Apple Offers Free Cases To Solve iPhone 4 Antenna Problems

Apple just finished their press conference about the iPhone 4 antenna issues that have been widely reported and discussed in the past few weeks. Steve Jobs started by showing that the problem wasn't limited to iPhones, using videos of the BlackBerry Bold 9700, the HTC Droid Eris, and the Samsung Omnia 2 as examples, all of which dropped bars while being gripped in certain ways. He said, "This is life in the smartphone world. Phones aren't perfect. It's a challenge for the whole industry. Every phone has weak spots." He went on to say that only 0.55% of all iPhone 4 users have called in to complain about reception problems, and that the return rate on the iPhone 4 so far is less than a third of the return rate for the 3GS. Jobs then said that according to their data, the iPhone 4 drops an average of less than one additional call per hundred than the 3GS. He continued by pointing out that because the 3GS was based on the 3G, there was already a large supply of Bumpers, which most customers left the store with. When the iPhone 4 came out, the old Bumpers didn't fit, so stock was lower and fewer customers used them (80% vs. 20%). Therefore, Apple's solution to the antenna problems is to give a free case to every iPhone 4 purchaser before September 30. Refunds will be offered for those who already purchased one. Since they can't make the Bumpers fast enough, they'll be supplying other cases from third parties. Jobs also acknowledged recently reported problems with the proximity sensor, promising a future software update to fix it. Engadget's liveblog of the conference has a ton of pictures and more direct quotes from Jobs. It's worth looking at if only for pictures of Apple's anechoic testing chambers.

Comments

'Bout time

[misophist]

They should have just owned up to the problem and offered this fix from the beginning of this mess!

Re:'Bout time

[agent_blue]

This thing's only been out for a month!! at least give them some time to do their own testing, which they did!

Re:'Bout time

[SquarePixel]

Well, Steve Jobs conclusion was this:

So we've worked the last 22 days on this trying to solve the problem. And we think we've gotten to the heart of the problem.

So the heart of the problem is, smartphones have issues

Epic.

Re:'Bout time

[Haffner]

They did NOT own up to the problem. There was no apology. It was more like, "We haven't done anything wrong, but because we are such a great company, we are going to do you a favor and give you a case" NOT "Sorry, we screwed up, this free case should make it better. Our bad."

Re:'Bout time

[Taelron]

What about the months of testing they did on the unit before they um, I dont know, RELEASED it?

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

To be fair, they had to test to verify the problem. Reports of problems are not necessarily indicative of actual problems (or at least problems as major as suggested by reports). Ask Toyota and the NTSB.

To think that a company should immediately cough up a mea culpa and restitution at the first sign of trouble is simply unfair.

Re:'Bout time

[thestudio_bob]

Do you own an iPhone or is this just Apple-hate?

Re:'Bout time

[shadowrat]

You make it sounds like they created a product capable of killing people when the accelerometer sticks. It's just a toy for gadget whores.

Most critics of apple decry the pedestal that the fanbois and Apple put the products on. To me, Apple's sincere apology could only come off as more self agrandizing. Steve Jobs saying, "I'm deeply sorry for our oversight.", comes across as "We know that nobody deserves to be without an iphone and everyone's lives practically depend on them."

I'm not sure what you want from apple. either return the phone because you don't like it, or rejoice in getting a free Bumpa'

(i don't want to hear the argument "what if someone needs to call 911 and only have their left hand available to hold the phone")

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

Cell phone quality has been so low for so long and people have become accustom to dropped calles "Are you there"s, etc that there is no need to apologize or say you did something wrong. Cell phone quality and its acceptance have become such a norm that my company is thinking of going to VOIP for its telephone including 911. Even landlines have their issues with heavy use. Special holidays and whatnot give those "We're sorry all circuits are busy, please try again later".

Also, with these shiny "smart" phones, the last thing on people's mind is making calls. Everyone I know who has one talks about everything besides using them as a phone. If you want a phone, you buy a phone.

Re:'Bout time

[die444die]

No, they said some people might have the problem that everyone's been blowing out of proportion. But only .5% (not 5 percent, half a percent) of users have even reported the problem. Most of the people foaming at the mouth about this don't even have iPhones, they just want to see Apple fail. Because these people have been so loud, the perception is that most people are having reception problems, which is simply not true. For most people the reception is better. Because the media has created this perception, Apple is giving everyone free Bumpers.

Re:'Bout time

[Haffner]

I recently bought an iPhone, and I have fairly large hands, and when I talk I hold the phone in my right hand. As such, I cannot talk without a case, for fear of dropping the call.

Also, I'm on an ATT family plan so my options were iPhone or terrible other ATT phone.

Re:'Bout time

[ColdWetDog]

What about the months of testing they did on the unit before they um, I dont know, RELEASED it?

What months of testing?

Re:'Bout time

[Cogneato]

Yeah, and another thing... Google has never apologized for the Nexus One having the exact same problem as the iPhone! What is it with these smart phone companies thinking they can screw up and never apologize!

Oh crap, I forgot, we only focus on Apple problems here. Other smart phones with the same problems don't count, especially Google.

Re:'Bout time

[SquarePixel]

Actually, what I've now read on Apple users forums even they are furious. They expected a real fix and they get what, a rubber band you put around the phone? That looks so slick and awesome.

Re:'Bout time

[jbezorg]

This thing's only been out for a month!! at least give them some time to do their own testing, which they did!

Don't you think they should have done the testing before it came out?

( I'm holding the sarcasm meter in my left hand )

Re:'Bout time

[RoFLKOPTr]

Do you own an iPhone or is this just Apple-hate?

Doesn't matter. What if Microsoft had pulled a stunt like this? The entirety of this website would be flooded in a fit of rage, trolling, and Apple fanboys saying "That's why I have an iPhone!!!"

Re:'Bout time

[akirapill]

from the WSJ: "[A reporter asks] 'Are you willing to make an apology?' 'You know, most of the customers that have iPhone 4s think it is the coolest thing they ever owned,' says Jobs. To the customers that are having problems 'I apologize to them.'"

Re:'Bout time

[david_thornley]

This isn't a problem that will obviously show up under any circumstances.

If you're in an area of strong signal strength, like the Apple campus, you aren't going to notice it. If you use it in disguise, like the leaked one was, you aren't going to encounter it, since insulating the antenna from the hand solves the problem. If you don't hold it in a certain way, the problem won't happen. Moreover, this sort of thing happens to all phones, to a greater or lesser extent. Hold it in a certain way, and it'll lose signal.

It's a problem that shows up on the final physical model for certain ways of holding the phone in areas without a strong signal. Assuming Apple did tests under those conditions, a few testers would report a problem. They expected a few testers to report a loss in signal strength, because that always happens. In other words, it was the sort of problem that even a good testing program might miss.

Then, of course, the final physical model was released to millions of people who lived and worked in areas with considerably different signal strengths and who held the phone in various ways, and the problem became evident.

Speaking as somebody who has written software with bugs that shipped with intact bugs, I sympathize. Some problems are hard to find by the QA department, and the only way to become aware of them is to ship and let users doing different things in different environments pound on the software.

Re:'Bout time

[tom17]

Free cases, not bumpers.

Re:'Bout time

[misophist]

They were warned by their own antenna engineer that this was an issue.

http://gizmodo.com/5587815/top-apple-engineer-warned-jobs-about-antenna-problems

Re:'Bout time

[shadowrat]

What about the months of testing they did on the unit before they um, I dont know, RELEASED it?

dude, their test phone was stolen in a bar. maybe you forgot.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

Furious? I can't believe people still aren't getting this. Their return rate has been ~1%, they've received apple care calls on 0.55% of the phones they've sold.
This is a non-story blown out of proportion by the press who obsessively over-cover Apple products. Apple users are not furious.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

+1 Insightful!

Re:'Bout time

[Captain Spam]

What about the months of testing they did on the unit before they um, I dont know, RELEASED it?

They did plenty of hard marketing and artistic testing and research before they released it. Give them SOME credit, geez.

Re:'Bout time

[poetmatt]

yeah, "we'll provide cases for 2 months" is a bit of a cop-out unless they release a new version by then.

Re:'Bout time

[jemtallon]

ROFL. Classic! Thanks for the nugget of joy, AC :D

Re:'Bout time

[Daniel Phillips]

Furthermore, Apple does not admit the antenna is defective and does not intend to fix it.

Re:'Bout time

[voidptr]

So in other words, the iPhone 4 sucks, but every other phone you'd consider sucks more.

Re:'Bout time

[NotBornYesterday]

He went on to say that only 0.55% of all iPhone 4 users have called in to complain about reception problems

I'm guessing the other 99.45% couldn't get a signal.

Re:'Bout time

[gnuguru2k]

what months of testing? the engineers were too busy boozing it up at the bars to have time to test the product.

Re:'Bout time

[stone2020]

The months of testing a product goes through before it is released. Or are you saying Apple doesn't test it's products before they release it?

Re:'Bout time

[Gadget_Guy]

This thing's only been out for a month!! at least give them some time to do their own testing, which they did!

But they spent that month testing everyone else's phones. Namely "BlackBerry Bold 9700, the HTC Droid Eris, and the Samsung Omnia 2".

Apple has handled this poorly every step of the way. And at the end of the saga, they still try to weasel out of trouble with the old line "it wasn't just me, they are doing it too". I used to try that one on my mother when I got in trouble as a young boy. It didn't work for me then, so I don't see that it should work for Apple now.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

Because the media has created this perception, Apple is giving everyone free Bumpers.

To be fair, Apple uses the media to create the perception of perfection, shininess, trendiness, and bug-freeness in their products. So I'd take it all as indicating that media whoring cuts both ways.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

Did somebody say AC?

Re:'Bout time

[WiiVault]

Worth noting, true or not Jobs claimed in the Q&A that that story is "bull". Who knows, but it certainly calls that rumor into question.

Re:'Bout time

[powerlord]

I recently bought an iPhone, and I have fairly large hands, and when I talk I hold the phone in my right hand. As such, I cannot talk without a case, for fear of dropping the call.
Also, I'm on an ATT family plan so my options were iPhone or terrible other ATT phone.

Ah, so returning the phone isn't an option, and this is just AT&T-hate (entirely justifiable), rather than Apple-hate specifically.

Re:'Bout time

[WiiVault]

Well they "lost" one to Gizmondo months ago, thats field testing in my book.

Re:'Bout time

[KahabutDieDrake]

Considering the amount of free press and hype that /. gives apple, it's only fair they portray the other side as well. Don't you think? Oh crap, I forgot, fanbois don't like to be called out on the facts.

I don't have an iphone, I won't be buying one, and it has nothing to do with media perceptions. However, when you build yourself up to be the top, you make yourself a target. This kind of reception problem might in fact be common in some phones, but apples is the perceived "top", and therefore the primary target, making a mistake like this is worse for apple than it is for HTC, or Nokia.

Lastly, just put a fucking antenna on the phone like every phone for 20 years has had, and these problems disappear entirely. (because no one holds the antenna to talk on the phone) I know I know, function before form, how ridiculous.

Re:'Bout time

[strength_of_10_men]

But of course when the obsessive over-coverage is positive you see no problem, right?

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

Steve Jobs started by showing that the problem wasn't limited to iPhones, using videos of the BlackBerry Bold 9700, the HTC Droid Eris, and the Samsung Omnia 2 as examples, all of which dropped bars while being gripped in certain ways.

Did any of those companies offer free bumpers or ANY fix for the problem on their phones? No? Then why should Apple? Just because they have more haters hatin on them than other companies, trying to make a mountain out of a molehill?

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

Speaking as somebody who has written software with bugs that shipped with intact bugs, I sympathize.

Did you then deny it was a bug, blame it on someone else and make excuses?

The least they should do is offer people a phone with the problem fixed or a full refund.
The antenna problem is a design fault, they knew about it before it shipped.

Some problems are hard to find by the QA department, and the only way to become aware of them is to ship and let users doing different things in different environments pound on the software.

They're not that hard to find when you get warned about the problem by your engineers & others.

Re:'Bout time

[rjiy]

Maybe the return rate was low because people wanted to check out the software fix they announced early on?

Re:'Bout time

[qortra]

You make it sounds like they created a product capable of killing people when the accelerometer sticks.

Funny that you reference something that turned out to be a non-problem to defend the creators of an actual problem.

It's just a toy for gadget whores.

But they don't market it that way. They claim that the iPhone changes everything. So, their customers believed them and care whether it works properly.

(i don't want to hear the argument "what if someone needs to call 911 and only have their left hand available to hold the phone")

I'm sure you don't. I wouldn't want to lose a debate either. The fact is, the hand with which you hold your phone is probably not the first thing on your mind when you're making a 911 call. Sometimes when there is an emergency, you need to be doing something with your dominant hand (right hand for most people) while you talk.

In reality, there are all kinds of reasons that an unreliable phone is a bad thing, not just edge cases like 911 calls. But hey, at least Apple cared enough to hold a press conference and point their finger at other companies.

Re:'Bout time

[WiiVault]

I thought it was lefties who had the problem... I have yet to hear righties with this issue. But hey I'm not saying it can't happen, just that you seem to be a niche of a niche at this point. No phone will suit everybody even the Jezuz Phone.

Re:'Bout time

[snowwrestler]

Two months is plenty of time for people to decide to:

- Take the free case and keep their iPhone 4
- Return their iPhone 4 for a full refund, no restocking fees etc.
- Hear about this problem and decide not to buy an iPhone 4 (if they don't have one already)

People who are upset about this product can simply get a different phone. People who are upset about this product and don't own the iPhone 4, and have intention of getting one, can simply get a life. Within 2 months we'll be on to the next flamewar.

Re:'Bout time

[xaxa]

Cell phone quality has been so low for so long and people have become accustom to dropped calls "Are you there"s, etc that there is no need to apologize or say you did something wrong. Cell phone quality and its acceptance have become such a norm that my company is thinking of going to VOIP for its telephone including 911.

This is weird. I don't think I've ever had a dropped call that wasn't because the train went into a tunnel or something. Even many tunnels (or roads in valleys etc) are OK now, there'll be a tiny directional antenna at the end (picture).

I've never had a dropped call while standing still.

Even landlines have their issues with heavy use. Special holidays and whatnot give those "We're sorry all circuits are busy, please try again later".

The only time I've heard anything of like that is after the 7/7/2005 attacks in London. Priority was given to pre-registered numbers (police, doctors etc. register their numbers). However, I only read that that was what happened, I didn't have any problem making calls myself.

Re:'Bout time

[macs4all]

Apple has handled this poorly every step of the way.

Really? Pray tell, how would YOU have handled it differently?

they still try to weasel out of trouble with the old line "it wasn't just me, they are doing it too".

No, they came right out and said the call-drop numbers were slightly higher on the 4 than the 3GS.

What you are calling "weasl(ing) out" was in fact Apple showing that they are, in fact, not alone (by any stretch of the imagination) in having signal-attenuation issues depending on how a phone is held.

It's called "Physics". Look into it.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

Because, you know, the drop on those phones was miniscule compared to the one from the iPhone 4.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

They may not have tested signal strength, but they did the important tests, like measuring how thin it was and how little it weighed. And that's all that the iPhone homos really care about anyway, is how it looks.

Re:'Bout time

[IICV]

And according to Jobs during the Q&A after this announcement, the Bloomberg story (that Gizmodo cites) is bullshit.

Re:'Bout time

[Mike Buddha]

Well, hell yeah. Apple's products have been average quality at best for a long time, but their users (a diproportionately high percentage of the bloggers on the internet) gloss over that fact all the while snickering and making much ado over nothing when minor issues arise in Microsoft or competing products. This is finally an issue that is so easily quantifiable that even Apple can't sweep it under the rug by pretending that all phones have this egregious design flaw, or by blaming AT&T(or Orange, or one of the myriad of other carriers the world over that the iPhone has had terrible reception on). So, yes, a lot of this hubbub is overblown, but it sure is fun to sit back and watch Steve Jobs squirm like the weasel that he is.

Re:'Bout time

[macs4all]

NOT "Sorry, we screwed up, this free case should make it better. Our bad."

You must've heard a different Press Conference than the one that Ars Technica liveblogged. Because that's pretty much what Jobs said. He did point out that the iPhone 4 was not alone in having signal attenuation issues regarding people's various ways of holding the device; but that was a factual presentation. No smoke-and-mirrors here.

Re:'Bout time

[Peach Rings]

What issue? This iphone only drops 1% more calls than the last. That's practically progress.

Re:'Bout time

[DJRumpy]

Considering he demonstrated the exact same effect with HTC and Nokia phones live this morning, I would say the problem was pretty clearly not isolated to the iPhone 4 and it's antenna design. Every phone on the market suffers from this to some extent, and the ones shown in the demo also dropped fro 5 bars to 1. It has been blown way out of proportion. The 4G demonstrated almost a one dropped call more out of 100 calls as compared to the 3GS. Most of the noise it turns out, was just that. Noise...

As to your other point, they are offering a full refund after 90 days, no questions asked, and no restocking fee. If you try a case, and you still aren't satisfied, you can return it for a full refund.

This is the reason people buy Apple and they consistently rank tops in customer satisfaction, and why the return rate for the 4G is only 1.4% compared to 6% for the 3GS. People know they will be taken care of. End the end, if it still doesn't suite your needs, return it and get a full refund.

Re:'Bout time

[Flytrap]

That story was also debunked and discredited

Re:'Bout time

[macs4all]

Because, you know, the drop on those phones was miniscule compared to the one from the iPhone 4.

Citation, please. Because the drops on the other phones that Apple showed were as bad or worse than iPhone 4.

Re:'Bout time

[theguyfromsaturn]

Give Apple a break. Of course they couldn't test the iPhone 4 prior to releasing it, on account that one of their employees lost the prototype which was later found by Gizmodo. How were they supposed to test it without the single prototype they had?

Re:'Bout time

[BlueBoxSW.com]

Do you own an iPhone or is this just Apple-hate?

This seems like a rational question to me. Wonder why it was tagged as flamebait.

I've noticed that those who complain the loudest about Apple's every move also proclaim loudly that they don't own and would never own Apple products.

Something sneaky tells me that they do, however, own Apple options (puts) or have shorted the stock.

Re:'Bout time

[djrosen]

Really? Because if that were even REMOTELY true do you not think that BB users would not have made as big a stink at RIM if an entire user base had the issue as bad as the iPhone seemed to have?

Jeeeze, just admit you F'd up! Instead he wants to show videos of how all other phones have issues but mysteriously the users of those phones dont see it as nearly as big an issue and neither did Consumer Reports. Considering that Apple customers love the company as much as they do and it still triggered a sh*tstorm and you still want to say Apple isnt alone?

If ever there was an example of kool-aid drinking, this is it.

Re:'Bout time

[hercubus]

This thing's only been out for a month!! at least give them some time to do their own testing, which they did!

They don't need a month for testing. I'm sure engineers replicated the issue fifteen minutes after they first heard about it, then figured out why it didn't show up in pre-launch testing about 15 seconds after that.

What took a month was meetings, consultations, coordination, marketing spin, legal input and legal review...

Anyone here not seen that drunken dance of the pointy-haired, parasitic elite at their own place of work?

Anyone work someplace where engineers are allowed to decide how to rectify high-profile issues? No?

Re:'Bout time

[Kristoph]

They did NOT own up to the problem. There was no apology.

Steve Jobs: "To our customers who are affected by the issue, we are deeply sorry,"

Why let facts get in the way of a good rant, eh?

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

So Apple is smart enough to spend $100 million on 17 anechoic chambers for testing, but not smart enough to then test it in real world conditions?

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

in his defense, i can duplicate the issue on my blackberry 8900.

Re:'Bout time

[obarthelemy]

they were gonna test it, but then they lost the test unit in a bar....

Re:'Bout time

[rabblerabblerabble]

But only .5% (not 5 percent, half a percent) of users have even reported the problem.

And how many users comprise .5%? Anyone can use statistics to prove a point...48.5% of people know that. I am not an iHater. I love my iPod touch for what it is and does and hope to get an iPhone when they are available on Verizon as AT&T is not very good in the Rocky Mountains

Re:'Bout time

[jeffmeden]

By then, the reasoning goes, you will either realize that like Steve says, "there is no problem" or you will simply price the bumper in with the rest of your purchase since you have had two months of full Apple acknowledgment to familiarize yourself with the phone's drawbacks.

I mean, who can't look at a picture of a huge anechoic chamber and just, you know, "get it".

Seriously, wtf does an anechoic chamber have to do with cell phone reception? Are loud noises really that detrimental to signal strength?

Re:'Bout time

[Spazholio]

And they would be called out that, just like you were.

Re:'Bout time

[bennomatic]

Where's all the rage about pushing and selling the Kin, and then killing it in six weeks? Are all those Kin purchasers getting free somethings-or-others? I don't know--they might be--but nobody seems to care, because it's not Apple.

Re:'Bout time

[Mysticalfruit]

I think other companies like Verizon are aware of this issue. My HTC Eris Android phone came with a free case and screen protector. Now I know why...

Re:'Bout time

[ArcherB]

So in other words, the iPhone 4 sucks, but every other phone you'd consider sucks more.

No. What I think he meant was, "So in other words, the iPhone 4 sucks, but every other phone carried by ATT sucks more."

ATT's only offers the Aria and Backflip for Android. While the Aria and Backflip are nice phone, they are not the iphone4g. All OS considerations aside, the hardware doesn't even compete. I don't see this changing as ATT doesn't want to piss Apple off by carrying an Android powered phone with better hardware specs than the iphone.

I'm sure this guy would be quite happy trading in his iphone for an ATT powered EVO, Incredible or DroidX.

Re:'Bout time

[mark-ss]

I recently bought an iPhone, and I have fairly large hands, and when I talk I hold the phone in my right hand. As such, I cannot talk without a case, for fear of dropping the call.

Also, I'm on an ATT family plan so my options were iPhone or terrible other ATT phone.

Afraid? Or have you really had dropped calls?

Re:'Bout time

[mace9984]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... Not a troll :) Hilarious!

Re:'Bout time

[PopeRatzo]

If you don't hold it in a certain way, the problem won't happen

So you believe Jobs that only 0.55% of users had connection problems? Are those "internal" numbers (as in, internal to his head)?

Do you think this would even be an issue if only 0.55% of the users encountered problems? Since over 5% of iPhones are returned and replaced, do you think 0.55% would have even registered with the public, not to mention Consumer Reports?

I would also like to see Jobs data supporting his claim that all his competitors also have this problem. Maybe this is another one of his "internal" numbers. Anyway, when you're trying to position yourself as head and shoulders above all the competitors, having a big press conference to say "they suck TOO!" is pretty weak. This was not the first iPhone, this was iPhone 4. Skin conductivity in a product that's meant to be held in the hand is something that should have been worked out in one of the first three revs.

Re:'Bout time

[Mike Buddha]

Yeah, and he never wrote the emails where he said that it wasn't a big deal. What a liar.

Re:'Bout time

[dhavleak]

Jobs' has motive for saying the story is bullshit (especially considering there is a court case that has been granted class-action status). If he did not deny the story, it wil be used against Apple in the case. Moreover, he has a credibility issue right now.

Gizmodo is a third party, and they have been pretty consistent in reporting on both points of view on this issue.

Just sayin'

Re:'Bout time

[demonlapin]

just put a fucking antenna on the phone

In addition to being ugly, this makes phones larger and harder to carry in a pocket. Nobody wants that.

Re:'Bout time

[Mr. Freeman]

Just because other phones are poorly designed doesn't excuse this one. Seriously, Jobs is saying "Our phone doesn't work well, but the blackberry doesn't work well either, so we don't have to do a good job".

Re:'Bout time

[Malnar]

Are you sure it can detect sarcasm while being held thus?

Re:'Bout time

[cgenman]

Have you ever touched a TV antenna? What did that do to the signal?

An exposed metal antenna is an obvious potential point of failure. Having multiple exposed antennas for different radiation bands, which a user might accidentally bridge, should have been tested thoroughly for this exact problem.

Balls get dropped. It happens all the time. This was not one of those problems that couldn't be forseen or tested for. This was a problem that should have been caught in testing, if not design. Someone screwed up. People screw up, it happens. But someone screwed up.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

maybe my sarcasm detector is off today, but are you saying that they only had one test phone?

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

Regardless, it was a new antenna design. I hardly think Apple tested it on their own campus and only with alternative casing. My guess is they knew exactly what problems might arise and were just hoping most users thought they were their own issues (using it indoors, on AT&Ts network, etc).

Re:'Bout time

[RoFLKOPTr]

Where's all the rage about pushing and selling the Kin, and then killing it in six weeks? Are all those Kin purchasers getting free somethings-or-others? I don't know--they might be--but nobody seems to care, because it's not Apple.

Who would rage about that? I do feel a little sorry for the 6 people that bought one of those, but that's overshadowed by my laughing at their stupidity.

Re:'Bout time

[dhavleak]

What if someone needs to call 911 and only have their left hand available to hold the phone?

Re:'Bout time

[UnknowingFool]

Here's my timeline of event:

June 24: Apple release iPhone4. Some users start reporting reception problems.
July 2: Apple issues statement acknowledging that reception can degrade if a phone is held in a certain way; however Apple also acknowledges that they have been displaying the wrong signal strength based to an incorrect formula. Apple promises a software fix but reminds customers that they can return the phone if dissatisfied.
July 2- 12: Web goes wild with reports of rampant reception problems
July 12: Consumer Reports does not recommend iPhone4 due to problems. Doesn't think software bug is an adequate explanation.
July 16: Apple says antenna problem only affects a small amount of users but offers free cases to those affected.

Re:'Bout time

[cgenman]

They might have been advised against saying "we screwed up" by their legal department. Directly admitting a design flaw might open them up for other liabilities.

Re:'Bout time

[freakmn]

That's why I'm glad I have a Kin!

Re:'Bout time

[GweeDo]

Take it back on Sunday and get a Samsung Galaxy S (called the Captivate on AT&T).

Re:'Bout time

[Aboroth]

Oh please. It was an issue of bridging metal contacts with another conductor - your hand.
Any competent antenna engineer would know that would be an issue, even without testing.

Whoever is responsible for this should be fired, as should anyone who should have caught the mistake of the incompetent engineer(s), and their jobs should be given to competent people.

Steve Jobs' response doesn't impress me. It is another example of his reality distortion field confusing the issue for everyone and whipping up the religious fervor of everyone who for some reason swore fealty to a corporation.

Re:'Bout time

[BarryJacobsen]

Really? Because if that were even REMOTELY true do you not think that BB users would not have made as big a stink at RIM if an entire user base had the issue as bad as the iPhone seemed to have?

Yes I do think that is entirely true, not just remotely true. Why do I think this? Because no one gives a flying fuck about RIM. No one cares enough to try to pick them apart. No one cares enough to read story after story about them. There's 1,400 mentions of RIM on slashdot (according to google) and 2,840 of Blackberry. There's 5,200 of iPhone 4 (not iPhone's in general, not Apple, 5,200 mentions of "iPhone 4"). No one cares about RIM.

And where on earth do you get entire user base from? If you paid attention to the presentation roughly HALF OF A PERCENT of people reported the problem.

Re:'Bout time

[sirsnork]

Go read the anandtech.com articles for a full description of the problem. in short, yes all phones do this, but in the case of the iphone 4 with it's external antenna's it's WAY worse than on any other device

Re:'Bout time

[Flytrap]

There was an article about the sterility of most testing environments and how a sterile environment (i.e. no sweaty palms, for instance) would have failed to reproduce the real world experience that users experienced.

The result was that by the time field testing began, laboratory testing had already shown the design to be viable and the design set in stone.

Further compounding this was that early field testing would have been done in mule enclosures designed to disguise the final design.

Even after the final product was fabricated, field testing always disguised it in a case (the Gizmodo-gate handset for example was in one such case designed to make it look like an iPhone 3GS).

So by the time the new designed was being tested openly (out of the public eye, I'm sure) by ordinary people with sweaty hands that would exacerbate the attenuation problem, it was already so close to launch date. The design has already been laboratory tested and finalised as long ago as late 2009, from what I have heard... with field testing in early 2010 confirming that the external aerial was not a problem - without realising that by disguising the iPhone 4 as a 3GS, they were inadvertently masking the attenuation problem)

Re:'Bout time

[shadowrat]

There are a great many factors that affect the reliability of a cell phone in an emergency. Many phones can suffer from signal degradation if you hold them wrong. Many phones would fail to work if you were under water or underground (hey, it's an emergency). Many networks would fail if everyone around you was also trying to make a call.

I don't believe it's even recommended to rely on cell phones in an emergency so i don't believe that argument has much weight. If you are in an emergency and call 911, consider yourself lucky that any phone got you the help you needed.

Re:'Bout time

[BarryJacobsen]

Seriously, wtf does an anechoic chamber have to do with cell phone reception? Are loud noises really that detrimental to signal strength?

From Wikipedia: "An anechoic chamber is a room designed to stop reflections of either sound or electromagnetic waves" (read the bold part as: Cellphone Signals)

Re:'Bout time

[Aboroth]

No it is not the same issue on every phone. It is very clear that is not the case.

Yes, any phone will see reduced reception when covered with your hand. Duh.
But, the iPhone 4 will see much worse reception when covered by your hand AND bridging the metal contacts with another conductor, in this case, your hand.

It is amazing to me that anyone falls for this. Steve Jobs is truly a master of generating a reality distortion field.

Re:'Bout time

[Message]

I'd like to see an ATT powered EVO... the EVO is currently CDMA, ATT is GSM... just FYI

Re:'Bout time

[ArbitraryDescriptor]

Any statement about the potentially damaging content of an internal meeting should be taken with a grain of salt. Accusations from anonymous sources and denials made by CEO's at a press conference have equal credibility in this regard.

Re:'Bout time

[EdZ]

The dB drop when holding it is SIGNIFICANTLY higher than other phones.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok....5% of the people have problems...But he also said "less than 1" call per 100 more than the 3GS...so...that looks kind of bullshit to me. Sure, he said "less than", but you wouldn't say that unless it was on the close end of the scale to 1% - otherwise he would have said something like "less than half a percent"...He's already using fractional percentages...And remember - he said this is over and above the dropped calls on the 3GS...And really, if even 1% of the time calls are being dropped, that's a huge bomb as far as I can tell. My verizon droid has yet to drop a single call, and I haven't heard of anyone else dropping either.

The fact that you can even approach a full percentage point is ludicrous, and makes his decision to stick with AT&T look like idiocy. I'm not harping on the phone (although it DOES have a problem), since anyone with AT&T has problems on some level...I just think he should eat the bullet on that exclusivity contract, and get the phone out to real carriers. The new attenna was developed because AT&T is a liability and Apple fans complain until things are perfect - something that will never happen with a sub-standard partner.

Re:'Bout time

[GreyWolf3000]

It's Obama's fault that this mistake caused by corporate greed and cost cutting wasn't fixed weeks ago.

Re:'Bout time

[IrquiM]

Well - it got know pretty fast, so the .05% that reported it, is the number of people which don't read the news. The rest didn't bother when they saw it was already an issue.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

And yet the facts show that dropped calls are essentially identical to a design where the antenna isn't even exposed? Who's in the distortion field?

We already know the dBm drop associated with the phone, and yes it is more than a stock 3GS, but not so much so that it affects usability. 1 out of 100 times, the 4g dropped a call more than the 3GS which has internal antennas.

Re:'Bout time

[dzfoo]

You win the Internetz today.

          -dZ.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

That's what customers are for.

Re:'Bout time

[Bill_the_Engineer]

Do you hold all phone manufacturers to the same standard?

Google learned first hand how hard it was to directly support a phone when they introduced the Nexus One. The Nexus One came with a whole list of issues, and Google was deluged with customer complaints. Complaints included service eligibility problems, people not receiving their phones in a timely manner, and technical issues like poor 3G reception. Basically people complained that the 3G signal would drop when they picked up their phone (sound familiar?). Google had to resort to email only support.

Verizon dropped the Nexus One in favor of the Droid Incredible, Sprint dropped the Nexus One in favor of the Evo, while T-Mobile barely acknowledges its existence, and will pretty much drop it in favor of the Samsung Galaxy S Vibrant.

The mainstream media didn't hype the flaws of the Nexus One, nor did they demand Google to rectify the problems. Instead the technology press produced articles like:

"Why hasn't the Nexus One Flopped (yet)?" - CNet
"Google Nexus One: A Successful Flop" PC Mag
"The Nexus One is a total sales flop" - Gizmodo
The list continues just Google it...

I think the real issue is that we expect Apple to have a higher standard, and the media measures Apple with that standard. Maybe that is why Apple is the perceived leader of the smartphone market.

As for my fanboism: Yes I like Apple computers, but I also have an Android phone that I'm pretty much stuck with. My point is shouldn't we hold all phone manufacturers to the same standard?

Remember after only 22 days, Apple makes a very public appeal to satisfy its customers. Sure they were pressured to act sooner rather than later, but they have a history of providing good customer support. Because of their popularity they don't have the luxury of quietly letting the model die like the Microsoft Kin or the Google Nexus One...

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

Well maybe if there were other smart phones with similar issues they would have thought of testing this. But Apple only does new and innovative things, so they are the first to run into issues.

Re:'Bout time

[lowrydr310]

I'll gladly make the sacrifice of "reduced reception when you hold your phone a certain way" as opposed to the alternative of having an external antenna or one that protrudes above the handset and isn't integrated.

Re:'Bout time

[SETIGuy]

I believe that the antennas in other models were internal rather than integral to the case and exposed. The internal method has problems of its own (attenuation of signal due to metal parts of the case and circuitboards).

Re:'Bout time

[qortra]

Many phones would fail to work if you were under water or underground (hey, it's an emergency). Many networks would fail if everyone around you was also trying to make a call.

The majority of emergency calls are not being placed from within the apocalypse. I'm going to take a wild guess and say the majority of emergency calls are for health reasons ("I/My-Spouse is having a heart attack and/or can't breathe"). In that situation, roughly one person on average will be calling, and he/she will be neither underground nor under water. Second place is probably car accidents. In a car accident, there will likely be more than one caller, but usually not so many that a tower could fail. And again, it is not likely that any of the callers will be underground or under water (unless the accident took place in a tunnel).

I don't believe it's even recommended to rely on cell phones in an emergency so i don't believe that argument has much weight. If you are in an emergency and call 911, consider yourself lucky that any phone got you the help you needed.

Home land lines are disappearing quickly, as are phone booths (and for that matter, phone booth occupying superheroes). So basically what you're saying is (or will become) semantically identical to "I don't believe it's even recommended to rely on emergency calls". It's a total bummer if you're right.

Re:'Bout time

[Aboroth]

Ugh. Reception goes down when bridging the antennas with your hand. Do you dispute that? If you do, you are a moron.
Reception going down doesn't necessarily make you drop calls. Oh boy, duh again.
The iPhone 4's antenna was sold as an amazing feat of engineering, that will improve things. Then it turns out that some moron didn't put a thin, transparent coating over it, making its "advancement" pointless.

So we have a phone, that has a "greatly improved antenna design", that turns out to be designed by a retard. Then Jobs tells us all that this is by design, and everything is fine.

Yes I would call that being in a reality distortion field.

Re:'Bout time

[Cyberllama]

Yeah. Same boat here. I bought a bumper to fix it, but had to wait like 2 weeks to get it. During those weeks, holding the phone in pretty much any natural-feeling manner would result in signal loss. Maybe its a left-handed issue for people with small hands, but even with my right hand the only way I could avoid the issue was to extend my pinky finger as if I was the Queen of England enjoying a sip of tea.

Re:'Bout time

[SETIGuy]

Other methods of mounting the antenna wouldn't have looked as good. Therefore they went with this one.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you read your own link?

7 dBm and 9dBm is not significant. It's not even a bar of typical signal strength, and certainly not significant at all unless you are in a very weak signal area to begin with, regardless of whether or not you capitalize the word 'significantly'.

Cupping tightly:

HTC Nexus One: 17.7 dBm loss
Apple iPhone 4: 24.6 dBm loss
Apple iPhone 3Gs: 14.3 dBm loss

Holding Normally:
HTC Nexus One: 10.7 dBm loss
Apple iPhone 4: 19.8 dBm loss
Apple iPhone 3Gs: 1.9 dBm loss

In A Case:
HTC Nexus One: 7.7 dBm loss
Apple iPhone 4: 7.2 dBm loss
Apple iPhone 3Gs: 3.2 dBm loss

Re:'Bout time

[GreyWolf3000]

A systems engineer that designs the specs needed for an antenna will take in to account a lot of things, including (in this case) attenuation from your hand.

It's not a case of the engineers not knowing that your hand is a conductor; it's not correctly measuring/characterizing the end to end signal quality needed for adequate reception.

Re:'Bout time

[Kristoph]

You said they did not own up to a problem, that's false, they did.

You said they did not apologize, that's also false, because Steve Jobs did, personally, apologize several times.

Now your saying that because during this marketing event Apple also said good things about themselves the apology does not count and your throwing in a murder analogy - in the context of a problem with a cell phone - to somehow justify your inability to keep your facts straight.

What will you do for encore?

Re:'Bout time

[CheddarHead]

This thing's only been out for a month!! at least give them some time to do their own testing, which they did!

Yeah, that whole concept of testing a product before you release it is so passe! You can't expect them to figure out these things until at least a month after release. Those unappreciative customers have been so unreasonable and demanding!

*rolls eyes*

Re:'Bout time

[mdarksbane]

Of course, this is pretty much exactly what all of the legitimate testing (like anandtech's) found when this whole mess came up.

All phones lose signal when held "wrong." The iPhone 4 loses somewhat more signal than other phones. It's not a crazy end of the world flaw, nor it is a unique flaw, but it is a flaw.

Re:'Bout time

[Cogneato]

You have a point. Mom and pop shops like Google hardly ever advertise because they are just too small and don't have the money. Plus, on any ads that are about Google phones, they never make any bold claims at all. In fact, they are kind of down on themselves. I'm always writing them, saying "cheer up, ol' Goog, things ain't so bad!", but they never listen because they are just that modest. Not like those Apple jerks, always walking around all proud, puffing out their chests, spending money on advertising that says good things about their products. Where do they get off saying nice things about the stuff they are trying to sell? Apple should be happy that /. gives them that free press, because lord knows that Apple *never* gets free press.

On a more serious side, I don't own an iPhone either, and I agree that phones need pop-up antennas, but it is my understanding that the whole problem on all phones stems from FCC rules and the evil radiowaves being too close to your head. Given the choice, I am sure that pretty much all manufacturers would not put their antennas under a skin-bag of water.

Re:'Bout time

[tomhudson]

They had plenty of time to test it BEFORE release. I guess Apple is becoming more like Microsoft every day.

Jobs then said that according to their data, the iPhone 4 drops an average of less than one additional call per hundred than the 3GS.

If my phone was dropping one call in 100, I'd be royally p*ssed! 99% is crap. Imagine if your toilet only worked 99% of the time, or your fridge, or your car. Or that 99% of the time, nobody put their boogers in your fast food.

Re:'Bout time

[pixelate]

He said .5% of users CALLED INTO APPLECARE to report the problem. Obviously this leaves out a lot of people who took steps to either exchange or return or complain without actually making a phone call to AppleCare. Remember, Apple is an engineering company. They're great with numbers!

Re:'Bout time

[Aboroth]

No, it is a case of a crappy engineering. The point of the antenna design, as marketed, was to increase reception dramatically, not be the same as current designs.

A simple, low-cost solution would have been to apply a thin, transparent layer of some kind of insulating material over the antenna. Then it would look practically identical to what it is now, actually do what Apple says it does, in all use cases, and we would have evidence of competent engineers working at Apple.

Re:'Bout time

[voidptr]

But carrier availability is just another feature of the phone.

What he's saying is the iPhone 4 has a problem, but it's still less of a problem to him than design features of all the other phones on AT&T, and less of a problem than whatever inertia is keeping him on AT&T.

Every product on the planet has trade-offs from every other, nothing's perfect. And at this point, it's starting to look like there's a minor underlying defect in the antenna design of the iPhone 4, but in real world use it performs about statistically even with anything else on the market, and if you mostly stay in normal coverage areas, you'd never notice it.

Re:'Bout time

[Aboroth]

But they could have put a thin layer of a transparent insulator over the antenna, completely avoiding this problem, and keeping the looks. It seems retarded that they didn't.

Re:'Bout time

[hazydave]

The time to test the device is before the launch, not afterwards. This is a complete fail on Apple's part.

And I'm sure they did test, and they did find issues with performance, but Jobs simply wasn't willing to change the design. Apple is entirely about form over function -- the only reason anyone would pay 2x-3x for one of their PCs is just that... the come in pretty cases.

Re:'Bout time

[mysidia]

So much for Apple's product being exceptional, one of a kind, and not like the other smartphones, eh?....

Re:'Bout time

[Paradise Pete]

So you believe Jobs that only 0.55% of users had connection problems?

No, and that's not what he said. He said "Percent actually calling Apple? 0.55 percent." Big difference. He and anybody else in business knows that for every customer actually complaining there are others suffering in silence.

Re:'Bout time

[jimbomarq]

Honestly, I had no idea what AppleCare was until Steve Jobs mentioned it. I didn't know I was supposed to call that phone # to complain instead of ATT. I called AppleCare during his press conference to complain because reception IS an issue with my phone.

Of course, hearing him talk about fixing the proximity sensor made me think that maybe that's my real problem. I don't know if it's AT&T's network that's dropping my calls, or my face. Either way, there are problems.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

That story was also debunked and discredited

Well apparently that story was also debunked and discredited.

Re:'Bout time

[sglewis100]

The least they should do is offer people a phone with the problem fixed or a full refund.

iPhone Return Policy. Yeah, if only they offered a refund. Oh... wait.

Re:'Bout time

[TooMuchToDo]

How would you classify the Nexus One as a dead phone or one you're stuck with? I'd much prefer a phone provided by Google that gets timely updates (Froyo) than an iPhone with reception problems that gets a rubber case fix.

Re:'Bout time

[dreamchaser]

He made it sound like no such thing. He stated the facts. There was a problem and Apple tried to ignore it hoping it would go away instead of doing the responsible thing and owning up to it.

Damn but you Apple apologists will go to great lengths to spin things. They make good products but they also make some huge blunders from time to time. Live with it, admit it, move on.

I'm undoing several moderations by posting in this thread but I just couldn't help myself. This is just too surrealistic, seeing otherwise intelligent people go into mental gymnastics rather than admit Apple fucked up.

Re:'Bout time

[asnelt]

(i don't want to hear the argument "what if someone needs to call 911 and only have their left hand available to hold the phone")

That is not an unlikely scenario. If your right hand or arm is cut off you will want to call 911 and all that is left is your left hand...

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

And we believe Steve Jobs on this issue why exactly?

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

i dont mean to discredit your whole reason of being, but bad cell phone covereage is the "norm" in AMERICA. thats also the place where a lot more people are having problems with the iPhone 4. thats also where the free bumpers are limited to.

Jobs said in the Q&A that the offer was only inside the USA.

i think the best explanation of the problem i have seen is from anandtech [http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/the-iphone-4-review/2] they "tricked" the phone into showing an actual numeric value for signal strength and did some comparison. yes all smart phones have issues with the human body interfering with signal, but other smart phones have roughly HALF the problem the iPhone is having. and the original bar layout left the ENTIRE spectrum within the "drop range" cause by signal attenuation from the user.

Anandtech did a 2nd review and found that the updated helped, but the phone still has the same drastic drop in signal. apple just changed the algorithm for showing bars so to the bar viewer it is less drastic. [http://www.anandtech.com/show/3821/iphone-4-redux-analyzing-apples-ios-41-signal-fix]

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

Where do you live? Obviously not in the USA

I've lived in South Africa, where using a cell is akin to a land line. Great call quality and coverage in urban areas. I've lived in Australia, where cell call quality and coverage was almost as good as SA. Friends and colleagues from Europe have similar experience.

I've been living in California for the last 3 years am appalled at the level of mediocrity that people tolerate when it comes to cell phones. Maybe it's because there is too much "healthy competition" so that no one service provider is prepared to build out a solid infrastructure. Whatever the reason call quality and coverage stink. Reminds of using VOIP on a 33k modem in the 90's. No wait, that was better.

Re:'Bout time

[DrgnDancer]

Yeah, Jobs' denial is wroth nothing, but neither is the original rumor. It's all "he said she said" in that regard. It's as likely to have happened as not to have, but basing any argument on either position would be building a house on quicksand.

Re:'Bout time

[squiggleslash]

The least they should do is offer people a phone with the problem fixed or a full refund.

They're offering a full refund. Next!

Re:'Bout time

[Buelldozer]

So? That's like asking George Bush if he was in the pocket of BigOil. You can't trust any answer you're given by the individual. Everything that Mr. Jobs says on this issue should be subject to a high level of scrutiny. Since you linked an article let me give you a few examples:

In this article Ol' Stevie Boy also says "We're an engineering-driven company, so we wanted to find the real problem.". Really? Apple is an "engineering-driven" company? That's laughable. Especially since he goes on to present his data with "Bars" as a unit of measurement for signal strength, those very same bars that Apple claims are bullshit and shouldn't be used as a real indicator of signal strength!

