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iPhone 4 Reception Recall Ruckus Roundup
Readers today have been sending tons of stories about the iPhone 4, so here are a few of the highlights: Following the Consumers Reports announcement that the iPhone has antenna problems, Andy Patrizio asks if Apple can withstand the pressure to recall, while CNet estimates that a recall would cost them $1.5B. But that's just the latest on the iPhone 4 — the long running carrier exclusivity lawsuit rumors have been upgraded to Class Action status.
CNet estimates that a A recall would cost them $1.5B
It's not only that cost. In 3 days Apple's stock has gone down a huge 5%, costing Apple and their shareholders millions of dollars and creating huge image problems.
It also look like Apple's PR team completely messed up, from the "learn a new way to hold a phone" to removing of any critical comments from their support forums. Considering PR and marketing is one of Apple's strongest areas and which pushes everything they do forward, they did some incredibly stupid decisions.
Now that they are basically ignoring the problem, any more time they take doing nothing will cost them even more.
How you like them Apples?
I already returned my iPhone 4, barely got it out of the box before return shipping. Droid X looks like it'll be replacing my half-functional iPhone 3G tomorrow.
There's a spot in User Info for World of Warcraft account names? Really?
Jobs is too arrogant to allow a recall...they'll find a way to blame customers for this eventually, or weasel out of doing a full recall.
So what we're saying is that the new iPhone is getting a bad reception??? :)
Take Nobody's Word For It.
With all the Apple publicity they probably made an extra $1.5 billion. It's not like the iphone is gods gift, anyone ever been to europe/asia? They had phones like this five years ago.
If they dont release a patch, their stock will be useful only as wallpaper by the weekend.
Except, that is what many savvy investors are counting on, because the fall in their stock price is really a reaction of fear.
Savvy investors never trade on emotion, and they bank on the emotion of others by reading the emotions that drive the market. This still works because the majority of those who trade stocks are still very emotional.
Apple basically shot themselves in the foot, and their wounds are bound to heal. That is far better than if someone else (like MS) shot them and they got hurt, as that would be a sign of vulnurability to competition.
That puts the share price at a mere 177% of its value 1 year ago. Their investors must be pissed!
The problem is the antennas being shorted by a slightly conductive (sweaty) finger bridging one or more of the three breaks.
Apple doesn't need a recall to fix the problem: future phones can have a coating, and a free bumper ($10 cost to Apple) to existing customers solves all the problems.
At 2M iPhones, the "recall fix" would be a whopping $20M.
Test your net with Netalyzr
Look, I love Apple products. I own / have owned a MacBook Pro, 2 iMacs, an iPod 2G, an iPhone 3GS, an iPad, an Airport Express, and an iPod shuffle. I get it.
But, seriously Apple, you did a recall with the MacBook battery issue. You replaced batteries and even though it cost you some money your karma was helped by it. Do the same with the iPhone 4... offer owners a case which you test to make sure fixes the problem. It will probably cost you $20 per for these including shipping and processing assuming you can get the cases for $4 or so. But you will instantly shut up the majority of people who are complaining VERY loudly about the problem AND you will have "done the right thing".
NO company is capable of 100% preventing mistakes, but it's how you act as a company that determines how you're perceived. You can be cool and hip all you want but if customers are afraid to purchase your products because you've stuck to your guns and forced lawsuits to happen you lose in the long run.
I'm very disappointed in the way they've handled this. The least they could do is issue certificates for free bumpers IMMEDIATELY for any iPhone 4 owners who want one, in addition to waiving the restocking fee (which they already did). That would have done a lot to shore up customer loyalty and keep their image good.
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
Millions of Apple fans have learned in the hard way that warranty doesn't cover a device if it suck by design. It's a "rear lights warranty", as we know in automotive field - "warranty void when the rear lights disappear from sight".
The reason I have passed on ALL of the iPhones so far is I don't buy into the hype, not to mention a LOCKED OS. Hey, if you just pick up a phone to use it, then perhaps the iPhone is for you, but, if you are a "tinker" type, I don't see how the iPhone would be good. Even given all of the faults with WinMobile, at least you can hack it til the cows come home. The way I look at it is it is MY phone, and I'll screw around with it how I want to. I don't like "locked" phones. My current phone, HTC Rhodium (Tilt2) never even had the stock OS fired up. I told the guy at the at&t store that I would set it up later (since I already had a Touch Pro). Took it home, unlocked it, wiped out the stock OS and put one from XDA-Developers on it and tweaked it exactly how I wanted. Job's & Company have a MAJOR public relations nightmare on their hands, and a golden opportunity for some of their competitors to run ads that exploit this problem.
... that my iPhone 4 is outperforming my 3GS, in terms of 3G connection quality and reliability, sometimes to pretty miraculous degree, such as at the train station I wait at every work day, where my 3GS's signal would jump up and down and go away and come back and even when it was showing 5 bars the performance was horrendous. With the iPhone 4 I can in fact reproduce the signal drop when held in my left hand, going pretty dramatically from 4 bars to only 1, but even at 1 bar the performance is outstanding and for the first time ever I've got a 100% reliable and fast connection here. I can stream audio and browse the web and it's fast, even at 1 bar. At 4 bars if not left handed.
So I'm not downplaying the drop in signal strength issue, as that is there when you hold it left handed (and I do usually), but that in practice it performs better, even a lot better, then my iPhone 3GS. So is the antenna flawed or not? I would say that it is flawed, but only from a PR standpoint. It's a public relations disaster, brought only by people who don't have an iPhone 4 and who seem to have a vendetta against Apple for not making a phone that they want, and due to magazines like Consumers Reports, who aren't seeing the forest for the trees. They are focusing solely on that there is a drop, and ignoring how it performs in practice. You need to just use the phone and see how it works for you, and most, I suspect, once they stop staring at the signal strength gauge, are going to find that it does better then their previous phone, even by a wide margin. The iPhone 4 is a great phone. Yes, you should put a case on it, as that will reduce the signal drop issue, but that issue is not nearly as big of an issue as it is being made out to be. It's not a non-issue, it just not the main thing you should be concerned about. You should be concerned about how it performs in practice, and the iPhone 4 excels there.
--- What?
Just don't but apple! Simple. Let all the fanbois think they're cool with the 'appulzzzz' and then laugh when their call drops just as they're telling you how 'great' the iFAIL is.
None of this would be happening now.
See, you can't actually sell things with GPL. You have to only give it away.
Cannot admit: iPhone4 irradiates you when you hold it wrong. It may appear that the iPhone4 gives you cancer.
Manufacturing: There may be a manufacturing component to it as well. We know they were rushed out the door without even time for the touchscreen bonding glue to dry. Clearly the Foxconn QA was not followed. If an engineer leaves a thumbprint on an internal antenna it detunes it. Imagine what a rushed assembly with leaky glue would do to the tuning characteristics.
Cannot admit: Apply don't pay their manufacturers enough and circumvent their own QA guidelines to rush product to market. They may appear like greedy bastards.
AT&T: The drop problem is also in a small, small part down to AT&T's 3G network topology. Nowhere near as bad as the old iPhone problem of congesting the signalling channels, this is simply due to the fact that 3G signals are way more sensitive to received signal strength. When you hold it the wrong way not only does the handset not heat the base station well (showing fewer bars on the phone) but it is the network that cannot hear the iPhone that causes the call drops as your entire hand and arm are radiating instead of the antenna. When you broadly detune the antenna with your hand the lower powered 3G signal is simply too feint and distorted to be heard by the base station. It does explain why the locations where the issues appear are random and seemingly not related in all cases to the downlink signal strength shown on the handset. RF signals are like that.
Cannot admit: The issue clearly isn't all to do with AT&T and they blamed them the last time with the 3GS.
This is sad, funny, and true.
http://vimeo.com/13252563
Mike @ The Geek Pub. Let's Make Stuff!
Proprietary BS
DRM
and most of all for spreading cheesiness..
a few reasons to chuckle
I assume admins are active in an annual affirmation of amazing alliteration as apparent amid abnormal (also atypical) alphabetical arrangements!
First, fed-findings-fault-fat-feet
Reception Recall Ruckus Roundup
What's next? "Open Office dot Org offers Oracle, Overstock, Opera, Oprah, opplications for the oPhone?"
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Design: Only an ignorant fool would put an external, metal antenna on a phone. Not only does nobody do this, nobody has ever done this in the history of mobile phones.
Ok Rosie.
Except that I had a number of mobile phones with external pull-up antennas, in the early days...
And the external antenna on the iPhone 4 means I get a lot better reception and data throughput than I did with the 3Gs.
It's pretty obvious there's an idiot here, but it's not Apple. It's all the people going on about a phone they have never even touched. The design is a good one, it provides real value - they simply need to coat the area right around the gap to prevent conducting, which happens in real life only occasionally at worst. I do not have a case, don't live in an area with a very strong signal, and I have yet to drop a call from this.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
What's the best actual fix for existing & new phones? Assuming there is a real problem with the antenna, but only when shorted with hand in "right position".
Idea #1: A new antenna design using coatings or some factory installed bumper/widget/plastic spacer installed with a modified antenna? This assumes a "4.1" phone design which would be sold instead of the current design.
Presumably this could be retrofitted onto existing inventories of iPhones and these could be swapped for existing iPhones in the field, which could be further refurbished and swapped, etc.
Idea #2: Fix phone through methods above. Sell new phones only based on this design. Existing users get free bumper or some kind of credit.
idea #3: Do nothing. Revise design for 2011 iPhone seasonal launch.
Jail. Break. The iPhone is just as hackable as other systems out there.
Not trying to be an Apple apologist here, as I share the distaste for Big Steve's control freakery. But seriously, if you have a mind to hack your iPhone, it's highly doable. People have gotten Android running on it, for heaven's sake.
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It would cost them a LOT more than that. If the letter A were recalled, they'd be Pple Corportion.
And they'd sell iPds instead of iPads. Their stock symbol would have to change from AAPL to PL - but that's taken, and so is PPL. PPLE is available, but pple.com is owned by a squatter.
And it's not just Apple. If the letter A were recalled:
About the only good thing about recalling the letter a is that vaginas stay vgins - no matter how many times they're poked! Hmmm, on second thought, maybe it's worth 1.5 billion.
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Anand found that gripping the iPhone 4 a certain way could indeed cause up to 24dB of signal drop. This was worst-case, with a sweaty deathgrip. Touching more lightly or with less moisture had less of an effect. Gripping other smartphones near their antennas also caused a drop in signal.
The non-linear signal representation of the "bars" can also lead to some confusion related to this. The valid range is between -113dB (no signal) and -51dB (full signal). However, 5 bars represents the range of -51 to -91. 4 bars is -91 to -101. 3 bars is -101 to -103. 2 bars is -103 to -107. 1 bar is -107 to -113. If you have a full strength 5 bar connection, that 24dB drop won't even move you out of the 5th bar. If you've just barely got 5 bars, the same 24dB drop can put you down to 1 or 0 bars.
Anand's testing also confirmed what sjonke said in the comment above. Even when it was showing the same signal strength, the iPhone 4 was better at not dropping calls compared to the 3GS. The page shows a screenshot of a 625/31 run on Speedtest.net during a call with only -113dB.
Do you realize how many people buy Apple products because they "simply work"? This one unreliable product has planted the seed of doubt.
Except that in real-world use it's not unreliable. It's been very reliable, more so than the older phones. So the people more on the fringe of tech will pretty much hardly even notice this kerfluffle and just keep buying what they like and works well.
If the iPhone 4 is seeing such huge problems why is there a 3-week backlog for new orders?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Defense Lawyer: "Can it be used to make phone calls?"
Expert Witness: "Well...yeah, but it's reception isn't as good as it could be."
Defense Lawyer: "Is the reception worse than most other phones on the market?"
Expert Witness: "Well no, but..."
Judge: "Next case please."
I'm not surprised that that the iPhone 4 isn't absolutely perfect in every way. No product is. This is a pretty minor issue that has been blown out of proportion. If I were in charge of Apple I would just give out those 'bumpers' for free and hope this all blows over.
Everyone I know who has "upgraded" their 3GS to the new iOS4
has regretted it.
I suggest that greed and the anxiety of other hardware becoming
competitive has caused Apple to release hardware and software
which should not have been released, because it was not
ready to be released.
I use an iPhone, but after Apple's imperious conduct in the App Store,
and the new strategy of iAds, it will be my last iPhone, that is
certain. I hate to say it, but it's looking more and more like Apple
would be better off without Steve Jobs making dictatorial
decisions which end up coming back to haunt Apple.
I welcome anyone's suggestions for which hardware to buy, in order to replace
what will be my last iPhone !
"Just don't but apple! Simple. Let all the fanbois think they're cool with the 'appulzzzz' and then laugh when their call drops just as they're tellng you how 'great' the iFAIL is."
Careful, let's not scare it away. It's a "stupidicus moronicus", in it's natural habitat. This creature drops into conversations, injects poorly thought-out misspellings of brand names into a text stream, staples "Fail" into it somehow, and moves on.
We're desperately hoping they go extinct, but there's no sign of a decrease in their numbers. We may have to institute a culling season.
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Not any more. Now stock prices go for what you can sell them to others for. If others aren't buying because it's going down, then you can't sell. If you can't sell, then you won't buy. Not because Apple (or any company, really) is in actual *trouble*, but because the IMAGE of the stock price is "going down, DO NOT BUY".
The problem is the antennas being shorted by a slightly conductive (sweaty) finger bridging one or more of the three breaks.
Apple doesn't need a recall to fix the problem: future phones can have a coating, and a free bumper ($10 cost to Apple) to existing customers solves all the problems.
At 2M iPhones, the "recall fix" would be a whopping $20M.
I suspect $20M is a worst case scenario. A cost of $10 might be accurate if it includes the labor of someone walking into the store and having an employee plug in their phone to check eligibility and then install the bumper. If the owner opts to get the bumper online the cost would be far less. More importantly the recall would be "voluntary" not "mandatory". Only someone experiencing or fearing the problem, or someone wanting a free bumper, would bring their phone in. I expect many would ignore the recall.
"Everyone I know who has "upgraded" their 3GS to the new iOS4 has regretted it."
Chalk me up as somebody who didn't regret upgrading. I'm not blown away by anything, but it's working fine on my 3GS. I haven't noticed any problems.
Since Apple's "fix" is "don't hold it the way we show it held in our marketing collateral" I think that Consumer Reports is clearly in the wrong here. Maybe Apple should, instead of actually fix the problem, consider suing Consumer Union another overpriced niche-product maker did. (too bad the case was dismissed)
And, from one of the linked articles:
If checking the number of bars "is a dangerous way to draw technical conclusions about a phone's reception" then a) why include the bar graph at all b) by what means do you recommend customers determine reception c) the bars are supposed to reflect dBm in a user-friendly way, and last I checked dBm is exactly what is used to determine an antenna's performance and d) when cell companies tout "more bars" as a key feature of their network, shouldn't it mean better reception and fewer dropped calls throughout their network?
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
I don't know about the design flaws in the new iphone because I do not own one. However the IOS4 upgrade made my 3g a sluggish piece of crap. I have a strong suspicion it is related to adding multitasking. I could have cared less about multitasking I knew it was a recipe for disaster and I was certainly not proved wrong. Besides the sluggishness there are a ton of other bugs with it, mail sync with gmail is horribly broken etc. I have not confirmed but it also seems to leak resources.
Got Code?
is coating them with something non-conductive enough to solve the problem? i see that BestSkinEver (and Zagg as well) has some little plastic bits included in their skin that looks like it covers the antennas. could someone that has one with a BSE or Zagg shield chime in and let us know if it's made any difference?
Apple makes some excellent products but it is a commercial, public, for profit, enterprise; it is not a sacred icon.
What is new for Apple is that they are now one of the biggest players (if not the biggest) in a huge market place and their customers are not all Mac zealots or other customers who are encultured in and accepting of the Apple Way. The Apple Way includes: simple interfaces (er... I would call them functionally deficient and somewhat paternalistic/controlling/condescending), and mostly excellent hardware (except for the odd laptop that falls apart on you).
The Apple Way also comes with an arrogant attitude and flat out denial that anything could be less than excellent with anything that Apple produces. This is likely an inherited trait from the executive management team.
With a huge customer base that goes beyond the repeat Mac buyer group, Apple has to learn that the old way of dealing with problems just won't work for serious issues and the one thing that really does not fly is denial of an obvious, demonstratable, repeatable, and serious problem. Waving the PR flag and smirking that it is 'the signal strength meter that is not reading right/you're mistaken on your expectations' comes across like the proverbial lead fart.
Apple has to do something significant here and the longer that they drag the issue out, the more they will have to pay. They should just fess up and come out with a fix. eg: free bumpers to existing customers, new iPhone 4.1 in the works. Some kind of discount/rebate for the iPhone 4.
Apple has a lot of "goodwill" value in their brand name (billion$$$) and they are pissing it away with bad PR. Apple needs to look long and hard at how they want to be viewed in the market place. Supposedly they are a quality brand meaning people expect both innovation and high quality. Along with that, the customer should be treated with respect and not like they are moronic sheep. My apologies to sheep afficienados for my insensitive remark.
It's a shame too because other than the antenna issue, the 4 is an excellent phone.
I have to support hundreds of iMacs and MacBooks at work, and I've had to call in tons of warranty repairs the last couple years (easily 10x than from our pool of HP and Dell machines). I thought maybe apple was ditching quality on the macs in favor of the iPhone, iPod, because of iTunes $$$, but it seems they're just neglecting quality across the board. It doesn't "just work" anymore; it just looks pretty (until the style looks outdated).
The 3G/3GS had what sounds to be the same problem with poor reception when you hold the phone while touching the metal edge around the screen.
You can repeat this test as follows:
1. Put your phone into "field test" mode by dialing *3001#12345#* (curiously discontinued with iPhone OS4).
2. Note the signal strength when phone is sitting on a table.
3. Note the signal strength when holding it normally or just touching the metal edge - it's way lower.
4. Pinch the phone so that you are not touching the metal edge. Note that the strength returns to the level it was at while on the table.
I have personally not been bothered by this limitation with the iPhone 3G in normal use. When signal strength is really poor, I avoid touching the metal edge, but aside from that, it's business as usual.
I would be curious to know if the iPhone 4 is any worse than the iPhone 3G/3GS. Has anyone seen a comparison?
I have a 3gs from beginning of this year so I'm not eligible, but my wife is and has been waiting for a few months for the 4g to come out.
It now looks like she is going to either wait for apple to issue a fix or go with an android phone. If anything I know she is not alone and I'd guess she probably represents 2 or 3% of potential customers that are now not going to buy this device.
"(I) have this unfortunate condition that causes me not to believe a single thing any politician says when a mic's on.
More so than other Apple Phones on AT&Ts network.
Actually I think currently it might be as good as any phone on AT&T. You are right that users have been bitching since launch about AT&T, although (slowly) they have been getting better...
I still don't think they spent as much as they should on infrastructure upgrades.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
It's not only that cost. In 3 days Apple's stock has gone down a huge 5%
So what does in mean when in a few hours, it goes up $3.48?
Because the stock is up substantially today.
You picked a really bad day to complain about the stock it would seem.
It is nice that people panic when bad news comes out and let the rest of us have slightly better purchasing opportunities. But then people realize how insignificant the problems really are and how quickly people are buying the new phones, and the stock goes right back up again...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Slashdot has a Borg Steve Jobs icon for every Apple story?
My wife and I upgraded our phones from Razr's (also with AT&T) to iPhone4's on launch day. AT&T's network is not nearly as bad as the iPhone makes it. I can't make or receive phone calls in my office any more. We get calls dropped all the time. We've had occasions when one phone shows 4 bars and can make and receive calls and data while the other one just shows "Searching...". The only solution I found was to reset the Network settings. I can call my phone while it claims to have 3 or more bars and I'll hear ringing before being directed to voicemail on the calling end while the iPhone remains completely silent on the subject. I don't get notified of voicemail until hours later - all while the phone pretends it has connectivity.
My friends tell me this is just what you expect with the iPhone and that my phone actually works better than their previous generation iPhones. So your statement might be correct if you define "most other phones on the market" as all the previous generations of iPhones but is completely false otherwise.
The iPhone is a really shitty phone but it's a testament to how well it does everything else that I'm still only "considering" returning it.
Mmmm.. Donuts
What has two thumbs and has no reception problems with his iPhone 4 whatsoever? This Guy!
The solution to this is to offer to refund the full price of any iPhone 4 until the end of the year, no questions asked. I would be surprised if 5% of the phones came back.
If cigarettes cause cancer, why do so many people still smoke?
Support Right To Repair Legislation.
So you are saying buying a cell phone is committing yourself to a corporation-centric religion and if you jail break a phone then you are morally corrupt and a sinner?
Others might view jail breaking as an act of libertarian virtue in a world gone mad with corporate control freaks. ;->
I grow weary of that quote.
The suit never goes to trial. Apple settles. The lawyers get a cash settlement (to cover their fees). The class members (read: iPhone owners) get a dollar amount applicable as a credit against future purchases from Apple.
The winners: Lawyers and Apple.
The people who neither win nor lose: iPhone owners (who always want more Apple).
The losers: Everybody else who has to continue to endure daily Apple "news" stories as if they were any better or more significant than Angelina/Brad stories.
From the last link in the post, it seems as if the class action suit will try to shut down Apple's restrictions on what software is available in the App Store, as well as the remote-kill switch for installed apps. I would love to see this making it illegal to put a kill switch on the phone for breach of contracts period.
On top of that they're trying to attack the fact that it was sold as a locked phone! Are they going to end up having to use an EU-style cell phone approach to the market? I would hope so, the providers and some manufacturers are really screwing people over!
---- I am certain of only one thing : I know nothing else.
The name of the publication is Consumer Reports. Just yesterday, a summary here listed it as Consumer Report.:
Once again, it's Consumer Reports.
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Last week, Blizzard thought they could just disregard another PR fiasco with their RealID forums policy and hoped customers would just forget about the issue and just accept it as is.
How'd that work out for them?
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CNET is a traffic baiting site. Just as bad as Techcrunch. Now I see CR is in the same league as well.
Yes there is a problem. But yaws, CR has made this problem much more about them, and their site getting massive traffic rather than an honest viewpoint. Why drag it out in blog pouts? Why not just rate the phone and be done?
Have you consulted CR for anything recently?
A clear plastic sticker fixes any issues for those who seriously never intend to put the mostly glass phone in a case. While it was stupid for Apple to allow such an obvious flaw to make it into consumers hands, the fix is so cheap and easy I am dumbfounded that they haven't already mail you all stickers just to shut you up.
So RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE and in the end you will receive a sticker to fix the issue well after you have already purchased your case that fixed the issue. Then you can get back to complaining about how the battery isn't replaceable or whatever it is that you people cry about.
Link or lies! A 4bar drop to 0 has never happened to any of my phones no matter how I hold them.
Let me google that for you (Nexus One)
There were videos around for other phone if you simply do a search.
If you can't replicate the problem, then you are simply in the same boat as iPhone 4 owners who can't replicate the problem it's supposed to have either (I know a few iPhone 4 users that cannot get the signal to drop, and athough I've been able to reproduce it I can't get it to happen all the time).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
This surprisingly may be a boon for Apple as it hearkens back to the days of Windows Vista and more historically New Coke. http://www.irisemedia.com/blog/2010/07/13/the-iphone-4-officially-flops-windows-vista-anyone.html
I have an Apple fanboy friend that I recently talked to about his thoughts on the iPhone 4 problems, and he is a true to the kool-aid follower and replied that it wasn't a real problem just a bunch of isolated incidents. He has not yet upgraded though since he waits for the initial bugs to get worked out before jumping in on a new technology. So anyway he was trying to argue that the iPhones didn't have a real problem and that getting the protector was an adequate fix, that Apple shouldn't have to pay for it.
I'm not a mechanic but tried to make a car comparison. What if some company sold a car and shortly after they sold millions of that car they found that a wheel would fall off whenever you made a left turn. Instead of fixing the problem, the car company said everyone needed to buy a giant bumper that fit around the car that would hold the tire in place when they turn left, but the trade off is that the car is not a little bigger, might not fit in the garage or parking places quite right, etc...
People would demand that the car company fix the car itself and not offer a workaround which covers the real problem. Its like treating the symptoms of an illness instead of the illness itself. You can drink all the chicken soup or take all the cough syrup you want but that isn't going to cure Pneumonia. Apple currently has a defective product, it is their responsibility to fix their product's defect, not the consumer's to buy a protective shield, not Apple's to give all users a shield either. They need to FIX their problem at the source. If it takes a redesign to protect the antenna and recall/replace all of them in circulation, so be it. For some reason people are giving Apple a free ride over a critical flaw in one of their major products when they've gone after other companies in other industries for much less serious flaws in their related products.
So, all I need to make an iPhone work properly is not hold it too tight,
No.
I hold it normally.
If you hold it like you are trying to crush a rock, then you can get the signal to drop some - as with most other phones.
I'm not careful about how I hold the phone and it does not matter.
Oh, and incidentally, as an HTC user - no matter how hard I grip the phone, I can't get it to lose a bar of signal
Some iPhone 4 users say the same thing - and they are right, for themselves. However there are also videos showing HTC drops as well.
That's what everyone is failing to understand here, is that in real life other phones have the same problem if you use them in specific ways. In everyday use those phones aren't really affected much either, just like the iPhone 4.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
But, seriously Apple, you did a recall with the MacBook battery issue. You replaced batteries and even though it cost you some money your karma was helped by it.
Karma nothing. Recalls of dangerous products are mandated by US law. Even "voluntary" recalls aren't; the company either does them voluntarily when the company or CPSC finds a defect, or it risks being sued and paying a penalty in addition to doing a recall.
For that matter, selling a defective product that is not a safety hazard does not trigger a "recall." Unless these iPhones are strangling small children, catching fire, or are poisonous if touched, there's no recall potential here.
Duct tape sales are up and apple fanbois blood-pressures are up...
Apple would be smart to offer a public apology, and that apology should come directly from Jobs. He's really at the center of the hubris, with this "you're holding the phone wrong" flip response. There's still time to correct this, but any more hubris breaks the public trust, and that will cost real billions of dollars and give competitors a real opening and a much needed morale boost.
They can't bluff their way through this. As pot committed as they are, they should fold it.
wow, can i have some of that tasty kool aid that you're drinking (you low-life sack of shit.)
More Apple Hater maturity! Instantly, through your own verbiage, I come off about 100 IQ points higher than you.
I mean, who are people supposed to believe - someone who actually owns the phone for real, or a hater with a burning irrational hate of Apple that calls people "a sack of shit".
Sorry, "Low-life sack of shit". I didn't want to misquote you, people need to understand just how lacking in intelligence you really are and presenting the full quote helps.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
You asked:
"If the iPhone 4 is seeing such huge problems why is there a 3-week backlog for new orders?"
This is a serious question? Obviously, there are still many people out there who haven't seen this failed product for themselves yet and they've come to trust the Apple name so much that they're willing to ignore the reviews and get one. But, the number of loyal Apple customers is dropping faster than iPhone calls!!
Torrents. Photoshop is just as gratis as other popular image manipulation programs.
I call bullshit. One of my coworkers just bought one with a mere 36 hour lag from time of order to having it in his hand.
Ok. I was just told by a friend of mine they went to order one (yesterday) and it was supposed to be a three-week wait. Perhaps it's a regional thing, or they were just wrong... that's what I get for not having direct experience with the matter. Kind of like people complaining about the iPhone 4 signal issues without owning one.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
FYI, iPhone 4 lost to the EVO on CNet's recent Prize Fight. Why? You guessed it.
I have an engineering background and while I have by no means conducted a scientific study, I can tell you with utmost certainty that the iPhone4 does hardly has a signal reception problem.
It has a signal TRANSMISSION problem.
I've done quite a lot of mucking around with speed test apps on the device and I have observed that while touching the left gap between antennas does cause a marginal decrease in download speed, the signal is by no means blocked. To me, it appears the device can still hear the signal from the tower pretty well even with a human hand to detune the antenna.
Upload speeds, on the other hand, are severely crippled or blocked altogether. It appears that touching the gap has an extremely negative impact on the device's ability to emit a signal strong enough for the tower to hear. This theory is supported by call tests I conducted in which the other party was unable to hear me whenever the gap was touched, even though I could hear their voice just fine.
Quite by accident, I also happened to set my phone down next to a set of computer speakers which were very sensitive to cell phone radio interference, resulting in the typical "GSM Buzz" which most of you of you have surely experienced. What I discovered was that a single fingertip over the gap would almost completely eliminate the speaker buzz due to the interference. Touching anywhere else on the device had no discernible effect. Once again, it would appear that touching the gap severely hinders outgoing transmissions from the device, even over extremely short distances.
As I said, these observations are about as un-scientific as it gets, so feel free to draw your own conclusions. But as far as I can tell, touching the gap is enough to stop your phone's outgoing signal from ever reaching the tower, and a tower which thinks your phone is no longer there isn't going to maintain your call for very long.
What I find shocking is that noone has bothered to test and report on the SAR exposure figures when user is in direct physical contact with the antenna during normal expected use of the product as designed.
How did product as designed even make it out of the FCC?
Real-world tests by Wired, Engadget, etc. all show that you can have 4 bars and great signal. Hold the phone and have zero signal.
Read the followup from engadget.
Mostly you find some people can replicate the problem, but that in real life it's not causing many issues. Which is just what I said.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
One year later at WWDC 2011...
Steve Jobs: We've been doing a lot of hard work to make wonderful things happen. One thing we've done was hire the world's best RF engineers. Apple now employs the world's best radio specialists. And now that investment is finally going to pay off with our new line of products.
*crowd applauds*
Steve Jobs: Introducing, the iPhone 5.
*crowd applauds and cheers*
*screen switches to a black rectangular piece of black glass with no buttons*
Steve Jobs (shouting over the crowd): Isn't that beautiful?
*crowd continues to applaud and cheer*
Steve Jobs: The iPhone 5 now comes with the latest and best antenna technology. It has an vertical "omni-directional" antenna built right into the device; because you should be able to make phone calls. From your phone. Isn't that wonderful?
*crowd uproars applauds, cheers, and get on their feet*
Interview with an iphone camper:
Interviewer: So what's so great about the iPhone 5 that makes you want to camp outside?
iPhone fanatic: Well for starters, it's just gorgeous, aaaaand it let's me make voice calls with my boyfriend! I've always wanted to hear my boyfriend's voice on my phone!
Interviewer: You do know that phones have been able to do that for more than 100 years?
iPhone fanatic: What? No way. Don't lie to me. Why else would millions of people be out here waiting just like I am? Besides, this is the iPhone. I'd do anything for the iPhone.
iPhone recalls you!
I totally agree that having to jailbreak your phone is crappy, and I completely understand people rejecting Apple products because of this. But it's just not correct to say that you CAN'T hack an iPhone.
Getting Photoshop via a torrent is actually illegal. Jailbreaking your iPhone is against Apple policy. The one can result in big fines. The other can (at worst) result in voiding your warranty. The two are not comparable.
Couldn't you just make a car analogy like everyone else?
People keep calling for Apple to redesign the antenna and replace phones, but how many changes can they make before a new revision have to go through the 6 month FCC testing process? I'm guessing their hands are tied in terms of changes to the design. So inevitably free bumpers it will likely be.
A company might put the antenna on the outside of the phone if they thought they had a technical solution to compensate for the change in inductance.
If you touch the iPhone 4 antenna anywhere on the right side, it does not cause a signal drop. The problem is specific to a point on the lower left. To me that implies that there is more going on with the issue than simply touching a metal antenna.
Remember when all cell phones had external, extendable antennas? At that time, maybe only an ignorant fool would have put a small antenna inside the bottom of the phone. But technology advances, and now almost every phone is built that way. Maybe what we're seeing is the very public troubleshooting of a new approach to antenna technology.
Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
I've not been able to replicate that result - you should read engadgets follow-up on the story showing people simply do not have that kind of problem in real use:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/13/yes-the-iphone-4-is-broken-no-the-iphone-4-is-not-broken/
It's a problem, but it's not serious if it almost never happens.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Spokesbeings for the Kinsey Institute announced that they were "stunned" to learn that for millenia human males were using an incorrect algorithm for orally reporting the size of their member, resulting in frequent exaggerations. A report of "5 bars" was in reality often closer to 2 bars.
A software fix is unlikely to be effective and a hardware fix is not a trivial matter. One possible work-around: tell your partner that "you're holding it wrong."
Weeks of coding saves hours of planning.
From TFS:
But that's just the latest on the iPhone4: the long running carrier exclusivity lawsuit rumors have been upgraded to Class Action status.
The class action lawsuit is about carrier exclusivity, not the app store or other software restrictions. This should be obvious considering the Kindle and every game console have the exact same software restrictions, with the Kindle even having 1984 remotely removed from users' devices, without (afaik) a lawsuit being filed against Amazon.
The carrier exclusivity lawsuit for Apple being tied to AT&T seems absurd. Is there any way whatsoever this lawsuit will succeed?
What would blocking carrier exclusivity mean for every other phone manufacturer? The (dumb) Nokia phone that I have now is Verizon-only. MOST phones have been carrier-exclusive, especially considering we only have 2 primary carriers per technology (GSM and TMDA) in the US anyway.
The lawsuit makes about as much sense as a CPU-Exclusivity class action lawsuit against Microsoft for not making Windows on PowerPC. It's lawyers making an absurd lawsuit against a target with big pockets, hoping to get swatted away with a settlement.
I've had an iPhone 4 for a few weeks now, and largely it works 99% as promised. IMHO there are bigger bugs than the "don't touch here" antenna problem!
1. Overheating shutdown... (I think). If the phone is in my pocket, sometimes I take it out and it's off... I'm guessing it is overheating (hot down here in Texas...)
2. GSM unit crashes... I sometimes venture out into the boonies and sometimes the gsm system just stops working with spotty coverage in hilly areas. When I return to a city with a strong signal, the unit never comes back up and signal strength stays at 0-1 bars.
3. Occasional app crashes... sometimes an app just crashes, usually one of the older apps like facebook, rope n'fly and a couple of other games. It's actually really rare, and I don't seem to loose anything, so it's minor at this point. These apps were rock solid on my 3gs phone, so that's why I mention it.
Overall I'm pretty happy the experience though... it's a lot faster. The voice quality is much better. The screen is fantastic. If #1 and #2 can be fixed then it would be fantastic, otherwise I'll return it and wait for iPhone 4.1...
I said no... but I missed and it came out yes.
Doesn't insulating it technically make it no longer truly external? Whether it is encased in 10 inches of plastic or 1/4 mm, it's still protected from conductive surfaces, which is the point.
But it *isn't* the point. All tests that people have done show that just insulating the antenna with thin tape or similar does not change anything. I find it highly interesting that people are again and again coming up with that "coating" idea. It's nonsense. It's not a problem with conductivity, it's a problem with capacity.
What you need is a certain distance between the antenna and your hand. Really thick tape helps a little bit, a bumper or a case helps more.
By the way, switching off WiFi or 3G makes the problem go away too. And it seems that the problem also depends on which of the many frequency bands the iPhone supports it actually uses in a certain situation. It's not that easy, really.
This antenna is obviously not perfect but it's actually a miracle that it works as good as it does. This was not just an oversight. I'm pretty sure they put lots of effort into it to make it work at all. Give them some slack, trying new things is never easy.
I wouldn't be surprised if external antennas integrated with the case would become more common in the future. There's only so much room in a small smartphone and you need room for the battery. Going the easy way and putting the antenna inside the case comes at a cost here.
I'm totally surprised that so many nerds seem to be so much against innovation. Were the first LCD screens really trouble-free? What about the first touchscreens?
How does the share price going down cost Apple anything?
It doesn't immediately but it does affect their cost of capital. A high stock price makes it relatively appealing to raise funds (if needed) through equity versus debt markets should the need arise. It also affects the appeal of using stock as currency for acquisitions. The higher the stock price, the less it costs Apple to do an acquisition. This is how AOL was able to buy Time Warner, despite TW being a much larger company. An inflated stock price is useful in the same way that having a strong currency helps consumers buy imports cheaper.
That said, 5% is not a big deal other than maybe a portent of things to come.
Are they borrowing so much money that a 5% drop in their share price has upped the interest rate they pay?
Not really. Apple presently carries no debt (go look at their balance sheet) and has a large pile of cash. But a 5% drop does have a small influence on their cost of capital if they were to try to raise money in equity markets. Nothing to get worked up over at this point. If they do recall the iPhone though I'd expect a fairly substantial (but probably short term) drop.
BTW, MediaTek who provides about 80-90% of phone chipsets in Asia have just signed onto the OHA.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Which means exactly nothing.
First, successful connections are not determined by signal strength (that's dBm (decibels per Miliwatt) not dB (decibels)), they are determined by Signal to Noise, an area with a high signal strength and a high SNR are more likely to drop calls then an area with low signal strength and low SNR.
Secondly, it fails to actually test the antenna. Anand is only testing the strength output signal not an actual connection. The problem with the Iphones aerial is not that it is dropping signal, that's just the easily visible side effect. The problem with the Iphone aerial is that when you make contact with it your hand becomes part of the aerial which changes the electrical length of the aerial. The electrical length determines which frequencies the aerial receives and transmits on. This means that out of the same signal you had before, most of it is now being interpreted as noise. The drop in dBm in just the obvious part, the electrical length is the real problem and why the phone drops calls/signal.
The anandtech article is nothing but an Apple fluff piece that is trying to obfuscate the problem.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Los Vegas Odds call it Even Money .... CEO Steve P. Jobs, resigns.
RTFA:
The suit asks the court to ban the sale of locked iPhones in the United States and also seeks a ban on Apple restricting what software users can install.
Now I know you can interpret it a few different ways. But in all cases that means more control of the device for consumers. It's not an absurd lawsuit, it's about information control. Right now, with the iPhone (and to a slightly lesser extent Android phones) all of your data and what you can install on the phones can and is controlled by the company who sold you the phone. Apple controls the market so they have approval rights over what you can install, and also controls how to remove or remotely kill your phone. Google's terms of service for Android are essentially the same. That is what they're seeking to overturn. Return control of the hardware to the customer who purchased it, which is what it's supposed to be!
---- I am certain of only one thing : I know nothing else.
Going off my memory, which was that U.S. forces pulled up just inside the Iraqi border. Obviously my memory was wrong. Sorry.
Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Personally I own a iPhone 3G and have been happy with it. I was considering to upgrade to 4G a bit later.
Now, I'm waiting much later, until Apple actually fixes the issue. I haven't used a case for my iPhone and it's held together well for the 20 months. Likely will continue to do so for months to come, like any phone should without additional cases and overtly careful handling. No, I don't use the phone as a hammer, but I don't caress it to sleep either. And because I don't want a case for a phone (to make it bulkier), I'm not buying the 4G until it can be used without.
Second reason why I won't be buying a 4G any time soon is that I made the mistake of installing iOS4 to my 3G. BAD mistake. The iOS4 is unstable and veerryyy slllooooww on the 3G. I don't know about the 4G, if it is as unstable but I wouldn't risk it. Luckily I found out how to downgrade my 3G back to 3.1.3 with help of: http://www.macworld.com/article/152428/2010/06/roll_back_iphone_3g.html
I still lost the backup and it took hours to get the phone back up to speed again...
If all else fails, pull the plug and get out...
The Life is out there...
It's not that crucial, when it's all said and done its a phone. DUH
Apple is planning a surprise news conference about this issue. 15 July 6pm (BST).
Sorry I missed that - quite strange that they would tie up software restrictions with carrier restrictions, as these are entirely different issues.
But in all cases that means more control of the device for consumers. It's not an absurd lawsuit, it's about information control.
Personally I would love to have all phones available across all carriers, and would also love to have full software access (or at LEAST reverse-engineering rights despite the DMCA).
But I still think the lawsuit is absurd. Countless other companies that have been doing the same things for years or even decades. Does Nintendo have a "monopoly" on their WiiWare marketplace? Does Amazon have a monopoly on the Kindle marketplace? Sony on what OS can be installed on the PS3?
The way this should get "fixed" is by the courts overturning the DMCA provisions that prevent reverse engineering. After that, you could go to Best Buy and "buy" a jailbreak kit for your iPhone that lets you run apps that do support 3rd party marketplaces, or the cards that let you run your own software on the DS.
Contrary to that hope, Sony and Nintendo have both been locking things down further and winning lawsuits against sellers of jailbreak kits. Why would the courts spontaneously reverse all this case law when it comes to Apple and the iPhone? That's why the lawsuit is absurd.
Unfortunately, even if they "win" it's going to be a settlement that gives the lawyers a pile of cash and gets the customers a $5 coupon. Apple and kin will get to keep being as restrictive as they want. Nothing good will come of this. :\
http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/gadgets/apple/iPhone4/part2/signalbarmapping.jpg is a good picture comparing the display changes in 4.0.1.
4.0 was broken down as -51 to -91 / -91 to -101 / -101 to -103 / -103 to -107 / -107 to -113.
4.0.1 is broken down as -51 to -76 / -76 to -87 / -87 to -98 / -98 to -107 / -107 to -121.
Android's four bars are divided up as -51 to -89 / -89 to -97 / -97 to -103 / -103 to -113.
With 4.0.1, it will accept a lower signal before dropping to "No Service" (-121 instead of -113). It also divides the range up more evenly. What was previously the lower end of the 5th bar is now in the range of the 3rd bar, as one of the largest examples of how this display update changes things around.