days of Kim Kokonnen's DOS TSR libs back in the 80s.
These guys really redefined the concept of customer service then - supporting a newbie programmer like me in Bangalore, India via Compuserve and mail was no joke, but they did it, and they did it well. Would you believe a small company today mailing huge amount of support material to a one-off customer on the other side of the world, at their own cost?
I was able to build products that earned me a tremendous amount of money in those days, and wouldn't have been able to do so had they not supported me the way they did.
I moved away from the DOS/Windows platform in the 90s after Linux came onto the scene, and ceased being a developer by the mid-90s (I am "just" a user now;).
But I do know whom to thank for my start - that would be Kim, Terry, Julian and the entire bunch of folks at Turbopower.
I am sad to see Turbopower "go away", but at the same time, I am glad to see that they are at least taking a stab at "immortality" by opensourcing their work.
The linux groups in India are all small and pretty restricted in terms of their activities.
Wo-AH! the "small" Linux User group *I* belong to (http://linux-bangalore.org) would take major offence at that statement, as would those in Mumbai, Delhi, Goa, Cochin, Trivandrum, Chennai, Calcutta, Pune, Indore, etc. etc. etc., that represent thousands and thousands of Linux/OpenSource users in India, and each of these LUGs results in more and more Linux/OSS adoption in its area.
Any of the LUGs I have mentioned above are far more than simple "tech" groups. Very few LUGs across the world are as active (and more importantly - successful) as the ones in India, because unlike in the rest of the world, they actually have a "pretty fertile field to sow their crops in" (to spin an outrageously corny phrase based on India's agricultural heritage).
If you doubt that, head here - http://linux-bangalore.org/2002 - and watch what is happening. Watch as this event develops, gains momentum over the next few weeks, gets support from industry giants and LUGs.
Did you *really* think that Bill Gates is in Bangalore tomorrow morning because it is "business as usual"?
Don't read too much into this. What the article does *not* tell you is that it appeared as headlines the day after Bill Gates announced his visit to India in November.
While India is *extremely* strong on the OpenSource front, it is not unreasonable to expect that this particular news item (which isn't one - it doesn't state anything new) sets the stage for some (fairly common) government-level arm twisting. Remember Peru?
Don't get me wrong - I know what the "DIT" (actually Ministry of Information technology, but who has time to nitpick) is doing, and it is heading in the right direction, and pushing hard for open standards and open technologies.
It is just that this particular article does not appear to to be related to their efforts. Also note that this appears to be more of a commercial booster - the government has done nothing to interact with the astonishingly large OpenSource user base in India, which is sad.
First of all, sponsored or not, members attending are expected to contribute something. We typically announce what the cost of the meet will be, and divvy it up over the expected number of attendees (typically 80-100), which sets the amount each person is expected to pay (ranges between Rs.66-Rs.100, with US$1=Rs.48).
We then scout for sponsors (which we usually get) and dump the sponsorship money into the pool, and reduce "gate fees" for members. If the sponsorship amount is less than the cost of the meet, members make up the difference.
However, even if the sponsorship covers the cost of the meet completely, we collect a minimal amount (usually Rs.25) from members. This minimum is never announced - members arrive mentally prepared to pay the full amount.
This is for two reasons: to stock up for lean times (next meet may not be sponsored, which happens occassionally) and to act as a "filter", so that the sponsor does not have to pay for people who aren't really interested in Linux/OpenSource, but who would come simply because there is free grub to be had.
It should be noted that we typically meet in upclass hotels, and place great emphasis on good food, airconditioning and facilities such as data projectors, screens, amplification and other stuff. This does cost a bit, but thanks to this system we have successfully pulled this off since 1998.
As an aside - we have been accused of "violating the spirit of Linux and OpenSource" by charging people for attending, or driving up the cost by using upclass venues.
