PSP To Increase U.S. Lead Over DS

Next Generation has a piece on an analyst's prediction that Sony's PSP will gain more ground on the Nintendo DS, here in the states, over the next five years. From the article: "SIG has compared year-by-year sales and estimates for the first five years of each machine's life, using sell-in and factory shipments. It points out that in its first year both PSP and DS managed around 13 million units each, with DS slightly ahead. Year two cumulative stats give PSP 25 million over DS' 22 million. In Year Three the difference rises to ten million (38m to 28m). In Year Four, PSP's lead has stretched to 15 million and to 20 million by Year Five." Though the PSP is now leading in the U.S., the DS is still king of the mountain in Japan.

Comments

So sad.

[Deliveranc3]

Poor American PSP owners :(

when did the psp outsell the ds?

[Anonymous Coward]

I mean units in customers hands, not in retail channels.

Seriously, when? Anybody got a source?

Re:when did the psp outsell the ds?

[Anonymous Coward]

Or is it? The summary says "gain ground", yet the headline says "increase lead". Winning or losing? I wish they'd make their mind up.

Re:when did the psp outsell the ds?

[buffer-overflowed]

Never as far as I know. Unless they saw enormous(and I mean enormous) sales numbers over the christmas holidays, it's not possible. The DS was leading the PSP by 3:1 going into that.

Re:when did the psp outsell the ds?

[Anonymous Coward]

It hasn't outsold the Nintendo DS for more than a couple of weeks at a time; and may never outsell the DS.

Unfortunately (for Sony fans) Sony is demonstrating an understanding of the market on a much worse level than they had with either the Playstation or PS2; at the same time Nintendo is demonstrating an understanding of the market at a much higher level than they have since the SNES.

Basically Sony thinks that people want a (3rd rate) MP3 player and a (2nd rate) Portable DVD player at a higher price than both of the components would cost together; on top of that their games are middle of the road, boring ports/clones/sequels of PS2 games. On the other hand Nintendo has focused on producing a low cost gaming system; their games are demonstrating a reasonably high quality and originality level for a new platform.

Pretty soon both systems will have price cuts, the Nintendo DS will be at a price level where it is gift friendly for most families, many people can purchase it on a whim, and small children/young teens can easily save up for one; the PSP will still be a pretty large investment for most gamers. Basically, the Nintendo DS will increase it's market dominance when it hits the mass-market price range well before the PSP.

Re:when did the psp outsell the ds?

[copenja]

Could we get your source for number of DS units sold in US only? thanks, Jake

Re:when did the psp outsell the ds?

[Anonymous Coward]

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chroni cle/archive/2005/12/26/BUGLNGCO6C1.DTL&type=tech

According to this source, it hasnt.

Re:when did the psp outsell the ds?

[sdhankin]

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/aei/2006/01/handheld_ unit_s.html

And according to this source, it has. Who's right? I haven't seen any figures for the US that I'd actually consider believable. My impression is that in the US, the 2005 numbers were neck and neck. However, considering that the DS sold for 12 months in 2005, whereas the PSP sold for 9, the PSP has a better trend.

Re:when did the psp outsell the ds?

[Anonymous Coward]

NPD figures are quoted in the San Fran article(as well as on Gamestop, IGN, etc.). Nothing is quoted in the San Jose Blog article. It's just figures pulled out of someone's ass and put on a Reporter's Blog.

Re:when did the psp outsell the ds?

[ClamIAm]

The GP didn't quote any numbers, he was merely pointing out that the numbers Sony most often quotes are the number of units shipped to retailers. I realize being a Sony fanboy is tough with the abomination that is the PSP, but you don't need to resort to petty trolling to cover up the fact that you have no counter-argument.

Re:when did the psp outsell the ds?

[ShaneThePain]

a blog is NOT a reputable source.

Re:when did the psp outsell the ds?

[buffer-overflowed]

Probably not the guy who is posting on a blog, basically citing himself, and rattling off numbers above what Sony themselves have said. Ladies and gentleman, the Sony fan. Take a bow. You're killing the industry and produce nothing of value.

I was wrong earlier btw, it's not 3:1, it's a tad under 2:1(around 1.8:1). A bit under 4 million(3.6) total for the DS since it's launch late 2004, and just over 2 million(2.1) for the PSP launched just outside Q1 of this year. That's just going off NPD funworld, who are generally reliable(except they no not what happens within wal-mart, but then again NO ONE does) and above all agenda free.

Seriously, IGN, Gamespot, NPD, numerous other gaming news sites ALL have similar numbers, and your counter is a guy who happens to work for an insignificant news agency and who is basically citing himself on his blog.

Re:when did the psp outsell the ds?

[sdhankin]

Seriously, IGN, Gamespot, NPD, numerous other gaming news sites ALL have similar numbers, and your counter is a guy who happens to work for an insignificant news agency and who is basically citing himself on his blog.

Hey, I never said he was believable - quite the contrary, in fact. I posted his numbers as another example of figures we can't get the real info from.

The problem with IGN, Gamespot, and numerous other gaming new sites is that they all quote NPD. They are all the same source. And we have no idea where NPD got their numbers either. Face it - only Sony really knows how many they sold in 2005, and they haven't said.

Oh - and the post I responded to was also used NPD. I guess those are the only acceptable numbers here.

I wonder why?

Re:when did the psp outsell the ds?

[sdhankin]

By the way, where are you getting your NPD numbers? I've been to their site, and I can't find anything even remotely resembling PSP/DS sales numbers in the US. If you go back to the blog I listed above, one of the comments said the PSP outsold the DS by 500,000 units *according to NDP*. Where'd he get his numbers?

Sadly, most of the posts don't give any references at all. Those that do give extremely vague ones. Where is a person supposed to get real numbers?

Re:when did the psp outsell the ds?

[Meagermanx]

The price of the Nintendo DS (A bit more than the cost of two new XBOX 360 games) was a major factor in me getting mine. I'd never buy a new PSP over a DS for two reasons: the screen is unprotected and I've heard they've had hardware problems with dead pixels and a slightly unresponsive button. Plus, hey, let's be honest, they're hella expensive.

Re:when did the psp outsell the ds?

[Pii]

I wasn't aware the dead pixel issue still existed. I figured that was an early production problem that had been sorted out.

I bought my PSP from that first run, and I've been very pleased with it. No dead pixels, and no issues with button response.

It's really not even in the same category as the DS though. The PSP, while an exceptional game machine, is so versatile. It's great for watching movies. It's a decent portable web browser (so long as you don't have to do any text entry).

My only complaints would be the relatively low number of available game titles (which seems to be improving of late), and the lack of internal storage.

I suspect that when the second generation PSP hits the streets, it'll address the storage issue, and it'll likely play all of the legacy titles.

If something happened to mine, I'd definately be willing to pay to replace it. Likewise, I'll buy the nextgen PSP whenever it comes out.

Re:when did the psp outsell the ds?

[copenja]

I wasn't trying to argue, I was looking for links to better data. Jake

Re:when did the psp outsell the ds?

[masamax]

If they truely did not understand the market, then why would both systems be doing relatively well? I love to hear fanboys claim how the PSP is destined for failure inheirently because the DS exists, but both systems show no real signs of slowdown. In fact, these systems both appear to be gaining momentum, and have gotten over the speed bump that always plauges new systems in the first 12 months. Normally there wouldn't be room for two handhelds, but as it has been stated, these are targeting a fundimentally different market segment.

What I actually find funny about this is that Nintendo fanboys say the Revolution will succeed because it is targeting a different market than the PS3 and Xbox 360 rather than directly competing, yet when someone says the same thing about the PSP they consider it foolishness. Yes, they are both handheld gaming systems, but then again, Laptops and Desktops are both computers, and yet somehow there are markets for both. Funny how that works eh. It's almost like people want different things...

Re:when did the psp outsell the ds?

[Anonymous Coward]

So the only problem with your portable GAME system is teh lack of quality GAMES for it? Oddly enough i have the exact same problem with my psp which has been collecting dust since before xmas. At first i was totally happy with it, great launch line-up which i own most of, neat multimedia features, etc. Unfortunately i have only bought 4 games since launch (virtua tennis, gta, burnout and socom) and will probably pick up hot shots golf BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING ELSE TO PLAY ON THIS SODDING EXCUSE FOR A GAME SYSTEM. If i wanted aportasble dvd player, i would have bought one. On the other hand I do play my technologically inferior DS almost daily.

Re:when did the psp outsell the ds?

[Hitto]

Maybe that's because when sony fanbois pull this argument, they wrap it around a nice helping of "yeah, becuz nintendo's for pokémon and mario kiddiez LOL"

So, in all fairness, stfu.

Re:when did the psp outsell the ds?

[CronoCloud]

I bought my PSP from that first run, and I've been very pleased with it. No dead pixels, and no issues with button response.

Same here.

It's really not even in the same category as the DS though. The PSP, while an exceptional game machine, is so versatile. It's great for watching movies. It's a decent portable web browser (so long as you don't have to do any text entry).

Right. A lot of people say the price is high, but it really isn't taking all the things it does into account.

My only complaints would be the relatively low number of available game titles (which seems to be improving of late), and the lack of internal storage.

Yes, there's finally games I'm interested in. And I'm really hoping any PSP2 has a microdrive in it. It needs it. It also needs a second analog nub and two more shoulder buttons.

Re:when did the psp outsell the ds?

[Anonymous Coward]

If they truely did not understand the market, then why would both systems be doing relatively well?

So the PSP is demonstrating the market interest and sales of either of their previous systems?

What I said was quite clear, "Sony is demonstrating an understanding of the market on a much worse level than they had with either the Playstation or PS2." Sony has (essentially) tried to produce the PS2 in a portable format without understanding what people liked about portable games; the (existing) market is made up of people who want something simple and quick to pick up on the go, and people who feel like they have been left behind in the home console market; there are tons of people who saw very little benefit in moving from 2D games to 3D games and yet, by not being a majority of the userbase, have been left out since the N64/Playstation were produced. What product did Sony produce for these users? A system with long load times, where the company in charge (Sony) discourages any simple (in particular 2D) games from being produced. The multimedia functionality is helping the PSP sell, but in itself the market for MP3 players and portable DVD players has enough competition that the PSP can not gain market dominance in this area; the highly popular iPod Video is selling at a very similar price point, and in the near future you'll have $99 DVD players that have 10-12 inch screens.

