The whole Xbox division of MS loses money - $391m last financial year, on sales of $3.2b.
They're not selling a hook, they're burning money in an attempt to beat everyone else out of the market and pwnz0r your home entertainment forever...
It's the cost of establishing a market. The problem for them is, as I said before, these are game machines and gamers are not loyal. Once a new, better, shinier game box comes out these will be retired. Sure a few will become illicit Linux boxen and some will be used in the manner Microsoft intends, but they're hardly pwn1ng the american home. Seems like they still don't get it.
Good thing Windows, Office and Server divisions make a pile of cash to underwrite these follies.
OK they lose money selling the hook. If buyers purchase enough games or buy into XBox Live, for a nominal monthly fee, they
get it all back and then some. The business model pioneered by Atari, Sega, Nintendo, Sony and before that drug
dealers all the way back to the days of the opium trade.
What's actually funny (ironic, maybe ha-ha, too) is these sales, assuming the sales actually go through, will
enable people to profit at Microsoft's expense. When was the last time you did that?
Oh, and beyond the cost of parts and assembly, don't forget packaging (a good box with packing material is much
more than you think, especially if boxes are damaged in transit and need to be replaced, small wonder HP ships expensive
Athlon64 laptops in plain brown wrappers) plus the cost of transporation and logistics, and adverising, and development costs. The loss is a bit more
than that $126. Why does the fascination with loss-per-unit only focus on parts?
I tend to think Sony still has significant advantage over Microsoft, thanks to economies of scale, they make many other consumer electronics items and can combine channels, where Microsoft will be selling this one thing.
let me know when they have a network version of m.u.l.e. or mail order monsters
And people beating each other in the aisles and spending 10x what it's worth.. it's sickening. This is a game, not food! A shortage shouldn't create this kind of hysteria. Yet another reason not to do Christmas.
Wars were probably started over lesser things... but not much lesser.
Oh, do Christmas, but don't do it with toys. Give the kids a gift in kind or take a trip somewhere they want to go.
I see no point in deluging kids with expensive presents. One thing they want and everything else what they need. Funny, I seem to have learned something from my parents after all.
Oh, yeah. Remember to keep your TV unplugged during October to January.
Over 3000 now. The highest priced, that has actually had bids on, it is $1555. Absolutely amazing. I'm sure there will be many more by the end of the day.
Of course the real trick is getting paid. As a seller of other items on eBay I've had the occasional twit bid and never pay up.
Probably the best way to capitalize on this craze is to require immediate payment, or it stays in circulation.
Well, if you have a TV in your bedroom, you can get rid of the DVD player [i]and[/i] you can stream music and... ahem... videos (MPEG) from your Windows PC. Even VOB files play, just rename them to.MPEG.
I've had a portable DVD player, which will play about a dozen formats and adapts to PAL and NTSC very nicely, for about 2 years. I got it for travel but it works fine for anywhere I want to watch or listen. I rarely watch anything videos on the big TV or PC anymore. I dread the day it stops working. Only real downside is I can't us it as a portable video monitor.
Didn't Halo 2 just come out less than a year ago? Wasn't it a massive hit? Wasn't the X-Box already several years old at that point?
Didn't the Playstation get released in 1994? Wasn't it still selling well enough in 2000 for Sony to find it worthwhile to repackage it as the "PSOne" and keep selling it? Weren't games still being made for it right up until the release of the PS2 (also in 2000)?
Didn't several people predict the death of PC gaming?
Now all manner of must-have games like WoW are making PC gaming flourish. This more than the consoles attractiveness has extended their cycle. This is also much the reason Microsoft is selling a PC labeled XBox 360.
"Alright, buster, how did you get around it?"
"Look, Sarge! Tape! He's got a roll of tape!"
"You rebel scum!" I bet I can overcome their DRM by not wanting anything from that list of albums, too.
Your hype of limited supply and such has prompted each release location to be complete with flashing sirens and people in police uni... wait, real cops arresting some of your customers while giving lectures to others.
Geez, what was the movie where the parents were knocking each other around for an action figure...
Jingle All the Way, I think. It's probably, if you look past the humor, an actual documentary.
Don't ya think Microsoft has more than enough money to make enough units to go around for the inital launch? Or is it some kind of stunt to make people want it more?
This is the history of Christmas Toys. Cabbage patch kids, various DVDs, etc. A shortage creates a frenzy. Where people wouldn't normally have given the object a second look, they now feel they must have one. Great stuff if you're the seller.
Expect the shortage to continue, yet the bottleneck to clear just in time for several more million sales, but not so there's the least perception of excess inventory, which will mean it's suddenly passe'.
they're using the gamer market to propagate. They can gradually add other functionality to increase it's market.
Don't be surprised when it eventually evolves into what amounts to the Microsoft version of the Mac.
Or evolve into your media box you hook cable/satellite feed into and they dictate how you receive, what you receive and track it all.
I'd honestly be worried, but like I said these things will only be hot for a couple years then it'll be the next big thing.
Another problem with them will be life-span. If you're using it for CD/DVD entertainment then how long can you expect to get parts when the drive stops tracking?
Just go down to the shop with the flickering neon VCR Repair sign and ask, I'm sure in a few years they'll have a pile of these which customers abandoned which they scavenge parts from.
I'm not sure where you are going with this but I still use my original X-Box...
Expecting any NEW games to be release for it?
Once the new game pipe runs dry you've got a relic. Just like my Sega-whatchamacallit with all those great games I can still play, if I could ever pull myself away from stuff that isn't so tacky.
So, question (seriously): Why do these things still exist?
You've got a CPU, moderate-sized memory, HD, DVD-ROM, and input-device. Basically, it's a computer, with the user-mangleable parts missing.
They continue to exist because they form an extremely hurdle-free platform to develop games for. Since they are proprietary (i.e. to keep weasels like me from buying them to put Linux on as a cheep piece of hardware) they lock in a % of game sales, which is where the real money comes from. What Microsoft wants is for you to buy into their world in some way, like every household in the world will have one of their boxes which suddenly lets them dictate standards for media delivery.
All Sony and Nintendo want is to make money. Microsoft wants to control your options, like perhaps a benevolent dictator. Benevolent until you decide you can do without them.
you will see that this machine really is well done and offers lots of useful features. It is very well thought out and if you opt for the harddrive you get even more options.
Yeah. There've been a pile of really well done consoles. I know there were, I just can't remember their names anymore because after a couple years something new and more exciting came along.
Those who must have the XBox 360 are gamers. Nobody is going to stand in line, freezing their butt off for a Media Center when they can get one just fine in a month or two, when the phoney bottleneck is cleared.
Tell me how loyal gamers are to hardware.
In 2 years they'll be multi core, Wi Fi - take it with you and doing stuff that makes this look like an ugly doorstop.
That would be true except that you seem to have ignored the fact that new games will be constantly released for the system for at least the next 4-5 years.
Son. (or Daughter) Lemme tell ya, I've been around this market for over 25 years. Nothing, NOTHING lasts more than 2 years. The Atari VCS was probably the closest anything came to lasting and what a sorry thing that was compared to those consoles which came along and buried it.
It's like denying Moore's Law. In 2 years it'll be something else.
Just before a chair is hurled through your window with a Cease and Desist letter attached to it.
do it and we'll bury you, love steve
So is there a sight for posting pools on the interent as to when the first article will appear on/. announcing a successful 1) Linux install 2) Mod chip ?
This is where it all falls apart. Killer this, great that, awesome the other thing. Really, the only hype that matters
is this:
1. It's another game console.
2. It's going to have some great games.
3. The manufacturer is irrelevent, because no matter what else the box promises, once you're tired of playing the games
it'll end up in the back of the closet, covered with hardened Cheeto grease, dust, a few dents from being kicked when things
didn't go quite to plan in a game and utterly forgotten until Garage Sale Season.
Microsoft touts this as a brilliant center of home media and that's probably true for anyone who doesn't already
have a home entertainment center of some sort. But what the distillate is you're not going to buy it to watch
DVDs on, you're going to play games with it. You're not going to surf the internet, you're going to play games with it.
It won't transform you into some actuallized renaissance man (or woman) through shear wonderfulness of the Total
Microsoft Experience, you will play games with it.
Microsoft is under some crazy dellusion that this is some hook into the household which will bring more fish in. Really, it'll
just bring gamers who are only loyal until the next gotta-have game pops up on the next revolutionary console.
If you've guessed by now that I'm not getting one, you would be right. My Athlon64 PC with top of the line video and
sound cards plays this game
just fine. I see no reason to switch.
"worldwide launch of the console could mean shortages in the run-up to Christmas. The console is due to hit Europe on 2 December and Japan on 10 December and some retailers are also warning about limited supplies."
Argh, the hype! Must resist... must resist!
Oh. That wasn't so difficult.
I wonder how many of these will actually go straight from the store to eBay because money is more attractive than having one.
It must suck to live in a rural area and have to get your fix this way.
new for xbox 360: uncle steve's chair toss and monkey dance combo! limit numbers, buy today!
There's also Stone Trek which takes swipes at classic Star Trek episodes, Star Wars and (my personal favorite) a killer (ha) adaptation of Star Trekkin'
Flash Required, Sorry.
Oh, and support these guys, OK, like buy a mug or shirt or something.
I wonder if this is a capital crime in Texas?? They're real good at killin' folks legally down there. Yeeee-haaaw!!
Musta forgot to haul out the checkbook at the last ruling party whip-around. You expect something like this in California, but Texas?!?! Puts me in mind of a different Texas...
three researchers at Brown University who have created the first directly pumped silicon laser by drilling billions of holes in a small bit of silicon using a nanoscale template."
Slashdot Mirror
They're not selling a hook, they're burning money in an attempt to beat everyone else out of the market and pwnz0r your home entertainment forever...
It's the cost of establishing a market. The problem for them is, as I said before, these are game machines and gamers are not loyal. Once a new, better, shinier game box comes out these will be retired. Sure a few will become illicit Linux boxen and some will be used in the manner Microsoft intends, but they're hardly pwn1ng the american home. Seems like they still don't get it.
Good thing Windows, Office and Server divisions make a pile of cash to underwrite these follies.
OK they lose money selling the hook. If buyers purchase enough games or buy into XBox Live, for a nominal monthly fee, they get it all back and then some. The business model pioneered by Atari, Sega, Nintendo, Sony and before that drug dealers all the way back to the days of the opium trade.
What's actually funny (ironic, maybe ha-ha, too) is these sales, assuming the sales actually go through, will enable people to profit at Microsoft's expense. When was the last time you did that?
Oh, and beyond the cost of parts and assembly, don't forget packaging (a good box with packing material is much more than you think, especially if boxes are damaged in transit and need to be replaced, small wonder HP ships expensive Athlon64 laptops in plain brown wrappers) plus the cost of transporation and logistics, and adverising, and development costs. The loss is a bit more than that $126. Why does the fascination with loss-per-unit only focus on parts?
I tend to think Sony still has significant advantage over Microsoft, thanks to economies of scale, they make many other consumer electronics items and can combine channels, where Microsoft will be selling this one thing.
let me know when they have a network version of m.u.l.e. or mail order monsters
Wars were probably started over lesser things... but not much lesser.
Oh, do Christmas, but don't do it with toys. Give the kids a gift in kind or take a trip somewhere they want to go.
I see no point in deluging kids with expensive presents. One thing they want and everything else what they need. Funny, I seem to have learned something from my parents after all.
Oh, yeah. Remember to keep your TV unplugged during October to January.
Of course the real trick is getting paid. As a seller of other items on eBay I've had the occasional twit bid and never pay up.
Probably the best way to capitalize on this craze is to require immediate payment, or it stays in circulation.
I've had a portable DVD player, which will play about a dozen formats and adapts to PAL and NTSC very nicely, for about 2 years. I got it for travel but it works fine for anywhere I want to watch or listen. I rarely watch anything videos on the big TV or PC anymore. I dread the day it stops working. Only real downside is I can't us it as a portable video monitor.
It's only going because Sony has been held up on development of the PS3. Though they did release the PSP in the interim, in case you forgot.
Didn't several people predict the death of PC gaming?
Now all manner of must-have games like WoW are making PC gaming flourish. This more than the consoles attractiveness has extended their cycle. This is also much the reason Microsoft is selling a PC labeled XBox 360.
Actually, yeah I do. It was a killer system, though.
Your point is taken, but the PC fills many more needs than an XBOX or 360 will, thanks to me being in total control of upgrade and expansion.
"Alright, buster, how did you get around it?" "Look, Sarge! Tape! He's got a roll of tape!"
"You rebel scum!"
I bet I can overcome their DRM by not wanting anything from that list of albums, too.
Geez, what was the movie where the parents were knocking each other around for an action figure...
Jingle All the Way, I think. It's probably, if you look past the humor, an actual documentary.
This is the history of Christmas Toys. Cabbage patch kids, various DVDs, etc. A shortage creates a frenzy. Where people wouldn't normally have given the object a second look, they now feel they must have one. Great stuff if you're the seller.
Expect the shortage to continue, yet the bottleneck to clear just in time for several more million sales, but not so there's the least perception of excess inventory, which will mean it's suddenly passe'.
Or evolve into your media box you hook cable/satellite feed into and they dictate how you receive, what you receive and track it all.
I'd honestly be worried, but like I said these things will only be hot for a couple years then it'll be the next big thing.
Another problem with them will be life-span. If you're using it for CD/DVD entertainment then how long can you expect to get parts when the drive stops tracking?
Just go down to the shop with the flickering neon VCR Repair sign and ask, I'm sure in a few years they'll have a pile of these which customers abandoned which they scavenge parts from.
Expecting any NEW games to be release for it?
Once the new game pipe runs dry you've got a relic. Just like my Sega-whatchamacallit with all those great games I can still play, if I could ever pull myself away from stuff that isn't so tacky.
They continue to exist because they form an extremely hurdle-free platform to develop games for. Since they are proprietary (i.e. to keep weasels like me from buying them to put Linux on as a cheep piece of hardware) they lock in a % of game sales, which is where the real money comes from. What Microsoft wants is for you to buy into their world in some way, like every household in the world will have one of their boxes which suddenly lets them dictate standards for media delivery.
All Sony and Nintendo want is to make money. Microsoft wants to control your options, like perhaps a benevolent dictator. Benevolent until you decide you can do without them.
Yeah. There've been a pile of really well done consoles. I know there were, I just can't remember their names anymore because after a couple years something new and more exciting came along.
Those who must have the XBox 360 are gamers. Nobody is going to stand in line, freezing their butt off for a Media Center when they can get one just fine in a month or two, when the phoney bottleneck is cleared.
Tell me how loyal gamers are to hardware.
In 2 years they'll be multi core, Wi Fi - take it with you and doing stuff that makes this look like an ugly doorstop.
Son. (or Daughter) Lemme tell ya, I've been around this market for over 25 years. Nothing, NOTHING lasts more than 2 years. The Atari VCS was probably the closest anything came to lasting and what a sorry thing that was compared to those consoles which came along and buried it.
It's like denying Moore's Law. In 2 years it'll be something else.
Just before a chair is hurled through your window with a Cease and Desist letter attached to it.
do it and we'll bury you, love steve
So is there a sight for posting pools on the interent as to when the first article will appear on /. announcing a successful 1) Linux install 2) Mod chip ?
The difference is, Dreamcasts are still fairly interesting. Seems Sega gave up on it too soon.
Microsoft is in for the long haul
This is where it all falls apart. Killer this, great that, awesome the other thing. Really, the only hype that matters is this:
Microsoft touts this as a brilliant center of home media and that's probably true for anyone who doesn't already have a home entertainment center of some sort. But what the distillate is you're not going to buy it to watch DVDs on, you're going to play games with it. You're not going to surf the internet, you're going to play games with it. It won't transform you into some actuallized renaissance man (or woman) through shear wonderfulness of the Total Microsoft Experience, you will play games with it.Microsoft is under some crazy dellusion that this is some hook into the household which will bring more fish in. Really, it'll just bring gamers who are only loyal until the next gotta-have game pops up on the next revolutionary console.
If you've guessed by now that I'm not getting one, you would be right. My Athlon64 PC with top of the line video and sound cards plays this game just fine. I see no reason to switch.
"worldwide launch of the console could mean shortages in the run-up to Christmas. The console is due to hit Europe on 2 December and Japan on 10 December and some retailers are also warning about limited supplies."
Argh, the hype! Must resist... must resist!
Oh. That wasn't so difficult.
I wonder how many of these will actually go straight from the store to eBay because money is more attractive than having one.
It must suck to live in a rural area and have to get your fix this way.
new for xbox 360: uncle steve's chair toss and monkey dance combo! limit numbers, buy today!
Flash Required, Sorry.
Oh, and support these guys, OK, like buy a mug or shirt or something.
Will this be fifteen minutes of fame and at the end you can't remember a thing?
By curious coincidence, the state of Texas must have a budget shortfall.
like much of the rest of the states, come to think of it.
Musta forgot to haul out the checkbook at the last ruling party whip-around. You expect something like this in California, but Texas?!?! Puts me in mind of a different Texas...
oh, i love to dance a little side-step...
Finally, a laser to fit Dwarf Sharks!
next up, an army of Barbie fem-bots!
The future: Longhorn will suck far more memory than XP.
They must be in cahoots with the memory makers, alert Rambus!