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Texas Sues Sony BMG over Rootkit
Mr. Sketch writes "According to Yahoo!, Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott 'filed a civil lawsuit on Monday against Sony BMG Music Entertainment for including "spyware" software on its media player designed to thwart music copying. [...] Texas is seeking civil penalties of $100,000 per violation of the state's Consumer Protection Against Computer Spyware Act, which was enacted earlier this year. "Sony has engaged in a technological version of cloak and dagger deceit against consumers by hiding secret files on their computers," Abbott said in a statement.'"
Lets also do it the "Texan way" with some Death Penaltys
I wonder if this is a capital crime in Texas?? They're real good at killin' folks legally down there. Yeeee-haaaw!!
Nothing interesting to say...MUST...NOT...REPLY...ohtheheckwithit.
Don't mess with Texas?
...for the lawyers.
The consumers ( you remember, the people these laws are supposed to protect ), on the otherhand, will likely see loose change for their troubles.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
According to Yahoo!, Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott 'filed a civil lawsuit on Monday against Sony BMG Music Entertainment for including "spyware" software on its media player designed to thwart music copying. [...] Texas is seeking civil penalties of $2 * 2 * 2 * 2 * 2 * 5 * 5 * 5 * 5 * 5 per violation of the state's Consumer Protection Against Computer Spyware Act, which was enacted earlier this year. "Sony has engaged in a technological version of cloak and dagger deceit against consumers by hiding secret files on their computers," Abbott said in a statement.
Way to go Texas, for $100.000 Sony will pay and do-it again ...
cloak-and-dagger (klkn-dgr) adj. Marked by melodramatic intrigue and often by espionage.
from the link:
Can anyone verify this on their own disks?
I'll just use my special getting high powers one more time...
Guess we really neednt worry about the president getting on this band wagon since he cant even load songs on his ipod.
EFF has launched a class-action suit against Sony.
Man is a slave because freedom is difficult, whereas slavery is easy.
All your base are belong to the Lone Star State
Unfortunately, his opponent in the next election can back the Brinks truck up to Sony HQ at his convenience.
Here's a link to the official Texas AG's press release.
= 1266
http://www.oag.state.tx.us/oagNews/release.php?id
They even have an online complaint form. Be the first on your block to get in on the lawsuit!
Heck is a place for people that don't believe in gosh.
IANAL but it seems to me that criminal rather than Civil penalties is the way to go here.
Of course, the correct answer is both.
Call me naive, but I'm just not seeing action on the criminal side of things. Whatever happened to "equal protection under the law" principal where I would face jail time if I did this, even if I did it through my own 1-man consulting corporation?
Its not users who are broken, it's systems not taking account their likely behaviour and fixing it technically.
RIAA: "Sony BMG did nothing wrong. We love Sony BMG. They clean our pool."
Texas Lawyers: "Pardner, yer full o' bull puckey."
Sony BMG: "Can't you sue any better than that?"
Consumers: Yeah, you can all go screw yourselves. Give us some cash.
I am scientifically inaccurate.
It's a good feeling when it doesn't even take a month for a major state's state government to sue over a consumer issue that has so many people I know riled up. No, it's not just us getting ourselves worked up, it really was that slimy and abusive a thing for Sony to have done.
Last week there were complaints here and elsewhere that class-action and criminal prosecutions were slow in coming, with only California and I think New York having responded promptly. This is great news* that this is starting to be prosecuted more widely (as it should be), and encouragement to everyone lobbying elsewhere for lawsuits in their own states/countries.
[*] Technically it's not "great news", it's simply the just application of the law. But when a mega-corporation such as Sony is the spyware distributer, it doesn't take a cynic to fear that justice come second to capital, as was the case for a certain monopolist...
The PDF is available here. The press release is here.
:) )
(cough
If you have been damaged in any way, shape or form, it's time to call their bluff!
Read again. Its $100K per machine they screwed up. This is major bucks.
Well today I felt a bit better about the situation. First my wife asked me about it which surprised me. She hasn't shown much interest in stuff like this in the past. And then a little later on when I went over to Stars and Stripes to read todays news they had a story about the rootkit and that they are pulling them out of the BX/PX's.
The more word of this gets out the more DRM will come to light. Eventually most people will know how bad DRM is and maybe, just maybe Sony and the rest will start to feel some pressure to stop trying to push it on us.
"Armed forces abroad are of little value unless there is prudent counsel at home" - Cicero
With all this noise being made about Sony's "DRM software", hopefully the general acceptance of DRM will be set back.
When you mess with Texas! :P
World vs. Sony, guess who wins?
$100,000 per rootkit'd CD times 20,000,000 million CDs = $2,000,000,000,000 (2 trillion dollars)
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
It's the statutory penalty for the violations: $100K per infraction. The Texas AG was just on TV (CNBC) and suggested that the fines came out to hundreds of millions of dollars.
If you want your life to be different, live it differently.
Please mod the parent up, thanks.
There's a hidden treasure in Python 3.x: __prepare__()
IANAL, but I'm pretty sure that means $100,000 for every infected computer.
Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
we have 47 states to go!
*grumblecakes*
It's true no man is an island, but if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, they make a good raft.
One can only hope that the analysts are right, and that this has set CD copy protection back 10 years :)
Physicist, consultant, science communicator
In Canada, the levy allows you to make copy of music CDs, even your friends CDs for you own personnal use without restriction. The 3 limit per CD is a clear restriction that goes against what Canadians pay for. I feel another law suit comming.
Only two posts for the stereotypes to start flying, even in spite of the positive news. Seriously, do you have absolutely no shame?
By curious coincidence, the state of Texas must have a budget shortfall.
like much of the rest of the states, come to think of it.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
So basically, the rootkit would install itself on your PC even if you clicked NO on the popup that appears after inserting the disk? Wow... Now re-read this (different article, posted on Slashdot earlier):
"Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?" the head of Sony BMG's global digital business, Thomas Hesse, told National Public Radio.
I don't know... So they are counting on tricking gullible PC users into installing something which will ultimately harm their PC, which is heinous in itself, but somewhat legally "murky" enough for them to get away with it. But when your answer to the EULA actually has no effect whatsoever on whether the r00tkit is installed or not, that is beyond words. It shows how much these corporations disrespect their customers. We are sheep. With cash they gave us for working for them... and they want it back.
Assuming a computer counts as tangible, movable property, and I do believe the rootkit at least counts as "criminal mischief", and the Texas AG has a legal duty to protect people's computers (or people ask him to), the use of lethal force against Sony BMG would be authorized. 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY. A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if, under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force or deadly force to protect his own land or property and: (1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property; or (2) the actor reasonably believes that: (A) the third person has requested his protection of the land or property; (B) he has a legal duty to protect the third person's land or property; or (C) the third person whose land or property he uses force or deadly force to protect is the actor's spouse, parent, or child, resides with the actor, or is under the actor's care
Nothing to see here but Steers & Queers Rootkits
Don't anthropomorphize computers: they hate that.
