I dare you to write a program using only C# the language.
That sort of defeats the whole point of things like Java and.NET, eh? Can you write a Java program without the JRE? Or, can you write a C program without the CRT? You *can*, but do you *want* to?
Aside from the fact that.Net isn't a standard (only C# is)
The CLI has been submitted to ECMA as well. But I guess that just escaped you.
I have a voice in the direction of Java
I doubt that's particularly valuable. I'd rather have a product's roadmap be dictated by market pressures. After all, we use them to make a living.
If.Net was a standard, and there were actually multiple implementations of this standard
Mono and the CLI for BSD not doing it for you?.NET is (barely) two years old, in any case.
It was built only to work with other MS products [...] assume that you'll be running on windows with windows widgets
"Widgets" aside, most everything that is not Windows specific can and has been adapted to other platforms. And there's lots of that. The Windows forms namespace was a compromise between performance and portability. I'd rather not have to deal with another Swing or (shudder) AWT, thanks.
Other than that, if you're writing server-side apps, you should be OK. It's only a matter of time before someone (even Microsoft) comes up with an application server implementation that is not COM-specific.
Net is BS [...] real server hardware and real server operating systems
Where is your proof to back up your claims that everyone who has posted "so what" on the standard has said differently in the past?
Please point out where I asserted that "people who have championed the submission of Java to a standards body are now saying they don't really care about it". I can't really see that in my post - mainly because there has never been an attempt by Sun to do that.
Unless I'm not getting your request for "proof".
Support your claims (as others have in this discussion).
"Support your claims" is a bit of a fallacy when used in the context of Slashdot, don't you think?
Besides, I make no claims - I merely point out an amusing double standard that is based more on feelings than it is on fact.
It's so funny how most of the comments so far in this article are saying essentially that certification is useless and means squat, and that Sun is doing the right thing by keeping control of Java and most people have no use for Java certification anyway so what's the point and it just works and "M$" is evil.
If Java had received some sort of certification and Microsoft wasn't bothering to do the same thing for C#, the comments would all read "see? that's proof that m$ is evil and Java is Superior!!1!! What are they afraid of? But nooooo, they NEVER play by the book or accepts standards! M$ is evil!!!1!.NET sucks!!"
There would be dozens of insightful posts pointing out how certification is a Good Thing and how Java once again r0xx0rz because of it. Other posts would go into long tirades about how.NET is a failed effort because C# is not certified. And ad nauseaum.
I think things like these speak volumes about how people approach their... ah... "dislike" of Microsoft. If they do [something], it's wrong and evil. If they don't do [something], they're wrong and evil for not doing it.
HAHAHAHA!!! The mods are getting into the spirit today! HAHAHAHAHAH!!! The first post on a story is modded +4, Insightful!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!! This is as hilarious as the RFC EVIL BIT!!!! HAHAHAHAH!!! April Fools!!!! Get it?? HAHAHAHAHA!!!!
It's good to see them charged for something, even if they have never had to atone for the thousands of customer dollars they have stolen.
I've never had any problems with PayPal, though I know about and recognize the horror stories about people having their money borked wholesale by the service, and how their accountability is next to zero.
But I don't think I share the submitter's glee about PayPal getting screwed - the "PATRIOT Act", which is supposed to be fighting terrorism.
In any case, I've said it before and I'll say it again - PayPal is NOT a bank. If you must use them, never "deposit" money with them and always, always use credit cards.
Lindows seems to think that somehow the fact that the OS that they use is free automatically gives them the higher ground when going head to head with Microsoft on any given field. Saving yourself $40 (or whatever the bulk OEM cost for an XP license is) is hardly the proverbial silver bullet.
And who buys these "media PCs" anyway? Does anyone have any info on the size of this market?
'A new bill would make Oregon the first state to take a formal stance against the hefty fees and technological limitations of software produced by large corporations such as Microsoft.'
I would like more information about this. States have tons of custom and commercial software packages they use for everything from tracking DUI offenders to registering kids in school districts. And those products more likely than not use things like databases and middleware things that are mostly OS-specific.
Forget about Windows and Office for a sec and think about the costs related to moving all that to an "open" platform. Especially today, when most states are flat broke and pulling money away from programs like education and welfare.
Does anyone have any real, specific information as to how Oregon plans to deal with this, outside of the all too familiar "oh, another blow to m$" static I keep hearing?
It seems to me that these are mostly empty gestures. What they should be doing is introducing alternative operating systems and applications selectively, where it makes sense and they represent the best tool for the job at hand. In this scenario, the "you must use [insert software]" is nothing more than an imposition made by the very people who know absolutely nothing about these things (the legislators) to the detriment of the people who will actually burden this (the MIS staffs at the state agencies). And ultimately, to the detriment of the taxpayers as well.
The bill motivated
by the request of the former party in power.
This will never become law. The prior "administration", whose party (the PRI) ruled the country for 80+ years is simply doing what they do best - make empty populist gestures and try to push crap through congress to see what happens.
And the current administration is unabashedly pro-business (and unfortunately pro-church as well) and since the system is similar to the US, I doubt the prez will sign it. He'll just veto it because along with his party (the PAN) he's in bed with everyone from EMI to Coca-Cola.
And the company doing this? I know them - my brother used to work here. They're used by the various families who own newspapers in Mexico to hassle each other with stupid copyright claims all the time. Of course "OLIVARES & CIA." obliges gleefully since they take a cut. Ambulance chasers of the 21st century.
Just for the benefit of all our non spanish-speaking readers, "Inodoro" means "toilet".
This EducationMinute 2.0 brought to you by the Organization For The Advancement Of Free As In Peseta Software Across The World And Other Obscure Places That Nobody Has Ever Heard About.
For you lurkers out there, notice that the Bungi has such "crappy" Karma that he has the +1 bonus. Look at his posting history - he frequently gets 4s and 5s.
It's a vast zealot conspiracy, I tell you.
The above post suggests that his karma is fine when he is merely "Pro-Microsoft"
I realize sarcasm is a lost art these days, but if you think that's what that sig is for, you need some sensitivity training ASAP.
It's when he turns into a drooling anti-linux schill that he runs into Karma trouble
Actually, I get into "karma trouble" when I have to take up tiresome flame fests with little puckers like yourself, who apparently have nothing better to do than to make stupid offtopic comments about other people's sigs - two just in this article, actually.
Other than that, my "karma" is fine, thanks.
Of course, If I was your manager and you fed me that misinformtion
If you were my manager, two things would happen:
You wouldn't know Linux from Lunix, which sort of defeats the notion of your knowing I'm "feeding" you anything (perhaps you're already in this unfortunate situation)
I would have taken my red stapler from your office and burned down the building around your sorry ass.
For those readers trying to win acceptance of open-source software in the workplace, what effort have you undertaken to educate management, and what has worked?
Well, I told the manager that it was free. He squinted. Then I told him there was no support, but if he opened a port to an IRC server we could get by. He squinted a little more. Then I told him it doesn't really run any of the software we use. He squinted even more. Finally I told him we'd have to use Java or something because.NET doesn't really run in Linux. It will soon, though! He was beginning to look like a japanese psycho on speed by then, so fearing for my job I backpedaled out of his office, bowing a few times and muttering something I heard on the Iron Chef the other day that sounded important. To this day he's not speaking to me.
Office 2003 XML has been reported to be almost worthless to non-M$ apps.
If you're referring to the "reporting" done here in Slashdot, think again. The article posted re: Office XML was flamebait, pure and simple, as are many of the "m$ sucks" articles posted here day in and day out.
I suggest you go read the responses to that article - pay attention to those modded down "flamebait". And then find a valid news source.
Microsoft will extend the base classes to the point of complete uninteroperability as quickly as they can
Slashdot Mirror
That sort of defeats the whole point of things like Java and .NET, eh? Can you write a Java program without the JRE? Or, can you write a C program without the CRT? You *can*, but do you *want* to?
Aside from the fact that .Net isn't a standard (only C# is)
The CLI has been submitted to ECMA as well. But I guess that just escaped you.
I have a voice in the direction of Java
I doubt that's particularly valuable. I'd rather have a product's roadmap be dictated by market pressures. After all, we use them to make a living.
If .Net was a standard, and there were actually multiple implementations of this standard
Mono and the CLI for BSD not doing it for you? .NET is (barely) two years old, in any case.
It was built only to work with other MS products [...] assume that you'll be running on windows with windows widgets
"Widgets" aside, most everything that is not Windows specific can and has been adapted to other platforms. And there's lots of that. The Windows forms namespace was a compromise between performance and portability. I'd rather not have to deal with another Swing or (shudder) AWT, thanks.
Other than that, if you're writing server-side apps, you should be OK. It's only a matter of time before someone (even Microsoft) comes up with an application server implementation that is not COM-specific.
Net is BS [...] real server hardware and real server operating systems
You're so 1337!
Please point out where I asserted that "people who have championed the submission of Java to a standards body are now saying they don't really care about it". I can't really see that in my post - mainly because there has never been an attempt by Sun to do that.
Unless I'm not getting your request for "proof".
Support your claims (as others have in this discussion).
"Support your claims" is a bit of a fallacy when used in the context of Slashdot, don't you think?
Besides, I make no claims - I merely point out an amusing double standard that is based more on feelings than it is on fact.
I don't understand this - Microsoft may be evil, but do you really think they're that stupid?
If Java had received some sort of certification and Microsoft wasn't bothering to do the same thing for C#, the comments would all read "see? that's proof that m$ is evil and Java is Superior!!1!! What are they afraid of? But nooooo, they NEVER play by the book or accepts standards! M$ is evil!!!1! .NET sucks!!"
There would be dozens of insightful posts pointing out how certification is a Good Thing and how Java once again r0xx0rz because of it. Other posts would go into long tirades about how .NET is a failed effort because C# is not certified. And ad nauseaum.
I think things like these speak volumes about how people approach their... ah... "dislike" of Microsoft. If they do [something], it's wrong and evil. If they don't do [something], they're wrong and evil for not doing it.
But I suppose them's the dregs.
Stop it, please, stop it!!! HAHAHAHAHAH!!!! *snort*
Hehe, that's a keeper. Along with the "I stab at thee, M$" one.
SPAM! SPAM! SPAM! SPAM!!
Except that this time it's:
RFC EVIL BIT! RFC EVIL BIT! RFC EVIL BIT!
Just when you thought it was safe to log into Slashdot...
RFC EVIL BIT! RFC EVIL BIT! RFC EVIL BIT!
I sense a new meme in the works, yes.
What is the thing that we bitch most about? Dupes. What are the /. crowd doing? Posting dupes. Duh.
It's quite funny but it ceases to be funny if it needs to be explained. So just go away and don't read /. today, k? thx!
Hmmmm. Someone needs a hug. And a new account - this one's hitting the negative karma really quick.
You deserve to be punished.
No FireWire? Not even USB 2.0? WTF is this? And they dare put an 'i' in front of the name? How dare they!
I've never had any problems with PayPal, though I know about and recognize the horror stories about people having their money borked wholesale by the service, and how their accountability is next to zero.
But I don't think I share the submitter's glee about PayPal getting screwed - the "PATRIOT Act", which is supposed to be fighting terrorism.
In any case, I've said it before and I'll say it again - PayPal is NOT a bank. If you must use them, never "deposit" money with them and always, always use credit cards.
And who buys these "media PCs" anyway? Does anyone have any info on the size of this market?
I think sometimes they do.
The wording of the blurb makes that pretty clear.
But more often than not, it doesn't.
*ducks*
I would like more information about this. States have tons of custom and commercial software packages they use for everything from tracking DUI offenders to registering kids in school districts. And those products more likely than not use things like databases and middleware things that are mostly OS-specific.
Forget about Windows and Office for a sec and think about the costs related to moving all that to an "open" platform. Especially today, when most states are flat broke and pulling money away from programs like education and welfare.
Does anyone have any real, specific information as to how Oregon plans to deal with this, outside of the all too familiar "oh, another blow to m$" static I keep hearing?
It seems to me that these are mostly empty gestures. What they should be doing is introducing alternative operating systems and applications selectively, where it makes sense and they represent the best tool for the job at hand. In this scenario, the "you must use [insert software]" is nothing more than an imposition made by the very people who know absolutely nothing about these things (the legislators) to the detriment of the people who will actually burden this (the MIS staffs at the state agencies). And ultimately, to the detriment of the taxpayers as well.
It's a bad Dilbert cartoon - at a massive scale.
Do you have anything of value to add here, or are you just playing "Whiny Liberal Hippie Does Slashdot"?
Yes but it's waaaay over there, very tiny. Just a speck.
Until something like this gets approved at the federal level, at least.
And I know that won't do much good for overseas spammers and so on, but perhaps it will increase the cost of doing business.
In those case, we can only hope that other countries will do the same. China and Korea, especially.
This will never become law. The prior "administration", whose party (the PRI) ruled the country for 80+ years is simply doing what they do best - make empty populist gestures and try to push crap through congress to see what happens.
And the current administration is unabashedly pro-business (and unfortunately pro-church as well) and since the system is similar to the US, I doubt the prez will sign it. He'll just veto it because along with his party (the PAN) he's in bed with everyone from EMI to Coca-Cola.
And the company doing this? I know them - my brother used to work here. They're used by the various families who own newspapers in Mexico to hassle each other with stupid copyright claims all the time. Of course "OLIVARES & CIA." obliges gleefully since they take a cut. Ambulance chasers of the 21st century.
Just for the benefit of all our non spanish-speaking readers, "Inodoro" means "toilet".
This EducationMinute 2.0 brought to you by the Organization For The Advancement Of Free As In Peseta Software Across The World And Other Obscure Places That Nobody Has Ever Heard About.
Now that was a great comeback.
It has worked, mostly (which reminds me - I have to send my firstborn to the people who wrote WinCVS). I'm currently trying to introduce Bugzilla.
I'm not trying to convert to open source completely, but rather to use the best tool for the job.
It's a vast zealot conspiracy, I tell you.
The above post suggests that his karma is fine when he is merely "Pro-Microsoft"
I realize sarcasm is a lost art these days, but if you think that's what that sig is for, you need some sensitivity training ASAP.
It's when he turns into a drooling anti-linux schill that he runs into Karma trouble
Actually, I get into "karma trouble" when I have to take up tiresome flame fests with little puckers like yourself, who apparently have nothing better to do than to make stupid offtopic comments about other people's sigs - two just in this article, actually.
Other than that, my "karma" is fine, thanks.
Of course, If I was your manager and you fed me that misinformtion
If you were my manager, two things would happen:
- You wouldn't know Linux from Lunix, which sort of defeats the notion of your knowing I'm "feeding" you anything (perhaps you're already in this unfortunate situation)
- I would have taken my red stapler from your office and burned down the building around your sorry ass.
I'd fire your ass.You can always hope, I suppose.
Well, I told the manager that it was free. He squinted. Then I told him there was no support, but if he opened a port to an IRC server we could get by. He squinted a little more. Then I told him it doesn't really run any of the software we use. He squinted even more. Finally I told him we'd have to use Java or something because .NET doesn't really run in Linux. It will soon, though! He was beginning to look like a japanese psycho on speed by then, so fearing for my job I backpedaled out of his office, bowing a few times and muttering something I heard on the Iron Chef the other day that sounded important. To this day he's not speaking to me.
That's my story. Anyone else?
If you're referring to the "reporting" done here in Slashdot, think again. The article posted re: Office XML was flamebait, pure and simple, as are many of the "m$ sucks" articles posted here day in and day out.
I suggest you go read the responses to that article - pay attention to those modded down "flamebait". And then find a valid news source.
Microsoft will extend the base classes to the point of complete uninteroperability as quickly as they can
Wow, I'd kill to have a crystal ball!