The facts are that Nintendo is generating sales and market interest on a level they have not seen since the SNES, the Nintendo DS will hit a price point ($79-$99) where it becomes much more gift friendly, small children and young teens can save up for it, and it will be easy for many adults to purchase on a whim. The Sony PSP on the other hand will take years to get to that point and will probably be selling in the $179-$199 range in the near future; this all means that, with good marketing, Nintendo should be able to increase their lead.

I don't see anything in your post that disputes these claims, what I do see is someone who is angry that the Nintendo has built a massive ammount of support and buzz for both the Nintendo DS and Revolution by producing a product that everyone wants/owns and attempting something risky that may provide unique (and interesting) gameplay.

Sony is a good company but their entire strategy seems to be "put a clock in an existing product and re-sell it" (not literally); what I mean by this is that Sony constantly adds features without asking whether there is any added benefit to their core users (this wouldn't be bad if, for example, you had the PSP selling at the exact same price point as the Nintendo DS but the added cost without much of an added benefit detracts from the product)

Re:when did the psp outsell the ds?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't see anything in your post that disputes these claims, what I do see is someone who is angry that the Nintendo has built a massive ammount of support and buzz for both the Nintendo DS and Revolution by producing a product that everyone wants/owns and attempting something risky that may provide unique (and interesting) gameplay.

Dude, you missed the other guys point entirely. Go back and re-read. His point wasn't that Nintendo hasen't hit a homerun with the DS, the numbers don't lie (as you point out). Rather, his point is that Sony has seemed to have also found a market for the PSP, since it too is selling well (that it is selling more or less than DS is beyond the point, it is doing well in it's own right). Did Nintendo nail their market, yes, it's the market they know best. Is Sony performing well for it's intended market, yes, perhaps not a runaway success, but certainly enough to keep the platform going for a good while.

what I mean by this is that Sony constantly adds features without asking whether there is any added benefit to their core users (this wouldn't be bad if, for example, you had the PSP selling at the exact same price point as the Nintendo DS but the added cost without much of an added benefit detracts from the product)

Are you kidding? If Sony had released a much less powerful PSP that could be sold at the same pricepoint as the DS, who on earth would buy a PSP? Nintendo has a huge leg up in that market, and anyone wanting to play is either going to have to offer a lot more than the Nintendo (Sony's approach), and/or be prepared to bleed money eternally (the Microsoft approach to trying to gain market share).

Re:when did the psp outsell the ds?

[mausmalone]

The PSP hasn't outsold the DS in any market, and thanks to this holiday season in Japan, it's trailing the DS fairly soundly in global sales. The article predicts that the PSP will outsell the DS in year two (which, if you're being specific, started in Novemeber for the DS and in January for the PSP). As far as "increasing" the lead, that's just a bad title, and it should probably be changed to "gaining" the lead for clarity's sake. How about it, Zonk?

And just for the record, industry analysts have reported such gems as "Microsoft to buy Nintendo in 5 years", "Nintendo to buy Sega" and "Duke Nukem Forever to be released in Fall 2001." I'd take what they say with a grain of salt.

Re:when did the psp outsell the ds?

[Total_Wimp]

Unfortunately (for Sony fans) Sony is demonstrating an understanding of the market on a much worse level than they had with either the Playstation or PS2; at the same time Nintendo is demonstrating an understanding of the market at a much higher level than they have since the SNES.

Unfortunately, Slashdotters don't understand math.

Here are some prices as of 5 min ago from EB games. This is an ansorment of goods that a buyer of either console might actually purchase. "But people would buy more/less games at the outset!" you may say. Maybe, but if we assume the number is the same for each the point still holds out. "But nobody buys UMDs!" you may say. You are wrong. Visiting any Best buy will school you on this one. "But some people won't buy that much memory!" You're right. I don't know what the breakdown is so I guessed.

The point is that Sony has a cut in some fashion or another from a pie more than twice as big as the Nintendo pie. Not only is the console twice as expensive, but so are most of the games. Add on UMDs and memory and it's pretty easy to see that Sony makes a lot more from each customer than Nintendo does.

Ok, now for the quiz of the day: If Sony sells slightly less units of the PSP than Nintendo does of the DS, which boardroom is full of happier people? Saying Sony doesn't understand it's market is just silly.

Source = EB Games

DS
129.99 = console
69.98 = 2 games
199.97 - Total

PSP
249.99 = Console
79.98 = 2 games
39.98 = 2 UMDs
79.99 = 512 MB Memory Stick
449.94 - Total

Re:when did the psp outsell the ds?

[masamax]

Without that extra benefit how could the PSP hope to compete? In fact, Sony knows EXACTLY who they are targeting with the PSP, and while there is some overlap with the DS (and some who will choose the DS over the PSP) the fact is that those who choose one or the other do so based on the functions of the machine.

Again, how can one ignore this arguement given the relative success of both machines? Regardless of how expensive each is, both are actually selling fairly well, and I suspect they will continue to do so. If history has taught us anything though, there is no room for handhelds that target the same market. Much like Nintendo knows their place in the console market and is building upon their strengths with that, Sony knows their place in the handheld market.

Re:when did the psp outsell the ds?

[Anonymous Coward]

Until you also point out research, development, manufacturing, and marketing costs, you have just displayed that it is YOU who does not understand math.

Consider, from your seat at the Sony table:

  - The PSP hardware is estimated to sell at a considerable loss, whereas the DS hardware is estimated to sell at a profit.

  - Much in the same way that PS2 games are KNOWN to be more expensive to develop than GBA games, PSP games are estimated to be more expensive to develop than DS games.

  - Your comparison includes software sales that favor the PSP (4 units vs. 2 units for the DS). This is misleading, and I hope it's not intentional. There are multiple multi-million selling DS titles, both worldwide and per region. Overall software sales on the PSP are not even close to being in the same league.

Math with misleading numbers is worthless, unless it is intended to mislead. Poor math (ignoring significant variables) is simply unjustifiable, and damn if any self-respecting scientist is going to let that slide.

Re:when did the psp outsell the ds?

[Total_Wimp]

Well I would agree that neither of us has hard, fast numbers. Unless we sat in on the financials of both organizations, we'd be unlikely to get them either. However, my premise still holds a lot of water. Sony has built a device that welcomes different kinds of media which they will also make a profit on.

The 4 vs. 2 software you mention isn't just 4 games vs. 2 games. It's 2 games plus 2 movies vs. 2 games. There is evidence to support that PSP owners view buying movies differently then they view buying games (Best Buy now puts them in a seperate section) and there is every reason to believe that movies will be bought in addition to games. The 4 vs. 2 was intentionally done in order to point out that this is an additional revenue stream that the DS is not able to take part in.

Memory sticks have a similar role. Sony gets a cut of every MS made, even if its a Sandisk brand (licensing). Almost every PSP owner will buy some additional memory for some additional cost. The DS doesn't have anything equivilent. This is a revenue stream exlusive to Sony.

When you add that all up, including the price of the console, Sony has a bigger potential pie. Since Sony has the movies, the memory and presumably larger licensing fees for the games, they have the potential to make more total dollars out of each console sold. Provided they dont' squander this potential too badly (exactly how big is that loss on each console? How bad is that games per console ratio?), they're going to win if each company sells the same number of units.

Don't get me wrong, Nintendo could still beat Sony on dollars per unit if they are very efficient and sell lots more games. But Sony starts out with a much better potential and I'd be very suprised to see them not win on this measure.

TW

DS is my choice

[elasticwings]

While they are both fun pieces of hardware in their own respect. I just have a thing for Nintendo and the fact that they still make games that are just fun. This is the same reason I prefer to have a Gamecube over other consoles and will probably buy a Revolution. I just like fun games.

Re:DS is my choice

[AcidTag]

Why settle and get both, I know I'm glad I did, now they arent lonely on the shelf collecting dust.

Re:DS is my choice

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

"While they are both fun pieces of hardware in their own respect. I just have a thing for Nintendo and the fact that they still make games that are just fun. This is the same reason I prefer to have a Gamecube over other consoles and will probably buy a Revolution. I just like fun games."

Boy I hear that. I had a PSP for a short period of time. Even though I was having fun with Liberty City Stories, the machine still felt very much like a gadget. (as opposed to a game machine.) I ended up buying another DS for my girlfriend and a copy of Mario Kart. You mentioned just liking having games that are fun... I hear ya, man. Although I am getting called 'bastard' a lot these days. ;)

Re:DS is my choice

[MyDixieWrecked]

I got a DS the day it came out... then got a PSP as soon as I could get my hands on one (january 7th, 2005); japanese unit.

I love my DS and I had sawaru (the wario game), jump all stars, mario64ds, and that trauma center game, plus I've borrowed my friends' games like kirby and the pacman game. the DS rocks...

although, the PSP has lumines which had kept my attention far more than the DS. I also had an NES emulator on there with more ROMs than I could ever play. The psp looks beautiful and the looks alone provide entertainment sometimes. Watching movies/tv shows/pr0n on the thing is pretty sweet, too (although, I'd never buy a UMD movie).

the PSP feels more versatile since you can run so many alternate apps on it, but the DS is just so much more creative. The #1 thing that's killing the PSP, though, is the lack of decent games. Seriously, every game for it feels like a PS2 game crammed into the handheld. there's nothing original about it. they're all sequals. Lumines is the only shining star, but it did dull-out after 8 months.

too bad I bricked my PSP during a botched official firmware update and now I gotta call japan to see how to get it fixed. oh well.

Re:DS is my choice

[rrdm2k]

I have both a DS and a PSP and I have to admit I prefer the DS. The real proof of the DS' popularity is my housemates reactions to it. I am currently in my third and final year of uni and I live in a fairly geeky household off campus. One of my housemates has just bought a DS (after months of temptation) and after seeing our wireless advance wars and mario kart battles, my other two housemates are considering getting ones as well. The only interest they've expressed in the PSP so far has been "Ooh, it has a nice screen".

Re:DS is my choice

[TrekCycling]

Right. So, so far the best use of the PSP (and I hear this from everyone who owns one or is buying one) is to pirate games.

Re:DS is my choice

[MukiMuki]

See, that's why I got one of those annoying product replacement plans for mine at Best Buy.

Usually I don't bother, but for fragile stuff (Sony products, iPods) I pick up an extended warantee ASAP. Accidental if I can find it.

After realizing that I wasn't going to find a new RPG on the PSP to save my life that was worth a damn, I just broke down and "traded in" my PSP.

Got a DS, two RPG's ( Lunar 'n Mario & Luigi ), and an $80 gift card.

Traded in THUG2 for Shining Force GBA, and now my DS has two nice, long-lasting games on-hand whenever I need it =3

Re:DS is my choice

[MyDixieWrecked]

yeah, I'm waiting for the new Ys game for the PSP to come out in the US (if it ever does/ if I ever get my PSP fixed).

how's lunarDS? I have the GBA one. I kinda liked it, a little. sorta.

I'm a little disappointed with the RPGs in general these days. I want something like Ys 1&2 (from the TG16/CD), Zelda: Link to the Past, or Final Fantasy 1.

I believe that only a handheld can truly take full advantage of an RPG. You can casually play and level up when you have a moment when you're out and about, or, during a long train ride, you can take care of a more complex story arc.

Re:DS is my choice

[bleaknik]

Right. So, so far the best use of the PSP (and I hear this from everyone who owns one or is buying one) is to pirate games.

... to pirate Nintendo games.

Re:DS is my choice

[MagusSlurpy]

Not true. It makes a good hammer, as well ;)

Re:DS is my choice

[CronoCloud]

The #1 thing that's killing the PSP, though, is the lack of decent games. Seriously, every game for it feels like a PS2 game crammed into the handheld. there's nothing original about it. they're all sequals. Lumines is the only shining star, but it did dull-out after 8 months.

Here's what I don't get.

People have been complaining for years about how they wish portable gaming systems had better than SNES quality graphics and could play games like the current consoles play and when Sony gives gamers one, they still complain.

It's near PS2 graphical quality games! On a handheld! You'd think people would be more appreciative of that fact. There's no need to turn a 3D game into a 2D game like that 2D Tomb Raider for the GBC or that isometric Spyro game. You can do a Diablo clone that looks better than Diablo. You can do a real honest to goodness 3D racing game without any SNES Mode 7 type tricks

Re:DS is my choice

[CronoCloud]

Of course now they finally come out with new RPG's for the PSP, just to spite you. Took them long enough.

Re:DS is my choice

[MyDixieWrecked]

People have been complaining for years about how they wish portable gaming systems had better than SNES quality graphics and could play games like the current consoles play and when Sony gives gamers one, they still complain

I'm not one of those people. I'm one of those assholes that thinks the videogame industry has been using graphics as a crutch to support poorly designed, poorly thought-out, poorly executed games. I'm not saying that a great game can't have excellent graphics (Shadow of the Collosus is one of my favourite games of all time, right now). I'm saying that the entire modern videogame library is filled with the same stuff and there's very little originality.

now, that's not to say that I blame them. There's a ton of money to be made. Also, at the rate that they pump out new games and the rate that everyone and their little brother wants to become a videogame developer, there's really no direction for games to go. (on a side-note: I'm SICK of FPS games on consoles. wtf is up with the 360's launch games?)

It's near PS2 graphical quality games! On a handheld! You'd think people would be more appreciative of that fact. ... You can do a real honest to goodness 3D racing game without any SNES Mode 7 type tricks

I'm appreciative of the graphics. I'm just disappointed with their choice of games. Ridge Racers was spectacular. Tony Hawk was a let-down. Some games translate well to a handheld, but others, you really need a larger screen. I don't think I could play shadow of the colossus or narutimate hero on a PSP, but something like soul calibur might work. It's all about level of detail, eyestrain, and on-the-road playability.

Re:DS is my choice

[TrekCycling]

Indeed. That's the irony. Of course, one could argue that maybe they wouldn't be doing that AS MUCH if Nintendo would release these games for the DS in emulation themselves. Sell them, iPod style or something.

Who am I kidding, they'd still pirate the games.

stock-market

[Shar-Kali-Sharri]

If only the stock-market could be predicted in this way, then I would be a rich man ....

Re:stock-market

[FidelCatsro]

The best way to make money on these things, is to take what the analysts say and bet on the exact opposite, if you do it often enough you are bound to make a fortune.
Like I always say "The year they stop predicting the end of the world , is the year i start to worry".

I 3 mine

[Fr05t]

I got a PSP in November and I love it. Great for watching movies, listening to mp3s, playing of favorite games (emulated). It might not be for everyone, but I've really enjoyed mine.

Re:I 3 mine

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, just like a GP2X, which is way cheaper and doesn't need f****** downgrades nor exploits.

Re:I 3 mine

[Austerity Empowers]

I like mine too, but:
- The games are too expensive
- The UMD format pisses me off: I already have DVD's, I don't want to buy the same movie twice
- The lack of USB storage support infuriates me...I refuse to buy yet another memory device

So while it's a great piece of hardware, and there's lots I can do with it, from Sony's perspective there's no way they can make money from me, they've priced themselves out of the game.

But still, it's a damn nice toy.

Re:I 3 mine

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

"I got a PSP in November and I love it. Great for watching movies, listening to mp3s, playing of favorite games (emulated). It might not be for everyone, but I've really enjoyed mine."

I bought a PSP in December, and I hated it. Here's my little story:

    I bought the $300 'giga-pack' which came with the 1 gig card. This seemed the only way to not get totally screwed on flash memory. (It was like $120 to buy the 1 gig card seperately, even though equivalent SD and Compact Flash was a lot cheaper...) When I got it home, I made a huge mess opening up the box. Man there was lots of crap in there. In retrospect, it wasn't all bad. Case for the unit, headphones + remote, cleaning cloth, etc. (my main reason for bitching about it was that it was a total pain in the ass to bundle all that shit back together into the box.)

When I turned it on, I noticed 4 stuck pixels on it. I'm not overly pissy about that considering that they're very small and barely noticable (I could only see them on black loading screens etc), but it does speak volumes about Sony's commitment to quality.

I played Liberty City Stories for a little while. I'm happy to report that loading times were not unreasonable and the game was actually quite fun. However, after about 15 minutes into it, something peculiar started to happen. Somehow the Home button was making contact with the casing. If I tapped the unit: "Would you like to quit this game?" would show up. (Note: This would NOT pause the game, either.) I lost a few missions this way. I'd try to shoot somebody and all the sudden the PSP thought I was pressing the Home button. Commitment to quality.

I took the PSP back to Best Buy to exchange it. They were out of 'Giga packs'. They sold out around Christmas, and honestly, I haven't been able to find any since. I asked them if they'd just open up one of the other PSP boxes and do a swap. No dice. (Although they did point out that they'd have been happy to do that had I paid for the replacement warranty. Assholes.)

I never got around to having much fun on that system, I'm sad to say. To Sony's credit, I think I was the victim of bad luck. Can't say it matters much anyway, though. I went and bought a second DS along with Mario Kart. My GF and I have been having a lot of fun with that.

Re:I 3 mine

[TrekCycling]

Once again. More emulation. I'd like to see some stats on the MONEY being made off each system. Because I'm guessing that Nintendo is actually selling games. Not just emulation machines.

Re:I 3 mine

[Pii]

Why would you buy UMD movies? Rip your DVDs to MP4, and save them on your memory stick. (If you're opposed to Sony's memory stick, there are third party devices that will allow you to use virtually any other compact storage medium (CF/SD/etc).)

I use PSP Movie Creator, which allows you to adjust your quality settings based on your available storage. It rips at roughly 2.5x normal viewing speed, and produces excellent results.

UMD is teh suck.

Variety and depth of games?

[lpangelrob]

Either SIG has a magic crystal ball, or the killer PSP games I haven't heard about (especially the super killer ones to be released on 5 years) will kick the DS around the curb. Seeing how the whole PSP movies thing didn't exactly tide over the country (as opposed to the, oh, I dunno... video iPod?).

In the meantime, I hear that Mario Kart DS is doing surprisingly well.

Re:Variety and depth of games?

[negative3]

Agreed. Nintendo is also probably going to have another portable out within 5 years as well. How will the PSP be seen then?

Re:Variety and depth of games?

[Fred Or Alive]

As the older brother to the PSP2? :-)

Re:Variety and depth of games?

[Anonymous Coward]

The PSP's been doing better in terms of getting variety. I've seen screenshots of a PSP game where the goal is to navigate a blob through a maze by tilting the maze (alas, no motion sensors, you use the buttons) and the blob can break up into droplets, squeeze through cracks, etc. At least it looks interesting. Plus, the upcoming Lemmings PSP game looks like it's joining the ranks of the few console games with user-created content with a full blown level editor that can save to the memory stick (and then swap levels on the internet). Hopefully it's a known franchise that will sell better than old playstation "RPG Maker" games did. Maybe Sony will permit the PS3 port of Unreal Tournament 2k7 will allow players to load up maps and mods from a PC too, if not compete head to head with mouse-armed gamers.

Re:Variety and depth of games?

[Anonymous Coward]

Odd definition of variety, screenshots vs Nintendogs, Trauma Center, Animal Crossing, Kirby Canvas and Electro Plankton.

Re:Variety and depth of games?

[Jearil]

The game you're referring to is called Mercury, and it's an interesting puzzle game. I have it. You can also color the mercury with ink jets laying around and combine different colored pieces for new colors (blue mercury + red mercury = purple mercury) for getting past certain doors and whatnot. However, Mercury was released like March of 2005, not long after release of the PSP. There's really a large short of good PSP Games. I hear the GTA game is good if you like GTA games.. basically the same ol' on a handheld. But new and interesting games are very hard to find even it being almost a year after release.

I have both the DS and PSP, and I will say the PSP's display and graphics kick the DS out of the water. It looks sooo pretty. However, the only things I'm actually viewing on the PSP is ripped movies on a 512mb memory stick. Lumines is good.. but I can't really say that for anything else. The DS however surprised the shit out of me with things like Kerby (totally awesome), Mario Kart, and Advanced Wars Dual Strike. I look forward to picking up the new Mario game as well.

Sony really needs to get some 3rd party support. The system is very nice, with decent control placement (barring the horrid analog stick) that could really do some nice games. I'd even take a FFVII port at this point, just someone make a damn good game for the system!

Re:Variety and depth of games?

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, the lack of games now and hot ones in the pipeline is why I question any of these "the PSP is going to outsell the DS" perditions.

While there are a few titles(well, just Ridge Racer and Lumines) I want, there still are not enough to justify buying one. The most that people talk about besides those two titles(and maybe GTALSC, but that is getting a PS2 release), is the other "game" of running loads of romz. I might as well wait until the thing is at the end of its life, and maybe goes down in price a good amount.

Re:Variety and depth of games?

[Pii]

Lumenes and Mercury are good puzzlers... I've been very pleased with Star Wars Battlefront II, and Infected is a great multiplayer FPS (with Internet matchups, or Ad-hoc play). Wipeout Pure is pretty good. Ridge Racer is great. I've not started the new X-men game, but it's sitting here next to me...

I'm not a 'gamer' per se... I rarely stick with a game till I've beaten it, and I typically end up with only about a dozen titles for whatever system I happen to own.

Mostly, I like the PSP for all if the other things it does. Couple it with Location Free (Sony's version of the Slingbox), and you've got a killer mobile media solution.

Nothing like forecasting the future

[EggyToast]

I'm sure analysts also thought Google stock wouldn't go up in value, and that Ford would be king of the car industry for decades to come. And Apple will never use an Intel chip; they might as well dissolve the company since no Apple product will ever be popular.

All I see in the future are a handful of PS2 ports for the PSP, and a veritable boatload of original games for the DS. I suppose the PSP is popular if you really like GTA and watching movies...

If analysts really think that a trickle of overpriced UMD movies can propel the PSP to a drastic lead, well... I'd like what they're smoking.

Re:Nothing like forecasting the future

[CronoCloud]

All I see in the future are a handful of PS2 ports for the PSP

It wasn't that long ago that people would have killed to be able to play games of similar graphical quality to the ones they played on their current console of choice. To not have to have 3D games turned into 2D games, or 2D games with only 4 shades of gray instead of 16 colors or sprites 1/4th the size.

Magic statistics

[voice_of_all_reason]

Is this from the department of obviousness department?

It's like saying that the Chronicles of Narnia DVD is narrowing the lead of the Predator DVD.

DS came out first. Of course sales will be increasing at a slower rate than the PSP, which came out a relatively short time ago. If the article is trying to answer the "what is more popular?" question, the only thing that (should) matter is total sales over the lifetime of the unit, which is a much more difficult beast of a problem.

Re:Magic statistics

[LWATCDR]

"It's like saying that the Chronicles of Narnia DVD is narrowing the lead of the Predator DVD."
Bad example. I would bet that Chronicles will be one of the most popular DVDs ever.

Re:Magic statistics

[Anonymous Coward]

Is this from the department of obviousness department?

I'm pretty sure that joke only works with "redundancy", not "obviousness".

Dipshit.

Re:Magic statistics

[oscartheduck]

Wouldn't that actually make it a good example of what he's saying?

new Gameboy

[astrokid]

What happens to the PSP when the next Gameboy arrives?

Note. Not trolling, Nintendo has always stated that the DS is their Third Pillar, the other two being their console and the real Gameboy.

I'm really suprised at how the DS has been recieved over here, sure it got off to a slow start, but lately it's been picking up steam. The PSP has suprised me also, I never expected UMDs to sell as well as they've reportedly been doing.

Re:new Gameboy

[EggyToast]

I'm not that surprised. People bought the system for games, and they end up buying the movies because there's really no games.

Ultimately I think Sony may have achieved what it wanted, although more by dropping the ball on game development compared to actual effort. They said they wanted to create more of a multimedia device, rather than pure games. In some regards, they've succeeded -- many PSP owners don't use the device for games all that much. They use it to watch UMDs, or hack it.

The catch, as I see it, is that the hacking market tends to be early adopters -- geeks if you will. They're the ones who snatch up gadgets and like to explore it. Sustained sales, though, those are more mass market appeal. Hacking a system, no matter how simple, is not something that appeals to most people. Similarly, you can't buy roms -- they don't sell MAME emulators in Best Buy.

So who is going to buy these millions of PSPs in the future? I know a LOT of people bought them once the emulators hit, but, well, that doesn't turn a profit -- game sales do. Outside of the puzzle game Lumines (which, while popular, isn't exactly a system seller), there's GTA. And a few racing games. Sony seems to not care about the future of the system for games; it just gets a few UMDs.

But I don't see the system focusing on movies hurting the sales of the DS, which focuses entirely on games, and has been selling very well.

Re:new Gameboy

[rishistar]

The problem for the DS in five years time is going to be the power and form factor of PDA or mobile phone buying sold then.....

Re:new Gameboy

[dq5 studios]

With the success of the DS, Nintendo decided to put the new Gameboy on the back burner and focus on the DS. You'll notice they only mentioned the DS being the third tier up until it became clear the DS wasn't just a gimmick and was actually good.

Re:new Gameboy

[ShawnDoc]

The "new gameboy" is already out, it's called the Micro. Really. Nintendo at the launch of the DS said the DS would not replace the Gameboy Advance and they were planning a new gameboy. Note, they never said they planned a new gameboy platform. So after the DS they launched the Gameboy Micro as the "new" gameboy. Same hardware platform, new smaller package.

Can't let you do that, Starfox.

[Stu L Tissimus]

Something that I have to point out about this article - It specifically states that Sony has sold 13m PSPs in the US. Sony hasn't released any info as pertains to PSP sales within the last three months. They've only said that they've shipped 10m PSPs to retailers sometime in December. Either thye have insider info, or the analysts are pulling this out of their ass. I'll assume it's the latter.

Am I misreading this?

[iainl]

The DS and PSP have both only been out for roughly a year. So this is really saying that the DS is ahead of the PSP here in reality-land, but some random analyst predicts that the PSP will win in America in the end.

Based on? Well, based on the fact that they refuse to believe that Sony could lose, it would seem.

Re:Am I misreading this?

[Ayaress]

Based on the fact that Sony is in full disaster-avoidance mode? The only "good" news that's come out of Sony recently has been this sort of, "Trust me, it'll kick ass, just pay us now and wait," stuff. They've had some pretty worrying news the last few months (the rootkit, talk about heavy DRM on the PS3, an inability to address price questions, manufacturing issues), and it's looking like the PS3 and Revolution will come out almost simultaneously. The worst news out of Nintendo, meanwhile, has been their goofy looking controller. Even if you don't like it (I don't, personally), it's still not distressing news by a long shot.

Re:Am I misreading this?

[Anonymous Coward]

They've had some pretty worrying news the last few months (the rootkit, talk about heavy DRM on the PS3, an inability to address price questions, manufacturing issues),

Err, of course you are going to hear more, Sony is significantly larger than Nintendo so will obviously be in the news more. Note that the rootkit issue has nothing to do with consoles. DRM is primarily an issue because Sony is planning on offering more features (non game related) than the Revo (which itself will have copy protection, which is also DRM for it's games). Price questions? Well let's face it, Nintendo needs to MAKE news for it's system and establish early where they see it fitting, Sony has no such worries. They can wait to see how the market is doing and price accordingly. Manuf issues, well yes, the PS3 is a technically aggressive piece of kit, so these types of things are not unexpected. All around, these things hardly make any sort of convincing argument about much of anything.

and it's looking like the PS3 and Revolution will come out almost simultaneously.

And who do you think this will negatively impact the most and who is most concerned about the timing?

It's good to be a PSP owner...

[Anonymous Coward]

In five years my handheld will rock!!!

You hear me?

exactly

[honold]

everybody uses it for movies, music, and emulation.

who cares how many systems they're selling if nobody buys the games?

Yeah, yeah ...

[hattig]

Silly Analyst.

PSP might be nice hardware, but until it gets the really fun games, people won't care. All I've heard is that the DS games are really fun, whilst the PSP games are a bit dull.

Has the PSP actually outsold the DS in the US anyway? I didn't think it had. Odd how the headline reads 'To Increase ... Lead', when it should probably be 'Predicted to take lead'.

And with the very suggestive 'Touch Me' adverts that appeal to adults, I don't see the DS losing out. However a redesign to be a bit less toylike would do it some good I think, like the SP did to the Advance.

And indeed, I bet the Advance is still selling strongly in the US...

Re:Yeah, yeah ...

[TrekCycling]

Actually, ironically, the Advance is still beating both systems, but no one bothers to mention that (even thought it has the highest installed base of any video game platform ever).

Re:Yeah, yeah ...

[mikolas]

PSP might be nice hardware, but until it gets the really fun games, people won't care. All I've heard is that the DS games are really fun, whilst the PSP games are a bit dull.

I, for one, bought PSP for its media capabilities. I tend to always carry around both PSP and an MP3 player so I decided to get a player with 60G disk and USB OTG support. That way I can easily carry around all my relevant music and 20 gigs of AVC movies (ripped from DVDs I already own). Of course, I have some games also, but the priority has been using PSP to watch videos as I commute quite a bit because of my work.

PS. I also have DS, but it is for my daughter so she can play Nintendogs :-). I think there isn't that much overlap with DS and PSP as they are clearly targeted at a different market segments, just like their traditional console counterparts.

Re:Yeah, yeah ...

[Psykus]

I kind of think that they don't even need to do a redesign of the Nintendo DS, just release it in a "Jet Black" edition (the same color as the Gamecube systems). It would look much less toy like then.

Re:Yeah, yeah ...

[damsa]

The DS comes in graphite black in Japan.

Re:Yeah, yeah ...

