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Will Munich's Linux Desktops Be Running Windows?
An anonymous reader writes "Remember that story about the city of Munich choosing Linux to power 14,000 desktop computers? One aspect of this story that most people don't know about is that up to 80 percent of those Linux desktops will be equipped with VMWare, a virtual machine emulator, under which they will run Windows and Windows applications. That's right, folks: The majority of those 'Linux desktops' will be used to run ... Windows." This Gartner report from early June seems to be the one mentioned in the article, though I'm not sure exactly where Thurrott gets the 80% figure.
Isn't that... kinda, betrayal? I mean, they were switching to Linux, not 'Linux so we can use VMWare...'
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interesting if it's true, although the article does specify a redmond source.
vmware is a great product for developing using a virtual network, and I'm sure they must have done their sums (they are Germans, after all)
My guess is that they must have a lot of legacy apps that they can't afford to update now, and that in the future they will use linux clients, but that they can start moving everyone to linux now to make the later switch easy.
Humorous signatures are over-rated.
windows cant lose for winning?
turn up the jukebox and tell me a lie
Two Steps forward, one step back
Chuck
Would you not have to pay for a SUSE linux and windows license to run windows in vmware? Maybe they are going to run their OLD versions of windows?
~~~
http://www.wininformant.com/Articles/Index.cfm?Ar
It's Paul Thurrott, not Thurott.
...is to buy out vmware like we did with blender. Then, we can hopefully get OEMs to start including windows UNDER Linux for increased features and stability. In addition, when Windows crashes, more options can be granted. If we can get Linux as the base for Windows, then people may start developing programs directly for Linux that bypass Windows altogether.
Running VMWare under Linux, not under Windows, could provide a needed security blanket for those people that aren't used to sudden change. If they weren't serious about the move they wouldn't be doing this transitional thing; remember that these are mainly office paper pushers, not computer geeks.
Trolling is a art,
Maybe inside VMWare'd Windows they can run a Mac emulator, too.
No doubt in-house they're going to leverage the potential of Linux, getting applications custom developed for their usage and whatnot, while continuing to use Microsoft's superior products until something equivalent or better comes along. Eventually they'll migrate fully.
At least this type of thing might make Microsoft loosen upgrade requirements, and also it gives some nice $$$ to Linux companies, and hence development.
Karma: Bad. Mostly because the only moderators that notice me are conservatives.
I think it is sick that any organization, city, government, whatever, would buy a bunch of linux machines just for the PR they would get by running linux machines and then use them for Windows applications!
If they want PR, they should get it elsewhere, but this, in my opinion, is a sickening way to obtain media attention for Linux, and I think Linus Torvalds would agree.
There's always OpenOffice.org, instead of MS Office....
---------------
"as far as finding a severe vulnerability in Windows 2003, goes: Eh. What did you think was going to happen? That it was going to be unhacked for its entire existence?"
Well, how about not forcing customers to upgrade applications, because the OS is supposed to be a 'more secure product from the ground up', when it contains the same flaws as earlier versions?
Sure, I also think that Linux is perhaps not ready yet for GENERAL desktop use and replacement for Windows for all, but this article is a lot like Yellow Journalism, where the facts are more BS, fluff, and stretched fact than anything else.
They're also forgetting a major thing. If they were to use SO many computers with Windows anyway, WHY DIDN'T THEY JUST TAKE THE MICROSOFT DEAL? Instead of blowing several million euros on SuSE's Linux and IBM's machines?
In all, this article makes little or no sense, cites only one reference, gives no source for the statistic, and stretches many facts in the sole reference, to the point where it makes little/no sense. The very fact that this crap could be MENTIONED on Slashdot really makes me question the integrity of this news source.
"some windows applications".
You don't need to run OfficeXP or Outlook to write a fucking message and email it.
There are free alternatives, did you know?
By switching to Linux for operating system, Munich avoids depending on Microsoft for technical support and product upgrades. While using VMWare allows continuous usage of existing programs and possible future migration to Linux. This decision allows CHOICE and FLEXIBILITY, which are what I believe Munich wants in the first place.
Of course they will, they have a lot of legacy software... Migrating is a longer process, it's just gotten started. Probably the Linux apps will start showing up with time...
My Computer repair class last year switched to linux my behest and because my instructor wanted to anyways. we setup VMWare and a win2k install on all of our machines as a stepping stone, throughout the year, people stopped using windows as much, as they had to start IT up from inside linux and that was "too much of a hassle" to lazy high school kids. However, they did start using linux more and more, and ultimately the b3ecame more proficient. So I believe Munich is using these VMware installs to allow their workers to be able to go back to a familiar enviroment while they learn the new one and how it functions
why does the porridge bird lay his eggs in the air?
It happens with any systems migration. When the apps are ported then they will not need VMware anymore. It happens all the time.
A big example is Quicktime and codeweaver's crossover plugin. It became popular because the lack of Quicktime support on linux. Then mplayer came along which utilized the windows dlls to play quicktime files. Eventually a native codec was written, and crossover and the dlls wernt needed anymore.
A more current is crossover office. It is used to get microsoft office running on linux, and when OpenOffice matures (1.1 RC1 looks good, but it still needs more speed and font work) then Crossover won't be needed anymore.
wouldn't it just be easier to run windows?
SIGFAULT
It often makes sense to maintain backward compatibility for a stage or two. If they were just going to run Windows apps they wouldn't need Windows at all. So clearly, if the story is even true, what it means is just that they have some 'legacy' apps they can't immediately replace. No big deal. Run VMware (or Win4Lin, or Wine, depending on the specifics) use Windows and the software for it that they've already payed for, but it gets them off the upgrade treadmill, and looking for *nix-native programs to replace the legacy crap.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
Will Munich's Linux Desktops Be Running Windows?
Can't we just pretend VMWare doesn't exist and laugh at the headline? Please?
The coolest voice ever.
amplified greatly by Thurrott.
Listen to this nonsense: up to 80 percent of those Linux desktops will be equipped with VMWare. Well if .01% of the desktops run VMWare, this statemtn was still true. The 80% figure if menitions nowhere in the Gartner report Thurrott is supposedly quoting.
Look at the name of Thurrott's site. Look at the rest of the pro-MS crap he writes. This boy is shaking in his boots and crap like this is his only possible response.
"that's not encryption - it's a new perl script that I'm working on..." - from some Matrix parody
Must... not... give in... to... M$ propaganda...
...owwww...
/me is dead.
[gurgle]
Is that the same Wininformant who wrote this?
Large orgs, (governments in particular) are seldom known for radical changes of course due to their size and institutional momentum.
So, if we replace the underlying system and keep the top, we've made a small turn. In the right direction, IMHO.
Also, they probably own the windows licences to be used w/ VMware, so there's no new costs there.
Besides, if you read the article, this guy is a hardcore MS zealot. The little blurb under "Glass Half Full Much?" and it's associated denial is pretty frickin' funny.
I think I need a new sig here.
Good grief. A little common sense would dictate that even if they are using VMWare, its not something to generate a whole lot of hulaballoo about. Everyone needs a transition period.
Munich has over 100 Windows-only custom apps! They can't be expected just to switch to Linux and loose those overnight.
Even *I* dual-booted Windows next to Linux for 2 years, and I'm a geek. Its to be expected, and isn't "Betrayal" or a "Loss" to Linux... it is the necessary progression.
I'm glad that they are gonna take it slow in the conversion from Windows to Linux. It can be a pain if you don't and they might be apt to halt the transfer if any signs of dissatisfaction are detected.
Fact: Linux solution was 3 Million more. No way this covers the licenses for 14,000+ copies of Windows that is going to be required to run with VMWare, unless Microsoft is working behind the covers with the linux vendor and giving them a bigger discount then they were offering the city in the first place. Just other BS article to let us think that microshaft has won again.
I think it really depends on what they're doing with the Windows VM's. If they're booting up their Linux boxes, firing up VMware and spending the duration of the day in Windows, then yeah, that's pointless.
But if they're only using Windows/MSOffice under VMware to aid in the transition to non-MS software, and using Linux everything else, this could be a huge opportunity to introduce Linux on a large scale without pissing people off with OpenOffice incompatibilities, etc... IMO, this is a good thing.
Well yeah, if al lot of peole have to switch, isn't it normal dat the admins want to provide the best support for everybody. Converting every program and file to OO-alikes isn-t a simple thing and not everything program in windows has a OO-variant. Thing about how you struggled to switch to linux. If VMware makes there job easier. yeah, whatever.
Besides, what if VMware is just an option in the full installation? I think the admins really just want a good installation instead of trying to block MS-crap...
- Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.
While in an ideal world, the entire setup would instantly switch to a purely linux solution, the real world doesn't work that way. You'll always have people who are more comfortable with certain apps, and you'll have applications that just plain aren't available for Linux just yet.
By running the workstation on Linux, and by locking Windows into it's own little virtual machine jail, this accomplishes several important things:
1. Gets Linux on the desktop
2. Handles any/all remote display sessions, eliminating cost of a windows X-desktop solution.
3. Handles remote NFS mounts to *nix servers, eliminating *that* cost.
4. Allows users to continue with most of their work when the Windows VM bluescreens - reboot the VM and keep going.
As long as 3 years ago, a Linux desktop with VMWare running Windows was a viable solution from a cost perspective, and with the reliability and other improvements in VMWare, it's an excellent solution in a hybrid environment.