So the spyware has to be pretty deadly!
Unfortunately, that only works if killing them will prevent your property from getting damaged/stolen. Inapplicable in this case.
Have any companies disallowed playing CD's at work computers because of potential security risks? Can someone be fired for unknowing installing rootkits and can fired employees sue the music distributors for costing them their jobs?
From http://www.oag.state.tx.us/
Yeah, this guy's really a shark. Stupid frickin lawyers always screwing everything up enforcing laws. God dammit. Imagine how great the world would be without lawyers making sure everyone follows the rules. </sarcasm>
It breaks my pluginses, my precious!
I heard Sony management got a great deal on this book: Rootkits : Subverting the Windows Kernel.
That recommendation is just... the glazing on the pig
Belief is the currency of delusion.
"Hi, I'm your Attorney General. I'm running for reelection. This term, in addition to executing a boatload (literally) of people, I brought the state two hundred million dollars by suing an evil music giant who tried to hack your computer. This same computer giant also gave my opponent a lot of money..."
See how good the opponent looks then.
I hope the Texas Attorney General extracts hundreds of millions from Sony. And then that the other states' attorneys general smell blood and jump on the bandwagon, just like the tobacco settlement. Imagine Sony forced to fund a foundation that makes commercials warning youth of the dangers of DRM :).
I too have felt the cold finger of injustice.
Oh-ho sony, texas TORCHED your ass, man! Texas TORCHED your ass!
I have this really funny quote that I like to put here. Unfortunately, there's this really annoying thing called a char
If some college student had pulled this stunt they would be sitting in jail as we speak. Why is Sony getting away with this crap? I also can't believe that they stole code from LAME and violated the LGPL without a second thought. These people are criminals in every sense equally as bad as those they are trying to keep from copying their CDs.
I will never, never ever buy another product that says SONY on it again.
Here's a torrent of the news conference video.
That the AG, like basically all state employees, is paid salary. So it doesn't matter how many of what kind of cases he wins, he gets the same amount of money, it's not a contenginecy basis like private lawyers. So ALL the money goes to the state, not just a certian percentage. You don't get rich working as a lawyer for the state.
I don't know how this all works, but will this result in any money going to the people who bought the cds? Or will the lawyer and the texas authorities pocket it all?
No, this sentence refers to SunnComm MediaMax, not First4Internet XCP. MediaMax doesn't use a rootkit, but installs even if you reject the EULA, phones home when you play a CD, does not include a functioning uninstaller--but if you jump through a bunch of hoops, SunnComm will give you an ActiveX uninstaller that opens a huge security hole on your computer, kind of like XCP's.
Sony recalled XCP CDs but didn't say a word about MediaMax. The EFF is pressuring them to recall those CDs as well, which have been on the market for two years and number at least ten times as many as XCP.
It it were criminal penalties, they would get off on any "reasonable" doubt. With civil penalties, the judgement is even, both parties are assumed to stand on an equal basis. At $100k per infection, which in Texas alone would amount to something in the $50+ billion, I guess that's punishment enough. Better than getting disembowelment, or whatever is the Texas punishment for those criminal acts, with the possibility of them getting a "not guilty" veredict.
As a corporation, Sony's employees would be very difficult to charge criminally with the actions of the corporation. IANAL but as I understand it, the whole purpose of incorporating a business is to limit legal liability to the people who run the company. That way if the company gets sued, the principal officers don't end up being bankrupted, or for that matter sentenced to jail time for the actions of the corporation. Of course, some would argue that this is what makes corporations so evil.
Hey instead of giving the Texas AG shit for their stance on capital punishment (which I disagree with btw), maybe we should be giving them a little credit for standing up for the people against Big Sony.
swanker than you
OK I typed way too fast and my calculator converted these fines to exponential notation, so i got some numbers slightly (ha!) wrong.
n ess/14rights.html>
e &symb=SNE
24 Million times 1000000 is 2.4 Trillion not 2 Trillion.
But that is irrelevant because I did more/better research and the lower bound is 568,000 CDs (based on Dan Kaminsky's network DNS cache analysis) http://www.doxpara.com/?q=sony
A good conservitive higher bound is 2.1 Million sold (based on Sony's statements)http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/14/busi
The revised maximum fine numbers would then be $3,362,560,000 to $14,208,000,000.
So its just $3 to $14 Trillion in potential fines.
Sony has total corporate value (Market Cap) of $36,358,000,000. http://money.cnn.com/quote/quote.html?shownav=tru
My guess is that having a fine of (approx) 40% of your net worth hanging over your head is not gonna be good. Of course this is just Texas we're talking about here, 49 more states to go (and many many countries).
Its not users who are broken, it's systems not taking account their likely behaviour and fixing it technically.
Presumably they can only sue for CDs sold in Texas.
Texas has roughly 9% of the population X 2.1M CDs = 200K polluted CDs sold in TX.
That's still 20 Billion (2x10^10) bucks (200K * $100K/offense).
I'm sure the other state attornies general are furiously scouring their statutes for similar provisions to get in on the gravy train.
Come on - everyone stop posting for a bit...
Whoa there cowboy. This is Texas we're talkin' about. Stand down with all that high-falutin' legal talk there. Sony obviously just needs some killin', let it be.
Returned Peace Corps IT Volunteer
Thomas Hesse has his head up his ass. Let's give him some H151 and tell him that he shouldn't care about it because he doesn't know what it is.
(H151 is one of the lethal strains of avian influenza)
Reinvent the wheel only at either a lower cost, greater effectiveness, or your own personal enrichment and satisfaction.
A la how the SSSCA changed into the CBDTPA, the TCPA changed into the TCG, and Palladium morphed into NGCSB, DRM will be needing a new name now that everyone knows what it is. Please post your entries in this thread.
I too have felt the cold finger of injustice.
- Using random or deceptive filenames to make it difficult for the consumer to find and uninstall the program, in violation of CPACSA 48.053(5).
- Inducing the consumer to install software by falsely claiming that it is necessary to play the media, in violation of CPACSA 48.055(1).
Seems pretty weak, but I imagine they'll tack on additional charges once they've had the chance to do some discovery.How the *fuck* did they ever conclude that installing a rootkit on their "enhanced" CDs was a financially sound legal tactic that came with no fear of being sued by Sony shareholders for causing loss of profit?
Just exactly how many people (in Texas at least) bought this CD, because there's no doubt that the Texas AG will get the #s during the discovery process.
