The phone is not returnable any more, so you are stuck
That's not true... Jobs explicitly said that you can do a full return for 30 days after purchasing an iphone with no restocking fees, and get your at&t plan fees refunded as well.
Why did you think it's too late to return it? I don't think I'm missing anything? If you were the earliest iPhone adopter around, getting one on launch day, you'd still have another full week to decide if you want to return it or not...
I don't have an iPhone 4 nor at the moment a blackberry, but when you say:
Well if they are true, I can't replicate it. My Blackberry for sure has signal variations based on its position. I'm quite sure my body interferes with it too, no way it can't. However it doesn't drop calls when I hold it. I grip with the "whole hand wraparound" method all the time, just how I hold the thing. It always seems to work.
It sounds an awful lot like what many iPhone 4 users have said (including friends I've seen with an iphone4 personally, and, eg, the Anandtech review). If you're in a good reception area, the deathgrip makes you lose some signal but does not automatically drop the call. If you're in a low reception area, you can go all the way down and drop a call.
But if you're in a sold 5-bar area with your blackberry OR iphone, it's very possible that even a substantial drop in reception won't move you from 5 bars.
Also, FWIW with the 4.0.1 firmware I get a solid 1 bar with my iPhone 3gs in my house. I used to occasionally get up to 4 and it would move between 3-4 and then drop down to 1. It's clear I'm in a low reception area. The new firmware seems to do a MUCH better job of properly relaying this information.
Another funny tidbit, the Iphone 4G(eneration) is only a 3g phone. =]
I think you're being confused by something -- the name of the phone is "iPhone 4" -- note the lowercase i and no G (you mistakenly added the G in). It's called this because it's the 4th iphone. Difficult, I know =]
In my personal anyone with an Iphone will call you crazy should you decide to switch to a different device.
I'm not sure what you mean, but in all of these conversations, the only people I see insulting other people for their choice in phones are non-iphone users. Could you point me to some example?
That seems very high. I would go back and get another opinion. I have a macbook pro ($2000+ originally) and was quoted ~$300 for a mainboard replacement, and I forget how much for the lcd replacement, but definitely less than $755. In the end it was all repaired for free...
2. you need to make an appointment to speak to us,the next appointment is in 2 hours
Of course...They take reservations and also walkins. The walkins enter a queue. If you don't make an appointment, you go in the queue. It's only fair... You can make a reservation online in about 60 seconds.
I just found the attitude in the store a little extreme. And the price for the repair.
It sounds like you got a bum rep. I would suggest in the future just trying again. Alternatively you can call the AppleCare phone number--they are in my experience excellent and have no wait times to talk to a service rep. They could quote you the price for a new monitor almost instantly I would think.
But hey, you got the best of all worlds--you did it yourself for definitely cheaper than anywhere else.
Again, I'm not sure you're entirely right. I definitely and strongly agree with you that as most people grow up, they don't want to fuck around with things as much when things should "just work."
However, I don't really think pirating games is that difficult. I will sometimes still install no-cd cracks for instance. That's simple enough just about anybody can do it. And from looking at torrent sites, the warez/cracker groups do still take some pride in putting together bundles of games that "just work."
Having said that I've had no problems with Steam and only a few minor annoyances with other DRM / protection systems. I have absolutely no problem with game developers trying to protect their goods.
I thought of some of the fairly recent games that have had downloadable content...a few spring to mind. Oblivion, Fall Out, Dragon Age, etc.
A quick search on any torrent site will show you distros all packaged together of the game plus downloadable content.
Meanwhile for those of us who did buy the games, you can't move downloadable content around in some cases. For instance in Dragon Age, my copy came with Blood Dragon Armor and Shale. If I resell / lend / etc the game out, nobody else gets access to those without buying them.
Anandtech's review (which I believe is far more in-depth than the CR?) claims that the iPhone4 holds onto a call at -113dbm. There is no doubt there is a antenna gap bridging problem and that this DOES cause the signal to drop, but at the same time the overall antenna performance seems better versus ie the 3gs. Weird.
From my day of testing, I've determined that the iPhone 4 performs much better than the 3GS in situations where signal is very low, at -113 dBm (1 bar). Previously, dropping this low all but guaranteed that calls would drop, fail to be placed, and data would no longer be transacted at all. I can honestly say that I've never held onto so many calls and data simultaneously on 1 bar at -113 dBm as I have with the iPhone 4, so it's readily apparent that the new baseband hardware is much more sensitive compared to what was in the 3GS. The difference is that reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use.
Reread your post...are you serious? How mentally invested in tis are you?
What exactly is the weak argument? The phone has a flaw that affects some users. There is an easy solution. Make a decision -- worth it or not. I'm sticking sit my 3GS but some friends of mine love their 4s.
I think you really need to calm down in this situation...I cant fathom your loathing of that "ludicrous motherfucker."
FWIW, I have a 3gs, and while you and CR are right that it lacks the signal bridging bug, if I hold the bottom 1/2 of the phone tightly, the signal DOES degrade.
Selective reading skills? Since you clearly didn't click the link GP included:
From my day of testing, I've determined that the iPhone 4 performs much better than the 3GS in situations where signal is very low, at -113 dBm (1 bar). Previously, dropping this low all but guaranteed that calls would drop, fail to be placed, and data would no longer be transacted at all. I can honestly say that I've never held onto so many calls and data simultaneously on 1 bar at -113 dBm as I have with the iPhone 4, so it's readily apparent that the new baseband hardware is much more sensitive compared to what was in the 3GS. The difference is that reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use.
That's how it does not equate to worse reception. RingTFA often helps answer these questions.
Also FWIW, I have a 3gs, and it DOES suffer signal loss when I hold the bottom 1/2 tightly, even with a case on. I've been self conscious about using the phone since I discovered this and have realized that when normally talking on the phone, I don't hold it by the bottom, but by the top. Others I've asked have said the same thing. I think that's not uncommon, but obviously pl anecdate != data... Possibly explains partly why the problem with the iphone4's stupid bridging bug was noticed by lefthanded people. (as a less common grip type)
Honestly, deep down, do you really think that two years from now the iPhone will no longer be dominant, just because Apple wasn't gracious enough about these antenna problems?
Big mistake saying that...get ready to get slapped down!
I don't think ANYBODY is claiming that it's not a fuckup. I don't think ANYBODY is claiming that Jobs' ridiculous emails weren't...well, ridiculous. Apple over the last year has caused some really interesting cognitive dissonance in people. Who knew that Slashdot had legions of people who viewed Flash as a killer feature and couldn't wait to get it on their iphones? In any case...
GP has a point--it's a fuckup with a really easy solution--buy a case. If you don't want to buy a case, return the phone. You get 30 days, and I really doubt Apple/AT&T would refuse returns past 30 days right now. As he points out, almost everybody already does buy a case. If you read the really in depth reviews such as Anandtech's review, iphone4 actually does a better job than iphone 3gs at maintaining a call with low signal.
Again, nobody is denying that it was a stupid design and that bridging the gap drastically lowers the signal.
You definitely can [xda-developers.com] on Android, though that requires rooting the phone (but then it's not claimed by the manufacturer to be illegal, unlike with iPhone).
So it it against the license or anything with Android to root, or is that just a feature?
THe link you provided is also interesting in that it DOESN'T mess with a firewall or proxying or anything, but rather is a simple host file fix.
Do you know if its possible to muck around with Android firewall? (I assume there IS A firewall?)
(1) Paste App store agreement term requiring me to look at ads;
Oooh, this is ironic? You've been arguing that Apple REQUIRES you to watch ads, now you're arguing that they DON'T require you to look at ads?
You didn't like my VPN solution which afaict is perfectly legal, perfectly by the license, and nobody would try to stop you doing?
(2) Explain way in which agreement with Apple becomes agreement with third party developer;
No; in regards to installing any App you may want (ie, an iAd firewall app).
(3) Justify validity of general terms in click-through agreements, especially increased restrictions after purchase.
I hate EULAs and what not as much as the next guy, and I would HOPE That many terms would get stricken. However, I doubt that major ones would be eliminated.
You're the monopoly distributor for add-ons for some system and you're now the major ad broker for some system. What possible ways could Apple's involvement in one area affect Apple's decisions in the other?
Again ironic that after making the "Knives are dangerous, ban knives" against me, you yourself make the same argument? Apple MIGHT do something wrong, so Apple WILL Do something wrong. I don't buy it here:)
It's a win-win for Apple in that Apple wins if there are Apps without ads (more often pay apps) and Apple wins if there are Apps with ads (more often free apps). They even win if you jailbreak because you still had to pay $$ for an iPhone. Thus, what's their particular motivation to do ill here? any outcome that increases usage of the iPhone or usage of apps in the store is a positive one for them.
I should add that I don't know how Apple figures out what apps are on the "Featured Apps" page on the iPad, but on the iPhone the top apps are listed by gross sales, and downloads for free and downloads for pay.
Ok, I stand by my statement that your usage of totalitarian is an ad hom partly by virtue of the word totalitarian itself...needless to say I don't agree with your argument on the definition, but I think we'll just have to disagree on this one.
Oh, Joe something I think a few posts down, and an "asshole" from vijay. lol, internet.
But you DID agree to them when you signed onto the App store!
Except for the conflict of interest between ad broker and app distributor.
You didn't answer earlier what the ethical conflict is?
It's a win-win for Apple. If people choose free ad-supported apps, Apple and the Developer get ad money. If people choose paid-for ad-free apps, Apple and the Developer get ad money. The only "loss" would be free non-ad-supported apps...and popular apps that people like can't really be called a loss when somebody has to buy an iPhone/iPad/iPod to get to them!
Radio stations have programming (sometimes bought, sometimes created) and sell ads. CAble stations broadcast programs and have ads.
There is no reasonable danger whatever in providing firewall software which allows me to block particular servers
That's probably true, but once you limit access to firewall/routing to only being able to block outgoing access to particular server, then it's of extremely limited utility as well. As I said before--everybody on slashdot knows about the App store, they know about Apple forbidding access to unpublished API's and no root access, etc ad infinitum (since Apple articles show up about daily!). That's just something that Apple is not going to allow. For most people I don't think it matters in the slightest--I know it doesn't for me.
You know what you COULD do? VPN your iPhone through a home server and do all the filtering you want there. Fair?
Does it do it properly across the range of contended resources like, say, VMS systems have always done? I.e. are programs allocated CPU / memory / disk / etc limits? And, if iOS has more finely grained privilege control and resource limits than I've read about, why can't this privilege control include the ability to firewall out servers without including the ability to, say, allow free access to the telnet port?
I believe the disk space limit is about 2gb per app. Memory constraints are more "what's available" (for instance the signal I mentioned). Same for processing power...not a hugew deal since multitasking has up to now been limited. iPhone can kill apps if it needs to. Not extremely fine-grained.
Argh. An ad hominem is an accusation about the character which is used to support an argument. I'm using an argument to judge the character.
Wikipedia has an article on the ad hom if you're unclear on why throwing the accusation of "totalitarianism" around the way you did is an ad hom. Additionally the definition of totalitarian might be helpful. Relevance to the subject at hand--zero.
Well, perhaps my acerbic prose appears more vitriolic than those who respond with "asshole", "stfu" and ALL CAPS. But the vitriol of denial I accused all y'all of, i.e. the inability to just say "sorry, Apple won't allow that" without some proselytism on the Apple Way and the evil of people who refuse to look at adverts... woohoo!
I haven't seen any of those STFUs you mention...and I've--since I think my first or second post--said EXACTLY that anybody with an iPhone knew what they are getting into, and if you don't like it, go for an Android or one of the plethora of other handsets... so I don't really know what you're talking about,
You choices right now are: (1) Send me $100; (2) Cut off all your hair. See, it sounds just as ridiculous when I give you arbitrary instructions on what you can and cannot do.
Non sequitur.
My choice is to download apps and not view adverts. I can do this by jailbreaking and firewalling off the ad servers, but I want it to be simple for those who aren't technically minded. Apple are pretty much alone in the computing market by demonstrating an approach so totalitarian as to not permit this.
Really? Can you do it on Android or Symbian or WebOS?
No, it doesn't require you to click on ads. Keep up.
Oh I see, when you kept saying "watch" ads I assumed you meant tap the banner view and watch the modal ad...since that's how iAd works. The base iAd banners are no different from banner ads that have been in apps for 3+ years now.
We'll say "yes" in the hope that you'll provide at least a moderately sophisticated argument.
Barring a real answer from you I too will ask a question--are there any security implications with allowing any 3rd-party app to add/change/alter/update firewall/routing rules? Hardly the same thing as a program taking cycles (btw, the iPhone sends signals that requires programs to for instance release memory, so there already are builtin protections to cpu usage, memory, battery, etc that you tossed out)
None of this is ad hominem. You may want to review your dictionary of logic.
Here's what you said:
I'm assuming Apple isn't so totalitarian as to require you to view adverts on your own property...
Let's break it down.
Apple's (alleged) position -- no blocking iAds.
Your position -- you should be able to block iAds.
Throwing out the canard of "Oh, surely Apple isn't so totalitarian as to..." doesn't change the fact that it's an ad hominem that doesn't have any impact on arguing whether 3rd-party apps should be able to block iAds or not.
(I also had no concrete answer until after I'd posted. The vitriol of denial added credence to my fear, of course.)
I haven't really seen any vitriol other than yours...?
Yeah, allowing a firewall is a huge security flaw because it may affect the behaviour of other software... seriously, are you even thinking what you're saying? In other news, every piece of software negatively affects every other because there is contention for CPU, memory, storage space and battery power.
I'll respond to this, but first, are you a software developer or programmer?
Feel free to point 'em out. I've criticised the Apple community but I've not criticised the community as a basis for another argument.
You absolutely have. When your first post disingenuously asks a questions you clearly already knew the answer to, calling Apple totalitarian what exactly do you think you're doing?
They are thus requiring you to view ads if you want to remain in their walled garden and enjoy the full range of apps.
To quote a great philosopher, you can't always get what you want. The choice on the app store is
1) Refuse to use any apps with ads, even if this means buying the non-free variants. 2) Use all apps, including ad-supported and non-free.
Nobody with an iPhone today doesn't know about he app store. EVen more true for somebody on slashdot. I don't have a problem with any of these restrictions. If you do, the good news is that there is PLENTY of choice and freedom in the handset market. Go get a Droid. For others--developers and users alike--their decision making process may be different from yours. I will personally be interested in the future of AdMob on Android handsets...
Stop enjoying the full range of apps, then!" is a cowardly answer from someone who walks away from the first sign of battle with the glimmer of defeat in his eye, content to do only precisely as he is told. It's also not addressing the fact that Apple's requiring you to watch ads as a condition of fully enjoying the App store.
Ahh, so now we've gone from Evil Apple requires you to have ads to EVIL APPLE REQUIRES YOU TO CLICK ON AND WATCH ADS! How over the top are you going to be? You're the one who refused to use anything with ads. I personally have no problem with ads and even less with iAds which have so far been extremely unintrusive.
You know, the sucky thing about freedom is that you have to make choices...and you don't always get what you want.
Apple's partnership (i.e. profit-sharing) with developers on the iAds programme is also ethically questionable, but I wasn't raising that.
Slashdot Mirror
The phone is not returnable any more, so you are stuck
That's not true... Jobs explicitly said that you can do a full return for 30 days after purchasing an iphone with no restocking fees, and get your at&t plan fees refunded as well.
Why did you think it's too late to return it? I don't think I'm missing anything? If you were the earliest iPhone adopter around, getting one on launch day, you'd still have another full week to decide if you want to return it or not...
I don't have an iPhone 4 nor at the moment a blackberry, but when you say:
Well if they are true, I can't replicate it. My Blackberry for sure has signal variations based on its position. I'm quite sure my body interferes with it too, no way it can't. However it doesn't drop calls when I hold it. I grip with the "whole hand wraparound" method all the time, just how I hold the thing. It always seems to work.
It sounds an awful lot like what many iPhone 4 users have said (including friends I've seen with an iphone4 personally, and, eg, the Anandtech review). If you're in a good reception area, the deathgrip makes you lose some signal but does not automatically drop the call. If you're in a low reception area, you can go all the way down and drop a call.
But if you're in a sold 5-bar area with your blackberry OR iphone, it's very possible that even a substantial drop in reception won't move you from 5 bars.
Also, FWIW with the 4.0.1 firmware I get a solid 1 bar with my iPhone 3gs in my house. I used to occasionally get up to 4 and it would move between 3-4 and then drop down to 1. It's clear I'm in a low reception area. The new firmware seems to do a MUCH better job of properly relaying this information.
They don't need to give more of a response because while Apple has created a few phones Nokia and RIM have created hundreds of different models
Just fwiw, you've just made as your argument one of the most classical and basic fallacies -- an appeal to authority.
As always any Iphone users will vehemently deny that anything is wrong with their beloved device.
Who exactly has claimed this?
Though it may be true that other phones have similar issues. I for one do not believe they are as bad as the Iphone 4.
See also: Given Truth, the Misinformed Believe Lies More
Another funny tidbit, the Iphone 4G(eneration) is only a 3g phone. =]
I think you're being confused by something -- the name of the phone is "iPhone 4" -- note the lowercase i and no G (you mistakenly added the G in). It's called this because it's the 4th iphone. Difficult, I know =]
In my personal anyone with an Iphone will call you crazy should you decide to switch to a different device.
I'm not sure what you mean, but in all of these conversations, the only people I see insulting other people for their choice in phones are non-iphone users. Could you point me to some example?
1. it'll cost $755 to repair
That seems very high. I would go back and get another opinion. I have a macbook pro ($2000+ originally) and was quoted ~$300 for a mainboard replacement, and I forget how much for the lcd replacement, but definitely less than $755. In the end it was all repaired for free...
2. you need to make an appointment to speak to us,the next appointment is in 2 hours
Of course...They take reservations and also walkins. The walkins enter a queue. If you don't make an appointment, you go in the queue. It's only fair... You can make a reservation online in about 60 seconds.
I just found the attitude in the store a little extreme. And the price for the repair.
It sounds like you got a bum rep. I would suggest in the future just trying again. Alternatively you can call the AppleCare phone number--they are in my experience excellent and have no wait times to talk to a service rep. They could quote you the price for a new monitor almost instantly I would think.
But hey, you got the best of all worlds--you did it yourself for definitely cheaper than anywhere else.
1-Pound
2-US Dollars (and cents)
3-Euros
4-Israeli Shekel
5-Japanese Yen/Chinese Renminbi
Off the top of my head. Checking wikipedia, it looks like there are a bunch more
Korean Won -
Thai Baht -
Nigerian Naira -
(great, slashdot strips out the currency characters)
And dozens more...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_sign
Again, I'm not sure you're entirely right. I definitely and strongly agree with you that as most people grow up, they don't want to fuck around with things as much when things should "just work."
However, I don't really think pirating games is that difficult. I will sometimes still install no-cd cracks for instance. That's simple enough just about anybody can do it. And from looking at torrent sites, the warez/cracker groups do still take some pride in putting together bundles of games that "just work."
Having said that I've had no problems with Steam and only a few minor annoyances with other DRM / protection systems. I have absolutely no problem with game developers trying to protect their goods.
I'm not really sure that's true...
I thought of some of the fairly recent games that have had downloadable content...a few spring to mind. Oblivion, Fall Out, Dragon Age, etc.
A quick search on any torrent site will show you distros all packaged together of the game plus downloadable content.
Meanwhile for those of us who did buy the games, you can't move downloadable content around in some cases. For instance in Dragon Age, my copy came with Blood Dragon Armor and Shale. If I resell / lend / etc the game out, nobody else gets access to those without buying them.
Anandtech's review (which I believe is far more in-depth than the CR?) claims that the iPhone4 holds onto a call at -113dbm. There is no doubt there is a antenna gap bridging problem and that this DOES cause the signal to drop, but at the same time the overall antenna performance seems better versus ie the 3gs. Weird.
From my day of testing, I've determined that the iPhone 4 performs much better than the 3GS in situations where signal is very low, at -113 dBm (1 bar). Previously, dropping this low all but guaranteed that calls would drop, fail to be placed, and data would no longer be transacted at all. I can honestly say that I've never held onto so many calls and data simultaneously on 1 bar at -113 dBm as I have with the iPhone 4, so it's readily apparent that the new baseband hardware is much more sensitive compared to what was in the 3GS. The difference is that reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use.
Reread your post...are you serious? How mentally invested in tis are you?
What exactly is the weak argument? The phone has a flaw that affects some users. There is an easy solution. Make a decision -- worth it or not. I'm sticking sit my 3GS but some friends of mine love their 4s.
I think you really need to calm down in this situation...I cant fathom your loathing of that "ludicrous motherfucker."
FWIW, I have a 3gs, and while you and CR are right that it lacks the signal bridging bug, if I hold the bottom 1/2 of the phone tightly, the signal DOES degrade.
Selective reading skills? Since you clearly didn't click the link GP included:
From my day of testing, I've determined that the iPhone 4 performs much better than the 3GS in situations where signal is very low, at -113 dBm (1 bar). Previously, dropping this low all but guaranteed that calls would drop, fail to be placed, and data would no longer be transacted at all. I can honestly say that I've never held onto so many calls and data simultaneously on 1 bar at -113 dBm as I have with the iPhone 4, so it's readily apparent that the new baseband hardware is much more sensitive compared to what was in the 3GS. The difference is that reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use.
That's how it does not equate to worse reception. RingTFA often helps answer these questions.
Also FWIW, I have a 3gs, and it DOES suffer signal loss when I hold the bottom 1/2 tightly, even with a case on. I've been self conscious about using the phone since I discovered this and have realized that when normally talking on the phone, I don't hold it by the bottom, but by the top. Others I've asked have said the same thing. I think that's not uncommon, but obviously pl anecdate != data... Possibly explains partly why the problem with the iphone4's stupid bridging bug was noticed by lefthanded people. (as a less common grip type)
Funny thing is, according to Mac Rumors, Consumer Reports rated iphone4 higher than all other smartphones... including Androids. http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/12/aside-from-signal-issue-consumer-reports-rates-iphone-4-highest-amongst-all-smartphones/
Do you REALLY believe what you just wrote? Any of it?
Honestly, deep down, do you really think that two years from now the iPhone will no longer be dominant, just because Apple wasn't gracious enough about these antenna problems?
Big mistake saying that...get ready to get slapped down!
I don't think ANYBODY is claiming that it's not a fuckup. I don't think ANYBODY is claiming that Jobs' ridiculous emails weren't...well, ridiculous. Apple over the last year has caused some really interesting cognitive dissonance in people. Who knew that Slashdot had legions of people who viewed Flash as a killer feature and couldn't wait to get it on their iphones? In any case...
GP has a point--it's a fuckup with a really easy solution--buy a case. If you don't want to buy a case, return the phone. You get 30 days, and I really doubt Apple/AT&T would refuse returns past 30 days right now. As he points out, almost everybody already does buy a case. If you read the really in depth reviews such as Anandtech's review, iphone4 actually does a better job than iphone 3gs at maintaining a call with low signal.
Again, nobody is denying that it was a stupid design and that bridging the gap drastically lowers the signal.
The question is, does it matter?
You definitely can [xda-developers.com] on Android, though that requires rooting the phone (but then it's not claimed by the manufacturer to be illegal, unlike with iPhone).
So it it against the license or anything with Android to root, or is that just a feature?
THe link you provided is also interesting in that it DOESN'T mess with a firewall or proxying or anything, but rather is a simple host file fix.
Do you know if its possible to muck around with Android firewall? (I assume there IS A firewall?)
(1) Paste App store agreement term requiring me to look at ads;
Oooh, this is ironic? You've been arguing that Apple REQUIRES you to watch ads, now you're arguing that they DON'T require you to look at ads?
You didn't like my VPN solution which afaict is perfectly legal, perfectly by the license, and nobody would try to stop you doing?
(2) Explain way in which agreement with Apple becomes agreement with third party developer;
No; in regards to installing any App you may want (ie, an iAd firewall app).
(3) Justify validity of general terms in click-through agreements, especially increased restrictions after purchase.
I hate EULAs and what not as much as the next guy, and I would HOPE That many terms would get stricken. However, I doubt that major ones would be eliminated.
You're the monopoly distributor for add-ons for some system and you're now the major ad broker for some system. What possible ways could Apple's involvement in one area affect Apple's decisions in the other?
Again ironic that after making the "Knives are dangerous, ban knives" against me, you yourself make the same argument? Apple MIGHT do something wrong, so Apple WILL Do something wrong. I don't buy it here :)
It's a win-win for Apple in that Apple wins if there are Apps without ads (more often pay apps) and Apple wins if there are Apps with ads (more often free apps). They even win if you jailbreak because you still had to pay $$ for an iPhone. Thus, what's their particular motivation to do ill here? any outcome that increases usage of the iPhone or usage of apps in the store is a positive one for them.
I should add that I don't know how Apple figures out what apps are on the "Featured Apps" page on the iPad, but on the iPhone the top apps are listed by gross sales, and downloads for free and downloads for pay.
Ok, I stand by my statement that your usage of totalitarian is an ad hom partly by virtue of the word totalitarian itself...needless to say I don't agree with your argument on the definition, but I think we'll just have to disagree on this one.
Oh, Joe something I think a few posts down, and an "asshole" from vijay. lol, internet.
Fair enough :p
Exhaustive list of options I never agreed
But you DID agree to them when you signed onto the App store!
Except for the conflict of interest between ad broker and app distributor.
You didn't answer earlier what the ethical conflict is?
It's a win-win for Apple. If people choose free ad-supported apps, Apple and the Developer get ad money. If people choose paid-for ad-free apps, Apple and the Developer get ad money. The only "loss" would be free non-ad-supported apps...and popular apps that people like can't really be called a loss when somebody has to buy an iPhone/iPad/iPod to get to them!
Radio stations have programming (sometimes bought, sometimes created) and sell ads. CAble stations broadcast programs and have ads.
There is no reasonable danger whatever in providing firewall software which allows me to block particular servers
That's probably true, but once you limit access to firewall/routing to only being able to block outgoing access to particular server, then it's of extremely limited utility as well. As I said before--everybody on slashdot knows about the App store, they know about Apple forbidding access to unpublished API's and no root access, etc ad infinitum (since Apple articles show up about daily!). That's just something that Apple is not going to allow. For most people I don't think it matters in the slightest--I know it doesn't for me.
You know what you COULD do? VPN your iPhone through a home server and do all the filtering you want there. Fair?
Does it do it properly across the range of contended resources like, say, VMS systems have always done? I.e. are programs allocated CPU / memory / disk / etc limits? And, if iOS has more finely grained privilege control and resource limits than I've read about, why can't this privilege control include the ability to firewall out servers without including the ability to, say, allow free access to the telnet port?
I believe the disk space limit is about 2gb per app. Memory constraints are more "what's available" (for instance the signal I mentioned). Same for processing power...not a hugew deal since multitasking has up to now been limited. iPhone can kill apps if it needs to. Not extremely fine-grained.
Argh. An ad hominem is an accusation about the character which is used to support an argument. I'm using an argument to judge the character.
Wikipedia has an article on the ad hom if you're unclear on why throwing the accusation of "totalitarianism" around the way you did is an ad hom. Additionally the definition of totalitarian might be helpful. Relevance to the subject at hand--zero.
Well, perhaps my acerbic prose appears more vitriolic than those who respond with "asshole", "stfu" and ALL CAPS. But the vitriol of denial I accused all y'all of, i.e. the inability to just say "sorry, Apple won't allow that" without some proselytism on the Apple Way and the evil of people who refuse to look at adverts... woohoo!
I haven't seen any of those STFUs you mention...and I've--since I think my first or second post--said EXACTLY that anybody with an iPhone knew what they are getting into, and if you don't like it, go for an Android or one of the plethora of other handsets... so I don't really know what you're talking about,
You choices right now are:
(1) Send me $100;
(2) Cut off all your hair.
See, it sounds just as ridiculous when I give you arbitrary instructions on what you can and cannot do.
Non sequitur.
My choice is to download apps and not view adverts. I can do this by jailbreaking and firewalling off the ad servers, but I want it to be simple for those who aren't technically minded. Apple are pretty much alone in the computing market by demonstrating an approach so totalitarian as to not permit this.
Really? Can you do it on Android or Symbian or WebOS?
No, it doesn't require you to click on ads. Keep up.
Oh I see, when you kept saying "watch" ads I assumed you meant tap the banner view and watch the modal ad...since that's how iAd works. The base iAd banners are no different from banner ads that have been in apps for 3+ years now.
We'll say "yes" in the hope that you'll provide at least a moderately sophisticated argument.
Barring a real answer from you I too will ask a question--are there any security implications with allowing any 3rd-party app to add/change/alter/update firewall/routing rules? Hardly the same thing as a program taking cycles (btw, the iPhone sends signals that requires programs to for instance release memory, so there already are builtin protections to cpu usage, memory, battery, etc that you tossed out)
None of this is ad hominem. You may want to review your dictionary of logic.
Here's what you said:
I'm assuming Apple isn't so totalitarian as to require you to view adverts on your own property...
Let's break it down.
Apple's (alleged) position -- no blocking iAds.
Your position -- you should be able to block iAds.
Throwing out the canard of "Oh, surely Apple isn't so totalitarian as to ..." doesn't change the fact that it's an ad hominem that doesn't have any impact on arguing whether 3rd-party apps should be able to block iAds or not.
(I also had no concrete answer until after I'd posted. The vitriol of denial added credence to my fear, of course.)
I haven't really seen any vitriol other than yours...?
Yeah, allowing a firewall is a huge security flaw because it may affect the behaviour of other software... seriously, are you even thinking what you're saying? In other news, every piece of software negatively affects every other because there is contention for CPU, memory, storage space and battery power.
I'll respond to this, but first, are you a software developer or programmer?
Feel free to point 'em out. I've criticised the Apple community but I've not criticised the community as a basis for another argument.
You absolutely have. When your first post disingenuously asks a questions you clearly already knew the answer to, calling Apple totalitarian what exactly do you think you're doing?
They are thus requiring you to view ads if you want to remain in their walled garden and enjoy the full range of apps.
To quote a great philosopher, you can't always get what you want. The choice on the app store is
1) Refuse to use any apps with ads, even if this means buying the non-free variants.
2) Use all apps, including ad-supported and non-free.
Nobody with an iPhone today doesn't know about he app store. EVen more true for somebody on slashdot. I don't have a problem with any of these restrictions. If you do, the good news is that there is PLENTY of choice and freedom in the handset market. Go get a Droid. For others--developers and users alike--their decision making process may be different from yours. I will personally be interested in the future of AdMob on Android handsets...
Stop enjoying the full range of apps, then!" is a cowardly answer from someone who walks away from the first sign of battle with the glimmer of defeat in his eye, content to do only precisely as he is told. It's also not addressing the fact that Apple's requiring you to watch ads as a condition of fully enjoying the App store.
Ahh, so now we've gone from Evil Apple requires you to have ads to EVIL APPLE REQUIRES YOU TO CLICK ON AND WATCH ADS! How over the top are you going to be? You're the one who refused to use anything with ads. I personally have no problem with ads and even less with iAds which have so far been extremely unintrusive.
You know, the sucky thing about freedom is that you have to make choices...and you don't always get what you want.
Apple's partnership (i.e. profit-sharing) with developers on the iAds programme is also ethically questionable, but I wasn't raising that.
How so?