While many of us would prefer to be in a Pure Open Environment, the reality of the world is that this doesn't exist in many places just yet. Moves such as this will go a long way torwards getting us there, and in the meantime, there are a bunch of desktops which will be far more stable and usable than if they were running only Windows. I've been running this way for around 3 years now, and it's a perfectly viable solution. It gets Linux the exposure it needs, and the quality of the product will do the rest.
Gartner estimates that Munich's migration to Linux will cost around 30 million euros. It would have cost 27 million euros to upgrade Windows, before some reportedly very steep discounts from Microsoft.
Huh? How did they get those numbers? Did they assume that IT technicians would have to be re-trained or new software would have to be purchased or something? I mean, maybe I'm missing something, but Linux is free, while Windows upgrades cost around a hundred bucks per license (although probably cheaper in bulk) So, really - where do those numbers come from?
I produce electronic music and write little games. Have a look.
there are many free Linux apps( a great aspect of the OS), which can do the same as, if not more than, many Microsoft apps.
I challenge you: Name one. I'll give you a hint: OpenOffice.org isn't one of them.
The article asks the source of the 80% figure. The original report is here (in German). On page 34, footnote 1, there is the assumption that 80% will be using VMWare for 4 to 5 years.
Did anyone think that the vmware may be used to access the Windows that was previously installed on these machines?
And I thought the bulk of these machines were embedded devices like cop cars, etc.
This seems a bit fuzzy...
int func(int a);
func((b += 3, b));
think of it as having a terrarium.
like in your own environment you have a model of a smaller environment for amusement and to archive
lesser lifeforms for sentimental reasons.
I'll keep mine alongside my giant carboy with an actual example of a wild billgates.I may actually replace him with it tho cause he kinda smells and sits around touching himself like a gibbon.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
I mean, the post made a good point, but I can see how others would not agree with it... therefore it's moderated as a troll! Here's what troll (in the context of slashdot) use to mean:
o t% 20troll
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=Slashd
But clearly this definition has become antiquated if the parent post is a troll. Perhaps old trolls should be moderted orcs or some higher (or lower, depending on your point of view) level of non-human abomination?
Matt Fahrenbacher
James Tiberius Kirk: "Spock, the women on your planet are logical. No other planet in the galaxy can make that claim."
Open Office is AWESOME! It can almost open an MS Word document, XL document, it sorta does the same thing (much slower and buggier of course), and, uh.....you get what you pay for?
(Subject sez it all, folks... ;-)
nothing to see here... move along
As a matter of fact they still have a few Windows 3.1 (16bit) applications in daily use for which they have no replacement. From what I hear this is the main reason they still need Windows. Ever tried to run a 3.1 app on XP? Rather a pain in the ass. Since they eventually want to port these applications they have the choice to port to Win32 or port them to Linux.
As for using VMWare: They already own enough Windows licenses, so there will be no additional costs for them. WinNT 3.5, Win3.11 and Windows95 do not require paid licenses on new machines since they officially reached the end of their lifecycle. Not too many people know this.
All of this makes perfect sense to me, as it is the most flexible and stable solution. Wine is still not quite ready for daily use and other solution are not even close to beeing mature.
they want to be in *control* of their computing environment.
When this is done, they will be able to take advantage of any Linux or Unix based application easily. Why? Because their desktops are open ones, not closed.
No amount of money spent on the Microsoft deal will allow them the level of choice they have now.
That is going to be worth something more than the few million extra euros they spent today.
Blogging because I can...
This is kind of like people complaining about you running a Nintendo emulator on your computer because you want to play Super Mario. If it runs on a Nintendo, you don't really have a lot of choice...
I'm sure they have invested lots of money and time into Windows software, and if it works, why change?
The game isn't over yet... Next time, Gates... Next time...
As a minor IT functionary in Deutschland (that's Germany for you Anglophiles) I've been watching this situation closely. It's sad but true, but right now Linux just doesn't entirely suit our needs.
.DOC files are commonly passed back and forth with business/government emails...it's become a defacto standard. Open Office mangles them horribly, I'm afraid. I guess that's it, really...it's all about standards. I wish it weren't so, but Linux doesn't yet have support for many of the standards on which our infrastructure relies, like .DOC, .PDF, or MSHTTP. With the proliferation of .NET applications...what are you going to do?
Primarily, I'm concerned about comptability, and communicating effectivley with the rest of the world. Microsoft
I'd really like to see more Linux on our desktops. I think it's got more potential to integrate granular deliverables, especially in this post-bust economy, but right now MS simply has better core capabilities to enhance transparent web services. Maybe MS will release a *n?x varient of their own, and that will solve our goverment's problems...
Here's to hoping!
Consensual sex is boring.
I'm not sure, but is it possible to run VMware remotely? It may be a way to give remote desktops to people that could be cheaper than Cytrix or tarantilla? Not sure if that is the plan I don't live in Munich.
Only 'flamers' flame!
Does slashdot hate my posts?
4. Allows users to continue with most of their work when the Windows VM bluescreens - reboot the VM and keep going
So what do they do when the Linux box kernel panics?
hmm. another network huh? you mean like 3ro5hun?
a/s/l here. Sorry, adding domain tags to your s
I have linux installed on my laptop with vmware running windows to have word. I generally write papers with my laptop. I would LOVE to get rid of windows but I need word because my school has it in the computer labs. I need to be able to print papers out at school, and most times I don't have time to fix the formatting and other misc descrepances I get from converting to .doc format.
I might be missing a solution to my problem, though, because I'm still learning how linux works (I did recompile the kernal and get wireless networking functional, and I'm proud of it dammit!)
----
Squirrel
Nobody has brought up the cost of licensing VMWare. I have no idea what sort of volume discounts are available, but I know that a single Workstation license certainly isn't free. Wouldn't it be easier to set up a bunch of Citrix/Terminal Services servers and have just the client on the linux machines? It would be a lot easier to maintain, and the hardware requirements on the workstations would be vastly reduced.
Plus, how is alienating your 14,000 users a good thing? Fine, the decision has been made to switch to Linux, but I don't see how "making it hard for them to use Windows" (to quote another poster) is beneficial to the organisation. If the decision has been made then deal with it, take some affirmative action, don't expect the users to get pissed off by themselves and figure out how "this linux thing" (or the German equivalent) works.
Funny thing is that even OpenOffice (and Mozilla) are better on Windows than Linux.
Look,
Bad news would be a total reversal and going with a full MS solution. This is an intelligent, well thought out migration. As nice as it would be to have all Linux based apps at the changeover, it's just not going to happen. As nice as it would be for all systems to be rolled out with Linux and everyone be perfectly happy with their systems and no retraining required, it's not going to happen. This is an excellent migration strategy. Start porting your critical apps over to Linux over a period of time (months/years), keep your existing legacy apps running on Windows in a sandbox (ie. VMWare) so that the typical crashes don't bring down the whole system (just restart the virtual machine), and, best of all, keep everyone happy and content. This shows that IT was thinking of the users throughout the migration and have their best interests at heart.
To everyone blasting this as a betrayal or a PR stunt, work in the real world and do this for a living. Wholesale switches from one platform to another is not an easy thing from the IT side of things or (especially) the user side of things. This is warranted, justified, and just plain right.
These guys don't need yelling and screaming, they need a pat on the back for thinking this through thoroughly enough to see that not all apps can be migrated over yet and people still need to work, otherwise, they could have 14,000 new bright and shiny systems with only a handful of people actively doing their jobs while all of the others sit and twiddle their thumbs for most of the day (besides to send emails, type up some documents, and surf).
I love linux (as I state all of the time), but a migration of that size (or any size) has to be thought through from the perspective of not only IT and monetary considerations, but from the user standpoint as well.
CliffH
sigs are like a box of chocolates, they all suck remove the underscores to email me
dave
Per hour. Approx 50 cents.
Incorrect. 800 numbers are NOT cheap and they are usually billed per minute.
An anonymous reader writes "Remember that story about the city of Munich choosing Linux to power 14,000 desktop computers? One aspect of this story that most people don't know about is that up to 80 percent of those Linux desktops will be equipped with VMWare, a virtual machine emulator, under which they will run Windows and Windows applications. That's right, folks: The majority of those 'Linux desktops' will be used to run ... Windows." This Gartner report from early June seems to be the one mentioned in the article, though I'm not sure exactly where Thurott gets the 80% figure. An anonymous reader writes "Remember that story about the city of Munich choosing Linux to power 14,000 desktop computers? One aspect of this story that most people don't know about is that up to 80 percent of those Linux desktops will be equipped with VMWare, a virtual machine emulator, under which they will run Windows and Windows applications. That's right, folks: The majority of those 'Linux desktops' will be used to run ... Windows." This Gartner report from early June seems to be the one mentioned in the article, though I'm not sure exactly where Thurott gets the 80% figure. An anonymous reader writes "Remember that story about the city of Munich choosing Linux to power 14,000 desktop computers? One aspect of this story that most people don't know about is that up to 80 percent of those Linux desktops will be equipped with VMWare, a virtual machine emulator, under which they will run Windows and Windows applications. That's right, folks: The majority of those 'Linux desktops' will be used to run ... Windows." This Gartner report from early June seems to be the one mentioned in the article, though I'm not sure exactly where Thurott gets the 80% figure. An anonymous reader writes "Remember that story about the city of Munich choosing Linux to power 14,000 desktop computers? One aspect of this story that most people don't know about is that up to 80 percent of those Linux desktops will be equipped with VMWare, a virtual machine emulator, under which they will run Windows and Windows applications. That's right, folks: The majority of those 'Linux desktops' will be used to run ... Windows." This Gartner report from early June seems to be the one mentioned in the article, though I'm not sure exactly where Thurott gets the 80% figure. An anonymous reader writes "Remember that story about the city of Munich choosing Linux to power 14,000 desktop computers? One aspect of this story that most people don't know about is that up to 80 percent of those Linux desktops will be equipped with VMWare, a virtual machine emulator, under which they will run Windows and Windows applications. That's right, folks: The majority of those 'Linux desktops' will be used to run ... Windows." This Gartner report from early June seems to be the one mentioned in the article, though I'm not sure exactly where Thurott gets the 80% figure. An anonymous reader writes "Remember that story about the city of Munich choosing Linux to power 14,000 desktop computers? One aspect of this story that most people don't know about is that up to 80 percent of those Linux desktops will be equipped with VMWare, a virtual machine emulator, under which they will run Windows and Windows applications. That's right, folks: The majority of those 'Linux desktops' will be used to run ... Windows." This Gartner report from early June seems to be the one mentioned in the article, though I'm not sure exactly where Thurott gets the 80% figure. An anonymous reader writes "Remember that story about the city of Munich choosing Linux to power 14,000 desktop computers? One aspect of this story that most people don't know about is that up to 80 percent of those Linux desktops will be equipped with VMWare, a virtual machine emulator, under which they will run Windows and Windows applications. That's right, folks: The majority of those 'Linux desktops' will be used to run ... Windows."