Considering that sony was selling 50 CDs with XCP on them, I seriously doubt only 100 copies of that spyware managed to get installed.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
First off, I'm a little unsure of axactly what constitutes a violation of the spyware law. Is it just the actual infection of a machine? What about other laws that were likely broken? What about the copy of the rootkit contained on the CD? It seems like it should be a violation of SOMETHING for each copy of the cd that Sony knowingly produced with this rootkit on it. Each production of a cd is meant with sale in mind, and each sale is pretty much an attempt to root an innocent persons machine. Does this not violate some anti hacking statute or something? And what about the copywrited code that was contained in the rootkit. Surely, Sony, or that hack of a company that created the DRM software, should be held liable for that. If Sony can sue people for obscene amounts for each 'illegal' copy of music on their hardrive, shouldn't each illegal copy of this GPL'd code be considered a violation of copyright? So I'm really happy that Texas is started to push legal action against Sony, but I'm also would like everyone to slow down a bit, and be cautious. I just don't want all the eggs to be in one basket. Sony needs to get called on ALL violations of law. I would hate to see action pushed forward too soon, before every violation is accounted for.
"To lead the people, you must walk behind them"
"Be sure to drink your Ovaltine"? WTF?
Writhe your naked ass to the mindless groove.
I run Linux, this doesnt affect me in any way. What else is going on thats interesting in tech besides this?
Let's stab him in some of the lesser-known organs.
Since he doesn't know what they do, he shouldn't really care about it, right?
What about the company that assisted SONY by developing the root kit.
After all when moms can get sued when their kids download songs, why not the company which developed the software.
Its not like they did not know what they created was illegal.
If i start a company that only sells spywares and viruses to other people, am i not liable too?
So then if i rent my gun knowing fully well it will be used to destroy other people's property, am i safe from prosecution?
Going after SONY alone is not enough.
An example must be set so that everyone knows what will happen when they develop such blatantly illegal software.
They should not hide behind thier EULAs with SONY which may state that they are not responsible for whatever shit happens using the software.
They developed a illegal product. Fine them too.
The corps always talk about how they're gonna take their ball and go home if the laws don't blow their way, but it's pure bullshit. If you had a law passed requiring you to give away free copies to all your buddies, they'd STILL sell CDs. Why? Because they are dumb shits who can't adapt to changing market conditions. They will sell CDs until they go bankrupt, and the sooner, the better. I'm just about sick of this pimped up disco R&B they call pop music nowadays.
$100k per machine. I doubt it somehow. I'm not familiar with the laws on this issue, so maybe i'm wrong here, but in my experience even corporate manslaughter is rarely punished seriously by the courts. I can't imagine they'll impose billions in fines over a rootkit.
I expect a token slap on the wrist fine for sony and some bad publicity. Corporate execs will change their behaviour when they're held personally accountable and the company is fined a meaningful percentage of profits.
I tried attaching the permanent marker to the CD as you suggest, but I was unable to get it into my slot-loading CD drive. I did manage to get it into a tray-loader, but there was a problem. Apparently autorun still executes the CD if you attach a marker to it. I'm sticking with tape.
For Balancing the US deficit.
(20,851,820 * 10%) * $100,000 = $208,518,200,000
Darn not quite the whole deficit. Even if it had, it wouldn't go to the Federal government.
I don't preview or spellcheck.
I had sent a friend information about this Sony thing last week and it got not a lot of attention. However same friend was trying to de-lous another persons PC yesterday and called me for support (Note: I'm not particularly qualified for Windows support at this point, but I can do Google searches and say things like "hang in there" from time to time). I think by that time I was called many of the virus and spyware elements had been cleaned by conventional means, but there seemed to be some persistent problems. Just in case, I asked whether they had played any of those Sony BMG music discs in the machine. Apparently I was on a speakerphone setup, and I heard several denials of the form "We never use our machine for such things" while my friend asked me what I was talking about.
After refreshing his memory, and in turn having the family involved talk among themselves for a while, it turned out that some Sony BMG discs HAD been played in that machine, and some of the remaining questionable files had Sony all over them even though the family didn't own a Sony camera, Sony music player or any other Sony device that they could think of. Finally someone remembered that the little girl in the family HAD played, or ripped, or SOMETHING some music CDs in the machine and off they rushed to find them. In the mean time I was looking for the list of Sony BMG discs affected, originally numbered 20 and widely circulated at that count, but subsequently updated to 50, and listed on a Sony website. I found the list of 50 at about the same time that they found their played/ripped/inserted/whatever CDs and sure enough, several of them had the Sony BMG label on them. Now the catch was that (a) none of the CDs they had found were on the list and (b) none of the CDs they had found had the warning that they contained copyright protection software, and my understanding was that the affected discs did contain such a warning.
Well, by getting rid of the Sony BMG stuff they seemed to be back to a clean machine, and they swore to never insert a music CD into their machine again or to buy a CD from Sony. So, congratulations should go out to Sony BMG and First4Internet for accomplishing their objectives. Now to round out the picture:
(1) I suspect that Sony BMG, Sony alone, and BMG alone have in the past used other protection schemes and while they haven't been vocal about it, other companies are doing the same experimentation. All of these programs have their own ways and means of hiding themselves and controlling what YOU do with YOUR PC. But NONE of them have exhaustively looked into the legal, much less technical ramifications of what they do. They think that by merely relying on third party companies like First4Internet they can claim ignorance of the consequences.
(2) Rumor has it that by the time you are asked for your permission to install software when you insert these disks SOME software has already been installed.
(3) Sony/BMG isn't the only company doing this, they are just the only company that has been caught.
(4) These discs have been out for a year, and some people say two years, or maybe more.
(5) There is no quick and easy way to uninstall these programs, either from Sony BMG or the s
I asked for it when I woke up. I asked for it later in the day... and I got it!
I'm thrilled. I just hope the people get some cash, and not just lawyers.
The proper punishment for Sony out of this must be sufficient that that Sony, and every other record company will absolutely never any use any kind of DRM that changes even one bit on your computer again. Anything less is not enough.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
With all the focus on the Sony rootkit installed by audio CDs, no one has mentioned whether the Sony Connect software installs any questionable components. I ask because the terms of the Sony Connect music service are particularly strict and onerous and given what little they think of consumers, I wouldn't put it past them to have done "something" with Connect as well.
Perhaps the cloaking on the Connect software is better than for the audio CDs and no one has found it yet...
Inquiring minds.
They are lawyers, not techies. They probably had no clue what a rootkit was.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
you can never kill over property and you must back down before using deadly force (unless you're in florida, which just passed the worst law in the history of juriprudence ever). and it's a heat of the moment thing, not something you can later do.
MEF
at least we can kill -9 them.
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0085334/
http://www.movietome.com/movietome/servlet/MovieM
Just thought I'd point that out, not that it has anything to do with anything...
Denham's Dentrifice, Denham's Dentrifice, Denham's Dandy Dental Dentrifice, Denham's Dentrifice Dentrifice Dentrifice.
A corporation actually managed to piss off Texas enough to take legal action? I mean, come on. It's Texas.
I'm just surprised one of the little puppy or some liberal states didn't act first.
(If they did, ignore the previous line plzkthx.