[forgotten_my_nick]

>PSP might be nice hardware, but until it gets the really fun games, people won't care. GBA emulator in the works. :) http://www.engadget.com/2005/06/22/game-boy-advanc e-emulator-for-psp/

Re:Yeah, yeah ...

[hattig]

Heh, one day later and we find out that there's a redesign of the DS!

(makes it looks more like the upcoming Revolution a bit, in terms of styling)

Hurrah.

Both systems are doing well

[MilenCent]

Both systems seem to be selling well. Being "in the lead" doesn't seem to matter for as much this time, since both systems are doing well.

The reason that it is good to follow the leadership of the various game system races so closely is that, if one system gains a substantial lead over a competitor, then developers will have to take a hard look at the opportunity costs of developing for one that's further behind.

In Japan, the DS has a clean, substantial lead, enough that it may begin to attract developer attention away from the PSP because of these opportunity costs. The fact that both systems are worldwide concerns mitigates this, but on the other hand, Japanese publishers (including, it needs to be said, Nintendo) tend to focus on the Japanese market first and foremost. But then, western developers also develop for their own markets, which may explain why GTA games and Halo do much better in the U.S. and Europe than over there.

and that's a big problem

[muel]

Everything you just lauded is bad news for publishers seeking to make a profit off PSP games. Why should third parties pump resources into PSP development if their title has to compete against UMD movies, mp3s, uploaded MPGs and (to a lesser but still decent extent) homebrew apps for a PSP owner's attention? Lots of talk has been made about system sales, but the bigger story is software sales; with this in mind, the DS is much more publisher-friendly, and that, more than anything, will tell the tale of which gaming system succeeds more. Sure, Sony is selling a slick piece of hardware, but if they're gonna recoup from a loss-per-unit-sold, that'll come from UMD movie profits, not game licensing.

Re:and that's a big problem

[Fr05t]

I do own several games in addition. I would probably buy more if there was a place in town renting UMD games. People not wanting to spend ~$60+ (CDN) on a game before playing might be why the software sales have been low.

Re:and that's a big problem

[forgotten_my_nick]

"Why should third parties pump resources into PSP development if their title has to compete against UMD movies, mp3s, uploaded MPGs and (to a lesser but still decent extent) homebrew apps for a PSP owner's attention?"

Your argument makes absolutly no sense whatsoever. It is like saying why should a company bother making games for the games consoles because you can watch DVD's, play music and play games on them. Heck you can even just watch TV.

DS is cheap because its a cheap system. they get you on the extras. For example you have to pay extra to get access to the internet. Where as the PSP is internet ready. PSP hooks up to a PC straight off while the DS again you have to pay extra for. Heck my PSP even recharges off my computer.

I watch/listened streamed video/audio on my PSP while in the house (Saves having to sit at the PC) and use it for reading (easier to read sites then using my PDA). It supports podcasting.

My local store now rents the UMDs in the same way as renting videos and the whole sony collection of movies/TV shows are available. Even then if I want to watch something for a journey and I don't have on UMD I just rip to memory card.

DS on the other hand is a games console, nothing more. Sure you can buy stuff to try to emulate the same fields as the PSP but the screen/audio just don't compare. If all you are interested in is playing games then go for the DS.

who cares?

[Khyron]

Since others have covered well the lunacy of predicting five years of sales on less than one year of data and no confirmed titles shipping beyond a few months from now, I'll move on to the underlying question I always have about this stuff... ...who cares? I mean seriously, are there people out there who go "ha ha my console makes more money than yours" or something? What a ridiculous idea. Why should a consumer care about anything other than whether they enjoy the thing and it offers the titles they want to play? This goes right up there with "oh this movie was good no matter what you say, because people bought a million tickets to it on the first day" or "that movie sucked, you can tell from the box office numbers."

Folks, good grief, just have some fun, this is entertainment.

Re:who cares?

[J-Doggqx]

I think it is the fact that anbody who just dropped $150 to $300 on a DS or PSP (respectively) would like to know if they're system is going to be the leader. If it is then that means that most of the cool games are going to come out for their system. If their system is second fiddle then it may get dropped or see limited game releases.

When I had a N64 I would see FF7, Metal Gear Solid, and other Playstation exclusives come out and I would think to myself, "Why dosen't my system have cool games like that?"

I think we are seeing something similar here.

Re:who cares?

[Anonymous Coward]

The article is not for end consumers but investitors, publishers and developers. These people care a *lot* about the installed base.

Note that I didn't say the prediction is right or wrong, just that it's not entertainment, it's .biz

Re:who cares?

[ivan256]

I think it is the fact that anbody who just dropped $150 to $300 on a DS or PSP (respectively) would like to know if they're system is going to be the leader.

I thought how it worked was you trash talked the one you didn't have, thus increasing the coolness of your particular choice. Clearly the one owned by the most foul mouthed of 12 year olds (or foul mouthed people who read at a 7th grade level) is the best.

Re:who cares?

[TrekCycling]

I've never understood people getting on "teams" for this kind of thing. It's very surreal. Rooting for one multinational billion dollar company to beat another one? What does the consumer get out of that? Less competition.

I would like to think that the main driving force (as I can see this as the only possible justification unless you hold stock in either company) would be that you have an intense desire to see your chosen platform not die and get well supported. Dreamcast fans could identify with this sentiment, I think. Of how the market, regardless of the quality of a product, can completely destroy a company and a system based on fanboy-dom.

But EVEN THAT justification is still weak. It's a video game system. If they stop making games for it enjoy the ones you have or pick a new one or quit gaming. If someday all gaming is Sony, since I don't like Sony consoles, I probably won't game. I'll pick up a new hobby and move no with my life.

Re:who cares?

[MagusSlurpy]

I've never understood people getting on "teams" for this kind of thing. It's very surreal. Rooting for one multinational billion dollar company to beat another one? What does the consumer get out of that? Less competition.

Bullshit. We saw this demonstrated years ago in the Sega/Nintendo wars. No matter what Sega tried, they just couldn't cut it, and succumbed. Two companies arose to take Sega's place, and now we have a three-way console war. The reason people get onto "teams" is that the most successful console is usually the one supported the longest, and gets the most software, and therefore the people who rooted for that company get the most bang for their buck. But this doesn't mean competion is going to end, it just continues onto the next generation, sometimes with the original companies, and sometimes with new upstarts (Go Phantom! ;)

Re:who cares?

[despisethesun]

We saw this demonstrated years ago in the Sega/Nintendo wars. No matter what Sega tried, they just couldn't cut it, and succumbed.

This isn't entirely true. In fact, in the U.S. and Europe at least, Sega dominated most of the 16-bit generation, the SNES only beat the Genesis in sales after the 32/64-bit generation started. Even that was mostly because Sega pretty much pulled the plug on the Genesis to concentrate on the Saturn, while Nintendo kept supporting the SNES because it was entering the new generation late with the N64. The company that really defeated Sega was Sony. The Saturn couldn't compete with the PSX and they ducked out of the race early. Then with the Dreamcast there was the sentiment that Sega wouldn't stick around and support the console combined with anticipation of the PS2. The GC was nowhere to be seen when Sega bowed out of the hardware market, and likely wouldn't have been a huge factor in it anyway.

Re:who cares?

[TrekCycling]

You're wrong, actually. But cuss and I guess that makes your point stronger. Good show.

Re:who cares?

[MagusSlurpy]

Or just ignore an argument because I don't follow your rules of propriety. You must have been on the debate team.

Re:who cares?

[TrekCycling]

No. I just missed everything after you started cussing because you seemed angry, thus your post didn't seem worth reading. That's what cussing gets you sometimes. Sorry.

Re:who cares?

[MagusSlurpy]

And sometimes you miss valuable insight and information because you're bigoted against people who don't censor their thoughts. I guess it just happens.

Dewey Defeats Truman

[Daetrin]

I can't read the article since i'm at work, but is the blurb correct in that they're just basing this prediction off of the sales numbers for the last two years? Certainly sales numbers are important, but they're certainly not the _only_ factor. I would be very surprised if sales numbers for consoles haven't ever experienced unexpected dips or rises based on the particular games released for them or because of other unpredictable factors.

That said i wouldn't be suprised either if the general prediction turns out to be true given the number of brain dead americans who will buy a console just because it has the games where you get to go around shooting cops, proving that it is "cool" and not "kiddie." This will of course be followed by multidunious boasts about how Nintendo is the teh lozer, even if the sales figures for the DS are still higher on a worldwide basis.

Re:Dewey Defeats Truman

[Anonymous Coward]

U.S. sales of Sony PSP will dwarf those of Nintendo DS over the next five years, according to a report released today.

Image SIG has compared year-by-year sales and estimates for the first five years of each machine's life, using sell-in and factory shipments. It points out that in its first year both PSP and DS managed around 13 million units each, with DS slightly ahead.

Year two cumulative stats give PSP 25 million over DS' 22 million. In Year Three the difference rises to ten million (38m to 28m). In Year Four, PSP's lead has stretched to 15 million and to 20 million by Year Five.

Software unit sales will increase cumulatively from Year One's 70 million units to 122 million in Year 2, and over 200 million in Year Three.

SIG stated, "Sony will likely expand the addressable market for portable gaming devices with the PSP. As the class of gamers seeking console-like gaming grows, the PSP will be the only serious alternative to Nintendo portables. In time the variety and depth of games on the PSP could attract a larger demographic than even Nintendo portables."

It added, "Yet we must keep in mind that the PSP is Sony's first attempt and the launch has not been without problems. Hardware pricing is probably stifling PSP adoption, and ported game selection is limited."

SIG also points out that software revenue mix in calendar year 2005 will be Nintendo 58% / third parties 42% for DS, but Sony 24% / third parties 76% for PSP.

They really aren't comparable

[J. T. MacLeod]

The PSP and DS are similar in that they are handheld gaming systems, but the similarities end there.

No one argued that the Game Gear competed with the Super Nintendo. It's slowly becoming clear that the PSP and DS are just as different.

A DS is the next-generation of Game Boy.
A PSP is a console system and media center squeezed down into a handheld package.

There is some overlap, of course, but at least there's not as much confusion any more. They have different markets. The PSP's market is going to be slower-growing because of the price--not only the price of console and games, but also of memory sticks, which is where the system's real flexibility comes into play. I think it's curious to see how sales compare, but I don't think it's as relevant as people imagine.

Nintendo has publicly said as much with the Revolution. They're letting Sony and Microsoft have the market they love, but Nintendo's after a different one.

Re:They really aren't comparable

[pnice]

I don't know if you meant to type this:

No one argued that the Game Gear competed with the Super Nintendo. It's slowly becoming clear that the PSP and DS are just as different.

But wasn't the Nintendo Gameboy competing with the Sega Game Gear and the Turbo Express and Atari Lynx? The Gameboy was a no-color handheld video game system. The Lynx was color. The Sega Game Gear and the Turbo Express were color and they both had TV adapters so you could not only play games but you could watch TV on them as well. Sega even released a portable Genesis (The Nomad) and it still failed. Somehow the grayish dull pixels of the Gameboy has outlasted any of those other systems. They were all different but they were still competing with each other.

Re:They really aren't comparable

[thomasscovell]

"A DS is the next-generation of Game Boy." Actually Nintendo made it clear when they released the DS that it wasn't the new GameBoy. It is a different system with a different market, there will be another GameBoy system at some point, possibly more [gag] PSP like in terms of focus on pixel pushing.

Re:They really aren't comparable

[geminidomino]

Game Gear was a handheld. SNES was a console. The two weren't competing. GPs point (that I don't necessarily agree with) appears to be that the DS and PSP are two different classes of device, and shouldn't be considered to be competing either.

Re:They really aren't comparable

[pnice]

Gotcha. I thought he was pointing out the ability to watch movies on the PSP and not the DS. I was slow yesterday.

Got both DS is my choice

[monopole]

Got both a PSP and a DS. I use the DS (and my GBA micro) a lot more, even for watching movies. The four factors involved are battery life, memory stick cost, size and system fragility. The DS has an incredible battery life which is crucial when traveling and the micro still beats the PSP. The DS video solution the Play Yan uses cheap SD flash which is also supported on many of my other gadgets, on the other hand the MS Pro Duo flash is twice as expensive for the same memory size. The GBA micro which shares the movie player with the DS is small enough to fit on my belt and be used anywhere. Finally the PSP is big, fragile and more likely to be stolen, making a poor choice for travel.

Not to diss the great screen on the PSP, but the gamboy screen is quite sufficent.

Re:Got both DS is my choice

[CronoCloud]

I don't know why the PSP has such a reputation for fragility. It only looks fragile, it truly isn't.

Re:Got both DS is my choice

[mausmalone]

I don't know why the PSP has such a reputation for fragility. It only looks fragile, it truly isn't.

It's not that it's fragile in general. It's that it's fragile compared to the DS, which has the edge here due to the clamshell design protecting the screen and the solid state media instead of spinning media. Would you drop your PSP onto a hardwood floor from a height of 5 feet? How confident would you feel that it'll work properly after the fall? I would feel comfortable dropping my DS (which I've done by mistake several times), and would expect it to play properly afterward.

In fact, it can be said that just about anything seems fragile compared to a Nintendo product. There's a video somewhere out there of some guys who try to kill a gamecube by dragging it behind their car on a dirt road. After the first attempt, it still works fine. So they drive on a worse road, and faster... and the thing still works fine. Eventually they give up with conventional methods and just smash it with a sledgehammer and cook it in a barbeque pit.

Analyst: DS will beat PSP

[Jerf]

Noted Slashdot analyst "Jerf" has analyzed the portable market, and has determined that the DS will beat the PSP in the US. Jerf points out that in its first year both PSP and DS managed around 13 million units each, with DS slightly ahead. Year two cumulative stats give DS 25 million over the PSP's 22 million. In Year Three the difference rises to ten million (38m to 28m). In Year Four, the DS' lead has stretched to 15 million and to 20 million by Year Five.

When asked for evidence for his claims, he replied: "What, we need evidence and reasons? What, are you a Communist or something?"

(Actually, the report may or may not be useful. Who can tell, since we don't seem to have a link to it. But the article is useless trash, and if I had to guess, this study does sound suspiciously paid-for, if you get my drift.)

I'm pretty sure DS is still winning

[77Punker]

Look no further than the scientific double-blind gamefaqs survey! It shows not only that DS is strongly favored over PSP, it shows that PSP is the least favored system. Also, it is my duty as a Nintendo fanboy to point out Gamecube's staggering lead over Xbox.

Re:I'm pretty sure DS is still winning

[despisethesun]

I like my GC as much as the next guy, but the poor showing for the XBox likely has to do with the 360 being on the same poll. For XBox owners who upgraded, it makes sense that the 360 would pass the original XBox in their affections since it's just like the original, but (supposedly) better.

Three reasons why I think they are insane

[kingsmedley]

Funny thing is, a year ago I might have agreed with these guys. I held out high hopes for the DS prior to launch, but in reality I knew Sony had the cooler hardware and impressive marketing clout with the dominance of the PS2. I honestly expected the DS to end up in 2nd place, bulldozed by the Sony juggernaut.

But the sales performance of the DS this past year has taken many of us - even Nintenedo fans - by surprise. Clearly the DS has the superior momentum, and Sony has shockingly few gems on the horizon. Considering this is the ONLY DATA available, then where the hell does this prediction come from? I can see only three possibilities:

1. These guys at SIG have a vested in terest in Sony's short term success, and therefore put forth a scenario designed to help Sony's stock price.
   
   
2. These guys at SIG are preoccuipied with the hardware appeal of the PSP design, and have completely overlooked software sales on the assumption that superior hardware means superior sales.
   
   
3. These guys at SIG don't consider the "casual gamer" appeal of many DS games as representing a significant market.
   

I hope these guys weren't counting on UMD movie sales to spur the PSP onward, because I suspect the new video iPod will take much of the wind out of those sails. (Sales?)

Theory on PSP vs DS games...

[BW_Nuprin]

My belief is that the PSP is simply too close to a current-gen console to be an effective handheld game device... the problem is that because it has such horsepower, people expect a console-level experience on it, but because its a portable device development has a portable budget. How can you put a console-style game on a portable system? Ports and sports! On the other hand, the DS is cheaper still to develop for, and you simply can't shoehorn the latest PS2 game onto it, so some actual creativity goes into the development. It certainly doesn't hurt that the DS's form factor and touch screen also encourage creativity. Anyway, its just my theory.

My money is on DS software outselling the PSP, and the PSP floating for a few years on UMDs, primarily competing with the iPod. Maybe the PSP will outsell the DS in terms of hardware, but not games... at least not without a major climate shift.

Re:Theory on PSP vs DS games...

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think it's development cost that's the problem here - games for the PSP sell at prices comparable to PS2 games, and considering the small size of the screen and the disk you should be creating less artwork for a PSP game. Presuming that consumers really are willing to pay those prices for this technically superior system, budgeting shouldn't be a problem. I think there's another issue here:

The average console game does not port well to the handheld experience. The average console session time is at least an hour, while a handheld gamer may need to stop play at any moment. Console games can have many complicated displays and gauges and text output onscreen because they're being played on large screens. On a small screen, no matter how high the resolution, there is only so much screen real estate available. Much of the graphical power will be used merely as set dressing. Console games can require very fine motor controls, since both the player and the screen are stationary; not so with a handheld. Combine these design problems with the fact that Sony is still very permissive of long load times, and you have a whole load of reasons that playing a game designed for the PSP "mini-console" would lose its wow factor pretty fast.

Of course, I think this is all moot since the real reason developers aren't putting their creative eggs in the PSP basket is its poor market share in the first place. This is compounded by the fact that the DS actually gives the developers some new hardware to draw inspiration from, whereas the PSP uses the same button formula we've had for a decade. If Sony could invest in a couple of good exclusivity deals for the PSP, they'd be doing themselves a favor.

---
Posting Anonymous in Games, oh yeah!

Re:Theory on PSP vs DS games...

[CronoCloud]

The average console game does not port well to the handheld experience. The average console session time is at least an hour, while a handheld gamer may need to stop play at any moment.

Good point. That may be coloring people's expectations, but the PSP does have it's "sleep mode' which one can use at any time. No need to save the game, just flick the switch.

Though I must admit, I sometimes forget about it and take the time to save my game and turn it off. Maybe SCEA needs to hype up "sleep mode" in ads or something.

Critique of the sony PSP.

[Anonymous Coward]

The Sony PSP's games are long and tend to translate poorly for portable systems. They're usually story-centric and have a tendency to be broken up in the middle of the game.
Also, Sony doesn't know what direction to take it in. That's why it has features that are tangential to game-playing - playing videos, music, viewing images. Who cares? Those aren't games and using them shows that Sony isn't sure of its future. They want an alternate angle from which to market their device.
As has been noted, Sony's loading times are sad. Who wants load times on a portable device? You want to get up and go, and PLAY. Not wait, and wait, and wait.
The only thing the PSP has going for it is its beatiful design.

Then there's the DS. You look at its plethora of awesome games, mostly ports from older genres and titles and you realize that you're getting something you'll know will be good. You've played these games before - now they're portable. It's tremendous. And you get a touchscreen, thus enhancing your gameplay experience much as playing games on Palm-like devices has done in the past. The library of popular palm-style games is tremendous, and they're all GREAT! Just like the DS.

Also you have a microphone. What couldn't you do with that? You can blow puffs of air to inflate balloons and yell to get dates (Mario Kart and some Sega dating sim respectively). Who wouldn't feel a swell of pride blowing into an electronic device in a public setting or yelling at the top of their lungs? Clearly Nintendo knows what they're doing.

Re:Critique of the sony PSP.

[CronoCloud]

You've played these games before - now they're portable. It's tremendous.

Thats what I think about the PSP:

Untold Legends....it's like BGDA or the Champions of Norrath games on the PS2, only portable. :-)

hehe.

[Amiasian]

i agree. go nintendo.

in short

[kevin.fowler]

Let us not forget something major here, Nintendo also continues to manufacture games for GBA (which is still backwards compatible with games produced over a decade and a half ago), and has recently revamped the SP with a killer baclkight, and also pushed out the slick little GB Micro.

Add those figures to the DS sales and it's easy to see how Game Boy has been the most successful gaming platform. Now excuse me, Mr. Game Boy Color and I have a date in the bathroom with Pokemon Red.

Re:in short

[CronoCloud]

Now excuse me, Mr. Game Boy Color and I have a date in the bathroom with Pokemon Red.

It's Pokemon Yellow and Zelda Links Awakening for me, but I don't currently play them on a Game Boy (though I did), but on my PSP with Rin. Even old GB/GBC games look awesome on that screen. Much better on my eyes.

The main reason I never purchased a GBA is the screen size, it's actually smaller than a GBC's and by the time they finally added a backlight (should have been there from day one) they messed with the buttons and D-pad with the SP. I wanted a good joypad/buttons like on the GBC. And the GBA needs Y and X buttons like on the SNES pad. You can't do proper SNES ports without them. It's a sad thing when the PSP feels more like a portable SNES than the GBA does.

Re:in short

[kevin.fowler]

I lied, I was playing Pokemon Yellow. It just sounded a bit gross with the whole bathroom thing. Link's Awakening is another great time waster/solid videogame. Happen to know if any of the GBA Zelda games are worth playing?

I might spring for buying my roommate's old PDA to use to play emulators (there are some sweet connectable controller modules for PDAs), but a PSP, however like a portable Dreamcast it may be... is out of my price range.

When did the PSP outsell the DS in the states?

[kyle (in stereo)]

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chroni cle/archive/2005/12/26/BUGLNGCO6C1.DTL&type=tech So far, Nintendo DS sales are better than Sony's PSP. The NPD Group, which tracks retail sales in the United States, estimates that Nintendo has sold 2.37 million units of its portable game player, to 2.16 million unit sales for Sony's PSP. Dated Monday, December 26, 2005. Did the PSP sell 200,000 units in five days? No. This article is mistaken.

Re:When did the PSP outsell the DS in the states?

[falcon5768]

No its likely that the writer used Sonys notorious "shipped" figures rather than true sales. The truth is other than 2 months the DS has outsold the PSP in the States every single month since. Sony on the other hand always releases data that they shipped more units than Nintendo, but nothing is kept track of as to if the units actually made it into peoples hands.

Eventually ts going to bite back on Sony as if my local NY-NJ area stores are any indication, they are currently overstocked and unable to sell the units while they cant keep the DS in the store.

Re:When did the PSP outsell the DS in the states?

[kyle (in stereo)]

Yeah, you get that alot with Sony. Situation in Japan is much easier to read. The PSP has outsold the DS in January, so far. But why? Well, thats because the DS was completely outsold and in very limited quantities. Hahah.

With the price of some PSP games...

[unclethursday]

I don't own any handheld. Just saying this now. I do have a GameBoy Player for my GC, but I have a total of 2 games for it.

But, I checked out some of the PSP titles last night. And I was appalled to see that some of the prices for them were $50.

$50 for a HANDHELD game? No thank you. $40 is a bit much for a hand held game, IMHO. $25-$30 I can deal with, maybe an occasional $35 here and there-- were I to be a handheld game player. But the PSP games all started around $40 with few exceptions (some older games were down to $30), and some of the newest games were $50.

Sorry, if the pricing on PSP games stays like this, I can't see the PSP gaining much of a lead, if any, over the coming years. Handheld games are generally shorter than their console counterparts/cousins. They generally as not as fully featured as their console cousins. But I'd be God damned if I was going to spend as much on a hand held game as I am spending for a full console game if I owned a handheld system.

The system is $250. Start adding in games at $50 a pop, and I'd rather just wait for all the next gen consoles to come out and get the game there. The handheld gaming market is driven from pick up and play games, and some long RPGs, that you don't spend a lot of money on but get tons of enjoyment out of. $50 for handheld games, no matter what publisher put them out, is simply too much money.

With all the added risk you take with your handheld systems (dropping/breaking, losing, etc.) and the games, the price of the PSP and its games is just too high to keep it viable in the handheld market for too long. Consoles generally sit in one place, and don't move, so they don't have the same risk factors associated with them. And we've been paying $50 for those games for years. Until the PSP, no one was paying $50 for a handheld game... and, frankly, it's a gamble I think Sony and the publishers attempting to milk the handheld market buyers are going to lose.

Re:With the price of some PSP games...

[catprog]

Where I come from the budget game fir the DS are about $50 (are you taking in the Us. This is in AUS)

Re:With the price of some PSP games...

[despisethesun]

Yes, he would be talking U.S. In Canada most DS games are between $40-50Cdn. whereas PSP games are $60 and up. This has pretty much made sure that when I get a PSP, I'll primarily be getting my games through the used market. I'm waiting till the hardware gets a price cut first, though.

Re:With the price of some PSP games...

[CronoCloud]

Sorry, if the pricing on PSP games stays like this, I can't see the PSP gaining much of a lead, if any, over the coming years. Handheld games are generally shorter than their console counterparts/cousins. They generally as not as fully featured as their console cousins. But I'd be God damned if I was going to spend as much on a hand held game as I am spending for a full console game if I owned a handheld system.

Ahh the "this is what we've always paid for handheld games, they aint worth as much as console games" argument. But with the PSP is different, in the old days handheld games had to be cut down, reduced graphics, fewer levels, whatever. That's not the case with the PSP, similar features, similar games, so Sony is expecting people to understand that and pay similar prices and people, like you (and like me too) who are used to the way things used to be to balk at paying $40 for a handheld game.

That may be parlly why the DS/GBA are still doing well, people simply have lowered expections of handhelds and haven't become accustomed to any different.

IN FIVE YEARS

[Anonymous Coward]

In five years (or earlier):

GBA 2 will be out, and potentially more powerful than the PSP.

Consoles will be next-gen - right now, PSP isn't too far off PS2 in graphics power. But next to an xbox 2 (or PS 3) it doesn't seem like a "portable home console".

High Definition TV. HDTVs will be common, UMDs look poor in comparison.

Mobile phone gaming might actually be good, you never know. Same goes for PDA gaming.

Other successful players might be in the handheld market, MS being the obvious one. People try to break into handhelds (N-gage, GP2X, Zodiac, Gizmondo, Bandai) all the time, one might succeed. iGamePod?

Portable media players will no longer be a big deal, a 1 gig MP3 player for $15 makes PSP as an MP3 player look a bit silly. Most iPods will have video, so UMDs won't be that impressive.

Basically, with all these variables it's hard to say what the market will be like in 5 years. And most of the points go against the PSP, so predicting market domination is rather brave. I'm sure it could happen, given price cuts and a big improvement to the library (more diversity, get an exclusive Final Fantasy on there, get Tekken/Soul Calibur, decent FPSes like Timesplitters or Killzone, get some budget games). Either that or give away UMDs with every DVD.

Re:IN FIVE YEARS

[masamax]

HDTV actually has no real bearing on the handheld market, unless we start seeing 4" screens with MUCH higher resolutions then they currently have, and besides, even if they did, what is the point? At that point, the pixels would be too small to even notice the difference.

Movies vs. Games

[Captain_Thunder]

I think at this point it's unfair to compare the PSP and DS at all, because the DS is a games system and the PSP is a movies system. Think about it: many major movies now appear on the PSP at their time of release, and most of its games are just PS1 (or 2, if you count Liberty City Stories) rehashes. The DS, on the other hand, focuses solely on gaming, and IMHO, it does that well.

DS Seems Popular to Me

[Godai]

This is purely anecdotal, so take it with a grain of salt.

I got a DS for Christmas from my brother, mainly because neither of us could come up with something better (we always consult each other on giving each other gifts). In the end we figured my GBA SP had taken a bit of a beating of the last couple of years and at the very least a DS would simply be a fresh platform to play my existing GBA games.

Much to our surprise, the DS blew us both away. Enough that he & I went out looking for ANOTHER DS, for his Christmas present. This being Boxing Day (yeah, it means I didn't have something for on Christmas day, so sue me ;) we had to fight our way through throngs of bargain hunters at several EBs until we finally found one that still had the Mariokart DS bundle (saving me about CDN$25).

While waiting in a fairly long line, I found myself carefully inspecting what everyone in line was buying. I expected to find a fairly healthy cross-section, but to my surprise found that most people were buying DS games & accessories. This surprised me because I'd been under the impression from the displays in Best Buys & such that the DS was being barely noticed market-wise next to the splasy PSP. Now there were PSP customers in the crowd, but they were very clearly a minority. Mostly 20-somethings whereas the DS buyers tended to be what I assume were parents (when they weren't clearly WITH their children in line).

Hell, I almost freaked when I watched the two people directly in front of me in line ask for the Mariokart bundle -- I was sure I was going to step up and find out they'd sold the last one to the person in front of me. When I'd left that morning to find one I'd expected the only trouble would be finding a store that still had the bundle, not that there'd be competition from other potential customers!

Of course, a day or so later I read that 'DS outselling PSP 3:1' article and that seemed to fill in the rest of the blanks.

Re:DS Seems Popular to Me

[MagusSlurpy]

As far as X-mas gifts go, I received a DS for X-mas, my roommate received one, his GF received one (not from each other), and my manager received his second (he lost his first). No one I know received a PSP, or if they did, they were not impressed enough to tell anyone ;). Viva Miyamoto!

Fargo, of GameSpy fame...

[nmaster64]

Fargo spoke on this in his "Thought of the Day" in GameSpy Daily today, and I have to agree with him 100% on this:

According to this news report, the Susquehanna International Group (an industry analyst firm) released a study today comparing the market growth of the Sony PSP to the Nintendo DS over the next five years. The firm states that "As the class of gamers seeking console-like gaming grows, the PSP will be the only serious alternative to Nintendo portables," and predicts that the PSP will sell 20 million more units than the DS over the next five years.

Whenever I hear reports like this, I always turn on my crap detector and compare them to my experience "out in the field." Over the holidays the combined DS/GBA aisle in stores was always packed. I gave my wife a DS for Christmas and happily pointed to those two shelves, sprawling with titles, and told her "you can play anything here." She wasn't the only one bouncing with newfound euphoria over Nintendo's handheld -- we were jostled shoulder to shoulder with other new Nintendo handheld owners. As for the quality of the games, Mario Kart DS was nearly GameSpy's Game of the Year, and it won our best mutliplayer game award. The PSP didn't even get a game into our top ten.

So, when I see analysts banking on big growth for the PSP, I have to think: it can only happen with a big shift in the PSP product line. I don't buy into the assumption that everyone wants 'console-like gaming' on a handheld -- frequently gamers are looking for a quicker, simpler, more casual experience in a handheld, something that they can pick up and play for short periods. Nintendo may not have the sexy hardware or the proprietary movie playback, but when it comes to handhelds, they've got a lock on the fun. We'll see if the next couple of years changes that.

-Fargo

Only gains?

[MeanderingMind]

It strikes me that this is a pretty pathetic forecast for the PSP, if it takes them the course of five years to gain ground on the DS.

Re:Only gains?

[despisethesun]

Why? It took even longer for the SNES to overtake the Genesis in North America. Hell, it took Sega dropping out of the 16-bit market for the next generation to make it happen.

Re:Only gains?

[MeanderingMind]

You missed my joke and the point. The prediction was to "gain ground", not overtake. For overtaking, 5 years isn't bad (although not exactly wonderful either). But to spend 5 years just to "gain ground" is pretty bad, especially considering how little of a gap there is between the PSP and DS in North America.

DS Sales...

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know about PSP, but I always see games for it at Wal-Mart and Blockbuster, but I can't find ANY DS games... they're always sold out! (Note: I live in the far far north of canada, so our supplies are more limited, but still, it's telling)

Neither is PSP exclusive

[tepples]

although, the PSP has lumines which had kept my attention far more than the DS. I also had an NES emulator on there with more ROMs than I could ever play.

Lumines and PSP emulation are available on GBA (and by extension Nintendo DS) as well; see Luminesweeper and PocketNES.

Lumines is the only shining star

And it's shinin', shinin', shinin', shinin', shinin', shinin', shinin', shinin', shinin', shinin', shinin', shinin', better stop before the lameness filter kicks in...

Re:Neither is PSP exclusive

[MyDixieWrecked]

Lumines and PSP emulation are available on GBA (and by extension Nintendo DS) as well; see Luminesweeper and PocketNES.

liminesweeper is kinda crappy. at least when someone pointed it out to me when I first got into lumines. The thing I like about lumines is not only the intense gameplay, but the pretty visuals that accompany it and the catchy music and sound effects. it kinda gives the whole game this feel that's extremely palatable. The game is very well produced and was assembled extremely well.

I had an NES emulator on my GBASP on one of those flash carts, but, at the time, I dropped close to 200$ for a 128MB cart, and the software wasn't available for mac or linux, so I had to use my roommate's machine. the software was buggy, and I'm not gonna get into it, but I eventually sold that cart for another one which I could use on my mac, but it was such a hassle to use it.

the PSP's memory stick, at least, I can mount on my machine and access the files, and it's just got a better system for handling homebrew. it feels more natural.

using homebrew applications on the DS feels like a cheesey hack workaround (although the 1.5 firmware dupe swaploid hack feels kinda the same).

Do you even own a PSP?

[forgotten_my_nick]

>Basically Sony thinks that people want a (3rd rate) MP3 player
> and a (2nd rate) Portable DVD player

It plays MP3. granted its no IPOD but 2nd Rate DVD player? UMD is DVD quality with digital audio. Batteries will generally last (on mine) 4-6 hours. Even so a 1-2GB memory card will get you 1-2 movies or a few TV shows to watch.

Sorry but the DS wins on being cheap and games machine only. It is not an entertainment system.

Re:Do you even own a PSP?

[CronoCloud]

granted its no IPOD

Name the only other portable device besides the iPod that can play your iTunes ripped CD's.....

The PSP, too bad there's no FairPlay support.

Re:Do you even own a PSP?

[Anonymous Coward]

DVD quality? Hardly. It's not that difficult to get a very crisp image on a screen that size. If you were to output your UMD to a standard TV, it would hardly be up to DVD quality. Audio, possibly, but video, no. This doesn't mean that it's a bad DVD player, per se. I'd consder it a rather nice one if it took anything other than some "Sony format". Past experience says that those don't tend to fare all that well. But it does mean that your claim is false, and the PSP barely misses the mark of being an attractive DVD player. Barely, but it does.

Re:Do you even own a PSP?

[LordVader717]

Gon Into Settings>Advanced and Import. You can select your codec there. Plus, it shouldn't be too long before we see AAC-players.

Re:Do you even own a PSP?

[CronoCloud]

Oh I know iTunes will rip in different formats. What I guess I didn't make clear is that the PSP plays AAC with 2.0+ firmware and that it's the only other portable device besides the iPod that does so.

Re:Do you even own a PSP?

[forgotten_my_nick]

thanks guys for the update. :D

Re:Do you even own a PSP?

[kyojin the clown]

Nokia phones play AAC. [p]I believe they are quite portable, these mobile phones.

This article

[rabbot]

This article should be modded flamebait. What is happening to /. these days? It's turning into digg.

PSP To Increase U.S. Lead Over DS

Well sorry, but the PSP has to HAVE a lead before it can INCREASE it further. Try looking at the actual number of units sold, not shipped. I wonder how much SIG was paid to conduct the analysis?

It's things like this that keep the illusion going that Nintendo is dieing and the PSP is useful for more than playing over priced UMDs and emulators.

Welcome to Digg everybody.

Re:This article

[mausmalone]

I'm sure there would be less confusion if they used numbers of PSPs sold as oppsoed to shipped, but the fact of the matter is that Sony doesn't report units sold, and Nintendo doesn't report units shipped to the press. Of course, this benefits Sony, so they won't stop, and Nintendo doesn't want to artificially inflate its sales since they're a profit-driven company, so it's unlikely to change in the near future.

If you want a true look at how these two systems will fare in the future, take a look at game sales for each. You'll find Nintendo in the top 10 or top 20 consistently with DS games. It's hard to say the same for the PSP. If the game sales are lackluster, Sony will lose 3rd party support. If Sony loses 3rd party support, the library (and therefore sales of the system) will suffer.

On which PSP firmware?

[tepples]

liminesweeper is kinda crappy. at least when someone pointed it out to me when I first got into lumines. The thing I like about lumines is not only the intense gameplay, but the pretty visuals that accompany it and the catchy music and sound effects.

If your version of Luminesweeper doesn't have music, then either you are using an old version from before July 18 (when music was added to the version for flash carts and emulators) or you are using the version for GBA Movie Player (which currently lacks music).

the PSP's memory stick, at least, I can mount on my machine and access the files, and it's just got a better system for handling homebrew. it feels more natural.

But how do you suggest buying a PSP that can run homebrew guaranteed? Can one run most homebrew programs on a PSP with 2.01 or later firmware? Or can one still buy a PSP Value Pak with older firmware new in box? Or do you suggest relying on eBay for all PSP hardware purchases?

using homebrew applications on the DS feels like a cheesey hack workaround (although the 1.5 firmware dupe swaploid hack feels kinda the same).

You can softmod the DS using a GBA flash cart (yours or someone else's), and then all you need to run homebrew is a GBA flash cart or even a GBA Movie Player (cheap CF adapter).

Re:On which PSP firmware?

[MyDixieWrecked]

if your version of Luminesweeper doesn't have music...

I don't recall when it was, exactly. my friend had it on his DS and showed me when I was deepest in the soup of my Lumines addiction.

But how do you suggest buying a PSP that can run homebrew guaranteed? Can one run most homebrew programs on a PSP with 2.01 or later firmware? Or can one still buy a PSP Value Pak with older firmware new in box? Or do you suggest relying on eBay for all PSP hardware purchases?

you can roll back the firmware using a buffer overflow exploit (using a malformed picture) if I understand it correctly. my PSP bricked when I tried updating from 1.52 to 2.01 (they really are serious about not letting the device powerdown when updating).

I'm actually toying with the idea of picking up one of those GPX2 devices. They run linux and they're pretty powerful.

Re:On which PSP firmware?

[tepples]

I don't recall when it was, exactly. my friend had [Luminesweeper] on his DS and showed me when I was deepest in the soup of my Lumines addiction.

Give it another shot and be pleased. I'd like to know how accurate the speeds are later in the game, as I still haven't got 999K yet.

you can roll back the firmware using a buffer overflow exploit (using a malformed picture) if I understand it correctly.

If you're referring to the rollback discovered in late September 2005, that one works only from firmware version 2.0 to 1.50, not on anything 2.01 or later. Has this changed since then? And because new UMD games require a firmware update before they can play, should I buy two PSPs if I want to use both homebrew and UMD games?

Re:On which PSP firmware?

[MyDixieWrecked]

Give it another shot and be pleased.

I'll have to call my friend and get my flashcart back to try.\

If you're referring to the rollback discovered in late September 2005 ... And because new UMD games require a firmware update before they can play, should I buy two PSPs if I want to use both homebrew and UMD games?

I believe so. I have it downloaded but never got a chance to try it. the whole reason I decided to update my firmware (and brick my psp) was to play Tokobot. I'd be able to give you a progress report if my psp actually worked, now... =(

Emulate the GBA on your PC

[tepples]

(Context: a GBA-based clone of an alleged PSP killer app)

I'll have to call my friend and get my flashcart back to try.

Not necessarily. If your PC is at least as fast as mine (0.86 GHz PIII), you can use VisualBoyAdvance to run Luminesweeper and most other GBA programs.

Re:Emulate the GBA on your PC

[MyDixieWrecked]

Not necessarily. If your PC is at least as fast as mine (0.86 GHz PIII)

my pc is a 600mhz P3... running linux... =P

although, you're right, I could run an emulator. I haven't tried any GBA emulators on that box, but it does SNES/MAME/Genesis fine. I also just copied my GBA roms to that machine, so I could try it out.