It's funny. I've seen photos on that sensor- they look great.
As a 4x6.
I frankly like to look at my photos a bit larger, like maybe 8x10... or 11x14.... or even 16x20.
"The worlds first 10 MP camera". Only if you take every pixel and multiply by 3.
Frankly it's misleading advertising that, given time, may become true.
Unfortunately, it's not true now and unless they suddenly introduce something remarkable, say, full frame 11mp sensors that capture 3 channels independently, it'll still be a nice little gimmic.
But then again, thats just this one photographers opinion.
The Canon camera is 11mp, the Kodak is a 14mp. The 14mp is required *by definition* to have smaller pixels.
Smaller pixels generate more noise; however in each case both cameras have above the number of pixels to properly capture all information in a scene (I think it's 9 micron off the top of my head).
The difference is the Kodak camera is really designed to be a studio camera. That means base ISO is low, because studios typically have enough watt-seconds to handle the slow speeds. Colour accuracy is awesome.
When you crank that speed up, however, you start running into gain issues. Frankly any system outside of its design spec will exhibit more problems than a system within its design spec.
Kodak introduced (awhile back) a camera system that shot up to 6400 ISO, and was based upon the CMY Bayer pattern. This simply blew film, and the competiton, away- there was no comparison. However the slowest speed it could be used at was 400 ISO.
The Kodak SLR/C/N is ISO 160. That corresponds to Portra NC/VC/UC, a common pro film used in wedding photography. That might not be a coincidence;-)
You can fit more APS sized sensors on a wafer as compared to a 35mm frame. It' simple economics.
The EOS 1Ds, full frame sensor, 11 mp, costs $7000. The Eos 1DMKII, 1.3x smaller sensor, 8mp, costs $4500 The Eos 10D, 1.6x smaller sensor, 6.3mp, costs $1500.
Now if each wafer costs X dollars to make, and (pretend) have a fixed number of bad sensors due to crystal defects per wafer, which is the economically feasible solution to produce a consumer oriented camera?
Your pros will pay for the biggest sensor.
Your amateurs that can will also.
Your amateurs that can not will settle.
And actually, I just tossed an old lense to buy a brand new 16mm-35mm f2.8L Canon USM. $1300; with a 1.6x multiplier it's not even that good. But someday... I'll own that 1.3x multiplier, or even the 1.0x multiplier...
The author of these articles truly has no clue. I'm not sure where he's garnered his vast photographic experience from but so far he's simply told us 1) Bigger is better (duh) 2) Smaller sensor needs smaller lens (duh) 3) ????? (awaiting the third part)
Techincally (now talkign about the parent) your 2nd statement is incorrect. IF the SLR lense focused that same amount of light onto a smaller circle it would be faster. But they still put forth the same number of photons per unit area.
And to get on about lenses- (back to the articles author) 7 years ago I picked up a 70-200 2.8L canon USM lense. Big, beautiful, white piece of equipment that has served me for 7 years now- and will serve me for several more until I see the need to buy an Image Stabilized version. I paid a small fortune at the time - $1300. Would you like to compare the quality of images I get out of my glass to a piece of glass thats 50$? I just demo'd shots from the new camera I purchased and everyone couldn't believe how sharp, clear, and tight the images were. Of course they'd seen me with the camera (my god thats a big lense)... there just is no comparison for square inches.
In racing, it's cubic inches.
In photography, it's square inches.
And it would appear that, for the author of these articles, he's getting paid on the 'inch' basis.
Can we please skip the 3rd part? It's a waste of the inches I've got on my monitor. Much better taken up by ads.
Bayer patterns are RGBG anyway
on
Beyond Megapixels
·
· Score: 2, Informative
A standard bayer pattern is already 'double density' of green sensitive colours.
Some more advanced patterns use RGBY, where Y is munged Red and Green data- it's backed out in the sensor calculations.
The fastest (ISO rating) sensors use CMY (but I forget if its doubled M or doubled Y, or even if the last one is G for colour accuracy).