I think that is a dumb attitude. The BLUG delivers a lot of value to its members in terms of technical talks, events and other stuff, and it isn't that we are taking candy from kids - the typical cover charge is far lower than what a student would spend on two beers and a meal (around Rs.120-150) at Bangalore's favourite watering hole - the Windsor Pub.
Since most of our members are IT professionals (hey, we are the *BANGALORE* LUG;), the charge is *way* below the financial threshold of pain for anyone even casually interested in the meeting content, which is always well planned and delivered.
I'd wait a while. There are a lot of legal implications involved with suddenly beginning to charge for something that has been free all along, and I am sure the patent-holders are going to face some stiff legal opposition to this.
IAC - no matter *what* they do - they cannot enforce it on products you already *own/use*. This could only be applicable to products produced in the future.
Fact - you can't sue a company for refusing to sell you something (or providing you service). If they refuse to deal with you, you can only go to the competition.
Fact - The competition is also doing the same thing.
Fact - You are locked out. You cannot buy a machine without paying financial tribute to Microsoft.
In any other field/industry (telecom anyone?), this would instantly lead to class action suits.
So how would you go about "generating" a class action suit?
Here's the how-to:
Pre-requisites:
First, get yourself a class-action compatible lawyer. Don't worry about costs - you will incur none. Any law firm worth its salt will recognise the publicity value of this action.
Coordinate with people across the country, and make sure that they have a legal representative with them when you do the following:
Action:
1. On a pre-decided day (post Sep 1 - if that date applies to Dell, it will probably apply to all others aswell), have many individuals attempt to buy a PC without an OS from Dell, IBM, HP/Compaq, etc. Make sure that these are *individuals*, not *groups* - groups make bad class-action initiators, groups of individuals have the under-dog advantage, and besides, groups may put the "target" on alert (witness the anti-Microsoft tax day that effectively achieved *nothing*).
2. Make sure *everything* is documented (in writing whereever possible, witnessed by a legal rep if on the phone or in a shop).
3. Collate the unsuccessful experiences of *all* these inidividuals, cataloging experience with each computer company to show:
a. Policy within the company in question
b. The big picture - that this is an industry-wide phenomenon.
At all times, keep in mind that the computer companies are as much victims as you are - keep that in mind.
That's it. Let the lawyers take it from there. This is the stuff their wet dreams are made up of. Just make sure that thelaw firm gets plenty of publicity to:
a. Encourage them to keep going
b. Discourage them from backing out (either because they turn chicken or because the seniorpartners mysteriously start driving fancy cars).
Remember this - like the cases against the tobacco industry, there is valid evidence there that what is happening is not good for citizens of your country. It will be a long battle, but with enough evidence out there, vote-dependant Government officials will begin to see the light, especially when they start losing elections. With that danger, they will clamour to bring this matter to justice, i.e. into court.
And once in court facing the *people* (instead of purchasable commodities like senators), there is very little chance of victory for Microsoft (or anyone else who tries stunts like this).
# I'm going to try to keep this message as politically correct # as possible. I think the Ximian GNOME is a very pretty desktop # and the hackers there do an extraordinary amount of work on # them. But it throws a huge wrench in our upgrade process. We # just want to warn our users that there are packages on the system # that might get messed up during the upgrade process. Nothing # personal, guys. - msw
Ah, I can't let this thread slip by with mentioning my own BBS, CiX. It changed my life, forged friendships that have lasted to this day, educated me and others, and generally ensured that even someone like me (stuck in the dark ages that India represented back then) had a chance to reach out and touch someone. This may not sound like a big deal to you, but being the first and only BBS in the whole country back then meant that you suddenly had people from across the country calling in just to see what it felt like.
I think that's the point. A business OS isn't supposed to be "exciting". It's supposed to get work done. I think RedHat does that very well.
Ah, good point. I wish Microsoft would understand that as well;-)
Seriously - I'd still like some more excitement out of RHL.