He goes on to say "We knew if you gripped the iPhone in a certain way, the bars would go down, just like every smartphone. It's a challenge to the industry and we're hoping to contribute to some solutions over the coming years.". Yes, but most smartphones aren't being held by their ANTENNA under normal usage scenarios. While not technically a lie it is certainly a massive obfuscation specifically intended to cover up a ridiculous design flaw.

A little farther down he says "Maybe we should have a wall of PR people to insulate us, but we don't.". This is more of a lie than Apple being an "engineer-driven company". Apple IS a marketing company and they ARE surrounded by a "wall of PR people."

This one makes me hoot with laughter.

"Q: Why the September 30th deadline for free cases?
A: Steve: It's so we can re-evaluate. We don't know what solutions may come up by then. Maybe Eminem will come out with a band-aid that goes over the corner and everyone will want that."

So he's hoping that some other fad will happen that solves the problem FOR THEM. It's his stated reason for stopping the giveway of bumpers by 9/30!

Here is another.

"Q: The New York Times says there might be a software fix. Is that true?
A: Steve: We just talked about how the iPhone 4 only drops 1 call per hundred more than the 3GS. Go talk to the Times, because they're just making this stuff up. Scott Forstall comes on-stage: It's patently false. We can continue to tune the way the baseband interacts with the network, and we do that all the time, but the Times' statement is untrue."

Poor Apple, everyone is making up LIES about their product! The Times is lying! Consumer Reports is lying! Ars Technica is lying! This should, rightly, remind of you of someone else...Baghdad Bob. Please stop the pity train Steve, I want off.

Oh, and in case there is any doubt about the bars thing here is the relevant part of the interview.

"Q: A couple of years ago you released an iPhone software update that improved reception. How does that relate?
A: Steve: We came to the realization about 8 years ago that we didn't want to get into a business unless we controlled the primary technology. And we did that with the iPod, and moved on to the iPhone, where he can frictionlessly distribute software updates because we control it. And now everybody's copying us. But to answer your question, the formula for calculating the bars has been off since the beginning, so I'm not sure I understand your question."

Here's more of the 'people are lying...and rude too!" attitude.

"Q: You've been communicating with customers a lot via email. How has that impacted how you're dealing with the issues?
A: Steve: I've always done that...my address it out there. But I get a lot of email and can't respond to all of them. People have started posting them on the web, which is a bit rude, but now they're even making them up. But I want to communicate with our customers."

So with all of that in mind please explain to me why I should BELIEVE Mr. Jobs when he says that the gizmodo article is "Bullshit". He claims everyone is a liar, that this is a prevalent problem among smartphones, that bars aren't a valid measurement of signal and then uses them as proof that other phones suffer this problem, claims that Apple is an engineering-driven company and that they don't have a "wall of PR".

I'd go on but if I did you'd probably have to throw me a life preserver so I didn't drown in Mr. Job's flood of bullshit.

Re:'Bout time

[neoform]

The product is not *defective* and more than a car that stalls while driving up a steep hill on an empty tank..

Anyone getting "furious" over this has problems (not iPhone related).

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

I hate how if I DO grab hold of the radio antenna, I get BETTER reception than when I release it. Dunno if its a fluke of the frequencies used or whatever, its just strange. Mild static on radio, hold antenna, no static.

Re:'Bout time

[vijayiyer]

You clearly haven't ever designed a consumer product. A "thin, transparent coating" on a device that is continuously abraded will be gone after a some months/years of use. People don't care about "advancements" or reception going down when it doesn't drop a call. They do care about coatings flaking off.

Re:'Bout time

[Utini420]

I take it by "time," you don't mean pre-release, do you?

Re:'Bout time

[phantomfive]

The only time I've heard anything of like that is after the 7/7/2005 attacks in London. Priority was given to pre-registered numbers (police, doctors etc. register their numbers). However, I only read that that was what happened, I didn't have any problem making calls myself.

It happened to me once when I was trying to make an international call on mother's day. It was pretty annoying.

Re:'Bout time

[vijayiyer]

This retarded idea keeps getting mentioned, but coatings suck. They always wear poorly.

Re:'Bout time

[LaRainette]

Wtf ?
If google fails to sell its Nexus One it's their problem.

it doesn't affect their customers, and they make no fault at all. Just bad business and marketing.
When Apple sells a faulty device it does affect their customers ! They fail to provide a working device!

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

And of course, Gizmodo is purely objective after NOT being invited to the launch of the phone, having a reporter arrested, etc.

Re:'Bout time

[vijayiyer]

No, it would look like shit. Coated stainless steel does not look "practically identical" to uncoated stainless, especially after a some abrasion and subsequent delamination.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

And at the end of the saga, they still try to weasel out of trouble with the old line "it wasn't just me, they are doing it too". I used to try that one on my mother when I got in trouble as a young boy. It didn't work for me then, so I don't see that it should work for Apple now.

Weasel out of what? This whole thing reminds me of a cartoon I once saw where a guy who wants to look into a second story window loops his finger through a belt loop and tugs up until he floats to the window. There is no problem here that is unique to the iPhone. There is only anti-Apple biased blogs creating a story for the main stream media to run with. Weasel out of a problem that doesn't exist outside of public perception? How does one do that?

How many dropped calls have been reported to you directly by unsatisfied iPhone users? My GF lives in an apartment that is the ultimate dead zone. No phone will work reliably there unless you are pressed up against her kitchen window when you make a call... until she bought an iPhone 4. Now it works sitting in her living room.

Re:'Bout time

[shadowrat]

So basically what you're saying is (or will become) semantically identical to "I don't believe it's even recommended to rely on emergency calls". It's a total bummer if you're right.

I agree, i am saying that. No part of the emergency system is foolproof. If you are in trouble, there are millions of things that can keep help from reaching you. We have acceptable tolerances of failure in ambulances, computer systems, humans etc. I imagine that the failure rate of all cellphones is higher than any of those things. I don't want to use Jobs' dropped call statistics verbatim because he's obviously using numbers that paint his product in a good light, but if they are close to the failure rate for other phones, then it sounds like it's not an especially dangerous device.

No cell phone is being marketed (that i'm aware of) as the best phone to have in an emergency. There's certainly a call (ha! pun not intended) for it. In the future we undoubtedly will see the eradication of land lines. However, right now cell phones are still considered something of a luxury item. We are indeed on the cusp of them becoming essential. Many of us feel its essential for our careers, etc, but it's not expected yet that responsible citizens have a cell phone.

i confess to owning an iphone4. maybe that colors my opinion. I've been happy with it, but i'm trying to be objective about the issue. I just don't see this issue being that big a deal. To claim otherwise is to buy into the idea that you NEED an iphone (or really any cellphone)

Re:'Bout time

[GreyWolf3000]

Yes, it's clearly a mistake. But it's not likely the cause of an engineer "forgetting" that our hands are conductors. You missed my point completely.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

so somehow you think that everyone with a phone could actually recognize this problem? that's quite the oversight, only people with experience testing or very logical oriented minds would notice this type of thing... trust me i deal with lots of systems and our database people don't understand half the bugs i send to them... needless to say those don't get solved either and shockingly... they don't tell anyone (even though it corrupts our data daily and can corrupt any piece of data thus it's like compound interest... essentially 3 things go missing/get overwritten on day1, and that happens for years... then you have a large portion of your information wrong... they don't think its an issue, great)

Re:'Bout time

[squiggleslash]

Count yourself lucky. I had Sprint PCS service from 1999-2002. There were certain times of day where you'd get cut off for just walking past a tree.

But yeah, for the most part the networks are more reliable these days. It's been a very long time since I got cut off for any reason other than a serious network glitch, or being on the inside of a large building with large amounts of metal in an area that already has a weak signal (like, alas, my local supermarket.)

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, he probably didn't. I hate Apple, but I hate the sensationalist tech press more. Those emails were falsified just to get more page views.

Re:'Bout time

[Aboroth]

I am not in materials science, and I don't know what they tried, and I doubt you do either.

Assuming you are right and they can't make the antenna greatly superior to other antennas, as they initially claimed, while keeping the looks as good as they want, they should have owned up to it, and also not raised everyone's expectations in the first place.

Re:'Bout time

[LaRainette]

NO.
0.55% of the customers reported the problem BY PHONE.

Given they are iPhone users it's really no surprised : they're not very used to make calls.

Re:'Bout time

[Jay L]

A simple, low-cost solution would have been to apply a thin, transparent layer of some kind of insulating material

From the liveblog, it sounds like they think problem is NOT simple conduction; it's capacitive coupling, and using a case works not because it's insulating but because it's thick. It's not "the black line isn't insulated" (or at least it doesn't sound that way, though I wish they'd addressed it directly). Jobs does say "Every phone has a weak spot, but like a dummy, we put a big black stripe across ours". If it weren't for that stripe, do you think iPhone owners would have narrowed down the spot in less than a month?

I'm just guessing, though, and it would have been nice to see the conduction vs capacitance issue addressed in the Q&A.

Re:'Bout time

[Galestar]

Ya, and gizmodo probably has a score to settle with Apple after good ol' Steve had the Police ramsack the Editor's home -- AFTER he had returned the phone. Top that off with the fact that they are tech press, which just wants more page views and doesn't care about the truth, and you've got yourself a made-up email.

Re:'Bout time

[squiggleslash]

We focus on Apple when Apple's phones don't work because Apple and its fans pretend that their devices are near perfect, "just works", items when they're clearly not.

Android has never been promoted as a "perfect" user experience. It's Windows 1.0 to iPhone's MacOS System 4 - slightly unreliable, butt-ugly, and with glaring UI issues, yet faster, infinitely more powerful, and more open than the latter.

When "openness" issues come up with Android, like yesterday's (turns out to be bogus) story about the Droid X's bootloader, people do indeed start screaming just as loudly as when iOS has a major functionality issue. And they get angry. And it all gets ugly. Blame the stereotypical smug Apple owners ;-)

Re:'Bout time

[Savage-Rabbit]

What if Microsoft had pulled a stunt like this?

Dude, If I had a buck for every time Microsoft _HAS_ pulled something like this I'd have a very tidy sum of money. Apply the same to the fortune 500 list and I'd be $tinking rich.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

Hate myself already but I have the urge to post my dumbest comment ever (so far, I know I can make worse):
Jobs denial was completely unexpected... not.
Hopefully Gosh almighty will forgive me for that.

Now, any engineer with a passing knowledge of RF transmission would know that allowing the antenna come in contact with a conductor (i.e. meatbag, I mean, user) would be less than ideal. It's really hard to believe no-one was concerned with the implications of antenna exposure.

Re:'Bout time

[hazydave]

Yes... Apple certainly brought in as many other manufacturer's phones as they could get their hands on, and found a couple that, when held just so, perform poorly too. Don't think for a nanosecond that the phone they're using as counterexamples are typical, randomly selected models. They found others with problems.... and far as I can tell, much more difficult to demonstrate problems.

Who on their right mind would make a phone designed with an antenna that you're going to directly touch in normal use? Yes, the answer is "no one". Most decent cellphones, like my Motorola Droid, employ diversity antennas... two independent antennas in different parts of the phone, just like the dual antennas on many 802.11g routers and laptops. The device selects the antenna that's delivering the best signal, and in a phone, keeps a strong signal even if some fingers cover one of the antennas.

Re:'Bout time

[commodore64_love]

C'mon guys. As I'm sure you're aware I'm no fan of Apple's short 3-4 year OS turnover, or its locking down of systems, or its overpriced $1000 hardware, or the fact my G4 is now obsolete (can't run anything newer than OS 10.4, or Safari 5, or the latest iTunes).....

Um, what was my point? Oh yeah.... they are doing the right thing. Did they drag their feet? Yes but so do most corporations. Look at Toyota: They've had engine problems since the 2000 which cost customers $5000 to replace blown-out engines after only 10-30,000 and they didn't finally acknowledge the problem until 2006 (under pressure from the US DOJ).

Apple solved this problem in just three weeks time, by giving away bumpers to protect the antenna from being shorted by the human hand. Bravo for them.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

If Jobs said it, then it must be true!

He wouldn't be biased or anything.

Re:'Bout time

[squiggleslash]

The first phones I owned with an external antenna had it such that you would pull it out when you were using the phone, and slide it back in when you put the phone in your pocket. Well, with the exception of my Nokia 9000, where you'd fold it over for some reason.

This was followed by a series of phones with "stub" antennas, antennas that were inside a wide piece of plastic sticking out of the top of the phone that protruded slightly less than an inch. Funnily enough, these are the phones I recall having the best reception.

I think external antennas are a great idea, and they shouldn't be discarded on aesthetic grounds.

Re:'Bout time

[Low Ranked Craig]

True, to a point. It's also true that the FCC has a lot of rules about antenna placement in regards to peoples heads, and power issues. I've used the iPhone 4, and when not detuning the antenna due to a bad grip I found the signal strength and call quality to be excellent. Having said that I'll be waiting until Apple silently slipstreams a new version of the iPhone 4 into production before I buy one. All they need to do is put a 2 to 3 mil clear coat on the stainless antenna to solve the bridging issue.

All RF devices with antennas can be adversely affected by environment and one of the worst things for reception is a big bag of contaminated water. Having said that, the iPhone 4 is the only cell phone that I am aware of with an external antenna that can be detuned by bridging the antennas. THe Nexus one can, for example, be made to lose up to 17 dB of signal with the "death grip". The iPhone 4 can lose up to 24 dB with the same grip. This is due to the added degradation by detuning the antenna...

The reality is that a good signal is anything between about -107 and -51 dB, and most phones (iPhone 4 included) work fine down to about -113 dB, below which the call is dropped. Generally speaking, if you are anywhere over -89 dB you won't drop a call with the death grip all other things being equal. If you are less than -89 then you can grip your way to a dropped call.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

So the solution they have come up with is to spend 22 days "working their butts of" looking for ways to make some other smartphones display a similar kind of behaviour in order to be able to change the sentence "the Iphone 4 has a problem" into the sentence "Smartphones have a problem".
Well, good that's all solved then.

Re:'Bout time

[GIL_Dude]

Dropped calls really depend on a lot of factors. It sounds like you've been lucky and have great coverage. I live on the edge of good coverage and have lost dozens of calls along a main road right between large single family neighborhoods. I used to have ATT (I have Verizon now and their signal is better at my specific location) and while on ATT in my home office I would often lose a call just moving my head. I work from home one day a week so the cell phone is important as I get a lot of conference calls. I finally came to the conclusion that sitting the phone on the desk and not touching it and using a bluetooth headset was the way to go. Never dropped a call that way. This was almost a year ago though as I have been on Verizon since the Motorola Droid came out in November of 2009. ATT and my specific model of phone (old winmo phone - not iPhone) may not have that same problem today. Historically it certainly HAS happened to a lot of folks though. Lost calls for many of us are just part of using a mobile phone.

Re:'Bout time

[Quirkz]

Have you ever touched a TV antenna? What did that do to the signal?

In my case it generally made the picture clearer as I tried to position the antenna. Then I'd let go to sit down, and the picture would go all wonky again because the reception properties had changed. Can't tell you how many episodes of the Simpsons I watched while standing in front of the TV, because that was the only way I could get a picture on my old TV way out at the edge of town.

Re:'Bout time

[Bing Tsher E]

You've said that several times now in the thread.

Well, it looks nice. Is there a lanyard ring on the iPhone somewhere? Maybe you can hang it on your Christmas Tree. It shines so.

Re:'Bout time

[shadowrat]

I didn't mean to come across as an apologist. The antenna issue is a blunder. Its a legitimate fault that anyone buying an iphone4 should consider along with the walled garden and drm and at&t. I just don't think we all deserve an apology from steve jobs for trying to sell us his product. He's a salesperson. The car dealer tells me their car is the best as well.

Re:'Bout time

[JoeF]

This thing's only been out for a month!! at least give them some time to do their own testing, which they did!

In good companies, testing is done BEFORE a product is released...

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

Ignoring of course the fact that everyone and their dog knows that if you grab a TV or radio antenna, it kills the signal. How did they think that it wouldn't affect THIS antenna?

Re:'Bout time

[hazydave]

Right.. being able to actually touch the antenna is the first problem.. you fingers in direct contact change the impedance of the antenna... same mechanism used to work the capacitive touchscreen. Antennas aren't made randomly, they're designed with a very specific impedance, usually 50 ohms in modern RF devices. Changing the impedance of the antenna causes an impedance mismatch between the radio chip and the antenna, causing more of the RF energy to reflect back to the radio chip (or power amplifier) on transmit. This doesn't just screw up your signal, it causes more of that energy to remain in the phone.

Second problem was locating these external antennas so close to one another that one finger can bridge them. Really dumb idea there, and easily avoided... if only they weren't going for this particular "form over function" design decision.

And finally, diversity or MIMO antennas. Very modern RF devices have multiple receivers which operate in parallel from multiple antennas. Block one, and the other one is very likely still clear. Older technologies support diversity antennas... any RF engineer can add diversity to a system, it's not a necessary feature of the radio chip. All you need is an RSSI sensor (eg, you can read signal strength), an RF switch and two antennas. Software switches between antennas, selecting the stronger of the two for regular use. Better smartphones have this kind of design, but apparently, with Apple's obsession with being thin, they had to leave this out.

That's why with better phones, you actually have to cup the phone in your hand to kill the reception. Just holding it doesn't hurt anything, even with an unlikely grip, because you're only going to block one antenna at a time.

Check out Apple's own demonstrations of these. You can clobber the iPhone's reception with a single fingertip. On some of their "see, the competition has this problem too" examples, they're close to covering the phone with the hand. And these were hand-picked examples... the worst of the competition.

Re:'Bout time

[aardwolf64]

But Obama is blaming it on policies put in place by Bush.

If Steve jobs was Obama, it would have taken him 3 months to figure out that putting a (bumper) cap on it would stop the (signal) leak.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, it's completely impossible for Apple to tell the truth, its obviously a conspiracy.

Grow up.

Re:'Bout time

[Bryansix]

I applaud Apple for giving away a fix. However it wouldn't be a problem in the first place if the signal was not so weak in so many areas. Why is the Signal weak? Because AT&T sucks ass as a carrier. We all know they have the worst reception and by far the worst customer service. Verizon has yet to drop a single call of mine and I called Sprint and they got on the line in 2 minutes to solve my problem. I once called AT&T and sat on the line for TWO FUCKING HOURS only to be told THERE WAS NOTHING THEY COULD DO TO HELP ME.

I will not buy an iPhone until another carrier gets to use it. I blame Apple for this idiotic exclusivity contract and right now it it biting them back in the ass.

Re:'Bout time

[thoromyr]

moderators: modding this troll doesn't make it not true. I know, it is popular to mod down anything that goes against group think, but you might consider making an exception once in a while.

Re:'Bout time

[Bing Tsher E]

Who on their right mind would make a phone designed with an antenna that you're going to directly touch in normal use?

A company driven by it's Marketing Division, not one driven by it's Engineering Division.

I know. I've worked in both types of companies.

Re:'Bout time

[crossword.bob]

Have you tested the clear coat? As I posted elsewhere, I am not convinced it'd achieve the necessary impredance at radio frequencies. There may be such a product with low enough dielectric constant, but I don't know of one.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

I've never had a dropped call while standing still.

Lucky you. I routinely have dropped calls just sitting in my office, where I am right now, even when it shows 5 bars. I have a 3G.

I refute your anecdotal reality and replace it with my own!

Re:'Bout time

[JoeF]

Actually, what I've now read on Apple users forums even they are furious. They expected a real fix and they get what, a rubber band you put around the phone? That looks so slick and awesome.

Oh look, it's a Snuggie...

Re:'Bout time

[Znork]

There's 5,200 of iPhone 4

You're using google wrong. If you've got spaces you have to quote it, which gives about 1750 hits on "iphone 4". Otherwise you get pages with iphone and 4 on them, not necessarily in that order or in any proximity.

Re:'Bout time

[Bing Tsher E]

They did plenty of hard marketing and artistic testing and research

It's called 'fabulous Industrial Design.' Though I probably should try to work a few more adjectives in there.

Okay. How about 'incredibly fabulous Industrial Design'? Will that one sail?

Er, what were we selling again??

Re:'Bout time

[Bing Tsher E]

You're right, in that customers of other cellphones generally just use their phone and take it for granted that it will work.

There isn't the 'whoop' and 'whee' and 'golly gee-whiz' that the Apple customer base lugs along like Linus (VanPelt) with his blanket.

The problem for Apple is that their fanbase has now bought the 2 million iPhone 4's that they could count on selling. With the public perception of the thing stinking up badly, they're going to be stuck with just that crowd as their customer base. And that's an albatross around their neck, just as the old Mac Zealot crowd became eventually.

Re:'Bout time

[butterflysrage]

and dropping all your calls with a swanky looking phone is a-ok?

Even with apple, function does have to come before form.

Re:'Bout time

[hazydave]

Well, in fairness, Apple has spend years training their users to accept horrible cell phone performance. So of course they only had a few complaints. Most of the huge volume of iPhone 4 sales were to existing Apple iPhone customers. And in particular, the most iPhonie of them all... many of these people are paying extra to upgrade early. They are in the reality distortion field, they drink the Kool-Aid, and when Apple says "2-bars are the new 5-bars", they accept this without question.

Every iPhone has had reception problems, call dropping problems, etc. The simple fact that, given that history, this had become such a big issue that Apple had to hold today's conference is evidence that they really outdid their crappy reception, this time around. Just regular poor reception on an iPhone is hardly news... I've lent my Droid to numerous iPhone users who, from time to time, actually had to make calls and just couldn't get a signal (yes, AT&T is also sharing the blame, and at least in my area, they're a strong #2 in coverage quality... the BlackBerry people don't seen to have any issues).

Re:'Bout time

[jeremyp]

Whoever is responsible for this should be fired, as should anyone who should have caught the mistake of the incompetent engineer(s), and their jobs should be given to competent people.
 

And your evidence that they weren't is.....?

There's no way Steve Jobs is going to tell you whether the people responsible for the fuck up have been fired or not, especially with a class action law suit hanging over him.

Re:'Bout time

[qortra]

I don't have enough data to say whether the iPhone4 is within an acceptable tolerance of reliability (given its possible use as an emergency phone). However, I am convinced that there is a threshold at which an apology is quite appropriate.

However, right now cell phones are still considered something of a luxury item.

Smartphones are certainly a luxury item. However, IIRC, cell-phone penetration worldwide is around 50%, almost as high as the percentage of people who have access to running water. That makes it pretty close to essential in my estimation.

I've been happy with it, but i'm trying to be objective about the issue. I just don't see this issue being that big a deal.

Normally, that's all that would matter. If the customer is happy, everybody's happy. However, I am convinced that a lot of Apple customers have a hard time seeing past the beauty of their products down to the inner flaws. Anyway, enjoy your bumper.

Re:'Bout time

[Bing Tsher E]

Why would Obama care? There isn't a trade union member in sight at Apple.

Re:'Bout time

[thestudio_bob]

Sure it matters. It matters in your scenario as well.

My post wasn't intended to be "flame-bait". What I was trying to determine if Haffner actually had an iPhone or if he was just trolling. I have an iPhone 4. I recently upgraded from a 3G model. My experience has been quite different. Where as my old phone would succumb to "dead-spots" through out my office, the new iPhone does not. It works and it works a hell of a lot better than before.

I'm not saying people are having problems, I'm sure there are. But in my case, I'm not. You can take that with a grain of salt, but whatever. Whenever I read about all these people having all these "major" problems, I'm kind of suspicious.

Do you own an iPhone?

Re:'Bout time

[crossword.bob]

Too much nonsense here to be worth replying to it all, but one sentence jumped out at me while scrolling past: "It's his stated reason for stopping the giveaway of bumpers by 9/30."

You claim people aren't lying about him, while lying right there. He at no time said they were stopping the giveaway by 9/30. He said that they would give them away until that date, at which point they'd re-evaluate. To twist that into your version shows beyond doubt that you are incapable of passing objective comment. If you had any credibility it wenr up in smoke right there.

Re:'Bout time

[BarryJacobsen]

My apologies, I had used iPhone.4 which I thought equated to "iPhone 4" but it apparently doesn't.

Re:'Bout time

[BSDimwit]

Wrong, Jobs said that the free bumpers were available to anyone anywhere who bought and iPhone4, it is NOT limited to the USA.

Re:'Bout time

[hazydave]

But you have to love the irony of their fix... they made a bad-performing phone even worse in their endless quest to make the world's thinnest smartphone (damn that Google!). They chose form over function as they did every since the original iPhone. And so to fix it... you put on a case. Which now makes it a fairly fat smartphone, compared to most modern models that work just dandy without a case. Hell, my Droid even squeezes a keyboard into that extra 1mm it has over the 3GS.

But really, did ANYONE think Apple would actually apologize? This is the most ego-driven company on the planet... even Bill Gates in his prime wasn't this good at it. Apple's first response is how they really felt -- if the iPhone isn't working right, there's something wrong with YOU, not it. So now there's also something wrong with the cellular industry. Though you'll notice Jobs didn't chose any of the better cellphones to compare... he had his people find a few phones that could, under very controlled hand-holding, also behave badly. But here's the thing... did any one of them drop to 1 bar with just a single finger on it, as the iPhone 4 can? I thought not...

Re:'Bout time

[Bing Tsher E]

My smartphone is so fash! It used to be big and ugly, and it wouldn't sit on my desk prominently when co-workers came to my office to visit. So I had it sealed in a big block of lucite. I'm so glad it didn't have an ugly antenna for the week when I (tried) to use it as an actual cellphone. Now, when I want to make a call, I just sneak into the restroom and use my TracPhone.

Re:'Bout time

[crossword.bob]

More likely that it was because THIN TRANSPARENT COATING DOESN'T HELP!!!

Sellotape doesn't help. Duct tape doesn't help. Insulating tape helps a little, but not enough to bother with. Impedance != resistance, and impedance varies inversely with frequency.

Apologies for shouting, but it's time this old wives' tale went to bed.

Re:'Bout time

[ratboy666]

It's not the carrier. I have a blackberry 9000 and my wife has an iPhone 3g. Same carrier. If we are in a marginal signal situation (car garage, for example), I lend her my phone to make calls with. And, it's not just us.

The bb is just a better phone.

Re:'Bout time

[Bing Tsher E]

- Hear about this problem and decide not to buy an iPhone 4 (if they don't have one already)

These are the people Apple is most worried over.

And it's not a small number of people. When the antenna design is so glaringly, obviously, fundamentally** flawed as is the case here (you should never have to be in direct electrical contact with the antenna element to use a product without some aftermarket rubber 'boot' in place) people just aren't gonna buy the thing. At this point in the product rollout they've basically sold to the fanboy market. Joe Regular is going to hold off for awhile, now.

(**It's so fun overusing adjectives. Aren't these Apple threads glorious for that?)

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

Trouble with your iPhone not working? Connection bar not long enough?

iCondom!

Wrap our iCondom around our iPhone (seriously, it's ours. You're just renting it.) and see an immediate improvement in your communcational life!

Re:'Bout time

[raynet]

If you cover the external antenna with thin layer of non-antenna material, would it still technically be external antenna?

Re:'Bout time

[Bing Tsher E]

What will you do for encore?

It doesn't matter what we do. It matters what the public does.

Is it too late to short Apple stock?

Re:'Bout time

[geekoid]

or people feel they are stuck because of there contract.

Re:'Bout time

[hazydave]

Well... Job apologized for users being unhappy. Never once did he actually cop to the iPhone 4 issue being an unusual problem.. in fact, they spent more time and energy finding other phones to blame than actually dealing with the problem.

Re:'Bout time

[Bing Tsher E]

Any RF product with an antenna that must come into contact with the user's skin to be used without aftermarket doo-dads is defective by design.

But Steve liked the design. I remember him carrying on about it at the keynote. I doubt if any other cellphone vendors will be laying a turkey of this sort anytime soon now.

Re:'Bout time

[RoFLKOPTr]

Do you own an iPhone?

No, I do not. But still it is irrelevant. I'm not complaining about all the problems I'm having with my iPhone, because I don't have one. There is abundant proof that the iPhone 4 has an actual physical hardware problem with its antenna, and Haffner was commenting on how Apple refuses to own up to it and instead pretends that they're making such a nice move for their customers by giving them cases.

I don't think you need to own an iPhone in order to have a license to comment on Apple's stupid PR moves. This exact kind of thing may very well be the reason WHY some people (such as myself) choose not to own Apple products.

Re:'Bout time

[Wyatt Earp]

Bull.

The crap Zagg makes Invisible Shield out of doesn't wear poorly. Hell I've got an original iPod Nano I use every day with a Zagg coating and it's not worn poorly yet.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

And that engineer is fired now anyway...

Yeah, think about that for a second, while not wearing those apple love-goggles.

Re:'Bout time

[shadowrat]

thanks! i am admittedly a pushover. offer me a free bumper and all is forgiven :)

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

But this is the real problem that Apple is facing and are signs of things to come. The Nexus One had some problems? Well it's one of many phones that all run the Android operating system. The Eris isn't that great? That's okay, a few months later there is something out newer and better. Even my old Droid is going to be discontinued soon, not because there are any problems with it, but because it's being replaced by the Droid X and the Droid 2. With so many manufacturers pumping out Droid smartphones, from Samsung to HTC to Motorola, there are new droids coming out every few months, each one claiming faster processor speed and RAM

And the Droid operating system keeps on getting better and better. From 2.0.1 to 2.1 there was a performance boost, but that's not close to the performance boost that's being reported from 2.1 to 2.2. A two to three times performance boost is being reported by people who have gotten their hands on 2.2. That's impressive for an already stable operating system.

Apple is entering a very different market, for the first time there are legitimate challengers. The struggle that Apple is going to have is they produce a new phone every year or so, while Droid phones come out every few months. In the next few years it will become difficult for Apple to keep up, especially if they remain locked into a contract with AT&T which already limits their market.

Already Apple has had to play catchup. Before the Iphone 4 my Droid had significantly higher resolution then Iphones and had the abillity to multitask.

There are already rumors of a 2 ghz processor phone being released by Motorola next year.

Re:'Bout time

[raynet]

See the Anandtech article which has dBm measurements between iPhone 4 / 3GS and some non-Apple smartphone.

Re:'Bout time

[poetmatt]

Maybe you are a bit shortsighted, or fail to understand economics, but, NEWSFLASH: the phone is going to be sold for more than two months from now.

This also could have been a nonstarter if apple had owned up earlier.

Re:'Bout time

[pha7boy]

you sir have no clue what you are talking about, do you? iPhone4 drops calls at a rate of (iphone3GS+1)/100 iPhone 3GS is also an Apple product Apple and ATT are, now, offering a 30 days full refund. If you bought it somewhere else (say... Best Buy) - good luck with that. Every phone does lose signal... to some extend. The iPhone4 is "Defective by Design" - meaning it makes the problem that much larger by placing the antena on the outside. so... I take it you're one of those "i don't care" people, huh? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7yD-0pqZg&feature=player_embedded

Re:'Bout time

[cob666]

Shouldn't Apple have done the testing BEFORE they released it?

Re:'Bout time

[thestudio_bob]

There is abundant proof...

There is a bunch of blog post from people that we can't really be sure own an iPhone complaining about the issue which gets picked up by other blogs because they know anything about Apple gets hits and of course we have that Consumer Reports article saying that the iPhone is the worst thing since MS Bob, but yet still rank it #1 in smartphones proof...

Glad to see that you've turned into the type of person you hate.

Re:'Bout time

[spire3661]

Hate to link , but in researching some other past apologies, i found Kotaku had a nice list made up. http://kotaku.com/5578254/apple-engineers-totally-wrong-nintendo-misjudged-excitement-and-other-great-corporate-excuses

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

Perception is everything. But persistent sales is better. MS and Apple have the latter working regardless of the "Internet community's concern".

Re:'Bout time

[Corbets]

Jobs' has motive for saying the story is bullshit (especially considering there is a court case that has been granted class-action status). If he did not deny the story, it wil be used against Apple in the case. Moreover, he has a credibility issue right now.

Gizmodo is a third party, and they have been pretty consistent in reporting on both points of view on this issue.

Just sayin'

That may be, but as mentioned in the GP, Gizmodo is simply citing a Bloomberg article, which is what Jobs said was bullshit. And news organizations have an interest in writing sensational news.

Just sayin'.

Re:'Bout time

[DA_MAN_DA_MYTH]

You suggest that Apple spent a month testing other phones, they couldn't perhaps have tested this in tandem while working to fix their own phone? They showed the testing process. Basically what they admitted was they gave you an X to cover up the antennae, people did it and therefore had something to complain about.

Heaven forbid one benchmarks their product against someone else's. I think the free case is a nice option. Also the 30 days to return your iphone is another nice option.

I think the problem really is... People like to bitch. That, and fixing problems is as easy as flipping a few switches.

Re:'Bout time

[Low Ranked Craig]

No, but there are 2 issues at play here. One is the signal strength due to forcing the signal through a bunch of meat and the other is the "shorting" of the antenna. There is no fix the for first issue, and that is the one responsible for most of the loss. For the second issue, I've not tested it but I've read in numerous places that electrical tape does in fact fix the problem, and electrical tape is typically 2 to 3 mils thick. Consumer reports pointed out that duct tape also fixed the problem and common commercial duct tape is about 8 mils...

Re:'Bout time

[BitZtream]

Considering what absolutely crappy devices BlackBerry sells, I hardly doubt anyone would notice. They'll be spending too much time trying to get anything accomplished rather than actually using the thing as a phone.

BBs are some of the biggest pieces of shit on the market, the only reason they still exist is because idiots in suites like them and don't realize that just about any other smart phone is light years better across the board.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, this reminds me of the early months of the X-Box 360, when Microsoft was claiming that failure rates were well below 2.5%. They claimed there were only so many complaints because it was so successful, and most X-Box 360 owners were happy with it, etc... In fact, the statements were almost identical if you swap the product and company names.

Now, looking back, we know that the early 360s had a higher than 50% failure rate. The number of complaints and warranty claims were much higher than Microsoft originally admitted. It came out that Microsoft was aware of the flaws that caused it, but shipped anyways to avoid costs/delays. They extended the warranty, and fixed the design problems eventually.

My predictions for the iphone 4? Within a few years we will learn that this problem is causing a significant problem for at least 10% of iphone4 users. Customer satisfaction with the phone was far lower than Apple is reporting. Apple engineers knew of the reception problems, but they decided to ship anyways. Apple might offer some kind of warranty extension, but between the free bumper and the short lifespan of phones anyways I doubt it.

Re:'Bout time

[BitZtream]

From a statistical point of view, they have done nothing wrong.

Their device technically performs better than just about any alternative phone you throw at it.

Nothing about its problem is unique and it is as documented actually LESS of a problem NOW than with the previous 3 generations of the device.

Its just media sensationalism and ignorance by people like yourselves.

If they admit 'they did something wrong', pretty much every cell phone manufacture ever would have to do the same thing since the iPhone 4s TESTED performance is rather high, regardless of what you see written by journalists who read on some blog who needed page hits to sell adds to make the credit card payment for the iPhone 4 he bought and couldn't afford.

Theres no apology because there isn't a problem outside of the media and a few idiots minds.

Show me a phone that doesn't do the same thing in one form or another that compares to the iPhone in price and size. You can't, its simply the laws of physics at work.

Re:'Bout time

[PopeRatzo]

No, and that's not what he said. He said "Percent actually calling Apple? 0.55 percent."

Again, all we have to go on is his word, and barring an inside leak, that's all we'll ever have to go on.

Is "calling Apple" the only way an iPhone 4 can be returned? I honestly don't know. I use an iPod Touch and an old-fashioned cell phone for the few calls I have to make or take when on the go.

Is it possible that more iPhone users are willing to "suffer in silence" as you put it than users of other brands?

Re:'Bout time

[UnknowingFool]

No, this court case has not been granted class action status. The court case that has been granted class-action has to do with AT&T and Apple exclusivity. Considering that the suit is less than 30 days old, it would be surprising that it was granted class-action status.

Re:'Bout time

[gmb61]

But only .5% (not 5 percent, half a percent) of users have even reported the problem.

This is such a misleading statistic, because it assumes that every single person who experiences the problem is going to immediately call Apple to complain, and that is simply not true. I can make the problem happen for me by using the grip of death, but I never called Apple to complain. And I'm sure there are many, many more people like me.

I think a much more telling statistic would be, out of the sum total of calls received regarding the iPhone 4, what percentage of those calls were about the antenna problem?

Re:'Bout time

[LucidBeast]

Well they are exceptional everyone else is manufacturing crap.

11:04AM Q: Is there a hardware redesign in this generation that could fix this problem? A: You can go on the web and look at pictures of Nokia phones that ship with stickers on the back that say "don't touch here" -- you can go on YouTube and see these. We should you three phones today, all good phones. So right now the state of the art of the entire industry is that no one has solved this problem. Would I like Apple to be first? Yes. Can we make it better right now? Maybe, we'll see.

Can anybody produce a link or is this slander? I couldn't find any stickers.

Re:'Bout time

[Mongoose Disciple]

You said they did not own up to a problem, that's false, they did.

I don't really consider admitting to a problem while attempting to make a case that all other phones have the same problem (which is true up to a point for some phones, but mostly is just misleading because it's not as nearly as severe an issue for other phones) to be owning up to the problem. At best, it's weaselly.

It's a lot like saying "I'm sorry you feel that way" rather than "I'm sorry for what I did." -- the first is technically an apology but isn't an expression of remorse.

Re:'Bout time

[RollingThunder]

That's one ADDITIONAL call in 100, compared to the 3GS.

As in, if the 3GS drops four, the Iphone4 drops five.

Re:'Bout time

[crossword.bob]

I've also read this, but I've also tested this and my mileage varied. Lots. I'm not convinced CR did test tape, I think they fell for the same mistake of thinking it obvious.

Re:'Bout time

[EastCoastSurfer]

You should be able to Google the EVO user manual and near the end there are a couple pages dedicated to where NOT to touch the phone to keep from interfering with the antenna.

The iPhone problem is nothing new and has been in all iPhones to date and non-iPhones I owned prior. Apple is a big name so people make a big deal out of everything they do. They get a lot of free press/hype when things are good and when things are bad it can quickly turn around.

I have an i4 and it is by far the best reception I've had out of an iPhone(1st gen, 3GS prior). I can grip it with both hands really hard and sometimes manage to lose a bar. I don't think it's a signal strength issue because even in a low signal area I still only lose a bar. Maybe I'm just not electric enough? I also live in a dry climate so who knows.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

they are a heavily biased against Apple

No, everybody else is heavily biased towards Apple.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

what if someone needs to call 911 and only have their left hand available to hold the phone?

Re:'Bout time

[LucidBeast]

I don't know about HTC EVO, but I've never seen a sticker "don't touch here" on a phone and I've gone through 30 or 40 different kinds, because of my work. I remember that old phones that had antennas sticking out had this sort of problems, but I can't remember having this kind of problem in last five or so years. I have to say that these guys stoop pretty low when claiming that this is a general problem. Sounds like spin to me.

Re:'Bout time

[AndOne]

Gizmodo also has an axe to grind after the stolen prototype fiasco. So it's not really a NEUTRAL third party.

Re:'Bout time

[EastCoastSurfer]

Apple has rabid fans and just as rabid detractors. BB users don't make a stink because even if they did no one would care. It certainly wouldn't be on CNN or CNBC or any other big new organizations day after day.

Just for the record I have an i4 and don't have any problems with. It's the best iPhone reception wise that I have owned. In a weak signal area I can try and make it lose 1 bar. I haven't naturally held any of my iPhones in a way that would cover that spot so if I had never seen the problem on the internet I like would have never noticed it.

It will be interesting to see just how many iPhones get returned. I think those numbers will tell the real truth about how many users are affected.

Re:'Bout time

[EastCoastSurfer]

So use the included head set ;)

I hate holding any phone to my ear to talk. For some reason it just annoys me, and after about 3 minutes I'm telling the other person I have to go or scrambling for my head set. A dropped call would be a non-rude way to get off the phone when I can't get to my headset :)

Re:'Bout time

[cloakedpegasus]

Lucky you. You must have not had the pleasure of having an Iphone on the ATT network.

Re:'Bout time

[Trillan]

You always need to consider the source. What's more likely: Gizmodo posted an article to make Apple look bad, or Steve Jobs lied in a way that will be demonstrated shortly?

Hint.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, according to this article http://www.theusdaily.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=1142010&type=Business , someone named Goodglick and McCaffrey sued Apple for this issue, we should do the same :)

Re:'Bout time

[toooskies]

Newsflash: If Apple already knew there was a problem on release day like everyone who reads the internet, who exactly is going to call them and tell them what they already know? Especially when it was well-known that Apple wasn't doing anything to accomodate the problem.

Half a percent means that those people knew

Re:'Bout time

[Trillan]

Aw man. It just kills me that someone rated this Interesting instead of Funny. Someone actually believe it.

Re:'Bout time

[Trillan]

Apple's always offered full refunds on iPhones. And look, they still do!

Re:'Bout time

[EastCoastSurfer]

I found it for you:

http://support.sprint.com/global/pdf/user_guides/htc/evo/htc_evo_ug.pdf

Page 169. No sticker, but in the manual.

From my personal anecdotal experience with my i4 all the websites claiming doom and gloom were the ones spinning to me. Ars did a pretty good test showing that the new phone can lose ~20db of signal when held a certain way. That's enough to lose 1-2 bars and if that's all you have then it's definitely a problem. The most I can get to happen is 1 bar and it generally then bounces back up.

Apple brought the issue to light that has been a problem since phones started moving their antennas internal to the phone. A friend with a BB just IMed me laughing that he can do the same thing on his phone because of the weak signal he has in his office building.

I think Apple did all they could here. There is no way they have time to engineer, test, and possibly get FCC approval for some new phone in such a short amount of time. If the bumper isn't enough for people then return it. My i4 works fine with my usage and is much better reception wise than my 3GS was. Not that the 3GS was a stellar performer, but in places where I would drop calls on the 3GS (I live near the mountains) the i4 hasn't dropped yet.

Re:'Bout time

[Mike Buddha]

The headers sure did look real. That's an awful lot of unecessary work to fake out the blogosphere. I call BS on the "fake email" theory.

Re:'Bout time

[Trillan]

Microsoft has pulled stuff like this. In fact, if I had a buck for every time, I'd be up to several hundred dollars by now. And if I'd invested that in Apple stock, I'd probably have a few thousand.

So Microsoft's giving refunds to all the Kin users who request one, for instance? What about all the Vista users, could they get a refund within 30 days of the initial purchase?

Re:'Bout time

[wisdom_brewing]

Apple - the new BP

Re:'Bout time

[StikyPad]

Lastly, just put a fucking antenna on the phone like every phone for 20 years has had, and these problems disappear entirely.

The reason antennas migrated to the interior wasn't (just) for aesthetic reasons, but because the advent of fractal antennas allowed an (electrically) simple antenna that could be tuned for multiple frequencies (multiband) in a compact package. This was basically the biggest revolution in antennas in 30+ years. It's the reason we have bluetooth and WiFi on USB sticks and in phones, as well as RFID tags. It doesn't hurt that they're also dirt cheap to manufacture.

Re:'Bout time

[Bing Tsher E]

I think what you meant to say was that you can't install RPGs on Blackberries. Not good ones, anyway. And there's a native FarmVille iPhone App. Blackberry? No, just a regular business-oriented smart phone.

Is there even a single fart app for blackberry, for petes sake?

Re:'Bout time

[valeo.de]

Even if they had, it would still be being discussed to death here...

Re:'Bout time

[HumanEmulator]

No, they said some people might have the problem that everyone's been blowing out of proportion. But only .5% (not 5 percent, half a percent) of users have even reported the problem.

No, they said 0.55 percent called AppleCare. That doesn't count people that called ATT, took their phone to a Genius Bar, or have the issue but were waiting to see what Apple would do based on internet reports that calling Apple or going to a Genius Bar resulted in nothing.

Most of the people foaming at the mouth about this don't even have iPhones, they just want to see Apple fail.

And there are plenty of people who aren't foaming at the mouth, but have a real problem and have been patiently waiting to see what Apple would do. My 3GS worked fine in areas where I can kill data connections by holding the phone in my left hand. Too bad I'm left-handed.

...the perception is that most people are having reception problems, which is simply not true. For most people the reception is better.

Except that according to Apple there is a higher rate of dropped calls. Slightly higher, but still higher. So "for most people" that would sound like slightly worse performance regardless of reception.

Because the media has created this perception, Apple is giving everyone free Bumpers.

According to Apple's Letter Regarding the iPhone 4, Apple is responsible for creating the perception by gaming the signal strength meter to make reception look good.

Re:'Bout time

[Bing Tsher E]

If we could see the internal expense account records, I would bet that two or three of those pointy-hairs went out on the first day of 'the crisis' and bought one of every other smartphone on the market. Then went back to the lab, and directed the guys actually working on the problem to 'check all of these out in the anechoic chamber.' They've probably spent more time cherrypicking the competition for Jobs' show and tell than they have on the iPhone.

Re:'Bout time

[zonker]

No, it's not he-said, she-said. It's the CEO saying something and a reporter saying something else.
A CEO is held to a higher account than a reporter. A CEO can be held accountable for stating a falsehood especially one that is publicly traded like Apple.
A reporter can state damn near whatever they want because it is protected speech.

Re:'Bout time

[3choTh1s]

The fault in the logic here is that them saying .5% of people reported the problem, people think that .5% of the people actually have the problem. This one is actually belongs to both Apple and media. I have an iPhone 4 and have the problem. I already live in a poor reception area and having a phone that can be slightly better than average or significantly worse than average reception kinda makes my head spin.

But I didn't report it! Why you say? Because it's already a big deal to the media who's been schlepping this story around for the last month. I didn't think I needed to report it. And everyone I know who has an iPhone talks about the news stories about the terrible reception, but again never report it. They figure if it's this big a news then Apple should be able to see it's more than just a few thousand people having the issue.

Again this is both sides' fault, but I guarantee the number of problem phones is a bit greater than .5%

Re:'Bout time

[Dahan]

Yes, but most smartphones aren't being held by their ANTENNA under normal usage scenarios.

They aren't? Where do you think the antenna is in most smartphones? See, for example, page 16 of the Nokia E71 user guide: "Your device may have internal and external antennas. Avoid touching the antenna area unnecessarily while the antenna is transmitting or receiving. Contact with antennas affects the communication quality and may cause a higher power level during operation and may reduce the battery life." Followed by a diagram showing both the top and the bottom of the phone as no-no zones. It'd be pretty awkward to attempt to hold the phone up to my ear while not covering those two areas.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

Gizmodo payback for being kick out of WWDC and the iphone 4 bar incident?

hmmmmm.....

Re:'Bout time

[MojoStan]

And according to a Business Insider story, the Wall Street Journal also has a story (with an anonymous source) that makes similar claims:

• "Apple engineers were aware of the risks associated with the new antenna design as early as a year ago, but Chief Executive Steve Jobs liked the design so much that Apple went ahead with its development, said another person familiar with the matter."

So I guess both Bloomberg and the WSJ have anonymous sources who are full of shit.

Re:'Bout time

[AmonTheMetalhead]

They should've noticed this earlier, like, before release

Re:'Bout time

[AmiMoJo]

Well Apple products are sold on the basis of being stylish lifestyle accessories. You can get better features for less money but it's not the same as owning an Apple. People buy them as much for the looks as anything.

Sticking a big ugly rubber case on it doesn't seem like much of a solution. I'd be wanting my money back, waiting for the iPhone 4.5 with fixed antenna. Of course by that point a lot of people will have traded in or sold their old phone putting them in a difficult position.

Re:'Bout time

[Low Ranked Craig]

The real problem is controlling for the detuning issue. Assuming that the iPhone did't have the detuning issue you would still lose 10dB to 15dB or a little more due to the bag of water issue, so it's hard to test in the real world. Regardless. I'm waiting a few months to see what happens. There are rumors swirling that replacement iPhones don't exhibit the issue, but I suspect that is due to iOS 4.01 reporting less bars overall and not a hardware fix...

Re:'Bout time

[icebike]

Hi Dan...

Furthermore, Apple does not admit the antenna is defective and does not intend to fix it.

Its not defective if you cover it with plastic like everybody else in the handset industry. ;-)

And thats exactly the "Solution" Apple has adopted with the bumpers. Bandaid over a Bad design.

But shouldn't phones get better with each release?

These external segmented antennas cause one ADDITIONAL call drop in every 100 calls vs the 3Gs iphone.

Apple is saying See: Only One ADDITIONAL drop per Hundred!

I'm saying: You STILL measure call drops over a Hundred calls?

Bad enough they admit their newer phone is worse than their old phone, but then to admit they are still seeing multiple call drops in 100 calls.

My Nexus One has a full call log and not one call drop. It was a replacement for a iPhone 3G which dropped a few calls per month. Same carrier, Same area. Zero drops since I left Apple.

Re:'Bout time

[icebike]

The tests were not LIVE, they were staged and taped.

Further, nobody ever demonstrated a call drop on any other phone by touching the phone with ONE FINGER while it was sitting on the desk.

Yet there are videos showing this exact thing with the iP4.

Re:'Bout time

[icebike]

Oh, and about that refund for 90 days.....

Good luck getting out of your ATT contract.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2366601,00.asp

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

Gizmodo is a third party, and they have been pretty consistent in reporting on both points of view on this issue.

Oh yeah, there's absolutely no bad blood between Apple and Gizmodo:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20003664-37.html

Gizmodo is completely trustworthy and unbiased.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe you should have read your own link? They do honor the 30 days return with no penalty:

"After purchasing an AT&T device and agreeing to a two-year contract, customers have 30 days in which to cancel their accounts without incurring an early termination fee, or return the iPhone 4 and switch to another AT&T handset."

Go beyond that and you can still get a full hardware refund, although you would probably have to make it an AT&T offered phone (Droid?) from 60-90 days

"We support [Apple's] decision to provide free cases to folks and to waive the usual re-stocking fee," he continued. "We're going to do the same."

Re:'Bout time

[Solandri]

I can think of a much simpler explanation why this wasn't caught in testing. Apple has an AT&T tower on site. So all iPhone 4s tested in Apple's labs would've had a strong signal to work with. Apple also gave phones to select personnel to field test, but were so paranoid about it being spotted in the field that they disguised it with (you guessed it) a rubber bumper to hide the distinctive metal antenna band. So it was impossible to hold the field test units in a way which shorted out the two antennas.

Re:'Bout time

[donny77]

No, it is a case of a crappy engineering. The point of the antenna design, as marketed, was to increase reception dramatically, not be the same as current designs.

A simple, low-cost solution would have been to apply a thin, transparent layer of some kind of insulating material over the antenna. Then it would look practically identical to what it is now, actually do what Apple says it does, in all use cases, and we would have evidence of competent engineers working at Apple.

Actually, we should all agree that it's excellent engineering. Like everyone is saying, any idiot knows touching an antenna affects signal, and yet I can touch my iPhone 4's antenna everywhere except a small 2mm section with very minimal effects. And that is in low signal areas, in moderate or strong signal areas I can even touch that 2mm and it still works. They truly did defy the laws of physics if we are to believe every "expert" on the 'Net complaining about this.

Which brings us to phase two. Again according to all the 'Net experts all we need is a THIN insulating material! Wow, Apple should hire us all to design the iPhone 5 at double the wages they paid the clowns that made this iPhone 4. I mean it's not like the amount of insulating material matters. The iPhone 4 attenuates a maximum of 24 dBms according to Anandtech. The same test showed the Nexus one Attenuating 17 dBms. Yes, 24 is worse than 17, but what effect does the "thin" insulator have? 1 dBm? 10 dBm's? 4 dBm's? If it had an insulator and attenuated 18 dBm's you would still be complaining.

My iPhone 4 has the BEST reception and BEST clarity I have EVER had on a cell phone. Yes, I conscientiously avoid touching the tip of the antenna. Law of economics, the opportunity cost of the best call quality is worth the opportunity cost of griping the phone with the palm of my hand.

Re:'Bout time

[donny77]

Actually, what I've now read on Apple users forums even they are furious. They expected a real fix and they get what, a rubber band you put around the phone? That looks so slick and awesome.

I don't quite get the logic here. People are complaining that a "case" isn't a solution since it "ruins" the look of the phone, which is apparently the only reason they bought it. Then they lambaste Apple for putting "form" over "function" when designing the damn thing to begin with! So Apple is not allowed to be vain in designing it, but you can be vain after you buy it?

Re:'Bout time

[icebike]

I did read my link. But thanks for pointing out what I presumed most readers would have discovered by themselves.

That apple gives you 90 days but ATT only gives you 30 means you are stuck with AT&T after returning you iPhone unless you do it RIGHT NOW. Tick Tock Tick Tock.

Stuck with a carrier you may have only accepted BECAUSE of the iPhone.

You could still get the 3GS for 99 bucks from AT&T to fulfill your contract with, but then you are stuck on a two year contract with last years phone.

And no "Droid(tm)" on At&T, although the Captivate is an excellent phone, and it will drop a lot less calls than any version of iPhone. Reviews I've read suggest the Captivate is great Android phone.

But not to make too much of it, I suspect most iP4 users will take the bumper and live with it.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

I've just heard one only company claiming that their stuff "just works". Perhaps, they shouldn't bring those marketing strategies when they clearly know that's not the case?

Re:'Bout time

[anorlunda]

True, but the questioner didn't mention the article. He asked if Jobs knew about the problem early in the design. Jobs didn't answer the question. Since Jobs' answer was evasive, shouldn't we assume that it's true?

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone work someplace where engineers are allowed to decide how to rectify high-profile issues? No?

Probably because such business go out of business very quickly.

Re:'Bout time

[LucidBeast]

PDF seems to take forever to load...

Anyway Steve mentioned Nokia not HTC by name. Would there be some patent issue. Maybe Apple tried to circumvent a design to avoid more patent disputes. Nokia holds a huge array of antenna patents when they still did antenna research.

Re:'Bout time

[Man On Pink Corner]

19.8 dBm while "holding normally" is a lot of loss. One-tenth the field strength in volts/meter is making it to the phone's electronics at that point.

It's rare that I get 20 dB of link margin on an AT&T cell site around here.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

so they can still take thier phones back for a full refund including the bumper. then go out an buy a droid x, which is what the idiots should have bought in the first place. personally, i'll take my iphone over any of the other shit on the market at the moment.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

Again, all we have to go on is his word

Yes, but at least it's the right word instead of what you wrote.

Is it possible that more iPhone users are willing to "suffer in silence" as you put it than users of other brands?

Obviously. It's also obviously possible that fewer are. Is it possible you like to ask groundless questions in order to imply things without saying them? Say, you don't watch the No Spin Zone, do you?

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

I used to use that excuse with your mother too. You're right, it wasnt effective.

I think the real point is that they should have tested the phone before shipping it, or at least had the engineering acumen to realize that the phone was subject to a loss of signal if held with a human hand. I mean, who the hell does THAT with their phone?

Re:'Bout time

[dangitman]

Jobs' has motive for saying the story is bullshit (especially considering there is a court case that has been granted class-action status). If he did not deny the story, it wil be used against Apple in the case.

And Gizmodo has motive for making up bullshit stories. Why would you believe them unless they came up with actual evidence, rather than anonymous comments?

Gizmodo is a third party, and they have been pretty consistent in reporting on both points of view on this issue.

*Snort* Now that's funny.

Re:'Bout time

[Torodung]

That is an ubiquitous equation. Hype is directly proportional to outrage. This is why any company doing competent PR handling needs to watch the hype on any new design, especially when it is a new design of a popular product.

Apple caused all of this, by ridiculously overstating the utility, elegance, and functionality of the iPhone, and by rolling the dice by redesigning the wheel. This isn't the first time they've screwed up with that one.

Then Jobs whined about it. He literally whined. He's done everything short of saying "he wants his iLife back."

I have no sympathy whatsoever for the man, nor his company. It's true, this isn't about any critical issue, but it's a severe issue, a design flaw worthy of a recall, IMHO, and also Jobs' opinion, as Apple is offering refunds.

But ultimately, this is about Jobs being a lousy spokesman when representing his company. If I was a shareholder, I'd be pissed. If I were on the board I'd want some assurances from him, or I'd ask for new leadership, before it turns into a real problem.

--
Toro

Re:'Bout time

[zmollusc]

mod parent talking-sensibly-in-the-midst-of-a-flame-war

Re:'Bout time

[Torodung]

That qualification is probably on the advice of counsel, though. If he makes an unqualified apology, he is throwing his company to the wolves. :^/

--
Toro

Re:'Bout time

[zmollusc]

Holy crap! That is some heavy-duty tape you have there!

Re:'Bout time

[furball]

Were you not paying attention when your Apple sales dude was upselling you AppleCare like he normally does for every piece of Apple hardware that he sells?

Re:'Bout time

[Low Ranked Craig]

mils = 1/1000 of an inch, not a millimeter...

Re:'Bout time

[daver00]

Except we are talking about stainless steel here, not alluminium. Stainless steel is a lot harder to coat, and could add significantly to the overall cost of manufacturing the device, they have opted for a ridiculously over the top, and no doubt highly expensive screen on this thing, so the margins are likely thin on the rest of it. I believe to coat the stainless you would need to powder-coat it, you can't just slap on some laquer and hope for the best, and I don't know of any clear powder coat. I'm not saying its impossible, but I am saying its probably too expensive to be feasible. They could go back to regular steel and coat that, it wouldn't be stainless anymore but you could get some really nice colours going.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

Considering he demonstrated the exact same effect with HTC and Nokia phones live this morning, I would say the problem was pretty clearly not isolated to the iPhone 4 and it's antenna design. Every phone on the market suffers from this to some extent, and the ones shown in the demo also dropped fro 5 bars to 1.

More importantly, it took over a minute to drop down to one bar, but returned to 5 in a few seconds - after all the hoopla about "optimized" bar display, the Android Drones should look at their own source code.

Re:'Bout time

[zmollusc]

Thanks, I had not heard that one. They always call 0.001 inch a thou round here (UK). Not that they get used much any more.

Re:'Bout time

[daver00]

Me, I want them to stop telling flat out lies to the public, actually I want their "loyal fanbase" to stop swallowing their flat out lies but which is more likely to happen do you think? Look, all companies spin, all companies have powerful PR departments to make them looks good. But Apple, they don't spin shit, they just fucking lie to your face. Thats fine if nobody is listening, but they have a goddamn army of follower who then go forth and use these complete lies as a platform to sit on and take a dump on any competing technology. Fuck Apple.

I never used to be so bitter about Apple, but lately it has gotten so much worse, a stench has slowly built up and somehow I've just gradually grown to despise their every action. I don't even give a fuck about their products, hell I even commend them for the first iPhone! They literally breathed new life into a stale industry, and now I have a kickass Android handset and I have a lot to thank Apple for that. And good on them! But what is up with the lies? More lies in this press conference:

- iPhone doesn't have a specific issue, its just smart phones are like that.

Bullshit, you think you can stick an active, conductive surface on the outside of a hand held device and think that it is going to perform the same as a device who's active, conductive surfaces are insulated? Fucking bullshit, suggesting that this problem problem faced by a phone which does not expose its antenna to the world is a fucking lie, not spin, its a lie. True to form, instead of admitting error, Apple takes a shit on the entire smartphone industry. Can you even fathom a Nokia executive at a press conference saying a problem with his phone is not really a design flaw because the iPhone has the same problem? No other company would try this shit on.

To just sum up, with this iPhone release they have claimed the following (all complete lies):

- Invented video calling
- Invented new type of stainless steel
- Invented new glass-polymer laminate
- Moved antenna to outside for better reception (rather than form over function)

And they have a recent history of more of this shit, expect more to come. And what was with Jobs pretending to have Google love all of a sudden? While taking a swipe at HTC in the same fucking breath: "when you're doing well, people want to tear you down. I see it happening with Google, people trying to tear them down. And I don't understand it..." - like, for example... Apple?, then: "what would you prefer? That we were a korean company" - So HTC is unamerican now... Jesus this man galls me.

Re:'Bout time

[cti]

this is not insightful, this is just a confused recounting of the press conference. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/insight

Re:'Bout time

[LodCrappo]

FWIW, my Samsung Blackjack had a sticker on it suggesting that reception would be impaired if you gripped it in a particular portion of the top section. I don't remember the exact wording, and never in the life of the phone worried about it or noticed any problems, but I do recall that sticker.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh please. It was an issue of bridging metal contacts with another conductor - your hand. Any competent antenna engineer would know that would be an issue, even without testing.

So the fact that touching the antenna "the wrong way" actually improves WiFi is obviously a problem too?

Re:'Bout time

[cti]

it's extent, not extend. moron.

Re:'Bout time

[daver00]

Except that Google didn't make any phone, ever, the Nexus One is a branded HTC handset, granted its exclusively Google's phone, but in reality it is just pretty much the same spec you see on any HTC Android device right now. Now I have a HTC Desire, which is close to the exact same hardware as the N1, and 3G reception issues do not exist on this device. The N1 has exposed metal, so it could be that, but I doubt it, metal doesn't mean conductive, steel means conductive.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

Really? Because if that were even REMOTELY true do you not think that BB users would not have made as big a stink at RIM if an entire user base had the issue as bad as the iPhone seemed to have?

If it weren't for the fact that the non-iPhone user base is making the big stink - including you. Gee, could it be that your phone is actually having that kind of problem?

Re:'Bout time

[LodCrappo]

go to *any* engineer who works with RF. say to him "what do you think about putting our antenna where a user cannot avoid having their hand come into direct contact with it during regular use". see what he says about the idea.

there is simply no way this took them completely by surprise. they probably figured it wasn't that big of a deal, and they may even be right about that, but I don't believe for a second this wasn't considered as a potential issue long before the first prototype was built.

Re:'Bout time

[LodCrappo]

honestly i think the return rate is low because what people want is not some other phone, they want an iphone 4 that works.
most were probably hoping that Apple could make that happen. I'm more interested in the return rate going forward, now that Apple has explained that they won't be fixing it.

Re:'Bout time

[LodCrappo]

i think you're right. for every one person that reports an issue like this, there are X more that don't take the time for whatever reason. whether X is 2 or 200 or 2000 is pretty difficult to say. since this problem is more of an annoyance than a crippling issue, i'd suspect X is pretty high here.

Re:'Bout time

[Luckyo]

It would be worth noting that "those who shout the loudest" rarely make the biggest, or the most influential group.

In this case, BB is largely owned by people who need to get ACTUAL WORK done on their phones. For them, complaint threshold on disconnected calls would be far, far lower then for "toy" smart phones that focus on user experience and gaming over function.

If people making noise over their phones actually counted as amount of people using, or returning phones, nokia would be nonexistent rather then biggest, and apple would be what they claim to be (biggest mobile device manifacturer) rather then what they actually are - a marginal western high end niche phone maker.

Re:'Bout time

[Luckyo]

The point is that apple CANNOT admit to a fault. Much of their image, and their sales are based on image of "excellence, infallibity and quality". If they admit to having a serious fault in their phone, they risk an image problem far greater then any potential fallout from this issue - for which most users will blame the operator and their "shoddy network" rather then apple themselves.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

that this crap was ranked insightful just confirms how many apple loving idiots troll this site.

no other phone has a problem with the antenna that is as bad as the iphone. none of them.

In other words, Apple fucked up more than any other manufacturer on one of the most basic elements of a phone.

WTF does the nexus one have to do with that?

Re:'Bout time

[jobst]

This thing's only been out for a month!! at least give them some time to do their own testing, which THEIR USERS did!

There, fixed that for you.

Re:'Bout time

[yeshuawatso]

While your claims are true to some extent, the issue isn't that all phones suffer similar problems, but that Apple has marketed this phone as perfect, better than all others, and of course, Magical. When they say this so much, people are going to believe them and make an issue when the phone doesn't live up to the fluff. Essentially, Jobs just killed the brand by saying the iPhone is like every other smartphone. All this time I've been telling people you can't compare the iPhone to Android because they're not the same class or type of phone; looks like I was wrong.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

one of the worst things for reception is a big bag of contaminated water.

I enjoy your euphemistic way of referring to iPhone users as giant douchebags.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

How dare we hold a company to a higher standard when it tells us it's higher quality than it's competitors and charges us for that claim?

Re:'Bout time

[HelperMunkee]

That's whole situation was a load. Apple planted that "prototype" to increase hype around their new device. No significant changes were planned or could have been made between then and now. Corporations don't just say "oops we seem to have lost our prototype, oh well let's release it anyway."

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

No, idiot. He said the iPhone has the issue as well as most other smart phones. He also said Apple would work diligently in order to repair the issue and share their findings with other companies.

Re:'Bout time

[cjyetman]

"I have to say that these guys stoop pretty low when claiming that this is a general problem. Sounds like spin to me." watch the videos if you don't believe this is a common problem... http://www.apple.com/antenna/

Re:'Bout time

[Buelldozer]

Wow, the RDF is strong with you!

The stated deadline for free cases is 9/30/2010. They will re-evaluate at that time if they will *continue* the program but as of now the last day you can get a free case is 9/30/2010. I don't know how much clearer it can be.

The "nonsense" around here is in _your_ post, sir, not mine.

Re:'Bout time

[Buelldozer]

In most phones, smart or not, the antenna is either buried under the case or poking out the top. In the first case it's impossible to physically touch as it's under the skin of the device, in the second case it's highly unlikely to be gripped during operation because of it's location.

In fact it seems to only be the iPhone 4 that not only elected to build the antenna into the body of the phone but did so in such a manner as to allow direct physical contact while the phone is being held in a casual and comfortable manner.

Are there any other mysteries you'd like me to clear up for you?

Re:'Bout time

[ooshna]

Yeah but remember bad PR is still good PR.

Re:'Bout time

[localman]

Yes, all phones have areas where hand placement will attenuate the signal.

The iPhone has that _plus_ a whole new problem, caused by the uninsulated antennas. Great PR today by Jobs, but the people who know can see through it: yes all smart phones have reception issues, but the iPhone 4 introduced a new one. It's a serious gaffe on their part. The fact that the bumper fixes it proves that exposed antennas are a bad hardware design. The reason not everyone gets the same problem probably has to do with variable skin capacitance. My hands sweat a bit, and I've death gripped several iPhones 4 into submission. My own iPhone 3G does not behave that way.

I'm not trying to play "gotcha" with Apple, and it would unfortunately be business suicide to admit the gaffe clearly because we're such a society of ridiculers... so they've pretty much done the right thing. But there is a real problem with the exposed antenna design and it's too bad they (and many of we) can't admit it.

Cheers.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone work someplace where engineers are allowed to decide how to rectify high-profile issues? No?

Sorry, posting as AC for good reason: I am an engineer for the U.S. tech company with the largest current market capitalization, perhaps you've heard of us? [Not that market cap. is that important.] One of the things that has impressed me in the years I've worked for this company is the fact that our managers are still engineers and still have engineering duties in their job roles. This continues up the food chain in our groups that have "Engineering" in their name. It's not perfect and we still have to work with the bean counters and marketing who give us some boundaries, but it's one of the best companies for whom I've worked. Ever.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

Their return rate has been ~1%, they've received apple care calls on 0.55% of the phones they've sold.

Return rate of ~1% to AT&T. Jobs never mentioned the return rate to the Apple Store. Could be the same, more, or less, but he gave no real data for overall returns. Also, not 0.55% of the phones, but 0.55% of the calls to AppleCare. A (presumably) much smaller number.

Re:'Bout time

[tyrione]

Who on their right mind would make a phone designed with an antenna that you're going to directly touch in normal use?

A company driven by it's Marketing Division, not one driven by it's Engineering Division.

I know. I've worked in both types of companies.

You've clearly never worked for Apple. The first act we did when we [NeXT] merged with Apple was to consolidate 26 separate Marketing divisions into a single division. The rest is all Engineering and Industrial Design. Marketing is easy when your designs are stellar. It's an illusionist nightmare when it's not all Engineering and Industrial Design [Microsoft and Dell come to mind, never mind Android and it's joke of a Robotics Campaign with Verizon].

Re:'Bout time

[tyrione]

No, it is a case of a crappy engineering. The point of the antenna design, as marketed, was to increase reception dramatically, not be the same as current designs. A simple, low-cost solution would have been to apply a thin, transparent layer of some kind of insulating material over the antenna. Then it would look practically identical to what it is now, actually do what Apple says it does, in all use cases, and we would have evidence of competent engineers working at Apple.

What's crappy is the speculation. What's been proven is that Apple didn't expect all 3 points of transition on their Antenna to be squeezed like it's your last dollar and someone's trying to pry it out of your cold, dead hands. Lesson learned.

Re:'Bout time

[tyrione]

Because the media has created this perception, Apple is giving everyone free Bumpers.

To be fair, Apple uses the media to create the perception of perfection, shininess, trendiness, and bug-freeness in their products. So I'd take it all as indicating that media whoring cuts both ways.

The whoring is the Media. They grind both ways as long as it sells papers, tv ad time and internet based blog ads. Apple doesn't pay anyone to advertise their products on tv, in film or via the news. I know, I worked there and the joke was that there is a department in Apple because so many calls were coming in asking permission to show Apple branded products in these mediums and that they'd like to do it for free. The rest of the industry does pay for product placement. Now that Apple has become the pinup model everyone wants to date, the Droid heads are moaning about only their hand for love.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

You can run 10.5 on a G4.

Am I really supposed to believe you know the first thing about Macs if you don't even know that?

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

Those damn G4's. I had mine for only 7 years when the hinge broke. What sort of crappy laptop only lasts 7 years!! Apple also need to learn a thing or two from Microsoft. MS OS's last for 9 years, you only need to restart them twice a day, reinstall the OS every 6 months and do a course in hexadecimal to be able to decipher a system crash.

Pick up your game Apple, I want a smart phone that does everything my laptop does AND can make me a coffee in the morning and I want it to last at least until the year 2025 when cyborgs rule the earth.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

"And at the end of the saga, they still try to weasel out of trouble with the old line 'it wasn't just me, they are doing it too'. I used to try that one on my mother when I got in trouble as a young boy. It didn't work for me then, so I don't see that it should work for Apple now."

It should work for Apple now because they're making a legitimate point. It's simply the laws of physics that you're going to get some attenuation when you the antenna is in the phone that you hold with your hand. It'd be as if your mother said "I want you to fly to school every morning" and you replied, "Sorry, I can't fly, but neither can any of the other kids."

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

And there are Y more that aren't having any problems what so ever and according to the data Y is 2 orders of magnitude larger than X.

Re:'Bout time

[tftp]

The iPhone 4 attenuates a maximum of 24 dBms according to Anandtech. The same test showed the Nexus one Attenuating 17 dBms.

Attenuation is measured in dB. Power may be measured in dBm.

Besides, 7 dB difference is 10^0.7 = 5. This means that Nexus One, gripped to death, still receives 5 times more power from the tower than the iPhone in a similar grip.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

I really want everyone to do me a huge favor before you go quoting arbitrary dB measurements -- LEARN WHAT dB ACTUALLY IS!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decibel

The decibel (dB) is a logarithmic unit of measurement that expresses the magnitude of a physical quantity (usually power or intensity) relative to a specified or implied reference level.

As of yet, i have not seen a single article provide a reference level for ANY of their measurements...

just a quick shout out to all you armchair engineers - just because a website sounds "sciencey" doesn't mean they are giving you correct information...

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

And the public is buying them as fast as they can make them and nor returning them.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

And if that was the only thing he said, you'd have a valid criticism. Unfortunately for your agenda, he said a lot more.

Re:'Bout time

[notknown86]

Yeah, that, and also, maybe the idea to hold a "Come to work dressed as Michael Jackson" week at the Apple testing facility was poorly timed.

Re:'Bout time

[peppepz]

Now they should just replace all iPhone 4 ads showing a "naked" phone with a bumper-covered one, so customers will know what their product will actually look like if they want to effectively use it as a phone.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

And by debunked and discredited, you mean "denied by Jobs".

Re:'Bout time

[Cimexus]

I think it's something to do with how the US networks are provisioned - I only ever hear Americans on /. complaining of having a significant dropped call problem.

I can't recall a single call, ever, that has just 'randomly' dropped (other than stepping into an elevator or being in a train underground etc), and I've been using various (GSM) mobile phones since 1997. During that time I've had Nokias, Motorolas and now an iPhone.

This isn't just another 'troll Americans' post - I think there is a genuine issue over there. It even manifests it in the TV ads you hear for mobile networks in the US cf. anywhere else. US ads often focus on 'less dropped calls', or to quote AT&T, 'more bars in more places'. But elsewhere reception is simply a non-issue and is never the focus of (or even mentioned in), an ad.

Certainly networks in large countries often advertise their 'coverage' (e.g. Telstra NextG in Australia advertises that it covers 97% of the population or whatever). But that's not the same as advertising "if you do have coverage, our calls won't drop out as much as our competitors", like they are doing in America.

Re:'Bout time

[rat7307]

The iPhone problem is nothing new and has been in all iPhones to date and non-iPhones I owned prior. Apple is a big name so people make a big deal out of everything they do. They get a lot of free press/hype when things are good and when things are bad it can quickly turn around.

APPLE make the big deal about their products. THEY create the expectation through their wall to wall marketing blitzes and so on.

If Jobs wasn't such a smug douche about these things there wouldn't be half the fuss there is today IMO

Re:'Bout time

[tsa]

Of course not. Those dudes are basically saying that they don't trust the hardware they sell, but you can buy more warranty to stay out of trouble. Of course no one in their right mind would do that.

Re:'Bout time

[gilesjuk]

Well most phones put the antenna at the bottom of the phone, this is so your head isn't blocking the signal.

Like Jobs said, you can't change the laws of physics. The antenna has to go at the bottom of the phone, if you put your hand over the antenna then your hand blocks the signal. It does it on my iPhone 3G, although you do have to hold it insanely tight.

Re:'Bout time

[shaitand]

Puritan, there's nothing wrong with a little exposed cell flesh. It's perfectly natural.

Re:'Bout time

[shaitand]

It's a Bloomberg story, not a gizmodo story.

Re:'Bout time

[shaitand]

Actually I think its Extenze /

Re:'Bout time

[tclgeek]

It's not so much the iphone is poorly designed, or other phones are poorly designed. The fact is (or seems to be...), there's a hard problem to solve in the smart phone arena and Apple, like others, have so far failed to solve the problem. So, they haven't designed a flaw into the device; instead, they've failed to design a solution to an inherent problem that nobody else has solved either.

Re:'Bout time

[tclgeek]

I think, though, that the other 99% of calls have better quality. So, improve reception for 99% of the calls by sacrificing quality for 1%? Sounds like a decent trade-off. Unless you're that 1%.

Re:'Bout time

[ahankinson]

I mostly agree with you, but by what measure would you say they've "dragged their feet"? The thing's been out for less than a month. In internet time, that is dragging your feet; in the real world, that's an incredibly short turnaround to come up with a) reliable data for the phenomena; and b) a comprehensive solution to the issue.

Re:'Bout time

[ahankinson]

Really? That's how you read it? 'Cuz the way I read it is that Apple was saying "There are tradeoffs any phone makes. Just because a Blackberry doesn't have a media storm about the antenna doesn't mean that the same problems don't affect them."

Re:'Bout time

[ArmchairGeneral]

I think the 0.5% number is total BS. It would have been super easy for Apple to say a bad batch was mistakenly released from the factory and made its way into the hands of our consumers, therefore, anyone with a faulty iPhone can get a replacement. But they didn't, instead they compared signal strengths to other devices. Which leaves the other problem, if other devices suffer from the exact same problem, what difference will a bumper make?

Re:'Bout time

[ahankinson]

The only design flaw they made was putting the gap in an obvious and touchable place, which SJ outright admitted (the whole "X marks the spot" bit). If they'd put that on the top, away from the palm of the hand, I don't think you'd see near the amount of problems.

Re:'Bout time

[mei_mei_mei]

They had plenty of time to do their own testing BEFORE they released it.

Re:'Bout time

[ahankinson]

According to their data, they *haven't* done anything wrong. But hey, why use data when you can grind an axe on imagined "facts", right?

Re:'Bout time

[ArmchairGeneral]

The Captivate looks very promising, being released in Canada this month as well.

Re:'Bout time

[ahankinson]

Earlier? How much less than 22 days would you have expected it? And they haven't said they'll cut it off after two months; they said they would "re-evaluate" the possible solutions.

Re:'Bout time

[Raenex]

Hint: Original story, by Bloomberg.

Re:'Bout time

[EastCoastSurfer]

And I agree with you. The biggest SNAFU from Apple in this whole thing has been how they have handled the PR. From SJs use of 'magical' (although I thought he only said that about the iPad, I'm not sure) to his arrogant quips and finally to Apples deafening silence.

I hope they take a look at how quickly this thing blew up and learn that next time 3 weeks of silence is a mistake.

Re:'Bout time

[mjwx]

This thing's only been out for a month!! at least give them some time to do their own testing, which they did!

And what did they do with all that time before the damn thing was released?

You know, the time when most companies do this kind of testing and discover these kinds of faults before mass production begins.

Re:'Bout time

[Moofie]

There are companies driven by the Engineering Division in 2010?

Where?

Re:'Bout time

[Nursie]

"I've used the iPhone 4, and when not detuning the antenna due to a bad grip I found the signal strength and call quality to be excellent."

My god man! Snap out of it! Do you see you're now blaming yourself for gripping the phone wrong?

Holy Moley...

Re:'Bout time

[Moofie]

Right, and people two months from now will be able to decide for themselves whether they think the antenna issue is a big deal.

I haven't bought a new iPhone, but I still think it's the right purchase for me. I'm making the decision with my eyes open, which is the right way to do it.

Re:'Bout time

[Phoghat]

Why didn't they do their testing before it came out? If they knew about it why not own up sooner? I love the iPhone but there's shenanigans here

Re:'Bout time

[crossword.bob]

But nowhere in there have they said they will stop the offer on that date. The offer runs to at least the 30th of September. Anything else is speculation dressed up as fact. If you can't distinguish one from the other, you are in no position to judge.

Put another way, my point is valid regardless of whether I love or hate Apple. It is objectively true and based in fact. Your post is utterly steeped in biased subjectivity and supposition.

Re:'Bout time

[crossword.bob]

At the press conference, Jobs stated that you could claim your free case, and have 30 days from that date to cancel, and when asked if AT&T would honour that he said they would. Don't know if AT&T have confirmed this, but that was the claim.

Re:'Bout time

[icebike]

AT&T has Already denied this.

But the Captivate is a better phone than the iPhone4 so most people returning a iPhone4 have a ready upgrade at hand.

Re:'Bout time

[Vlado]

I must say that I disagree with your statement that this is something that "even a good testing program might miss". In that case it's not that good of a testing program...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but to my knowledge these are the facts:
The external "band" antenna is made out of several parts. If you put your finger on the divide where those parts are separated with an insulating material, your finger acts as a conducting device and causes electrical interference which degrades the signal reception.
If that is not something that a guy with a year or two of education in electronics design wouldn't be able to predict, let alone (I'm assuming) a bunch of highly paid engineers, then I don't know what is.

Furthermore, according to my friends, who actually tested an iPhone 4 in Apple store, the problem is very easy to reproduce even in an area with excellent signal. So it couldn't be case where it's just "a few testers in areas with weak signal" would report the problem.

And if the phones on which the testing was done were not of the same design as the final models... Well then you're not really testing the same product, are you?

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you are missing the huge difference in how both the cases were originally handled.

Toyota: Immediately issued a warning, recalled affected units in an appropriate time, did extensive retesting to find any bugs (which they couldn't), gave the usage data of the cars that had the "accelerometer sticking" to an independent tester who found that those cases were all "WOT, no brakes applied" and still Toyota won't blame the users.

Apple: No there isn't an issue. No you are holding it wrong. Pay an extra $30 for a case which will fix it. Oh no, our phone is now not recommended by a lot of companies, have the case for free (even though we can't manufacture a piece of plastic as fast as our phones), but its not really our fault, everyone does it.

Toyota and Apple both say they pride themselves in customer service and satisfaction, only one of them actually shows it when it could cost them money.

Re:'Bout time

[blai]

His point is that Apple is the first innovative(TM) company to invent a new, magical way to fix a problem "every smartphone" has in the cockiest, non-apologetic way I've ever seen.

News at 11

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

Only if it's 867 Mhz and faster, fanboi.

Re:'Bout time

[Tharsman]

My Nexus One has a full call log and not one call drop. It was a replacement for a iPhone 3G which dropped a few calls per month. Same carrier, Same area. Zero drops since I left Apple.

Talking of Nexus One, at least the iPhone issue was fixed with a plastic bumper. How long did users wait for their day one Nexus Ones to finally work with 3G?

Re:'Bout time

[olafva]

And provide a "free" solution to all (a selection of bumpers from a variety of vendors mailed for free)

Re:'Bout time

[poetmatt]

re evaluate? what do you think that means? I'll give you a clue: it means absolutely nothing, because it can mean anything they want.

There are plenty of good and bad ways that could go, but to assume they're going to follow the existing free bumper option when there isn't an angry mob, I wouldn't really expect nor can anyone predict.

Re:'Bout time

[.tekrox]

I've never had a phone with the antenna at the bottom...

Most phones I've opened up have had arrays in the top-rear of the phone; as the battery compartment, main logic board and keypad usually occupy the bottom half of the phone.

Re:'Bout time

[.tekrox]

EVERY Phone manufacturer says this about every flagship phone they make; It's called marketing; its also bulltwaddle - I thought people had worked this out by now.

Don't trust Marketing by Anyone - Its ALL Lies ALL OF IT. Apple is no exception.

I'm still getting an i4 though.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

Would you expect him to say anything other than that? Oh yes, I forgot. Jobs is Jesus II and everything he says is gospel.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

Most people don't bother to report things like this. So the actual number is not representative of the total problem.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

No, they said some people might have the problem that everyone's been blowing out of proportion. But only .5% (not 5 percent, half a percent) of users have even reported the problem.

Most of the people foaming at the mouth about this don't even have iPhones, they just want to see Apple fail.

Because these people have been so loud, the perception is that most people are having reception problems, which is simply not true. For most people the reception is better.

Because the media has created this perception, Apple is giving everyone free Bumpers.

only .5% reported problems to Applecare... He forgot to tell everyone about the ones that complained to At&t who actually handles the service...

Re:'Bout time

[exomondo]

Have you ever touched a TV antenna? What did that do to the signal?

Capacitive coupling...it improves the signal.

An exposed metal antenna is an obvious potential point of failure.

why?

Balls get dropped. It happens all the time. This was not one of those problems that couldn't be forseen or tested for. This was a problem that should have been caught in testing, if not design. Someone screwed up. People screw up, it happens. But someone screwed up.

The issue is that apple didn't front up to it, they decided to first blame the user, when that didn't work they blamed the software and when that didn't work they finally had to admit that it was a problem and it was their fault, but even then they have tried to excuse themselves by saying the issue affects all phones, though it would seem not to the same degree.

Re:'Bout time

[lemoon]

hmm, I read the news "Live from Apple's iPhone 4 press conference". Dude. I'm 99% sure there will be no recalls or h/w fixes. Like some dude called it, they'll say 1) 99% phones are okay 2) 1% suffer from that issue, which still makes us the best and greatest 3) we're giving you free/discounted bumpers so worship us forever While I love their products, of course I do hope Apple steps up on the iPhone 4 improving as soon. The iPhone 4 tempting features, HD Video Recording and lovely pictures you're surprised: http://ifunia.com/iphone-column/index.html

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

A 'stylus' type pen touch screen? Yes those were great...in the 1990's.

Are you that desperate to choose any product but Apple that you would resort to using a stylus pen to use your touch screen?

Re:'Bout time

[Fahrvergnuugen]

It's a design trade off. Yes it's easier to cause attenuation on an iPhone 4, but the phone definitely get's better reception than my old 3GS. I would not trade back. Hopefully there is some dielectric coating out there that can be applied to the iPhone 4 1/2s external antenna which makes it less sensitive.

Re:'Bout time

[Anonymous Coward]

One major difference would be that the Nexus One (actually made by HTC, as I recall, but I may be mistaken) was the *first generation* phone, and so kinks are a little more expected.

The iPhone4 is, well, the 4th generation. By now Apple should have figured these sorts of kinks out, since not too much has changed. Moreover, Google doesn't market itself as the be all end all embodiment of perfection in the way that Apple does. Apple markets itself as a higher standard ("Just works", anyone?), which is why they're being held to one.

Re:'Bout time

[DJRumpy]

I wondered about this. Did anandtech actually open the innards and hook up a monitor, or did they base their observation on the number of bars showing? If the latter, it doesn't seem very scientific. You would think they would need to measure directly off of the antenna internals to get an accurate reading.

Re:'Bout time

[localman]

It's not a design trade off because, as you point out, a dielectric coating would almost surely have avoided this problem without reducing reception to 3GS levels. Even if we're talking aesthetic tradeoffs, there has got to be a clear coating they could have used that would have avoided this.

The external antenna was a clever idea but they didn't do it quite right. They'll probably get it right in the next revision. Such is the bleeding edge.

But as you point out, it's not like it ruins the iPhone 4. It is still an overall better phone than the previous models. It's just that it would have been so easy to make it even better without any fancy tech that it's a little embarrassing for a perfectionist company like Apple.

Cheers.

Re:'Bout time

[dreamchaser]

His customers (I won't buy his overpriced overhyped crap) deserve an apology for his condescending 'You're holding it wrong' comment if nothing else. The man is a megalomaniac who literally doesn't believe he can ever be wrong.

BUMP!

[Anonymous Coward]

BUMP-er

Ok.

[Anonymous Coward]

They should have offered free cases as soon as the problem became evident. Still, better now than never.

Easier solution

[aapold]

The phone shocks you if you hold it the wrong way.

Re:Easier solution

[Kepesk]

And just to drive the point home, it shows the old-timey Sad Mac symbol.

Re:Easier solution

[lennier1]

You'll have to wait a few months and then buy the 4GS(hock) for that. ;)

Re:Easier solution

[Anonymous Coward]

But then the hate-ahs would complain about the battery not lasting very long and demanding a fix for that!

Re:Easier solution

[hazydave]

No... the shock is only when you think non-Apple approved thoughts. Don't worry, though, you'll be "thinking correct" Real Soon Now... the iMindControl app is extremely effective.

Upgrader returns

[Anonymous Coward]

the return rate on the iPhone 4 so far is less than a third of the return rate for the 3GS.

I'm wondering how much of that was driven by upgraders from the 3G who realized that the iteration from 3G to 3GS was not worth it.

Re:Upgrader returns

[Anonymous Coward]

I've spoken with several people who were unsatisfied with the speed of their 3G and upgraded to the 3GS, which they claimed was much faster.

All Shiney, Metal and Glass

[Bing Tsher E]

But ram it into a condom to make it usable.

Re:All Shiney, Metal and Glass

[Anonymous Coward]

What's with this fixation of your with butt ramming?

Re:All Shiney, Metal and Glass

[Bing Tsher E]

This is apple.slashdot.org, not the regular site. I'm just trying to fit in.

(damn! did it again)

I see a lot of denial in this post

[NixieBunny]

Steve goes out of his way to claim that it's really just a trifling little problem. That's not how to win customers.
The way to win customers is to say, "We admit that screwed up, and bad. We'll make it right. Here's how."

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Anonymous Coward]

Considering the size of Apple, I would say he knows a little better than you how to win customers.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[getNewNickName]

No, how to win customers is give them a free case with every purchase before September. I think Steve understands customers quite well.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Americano]

When you put it in perspective and consider the data offered, it is a fairly minor problem.

1) Every phone exhibits signal attenuation to some degree when the hand is placed on/near the antenna assembly, and many can be made to exhibit this same behavior;
2) The dropped call data from ATT shows that the iPhone 4 has performed less than 1 *more* dropped call per 100 calls than the 3GS - an increase, and a sign of a problem, but certainly not in the "IF YOU HAZ IPOHNE 4 U WILL DIEZ" class of problems.
3) 1.7% have been returned so far (about 1/3 the rate for the iPhone 3GS)
4) ~0.5% of the sales have prompted a call to AppleCare about this problem.
5) 3 Million units have been sold so far.

Does this sound like it's a widespread problem where 3 million iPhone 4's are nonfunctional? If all these iPhone 4's were causing call after call after call to drop and just weren't working, the return rate & AppleCare volume would be much higher. Their response is to adjust the signal strength algorithm being used to more accurately reflect the strength of the signal, to offer a free bumper case with each purchase, and to say "if you really find it intolerable, return it for a full refund." If you were following any of the coverage, Steve Jobs actually did offer an apology to "the small number of users affected by this," as well.

What more, realistically, do you expect them to do?

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Anonymous Coward]

Steve goes out of his way to claim that it's really just a trifling little problem. That's not how to win customers.
The way to win customers is to say, "We admit that screwed up, and bad. We'll make it right. Here's how."

Which is true, if you really have screwed up badly. The verdict is still out on that. Everything around Apple gets spun to the extremes...Every new release is either the most revolutionary, innovative, magical product ever, or it's total crap that's so restricted you can't scratch your butt with it. Nothing ever in between.

Self deprecation doesn't work if there are no facts to justify it. If the problem is a minor one, which only affects 1% of users, as Apple claims, then how do you make a grand gesture to "make it right?"

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[flitty]

Agreed. After reading through basically a transcript by Engadget, it was weird how defensive Apple is about the whole thing. You don't come out and hold a highly anticipated and hyped press conference, claim that this isn't a problem, then give away free cases to everybody (which you previously were charging $30+ for). If it's not a problem, why even bother giving out cases? Why bother showing your test facilities and talk about how many engineers worked on the phone? This is like Microsoft coming out and saying "Well, we had 300 Computer Science Engineers working on Vista, and 50 testers constantly testing Vista, so there isn't a problem."

This whole press conference was weird, including the errors in the slides he was showing...

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[alvinrod]

The data backs up that ascertation pretty well though. If this were as big of an issue as people were making it sound, the numbers would show it. They probably should have responded sooner, but the phone has been out less than a month. It took Microsoft a lot longer to respond to an issue than impacted way more consumers and didn't manange to catch as much he'll as Apple seems to be getting. For whatever reason people get some kind of massive hardon about everything Apple and either rush to defend them or rush to attack them.

So unless you want to accuse Apple of hiding data, misrepresenting it, or some other diabolical plot just accept that the whole thing was overblown and don't expect them to grovel at your feet over a few anecdotal reports that spun into stories of a massively defective product that would need a recall. He'll, even though Consumer Reports didn't give it their recommendation, they still rated it the best phone on their site. Seems like a non-issue for most. If it is for you, enjoy your free case or just take the phone back and get something else.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[die444die]

They are giving out cases because the media has helped build the perception that there is a problem with reception on the phone. The free bumper is for people who aren't going to read about this event. Even if you look at the article on cnn.com right now, they miss the point.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[scot4875]

so restricted you can't scratch your butt with it

That's the whole point behind the rounded corners!

--Jeremy

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Anonymous Coward]

How about not releasing broken hardware? Would that be realistic?

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[natehoy]

Translation: Wait until September, we're redesigning the phone casing to put some clear shiny coating on the antenna, but we need to sell through the current stock first.

Of course, if this is true, who knows if the iPhone 4.1 will do better than the 4? As it stands, the 4 seems to have good signal unless you attenuate it by grounding a couple of antennae together.

So if you can put up with a protective case and you want your Shiny, then at least The Steve is ponying up the cases for free.

The fun part was that, since they couldn't source enough cases from Apple, they'd be using third party cases. Meritline should expect a bulk order for the "$1 Apple iPhone 4 Slipcase" very, very soon.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd like to accuse Apple of hiding data, misrepresenting it, or what I would just simply call "lying." Is anyone going to check into those numbers? CAN anyone? Apple can make up whatever they want here.

Beyond that, these are numbers they've supposedly sourced from AT&T, who would also have no problem lying to Apple about it in the first place.

And beyond THAT, the numbers don't even tell the whole story here. You know what, I WISH my phone would drop more calls than it does. When my signal is low, my phone clings onto that nothing signal for as long as it possibly can, usually dropping the call somewhere between 15 seconds and a minute later. When I start to lose reception, I usually hand up, wait for better reception, then call back. These numbers wouldn't account for such a "dropped call."

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Anonymous Coward]

Admit what? there is no problem. Stay tuned.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Anonymous Coward]

Uhm.

Where are the numbers that he quoted come from? I've learned to grain-of-salt anything that comes out of Job's mouth. How many of these complained / returned about the proximity sensor before noticing that the signal was a little wonky?

And how many just tolerate it because it's from them and they must have shinies? lol

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[rjstanford]

Agreed. Not only that, but the iPhone 4 can connect calls in areas that the 3GS couldn't, and those calls are much more likely to drop - there are no statistics, naturally, of people who wanted to make a call and couldn't reach a tower. So it may not even be a sign of a problem.

As an early adopter, I can attest - the attenuation is real, but a squeezed iPhone 4 still performs (for me) at least as well as a delicately cradled iPhone 3GS. This is purely a media-driven issue.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[natehoy]

I'm not Apple fan, and I've never owned (and haven't the slightest interest in) an iPhone, but I have to agree.

The amount of signal degradation is much higher than most other phones, but the circumstances under which it happens are relatively rare and many would never run into it at all (and a case fixes it, so a free case sounds like a winner).

Of course, if you ponied up for the entire Apple Experience including the shiny-shiny case, an external wrapping around all that sexiness might not be to your liking, but if a full refund is available you can always go for that.

I'd say the most worrying is the necessity for an adjustment to the algorithm to more accurately reflect the signal levels so people know when their calls might drop during a death grip incident. That was the one thing that made me stop for a second. Why did they feel the need to inflate the bar readings in the first place? So the iPhone 4 could gain a reputation for having better signal in more places? That sounds a little squirrely to me.

But I like the BlackBerry feature (ALT-NMLL) that shows me signal loss to the nearest -db, rather than estimating it with a 1-to-5 system. I'm also frequently in areas where signal is marginal, so the extra level of detail is extremely useful to me.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Coward Anonymous]

"The dropped call data from ATT shows that the iPhone 4 has performed less than 1 *more* dropped call per 100 calls than the 3GS - an increase, and a sign of a problem, but certainly not in the "IF YOU HAZ IPOHNE 4 U WILL DIEZ" class of problems."

Ah, the beauty of statistical slight of hand. This number is incredibly misleading and you, as many others surely have, fell for it.
The important and telling ratio is [iPhone 4 dropped calls] / [iPhone 3GS dropped calls]. i.e. how many times worse is an iPhone 4 than and iPhone 3GS.
We don't get that number but we do get this other number that lets us draw a graph of how much worse the iPhone 4 is than the 3GS as a function of iPhone 3GS' dropped calls.

The resulting graph is damning no matter where you look. Let's assume that the "less than 1 more" is ~1 more (if it were less than 0.5, Apple would have been happy to point that out). If the iPhone 3GS drops 1/100, then iPhone 4 drops 2/100, or twice as many calls! The relative performance of iPhone 4 gets better as the iPhone 3GS' dropped calls fraction gets higher (i.e. AT&T's networks is worse). So if i3GS drops 5/100 i4 drops 6/100 which is only 1.2x worse.

Essentially, the i4 is much worse than i3GS or AT&T's network stinks.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Zerth]

Put the antenna someplace your hand isn't likely to cover. I'd have to hold my phone sideways to cover the antenna while talking.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Anonymous Coward]

I have to give Apple credit for turning the market. They manage to convert the complaints of the type:
"This Windows computer is CRAP! Fix it!"

to something along the lines of:
"I'm doing something wrong".

People with Apple products have somewhat a humble attitude towards their products and believe those can fail, but it's a user problem. That wasn't the case of Windows PCs where people always thought (even knowing they've done stupid stuff) that was a problem of the computer.
Thus, no wonder that despite your number 2) where I already had tons of problems with the iPhone 3G, people will not complain as presented in 4).

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[spisska]

Wow, way to buy into all the marketing speak.

1) Every phone exhibits signal attenuation to some degree when the hand is placed on/near the antenna assembly, and many can be made to exhibit this same behavior;

Every phone can be manipulated into signal degradation, but this phone allows the user to short the antenna while holding the device in a natural manner. Hardly the same thing.

2) The dropped call data from ATT shows that the iPhone 4 has performed less than 1 *more* dropped call per 100 calls than the 3GS - an increase, and a sign of a problem, but certainly not in the "IF YOU HAZ IPOHNE 4 U WILL DIEZ" class of problems.

Self-serving comments from ATT notwithstanding, the iphone has always been known to have relatively poor reception. It's a fantastic little device that does everything extremely well except make phone calls. And ATT's comment only cements that this model has the worst reception of all. This is a problem.

3) 1.7% have been returned so far (about 1/3 the rate for the iPhone 3GS)

No way to verify the figure, but considering the short amount of time this has been out, and the publicity around the antenna problems, it's same to assume that a) not all phones that have been 'sold' have even been unboxed yet, and b) many who would be returning the phones were awaiting word from Apple on a recall or other remedy. In other words, this statistic is meaningless.

4) ~0.5% of the sales have prompted a call to AppleCare about this problem.

Another misleading number. Only a small fraction of people would ever call Apple support about this -- they'd be more likely to blame ATT, or to accept that the iphone just has poor reception.

You could easily turn same number around and completely change the meaning -- 'Within just weeks of the iphone's release, tens of thousands of user calls flooded AppleCare with complaints of antenna problems'.

5) 3 Million units have been sold so far.

Ford sold over 11 million Pintos. That doesn't excuse them from releasing a shoddy product that could have easily been fixed before its release.

What percentage of Pinto buyers do you think called Ford to complain about exploding gas tanks? How many of the cars were returned within a month of sale? Do you think other cars could be manipulated into having their tanks explode?

The iphone is a very cool device, but that doesn't give Apple a free pass when they screw something up.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Americano]

So you don't like Apple because they're Apple, and think everybody who spent several hundred dollars on a shiny new phone would keep it even if it didn't work because it's an Apple product.

Clearly your logic is astounding. lol

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[c 0xFF]

The true problem is that they have a product with a flaw that was touted as the coolest thing in phone design since caller ID.

It was a marketing department screw up -- any antenna designer will tell you that exposing the antenna like that is a stupid idea. But, the coolness factor won out and the engineers had to do what they were told.

I for one am glad that they're getting raked over the coals. Too many times we engineers are forced to go along with stupid ideas: its rare that the full consequences hit back at those making the decisions.

The only thing left for Apple to do to make me happy is to admit that they put a higher priority on making the phone "cool" than on making it functional. Jobs didn't do that today and probably never will.

I've had to go along with way too many of these types of decisions.... Maybe this will be a lesson to others in the future.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Americano]

Please explain how the hardware is "broken" again? Or perhaps you'd prefer to actually describe the problem in more detail and explain how "doesn't work as well in specific conditions" means "broken"?

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[imunfair]

As someone who deals with end users for PC products I'd say the report/return rate is irrelevant - in my experience many people won't complain about something until it effects them in a huge way, even though it bothers them. Many times even when they do report it the problem has been happening for months before they mention it.

That issue aside, calling a press conference with Jobs basically acknowledges that it is a PR disaster - regardless of the real-world status. It just makes them look petty when they try to point to other phone manufacturers, rather than just fixing their own problem.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[MassacrE]

Why did they feel the need to inflate the bar readings in the first place? So the iPhone 4 could gain a reputation for having better signal in more places? That sounds a little squirrely to me.

From the QA, Jobs said that they wrote the software (including the signal strength display algorithm) themselves, and it has been there since the first iPhone. Some people claimed that the 3G had a patch to increase signal strength that actually was this particular bar algorithm, something Jobs refuted

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[silentcoder]

>What more, realistically, do you expect them to do?

I for one expect them to produce free software or no software and until they day they do - I will never buy any of their products. By the same taken I do not buy (or otherwise obtain or use) anything made by Microsoft or Adobe (indeed - my computers do NOT have flash installed).
Gimme the code, lemme hack it - you may win me over.

More importantly - iphone is a fad. There are two major schools of thought in UI design. School 1 is - make it impossible for hte user to do something wrong. In practise it means removing features, disabling options and preventing customization. Advantage: low initial learning curve. Disadvantage: it sucks - very very soon - specifically the very first time you ever want to do something the designer didn't think you would want to.

The other school of thought is: make everything as customizable as possible, maybe even up to and including the very source code but at least offer every option you can think off. Disadvantage: marginally higher initial learning curve (which basically goes away if you ship with sane defaults and smart initial autoconfigs though). Advantage: tool remains usable even as the user's needs get more specialised and advanced. The user can adapt the workflow to his personal style rather than the otehr way around leading to a more intuitive final result (because people are unique -there is NOTHING beyond a nipple that's intuitive to more than one person).

Things that try approach one: Apple OSX, Windows (mostly), Gnome (I will never forgive them for removing the option for ANYBODY to do double-sided printing because "too many people would never need that"), Iphone, MS-Paint
Things that try approach two: KDE, Android, Google (in general), Linux (below the desktop level), gimp and photoshop*

Software of the second variety tend to fall behind in the short term then gradually surpass and exceed the popularity of the first variety - because it's simply a much better model.
As Torvalds said - if you treat your users like idiots, very soon only idiots are your users.

*Note that for this second part of the post I was rating popularity and long-term success of these schools of thought and not considering issues of software freedom. Those issues are still highest priority for me, but I couldn't fairly compare the real-world success of the models if I left OUT the proprietary software.

Apple and the iPhone is firmly wedged in the former camp - it's a wonderful short-term strategy but the only POSSIBLE outcome in the medium to long term is that it WILL come back to bite them in the ass and iphone will, like mac, become relegated to a tiny minority of the market who are either too fanboiyish to consider something else - or fits the apple demographic so perfectly that none of the million things it cannot (ever) do is something they really need.

So - if apple ever wants my custom - they will need to change that model AND make their software FSF level free. Till then I'll use my customized android thanks - it's a free as I can get right now. Even if they don't care about me, the design model if not changed will still end up destroying the market share they have. This is just the first step - Jobs is learning that the iphone has moved way outside the fanboi world - real users don't just "do what king Jobs says they should".
It's going to be very interesting for Apple from here on in.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[BobMcD]

Steve goes out of his way to claim that it's really just a trifling little problem. That's not how to win customers.
The way to win customers is to say, "We admit that screwed up, and bad. We'll make it right. Here's how."

Agreed. And further,

He went on to say that only 0.55% of all iPhone 4 users have called in to complain about reception problems

No kidding? People didn't call tech support for a phone having bad reception? Are you SURE?

Maybe, just maybe, they emailed instead? I'm just saying...

Talk about a 'supporting statistic'. It almost insults the intellect.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Americano]

No, I understand quite well that they provided the statistics that paint the problem in the most favorable light. Even if it's a "100% increase", from 1 drop / 100 calls to 2 drops / 100 calls, you're still talking about a very small *impact*.

Let's look at it in regular usage, say I use an iPhone to make or receive 20 calls per day. In 5 days, I'll have to hit "redial" two times if I have an iPhone 4. With an iPhone 3GS, I would have had to hit "redial" once in that same time.

Yes, that's a "100% INCREASE!" No, it's not a "major problem." You might say it's a minor problem, or an inconvenience.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[macs4all]

Translation: Wait until September, we're redesigning the phone casing to put some clear shiny coating on the antenna, but we need to sell through the current stock first.

That should take about 48 hours, because Apple is BEHIND ON DEMAND on the iPhone 4. There IS no "current stock".

Next time actually check out the Press Conference before you show yourself to be an uninformed asswipe.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[19thNervousBreakdown]

If this is your definition of broken hardware, then no.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Anonymous Coward]

Steve goes out of his way to claim that it's really just a trifling little problem. That's not how to win customers.
The way to win customers is to say, "We admit that screwed up, and bad. We'll make it right. Here's how."

One fix he offered was "if you don't want an iphone 4 don't buy it" real nice, what an ass

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Ceseuron]

What more, realistically, do you expect them to do?

Realistically, I expect Apple to take ownership of the problem without watering it down with irrelevant information on problems that competitor products have, as Apple has thus far done. If I bought an iPhone 4 and was experiencing the problem, I wouldn't really care about hearing how holding a Blackberry a certain way makes it lose reception. The simplest way to keep your customers happy (and maybe impress some more into buying your product) in times like this is to keep it simple. Recognize the problem and take ownership, even if the real issue lies somewhere down the supply chain of parts used to make your final product. Be honest and forthright about what your plans are to address the problem and follow through appropriately. Anything else outside of that, including highlighting defects that your competitors products have, is completely irrelevant.

         

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Kristoph]

"We admit that screwed up, and bad. We'll make it right. Here's how."

Steve Jobs: 'We're not perfect. We want to make *all* of our users happy.'

Steve Jobs: 'We screwed up.'

Steve Jobs: 'To our customers who are affected by the issue, we are deeply sorry"

And obviously, they are trying to make it right by giving you a free case and, if your not cool with that, giving you a full refund, no questions asked. What more do you want exactly?

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Arkham]

It's almost like you wanted him to say:

It's very hard, when we look at this data, not to conclude that there is a problem. But it's a problem affecting a small percentage of users. ... we care about every user, and we're not going to stop until every one of those is happy....Let me tell you what we're going to do. First think, we've released iOS 4.0.1, which fixes the wrong formula for bars and there was a nasty Exchange bug, and that's fixed too.We recommend that every iPhone owner update to it. Second, a lot of people have told us, the bumper solves the signal strength problem. Why don't you just give everyone a case? Okay. Everyone will get a free case.

He pretty much said exactly that. There's a problem. We want to fix it, here's how.

I'm not an iPhone user (I use a Nokia N900 and like it), but the response seems pretty much exactly what everyone wanted it to be.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Americano]

I see.

So your completely scientific safe-to-assume's, more-likely's, and other speculative commentary are a more authoritative way to judge the scope of this problem than Apple & ATT's real-world usage data.

Thanks for clearing that up for us.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[UnknowingFool]

And what if it is a trifling problem that affects a small number of customers? Anecdotally, none of the iPhone owners I know have experienced this problem. But I am willing to admit my limited sample size does not adequately represent the whole population statistically.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Coward Anonymous]

In daily use it may not make a huge difference, I agree. I have one and I can't say that it's any worse. It's been pretty bad to begin with. However, the plain facts are that the i4 is apparently considerably worse than the i3GS. The design is considerably worse.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Americano]

If I bought an iPhone 4 and was experiencing the problem,

STOP. What is "the problem"? That you lose bars when your hand interferes with signal? Does this ACTUALLY translate to real-world performance degradation? Or are you freaking out because your phone shows "only 2 bars!" (while it continues operating just fine)?

The actual usage data that ATT & Apple provided suggest that it's much more the latter than it is the former.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[natehoy]

So sorry, Mr. Troll, I should have chosen the term "current production run". My apologies.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Anonymous Coward]

On the flip side of your argument, I've been on several projects with engineers who didn't have to listen to any "stupid input from dumb business or marketing people".

The engineer's egos did really well.

Unfortunately, the product was a complete disaster.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Chardish]

To summarize Jobs: "Most people aren't seeing this issue. A small percentage are." They didn't say it wasn't a problem, otherwise they wouldn't have given out the free cases. At the same time, you don't hold a giant mass recall for a product that 99% of your customers are satisfied with.

I don't see how anyone could have an issue with Jobs's response. Like the iPhone? Great, keep it, and you get a free case. Like the iPhone, but are in the small minority having signal issues? Consumer Reports says cases fix it. Have a free case. Still don't want the iPhone? Return it, get your money back.

What's the problem for the consumer here?

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[natehoy]

I suppose since there's no real industry standard for "bars", each company can make them up as they go.

Personally, I'd rather own a phone that estimated a little on the low side, but I suppose a phone that shows more bars would tend to lead purchasers to believe that it has a better radio/antenna combination.

So I can easily see why Apple (and most companies in the business to actually sell phones) might easily be driven to a certain amount of, shall we say, "puffery" in their signal-bar algorithms.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Aboroth]

For some reason which I may never fully understand, many people have chosen to swear fealty to a corporation, and will do whatever mental gymnastics are necessary to make sure Apple seems to do no wrong. Steve Jobs will never, ever admit it was just bad engineering from the beginning, since that risks breaking the reality distortion field.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Abcd1234]

The only thing left for Apple to do to make me happy is to admit that they put a higher priority on making the phone "cool" than on making it functional.

Except that's bullshit.

I'm no Apple fan (in fact, I own no Apple hardware at all), but even to an outsider it's obvious they came up with this antenna design to *improve* reception. That was the whole fucking point: To *make it work better*. And, at least from what I've heard, the approach has generally worked, save for this bridging problem (one that could easily be solved with some kind of insulating, transparent coating over the antenna bands).

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[macs4all]

Ah, the beauty of statistical slight of hand.

Actually, the REAL interesting ratio would be how many iPhone 4 vs. OTHER MANUFACTURERS calls are dropped.

Also, didn't I read somewhere that this seems to be primarily an ATT phenomenon? Did you ever stop to think that Apple couldn't exactly come out and say "Well hey, don't blame us. It's AT&T's shitty network."

I think the real problem is that, since the antenna design and circuitry IS actually better (higher gain overall), what is ACTUALLY happening is that people are able to place calls in more marginal areas than with the 3GS (several anecdotal reports around the intarwebs seem to confirm this); but those calls are VERY "fragile". Move your hand, or move your body, and that call that JUST makes it through at -120dBm(?) is suddenly below the PLL lock threshold at -122dBm (or whatever the magic cutoff is), and BAM! There goes your call. Whereas, the 3GS wouldn't even ATTEMPT the call at those signal levels.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[fullfactorial]

Steve says it's trifling because it is trifling! While certainly a design flaw, I would only consider it serious if:

1. • it causes lots of damage.
   • it's hard to fix or work around.

When I think "serious" product failures, it's something dangerous (Sony batteries), or renders the product useless in a way that the user can't fix (Droid X eFUSE). Dropping 1% more calls is a minor impact, and even my 95 year old grandfather can put a phone in a case.

It's a problem, and I'm glad Apple is addressing it with free bumpers. That said, schadenfreude is the only way I can make sense of the all the media hoopla against Apple. Will Consumer Reports change their recommendation once they receive their free bumpers?

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Anonymous Coward]

The important and telling ratio is [iPhone 4 dropped calls] / [iPhone 3GS dropped calls]. i.e. how many times worse is an iPhone 4 than and iPhone 3GS.
We don't get that number but we do get this other number that lets us draw a graph of how much worse the iPhone 4 is than the 3GS as a function of iPhone 3GS' dropped calls.

I can give you something very close to that number. I have seen figures for call drops from phones on several different networks. Generally the figures I see are somewhat anonymized to indicate only the baseband chipset used by the phone in question (apart from those made by my employer).

- A good phone drops under 1% of calls, when averaged over several million call attempts. The very best phones (which are usually inexpensive feature phones) get about 0.7% calls dropped.
- A decent smartphone drops something around 1.5-2% of calls, over a similar number of call attempts.
- A high-end Smartphone using the Infineon chipset drops around 2.7% of calls. The only such device I know of is the iPhone (3/3GS).

If the iPhone4 is dropping 1% more calls than the iPhone3/3GS, this implies something around 3.5% of calls dropped, which is a very poor result indeed. My employer gets put under a lot of pressure by networks for any device which is worse than 1.5%.

There is some variation in calls dropped by a given phone between different networks. This is a function of network planning, congestion and/or poor cell-site configuration, as well as the measurement methodology (which differs slightly between networks). However, the relative positioning of different devices in the league table doesn't change so much, and the absolute figures are pretty similar as well.

Designing a touchscreen smartphone with good RF performance is a huge challenge. A noisy high-speed apps processor, multiple radios and the presence of a large metal shield over most of the device (i.e. the LCD) are all major problems for designers to overcome. Oftentimes when I look at device teardowns, it is clear that antenna design was a total afterthought. There are a few companies who consistently do a good job in this area: Nokia, Sony-Ericsson and Motorola come to mind (HTC are nearly there as well) - almost every product from these is above average in performance. Others are far less consistent in RF performance, although their products may be very shiny!

More anecdotally, my Nokia E71 has a far better ability to hang on to a signal in a poor signal area than my wife's iPhone (3G). Your Mileage Probably Won't Vary (YMPWV?)

AC for reasons which should be obvious.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Flea of Pain]

4) ~0.5% of the sales have prompted a call to AppleCare about this problem.
5) 3 Million units have been sold so far.

Does this sound like it's a widespread problem where 3 million iPhone 4's are nonfunctional? If all these iPhone 4

However, 0.5% of 3 Million is 15,000. And as you know, one call equals a billion people, so clearly this is affecting 15,000 billion people! I'd call that a problem.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Americano]

If it's the terrible, broken product that everybody's spouting off that it is... why would you buy it?

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[voidptr]

So he's an ass to admit they aren't the only alternative on the market, and if you think this issue is big enough to sway you to competitior, he's not going to lose sleep over it?

Hell, more than 15,000 people who bought an iPhone (0.5% of 3M) have probably called Apple Care complaining that it lets the aliens/cia/nsa/at&t get into their head at night and steal their thoughts. There's always going to be some small percentage of people you can't make happy and are actually better non-customers than customers.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Zalbik]

The dropped call data from ATT shows that the iPhone 4 has performed less than 1 *more* dropped call per 100 calls than the 3GS

This alone is alarming. I rarely have "dropped" calls on my phone (an LG), typically only in elevators / tunnels. A much much more likely scenario is that I can't hear the other party, or they can't hear me. In these cases, I hang up and dial back.

Seriously, if the other smartphones have just as bad problems, why hasn't anybody noticed? Yes, there is a certain amount of media frenzy against Apple, but I can't believe there has been a conspiracy by all media sources to cover up an issue which Jobs claims happens to all other smartphones.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Anonymous Coward]

Ford sold over 11 million Pintos. That doesn't excuse them from releasing a shoddy product that could have easily been fixed before its release.

Heh, car analogies. The fact is, the Pinto was no more dangerous than any other vehicle at the time and many of the studies done on its safety were biased or flat out lies. Same thing happened to GM trucks with their saddle gas tanks.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[macs4all]

I for one am glad that they're getting raked over the coals. Too many times we engineers are forced to go along with stupid ideas: its rare that the full consequences hit back at those making the decisions.

I am an embedded developer (albeit not usually of RF devices, although I have designed at least one 802.15.4-based product), and wholeheartedly agree with you on the above-quoted statement in a general sense; HOWEVER, in this case, it might have actually been the FCC mandate that antennae be placed near the BOTTOM (away from brain!) end of cellphones, coupled with an honest engineering (actually testing) oversight.

I, too, sort of shuddered when I saw the iPhone 4 keynote describing where the antennae were, and am actually amazed that there aren't more antenna detuning and impedance-changing problems from body contact (or even close proximity). But I really don't think this was a marketing "form over function" kind of thing. More like something that just didn't show up during testing. It happens, and if you are a REAL engineer, you'd know that.

If you are an engineer, you can well appreciate that there are no more thorough testers than those who are NOT familiar with how to use a product. Well, Apple just "employed" about THREE MILLION "testers" in about 3 weeks. How could ANYONE create a completely flawless product when faced with that many diverse "applications"?

BTW, as an "engineer", you should also know that GOOD antenna design is HARD, and, the higher the frequency, the more critical the design, and more easily upset is the characteristic impedance.

So now, LIKE ANY OTHER MANUFACTURER OF ANY OTHER CELLPHONE, they will go back and do a little tweak on the antenna design (and maybe even give the internal circuitry a little more gain. and/or tweak the PLL lock filter time constants), and/or clear-kote or oxide-coat the antenna, and all will be well.

These are the kinds of production mods that EVERYONE does ALL THE TIME. As a supposed "Engineer" (of what?), you should bloody-well know that. But NO ONE ELSE has the "Product Launch" visibility of Apple. So it gets blown WAY out of proportion.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[LaRainette]

Well of course there was a small return rate : they promise to fix the problem.

Now that Steve jobs solution is known (a.k.a. the condom proposition) let's see how the return rate evolves...

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow. He never said "safe-to-assume" and the only "more likely" was regarding why people might not call AppleCare. Most of his points were pretty straightforward logically. Do you disagree with any of them specifically, or are you just content to remain in the reality distortion field?

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[BlueStraggler]

You are also engaging in the art of "damn lies". The actual important and telling ratio is iPhone 4 dropped calls by signal strength / iPhone 3GS dropped calls by signal strength. The iPhone 4's redesigned antenna is supposed to make it more sensitive, which means it could be connecting calls where the 3GS could not. If these are the calls that are most likely to get dropped (and it seems pretty obvious that they would be) the 4 could still be outperforming the 3GS even with this problem.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Anonymous Coward]

Every phone can be manipulated into signal degradation, but this phone allows the user to short the antenna while holding the device in a natural manner. Hardly the same thing.

But my old BlackBerry Bold exhibited similar behavior when held in a natural manner. Jobs showed a couple of other example of other smart phones doing the exact same thing when held in a natural manner. How many months of complaining about the BlackBerry Bold antenna problems did we have to suffer through? None? I wonder why that is.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[macs4all]

More importantly - iphone is a fad.

Yeah, right. That's why EVERY phone manufacturer has been bending over backwards to copy it.

BTW we're nearly at the 5 year mark on the iPhone, and, if three million sales in 3 weeks is any indication, it is a "fad" that simply isn't fading.

BTW, rock music, cars, and color television were all dismissed at one time as "fads".

How long does something have to last before you no longer consider it a "fad"?

ill then I'll use my customized android thanks

You and all of about 15,000 other people WORLDWIDE. That number isn't even statistically significant to a company like Apple.

BTW, have fun with your Android apps and their propensity to expose user data, and Google's PROVEN propensity to REMOVE APPS from "your" phone.

Yeah, that's REAL freedom, alright. Google wants an app off (or even ON!) your phone, and POOF!

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Aeros]

The Iphone is a fad? And what I got from that is you are (or think you are) clearly superior because you dont own/use anything made by Apple, MS or Adobe. Yes you do indeed rule (and yes im being sarcastic).

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Aeros]

this is slashdot. People are just going to bitch about anything and everything because they can. There are just WAY to many negative people on here.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[spisska]

Heh, car analogies. [snip]

It's not an analogy, it's a comparison between poor engineering and quality control in a phone, and a historic example of poor engineering and quality control.

Both are examples where the manufacturer knew there was a problem yet opted not to fix it before shipping.

An analogy would be: The iphone 4 is like a car that stalls when you hold the steering wheel in the 10-2 position -- but it's alright because it only stalls sometimes.

While it may be that the Pinto was only marginally less safe than other cars of the era, it's also true that a rear end collision with a Pinto, given the right circumstances, could result in an explosion. Other cars of the era exploded significantly less often.

Given a choice between a car that sometimes explodes and one that doesn't, which would you choose?

Or more on topic, given a choice between a phone that can connect to emergency services and one that can often connect to emergency services (provided you hold it the right way), which would you chose?

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Anonymous Coward]

Ford sold over 11 million Pintos. That doesn't excuse them from releasing a shoddy product that could have easily been fixed before its release.

Let me know when gripping the iPhone the wrong way causes it to blow up, just don't call me, I have an iPhone.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[macs4all]

Seriously, if the other smartphones have just as bad problems, why hasn't anybody noticed? Yes, there is a certain amount of media frenzy against Apple, but I can't believe there has been a conspiracy by all media sources to cover up an issue which Jobs claims happens to all other smartphones.

Are you kidding me? You simply aren't looking, and then saying "It doesn't exist". HTC, Motorola, Blackberry ALL have various people whining about "too many dropped calls".

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Andtalath]

What they did:
1: Offer an explanation of their perception of the issues which have come out of this, backed up by statistics.
2: Concluded that it's blown out of proportion.
3: Offered to give stuff away for free to appease everyone who's had problems without requiring any sort of proof that they do have problems, and to let people get their money back if they still weren't satisfied.

If any other company had acted this way (analysing the problem, giving out the information and giving a fix or refund to the ones who aren't happy), most people would be impressed.
When apple does it, it's suspicious.

Heck, I'm suspicious as well and I dislike the iPhone, still, this does seem to have been blown out of proportion.
Let's see what happens over the next months.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Anonymous Coward]

Let me know when gripping the iPhone the wrong way causes it to blow up, [...]

When you're having a heart attack and try to call 911, but the call doesn't connect -- because you're not holding the phone they way Apple says you should.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[mikeleb]

Are you suggesting then if one phone never drops a call and another phone drops 1 in 10 million, that the second phone is infinitely worse? I would suggest that saying 'it drops 2x as many calls' is more misleading than saying it drops '1 extra call per hundred', since the former number directly translates into how many extra dropped calls I should expect if I buy the phone, whereas the first really tells me nothing. If the 3GS dropped 20% of calls, then dropping twice as many is TERRIBLE. If the 3GS dropped 0.00001% of calls, then I could care less if the 4 dropped twice as many. But tell me 1 extra call per hundred, then I know exactly what I'm getting.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[silentcoder]

With a nick like Macs4All would you like to guess how much your post impressed me ? You clearly weren't going to give objective consideration to my points.

>Yeah, right. That's why EVERY phone manufacturer has been bending over backwards to copy it.
Funny, the one most accused of that is android and it stands out for differing on iphones most CRUCIAL design decision. Locked down UI, strictly controlled app-market and absolute control over the code. The differentiator is being exactly EVERYTHING that apple has NEVER been in their entire history.

>How long does something have to last before you no longer consider it a "fad"?
You realize that something like 85% of all iphones sold are sold in one country ? It's a fad, and a local one. Across the rest of the world Nokia and Google are getting the bulk of the smartphone sales. In South Africa where I live iphones are ONLY bought by the people who already have macs. The most popular smartphone by far is the blackberry.

>You and all of about 15,000 other people WORLDWIDE. That number isn't even statistically significant to a company like Apple
How long has android been around ? Less than a year really. It is now the platform of choice for very nearly EVERY handset manufacturer outside apple. There are some exceptions left but they all had platforms before. Android has the potential to drive smartphone prices down to commodity levels and it's already begun to do so. The more the price difference grows - the more apple will lose, the low end androids will still compete for features (if not speed) and the high-ends will ever more start to outdo it. It's already more feature rich by the simple expedient of not making rules about what features users are allowed to have. What will happen in another year ?

>BTW, have fun with your Android apps and their propensity to expose user data
That doesn't affect me - first part of my post, my android is running a customized version already, and I'm busy hacking the OS code to make some more customizations I want. Nothing fancy - but certainly cool. As on my PC - I refuse to install any apps on my phone for which I cannot get the code under a free license -and the number is growing FAST. I'm planning to add to it. Where will you get Linux level code-audits in the apple world ? EVER ?

>Yeah, that's REAL freedom, alright. Google wants an app off (or even ON!) your phone, and POOF!

If I HAD to choose, I would choose the company that removes MALWARE with TROJANS over the one that censors their market prior to the fact based on morals I do not share. I didn't particularly like that myself, I think a popup informing users that the app should be removed, why and having a button to do so would be a better way to do it - but it's STILL better than the controlled appmarket apple runs.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Coward Anonymous]

The units as given by Apple are "less than 1" out of 100. We are not talking 1 in 10 million. We are talking parts of 100 and we are not comparing anything with a perfect phone.
So yes, you can make up numbers to contrive an example but those are not the numbers at hand.
With the numbers at hand, saying that your new phone will drop twice the calls (or 40% more calls if you believe the numbers in the AC's post) than your old phone did is a pretty good metric for most people.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Anonymous Coward]

But even that's misleading, if you believe the Anandtech review. I don't own an iPhone (or any smart phone for that matter), but my understanding from that review is that the iPhone 4 actually connects calls in places with low signal where the 3GS would not even get a connection. So you really have to compare # dropped calls + # calls that didn't go through in the first place. But as someone above pointed out, there can be no statistics for calls that never went through (unless the phone logged it and sent it in anonymously later; even that's misleading because users won't even attempt to call from known dead spots).

If the reports are to be believed, then it's quite likely that the iPhone 4 is actually connecting more calls than the 3GS would in the same areas. Apple's data talks about dropped calls per 100 calls - those that were at least initially connected. If the iPhone 3GS drops, say, 4 calls per 100 connected, then their data says the iPhone 4 drops 5 calls per 100 connected. But if there were, say, 10 more calls that the 3GS couldn't connect at all, but only 5 more that the iPhone 4 couldn't connect, then the story is much different. In that case, the 3GS actually failed on 14 out of 110 calls (12.7%) while the iPhone 4 failed on 10 out of 105 (9.5%).

Numbers pulled out of you know where.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, they seem to have represented numbers in a way that actually means something to me. They could say 2x as many dropped calls if its from 1 to 2 or 1.2x as many like you said. But what does that mean to me? I'm not really concerned with ratios, but rather 'Will I be affected?' And the answer from the data (lets assume its reliable) is 'not so much'.

I mean, if the 3GS drops 1 call per 100 and the 4 drops 2 per 100, basically I can assume I most likely won't drop a call. If it drops 51 vs 50 I can assume I'll drop a call half the time. If it drops it 100 vs 99 the phone is useless anyways. So yes, '1 more dropped call per 100 than the 3GS' is a fine way to report the issue. The number is not misleading at all. In fact, it seems that using a ratio like you suggest would make it harder to understand.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[spire3661]

This is it exactly. The reason we rake apple over the coals more so than other companies with similar issues is because Apple blatantly and without shame chooses form > function. This time they went as far to try and show off their fancy antenna and are paying for the consequence now. This entire episode can be described by one word, hubris. Hopefully this will teach apple to reign in their design aesthetic a bit.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[c 0xFF]

I probably shouldn't respond, but I do have a couple points to make. Let me quote first:

I ... am actually amazed that there aren't more antenna detuning and impedance-changing problems from body contact (or even close proximity).

I completely agree. In fact, I'd bet the engineers assigned with making this antenna work knew what they were up against, and then met the challenge head-on. They probably took special steps to tune the antenna knowing that a body would be touching it.

BTW, as an "engineer", you should also know that GOOD antenna design is HARD, and, the higher the frequency, the more critical the design, and more easily upset is the characteristic impedance.

Did I say otherwise? This is exactly why I have a hard time thinking that this was only a testing failure. RF engineers know just how sensitive their design is ... and they know how stupid it is to expose the antenna like on the iPhone.

So, really, there's only two options. Either the engineers were ignorant and their errors didn't come out until after release, or they were overruled. I actually know a few people who design (and research) antennas, and have a very hard time believing this was a simple oversight or testing failure.

By the way, why all the skepticism over me being an engineer? Would it help if I told you that I, too, have designed a 802.15.4 product (Zigbee, to be precise, and from scratch ... including the antenna, an experience I don't want to repeat)? Probably not.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Coward Anonymous]

This is a good point. However, we don't have any numbers for this...

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Coward Anonymous]

From an engineering perspective, the ratio is more important in the sense of "is the design a failure".
From a user's perspective I believe that in this case a ratio is still a better way to look at it. As an iPhone user who experiences a lot of drops, the moment I pick up the phone I already have a gut feeling that some of my calls will drop. Presented with the information that it'll drop twice as many calls is very informative.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[macs4all]

So, really, there's only two options. Either the engineers were ignorant and their errors didn't come out until after release, or they were overruled. I actually know a few people who design (and research) antennas, and have a very hard time believing this was a simple oversight or testing failure.

I don't. There are far many more variables in this equation than simple "detuning".

For instance, what no one seems to be taking into account is the INSANE amount of RF pollution in the real-world, and how this fairly unpredictably affects the total system performance from moment to moment, and sometimes even inch-by-inch in a particular location. This is pointed out by the "anechoic chamber"[sic] that Apple was showing off. The real problem is, after some sort of real-world testing (probably curtailed prematurely when that iPhone 4 proto got left in a bar!), Apple's antenna team had to at some point, like all engineers, fish or cut bait. As a (fellow) engineer, you and I both know that sux; but it is a fact of life.

By the way, why all the skepticism over me being an engineer? Would it help if I told you that I, too, have designed a 802.15.4 product (Zigbee, to be precise, and from scratch ... including the antenna, an experience I don't want to repeat)? Probably not.

Actually it does, and I feel for you in having to deal with that bloated Zigbee stack (and even more so for having to take on a GHz-band antenna design (and without the proper Spectrum Analyzers, etc. too, I'll bet!)). But, it also makes me wonder even more why you find this kind of "situational" problem to be so easily predicted. As you said, Apple's engineers probably did everything they could to minimize the capactive-loading effect. But there were just some situations they couldn't deal with (probably no one could, actually).

And, as I said in another comment, I'll bet that the (what appears to be, from anecdotal reports) higher overall system gain and/or lower min. signal threshold of the iPhone 4 has actually made people more aware of the problem, by being able to PLACE (but not maintain) calls that wouldn't even begin to "go through" on their earlier phones. But then, when those "1 bar" calls get DROPPED, the user doesn't think about anything other than "Damn iPhone!" Not even thinking that their previous phone wouldn't even ATTEMPT to connect in such a marginal situation.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[cloakedpegasus]

*sleight of hand

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[MachineShedFred]

You are perfectly within your own domain to want products that are 100% free and open. However, Apple is perfectly within their own domain to not consider you to be in their target market demographic.

I don't see what the conflict is here. You don't want their product, and they don't want you as a customer due to your deal-breaker issues with their products.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Coward Anonymous]

This is indeed a good point. However, we don't have any numbers for this. It is possible this is true in which case a different set of metrics need to be used. However, those were not the metrics Apple provided.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[anaesthetica]

there is NOTHING beyond a nipple that's intuitive to more than one person

Good news then, because the iPhones' touchscreens work with nipples just as well as with fingertips!

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[NixieBunny]

It's not that he didn't say that there was a problem at all, it's that he attempted to minimize the problem.
Customers don't want to hear that. They want to hear him go all-out to admit the problem and provide a solution. If he had said *only* that there was a problem and here's how he'll make it better, then I'd be fine with it.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[czmax]

Your conclusion that the iphone4 drops "twice as many calls" as the 3GS doesn't pass the sniff test. If things were that bad I think it would be a much more obvious problem and would have taken a much more proactive fix by Apple. I suspect you're reading the Apple messaging wrong. The actual wording from the apple slide is, "(less than) 1 Additional calls dropped per 100 calls compared to iPhone 3GS".

You took this to mean 3GS drops 1/100 calls and that the iphone4 was dropping 2/100. But I think what they actually meant to say was "1 additional calls dropped per 100 dropped calls compared to the 3GS", e.g. that for any location and any number of successful calls if the 3GS would have dropped 100 of them the iphone4 would have dropped 101 of them. This is about a 1% degradation in performance.

Although still a PR problem for Apple -- particularly given that they bragged about this new antenna system. I don't see this as being earth shatteringly worse.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[PrecambrianRabbit]

The only thing left for Apple to do to make me happy is to admit that they put a higher priority on making the phone "cool" than on making it functional. Jobs didn't do that today and probably never will.

I'm genuinely curious here: do you own an iPhone, and would you ever consider owning any Apple products at all? In other words, does it really matter (to Apple, in terms of sales or potential sales) whether they make you happy? I have a strong impression that a significant proportion of the people raging at Apple over this issue are not primarily owners of the device, but are simply people that want to see Apple stumble and fall, for whatever reason.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[rovolo]

AT&T Two months ago

In those recent drive tests, AT&T's network dropped only 1.44 percent of calls nationwide, within two-tenths of 1 percent of the industry leader and a difference of less than two calls out of 1,000.

The usual caveats apply, where this information is in aggregate. I don't know whether smartphones generally have a different dropped call rate because of usage patterns. I think that instead of measuring dropped calls they should measure dropped calls per hour of talk time, which would help normalize the data. For example, I only use my cell phone for calls that are under a minute or two.

Even so, this is far better than this old story where iPhones in NY had a 30% drop rate.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[daver00]

I agree with you, but I have one bone to pick: Love it or hate it, Windows is highly customisable, with a high number of power tools for the advanced user. Very few linux afficionados ever use windows enough to figure this out, but it is true. You can tailor windows to about the same level as you can tailor a linux distro, barring outright kernel modding and changing of source code. I know the registry is a pile of shit, but it is a power tool, windows now has powershell which by all accounts is as powerful as bash, windows has a whole host of command line tools for alls sorts of functionality similar to linux. Windows is even POSIX compliant. Love it or hate it, windows belongs in your second category without a doubt, and really this is why it is so popular as a business platform.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[daver00]

I don't see how anyone could have an issue with Jobs's response.

What? He ducked any explanation whatsoever, claimed outright that it is the same issue that is faced by any smart phone, presented no solution to the problem and offered free cases to shut everyone up. They made every attempt to keep this thing under wraps, and do nothing about it! It is clearly NOT the same problem as other smartphones, no other smartphone has two antennas with exposed conductive surfaces on the outside of the device. No other smartphone loses as much signal as the iPhone 4 when held. No other smartphone will lose that much signal just by touching one exact spot.

It was more lies! How could you NOT be pissed off about that press conference?

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[daver00]

1: Offer an explanation of their perception of the issues which have come out of this, backed up by statistics.

No they did not. They just circled a spot on the phone and said: "magic no signal spot", they showed how if you death grip other smartphones they degrade, implying this is the same issue as they have (ie rf absorbtion by the body, which it is not), and they did not answer a question about why with the iPhone it can be done with just a touch of the finger, not a death grip. There was absolutely no technical explanation as to what the problem is, none whatsoever, and they stated outright they have no intention to do anything about it, barring the free cases (OTHER manufacturers cases, not bumpers).

Other companies have acted like this: Toyota notably with its recent problems, and they were criticised for their behaviour, so should Apple be criticised. Jesus dude get off the kool-aid.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[daver00]

I want them to say the following:

"We admit that putting a conductive antenna surface on the exterior of a hand-held device was a dumb idea, and we are going to put a clear non conductive coating on it or shoehorn a better antenna somewhere inside the device."

And:

"We admit that for the last number of years, we have frequently lied outright to our customers and the general public about our products and engineering. We have repeatedly claimed to have invented many new technologies which we actually purchased off the shelf or just copied from a competitor without credit. We apologise for our frivolous and vague UI patents, and using them to attack other companies. For our endless lies we are sorry, we will stop claiming to be magical fairy engineers who can do the impossible and just shut up now and stop lying. And we are really, really sorry about Steve Jobs, seriously, that guy pisses us off too, we're taking care of it."

Yep, then I'd be happy.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[daver00]

No, he said: "Theres a problem, we want to fix it, heres how...", followed by an announcement that there will be free cases. There was no announcement about a fix, in fact they ruled out doing anything about it. Yes, he said he wants to fix it, but what he actually announced was that they were not going to fix it. It was: You're holding it wrong, just wrapped up in a shiny press conference with their fucking iPowerPoint and black curtains and Steve's turtleneck.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Anonymous Coward]

No,no the round corners are to make it fit more comfortably in the owners ass. It's a feature not a bug!

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[tftp]

even to an outsider it's obvious they came up with this antenna design to *improve* reception.

I do RF design, and occasionally I design simple antennas. There is no way I'd recommend to build an antenna that would be randomly touched by people. Here is why.

Your typical 1/4 wavelength radiator is able to convert impedance approximately from zero to infinity. This means that you have high current at one end and high voltage on the other end. The current is OK. However the voltage can burn people! I had a few burns from low power output stages simply because the output impedance was set to be high. It's not like a 120V AC shock, it's like a small arc. If such an antenna is exposed, you can burn yourself by touching *some* areas of it. Antennas of higher power transmitters can be very dangerous, both field-wise and voltage-wise.

Another problem is that if you touch the antenna you introduce a fairly large capacitance (hundreds of pF) into a system that lives and dies on a few pF. Remember the impedance translation - if you touch the antenna in one place it will have a different effect than touching it in another place. If the antenna is designed to work in open space it will not perform the same when parts of it are loaded with random capacitors.

It is true that all cell phones are in some degree sensitive to placement of hands. Those are small devices, with small antennas, and as a rule of thumb a small antenna is bad news. But designers try to put some distance between the radiator and the hand; the plastic case often does enough separation so the effects are minor. Notably, we never heard (until now) about a cell phone that loses signal when held in a usual way. Sure, phone manufacturers put disclaimers into manuals, but the facts on the ground are simple - you buy a garden variety phone, hold it however you want, and it works well enough. In this case, however, there is no separation between the antenna and the hand; and not only the main antenna gets loaded, it is also bridged with another antenna that may or may not be transmitting at the same time!

I'm sure Apple engineers had their reasons to do what they did. The iPhone 4 is a great product, it's just the users who spoil its beauty by insisting that it must work not worse than every other cell phone on the market.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[MojoStan]

This whole press conference was weird, including the errors in the slides he was showing...

You don't know just HOW weird it was until you've seen/heard the video/song that Apple played at the press conference as Steve took the stage:

• The iPhone Antenna Song

If you don't want to click a YouTube link, it's a cringe-worthy song by a self-described "huge, huge Apple fan". The Engadget live blog commented on how weird that moment was ("Oh my." "Wow."), but you really need to see and hear it to get the full brain-shrinking experience.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[vakuona]

Way to construct a strawman! People bought iPhones because they enabled them to do more with fewer "features". That is the essence of "less is more". The only significant missing features on the original iPhone for me were 3G and, in retrospect, the lack of an app store. People are voting with their wallets and handing money over to apple at a record clip. Apple is obviously doing Many things right. Apple don't treat their customers like idiots. They understand their target customers very well, and produce products that largely meet their needs better than the competition.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Anonymous Coward]

SilentCoder: Apple makes software for a living. If they give software to you for free, how do they pay their bills? If you refuse to pay for software, then you are not their target customer. Just stick to your FSF software and hardware. Apple has been in this business for 34 years. Do you think they are going away just because they don't have you as a customer?

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[silentcoder]

All fair and well - but the second half of my post had nothing to do with that - it was a neutral assessment of apple's position vis-a-vis MOST people.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[silentcoder]

I actually tend to agree. That's why I had trouble deciding where to put it. Windows was definitely started in category one, but has been gradually shifting ever more towards category two. The interesting thing is - the fact that Microsoft has had to do so in order to please their customers is strong evidence of the point I'm trying to make.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[vakuona]

That's not a position held by most people. Most people would probably like to buy Apple products but they are generally expensive. And Apple is doing very well, as are many companies making proprietary products (Microsoft, Google, Yahoo, Nokia) and not many are making a lot of money using open source technology/software. The new iPhone just sold 3 million in 3 weeks, 3 times more than the original was able to in 70 days. It has sold faster, and is being returned at a slower rate. That is proof positive that your assertions are not being supported by facts. Fact is,even on Consumer Reports, a neutral site, iPhones are reported to have the highest satisfaction levels of smartphones. So this future you are talking about is not looking more likely just yet.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[mitchells00]

So your completely scientific safe-to-assume's, more-likely's, and other speculative commentary are a more authoritative way to judge the scope of this problem than Apple & ATT's real-world usage data.

Statistics != science. Spisska merely pointed out how the figures could be, and in a lot of cases were, misconstrued to put the company in a more positive light. You can't say they didn't, any company would in their position! It's called marketing.

Point 1, Spisska demonstrates how the comparison between signal attenuation due to hand position and completely shorting the areal due to bad engineering.

Point 2, Spisska was pointing out the use of positive language to soften statistics like "less than 1 in 100", then comparing it to another iPhone, when in other cases it is compared with a wider range of models outside of apple.

Point 3, Spisska made a very important point, that statistics NOT from an independent source are not to be trusted, for (I hope) obvious reasons. If it's not obvious, then, no matter how conspiracy-theory-sounding it is, you need to open your eyes and realise that profit-focused corporations will do anything to make profit.

Point 4, Again, amount of people called != amount of people having the problem. Also, with the promised software fix, this number could be severely affected. People could be influenced by the placebo effect, or they could be patiently waiting for the problem to be really solved. The amount of press the issue has gained would (in this case) falsely assure people Apple are aware of the problem, and having faith in media pressure, expect the issue to be resolved soon.

Point 5 basically says that production numbers does not excuse engineering faults.

tl;dr:
There was no "safe assuming", no "more likely's", nor did Spisska claim to be authoritative. Speculative commentary has always been and always will be a GOOD thing, and again you cannot trust data from any company about itself... independent review (like that of consumer reports) is the closest we'll ever have.

If you want to try and refute something someone has siad, try and actually addressing what they said rather than make baseless assertions. Luckily, not everyone is as blindly dimwitted as you.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[silentcoder]

Windows used to be praised for it's simplicity. The last few years microsoft has had to add power all the time - real power tools. Powershell and the like because users didn't WANT simple in the long run.

I said in my very post that the simplified-product approach always sells best IN THE SHORT TERM. the entire smartphone MARKET is still in it's infancy. We won't see users beginning to demand more power and customizability yet because most of them are overwhelmed even by the simplified stuff.

The problem with the apple approach is - it gives you a very flat initial learning curve, but as soon as your needs expand (which happens BY DEFAULT - people get better and less nervous around new technology and start seeing things they wish they could do) - the curve goes up VERY sharply, often all the way to 90 degrees.
That is to say - it simply CANNOT be done.

You need category two from then on. The second variety has a high initial learning curve, once you round it however, it becomes flat, and no matter how complex your needs, it's ALWAYS simple to add the small skill you need on top.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[ahankinson]

I'm sorry - you lost me.

1/100 = 1% of phone calls are dropped with the 3GS. 2/100 = 2% of phone calls are dropped with the 4. Saying it's a "doubling" of the number of dropped calls is misleading - the ratio of a 1% difference scales linearly through the range. If the 3GS dropped 50/100 calls, then the iphone 4 would only drop 51/100 - a 1% change, not a 50% change. So when the ratios are low, it's a problem with the design of the phone, but when we imagine numbers that make the problem look much better for the phone model, it's a problem with the network?

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[vague disclaimer]

When did you first notice that you are retarded?

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[nessus42]

Wow, way to buy into all the marketing speak.

Wow, way to buy into the FUD!

I own an iPhone 4. In general, the reception is worlds better than it was for my previous iPhone (a 3G).

It is indeed the case that if I hold the phone the way that I might prefer, the reception is only as good as it was on my previous iPhone. Are people really serious that Apple was somehow deficient in selling me a phone where I can now get much better reception than I used to?

|>ouglas

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[daver00]

Ok, my second jibe was pretty retarded I'll give you that, but honestly what is unreasonable about expecting them to admit to the actual problem here?

Everyone seems to have figured this out (barring the true believers of course), it makes perfect scientific sense that exposed conductive antennas might you know, conduct when touched. Why is it unreasonable to expect Apple to admit this is the case?

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[toddestan]

The most damning part to me is the admission that they measure dropped calls in # per 100. By their own admission, the iPhone 4 drops at least 1 in 100 calls, and that's the best case scenario (where the 3GS drops no calls). Now I don't have a smart phone, but my experience with cheap, basic phones is that none of ones I've owned are that terrible.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[c 0xFF]

I do not own an iPhone, nor any other smart phone ... mostly because it doesn't fit my lifestyle currently (I barely use the cell phone I have), which means I can't justify it financially.

However, I do have a couple Apple products, and I'll use them when they fit my needs. I don't buy them because they're "cool" but because they're the right device for the right time. And when it's not the right device, well ... see above.

I can't speak for anybody else, but my problem isn't with Apple itself, but with poor management in general. I've been burned too many times by poor management (who immediately get awards and promotions, of course) that I really, really want them to get slapped around every now and again.

Of course, that doesn't change your point. My ranting doesn't change my status as a customer one bit, so why should Apple care, in the end?

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[MassacrE]

It’s not just that the bars are not a standard unit of measurement, but they are not necessarily even measuring the right thing.

Just measuring the strength of the signal does not take into account the amount of noise in the signal, which is arguably more important. The signal strength also only measures one side of the equation, being the cell tower to the phone. Finally, a raw measure of signal strength ignores that different antenna designs and phones may have different lower bounds where they can still make and maintain a call.

I just accept bars for what they are - an indicator of how likely it is that you will be able to make and maintain a call. Trying to compare ‘bar’ measurements between phones may not even work between models by the same vendor.

Apple’s big problems with the iPhone 4 is that they had their scale really messed up, and that became really obvious because the new antenna design shows a greater degree of worst-case attenuation than their previous models. As a result, it was possible to go from five bars to one bar when you attenuate the antenna in an area with only moderate signal strength - because it was reporting moderate signals with five bars

Ironically, the new scale for the bars is way more useful for people because it has grown considerably wider - but Apple will probably have a drop in customer satisfaction because people will assume fewer displayed bars indicates the phone is lousy at picking up the signal.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[vague disclaimer]

Apple hasn't denied it is the case.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[daver00]

By claiming that their competitors, with insulated antennas instead of exposed ones, have the same problem, yes they have pretty much denied that the exposed antenna is the issue.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[vague disclaimer]

So the slide with the bridging point circled and the words "weak spot" pointing to it doesn't count?

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Americano]

I'm sorry, apparently you weren't able to read Spisska's actual post while you were fellating him.

tl;dr:
There was no "safe assuming", no "more likely's", nor did Spisska claim to be authoritative.

Spisska wrote:
"No way to verify the figure... "
"it's safe to assume that... "
"Only a small fraction of people would ever call Apple support about this."
"They'd be more likely to blame ATT, or to accept that the iphone just has poor reception."

He is attempting to speak authoritatively on the subject by waving his hands around and making wildly speculative assertions with no data to back them up. In fact, he used the EXACT WORDS "safe to assume" and "more likely" in his attempt to sound authoritative. Making up scenarios that are likely to map well to your own biases simply exposes your own biases, it's not a way to "provide independent review."

TL;DR - Spisska could have benefited from your advice more than I could have:

If you want to try and refute something someone has siad, try and actually addressing what they said rather than make baseless assertions.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Americano]

Yes, he did say "safe to assume". And "more likely" was in the context of "Only a small fraction of people would ever call Apple support about this - they'd be more likely to blame ATT, or to accept that the iphone just has poor reception."

Why is it sufficient for him to make wildly speculative assertions with no data to back them up (how does he know that users are "more likely" to do this, exactly? How much "more likely" are they to do this if they do?), but it's not sufficient for Apple and ATT to provide real world usage data that illustrates the actual scope of the issue?

Is it just because his speculation and supposition happen to agree with your biases, so you think it's "safe to assume" that he must be right, and insightful? Contradicting the data Apple & ATT shared in their press conference with "Nuh uh, they're fucking liars, and this problem is WAAAY worse than they're letting on because I feel like it must be," doesn't make a defensible point, it just makes you (and him) look like a bunch of jack-offs.

Re:I see a lot of denial in this post

[Chardish]

It was more lies! How could you NOT be pissed off about that press conference?

You, and much of the Internet population in general, are acting like there's some sort of massive scam taking place. Scams typically don't come with no-questions-asked money-back return policies. If I didn't like my iPhone, I'd take it back and get a refund. So could anyone else. It's not like anyone's being cheated out of their money here.

But don't let facts get in the way of your outrage over a device you don't own.

No surprise

[Monoman]

Pretty much what we would expect from any company in Apple's shoes. Damage control at minimum cost.

Apple's numbers are suspicious. Everyone I know with an iPhone 4 has the issue(s) but NONE of them have called AppleCare or gone to the Apple store to complain. They have all been patiently waiting for Apple to take care of them.

Re:No surprise

[Scragglykat]

I'm sure that's how most have dealt with the issue. They read online that the issue is "wide spread" so they assume others have reported in groves, and Apple will take the hint. Turns out, only the most vocal of people have reported it so Apple can spin that to their advantage with those lose report numbers. I don't fault Apple for this, as you don't want to come out and say, we goofed up on probably the biggest gadget to date, although I wasn't expecting them to take the time to research all the other phones that had a similar issue.

Re:No surprise

[GizmoToy]

That's key, and I don't see any way that they could have honestly believed that only 0.5% of their users were having trouble. They issued a press release saying they were going to work on a software update, and many were waiting for some kind of magic improvement.

My wife and I have both had problems, but neither contacted Apple Care. Apple Care was simply telling customers there was no problem, as they were instructed to do by Apple. This made it into the press and onto user forums. After that occurred, why would anyone go to Apple Care about this when they already knew what the result would be?!?

Re:No surprise

[whisper_jeff]

Apple's numbers are suspicious. Everyone I know with an iPhone 4 has the issue(s) but NONE of them have called AppleCare or gone to the Apple store to complain.

Unless you know hundreds of thousands of people, I'm going to trust AT&T and Apple's numbers, which cover _MILLIONS_ of users more than your anecdotal evidence covering, what, a half dozen?

Re:No surprise

[ThrowAwaySociety]

Everyone I know with an iPhone 4 has the issue(s) but NONE of them have called AppleCare or gone to the Apple store to complain. They have all been patiently waiting for Apple to take care of them.

In other words, thave unrealistic expectations about their partner's emotional sensitivity.

"Why haven't you fixed the issues I haven't told you I'm experiencing?"

Re:No surprise

[Americano]

Really, and is AT&T not logging your friends' dropped calls too, like they do with every dropped call on their network? Or are they just not making or receiving calls at all because the problem is so horrible for them that they just can't get a connection, and "waiting patiently" for someone to come fix their phone?

Signal attenuation due to grip is a more pronounced problem with this antenna design than with other phones. But the question is - does it matter at all, and is it impacting the day-to-day usage of most people? And the answer to that question is that it is not actually dramatically impacting most users.

Re:No surprise

[Cogneato]

Damage control at minimum cost.

It's a good thing that no one here on /. ever posted in the last few weeks demanding that apple give out free cases, otherwise they'd have admit that apple met their demands and then shut the hell up.

God bless selective memory.

Re:No surprise

[ceraphis]

You say damage control at minimum cost, but in my experience, they already have the best warranty I've ever personally experienced. With even seemingly minor problems in the past with macbooks and iphones and the like, they make you jump through a hoop or two but if you're even slightly determined, you can get a replacement with as little as two visits to the apple store at any time during the first year that you get a free year of applecare.

With as easy as it has been in the past for me to get replacements if I desired, expecting them to do a recall that amounts to "hey, everyone bring your phone back!" seems unnecessary. Let the hypochondriacs of the gadget world get their replacement as they always would have been able to, but let the people on the fence about it have a chance to realize it may not bother them. That seems best for everyone if you at least allow Apple a choice other than to just throw away much of the money they've recently earned creating a good smartphone by letting everyone who doesn't even have a problem get a new one "just because they told me I could".

Re:No surprise

[Anonymous Coward]

"Damage control at minimum cost."

Right - because offering a 100% refund means nothing. Get real.

Too many folks are spinning this as "all they did was offer a free case". They did far more than that. If you're not happy, you get your money back. What more can they be reasonable expected do?

Re:No surprise

[FatAlb3rt]

I don't think he was calling the actual numbers into question, rather, what Apple was implying with the numbers.

Re:No surprise

[natehoy]

That's key, and I don't see any way that they could have honestly believed that only 0.5% of their users were having trouble.

Let's be blunt here. The Steve knows the problem is bigger than 0.5%. The Steve is not stupid. He's a pretty smart guy.

But since only 0.5% of customers have gone to the trouble of saying they had a problem, he can freely use the accurate statistic that 0.5% of users reported problems and be absolutely, 100% correct. He is not misrepresenting the problem, he's quoting actual numbers of people who bothered to call in the problem.

My wife and I have both had problems, but neither contacted Apple Care.

And your inaction, even though you knew AppleCare wouldn't help you, provided The Steve with the number he was looking for. It justified delay on his part, marginalized the problem, and makes their issuance of cases look magnanimous rather than conciliatory.

Don't fail to vote then complain when a member of the party you don't like gets voted in.

If you have a problem, you should call AppleCare and log a complaint. If you and everyone else who could Death Grip their phones into submission had done so, The Steve couldn't brush it aside as an insignificant subset of his customer base, he'd know he had a really serious problem on his hands.

Suffering in silence is very nice and courteous and all that, but you are the customer here and if you have a problem it's your job to let the manufacturer know that you do, so they can make it right (even in cases when you know they won't).

Re:No surprise

[shutdown -p now]

Unless you know hundreds of thousands of people, I'm going to trust AT&T and Apple's numbers, which cover _MILLIONS_ of users more than your anecdotal evidence covering, what, a half dozen?

The whole point of GP's post is that Apple's numbers are users who complained to their support or tried a return. The numbers themselves are not suspect, but the relevance of this measurement definitely is.

Re:No surprise

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm going to trust AT&T and Apple

Good luck with that.

Re:No surprise

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple's numbers are suspicious. Everyone I know with an iPhone 4 has the issue(s) but NONE of them have called AppleCare or gone to the Apple store to complain.

Unless you know hundreds of thousands of people, I'm going to trust AT&T and Apple's numbers, which cover _MILLIONS_ of users more than your anecdotal evidence covering, what, a half dozen?

That's a flawed way of looking at it. Everyone I know with one has noticed the problem as well, and that's not even mentioning the problems with the face sensor with accidentally hanging up on people. Look at where Apple got their numbers - people who call in. Take a guess at what percentage of people have that problem are going to call Apple, especially when it's a VERY well known problem with how much the media has picked up on it... Maybe 20% will call? Probably more like 10% will call max. I know I wouldn't call.

You can bend statistics to mean whatever you want them to mean. You can't deny that this is a major problem - this is a bigger design problem than anything I can remember from a high-selling mobile device.

Re:No surprise

[c 0xFF]

I don't trust their numbers, either.

Yeah, they're probably biased ... but the bigger problem is that they simply can't collect the right statistic without going through some extreme measures.

What we really want to know is "is the signal attenuation a problem to you?" The numbers they gave don't answer that question. Now, had they given the results of a properly done survey, I might trust it more.

But even then, there's too much emotion involved to get any sort of feeling for just how many people are effected.

Re:No surprise

[Anonymous Coward]

I always wondered what Steve's /. name was... Now I know I guess.

Re:No surprise

[llamafirst]

Pretty much what we would expect from any company in Apple's shoes. Damage control at minimum cost.

Apple's numbers are suspicious. Everyone I know with an iPhone 4 has the issue(s) but NONE of them have called AppleCare or gone to the Apple store to complain. They have all been patiently waiting for Apple to take care of them.

I call shenanigans. Your numbers are even more suspicious than Apple's! So, you're saying that your prediction based on your data set is that all iPhone 4s have some deadline serious problem that destroys the ability for the phone to work? This is just implausible on the face of it. You're implying that 3 million out of 3 million phones have this issue?

How many of these people you know really had the "issue" of dropped calls, or did some of them just confirm that they can see bars go down when touching some parts? And for the record, that does NOT happen on my iPhone 4, and I've dared other people to try with my phone with their own hands.

I know several people with iPhone 4s, including myself, and NONE of them have *actually* reported more dropped calls in real life or dreadful data rates. My cell reception is surely better now than my iPhone 3G was in my area. And the times I had crappy coverage with the new phone it wasn't because of antenna touching -- i could put it on a table and see i had no reception no matter what! And one time it showed no coverage weirdly at home (while not touching it) and I had to restart the device. Lame, but probably fixable in a software update.

And I did the speedtest.net iPhone app tests and did it 3 or more times with each hand position and found no significant difference between holding the iphone in my left versus right hand (the AT&T network speed was very different each time, but the average was about the same).

Bottom line: the Anantech article seems basically right, and well researched, and matches my tests. YES, there is a loss in signal, but it starts at a higher point and the overall effect is that the iPhone does NOT have a big issue. And why all the fuss when you can get a bumper/case and it fixes even that mild issue in low signal areas if you really want to.

And because people keep posting falsehoods on Slashdot about this, WIRED did not rip them a new one over this. They mostly expounded on other people's complaints. What about their OWN tests at WIRED? Their summary of their own tests was "And in our own tests [...] the antenna problem is not especially serious .

Re:No surprise

[Americano]

Sorry, I know that rational discussion of an issue involving an apple product is impossible.

Short of Steve Jobs getting up on stage at a press event like this and saying, "Well we fucked up big time, we're closing the company and telling everybody to buy Android phones," I think most of the people sitting here bitching about the "lukewarm" response will never be satisfied.

Re:No surprise

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple's numbers are suspicious. Everyone I know with an iPhone 4 has the issue(s) but NONE of them have called AppleCare or gone to the Apple store to complain. They have all been patiently waiting for Apple to take care of them.

When you say everyone you know with an iPhone 4 has this issue, do you mean every one of them can reproduce the antenna dropped bars effect? Or do you mean that every one of them suffer from more dropped calls then they had on their previous phones? I'm sorry to say that EVERY iPhone 4 owner can reproduce the effect of dropping bars when holding the phone in a certain way. As can every BlackBerry Bold user.

At issue here is whether or not that means that the iPhone 4 has worse reception than it's predecessors. My experience suggests the opposite.

Re:No surprise

[sootman]

The plural of anecdote is not data. I know two people who went from a 3G or 3GS to a 4 and BOTH of them are in the camp of "wow, I didn't used to be able to make calls at home, now I can." And I've seen quite a few stories online with the same theme. As far as I can tell, Apple took 10 steps forward (reception is usually better) and one step back (it's occasionally worse.) But the squeaky wheels get the grease.

Re:No surprise

[flimflammer]

I'm still disappointed. They didn't really own up to it. They just couldn't do anything else or the bad press would get to be too great. They offered the cases, and then go on to say how all the other major players in the smartphone market have the exact same problems, when those problems aren't even close to the severity. Admitting personal fault just isn't something Apple can do. It's just "part of the smartphone life"

Re:No surprise

[LodCrappo]

maybe you missed this?

http://smallbusiness.aol.com/2010/07/06/the-iphone-is-ruining-my-life/

not such a small problem for the interviewed,

Re:No surprise

[Macrat]

Everyone I know with an iPhone 4 has the issue(s)

And everyone I know with an iPhone 4 has NOT had any issues and are wondering what all this fuss is about.

Re:No surprise

[Anonymous Coward]

They all tried to call AppleCare, but the calls were dropped for some reason.

Re:No surprise

[Anonymous Coward]

Just on the numbers. I have taken this from a post on the registre which is interesting:

El Reg fell for the dropped calls spin. Apple say they do not know or cannot repeat what ATT say how many calls they drop, but the i4 drops less than 1 call per hundred more than the i3.

Lets say it drops very nearly 1 call per 100 more.

So, if the i3/i3gs etc drop 10 calls in 100, then the i4 is 10% worse than the i3.

if the i3 drops 5 calls in 100, the i4 is 25% worse.

if the i3 drops 1 call in 100, the i4 is twice as bad

if the i3 drops 0.1 calls in 100, the i4 is ten times as bad.

now, I'm not saying that Apple are making the numbers up, but they chose to use stats that sound good but are meaningless. Where is The Under Cover Economist when you need him to explain bad statistics!!

Re:No surprise

[Moofie]

Well, they're in luck! Apple's taking care of them!

What's the problem again?

Re:No surprise

[Anonymous Coward]

so are you and your wife going to return your iphones? now that you know there is no sort of magical software update coming?

FIRST

[Anonymous Coward]

I would have been first but my touched my iphone in the wrong place.

Re:FIRST

[cobaltnova]

but my touched my iphone

Apparently your touch screen made it a little difficult to type as well.

So how bad was it?

[hkmwbz]

I'm not a big fan of Apple in general, but I don't know how big this problem actually is. Is it really worse than other smartphones? Apple is acknowledging that is there a problem, but is that because they got more flack for it than other phone manufacturers?

On the other hand, first acknowledging that there is a problem, and then making excuses about other smartphones if the iPhone 4 is indeed worse seems odd at best. Acceptance and denial at the same time?

And finally, what are these cases? One of the things that people find appealing about the iPhone is that it looks good. Will people suddenly find themselves with a much less good looking phone if they want a proper signal?

Re:So how bad was it?

[ashridah]

It seems like they're trying to cloud the issue, since there are two problems. One that all smartphones face: Your hand can capacitively interact with the antenna in the phone, and cause signal loss.
The other, that the Apple iphone 4 supposedly faces (And didn't in previous generations): bridging the gap between two different antennas causing noise to be effectively introduced to both, drastically reducing signal.

The thing is, you can trigger the latter problem without your hand being near it by using something metal to bridge the two antennas, I've seen that in action.

A Rubber bumper around the edge is enough to prevent problem two, and problem one just isn't as significant a loss, so it's acceptable.

Re:So how bad was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

It is as you said, damage control. There is more than enough empirical evidence (videos, AT&T's drop call/service issues with the iPhone, the wonky way the signal bars work in 4.0) to demonstrate that the iPhone4 is a weaker contender than competing phones when it comes to RF communication.

Re:So how bad was it?

[timster]

Well, I have one, and I don't use a case. I'm not sure if I can tell you how bad the problem really is, since I don't make many phone calls, and even though I do use my left hand when I do, my natural grip doesn't touch the weak spot.

Using data, it seems like it's slower when I touch the weak spot, so I don't do that. It's not my natural grip when using it for Web browsing either. And usually I'm using wi-fi anyway, in which case it doesn't seem to matter at all.

Not sure if that answers your question. I think it depends a lot on the user.

Re:So how bad was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

There's been tech sites that did comparisons with other smartphones. Yes, every phone has an issue to some extent, but iPhone 4 had the highest dB drop. It's definitely worse than "normal" (specs I saw was ~25% bigger dB drop on average I think), but Jobs wouldn't admit that.

Any nonconductive coating, whether a case or just an extra layer would help. From an aesthetics point of view, probably working out a thin clear caoting would be best. There's some cost/technical issues to work out on it though - lot harder than just slapping on a case.

Re:So how bad was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've got a Milestone (EU version of the Droid) and try as I might I can't make a single bar drop below the regular 3 bars (max 4) where I am right now. Looking at the signal level, the worst I can do is drop it to -93 dBm, when I'm basically enveloping the whole phone (minus front screen) with my somewhat sweaty palms.

So no, it's not even close to the iPhone 4 issue.

Re:So how bad was it?

[c 0xFF]

Third problem: how the bars are shown makes the attenuation even more noticeable to the user. How much of an issue would this have been with a different algorithm?

Re:So how bad was it?

[MozeeToby]

Well, someone was saying the iPhone shows a -24 dBm change when the phone is held from that spot. If true, that is significantly worse than my Droid, I see anywhere from 8-14 dBm drop holding it in my hand (in a variety of positions) compared to laying it flat on the table. How much difference that makes in the real world will depend on a lot of factors, especially what the signal strength was to start with. There's also the issue of attenuating the outgoing signal, which is much harder to measure without equipment; I would think it's inline with the amount of attenuation on the incoming signal, but I'm no antenna designer so I can't say for sure.

Re:So how bad was it?

[ceraphis]

That's all well and true but I believe the major point of the conference, that also happens to be a very good argument, is that there are so many improvements to the iphone formula since the 3GS and that the "major public backlash" that the media is portraying isn't reflected in the numbers. They even said if you don't prefer the way the new iphone does things, feel free to return it at no cost. They'll give you a free bumper if you like the phone other than the antenna bridging problem. Not only that, but the death grip as everyone loves to call it will destroy other popular phones just as easily.

They're making it painless for you to either accept that the bridging problem is there and deal with it (and get a complementary case to help) or you can wish you'd never have to deal with such crap and act as if you've never bought it. That sounds like a pretty good deal.

Would it really make it any better if they break out the phone and sit there with a knife showing how you can alter the signal while they are laughing at the bad hardware mistake? Would any company, anywhere with any product ever do something like that? I'm surprised they went as far as they did, showing the youtube video and even just admitting there is a problem.

Re:So how bad was it?

[rjstanford]

I've got a Milestone (EU version of the Droid) and try as I might I can't make a single bar drop below the regular 3 bars (max 4) where I am right now. Looking at the signal level, the worst I can do is drop it to -93 dBm, when I'm basically enveloping the whole phone (minus front screen) with my somewhat sweaty palms.

Your phone uses 3 bars to display -93dBm? Seriously?

The iPhone has more attenuation when squeezed than most phones. It also performs better at very low signal strength than most phones. It also had a ridiculously stupid graphical bar interface (now made more sensible).

One thing that this also points to is a need to move away from dBm meters to S/N meters... just as light bulb manufacturers are slowly moving away from Watts towards Lumens.

Re:So how bad was it?

[natehoy]

From a simple physics standpoint, yes, the Apple problem has the potential to be a lot worse than most other phones.

That's because the antenna conductor (metal) is physically accessible on the iPhone 4, meaning that attaching something conductive to it can actually change the physics of the antenna. With most other phones, the antenna is enclosed in a non-conductive material like plastic, so any signal loss is from blockage, reflection, or interference - you can't change the antenna characteristics directly. You can still screw up the signal, but generally to a far lower degree.

This is an anecdotal example, but illustrates why this (a) is a bigger problem, but (b) still isn't a problem for everyone.

My BlackBerry is set up to report signal in "db loss" rather than bars. As I understand it, 113db of signal is available from your average cell tower, but in order to hold a conversation I really need to have more than 15db (in other words, -100db is about my low limit for a comprehensible call)

I can attenuate my signal by about 5db by holding my phone wrong. In other words, if I'm in an area where my phone reads -95db, I can pretty much garble the crap out of a call by holding the phone wrong. At -105db, I don't try to get my hands near the phone (the call's going to suck anyway, but I can maintain a conversation as long as I use Bluetooth and keep my hands away).

Being in a rural area, -100db is not terribly unusual for me, and I do drop or garble calls occasionally by holding the phone wrong. Such is life in the quieter spaces of the world. I have a signal repeater in my house with a rooftop antenna, and I can maintain about -95db throughout the house, -80db in the kitchen where the repeater is located.

On the other hand, the iPhone 4 is supposed to experience a signal drop of about 27db. Honestly, I'm not often in areas where I could tolerate a 27db signal loss. To me, -85db (28db available) would be considered a "good" signal in most places. In other words, to me the "death grip" would be fatal almost anywhere I'm likely to use a phone.

On the other other hand, when I travel down to larger and more populated areas, I start to see numbers better than -70db (I even saw -45db the other day, which was astonishing to a hick like myself but is probably normal for city folk). At -70db, I'd have 43db left. Even if I lost 27db, I'd have 16db remaining, which is enough for a decent (if not perfect) call. I might or might not notice the loss. At -60db I wouldn't even know I was losing signal, nor would I care.

So, yes, the iPhone 4 problem is potentially far more serious than it is with all other phones, simply because the iPhone 4 is the only phone with an exposed-metal antenna that you can attenuate directly rather than just interfere with.

But it's honestly only a problem for you if you frequent areas where there isn't a lot of extra signal available. If you have a strong enough signal that a loss of 27db still leaves you with plenty of signal to maintain a call, then you'll never see a problem.

Re:So how bad was it?

[Kristoph]

I have an iPhone 4 and I can't reduce the bars while holding it (without a case) no matter how I hold it. Neither can anyone I know. Possibly we're in the wrong area or something but it's not an issue for any of us.

Frankly, the proximity sensor thing is more of a problem. I've muted people accidentally a few times.

Also, for the record, the iPhone 4 drops way less calls then the 3GS did.

Re:So how bad was it?

[natehoy]

I should also note that the introduction of the case, which is Steve's solution to the problem, simply puts the iPhone 4 on an even footing with all other phones that have their antennas enclosed in non-conductive material.

You will still be able to interfere with the signal indirectly by blocking or garbling signal to the antenna. You just won't be able to screw up the antenna characteristics by touching it directly any more.

Re:So how bad was it?

[Altus]

Apparently the iPhone 4 requires less signal to hold a call than a 3GS though so while the loss of signal may be more significant the actual impact on phone calls may not be. I don't know how its minimum signal strength compares to other phones on the market.

I know quite a few people with this phone (I do not own an iPhone) and while they can reproduce the bar dropping effect, none of them seem to be complaining about lost calls, but that might be a function of the network strength where I am.

Re:So how bad was it?

[teh31337one]

Methinks Apple used an algorithm that showed more bars, and changed it to a normal one after the iPhone 4 debacle. Methinks they knew all along that they were showing extra bars, but didn't want to change that, because everyone is happy thinking that their shiny iPhones have better reception than other devices

Re:So how bad was it?

[Jay L]

You've seen a piece of metal (without a hand) cause the iPhone 4's reception to drop?

That's exactly the Youtube video I've been waiting to see, and Apple's effectively claiming (by omission) that it doesn't happen. If you know someone who can reproduce it, you should film it and share it. Apple's dug pretty deep into "This is just like all other attentuation problems" now.

Re:So how bad was it?

[state*less]

I also have one, and I've both used a case and not. Like you, I do not make many calls on my iPhone. Mostly I use it for email, text messages, taking pictures and mapping. It does a great job at these tasks. I haven't experienced a dropped call, but I also don't hold the phone with my palm or finger bridging the gap in the lower left corner.

I put the bumper on. Like I said, I haven't experienced a dropped call, so I'm not sure what the bumper has done for me other than give me a little peace of mind.

Anyhow if you think it might be a problem put the bumper on, but you might not really need it.

Re:So how bad was it?

[MemoryDragon]

Well lets bring it to the point, they exposed the antenna because it looked so cool, now you have to be aware that any change in the impedance of that thing and in the resistance can alter your reception, now you touch it with your fingers and guess what your body is for the phone, another antenna docked onto the original one.
That does not mean you get better reception in about almost all cases your reception gets worse, you have basically shortcut the antenna.

I cannot imagine that there was no engineer which did not warn about this. but given apples track record of Steve Jobs not listening to his engineers because the solution would not look cool: http://lowendmac.com/b4mac/appleiii.html
I assume we have the apple 3 all over again.

Re:So how bad was it?

[snowwrestler]

Wait no longer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZUaZYFVv6I

The interesting thing to me is that WiFi signal actually gets stronger as the penny sits there.

This was an entertaining one

[Anonymous Coward]

From the Q/A:

10:41AM Q: I can't get my Bold to drop right now, maybe you can show me how to do it?
Steve: You may not see it in certain areas.

Re:This was an entertaining one

[pushing-robot]

Why? Covering most phones causes them to lose a certain amount of signal strength. In many phones the five- or four-bar zone covers a huge range. If you're at the strong end of the range, you could lose 20 decibels and not see the bars drop at all. If you're at the weak end of the range, it could drop down to one bar.

The moral: Don't trust bars.

Re:This was an entertaining one

[Anonymous Coward]

Modded overrated. Very few people can get their iphone4 to drop a call unless they go to a very-low-signal area too.

So what's your point? The same as his, that the problem has been severely overstated by the media and apple haters?

Re:This was an entertaining one

[OverlordQ]

10:11AM "The BlackBerry Bold 9700... let's see what happens when you hold it in a normal way... 5 bars... and now on holding the left side. The bars go down."

Yes, but 30 minutes earlier Apple just got done demo'ing how all phones have this problem. Strange how the signal magically improves so much in 30 minutes.

Re:This was an entertaining one

[c 0xFF]

The moral: Don't trust bars.

Jobs made this point by pointing out just how nonstandard the relationship is between bars and actual signal quality. Regardless, people have certain expectations on what the bars mean:

0 bars: no signal
1 bar: Can make a call, but it might drop if you move wrong
2 bars: OK connection, but don't go through a long underpass
3 bars: Steady connection, few problems if any
4+ bars: Great connection, no problems

The bars are a qualitative measurement, not quantitative.

Probably the biggest problem that with the iPhone was that someone could go from "Great connection" to "Might drop if I hop on one leg" just by holding it left-handed. Regardless of technical details, this is exactly why people made such a fuss.

The moral: make your bars trustworthy.

Re:This was an entertaining one

[pushing-robot]

They didn't hold up the phones in the conference center; they showed a video of it on screen. The video was almost certainly taken somewhere where signal strength was at the very low end of maximum bars; the same sort of location people are reporting problems with the iPhone 4. The conference center is at Apple's HQ and probably has fantastic coverage, so it's not surprising somebody in the room couldn't get their phone to drop below full bars.

Re:This was an entertaining one

[Wovel]

Apple in fact said it was in a weak signal area and that all were done in the same weak signal area..

At Least There's Discolsure for the Omnia

[Anonymous Coward]

At least my Omnia has a sticker that says "Don't hold the phone here or your reception will drop". It's called getting out in front of the problem even if you can't fix it.

What's that? You're breaking up!

[embolalia]

Only 0.55% have called in, because the rest can't get a signal.

Re:What's that? You're breaking up!

[ShecoDu]

64.5% iphone owners couldn't reach anybody because all the lines were busy.

Re:What's that? You're breaking up!

[ccoder]

Actually, 0.55% of the *EARLY SHIPMENTS* called in and returned their phone - to Applecare.  The dataset doesn't necessarily include all phones.

Re:What's that? You're breaking up!

[Anonymous Coward]

Haha. Real funny...

Re:What's that? You're breaking up!

[Wovel]

I received a call back from Apple care on the web site in 44 seconds two days ago...

An Embarrassment To Watch Unfold

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think I've ever been more sickened by computing company. Ever.

Let's just sum up Job's disgusting spiel:

* Smear other well designed phones that no one has ever had problems with

* Deny the well documented antenna design defect

* Offer silly bumpers for a problem he just claimed doesn't exist

Everyone knew this damage control press conference was going to be bad. But this was beyond anyone's most outlandish predictions about the lengths Jobs would go avoid taking responsibility for the PIECE OF SHIT iPhone 4.

Smear other company's cellphones Jobs? Really? My god...

Re:An Embarrassment To Watch Unfold

[rinoid]

You must not own an iPhone 4?

Seriously, get a life. I know this is /. but come on, lose the hate or you will die very young.

Re:An Embarrassment To Watch Unfold

[Kristoph]

Dude, honestly, Jobs - the CEO of the company - said he was 'truly sorry' that anyone experienced problems, he offered a solution by offering a free $29 product, and he said that anyone not happy with that solution can have all their money back (up to and including contract cancellation).

What more do you want?

Less than 1 is an increase of what percent?

[Anonymous Coward]

"The iPhone 4 drops an average of less than one additional call per hundred than the 3GS."

Okay, so how many calls per hundred is the 3GS dropping. If the 3GS drops two calls per hundred and the iPhone 4 drops 2.8 calls per hundred then that would indicate the iPhone 4 drop rate is over 70% higher than the 3GS. We need more data than "less than one additional call per hundred" for it to mean anything.

Re:Less than 1 is an increase of what percent?

[aardwolf64]

3GS: 99.2% of calls dropped
4: 99.9% of calls dropped

So a very low increase percentage-wise... ;-)

Re:Less than 1 is an increase of what percent?

[Lunix Nutcase]

If the 3GS drops two calls per hundred and the iPhone 4 drops 2.8 calls per hundred then that would indicate the iPhone 4 drop rate is over 70% higher than the 3GS.

Fail at math much? 2.8 - 2 = .8 difference. .8/2 = .4 or 40% increase. Now you can say in this scenario that the 3GS only suffers 70% of the amount of dropped calls as the iPhone 4 but that isn't a 70% increase.

Re:Less than 1 is an increase of what percent?

[Anonymous Coward]

True that. Wrote it backwards. Point still remains. Thanks for the correction.

Re:Less than 1 is an increase of what percent?

[Anonymous Coward]

Indeed, it could be a lot worse. Maybe the 3Gs drops 0.001 calls per 100, and the 4 drops 1 call per 100.

Re:Less than 1 is an increase of what percent?

[Anonymous Coward]

IMHO, dropping one call per 100 is too much. I've never dropped a single call, being a GSM user for 8 years (in Brazil). That's tens of thousands of calls, not one drop. Just that "increase" in dropped calls would be too many dropped calls for me.

Granted, it looks like the situation is worse in the USA, but I thought the numbers would be way lower: a rate of maybe 1 drop per thousand calls. Now they're saying that an increase of 1/100 is small?! That's it: no iPhone for me, and no trips to the USA.

Re:Less than 1 is an increase of what percent?

[voidptr]

It's probably not quite a normal distribution for any particular person, but 5% dropped calls on the nationwide network may be reasonable.

I spend 99.9% of my time in high-signal areas and never drop a call. On the other hand, a friend who lives right on the edge of a coverage area (1 bar outside their house, no bars most places inside) is going to drop a few in a hundred from time to time, along with anyone who spends a fair bit of time talking while commuting so they're in and out of coverage and doing multiple tower hand-offs frequently.

Denial? No. Stevie boy just knows his customers.

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple customers seem to like being treated like idiots.

Hey Steve,

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a Palm Pre, you insensitive clod!

Only .55%?

[Linux_ho]

He went on to say that only 0.55% of all iPhone 4 users have called in to complain about reception problems

Yet there's a suspiciously high number of calls on that line where the caller mumbles something incomprehensible and then hangs up.

Apple sermon

[arcite]

The Apple giveth.

The Apple taketh away.

And on the third week of the coming of the iphone 4 Jobs said it was good... And gave to all gifts of bumpers to yoke the strength of the signal bar.

And it was good.

So sayeth the wise Jobs.

Re:Apple sermon

[Anonymous Coward]

And Jobs shall be smote.

So sayeth the wise man living in his mom's basement.

Steve Jobs is such a sales whore

[Anonymous Coward]

Its all your fault users, oh wait its all other smartphones just as bad oh wait its not us its not us its not us

Sad, really

The others

[symes]

It kind of bugs me when people admit they have done something wrong but because other people also have problems then it is not that bad. Wonder what Jobs would say if there was a coding error in OS X? Doesn't matter 'cos MS do it all the time? It's the normalisation of mediocrity.

Re:The others

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

It kind of bugs me when people admit they have done something wrong but because other people also have problems then it is not that bad. Wonder what Jobs would say if there was a coding error in OS X? Doesn't matter 'cos MS do it all the time? It's the normalisation of mediocrity.

No, it's about pointing out media sensationalism.

Re:The others

[Anonymous Coward]

He wasn't saying they did something wrong, he was saying that all phones have that characteristic. Showing the videos of other phones doing the same thing is proof that they didn't do something wrong, they are just constrained by the laws of physics like every other company.

Re:The others

[david_thornley]

It kind of bugs me when there's a fairly common problem, and it gets swept up all out of proportion in one particular case. YMMV.

Re:The others

[Anonymous Coward]

Because the only valid sensationalism, is when it comes from the Jobs himself?

Re:The others

[dunezone]

No, it's about pointing out media sensationalism.

The primary feature of the phone is flawed. All they have to say is they made a mistake. The majority of this press conference was sugar coating a flaw which was probably known after the phones were through the manufacturing process.

Re:The others

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe if Apple wouldn't have used media sensationalism to hype their product in the first place, there wouldn't be such a backlash against unrealistic expectations. Apple's PR can be a double-edged sword....

Re:The others

[urbanriot]

My BlackBerry Bold 9700 does not have alleged signal issues and has been extremely reliable. I do not accept his deflection of blame, especially after 1 out of 1 friends I'd asked could reproduce the iPhone 4 issue. So far, 100% of the people I know with an iPhone 4 are experiencing the issue.

Re:The others

[LurkerXXX]

I thought it was hilarious that he said it 'iPhone 4 drops an average of less than one additional call per hundred than the 3GS.' My cell phone almost never drops calls. Certainly not one in a hundred to even start with. That's just sad.

Re:The others

[robmv]

They did something wrong, They launched the iPhone 4 saying that the new antenna was amazing and blows every other antenna they have done before (not exact words but you get the idea), then they show numbers, that if we trust them, those numbers says that they build an antenna that is a little worse than the iPhone 3G*, that is not a better antenna.

what's the moral of the story? when you sell something, do not overhype your product, and worse do not believe your own created media hype

Re:The others

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem is - although it's an issue, is it really a FLAW? Frankly, I'd say not. Never owned an iPhone, don't plan on owning an iPhone. I can see how if you happen to hold the phone the wrong way and lose signal, you're like "What the crap is wrong with this thing?"

I tend to say that about every phone and every piece of electronics I've ever owned or ever touched, and I'm pretty good with them. The thing is, you learn to work WITH a device. It looks to me that the iPhone 4 antenna has some pretty solid positive benefits, and this one gotcha. From a design perspective, I would have gone with a lacquer coating on the antenna - if I changed anything at all. Then people would have complained even more loudly when the lacquer wore off and the antenna bridging occurred. I believe they tried to prevent the problem with placement, but that could never be 100%.

I'd still take an iPhone 4 over anything else, but it's too expensive and too ATT only.

Re:The others

[bsDaemon]

Yeah, well... live by the sword, die by the sword. Maybe if they'd quit trying to talk about how "magical" and "revolutionary" their products are like some sort of techo-Goebbles then they wouldn't get their hype bubble busted.

Re:The others

[mbourgon]

Man, I'd love your coverage. There are two "dead zones" on the interstate between work and home, I'll lose calls in my neighborhood, and the occasional other spots. I'd say it's more like 5%, and that's both with AT&T and Sprint (different dead zones, interestingly enough).

Re:The others

[16K Ram Pack]

Exactly. People have studied how to do this stuff properly based on years of doing it. You don't do the sort of things that Jobs has just done.

Firstly, apologise. Secondly, what action are you going to take. Three, re-assure people you'll be checking the status personally. Four - take questions and be humble about it.

What Jobs has done is to leave the wound festering. He's just accused his audience of sensationalism, which is only going to piss them off. Maybe they were, but you don't do that. He's tried to deflect attention from Apple's problems by pointing elsewhere. You can only do that if you're small and have a hardcore fan base. When you're the 3rd biggest phone OS, you can't. You've got a lot of mainstream customers and you look like a jerk to them.

Re:The others

[Straif]

Except in every independent test the iPhone 4 signal drop is significantly higher than any other smartphone tested; often in the range of 3 or 4 times as much signal loss.

So yes, the laws of physics effect all antennas on all phones but due to poor design those affects are much more pronounced on iPhone 4s.

Re:The others

[rjstanford]

then they show numbers, that if we trust them, those numbers says that they build an antenna that is a little worse than the iPhone 3G*, that is not a better antenna.

Although to be fair, its an antenna that - when held a certain very specific and unusual way - is a little worse than the 3G, but when used in any other conceivable way is vastly superior. All in all, a pretty good step forward, as you might realize if you'd actually used both products for a significant amount of time..

Re:The others

[mebollocks]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque/

Re:The others

[Straif]

It's also a bit odd that Jobs actually has to stress "our new product is only worse than our old product by a factor of x" as a defense.

Since most other reviews I've seen say just how much better the reception is on the iPhone 4 compared to the 3gs (when not holding the phone in the 'wrong' way) if it loses more calls than it's predecessor than that would just go to stress how poorly the antenna design was. The external antenna screw up is essentially negating all other reception improvements and then some.

Re:The others

[ergo98]

Although to be fair, its an antenna that - when held a certain very specific and unusual way - is a little worse than the 3G, but when used in any other conceivable way is vastly superior.

Do you have actual metrics to back that up?

Straight from the horse's mouth, Steve said that the iPhone 4, with the "vastly superior" antenna, drops more calls than the 3GS. Clearly the holding technique isn't quite so unusual.

Apple's demonstration was unbelievably deceptive: They are implying that the problem is a death grip problem (which is actually usual). Steve went on to say that the 3GS had less dropped calls because people used a case, even though a case does absolutely nothing to stop the downsides of a death grip. The 3GS already, for all intents and purposes, HAD a case, so third party cases are irrelevant.

The problem is the external antenna, and a very casual, non-death grip causes the serious reception issue. There's a reason why no one else uses an external antenna anymore. Well, except for Apple who thought it looked cool. Only not so cool in a bumper.

Re:The others

[NotBornYesterday]

Wait, they had a video showing that all smartphones can have their antennae shorted out by a sweaty left palm? I must have missed that. Look, regardless of what design flaws others have, the Apple antenna design is flawed. By involving other smartphones, they are trying to draw fire away from themselves with a cheap stunt. What parent hasn't had one kid try to get out of trouble by pointing out how bad their sibling was? Anybody can see through it.

Re:The others

[Anonymous Coward]

The only "sensationalism" I've seen here was when Jobs said it would be a good idea to put two independent antennas on the outside of the phone, with a sum-millimeter gap between them. Anyone with some basic notions of electromagnetism facepalmed at the same time.

Now they spin it completely, as if the interference between the two antennas were the same thing as the natural signal obstruction you get when you hold your phone around the antenna. On my old Nokia I can make the signal drop by 15 dBm (measured by PhoNetInfo) if I cup the phone tightly around the antenna area; on the iPhone4, AnandTech measured a drop of 24 dBm just by holding the phone. That's unacceptable.

Re:The others

[awyeah]

The worst part is, it's the iPhone itself. My BlackBerrys didn't even come close to dropping the number of calls that my iPhone (3GS) now drops. It's not a huge number, but it is certainly more noticeable. It's not like any of my habits have changed either. People blame it on AT&T... I blame it on the phone.

Re:The others

[silentcoder]

>It kind of bugs me when there's a fairly common problem, and it gets swept up all out of proportion in one particular case. YMMV.

Is it though ? I've never had it on my HTC desire. Assuming every phone has a bad spot where you can reduce signal - okay, I'll bite it makes sense that it would be the case. But that doesn't mean it's the same problem. Apple's problem is they built the phone so that, that bad spot is in an area where the phone is held by LOTS of people ALL the time. Most notably it is directly where most left-handed people will hold the phone making them particularly impacted (and raising the question: did apple not test the device with any left handed users - they ARE 25% odd of the worlds population after all).

Apple's video is unclear here - I can't be utterly sure - but it looks to me like those other phones have to be held quite weirdly to hit the spot. Almost as if the phone designers had made a point to keep the antenna's sensitive areas away from where the user's hand will typically be. Apple on the other hand put it where it directly affects 25% of all people all the time and a significant number of the rest on a regular basis.

If that's the case then this problem IS an apple fault and was NOT overblown.

Re:The others

[guruevi]

On the other hand, where I lived, AT&T dropped 80% of the calls because I was on the edge of their tower range (although there were a couple dozen houses down the street where there was no coverage for over a mile). I then moved (to the city) and AT&T dropped only 20% of my calls. Whenever I called I could be almost certain to get either some static (interference) throughout the call or a dropped call. I had 5 phones in that period and they all did the same thing - I would put it on speakerphone because if I grabbed it I was sure to drop the call (as anyone who understands physics can agree with).

So I initially got one from the network, later on provided my own phone and for the privilege of being out of range half of the time I was still being charged $100/month.

AT&T is just a bad network and I recently dropped my contract with them and I'm not signing up for ANY cell phone provider in the US. My reason for not signing up is because they either do not support GSM (which is a must for international travel or wanting to buy your own phone) or they suck worse than AT&T. AT&T is the best network in the US for business customers but the worst network compared to providers abroad.

Re:The others

[Chardish]

There was a coding error with the signal bar graph. They admitted it, and fixed it.

Re:The others

[Altus]

Really? I have an old dumb phone on verizon which is supposed to be the best for coverage in the US and I drop a call every couple of days. That's in a major metropolitan area.

Maybe I would have better luck if I bought a new phone.

Re:The others

[canajin56]

I think the drop rate that AT&T is BRAGGING about in the iPhone 3GS, is "only" 30% of all calls are dropped.

Re:The others

[dward90]

You misunderstand the device. The primary feature of an iPhone is the fact that it is called an "iPhone". Making calls and using the device are secondary features to its branding.

Re:The others

[Anonymous Coward]

' My cell phone almost never drops calls. Certainly not one in a hundred to even start with. That's just sad.

Huh, what a coincidence, I've dropped exactly one call with my iPhone since I got it, around a year ago.

It's almost like there are different factors that affect how often you drop calls.

Re:The others

[jacob1984]

With respect, I think you missed his point. Specifically, Job's contention is that it's the nature of the beast; there is no real way to stop it. Though I have an iPhone 4 and can't replicate the issue for the life of me, it's still a bullshit argument.

Re:The others

[thoromyr]

the primary feature? really. Oh, that's right. It turns out the Retina display really *is* so good that at normal viewing distance you can't distinguish pixels. So now something else *has* to be the primary, highly touted feature that isn't real.

Your anti-Apple bias is showing again.

Re:The others

[Anonymous Coward]

*Sigh* We now live in a world where some blog can start a meme that, "ZOMG! Firing a nail from a Stanley nail gun into your forehead can kill you!!" And when the executives from Stanley try to ignore the obvious leaps in logic that resulted in this being a story, and then finally relent, hold a press conference, demonstrate to you that any manufacturer's nail gun can kill you when you fire it into your forehead, and that really, even though safety is a primary concern at Stanley, it's not the issue that the media is making it out to be.... then people will criticize them for not being the one company that defies the laws of physics and biology by making their product idiot-proof.

You don't get it. This isn't a coding error. This is the fact of phone antennas. EVERY phone maker has this issue. You expect them to apologize for it and solve it because the media isn't paying attention to any other manufacturer's identical issue? Biased much?

Re:The others

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly. I'm not engineer but I'm thinking they can coat the antenna surface to correct the problem. Does anyone know if anodizing or powder coating the exposed antenna surfaces would correct the issue and not degrade reception?

It is still bothersome that they have knowingly been using an algorithm for the bars display to make their phones appear as if they are getting better reception than they actually are. Definitely a deceptive move on their part but is it enough to warrant a class action suit?

Re:The others

[natehoy]

True, but that's not "one additional call per 100" based on the cell phone you are using. If you're in a dead zone, it's likely that ANY phone would lose the call. That's what a dead zone is.

In your case, your dropped calls are explained by a dead zone. And they are in fact going to be in different places because cell companies don't always share towers. But you can predict them.

In the case of the iPhone 4, what Apple themselves are stating is that their new phone (paraphrased) "drops less than one call in a hundred MORE than our previous iPhone". And the iPhone 3GS doesn't exactly have a stellar reputation for maintaining good call connections. I've had 3GS-toting pals borrow my old Blackberry 8300 to make calls before, because I get good signal and they don't.

Don't get me wrong, the iPhone is drop-dead sexy and the UI is beautiful and it's all that. But it doesn't exactly have a reputation for being a stellar, umm, phone.

The iPhone 4's new groundbreaking antenna was supposed to fix all that, not make it (admittedly only a teeny bit) worse. But with a very large sample size of units in the wild, Apple isn't even trying to claim an improvement in dropped calls. They are trying to claim it's a minor problem because the problem isn't too much worse with the new phone than it already was with their own previous model. Where their previous models never really had a stellar reputation to start with.

Other than obvious cases like complete signal loss in known marginal areas, I have dropped maybe 5 calls in the 2 years I've owned my Blackberry for reasons I could not fully explain. An increase of "only one call in about 100 dropped" for me would be enough to return it.

Fortunately, in Apple's defense, they have obviously worked out a deal with AT&T where you can. And that's good news for their customers. They've also offered a solution that looks very likely to actually fix the problem. That's GREAT news.

But if I spent money to upgrade my phone to the latest version that was supposed to help with dropped calls, then was told that I shouldn't complain because the new phone I spent money on only made the problem a "little bit worse", I think my reaction would be somewhat short of unfettered joy. And I think that reaction is a rational, reasonable one.

Re:The others

[Bing Tsher E]

No, it's about pointing out media sensationalism.

Apple's entire corporate image is based on media sensationalism.

Re:The others

[Bing Tsher E]

Can you rewrite that and somehow merge in mention of 'Industrial Design'?

Also, pepper in some adjectives: fabulous. incredibly great. that kind of thing.

Don't worry about using 'Altivec' that's last decade's buzzword.

Re:The others

[Bing Tsher E]

Except in every independent test the iPhone 4 signal drop is significantly higher than any other smartphone tested; often in the range of 3 or 4 times as much signal loss.

Be careful, because decibels are logarithmic. '3 or 4 times' isn't a fair way to evaluate it. It's significantly more lossy, if the shown figures are correct.

Re:The others

[Bing Tsher E]

The 'coding error' made it look like the signal was stronger than it really was. Which is fine, and good marketing, as long as calls aren't dropped. In fact, the 'error' probably was one that the marketing guys would try to get removed from the bug-list because 'the coders have better things to work on than that.' However, now that calls are getting dropped a lot, they can roll it out as a 'whoops' to blame dropped calls on. Also, it provides a 'the software update will fix it' that allows them to keep selling the existing stock to anybody who they can find who will buy one of these things now.

Re:The others

[mandelbr0t]

techo-Goebbles

The best reference yet. I was just thinking about how technology reporting and reviewing has become a propaganda battle. So maybe the iPhone issue isn't as big as it's made out to be, but Jobs has been so disingenuous with his public relations, one has to wonder if he has something to hide. Of course, there are many other smartphone companies that benefit from the whole problem being hyped too. It is getting far too difficult to separate the politics from the technology.

Re:The others

[Anonymous Coward]

Compare it to rotational torque leading to skew. It's a fact of physics that occurs in all conventional (petrol engine, drive train) consumer vehicles to some degree, higher priced models tend to deal with it better. As with antenna signal degradation due to object proximity it's a problem that can be only be mitigated, not eliminated. No arguing that the iPhone 4's design make it worse if you hold it "wrong". Unbelievable Apple didn't at least consider the possibility that bridging the gap with one's hand might harm the signal and test for it.

Re:The others

[diamondsandrain]

That's the nature of a company like Apple. They live on hype. But when that hype causes them to get more flak than the average company for problems they bitch and whine. Its quite funny to watch of course. On CBC they specifically mentioned that you could forgo the special case and just wrap your iphone in duct tape. Wouldn't that be hilarious.

Re:The others

[macs4all]

My BlackBerry Bold 9700 does not have alleged signal issues and has been extremely reliable. I do not accept his deflection of blame, especially after 1 out of 1 friends I'd asked could reproduce the iPhone 4 issue. So far, 100% of the people I know with an iPhone 4 are experiencing the issue.

C'mon mods: INSIGHTFUL???

Maybe your BB, in your area, has no issues; but clearly Jobs isn't lying when he points out that other smartphones, even those WITHOUT "exposed" metal antennae, er, DO.

Re:The others

[Wovel]

And none of those people will ever be as successful as Jobs nor will any of them ever have a product that will be as successful as the iPhone 4 will continue to be.

Steve has been doing this a few years himself.

Re:The others

[Wovel]

It is entirely possible that difference in dropped calls is just all the lunatics trying to duplicate what they saw on the Internets. "Look Ma, I made the call drop" and then they will just not do that again.

Re:The others

[tclgeek]

It's not quite the same thing. It's more like the CEO of a car company saying "all cars allow some road noise in, it's a problem for the whole industry". It's not so much that Apple has done anything wrong, but more like they've failed to fully solve a problem that everyone else has also failed to solve.

Re:The others

[PerfectlyAggressive]

Sure its an i"Phone" but is the primary feature of this device a phone? Not for me it isn't. I take maybe a total of 5 calls/week on my 3GS. The primary feature for me is email, followed closely by texting, then mp3, then a few time wasting apps... I wonder how many people actually rely on the voice part of their "phone"? My thoughts if anyone cares.... If your going to try and "tough it out" and complain but still have your iPhone4 in hand hoping for a forced recall or payout of some class action suit... go ahead and wait. Apple has already given the green light for you to voluntarily submit to a recall. (bring it back to the apple store, full refund). IF (and it is a REALLY BIG IF) there is a lawsuit won over apple you will have the opportunity to turn in your phone and get an amount equal to your original purchase price. (full refund.) Steve admitted there was a problem, all phones have problems, not just the smart ones. I can believe this easily as I sell phones all day long and when my customers ask "what has the best signal?" my best and most honest answer is "they are all about the same, its really the network that has effect on signal." now that may be due to network strength or it may be due to your location in relation to the nearest tower, both distance and obstructions in mind. I am in Alberta, Canada. I would argue with anyone that we have THE BEST cellular network in the world with the highest amount of coverage. Period. Both with CDMA and HSPA+ (3.5G) Telus, Bell and Virgin. Rogers not so much as they are focused more on major urban centers. I've got a two week wait to get my hands on an iPhone4. I will have them for Telus, Bell and Virgin. I will be upgrading my 3GS to a 4, with the first one to roll into the door. I upgraded to the 3GS from a Blackberry Storm. When I had the storm and used it it my most favored daily use position (landscape) It was the "death grip" My bars went from 5 to 0 or 1. 3gs.... dont have that problem, no matter how hard I try. both phones are in Otterbox Defender cases as i am hard on shit. which brings me to .... free case from apple, fixes "death grip" get one. be happy. same people arguing about function over form are the same ones that are arguing "ive got an iphone4, why should i cover it up?" A: function over form. When this thing reaches Canada we will see if it truely is a design issue or if its a network issue. and yes, im a Fanboy. Why? because of the many apple products i have purchased and been satisfied with. also because of the non-apple products I bought and have been unsatisfied with and then wished I had bought apple. Last time i replaced my apple computer - 2005, time before - 1999. Non apple computer - 2009, 2007, 2006(x3), 2004,2002,2000... Getting the Picture? anyways. everyone will do as they will. just don't complain anymore. Get your free case and be happy because it will fix it, or bring it back and get yourself a phone that fills your needs perfectly. end

Re:The others

[Anonymous Coward]

the normalisation of mediocrity.

Isn't that kind of redundant?

Mediocre: "Ordinary: not extraordinary; not special, exceptional, or great; of medium quality;"

This is how it works.

[UninformedCoward]

Only 0.55% of iPhone 4 owners have called in about reception issues, he said.

I wonder why...

Re:This is how it works.

[Bing Tsher E]

There's a native FarmVille app for the iPhone OS now. Many customers probably don't even notice now whether they have cell reception or not. As long as their wifi connection is working.

new marketing slogan

[postmortem]

iPhone 4 - first really safe phone - now comes with bumper!

Re:new marketing slogan

[Anonymous Coward]

iPhone 4 - first really safe phone - now comes with fender !

There fixed that for ya^H^H our cousins across the pond.

Free cases are nice but...

[Anonymous Coward]

it is royally pissing me off to be sitting on the iWaitingList at multiple stores for 3 weeks, only to find out they arn't shipping any new iPhones out until August. And, i'm not going to pay twice the price for one on eBay either.

What the hell, Steve?

[iLoveLamp]

You justify your phone having issues by basically saying that other phones are poorly designed too? That's not thinking different. That's thinking like a politician. What a great solution too. Here is our brand new super thin phone that has reception problems. Here a thick case to wrap around the phone to fix that. Gee, thanks Steve.

Re:What the hell, Steve?

[greyhueofdoubt]

fwiw, the case in question only covers the circumference of the phone. It adds a few mm to the x and y measurements, nothing to the z. So your thin phone is still thin.

-b

Re:What the hell, Steve?

[wfolta]

"Poorly designed" or "subject to the laws of physics"?

Re:What the hell, Steve?

[Anonymous Coward]

But now it has an ugly strip round the edge. I've never used a case on a phone because they usually spoil the aesthetics; I wonder if people could get a refund if the handset doesn't work as sold.

Re:What the hell, Steve?

[mini me]

Apple has said since day one of this problem that if you do not like your phone, you are free to return it with 30 days. Nobody has owned an iPhone 4 for more than 30 days yet. If this is really a problem, take it back and get a phone without the problems.

Re:What the hell, Steve?

[Mongoose Disciple]

That's a great solution unless you, say, got rid of your iPhone n-such-that-n-is-less-than-4 and signed a new contract to get a 4. Even if you get a full refund and out of the new contract, there isn't really any way to go back to 'previous phone and no longer stuck in a contract.'

That won't be everyone who bought an iPhone 4, but I bet it's a lot of people.

Re:What the hell, Steve?

[rjstanford]

I wonder if people could get a refund if the handset doesn't work as sold.

Sure can - you even get your upgradability eligibility back if you'd taken advantage of that offer from ATT.

What's the problem again?

Re:What the hell, Steve?

[NotBornYesterday]

Well, a clear epoxy coating on the antenna would have fixed this poor design inexpensively. That's still within the laws of physics, isn't it?

Re:What the hell, Steve?

[macs4all]

Well, a clear epoxy coating on the antenna would have fixed this poor design inexpensively

Citation, please?

Have you actually tried that? Because, speaking as an electrical engineer (but not an antenna designer) I don't think anything other than pure DISTANCE (which the rubber bumper neatly provides) will actually help all that much.

You do realize that your "clear epoxy coating" will start getting nasty looking in very short order. If you want insulation that is also rugged, look to an oxide-type coating, not some "paint" (which is effectively what an epoxy clear-coat is).

Re:What the hell, Steve?

[crossword.bob]

Well, a clear epoxy coating on the antenna would have fixed this poor design inexpensively. That's still within the laws of physics, isn't it?

No - that's resistance in a DC circuit that you're thinkng of. On an AC antenna it's impedance you need, and as that varies inversely with frequency, at phone frequencies you'd need a pretty specialist high impedance (low dielectric constant) coating, should a viable such exist (that I don't know; Anandtech tested with a specialist tape, and it helped---perhaps enough to bring it in line with other phones, but didn't eliminate it entirely, even wearing rubber gloves.).

You can read more about it in a post on my own (hobby - I don't stand to gain from hits) blog.

Re:What the hell, Steve?

[Anonymous Coward]

So, since Lord Jobs didn't consider the laws of physics in his design he's excused from it being a poor design? Huh?

Just keep drinking your kool-aid fanboi. We're all laughing at apologists like you. I guess it is a little better than what Steve did though...

Re:What the hell, Steve?

[NotBornYesterday]

Citation? 50% imagined/guessed/pulled out of my ass, and 50% read somewhere I can't remember, probably written by someone equally uninformed. So, bupkis.

I'm not an EE, so I'll take your word on things. That being said, I've heard of 3 factors in the antenna problem: a) software algorithm improperly displayed signal bars, fixed with update, b) hand position attenuating signal (ergo, rubber band -> distance might be helpful, as would different hand position), and c) hand contact shorting two adjacent uninsulated antennae. My "fix" was aimed at the last.

I'm not a chemical engineer either, so I'll gladly take your suggestion of oxide coatings over epoxy. My point was that there must be a solution to c) that is inexpensive and should have been readily apparent to the design team.

Re:What the hell, Steve?

[NotBornYesterday]

Good info. Thanks.

Re:What the hell, Steve?

[tftp]

Because, speaking as an electrical engineer (but not an antenna designer) I don't think anything other than pure DISTANCE (which the rubber bumper neatly provides) will actually help all that much.

Indeed, the vacuum (or at least air) is the best cure. A dielectric may actually make things worse. First, a dielectric with high permittivity will make the capacitance higher, so though your hand is now farther away it may affect the antenna more. Second, the dielectric will have losses in it, so an antenna shrouded in a dielectric may be not as good as one in free space. There are dielectrics suitable for encapsulation of antennas, but they are not of the kind that you spray onto stainless steel. If you get that far you probably want to redesign your whole phone enclosure - it will be cheaper, and will work better.

Re:What the hell, Steve?

[macs4all]

If you get that far you probably want to redesign your whole phone enclosure - it will be cheaper, and will work better.

I think that's what Apple will ultimately do.

I was thinking about how they could do this with the minimum impact on the hardware design and PC board layout (which is pretty complex in itself for a device like this), and still achieve a significant drop in the number of call-drops on the AT&T network ('m still not convinced that Apple could really come out and blame AT but see this report from Australia). So far, I haven't come up with a perfect solution (which is what everyone will want now, since the media spotlight will be trained like a LAY-ZER beam on ANYTHING they release that purports to permanently address this issue).

Re:What the hell, Steve?

[macs4all]

Um, that was supposed to be "blame AT&T", but my ampersand must've got eaten by the HTML parser, sorry!

iFanboys In Full Scale Damage Control Mode

[Anonymous Coward]

Red Alert! Red Alert!

All Hipster Douchebags fire up your accounts with mod points and bury the unbelievers!

"Low numbers of complaints and free cases"...

[Drakkenmensch]

... translates to "don't hold it that way" all over again.

lots of talk

[elbiatcho1]

Soooo much arrogance in the live blog.

Apple exec even stated (complained?) that he had to come from Hawaii to attend the event.

"As for investors, he wants investors for the long haul. No apology coming. If we hit a bump in the road, it's just like having kids, he jokes."

Re:lots of talk

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

"As for investors, he wants investors for the long haul. No apology coming. If we hit a bump in the road, it's just like having kids, he jokes."

While I think most of the dog and pony show -- erm, that is, press conference conference -- was crap, I agree with this statement. This is a bump in the road for long-term investors who have already seen meteoric rise in stock prices. And frankly, why would he give a shit about the short-term investors who did lose money? All they needed to do was hold onto the stock.

Re:lots of talk

[rinoid]

I hold AAPL (but not GOOG) and here is why:

http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=Logarithmic&chdeh=1&chfdeh=0&chdet=1279310400000&chddm=492269&chls=IntervalBasedLine&cmpto=NASDAQ:GOOG&cmptdms=0&q=NASDAQ:AAPL&ntsp=0

This investor does not require an apology for the investment has paid off handsomely.

Re:lots of talk

[Bing Tsher E]

This could take Apple down badly, you know.

The fact that dude-in-turtleneck actually had to come out and say 'sorry' is a sign of what a big deal it is.

Apple has already sold the iPhone 4's to every member of 'the faithful' and they won't sell many more if the public perception of their product sours badly.

It might even be time to short Apple stock. Certainly it's still okay to buy Apple PCs. You can install Windows on them no matter what happens to Apple down the road.

Re:lots of talk

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

I'm not sure it's as bad as that -- outside of the geek community (that is, most of iPhone's target market) this is barely a blip if they've even heard of it at all. It's kind of like DRM issues -- the people who are most vocal and passionate about it are usually the smallest minority; for the rest, they're usually not aware of the issue at all unless they're directly inconvenienced by it. (And even then they'll usually buy the manufacturer's line.)

WTF?

[Gudeldar]

Did Slashdot really just post some news within an hour of it actually happening? I think I may have clicked the wrong bookmark.

Re:WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

Did Slashdot really just post some news within an hour of it actually happening?

I think I may have clicked the wrong bookmark.

It's about The Steve TM. What did you expect?

Re:WTF?

[painandgreed]

Did Slashdot really just post some news within an hour of it actually happening? I think I may have clicked the wrong bookmark.

It's an Apple story. Apple media events get priority posting because with their walled garden approach, once its done, that's all there is to it but it's presented in a very professional manner. With Linux stories, everybody wants to review the text of the story first and perhaps rewrite it. With Microsoft stories, everybody is waiting for the first service pack before posting.

Re:WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

A+, would read again

OK, can we move on to other Apple bashing now?

[wfolta]

We now have 623 Boatloads of Internet Hysteria that were manufactured for the iPhone 4 and Apple and we're not sure what to do with it now. Maybe there's a future in "I'm an Android" t-shirts? Or "Your wimpy iPhone's a Walled Garden, but my Droid's unwalled-but-landmined", or something like that.

Re:OK, can we move on to other Apple bashing now?

[Anonymous Coward]

Long time Microsoft user here, laughing at your outrage over Apple being "unfairly" attacked.

You guys are #1 now, DEAL WITH IT.

Re:OK, can we move on to other Apple bashing now?

[shutdown -p now]

We now have 623 Boatloads of Internet Hysteria that were manufactured for the iPhone 4 and Apple and we're not sure what to do with it now.

Much like libertarian or creationist flamebaits, they can be inserted quite efficiently into seemingly unrelated discussions, quickly derailing them.

For example, let's say the topic is about some new Google service. Be sure to mention that it is not OSS, and go on to rant about how Google is freeriding on OSS in general and Linux in particular for a while. Bring up Android, mention its impending Tivoization, then move on to iPhone as the ultimate manifest of doom and gloom. Profit!

Re:OK, can we move on to other Apple bashing now?

[NotBornYesterday]

Sorry, man, you might be stuck with that for awhile. Put it over there next to the Kin phones.

Re:OK, can we move on to other Apple bashing now?

[Anonymous Coward]

Blackberry is #1 but it does not get attacked because they make phones that work properly.

Good idea?

[ceraphis]

I'm surprised that he didn't do something else like offer a gift card, but this seems reasonable. I'm sure anyone who's unhappy with the phone will be happy they don't get a restocking fee, and anyone who isn't crazily attached to using the phone naked will be happy with a free case.

Most of all, it was really nice to see them be upfront about it, and it sounds like they've been working pretty hard on it.

Any reason I should think otherwise?

Re:Good idea?

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

If by "up front" you mean it was nice of him to say there wasn't REALLY a problem while "proving" this with a rigged demo using other phones... then nope, no reason to think otherwise.

Re:Good idea?

[ceraphis]

I seriously doubt they would have rigged the demo, it would be way too easy for users of those phones to show how it doesn't happen on those phones at the same place as an iphone 4.

The big problem with the iphone 4 is they showed exactly where you could destroy the signal. Every other phone obfuscates this.

He did spin it a little, but the statistics of the unhappiness of iphone 4 consumers was very telling. Nobody seems to care as much as the media would have you believe. Take from that what you will but as long as you don't strangely think he's just making up the statistics too, it sounds like yet another case of the vocal minority that is a given for any tech device.

Re:Good idea?

[macs4all]

I'm surprised that he didn't do something else like offer a gift card, but this seems reasonable.

As it stands, I've heard that this could cost Apple $65 million for the "comped" bumpers.

Do you really think that HTC, Motorola or Blackberry would have even responded?

Not disagreeing with your post; I also think that Apple was really up-front about the issue, and took a very reasonable approach to an "instant fix".

What I couldn't fathom was the earlier internal memo (fake?) that supposedly told their tech-support people to NOT offer free bumpers. But maybe they saw that as an "admission of guilt", and wanted to stem the tide before they had actually had a chance to study the problem.

Re:Good idea?

[ceraphis]

I agree, I don't think the companies you mentioned would've done a damned thing. Maybe the tech support people were told not to offer the bumpers since they were going to give them for free anyway? That way they could have made more legitimate bumper sales to people who may not have realized they could come back to get a refund.

Re:Good idea?

[tftp]

I seriously doubt they would have rigged the demo, it would be way too easy for users of those phones to show how it doesn't happen on those phones at the same place as an iphone 4.

Yes, I can see now how a random citizen calls a nation-wide press conference and demonstrates that his personal phone works just fine. That would be Earth-shattering news. Besides, Apple won't disclose its testing conditions, or says that all testing was done on Apple's private property. Good luck getting into there.

The big problem with the iphone 4 is they showed exactly where you could destroy the signal. Every other phone obfuscates this.

It's not enough to obfuscate. There are billions of cell phone users out there. If their phones would have such an obvious defect, no obfuscation would be enough. And that's exactly how iPhone 4 defect was found - it's not like there was a sticker with words "Don't touch here."

The fact is that nearly all cell phones perform reasonably well even if gripped around the antenna. iPhone 4 is special because it has external antennas, and they are more susceptible to influence of the hand.

Nobody seems to care as much as the media would have you believe.

That may be true, but it tells plenty about the people who bought the iPhone 4. Perhaps they don't insist that their fashion accessory does anything useful?

Apple MacBook Display repair

[jtotheh]

My daughter has a Macbook, which she worships. A month or two ago, she damaged the screen on it. Nothing else was affected. I walked into an Apple store with it and was told

1. it'll cost $755 to repair
2. you need to make an appointment to speak to us,the next appointment is in 2 hours

These guys are supposedly providing the greatest consumer experience - I didn't think this was so great! The whole computer only cost $800!

We found instructions to replace the screen and the replacement part ($120) online and my son and I replaced it in about an hour. Would have taken someone with better information, experience and tools half that. Good as new.

I know their stuff is nice and shiny but this really pissed me off.

I just found the attitude in the store a little extreme. And the price for the repair.

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[Americano]

Wow, so repairing something requires an appointment? Who would've thought that, considering cars, appliances, human bodies and just about any other thing on earth requires you to make an appointment with the qualified service provider in order to get the item repaired.

And really, the nerve of people demanding they make a profit with the time they're spending fixing your stuff. Congratulations, you've just also discovered that it's cheaper to change your own oil than it is to bring it to a repair shop.

And also, what Macbook has ever cost $800? Have they ever sold them at that price point?

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[jtotheh]

It wasn't _repairing_ it that required an appointment. It was _talking_ to them about repairing it. Just standing there talking to them in their store.

The basic Macbook (not macbook pro) is 1000 but often discounted to 800.

The fact that they would make a profit while repairing it doesn't bother me. The fact that their charge would be about 600$ for a half hour of labor (taking into account the cost of the part) bothered me.

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[Anonymous Coward]

Try customer support with a PC laptop, here is what would happen [1]:

1: Call their number. Run through their voice jail system. Wait 3 hours on the phone.
2: Get a squawky voice on the phone who wants you to run Windows diagnostics.
3: When the plebe on the other end realizes that he can't just continue his script and pass you to a "customer satisfaction survey", he hangs up on you.
4: Wait another 2 hours on hold.
5: Their "9-5" hours end, you get told to call tomorrow and hung up on.
6: Call again, wait 3 hours on hold, ask for a supervisor.
7: Get told that you can send the laptop into their repair depot and have it fixed for $750, the repair will take six to eight weeks, and there are no guarantees on anything, parts, labor. He then gives a sales pitch that had you paid the $500 for real service, you might have the ability to have a tech come on site to fix it.
8: Spend time removing CRUs (customer removable unit) parts like RAM, hard disk before sending it.
9: Wait seven weeks.
10: Get laptop back, except with the wrong sized LCD that obviously doesn't fit the bezel put in.
11: Call in about the wrong LCD, wait 3 hours on hold only to be told you can drop it in the mail for another 6-8 weeks, take a coupon for $25 for a new laptop, or talk to the hand.

Yes, Mac service is "meh" sometimes, but it is light years better than the other guys where you can't even get to a person at all. After what I have seen with consumer level [2] laptop support, I either would buy a Mac, or pay the money for a business level machine.

[1]: Thankfully this wasn't me who had to deal with this, but a friend of mine. I buy from "big box" stores just for this reason, so any failures I get are within the 10 day return period at stores, so I can happily ignore the "DO NOT RETURN TO STORE" label on the box and just drop it off for a refund or exchange. Plus, even though extended warranties tend to be a waste of money on a lot of other products, on laptops (assuming you doublecheck coverage and see what other peoples' experiences with the service is) it may be worth the cost.

[2]: Business level laptops are a different story altogether. They cost significantly more, especially with the "premium/gold/top tier/top shelf/preferred" service package, but the CS is completely different than the consumer level PC support, and up to par.

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[jtownatpunk.net]

Go try the same thing with every other computer manufacturer on the planet and tell me how many of them will replace a screen for less than 70% of the MSRP of the laptop. If you find even one, I'll be shocked. That's an industry thing, not an Apple thing.

And I can top your story. I once broke the LCD on a new Sony digital camera. While it was a poor design (no protective shield over the LCD of a device intended to be carried in a pocket), it was entirely my fault that it broke. I called and asked what it would cost to replace the screen. Out of warranty repair would be $$$ but that model was just released a month ago so it should still be under warranty. After I explained that it wasn't a warranty failure but user damage, the price went to $$$+50. Fuck you, Sony! And I couldn't buy a screen on ebay because it was such a new model that nobody was parting them out yet.

The moral of the story: Take care of your stuff!

And, if you don't think you'll be able to take care of your stuff, insure it. (And Applecare is not insurance.)

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[jtotheh]

Sorry about your Sony. However, I later found out that there is a little industry of people doing repairs on Apple hardware for more reasonable prices. And I mean the difference between $200 and $755 for the screen, although we did that ourselves.

Apple is supposed to provide such a great user experience but when they decide not to they can screw you. Want flash on that iPhone? Independent apps? You're "protected" from these things.

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[jtotheh]

Actually, I had a screen replaced on a Dell laptop by a tech who came to my house and was totally professional. It was covered under warranty.

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[Princeofcups]

I know their stuff is nice and shiny but this really pissed me off.

I just found the attitude in the store a little extreme. And the price for the repair.

I had a battery die in my MacBookPro, and as I had an appointment at the Apple store, I went in and in 10 minutes I had a new battery, free of charge.

Anecdotal account is anecdotal.

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[KahabutDieDrake]

Wow, so being a sarcastic ass is fun, who knew?

Lets have a little perspective shall we? What % of the population sees a doctor? 80% or better, right? What percent of the population drives? 80% or better, right? What % owns macs.... 1-3%. Right? So in your world, 250million people are exactly the same as 9 million people? Really?

How about some more perspective, 120$ vs 755$ for a new screen. Compared to oil changes (you brought it up) at 15$ for home and 35$ at a oil change shop (or 50$ anywhere else). I'm gonna forgo the math and just assume you can spot the disparity (oh damn, sarcasm again).

I believe the original point was that apple "care" is less than entirely reasonable when it comes to things like this. Which based on what I'm seeing here, is entirely true. Further, I wonder how people would react to Dell if you had to set an appointment for service (in or out of warranty). Lastly, why do you think the cost matters? I'm guessing they bought it used, but in what world does the total cost having anything to do with this conversation? Are you seriously trying to imply that because they didn't pay enough, they got what they deserved? Seriously?

People like you are why we use the term fanboi. Another word that fits nicely is zealot. You are welcome to worship apple (they do make good shiny), but please, have some moderation for crying out loud.

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[Bill_the_Engineer]

What was your point?

These guys are supposedly providing the greatest consumer experience - I didn't think this was so great!

Yet you were able to walk into an Apple store and ask for help. You didn't have to wait on hold on some toll free tech support number and ask for an RMA number...

You need to make an appointment to speak to us, the next appointment is in 2 hours

They are able to give their full undivided attention to you in within 2 hours. You just need to make an appointment first.

This indicates that other people have went through the trouble of making an appointment and will expect to not have to wait when they arrive. You could have easily made an appointment while in the store, online prior to going to the store, or even call them to make an appointment. I have had my MacBook Pro serviced by them, and I made an appointment. They promptly looked at my laptop when I arrived for my appointment. They identified the bad part and was able to replace it within the time alloted to each appointment which meant I was able to leave the store with a fully repaired laptop within 45 minutes of my arrival. I had AppleCare so price was not an issue.

A coworker had to have the motherboard replaced. He went to the store, and they verified that it wasn't something that could be easily fixed and would need to stay at least overnight. He was pleasantly surprised by a phone call around 5pm that said that if he made it to the store before they closed later that night, he would be able to pick up his repaired laptop.

It'll cost $755 to repair

Sounds about right. I replaced my Sony Vaio with the Apple MacBook Pro because after 1.5 years the backlight on the 17" screen went out. Getting the part from Sony was going to set me back $800 and I still had to do all the repairs myself. So instead of repairing the laptop, I took the oportunity to upgrade, and I made sure I purchased AppleCare with the laptop. The laptop is now over 3 years old and, other than that one visit to the Apple store, it has never given me any more problems. I'm using it now.

We found instructions to replace the screen and the replacement part ($120) online and my son and I replaced it in about an hour.

Excellent news! I'm glad you were able to save some money. I'm surprised you were able to purchase a new screen for only $120, but as long as the MacBook works!

You do realize it's like taking your car to the dealer for repairs versus doing it yourself with a third-party part that may or may not work. Apple warrantees their repair. You were able to find an inexpensive replacement part and fix it yourself which in the end meant that you assumed all the risk. Luckily everything worked out for you.

I know their stuff is nice and shiny but this really pissed me off. I just found the attitude in the store a little extreme. And the price for the repair.

So you think you are better than everybody else, and don't need an appointment? Was the staff rude or were you just frustrated that they couldn't drop everything and look at your laptop?

Again I'm glad everything worked out in the end for you.

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[liquidsin]

you should try taking your car back to the dealer for some out-of-warranty work sometime. my mom spent almost $300 for an oil change and tune-up on her Honda because she thought the dealership was the best place to go...

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[Americano]

You realize that when you walk in with a computer and say "Can you fix this?" - which is exactly what you said you did - that you are interrupting their work with OTHER customers who have issues, and who have made appointments? The Genius Bars in the apple stores work by appointment, and at that appointment, they will run diagnostics and try to give you an idea of what they think is wrong with the system, and most times an estimate on how much it'll cost to fix if it's outside warranty (which, at $700+ for a repair, your system most certainly was).

I don't think this is bad customer service, I think that you simply expected "great customer service" to mean "we drop whatever we're doing at any moment when you walk in the door." And that's no way to run a business.

Macbooks are "often discounted" by 20%? I've never seen these sales.

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[Moridineas]

1. it'll cost $755 to repair

That seems very high. I would go back and get another opinion. I have a macbook pro ($2000+ originally) and was quoted ~$300 for a mainboard replacement, and I forget how much for the lcd replacement, but definitely less than $755. In the end it was all repaired for free...

2. you need to make an appointment to speak to us,the next appointment is in 2 hours

Of course...They take reservations and also walkins. The walkins enter a queue. If you don't make an appointment, you go in the queue. It's only fair... You can make a reservation online in about 60 seconds.

I just found the attitude in the store a little extreme. And the price for the repair.

It sounds like you got a bum rep. I would suggest in the future just trying again. Alternatively you can call the AppleCare phone number--they are in my experience excellent and have no wait times to talk to a service rep. They could quote you the price for a new monitor almost instantly I would think.

But hey, you got the best of all worlds--you did it yourself for definitely cheaper than anywhere else.

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[3dr]

Isn't this true of any computer, or your washer and dryer, your house's AC system, or your car? DIY is always cheaper because you simply don't have to pay for somebody else's time and profit margin. The limiting factors include your own ability to disassemble and properly reassemble the thing, and having access to adequate knowledge/documentation.

I totally agree with you though, that $755 is a ridiculous repair fee.

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[Americano]

Your agenda is showing.

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[jtotheh]

The appointment thing is just part of their personality. I actually realized after I got over the initial anger that it is a good way to cut down on people waiting around, trying to grab someone who's in the middle of something else, etc. It was ignorance on my part to not know I needed an appointment.
  But when you're standing there with the computer in hand having gotten to the place and you expect to just wait til someone's free it can rub you the wrong way.

I knew it was a crapshoot to repair it ourselves but the cost was so little compared to their basically saying it was totaled that we tried it. As it stands we saved over 600$ on a $800 item, which is nothing to sneeze at.

There's just a sort of snobbiness to their way of doing business that rubs me the wrong way.

The free cases or full refunds they're giving on this iPhone thing are pretty decent I guess.

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[jtotheh]

It was on Black Friday. But someone else I know got the same price at Micro Center ($800 macbook) a couple months ago

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[jtotheh]

Most computer/electronic stores allow someone to arrive at any time and get served according to a combination of common sense and how pushy they are. Requiring an appointment to talk to a sales clerk is not the norm at Best Buy, Micro Center, Staples, Office Depot etc. Now that I am aware of it, I think Apple's system may have its advantages. Having driven there, parked, walked a ways to get in, and gotten someone to talk to me, I was not in a good place to be told "you'll have to come back in two hours to discuss why your computer is totaled".

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[Americano]

Wow, so being a sarcastic ass is fun, who knew?

It can be - but you need more practice. Your grip is weak.

Lets have a little perspective shall we? What % of the population sees a doctor? 80% or better, right? What percent of the population drives? 80% or better, right? What % owns macs.... 1-3%. Right? So in your world, 250million people are exactly the same as 9 million people? Really?

Fail. The real question is - how many mechanics & doctors are there to service those 250 million people, versus mac "geniuses" to service those 9 million people?
]
There are what, 300-ish retail stores? Let's assume each has 5 geniuses available at any time. That means there are 1500 geniuses to service 9 million people. (~6000 users per genius)

Now, according to 2003 Business & Labor statistics (http://www.bls.gov/oes/2003/may/oes_29He.htm) there are about 6 million healthcare providers in the US to service 250 million people. (~42 people per provider)

I'll leave it up to you to figure out why "only 9 million Apple Users for them to support" doesn't mean dick.

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[UnknowingFool]

Which is probably the same as if you drive your malfunctioning car to a mechanic and ask him for an estimate on the spot without thoroughly inspecting car. He'll probably throw a figure but it won't be accurate.

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[conares]

In what part of the world do you get as lousy customer support like that? Holy shit, are you serious? Whatever I buy here the store has the same responsibilities as the manufacturer, which means when it breaks I take it back to where I bought it from and say "fixit". Then wait depending on the product 1 day to a few weeks (laptops take longer to fix). At no point do I call anyone or wait in any line. There must be some kind of consumer rights that you're not aware of.

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[Americano]

Really - and you consider the model you described to be a "better" customer experience? A model that runs by the principle of: Show up whenever, and either wait until we decide we want to talk to you, or be an obnoxious prick and come to the head of the line?

I understand it sucks for you to be told "come back later" the first time, but to say "that's terrible customer service" is pretty weak.

And for the record, the people who actually are looking at your problems at a Mac store aren't "sales clerks" in the sense that they're mindless hourly wage slaves. I've had the occasion to use the Genius Bars before, and as a software engineer, I've been impressed to see one of the girls (at the Salem NH store) drop to a unix command line and start digging around in logs to try and figure out what was wrong with my system when I brought it in for them to look at.

They actually do have some training and expertise beyond what the typical best buy "sales clerk" has.

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[Altus]

Next time you can get a dell and you can go to the dell store and see what they say... oh wait...

Admittedly that is a pretty expensive repair, but they replace the entire mother board on my mac book pro for less than what the part cost on New Egg (they even let me use their machines to look up the part cost before agreeing to the repair) so your millage my vary.

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[VGPowerlord]

They actually do have some training and expertise beyond what the typical best buy "sales clerk" has.

Best Buy's computer repair department isn't staffed by the people from the sales floor either.

Not that I would actually trust Best Buy with my computer. I'd take it to my local computer shop first (Digilink in my case).

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[thoromyr]

incredible! you know the cost of the part! if so, why don't you just buy the part and replace it yourself? I've worked on macbooks (and other laptops) before and it isn't that hard, you just need some patience, a good work area and a reasonable toolset.

I'm guessing that you don't like doing business with Apple and didn't bother to check anything before hand. Like the fact that they require appointments. This may come as a hard concept, but if you take your car in to a dealer for a repair you better get an appointment first or hope that business is very dead for them. And also realize that you will be paying the dealer more than parts + reasonable labor charge.

But it is more fun to whine on slashdot about how you weren't made to feel like a god who just descended from the heavens so they have sucky customer service.

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[Anonymous Coward]

It wasn't _repairing_ it that required an appointment. It was _talking_ to them about repairing it. Just standing there talking to them in their store.

Yes, just standing there, talking to them about it, verifying that it wasn't a different issue from the initial assessment by someone who is not trained for technical support, and then verifying your registration information so they can contact you when it's done, and signing the papers saying that if you don't pick it up for a year and they throw it away then it's your own damn fault, and making sure the machine's in good condition or at least all problems are documented so you don't sue the crap out of them when your hard drive had already crashed before you brought it in.

Let's compare this to HP support: open up the online chat which is the only way to get support from them. Wait to be connected to "Chad". Tell Chad the screen is broken. Chad tells you to try restarting the computer. Chad tells you to try removing the battery and putting it back in. Tell Chad the screen is literally cracked in half. Chad says to try installing updated display drivers from their website, helpfully providing a link. Chad says you can mail it in and it costs 500 dollars for a 700 dollar computer. Also, you need to wait for the box to get to you, that's going to take four to ten days, then about a week in the repair facility, then four to ten days for the box to get back to you. They helpfully reformatted your hard drive since it looks like Windows was running some weird 64-bit version and it's supposed to just have regular Windows on it, with 500 bits.

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[Anonymous Coward]

It wasn't _repairing_ it that required an appointment. It was _talking_ to them about repairing it. Just standing there talking to them in their store.

People like you really piss me off. You are clearly one of those people that think, oh my question is quick so I'll just jump this line. While the rest of us that know the world doesn't actually revolve around us make an appointment and then are expected to wait while you ask your "quick" question. Asshat.

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[UnknowingFool]

Most computer/electronic stores allow someone to arrive at any time and get served according to a combination of common sense and how pushy they are. Requiring an appointment to talk to a sales clerk is not the norm at Best Buy, Micro Center, Staples, Office Depot etc.

You are not talking to a sales clerk when you get an appointment. You are talking to a tech. When you get the appointment, you have the tech's undivided attention. Also you have to make an appointment with the right tech. If you have an iPhone problem, you'll get an appointment with an iPhone tech not a Mac tech.

Having driven there, parked, walked a ways to get in, and gotten someone to talk to me, I was not in a good place to be told "you'll have to come back in two hours to discuss why your computer is totaled".

So if you drove up to your local mechanic's shop and all the mechanics were backed up for hours, you'd expect to be serviced right away? And if someone at the front desk told you that a mechanic will be free in 2 hours, you'd claim that was horrible service. Unlike your local mechanic, you can call ahead or go on the website and make an appointment. Of course if they were not busy, they'd serve you right away. But they were busy.

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[Bing Tsher E]

You feel mighty comfortable here on apple.slashdot.org, don't you?

You're good at it, though. Tell your boss we said you deserve a raise.

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[Bing Tsher E]

At a Saturn dealership they were all ready to charge me $120 for changing the spark plug cables. And $90 for the cables. It wasn't the problem I went in for them to fix, and I had a set of cables in the trunk that I just hadn't gotten around to spending the 5 minutes it takes to put them in.

This was post 2000 Saturn, though. That outfit sure went to shit as soon as the GM hierarchy got out the long knives....

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[jtotheh]

I guess my main point was that replacing the display on a $800 ($1000 if you prefer) laptop shouldn't cost $755. Just judging from the fact that the parts of the entire laptop including complete assembly can be had for $45 ($245) more. CPU, RAM, Video card, keyboard, blah blah. (In other words, just throw this one away and buy another one) The 755 price was confirmed by two of the engineers working in the store.

There was no question of diagnostics to be run, expert advice needed - the display got bonked, it had a ugly miscolored area, it needed to be replaced. A standard job for which there is a standard price. Which is too high.

The fact that they told me to go away and come back two hours later-- to hand them the laptop and ask them to do this-- when I was standing right there with the computer was just icing on the cake.

This is just one person's bad experience with the Apple way. It felt like what people seem to say about Apple- they were making the decisions for me, I had no alternative, and it was expensive. The appointment system seems kind of pompous, and finding out about the way I did was not a happy moment for me.

In real life I'm a Linux guy and I'm not any kind of anti-Apple zealot. Apple makes some stuff that works out great for certain people and applications. I love my iPod. My kids and wife love theirs. We have an iMac. I had my first Mac in 1988. etc etc.

  I consider their computers to be overpriced in raw hardware but to me you're really paying for the superior OS and support (not sure I still feel that way about the support) which can't be had on a PC for any price (Hackintoshes not worth anything). So I am used to thinking there is a Macintosh tax and I think it is justified. However in this situation I felt I already paid that tax when I bought the Macbook in the first place.

but a $755 repair on an $800 computer? Please, that's insulting.

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[jisatsusha]

Education store, 15% off for university students.

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[daver00]

There's a snobbiness to the way they do everything, and it rubs me the wrong way too so don't worry. I dunno, I would be mad too at that price for a repair, and I'd be mad too if I couldn't just leave the laptop with them and leave with a job number. Don't apologise about it, Apple are a bunch of snobby asshole liars who shoehorn industry standard components into nice cases and lie to their fans telling them that they have purchased something superior. I swear the snobbiness is the appeal sometimes.

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[Phroggy]

When the Apple stores first opened, I don't believe they required appointments, but that policy was adopted pretty quickly. I agree that it's annoying, especially if you just have a quick question, but it does mean you don't have to wait there in the store in a long line behind other people who need their problems fixed.

Another option is to take your Mac to an Apple-authorized service center. Here in the Northwest, The Mac Store is great.

In the future, I highly recommend getting the AppleCare extended warranty for any Mac. Out-of-warranty repairs are very expensive, and a lot of them aren't as easy as the screen replacement you found. Make sure you actually activate your AppleCare coverage once you've bought it; I seem to remember hearing they were going to be automating this but I'm not sure what the process is currently.

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[Moofie]

You mean they actually wanted to charge you more than the cost of the parts to execute a repair? SHOCKING!
You can repair things yourself for less than repair people want to charge you? OH, THE HUMANITY!
They didn't jump you to the front of the line of other people that were waiting for help? Whatever shall you do?

Come on.

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[tftp]

So if you drove up to your local mechanic's shop and all the mechanics were backed up for hours, you'd expect to be serviced right away?

I don't know what mechanic you are working with, but the dealership that services my car is *always* ready to take the car in, and if you want to get on with your life they offer a shuttle to neighboring places, or a rental car (free sometimes.) They will call you if they have any questions; otherwise the only call you get is "your car is ready."

It is indeed more polite to call ahead and ask for a good time to come. But for many jobs (like an oil change / tire rotation) they don't even give appointments - you are welcome at any time. For other, more complex jobs (like all tires replaced and wheels aligned) you can drop the car off whenever you want. There are plenty of clerks to check incoming cars in, and their job takes a fixed amount of time per car. If mechanics are busy, the car (not you!) will wait in line.

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[tftp]

The real question is - how many mechanics & doctors are there to service those 250 million people, versus mac "geniuses" to service those 9 million people?

That's not the real question. There are many other factors involved, like how often people get sick vs. how frequently Macs need service.

It's much better to ask "How long do you need to stand in line just for someone to have a look at your problem?" If that waiting time is unreasonably long, the computer maker's service - or your country's healthcare - is broken. If Apple needs to schedule an appointment for an estimate, instead of asking you to wait for 10 minutes in the worst case, they simply don't have enough workers.

It is not OK to optimize the workload of techs by manipulating customers. Apple, for example, could allow you to leave your computer with the clerk at any time. Then you are free to go, and the computer goes into the pile from which techs take them and look at them. Once they have an estimate they would call you, and if you don't like the price you can come at your convenience and take the computer back. If something has to wait, it better be inanimate objects. Customers are willing to wait a few days (or even weeks) for the repair to be done - as long as they don't have to be involved themselves. That's how many service industries work, from screen doors to watches and cars. Apple just doesn't feel the need to care about its customers - they are locked in with nowhere else to go.

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[UnknowingFool]

I don't know what mechanic you are working with, but the dealership that services my car is *always* ready to take the car in, and if you want to get on with your life they offer a shuttle to neighboring places, or a rental car (free sometimes.) They will call you if they have any questions; otherwise the only call you get is "your car is ready."

When you bring in your car to a mechanic, they'll take it but no one is going to work on it until someone is free. The OP not only someone to diagnose the problem but fix it right away just because he brought it in. He was told the soonest someone would be available was 2 hours. In your case you are willing to leave the car but if you didn't expect someone to work on it right away. Apple doesn't offer "leave it and we'll get to it later" service, but that's not what the OP wanted. He wanted service right away.

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[tftp]

The OP not only someone to diagnose the problem but fix it right away just because he brought it in.

I'm unsure what makes you think the OP wanted an immediate repair. Here is what he said:

2. you need to make an appointment to speak to us,the next appointment is in 2 hours

The appointment was "to speak to us" (talk to the tech who, presumably, would look at the thing.) I can't imagine anyone insisting on an immediate repair, both due to parts that may need to be ordered, and due to time that it takes to do the work. No reasonable person would insist on repairs "while you wait".

Apple doesn't offer "leave it and we'll get to it later" service

Apparently so, and I say this is a stupid way to run a customer-facing business. What are Apple's good business reasons to not offer this service? IMO, as they sell more and more phones and iPods and stuff they will be eventually forced to do just that. It just wastes tech's time to talk to the customer. The customer probably knows nothing, and the tech can see what's wrong just by looking (or powering up) the computer. And if that's not enough, there is always a phone to call. In a sane world a clerk (dime a dozen) just takes whatever you bring in, prints the receipt, and you are free to go. Distancing the tech from the customer also gives you flexibility - if some store has a mountain of broken items you can send additional techs there, or offer them overtime pay, or ship some of those devices to a repair center. A "genius" standing in front of you and talking to you - it's so 70's ...

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[UnknowingFool]

Apparently so, and I say this is a stupid way to run a customer-facing business. What are Apple's good business reasons to not offer this service? IMO, as they sell more and more phones and iPods and stuff they will be eventually forced to do just that.

I guess then we have different interpretations of "customer service". Most people are not computer savvy. Some people don't care what the tech does. For some people, they want to be there when the tech is inspecting their property which may be worth several thousand dollars even if they have no idea what the tech is doing.

And if that's not enough, there is always a phone to call. In a sane world a clerk (dime a dozen) just takes whatever you bring in, prints the receipt, and you are free to go. Distancing the tech from the customer also gives you flexibility - if some store has a mountain of broken items you can send additional techs there, or offer them overtime pay, or ship some of those devices to a repair center. A "genius" standing in front of you and talking to you - it's so 70's ...

There are key differences between diagnosing a car and a computer. From what I can tell, the tech is allotted 45 minutes to diagnose the problem. If it takes longer, then the tech will ask to keep the machine longer. Most computer diagnosis usually take less than 45 mins. This is unlike a car where it may more than 45 minutes just to remove parts to diagnose and confirm the problem. Also a car garage is not the safest environment for a customer to be waiting. Many garages I've been have specific rules stating that the customer is not allowed in the garage for safety/liability reasons.

Another aspect as to why a customer should be present is so that the tech can interact with a customer. While a customer may not know technical details, the tech can ask them non-technical questions like "When did it work last? When did you last backup your data? When did you start seeing this problem?" In the garage model, this information may be passed through another worker or sometimes even lost in between. When the tech is directly asking the question, he/she will get direct answers instead of through an intermediate or by playing phone tag with a customer. Some customers may have additional questions for a tech. With Apple's model they can ask right away in non-techno-speak. No need to talk to a dozen intermediates who may have no clue. "What does it mean that the hard drive clusters are bad?" "I don't lady, I just work here."

When the diagnosis is confirmed, having a customer present means that the tech can know what the customer wants to do immediately and determine any nuances. Does the customer want to go ahead with the repair? Okay, the hard drive needs to be replaced, does the customer want Apple to attempt to retrieve the data? If it takes more than 45 mins to repair, when does the customer want to pick up?

It just wastes tech's time to talk to the customer. The customer probably knows nothing, and the tech can see what's wrong just by looking (or powering up) the computer.

This is the kind of attitude that makes people hate computers and computer technicians. Yes the average consumer is probably uninformed when it comes to computer technology; however, people hate to be treated as though they are stupid. That being said, which service would your average grandmother want? An appointment based service where she can ask and all questions to the nice technician about what is wrong and what she can do? Or one where she leaves her computer and has to call someone on the phone who really can't answer her questions but is asking her to plunk down some money to fix her computer?

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[Americano]

That's not the real question. There are many other factors involved, like how often people get sick vs. how frequently Macs need service.

Actually, in the context of the discussion so far, that *is* the real question. The person I was responding to said, "There are 250 million people who need to see doctors, and only 9 million mac users, therefore it's not reasonable to ask me to make an appointment like I would expect to with a doctor" - as if the absolute number of people who would need a particular service is the only determining factor, as opposed to the number of people demanding service versus the number of people providing the service.

My response is that there is a much higher number of users per Mac service specialists when compared to patients versus doctors - thus if it's "reasonable" to make an appointment to see a doctor, it's just as "reasonable" to make an appointment to have your computer serviced.

For people, there are emergency rooms for "on-demand" service, and even in an emergency room, you will be triaged and forced to wait for a long time if you're showing up for a sniffle when they've got patients from a high-speed multi-vehicle accident to work on.

If something has to wait, it better be inanimate objects.

And what if their system - make an appointment for diagnostic & drop-off - minimizes waiting for everybody concerned? I suspect you've never actually used the system in question, and so you're just chiming in because you like to complain about Apple "not caring" about its customers who are "locked in".

Apple just doesn't feel the need to care about its customers - they are locked in with nowhere else to go.

I like how you handily omit the existence of third party repair services, and the fact that Apple's *computers* are made up of commodity parts that you could replace yourself if you're in that much of a rush, or want to save even more money.

Grind your axe elsewhere, you clearly have never used the "Genius Bar" service, and have no idea how it works.

Re:Apple MacBook Display repair

[Americano]

I feel plenty comfortable anywhere on slashdot. Does my opinion bother you that much that you feel the need to troll?

You're good at it, though. Tell your boss we said you deserve a raise.

Brother, if I were a shill in the employ of Apple, I'd be driving a much nicer car and living in a way better neighborhood.

Address the argument directly, or fuck off. It's your choice which course you want to pursue, but if you have a real point to make, I'd rather hear that.

Q/A

[LBArrettAnderson]

The Q & A is epic. The people asking these questions are my heroes.

Re:Q/A

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean those people that kept asking "When will you fix this problem?" after Jobs kept reiterating that no one knows how to fix the problem? Not even other cell phone makers, who also experience it?

Re:Q/A

[Anonymous Coward]

Other cell phone makers DO NOT experience the same problem. Similar, yes, but this is caused by something entirely different, and something that could have easily been avoided had they not cared so much about how sexy the phone looks. Anyone with common sense will not be satisfied with Jobs avoiding the issue all together. How many times did he say there wasn't a problem? How many times did he say it wasn't a big problem? How many times did he say that there is a problem? More than once for all 3 of those. "Only 1 more dropped call per 100 calls..." but how many dropped calls is that? If it's 2 instead of 1, then that's a HUGE deal.

Re:Q/A

[LBArrettAnderson]

Um... do you mean like this one?

"10:43AM Ryan from gdgt: You showed people almost covering the entire phone in their hand, but on the iPhone 4 it can happen with just a touch. Can you explain that difference?
Bob: When you touch the phone, you put yourself between the signal and your phone, so when you touch that spot you can attenuate the signal, and if you grip it with your whole hand, you can attenuate it even more. We don't build phones with an antenna on top...

Hmm, that didn't really sound like an answer to us."

Apple continues to avoid the issue, and luckily the media present at the event didn't accept their lousy explanations.

Re:Q/A

[ejasons]

"Only 1 more dropped call per 100 calls..." but how many dropped calls is that? If it's 2 instead of 1, then that's a HUGE deal.

Not to mention that he was comparing it to the 3GS, which isn't known for having great reception to begin with.

My experience: I had a 3G with which I could almost never complete a call from my house, despite having 4-5 bars (with either Edge or 3G), though it was better most other places. I ended up breaking that phone, and so bought a Samsung Blackjack (Edge only, I believe) to tide me over until the new iPhone arrived -- no problem at all with making calls from my house. I didn't like the way that the Blackjack worked otherwise, however, so I bought an (cheap) unopened first-generation iPhone from someone I knew. Also no problems at my house. So, the fact that the iPhone 4 is worse than the 3GS is very much a concern (though I will probably try for myself...).

Software update may make complaints worse

[proxima]

The software update for iOS 4 released yesterday changes the formula determining the number of bars. What's really interesting to me is that it in general it will result in fewer bars (because the old difference between 3 and 4 bars was miniscule in terms of actual signal strength). In some circumstances it was easy to go from 5 bars to 2 bars with only a small change in the signal.

In practice, though, what this means is that people who used to get 4 bars in their house might now get 2 bars and think their signal problem got worse. None of this has any effect on dropped calls, of course, but I would expect that people might actually complain more about the iphone 4 antenna after this update.

Not to mention that because Apple pushes out OS updates as complete packages, it's a several hundred megabyte download.

In the end, giving out free cases was the only sensible solution. It's a shame that the bumper appears somewhat poorly designed - it won't connect well with older, slightly fatter connection cables. It blows my mind that they didn't come up with a simple non-conductive coating for the exposed antenna to reduce this problem in the first place.

Re:Software update may make complaints worse

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a shame that the bumper appears somewhat poorly designed

You may have missed that iPhone 4 owners will also be able to choose from a number of third-party options for their free case.

Re:Software update may make complaints worse

[MassacrE]

It blows my mind that they didn't come up with a simple non-conductive coating for the exposed antenna to reduce this problem in the first place.

The very thing that makes the steel ‘stainless’ makes it hard to coat. But the natural oxide is a insulator, so in a sense it is self-coating the longer you expose it to the air.

Re:Software update may make complaints worse

[crossword.bob]

Because a simple non-conductive coating wouldn't help. This is AC where impedance is more important than resistance, and across a simple non-conducting coating impedance varies inversely with frequency. So at phone frequency, it wouldn't do much. Now you can get high impedance coatings, but I don't know exactly how high or what the cost/benefit ratio would be. My guess is too high or they would've a) done it ine first place or b) jumped at the chance to be seen to be doing something now.

my HTC Dream works fine

[mutherhacker]

I have been gripping my HTC dream in every possible way for the past 5 minutes. No matter how I grip it, I can't get the bars to go down. 5 bars all the time.

Re:my HTC Dream works fine

[KahabutDieDrake]

I decided to test my Treo too. I know, old school but the results are fun.

First off, important to note that this phone has an antenna on top. It's not really in a position where holding it is easy or typical. Soooo

So when trying to cover the antenna with my hand, I notice a COMPLETE LOSS of bars. From strong signal to NOTHING AT ALL. No network. Further exploring has yielded answers. It turns out that when you put your hand around the antenna, you also place your hand over the radio on/off button. This phone is so bad that when you cover the antenna with your hand, it turns itself off!!!! The OUTRAGE. I'm calling for a recall. ;)

Actual results may vary this does not constitute scientific evidence. It's barely even anecdotal.

Apple Fanboys Get What They Deserve

[Anonymous Coward]

Hipster Douchebags become so dependant on Apple's marketing and lifestyle branding to prop-up their sad little lives that they defend the company and its products no matter how defective or lacking compared to other competing products.

What incentive does Apple and Steve Jobs have to do anything other than what they just did at this nauseatingly dishonest and sleazy damage control event.

Lie about the problem and smear other well designed cellphones? The Apple Hipster Douchebags will lap it up.

Double Speak

[Anonymous Coward]

Steve Jobs: "We've been trying to understand this so when we solve it, we really solve it, not slap a band-aid on it."
Steve Jobs: "Here's a free bumper to fix the antenna issue"

Same with all the iPhone 4's I've tried it on

[wfolta]

Fact is, Apple showed how Blackberry HTC, and Samsung phones all dropped from 4 or 5 bars to 1 or 0 bars, just by holding it differently.

IN MARGINAL CONDITIONS. Just like the iPhone. If you've got a good signal, the iPhone 4 rocks. If you have a marginal signal, it's still better than its predecessor... unless you have a marginal signal and you hold it in a particular -- and not necessarily unnatural -- way.

It's the way all smartphones work. It's the laws of physics.

Re:Same with all the iPhone 4's I've tried it on

[mutherhacker]

Same with all the iPhone 4's I've tried it on

So if you have good reception then the iPhone doesn't drop bars either?

Re:Same with all the iPhone 4's I've tried it on

[rjstanford]

This is actually the case, yes. If you're in a decent metropolitan area with an honest 5 bars, you can do whatever you want and you'll be fine.

Re:Same with all the iPhone 4's I've tried it on

[Anonymous Coward]

sigh. You're right, it's the laws of physics WHEN YOU BRIDGE TWO ANTENNAS TOGETHER.

Explained many many many times before, but you keep listening to Jobs muddling the THREE issues: the phone's MISLEADING bars-to-signal-strength (already said they'd "fix" this in patch), gripping any phone at bottom (physics, unavoidable), and bridging two antennas (bumper).

The signal degradation caused by bridging the gap is much greater than holding it in the same fashion without bridging the gap. Yes, other phones exhibit similar problems, but not as bad. Go to a low signal area and compare: (a) grip the bottom without bridging (b) grip the bottom WITH bridging. Come back to tell us the results.

They got their wording wrong

[TheOutlaw]

"Steve Jobs started by showing that the problem wasn't limited to iPhones..." The word "problem" should be replaced with "feature".

New Slogan for iPhone

[greymond]

There's a case for that.

Re:New Slogan for iPhone

[Nadaka]

Also works for lawyers.

Re:Denial? No. Stevie boy just knows his customers

[die444die]

I'm an Apple customer, and I do not like being treated like an idiot. I do like seeing Apple defend themselves against idiotic claims and faulty "tests" that mean nothing.

So to sum up...

[Chris Mattern]

...it's not a problem, the problem is unavoidable, everybody else has this problem too, and we're going to fix it.

Re:So to sum up...

[Torodung]

Sounds like Breshnev.

--
Toro

Bold claim is bogus

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

I checked this myself by holding my AT&T Bold in one- and two-handed death grips (and in other creative ways) and never from five bars. I do have signal issues due to AT&T at work (my signal will drop from 5 to 1 bar when the phone is untouched on my desk, then back up to five); but holding it exactly the way shown by Jobs made no difference in my reception level. When doing so at home, the signal did not change from five bars no matter what I did.

Make me wonder how they rigged that one up.

Re:Bold claim is bogus

[jeffy210]

Make me wonder how they rigged that one up.

Holding it with copper-mesh lined gloves?

Re:Bold claim is bogus

[natehoy]

First, I agree, the Apple problem is different from the problem all other phones experience. Pesky laws of physics! Apple should have arranged to have those suspended before building an antenna susceptible to them! :)

The problem you are experiencing is that your signal is a "solid" five bars, and even the attenuation you are experiencing isn't enough to drop it to four. The Steve probably picked his location carefully so he was at a "low" five bars and holding the phone wrong could drop it to four.

I don't know if the Bold has it, but my Curve 8300 allows me to show signal strength in db loss rather than "bars". On the Curve, you hold the ALT key and tap the keys "N", "M", "L", and "L" in sequence. If the Bold has some equivalent, you might find it useful to see what sort of actual signal losses you incur by holding the phone various ways.

I can pretty much guarantee you it'll never be anywhere close to the iPhone 4's loss in a "death grip" situation, though. Exposed antenna conductor makes it possible to change the actual characteristics of the antenna. Anyone who knows signal at all will tell you that the effect of changing the antenna characteristics almost always has a more severe effect than simply blocking part of the signal.

Re:Bold claim is bogus

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

I'm thinking it's unobtanium.

Re:Bold claim is bogus

[MichaelSmith]

What happens if you have sweaty fingers? Your fingers would need to be conductive which requires water and a charge carrier like salt. So if you wash and dry your hands frequently they won't conduct very well.

Re:Bold claim is bogus

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

I don't think it's really relevant - the antennas on the other phones (including bold) aren't exposed directly to skin oils/sweat, as they're behind a shell. The iPhone antenna is in the case itself; and so touching that part of the case means you're touching the antenna directly.

Re:Bold claim is bogus

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

True. There is some difference if I grip it tightly - about 10db, which isn't enough to change "bars". As you said, the nature of the problem is different. In the case of the BB (and other presumably) it's a matter of blocking the signal. For iPhone, it's (as far as I've learned) essentially shorting the antenna with your hand.

Re:What's that? In actual numbers?

[beanluc]

0.55% of 3 million iPhone 4 buyers == 16,500 complaints.

At the press conference today it's been said that 3 million have been sold, and that 1.7% have been returned. Three times as many people have just up and returned them as called to complain about them.

So we've got 67,500 iPhone 4 buyers pissed-off about it enough to do something which impacts Apple.

Only 0.55%

[MemoryDragon]

of the customers CALLED in, the others couldnt....

customers = beta-testers

[peter303]

every tech company knows that:-)

They are offering refunds

[casiowatchchick]

They are offering refunds for cases you already bought.

I'm Catholic...

[ringmaster1982]

... using a phone condom is against the rules. Jobs is a bigot!!

Re:I'm Catholic...

[Anonymous Coward]

Not if, in your conscience, you do not want to get it pregnant.

Re:I'm Catholic...

[shorelinemike]

... using a phone condom is against the rules. Jobs is a bigot!!

Whether or not the original poster is Catholic, one should always use a condom on one's smart phone to keep it from getting screwed ...

Is .55% supposed to be a low number?

[Anonymous Coward]

Admittedly, I don't have real numbers so I'll phrase this as a question instead of a statement and merely state my assumptions.

If .55% of phone purchasers called to complain, is that supposed to be a low number?

Assuming 3 million iPhones, .55% is 16500 calls. The phone has been available for 3 weeks (I think), so that is 785 calls per day. I don't know who answeres the phones for Apple, but I would find it hard to believe that they can even answer 785 calls per day. How many people call and sit on hold for an hour before hanging up? (Or having the call drop...)

quick poll

[Frag-A-Muffin]

How many of you people complaining actually HAVE an iPhone 4 and are actually experiencing the problem?! I for one cannot chime in on this debate yet because I'm up in Canada and we're not getting the iPhone 4 until July 30. (And you bet I'll be getting one).

I don't understand all this over-hyped apple-bashing. I know there are a lot of haters, but seriously, what more can you ask for from a company. Here's a direct quote from Steve from the Q&A session:

"For those customers we'll get them a case, and if that doesn't work, we'll get them a full refund. And we'll continue to work on antennas that don't have this problem."

Ummm .. they have a solution for you, free of charge. If you that doesn't solve your problem, or if you don't like their solution, they're offering a full refund! I'm not sure how much more they can do. They're not forcing you to buy any of their products.

Did you read that last sentence?! That's right, you actually have a choice!! Yay!

I guess people just like the attention on hating on others?! I don't know. You kids these days, can't be happy, can you?

Re:quick poll

[shutdown -p now]

I think most people at this point aren't unhappy about the solution as such - indeed, this was precisely what many expected and suggested Apple do. It's more about the tone at which the message was delivered, and the whole "lalala we can't hear you" attitude since the problem was first discovered and clearly demonstrated. Part of it is Apple's self-created image of "it just works" and "ultimate experience", which is largely what drives their sales, but which also means that they get hurt more if they slip up (compared to e.g. MS or even Google).

Re:quick poll

[StuartHankins]

Exactly, the only thing is I wish the media circus hadn't occurred prior to this announcement. It could be construed that Apple caved to pressure from various organizations and offered the cases only for that reason. Perhaps a better approach in the future would be to hold a press conference earlier, even if no immediate solution is evident. People (especially early adopters) just want to know they will be taken care of when they spend a lot of money on a totally redesigned device, that the company is aware of the problem, and that they're working on it. A free case in this instance is cheap PR, and offering it sooner would have laid a lot of the hoopla to rest.

Re:quick poll

[Aboroth]

Personally I'm just annoyed with all of these people who swear fealty to a corporation. I truly don't understand it.

I understand giving repeat business to a company that treats you well. I also understand having respect for a company that does right by its customers. But I don't understand making up excuses for its mistakes and defending it like it is your dad and you are an 8 year old on the playground.

I mean, it is just a company, and you pay it money for things. What does it give you that you don't pay it for? Does it give free blowjobs out to the most devoted supporters or something? If so then I might just have to sign up.

Re:quick poll

[Anonymous Coward]

*crickets chirping*

Re:quick poll

[Quirkz]

Some people aren't happy unless you apologize exactly the way they want you to apologize. Generally this should involve a lot of groveling, moaning, and hand-wringing. Perhaps ritual suicide. Based on a few dozen sample explicit explanations earlier in the posts, no two people agree on exactly what is the appropriate magic way to apologize to make it all better, and thus no matter what Apple did, everyone would still be unhappy.

And this is for a group of people who, mostly, didn't even appear to own an iPhone or be affected by the problem. They still want blood anyway, for some reason.

Re:quick poll

[aardwolf64]

I have an iPhone 4, and I've experienced the problem several times.

My friend in Pittsburgh has an iPhone 4 (with a weak signal at work), and every time he forgot and "held it wrong", it dropped our call (on launch day.) He also spent tons of time on hold for Dell tech support using the handsfree kit, picked up his phone for a second, and dropped the call because he was holding it wrong again.

My problems have gone away since I bought a case, but it's a third party case so I won't get a refund. I wanted a bumper, but they sold out far before the iPhones did, and even Apple admits they can't produce them fast enough.

A bigger problem is the proximity sensor, which IS a software issue. My wife hung up on me with her face, and I've put myself on mute several times. Luckily, this is promised to be fixed in a future software update (until it isn't, just like the antenna issue.)

Re:quick poll

[Anonymous Coward]

It wouldn't be so bad if their advertisaing wouldn't bombard me with a message that I "MUST HAVE THIS MAGICAL DEVICE!!!!" Then I get pissed.

Re:quick poll

[Bing Tsher E]

It could be construed that Apple caved to pressure from various organizations and offered the cases only for that reason.

Golly. You're right.

I wonder if the stock collapse got anyone's attention at HQ?

Re:quick poll

[ILongForDarkness]

How about the choice to have a phone that works without putting it in a dumb looking case? How about saying yes we have a problem instead of "all phones have problems"? Sure it might be true but try pulling that one on your boss if you're late to work or do a crappy job. Who cares about the Blackberry, this is a Apple press conference to address a problem with an Apple product. I don't hate Apple, I have a 27" iMac, an old Powerbook and an iPod and like each of them, but if you have a problem you should admit it without qualifying it. As well 30 days for a refund isn't enough I think. If you are at day 22 and have to wait until next week to order your free Bumper that gives you no time to see if it actually solves the problem before you're stuck with the phone.

Re:quick poll

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly, its totally unreasonable to expect a company to produce a product that works as advertised.

A coffee shop I recently went to lost my order for a sandwich. After waiting awhile, when I brought it to their attention, they made my sandwich, but also gave me a free drink. See, they took responsibility for their mistake. They fixed the issue AND gave me some sort of additional compensation, so I was happy with the outcome. Had they simply made my sandwich and done nothing else or given me the option of a refund, I would have been annoyed, because it perfectly reasonable to expect a business to make a sandwich when you order it without being reminded of the order.

Similarly, when you purchase a cell phone, it is reasonable to expect it to work as advertised. If it doesn't (e.g. having any antenna design that is prone to significant signal loss when being held normally), it is perfectly reasonable to expect some compensation in addition to the actual fix or refund.

Re:quick poll

[Stevecrox]

Giving up moderation to post, your right most people on here moaning probably don't own an iPhone, but Apple has managed to very slowly annoy/irritate/wind up the tech crowd.

It can be for a variety of reasons, the PR, walled garden, attitude to developers, cost, etc... but it seems anti-Apple feeling is growing.

Personally I dislike Apple products because I' tired of people buying into the Apple RDF. Last night I had a software engineering friend tell me Apple tell me he was awaiting a fix for his call problems because Apple said it was a signal bar display issue. I showed him the actual issue people were complaining about and asked him how he would fix antenna de-tuning with software. Only at then did he stop paying attention to Apple's marketing and engage his brain.

Re:quick poll

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't have an iPhone 4 nor do I have an iPhone/3G/3Gs. I don't have AT&T and I don't want to switch to them to get a phone I don't want. Is that exercising my right to choice enough for you?

And now, to put the shoe on the other foot. You have a choice to NOT read all the hate towards Apple. It's true! Just look away!

Final note. 100% no sarcasm. I really do hope you enjoy your iPhone 4 when you get it next month.

Re:quick poll

[Anonymous Coward]

I know of an individual who works for a company that assists in supporting in Iphone Care.

They've received many many calls, many calls, about the iphone 4 antenna issue.

Not overblown

Re:quick poll

[StuartHankins]

By "collapse" do you mean a smaller swing than the stock has had regularly over the past 3 months? Take a look at the chart and tell me someone noticed. http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=maximized&chdeh=0&chfdeh=0&chdet=1279381456599&chddm=24633&chls=IntervalBasedLine&q=NASDAQ:AAPL&ntsp=0 Take a look at the 6-month wile you're at it, then remind yourself that AAPL investors and management can't see a "collapse" that isn't there.

Re:quick poll

[vague disclaimer]

I don't understand all this over-hyped apple-bashing.

You're new here, aren't you?

You Fucking Piece Of Shit

[Anonymous Coward]

Going to beat the living out of the next fucking loser like you walking around with a piece of shit iPhone.

Re:You Fucking Piece Of Shit

[WiiVault]

Somehow I think you might have difficulty fitting through the stairwell of mom's basement. Going outside is such a bummer eh?

Re:You Fucking Piece Of Shit

[Bing Tsher E]

He broke the stairs last time. The cinder blocks are kinda wobbly.

How did they get those numbers?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ask yourself where those numbers came from.
How does AT&T track dropped calls?
How many people will call support when they are told a fix is on the way? How many people call Apple Care? (thats the .5%)
When the calls get into support, how many are redirected to AT&T for "dropped" calls and then classified as a "non-issue"?

If you don't ask where the numbers came from, you can't tell when you are being lied to. If you've worked at any company at all you'd know how bastardized statistics can be -- you can get them to mean anything you want by hand-waving, reclassificaiton, etc.

Of course, for people that don't question, it becomes entirely what Jobs wanted by presenting this data...a "small" issue.

Re:How did they get those numbers?

[Anonymous Coward]

Determining the ratio of people who encounter an issue and complain about it is tricky. But determining how many dropped calls happen is really easy. The system already has to track various things on a per-user basis (e.g. minutes, text messages), tracking this all goes off of your SIM. Keeping track of the number of dropped calls on a per-user basis isn't much extra. ATT knows what SIM you have and what phone you have, so they can associate the two.

Re:Denial? No. Stevie boy just knows his customers

[Barsteward]

"I'm an Apple customer, and I do not like being treated like an idiot."

thats how they sell so much overpriced/overhyped sh*t

Engadget's Page Refesh = Awesome

[Zymophideth]

I really love it when reading an article and the entire page refreshes every 30 sec and takes me back to the top for a banner. It's becoming really hard to justify not installing ad blocker. I want to support the websites I visit but at this point the ads are just over the line.

Re:Engadget's Page Refesh = Awesome

[Irontail]

Well, it is a liveblog, so the auto-refresh is kinda nice. If it weren't there, you'd have to manually refresh the page if you wanted to get the minute-to-minute updates.

Also, there's a little link at the top of the page to turn the auto-refresh off.

Re:Engadget's Page Refesh = Awesome

[kelanden]

The auto refresh is there because the article is a "live blog" which received real-time updates as the press conference progressed. Now that the conference is over, Engadget appears to have forgotten to turn it off, but removing the &refresh=60 from the end of the URL string and reloading the page should fix it.

Re:Engadget's Page Refesh = Awesome

[sxedog]

This must be default behaviour on Endgadget... This is the main reason I never go to that site.Or any site that does this for that matter. I hate getting half way through an article with pictures only to have to find where I left off when I got rudely interrupted.

I do have ABP installed and it didn't seem to help unless I'm doing it wrong (as usual)

Re:Engadget's Page Refesh = Awesome

[snowwrestler]

There's a link at the top to turn off the refresh.

Re:Engadget's Page Refesh = Awesome

[Anonymous Coward]

Informative? Of what? That the parent doesn't know what a live-blog is, and can't to see the link at the top for turning off auto-refresh (the same top s/he got to see every 30 secs supposedly).

Re:Engadget's Page Refesh = Awesome

[TooMuchToDo]

Or they could use Ajax properly and not refresh the whole god damn page. Gmail seems to do just fine without refreshing the entire page when a new message comes in.

Re:Engadget's Page Refesh = Awesome

[C10H14N2]

Yes, it refreshes because the BIG GODDAMNED SHINY "AUTO-REFRESH" option at the top is set to "ON," dipshit. The whole fucking point is that you're following along LIVE and want the newest comments at the top so you don't have to keep scrolling to the bottom.

Re:Engadget's Page Refesh = Awesome

[evilviper]

You should always use Ajax properly.

Re:Engadget's Page Refesh = Awesome

[Phroggy]

This annoyed and confused me too, until I saw the option to turn it off.

As the other poster said, this page was being updated in real time during the announcement. I don't know why they didn't shut off the auto-reload feature after it was done, though...

it's a sinister plot, the free bumper.

[swschrad]

Original Apple Bumper Polish will sell for $30 an ounce.

Do You Wanna Touch Me There?

[Anonymous Coward]

We've been here too long tryin' to get along
Pretendin' that you're oh, so shy
I'm a natural ma'am doin' all I can
My temperature is runnin' high

Cry at night no one in sight
An' we got so much to share
Talking's fine if you got the time
But I ain't got the time to spare, yeah

Do you wanna touch?
(Yeah)
Do you wanna touch?
(Yeah)
Do you wanna touch me there, where?

Steve comes in: No, not there !!

Do you wanna touch?
(Yeah)
Do you wanna touch?
(Yeah)
Do you wanna touch me there, where, there, yeah?
Yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah
Yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah

Every girl an' boy needs a little joy
All you do is sit an' stare
Beggin' on my knees baby, won't you please?
Run your fingers through my hair

My, my, my whiskey and rye
Don't it make you feel so fine
Right or wrong don't it turn you on
Can't you see we're wastin' time, yeah?

Do you wanna touch?
(Yeah)
Do you wanna touch?
(Yeah)
Do you wanna touch me there, where?

Do you wanna touch?
(Yeah)
Do you wanna touch?
(Yeah)
Do you wanna touch me there, where, there, yeah?
Yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah
Yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah

Do you wanna touch?
(Yeah)
Do you wanna touch me there?
Do you wanna touch?
(Yeah)
Do you wanna touch me there, there, yeah?

My, my, my do you wanna touch me there?
Touch you, touch me touch, everybody
You touch me, you know where, there
Oh yeah, oh, yeah

Steve comes in: No, not there !!

Free KoolAid for all!

[mycroft16]

They still haven't owned up to the problem though. And when asked about it directly by gdgt, they changed the subject. gdgt: "You showed people almost covering the entire phone in their hand, but on the iPhone 4 it can happen with just a touch. Can you explain that difference? Bob (Apple): "When you touch the phone, you put yourself between the signal and your phone, so when you touch that spot you can attenuate the signal, and if you grip ti with your whole hand, you can attenuate it even more." That was a total non-answer. In fact, he answered it in reverse. In my office here we have 2 droids, an LG Voyager and some little trac-phone. We all tried holding them in a variety of ways, including how they showed phones behind held. None of our phones dropped bars. Yet the iPhone drops bars with the mere touch of a single finger tip. Not to mention the severe spin he put on his data at the start of the thing. It doesn't matter how many people are calling in with the problem, or what percentage change there is in dropped calls. The problem is the REASON for the dropped calls. Barely a touch to a spot that is guaranteed to be touched when on a call, is enough to drop signal strength to a point where calls are dropped. So how often it happens isn't the point. The point is there is a serious hardware/design flaw. One that definitely should have been noticed in testing. He even said on multiple occasions throughout the conference that he doesn't think there is a problem at all and that this whole thing is just blown way out of proportion. I'm sorry, but when Consumer Reports does their testing and can't recommend your product, that's not blown out of proportion.

Re:Free KoolAid for all!

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, you're lying right?

You said, "In my office here we have 2 droids, an LG Voyager and some little trac-phone. We all tried holding them in a variety of ways, including how they showed phones behind held. None of our phones dropped bars."

What you didn't say is that you have iPhones in your office too, and whether you tested in the same super-scientific way as these other four (4) phones.

So from what you've written, your assertion, "Yet the iPhone drops bars with the mere touch of a single finger tip," is TOTALLY UN-FUCKING-JUSTIFIED.

So which is it? Bad at science, or just lying? Insightful?

Re:Free KoolAid for all!

[kimvette]

The obvious solution is to get AT&T to put a cell tower on your property, like Apple did for their campus. Problem solved!

Apple is not stingy

[MemoryDragon]

they could have gone the cheaper way and just send out condoms ...

Free bumpers for all!

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, cats back for everyone. I am Lugash!

1 more dropped call can be a 100% increase

[dreadlord76]

The problem is, they couldn't share the absolute numbers. So according to Steve, it increased by 1 call per 100. If the original dropped call number was 1, then the increase is 100%. That is not insignificant. If the base number was 0.1 call dropped per 100, then we're talking about a 10X increase in dropped calls. The only way this can be insignificant, is if AT&T drops, let say, 50 calls per 100.
When following the live blogging, one thought that just keeps coming to my mind, about how Steve J told Steve W about how much they made. Do people really believe in Steve J?

Re:1 more dropped call can be a 100% increase

[macs4all]

The only way this can be insignificant, is if AT&T drops, let say, 50 calls per 100.

Well, according to this, AT&T thinks that THIRTY dropped calls per 100 is "normal" in certain areas (note that the article was written LONG BEFORE the iPhone 4 came out), so it seems like you just admitted that, depending on the circumstances, that the difference IS "insignificant".

BTW, Apple ADMITTED that there was an issue, and were now looking further into the matter.

WTF else would you have them do?

Re:1 more dropped call can be a 100% increase

[dreadlord76]

What they could have done, is said "on the iPhone 4, we are experiencing only a 3% increase in dropped calls vs iPhone3". They are using numbers to obfuscate the issue.
On the AppleCare numbers, they could have said "Out of all the calls we got on iPhone 4, only 1% of the calls were about the reception."
Notice that they cherry picked numbers, and presented in a way that sounds great, but have no real meaning. So what if only .55% of people called AppleCare about this issue? If that is 80% of their call volume, then it is a real problem affecting users.
From what I read, they didn't admit they had an issue. The tried to prove there isn't an Apple specific issue, and gave inconclusive numbers to try to bull**** their way through.
I don't want them to do anything. I want people who listens to them to think about what they heard, and that applies not only to a new conference, but also to what anyone says in a public forum.

Re:1 more dropped call can be a 100% increase

[dreadlord76]

BTW, if your computer saves only 7 out of 10 edits you made, would that be acceptable?
If AT&T is truly dropping 30 calls per 100, then that would be a real good reason to not get the iPhone, in any integer increment.
As an AT&T subscriber, not with an iPhone, I can tell you that my dropped call rate is probably less than 1%. That is Anecdotal data, and you shouldn't put too much value into that.

Re:1 more dropped call can be a 100% increase

[dzfoo]

"So what if only 0.55% of people called AppleCare about this issue? If that is 80% of their call volume, then it is a real problem affecting users. "

How do you reconcile that?

If less than 1% of the customers who purchase an iPhone 4 are calling to complain about a specific problem, how does the total call volume change its significance? Unless you are implying that it is a significant problem for Apple, since their overall call volume increased.

Yes, it is a real problem affecting 0.55% of users. Steve Jobs admitted this much, and said he apologizes to those users, and offered them a free bumper case.

"From what I read, they didn't admit they had an issue. The tried to prove there isn't an Apple specific issue, and gave inconclusive numbers to try to bull**** their way through. "

We must not have read the same transcripts. Steve Jobs, as quoted by various "live-blogs", said: "Now when we look at this data, it's hard to escape the conclusion that there is a problem, but that problem is affecting a very small number of users."

http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/16/live-from-apples-iphone-4-press-conference/?sort=newest&refresh=60

      -dZ.

Re:1 more dropped call can be a 100% increase

[macs4all]

The tried to prove there isn't an Apple specific issue

Actually, I think they fairly well proved that. They didn't "try" to prove it. They did.

And, there's even plenty more INDEPENDENT (albeit anecdotal) evidence around the tubes that this "dropped calls" thing is NOT just an "iPhone 4" issue:

Re:1 more dropped call can be a 100% increase

[Anonymous Coward]

1 more dropped calls per 100 3gs dropped calls.

101 iphone4 dropped calls.
100 3gs dropped calls.

Re:1 more dropped call can be a 100% increase

[dreadlord76]

I happen to have some training on how customer service works. One of the key things you watch for, is patterns. You should be able to rank the root causes by percentage, and then tackle why you are getting those calls. Fixing the higher percentage issues is going to give you bigger bang for the buck.
There are a few pieces of data missing for the 0.55% number:
1. how many iPhone customers actually call Apple support overall? If the previous % was 0.5%, and now 0.55% of users are calling about reception, that is very significant.
2. how many of the 0.55% was previous iPhone owners? If that percentage is high, then you have a degradation of service from the upgrade
3. how were the 0.55% resolved? Was the customer happy after the call?
If you use Apple's number, 0.55% out of 1.7 million means 9350 calls have been placed by their customers to complain about this. That means, up to 10,000 customer are annoyed enough with the problem to call. I don;t think any business can ignore the opinion of 9350 customer. Or do you think 9350 is a small number?

Re:1 more dropped call can be a 100% increase

[dzfoo]

>> If you use Apple's number, 0.55% out of 1.7 million means 9350 calls have been placed by their customers to complain about this. That means, up to 10,000 customer are annoyed enough with the problem to call. I don;t think any business can ignore the opinion of 9350 customer. Or do you think 9350 is a small number?

I do not think it is a small number, nor do I think Apple is ignoring those customers. They did have a press event about it today. However, you need to put that number into perspective: the problem is affecting a very small percentage of customers, and not to the majority as implied by much of the articles on the subject.

It is a problem, and even Steve Jobs expressly said this, but one that is affecting a relatively small number of users, compared to the vast majority of those to whom it is not.

        -dZ.

Re:1 more dropped call can be a 100% increase

[PrecambrianRabbit]

I'm not sure that "X% worse than the iPhone 3G" is the best way to judge significance here. It seems like "dropped calls per N attempted calls" is the most useful number, from a user's point of view. Of course, the absolute number does matter, but I think it would be just as misleading to say "iPhone4 1000% worse than iPhone 3G!!!!" in the scenario you describe.

Not true-

[WiiVault]

In the Q&A Jobs specifically apologized to those who have been effected. Yes he did say that they were a small number of customers, but he did say he was sorry for those effected. And hey there is still more than a week to get a full refund, seems fairly straightforward to me

"We love our users"

[metamatic]

Three slides of "We love our users". Oh really?

If you love your users, set them free. End the iPhone/iPad jail.

I'm a Mac and iPod user, but the jail has made me an Android phone user.

Re:"We love our users"

[MassacrE]

Unfortunately, the majority of the users like the jail, and the majority of their competitors have copied the model.

Praise be to Jobs

[electron sponge]

Hallowed be thy name

0.55% of all iPhone 4 users have called

[masmullin]

"0.55% of all iPhone 4 users have called in to complain about reception problems" Maybe that's because THEY CANT call!

"... for just 22 days."

[killfixx]

I'm calling shenanigans on this one...

Months of testing is done on every device before it goes out the door. Then it undergoes months of testing with the carrier. Then it gets released to the public.

This was a known flaw.

Of course, their anechoic chambers are beautiful! A beautiful way to make Consumer Reports look like amateurs.

There's so much spin going on, I can't express how flabbergasted I am!

And to point the finger at other people. C'mon!!

That's just childish and petty. Accountability should be SOP for any business. When Toyota had their accelration problems, they did the same run around. Pointing fingers at anything but the actual issue, and it's still happening.

Any company that treats it's customers like this doesn't deserve the customers it has.

That goes for ANY company.

Arrgghh!!

These CEOs are the rolemodels for tomorrows graduating MBAs.

We truly are doomed.

Kung Fu Death Grip on my phone

[Anonymous Coward]

I have an old plain phone (LG UX260)- its a slider model from a couple years ago. I gave it a two handed kung fu death grip while on a call and not even one bar was lost, nor was the call. Is this purely a smartphone problem?

Book of Jobs

[aapold]

Lets see how that metaphor works out. Steve Jobs is talking with Gates about how much one particular customer loves him, defends him on message boards to no end etc...... Gates suggests this fanboy only likes Steve and Apple because they love the phones, if that changes then they will curse him. So to prove Gates wrong, Gates takes away his reception and signal strength, but this fanboy still refuses to curse or reproach apple. Gates asks if he can have a go at making his life miserable, and Steve says go ahead so long as you don't kill him, and then all manner of problems beset him, poor face detection, at&t bundling, etc, making his life miserable. His wife and his friends all encourage him to curse Apple, but he refuses to do so.

Steve finally has heard enough and speaks, giving a speech saying that he is not answerable to questions like other men, that he has experiences which ordinary mortals have not, and basically establishes that Steve has the right to do whatever he will with his creation, beyond reproach, and no one can question him. He then blesses the loyal apple fanboy, gives him free upgrades and a 140-year contract, and condemns his friends to windows mobile hell (althought he fanboy writes emails to Steve asking him to forgive his friends).

Hrm. not sure I shoudl have used an apple in a biblical parallel...

What about an iPad fix???

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn thing drops its wifi connection all the time.

3G seems to work OK however.

Re:What about an iPad fix???

[AnotherShep]

Released yesterday. Update.

September 30?

[the_arrow]

So what about people buying the phone after September 30? Will they not get a case? Will Apple modify the phone by then? (Of course, I didn't read TFA.)
As a side-note, I am a leftie that do hold my HTC Hero the "wrong way", without any problem what so ever.

Re:September 30?

[StuartHankins]

They are giving all people who either already bought a phone or have one on order adequate time to determine if the case fixes their problem, because changing devices is chaotic and time-consuming. For new users, they have been aptly warned and they have enough time to back out, change their mind, etc, before disrupting their plans.

In the meantime, you can bet they're working on the issue. I think it's a very reasonable approach actually.

Re:September 30?

[crossword.bob]

They were asked about that in the Q&A and apparently the date is just a line in the sand that they will be reviewing later with more data. Take from that what you will, I'm just the messenger ;-)

Those are some yummy freshly picked cherries.

[WiiVault]

In the exact same Q/A an iPhone owner said he couldn't replicate it in the building to which Jobs said that it doesn't really apply to areas with good signal. Like ya know... the Apple Campus. Way to cherry pick. Or do you actually think Apple just made that video up and lied in a verifiable way to the assembled media?

Re:Those are some yummy freshly picked cherries.

[Anonymous Coward]

I have been unable to reproduce the signal loss on my iphone 4. It definitely doesn't happen everywhere.

R/C Aircraft controlled by iPhone

[IflyRC]

Have you seen those RC aircraft that are controlled by the iPhone? They use the accelerometer. If it sticks - that could be a huge problem especially if you've got a few guys flying near traffic.

Re:R/C Aircraft controlled by iPhone

[hazydave]

Well, that's your own damn fault if you use the iPhone that way. Actual R/C radio controllers have to pass a number of certifications to be legal for sale in the USA (I designed a number of ground-based R/C controllers for Nomadio, Inc.... I know the industry). Anyone using a toy like the iPhone to control a plane is just asking for a disaster. The only question is when it'll fail, not if it will.

Re:R/C Aircraft controlled by iPhone

[IflyRC]

I'm not disagreeing with you - just saying that there are some people out there using it in that way - just "because they can". iPhone Controlled RC Helicopter

Actually it wasn't even over

[WiiVault]

One thing that always bugs me is that despite being weeks late 95% of the time, when Slashdot covers Apple events they always post before the Q&A or speaker is even done. Thus the discussion gets flooded with random misinformed comments before it is even over.

Invested $100 million in antenna technology?

[Anonymous Coward]

Huh?
Maybe in the machines to make them? Certainly not in engineering and test time. That's somewhere around 300 work years, and somehow, I don't think Apple has had 100 engineers toiling on just the antenna for the last 3 years. Heck, there probably aren't 100 skilled wireless device antenna engineers in all of silicon valley combined.

The iPhone song that started the press conf

[llamafirst]

The iPhone 4 song video that started the press conf... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKIcaejkpD4&feature=player_embedded

Moderators: I am not joking, the New York Times report from the press conference reported this...

In other words...

[llamafirst]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKIcaejkpD4&feature=player_embedded

Good Case?

[skeptical_monster]

I'm not sure Steve made a good enough case for this.

Thank you, I'll be here all week....

Re:Good Case?

[Anonymous Coward]

In Soviet Russia iPhone case offers you apple!

Bullshit

[Anonymous Coward]

"Steve Jobs started by showing that the problem wasn't limited to iPhones, using videos of the BlackBerry Bold 9700..."

Anecdotal, but...I own a BlackBerry Bold 9700 and am using AT&T. I have had zero problems with reception, signal meter, or anything else. I don't use a case or skin of any kind, just the phone and the accessories that were included at the time of purchase, and I travel frequently. I don't own a roll of duct tape, either, so I would like to take this opportunity to thank Mr. Jobs for concluding my social experiment on confirmation bias, because I now know that he really is an arrogant jackass.

I don't get it.

[blair1q]

I don't get it.

How will a piece of hardware solve a software problem?

It is a software problem. Steve Jobs said it was. It was all about how the bars were being reported. Yes it was. Yes it was. You can look it up on the internet.

Look, I'm done arguing with you if you're not going to listen.

Apple's secrecy masked the problem during testing?

[Coward Anonymous]

As was documented with the iPhone 4 that was discovered in the bar, Apple was very careful to camouflage iPhone 4 test units in cases to make them look like an older 3G or 3GS unit.

It's very likely that all iPhone 4 field testing was done with cases which would shield the antenna from grubby testers' hands and mask the problem. In other words, Apple's secrecy protocol interfered with proper field testing.

The irony.

Simple math

[InvisiBill]

But only .5% (not 5 percent, half a percent) of users have even reported the problem.

And how many users comprise .5%?

Based on 3 million iPhone 4's sold, that'd be 15,000.

Re:Simple math

[IKnwThePiecesFt]

Not so simple, it's .5% of Applecare cases, not .5% of iPhone 4 users. So the actual answer is much smaller as undoubtedly most iPhone users have never called customer service.

Re:Simple math

[WiiVault]

You responded to the wrong dude I think.

Re:Simple math

[InvisiBill]

Not so simple, it's .5% of Applecare cases, not .5% of iPhone 4 users. So the actual answer is much smaller as undoubtedly most iPhone users have never called customer service.

Nope, it's .5% (Jobs actually said .55%) of all iPhone 4 users.

Next, some really interesting data from AppleCare, we looked at the statistics, we asked what's the percentage of all iPhone 4 users that have called AppleCare about the antenna or reception, or anything near reception problems. Because you would have thought 'Jesus, it must be a lot of users complaining about this' -- So what percentage have called AppleCare? 0.55% Just one half of one percent.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/07/iphone-reception-pc-0894-rm-eng.jpg is the slide stating the same thing. The extra .05% would actually bump that number up to 16,500.

As others have stated, that number may not mean much, since most people were aware that *something* was going to be done about it, and therefore a number of people may have held off on calling about it. But approximately 16,500 iPhone 4 users did call AppleCare regarding the antenna/reception.

Okay, this fixes the antenna problem but..

[hilather]

Now my iPhone doesn't look as cool and stylish as it use to.

... and after September?

[Mr_Silver]

So Apple are going to give away a free bumper to owners of the iPhone 4 until September.

After then ... what? There are only three possible options:

1. They'll continue to offer a free bumper to new customers whilst pissing off the third party case manufacturers - and be stuck in the position of having to continue to admit that the device design is flawed unless you use a bumper.
2. They'll stop the offer - and be stuck in the position of having to admit to people that if they want to avoid signal issues, then not only must they buy the phone but them immediately buy a £25 bumper to get the best out it.
3. They'll issue some sort of fix (probably by coating the antenna) and roll it into the next batch of devices - meaning that they can stop the free bumper deal and get back to selling it for a 12x mark-up as an accessory.

Option (3) seems to be the only viable possibility to me.

Non-answer answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Q: I use my iPhone in heavily-congested San Francisco. Does the handset have any role in congestion management?

A: Steve: I'll let Scott answer that one, but I'll say this...when AT&T wants to add a tower in Texas, it takes three weeks. When they want to do it in San Francisco, it takes three years. No one wants it in their backyard. AT&T is investing, but it takes time.

No answer from Scott. Steve's answer is about as useful as being told that Earth is still round.

If the Droid fanboys had been running the show...

[rclandrum]

[Jobs comes out on stage, walks to the front, and immediately falls to his knees, hands held clasped in front of him]

SJ[with tears streaming down his face]: Oh Heavenly Pundits, we do beseech thee in this our hour of need. Deliver us from the taint of Bad Publicity that has afflicted us and bring us once more into the light of your divine Good Graces and Four-star Reviews. [bows head in abject shame]

Droid-lovers: Stone Him!

SJ: I humbly beg thy indulgence that I might offer unto thee a most inadequate but heartfelt explanation of The Antenna Curse of Doom.

DLs: You but delay the inevitable, sinner. But we grant thee leave to offer your confession.

SJ: Tis' true, Oh Pundits, that mine device doth exhibit the ACOD, and for this I most humbly apologize to any who have been afflicted.

DLs: All are afflicted when in your vile presence, devil. But continue. We are amused.

SJ: We wouldst offer up the results of our Most Extensive Testing that shows all other devices of like manufacture doth exhibit the same ACOD when fondled in proper fashion.

DLs: Have a care blasphemer, that our patience not run too thin. Dost thou accuse OUR devices of such abominations? [many sidelong glances amidst hefting of stones for proper weight]

SJ: Twas likely an error in the data, your Droidness. Speaking for our abjectly substandard device alone, we most humbly offer a Worthless Placating Solution.

DLs: And what might this worthless solution consist of, worm?

SJ: We propose to wall up the Antenna Curse of Doom behind a Permeable Barrier of Cheap Plastic, oh sage one.

DLs: Well, we would much prefer that you be stoned and simply go away, that we might rule the earth in peace, as the great God Google intended.

SJ: Again, we would beseech thy awesomeness to allow us to distribute our PBCP solution, that we might Dodge The Issue and continue to develop devices that you can cop...er...make fun of.

DLs: Very well. You shall be allowed to Mask The Problem by giving away free crap.

SJ: Oh thank you, thank you!

DLs: Drool not on our cloak, worm. Begone. Next time we bring the rocks.

SJ: [slinks away]

[end conference]

And after Sept 30??

[weiyuent]

It's interesting that no-one seems to be paying special attention to the Sept 30 expiration of Apple's offer of free Bumper cases. In my mind, that hints at a few troubling scenarios that aren't properly addressed by today's press conference:

A) Apple will end up providing free cases for the iPhone 4 indefinitely.

B) After Sept 30, you have to pay for a case to solve a problem with the iPhone 4 that Apple officially acknowledges.

C) After Sept 30, revised iPhone 4 hardware will be hitting the shelves.

Both (A) and (B) seem highly unlikely...which leads me to believe (C) is the likely outcome. But course Apple doesn't want to cannibalize sales of existing iPhone 4 stock and slow down sales momentum, so they're keeping info about revised hardware under a very tight wrap. Maybe that means you should buy an iPhone 4 just yet?

Re:And after Sept 30??

[Zorque]

Why does case B seem unlikely to you? This is the same company that made you pay $2 to enable an existing wireless connection on their laptops.

Re:And after Sept 30??

[Anonymous Coward]

Option 'B' is the closest one to the answer, but not exactly. The difference is that Apple does not "officially acknowledge" that there's a problem. What was said was that this is something all cell phones experience, and that there's no actual problem with iPhone 4. Apple is giving the cases out of goodwill and the goodness of Steve's heart. If you buy your iPhone after that date, you're doing so already fully informed about the situation, which is that there is no problem, but calls may be dropped if you hold it in certain ways. If you're worried about this problem, buying another phone won't solve it for you, because every phone experiences.

No, none of that is true. That is, however, Apples' official position.

Re:And after Sept 30??

[AndOne]

Option D: The bumper starts coming standard with all iphone4's sold and if you want some other case you have to spend money on it? But it will take until September 30 to get production to the point where that is possible.

They are after all only providing free cases because they can't produce enough bumpers to provide free bumpers for all.

Option C: Seems highly unlikely to me as I just don't see Apple as a company or culture changing their manufacturing process this soon into a product and/or completely redesigning their product. Especially given that a full hardware redesign or modification as you propose would be tantamount to full admission that this problem is that severe and they've already been burned in the PR dept for things like discounting first(or was it second gen) iphones too quickly before. Plus the only quick fix they could probably roll out in 2.5 months would be some sort of clear coat on the metal which would just seem 'tacky' in the mind of the designers at Apple. Who knows, I'm not an antenna engineer, maybe there is something they could do in the manufacturing process to change things that quickly.

Re:And after Sept 30??

[I kan Spl]

C is extremely unlikely.

They would need to get FCC and regulatory approval before releasing a modified hardware. The FCC takes longer then between now and September to review the hardware.

Products being reviewed are public. Nothing has been submitted as of yet.

Re:And after Sept 30??

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly. Option D has occurred before. Include it in the box.

The original iPod Nano was very susceptible to scratching. Apple denied this, however they decided to include a free slip case in the box a few months later.

Didn't offer one to existing owners though - but thats what you get for buying Apple rev1 hardware.

Re:And after Sept 30??

[snowwrestler]

After September 30 the tech media cycle will be on to the next OMG issue. By then Apple will know if this is a really problem with lots of customers, or just a media feeding frenzy.

I think right now they truly believe that their data show that this is mostly a PR problem. If their return and complaint numbers don't go up in the next two months, they'll continue to hold that opinion. If returns and complaints do go up, they'll have to come up with a better solution.

New from Apple

[elrous0]

The iDenial(TM), the smart new way to shift blame.

Price

[danieltdp]

It is interesting to note that the freaking plastic case costs 30 bucks! I know iphone 4 owners will get one for free, but c'mon, 30 bucks for a piece of plastic!?

Here is a link about it

So if the case gift ends on September 30th

[Shivetya]

does that mean a) they have a new design that they will ensure as being the only one shipped then or b) your shit out of luck after that date?

How would I demo this?

[jc42]

The Steve is quoted as saying "This is life in the smartphone world. Phones aren't perfect. It's a challenge for the whole industry. Every phone has weak spots."

Naturally, I wanted to test this. So I pulled out my G!, and tried holding it in various ways. I'd seen the iPhone videos, where the signal-strength "bars" fell slowly, dropping by 1 every 5 or 10 seconds, so when I tested a grip, I held it for about 30 sec. My signal strength started at 3 (of 4) bars. I found that no matter how I held it, the indicated strength never fell below 3 bars. For a while, it went to 4, so I re-tested the previous couple of grips, but it stayed at 4 bars. After a while, it fell back to 3 bars and stayed there, and when I retested the previous (3-bar) grips, they all showed 4 bars.

Conclusion: I couldn't find the grip that makes a G1 lose the signal. I even tried completely surrounding the phone with both hands, and holding it completely covered against my chest, but nothing I tried had any visible effect.

So what's the "weak spot" grip of the G1, which Steve says exists? Anyone know?

A bit of googling, but didn't find the grip. I did find a few comments about sporadic reboots during calls, which of course will lose the call, but I haven't seen that.

It could be interesting to collect such info about lots of models of phones and put them online. Just reading assertions made by a vendor in a press conference isn't really all that useful for product comparison purposes.

Re:How would I demo this?

[nathanh]

This is why you're not an RF engineer. You need to in a marginal signal strength area before the Death Grip works on any phone. Obviously you're in a strong signal area. This is also why the majority of iPhone 4 owners can't replicate the problem. This is also why Apple created a special RF testing chamber specifically to test their phones at different signal levels. Basically Apple performed science. You are performing Mythbusters.

Anechoic chamber

[danieltdp]

For those curious and lazy to look it up:

An anechoic chamber is a room designed to stop reflections of either sound or electromagnetic waves

From wikipedia

Mod Parent Up!

[dreadlord76]

If I had mod points, I would mod your post up, purely for informational content.
I love reading about information, than numbers designed to obfuscate.
Kudos!

New Apple Theme Song?

[DrackenFireBreather]

To the tune of "Home on the Range"

Oh give me a phone
that I can say that I own,
but the manufacturers say 'no way'.

Where I download an app,
but they say that it's crap,
and take it off without me saying 'ok'.

Oh! Oh! The shame!
Where the iPhone is pwning me all day!

Where seldom is heard
because the antenna is a turd
and drops my calls when I "hold it that way"!

clueless...

[Anonymous Coward]

Right, his questioning the methods by which the statistics are gathered is a far worse thing than, say, not asking the question at all.

He points out the statistics don't mean what you think they mean and you retort that he has no proof otherwise? Really now, did you comprehend anything he said at all?

You can't build conclusions made in the presentation over such faulty statistics nor without understanding the methods that were used to gather them. All businesses do this, all create data to prove the point they are trying to make. Your post shows you have no idea how business (and PR departments) work. I bet you had Enron stock.

Re:clueless...

[Americano]

But he's not questioning "the methods by which the statistics are gathered," he's simply saying "They lied, the statistics are invalid, and this problem is way worse than they're painting it to be." Nowhere does he "question" the statistics, and the methods. He simply asserts that things must not be the way Apple and ATT say because HE FEELS that it's "safe to assume" and "more likely" that those statistics are underreporting the problem by vast amounts. He offered no evidence to substantiate his feelings, he offered no additional data, just some speculation.

He points out the statistics don't mean what you think they mean and you retort that he has no proof otherwise?

No, he asserts blindly that the statistics are invalid, and offers nothing but speculation as to how they are invalid. If he had said, "It's likely that those statistics underreport the severity," I could agree with that, and then we'd be discussing the scale of the underreporting, perhaps by finding additional data to illustrate.

Instead, he says that the statistics are bald-faced lies, speculates as to how they MUST be lies, and then says that - based on that speculation - the problem is obviously far far worse than anybody realizes, and that Apple knowingly shipped a new product with a known and significant engineering defect which is a close spiritual successor to the Ford Pinto.

If he wanted to debate the validity of the statistics, perhaps he should have offered actual data to support his claims, rather than speculation, hmm?

Does the refund include a music player?

[tupletuple]

Lots of people with IPhones have considerable investment in apps and, ever moreso, in itunes music. Recently having gotten a droid, I can say that it has become my main portable music player. How can anyone say to simply return the Iphone4 when its clearly more complicated than that? Will a return come with an app that will allow a different phone to play music from itunes? /s Finally, my early on decision not to take part in any of these f*cked up drm schemes is sounding like a very wise decision.

Conversation overheard at Apple

[null etc.]

My head spins at the logic - Apple knowingly makes the antenna dysfunctional solely to make the phone look sexy, but requires the antenna to be covered up anyway by an ugly case.

Also, there is a simple engineering fix to this problem which doesn't sacrifice the design - cover the antenna with a thin layer of insulator, and then cover that insulator with an ultra thin layer of metal as a facade that looks indistinguishable from the current antenna.

Re:Conversation overheard at Apple

[macs4all]

Also, there is a simple engineering fix to this problem which doesn't sacrifice the design - cover the antenna with a thin layer of insulator, and then cover that insulator with an ultra thin layer of metal as a facade that looks indistinguishable from the current antenna.

Boy, you have just proven that you know JACK SHIT about antenna design. It simply isn't that simple.

Re:Conversation overheard at Apple

[null etc.]

I disagree, but feel free to enlighten me.

Re:Conversation overheard at Apple

[macs4all]

I disagree, but feel free to enlighten me.

Ok, I will.

Antenna design for hand-held devices at these frequencies and power levels is not exactly trivial, and minimizing the effect of the human body (hand) on the antenna characteristics is the subject of much research in the industry.

http://lup.lub.lu.se/luur/download?func=downloadFile&fileOId=1152137

http://www.rfm.com/corp/appdata/antenna.pdf

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/120848913/articletext?DOI=10.1002%2Fmop.23715

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel5/11208/36089/01710996.pdf

http://e-citations.ethbib.ethz.ch/view/pub:18638

http://www.waset.org/journals/waset/v49/v49-156.pdf

http://www.amazon.com/Hands-effect-Shahla-Moradi-Shahrbabak/dp/3639175425

http://www.google.com/search?q=effect+of+hand+on+antenna&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&ei=GbZBTOP-NIP-8Aaw_aUZ&start=10&sa=N

http://rfdesign.com/mag/505RFDF1.pdf

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/ijap/2009/491262.html

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fiel5%2F4913660%2F4957855%2F04958011.pdf%3Farnumber%3D4958011&authDecision=-203

http://wireless.per.nl/wireless/articles/08_WIC_correlated_coupled_MIMO.pdf

http://www.impinj.com/WorkArea/linkit.aspx?LinkIdentifier=id&ItemID=2563>

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.66.2119&rep=rep1&type=pdf

http://202.194.20.8/proc/VTC09Spring/DATA/02-07-08.PDF

AND THAT'S IN JUST THE FIRST THREE PAGES OF MY GOOGLE SEARCH!!!!!!!!!!

Note that this "antennaphile" site called the iPhone 4's antenna design "cool", and said to expect to see other manufacturers adopting similar designs.

Note that the forum thread linked below says that your hand can affect a GHz-band antenna from as far way as 3cm. So where on a phone that is FAR less than 1cm. thick are you going to place that antenna that WON'T have "hand-effects" to some degree? Now, factor in the fact that the FCC MANDATES that the antenna be on the LOWER half of the phone (where your hand naturally grips!), and you can readily see that, as Jobs stated (and demonstrated), EVERY cellphone suffers from the presence of the user. Keep that in mind when you hear people proclaim "NO other phone has these issues." WRONG! EVERY cellphone struggles mightily with this limitation (the presence of the user

correct title of article

[jbr439]

Apple Offers Free Cases To Work Around iPhone 4 Antenna Problems

There we go, fixed that for ya.

Guess the Class Action lawsuit goes away

[Anonymous Coward]

Since the lawsuit was based on "restocking fees" etc, this should nullify the lawsuit. Of course that only gives "day 1" purchasers 7 days to return the phone. Lawsuit about the time factor as well?

interpetation

[geekoid]

"Here is a goody, please don't force us to recall the phone."

1100% more dropped calls.

[AmigaHeretic]

Why the 100? It drops 1 more per 100. What if the 3GS only drops 1 call per 1000?

That means the 3GS on average drops 0.1 calls per 100.

Then the iPhone 4G drops 1.1 calls per 100 or 1100% more dropped calls.

wherefrom the fear, uncertainty and doubt

[Gary W. Longsine]

Let's ask where the FUD comes from. Anonymous Cowards, disproportionately. Do you, by chance, work for Microsoft, RIM, Nokia, or some other competitor? What's your anonymous agenda, eh?

Well that's fscking obvious, isn't it?

[CFD339]

Anyone with half a wit paying attention would have guessed this. I told my daughter that would happen when we spoke about it two days ago.

look:

The iPhone antenna doesn't work if you hand touches the side in some spots.
The problem goes away if you have a case.
The majority of people want a case anyway - there's a huge aftermarket for cases.
Cases sell for around twenty bucks, but can be found for less than ten, and probably cost less than 3 to make.
Fixing the phone itself would require a new body, and significant time per phone to replace them.

Apple can solve this problem by spending less than 10 dollars per phone by giving everyone with an iPhone a case. Hell, they should just contract with some of the third party vendors (belkin, griffen, whatever) and mail the iphone users a coupon. Problem solved.

If they've got time, they could make a specifically generic looking white case that does the job but still leaves customers wanting a fancy third party case so as not to piss off their third party ecosystem, but I doubt apple gives a crap about that group anyway.

Mommy I failed but

[BlkRb0t]

Mommy I failed but some of my friends failed too, so it shouldn't matter right?

data

[Gary W. Longsine]

Even more interesting statistics would concern the numbers of dropped calls at a given signal strength. I know one iPhone 4 user who's getting better reception (much better) in a area that he's highly familiar with (his house). It seems likely that, for any given phone, most of the dropped calls take place at the edge of the reception area, with low signal strength. If I were inside Apple or AT&T looking at this problem, I'd want to see logging data for "dropped calls by signal strength", and even "dropped calls by signal strength events". In five bar zones there shouldn't be any dropped calls under normal (non congested) conditions, without an associated event, such as "signal strength dropped from 100% to Zero Percent, phone was in motion".

Does the bumper fix the problem?

[Anonymous Coward]

So, silly question here:

Do the bumpers fix the reception problem? I've seen lots of suggestion they do but would appreciate a cite to a study.

Preferably a cite where a left-handed user checks it out.

What about calls never connected

[Anonymous Coward]

What if the extra dropped calls were all in areas where the 3GS couldn't even initially connect due to weak signal? What if the iPhone 4 actually connects 10 more calls in weak areas than the 3GS but 1 of those is dropped? Isn't that still an improvement?

I don't have a dog in this fight (don't own any smartphone) but some of the reviews suggest this may actually be the case. As with all statistics, it's easy to come to very misleading conclusions if you don't have the whole picture.

Motive indeed.

[nobodyman]

Gizmodo is a third party, and they have been pretty consistent in reporting on both points of view on this issue.

Actually Gizmodo may have an axe to grind, too. And the difference in reporting w.r.t. Apple since the "lost iphone" debacle is pronounced.

0.55%

[StikyPad]

0.55% of 1.7M iPhones (the number of units sold in the first 3 days -- presumably more have been sold since then) is still 9,350 people. And considering that for each actual complaint, there are anywhere between 10 and 25 people with the same problem who *don't* complain, that's a lot of people.

Furthermore, *every* iPhone 4 that was tested (that I've seen) has the problem. A supposed lack of consumer awareness doesn't negate that fact. Citing a low and mostly irrelevant statistic is a transparent attempt to downplay the problems of a phone that loses a signal when you hold it like a phone. It's like buying a new car with chipped paint, and the dealer saying "Oh, well, we'll throw in a free car cover, then nobody will see the chips."

At least they've dropped the "restocking fee" for returning the phone, but it's all pretty poor service in my opinion. What I see is a CEO trying to call a bluff. "Really? You don't like it? Then return it." I honestly hope thousands of people return their phones, even if they buy a new one when the problem is truly resolved.

Re:0.55%

[Anonymous Coward]

> there are anywhere between 10 and 25 people with the same > problem who *don't* complain, that's a lot of people. I'm curious, did you pull this number out of your ass or someone else's?

Simple math

[alvinrod]

Go read the anandtech article and do some simple math. If you're right next to a tower even holding the phone in such a way as too make the signal as bad as possible, it'll still read five bars. If you're right on the edge of a five bar rating and do the same it can drop it to one or no bars. There are plenty of anecdotal accounts of people who can't reproduce the issue. These people have five bars and really god signal. The people who experience the issue probably have five bars and spotty service. You really can't trust the bars, even still since they aren't a very good indicator of signal. I'd prefer a straight numerical measurement.

uh...

[Gary W. Longsine]

"My wife and I have both had problems "

You're not doing it right.

Laws of Physics

[notknown86]

We haven't found a way around the laws of physics yet.

My Motorola Milestone (Droid) has just broken the laws of physics, then! 5 bars no matter how I hold it! Who's got the magical device now, huh,Steve Jobs?

Can you sue?

[obie23]

According to http://www.theusdaily.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=1142010&type=Business, someone named Goodglick and McCaffrey sued apple, probably we can do that too?

Apple vs. Physics

[frostilicus2]

This is ridiculous. It appears to me that Apple has not released a bad product per se, they've released a good product within the confines of the technology that currently exists.

As I understand it, all smartphones can suffer from some degree of signal attenuation and this is usually caused by the inherent limitations of current antennae design as opposed to careless design or testing by the manufacturer. This is just the nature of antennae - they're complicated and so far, no one has discovered a perfect design. In time, one would hope though that given enough R&D dollars, we will find a better antennae.

This is not surprising and it certainly isn't cause for uproar.

Whether Apple and others should be bundling bumper cases is a different question (I don't know how wide spread signal attenuation problems are, but if they're sizable and a bumper case solves the issue then, IMHO, all phones should come with bumper cases).

(By the way, I don't use an iPhone, I use a BlackBerry 8120 and signal attenuation occasionally causes issues given poor network coverage. Maybe if I ask nicely, RIM will send me a shiny new bumper case too).

Free cases until September?

[hao3]

Does this mean they'll have fixed the problem in new iPhones by September? I've been waiting to buy one because of this. Wondering if I should wait a little longer..

Says a lot about ethics

[Dunbal]

When you're in trouble, smear the competitors too. Well done, Steve. Walked by an Apple store today - still full of the brainless zombies. Fools, money, soon parted.

Apple puts its testing methods online

[macs4all]

Apple has posted both a video of the Press Conference, and a DETAILED explanation of their testing of their, and their competitors' phones.

But now, let's watch all the Apple-Haters come out and say "They rigged the tests!" in 3...2...1

Playing devil's advocate

[Anonymous Coward]

So the iPhone 4 drops more calls than the 3GS. We can all agree on that. But is that the whole story? Some reviews (Anandtech) said it can place more calls in low signal areas than the 3GS. So, what if it successfully places 10 more calls and drops 2 of those. If you only look at #dropped calls, it looks much worse. But if you look at total successful calls, it's actually quite a bit better in that case.

Statistics can be tricky. If you don't look at the entire picture, your conclusion will be wrong 72% of the time.

Evil Quicktime ahead

[Anonymous Coward]

The video of the event is up: http://events.apple.com.edgesuite.net/100716iab73asc/event/index.html

If Apple Built a Car

[BondGamer]

People would complain about having to fill it with gas. Apple did all the right things here yet some people are acting like they are going to force their users to keep their broken phones which get no reception. Never mind about being able to get a full refund within 30 days or a free case or just holding the phone like a normal phone.

Re:If Apple Built a Car

[Anonymous Coward]

Bad Car analogy. Everyone knows that petrol cars need petrol and diesel cars need diesel but people cannot be expected to know not to hold a handheld phone a certain way in order to use it.

oh, for shame

[Anonymous Coward]

"Steve Jobs (quoted by Mobilecrunch): “Maybe everyone thought we were perfect"

great post

[Anonymous Coward]

Now THIS is why I still read Slashdot - this is definitely highly insightful and not something I've read in any of the analysis. Awesome!

New problem found!

[Anonymous Coward]

Now the battery discharges too quickly.

Soulskill is the new kdawson

[Anonymous Coward]

This is SLASHVERTISEMENT, no picture of fix, just ADVERTISEMENT, pics of steves slideshow selling the new iphone

The Man (tm) has a history of doing that.

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple engineers were aware of the risks associated with the new antenna design as early as a year ago, but Chief Executive Steve Jobs liked the design so much that Apple went ahead with its development, said another person familiar with the matter.

Remeber Apple III. At Steve J.'s insistent, the unit has no active cooling. With sheer number of parts crammed into a small space, enough heat were produced to warp the logic board and work the chips out of their sockets. But that's okay, since the case looked nice and it contains no annoying sound emitting component... like a (badly) needed cooling fan.

Then St.Steve went ahead and did it again on the original compact Macintosh line. It wasn't till Macintosh SE a cooling fan was finally incorporated into the product. I recall seeing warped plastic and scorch marks on earlier compact Macintosh when I was working in a repair shop a few decades ago.

A Real Solution

[jmactacular]

Exactly. Since most people grip their phone on the sides, why not move this second band gap to the bottom of the phone? What happens when people touch the gap on the top of the phone?

apple left out the Q/A section on video on website

[Anonymous Coward]

anyone else notice..apple left the Q/A session off the version of the press conference on thier website.

meh

[zmollusc]

This should be a non-issue. All slashdotters will, by appropriate forming of the brim and crown, simply ensure the aerial's gain is enhanced when the phone touches their tinfoil-clad heads.

Misleading defense

[Cyberllama]

Saying that the phone dropped an average of less than 1 per 100 additional dropped calls is potentially a very misleading stat. What percentage did the 3gs drop? 1 in 100? If so, then that's potentially as much as a 100% increase in dropped calls. And ignoring dropped calls, sometimes you can't even dial the call in the first place if you're holding it. At least a dropped call indicates you were able to start the call to begin with.

How arrogant can you get?

[Loopy]

"We think our phone is fine; no worse than the other phones out there. Oh, and the antenna-shorting-out-when-held-a-certain-way issue? Yeah, that's not really a problem with the antenna. But we're gonna give you these bumpers/cases anyway just so you'll STFU and go away. Now STFU and buy more Apple products, you lemmings." -- Steve Jobs after a month off his Prozac

I love how

[ILongForDarkness]

The presentation quotes Consumer Reports saying that the Bumper fixes the problem and then Steve goes on to say they can't make enough Bumpers so they'll give you another case for free. Hmm, what if that other case doesn't fix the problem? If Bumpers are the fix then Bumpers it should be. If they can't produce them quick enough then they should subsidize your phone bill until they get you into a working condition.

How does a bumper help the 3GS?

[Milo77]

When he gave his theory why the iPhone4 drops more calls than the 3GS he says its because people already had bumpers. How does a bumper help reception on the 3GS? The 3GS's antenna isn't external, so you can't touch it. Having a bumper or not wouldn't make any difference at all. Lame theory Steve.

if i was RIM...

[stanlyb]

If i was any of the before mentioned phone manufacturer, i would SUE Steve Jobs for slander and lets face it, for stupidity. How dare he to compare his stupid iJoke to all the other well known and with tradition and most of all, WORKING phones??? Is this guy out of mind? Does he realize that now he has to prove in the court that all the phones are as bad as his phones!!!

Perhaps ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple should institute iPhone Driver Schools across the US, Canada, Mexico, Central America, South America, Europe, Africa, Eurasia, Asia, Southeast Asia, Austraila, and Antarctica.

The old "Think Different" campaign can be re-cycled into a "Hold Different" campaign! Much the same in Male and/or Female masterbation.

In the mean while, Apple's crack scientists will figure-out how to "shield" the antenna from human touch, thus preventing the "touch-ground" problem with the iPhone 4

Re:apple left out the Q/A section on video on webs

[macs4all]

anyone else notice..apple left the Q/A session off the version of the press conference on thier website.

They seem to do that everytime they have an "event" that includes a Q&A. Don't know exactly why; but it seems to be their normal way of doing things. Take off the tinfoil hat, please!

BTW, if you're really curious, the eleventy-thousand sites that liveblogged the event can provide you with a written transcript-ish account of the Q&A.

Let's just say, you really didn't miss anything by not seeing the Q&A session. The questions were INCREDIBLY inane. Embarrassingly so, in fact. If you don't believe me, please, by all means, check it out for yourself.

What should they have done?

[aristotle-dude]

People complaining the loudest here never had any intention of buying an iPhone of any kind in the first place. There is no flaw. If there was one at least 1/3 of that 3 million would be demanding a refund. Where is the crisis? It was invented by bloggers like Gizmodo trying to attack Apple for being caught red handed and by Android fanboys trying to deflect attention from the problems with the android phones.

It drops *only* one call *more* per hundred?

[drolli]

Wait is this meant to advertise for the iphone? Any of my previous mobile phones dropped calls iff I vanish in a tunnel/building or behind a mountain. I remember only a very few call dropping unexpectedly/unexplained - for sure nothing you could measure in dropped calls per hundred calls.

Anyway: if i would have bought an iphone because of the size i would be a little pissed if I would have to make it larger to work.

Signal attenuation

[aristotle-dude]

* Samsung I9000 Galaxy S:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LROTHrTR92k

* HTC Evo Signal Attenuation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pj2YBYTbag

* Droid Incredible:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaDE941PzQk

* Droid Incredible (With Network Extender in Room):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpEQH9_A5jw

* Nexus One:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEIA_lMwqJA

* Nexus One vs. iPhone (start at 1:29):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvMoV4_C4aA

* Nexus One (after Google's update to correct):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2g5J4qPp54

* Nexus One:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deCkjeHYT-g

* Android G1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CDaxhjUs9M

* "Major signal degradation when Nexus One is picked up" (N1 Thread on On this Problem):
http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/android/thread?tid=34ae2c179184c33e&hl=en

There are plenty of counter examples for not only those phones but also the iPhone 4 by people with strong coverage who cannot make their phone fail. As SJ in Apple press conference noted, the formula they used before made it seem like there was a dramatic drop when it was already a weak signal to begin with.

Are "dropped calls" just an American thing?

[dafing]

New Zealand is a small country, granted, but I've never had a "dropped call" here. I cant remember anyone I know ever having a dropped call. Yes, we have areas with no signal at all, in the middle of nowhere http://www.vodafone.co.nz/coverage/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone_signal

What I'd like to know is if dropped calls are common worldwide? When I hear online tales of "five dropped calls every day" or "I cant even use my phone in my house/I can only use my phone in one spot"...its crazy! How did things get this way? I've heard the blame being dumped on lack of regulation....and certainly, if the USA seems to be the only place where this (commonly) happens, that could be reasonable?

Although, a friend is on a business trip to Turkey, and his hotel Wifi sucks, he keeps dropping off Skype calls, garbled audio etc, so perhaps that counts as "dropped calls" too ? :)

Statistics

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple say they do not know or cannot repeat what ATT say how many calls they drop, but the i4 drops less than 1 call per hundred more than the i3.

Lets say it drops very nearly 1 call per 100 more.

So, if the i3/i3gs etc drop 10 calls in 100, then the i4 is 10% worse than the i3.

if the i3 drops 5 calls in 100, the i4 is 25% worse.

if the i3 drops 1 call in 100, the i4 is twice as bad

if the i3 drops 0.1 calls in 100, the i4 is ten times as bad.

now, I'm not saying that Apple are making the numbers up, but they chose to use stats that sound good but are meaningless. Where is The Under Cover Economist when you need him to explain bad statistics!!

How much do dropped call stats mean?

[tgibbs]

It's hard to know the meaning of this. Since the iPhone 4 is more sensitive, people are likely to try making calls in places where the signal strength was too low for previous models. It may have nothing at all to do with the antenna

Apple's testing

[tgibbs]

If you're in an area of strong signal strength, like the Apple campus, you aren't going to notice it. If you use it in disguise, like the leaked one was, you aren't going to encounter it, since insulating the antenna from the hand solves the problem. If you don't hold it in a certain way, the problem won't happen. Moreover, this sort of thing happens to all phones, to a greater or lesser extent. Hold it in a certain way, and it'll lose signal.

According to Jobs, Apple has multiple testing chambers. More likely, they tried it out, and got results like this
http://www.antennasys.com/antennasys-blog/2010/7/14/iphone-4-meets-the-gripofdeathinator.html

And concluded that since, no matter how you hold it, the reception is as good or better than the previous model, it was just fine. What they didn't realize was that the "gap" in the case gave people a visual indicator for the "worst case" grip, and that people would be dismayed to see the signal strength drop when they held it there, even if it was and improvement over the previous model.

So get a 3gs

[tgibbs]

There are lots of iPhone 3gs's being sold by new iPhone 4 owners for about the price, or less, than an iPhone 4 (and no contract, so you could buy an iPhone 5 when it comes out next year if its better). So if you don't think the 4 is an improvement, buy a 3gs.

The Death Grip Drama Queens

[JimLynch]

This story has been hyped beyond belief. There's a ton of Apple hate fueling it, I own an iPhone 4 and haven't seen the "death grip" problem. Here's my take on it: The Death Grip Drama Queens http://jimlynch.com/index.php/2010/07/16/the-death-grip-drama-queens/ And here's my take on the iPhone 4 in general: 10 Reasons Why I Love My iPhone 4 http://jimlynch.com/index.php/2010/06/28/10-reasons-why-i-love-my-iphone-4/

Successfull transition

[alobar72]

Think of the numbers what you like
I think you can say the customer satisfaction of the iphone 4 is remarkable.
Even more if you consider the amount of bad press they got.
For me the answer is, that apple successfully managed a transition of reception of their devices.
Customers don't see iPhones as phone anymore but rather as mobile computing and app platforms.
That means the phone is just another app ( although no doubt an important one) on the device.
I really think this is the main point here:
If the iPhone was still mainly a phone in the customers perception, the bad press regarding the reception problems ( or how you'd like to call it) would have for sure had a greater impact on customer satisfaction.
But so it ist just ONE app that doesn't perform under certain circumstances.

The external antenna is for battery life

[snowwrestler]

The point of the external antenna design is to make room inside the case for a larger battery.

All those numbers and stats are nice but..

[xmvince]

I just called my friend who owns an iPhone4 and it took about 2 minutes before the call was dropped. I called him back a minute later, and the call was dropped again after about a minute. So you may say that it happens with other phones, but it is definitely the worst on the iPhone.