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Review: Mac OS X 10.2 Jaguar
Oh, it wasn't entirely un-Mac-like. But it was different enough that I wasn't comfortable in it. I love Mac OS because of its ease of use and applications and interface and all of the little things. I sit in front of this darned computer for most of my waking hours, and if I am not comfortable with it, then it's no good. Life is too short.
Mac OS X v10.0 was a disappointment to me, and many loyalists to Mac OS. Many things in the interface just didn't work at all, or as well as, they did in Mac OS. Many still don't work right, including cmd+arrow keys to open and close arrows in Finder windows (half works: cmd+opt+arrow should open or close all hierarchical folders) and in dialogs with progress bars, such as file copying (doesn't work). The file dialogs, stuck in a column view, are, in my opinion, a glaring design flaw. In many places in the OS, you can't merely hit "return" in an active dialog to select the default button (if there is a default button at all), or "escape" to cancel.
But these problems were just the beginning. In 10.0, performance was bad, even on G4s. This improved significantly in 10.1, but Mac OS v9.2 still seemed faster. The entire Mac OS X UI -- while eminently "lickable," like no OS before it -- was tiring to look at. Anti-aliasing made things harder to read, especially on LCDs, even with the unnaturally large fonts in the Finder; many of the UI elements, including the aqua ones, often distracted the eye.
But in 10.2 (Jaguar), much has changed. The aqua elements are sharper, crisper ... perhaps shinier. Many of the UI elements, such as the Dock, are more subdued. The Finder has more options for changing the appearance of elements such as font size. Gosh, complaining about font size sounds petty, but darnit, it is so much nicer to look at.
The cursors are improved: the busy cursor has gone from an ugly rainbow pinwheel to a cute rainbow pinwheel (and how long before Steve makes it monochrome?). The arrow cursor has a better outline around it. The I-bar cursor still needs work; I lose it on dark backgrounds. In Mac OS, that cursor would change from dark to light when it passed over something dark.
Similarly, I also now lose my selection box in the Finder; in previous versions of Mac OS X, a selection box in a white space would appear grey. Now it is white, and invisible. Oops.
But while in the Finder, one of my old favorites is finally back: multiple Get Info windows. If you select multiple items at once, you still get the single window with all the items, but you can at least now open many Get Info items for individual items, one at a time. And you can get the old behavior of a single floating window ("Inspector") by holding down Option.
I still can't copy the content of a text clipping in the Finder. That's just insane. Open the clipping. Read it. Cmd-c to copy the contents to the Clipboard. This is a no-brainer.
It's all of these little touches that make a significant difference in whether I can comfortably use the OS on a daily basis. And for the first time ever, despite the problems that still exist, I am mostly comfortable.
And man, is Jaguar fast. Everything is just more responsive. Previously, clicking on UI elements would begin a delay that isn't there anymore. It's noticeably quicker. Even Classic seems quicker, despite the fact that Mac OS is no longer included with Mac OS X.
But I still can't do everything in Mac OS X, even with Classic. My UMAX (*spit*) scanner won't work, and likely never will; I use it seldom enough that it's probably a better use of my time and money to boot into Mac OS to use it, for now. I am having trouble getting reliable fax software to work, so I booted into Mac OS to use FaxSTF last weekend (I was going to install the 10.0 installer I have and then the Jaguar update when it comes out, but 10.0 won't install at all on Jaguar, so I am probably out of luck with that, though I am keeping my eye on Cocoa eFax, too).
But most important to my comfort is that all of the apps I know and love from Mac OS -- BBEdit, Interarchy, DragThing, Mozilla, Eudora -- work natively in Mac OS X. The operating system exists to host applications. They are the reason I use the computer. I want the same apps, and, thankfully, I have them. Further, much of Mac OS is still there, like QuickTime, AirPort, Keychains, AppleScript, and Internet Config (although this works somewhat oddly in some cases, and there's not much of a UI for it).
But the big question is: why should I use Mac OS X? If I am just trying to recreate Mac OS, why not just stick with Mac OS?
There are two answers. The first is a single word: Unix. I don't need to describe in detail why Unix is a Good Thing to Slashdot readers, but I will say that XDarwin and fink are two of the most important features of Mac OS X, and having a stable operating system is a joy. The stability of Mac OS certainly was pretty good -- ignore the hypocrites who used to praise Mac OS but now decry it -- but it can't match Mac OS X. That I can put my laptop to sleep, and wake immediately, and still have many TCP/IP connections open, is incredible to me.
The second answer is that new features are added to Mac OS X to make it too compelling to ignore.
The i* software suite -- iChat, iTunes, iMovie, iPhoto, iDVD, iCal, iSync, iProbablyForgotSomething -- are in many cases some of the best products to hit personal computing in many years. iMovie and iDVD are leaders in their niches. iTunes was a bit flat in its earlier versions, but gets more compelling in its feature set every year. iChat is actually a nice chat client: unobtrusive, mostly well-integrated into the system and Address Book, and easy on the eyes (it's also a little buggy; expect a few crashes). iPhoto is a nice beginning, but really needs better features for more flexible exporting of image metadata to be well-used. iCal and iSync aren't yet released, but by all accounts look very promising: how long before I ditch my PDA, or at least Palm Desktop's contacts and calendar apps?
Then there's Rendezvous -- the "zero configuration" networking -- which is only beginning to get significant use, but is sure to be a staple of many applications for years to come. Despite having some problems with printer sharing (making a comeback, finally) via Rendezvous -- I mistakenly had some computers on my network with a 255.0.0.0 subnet mask while others were 255.255.255.0, and this was enough to throw it off -- it requires zero configuration once you're configured properly.
Sherlock is now finally its own separate beast, with Find integrated into the Finder (imagine that!) and no longer is it scraping web pages, but it is enabled with web services goodness.
All of these features and more are only available in Mac OS X. If you want them, you need to switch.
Still, some things simply don't work in Mac OS X v10.2. The upgrade went smoothly, but various third-party apps, and even some Apple programs, had trouble. My chosen replacements for the Dock -- DragThing and LiteSwitch X -- both needed updates (Proteron says LiteSwitchX update should be available any day now). WeatherPop needed updating. WirelessDriver -- a serious boon to PowerBook G4 users who need to work more than 20 feet from a wireless base station -- no longer works, and it's not been updated in many months.
Apple Remote Desktop 1.0.x doesn't work; you'll need to run Software Update to get version 1.1. Unfortunately, even the new version only half-worked for me; the client side seems fine, but the Admin app says it is not installed properly. I wanted to just uninstall the whole thing and start over, but there is no uninstall option, that I could find. So I deleted all the files that the Installer installs, and then tried to reinstall, and the Installer says it is already installed. So now I have nothing, and I can't change it.
I thought for awhile that Apple's ScriptMenu didn't work, too; it was still sitting in /System/Library/CoreServices/Menu Extras/ where I had left it, but it was not launching. I searched for ScriptMenu on the discs and hard drive for information or a replacement, and on Apple's site, but found nothing. I was later informed the name had been changed from "ScriptMenu" to "Script Menu": the replacement was in the /Applications/AppleScript/ directory. Oops.
fink has a few problems, as one might expect with an OS update that sees a move from gcc2.9 to gcc3.1. Most of the things I tried worked fine without recompiling, including XFree86. But xterm and bash broke because of dependencies relating to the change gcc3.1, and manconf (a wrapper for Mac OS X's man) broke, because the Jaguar man doesn't accept the -C option to specify a configuration file. The workaround is to install fink's man, or at least remove /sw/bin/man in the meantime. The fink team is working to resolve the issues, and updates are forthcoming. An update for xterm is available on the XonX page.
SSHAgentServices, which sets an ssh-agent for the entire login session, stopped working; but the author of SSHPassKey, which I use to provide the ssh password to GUI apps, said he would integrate ssh-agent services into the next version of his application. Some of TinkerTool was obsoleted by 10.2, as Apple has added some of those preferences into their UIs, things like Terminal transparency, and what to do with newly mounted CDs and DVDs, so there's a new version available.
Currently, SharePoints doesn't work. This configures NetInfo to allow you to share arbitrary folders with any users via file sharing. So now I don't have a reasonable file server, unless I want to give everyone admin access to see all the volumes on the machine. But the author says he has discovered the problem, and a new version is forthcoming. This makes me quite happy.
There's also the long-standing and unresolved problem of AvantGo not working with Mac OS X. It's amazing that this is still broken.
I'm not making any firm commitments, but I am using Mac OS X as my primary OS right now, and it's the least painful it's ever been. That's more of a compliment than it seems. But there's enough that doesn't work, enough that's raw -- especially with third-party software -- that I'd recommend people who don't like pain to wait at least a few weeks, if not a month or so, to allow all of the issues to be worked out, tech notes to be published, and workarounds to be posted.
Some had to start making the hard changes. Apple is STRENGTHENING itself in the long run. I think most people on /. are warming up to Linux. Most "classic" mac users I know finally find Jaguar usable. For every complaint I've heard about OSX, I can list 10 or more features and reasons why we should ALL be using it. Starting at Apple's not-so-crappy Open Source involvement (gcc3 work gets back to the gcc3 people), to it's stability and use of Unix.
---gralem
And given AvantGo's recent slide like every other dot com there probably isn't much reason to think this will be fixed.
i wish i had to the $$$ to buy the hardware to run mac os x
From a few days ago:
Slashdot: Jaguar Reviews Pour In
I use Linux mainly for my own workstations & server on my home network, byt my wife is a diehard Mac user. After seeing her frustrations with Mac OS 9 constantly locking up and crashing (on a G4 even), I convinced her to upgrade to OS X. It took a little getting used to, but she was impressed by the fact that I can ssh in to her box now and do stuff on it without making her get up from her seat, and overall she likes OS X more than OS 9.
Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will say both no and yes
I was seriously considering buying Office v.x so that I wouldn't have to switch to classic everytime I wanted to run Excel. Switching to Classic is far less painful now(Launching classic and Excel took 40 seconds). Granted this is not super speedy, but it is a significant improvement.
My other sig is extremely clever...
Very nice review. Just wanted to put my favorite quote. it requires zero configuration once you're configured properly. That's classic.
The way the windows grow and shrink into the toolbar reminds me of ghosts flittering around.
Try PageSender available from Smile Software.
It provides printer-like setup and fax capabilities. Exactly what e've all been waiting for. it's a shareware, and makes use of OpenSource code like eFax.
It supports faxing my modem and web-based fax services.
THIS is the faxing solution that should have come bundled in the OS.
Unix has been around for 30 yrs+...
"I keep looking in the want-ads under 'revolutionary' but there don't seem to be any listings.. "
I may be asking a stupid question, but, why would you need to run xf86? Doesn't the OS already have a GUI?
Has anyone tried using audio applications not yet designed to run on OS X, like Logic and Pro Tools? Is the Classic environment sufficient to run them?
I'm a fan of OS X for the most part, especially if the speed issues are being removed, but have an investment in software that may be problematic on the new OS.
it requires zero configuration once you're configured properly.
I work at my university setting up studetn owned computers. I have set up a few Macs, even a 10.2 TiBook the other day. Networking is pretty easy. Select what device (Airport, ethernet) and tell it dhcp. No restarting. Web will then work. The only problem that I have ran acrossed is working with proxies. We have three proxies on campus, and IE 5.x does not like to work with the proxies to go outside of the intranet.
I have found away around this problem. I have to tell the system what proxy to use, and then hard code the sign in proccess screen, as the homepage using the same proxy. When IE starts up, the user is then given the choice to sign in (or if he is sign in to go the internet, it will say). Since IE doesn't like to use connection scripts, this is the only solution I have found.