Some points that would come to mind is re-inclusion of NTFS support out of the box (even though it does not matter to me, dualbooting is a reality for many business Linux desktops), ALSA, unified server management tools, pre-defined/configured backup mechanisms for new Linux admins, more realistic minimal install profiles (e.g. for a gateway machine), SAMBA setup wizard, etc.
An issue that bugs me no end is that since RHL is the default choice for many business-types who want to take a shot at Linux, RH does not make it clear that it provides great server-related features, but is average or less on the desktop. (RHL bundles StarOffice 5.2 in its Pro package, for God's sake!)
RH Advanced Server makes its positioning clear, while vanilla RHL does not. This leads to confusion and disappointment. Both Suse and Mandrake have been fairly successful as desktops, but (echo alert!) RHL is about as exciting as a glass of water;-)
We all know that competition is good. It encourages innovation, progress and new directions. One of the reasons why there has been so little real innovation in the closed-source world has been the lack of competition to Microsoft's products (other than Windows Servers - which are seriously challenged by Linux).
Over the years, Suse, Caldera et al have offered little serious competition to RedHat when it comes to *marketing* themselves (technically, RedHat is no way superior to any of these distributions).
A "UnitedLinux" would actually be a good idea. It will encourage (spelled f-o-r-c-e) RedHat to improve their product (I am an RHL user, but I'll be the first to admit that RHL is about as exciting as a glass of water these days).
At the same time this will give the players of UL a chance at a bigger market, which in the end is good for Linux and OpenSource.
However, just like Linux chewed up the Unix market before it started spreading its wings, it is very likely that the initial gains UL would achieve would be at the cost of RedHat's share. There will probably be a bit of seesawing before things stabilize.
Both 7.1 and 7.2 Betas showed major issues during beta testing - issues that were actually resolved during the Beta process. Butthe release versions had the problems deteceted even very early in the Beta cycle.
If I know RedHat, they will have rolled the Gold at least 6 weeks ago, if not earlier. The Betas are typically used to prepare the support staff for what is coming.
Re:blogging and the death of the commons
on
Browsing Alone
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· Score: 2, Informative
Well, for what it's worth - I disagree. There are more than enough places on the web where a guy can go and argue his head off, braving flames and trolls, trying to make a point.
But there is a place for debate, and there is a place for putting down one's thoughts without having to worry about some twit with a giant-killer complex spoiling it all. In fact, I suspect that blogs are becoming so popular for precisely this reason.
Understand that there is a difference between letting the world know what you think, and taking on the world in a battle of words/wits/etc. Unfortunately, such battles are rarely won when the winning party makes sufficient credible points but (as you rightly point out) when one or the other party just gives up.
If you are worried that the bloggers are taking over - not to worry, I suspect that as long as places such as SlashDot exist, there is little chance of that happening.;-)
Re:Redhat Linux 7.2 is "stable"?????
on
KDE 2.2.2
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· Score: 1
Don't get me wrong - I am a hard-nosed RHL 7.1 user myself, ironically writing from a Thinkpad 770 (P1, 233 MHz, 128 MB). And I have KDE 2.2.1 installed, and love it, and cant wait to upgrade to 2.2.2. And for the record - my other notebook is a Compaq Contura 4/25cx running RHL 4.2.
My issue with RHL 7.2 was simply that they ran a Beta program (Roswell 1 & 2) that was throwing up *serious* issues till the day RH released 7.2 (October 26) - a distro that was put together in early *September*. *Then* they began pushing out fixes for all the problems that were found in the Beta program. And before anyone jumps in with buzzwords like "QA testing", "release candidates", "field testing", "release cycles" - hey, all those things are aimed at finding and fixing problems *before* some innocent user installs the product and then finds he can't print, has remote-exploitable holes, etc. Sure, up2date fixes that, but if you *knew* of issues before releasing something (and they did - check bugzilla and the roswell archives), then releasing 7.2 was releasing an unstable distro.
My definition of "stable" is RHL 6.2. It wasn't glitchfree, but it saw release because it was stable, not because M$ was releasing XP.
Slashdot Mirror
First, some irony there - I am a half-German, half-Indian (I live in Bangalore, and no, I am not in the outsourcing line, so go away, Illiad ;) - seeing both my homes listed here makes me feel warm in the tummy :)
I completely agree with those figures, and acknowledge the goof in my phrasing. What I actually meant was
"probably the economically most influential nation along with USA, being the driving force behind Europe"
The implication here was, of course, that it is *Europe* that is the rough economic equal of the USA.
Here are a few facts for everyone to chew on:
Let me also point out that this isn't some little "ThirdWorld" (tm, USA) country with no economics or tech savvy we are talking about - this is Germany - probably the economically most powerful nation along with USA, and the driving force behind Europe. These guys have what it takes to do an evaluation of this sort, and come out tops.
And they have proved that *again* with their decision to switch to Linux while also giving their users the psychological crutch that they will be able to use their existing windows applications. In one fell swoop, they have swept all objections off the table, and have set up a scenario where people will now actually begin using Linux/OSS apps, rather than just reading about them.
And as we all know, that is the *one* single obstacle that Linux/OSS has been facing in the past - getting people to actually try it.
Go, Germany! Show the world how it is done!
'nuff said!
Here is a more practical story on Linux in India
Puleeeze!
That story is based on a reporter attending a vendor event that as specifically run as a hype-builder for the aforesaid PC product. The reporter clearly has no clue what is really happenning in India - maybe she should try attending a real OpenSource event - the next one comes along this December.
Events like the one reported on are really no representation of the real state of Linux/OpenSource in India. The organisers are essentially riding the wave, but are *completely* out of touch with the realities of OpenSource in India. I know - I was at a meeting of that organising committee where I was told "it is time something is done to promote OSS in India" - this was less than a month after LB/2002 that had thousands of participants, was sponsored by the very same people (HP and IBM) and was totally endorsed by the Indian Government!
If you want to know more about Linux and OpenSource in India, then events like the one described in that article (and the article itself) are certainly not good resources.
This gives a whole new meaning to the term "saving face".
There may be hope for Bush (father & son) yet.
Hmmm, good point, actually. Having just bought an IBM notebook and forced to keep a (very very small) Windows partition on it, or IBM wont service the machine, I wonder whether IBM is actually acting in Linux' best interests.
Actually, I am not wondering at all.
And here we were worried about Iraq setting its oilwells on fire in case of a war.
SCO is clearly heading south businesswise, and sees this as a last ditch effort to make some money. They will clearly fail - thanks to RMS & Co, as well as Linux & gang, there is way too much prior art in this department (and yes, I know that this isn't a discussion about patents).
But that isn't the worrying part - what is really worrying is that SCO is poisoning the well to ensure that if they cannot survive (and now it is fairly clear that they won't), then no one else will, either. And sadly, given the way the corporate world works, this part of the strategy is likely to see much more success than the part aimed at making SCO profitable.
I wonder what we can do about this? Can someone sue SCO for infringing on Linux technologies in their own work?
Turbopower has always been uncoventional in its approach, and opensourcing their stuff, rather than taking it down with them, is a clear example of this. Their libraries are extremely useful, very professionally done, well documented and very stable.
;).
If they work well under Kylix, then this is an unbelievable bonanza for many Delphi/Kylix developers. If opensourcing them makes it easier to port them to be usable under FreePascal, then hallelujah!
I have been a Turbopower customer since the days of Kim Kokonnen's DOS TSR libs back in the 80s.
These guys really redefined the concept of customer service then - supporting a newbie programmer like me in Bangalore, India via Compuserve and mail was no joke, but they did it, and they did it well. Would you believe a small company today mailing huge amount of support material to a one-off customer on the other side of the world, at their own cost?
I was able to build products that earned me a tremendous amount of money in those days, and wouldn't have been able to do so had they not supported me the way they did.
I moved away from the DOS/Windows platform in the 90s after Linux came onto the scene, and ceased being a developer by the mid-90s (I am "just" a user now
But I do know whom to thank for my start - that would be Kim, Terry, Julian and the entire bunch of folks at Turbopower.
I am sad to see Turbopower "go away", but at the same time, I am glad to see that they are at least taking a stab at "immortality" by opensourcing their work.
Don't DVs use the same DAT tapes as DDS3/3 DAT drives?
The linux groups in India are all small and pretty restricted in terms of their activities.
Wo-AH! the "small" Linux User group *I* belong to (http://linux-bangalore.org) would take major offence at that statement, as would those in Mumbai, Delhi, Goa, Cochin, Trivandrum, Chennai, Calcutta, Pune, Indore, etc. etc. etc., that represent thousands and thousands of Linux/OpenSource users in India, and each of these LUGs results in more and more Linux/OSS adoption in its area.
Any of the LUGs I have mentioned above are far more than simple "tech" groups. Very few LUGs across the world are as active (and more importantly - successful) as the ones in India, because unlike in the rest of the world, they actually have a "pretty fertile field to sow their crops in" (to spin an outrageously corny phrase based on India's agricultural heritage).
If you doubt that, head here - http://linux-bangalore.org/2002 - and watch what is happening. Watch as this event develops, gains momentum over the next few weeks, gets support from industry giants and LUGs.
Did you *really* think that Bill Gates is in Bangalore tomorrow morning because it is "business as usual"?
IT.COM is a technology business expo, and while it has some Linux content, it is largely representative in nature.
If you want to see the true might of Linux, check out Linux Bangalore/2002, India's biggest annual Linux event, held in December.
Don't read too much into this. What the article does *not* tell you is that it appeared as headlines the day after Bill Gates announced his visit to India in November.
While India is *extremely* strong on the OpenSource front, it is not unreasonable to expect that this particular news item (which isn't one - it doesn't state anything new) sets the stage for some (fairly common) government-level arm twisting. Remember Peru?
Don't get me wrong - I know what the "DIT" (actually Ministry of Information technology, but who has time to nitpick) is doing, and it is heading in the right direction, and pushing hard for open standards and open technologies.
It is just that this particular article does not appear to to be related to their efforts. Also note that this appears to be more of a commercial booster - the government has done nothing to interact with the astonishingly large OpenSource user base in India, which is sad.
At the Bangalore LUG, we have a simple system:
;), the charge is *way* below the financial threshold of pain for anyone even casually interested in the meeting content, which is always well planned and delivered.
First of all, sponsored or not, members attending are expected to contribute something. We typically announce what the cost of the meet will be, and divvy it up over the expected number of attendees (typically 80-100), which sets the amount each person is expected to pay (ranges between Rs.66-Rs.100, with US$1=Rs.48).
We then scout for sponsors (which we usually get) and dump the sponsorship money into the pool, and reduce "gate fees" for members. If the sponsorship amount is less than the cost of the meet, members make up the difference.
However, even if the sponsorship covers the cost of the meet completely, we collect a minimal amount (usually Rs.25) from members. This minimum is never announced - members arrive mentally prepared to pay the full amount.
This is for two reasons: to stock up for lean times (next meet may not be sponsored, which happens occassionally) and to act as a "filter", so that the sponsor does not have to pay for people who aren't really interested in Linux/OpenSource, but who would come simply because there is free grub to be had.
It should be noted that we typically meet in upclass hotels, and place great emphasis on good food, airconditioning and facilities such as data projectors, screens, amplification and other stuff. This does cost a bit, but thanks to this system we have successfully pulled this off since 1998.
As an aside - we have been accused of "violating the spirit of Linux and OpenSource" by charging people for attending, or driving up the cost by using upclass venues.
I think that is a dumb attitude. The BLUG delivers a lot of value to its members in terms of technical talks, events and other stuff, and it isn't that we are taking candy from kids - the typical cover charge is far lower than what a student would spend on two beers and a meal (around Rs.120-150) at Bangalore's favourite watering hole - the Windsor Pub.
Since most of our members are IT professionals (hey, we are the *BANGALORE* LUG
I'd wait a while. There are a lot of legal implications involved with suddenly beginning to charge for something that has been free all along, and I am sure the patent-holders are going to face some stiff legal opposition to this.
IAC - no matter *what* they do - they cannot enforce it on products you already *own/use*. This could only be applicable to products produced in the future.
Isn't jaguar essentially Unix?
So shouldnt this work?
http://www.tomw.org/malsync/
Hmmm, this post could do with some modding up.
He is right, BTW. Time to put money where mouth is.
(click)
Fact - you can't sue a company for refusing to sell you something (or providing you service). If they refuse to deal with you, you can only go to the competition.
Fact - The competition is also doing the same thing.
Fact - You are locked out. You cannot buy a machine without paying financial tribute to Microsoft.
In any other field/industry (telecom anyone?), this would instantly lead to class action suits.
So how would you go about "generating" a class action suit?
Here's the how-to:
Pre-requisites:
First, get yourself a class-action compatible lawyer. Don't worry about costs - you will incur none. Any law firm worth its salt will recognise the publicity value of this action.
Coordinate with people across the country, and make sure that they have a legal representative with them when you do the following:
Action:
1. On a pre-decided day (post Sep 1 - if that date applies to Dell, it will probably apply to all others aswell), have many individuals attempt to buy a PC without an OS from Dell, IBM, HP/Compaq, etc. Make sure that these are *individuals*, not *groups* - groups make bad class-action initiators, groups of individuals have the under-dog advantage, and besides, groups may put the "target" on alert (witness the anti-Microsoft tax day that effectively achieved *nothing*).
2. Make sure *everything* is documented (in writing whereever possible, witnessed by a legal rep if on the phone or in a shop).
3. Collate the unsuccessful experiences of *all* these inidividuals, cataloging experience with each computer company to show:
a. Policy within the company in question
b. The big picture - that this is an industry-wide phenomenon.
At all times, keep in mind that the computer companies are as much victims as you are - keep that in mind.
That's it. Let the lawyers take it from there. This is the stuff their wet dreams are made up of. Just make sure that thelaw firm gets plenty of publicity to:
a. Encourage them to keep going
b. Discourage them from backing out (either because they turn chicken or because the seniorpartners mysteriously start driving fancy cars).
Remember this - like the cases against the tobacco industry, there is valid evidence there that what is happening is not good for citizens of your country. It will be a long battle, but with enough evidence out there, vote-dependant Government officials will begin to see the light, especially when they start losing elections. With that danger, they will clamour to bring this matter to justice, i.e. into court.
And once in court facing the *people* (instead of purchasable commodities like senators), there is very little chance of victory for Microsoft (or anyone else who tries stunts like this).
# I'm going to try to keep this message as politically correct
# as possible. I think the Ximian GNOME is a very pretty desktop
# and the hackers there do an extraordinary amount of work on
# them. But it throws a huge wrench in our upgrade process. We
# just want to warn our users that there are packages on the system
# that might get messed up during the upgrade process. Nothing
# personal, guys. - msw
They didn't specify what *kind* of seat, did they?
Is this in any way related to the Pentagon's $64K/toilet seat?
Ah, I can't let this thread slip by with mentioning my own BBS, CiX. It changed my life, forged friendships that have lasted to this day, educated me and others, and generally ensured that even someone like me (stuck in the dark ages that India represented back then) had a chance to reach out and touch someone. This may not sound like a big deal to you, but being the first and only BBS in the whole country back then meant that you suddenly had people from across the country calling in just to see what it felt like.
I think that's the point. A business OS isn't supposed to be "exciting". It's supposed to get work done. I think RedHat does that very well.
;-)
;-)
Ah, good point. I wish Microsoft would understand that as well
Seriously - I'd still like some more excitement out of RHL.
Some points that would come to mind is re-inclusion of NTFS support out of the box (even though it does not matter to me, dualbooting is a reality for many business Linux desktops), ALSA, unified server management tools, pre-defined/configured backup mechanisms for new Linux admins, more realistic minimal install profiles (e.g. for a gateway machine), SAMBA setup wizard, etc.
An issue that bugs me no end is that since RHL is the default choice for many business-types who want to take a shot at Linux, RH does not make it clear that it provides great server-related features, but is average or less on the desktop. (RHL bundles StarOffice 5.2 in its Pro package, for God's sake!)
RH Advanced Server makes its positioning clear, while vanilla RHL does not. This leads to confusion and disappointment. Both Suse and Mandrake have been fairly successful as desktops, but (echo alert!) RHL is about as exciting as a glass of water
We all know that competition is good. It encourages innovation, progress and new directions. One of the reasons why there has been so little real innovation in the closed-source world has been the lack of competition to Microsoft's products (other than Windows Servers - which are seriously challenged by Linux).
;-)
Over the years, Suse, Caldera et al have offered little serious competition to RedHat when it comes to *marketing* themselves (technically, RedHat is no way superior to any of these distributions).
A "UnitedLinux" would actually be a good idea. It will encourage (spelled f-o-r-c-e) RedHat to improve their product (I am an RHL user, but I'll be the first to admit that RHL is about as exciting as a glass of water these days).
At the same time this will give the players of UL a chance at a bigger market, which in the end is good for Linux and OpenSource.
However, just like Linux chewed up the Unix market before it started spreading its wings, it is very likely that the initial gains UL would achieve would be at the cost of RedHat's share. There will probably be a bit of seesawing before things stabilize.
And *that's* where the fun really begins.
Both 7.1 and 7.2 Betas showed major issues during beta testing - issues that were actually resolved during the Beta process. Butthe release versions had the problems deteceted even very early in the Beta cycle.
If I know RedHat, they will have rolled the Gold at least 6 weeks ago, if not earlier. The Betas are typically used to prepare the support staff for what is coming.
Well, for what it's worth - I disagree. There are more than enough places on the web where a guy can go and argue his head off, braving flames and trolls, trying to make a point.
;-)
But there is a place for debate, and there is a place for putting down one's thoughts without having to worry about some twit with a giant-killer complex spoiling it all. In fact, I suspect that blogs are becoming so popular for precisely this reason.
Understand that there is a difference between letting the world know what you think, and taking on the world in a battle of words/wits/etc. Unfortunately, such battles are rarely won when the winning party makes sufficient credible points but (as you rightly point out) when one or the other party just gives up.
If you are worried that the bloggers are taking over - not to worry, I suspect that as long as places such as SlashDot exist, there is little chance of that happening.
Don't get me wrong - I am a hard-nosed RHL 7.1 user myself, ironically writing from a Thinkpad 770 (P1, 233 MHz, 128 MB). And I have KDE 2.2.1 installed, and love it, and cant wait to upgrade to 2.2.2. And for the record - my other notebook is a Compaq Contura 4/25cx running RHL 4.2.
My issue with RHL 7.2 was simply that they ran a Beta program (Roswell 1 & 2) that was throwing up *serious* issues till the day RH released 7.2 (October 26) - a distro that was put together in early *September*. *Then* they began pushing out fixes for all the problems that were found in the Beta program. And before anyone jumps in with buzzwords like "QA testing", "release candidates", "field testing", "release cycles" - hey, all those things are aimed at finding and fixing problems *before* some innocent user installs the product and then finds he can't print, has remote-exploitable holes, etc. Sure, up2date fixes that, but if you *knew* of issues before releasing something (and they did - check bugzilla and the roswell archives), then releasing 7.2 was releasing an unstable distro.
My definition of "stable" is RHL 6.2. It wasn't glitchfree, but it saw release because it was stable, not because M$ was releasing XP.