Ask yourself why- cyan is the opposite of red- how is cyan made? Magenta(R+B) and Yellow(R+G). Only the 'red' can pass thru, thus 1/2 the light is lost.
Sadly the matrix that is used to munge this data out of the wierd format is very odd looking and introduces colour errors (if the wavelenghts overlap certain peaks you are unable to determine which was which).
Printing, however, isn't the same as light. So you have to operate in the reverse- which means CMYK inks. Thats why you don't see green ink- the light has to be absorbed byt the inks, and therefore they have to be 'double' absorbed.
Lost ya yet?:)
Yes, I work for Kodak.
APS was better than 35mm in some regards
on
Beyond Megapixels
·
· Score: 1
1) Size. APS allowed for smaller cameras 2) Film Base. The PEN used in the base is practically indestructable. There were actually issues about knives not being sharp enough to cut it in commercial photo finishers. 3) Protection. No Touchy the Delicate Negatives- nuff said. 4) Colour rendition. 35mm can do this too, but APS allowed it to be pushed in with the new technologies.
16 watts driving a 35 kg load. Thats the equivelent of a couple of C cells driving a golfcart around.
IFF this can be verified (beyond the orders) and is not so prone to failure as to preclude it being used on a massive scale, we are talking about a revolution in available power reduction.
John and his GF were killed by a driver going approximately 90 mph, drunk. That driver ran red light after red light, until eventually driving his truck into John's car.
The courts ruled that a liquor serving establishment has no duty to stop serving alcohol to an intoxicated person.
all the men came out and couldn't help but watch... and then volunteer their help. Heh. Fortunately we had ourselves a monkey that works on bridges, and he decided to climb alot where he needed to. The rest was taken care of with ropes thrown over the tallest branches and strategic cuts to make it fall away from the houses.
OK maybe it was 5 hours... but it was most of the afternoon. And still rather fun:)
My neighbor wanted to take down his tree. It was 150 feet tall. The city only allows licensed tree cutters, which wanted in excess of 500$ to do so.
So... we took it down. Six guys and a 1987 GM pickup truck.
Mind you it took 5 hours, and had I not removed the gutters from my roof to work on the soffits, the top of the tree would have removed them for me (and probably much faster with less trepidation).
So the city makes a drive by midweek... and he gets a phone call and a citation for a whopping fine for not having used a licensed tree removal service. Convincing them that 6 guys and a pickup truck actually did the work took some time, but eventually he won.
He was then cited for not having replanted a tree within 10 feet of the road within 1 week (another ordinance) and fined 150$.
Face it- the government can and will spank you if someone gets their panties in a big of enough twist.
I left 45 minutes to ship a package all of 5 miles away. Thats' roughly 20 minutes to get there and back, and 25 minutes to get stuck.
So turn down the road and the first light is blocked because of a cop car. Fine- he's in a hurry to an accident, go. Miss that light.
The next light I'm stuck behind Grandma that won't turn on red, with no vehicular traffic in either direction. 2 minutes gone.
Drive down the lane and come upon a ford truck pulling a tractor bed. Must have been some stupid commercial. Jump into the left lane, pass (Still speed limit) and.... run into mom who requires a green turn arrow before she'll consider turning and risking her precious cargo. Slow moving ford truck catches up and blocks me in- 1 more minute gone.
Finally can zip around mom, and around slow moving truck, to get a light to turn in front of me red. wait 2 minutes. Go forward; lights change suddenly (no yellow), wait 2 more minutes.
Get to the next light (200 feet total in 4 minutes so far) and the morons failed to clear the intersection on a yellow- so there is a line of cars blocking both roads of traffic. Light reds out before they clear finally. Then.... an ambulance comes on the next green light, probably to go save whatever poor bloke the cop was going to see.
By now I'm pretty livid. That damn truck has caught up with me again and has once again blocked me in. But it's a straightaway with no traffic, and I should make good time....... until I get to the last light and see the traffic not moving. Figuring a stalled vehicle, I dive into the right lane (couldn't see over the SUVs in the left) and find out it's a cop directing a funeral. yes, I am hoping the guy the cop was going to see and the ambulance was going to rescue seems to have been burried just that fast.
After waiting for 4 freaking minutes, the cop goes on... but I'm stuck behind moron teenager that accelerates slowly until I finally get enough clearance to get around him, then guns it and pulls in front of me to block me off so he can make his left turn. Pass around on the right, back into my lane, and get ready to turn when....... Idiotic Dad is sitting there counting 7 second cars. As in, "I won't turn if there isn't at least 7 seconds between the oncoming car and me". I waited 3 minutes, 22 seconds there.
Then he proceeded to take the 25 mph speed bumps at 5 mph. I passed him on a residential street because I honestly couldn't take it anymore.
You say to relax, well, that's a typical day in Rochester, NY.
There's not alot that can be done when your tail section blows out due to improper riveting. You can't do anything but pray and land when the top of the aircraft peels open like a sardine can due to a bad joint that allows a crack to propogate the length of the plane.
And you know what? People still die falling down a flight of stairs.
It doesn't matter how fast you go, how close to the ground you are.
Now you do have good points about wing shock, but, those speeds are air that is no longer as dense, thus the forces exerted are much less and probably very close to equivelant as what's seen now adays.
I think I'd like to be able to go from NYC to London in 2 hrs. Especially if it works out to be cheaper.... I could go get my warm beer and be back before the night is out:)
Unless Linux makes inroads faster than what I've seen, offers complete emulation for windows products (perhaps with crashes every few days), and generally more intuitive (which sadly means looking 'more' like MS software), I'm not putting it on her desktop.
When it comes to stability I've had my desktop up for 1 month running W2K. The only two 'crashes' before then were memory failures (red checksum LED was lit) and an overheat caused by a fan failure.
You can't blame the guy for being excited. Skeptics called everyone 'foolish' for believe that water could have existed in any significant quantities on mars, in any form.
He may be jumping the gun a bit, but those water seekers certainly scored big by hitting two targets that both were drenched in water at one time.
'Course, nothing drives people better than proving someone else wrong...
They lumped all the "Extremely Satisfied", "Satisfied", "Somewhat Satisified", and "Not very Satisfied" together, and excluded the "Pissed off" catagorey.
They published the results as "99.7&% customer satisfaction" with their HMO plans.
Seems people found it a bit misleading and misrepresenting.
(yes I'm sure I have the catagories wrong, but it was the 4 out of 5 options, and the percentage might be off too but it was definately up in the suspicious range)
- but that's half the problem. Telling the difference between those that give a shit and those that sit and shit.
Hence the dilemna. I truly doubt, as one poster replied, that she's making this stuff. No one gets home from work that infuriated with stories that unbelieveable on a regular basis. 8 year old girls clawing each other.... it's just... something I can't ever understand.
Anyways, you are completely right- the culture won't change unless some outside impetus gives it a reason to change. Whether that be nanotech, robotic labour (3 rules safe!), an obvious sign of ETLife, the extinction of oil, or fusion.... somethig has to catalize it. Maybe it's cynical of me, but I doubt that many people would be so willing to embrace change.
Slashdot Mirror
Yep, your line was right there. Mentally skipped right over it- everything else was spot on and (expected) to see the logical conclusion somewhere.
Helps, of course, to read everything 3x and not be in a hurry.
.... till it's true.
It's funny. I've seen photos on that sensor- they look great.
As a 4x6.
I frankly like to look at my photos a bit larger, like maybe 8x10... or 11x14.... or even 16x20.
"The worlds first 10 MP camera". Only if you take every pixel and multiply by 3.
Frankly it's misleading advertising that, given time, may become true.
Unfortunately, it's not true now and unless they suddenly introduce something remarkable, say, full frame 11mp sensors that capture 3 channels independently, it'll still be a nice little gimmic.
But then again, thats just this one photographers opinion.
The Canon camera is 11mp, the Kodak is a 14mp. The 14mp is required *by definition* to have smaller pixels.
;-)
Smaller pixels generate more noise; however in each case both cameras have above the number of pixels to properly capture all information in a scene (I think it's 9 micron off the top of my head).
The difference is the Kodak camera is really designed to be a studio camera. That means base ISO is low, because studios typically have enough watt-seconds to handle the slow speeds. Colour accuracy is awesome.
When you crank that speed up, however, you start running into gain issues. Frankly any system outside of its design spec will exhibit more problems than a system within its design spec.
Kodak introduced (awhile back) a camera system that shot up to 6400 ISO, and was based upon the CMY Bayer pattern. This simply blew film, and the competiton, away- there was no comparison. However the slowest speed it could be used at was 400 ISO.
The Kodak SLR/C/N is ISO 160. That corresponds to Portra NC/VC/UC, a common pro film used in wedding photography. That might not be a coincidence
You can fit more APS sized sensors on a wafer as compared to a 35mm frame. It' simple economics.
The EOS 1Ds, full frame sensor, 11 mp, costs $7000.
The Eos 1DMKII, 1.3x smaller sensor, 8mp, costs $4500
The Eos 10D, 1.6x smaller sensor, 6.3mp, costs $1500.
Now if each wafer costs X dollars to make, and (pretend) have a fixed number of bad sensors due to crystal defects per wafer, which is the economically feasible solution to produce a consumer oriented camera?
Your pros will pay for the biggest sensor.
Your amateurs that can will also.
Your amateurs that can not will settle.
And actually, I just tossed an old lense to buy a brand new 16mm-35mm f2.8L Canon USM. $1300; with a 1.6x multiplier it's not even that good. But someday... I'll own that 1.3x multiplier, or even the 1.0x multiplier...
The author of these articles truly has no clue. I'm not sure where he's garnered his vast photographic experience from but so far he's simply told us
1) Bigger is better (duh)
2) Smaller sensor needs smaller lens (duh)
3) ????? (awaiting the third part)
Techincally (now talkign about the parent) your 2nd statement is incorrect. IF the SLR lense focused that same amount of light onto a smaller circle it would be faster. But they still put forth the same number of photons per unit area.
And to get on about lenses- (back to the articles author) 7 years ago I picked up a 70-200 2.8L canon USM lense. Big, beautiful, white piece of equipment that has served me for 7 years now- and will serve me for several more until I see the need to buy an Image Stabilized version. I paid a small fortune at the time - $1300. Would you like to compare the quality of images I get out of my glass to a piece of glass thats 50$? I just demo'd shots from the new camera I purchased and everyone couldn't believe how sharp, clear, and tight the images were. Of course they'd seen me with the camera (my god thats a big lense)... there just is no comparison for square inches.
In racing, it's cubic inches.
In photography, it's square inches.
And it would appear that, for the author of these articles, he's getting paid on the 'inch' basis.
Can we please skip the 3rd part? It's a waste of the inches I've got on my monitor. Much better taken up by ads.
A standard bayer pattern is already 'double density' of green sensitive colours.
:)
Some more advanced patterns use RGBY, where Y is munged Red and Green data- it's backed out in the sensor calculations.
The fastest (ISO rating) sensors use CMY (but I forget if its doubled M or doubled Y, or even if the last one is G for colour accuracy).
Ask yourself why- cyan is the opposite of red- how is cyan made? Magenta(R+B) and Yellow(R+G). Only the 'red' can pass thru, thus 1/2 the light is lost.
Sadly the matrix that is used to munge this data out of the wierd format is very odd looking and introduces colour errors (if the wavelenghts overlap certain peaks you are unable to determine which was which).
Printing, however, isn't the same as light. So you have to operate in the reverse- which means CMYK inks. Thats why you don't see green ink- the light has to be absorbed byt the inks, and therefore they have to be 'double' absorbed.
Lost ya yet?
Yes, I work for Kodak.
1) Size. APS allowed for smaller cameras
2) Film Base. The PEN used in the base is practically indestructable. There were actually issues about knives not being sharp enough to cut it in commercial photo finishers.
3) Protection. No Touchy the Delicate Negatives- nuff said.
4) Colour rendition. 35mm can do this too, but APS allowed it to be pushed in with the new technologies.
Yes, I work for Kodak.
16 watts driving a 35 kg load. Thats the equivelent of a couple of C cells driving a golfcart around.
:)
IFF this can be verified (beyond the orders) and is not so prone to failure as to preclude it being used on a massive scale, we are talking about a revolution in available power reduction.
I'm impressed
http://courts.state.wy.us/2003opn/2003WY77.pdf
0 6/ 27/news/wyoming/07ceeca18fd7d4922a93f098890bccc5.t xt
John and his GF were killed by a driver going approximately 90 mph, drunk. That driver ran red light after red light, until eventually driving his truck into John's car.
The courts ruled that a liquor serving establishment has no duty to stop serving alcohol to an intoxicated person.
http://www.casperstartribune.net/articles/2003/
So I say to black boxes, please, bring them on.
Do you type:
>/etc/rc.d/rc3.d/s95Knock UP
?
I had my leg go numb when struck by a little 3.5cm acorn knocked free of a tree by a pesky little squirrel.
I've seen a little kid nearly knocked unconcious, bleeding, from a scalp would from another acorn.
And don't even get me started as to what acorns do to sheetmetal of your vehicle from that height (not to mention squirrles that sometimes do fall).
It was a hazard... and a very, very painful one at that.
all the men came out and couldn't help but watch ... and then volunteer their help. Heh. Fortunately we had ourselves a monkey that works on bridges, and he decided to climb alot where he needed to. The rest was taken care of with ropes thrown over the tallest branches and strategic cuts to make it fall away from the houses.
:)
OK maybe it was 5 hours... but it was most of the afternoon. And still rather fun
True story:
My neighbor wanted to take down his tree. It was 150 feet tall. The city only allows licensed tree cutters, which wanted in excess of 500$ to do so.
So... we took it down. Six guys and a 1987 GM pickup truck.
Mind you it took 5 hours, and had I not removed the gutters from my roof to work on the soffits, the top of the tree would have removed them for me (and probably much faster with less trepidation).
So the city makes a drive by midweek... and he gets a phone call and a citation for a whopping fine for not having used a licensed tree removal service. Convincing them that 6 guys and a pickup truck actually did the work took some time, but eventually he won.
He was then cited for not having replanted a tree within 10 feet of the road within 1 week (another ordinance) and fined 150$.
Face it- the government can and will spank you if someone gets their panties in a big of enough twist.
... and not any windows-wrappered API calls.
*sigh*
Servers are being pounded right and left by some new worm variant, the only one functioning (of interest) is slashdot.
And what's today got to be? April 1st.
Why oh why. It's not even worth reloading the page.
Very easy:
1) Wring Neck
2) De-feather
3) Lather BBQ sauce
4) Slow cook over fire, ~ 1 hr
It's the Encrypting thats hard.... I prefer to feed them beer, but that makes packet routing difficult.
The Worlds Record for Data Transfer in a Station Wagon"
Basically, a station wagon of 35 gig tapes from SETI is driven to it's destination. Takes 16 hrs to fill 1 tape.
Although it is very humorous to see pigeons used, they are still prone to packet failure (automatic weapons fire).
It will distract the mugger so that he demands your hat, and you will escape with your precioussssssssss ipod intact.
This procedure also helps to hide ketchup stains on your shirt.
I left 45 minutes to ship a package all of 5 miles away. Thats' roughly 20 minutes to get there and back, and 25 minutes to get stuck.
.... run into mom who requires a green turn arrow before she'll consider turning and risking her precious cargo. Slow moving ford truck catches up and blocks me in- 1 more minute gone.
... until I get to the last light and see the traffic not moving. Figuring a stalled vehicle, I dive into the right lane (couldn't see over the SUVs in the left) and find out it's a cop directing a funeral. yes, I am hoping the guy the cop was going to see and the ambulance was going to rescue seems to have been burried just that fast.
... Idiotic Dad is sitting there counting 7 second cars. As in, "I won't turn if there isn't at least 7 seconds between the oncoming car and me". I waited 3 minutes, 22 seconds there.
So turn down the road and the first light is blocked because of a cop car. Fine- he's in a hurry to an accident, go. Miss that light.
The next light I'm stuck behind Grandma that won't turn on red, with no vehicular traffic in either direction. 2 minutes gone.
Drive down the lane and come upon a ford truck pulling a tractor bed. Must have been some stupid commercial. Jump into the left lane, pass (Still speed limit) and
Finally can zip around mom, and around slow moving truck, to get a light to turn in front of me red. wait 2 minutes. Go forward; lights change suddenly (no yellow), wait 2 more minutes.
Get to the next light (200 feet total in 4 minutes so far) and the morons failed to clear the intersection on a yellow- so there is a line of cars blocking both roads of traffic. Light reds out before they clear finally. Then.... an ambulance comes on the next green light, probably to go save whatever poor bloke the cop was going to see.
By now I'm pretty livid. That damn truck has caught up with me again and has once again blocked me in. But it's a straightaway with no traffic, and I should make good time....
After waiting for 4 freaking minutes, the cop goes on... but I'm stuck behind moron teenager that accelerates slowly until I finally get enough clearance to get around him, then guns it and pulls in front of me to block me off so he can make his left turn. Pass around on the right, back into my lane, and get ready to turn when....
Then he proceeded to take the 25 mph speed bumps at 5 mph. I passed him on a residential street because I honestly couldn't take it anymore.
You say to relax, well, that's a typical day in Rochester, NY.
"You're toast", as you've aptly pointed out.
:)
There's not alot that can be done when your tail section blows out due to improper riveting. You can't do anything but pray and land when the top of the aircraft peels open like a sardine can due to a bad joint that allows a crack to propogate the length of the plane.
And you know what? People still die falling down a flight of stairs.
It doesn't matter how fast you go, how close to the ground you are.
Now you do have good points about wing shock, but, those speeds are air that is no longer as dense, thus the forces exerted are much less and probably very close to equivelant as what's seen now adays.
I think I'd like to be able to go from NYC to London in 2 hrs. Especially if it works out to be cheaper.... I could go get my warm beer and be back before the night is out
*grin*
I had a 435 day uptime on my router.. I even transplanted it from one house to another (20 minute drive) by doubling up the UPS's on it.
Sadly I decided I'd upgrade the kernel and that, unfortunately, necessitated a reboot.
My grandmother.
Unless Linux makes inroads faster than what I've seen, offers complete emulation for windows products (perhaps with crashes every few days), and generally more intuitive (which sadly means looking 'more' like MS software), I'm not putting it on her desktop.
When it comes to stability I've had my desktop up for 1 month running W2K. The only two 'crashes' before then were memory failures (red checksum LED was lit) and an overheat caused by a fan failure.
You can't blame the guy for being excited. Skeptics called everyone 'foolish' for believe that water could have existed in any significant quantities on mars, in any form.
He may be jumping the gun a bit, but those water seekers certainly scored big by hitting two targets that both were drenched in water at one time.
'Course, nothing drives people better than proving someone else wrong...
They lumped all the "Extremely Satisfied", "Satisfied", "Somewhat Satisified", and "Not very Satisfied" together, and excluded the "Pissed off" catagorey.
They published the results as "99.7&% customer satisfaction" with their HMO plans.
Seems people found it a bit misleading and misrepresenting.
(yes I'm sure I have the catagories wrong, but it was the 4 out of 5 options, and the percentage might be off too but it was definately up in the suspicious range)
- but that's half the problem. Telling the difference between those that give a shit and those that sit and shit.
Hence the dilemna. I truly doubt, as one poster replied, that she's making this stuff. No one gets home from work that infuriated with stories that unbelieveable on a regular basis. 8 year old girls clawing each other.... it's just... something I can't ever understand.
Anyways, you are completely right- the culture won't change unless some outside impetus gives it a reason to change. Whether that be nanotech, robotic labour (3 rules safe!), an obvious sign of ETLife, the extinction of oil, or fusion.... somethig has to catalize it. Maybe it's cynical of me, but I doubt that many people would be so willing to embrace change.