This small problem is not bad, just wish M$ would fix IE to run connection scripts.
I helped my neighbor install OS 10.1 on his system and I am impressed. I am a linux coder and will stay there. But, I have no problem with ppl running Macs now.
auiqp unight ewowq
Apple have stumbled on wealth the right way: by producing an appealing product. With microsoft still producing bug filled, insecure garbage, that has issues with the software designed to run on it, as they weren't so willing to give proper api to developers, Apple's market share will do nothing other than increase. It's a breath of fresh air.
Aqua has indeed improved. Buttons, in particular, are more... subdued? It looks like they're trying to make things more functional and less flashy.
:-)
The arrow pointer looked weird at first, particularly when over a white background, but I've gotten used to it, and it doesn't bug me anymore. Over a darker background it's perfect.
I also have a UMAX scanner, and it may never be supported natively. I did find VueScan which also works on Linux, but I'm not really thrilled with the UI - guess I'll have to play with it some more.
I never really used Sherlock for anything besides searching for files. Thank god they've put that functionality back where it's supposed to be. I may use Sherlock now, but I'm not forced to launch it if all I want is a quick search for a file.
I recently discovered LiteSwitch X, and I miss it. You'd think Apple could make a decent task switcher. Under OS9 I was using the Microsoft Office Manager, which was just about perfect.
"The least painful it's ever been" sums it up quite nicely. It's only getting better, and eventually won't be painful at all. That hope keeps me going.
Why use OSX? First, the OS doesn't crash as often. Second, it's UNIX. I love being able to ssh to my Linux box from work, send a WOL packet to my Mac to wake it from sleep, ssh into it, locate a file, and use scp to send it where I need it.
Now if I can just get ghostscript to work, I'll be able to print from Linux to the printer on my Mac. I'm really impressed with cups.
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
"Linux will not be able to take over the PC desktop" is the best part of your post.
I have tried to run Linux as a desktop system since 1996 and have never been completely satisfied. The day I bought my G4 with OS X 10.1.5 is the day Linux died on the desktop for me. I can ssh/sftp to my servers (linux/solaris) and use wonderful apps that are unmatched on linux (Photoshop, Acrobat-Full, InDesign, FlashMX, Office-waiting for StarOffice).
Linux is 10 years behind OS X and I cannot wait for my 10.2 upgrade to come in the mail (thank god I waited to get my G4 until the 17th).
What I find ironic, is that my mom is using the most advanced unix ever at home, while I'm still futzing with Windows. I knew there was a reason I go to work.
I ran into the same problem with SharePoints and eventually had to move the entire pile of folders to my public folder to share. BAH!
And I'm still trying to get a VNC server that works on OS X, then I could pretend that I have OS X 10.1 at home.
See, I'd pretend 10.1, cause the connection would be slow.. :P
"I'd like to thank all the BSD developers who freely gave their IP so that I could continue to the wealthy life style a person of my status deserves. Without all of you I too would be eating Mac & Cheese everyday instead of my steady diet of sushe and fine vintage French wines."
You've got to look at the improvements. So you're saying the UNIX of today is the same as 30 years ago? Right.
It's just like (to use another car analogy) when Ford released the *new* Thunderbird. Yes it has been around for 40+ years and yes it IS NEW!
Amazing how some people cannot seem to catch on that things can be modified into something new.
Absent from the review is a discussion of iMail. I have seen that there are quite a few improvements planned, like auto-detecting spam.
Does anyone know: is it really all that good?
It's just that I don't really like Eudora, and I want some alternatives...
There are a lot (300+) user comments/reviews on MacSlash: http://www.macslash.org/articles/02/08/24/0410244. shtml
Orange
I know I'm going to get flamed to pieces for this, but isn't the i* software suite just doing what Microsoft did with Windows and Internet Explorer?
If you install your OS and get iChat, iTunes, iMovie, iPhoto, iDVD, iCal, iSync and whatever i* software they put in next:
a) are you going to look for/know of alternatives?
b) are you going to use them, especially if they won't integrate as well with the OS and other apps as well as Apple's i* series will?
Surely the point of taking Microsoft to court for bundling IE and therefore slaying the browser market was not just to get at Microsoft, but to prevent OS vendors from dominating and killing off large sectors of the software market?
Just recently had my first proxy experience setting up my gf's iMac for UVA. Mozilla worked just fine from off campus using the proxy.
Actually, Steve's a vegan. Tragic, but true. So you might want to amend that to "...would be eating veggie dogs and oatmeal every day instead of...," uh, does anyone know what rich vegans eat?
There they were, sitting in the van with all those dials, and the cat was dead. -V. Marchetti, CIA
Sheesh. You want Unix but you want it to work just like an operating system designed in 1984? This is silly, these absurd expectations.
OS X, 10.1 runs fine, if a bit sluggish on my 9500. To hear people complaining about its performance on G4s makes me laugh. I don't buy it-- I think this is just an excuse from people who are too grumpy to switch from OS 9.
I made the transition from OS 9 really easily. The UI? Much better in 10. The cruft? Gone in 10.
Umax doesn't support OS X? Bitch at Umax, not Apple. Some software breaks? Well, those are the breaks-- probably the person who made it will fix it. But Apple hasn't done anything wrong (Except provide some nice features in 10.2 tempting us software makers to make our products 10.2 only.)
To completely gloss over the fact that OS X is a new OS (not a warmed over version of NeXT) with a lot of new fiatures, and complain (and complain and complain) about the fact that its different than 9 is absurd.
If apple had shipped something that looked like OS 9, the OS would have been a complete failure. Instead they shipped something good and made a break with the past-- its about time. 15 years with the same UI is too long... and now they can migrate and update the UI much faster so it doesn't get stale, crufty, and pointless like OS 9 was getting. (Note the changes in 10.2, every button is different, etc.)
ITs time for a moratorium on OS 9 whining. IF you don't like 10, don't switch. But don't complain that you can't have your cake and eat it to. Its absurd.
Yeah, and you guys panned the ipod too: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23
There are still a few kinks though. Many of my favorite Haxies stopped working. Several apps with kernel extensions need to be reinstalled. And a warning: Jaguar Printer Sharing is completely incompatible with OS 9 Printer Sharing, in both directions. I was hoping this would be the update to let my home network finally work, but it's not going to happen.
So I waited in line at the Mall of America to get Jaguar on Friday night (the whole tirade about that is in a recent posting in my livejournal). Prior to this, I upgraded my 500MHz dual-USB iBook from 256MB of RAM to 640MB. It seemed a bit snappier, and things definitely went more smoothly while running with tons o' apps.
Enter Jaguar. Faster, snappier, crisper. This was worth the wait and worth the money. The integration between the basic iApps (iChat, Mail and Address book) is <cartman>sweeeeeet</cartman>. None of my major apps required updating. I haven't spent that much of a weekend futzing around with an OS (and enjoying it) since 10.1 came out.
Minor tidbits: the firewall GUI is nice. PHP is now part of the standard install (however you may want to visit Mark Liyange's page to see how to re-enable a lot of the functionality that Apple dumbed-down. (This page also has package installers for MySQL, Ruby, and tons of other cool stuff.) The Mail app seems to be pretty adept at identifying spam...and getting better and better over the last couple of days...and the bounce-to-sender feature makes it look like you don't exist anymore...it's not perfect but it seems to have reduced the incoming flow by about 10-15%. iChat, a little buggy, but nice...I thought I was going to hate the voice-balloon interface, but I discovered that, strangely enough, it's easier on the eyes than multiple lines of text.
All in all, I'd say that they've outdone themselves again.
blog |
The day I've installed Linux/PPC is the day Mac OS died on the Mac for me.
Less is more !
Dude, gotta check out this Desktop picture! It's completely OpenGL with the fish swimming around and stuff ....
... Here's the script I used to do it.
Since it's a complete OpenGL Environment it takes 2 seconds to launch any OpenGL screensaver to be your wallpaper
I originally was using the Desktop Effects program.
10.2 is much faster than 10.1 on my DP533. So far, almost every program launch that I have seen takes 1 Dock bounce. I think I saw 2 bounces once, but I don't remember now which app it might have been. Everything just zaps across the screen, even with my puny GeForce2 MX.
Love the new Get Info, especially the integrated ownership/permission view and change options. Love the file find integrated into the Finder and it's fast, too.
One feature I haven't heard mentioned much, is the better user account management. I have 3 kids and now I can set up their accounts restricted to do only the things I give them access to, and they can't wander around the filesystem accidently trashing stuff that I forgot to restrict the file permissions on. Really nice.
New Internet sharing and built-in firewall "just work". I'm planning on buying a new phone just to get the new contact and calendar sync features with iSync and iCal. It will be great having Apple write the sync software, not having to wait forever for Palm or Microsoft to remember Mac users.
I was an early adopter of Mac OS X 10.0, mainly for Unix features and stability. Now Mac OS X 10.2 rocks in a lot of other ways.
Thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou. I can't stand people like that, and they come with every OS. I've heard it plenty from Mac people (all along telling me how infinitely superior to Windows it is, then once Mac OS X comes out, all they have to say is that 9 was an unstable bag of shit but OS X is really it) and Linux people as well, as we went from 2.0 to 2.2 to 2.4 kernels. Also cars, video game consoles, etc etc etc. I hate those people.
Also, the rest of the article was good. I'm not a fan of OS X, but we just got out Jaguar discs in today, and I'm about to head upstairs to get mine and try it out.
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
If Mac OS X.2 features GCC 3.1, with GCC 3.2 having just been released to 'stabilize the C++ ABI' are Apple setting developers up for a bunch of problems by shipping a buggy compiler?
Also is there likly to be any fallout with 3.1 ABI not being compatable with the 3.2 one? I would guess not until apple release next mac os toolkit?
MacOS X based on BSD is light years ahead of linux. linux will never catch up and will always be unstable and slow under load. We need to concentrate our free software development efforts on advancing the state of the art in BSD, not redoing what's already in BSD just due to NIH.
It's an OPTICAL DISK - a legacy NeXT UI element, which had, until now, been left in OS X as a little 'tip of the hat' to NeXTStep 3.x.
It's understandable the Mac folks want all the niceties of post 7.2 MacOS restored to the new system. After all, these are Macintosh computers. Still, there are sentimental attachments for old NeXT users -all twelve of 'em. It's a pity to se the last of this Grey Lady slowly subsume into the Aquatic realm...
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
I am a bitter old man. I hate change. Mac OS -- not Mac OS X, which is a different OS -- in its various iterations has been my OS of choice for over 15 years
Quotes like this remind me of the crazy people who pine for the days of MS-DOS, because they're convinced that OS is cleaner and faster than Windows.
I bet you haven't touched a single OS 10.2 box yet. All that you wrote was an amalaga of rant reviews any mac user would have read already. Sad when journalism falls this way, then again we are in the land of Jon Katz....
I don't know why but OS X may be way ahead of its hardware.
iChat is actually a nice chat client: unobtrusive, mostly well-integrated into the system and Address Book, and easy on the eyes (it's also a little buggy; expect a few crashes).
That seems that a bad design choice. It has a Microsoft feel to it , where applications have the ability to mess with each other and end up being unmaintainable or break basic security models.
From a social viewpoint, folks who use AOL prefer having different identities and not have their real name from Address book show up to the whole AIM world. Hence integration does not seem to be very usable by real people.
"Linux is 10 years behind OS X"
Well if I had source to the OS 9 API and the Next API at my fingers like Jobs did it would not be hard to adapt linux for the desktop. Currently we only have this part of the way with GNOME/KDE/GnuStep. Untill we can provide a easy path to migrate Win32 via GTK-Win32 and Mono with WINE then migration off of a Windows Desktop is a pipe dream.
Free Unix? Free Windows. http://www.reactos.com
God forbid this conversation on apple.slashdot.org should actually be about Apple's operating system. No, no, can't have that. Have to co-opt this conversation for the Linux crowd.
Only on Slashdot would four people have found this comment "insightful" while no one modded it "off-topic." Bah. Complain, complain.
Good point. I've often thought it would be fun to go back in time with maybe a new Linux box and a new Mac with OS X and show them what became of "their" Unix. I think it would suprise the heck out of them.
It really shows the flexibility of such systems, while retaining the good parts.
Moon Macrosystems. Sun's biggest competitor.
Most of the MacOS users don't see that OS X is bringing (back) a lot of developers to the Mac platform. I stopped working on the Mac a couple of years ago. I restarted to develop on this platform only because of OS X. Developing on the OS 9 was terrific (no memory protection, etc.). This is a BIG plus for the future of the Mac, because without small and creative developers innovation is dead ! Always the same heavy monolithic applications for years and years... A lot of things are happening around OS X these days, it's alive, it's moving... OS 9 was just a dead thing (on the development side).
Regarding the mention of drivers for wireless pcmcia cards not being available for 10.2 and http://wirelessdriver.sourceforge.net not having been updated in months;
An announcement was sent to the wirelessdriver announce list over the weekend stating;
=-=-=
Hi all,
I've (finally) posted a build of the driver built for OS X 10.2 to my iDisk. The can be reached via the following URL: <http://homepage.mac.com/robm>
This installer is a preliminary release. I will post to SourceForge in the usual place and make an announcement to VerstionTracker once I've had a few feedback reports.
This build is, essentially, a top-of-tree build from the CVS archives. I have made several changes to it to support compilation under Jaguar and have added a few lines of code towards trying to solve the AppleTalk issue, although I haven't had any opportunity to test that yet.
Let me know how you make out with it and I'll get whatever changes done that need to be made and make a final announcement.
-Rob McKeever
robm@mac.com
=-=-=
it requires zero configuration once you're configured properly
.... Um. I may have missed something, but isn't this the way all software works? I know that, once I've configured something properly on my LFS system, it requires zero configuration after that...
get 0wned. irc.w30wnzj00.com
Sheesh - A guy writes a long thoughtful piece on why 10.2 is better; simply put because it is and it is more usable and half you people criticize him for liking what he likes because he likes it. Because it serves his purposes and does not require him to worship at the altar of that which is kewl.
My God - I hope you people don't run Homeowners Associations. Your neighbors would probably have to paint all their houses your favorite color because 'it's the right one'.
That I can put my laptop to sleep, and wake immediately, and still have many TCP/IP connections open, is incredible to me.
I would agree that MAC OS X being a UNIX is
much more stable than older versions.
But most folks I know will not change
until they are use their 56K modem to
connect reliably to the internet.
The v90 modem scripts have been completely
flacky in Mac OS X , and most users boot up
OS 9 when they want to connect to the internet.
Apparently you haven't *used* a Mac. I've been trying literally for *years* to move to Linux as my primary desktop OS and it just is not there. Period. Apps don't work together - it's aweful.
I still use Linux and other *nices as my server OSs (that's not changing - ever) but on my desktop OSX is soon going to rule to roost. I've bought my last PC.
Seriously, *try* a mac. Try to do everyday things - it just works - not all the time granted, but most of the time - which is a huge improvement over every other OS out there.
A|Q|U|A
ArsTechnica's John Siracusa, he's had the best reviews of OS X throughout it's life (from the Developer Previews right through to 10.1). I'm not going digging for URLs, but IMO he's the journalist who's had the single largest impact on OS X's development, and his reviews are always worth reading.
-- james
Besides that point, can you really compare the crap M$ included with it's OS and the quality apps that appear in Max OS X? Compare MovieMaker to iMovie. Compare the crappy picture viewer and it's little green arrows in M$ to iPhoto. WMP to iTunes? No comparison. Don't like it? Get gentoo and compile from A to Z. Otherwise, there are a few million of us that just want to USE our boxen to enjoy our music and pr0n, and don't want to read through a bunch of man pages or crappy O'Rielly books just to get something to work.
I saw Mac OSX demonstrated when someone from Apple demonstrated their Web Objects product. As a NeXTSTEP fan and Window Maker and GNUstep user I was impressed, but I missed the NeXTSTEP scrollbars. These scrollbars have both arrows at the same end of the scrollbar, the scrollbar is at the LEFT of the thing being scrolled, and the thumb never gets too small to grab with the mouse.
In OSX you can optionally move both arrows to the same side of the scrollbar, but there is apparently no way to move scrollbars to the left side of a list box, for example. Having scrollbars on the left works a lot better. Try it once and you'll never want to go back.
The Apple guy, who used to be a NeXT guy, seemed to agree with me.
It is nice to have Innovation at Apple again in the field of GUIs. Remember Mac 84 = Windows 95? Windows is a very bad GUI compared to the Mac Finder (what they used to call the Mac OS). And XP just doesn't compare to Mac OS-X. The difference between OS-X and Windows is the difference between a product/customer oriented company and a product/sales oriented company. Sure, Apple isn't as big as Microsoft, but whose computer karma would you want; Steve Jobs's, or Bill Gates's?
ttyl
Farrell
CAN-CON 2019 - Ottawa's only book oriented Science Fiction Convention! October 18-20, Sheraton Hotel, Ottawa, Canada h
So when did RedHat start making you hip, progressive, cool, desirable, et cetera?
Apparently you missed out on a little event in our history - PERSONAL COMPUTERS.
PCs made it possible for everyone to do crazy amounts of work (not always a good thing, mind you) and for Joe Average to do this, you need an interface. The MacOS supplies this, as does Windows. Linux, however powerful, just wasn't useful for businesses.
The Interface is the thing, wherein the people's loyalty I will bring.
You may be in love with the command line, but not many people are. I enjoy working on the command line - it's an easy way to get some work done. But most people don't. If you can't see that, then you are foolish, or you are dumb.
Mac users are too nostalgic? Why, because we has something that we liked and was good and we want it back, and that's unreasonable? We aren't talking about childhood here. A good OS isn't something out of which technology had to grow. A good OS is something we can and, moreso, should have.
Maybe you forget that Linux evolves and grows faster than a normal OS? 10 years put Linux where it is now. Two will make you eat your words (or your "lickable" OS). Linux has just now started to become a desktop OS. Macs were always designed for that. Maybe it was the Mac that was behind the times?
It was about apple. I was praising Apples migration of third party applications and telling the linux desktop crowd why they will never have a Windows desktop killer. I work on ReactOS, WINE and Mingw but I welcome OS X comming in and removing my need to clone the POS known as Windows.
Free Unix? Free Windows. http://www.reactos.com
If you want to see the shell script that's ultimately under this, Apple made it in csh.
A decent csh (or tcsh) script for running ssh-agent at login is described by apple Here. I have the "terminal.app" on my dock, and the script described goes into my login. I just have to run ssh-add, and from then on my applications do fine.
I rewrote it for my
The wireless driver for wavelan/prismII/etc does work under jag- you just need a couple modifications to allow the .kext to load (10.2 has a newer security model as to what can be loaded as a kernel extension)
a d_id=999552&forum_id=3055
check out http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thre
Apps don't work together - it's aweful.
>>>>>>
I hear vague stuff like this all the time. I think its just Mac users who can't get used to something different. I know, personally, using WinXP on the occasions I have to is painful, since I simply don't like the Windows ways of doing things. Yet, I wonder how much of it is real and how much is perceived. Exactly *what* don't you like about Linux (probably with KDE 3.0, given that its the most advanced Linux DE out right now). Like as in list form, referring to specific applications.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
I went to the 100 Minutes event and picked up my copy of Jaguar and upgraded that night. Machine is a plain vanilla Quicksilver, 17" LCD and a Viewsonic PS790 monitor. (Dual heads are nice.)
Overall I would agree that things are much faster in Jaguar. Quartz Extreme definitely makes a difference. Scrolling windows in IE, Mozilla, Word, Excel, etc. are all faster. The UI in general feels crisper.
Now the issues:
Well that's enough griping for now. Overall I would say that once these issues are ironed out Jaguar is going to make the best desktop Unix out there.
MarkX
I have never in my life heard an interface referrered to as 'eminently "lickable,"'. I mean lickable, WOW! That's the interface of the future, taste! Imagine browsing your files by running your tongue all over them. (Warning: Windows may REALLY leave a sour taste in your mouth)
I am one of those unfortunates who has used mostly Macs at home and Other Systems at work. It always made me want to get home. . . .
I am particularly impressed by Quartz Extreme rendering and the resulting improvements in video perfomance. Quicktime seems like a new animal. The system is faster on my Quicksilver duallie, from boot (time dropped in half from 10.1) to launching apps to mounting discs.
When I first used 10.1 I thought it was very stable and neat, but lacked the finesse I expected from Apple. As promised, that elegance is coming back.
Shared printing -- and home networking in general -- is so easy now that I've heard many people, not believing they needn't enter numbers, wondering aloud how to get it to work.
For me and a lot of people, I think the hardest part of switching from 9 to X is the hardware stuff: printers, scanners and legacy ports that the new system doesn't support the way OS 9 does. But the reality of better memory allocation and true multitasking make the experience of running many apps or doing several things at once far easier on the nerves.
It's worth it.
Imagine a Beowulf cluster of neurons.
There are network fax servers like LightningFAX and XMediusFAX (a nifty one that works on VoIP!)that support Macs via a Web (Java) client, and can be seen as a Windows network "printer" too. Sadly these aren't native OS X apps yet, but if enough people petition the maker (Interstar) maybe they'll port it to Xserve.
What a load of crap. Go back and read your post again. I'll even make it easy for you. Here:
OS X would not be what it is if apple had not provided a migration path of legacy applications and apis. Linux will not be able to take over the PC desktop market untill developers start to provide a framework via WINE and Mingw/Cygwin to move applications off of win32 to Linux/GNOME/KDE.
What is needed? A common OpenSource Win32 Api, DirectX and COM/DCOM shared by WINE and Cygwin/Mingw. A common documentation system would that allows for easy import of ms-html help. Once this is done it should easy to rebuild todays MS_VC applications with Mingw/Cygwin and then work to a total Linux rewrite.
You mentioned the name "Apple" once, and you didn't even have the courtesy to capitalize it. The rest of your post was about Linux blah-blah. Your observations may or may not be correct, valid, or insightful; I have no opinion, because they are off topic here. I'm still grouchy.
Well I have nothing I can add to what has already been said. I have a simple question though. Maybe its just cause I am use to windows and suddenly switched to an iMac but am I the only one that would like to have the ability to sort files with the folders first and the individual files last, or the reverse? As for everything else I love MacOS X and I am much happier on my mac than I ever was on a windows machine.
Oh and yes I know I can sorta by file size but that isnt accomplishing my goals.
none Yet.
On Windows, I cannot delete IE. End of discussion. Microsoft says the OS will break. The Mac OS won't break if you remove iTunes.
The iApps are more or less "value-added" applications. If you buy a Dell, it will come with some Dell-sponsored camera software, possibly a media player, etc. Here is where the iApps fit into the picture. They are value-added features, and they can be easily removed.
I have seen hints of new MIDI capabilities being built-in to 10.2, such as a MIDI options control panel. This will be a major jump forward from OS 9's 'support' of MIDI (Open OMS? bleccch!). Has anyone had the chance to look into 10.2's MIDI capabilities? Plug in any MIDI devices and see if it does anything?
Unfortunately, Rendezvous doesn't fix many of my pressing networking problems. Apple should definitely be bitch-slapped for their claims of networking interoperabiltiy when SMB works if you have a newtwork server, but not if you're using peer to peer networking! I think that far more home users have peer to peer networking rather than have some network server sitting in a closet. Consequently, I can't connect to any of the other machines on my network that use SMB.
My other machines also can't connect to my Mac because the 'Windows Sharing' insists that you add a user name for each Windows user who you want to allow connections from. However, most of my other systems run such things under the user name 'nobody', which you can't add to the 'Accounts' preferences. Even if I come up with other user names, each one has to be manually added one at a time, which is a real pain. Even then, my OS/2 and eComStation boxes refuse to connect with my mac.
The DNS-less stuff doesn't work either. It doesn't find any of my other machines. All I want is a nice simple host table . On Linux or OS/2 I could easily add all of my host table entries in under a minute. Unfortunately, Mac OS X doesn't support the host table except in console mode. Instead there's NetInfo and a 98 page document that that you need to read to understand the intricacies of NetInfo, but doesn't actually mention how to map hosts to IP addresses! I'm really tired of typing in IP addresses that start with 192.168.0! Please, someone, tell me I'm an idiot and have missed the obious solution, I'd love to see a solution to this. While you're at it, have a look at my MacOSXQuestions page and tell me that I'm all wrong and that there are simple solutions to my Mac OS X problems... please.
Signatures are a waste of bandwi (buffering...)
... to the Apple OS family but I think I'll stick to Maco OS 9 because...
Error: This message is too long, would you like to allocate some more memory?
Then why the heck does Unix still rely on rwx permissions? Even Novell Netware and Windows NT have a better permissions/security scheme with WinNT/2000 having native ACL support.
> Apparently you haven't *used* a Mac.
Actually I have a Mac Powerbook - it's a dog and hardware limited to 48meg of RAM. It crashes doing difficult tasks, like reading email.
> Apps don't work together - it's aweful.
What does this mean? Should my browser somehow work with my word processor? In what way? As far as GUI apps under X, they all seem to work together in the ways that I need. The console apps ALL work together in ways that make complete sense as well.
>>>>>Seriously, *try* a mac. Try to do everyday things - it just works - not all the time granted, but most of the time - which is a huge improvement over every other OS out there.
I've never tried OSX, and to be honest I don't think I'll ever get the chance because the hardware is darn expensive.
You know you're a geek if you've ever replied to a tagline.
This is a very new port that depends of XFree86 to work. The speed of OO is just fine on Linux and Windows. Give OS X OO a few more months and try it then. A native Quartz version that has no XFree dependency is in the works but that will take some time. There are good reasons why they called it a "Developer Prerelease".
...would be your best bets for new all-in-one audio apps. I had so many flaky problems with pro audio under OS 9 - I'm glad to see it go, frankly. The new OS has a much more robust architecture.
"You mentioned the name "Apple" once, and you didn't even have the courtesy to capitalize it."
I am sorry that my lack of coutesy in grammer offends you. It has been said emulation is the highest form of praise.
I love what Apple has done with OS X and am reviewing why its has been able to to achive what it has with OS X and what linux will have to do if it wants to do the same. As for additional comments regarding OS X I could bitch about certain bugs or say that I dont like the speed on my G4 but I would rather suggest a route for linux development to take that follows the one Apple has chosen and will make all software better long term.
If this bothers you then mabey something else is wrong and you are venting.
Free Unix? Free Windows. http://www.reactos.com
I know this whole thread is offtopic but that sounds liek a great idea!!
Imagine a Linux "Upgrade" where after you are done you have a system that looks a lot like the old - but all of your old apps are under a "Classic" directory and equivlilent apps have been loaded for you in an application menu, conigured to be as close as possible to the old apps you had. When you launch a "classic" app you could have the choice of launching the equivilent Linux app instead.
I really think it's a smart idea and would greatly facilitate the movement of people onto Linux, especially with older machines that would benefit from a more streamlined system.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Sounds like a really old powerbook - not exactly a great comparison. Besides, I hate OS9 with a passion (I wan't a mac user until OSX)
As for the apps not working together, I've had issue with the damn clipboard in Linux not working between apps (no, I can't remember exactly what apps they were - it's been over a year since I ditched Linux back to just being a server OS)
As for the hardware being expensive - that's really *not* the case. Yes the initial cost is higher, but Macs are cheaper to own. This is fact - I don't have the URL of the study about this handy, but do a google search and I'm sure you will pull it up.
A|Q|U|A
Pudge said,
There *is* an uninstall option for all apps that get installed via the Apple Installer. Every time Installer installs an app, it generates a Receipt file in /System/Library/Receipts (if I'm not mistaken) which you can use to uninstall that app; just double-click on the file, and Installer will launch and ask if you want to uninstall the application.
Admittedly, this is very cumbersome. An "Uninstall Apps" applet in the System Preferences would be a very welcome addition.
In Soviet Russia, Jesus asks: "What Would You Do?"
I noticed this "not installed properly" stuff on OS X 10.1 actually, and it took a few tries to get it to work. ( I think I ended up having to delete coresponding files in /Library/Receipts, to get OS X to think it hadn't installed it in the first place.)
In general Remote Desktop is really not a very good program, and needs some serious updating. It's buggy, slow, and the UI really blows. The thing that really gets me is that it uses the "Computer Name" (AppleShare) as unique IDs for clients, I would much prefer hostname/IP address for my enviroment.
The DNS-less stuff doesn't work either. It doesn't find any of my other machines.
/etc/hosts, but in 10.2 it's set up differently by default. You can confirm this by looking at the output of lookupd -configuration.
Rendezvous can only find other machines on the LAN that also support Rendezvous. It won't help you find your OS/2 machine or your eComStation (wtf?) machine.
All I want is a nice simple host table . On Linux or OS/2 I could easily add all of my host table entries in under a minute.
You can do it on your Mac, too. Starting in 10.2, your host table works just like you'd expect. In 10.0 and 10.1, lookupd was configured to ignore
LookupOrder: Cache FF DNS NI DS
_config_name: Host Configuration
(Among other stuff)
That means that lookupd will try to resolve host names by looking first in its own cache, then in the flat files (/etc/hosts, in this case), then in the DNS system, then in NetInfo. All this is documented in the man page.
All the other items in your list of complaints have similarly simple fixes. Except, of course, for that shit about OS/2 compatibility. What's that about?
Then you haven't seen MacOS X yet.
> Sounds like a really old powerbook - not exactly a great comparison. Besides, I hate OS9 with a passion (I wan't a mac user until OSX)
It's 3 years old - I've got PC's (and a laptop) that are 3 years old that work *much* better (and run Linux). OS9 is a dog, as was every MacOS before it. I don't know how people dealt with it for so long. It looks pretty, that's about it.
> As for the apps not working together, I've had issue with the damn clipboard in Linux not working between apps
All I can say is this hasn't been my experience lately (like in the past 3 or 4 years). Earlier versions of XFree86 and their related apps did seem to have some funky clipboard issues but I don't remember specifics.
> As for the hardware being expensive - that's really *not* the case.
Actually it is. You can't touch a decent Mac to run OSX for under 2K-3K. I'm talking it run it nicely, not limping along. As I mentioned in my first post, a beefy PC can be had for 1K, and you can build decent one for $500. That will get you a box to run Linux at a decent clip and all the apps you can shake a stick at.
I really don't see how a Mac can be cheaper to own - but I will look for the study you mentioned.
You know you're a geek if you've ever replied to a tagline.
Look, I'm really happy that people are finding MacOS X useful. It's about time that they had a decent low-level system too, and FreeBSD is a fine choice (lets not talk about Mach). Some Linux users even find their way to MacOS X and never look back. Again, fantastic.
I however, have no interest in switching. The appeal of Linux to me is that it has a real hacker culture, which you can't develop just by sprinkling open source pixie dust and bundling ssh and ping. Solaris has these too, sometimes it comes with source. But I'm not using Solaris, am I? Apple put together the ingredients, but is still missing the, uh, the soul. Yeah. So the cake comes out lousy.
I don't care about the super smooth GUI (I prefer wmaker and vtwm myself), or for that matter the applications that run on it. I'm not a visual artist, or sound engineer. But if I did care about these things, I might be annoyed if it's not open source. Switching to an OSX box for me involves switching to slower, more expensive hardware plus a software tax for a system I don't personally care about. It's safe to say that I will probably never switch.
Sorry.
Dude, I'm getting out the "crazy"-colored crayons now.
:-)
I am running Mac OSX 10.1 on a refurbished 600 MHz G3 iMac, which cost me $895, and it is wonderfully fast. Prior to this I ran OSX 10.0->10.1 on an original bondi blue iMac (233 MHz G3) and it performed acceptably. If 10.2 is the sort of improvement I expect, then there should be no cause for anybody to complain!
Mind you, it is possible that my expectations of GUI speed are a bit low; I used a SPARCStation 5 for many years!
Dog is my co-pilot.
cmd+arrows DOES open/close folder 'arrows'. cmd+right arrow opens and cmd+left arrow closes them.
The file dialogs, stuck in a column view, are, in my opinion, a glaring design flaw.
Huh? This part I don't get. I'm sure I'm just missing something. wtf do you mean by 'stuck in column view'.
In many places in the OS, you can't merely hit "return" in an active dialog to select the default button (if there is a default button at all), or "escape" to cancel
I've yet to encounter that.
Agree that Linux has along way to go before becoming commercially viable on the desktop, but chasing Win32 API's and apps is a dead end. Why play in a game in which you allow the other side to set the standards and write the rules? E.g., you see many reviews comparing KDE/Gnome to Windows. How many people in the Windows world ever compare Windows to KDE or Gnome? While many here and elsewhere enthusiastically compare (and advocate using) the barely-born OpenOffice to the well-seasoned MS Office, how many non-open source advocates think OpenOffice is important enough to reverse the comparison?
The way to increase use of Linux on the desktop is to develop innovative applications that leapfrog Windows. Stop trying to convince people that traditional Unix apps are all they'll ever need, if only they'd buckle down and study. Forget about the virtues of the underlying OS as a selling point. Just make it reliable enough that people can forget it's there.
Don't harp so much on the "it's free" aspect. A lot of people can afford to buy commercial software. For them, their time is more valuable than the money.
And for God's sake, please finish things before you release them. Tossing umpteen versions 0.0XX out to the open source community is a proven development model. Outside that community, however, many people will walk away from a disfunctional early release and never come back.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
A bit problem is that the number of apps really doesn't make a huge difference to me. The quality of the apps that I have does. Most open source apps have some really rough edges that make working with them a real pain. This brings up another point actually - usability - something that Apple has really done right in OSX. I had never used it before and was immediately able to start working with it. Literally in minutes I had found the app I needed and was comfortably working in it (OmniGraffle - a really nice chart drawing app)
One of my best friends just got his degree in HCI from UMich and he and I have spent a lot of time discussing the usability of OSs and both of us agree that until open source OSs start to really look at usability - real world usability not geek usability - their OSs will only grace the desktops of geeks. Even as a geek who *wanted* to like Linux as a desktop though I couldn't - it was just simply too unpolished.
When it gets down it, to be honest, I don't mind paying more for exactly what I want - a stable OS that lets me run my required business apps hand in hand with my loved unix apps. Apple will have my business for some time to come.
A|Q|U|A
I simply refused to go without my beloved web sites downloaded to my Palm when I made the switch a year ago. This link at Mac OS X Hints gave me that alternative--Plucker.
While a bit more hands-on than AvantGo, you get very similar, if not identical results with Plucker. (This is open source, so Linux guys who switched from Windows can get it too.) Be mindful that these instructions were based on 10.1 and not 10.2: the needed Python parts may have an issue from the binaries, so I'd compile it if I were you.
Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
yeah pudge. you know with mistakes like this the reputation of slashdot will start to fall below the ``peer reviewed'' status it currently is.
fwiw i've never used a mac an understood what he was talking about. i have however read about the zeroconf network stuff so i understand that it's just an easy way to configure tcp/ip. i've always assumed that appletalk was different than tcp/ip, and didn't run on top of it.
i thought it was a good review though. i was happy to see someone say something negative about it. it's hard to get a feel for something when the only opionions you see say hey everything is hunky dory. gj pudge.
-- john
Cause I have nothing better to do.
1) If it takes overclocking my processor and 1.5 gigs of RAM to get a word processor to run "fine" on my computer, I'd rather use notepad ( or MS office, Apple Works, Simple Text etc etc etc). I should not have to superchardge a machine to get something as simple as a wordprocessor working.
2) Open Office is nice (I use it primary on my Athlon machine) but it is slower than other word processors that I've used. It hase some great features (auto word complete is great)and lot's of potential. But it truely is not up to commercial program standards yet, it still feels like a hacker developed program, un polished, not quite finished.
3) It's ironic to see someone call another person a troll and then go on to bash them, bash their OS and call names. Might I suggest you get off the computer, pay attention to your teacher and finish your work, recess is starting soon, you don't want to be left behind.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Make sure you do this on a machine that supports Quartz Extreme. Drag a translucent Terminal window over it for added fun. Watch how little it effects performance, trying playing some MP3s at the same time. Cool, huh?
(fix the spaces in the path above because slashdot eats them)
-Pat
If you showed them Linux they'd either cry or punch you in the face and say "Don't joke around like that, what's the real future of UNIX-clones?"
My sister had a 3400c/200 back in 1998 (maybe 1997) that had quite a bit of RAM in it for the time, definitely more than 48 meg. My old 540c (vintage 1994!!) had a 48 meg limit. That's probably what you're referring to. It was an incredible machine for the time, but hopelessly outdated for much more than reading email now...
I bought a PowerBook G3/500 2.5 years ago, and it's upgradable to at least 512 megs of RAM, possibly 1 gig (I don't feel like looking it up). I recently gave it to my wife, who I expect to use it for several more years. For it's age, it's still an amazing machine, capable of running all but the latest games, and it's battery life still puts most new machines to shame.
My new TiBook has 1 gig of RAM, I don't expect that to be a limitation for a very long time. :) The TiBook has been booted into OS 9 once, and that was an accident made by my cousin.
As a former Amiga and Mac user, and current Windows user, I have to say that while I have considered switching back to the Mac, I will not do so while the MacOS X GUI is so flawed. I agree with the concerns expressed by pudge in this review, and with the reservations expressed on asktog.com and by other UI experts about OS X's interface. The one great thing about MacOS classic, the one thing that made it worth its many flaws, was its incredibly correct GUI. Everything was set up right. In MacOS X, a lot of things are wrong.
Two things are most integral to my computing experience: speed and GUI ease. Right now, the PC offers a much better price/performance ratio. Unless MacOS X returns to the Mac legacy of a superior UI, I will not switch back.
...it requires zero configuration once you're configured properly.
Wow.
I'm an avid PC user since 13 years back, have tried numerous times to switch to Linux, only to give up a few months later because using Windows was just so much easier. Now don't get me wrong, I know how to get around in unices, but in Windows stuff just worked. On the other hand, there was a lot you couldn't do, etc. etc.
I just recently got a $3000 PowerBook with MacOS 10.1 and I've never had such a good time with a computer. The hardware is beautiful, the OS is great and the applications are amazing. I have everything I want except a videoconferencing program, and I mean everything. For some reason, MacOS applications seem to be much _better_ than Linux/Windows equivalents. Has anybody seen Proteus for example? Best IM clone I ever saw. I'm not going back, and you can't make me!
Look, I'm sorry for all you poor bastards who can't afford a Mac. If you can't afford a proper meal, you'll have to make do with instant noodles. I'm sure linux is great for third world/low income people, but for the rest of us, Mac rocks!
It has nothing at all to do with AppleTalk, which I do not use on my network.
And you may ask yourself, well, how did I get here?
AvantGo works fine if you hotsync from Classic. Classic starts up so rapidly now that there is no reason to avoid using it.
"The other guy did it already, so he has an advantage." Well, yea. That's why he has the advantage. :)
There should be a moratorium on the use of the apostrophe.
Max V.
NeXTMail/MIME Mail welcome
so I know I'm gonna get marked as flamebait for this, but why aren't use using Chimera?
.. grrrrr . . . )
(sorry, just grumpy because the new powerbook isn't here yet . .
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The entire Mac OS X UI -- while eminently "lickable," like no OS before it -- was tiring to look at.
When I read this my first thought was "oh, he meant 'likable'". Then I thought, "Man, I don't know. Those Apple zealots might really include licking as the final test after establishing that the OS is usable..."
OS X user for 14 months and counting!run your sudo /usr/libexec/locate.update.db script so you can use locate.
yer welcomed
photosMy Photostream
What the heck, I'm waiting on a big compile.
start up a second copy of an already running application, but as root?
sudo
add to the effective host table?
man niload
# set the monitor power/sleep button to put just the display to sleep and not my machine?
I'm pretty sure my G4 at home has an option for that in the Displays preferences pane. It has an Apple 15" LCD, maybe it only shows up for certain monitors.
add root to the login window?
You mean as a choice from the list of users? Showing that list is horrible from a security perspective, just have it display username and password fields.
set an image's icon to a thumbnail of the image?
Open image, copy contents, bring up "Get Info" window in the Finder, select icon, paste. Just did this in Jaguar, it may not work in 10.1.
Hope this helps...
How to solve most of our problems: 1.Lots of nuclear plants. 2.Cure aging.
...is that it's wrong.
The UNIX of today still shares a lot of the same codebase and even more of the same design philosophy with the UNIX of 30 years ago. There are plenty of de-facto UNIX standards and utilities that have been around for decades, most of which haven't been significantly enhanced since their creation. There's an awful lot that hasn't changed in 30 years. (Note, for all you automatic minus-one slashbot moderators: this does not mean UNIX is bad.)
The "New Ford Thunderbird", on the other hand, is just a car Ford happened to give the same name as an older, completely different vehicle.
- A.P.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
Although they perform different functions, IE is to Windows what bash is to Linux.
That is an interesting comment. I don't have a problem with IE installed by default, and I don't like IE. However I don't like the sledge hammer approach to integration. I think this is the vendor's main complaint.
Apple is really trying to satisfy two groups of people with OSX. The first is the OS9 people, and the second is unix people. OSX is lightyears ahead of KDE (which is what I'm using now). I'm also not against compiling apps I need that are written sufficiently unix-y for FreeBSD (even if I have to run an X server). That makes OSX very attractive. Unix OS with a nice GUI. This is something that hasn't happened in a while.
The OS9 people are in love with, what I have found to be, an inferior and dated Operating System. I worked as a support tech at a school full of iMacs for a year and everything about troubleshooing them was a pain. They didn't play nice on the network, wouldn't fileshare with the windows server (though this is theoretically supported) and when something went wrong with networking, It was gonna be a few hours of switching settings around or finding out which new iMac decided to steal this IP or whatever. They would freeze up in netscape all the time. Heck, printing didn't even work right (they were talking to PostScript print servers. How hard can it be?). They're clinging to the idiosyncrasies of a system that's twenty years old and that they've been using that long. Just like people will always cling to their start menu.
For those of us that are more accustomed to switching GUIs and those of us who have a very wide range of work habits (i.e. more than Word/Excel/IE/Outlook/Kazaa) are going to welcome a cleaner GUI on top of the same unix we know and love.
If you're satisfied with OS9 and it's shortcomings then USE OS9. Nothing's stopping you. For those of us who want a more modern core and a true unix environment, this is the right way to go...
as to the hardware cost (the ONLY reason I have no macosx box), The controlled nature of Mac's hardware is part of why the OS is so stable. PCs are so different. Some hardware does funny things and a lot of time an inherently unstable system can be caused by the hardware. My MB Chipset and GFX card don't play nice. I know this. It hardfreezes. Noone tested the config I picked when I built by system (And subsequently upgraded it). Who knows if it's all stable? Mac knows all their hardware is going to play nice.
I think the premium is a bit much to pay for that. I would gladly accept a mac with lower specs and no support if it meant a significant drop in price and it could be easily upgraded later...but this whole single SDRAM expansion slot means you need lots of built in RAM, making that course impractical. There should be a cheaper way to get performance out of a mac (since for ~$1500 I can build a screaming fast PC complete with RAID and DVD burning. Tack on a few $ for the monitor and I'm looking at a computer five times as fast as their highest level iMac--and I don't even want a DVD burner).
and what's with the SDRAM? why not something faster...some PPC architecture analog to DDR or at that price...rambus
Brian
Long file name display. Aqua shows the first handful of characters of a filename, followed by ellipsis (...) and then THE COMPLETELY UNINFORMATIVE last few characters. It should, of course, show AS MUCH of the leading the part of the filename as possible, then perhaps ellipsis and the extension. Perhaps.
File Dialogs. These stink. First, they're stuck in NeXT style columnar view. That in and of itself is not the worst. The worst is that as you expand the dialog (to see your filenames which are riddled w/ %@&!ing ellipses), the individual columns get wider...up to a point. They get nominally wider, but then further expansion ADDS ANOTHER COLUMN to the view, all columns being re-squished to their minimal width!! GRRR. AND, of course, there's no option to sort the file dialog by anything but name...a feature in Win. since 95.
Incomplete UNIX-length file support. Speaking of long filenames: Darwin allows standard UNIX-length filenames (what is it? 64? 128 chars? Plenty). Just about every OS X app still limits you to Mac's 31. GRRR. Is this just a limit for "carbonized" apps?
Finder won't show .hidden files. THIS is UNIX?
Line termination character woes. This is a long standing problem, but I feel Apple just kinda ignored it. Standard Mac line term. char: CR (ASCII 0x0d). Standard UNIX (and, ergo, Darwin's) line term. char: LF (ASCII 0x0a). Mix programs that by default generate one or the other in one system...try grepping or awking (or your favorite report management) anything useful...hilarity ensues. THIS is UNIX??
Is it possible to get lpd running, in light of all the built-in OS X printing overhead? OK, this last one just thrown in from a position of admitted ignorance.
Otherwise, I love it.
"it requires zero configuration once you're configured properly."
Wow! Where can I buy a product like this?
SIG = OFF
Isn't jaguar essentially Unix?
So shouldnt this work?
http://www.tomw.org/malsync/
You aren't remembered for doing what is expected of you
Did you delete all the receipts before trying to reinstall?
/Library/Receipts/r 10_2.pkgp kg
You can find them in
I believe the ones related to remote desktop are:
RDAdmin.pkg
RDClient.pkg
RDClientUpdateFo
RDDocs.pkg
RemoteDesktopUpdateFor10_2.
Actually, if you have Jaguar, you can log in as any user- even one not shown in the list- by clicking on "Other." This will, of course, let you log in as root.
Alcohol and Calculus don't mix. Don't drink and derive.
The day the users of Linux have only complaints like these will be a great day for Linux.
i hope the author reads this
alright vuescan by Hammerick software does work with scaners in OS 10.1 it's US$40 and since UMAX is a horrible company i will never do busuiness with again because they haven't released OSX drivers yet. Beware that Magicscan and VueScan breaks all scsi on MAC G4 tower 733's and 500's. It probably kills it on OS X but no experience on anything else other then the two systems above.
Buy an Epson Scanner if you need to get a new one because they are better and cheaper.
UMAX constantly does not update drivers theur American sight also is horribly slow. y work around. is www.umax.co.uk or umax.de both are much faster then the American sight, maybe someone is running a divx server on it. UMAX is to incompitent to notice i think.
VueScan comes up on google so good luck. VueScan is excelent scanning software.
UMAX can shoot themselves in the face!
while everyone here falls all over themselves chatting about how 'insanely great' 10.2 is, has anyone brought up the fact that you need client licenses to run more than one (five?)
sorry - i'll stick with 10.1.4 until my Mac dies, or PPC Linux gets better...
10.2 is a fairly nice OS. It's one of those things you install and end up saying "woh... this is cool"
Nevertheless, even though OS X is a native 32bit audio OS with a system Midi / audio Manager and system level support for Steinberg and ProTools plugins (which is just -too- damn cool), is does not have a lot of pro audio apps ported to it.
Steinberg and DigiDesign really need to get their a**es together. These guys are camped out on OS 9 Island all by themselfs and it's holding a lot of people back.
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
If you have a slower machine like my 366 MHz G3-based iBook, MacOS X isn't going to be fast enough. 10.1 wasn't, and I doubt 10.2 is. I haven't heard of any dramatic speed improvements.
:)
:)
But there is a nice solution: use Linux with MacOnLinux (http://www.maconlinux.org). It is very nice. It allows you to run MacOS 9 as a linux application, either in a window in Xfree86 (slow), or fullscreen (very fast), and as long as you don't play graphically demanding games, it's almost as fast as running "pure" MacOS.
and if MacOS crashes, you just restart mol
I use MacOS mainly for school work (have to have Ms office, sorry open source puritans, but openOffice is just not good enough yet) and do everything else in linux. Then I use netatalk (linux appletalk daemons) to move files to and from my linux partitions. Works flawlessly.
I also use netatalk to print from macos. MacOS has never supported my printer (hp deskjet 600) but linux does. I make MacOS believe it is a laserwriter 8 (generic postscript, basically) and use apsfilter to convert the postscript to HP PCL. It works very nicely, and is a good example of the Power Of Open Source Software, imho
Try mol if you have an older mac, it's very useful.
I wish that my brain could do SMP...
I come from an SGI/IRIX ONLY background. I loved the SGI's, very smooth multitasking, very stable.
Then I went to NT4, it was "okay" but no UNIX.
But now, Im the very definition of multimedia user. I spend every day in everything from Softimage to Sound Forge, from SQL Server to Visual Studio.NET. I program, manipulate and compress video, create Flash animations, write Perl for admin tasks, you name it. And I have no trouble with "Windows". It's a taskbar, and a way to get at files, and some basic services for my applications, but that's it, and it's rock solid. I have every PCI slot in my machine filled with a card, 2 sound cards, 3 video cards (3 monitors), a DV500, etc. 4 harddrives and 2 burners, and I haven't had a blue screen or OS crash of any kind in eons.
For one, Im using a dual CPU Dell Precision workstation, decent, quality hardware, with drivers written by decent companies. I think people (many Slashdotters) build up these cheap ass Celerons with Wang Inc. components, where you have to install the Korean font in order to get to the support section of their website, then complain that "Windows sucks man, It crashes constantly." - how does it go? Garbage in, garbage out?
I just wish, for all the brains on Slashdot more people would admit that around the time of Windows 2000 things got pretty decent. MS may be a monopoly, and have all kinds of dumb ideas, I'm no MS cheerleader, but I just get frustrated when I sit here punishing my workstation and it never has a problem, while everyone insists that Windows sucks because they installed a "TeckNeuvo Parallel Port Modem" they bought for $9 on Pricewatch and it crashes the OS.
I'm Rick James with mod points biatch!
I agree - I loved IRIX - too bad it was swiss cheese security wise.
As for Windows, yes with 2000 things got a lot better - but it's still not there. You are right about the garbage-in, garbage-out argument, but I also don't know what magical world you live in eitehr. I am typing this on a Dell laptop which was, a few years back top of the line (Inspiron 7500). Other than weighting way too much it's a good, solid machine - but I've had to wipe win2k twice now because of growing instabilities. I don't install junk hardware or software for that matter - I mainly use Outlook, Editplus, Flash, PuTTy and Word. However after a few months the whole system starts to feel slow and explorer starts dying and locking up left and right. I have never had eitehr happen on my Mac at home, not once.
A|Q|U|A
But they are.
They have a monopoly on hardware that'll run any Mac OS. "But that's where Apple makes all it's money!" Then they shoulda gone for a business plan that wasn't bullshit. Not my problem.
--j
What exactly is the problem? You can use cups under Linux as well as under OSX (and yes, it's quite nice). Do you really need ghostscript if you set it up to print via ipp on the other computer? I though you just had to do a "lpadmin -p foo -E -v ipp://bar/printers/foo" on the client, and it would use the printer foo on server bar, or use the much nicer web interface. (But I've never set up cups for a network, so I might be wrong.)
Hello,
I have UMAX Scanner (can't remember the model) and it works fine, under Classic.
To use it I fire up Photoshop 6 in Classic and then import from the scanner. I was shocked that this worked when I tried it, but rest assured it does. OS X Photoshop 7 does not work for this, however.
I do know that UMAX has no plans for updating the drivers for the cheap, POS scanner I possess. They *are* however updating the drivers for some of their newer ones.
Hope this helps!
J
You can always use the command line utility malsync. FWIW, there is a tarball and an OSX binary (compiled under OSX 10.1.x) available here.
it requires zero configuration once you're configured properly.
Well. Yeah.
This new OS X has OpenLDAP built-in ! Look at the slapd.
Also the Windows authentication can now allow you to reliably mount a volume AND save it to favourite. If you save your password on keychain you could make yourself a big favour mounting Windows volume automatically. Big plus for corporate mac users. And sharing your HOME directory over SMB to other regular Windows user is another big favourite.
The firewall is JUST fantastic. Just click and point. No stupid checkpoint or Norton Firewall. It just comes free. Linux and BSD people should learn from Apple's easy GUI interface. Just click and point and they're done. No need "kill -HUP 23124" or whatever long set of stuff to worry.
This is nothing new, Apple has just never offered people the option of a discount on multiple licenses before-- but you should be buying one copy of the Mac OS for each Mac you have, if you want to stick to the letter of the EULA. I would assume this is the case for all versions of the Mac OS not freely available for download from Apple.
However, should you not want to comply with that, there's no product-activation type crapola going on. Feel free to install one licensed copy of Jaguar on all the machines you want, there is no built-in, technical means to prevent you from running it simultaneously on multiple Macs. You'll just be violating the terms of the license.
~Philly
A copy of 10.0 or 10.0 only allows *one* client. Apple has increased your options by allowing a relatively inexpensive five-client license. Mac OS X 10.2 is not more restrictive in how many copies you can run, it is less restrictive.
It won't read /var/mail anymore! This is for unix-clued MacOS X users out there who turned on Sendmail that's included with every MacOS X.
/Applications/Mail.app/ to save for later use.
If you haven't upgraded yet, tar up a copy of
Or at least download and compile pine. (I needed to tweak the makefiles & os-specific sources a tad, dunno if their distro patches that yet.)
Start Running Better Polls
From what I understand, when I print from Linux the application outputs PostScript data, which gets sent to cups on the Mac. Cups then has to use Ghostscript to decode the Postscript data into something it can actually print. Since the Mac doesn't have Ghostscript installed, it fails - it shows up under "completed jobs" as "cancelled".
If I were printing from OSX, on the other hand, the data would be sent in PDF format, not PostScript, and Apple's version of cups includes a PDF rendering thingie, so that works fine.
I've tried to compile ghostscript on OSX, and I get errors. I'm not really a programmer, so I don't know how to fix them.
Is there a way to make the client applications send PDF data instead of PostScript? Or to have cups on the client side convert it?
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Well - at least as far as I can tell - there's still no SMB printing - after having enabled all the other samba goodness, why didn't apple add SMB printing capability. (I mean having an OS X 10.2 system print to a SMB shared printer)
I know there are products like Dave availble - but really?
I've been strugling for the last couple weeks to get my wife's little Ibook to print properly to our little home wireless network.
\Drew National Data Director, John Edwards for President
On another note, I just looked up the xserve's (Apple's 1U rack mounted server) tech specs and found that OSX server comes with *unlimited* client licenses. Sweet!
Nuff said...
You say you've had that Dell for "a few years", and in that time have had to wipe it a "few times". Yet haven't had to do that with Aqua. Have you had Aqua a "few years"? Has Aqua been OUT a "few years"? How many apps are you running on Aqua? Im not talking little 5 lines of code freeware proof of concept apps. Im talking big apps like Outlook and Flash. And is Aqua (OSX I guess I should say), running the 30 services that a Win2K box does by default? Less to break, less will be broke. Pile all that stuff on OSX, then run it for a few years, see if its slower.
I'm Rick James with mod points biatch!
Apple should just apologize for breaking their earlier promise... "The best Java implementation in the world"? Yeah, my ass. Java runs way faster on Windows and it's less buggy... Hopefully, they'll release a 1.4.x that works and soon. And no more promises, please, it just screws everyone else's plans. Otherwise, Jaguar is quite good, although it still has a number of minor annoyances...
If you want specifics - I've had the machine 2 years. I've had to wipe it a total of 5 times. So thats once every 4-6 months. I've been running OS X for well over 8 months now and I haven't run into any issues. I'm running Apache, PostreSQL, NFS, SSHD, Tomcat, etc. (so I'm sure the services add up well beyond 30) and yes, I'm running the entire MX suite (Flash, Dreamweaver, Firewords) the Office X suite. It's real code and it's real stable - I just can't say that for the PC.
A|Q|U|A
You don't even need Jaguar. In 10.1.x, go to the Login control panel and go to the "Login Window" pane. Click the "Show 'Other User' in list for network users" box. Now you have the "Other User" on the list at login.
No, the family license is $199 for 5 licenses (in the "same household"). It's still an excellent deal if you're buying more than 1 copy of Mac OS X ---- you save $60 even if you only need two licenses.
Or, more easily (in Finder's icon view mode):
IT still sucks WAY to much ram hell even windows
only uses 64 megs. And where the hell is swap.
We're currently beta testing LiteSwitch X on Jaguar. Email Mat at Proteron to ask for a copy. This is expected to ship in about a week.
http://tinyurl.com/4ny52
Believe me. I am no Netinfo guru, but I was able to use it to map host names. I just authenticated into Netinfo and went to the machines section and made a duplicate of the entry for local host. You can delete the "serves ./local" pair, and just fill in "ip_address" and "name" pairs. I did this for all the machines on my local network, just like I would in a /etc/hosts file. Works great for all OS X stuff, not just Rendezvous. Hope this helps
I get it now. Slashdot will review MacOSX, but not Windows 2000 or XP; not because it's a better OS, but because it's not a Microsoft OS. Somehow, giving your money to a giant corporation for a commercial, closed product is "better" than giving it to some other giant corporation for a commercial, closed product.
Why doesn't pudge review Yellow Dog Linux, or Mandrake for PPC?
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
Actually, such a facility exists in Windows. The MSHTML stuff is just one possible implementation. There's actually a project that bundles mozembed to provide an implementation of the same interfaces.
(incomplete, though, but only because they aren't adequately documented)
DNA just wants to be free...
MacOS 9, although having a nice interface, was seriously lacking in features that all modern OSs should have. For instance, no real memory management (you had to specify how much memory a program could use), No memory protection (programs could write anywhere in the memory space), no pre-emptive multitasking (OS relied on programs to be kind with resources, etc. On MacOS X, all these problems have been solved, producing a much superior OS.
Vote for Pedro
:D
Why doesn't pudge review Yellow Dog Linux, or Mandrake for PPC?
Two big reasons. 1. Fewer people care. 2. I don't use those OSes, and to use them enough to write a reaonable review would take an unstifiable amount of my time (see reason 1).
It's slower, but it doesn't dump the connection after 2 minutes for no reason. It works for an hour plus at a time.
Sure this is still crap for a modem, I'll give you that. But 99.993% of the time I'm on broadband somewhere so it doesn't REALLY peeve me. I made this fix on the 'rents computer and I've never heard a peep from them so it's well tested.
I've been thinking about buying a Mac for awhile now. I'm a junior in college and most likely going to grad school. I currently have an Amd 750mhz and it's a fine system however I probably going to need an upgrade at least within a year. The biggest gripe with it is that I have to use Windows. I run linux but I find it more of a hobby rather then something I can use to be productive.
So I have been thinking of getting maybe an iMac and put linux on there to play around with but use OS X to get work done. Yet I'm still not sure if a Mac is right for me. Can I even install hardware upgrades on Macs? The thing I like about PCs is that i can simply buy some hardware upgrades and put them in myself. Is this possible with a Mac? How is the gfx/cpu performance on a Mac compared to a PC? I dunno, if anyone has done a similar leap from PC to Mac i'd appreaciate it if they shared their experience.
The best education consists in immunizing people against systematic attempts at education. - Paul Feyerabend
Sorry, iTunes is not compelling or any kind of best product to hit anything. There are basically three features that really matter for mp3 players:
I'm ignoring features like iPod integration because that's really a seperate tool that Apple decided to put in the same application as their mp3 player. I'm also ignoring visualization because I think most people don't need it.
Quality of playback was made irrelevant after the first couple years of mp3 technology - everything is at the same level of quality now: "good enough"
Now, the last critical feature was made rather irrelevant too, through the last few years as computers got stupid fast. I'm talking about playing mp3s using 5% CPU time or less on even a ~300MHz system. Apple has managed to resurrect this hobgoblin with iTunes (on OSX) by making their mp3 player use a significant chunk of CPU time on any reasonably powered Mac - even when not playing mp3-encoded audio! (I'm not talking about dual CPU machines here - that really ought to be rediculous overkill to play mp3s and use a web browser at the same time)
iTunes GUI really gets me. It blows. I like to have a little control/display window and a little playlist (4 songs with name/artist/album/time) in the corner of my screen at all times. That's a playlist - not a playlist browser, or a list of online radio stations, or some other crap that doesn't apply to my current task. iTunes makes this impossible. Apple decided to kill the skinability of SoundJam, which was sacrificed to make iTunes, in favor of a consistent aqua user experience - which would be great, except it's bloated and useless.
I'm not a smorgasbord.
Does the fact that OSX isn't produced by Microsoft, or that it looks pretty, mean that we can overlook the fact that it is closed source? Does Apple have some innate quality that makes them more trustworthy than Microsoft?
It makes me sad when I see users of Open Source software switch to closed source, whether it is Windows or OSX, and it makes me concerned when few here seem to question this.
If you press the "option" key while hovering over a truncated filename in the Finder the tooltip appears right away. This feature has existed since 10.0.
-- thinkyhead software and media
i Am not impressed with most of Apple's iSuite... The problems...
.mac and iTools. SOLUTION: Gallery :)
iPhoto - can't import from files. Only makes galleries for
iTunes - the whole repository thing bugs me. Why do i have to have all my mp3s in one place? SOLUTION: Auditon
iDVD - doesn't work with non-apple DVD burners. Solution: Toast or none(authoring)
iCal and iSync - too soon to tell how much they suck...
iMovie - Not sure of the suckatude here, since i don't have a video camera. BUT, it does let you import from DV stream files! One up on iPhoto.
Before all of yall flame and and tell me if I don't like it I can go PC, I'd just like to say that 10.2 is the best Apple OS, the best Unix based OS, and probably the best OS. I'm just not impressed with the iSuite...
as far as i'm concerned, one of the biggest ommissions in everyone's bitching about the price of macs is their solid resale value. if you are a high-end geek (and i'm sure you are if you are reading this) you probably need a new box every couple of years to keep up with the joneses and the newest things out. bottom line, macs maintain their value better than PC's. case in point: i bought a G3/233 in late '97 and my work also gave me a P3/600 at the same time. both were mid-level machines with decent specs, both from name brands (apple and gateway). 2.5 years later when it was time to upgrade, my mac was worth about $500 more on the open market than the gateway was. guess what the original price difference was in 97? the mac was $300 more. sounds like a fair price to me.
:-) what a strange world.
i'm not talking about building boxes or yanking motherboards, i'm talking about have computer, need new one. buy new one, copy stuff off old one to new one (also WAY easier on the mac) and then sell the old one to some poor bastard that is one generation of upgrades behind you.
everyone who has macs knows that you buy the middle-model the day after apple announces new ones and you can sell it in 2 years for over 75% what you paid for it!! go check the used prices - macs from 1999 are still getting $1200 even though you could buy them new 2 years ago for $1500
Word on the street has it that all the major mixers, sequencers, and synths are being ported to Mac OS X. I expect the next 12 months to be a very exciting time for Mac audio. Expect a lot of these products to move up to 48-bit and 96-bit audio.
-- thinkyhead software and media
Oh yeah and there is no gasoline engine. Wait windows are not glass. Leather you say? Huhhhhh.
Sure it's not right. Nothing is shared.
The second page of John's Mac OS X 10.1 review contains an index to all of the Ars Technica Mac OS X articles:
http://arstechnica.com/reviews/01q4/macosx-10.1/ma cosx-10.1-1.html
This post expresses my opinion, not that of my employer. And yes, IAAL.
NetInfo, but doesn't actually mention how to map hosts to IP addresses! I'm really tired of typing in IP addresses that start with 192.168.0!
;)
:)
;)
:(
:-\
/machines (in netinfo space) you'll find entries for localhost and broadcast host, copy localhost, change it to "blahblah" and set its IP up, that should give you a local domain name blahblah
I'll take this one
Now, warning, this works in 10.0 and 10.1, and I haven't yet verified it works in 10.2
And I didn't read this anywhere, or anything, it was one of those experiments which worked back when 10.0 came out
Gah, 10.2 has eaten my netinfo db
I'll have to restore or something
Anywho, in
You will probably need to restart the netinfo service
---
Live Long & Prosper \\//_
CYA STUX =`B^) 'da Captain,
Jedi & Last *-fytr
1. Bill Gates did not call on IBM, they were
already in negotiation with MS to have a
version of (MS)-Basic built for that project.
2. BG did not "own" the program to be known as
PC-DOS; but he knew the programmer/company to
get it from.
3. It was not "earlier that day" it was a separate
appointment that Gates helped to set up.
The circumstances surrounding the IBM DOS deal took
at least several weeks to work out.
4. The developer was Gary Kildall, then head of
DRI (not to be mistaken for Digital Research
Corp.) who was away on another appointment.
His wife (and co-owner of the company) and DRI's
lawyer(s) were on hand to meet with IBM. But they thought
the NDA that IBM wanted them to sign was too restrictive
to agree to without Gary's
cooroboration. So that initial meeting fell through, and
while later negotiations did work out, the original
opportunity was lost; and Microsoft gained a foothold
into the OS market.
Side note: People also like to say that Kildall
was "out flying" on the day of the IBM appointment,
to imply that he preferred leisure
over business. But the truth is that he was a
licensed private pilot, and found commuting along
the west coast in his plane a faster way to get
business done than driving.
What does this have to do with the latest rev of
MacOS? Only a reflection onto catwh0re's comment:
There is no such thing as "stumbling on to wealth the
right way". Success is driven by
those who try to make the most of the opportunities
they are given.
One can attribute many more failures to Apple's
stumbling than successes. It is only to perpetuate the
Mac culture that Apple works so hard to make it
"look easy" to come up with their products.
Apple does appear to be on a good track with their latest
developments (iPod, iMac, and now Jaguar).
While I am not a Mac user, I hope they can
keep up this trend as it serves to benefit the PC industry
as a whole.
But if you're using Palm Desktop 4 (the subject of this thread is OS X, of course) then AvantGo doesn't function. Native support is what's needed. I don't mind Classic--when Palm works. This is one of those hardware abstractions in Classic (the USB cradle interface) that is bound to break sooner or later...and Apple or Palm won't be fixing it.
I think that AvantGo is going to DoDo land along with many other dot-coms, but that doesn't mean that I want to rely on them or OS 9 for it. In this case, I cheer the OSS community for stepping up and presenting a solution.
Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
Last month I bought a new computer. I'd gone through a phase of *hating* PCs so I decided to get an iMac. I had 100% made up my mind.
:-)
So I trecked the 40 miles to the nearest store that had a display model, and spent half an hour or so playing with it. Went home, convinced. Yep, that's the system for me.
Went back a week later to buy it. Decided to have another look and spent about 3 hours just fiddling with stuff, finding out how to do things, and seeing how quickly I could do the tasks that I have to do hundreds of times every day.
I went home without an iMac. Three days later I bought a new PC, a Dell, and I love it. The PC rocks. WinXP rocks. I'm happy.
I've never used such an awkward OS as OSX. It seemed to me that for every little thing about the interface, someone had sat down and thought "how can we do this to make it as illogical as possible?" and then they'd done it. I don't think I need to go further than this one example: Select a folder in the finder and press enter. Should open the folder, right? Bzz! Renames it!?!
Apple had a guaranteed sale. But they want people to "think different" so they created an operating system that I, personally, would find impossible to use on a daily basis. All that praise? All the awards? Bleugh. I found OSX to be unintuitive, silly and downright annoying.
I'm even getting a bit angry thinking about it as I'm writing this!
Just my 2 cents. I hope this doesn't come across as a rant/flamebait/troll.
> set an image's icon to a thumbnail of the image?
In 10.2, one of the View Options for Icon view is "Show icon preview", but this is disabled by default. Open a Finder window, choose View > as Icons, choose View > Show View Options, and then check the box "Show icon preview". Note the setting of "This window only" or "All windows" at the top of the View Options panel before you make changes. Once Finder is showing icon previews, if you open a folder of images, their icons will appear as their contents. Set the icon size to 128x128 and you probably won't ever have to open an image just to get a look at it.
The confusion on this is because in previous Mac OS up to 10.1, if an image file had an icon that showed its contents, it was actually a custom icon that was added to the file itself at some point during its life (Photoshop has done this for years, Fireworks does it, and you can just copy and paste an image in Finder's Get Info to do this yourself, too). With a plain custom icon, you could open the image, edit it (say, rotate it) and close it and the icon would still be the same as it ever was. With 10.2, Finder is basically making these content icons for you as you go, so they will be current. If you have images that already have custom icons on them, cut the icon out by using Get Info (select the file or folder, choose File > Get Info, click in the icon field, and go Edit > Cut).
This says it all:
"...it requires zero configuration once you're configured properly."
Sound familiar to anyone who has ever used a computer?
On another note, I just looked up the xserve's (Apple's 1U rack mounted server) tech specs and found that OSX server comes with *unlimited* client licenses. Sweet!
Careful, don't get too excited. I don't think that the "client" licenses are the same as OS licenses. The unlimited client license just allows you to have as many people connect to the computer (via NFS/Samba/XWindows/etc.) as you would like.
It may seem silly to license server connections, but Microsoft does this. Apple is basically saying that they're not like Microsoft in this respect.
In other words, if you have one XServe and one PowerMac, you're still going to need two copies of the OS (or one family pack).
So if I understood this review right, "the previous version of Mac OS was crappy but this one finally gets it right".
Oh wait, wasn't that the Mac OS X review too?
And also the Mac OS IX review?
And...
Geez. Another dumbfuck.
Mac users don't need to come up with an excuse to pay for the hardware they *FUCKING WANT*
Doesn't take much to amaze you, does it?
10.2 has a PostScript renderer built-in. Don't know if that will help you.
I've been thinking about getting an older Power Mac and upgrading to an 800MHz G4, and installing OS X on it. There's a couple things that are holding me back, but the most important thing I'd like to know is, is there any support for adding thin-client terminals to a Mac OS X system, like what LTSP provides for Linux?
I don't want to have to pay for expensive software to set up something like this. I'd like to be able to use old Pentium systems, rather than buy more Macs for thin-clients. LTSP uses {xdm,gdm,kdm,wdm}, so there is a different desktop session viewable on each terminal. With whatever is possible with Mac OS X, I don't want one shared desktop session between all the terminals (like VNC).
As a last resort to the OS X idea, I've thought about installing GNOME, Sawfish, GDM, and other desktop-ish programs I would usually use on my Linux box, and setting up something similar to LTSP on the future Mac OS X box. Essentially, I would have what looks like a Linux desktop on the X terminals, but powered by OS X. I'd really prefer OS X's native GUI to X/GNOME/Sawfish, though.
I've done some Googling, but the closest I could find to "thin-clients" with OS X was netbooting OS X on older iMacs, which is far from what I want. Does anyone have any suggestions for software or projects I could look into?
My Umax scanner works fine in classic... anyone else got it working?
For about 5-6 years all I ever used was Linux with some sort of X desktop. KDE/GNOME/Enlightenment/Windowmaker/etc. Before that I used Win 3.11 and DOS on my 486. I never really had to do any work because I was in high school.
About two years ago I got a Laptop with Win98 on it. The first couple months I was completely confused. I kept closing windows when i wanted to minimize them. Things kept crashing and I didnt know how to fix it. It was terrible. The only thing I liked was Explorer.
Then last year I sold my laptop and got a desktop, Amd 750 with first WindowsMe which was terrible and now XP. I still close windows when I mean to minimize them. I think the entire OS looks ugly and again the only thing i like is Explorer(not IE but the filemanager). Can I get work done? Yeah. Do I enjoy using it? No.
Windows has always felt to me to be a rip off of something better. I've never used OS X but there has to be a better way.
The best education consists in immunizing people against systematic attempts at education. - Paul Feyerabend
hey, thanks for the info - guess i'm an idiot and didn't read the EULA...
appreciate the correction...
Technically, the Unix that's 30 yrs old is not the Unix on which Mac OS X is based. Remember that Mac OS X is based on NeXT's OS, which is in turn based on Mach. Darwin borrows very heavily from xxxBSD however.
Actually NeXT is based on Mach + BSD just as OS X is based on Mach + FreeBSD. BSD was there from day one on the NeXT.
blakespot
-- Heisenberg may have slept here.
iPod Hacks.com
actually with an Xserve and a power mac you'll want 2 different OS's. One of OSX and one of OSX Server. Different animals.
Okay, for you people griping about some of the features of OS X 10.2, here's what I've found from using the OS for over 2 months now (from some early dev releases up to the final release).
/. too much, I even have a sig file now)
- Mac OS 9 schtuff. Ugh, I got sick of troubleshooting Mac OS 9. Always having to use some 3rd party crap optimizer or file system rebuilder. Ugh! Fsck it and forget it. Thank you whoever wrote the HFS+ version of fsck. No more Norton Disk Wreaker for me (and it's true, you don't need it anymore!). All the whiners complaining about having to learn a few new tricks. Please, if you've stopped learning, you must be brain dead. I love learning new stuff and Mac OS X has been a great challenge (but I really wish some things were harder to figure out. Go Apple for making an OS like Unix intuitive).
- You *nix freaks. Yeah, you. I'm not leaving you out of this one. Quit asking for x86 hardware. Please, let us have our RISC processors and vector optimization. I don't want to be stuff trying to figure out BIOS programming again. Open Firmware is really powerful and really neat (just ask SUN!). Please grow a brain and realize that "platform" means the whole widget, not just the OS. Just because you use a *nix doesn't mean your on a different platform if it's still on x86. As for "limited" selection of hardware, fine, you got me there, there is less hardware available for the Mac. But guess what? It's better that way because I don't have to deal with driver conflicts, cheap chips, or major meltdowns because I bought a $49 ethernet card from Generic, Inc. I know that is it says "Mac Compatible" it's been tested, and it will work (99% of the time, yeah, I know all about ATTO and Adaptec and their wonderful disclosure BS). Now then, what else can I yell about.
- Plumbing! Yes, plumbing. The software behind the software. All those nifty services that Mac OS X uses. NetInfo (yay, NeXT!), lookupd (um, it's gotten better, really), lpd, lpr, named, mDNS, CUPS, Quartz (and Quartz Extreme), etc, et. al. Go read the website. I don't feel like listing it all. Man, I even recompiled a few *nix binaries from source and they worked! Now that's pretty nifty if you ask me. As for you bash fans, they added the bash shell too, just to make you happy. Now wasn't that nice?
- And to those who think that they are entitled to a free upgrade from 10.1. Really? Are you a member of the ADC? Did you pay your ADC membership dues? You didn't? Oh, well, I guess you'll have to pay $129 like anyone else not part of the "testing" demographic. Yes, I got my copy of Jaguar early. Yes, I've been using it since BEFORE it was release in March 2001. Now shut it. If you want it, pay for it. Otherwise warez is and break the law. If you get busted, Apple is not going to bail you out for your own stupidity. Gah!
- I could rant more if you'd like but this is really defocusing my brain. I use Macs. I have M$ and all it's malarkey. I also use Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, Solaris 7,8, and 9, and only when I am forced to Windowz. But Mac OS X has made me like to work on computers again. Mac OS X is...is...
It's one of the best things to come out of the computing industry since the Apple I. If you don't like it, you need to ask better questions and stop complaining. But some people just want to whine. Here, have some cheese. Now shut up. Now I'm going to shut up.
Mod this down to -5 (raving lunatic)
(god, I've been reading
Don't Ask Questions. I don't know the answers and even if I did I wouldn't tell you.
This story is on the front page. You made the big time son.
Wonderful, how I come along and provide a straightforward answer to a simple question about AvantGo, and you jump in to flame an opinion no one here has actually expressed, leading into some baseless speculation, closing with a little kiss-ass OSS rah-rah. You get moderated up, and I sit there at 1. Huzzah. Anyone with a blog is now an "Author."
Web site: http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~ghost/
Maintainer: Jeffrey S. Whitaker
I have no idea what Ghostscript is, so I'm not sure that's exactly wht you need.
Hope that helps.
dalamcd
moer liek CELtroid prime!!@1!
I am a bitter old man. I hate change.
So stick with Mac OS 9.2 then. The OS with the Worlds most bandaids! And I say that affectionately, since I think it's fairly more stable than the Win9x's, considering they're both sans memory protection.
For Apple to advance, they had to make major changes, and if they're going to do that, they may as well improve everything along with the kernel changes. OSX is my main OS now, it's not perfect sure, but what is? It certainly appears to have the most incredible potential. I'm finding OSX to be as stable as any of the most stable Linux or *BSD systems and by far the most capable GUI I've ever used.
Don't like it? Then stick with what works for you now and move over to OSX when you need to.
War crimes, torture, lies, illegal spying... Would someone give Bush a blowjob, already, so he can be impeached?
-- if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic - Lewis Carrol
I have a few friends that run W2K. One is an architect, another does 3D StudioMax work. Both of them have to reformat and reinstall Windows every six months. They say if they don't things start running slow, etc.
I've been running OS X since April 2001. Never had to reinstall. I do run "big apps" like FlashMX, Illustrator, Photoshop, InDesign, GoLive, MS Office, LightWave, Maya... nothing breaks. Very often I have half of those apps open at the same time, all day, all week.
In the 16 months I've been running OS X I have had about 6 "crashes" where I had to reboot. Four of those were kernel panics while running OS X 10.1.3, which was prone to kernel panics.
-- if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic - Lewis Carrol
But is there anything users can do to move the scrollbars to the left, applying some sweet little hack, editing some .plist or defaults file? In TextEdit, for example?
Why don't you blow a donkey you faggot queer bait. I hope someone takes a baseball bat to your skull.
This feels like an intro to a good post. Care to elaborate?
"I tend to think of OS X as Linux with QA and Taste", James Gosling, creator of Java
Windows is consistent?! Come on ! Typical Windows troubles : A guy just bought his first Windows computer. He installs his favorite applications. After that, he decides to reorganize his hard disk. He moves some applications to new folders. Surprise! All the applications are broken ! Thanks the registration database ! Happen every days... Is it consistent to be able to move an exe, when you have at least 60% chances it's going to break the installation ? Yves.
That was the previous day :)
Less is more !
I switched for a similar reason: I no longer wanted to know about Windows, nor keep troubleshooting and patching, updating and reinstalling and hand-holding and roving through the Microsoft Knowledge Base for detestable arcana. Screw all that; I spent much of the 90s assisting that maladjusted corporation in hoodwinking everyone that this is how it is, how it must be. But it isn't and it ain't.
For me the epiphany came when I disconnected my PC's cable modem and plugged it into the iBook. For a tense moment, I wondered how much futzing and diagnosing it would take to get online; fifteen minutes, thirty minutes if there were the usual customary PC configuration glitches? Heh: twenty to thirty seconds, as it happened, give or take. And that was when I knew. No more PCs for me, for my office, for my family, ever again. We're done with you and yours, Mr. Gates; good riddance.
>You'll just be violating the terms of the license.
And if you think other licenses are important to adhere to (GPL, Artistic, etc) then you might as well follow Apple's...
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I'm a longtime Mac user as well, I was a MacPerl guy like pudge years ago, but I could not wait to jettison Mac OS 9 for Mac OS X. I still cringe when I have to use Classic at the office. There's nothing wrong with Mac OS 9, my wife and kids use it (not to say it's for housewives and little girls) as it's an extremely easy to use OS. I'm willing to trade some ease of use for some power and control. Not enough to switch to Linux for my desktop needs, but just enough that Mac OS X is the (almost) perfect OS for me... right now anyway...
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On Windows, I cannot delete IE. End of discussion. Microsoft says the OS will break.
I tested this in Win98 last night (I was exceptionally bored, and my win98 box is designed for this sort of thing).
I was unable to tell a diffrence between having IE installed and not installed (deleted from a *bsd cdrom mounting the partition), until something made a call into IE. At which point the OS hard crashed.
This happened when an application (none of the other MS apps had a problem) tried to use IE to render something. It also happened when I typed a url into the address bar.
So if by integration they mean purpousfull lack of modularity and error checking, they are correct. I saw nothing that convinced me that IE was being used as anything but a web browser though, which defeats all of thier claims.
In general your points were good. Only one small problem: .Mac
.Mac doesn't count because it's not an iApp. It's just an integral part of the Finder and many of the iApps. Still, does anyone out there want to drag the Finder to the trash?
I guess that