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The World's Tiniest Power Supply Unit
An anonymous reader writes "This year at CES members of the press got to grab a glimpse of the world's tiniest power supply. Well actually it is the world's tiniest 12V snap-in ATX DC-to-DC power supply, but you get the idea. This unit produces 120W of power and is about the size of two AA batteries. It is specifically designed for use with Mini-ITX motherboards, but can be used in many other applications."
For years I worked on a viable PC-for-the-car. This is before Microsoft had their operating system (failure) for car stereos, and before the CarPC was even a thought by the designer. My biggest problem was finding a cheap, small and capable 12DC-DC power supply. Even a few years ago they were basically impossible to find.
A /id.417/.f
i le=article&sid=718
e r_supply_-_the_picoPSU
I'm glad to see there is now a market for these power supplies (although I'm sure this isn't for car applications). I wonder how efficient it is -- and how much heat it gives off. The article was a bit...sparse.
I miss my old car PC -- 8 years ago it could do so much more than anything else I've seen. Considering how much time I wasted, I wish I kept all the software and code.
A couple more links to the picoPSU:
http://www.mini-box.com/s.nl/sc.8/category.13/it.
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/01/07/pico_psu/
http://www.epiacenter.com/modules.php?name=News&f
http://www.realtechnews.com/page/2/
And, of course: http://www.digg.com/hardware/World_s_smallest_pow
They sell them here for $50 if you're interested in putting one in your mod or computer.
You may also be interested in the pdf guide for the picoPSU-120.
My work here is dung.
Very nice, very small, but only converts DC to DC, so there will still be another brick doing AC-DC conversion beneath your super tiny designer micro case or nanomac. Nice nonetheless, maybe one could fit those to work with existing DC networks for household appliance, so we can finally have a network of toasters, smart Japanese toilets, mirco ovens, light switches and artificial pets. Or maybe we'll just build more efficient computers that run by power over ethernet.
Chriss
--
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memomo: free web based language trainer DE-EN-ES-FR-IT
What input range does it take? Is it suitable for automotive use?
Test your net with Netalyzr
What will that power? My graphics card?
" it will have to be used with an external AC-to-DC power converter"So this is just like all the other mini itx adaptors in that it requires an external brick to provide the juice. Who cares how small the internal part is?
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
Great, just great!
Now we'll NEVER get rid of that friggin' energizer bunny!
http://www.xyzcomputing.com.nyud.net:8090/index.ph p?option=content&task=view&id=516
v4sw6PU$hw6ln6pr4F$ck 4/6$ma3+6u7LNS$w2m4l7U$i2e4+7en6a2X h
> I'm glad to see there is now a market for these power
> supplies (although I'm sure this isn't for car applications).
> I wonder how efficient it is -- and how much heat it gives
> off. The article was a bit...sparse.
From the article:
"The pico-PSU boasts an over 96% efficiency rating"
and:
"No enclosure or cooling is needed."
Craig
IBM can incorporate this into the World's Smallest Computer.
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
My biggest problem was finding a cheap, small and capable 12DC-DC power supply.
I know it's not exactly efficient, but you could have installed a DC->AC inverter, then plugged a regular AC->DC power supply into that. You'd get some loss in power, but your average draw (assuming you were using laptop parts) could easily be kept somewhere around 10-30 watts. Well within a range that your car's electrical system wouldn't notice.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
It takes dc and supplies dc. Doesn't that make it more of a converter?
And if so, it's no big deal. You can buy decent switched cap converters at Digi-key for a couple of bucks. I bought one not too long ago to step 14v down to 5 and supply 4 or so amps, and it was about the same size. The small footprint at 120w is fairly nifty, but otherwise I don't see the big deal.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Never mind that! How many trees will I have to tap to power my server?
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
So if I have a 480W power supply in my PC, could I somehow replace it with 4 of these? Since there's no fan, would it be quieter? Where do you get one of those bricks to convert from AC to DC, and how big/noisy are they?
To the editors: Don't let the words "produce" and "power" be together. You cannot produce power. You can deliver, provide, etc. But definitely you don't produce power in a power supply.
The article claims 96% efficiency (page 2).
I am impressed with the little gizmo.
Eloi are stupid, throw morlocks at them!
After skimming the datasheet, it's actually a 40 watt "power supply" - The 5V and 3.3V rails can only provide 40 watts combined. The 12V output is just a switched 12 volt input; no regulation is performed on this.
;)
Going by the same logic that these guys use to claim their supply is >100 watts, the 200 watt AT power supply in the linux shitbox by my feet is actually a 1400 watt supply - after all the IEC 120V outlet on the back is rated for 10 amps, yielding a 1.2KW extra output "rail". You might even be able to call this a 2200 watt supply in europe...
The lack of a regulated 12V output makes this PSU useless for in-car PCs. The "12V" seen in a car is anything but that - it varies from 13 to 15 volts DC depending on engine RPM and electrical loads, browns out significantly when you start your car, and can have *huge* transients on it.
My biggest problem was finding a cheap, small and capable 12DC-DC power supply.
At almost $200 it looks like this fits two of your three requirements.
I went through the same pains a few years back. It looks like availability of DC->DC power supplies has much improved since then though. Oh, and for all of you who may be looking for an AC->DC power supply to use while these aren't in your car, check out the external adaptors for the Gamecube. Cheapest switching 12V supply in watts per dollar terms that you're likely to find. As little as $4 at a used games shop...
How many trees will I have to tap to power my server?
All of them.
KFG
I'm not an electronics person so bare with me. I thought the main reason of a power suppl y was to convert AC to DC, so basically a rectifier. I guess this is wrong. So the main purpose of a power supply such as this would be to take 12V DC @10 amps.. and offer 5 12VDC power sources running at 2 amps each? Am I on the right track or am I mistaken? I am aware the power supplies use Transformers? Why are these used?
Please note that the voltage your car delivers through its cigarette lighter is about 14VDC while the engine is running instead of the 12VDC that you might expect.
That's quite a bit out of spec for the average hardware.
Error: password can't contain reverse spelling of ancient Chinese emperor
my last /. post!
i cant wait to see my new girlfriend this weekend
That wouldn't even power my video card.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
I used to have one of those small form factor pc's with a poorly designed power supply that successfully blocked air-intake, meaning the two cpu fans were sucking and blowing on 'full throttle' most of the time. This could only improve current P.O.S. small form factors.
This is great if your house has a 12V solar installation. Do all of your computing off the grid. :)
Will this work off of a car 12V?
;-)
No it won't - at least not very long
Modern computers need most of the power on the 12V Rail.
This powersupply is not a 120W unit as advertised, but a 40W(sustained) or 60W(peak) power supply for 3V3 and 5V.
The 12V rail is just switched through from the input source (specified as +7..+22V).
If you supply +22V to your Motherboards 12V-Input, or to drives, you will likely fry them. Most would be specified at 12V +/- 10%.
However, even if the device you connected to this supply needs only 3V3 and 5V, I still wouldnt want to connect the powersupply to a car battery while the engine is running.
A car battery usually supplies between 11 and 12 Volts when the motor is off. When the motor is running, the alternator generates 14.1V and the battery is loaded from this constant voltage source.
Automotive electronics ist usually specified for a +60V "load dump", which means a powerhungry device like a solenoid is switched off and then the alternator takes tens of ms to adjust to the sudden reduction in power consumption.
If the battery cannot absorb the resulting excess current surge (because it is either bad, empty(e.g. after a jump-start), or the terminals disconnect momentarily), this power supply will see up to 60V at its inputs, or has to clip dozens of amps.
There is no space for the neccessary large surge arrestors on the board, so this will probably blow the input caps and the mosfets of the switcher.
But still, even a 40W power supply is impressive in this form-factor.
High efficency DC->DC converters aren't THAT hard to find, but they tend to be really expensive. I was working on a project a couple of years ago that used one and the converter was a good 60% of the parts cost. For someone building what is supposed to be a low cost device, it was a real stumbling block.
At $200 these guys aren't particularly cheap either, although they are rated for a higher load than most of the converters I was looking at.
I read the internet for the articles.
Every time a new device comes out, especially consumer electronics like the PSP and iPod I give people the same advice: wait. The early adopters are beta testers. Wait a year or so for people's computers to blow up from this new power supply and then buy your bug-free version for cheaper.
Please note I have never used this power supply before and have no idea how well it's made. I'm just making a general statement on electronics.
The XBox 360's.
Now I can build a single box cluster without needing multiple AC-DC power supplies. They can all be run off HDD connectors from the main PSU.
cheap, small and capable
Pick Two...
and instead of a dc-dc converter why not get a dc-ac converter? Inefficient but a car engine is churning out plenty of surplus energy and its not like you have to pay for it... efficiency isnt a factor, cost is.
-everphilski-
The article said they go for $50, not $200.
This is a DC-to-DC Converter, not a Power Supply. Nonetheless, the power density is impressive. Point of load regulation is better anyway. You can get by with a single output power supply and simpify the wiring. Just use converters where you need the lower voltage.
Wansu, th' chinese sailor
I believe current auto computers have a hefty filtering package to work under these varying conditions. The Pico-PSU doesn't seem to have enough filtering to be directly plugged in. However, a smaller external voltage regulator to handle the spikes/drops would probably do wonders for it.
See... Everyone knows that's why you keep Mox's around ... so you don't have to tap all your trees
I couldn't fail to disagree with you any less.
The worlds tiniest power supply.... .umm .hrm
...nope, i got nothing.
The worlds tiniest violin....
My girlfriend telling me i dont have the worlds tiniest penis...
It was my understanding that to convert from one DC voltage to another efficiently (that is, ignoring a trivial resistive voltage divider), you needed to convert to AC, run it through a transformer, and convert it again into DC. This little circuit seems to accomplish it without transformers. How does it work? References to some articles would be appreciated :)
-- Marcio
Taco- Sorry, you can't. The thing is merely a crappy switching regulator WITHOUT a transformer. To be a PSU, it is necessary to step down 120V or 240V down to a more managable 5V or 12V. This cannot be done with what is pictured on the site. It is a regulated snap-in connector- nothing more. If he had a 120W PSU the size of two AA batteries, he'd freaking win a Nobel Prize and be bought out by every PSU manufacturer (Delta Group, MeanWell, etc.)... too bad its is quite impossible right now.
CmdrTaco needs to get his articles based on reality rather than from smoking the wacky weed. Maybe it was poor choice of wording, but that is no excuse.
Women all over the world using sex toys just rejoiced!
It's nice to see these start getting some more attention. I've been a long fan of the works of the people over at http://www.mp3car.com/ and they use these quite extensively. Any tech savy person will love the things these people are doing. It's quite amazing. Needless to say when Im out of college this will be one of my first projects.
I will forever be a student.
Isn't this just a passthrough at this point? If you have to have an external AC->DC converter, then why not just stick the how PSU outside the box...
The gates in my computer are AND, OR and NOT; they are not Bill.
From TFA:
The picoPSU-120 is currently available for $49.99.
I suppose if you lived in a country where the unit of currency was worth approximately $0.25 US...
That's life passing you by.
If you knew me, you'd laugh at your comment.
I was up at 5, worked 3 hours (plus 1 hour of drive time) and earned my overhead for 2 weeks.
Home by 11. I had a meeting with my neighbors (all self-employed or retired) about taking over a lot across the street to build a private supervised playground and sitting garden (previous neighbor moved his house out).
I cooked lunch on my grill (its 50 degrees in Chicago) and ate it outside while updating my blogs and taking phone calls from my blog readers.
Now I'm outside still with my laptop writing My February edition of my newsletter (2000+ subscribers).
What did you do today?
This device is not suitable for cars. The specs state that it requires 12VDC in to operate - it's not uncommon for a vehicle to run at 13.8VDC, and there are of course issues with power spikes from the ignition system.
There are some 12V PSU's outthere (either morex or cubid from memory) that use the 12VDC supply rail and pass it straight through to the motherboards 12VDC rail. Stick some spikes down that line and you could zap something important.
If you want to power a computer in a vehicle, then the best stuff I have seen is from Opus Solutions who make excellent PSU's for in-vehicle use. They support a wide input voltage range, have automatic low power shutdown, and can be configured to start the computer when the car has been running for a set delay, and shutdown the computer when the ignition has been switched off for a certain amount of time.
Highly recommended.
Never mind that! How many trees will I have to tap to power my server?
The real question is: how many acres of forest will be destroyed by the ensuing wildfire when you link your server to slashdot?
Great! Now I can finally make that shoe computer I've wanted all my life.
They have a powersupply on mini-box that is designed specifically for auto use. Not quite as small but still pretty cool:
link
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
oops that link may not work... , try this
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
They are asking $49.99. The $200 number is to buy an M10000 motherboard.
High efficency DC->DC converters aren't THAT hard to find, but they tend to be really expensive. I was working on a project a couple of years ago that used one and the converter was a good 60% of the parts cost. For someone building what is supposed to be a low cost device, it was a real stumbling block.
At $200 these guys aren't particularly cheap either, although they are rated for a higher load than most of the converters I was looking at.
-- the computer doesn't want any beer, no matter how much you think it does. NEVER, EVER feed your computer beer.
I don't think it would work for a car because of the 4 pin connectors. You still need the 5V input which means another converter somewhere else taking up more space. Now if it took the 14V directly from the car with just a positive and negative wire, you've got something.
Just the ticket for the navigation computer/mp3 player computer for my school bus rv conversion!
The Steampunk Workshop
Awesome site. Loads and looks great on my PDA.
Questions:
1. Do you need a CDL to drive it?
2. Annual insurance costs?
3. How much are buses (in working condition)?
I'm contemplating starting an scheduled on-the-go retail chain for big areas with small towns. This would be perfect.
http://www.mini-box.com/s.nl/sc.8/category.13/it.A /id.424/.f
This unit might fit the bill then.. Seems to cover the whole surge and brown out problem, or so it claims. And its small, but not as small.
EA David Gardner -"... but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun."
Oh, then that is a marked advantage over the DC->DC converters I was working with.
I read the internet for the articles.
The article said you still had to have the external ac-dc inverter - who wants to guess what the biggest part of a psu would be? they just took the inverter out of a psu and made it external, with the only part of the psu remaining internal is the voltage divider circuit to step it down from 120 to 12 volts and keep the wattage.
Did someone just ask for a VOLTAGE REGULATOR? :)
Karnal
You're wrong.
,north-bridge heatsink+fanm, this daughterboard and a shitload of cabling) with restricted airflow (see pics above). The cute little PSU is good and it definitely fits the bill for a CarPC.
{brag} Disclaimer: I have a [real] CarPC (Ignore the Hebrew, I'm posting it for the pix). I built the thing myself from components, none of that pesky proprietary overpriced 1-DIN crap. FlexATX form factor NF2 NB, Athlon XP 1700+, Jetway Mobo (cannibalized off a Jetway 765 SFF-PC) to support two independant consoles under Windows XP (using their MagicTwin XP-tweaking driver). Yes, it functions like 2 separate PC's. Yes, it plays 2 MPEG-4 streams simultaneosly. No it doesn't run Linux or BSD (only good CarPC software is for windows). Thus, I'm confident that to a degree I know what I'm talking about. {/brag}
Now:
A CarPC requires three functions from it's entire power rig:
1. Poweron-poweroff logic (i.e. ignition key on-> short mobo power switch, stop responding to anything else for 60 secs until OS boots, keyoff -> same thing,etc etc etc).
2. Stabilize car battery voltage to a single, stable DC rail. (Mine is 19V, other configurations can have other power levels. It doesn't really matter). A subset of this and a very useful feature is to monitor input voltage and utterly cut off the PC when it hits a minimal threshold, to prevent deep discharge of the battery. That's because a PC will consume ~200mA of current even when it's off over its 5Vsb rail.
2. Split up that big mama rail using a DC2DC into the various rails the PC requires. Depending on your PC, you may need higher or lower powered DC2DC's. My rig runs the CPU off the 12V rail and thus requires 2.5 amps off that rail, making most DC2DC's (such as the M1-ATX, which was designed with "mini-itx" in mind) insufficient for my rig.
Now, different products cater to different subsets of those three requirements.
An M1-ATX will do all three, but will not feed a desktop-CPU (unless the mobo feeds that CPU off the 5V rail).
A Carnetix CNX-P1900 will do [1] and [2] mighty well, and is designed to work alongside a Travla C138 or C139 which does [3] (this is the configuration I use in my car).
The product discussed here fulfills [3] and would do me very good (were I building a new rig). It would substitute a 120mm x 80mm x 15mm daughterboard (or something along those lines) and a big mother of an ATX cable crammed into a home-made aluminum box the size of a 4-year-old laptop (that is already crammed full, with a mobo, a harddrive, a 1U AthlonMP heatsink+fan and
And Kudos to the guys who made it.
-
An ITPS will help by adding some protection to your DC power against overload. As a bonus, it will also connect to the "soft on/off" connector on your motherboard, allowing for the PC to do a safe shutdown when the ignition is turned off, and to prevent massive power stutters when turning the ignition on.
Just a little note, as the description provide by /. is totally wrong... ...power supplies 'supply power,' but not inherently. To say that the mentioned unit "produces 120W of power" is totally, totally wrong!
You could say power supply units relay power, transform power or something else, but not produce. Actually, power supply units normally performs two main functions. They transform and filter power (energy) from an external source.
If the unit actually produced 120W, it would be many times bigger at the very least. Remember "energy cannot be created nor destroy," and those 120W need to come from somewhere.
why didn't you just build one, there not that hard?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Mini-Box (the company that makes the pico ATX power supply in the article) made or makes these as well.
One was a regulator you used with an ATX power supply. I don't think it's made anymore.
The other is in the form factor of their mini-itx power supplies which combines both the regular with a power supply in one package. This was their second product for the auto market, should still be available for purchase.
How can the parent be modded insightfull on slashdot... power from the hydros is not stable either, thats one of the reasons there are regulators in power supplies. am i not stating the obvious
"The world's tinest power supply unit is in my pants!"
Erm, have any of ever even LOOKED at an ATX spec? You do know that there is a number of different DC voltages, both positive and negative, right? All those wires on the ATX plug aren't there just for fun. Generating all these various voltages from a single 12VDC point is quite a feat. The down-stepping might require a bulky, heavy unit, but has never been a great technical challange. It's the multiple DC voltages needed by the ATX spec that are the real problem.
Also, anybody interested in car computers will know that we have a good choice of 12VDC powered DC supplies for ATX boards. One in particular is also integrated in the plug. It's slightly bigger and I believe only supplies around 80-90watts.
So all in all this is an impressive technical feat of miniturisation, but by far not revolutionary, simply an evulutionary step towards a slightly smaller component.
SN
I used to work on the AutoPC project, and I can tell you that it really wasn't about being an in-car PC. The key players in the project were audiophiles, so it was more about building a really cool car stereo than building an applications platform. I left the project once I found out that the car companies (rightfully) wanted to sign and approve applications so that people wouldn't return a $40K vehicle because the applications running on the PC were crashing. I couldn't see the financial incentive for any ISV to build an app that they couldn't sell until someone in Detroit approved it.
Welcome to the US, where the obvious is not only insightful, but usually patentable!
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
I though it was a 110-240v AC input PSU. That would be impressive. But a 12v DC input? Doesn't seem very impressive to me. My RC heli's speed controller takes a ~12v input and puts out 4.8v aswell as being an efficiant MOSFET speed controller and it's about the size of 2 AAA batteries. An ATX PSU doesn't strike me as being that much more complex. I could be wrong.
How efficient is an AC-DC external power brick if you wanted to use this in home?
See the shapes on that power supply? The ones that say "pat. pend" on them? Look at your computer motherboard, right next to the CPU. You'll see those same shapes on there (they're wound inductors).
This is a 120W DC-DC power supply. If you have a 120W CPU, you already have a 120W DC-DC power supply on your motherboard. A very sophisticated one, too, as the supplies to your processor have to be digitally adjustable and hold their voltage very accurately at very high currents.
So it isn't really odd to see this thing. It's a good application of a very common technology.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
Five years ago I build my car mp3 player using a fanless 500Mhz Via C3 with a casetronic case. The really nice thing about the casetronics is that they have an external brick power supply that provides 12V DC to the casetronic. The casetronic itself does all the DC to DC conversions and unlike this new tiny DC to DC converter the casetronic is designed for 12 car operation. When I go out on the road, I simply unplug the brick from the jack in the back, mount my casetronic in the truck and plug it into the car's 12 volt system. You can find more about casetronic cases here:c ts_id/416
http://www.logicsupply.com/product_info.php/produ
One other note, an external timer circuit is also availble. When the ignition is turned off, the system is notified via the serial port that the power is going down. This allows my Linux car mp3 player to initiate a shutdown. After 60 seconds the timer circut automatically turns of the power to the casetronic.
OK so these are not for you computer but they make them really small http://www.rit.edu/~physics/Research/nanopower.sht ml
OMG Ponies!!! with Glitter!!!! I miss Pink
I've been looking for a DC->DC converter so I can remove my inverter from my battery backup power to my servers. But I have yet to find an inexpensive DC/DC. Most are over $50 and I need six or more to do my rack. Is there anything out there for around $25?
Going from:
Charger 12v -> Batteries 12v -> Inverter 120v -> Power Supply 12v -> MB
To:
Charger 12v -> Batteries 12v -> DC/DC 12v -> MB
The above is not worth reading.