Exactly. When transitionign to a new platform, any userbase is going to need to figure out how to transition their data over, find or create replacements for Windows apps, etc.
It's not like they're running Linux *just* to run Windows. I'm sure some of their apps will come from the Linux side, and some from the Windows side until their Windows apps are slowly phased out.
After almost 10 years of running Linux, I *still* have a small Windows XP partition for doing stuff like games or certain Windows-only apps. I spend the *majority* of my time in Linux, sure, this is still a very Windows-centric world.
My journal has hot
this has probably been stated a zillion times, but the article states 'up to 80%'. Now I'm guessing this would be necessary for those vital DOS apps that seem to populate large governmental org's, but it would seem pretty useless to have people first boot SuSE and then Windows for normal usage. Probably is just installed to make the transition easier (although I am curious how this will proceed, from a user-adoption pov)
:)
Secondly, have you seen the site? Would you expect a site called 'WinInfo' to actually give objective information? I mean, I don't expect objective info from the various *nix-aligned sites, but you always have to take religeous info with a grain of salt
This sig is intentionally left blank
Munich has many older versions of Windows installed, including Windows 3.1
They have to get Linux to get support for Microsoft apps. Microsoft's dropping NT. I think 98 is DOA as well, and 3.1 is long dead.
There are two points here. We can run your legacy Windows apps on a current and supported platform, ableit on VMWare. I'm not sure why they didn't use Wine - I'm not a VMWare user and don't know the difference between the two, but for companies that want to be able to look forward as well as well as maintaining their current processes.
Secondly, Is there a list of applications out that run on older platforms that need to be migrated? I don't remember but maybe 3 applications that went past 5 floppies so I may be out of line but I don't think that the scale is that big of an issue. Maybe there is a genuine need for these applications, and maybe that'll be another group of YA* applications that we can say are covered.
Any thoughts?
-B
Fun Fact About Those Linux PCs in Munich ... Windows. I'm not a big fan of Gartner, but they've issued a report, correctly titled, "Munich's Choice Doesn't Prove Linux OK for General Desktop Use," that raises some interesting issues. First, many of the Windows desktops they're migrated are very old Windows versions like Windows 3.1, making the switch to Linux less painful (it would be equally painful to switch to XP). Gartner says the cost of switching to Linux will cost 30 million Euros, or 3 million Euros more than it would cost to switch to XP, not including any steep discounts Microsoft would have no doubt provided. And finally, because most of the Linux machines will use VMWare to run Windows anyway, Linux is really being used as a hosting environment, and not as a replacement. In other words, this isn't exactly a good business case on which other companies can base a decision to migrate to Windows desktops. And, not coincidentally, that's why we're not reading about a lot of other high-profile Linux switchers.
And speaking about Linux stories you don't hear much from the Linux-loving mainstream press, consider the following. Remember that story about the city of Munich choosing Linux to power 14,000 desktop computers? One aspect of this story that most people don't know about is that up to 80 percent of those Linux desktops will be equipped with VMWare, a virtual machine emulator, under which they will run Windows and Windows applications. That's right, folks: The majority of those "Linux desktops" will be used to run
How do you save to a local drive/directory from an rdesktop session?
"Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
Moreover, if the admins mirror the VMWare disk image periodically, it's trivial to roll back any damage to the Windows installation that a user will inevitably introduce. Comet cursor and Bonzi buddy? Just roll back the disk image.
On the other hand, the latest pirated, 3d accelerated Windows games won't run well in VMWare, so users won't be tempted to install those. Again, that's great news for sysadmins.
Overall, Linux is just a great way of increasing the productivity of Windows users.
There's no reason not to send out all word processing files in RTF format. Then, everyone can read them.
First Of all, this is a Great migration move.
You get a Full Linux Backend, and Linux desktops.
But reality is, that you have all sorts of apps that are windows based, that are not easyly replaced.
so a good migration move is running, win 3.1 or win 95 or DOS 6.1. In VmWare which comes with SUSE in the Munich deal. antil those apps can be ported.
or a linux solutuon can be found.
all alrge enterprises , take along time for complex migrations. this is just part of it. its a great move.
-Nex6
Exactly.
I run Linux on my desktop at work, but I have an application that I need to do my job with that only runs under Windows (and doesn't work too well with WINE). So when I need that application I fire up VMWare and use it. Big deal.
Do you even know anything about perl? -- AC Replying to Tom Christiansen post.
To quote The Tick: "My God man! What's the point?!"
I made the the switch earlier this year, and it was sudden. I wiped everything and installed Linux only. I got the must important things working with in the first day (Internet, Evolution for email, galeon, koffice). Slowly, I got my other things working. I switch to Open Office which great. I use mldonkey for p2p and ecasound for recording demos.
At first I though, "OK, I can handle this". Now I can't imagine going back to Windows.
My point is, the most important Applications that you need are ready for Linux and Yes you can make the switch over night.
50% of those 80% will be running a dual boot XP/Linux under VMWAre.
:)
Linux under Windows under Linux....
Are they going to install the VMware Workstation on all their machines, run VMware GSX or VMware ESX? Anyone know what the cost per seat is?
"And a voice was screaming: 'Holy Jesus! What are these goddamn animals?'" - HST
I've been (and still am) trying to get average dummies to use Linux. Although Linux and KDE are improving at light speed they are just not good enough. Besides, even if they did, many equivlant programs for Linux are not mature enough. Yes, Open Office and other major programs are doing great but for certain need those little open source projects are extremly usefull and people need to use Windows programs. Unfortunately even dummy that I tried to switch to Linux switched back to Windows. Why? They ALL said it was buggy and not comfortable enough (personally I don't agree but that's what they all say.) What makes me sad is that us, the Linux developers and users, think Linux is perfect and kicks Bill's ass but it doesn't (yet). We should accept the problems and try to fix them.
I feel like a refugee from the OS wars. I had found a home and now it's occupied. Somebody tell me where I can go now to escape the FUD.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
They'll have lots of legacy Windows apps that will need to be progressively ported to Linux, so it makes sense to do this in a planned, application-by-application manner rather than go for a 'big bang' approach.
Furthermore, maybe only 50% of their users will need to run Windows/VMWare at any one time, so they may only need to buy half as many Windows licences as they have machines. Over time, this would decrease, as more and more apps get moved off Windows and onto Linux, and the number of users that need Windows decreases. And before anyone says "this is illegal", remember that we're talking about Germany, and they have much stronger laws restricting licence tying than they do in the US. I'm not an expert in German law, but this is quite likely to be "more legal" (if that term makes sense) in Germany than it would be in the US.
windows crashes as a linux session start it up again.
windows crashes while hosting a linux session you're offline until it reboots.
windows crashes a lot more and needs reinstalling a lot more.
linux at the bottom of the stack works a lot better in my practical experience, plus it gets you headed in the direction you want to go.
'There is a Light that never goes out.'
If they need windwos for a few apps I find it interesting they didn't use a solution based on a few big windows servers and rdesktop.
The other solution would be to try and use WINE, but I suspect that would be a great deal of pain.
They obviously have their reasons thought and would have investigated the options.
...that the Windows versions of these two apps run better under VMWare than in native Linux mode!
That's pretty sad when the emulated version is better.
A lot of people are acting as if people only use thier computer for word processing and email.
The fact is that isn't true. Alot of companies and organizations have in house software that was written for a specific purpose. to comply with their rules and regulations and what ever practices they have come up with.
Thse apps were written for windows and dos. they will have to be converted or found replacments for before they can rid themselves of windows entirely.
So we can expect to see Microsoft making life very painful for VMWare in the near future. Why? Well, they'll be leveraging their Connectix investment for all it is worth. Sure you can run multiple OS's on one box: as long as they're all from Redmond Washington. VMWare folks had better enjoy their success... while it lasts.
http://tinyurl.com/4ny52
This is not Reno deciding to pull back accross the Little Big Horn. This is not a bunch of master strategists deciding whether or not to let the Brits and Jews keep the Suez. This is not a "move."
This a bunch of IT fags who had to install some software because some other software didn't work with this new cool software they started using.
Perspective, people. This isn't 1999.
Some mod-troll devalued this post.
This makes sense to me, as I am doing the same thing to finally migrate over to Linux full time.
In fact, this approach has me using Linux MORE than when I tried to only use Linux apps.
By having a Win4Lin desktop running Window 98 just one click away, I feel much less silly with my self-enforced migration to Linux.
When I absolutely have to use Windows, it's there for me - no re-booting necessary. The majority of the time I can use the Web, etc. in Linux, and thus slowly, smoothly determine how much of my day to day tasks I can actually accomplish using open-source things like open office.
In other words, having Windows there is making me use it less!
I think, therefore I thought.
Yes you can make the switch over night.
Maybe YOU can. You probably are pretty experienced and can tolerate some downtime. Unlike you, a city can't just shut down for a couple of months until everyone becomes proficient with the new system. People can't learn something suddenly. If you ever worked in technical support, you would know that proficiency is acquired pretty slowly.
This is just the equivalent to 'checking into Betty Ford' for those users still addicted to MS Cocai^H^H^H^H^HOffice etc. No need to force them to go cold turkey.
Once they are straight, they can go off the VMWare medication.
MrCreosote Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump! "You're right! There isn't enough room to swing a cat in here!"
I can understand someone being a Linux zealot.
I can understand someone being a Apple zealot.
But a Microsoft zealot???
How hard do you have to be hit in the head to end up as one of those?
the most important Applications that you need are ready for Linux and Yes you can make the switch
Not if your most important applications are "Municipal Permit Tracker Pro" or "Federal Grant Writer Plus".
Linux has tons of OK general user software, but it's missing all of the vertical market apps that have been accumulating on Windows for the last 20 years.
Check the history. If you Google for Gartner and OSS/Linux etc., you will see that Gartner's reports are ALWAYS pro-Microsoft even when their supporting arguments are very weak indeed. So no surprise there.
By comparison, Bloor Research reports are usually positive about Linux and Open Source in general.
4. Allows users to continue with most of their work when the Windows VM bluescreens - reboot the VM and keep going.
Umm, they could do the same thing when Windows bluescreens. Most of the lost time is time between saves, not time spent rebooting.
Don't get me wrong, I hate MS and Billy Boy (I'd burn him like a witch if I wasn't afraid of the fumes) but for the cost of one hot server, a copy of MS Server and ~$80 per seat you could give those 100 seats access to Windows for years while moving the users to greener pastures.
"And a voice was screaming: 'Holy Jesus! What are these goddamn animals?'" - HST
I think you guys missed the obvious advantage of using VMWare to run Windows - you can reboot Windows faster in the case of the a BSOD :)
IBM's handling the Linux stuff and isn't even a German company. Jingosim indeed.
I've found that Windows is more stable when run inside a VMWare virtual session than when run on "bare hardware"
I have an Athlon 1800, ATI Radeon 8500, 160 GB 7200 RPM 8MB HD, Asus clone system running RH 7.3, and VMWare Workstation 3.2 as my primary development workstation.
I have *never* had Windows crash unexpectedly in a VMWare session, but when run on "bare metal", even with all updates, patches, and the latest drivers installed, Windows versions of numerous flavors crash at least daily.
I use VMWare since client side software must run in Windows - so while I develop in PHP-GTK for All desktop flavors of Windows, several Linux, and Mac OSX, VMWare allows me to test several of these simultaneously on the same machine. With 1 GB of RAM, I can run 3 guest operating systems along with the RH 7.3 host without things getting particularly slow.
VMWare's just awesome...
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
I've seen numbers like 2c/min for low volume lines. Rev. Pat is probably getting way less than 1c/min.
One interesting support model I'm seeing someone do right now is to have every single desktop running Linux and a Linux version of VMware, regardless of the "actual" client operating system. Boot the box, VMware starts, then without any manual intervention the client OS (usually 'doze 2000) starts up and goes full screen.
... the entire image can be pulled back remotely, then fixed/upgraded/replaced, and shoved back down to the actual physical location. Sweet!
Sounds silly? When there's a problem, or a need to upgrade, or whatever
The long-term answer to tech support problems is to migrate towards true thin-client or lean-client computing, making the actual desktop device irrelevant. But this is a nice stopgap.
Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
Have you considered an iBook?
I dual-boot windows, too. But I find that I only need windows for games. EVERYTHING else I can do in Linux now. It wasn't this way last year, but its improving at a remarkable rate.
This Gartner article seems to be warning those, that might be considering a Windows replacement, against doing it.
They seem to be saying: Be careful of the hidden costs when switching....blah, blah, blah.
This comes from the very same people that told you to ditch IIS article here Do you think these guys even considered the costs of re-writing all the ASP stuff that runs on IIS before making that recommendation?
Remember, when you combine "con" and "insult" you get "consult".
-ted
Absolutely ridiculous. To begin with, Windows supports by far more hardware than Linux, so having Windows as the base OS almost certainly gives one more flexibility in the hardware that can be effectively utilized, and the featureset that can be utilized.
Secondly, the old "stability" mantra is so dated that it really makes people look like they haven't pulled their religious zealotry out of 1997. Even as of NT 4.0 (presuming you didn't have ATI video card drivers on your machine) system crashes were extremely rare, with Windows 2000 upping the stability quite a bit further (over 3 years of intensive use I recall my own crashes relating to a, surprize, ATI TV Tuner card). With Windows XP this stability exists at the consumer level, whether you're a gamer or a software developer. Please show me some metrics proving that Linux is a more stable OS in actual day to day usage (i.e. not a "could be done better in firmware with a $4 chip" acting-as-a-trivial-firewall box, which is the usually pathetic example given).
I never thought about it much, but when you actually do the math, the long-term cost of Windows XP and Office XP, along with the added costs of virus scanning software, is way more expensive then Linux training. Let's pretend that it costs $300 to train each person how to use *insert Linux application suite here*. It would still sots at least $300 more per 3 year period for Windows XP + Office XP. And then, at the end of the cycle, you have to upgrade again......
Apparently not.
Around here the only answer to all of life's questions is Linux. Do not question the cult.
As with anything Thurrot writes, I am forced to take it with a large grain of salt. After all this is the same guy that says windows is more secure because there are less bugs in windows in bugtraq then for linux. Note he counts all historical bugs, regardless if they are fixed or not.
When someone asked him if he didn't think that the number of OPEN bugs in MS vs Linux is a better weighting for security, he ignored the question.
wininformant.com... I've seen a link to activewin.com too. And on top of that, the writer is suposed to be somewhere at Microsoft. Anyways, it might be true, but the story make it look like it's the end of the world for linux.
Munich has over 100 Windows-only custom apps! They can't be expected just to switch to Linux and loose those overnight.
That's the first time I've ever seen the word lose mispelled and it still worked in the sentence. Kinda cool.
Yeah I felt stupid when I read that. Ah well...
It's like having your cake, and eating it too! *cough* sorry that was lame.
I suspect that the actual users will become highly motivated to run VMware as little as possible and will soon learn to love linux (as they should).
Ok, in reading most of the 3+ comments here, it looks like most slashdot readers here, at least the ones with a bit of foss experience, know that having vmware on a fat client migration from windows to gnu/linux in a business setting is a requirement, and there is no such thing as immersion or shock implementations of FOSS in a large business or government, unless you are trying to guarantee failure.
What everyone should be questioning, however, is why doesn't Gartner know this? Or do they?
If you have been following the juggernaut of gnu/linux, you are aware that gartner is slanting every report they can in favor of microsoft. Quite simply, microsoft pays many of their studies. What would happen to gartner funding if they started coming out with stories that said that it is cost effective to switch to gnu/linux?
Do you think that microsoft would continue throwing the same amount of money gartner's way? Especially when execs and government workers, the majority of which don't know their asshole from a donut hole, rely on gartner's reports for purchasing and implementation decisions?
microsoft has billions to grease the wheels. Should gartner piss off microsoft?
microsoft was so desperate to not lose the munich deal that butterball ballmer cut short his ski trip to try and salvage the deal. And when they tried once again at the last second to underbid the foss deal (which they were already underbid), one of the munich officials considered it "insulting".
So now, microsoft has to do everything it can to spin this loss as best as possible. Claiming that vmware/windows will run on 80% of the desktops smacks of tactics used in the OS/2 wars, similar to the current tactics of hitting Newsforge and Slashdot boards with "Linux just isn't ready for the desktop yet". That's right. That phrase keeps popping up. When you see that phrase, review what went on during the OS/2 wars. If you are too young to remember, google the phrase.
microsoft will be spinning the munich loss for many years to come. This 80% figure, on munich desktops, is exactly this: spin. It won't even be implemented by 1Q04, and we already have spin that says that in munich, an IBM/Suse/linux win, microsoft loss, 80% of the desktops will be windows desktops because they have vmware installed.
What can Gartner do to make their reports more balanced? How about counting down time/reboots in their tco studies? Or counting how many servers a windows admin normally maintains, against how many servers a unix/linux admin maintains, in their tco studies? Or counting actual number of patches of actual number of installed and running services in comparable systems, instead of counting every patch of every application included in the major distros, even though microsoft has no functional equivalents, or is not running them on a particular installation. Does gartner include patches for microsoft office when comparing file servers? So why throw in patches for applications for gnu/linux distros that would never be included on a file server, as part of the total count?
In short, do you believe that gartner will do this? Have they done this in the past? Have you taken a look at their study that found that gnu/linux was cheaper only for web servers, and microsoft applications were cheaper for everything else on a tco basis? Have you taken a look at the criticism of this study? It's been covered here on slashdot previously.
The gartner tco study counted linux/unix implementations as costing more partially because linux/unix admins command a higher wage/salary. And higher technical skills. But they assumed that windows and linux/unix admins also administered the same number of servers. Anyone with extensive experience on both sides of the fence believe this?
What about hardware? No where in the gartner study did it mention or take into account that hardware requirements for gnu/linux is less than windows. No where.
Also, conveniently, the leng
A list of ways to create PDF files in Linux
1) Open office:
i) Version 1.0 Print to file and select pdf as file type
ii) Version 1.1 Save as PDF
2) ps2pdf:
Part of a suite of CLI utilities available for Linux to change file types. The utilities for creating PDF files and such are generally found within the ghost-script packaging.
As can be seen PDF creation is possible in Linux systems.
Heh, *you* can do it in one night, but you are one person. Important distinction. We're dealing with an entire city's infrastucture here-- infrastructure designed for windows.
/migrate/ thier systems. They need to use Windows until the appropriate software has been ported, or re-implemented, on Linux.
Also, you forgot about the custom applications. They don't make open source alternatives to custom apps designed for individual clients-- unless there is a reason to, which there hasn't been until the advent of this deal. As such, they need a solution to
Clearly they cannot complete this process over night, and as such VMWare is the perfect tool to buy them the time they need.
Windows rarely bluescreens when running under VMWare. I use windows in VMWare on Linux at work every day, and it's alot more stable than running windows natively.
A little bit slower, but not too bad
What's your GCNSEQNO?
Comments on this article will fall into 4 categories: 1. "They have some legacy apps that they will migrate from Windows to UNIX slowly, maintain stability and control" 2. "They betrayed us and are a bunch of publicity-hungry Redmondites!!" 3. "Well, obviously, Linux sucks so of course they're using Windows on top of it" 4. "All your base are belong to us"
You like your new Mac more than you like me, don't you, Dave? Dave? I asked...She said Yes.
-Yes, but only for MSN Messenger 5.0!!
ja voll!
Until the Linux camp can find a way to knock down this immense barrier to entry, it will be extremely difficult to move people from Windows to Linux.
The business case assumes that many applications will not migrate to Linux; instead, the bulk of applications requiring Windows will probably be Web-enabled and accessed through a browser. Munich will accommodate any remaining applications using virtual machine software, such as VMware.
How Paul Thrrott of WinInfo jumps to the conclusion that the "Desktop" won't be GNU/Linux and that they are really running Windoze is beyond me. I imagine the browser will be from KDE or Mozilla and the desktop will be KDE and that all normal applications, email, word processing, simple spreadsheets will be free and open software. That Munich can also run crappy old windoze stuff is a benifit that's not reciprocated on Microsoft's limited little GUI. Yet Paul would imply that this ablity indicates some kind of short comming in free software, hmph.
WinInfo looks like it was written by a crack smoking Microsoft Public Relations firm. Other nonsense on the same page include dreams of a surge of interest in Windoze as a web serving platform prompted by Bill Gates changing servers for his personal site, a rosy assesment of the M$ empire after failing to meet market expectations, and a piece playing down yet another major security flaw in windoze. There's neither logic nor dignity on that page. I've seen circus posters that made more sense and promoted more reputable things. Hell, I've seen more profesional things on Burbon Street. What does our Anonymous Reader do all day that he might stumble across drivel like that?
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Ha Ha
NSA supposedly no longer exposes Windows directly to the net. It is run on top of Linux using vmware. So, if good enough for the NSA, then it is good enough for me (assuming that we both have the same versions with all the same patches ).
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Wait...who's that knocking on my door...ughhhh...no...no, it was him not me ....
Is it really that hard to spell "lose" correctly?
r0 only has addressing restrictions where some load/store forms use the register 0 value in the encoding of the instruction to represent a 0 in the calculation of an address. There is no restriction on the usage of r0; it does not have the hard value of 0 like MIPS. It is a regular register.
isn't vmware another german company? doesn't this just seem to be a case of "buy german?"
That Munich can also run crappy old windoze stuff is a benifit that's not reciprocated on Microsoft's limited little GUI.
I don't suppose you are familiar with the concept of an X Server and that there are both Free and commercial X Servers available for Windows?
DCMonkey
I thought it was well known that Gartner was a division of Microsoft's Marketing department. See also their recent report that Apple's "switcher" adds aren't working, and that the mac is doomed.
I'm sure one of them found out there would be VMWare in the standard install and jumped on this fact like the Windows development team on the latest OSX innovation.
D'oh! Please be kind. I do realize (now) that that is not the same thing.
Stiil, it is an option.
DCMonkey
Okay. So we know that the guys who put *stars* around words for emphasis instead of, say, using a few html tags for a similar effect are dual booting.
That much has been established.....
Why not just run Windows? Is this some sort of way to dodge costs or is it a plan to move Linux in over an extended period of time?
I suspect that since people in general are more au fait with Windows applications (ask a man in the street what Star Office is and he'd go "whu??", ask him what Microsoft Office is and he'd complain bitterly about its shortcomings) that it simply makes sense to run them over less well known Linux apps. That way you dont need to re-train people and people get less irritated by change.
The only fact here is that no matter what anyone tries to say, Linux simply does not yet have the fully-fledged desktop application base that Windows has. Therefore it makes plain sense to run established software until Linux ports come along. The story doesnt suggest that VMWare will be used to run everything, just that It Will Be Installed, presumably to run stuff that Linux does not yet have an acceptable clone of.
Nice reaction to this story by the way, the Linux trolls are really showing impressive arrogance and pomposity as usual. Good on you guys, without people like you, Windows users might actually want to be associated with your OS of choice, instead of thinking you're all a bunch of degenerate bitter underdogs using a 'complicated' OS to look clever. An operating system is a tool not a religion or political standpoint, so get over it.
Note that yes I run Linux and yes what a handy piece of software it is too. I dont run Wine or VMWare. I have a Win2k box for that.
That site would make Joseph Goebbels proud!
Maybe YOU can. You probably are pretty experienced and can tolerate some downtime. Unlike you, a city can't just shut down for a couple of months until everyone becomes proficient with the new system. People can't learn something suddenly. If you ever worked in technical support, you would know that proficiency is acquired pretty slowly.
Absolutely.
My point simply was that it can be by individual users, not that it can be done overnight for an entire organisation.
Lets take a survey. I think It'd be on topic for this article. There are lists of alternatives out there but what's the first ones we think of? OpenOffice for MS Office is one, though I've read here that there can be annoyances using it with MS Office people. I haven't experienced it too much, though perhaps the Excel to Calc power users or users who use more graphics in their docs than what I see in my workplace uses may have another story. What have they been?
Financial, Mail, etc. Spicifically working with MS users, e.g. accountants may probably have to 'just pick one' until the bank goes OSS, with some exceptions since QIF format compatible tools for GNU/Linux like gnucash works, whether or not an accountant's point of view would be the same I couldn't say. Maybe a tool out there that works better? Another is a java-written tool that I found excellent - jgnash, found at http://sourceforge.net/. I'm fishing here, not 'pitching' apps. What's been your experience?
I don't like Joel or anything, but he covered this... basically, it may not be the victowee against Windoze you think it is...
[o]_O
Heh, *you* can do it in one night, but you are one person...
Right... That's all I said. I never implied that *everyone* could do it.
(1) As VMWare is used, it allows the users to have a maximum amount of compatability.
(2) As VMWare is being used under Linux to run Windows, Microsoft has no cause to complain.
(3) As for speed; The majority of the applications I assume are being used, don't require the mammoth memory and CPU overhead (I doubt the government is going to be playing Q3 deathmatch on their systems, or watching a huge amount of pr0n) that the average 'Doze or 'Nuxers need for their computing "experience". If you aren't using it for those, it probably will be quite snappy, because math oriented apps don't need nor care about DirectX, OpenGL, et al.
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
1. Start pro-Microsoft schpiel site 2. Post BS article filled with senseless extrapolations 3. Get noted on /.
4. ???
5. PROFIT!!!!
This is the most retarded thing I've ever heard. It has to be a joke...
Hell, I've seen more profesional things on Burbon Street.
Hey now, don't knock Bourbon Street's professionalism. I was very expertly pick-pocketed there.
If you read the Gartner report you will see that it doesn't refer to any sources at all.
At one point it says "Munich hasn't yet disclosed the business case behind its decision." and at another "The business case assumes that many applications will not migrate to Linux".
Note that the source of the business case is carefully omitted and it doesn't refer to Munich's business case as that hasn't been released. I read it at referring to Gartner's own ASSUMED business case.
The article is just another imaginary pro-MS Gartner report. Move along folks...
Our Federal Government just awarded Microsoft a nice fat homeland security contract recently.
These guys are a sloppy convicted monopolist with a poor security track record in general.
I am a tax payer and did not get a choice in that either...
Blogging because I can...
The subtitle of the column "An often irreverent look at some of the week's other news..." is about as believable as its content.
The author's reverence is pretty obvious.
Have you considered Together/J as a possible alternative to Rational Rose? It has great Linux support. The app was developed by the same team as IntelliJ.
"but Linux doesn't yet have support for many of the standards on which our infrastructure relies, like .DOC, .PDF, or MSHTTP"
.DOC and .PDF? What in the heck are you talking about?
.DOC documents that these sort of workers will be creating and reading, it actually leaves the files cleaner than does Word XP. .PDF???
.PDF output.
.PDF document viewer.
.PDF output.
.NET applications..."
.NET applications"?
No compatibility with
Not only does OpenOffice.org-1.1 fully support the majority of
OpenOffice.org-1.1 supports standards compliant
ggv is a very capable
Adobe even makes an X Windows version of their Reader application available.
Scribus supports standards compliant
And what in the heck is "MSHTTP"? HTTP is an open standard, which Microsoft has no choice but to implement correctly, when such a large portion of the web server market is Apache.
"With the proliferation of
Ummm... WHAT "proliferation of
We are talking about city services and employees here.
This "news" sight is one of the funniest I have ever seen, surly it has to be a joke. Whilst Im sure that a windows centerd site is off use to some people who could possibly need a sight with "apple sales down pc sales up" styl stories. Very very funny.
It often makes sense to maintain backward compatibility for a stage or two
Actually, this is great advertising for both VMware and Linux, as it suggests that the migration need not be that radical at all. I suppose MS would never want to emphasize how they aren't "really" migrating at all, as it is in their interest to keep corps/orgs in belief that in order to migrate, they have to abandon all their legacy stuff.
Actually, this Munich case is a proof that almost any org can migrate, without any special computer usage pattern (web uis only, for example). Perhaps, after a few years, they will notice that Wine will do all their remaining win16/win32 stuff.
Save your wrists today - switch to Dvorak
If they're making .doc's on Win3.1, they are not compatible with most of the world. MS was messing with the .doc format in Office95 and forward.
That is how MS used to push their latest versions.
I'll wait for the deployment to actually start before I trust anything published on a pro-Windows webpage.
With VMWare, they could run Win3.1 and all those apps, with a Linux base, and slowly migrate over to 100% Linux on the desktop.
When you're a city like Munich, you don't really need compatibility with the rest of the world. There aren't that many organizations bigger than you (aside from the national government) that you deal with. Everyone else will adopt whatever requirements you publish.
I say that we should wait and see what will actually be deployed and how.
Here are a few facts for everyone to chew on:
Let me also point out that this isn't some little "ThirdWorld" (tm, USA) country with no economics or tech savvy we are talking about - this is Germany - probably the economically most powerful nation along with USA, and the driving force behind Europe. These guys have what it takes to do an evaluation of this sort, and come out tops.
And they have proved that *again* with their decision to switch to Linux while also giving their users the psychological crutch that they will be able to use their existing windows applications. In one fell swoop, they have swept all objections off the table, and have set up a scenario where people will now actually begin using Linux/OSS apps, rather than just reading about them.
And as we all know, that is the *one* single obstacle that Linux/OSS has been facing in the past - getting people to actually try it.
Go, Germany! Show the world how it is done!
You aren't remembered for doing what is expected of you
> My point is, the most important Applications that you need are ready for Linux and Yes you can make the switch over night.
Your point is crap, and your lame answers to the other posters "yeah, but I was just talking about *me*" is SO much a lie it's ridiculous.
Geez, some people's kids..
Which does not necessarily mean it shall be installed on 80%. In fact that number seems like a wild guess and very improbably to me.
If installing windows in vmware, be sure they have to pay the full price. In that case it would be impossible that the "linux" deal would be only a bit more expensive as the "windows" deal would have been. It should have cost double at least in that case.
However, it is well possible that they use a few servers with vmware GSX (the server variant) to which many PC's may occasionally connect via the vmware GSX client to run a legacy windows application. In that case a few windows licences would do.
The source says the 80% figure is some bounding value used in the calculation of total costs of the bid not to be exceeded in the worst case. SuSE will guarantee a lower value when.
the Windows world tells itself and believes Linux is not a threat? If Linux weren't a threat, M$ would probably stop fixing the bugs in some operating systems, forcing an "upgrade" since they (think they) are the only viable option.
:P
Oh wait...
Seriously though, every time Microsoft says "upgrade or you will be hacked to death" they force people to evaluate whether they should pay tons of cash, get hacked to death, or try something else.
Plus, the idea of renting software... it just causes people to do some rethinking. Perhaps a business might have specialty software that WINE can't handle. However there are other cases where a business wants to run a secure web site, and has to decide whether or not to have a $4000 expense.
The usual FUD about Linux doesn't work any more so people like Silver are being a little more subtle, saying good things about Linux while sewing enough doubt to stop microsofties leaving the coop.
Linux isn't perfect but this article has only one aim despite his claims to the contrary and that is to stop people migrating to Linux.
If you need convincing of Silvers dedication to getting people to pay the Microsoft tax, look no further than here Note how the event is 'complementary'. Now who would pay someone like Silver for a whole morning devoted to selling Microsoft products and services?
Maybe they know like I do that you can run NT stable this way? There is something in the hardware abstraction layer of VMware that makes NT much more stable.
It also lets you run NT on hardware that it wouldn't run on normally (Sony Vaio C1XD Picturebook in my case). So they can keep NT and run it on any hardware IBM has on offer today.
realkiwi
This is quite possible -- VMWare emulates very vanilla hardware where as most PC hardware and drivers are, frankly, total crap.
Wow, apparently I know over half the people that use the XBox, including the 0.4!
- AlexI've been researching about Open Source.
Munich choose Open Source because O.S is a "strategy enabler". Cost came second.
Think it for a second. If something gives you flexibility and more choises for you strategy ultimately means that it provides you with more axis of freedom in your strategy. You can maneuver better in the long run.
I predict that this property of O.S will be more importand than cost in the future.
kanenas
The thing with the Munich case is that they already have Windows on their old systems. These licenses can be reused without problems.
See my journal, I write things there
Okay. So we know that guys who call an *asterix* a star aren't anonymous cowards like me. We've established that.
You've had a Windows XP partition for 10 years?
GNU/Linux desktops with VMWare for virtualized access to other systems -- be they legacy MS Windows, GNU/Linux, or other, makes tons of sense.
First, you've kicked the monkey off your back, er, desktop. The principle system is Linux, and the end-user application space is more than adequate for general business computing. Depending on the services SuSE and IBM can offer, the flexibility and management of this solution will be worlds above what a Microsoft environment could offer. And running VMWare on GNU/Linux to serve legacy MS Windows makes far more sense than hosting it the other way around given the stability, configurability, and performance of GNU/Linux.
Second, VMWare is a great product -- words I'm not prone to utter about proprietary software in general. The high-performance general system virtualization niche is one that VMWare has fully locked up. I've used the product since first public betas in 1999, and none of the other alternatives I've tried -- Bochs, Plex86, UML, WINE, or dosemu -- hold a candle to it for ease of configuration, versatility, stability, or performance.
Third, VMWare provides an awesome way to manage a large number of desktops. Within the virtual machine, the hardware configuration is identical for all systems. The only differences are processor speed, memory, and availability of specific peripherals which don't exist on the host system. However, all devices -- disks, network cards, sound, monitor, etc. -- are the same for any VMWare virtual machine. Any system-specific drivers and related configuration is a non-issue.
Fourth, VMWare allows access to multiple configurations, which may be accessed simultaneously. In part this is a box Microsoft has launched itself into with gusto. A trivial example is browsers: one side-effect of the tying, er, integration of MSIE with the legacy MS Windows product is that it's not possible to run multiple variants of an MSIE browser since version 6.mumble. With VMWare, it's possible to run different configurations of, say, Win2K and MSIE. It's also possible to run different legacy MS Windows OSs entirely: Win3.1, 95, NT, 2K, XP, and their variants. Simultaneously (a respectable system should be able to support 3-4 concurrent virtual machines if necessary). Support desks worldwide already find this invaluable. It's likely that Munich's aquired a motley mix of applications which run in a number of specific environments -- VMWare is likely one of the best ways to make these conveniently available to workers.
Fifth, the virtual system images themselves are nothing more than file snapshots. These can be stored and served centrally (again reducing maintenance issues), and eliminating again the overhead of creating and installing thousands of systems -- rather, a few standard file images are served centrally. User-specific files can be served over the network from your GNU/Linux Samba server.
Sixth, VMWare's rollback and checkpointing means that for a given image, it's possible to run a system either with no commits (all changes to the running VMWare image are lost on exit, great for highly specific tasked workstations), or can be committed or discarded as an option, on system exit (useful for development). In either case. backing up the image file prior to use allows for recovery later.
Seventh, once you've kicked that Redmond jones, "deinstalling" the now-worthless virtual system is a snap.
I'd say Munich's going to have an excellent, flexible, configurable, stable, and useful system.
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?
Claus
"Bei der Ermittlung des Mengengersts fuer die Lizenzkosten VMWare wird fuer;r die WiBE21 davon ausgegangen, dass fuer ca. 80 % aller PC-Clients (14.183), d.h. fr 11.364 PC-Clints [sic!] je eine VMWare-Lizenz beschafft werden muss." Quelle: Projekt Client Studie der Landeshauptstadt Muenchen: Entscheidungsvorlage, V1.11 vom 23.01.2003
in english:"The determination of the quantity structure for the VMWare-license-costs for the WiBE21 we assume that approx. 80 % of all PC Clients (14.183), i.e. for 11,364 PC Clints [ sic! ]one VMWare license each to be procured."
Conclusion: anonymous reader is well informed."Up to 80 percent of those Linux desktops will be equipped with VMWare," it says here (my italics).
Do you think they could be any more vague?
Let's mentally replace the words "up to" with the less-than-or-equal-to-sign <= to understand that statement.
In other news... up to 80% of people enjoy reading Microsoft propaganda newscasts!
The article reads: "...such as vmware...". This is very speculative of nature. Why not run Terminal Server if you have to? It is a lot less maintenance and you can us rdesktop or tsclient from the Linux machine. Performance will also be better.
These analysts seems terrified of Linux on the desktop. Why?
I've tried this. And was quite satisfied with performance, so I don't plan to install vmware
on my local machine.
"I'm not sure exactly where Thurrott gets the 80% figure"
As Vic Reeves would say "86.5% of statistics are made up on the spot".
Jaj
Okay. So we know that guys who call an *asterisk* asterix aren't clever like me. We've established that.
Maybe you had the comic album guy in mind?
Restarting the virutal x86 environment in WMWare is so much faster than rebooting.
This is a good transition move for Windows users as well!
Perhaps they should use something like skyOS instead.
... all the crashes will be virtual ;)
I fuse with Mercer every single day...
I've always hated that term "up to". It usually means the exact opposite of what people assume it to mean. For instance, a shop is having a sale. "Up to 50% off!" screams the poster in the window. Why would they want to put an upper limit on the sale? It might mean that nothing is actually reduced in price at all, for all I know. Surely the "at least" term is more descriptive. I'm much more impressed with a sale which advertises "Everything at least 30% off!"
Yeah, I guess. Old habits die hard. :-P
My journal has hot
Running Windows Media under VmWare, you can swipe the bitstream and copy DRM crippled content. Seeing as how blank media and CD-Rs are taxed in Germany, Munich probably reckon that they should get the most from their tax dollars.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Cost of VMWare license (per seat) - approximately $250 (in quantity)
Cost of Windows license (per seat) - approximately $200
Cost of legacy Windows software (probably Office) - approximately $300 (per seat).
Have to maintain Linux, Windows and VMWare.
It would undoubtedly have been much cheaper to just buy Windows in the first place. They are getting no savings from running Linux, and they are increasing their support costs.
WIll somebody explain to me how this can make sense? Did they already have licenses that they could transfer?
(Disclaimer: Neither German nor English is my 1st language. I recommend dict.leo.org)
The quote is discussing the improved offer made by IBM/SuSE after Ballmers visit. It mentions where the new offer shaves off costs:
Considerable savings were found since
[...]
based on its competences in questions of desktop migration The SuSE company was basically prepared to warrant significantly lower costs of PC-emulation (VMWare) through deployment of alternative emulation products or migration methods.[1]
[1] Partially because of caution in calculations the client study had assumed that 80% of the desktops would have to be equipped with VMWare for a duration of 4-5 years.
My interpretation: the 80% mentioned come from the orgiinal "client study". SuSE has said "We'll guarantee that you can save money by using win4lin/wine/whatever". The quote doesn't give the impression that VMWare would completely replace the Linux desktop. I'd rather bet that they'll be using it for legacy programs, but I'd have to read the client study to find out.
Any sufficiently advanced libertarian utopia is indistinguishable from government.
BTW: Did anyone notice ?
Nikos Drakos - one of the Gartner consultants who is the author of that report is the writer of the famous latex2html tool.
The EU as a whole has a GDP of about the same as the US.
you're only card
You've hurt my feelings; I am not only card!
Safari and Opera
Safari is based on KHTML, dick breath.
Rational Rose doesn't "only run" under Windows. I've personally used it on Solaris, and I see that they now have a Linux version out too. The Solaris version had a slightly sluggish GUI, but nothing to really complain about.
Check out the supported platforms page
...it's just as readable as some of MS's formats. (-:
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Well, the per capita GDP is $26,600 for Germany and $36,300 for the USA. Note that these numbers are from different years.
OTOH, Germany has a growth rate of 0.4%, while the USA has 0.3% (again, different years).
Seriously, most Win 3.x stuff is deleriously happy on WINE.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
The other point to note is that if MS-Windows crashes regularly, the people using it think nothing of that (another day, another document trashed), and don't report it. What's the point in reporting it? Nothing ever gets done about it. I see this regularly when empenguinning older machines - they crashed six times a day under MS-Windows, and continue to crash under Linux until I fix the broken hardware (typically a dud SIMM else replace the mobo). OTOH, people often report kernel panics under Debian because they are unusual and something will get done about it if it's Linux's fault.
When people read "Where do you want to go today?" they miss the emphasis. It's "Where do you want to go today? Not likely!" - and in similar vein, few people ever realise that the "My" in "My Computer" is one William Henry "Trey" Gates III, not themselves. Once you realise these things, you start to understand what MS-Windows is for.
If you've not seen any blue screens from XP recently, perhaps it's because you changed the default background colour. (-:
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
A solitary MS-Windows-2000 box finally made it over the two year mark (routine/mundane achievement for my Linux servers) towards the end of last year - but was promptly Slammered. Maybe again towards the end of 2004? (-:
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Probably the place from which he gets most of his figures...his posterior. Seriously though, he does not seem aware that the $3 million difference is after both sides made their deep discounts so Windows was not going to get relatively cheaper. Also, doesn't this seem like a move to slowly wean heroin addicts off of the bad stuff? I mean, why not just buy Windows instead of Linux, VMWare, and Windows unless your intention is to migrate users from Windows to Linux with less pain?
Personally, my primary desktop OS has been Linux since 1999. Besides occasionally rebooting for some games, which is getting increasingly rare, it has been anything but painful. Painful is using Windows NT 4.
...install a recent Mandrake Linux once, carefully and then edit the root password entry to be `!!'. If it works, don;t fix it. (-:
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
So, they put Linux on the desktop, only to run VMWare with a Windows sessions. Sounds to me like they have a lot of extra cash to pay for licensing. VMWare licenses AND Windows licenses?? Why would they do that when they could SAVE MONEY by simply installing Windows. If they really need to run Linux apps, build one (or two or three..) Linux servers and use Putty to tunnel an X session.
Complete waste of money and poor planning on this one..
geek n performer who performs morbid or disgusting acts, as biting off the head of a live chicken
This is an interesting speculation. Actually, the project proper will not be contracted out before 2004, and the fine concept hasn't even begun yet. So folks, calm down.
open (SIG, "</dev/zero"); $sig = <SIG>; close SIG;
I'm a *huge* Linux and FOSS fan. I work in an environment that uses Macs, Windows and some Linux. The Mac people I work with give real meaning to the term "zealot". They earn the title daily. If Steve Jobs asked them to drink poison koolaid, they'd do it in a heartbeat.
Something that I recently put a stop too (as I now control the budget) is the buying of Macs to run Windows based apps. For example, someone needs a laptop for travel that requires an app that only runs on Windows. Used to be that the Mac zealots would buy an ibook for $1,400 then buy a copy of Win2000 Pro for $200 and then buy a copy of Virtual PC for $300 in order for the app to work. Now, I buy a 1,000 Dell PC and that's it. It's a lot cheaper and the app works much better. None of this emulation black magic. This has really pissed the Mac people off as they hate *anything* from MS (except MS Ofiice... which they are fond of pirating).
With all that said, I'd have to make the same decision with Linux. Don't get me wrong, I love Linux and FOSS, but I believe in the right tool for the job. If someone is buying a platform and emulating another platform off of it, someone has put ideology ahead of business sense and logic. Especially when it cost *more* money, which in this case, it did.
The right time for an organization to think about switching operating systems is when their current applications need to be replaced. Decide what apps are needed, and then get the OS that supports those apps.
Changing an organizatin's desktop computing platform is invariably an expensive, lengthy and unpopular process. Switching to an OS simply for ideological reasons (like, "supporting" Linux) is bad business.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
it's the applications"
Microsoft is great. Whoo hoo! All my babies are named Bill!
I'm trying that now. I have this application that only runs on Win95, that I NEED to keep running. And the recent hardware isn't supported. But VMWare supports it...mainly. I'm having a bit of trouble getting sound working correctly. (This is significant, as the application is a music editor.)
OTOH, I'm considering this an interim step. And my intention is to move as many applications as possible from Win95 to Linux...this would be easier if it were easier to transfer files back and forth. (The shared folder system doesn't work with Win95...but I'll worry about that after I get the sound working. If I must, I'll use ftp for file transfer.)
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
With VM-Ware I take it that you don't need winXP (dunno, haven't looked).
If this is the case I would imagine it's a very shrewd move as it would remove the Windows XP spyware that feeds info about the software on your machine (and data? anyone looked) back to Redmond. With the Homeland Security thing taking off I can't think that Munich or any other government, local or national, would want a way for another countries security services to access their information.
The only exception is the UK that allows total intelligence transparancy to the US, an arrangement that isn't reciprocated.
I'm wondering they chose to go with VMWare and not Win4Lin. I've used both, and I'm much happier with Win4Lin. It runs as fast as native. You can't really tell a difference between running only Windows, and running Windows inside Win4Lin. Of course I have fairly outdated hardware (Athlon 600), so with beefier hardware the difference might not be as significant. One big difference that I like about win4lin is that it can access your linux filesystem much more easily. In the config you just map a directory in your filesystem to a drive letter in win4lin. With VMWare, you must share everything via Samba, and I could never get that to work with VMWare. Does anyone know of any reasons to use VMware over Win4Lin for using Windows apps? I know that there are some things that VMware can do that Win4Lin cannot, simply because VMware completely emulates a PC, and Win4Lin simply provides a layer on which Windows can be installed and run (so you cannot install any other OS).
We all go a little mad sometimes.... haven't you?
Where he gets most of his information - straight out of his ass.
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
At last, a site that makes us slashdotters look unbiased ;P
Hmmmmmm..... Deep fried and look like Squirrel.
I couldn't agree more. why was modded as a troll? Yeah, he was passionate in his response... but a troll, i don't think so. Of course the switch over to becoming a windows free desktop is not instantaneous. Of course there will be a lot of change to take place, but i think it is a step in the right direction.
You will never "find" time for anything. You must "make" it.
I think that's a bit unfair - there are a variety of reasons that one might want to run vmware. I do, and I certainly consider myself a geek. Look at it this way - you can use windows in the safest environment possible, ie under linux. But saying that there is never any program available only for windows that you might want to use...well, I'm skeptical. I use whatever tool works best for what I'm trying to do, and occasionally that's only available for windows.
Saying things like "if they were serious about the move" makes it sound more ideological than practical. Personally, I didn't switch because of some belief in free software. I switched because windows had locked my box for the last time, so I picked up linux.
Bottom line is I would disagree with the statement that only less capable people would see the advantages of having a cross-platform machine, as I think there are a number of valid uses.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
Let's look at the Munich news. Yes, Munich is going to be running Windows XP under VMware. What does that tell us? Two things. First, Windows XP is such a costly nightmare to administer as a desktop operating system that Munich prefers running it under Linux and incurring the extra cost of VMware to installing it directly. Second, Microsoft's monopoly, enforced through Office file formats, is alive and well, and there still is a problem to be addressed by antitrust regulators.
Overall, the Munich decision is a stinging indictment of Microsoft Windows on both fronts: cost-of-ownership and monopolistic practices.
As for Paul Thurott, the author of all that bogosity about linux, he is in the business of making money from Microsoft, so you can't expect him to do anything other than badmouth Linux and talk up Windows, no matter what the facts are. Basically, the more Windows sucks, the more books he sells. He is a member of that huge cottage industry that benefits from Microsoft's poor software. The last thing those people want is high-quality, reliable software, free or otherwise, because they'd be out of business.
(http://plug.linux.org.au/~leonb/)
I figured you'd be more objective.
Did YOU read all those posts ?
Are you doubting that my box has been up for that long? Sorry to tell you, but my background is a touch different.
Yes, please show me the "Good quality OSS X server". That's something I've been waiting for years.
We are Turing O-Machines. The Oracle is out there.
mmhmm
;)
nope, noone has scsi with SMP
BTW, Legal Aid Manitoba has switched its desktops to Linux, saved a bunch of money, and they're on the whole, very happy with the switch.
They're also promoting Linux to other government departments in Manitoba.
#define sig "Every social system runs on the people's belief in it."
All from the first Google page, yes. I've only got one lifetime to spend. But I'll bet you didn't do anything like that up front, just looked at the hit tally and assumed yourself into a corner. (-:
No, it happens occasionally (but if it bluescreens (or whatever colour) tonight, I'll laugh myself to tears), I have a mate with a MS-Windows 2003 server (I borrow it via rdesktop to test MS-Windows stuff) which has been up continuously for about 5 months, and another who only has to reboot his very busy w2k server about every 2-3 months.
But it doesn't happen to "everybody". It's normal for MS-Windows to crash (or screw up weirdly), even XP, even on good hardware; but noteworthy - often hinting at a hardware problem - when Linux crashes.
My own box, despite being an experimental animal with a cheap motherboard, goes down only for power failures and hardware changes (for example, I borrow the CD burner a lot for other machines, some of which don't have USB else I'd get a caddy for it). I walk away from open, unsaved document sometimes for the better part of a week, and no worries about whether it'll be there when I get back.
The (Billion BIPAC 711CE) DSL modem locks up more often than all of the Linux boxes in this house combined. My wife's box has a dodgy motherboard and croaks about every two months, she also visits lots of websites with dodgy JavaScript etc and has to wait for the "verynice" daemon to unscrew her browser perhaps once a day. My 13yo daughter's Linux machine has never died of its own accord, but she locks up her old Mac (OS 8) about every month.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
I'd bet he's spoofing his headers, perhaps to provoke certain proxies or spiders. Or just for a laugh. Doesn't your SMTP server advertise itself as a "Commodore VIC-20 SMTP server, anti-spam cartridge loaded, please press PLAY after each command"?
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
That sig looks kinda fimiliar ;) Damn, now i need to change mine...
Any clou who sait that, and which version is the "original"? i don't...
chears
I have discovered a truly remarkable sig which this 120 chars is too small to contain.
so let me get this straight
A=linux
B=vmware
C=windows
D="MS APPS"
E=implementation (you have to make it work)
A + B + E + D = 30 million
C(with huge discount) + D = 27 million
A + B + E > C(with huge discount)
A + B + E < C(without huge discount)
what part of TCO didn't you understand?
discount in value vs. stability
discount in value vs. scalability
discount in value vs. freedom
which one would you choose?
You need people like me so you can point your fuckin fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." So what that make you? Good?
Bah! If you notice and don't thank them, it's not good. Bill Gates gets you once a year or so with the same old software, sometimes updated with a new look or with the control center changed around. Restaurants, bars and whores all go through more effort for what they offer and sometimes have something you can't find anywehre else.
This WinInfo clown would not know the difference between Antoine's and McDonalds and does a poor job of hyping Microsoft's few virtues. Grief, the "another security flaw, so what?" is way over the top. It's like saying, "Ah, another customer get's the shits from a flaw tha affects 100% of our greasy burgers, so what?" Is there anyone out there who does not know someone who's windoze box has When you have to lie and when the lie is obvious, you suck.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I see no no mention on Wininfo that Netcrafts report shows that Colt (the gun makers) Windows 2003 server has been up and down more times than a whore's drawers, a problem they didn't have with Linux.
Hmmmmmm..... Deep fried and look like Squirrel.
X server allows running remote X software. There are somethings that won't necessarily work that well (kinput2 + canna), and some things which will just suffer in performance.
Now, cygwin is closer as a comparison, no thanks to MS.
You can build a surprising number of free software apps using that, and run them with decent performance.
I believe PostgreSQL still uses Cygwin, for example.
Yes, Microsoft is being forced to "compete" due to the price advantage of Linux in massive corporate deals.
But you can't possibly expect the retail shelf price to drop based on this! The retail price for Windows has ALWAYS been at the very least 30% more expensive than the OEM / volume license costs. Just because the business / corporate sales people have some leeway to slash prices means nothing to the average consumer.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
I think the use of
- *asterisks* (bold)
- /forward slashes/ (oblique or italic) or
- _underscores_ (underline)
are holdovers from the days of plaintext mail and online services. Perhaps there's more of a correlation between old-timers on PCs and dual-booting, however?...and you can't even do that under XP (or any versions of MS-Windows). If stuff's broken and there's no magic binary patch to fix it (that doesn't break something else critical), under MS-Windows it stays broken. Under Linux, there's practically always a way - and that post demonstrates it.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Is it broken ?
He didn't make his own kerneldid he ?
And guess what there are drivers/patches for windows. How does it STAY broken ?
JUST DO IT!!!
I understand the need for compatability, but I would think that Wine would fit the bill just as well and be a lot cheaper. Wine runs a lot of apps "good enough" today. Not perfect like vmware, but good enough. Use WineX or Crossover if you need more, and given the size of their needs they could pay one of them two to finish whatever they need that isn't supported. Not in all cases, of course, there are some things that Wine won't work with for a long time yet.
Oh, XP crashes for hardware as well, don't you worry about that. (-:
If hardware were the only problem, then at least 99% of all machines shipped with XP these days are flakey. And for the life of me I can only remember one occasion where a hardware failure leaked memory and wedged the machine (a Vax mounted on a marble slab floor at the New York Public Library, and that one was literally leaking memory, as in, leaking actual chips).
So is my Billion not running Linux. I think you just underscored my point.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Do you ever read stuff you link to yourself? Or is that somewhere Microsoft doesn't want you to go today?
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
I never have said that. I guess you don't really read my posts either, just scan them for what you want to see.
If you want to make a patch for MS-Windows, here's a binary debugger, better hope the DLL or EXE has symbols, good luck, <shove>. If you don't want to make a patch for MS-Windows, better hope that Microsoft have done it, and not buggered something else up at the same time (like borking the WMP licence forever, or re-enabling Slammer vulnerability, to name a couple of real-world examples).
OTOH, on Linux patches provided by others are generally swift, effective, and you can see exactly what they've done. Making your own mods is no sweat, since you own all of the plans and your OS's hood ain't welded shut. Not only do you own all of the plans, but you can inspect everything the software interfaces to, if you're curious, and see exactly how it all interacts. Great for security and reliability, great for learning, great for auditability. And Joe Random User need never concern himself, just urpmi or apt-get the nice timely update (possibly automagically), sit back, and enjoy the ride.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Someone must be bribed.
Everything is extra with Windows, a backup system (that works), secure shell, office, mail, update system and hundreds of management and remote access tools.
Someone must have gotten a kickback.
In no particular order:
One for every week of the year so far, plus a spare, sticking to people I know face-to-face and with a 100% hit rate on understanding - leaving out "cult figure" acquaintances like Linus Torvalds, Peter Anvin, Alan and Telsa Cox - and still going strong. If I wanted to hit the 60% comprehension level I could probably run that up to around 200 people. Now go and get a life.
<*>Yes, that's his real name.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing