Metal Gear Solid 2 was also considered by many to be a long movie with little games stuck in variosu spots to hide the cinematics load times.
I don't object to cut scenes at all, as long as they don't become the game. Here and there they can be like little Easter eggs, or rewards for accomplishing something. But if I find myself wishing for a pause key so I can go to the bathroom, they're gone over the edge.
So what you're saying is that even when it's free, Microsoft can't convince more than 50% of Xbox 360 owners to use Live?
Less than 10% of Xbox users ponied up the cash to pay for Live. (I'm one of them, but that changes nothing.) I'd hazard a guess that the percentage hasn't changed substantially for Xbox 360 owners who paid for Gold.
Once people start making use of a free service, things don't change - MS still has to make a case for them to turn around and pay for it. While I agree that Media Center folks are considerably more likely to pay for Live than others, I don't think they represent a very significant portion of the market.
That said, I really hope I'm wrong. I love online play, and would love to see a world where console ownership == playing online. Maybe MS can do it this time; maybe the fact that MS and Sony and Nintendo are all doing it will make it more mainstream, and it'll catch fire this time. Maybe arguing that Sony won't be able to pull this off is really arguing against our own best interests.
After all, don't we want to see online play become common?
No doubt about it - being able to burn your own stuff to, um, little DVD's would have been sweet. And I myself would have preferred SD cards - way cheaper. (And more internal memory, but that's a different topic.)
But I think you underestimate the piracy issue, at least in Sony's eyes. After all, they've already demonstrated the willingness to be a pariah as far as copy protection is concerned. MS piracy isn't an issue, as they don't put out games or movies on those.
I haven't seen a potential gunk problem with the pop-out back, because I don't open and close them that much. But I'd be really reluctant to do so at the beach, for example - I'd just be asking for sand to get in there.
Actually, Mini DVD's are CD-sized media that are formatted to hold video. It wouldn't be appropriate for a handheld device. You're probably thinking about cDVD's, sometimes called 3-inch DVD's. They hold somewhat less than a UMD (1.4GB vs. 1.8GB) but might have been considered, if piracy weren't an issue.
Personally, I think a slot loading handheld would be a mistake. I can imagine all kinds of gunk getting in the slot. Handhelds have to put up with much more demanding environments (like people's pockets) than your typical slot loading CD or DVD player does. It just seems to be asking for trouble.
My experience is different from yours. I have Jurassic Park on my 1 GB Memory Stick Duo right now, taking up a little less than half the stick. I got a Gigapack, so the MS cost me $50 over the value pack. I get 25-30 fps, 368x208 (16:9), no artifacts. I love the way it looks and sounds, and it's uncertain that better resolution would be noticable to me given the screen size.
Once you're set up to do it, converting movies is not appreciably different than ripping CD's, something people do all the time without complaint. After all, you only do it once per movie, then you're done. I've done this with all my DVDs. Now if I find myself in a position of wanting movies for a trip, I pick two, and move them over. No big deal.
I guess this is why I've found the UMD movie argument to be a straw man. I couldn't agree more - who'd pay the same price to buy a movie they already own? If I care enough about the movie to buy it, I'll buy a DVD and rip it. I'm sure as heck not going to buy a UMD and burn it to DVD!
Theoretically, I agree about the battery life. There is a newer battery you can buy which give you about 20% more capacity. But I've never played the PSP (or any game device) the required 5-8 hours needed to run out the battery. I have a job and a family - 5 hours is a long time. I just plug it in to the charger if when it gets close to half out.
The PSP and the DS work out fine for me. Perhaps you should sell your PSP. You seem very unhappy with it.
I guess I'd rather bring my PSP with me to play games, watch movies, and listen to music than bring a portable DVD player, my MP3 player AND my DS - the footprint is somewhat smaller. Come to think of it, it's cheaper than buying all three as well.
But I admit, digital comics leave me cold. Please, Kojima-san, tell me that this isn't the all-new Metal Gear experience you were talking about a while back! Talk about a letdown...
I'm sorry, but I just don't understand this. My DS cartridges are a proprietary format as well. Why would I care? I buy the media for its contents. I never got too bent out of shape about the format I bought my games on. UMD's are a nearly 2GB, relatively cheap, very small medium. I don't seen anything I could reasonably replace them with that offers that same.
By the way, where are you getting your NPD numbers? I've been to their site, and I can't find anything even remotely resembling PSP/DS sales numbers in the US. If you go back to the blog I listed above, one of the comments said the PSP outsold the DS by 500,000 units *according to NDP*. Where'd he get his numbers?
Sadly, most of the posts don't give any references at all. Those that do give extremely vague ones. Where is a person supposed to get real numbers?
Seriously, IGN, Gamespot, NPD, numerous other gaming news sites ALL have similar numbers, and your counter is a guy who happens to work for an insignificant news agency and who is basically citing himself on his blog.
Hey, I never said he was believable - quite the contrary, in fact. I posted his numbers as another example of figures we can't get the real info from.
The problem with IGN, Gamespot, and numerous other gaming new sites is that they all quote NPD. They are all the same source. And we have no idea where NPD got their numbers either. Face it - only Sony really knows how many they sold in 2005, and they haven't said.
Oh - and the post I responded to was also used NPD. I guess those are the only acceptable numbers here.
And according to this source, it has. Who's right? I haven't seen any figures for the US that I'd actually consider believable. My impression is that in the US, the 2005 numbers were neck and neck. However, considering that the DS sold for 12 months in 2005, whereas the PSP sold for 9, the PSP has a better trend.
For me, the cutscenes in FFXI were part of what differentiated it from the ordinary MMORPG - it actually had a story line. I'm sorry it didn't fit your idea of what an MMORPG is. I felt the cutscenes (which were extremely infrequent) added a lot to the gameplay, and I enjoyed them all.
If you have already seen the cutscene, then you know you are going into a situation where one will be played; you really have no reason to complain that you didn't know it was going to happen. If others in your party have not seen it, they have a right to experience it as part of the game. If everyone has seen it, you need to agree to what you are going to do, and how you are going to coordinate when everyone is done.
Complaining the others are watching something you can't even see is disingenuous - you chose to skip it. Deal with it.
Well, if you read the last phrase in your quote, it implies that after the unnamed unrelated-to-RE game is developed, they'll go back and think about how to make a Revolution-controller-specific RE game.
I've heard this comment (or others like them) many times, and I've never understood them. As much as it is a genre of games, a MMORPG is a game implementation. Why would anyone want to play it alone?
Let's see:
1) The world is vast and fun to explore 2) It's fun to play the character classes in that world 3) The battle system is varied and interesting 4) The story line is compelling
Get the picture? Notice how often I mentioned other on-line players?
A game is either fun or it's not; whether it happens to be implemented on-line is irrelevant. I've played Guild Wars since it came out, and I've had a blast. I haven't grouped at all. Horrors! I've been playing an on-line game like I'd have played it if it were off-line. My god - where are the police when you need them?
Classic mistake: life isn't an either/or game. My son is an avid gamer and D&D (PnP) player. He's 13, and been doing this for at least 6 years. His favorite TV shows are Xplay and various anime shows. He loves reading fantasy books. He'll play video games or do D&D (as GM - he likes designing the scenarios for others more than playing) as much as we let him. So, of course, we impose limits.
He's also an A+ student in a very competitive school system, in advanced classes where they're available. He practices cello 30 minutes a day, and is an accomplished soccer player. He's tall and lean and fit, and has been the fastest in his class in the mile run several times.
I'm not going to claim that his playing video games has improved his problem solving skills or other similar claims (though he's often better than I am at some of these); it's a hobby he enjoys.
I'll pass on point 1. I think the MMO world is going to use instances more and more (see Dungeons and Dragons Online.) Whether you consider that a MMORPG or not is up to you.
On point 2, however, Guild Wars has been out since when, April? May? They have added loads of new content, and haven't released a single expansion. $15/month is $180/year. I spent $40 on GW, and have had access to it for 9 months. COnsider World of Warcraft. Over that time, the WoW player who started in April (let's just say that's when GW started) has spent $50+($13*9) or $167. If GW released an expansion pack tomorrow for $40 (and that's the same amount I paid for the original game), I'm still ahead by $87. I could be ahead by more - the expansion packs will likely cost less than that. (The WoW calculations are generous - I assume the player pays the lowest possible amount - $13 - per month, even though that would only available to those who prepay in 6 month increments.)
Note: none of this makes any claims about which game is more fun. Also GW might very well change their expansion pack release schedule to something more frequent. I'm only observing what I've paid so far for GW, and what I'd have paid for WoW. WoW was chosen because it's a MMORPG that's very popular. I've also heard that they're to release an expansion pack shortly as well, cost unknown.
While online gaming is a large factor for the xbox...
I keep hearing this, and it confuses me. By Microsoft's own figures, 90% of Xbox owners don't care about online at all. How does that make it so important?
This is a good point. I was able to play with the DS on day one via the kiosks set up in the game stores. I have yet to see or touch a PSP. I've been trying to understand why Sony has done this. By all accounts, the screen is beautiful, and the games look great. Why hide it? I can play the PS2 all I want at these same stores.
Sorry - all of your "facts" are speculation. You don't know when the PS3 will be released, either here or in Japan. Sony hasn't announced that. "Pretty much fact"? What does that mean? Either it is a fact or it isn't. Since Sony hasn't said, it isn't.
Making bold pronouncements about how well the Xbox 360 is going to do because the PS3 "might launch in Europe as late as Spring 2007" is FUD, pure and simple. Spread fear among buyers that if they don't buy a 360, they won't have any new console for more than a year. Spread uncertainty about the launch date of the PS3. Spread doubt that the PS3 will launch next year at all.
So what you're saying is that KTorrent is just Azureus recoded in C++? If so, your argument is rock solid. Otherwise, you really are comparing apples and oranges.
I can come up with two implementations of a non-trivial task that "do the same thing" where one is orders of magnitude faster than the other, regardless of the language it is coded in.
Unless you are comparing essentially the same implementation, the comparison is meaningless.
I agree completely. It doesn't matter how much they charge for the lot, if none are any good. And there are certainly individual games out there that outshine SOE's whole pack. However, over time that might change, either because SOE adds new games, or because the stablemaster in question is someone other than SOE. The idea is general - SOE was just the example that came to mind. If someone managed to get just 2 top-notch games into a group of several, for the same price everyone else was charging for a single game, the picture could be very different.
I think the appeal of having a bunch of games to the consumer is that they can try them all. Clearly these games are incredible time-sinks, and no one could play them all simultaneously. However, there is that reassurance that if they decided to switch to one of the others for a bit, they'd lose nothing (characters, etc.) and could come back without skipping a beat - even play the two on alternate days, if they liked.
If SOE (or any future multi-game MMORPG vendor) were to throw in free download of the game to the mix, I think they'd have a marketing winner.
Slashdot Mirror
Metal Gear Solid 2 was also considered by many to be a long movie with little games stuck in variosu spots to hide the cinematics load times.
I don't object to cut scenes at all, as long as they don't become the game. Here and there they can be like little Easter eggs, or rewards for accomplishing something. But if I find myself wishing for a pause key so I can go to the bathroom, they're gone over the edge.
The police organizations don't want us to play Cops and Robbers. The native American organizations don't want us to play Cowboys and Indians.
Geez, I feel old...
So what you're saying is that even when it's free, Microsoft can't convince more than 50% of Xbox 360 owners to use Live?
Less than 10% of Xbox users ponied up the cash to pay for Live. (I'm one of them, but that changes nothing.) I'd hazard a guess that the percentage hasn't changed substantially for Xbox 360 owners who paid for Gold.
Once people start making use of a free service, things don't change - MS still has to make a case for them to turn around and pay for it. While I agree that Media Center folks are considerably more likely to pay for Live than others, I don't think they represent a very significant portion of the market.
That said, I really hope I'm wrong. I love online play, and would love to see a world where console ownership == playing online. Maybe MS can do it this time; maybe the fact that MS and Sony and Nintendo are all doing it will make it more mainstream, and it'll catch fire this time. Maybe arguing that Sony won't be able to pull this off is really arguing against our own best interests.
After all, don't we want to see online play become common?
No doubt about it - being able to burn your own stuff to, um, little DVD's would have been sweet. And I myself would have preferred SD cards - way cheaper. (And more internal memory, but that's a different topic.)
But I think you underestimate the piracy issue, at least in Sony's eyes. After all, they've already demonstrated the willingness to be a pariah as far as copy protection is concerned. MS piracy isn't an issue, as they don't put out games or movies on those.
I haven't seen a potential gunk problem with the pop-out back, because I don't open and close them that much. But I'd be really reluctant to do so at the beach, for example - I'd just be asking for sand to get in there.
Actually, Mini DVD's are CD-sized media that are formatted to hold video. It wouldn't be appropriate for a handheld device. You're probably thinking about cDVD's, sometimes called 3-inch DVD's. They hold somewhat less than a UMD (1.4GB vs. 1.8GB) but might have been considered, if piracy weren't an issue.
Personally, I think a slot loading handheld would be a mistake. I can imagine all kinds of gunk getting in the slot. Handhelds have to put up with much more demanding environments (like people's pockets) than your typical slot loading CD or DVD player does. It just seems to be asking for trouble.
My experience is different from yours. I have Jurassic Park on my 1 GB Memory Stick Duo right now, taking up a little less than half the stick. I got a Gigapack, so the MS cost me $50 over the value pack. I get 25-30 fps, 368x208 (16:9), no artifacts. I love the way it looks and sounds, and it's uncertain that better resolution would be noticable to me given the screen size.
Once you're set up to do it, converting movies is not appreciably different than ripping CD's, something people do all the time without complaint. After all, you only do it once per movie, then you're done. I've done this with all my DVDs. Now if I find myself in a position of wanting movies for a trip, I pick two, and move them over. No big deal.
I guess this is why I've found the UMD movie argument to be a straw man. I couldn't agree more - who'd pay the same price to buy a movie they already own? If I care enough about the movie to buy it, I'll buy a DVD and rip it. I'm sure as heck not going to buy a UMD and burn it to DVD!
Theoretically, I agree about the battery life. There is a newer battery you can buy which give you about 20% more capacity. But I've never played the PSP (or any game device) the required 5-8 hours needed to run out the battery. I have a job and a family - 5 hours is a long time. I just plug it in to the charger if when it gets close to half out.
The PSP and the DS work out fine for me. Perhaps you should sell your PSP. You seem very unhappy with it.
I guess I'd rather bring my PSP with me to play games, watch movies, and listen to music than bring a portable DVD player, my MP3 player AND my DS - the footprint is somewhat smaller. Come to think of it, it's cheaper than buying all three as well.
But I admit, digital comics leave me cold. Please, Kojima-san, tell me that this isn't the all-new Metal Gear experience you were talking about a while back! Talk about a letdown...
I'm sorry, but I just don't understand this. My DS cartridges are a proprietary format as well. Why would I care? I buy the media for its contents. I never got too bent out of shape about the format I bought my games on. UMD's are a nearly 2GB, relatively cheap, very small medium. I don't seen anything I could reasonably replace them with that offers that same.
By the way, where are you getting your NPD numbers? I've been to their site, and I can't find anything even remotely resembling PSP/DS sales numbers in the US. If you go back to the blog I listed above, one of the comments said the PSP outsold the DS by 500,000 units *according to NDP*. Where'd he get his numbers?
Sadly, most of the posts don't give any references at all. Those that do give extremely vague ones. Where is a person supposed to get real numbers?
Hey, I never said he was believable - quite the contrary, in fact. I posted his numbers as another example of figures we can't get the real info from.
The problem with IGN, Gamespot, and numerous other gaming new sites is that they all quote NPD. They are all the same source. And we have no idea where NPD got their numbers either. Face it - only Sony really knows how many they sold in 2005, and they haven't said.
Oh - and the post I responded to was also used NPD. I guess those are the only acceptable numbers here.
I wonder why?
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/aei/2006/01/handheld_ unit_s.html
And according to this source, it has. Who's right? I haven't seen any figures for the US that I'd actually consider believable. My impression is that in the US, the 2005 numbers were neck and neck. However, considering that the DS sold for 12 months in 2005, whereas the PSP sold for 9, the PSP has a better trend.
In this game, you can play as either cops or robbers. How are you "stuck"?
Also, I strongly doubt any game can make you hate or love a specific group. If you hate cops, don't blame the game.
Indoctrination indeed.
For me, the cutscenes in FFXI were part of what differentiated it from the ordinary MMORPG - it actually had a story line. I'm sorry it didn't fit your idea of what an MMORPG is. I felt the cutscenes (which were extremely infrequent) added a lot to the gameplay, and I enjoyed them all.
If you have already seen the cutscene, then you know you are going into a situation where one will be played; you really have no reason to complain that you didn't know it was going to happen. If others in your party have not seen it, they have a right to experience it as part of the game. If everyone has seen it, you need to agree to what you are going to do, and how you are going to coordinate when everyone is done.
Complaining the others are watching something you can't even see is disingenuous - you chose to skip it. Deal with it.
Well, if you read the last phrase in your quote, it implies that after the unnamed unrelated-to-RE game is developed, they'll go back and think about how to make a Revolution-controller-specific RE game.
But you're right, it's hardly a firm commitment.
The article said they go for $50, not $200.
I've heard this comment (or others like them) many times, and I've never understood them. As much as it is a genre of games, a MMORPG is a game implementation. Why would anyone want to play it alone?
Let's see:
1) The world is vast and fun to explore
2) It's fun to play the character classes in that world
3) The battle system is varied and interesting
4) The story line is compelling
Get the picture? Notice how often I mentioned other on-line players?
A game is either fun or it's not; whether it happens to be implemented on-line is irrelevant. I've played Guild Wars since it came out, and I've had a blast. I haven't grouped at all. Horrors! I've been playing an on-line game like I'd have played it if it were off-line. My god - where are the police when you need them?
Classic mistake: life isn't an either/or game. My son is an avid gamer and D&D (PnP) player. He's 13, and been doing this for at least 6 years. His favorite TV shows are Xplay and various anime shows. He loves reading fantasy books. He'll play video games or do D&D (as GM - he likes designing the scenarios for others more than playing) as much as we let him. So, of course, we impose limits.
He's also an A+ student in a very competitive school system, in advanced classes where they're available. He practices cello 30 minutes a day, and is an accomplished soccer player. He's tall and lean and fit, and has been the fastest in his class in the mile run several times.
I'm not going to claim that his playing video games has improved his problem solving skills or other similar claims (though he's often better than I am at some of these); it's a hobby he enjoys.
It's all about balance.
Richard? Is that you?
I'll pass on point 1. I think the MMO world is going to use instances more and more (see Dungeons and Dragons Online.) Whether you consider that a MMORPG or not is up to you.
On point 2, however, Guild Wars has been out since when, April? May? They have added loads of new content, and haven't released a single expansion. $15/month is $180/year. I spent $40 on GW, and have had access to it for 9 months. COnsider World of Warcraft. Over that time, the WoW player who started in April (let's just say that's when GW started) has spent $50+($13*9) or $167. If GW released an expansion pack tomorrow for $40 (and that's the same amount I paid for the original game), I'm still ahead by $87. I could be ahead by more - the expansion packs will likely cost less than that. (The WoW calculations are generous - I assume the player pays the lowest possible amount - $13 - per month, even though that would only available to those who prepay in 6 month increments.)
Note: none of this makes any claims about which game is more fun. Also GW might very well change their expansion pack release schedule to something more frequent. I'm only observing what I've paid so far for GW, and what I'd have paid for WoW. WoW was chosen because it's a MMORPG that's very popular. I've also heard that they're to release an expansion pack shortly as well, cost unknown.
Friendly Neighborhood Gaming Store
This is a good point. I was able to play with the DS on day one via the kiosks set up in the game stores. I have yet to see or touch a PSP. I've been trying to understand why Sony has done this. By all accounts, the screen is beautiful, and the games look great. Why hide it? I can play the PS2 all I want at these same stores.
It is puzzling.
Sorry - all of your "facts" are speculation. You don't know when the PS3 will be released, either here or in Japan. Sony hasn't announced that. "Pretty much fact"? What does that mean? Either it is a fact or it isn't. Since Sony hasn't said, it isn't.
Making bold pronouncements about how well the Xbox 360 is going to do because the PS3 "might launch in Europe as late as Spring 2007" is FUD, pure and simple. Spread fear among buyers that if they don't buy a 360, they won't have any new console for more than a year. Spread uncertainty about the launch date of the PS3. Spread doubt that the PS3 will launch next year at all.
Sounds like FUD to me.
So what you're saying is that KTorrent is just Azureus recoded in C++? If so, your argument is rock solid. Otherwise, you really are comparing apples and oranges.
I can come up with two implementations of a non-trivial task that "do the same thing" where one is orders of magnitude faster than the other, regardless of the language it is coded in.
Unless you are comparing essentially the same implementation, the comparison is meaningless.
I agree completely. It doesn't matter how much they charge for the lot, if none are any good. And there are certainly individual games out there that outshine SOE's whole pack. However, over time that might change, either because SOE adds new games, or because the stablemaster in question is someone other than SOE. The idea is general - SOE was just the example that came to mind. If someone managed to get just 2 top-notch games into a group of several, for the same price everyone else was charging for a single game, the picture could be very different.
I think the appeal of having a bunch of games to the consumer is that they can try them all. Clearly these games are incredible time-sinks, and no one could play them all simultaneously. However, there is that reassurance that if they decided to switch to one of the others for a bit, they'd lose nothing (characters, etc.) and could come back without skipping a beat - even play the two on alternate days, if they liked.
If SOE (or any future multi-game MMORPG vendor) were to throw in free download of the game to the mix, I think they'd have a marketing winner.