Apple / iOS doesn't allow ANY programs that affect other running programs like that. I would think that would generally be seen as a huge security flaw! I wouldnt want any app to be able to access my mobile banking apps or password storing apps, etc.
So what exactly are you complaining about...?
Pay attention. The issue I have with Apple is their not admitting iAds-blocking apps to the store.
Your rants and ad hominems in this thread imply otherwise.
But I choose to not see ads, not to not use apps. So that's another no.
Take it up with the developer of the Apps that you would use if not for ads then. It's illogical and nonsensical to blame Apple for decisions made by 3rd-party developers.
i think the ACs point is that Apple is NOT "requiring" (your word) you to do anything! There is not a single iAd in iOS or any Apple bundled programs. iAd is an API for 3rd-party developers to OPTIONALLY include with their apps. If you download an app by a developer who chose to include iAds, delete the app! End of story! The choice is 100% in YOUR hands.
This frothing hysteria over everything Apple is getting ridiculous...especially when it comes from people who clearly don't know what they're talking about.
Yes, many of us have gone through adolescent phases where we thought that the definition of human from Dune was cool and should be followed in real life, but it's just that--adolescent.
Between iPhone / Android, no I can't provide any meaningful experience as I've already stated, and I have no strong opinions either way. I can tell you from other comments on slashdot that people say that iPhone is more responsive and smoother scrolling than Android, but I can't vouch for that.
Between OSX and Windows I can definitely provide some examples.
In 6 years of using a Mac laptop I have had to download and install *one* driver (for a generic brand USB->Serial dongle). I can't say the same even for Windows7 (and certainly not Vista). Worrying about hardware and driver revisions and all is just not an issue. (see for instance the recent Nvidia driver overheating issue on PC)
Easy to install programs. You just drag them to the Application folder. No packages, no dependencies, no installers. When you want to uninstall, just delete the program from the Applications folder. Logical and easy to use.
System maintenance is just about non-existent. Windows has gotten a lot better over the years, but I still find more maintenance tasks on w7 than I've ever had to do in OSX. At my office the OSX computers are pretty much install and forget. Windows computer less so (though again, I like w7 a lot).
Time Machine -- a builtin backup program that's technically elegant and has an easy to use UI as well. Provides one level of easy backup for people who might not otherwise be backing up.
Malware/etc is still virtually non-existent for OSX and the security model follows much more closely the Unix model (generally considered a good thing).
Things like sharing files between computers just works. Have you tried to share files on a home network between two XP computers? Or between an XP computer and a Windows7 computer? It's frequently very aggravating! On Mac it's point and click, whether you have a dhcpd server or are just on a network with 169 addresses.
Zeroconf/Bonjour is built into the system for things like accessing network printers, file sharing, etc. This is a technologically that for what it does, just works. Windows7 (and probably Vista) made adding network printers a lot easier, but it's still not nearly as easy.
System Preferences are generally considered to be laid out well and for several revisions easy to search. Windows is now searchable too, but has a confusing plethora of configuration pages.
Expose (wikipedia it if you don't know what I mean) is another feature that "switchers" have cited to me as a feature of polish.
Applescript would be another example -- a totally pervasive system of scripting that's built into the entire OS and most 3rd party apps. Most OSX users probably have never heard of it, but for power users it's very powerful.
A lot of the polish does come from 3rd party apps. For whatever reason, 3rd party OSX developers do seem to stick more to the HIG (more than Apple at times!) and write quality programs.
And the one point that Apple haters frequently love to deride is the design aspect. Button spacing, HIG issues, etc. Another thing I've personally had multiple converted Apple users mention to me is how much nicer the fonts are. (personal opinion sure) Hardware design--things like the Magsafe. Read the universal laptop power brick thread and see how many people rave about their Dell powerbrick vs their Apple brick.
Command line tools are topnotch (well duh, a lot of them are bsd or gnu!). But beyond that, there are command line tools to interface with many higher level parts of the OS. I for instance just learned about the "security" command today which is a program which allows you to update / access the password Keychain for use with other command line programs (or whatever else you might need it for)
Now please note that I'm NOT saying OSX is perfect nor that I like everything about it! It definitely has issues, but you specifically asked for examples of the user experience and "polish." I'm sure you (or others) could (and probably will!) argue about many of these points, but these were just the first off the top of my head.
Indeed. But from my experience, there are times when life might be easier without it. Yes, it does prevent breaking things if you yank too hard on the cable, and that's cool. But unless it (and the socket) is quite new, it doesn't always make a good connection. And as time goes by, the magnetism loses some of its mojo and the plug develops an annoying tendency to fall off the computer if you so much as look at it sideways.
I've had the exact opposite experience. I have a going on 3.5 year old MBP and the Magsafe works perfectly. Have not had any falling out problems, any loss of magnetism, etc.
On balance, I think I preferred the physical plugs Apple used with their iBooks.
and I HATED that connector. I had a Powerbook I used for just about 3 years. I would have kept using it except I went through a power cord a year. The connector being round spun around and caused shorts in the wire. The first power cord I had literally sparked and caught on fire with it just sitting on my desk! (that one was replaced for free). The rest of the laptop still works fine but I have to position the power cord juuuuust so, to get any power at all. As a result of it constantly losing electrical input, I also had to go through two batteries in 3 years.
DisplayPort are electrically incompatible to DVI and HDMI, but no one notices, since the video cards adapt to it. Apple fans will probably mod me down to hell, but DisplayPort is the reinvention of the wheel. A sleek and stylish wheel of course, and we totally, absolutely needed another connector for digital video that is electrically incompatible with DVI and HDMI. Since we only had 2 digital video standards to choose from. Maybe one of our Appolytes can enlighten me, but to me, it has no substantial advantages over HDMI.
FWIW, Apple is just one of the supporters of DisplayPort (or mini-Displayport)...Dell and Lenovo both use it as well. So I don't think you really need to get flamed by Appolytes (like the term btw)
On the otherhand, I bought a Dell Vostro small business computer in a packaged deal with a 23" monitor and the damn thing came with only a VGA port. THAT'S irritating.
Hey, I've got no problem with power connector standardization (though like others here I think the Apple Magsafe beats just about any other connector I've seen)...
The post was in reply to somebody saying "I want laptop internals to be standardized"
That's my thought...these things are so custom designed, that I would think requiring eg a discrete video card module with a standard connector would really limit case size, heat dissipation (as you said), and general advancement of laptop state of art.
When average laptops are $1000, how many people are going to spend $200 to upgrade a video card in 2 years when they could get a whole new (much better) laptop for not much more?
So come on, what are the advantages? What is the reason people get so territorial whenever Apple is brought up?
Why so territorial? If that's true I think it's probably because people who use Apple products tend to really like them. I really like my Macbook Pro laptop! When's the last time you heard someone gush about a Dell laptop? Obviously Apple is a favorite target of people who hate Apple (on eg Slashdot) and so it's not surprising that when people make statements like "The closedness, lack of features and general asshattery of Apple" when it's clear they know virtually nothing about Apple, that Apple users defend products they like.
Read the power connector frontpage article on slashdot right now. How many people do you see saying "I LOVE my Dell power connector!" or "I would love to see laptop power connectors standardized on my Acer connector, it's great!" None. You see a crap load of people talking about how great Magsafe is though (and it is, it's great!). I think that sums up the situation really well...Apple designs things REALLY well. Apple software and hardware is full of little touches like that. OSX is a nice operating system that also happens to be based on a unix/bsd core, with full commandline, singleuser mode, etc. It's also got a really polished gui. The iPhone is a really polished phone that most people really seem to like.
Really? You can't run OS X on any hardware, or at least any hardware that can run Windows? I didn't know this and if it's true, it's a huge weakness imposed by Apple to keep people who like OS X buying their hardware. If a Mac can run OS X, Win and Linux, then (barring artificial limitations) a computer containing the exact same hardware can surely do the same.
Right, Apple limits OSX to only running on Apple hardware. Like I said, there IS a Hackintosh movement which while technically against licensing rules by Apple also seems to be utterly ignored by Apple. I've run 10.4 and 10.5 on generic PC hardware and it works very well. Since the base of OSX is open source, I even recompiled one of my ATA drivers to add support for an unsupported chipset. Not bad.
The bottomline--Apple designs solid products. Apple designs products that people like. As I said before, you've got the time to spend researching parts and building computers--that's great, and it's fun, but I don't have that time anymore. OSX is -- and of course IMHO -- a far more polished operating system than Windows, the Linuxes, etc. That's why I'm reduced to buying Dell desktops at work and why I choose to use an Apple laptop as my main computer. I think most people who, for instance, try an OSX laptop for a month, understand this.
I would never go so far as to claim that Apple products are for everybody though...I personally think it's great that there is competition.
Again I have to ask, how is different from/better than ? When it comes to phones, I have had the questionable pleasure of using a Nokia N97 for a couple of months. I have also tried an iPhone 3G and a couple of HTC phones. My current phone is the HTC Desire and I must admit, I haven't loved a tech gadget this much since my SNES (hell, I can even play SNES games on it!). The closedness, lack of features and general asshattery of Apple just makes the HTC (with Android) a much more tempting choice, not to mention the immense amount of available apps and the powerful hardware.
Different from? Well, just try the different phones. They're not the same. You may prefer one, you may prefer another one, I have minimal usage of Android and haven't made a single comparison between the two. Whichever one you like better is the one I would say is better... "lack of features" is pretty much a red herring, iphone too has "immense" (more?) apps, and the general asshattery of Apple in your view a philosophical statement which I don't agree with. If you like the HTC, no problems! Go for it! You may be judging others, but I don't think many people are judging you for your cell phone preferences.
Now though, an Apple computer is just a very expensive computer you can't really upgrade* in a shiny plastic case. It can run any OS and any software for that OS, as can any (much cheaper) computer I build to spec myself and stuff in a Lian Li case.
*Well, technically you can but doesn't warranties and such hinder you from doing such things freely?
No re: warranty. Secondly, you can run any OS on Apple hardware (I think you're confused by the fact that you can't run OSX on any hardware)
Look, if you're into building computers component by component, Apple is probably not for you (though there is the hackintosh community whichj is very much into those things). I only switched to Apple ~6 years ago and have not looked back. When I was younger I too used to spend hours researching components and building my personal and work computers. I don't do that anymore (at least not often).
Can't you like your computers and other people (ie, me) like Apples without it being a source of outrage and shock? Not everybody has to walk in lockstop, like the same things, and believe the same things after all!
At work and at a conference I used it for taking notes, web access, email and calendar (google sync). It's really nice to travel with as well...don't even need to take it out of your bag at security.
At home I've found myself using my laptop less and less and using the iPad more and more for web browsing and email (ie, most of what I use a computer at home for). I did NOT expect that to happen as I, like you, felt it didn't have a use either.
Three news apps -- USA Today, Bloomberg, and Fnancial Times -- are absolutely fantastic. I never would have read their websites previously (unless linked to a specific article) and I've never been in the habit of reading deadtree newspapers, but I use these apps almost every day now. Great UIs.
Last, I have done some reading of ebooks. It supports the open epub format and PDF, so it's pretty nice Still not certain on the ease of reading over long periods of time vs the Kindle.
Apple seems to think that their one phone is the phone for everyone and when it is not, people are going to attack them.
That's not really true... Well, they do have one line of phones obviously (iPhone -> iPhone 3g -> iPhone 3gs -> iPhone4) however even today AT&T sells iPhone 3g, 3gs and 4.
I'm a Mac laptop user and have an iPhone 3GS. I had absolutely zero interest in the iPad...but then we got one for work. I've been using it for about 2 weeks now, at home and at work (and at a conference). I love it...I was really surprised but I do.
I DON'T think it works as a Kindle replacement, and reading ebooks in low light tires my eyes pretty quickly. It also really desperately needs iOS4 / multitasking...but even now I use it at home all the time.
Acer is the #1 (or #2 depending on who is reporting) of laptop sales. Their major growth is because of the laptop/netbook sales.
Relevant how?
I already once referred you to the Acer website. Take a look again. Notebooks are a great example. Three lines. As compared to Dell's at least 6 lines.
And yes, they have more than two models which apparently is to confusing for you to comprehend
You keep resorting to this tpye of ad hom, and I'm really not understanding what your point is. I've even cited other articles that specifically mentioned how Dells multitudes of lines and options were driving customers away (in comparison to HP even!).
The point is not that it is confusing for you or for me. I DO Happen to find the Dell product line confusing. Their marketshare has tanked in the last 7-8 years. Their competitors such as Acer, HP, and your favorite bugaboo Apple, take VERY different approaches to marketing and product lines, and have all increased their sales.
That's the end of the story...If you don't understand that, I don't think I can state it any simpler!
Yes, Acer is BOOMING right now and it is NOT from corporate purchases and it is NOT desktops and it is NOT because they offer an easy web site with two laptops.
You're right, they offer 3 *lines* not 2 *lines* -- I think you're getting confused here, so I just wanted to make sure you understood that point about the lines. I would think Acer succeeds by picking up the bottom of the barrel price and netbook market (being the first to the punch there)... can't say. I've heard decent things about their technical support. Again, relevant to my criticism of Dell only insofar as I've already explained half a dozen times!
You claimed Apple is so great and blowing away the competition because they only sell a few models and that is what the consumers want
I hate to say this because it sounds too much like an ad hom, but work on your reading comprehension! I've very specifically NOT said what you just claimed. Apple has done well by differentiating their products from competitors and internally. Just like Apple has 2 lines of notebooks, Acer has 3 lines. Apple has been doing very well by any standard. You can "poo poo" all you want, but quadrupling your marketshare in 6-7 years, opening 300 retail stores, etc is not a failure.
I never claimed Apple is blowing away the competition... I claimed they've been very successful (do you disagree?) and have been very popular over the last decade. Again, I don't see how anyone with any rationality in this argument could deny that Apple in the last decade HAS been successful and HAS been popular?
Yes Dell is in a slump, it happens, CS, faulty computers, crappy web site, and probably many other reasons but Dell is not in a slump because the sales are going to Apple because Apple is easier and better place to buy from.
You do realize that the "crappy website" you cite is tied inextricably to "crappy marketing of product lines"... ? Ironic much?
If your SOLE point is that "not every customer who switched from Dell, switched to Apple" I will 100% agree with you!
That is how this whole thread started.
Interesting, because your first post more sounds like an adamant defense of Dell and an attack on Apple, not because I suggested that "probably quite a few people" had switched from Dells to Apple (I said this in reply to your post).
Yeah, market share, Android sales are up 24% over what they were last year. In the last 3 years, Acer sale increased almost 40% pushing Apple down to 5th.
Could not be more irrelevant to the conversation at hand. Does cellphone OS (that most people probably don't know anything about and replace every 2 yars on avaerage) really have any correlation to desktop computer usage? I don't think so.
We can through out statistics all day long, bottom line, Apples current rate of growth in the last 5 years in the PC market is about close to 1% a year and even SHRUNK last year while Acer growth was 50%. OMG 50%! Of course YOU assume that since Dell went down, those people went to Apple, sorry, statistically, they went to Acer.
You unwittingly make my point _again_. Go look at the Acer product lines (specifically for business desktops which is what I've been talking about since post #1).
We have been hearing for 10 years how awesome Apple is and how much inroads they are making into the home computing market but they only have 8% total after 10 years. 10 years is a LOOOONG time in the computer industry and going from 2-8 in 10 years is not a fast paced sprintto the finish by any stretch of the imagination and as glorified as you seem to think.
So now you're reduced to arguing semantics, which has exactly what relevance to my argument...?
Apple also picked up market share in the United States, growing to 5 percent, from 4 percent, as its shipments increased 30 percent, according to Gartner. Apple grew faster than any other PC maker in the United States, Gartner said.
Research firm Gartner said that Apple was the fifth-largest PC seller in the U.S. for the three-month quarter to start 2010. An estimated 1.398 million Macs were shipped in the States, and Apple only lagged behind HP, Dell, Acer and Toshiba.
Obviously primarily an opinion piece with many facts, but does this sound like anything I've been saying about Dell / Apple?
1. Keep It Simple Dell tries to do too much. The company has spent the last few years attempting to be the company that satisfies any potential buyer. That's a mistake. HP has shown that simplicity will reign supreme in the computing market. That company has gone out of its way to provide customers with several options that will satisfy them in one way or another. Dell should follow suit. Its buying process is a mess that's overrun with customization options. Even its product offerings are all over the place. Enough is enough. Keep it simple, Dell. That's what customers want.
Okay, Dells numbers should be falling greatly, noticeable AND those numbers are going to Apple. Let's look at overall sales numbers?
Dell loses ~8%, Apple gains about 6%. Those are the numbers. You don't think that's significant? Really?
Dell has closed or is closing almost all of their facilities in the US, including a factory building ~5 years ago near where I live. Should this tell you anything?
given the success of the Apple store Success, measured in what why? Compared to what?
Success meaning that they are profitable! Success meaning that they have helped quadruple Apple marketshare in the last 6-7 years. Success meaning that while others like Gateway tried--and failed--to open branded computer stores, Apple is opening more every month. Is this really that difficult to see?
Apple has been so popular over the past decade
Popular means going from 2% of the computer market to 8% in 6-7 years. It means everybody in the WORLD knowing what an iPod, and a lot of them having one! It means 1.7 million iphones sold in 3 days at prices higher than most Android phones (and none of the 2 for 1 deals). It means virtually every
you specifically claimed Apple sales of computer were skyrocketing
No, you're wrong. I EXACTLY said "Do you wonder how many people have gone to dell.com only to be overwhelmed and then head to a nearby Apple store? Given the success of the Apple stores and Apple in the last roughly decade, I think it's probably quite a few people!" and EXACTLY "why Apple has been so popular over the past decade." I stand by both of those statements absolutely. The rest is just your imagination.
I showed you sales numbers that showed that the mass exodus to Apples way and "simplicity" was not very effective for computer sales.
I never claimed a mass exodus. Go read my posts (again?). Apple market share HAS increased greatly in the past 10 years, and especially in the home/personal segment. Not so much corporate (though Google is a good example of a switcher company).
Dude, think about what you are saying, they only have TWO MODELS
You're a dedicated troll... Read my first post again (or look at apple.com for that matter). You seem to be confused about Apple's product lines.
Yes, and what was the situation 10 years ago? It's more so if you look at laptop sales which are more indicative of the home/personal market than desktop computers which seem to be becoming dinosaurs outside of the workplace.
You claimed because Apple had less choices, it was an advantage and people liked that and that is why they were buying Apple.
No, I distinctly did NOT say it was just because Apple had less choices. I said it was an example of "Apple simplicity." Part of that simplicity does mean that yes, there are fewer choices to make than if you're speccing a Dell, but most of it comes down to clearly defined product lines that are easy to understand, their names make sense, and they are clearly demarcated between themselves.
Open an appliance store and only offer 2 washers, 2 dryers, 2 refrigerators, 2 couches, and 2 different microwaves. See how long you stay in business
Isn't that exactly what Apple has done with the Apple store? After all, they offer ~3 mp3 players, 2 laptops, 3 desktops, 2 cellphones and 1 tablet? And they're all even the same brand!
And we all know how succesful Apple stores have been over the past 9 years...
Still 100% missing the point. It doesn't matter whether you or I or Joe Random Slashdot User are capable and willing to do the research. I HAVE bought Dells and probably will again. Irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
The point is that Apple's product line is easier to understand and more straightforward than Dell's. From this information, I speculate that this goes a long way towards explaining why Apple has been so popular over the past decade.
I think a lack of empathy goes a long way towards explaining why some (eg) Slashdot users have such a hard time understanding other people's motivations. I think this is a perfect example of you failing to understand many people's motivations, and instead ranting at me (though I'm struggling to understand what there is to get worked up about in the conversation here?). Apple is brilliant at marketing...I think even the biggest Apple haters would agree with that? Does that tell you anything about their product lines?
People are buying Apple for reasons other than they only have two to choose from that should fit everyones needs and that's all anyone should want or need to compare from.
Here's your one nugget of (partial) wisdom in your rant. People ARE buying Apple for other reasons. It's exactly like I said in my previous post in this thread... Apple has product lines that are clearly differentiated from other PC makers and clearly demarcated amongst themselves. The average Dell/Compaq/HP/Acer/etc are identical and practically indistinguishable.
Slashdot Mirror
Apple / iOS doesn't allow ANY programs that affect other running programs like that. I would think that would generally be seen as a huge security flaw! I wouldnt want any app to be able to access my mobile banking apps or password storing apps, etc.
So what exactly are you complaining about...?
Pay attention. The issue I have with Apple is their not admitting iAds-blocking apps to the store.
Your rants and ad hominems in this thread imply otherwise.
But I choose to not see ads, not to not use apps. So that's another no.
Take it up with the developer of the Apps that you would use if not for ads then. It's illogical and nonsensical to blame Apple for decisions made by 3rd-party developers.
i think the ACs point is that Apple is NOT "requiring" (your word) you to do anything! There is not a single iAd in iOS or any Apple bundled programs. iAd is an API for 3rd-party developers to OPTIONALLY include with their apps. If you download an app by a developer who chose to include iAds, delete the app! End of story! The choice is 100% in YOUR hands.
This frothing hysteria over everything Apple is getting ridiculous...especially when it comes from people who clearly don't know what they're talking about.
Yes, many of us have gone through adolescent phases where we thought that the definition of human from Dune was cool and should be followed in real life, but it's just that--adolescent.
Can you harm someone online?
What's the line between being an asshole online and harassing online?
When you're a teenager typing in modem commands by hand to call local numbers, yes :-)
Anyone remember Moonbase Alpha BBS -- 471-4547 -- (I doubt it as it would be a minuscule number of people)?
Between iPhone / Android, no I can't provide any meaningful experience as I've already stated, and I have no strong opinions either way. I can tell you from other comments on slashdot that people say that iPhone is more responsive and smoother scrolling than Android, but I can't vouch for that.
Between OSX and Windows I can definitely provide some examples.
In 6 years of using a Mac laptop I have had to download and install *one* driver (for a generic brand USB->Serial dongle). I can't say the same even for Windows7 (and certainly not Vista). Worrying about hardware and driver revisions and all is just not an issue. (see for instance the recent Nvidia driver overheating issue on PC)
Easy to install programs. You just drag them to the Application folder. No packages, no dependencies, no installers. When you want to uninstall, just delete the program from the Applications folder. Logical and easy to use.
System maintenance is just about non-existent. Windows has gotten a lot better over the years, but I still find more maintenance tasks on w7 than I've ever had to do in OSX. At my office the OSX computers are pretty much install and forget. Windows computer less so (though again, I like w7 a lot).
Time Machine -- a builtin backup program that's technically elegant and has an easy to use UI as well. Provides one level of easy backup for people who might not otherwise be backing up.
Malware/etc is still virtually non-existent for OSX and the security model follows much more closely the Unix model (generally considered a good thing).
Things like sharing files between computers just works. Have you tried to share files on a home network between two XP computers? Or between an XP computer and a Windows7 computer? It's frequently very aggravating! On Mac it's point and click, whether you have a dhcpd server or are just on a network with 169 addresses.
Zeroconf/Bonjour is built into the system for things like accessing network printers, file sharing, etc. This is a technologically that for what it does, just works. Windows7 (and probably Vista) made adding network printers a lot easier, but it's still not nearly as easy.
System Preferences are generally considered to be laid out well and for several revisions easy to search. Windows is now searchable too, but has a confusing plethora of configuration pages.
Expose (wikipedia it if you don't know what I mean) is another feature that "switchers" have cited to me as a feature of polish.
Applescript would be another example -- a totally pervasive system of scripting that's built into the entire OS and most 3rd party apps. Most OSX users probably have never heard of it, but for power users it's very powerful.
A lot of the polish does come from 3rd party apps. For whatever reason, 3rd party OSX developers do seem to stick more to the HIG (more than Apple at times!) and write quality programs.
And the one point that Apple haters frequently love to deride is the design aspect. Button spacing, HIG issues, etc. Another thing I've personally had multiple converted Apple users mention to me is how much nicer the fonts are. (personal opinion sure) Hardware design--things like the Magsafe. Read the universal laptop power brick thread and see how many people rave about their Dell powerbrick vs their Apple brick.
Command line tools are topnotch (well duh, a lot of them are bsd or gnu!). But beyond that, there are command line tools to interface with many higher level parts of the OS. I for instance just learned about the "security" command today which is a program which allows you to update / access the password Keychain for use with other command line programs (or whatever else you might need it for)
Now please note that I'm NOT saying OSX is perfect nor that I like everything about it! It definitely has issues, but you specifically asked for examples of the user experience and "polish." I'm sure you (or others) could (and probably will!) argue about many of these points, but these were just the first off the top of my head.
Indeed. But from my experience, there are times when life might be easier without it. Yes, it does prevent breaking things if you yank too hard on the cable, and that's cool. But unless it (and the socket) is quite new, it doesn't always make a good connection. And as time goes by, the magnetism loses some of its mojo and the plug develops an annoying tendency to fall off the computer if you so much as look at it sideways.
I've had the exact opposite experience. I have a going on 3.5 year old MBP and the Magsafe works perfectly. Have not had any falling out problems, any loss of magnetism, etc.
On balance, I think I preferred the physical plugs Apple used with their iBooks.
and I HATED that connector. I had a Powerbook I used for just about 3 years. I would have kept using it except I went through a power cord a year. The connector being round spun around and caused shorts in the wire. The first power cord I had literally sparked and caught on fire with it just sitting on my desk! (that one was replaced for free). The rest of the laptop still works fine but I have to position the power cord juuuuust so, to get any power at all. As a result of it constantly losing electrical input, I also had to go through two batteries in 3 years.
DisplayPort are electrically incompatible to DVI and HDMI, but no one notices, since the video cards adapt to it. Apple fans will probably mod me down to hell, but DisplayPort is the reinvention of the wheel. A sleek and stylish wheel of course, and we totally, absolutely needed another connector for digital video that is electrically incompatible with DVI and HDMI. Since we only had 2 digital video standards to choose from. Maybe one of our Appolytes can enlighten me, but to me, it has no substantial advantages over HDMI.
FWIW, Apple is just one of the supporters of DisplayPort (or mini-Displayport)...Dell and Lenovo both use it as well. So I don't think you really need to get flamed by Appolytes (like the term btw)
On the otherhand, I bought a Dell Vostro small business computer in a packaged deal with a 23" monitor and the damn thing came with only a VGA port. THAT'S irritating.
Hey, I've got no problem with power connector standardization (though like others here I think the Apple Magsafe beats just about any other connector I've seen)...
The post was in reply to somebody saying "I want laptop internals to be standardized"
That's my thought...these things are so custom designed, that I would think requiring eg a discrete video card module with a standard connector would really limit case size, heat dissipation (as you said), and general advancement of laptop state of art.
When average laptops are $1000, how many people are going to spend $200 to upgrade a video card in 2 years when they could get a whole new (much better) laptop for not much more?
So come on, what are the advantages? What is the reason people get so territorial whenever Apple is brought up?
Why so territorial? If that's true I think it's probably because people who use Apple products tend to really like them. I really like my Macbook Pro laptop! When's the last time you heard someone gush about a Dell laptop? Obviously Apple is a favorite target of people who hate Apple (on eg Slashdot) and so it's not surprising that when people make statements like "The closedness, lack of features and general asshattery of Apple" when it's clear they know virtually nothing about Apple, that Apple users defend products they like.
Read the power connector frontpage article on slashdot right now. How many people do you see saying "I LOVE my Dell power connector!" or "I would love to see laptop power connectors standardized on my Acer connector, it's great!" None. You see a crap load of people talking about how great Magsafe is though (and it is, it's great!). I think that sums up the situation really well...Apple designs things REALLY well. Apple software and hardware is full of little touches like that. OSX is a nice operating system that also happens to be based on a unix/bsd core, with full commandline, singleuser mode, etc. It's also got a really polished gui. The iPhone is a really polished phone that most people really seem to like.
Really? You can't run OS X on any hardware, or at least any hardware that can run Windows? I didn't know this and if it's true, it's a huge weakness imposed by Apple to keep people who like OS X buying their hardware. If a Mac can run OS X, Win and Linux, then (barring artificial limitations) a computer containing the exact same hardware can surely do the same.
Right, Apple limits OSX to only running on Apple hardware. Like I said, there IS a Hackintosh movement which while technically against licensing rules by Apple also seems to be utterly ignored by Apple. I've run 10.4 and 10.5 on generic PC hardware and it works very well. Since the base of OSX is open source, I even recompiled one of my ATA drivers to add support for an unsupported chipset. Not bad.
The bottomline--Apple designs solid products. Apple designs products that people like. As I said before, you've got the time to spend researching parts and building computers--that's great, and it's fun, but I don't have that time anymore. OSX is -- and of course IMHO -- a far more polished operating system than Windows, the Linuxes, etc. That's why I'm reduced to buying Dell desktops at work and why I choose to use an Apple laptop as my main computer. I think most people who, for instance, try an OSX laptop for a month, understand this.
I would never go so far as to claim that Apple products are for everybody though...I personally think it's great that there is competition.
Simple question -- why?
Again I have to ask, how is different from/better than ? When it comes to phones, I have had the questionable pleasure of using a Nokia N97 for a couple of months. I have also tried an iPhone 3G and a couple of HTC phones. My current phone is the HTC Desire and I must admit, I haven't loved a tech gadget this much since my SNES (hell, I can even play SNES games on it!). The closedness, lack of features and general asshattery of Apple just makes the HTC (with Android) a much more tempting choice, not to mention the immense amount of available apps and the powerful hardware.
Different from? Well, just try the different phones. They're not the same. You may prefer one, you may prefer another one, I have minimal usage of Android and haven't made a single comparison between the two. Whichever one you like better is the one I would say is better... "lack of features" is pretty much a red herring, iphone too has "immense" (more?) apps, and the general asshattery of Apple in your view a philosophical statement which I don't agree with. If you like the HTC, no problems! Go for it! You may be judging others, but I don't think many people are judging you for your cell phone preferences.
Now though, an Apple computer is just a very expensive computer you can't really upgrade* in a shiny plastic case. It can run any OS and any software for that OS, as can any (much cheaper) computer I build to spec myself and stuff in a Lian Li case.
*Well, technically you can but doesn't warranties and such hinder you from doing such things freely?
No re: warranty. Secondly, you can run any OS on Apple hardware (I think you're confused by the fact that you can't run OSX on any hardware)
Look, if you're into building computers component by component, Apple is probably not for you (though there is the hackintosh community whichj is very much into those things). I only switched to Apple ~6 years ago and have not looked back. When I was younger I too used to spend hours researching components and building my personal and work computers. I don't do that anymore (at least not often).
Can't you like your computers and other people (ie, me) like Apples without it being a source of outrage and shock? Not everybody has to walk in lockstop, like the same things, and believe the same things after all!
At work and at a conference I used it for taking notes, web access, email and calendar (google sync). It's really nice to travel with as well...don't even need to take it out of your bag at security.
At home I've found myself using my laptop less and less and using the iPad more and more for web browsing and email (ie, most of what I use a computer at home for). I did NOT expect that to happen as I, like you, felt it didn't have a use either.
Three news apps -- USA Today, Bloomberg, and Fnancial Times -- are absolutely fantastic. I never would have read their websites previously (unless linked to a specific article) and I've never been in the habit of reading deadtree newspapers, but I use these apps almost every day now. Great UIs.
Last, I have done some reading of ebooks. It supports the open epub format and PDF, so it's pretty nice Still not certain on the ease of reading over long periods of time vs the Kindle.
Apple seems to think that their one phone is the phone for everyone and when it is not, people are going to attack them.
That's not really true... Well, they do have one line of phones obviously (iPhone -> iPhone 3g -> iPhone 3gs -> iPhone4) however even today AT&T sells iPhone 3g, 3gs and 4.
FWIW re: the iPad...
I'm a Mac laptop user and have an iPhone 3GS. I had absolutely zero interest in the iPad...but then we got one for work. I've been using it for about 2 weeks now, at home and at work (and at a conference). I love it...I was really surprised but I do.
I DON'T think it works as a Kindle replacement, and reading ebooks in low light tires my eyes pretty quickly. It also really desperately needs iOS4 / multitasking...but even now I use it at home all the time.
Acer is the #1 (or #2 depending on who is reporting) of laptop sales. Their major growth is because of the laptop/netbook sales.
Relevant how?
I already once referred you to the Acer website. Take a look again. Notebooks are a great example. Three lines. As compared to Dell's at least 6 lines.
And yes, they have more than two models which apparently is to confusing for you to comprehend
You keep resorting to this tpye of ad hom, and I'm really not understanding what your point is. I've even cited other articles that specifically mentioned how Dells multitudes of lines and options were driving customers away (in comparison to HP even!).
The point is not that it is confusing for you or for me. I DO Happen to find the Dell product line confusing. Their marketshare has tanked in the last 7-8 years. Their competitors such as Acer, HP, and your favorite bugaboo Apple, take VERY different approaches to marketing and product lines, and have all increased their sales.
That's the end of the story...If you don't understand that, I don't think I can state it any simpler!
Yes, Acer is BOOMING right now and it is NOT from corporate purchases and it is NOT desktops and it is NOT because they offer an easy web site with two laptops.
You're right, they offer 3 *lines* not 2 *lines* -- I think you're getting confused here, so I just wanted to make sure you understood that point about the lines. I would think Acer succeeds by picking up the bottom of the barrel price and netbook market (being the first to the punch there) ... can't say. I've heard decent things about their technical support. Again, relevant to my criticism of Dell only insofar as I've already explained half a dozen times!
You claimed Apple is so great and blowing away the competition because they only sell a few models and that is what the consumers want
I hate to say this because it sounds too much like an ad hom, but work on your reading comprehension! I've very specifically NOT said what you just claimed. Apple has done well by differentiating their products from competitors and internally. Just like Apple has 2 lines of notebooks, Acer has 3 lines. Apple has been doing very well by any standard. You can "poo poo" all you want, but quadrupling your marketshare in 6-7 years, opening 300 retail stores, etc is not a failure.
I never claimed Apple is blowing away the competition... I claimed they've been very successful (do you disagree?) and have been very popular over the last decade. Again, I don't see how anyone with any rationality in this argument could deny that Apple in the last decade HAS been successful and HAS been popular?
Yes Dell is in a slump, it happens, CS, faulty computers, crappy web site, and probably many other reasons but Dell is not in a slump because the sales are going to Apple because Apple is easier and better place to buy from.
You do realize that the "crappy website" you cite is tied inextricably to "crappy marketing of product lines" ... ? Ironic much?
If your SOLE point is that "not every customer who switched from Dell, switched to Apple" I will 100% agree with you!
That is how this whole thread started.
Interesting, because your first post more sounds like an adamant defense of Dell and an attack on Apple, not because I suggested that "probably quite a few people" had switched from Dells to Apple (I said this in reply to your post).
Yeah, market share, Android sales are up 24% over what they were last year. In the last 3 years, Acer sale increased almost 40% pushing Apple down to 5th.
Could not be more irrelevant to the conversation at hand. Does cellphone OS (that most people probably don't know anything about and replace every 2 yars on avaerage) really have any correlation to desktop computer usage? I don't think so.
We can through out statistics all day long, bottom line, Apples current rate of growth in the last 5 years in the PC market is about close to 1% a year and even SHRUNK last year while Acer growth was 50%. OMG 50%! Of course YOU assume that since Dell went down, those people went to Apple, sorry, statistically, they went to Acer.
You unwittingly make my point _again_. Go look at the Acer product lines (specifically for business desktops which is what I've been talking about since post #1).
We have been hearing for 10 years how awesome Apple is and how much inroads they are making into the home computing market but they only have 8% total after 10 years. 10 years is a LOOOONG time in the computer industry and going from 2-8 in 10 years is not a fast paced sprintto the finish by any stretch of the imagination and as glorified as you seem to think.
So now you're reduced to arguing semantics, which has exactly what relevance to my argument...?
I guess posting on slashdot is like standing on a pedestal? :-p
Other than the analogy, I agree with you!
Your highly selective reading and responding to my posts matches up quite nicely with your highly selective picking of sales numbers.
Okay, Dells numbers should be falling greatly, noticeable AND those numbers are going to Apple. Let's look at overall sales numbers?
Yes let's! I'll respond to this paragraph again at the bottom.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/19/technology/19compute.html
Apple also picked up market share in the United States, growing to 5 percent, from 4 percent, as its shipments increased 30 percent, according to Gartner. Apple grew faster than any other PC maker in the United States, Gartner said.
http://www.maclife.com/article/news/apples_market_share_pc_world_continues_surge
or http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/04/14/apple_sells_estimated_1_4m_macs_in_us_to_capture_8_market_share.html
Research firm Gartner said that Apple was the fifth-largest PC seller in the U.S. for the three-month quarter to start 2010. An estimated 1.398 million Macs were shipped in the States, and Apple only lagged behind HP, Dell, Acer and Toshiba.
Looking back 6 years...
http://www.macworld.com/article/43741/2005/03/marketshare.html
Apple's desktop market share in the United States for the fourth quarter of 2004 was 2.88 percent (and 2.06% q4 2003)
So in those 7 years Apple managed to almost quadruple their marketshare (2.06 to 8.0, 6% or 3.8x). Dell lost 9%. HP gained 3%. etc.
http://www.channelinsider.com/c/a/Dell/10-Things-Dell-Must-Do-to-Catch-Up-to-HP-221568/
Obviously primarily an opinion piece with many facts, but does this sound like anything I've been saying about Dell / Apple?
1. Keep It Simple
Dell tries to do too much. The company has spent the last few years attempting to be the company that satisfies any potential buyer. That's a mistake. HP has shown that simplicity will reign supreme in the computing market. That company has gone out of its way to provide customers with several options that will satisfy them in one way or another. Dell should follow suit. Its buying process is a mess that's overrun with customization options. Even its product offerings are all over the place. Enough is enough. Keep it simple, Dell. That's what customers want.
Okay, Dells numbers should be falling greatly, noticeable AND those numbers are going to Apple. Let's look at overall sales numbers?
Dell loses ~8%, Apple gains about 6%. Those are the numbers. You don't think that's significant? Really?
Dell has closed or is closing almost all of their facilities in the US, including a factory building ~5 years ago near where I live. Should this tell you anything?
given the success of the Apple store
Success, measured in what why? Compared to what?
Success meaning that they are profitable! Success meaning that they have helped quadruple Apple marketshare in the last 6-7 years. Success meaning that while others like Gateway tried--and failed--to open branded computer stores, Apple is opening more every month. Is this really that difficult to see?
Apple has been so popular over the past decade
Popular means going from 2% of the computer market to 8% in 6-7 years. It means everybody in the WORLD knowing what an iPod, and a lot of them having one! It means 1.7 million iphones sold in 3 days at prices higher than most Android phones (and none of the 2 for 1 deals). It means virtually every
you specifically claimed Apple sales of computer were skyrocketing
No, you're wrong. I EXACTLY said "Do you wonder how many people have gone to dell.com only to be overwhelmed and then head to a nearby Apple store? Given the success of the Apple stores and Apple in the last roughly decade, I think it's probably quite a few people!" and EXACTLY "why Apple has been so popular over the past decade." I stand by both of those statements absolutely. The rest is just your imagination.
I showed you sales numbers that showed that the mass exodus to Apples way and "simplicity" was not very effective for computer sales.
I never claimed a mass exodus. Go read my posts (again?). Apple market share HAS increased greatly in the past 10 years, and especially in the home/personal segment. Not so much corporate (though Google is a good example of a switcher company).
Dude, think about what you are saying, they only have TWO MODELS
You're a dedicated troll... Read my first post again (or look at apple.com for that matter). You seem to be confused about Apple's product lines.
Yes, and what was the situation 10 years ago? It's more so if you look at laptop sales which are more indicative of the home/personal market than desktop computers which seem to be becoming dinosaurs outside of the workplace.
You claimed because Apple had less choices, it was an advantage and people liked that and that is why they were buying Apple.
No, I distinctly did NOT say it was just because Apple had less choices. I said it was an example of "Apple simplicity." Part of that simplicity does mean that yes, there are fewer choices to make than if you're speccing a Dell, but most of it comes down to clearly defined product lines that are easy to understand, their names make sense, and they are clearly demarcated between themselves.
Open an appliance store and only offer 2 washers, 2 dryers, 2 refrigerators, 2 couches, and 2 different microwaves. See how long you stay in business
Isn't that exactly what Apple has done with the Apple store? After all, they offer ~3 mp3 players, 2 laptops, 3 desktops, 2 cellphones and 1 tablet? And they're all even the same brand!
And we all know how succesful Apple stores have been over the past 9 years...
Still 100% missing the point. It doesn't matter whether you or I or Joe Random Slashdot User are capable and willing to do the research. I HAVE bought Dells and probably will again. Irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
The point is that Apple's product line is easier to understand and more straightforward than Dell's. From this information, I speculate that this goes a long way towards explaining why Apple has been so popular over the past decade.
I think a lack of empathy goes a long way towards explaining why some (eg) Slashdot users have such a hard time understanding other people's motivations. I think this is a perfect example of you failing to understand many people's motivations, and instead ranting at me (though I'm struggling to understand what there is to get worked up about in the conversation here?). Apple is brilliant at marketing...I think even the biggest Apple haters would agree with that? Does that tell you anything about their product lines?
People are buying Apple for reasons other than they only have two to choose from that should fit everyones needs and that's all anyone should want or need to compare from.
Here's your one nugget of (partial) wisdom in your rant. People ARE buying Apple for other reasons. It's exactly like I said in my previous post in this thread... Apple has product lines that are clearly differentiated from other PC makers and clearly demarcated amongst themselves. The average Dell/Compaq/HP/Acer/etc are identical and practically indistinguishable.