Wouldn't worry too much about that-in a lot of cases, different people will be calling them to account for different things. The AG of Texas is calling them to account for violations of Texas criminal law. That's his job, he's a prosecutor. Anyone personally impacted by this (or any business whose security was compromised, for instance) can also sue Sony individually, or if someone launches it, in a class-action suit. The Attorneys General of other states also might pick up on this action and decide they want a piece as well-and remember, attorneys general are elected officials! If you were personally infected by the rootkit, write to your state AG and file a formal complaint. If you weren't, I'd still advise sending them a general letter that you think this is a filthy practice and you expect to see them help send a very, very clear message to Sony that it is unacceptable.
They may have (actually likely have) also broken federal laws, but that's up to the AG of the United States to prosecute, and the federal government tends to be relatively pro-corporate. Might not be much that happens there.
As for Sony's copyright infringement (oh, the irony!) that would be up to the copyright holders of the GPL code in question to sue over. I sure hope they do, I hope Sony winds up bankrupt over this garbage. With many states having statutory damages (yep, same type as in copyright law, that the labels just love to scare consumers with) for hacking/computer trespass, the numbers just might get big enough to do it.
To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
Sony changed their name to "Sorry", and were promptly sued by Parker Brothers.
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
RIAA really gone to far, today they support ROOTKITS, tomorrow they'll hire mercenaries to kill those dare to oppose them. RIAA is evolving, maybe Bin Laden, maybe Hitler.
Hong Kong - International Joke Center (after 1997-06-30)
Actually, people are reporting that once the XCP EULA opens and they click "no," the CD ejects, but once it's re-inserted, the EULA doesn't ever appear again. How could that happen if, as they claim, nothing was installed on the computer?
...corporations became a sort of protection mechanism for bad behavior. Maybe it's always been this way.
You can't send a corporate division to jail; you have to send people. Who do you send? I'm sure there are a lot of people who "handled" this rookit within Sony. The easiest and quickest solution is to just penalize the corporation itself.
Protection through diluted responsibility.
People will pass up steak once a week, for crap every day.
Sounds like a John Lennon song...
except for the killin' part.
Somehow, I don't think that the attorney general and his staff lawyers are entitled to a commission based on how much money they get in court. Do you really think that the Texas AG is doing this so he and his minions can get a cut of the dough? In case you hadn't heard, Texas is a state, not a law firm.
Now I'm conflicted.
Class action lawsuits are often used by lawyers to collect huge chunks of settlement money. Now, I like the EFF, I've donated, and I like what they do, but I've got this ingrained bias against that sort of fundraising.
So, how to end this comment? Praise them for taking action against a greedy company? Or criticize them for using a strategy that's well, normally associated with asinine lawsuits?
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
I guess anyone who runs Linux/BSD/etc. would be in violation as well.
If what has been mentioned is true, that the rootkit is installed even when a user clicks "no" on the EULA, I'd expect some felony computer tresspass charges to be pressed soon.
$100,000 per violation. Does that mean that the texans who purchased one of these CDs each get $100,000 (minus lawyers fees and such)? I really don't suspect so. Who's getting this money?
http://illhostit.com/ - Webhosting
Ehh, wrong. In Louisiana you can shoot to kill anyone that is on your property without your authority. Its been like that for ages.
the security fix blog over at washingtonpost.com appears to be suggesting so...
Per incidence typically means per instance of contamination of a given machine, given the law in question that they're applying to Sony from the state. Given that any other spyware incident, they'd be applying the per machine criteria (otherwise the law is effectively without teeth...), this means that Sony is really facing quite a bit of damages after all- and it's NOT 1.6 mil.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Wouldn't that make them unqualified to legally advise on technical matters?
"remind yourself why the Statue of Liberty is in New York, again."
Because the french didn't want it. Check it out on the web. We ended up with it because the french had too much taste.
You kill someone here in Texas, we kill you back. That's our idea of justice. In this case, Sony's ill advised actions and refusal to supply a decent removal tool pretty much sealed their fate. The AG's office here in Texas is pretty agressive about all kinds of things, but Consumer's Rights is a "hot button" here.
2 cents,
Queen B
HDGary secures my bank
That this is a STATE Attorney General, suing on behalf of the citizens of his (MY) state, the State Of Texas. Considering that any statutory penalties would go into the state coffers and NOT into the AG's pockets (He's a salaried employee of the State of Texas, not your lawfirm type attorney...) your claims of 33% of this going into his pockets would be dead wrong. Your rant, nice though it was, was like a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. (With apologies to Wm. Shakespeare...)
But then, this IS Slashdot, afterall...
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
When you merely charge a corporation with a crime, you effectively kill it. Corporations live on their reputations, for getting customers to buy their products, shareholders to invest in stock (and bid up the price), partnerns to make business deals, and lenders to loan money for operations and expansion. A criminal charge basically sends the corporation's reputation to zero. Nobody will want to deal with them, and they'll go under in short order. Look what happened to Arthur Andersen, for example. In this sense, state attorneys general wield essentially a nonreviewable, completely discretionary death penalty.
If Sony went under, thousands would lose their jobs. True, some of them are responsible for this rootkit and may deserve it. But the vast majority did nothing blameworthy. Is it really just to punish the innocent?
A corporation is a legal fiction. It can't *do* anything, and thus punishing it for an illegal action is misguided. The people that should, perhaps, be indicted are the executives, managers, and programmers that produced this piece of spyware. They were the ones that allegedly committed a crime.
Slashdot's hatred of the corporation is misplaced. What everyone really despises is the fact that the law allows people to shield their personal responsibility behind a legal fiction called a corporation, and the fact that this shield enables lots of abuse by those in power. Society needs a serious debate on the costs and benefits of corporations as a way to reduce personal liability for business ventures.
When I read the submission, I knew that the first 50 posts or so would probably involve a hick accent and killing people. What I didn't expect was the fact that NOBODY would say anything about that characterization.
/. readers. Austin is part of the San Francisco - Seattle - Austin Axis of Technology. Screw the rest of you guys.
Look, Texas has hick parts. There's strong concentrations of them in East Texas around the Louisiana border and also in West Texas starting from Abilene west and north. But, it is unfair to characterize this entire state as being uncultured cowboy gun slingers, nor is it fair to generalize people who live in the more rural parts as hicks. This state is as cultured as any others, and when it comes to the South, we stand far and above. We have the largest and one of the most prestigious university systems in the world, we represent one of the most diverse cultural melting pots in the country, we have probably the best music and independent film communities outside of New York and LA, and the list goes on.
What disturbs me most is that not one person from Texas wants to dispute any of that bullshit the rest of these comments are flinging about. And it's not that there aren't Texan
As far as the AG sueing Sony, hats off to him. It's not exactly a secret that this state is pretty damn laissez-faire. That was a damn impressive move.
Also, by the way, you know that Texan accent that you have been using mentally to read this post? Stop that... now.
I just went through the local public library system. They had 13 of the CDs. And 39 current holds on them, total. I'm going to ask what the total circulation has been and then write my local Attorney General.
Um, after Thanksgiving....
What I say does not represent the views of my employers, my friends, my cats, or myself.
...that they haven't and are just biding their time? With the Sony Rootkit in place, it'd be difficult to
say with any certainty that they haven't.
Sony needs to be taken to the cleaners in damages for the irresponsibilty of doing this in the first place.
Microsoft needs to be taken to the cleaners in damages for the irresponsibility of allowing it to be doable in the first place.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
... are the other recording corporations.
Europe has traditionally taken a very strong stance against corporations who abuse their power. While I suspect you may be trying to incite Republicans with your anti-European sentiment, the fact of the matter remains that Europe has the guts to stand up to corporations who want no-good.
They're the only ones who had the balls to truly take on Microsoft, for instance. They also had the guts to say "No!" to the manufactured war in Iraq.
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
Lesser-known organs?
What, the Fleemus? I wouldn't wish a Dui-decimal Infarction of the Orbicular Fleemus on my worst enemy! (Even if they do go away from drinking a glass of warm, salty water).
Who is John Cabal?
Unfortunately, that only works if killing them will prevent your property from getting damaged/stolen. Inapplicable in this case.
Perhaps one could argue deterrment value? I'll bet a few Sony execs getting shot would shure make them think twice about doing it again!
Its been proven to be ineffectual time and time again.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Gee, I hope the lesson Sony learns is more about what not to do, instead of how not to hide it.
"he drew his sword Ringil that glittered like ice... and he wounded Morgoth with seven wounds..."
Its been proven to be ineffectual time and time again.
I shoulda put a smiley in. However, WRT the death penelty in general, I agree for different reasons.
For the insane or those who have lost hope, it fails to deter. For those who feel they have something to lose, it's not necessary, A long prison term is enough for them.
If justice has any sense of irony, then SonyBMG will be liable not simply for the provable installations on peoples computers, but all Possible installations on peoples computers.
So lets see... Little Johnny bought 1 CD, and listened to at at, say 25 friends houses, so 25 installations. Thats 25 offenses per CD. So that's actually $2,500,000 per CD sold. Now we'd see Sony cringe.
To bad justice doesn't work the same way the criminals at the RIAA do.
On the other hand, if this was medical malpracice on this scale, sony would be liable for $infinity-1 plus emotional damages.
Everyones thinking it, im just saying it out loud
Sony and the RIAA rape children and kill peoples mothers
Don't stop the damange here. Keep going: http://henage.net/dan/security/sony-rootkit.html
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=168346&cid=140 34564
That song is filth from Paul, leave poor John out of it.
Lawsuits :-)
$100,000 per violation, multiplied by how many people may have been rooted by this rootkit?
I'm hoping at least 1000, as $100,000,000 would be a noticable sum even to Sony, and certainly serve as a deterrant to them and others against future idiocy. Even if it were just Texas that put a few extra nails in Sony's coffin. Such a lawsuit will seem profitable, which will probably engage the interest of more states, which will be baaaad news for Sony. Blood in the shark filled waters.
Ah well, live by the buck...
what are evil companies to do in the future. Not sell their wares in Texas? It would become pretty identifyable which wares were infested if they excluded them all from the Texam market. This is a case where the mariad of individual state laws is going to possibly be good for everyone.
(for everybody who didn't get enough from those crappy ATRAC players and memory sticks)
Sony is dying...
So close to the PS3 release date, now we'll have to boycott it. Are we sure Microsoft had nothing to do with this? :)
Shucks!
Dolcett fan?
I personally plan to email Greg Abbot at the Office of the Attorney General in Texas and thank him for his efforts, and request he not let Sony off with a slap-on-the-hand settlement.
FYI, for those interested:
greg.abbott@oag.state.tx.us
"you can never kill over property and you must back down before using deadly force (unless you're in florida, which just passed the worst law in the history of juriprudence ever)." I am from Florida, And you are wrong about the new law. I can't kill you unless you are (in MY opinion) a direct threat to my safety.(IE: if you break down my door I don't have to hide, I can shoot you, (dead if I choose), but not just if you come in my yard (unless you are pointing a gun at me). please type the word in this image: probed ??
I thought I hade a handle on it
I think the entire community should 'congratulate' them on their actions. (Use a plausible business enquiry for the subject, so they have to open it)
http://www.first4internet.co.uk/contact.aspx
!sig
I believe it can be justified by the "get them off the streets" view.
But, as a modern society, we should be able to hold murderers and rapists away from the streets with a good jail.
The system had the verbosity of HTML combined with all the readability of compiled assembly viewed as bitmap images
Happyness is a warm gun bang bang, shoot shoot
I seriously hope that Sony don't manage to wiggle their way out of this somehow. Let the bastards crash and burn for this.
I think Sony lawyers did not know. I think that person who decided to buy this "product" did not explain to the top managers how does it work. I bet he by himself had no idea what does it do. Possible he does not know that is root kit by himself. Unfortunately that's how business works today. Your manager comes to you and tells you: listen, we decided to use this software, incorporate it. You are trying to explain that this is bad, but no-one listens. So, bottom line, I'm not surprised very much. I'm actually surprised that for so long time nothing like that happened. You see cars, airplanes, hospital equpment running on Windows. We all know that it is very unreliable, but people decide to port their products to windows. Do you think their engineers happy with that decision? No, they don't. Same thing.
The RIAA saw fit to use ridiculously high fines to scare people away from downloading music; perhaps the ridiculously high fines here will scare music publishers away from DRM completely.
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
Given the geeky target population, a little reputation damage can do a lot!
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/4918/hellokitty 6de.jpg :)
Yeah, they wanted us to have the undesireables and wretched masses. Fuck the french, we had to kick their asses too, and they are pussies, bending over for the germans like that. fuckers
That will teach Sony and the other record company a lesson. If by buying a cd, I will get a rootkit, why don't I just download it? They are screwing themselves over.
From the Register: Both antivirus firm F-Secure and security information site SysInternals.com identified the copy protection scheme as a rootkit. F-Secure and other antivirus firms - including Symantec, the owner of SecurityFocus - have release signatures for their antivirus software suites to detect the presence of the Sony BMG code.
F-secure blog tells also about this. Then they give removal instructions. What more do you need?
?SYNTAX ERROR
Also, it is neither correct nor incorrect grammar, since it has nothing with grammar to do. Grammar concerns itself with the syntactical constructs of a language, not how they are represented in writing. Quotation rules are just that: Quotation rules.
By the way, what's up with the insulting? Where you personally offended by the fact that someone cares about grammar, or is it just standard operating procedure for trolls?
Actually Texas didn't give you Bush. Connecticut gave you Bush. He lived in Texas for a bit before moving back to New England for high school, college and then graduate school. His mom is from New York and his dad is from Massachusetts. I'm half-way convinced that the accent is faked.
Texas did however produce Ann Richards, the democrat governor of Texas prior Bush and David Cobb, 2004's Green Party candidate.
Sorry -- I know the above was an attempt at humor, but I do get sick of the assumption that everyone in Texas is far-flung Bush-lovin' right wingers.
I just love seeing that "Texas Sues Sony BMG over Rootkit" headline, and don't want it to scroll off :-).
Not true.
The person who is executed is deterred.
You certainly can't make the case that a dead person will still commit crimes.
How pathetic are you that you follow me from topic to topic and waste all your mod points at once modding me down?
Some part of me is almost disappointed that a couple of adolescents with an axe to grind /haven't/ yet found way to exploit the rootkit and thus come into posession of the first corporate-created zombie botnet...
So if someone actually did this and used it to DDOS Sony, would Sony be guilty of hacking their own site?
For the insane or those who have lost hope, it fails to deter.
Indeed, quite the opposite: the death penalty can establish a cutoff line beyond which one literally has nothing left to lose.
Suppose I just murdered my wife, a cop is knocking on my door, and there's another bullet in my gun.
Do I:
(a) Give myself up?
(b) Shoot the cop and try to escape?
If I live in a state where a criminal who surrenders at the first opportunity is given a more lenient punishment, then I'm very likely to choose option (a). And if I live in a state where any killing, regardless of circumstances, is always punishable by death, then (modulo other factors like religious beliefs) I'm very likely to choose option (b).
Of course, this might be more a reason to consider the placement of the cutoff point more carefully, rather than a reason to abolish the penalty altogether...
this is bullshit, i submitted this story 3 times yesterday afternoon and it was rejected. fuck you /. editors.
Also, most violent criminals are psychopaths. The threat of death means nothing to a psychopath, so it's a terrible deterrent.
It does work well against the greedy, though.
SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
what you have to remember is the rule, since the beginning of the use of common law jurisprudence (16th Century England) is that to use deadly force, you must first back down AND you must believe the person is going to hurt you. the whole not backing down thing puts a whole new spin on it that, frankly, scares me.... especially after living with my 88 year old great aunt for the summer who used to forget i was living there sometimes. kinda makes you wonder.
MEF
The revised maximum fine numbers would then be $3,362,560,000 to $14,208,000,000. So its just $3 to $14 Trillion in potential fines.
Not to nitpick, but that's $3-14 billion, not trillion.
That would be billion, not trillion.
//not trying to be an ass...
$3,362,560,000 ($3 billion, 362 million, 560 thousand, 000.00)
Just thought I'd clear that up, since you made the mistake twice in your post.
Of course, I may be wrong...if the whole counting thing was changed recently.
BDR Gear
Outdoor gear, MREs, and more!
Thank God someone finally clarified that for the world. Anne Richards did wonders for our state. Glad George got the Hell out of Texas... we didnt want him anyway!
"Also, most violent criminals are psychopaths. The threat of death means nothing to a psychopath, so it's a terrible deterrent.
It does work well against the greedy, though."
Actually, since the guilty party is a corporation and not an individual, the penalty has to be directed at the corporation. Since corporations are by definition non-corporeal (prick me I do not bleed), and have no internal moral code also by definition, some fate as loathsome to a corporation as death is to a typical person should be executed. Perhaps sentence Sony to be run by goverment beaurucrats.
That would be just like a death sentence. A living death sentence, or undead sentence.
"We are all geniuses when we dream"
- E.M. Cioran
you can never kill over property and you must back down before using deadly force...
You obviously know nothing about Texas law. People can and do kill to protect property at night. I can think of two cases off the top of my head; in the first one thieves were stealing an expensive set of car wheels and in the second one, a thief was stealing chickens. In both cases, the thieves were shot and killed by the property owner and no charges were filed against the property owner.
There is nothing in Texas law that requires someone to retreat before using deadly force. Approximately 10 years ago, there were a rash of violent home invasions in the Dallas area. The criminals would cut the victims phone line, the surrounding neighbors phone lines, and then break down the victims door, rob the occupants, and sometimes, beat them up just for the hell of it.
The police couldn't catch these guys. The crime spree ended when they chose the wrong house to invade. They came crashing through the door and were met with a blast from the homeowner's shotgun. One criminal died, the other survived and was arrested. The homeowner was not arrested on any charge.
I hope your foot tastes good.
Sony obviously just needs some killin', let it be.
Sounds like a John Lennon song... except for the killin' part.
Sounds like a Pantera song... except for the let it be part.
Star Pirates
Paul McCartney wrote and sang "Let It Be," not John. Get your Beatle facts straight. Because of their songwriting agreement it was credited to Lennon-McCartney, but it is definitely a Paul song. John did write "Happiness is a Warm Gun." Sort of ironic.
True. Sort of.
I think his "warm gun" was really a horse rig.
Or disband them? The problem is that shareholders don't see a need to appoint a board that operates ethically. If we were to disband a corporation or two, I think that perhaps shareholders might start seeing things differently.
Of course, there is a lot of negative economic impact, but that is precisely the bargaining chip they've been using to extort for years.
Engineering and the Ultimate
Actually it is very effective as any of the living Calcutta Electricity Board members will attest.
I just hope someday the same method is applied in my own city. We may have then uninterrupted power supply.
It maybe an urban legend I hope somebody from Calcutta will elaborate.
What with all this talk about the death penalty being an effective/ineffective deterrant? It's a punishment, and a rightful one in cases of murder, rape, etc. People who commit these sort of acts should not be allowed to live. It's simply barbaric to keep these people alive, charging the victims (be they the direct victims or society as a whole) feed, shelter, and entertainment these people, and releasing them in the public at a later date to harm society once again.
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"Let It Be" was written by Paul McCartney as a tribute to his mother, whose real name was actually "Mary".
That would be cruel and unusual punishment of the worst kind, my friend. Let me suggest a kinder, gentler alternative: burn them all at the stake, extinguishing the flames with the blood of their children.
"I fear not death. I fear working for the government again"
-Me
SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
Once they are dead, there would be no repeat offences against society by Sony-BMG. Plus it would serve as a warning to other companies.
im confused, i didnt think sony had a linux port for their rootkit?
-Eric
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
What with all this talk about the death penalty being an effective/ineffective deterrant? It's a punishment
Of course it's a punishment. And what is the purpose of punishment? Punishment isn't an end in itself, it's a means to any one of things, including deterrent to others, but also any of preventing them from committing the crime again, rehabilitation and so on.
It's simply barbaric to keep these people alive, charging the victims (be they the direct victims or society as a whole) feed, shelter, and entertainment these people,
A death sentence ends up more costly than a life sentence, due to all the legal costs. (And yes you could shoot them straight away, but then the probability of shooting innocent people is vastly greater - you've done away with any chance of appeal, which people sentenced to prison are entitled to.)
and releasing them in the public at a later date to harm society once again.
Well that's an argument for "life should mean life", not the death sentence.
I do belive a boycott is in order. Enough is enough.
Uncle Mantis
"he needed killin'" is a perfectly legitimate defense of prosecution.
(yup, I'm a native Texan, so screw all y'all)
There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
" . . .that would be like suing the manufacturer of a gun used in a murder because they made guns deliberately to kill things, which is completely ridiculous."
Yes, it's ridiculous, but that doesn't stop lawyers from tryng it anyway . . . i.e. Firearms Manufacturers ARE being sued for the criminal misuse of their products.
But just to be clear, if we find a guy driving a distribution truck full of these, we can kill him with impunity, right? Because if the CD never reaches the consumer, we'll have protected that property.
"Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
One thing you are missing is that the death penalty can be a valuable bargining token for the DA. Many times a criminal can be convinced to tell the entire story, to tell where the bodies are, to implicate his associates, etc., IF the death penalty is taken off the table.
This idea just came to me, take a look at this:
Article 8. UPDATES TO THE LICENSED MATERIALS
The SONY BMG PARTIES may from time to time provide you with updates of the SOFTWARE in a manner that the SONY BMG PARTIES deem to be appropriate. All such updates shall be deemed to be part of the SOFTWARE for all purposes hereunder. In the event that you fail to install an update, the SONY BMG PARTIES reserve the right to terminate the term of this EULA, along with your rights to use the LICENSED MATERIALS, immediately, without additional notice to you. The SONY BMG PARTIES shall not be liable for any loss or damage caused by reason of your failure to install any such update or your failure to do so in the manner instructed.
It basically says: update or die (well, not quite...)
So... if you FAIL to send back the CD and uninstall the XCP software (as much of an 'update' if I ever saw one, especially if XCP is ruled illegal), are you breaking the EULA? and if so, are you going to be in legal trouble?
some fate as loathsome to a corporation as death is to a typical person should be executed. Perhaps sentence Sony to be run by goverment beaurucrats.
That would double the odds of criminal behaviour and place Sony truly above the law. I would say involuntary conversion to a non-profit organization (with revocation of charter and all golden parachutes voided if they are not in compliance with all relevant tax rules for a non-profit within a year). That should just about do it.
I can understand the US coasts being solid red, but who was the guy in Northwest Territory who just had to have Van Zant in the first week? And there was really demand for Celine Dion in upper Bolivia?
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
One thing you are missing is that the death penalty can be a valuable bargining token for the DA. Many times a criminal can be convinced to tell the entire story, to tell where the bodies are, to implicate his associates, etc., IF the death penalty is taken off the table.
Such DA bargaining has actually become a serious problem. It leads to inflation of charges and leaves the truly innocent with no way out. In theory, the DA should run the risk of a judge throwing such inappropriate charges out, but in practice, it doesn't seem to happen. In addition, give someone of questionable character the option of rat someone out or die, they will rat SOMEONE out, but that someone might or might not have anything to do with it. For that matter, faced with death, even a person of decent moral character (and innocent) will be sorely tempted to name someone.
OK, you're being naive here.
Sony is a Corporation. As a Corporation, Sony is recognized by every country in the world that matters as a legal "person." It can sue, be sued (big clue here...) and has other legal rights and responsibilities as any (very rich) person does.
Any attempt to bring criminal penalties against any single person inside of Sony would not only be highly misguided (since one would want to prove that they were knowingly acting *without* Sony Corporation's direct imperative) but ineffective as well, since putting one person in jail, unless they are on The Board, won't do much to hurt Sony financially and therefore wouldn't do much to discourage bad behavior in that particluar area in the long run.
Bringing criminal charges vs a Board Member over something like this would also be misguided, since one would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt (95% certainty, or all 12 jurors) that they willfully were out to break whatever law in question when such circumstances could be easily assigned to another department or person who wouldnt matter much ("I had no idea that such and such was illegal, or that telling so and so to protect our copyright would mean so and so would undertake illegal methods.")
If you are talking about bringing crminal charges vs. Sony Corporation itself, you face the same difficult standard of proof to apply (beyond a resonable doubt - 95%) when you are talking about what would most likely be a non-tech savvy jury (likely non tech-concerned either, unless they all happen to be EFF members). Also Sony does have the money to get the best lawyers money can buy, and would also look to get the best venue for the judge, too. Then there are the endless appeals....
A civil suit is the best way for taxpayer money to be spent to have the best chance of success. The standard of proof is lower (preponderence of evidence - 75% certainty of 'guilt', or 9 jurors), the avenues of attack vs. the Corporation are higher, since no particluar law has to be violated, and the potentail for monetary penalties are *much* higher. Since money is only thing Corporations of that size really care about in the long run (aside from customer image, which basically translates into money anyway), this is crucial.
So, as you can see, a criminal indictment (only a felony would be worthwhile) while it sounds nice, would neither be cost effective, nor a good bet, nor in this circumstance especially damadging in the long run.
I know what you saying and I don't disagree; it would be nice to see more criminal charges being filed in what should be both civil and criminal matters. But money talks and The Texas AG, who probably knows a whole lot more about the law than you or me, took a good look at this and saw a civil case as the best way to proceed.
uR iGn0ranc3, Their Power
It is physically impossible for a green party politician to do any wonders.
It simply doesn't happen.
It does work well against the greedy, though.
For the truly greedy, a life of doing laundry for $0.50 an hour may be worse than death.
"Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?" the head of Sony BMG's global digital business, Thomas Hesse, told National Public Radio.
"Most people, I think, don't even know what Influenza A (H5N1) is, so why should they care about it?"
I wonder if any computers in hospitals were hit.........
I have just read the "Plaintiff's Original Petition" for this law suite. This is a very well styled case that lays-out the technical details in a manner that a jury of peers could grasp and understand. The AG office did good research and have put the basis of the damage in terms that are easy to understand. This case could set a president that may serve the entire nation in combating this type of malicious behavior, be it from small ad-ware firms or mega global corporations. By having such a big fish to test the new law with the Texas AG has a unique opportunity to provide Texans with consumer protection, his job.
BTW - The Texas AG has a rule that they must receive a minimum of 500 complaints in order to act on consumer fraud, if that helps in the estimates of damage.
I lost my sig...
so what you're saying is that large corporations using FUD to accomplish their goals is evil, but when it's "our side" using it to accomplish their goals, it's brilliant?
yes, oversimplifying and obfuscating important information relevant to an issue in order to elicit a desired response is, IMO, using FUD.
eudas
Blessed is he who expects the worst, for he shall not be disappointed.
The truth of the matter is, that when people think of Texas, they think of cowboy hats, gunslingers, cactus plants, cows, spurs, tumbleweeds... all the Texas kitsch we export at airport gift shops.
The truth is that Texas is vastly different from how people picture it, but that perception will never change until people have been here.
eudas
Blessed is he who expects the worst, for he shall not be disappointed.
"If you kill me, two more will take my place..."
-- the film exec while falling off/out of the car in the Beyond Blunderdome (Mel Gibson episode).
------------------------------
Ray Raspberry
raspberry@b3l33t.org
Sony/BMG should be required to recall and replace the infected cds!! It stated that they stopped the distribution of the rootkit, but what about the thousands of infected cds already out there?!? I smell a new hacker tool. I am very glad to see that Texas is suing the company. I hope they get what they deserve.
"You hate French people, which you have already admitted to."
Then quote me. Cut it and paste it, and I'll come over and wash your car and paint your house.
I NEVER said I hated the French. Why do you find the need to lie?
See, this is why people like you disgust me. You try to make the point that your morality is somehow better, but then you openly LIE, and still expect to have any credibility.
You're embarassing yourself. Next time, you might want to bother actually reading what you're responding to instead of opening your mouth and jamming both feet in.
"The fact that I lump rascism into the same bucket as all the other trends you seem to adore means nothing."
NO, that's just what you tell yourself so you can feel superior. The truth is that you are not smart enough to see the subtle differences, so you ridicule those who do because you're ashamed of your shortcomings.
Just because you aren't intelligent enough to see the differences, that is no reason to pretend there are no differences.
"No, the war wasn't going anywhere and it was having a MASSIVE...BLAHBLAHBLAH"
Who quit first and why? Germany, and because they were incapable of continuing. You can look it up, but you won't because you're about looking right, not actually being right, and that's just sad.
So do us a favor, educate yourself, take a rhetoric course, and STOP BEING SUCH A LIAR. Your family won't have to be ashamed of you anymore, and you won't have a trail of idiotic posts to remind you how you got outsmarted and embarrassed. By an AMERICAN. THAT IS CONSERVATIVE!!! AND WORST OF ALL? You know it's true, and you'll still try to deny it.
Yeah, but uncorroborated testimony of an accomplice doesn't fly anyways. They have to be able to use the testimony to find real tangible evidence to use, or it's just he said/she said.
Why? I argue the opposite: punishment very much is and end to itself, and really, it's the strongest defense of the death penalty. Many criminal wrongs can never be fully righted. When a criminal deprives an innocent person of something that cannot be restored, then, to most people, principles of fairness and justice demand that the criminal be deprived of something at least equal in value. This is accomplished by restitution where possible, but by punishment where it (frequently) is not. Support for the death penalty comes mostly from those who believe that depriving a criminal of liberty is simply not punishment enough when the victims are numerous, or are very innocent, or the crime was singularly heinous.
In fact, there are generally recognized to be four main functions of the corrections system:
1. Deterrance, both individual and general - persuade people not want to commit crimes.
2. Incapacitation - a person in prison cannot be out committing crimes.
3. Rehabilitation - make the criminal into a noncriminal.
4. Punishment/retribution - the guilty must suffer for their wrongs.
I see no reason why punishment is any less a valid goal than the other three.
If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
well you could be running vmware, in that case then yes you could kill -9 the vmware thread that represented the windows box that was just rootkited by the sony malware.. but i think the joke was that a signal 9 kill is a non-cacheable kill...
cache me if you can..
You're probably right, though it's beyond me how Sony could include this product without doing at least a *little* checking. The recording industry has been shooting themselves in the foot over and over again with this whole copy protection/DRM thing. You'd think at some point they'd get a clue and hire a few savvy software engineers. Then before they buy some copy protection scheme and press it onto 20 million CD's, they could give it to their own engineers and ask "Does this work? Can it be beaten if the user holds down the shift key? Can it be beaten with a 49 cent black marker? Does it work with most equipment, or are we going to have half of the buyers bringing them back? ARE WE BREAKING ANY LAWS?"
Evidently this hasn't happened yet.
It's the land of the brave, and the home of the free
Where the less you know, the better off you'll be.
I think their point is that regular dumb user should not be able to copy the CD. If they can block 99% of copying, they will feel good about it.
As for the law side of it, I think they'll fire many people in their IT department and this kind of fiasco will not happend any time soon to any of them.
It is still very amusing that they did not think about hiring some kind of security specialist to both verify that the solution works fine and that it is safe. You would expect that from someone who is big as sony is.
By the way, their uninstall utility was even more security problem than the original rootkit. So they probably still have not hired a good security expert.
Moving futher OT...
Sorry -- I know the above was an attempt at humor, but I do get sick of the assumption that everyone in Texas is far-flung Bush-lovin' right wingers.
Actually, it sounded more like biographical information rather than humor, but if you want to call it humor, it's your oyster...
As for his accent, many folks who spend enough time in an area with a strong accent/drawl tend to pick it up eventually. I spent six months in what the local's referred to as Lower Alabama (Florida panhandle) after growing up in California and it took me a couple years to completely get rid of the little bit of drawl I picked up and all the uniquely southern phrases. It's infectious.
Now if the rumor is true that Mr. Bush can't speak with Mr. Cheney is drinking water, I find it remarkable that Mr. Cheney's can switch accents so quickly.
Every woman is a 10...it just depends on the base you're counting in...
Starting next week, all passwords will be entered in Morse code
Sony gonna get owned.
i rock you.
well, if i were an employee at sony, and i really hated DRM, i could almost imagine deliberately causing a scandal such as this one--it would have been a brilliant strategy, no?
Please, Explain why you think I should back down if someone is threating me. IANAL But I think that in a case of self defence that up until our recent PC times that retreat was not required (or expected). (the Florida law is for self defence(and the defence of others).In our homes, automobiles, and on our streets.
I thought I hade a handle on it
I think cheney, wolfowitz, rumsfeld et al know how to get bush to do anything. All they need to do is to convince them that god wants him to do something and he will fall in line. Personally I don't think Bush went to iraq for oil, the cabal wanted the oil but they had to pitch it bush by pointing out that he would be fulfilling biblican prophesy if he invaded iraq.
evil is as evil does
For the record, the Green party is quite active in European politics (I'm a Texan living in Germany). Here the Green party has roughly 7% of the seats in parliament and until very recently the forein minister was a Green (as well as being one of the most popular politicians in the country).
heh good idea, may be "kill -9 Sony BMG"? ;)
This is exactly what the RIAA wonk was trying to avoid. Having the term "spyware" attached to the SONY BMG DRM software. Repeat after me "It's only copy protection, nothing wrong with that".
Live and let die, then.
If you can read this, I forgot to post anonymously.
God (Pronounced "Gawd") I Love Texas :P
If you do really care about writing so much, I would recommend:
1) Study to be a teacher.
2) Do a full critique of the entire post.
the sun is god
"I used to be a Sony fan but now I fan the flames."
I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty