That damnable bar is quite good, it gets better the more you use it and I now like it. Some people just don't like change though, but its fortunate for them that they can turn it off.
Next week, a tutorial on how to type "disable awesome bar" into google.
no, you have to be careful with any object that contains non-memory data. That includes other objects.
So if you have a controller object that contains an object that itself contains a db connection, you have to be careful deleting the controller. Mostly its straightforward, but you do need to clean up yourself.
Like I said, I deal with new C# developers who do think GC is magic (probably something to do with MS marketing) and I have read many such horror stories (eg, "I have this loop and after a while I get a DB exception - too many cursors, how do I fix it". Too often the answer is "call gc.collect more often" ). The same problems also apply to Java, so I highlighted it for the OP.
exactly my point - its not using as much OO features, or GC features if you have to manage your resources manually. You might as well be coding in C.
People think of GC as a mangic bullet that solves all problems, obviously its not, but I like to challenge the hype (yes, I'm mostly looking at new C# devs).
Unfortunately, Java is a declining trend. To keep your skills 'current' you're going to have to get down on your knees and start sucking on Microsoft's bloated development tools.
*ahem* sorry about that.
Java is declining now (from 35% of all UK IT Jobs in 2004 to 25% now). I can't help think its due to C# and possibly the rise of scripting languages like Ruby/Python and PHP. I can't be sure though, I think Linux and OSS development is a rising trend (Evand Data says in 2006 74% of all devs targetted Windows, in 2007 it was 65% - hence MS getting all generous with Zend and the Apache foundation, if you are going to do OSS dev, they want you to do it on Windows).
Scripting languages are going places - from next to nothing in 2004, to over 10% today. That's impressive, add javascript (at 15%) to that and knowing a new script language won't hurt.
Incidentally, average C# salary = £41k, average python salary £45k, ruby £44k.
That's a overly simplistic view of finalisers. See, GC is good for memory resources, but dreadful for anything else. So imagine you have an object that contains a file handle or a socket or a database connection. When you 'delete' the object the GC will eventually clear it up, but in the meantime - firstly your non-memory resource is still in-use, and secondly, unless you have code in a finaliser it will never get de-allocated.
The penalties for using finalisers are pretty bad, but you have to use them. The alternative is to code your application using structured programming methodologies where you explicitly call a dispose or closehandle method before throwing your object to the GC. Of course, in such cases, you might as well not have bothered with a GC if you're suddenly having to perform explicit object cleanup yourself.
not by itself (unless Sharepoint 2007 has more bundled features).
Take v2003 (which is what we use), and try using it without Team Services (called WSS I believe now), or Infopath and you'll find it does sod all. Its integration with documents is little more than 'check out' (no version control without team services), edit in Word/Excel/etc, then automatically check back in.
So I know what you're saying - buy Sharepoint and then buy a load more stuff to make it useful, but we'd rather not after using the plain out of the box system. The cost is prohibitive for us - Infopath (only in Office Pro) for example would cost us another £100 per user, and we have a lot of users. I'm sure MS thinks that'd be a great idea though.
I've had to use sharepoint and its a dirty word in our office. However, I know of a nice replacement that's easier to use and faster - its called a network share.
Sharepoint is basically a web frontend to stored documents in a hierarchical format. You click on one, it downloads and opens in the registered app. That's about it. You can get it to show filtered views of the documents (eg a 'details view' with a 'tree view' on the side).
To do anything meaningful with it with need 'extras' such as infopath (comes with expensive Office Professional) or Team Server. Nobody at work wants anything to do with it, but its one of those "we spent so much money on it you have to use it" applications:(
O3 spaces - community edition is '10 users', 'not suited for production use'. Unless its a broken demoware I'm not sure what it is. At 86MB download it'd have to be something special! Try Owl or Contineo or even XOOPs or similar instead.
True, but I can think of a reason why companies would want to subsidise OSS for their own selfish needs.
Currently I use some OSS software in my company, dragging my boss kicking and screaming and recently, begrudgingly agreeing that it was a better solution!. Now, there are features I'd like to add, improvements I'd like to make, additions I'd like to implement, but I don't really have the time at work or at home to do it. Persuade my boss that we could improve the OSS software and we would have a better system for our needs, and the OSS projects I use would gain from my work.
I don't think we'd ever directly pay for improvements we'd do it ourselves, but both ways amount to the same thing - subsidised OSS software, where everyone wins.
because then it becomes "pay us $30 or 'Knuckles' Dave and 'Formatter' John will install Roxio CD Burner Starter Edition on your computer, and you wouldn't want us to do that now would you".
Yeah, I was going for funny. sheesh,/. moderators eh? Just like some posters who take a simple comment and turn it into an anti-ruby or pro-java rant!
Partly the point is - C is the fastest there, Ruby was the slowest (but apparently is the best for programmer productivity - IANARP so I wouldn't know), Java was 2x slower than C? 3x? I forget the exact number, but if you want speed and efficient resource usage, go C. If not, choose something that makes you happy.
tip: don't use Task Manager, for investigating performance issues, use PerfMon (under administrative tools on your start menu).
Open a performance report, add the %CPU counter for just IE (it'll be under the Process counter set).
You can get it to update faster than 1 second default, and get it to log to a file instead so you can view it later. Add a network counter and memory counter too for more insight.
Programming functional style (and limiting side effects) makes this task easier.
Programming functional style (and NO side effects) makes this task easier. With multi-threaded apps, its an all-or-nothing approach. Some side-effects will ruin your week in a difficult to reproduce (let alone debug) way.
Even then, I think you'll find its next to impossible to achieve without programmer hints to the compiler, but then you might as well make those hints into thread features of the language and let the programmer write threaded code.
you want "memory allocation voodoo" in a lower level language? easy. overload the new operator in C++ and you're done. We did this for a very very fast, very very scalable system ages ago (back when 900mhz CPUs were teh win). You basically pre-allocate a pool of fixed-size blocks (eg 16 bytes, 32 bytes etc) then grab the first free one off the relevant pool when you need an object. And without the overhead of a garbage collector too!
Ruby at 63x longer (or 30x slower than Java) should shut up all the Java haters who witter on about Ruby (or PHP at 12 slower than Java) for web development.
nonsense:) if you want machine performance, go with C/C++. If you don't care about how fast your app runs becuase you're focussed on programmer productivity go with Ruby or Python. Java/C# therefore is a worse-in-every-case option:)
since you can just offload the JIT to one of the other cores it wouldn't be JIT then, it'd have to be 'before the code is executed', because you wouldn't want the compiler to spring into action, run on core 2 whilst core 1 twiddles its thumbs waiting for the compilation to finish. And if you think to use the 2nd core to JIT the entire app in advance, you might as well pre-JIT the entire thing and ship that.
4GB will be fairly standard soon. Ubuntu already burns around 500Mb for me doing nothing. Good job you're not running Vista then. 4Gb will *have* to be standard just to get basic performance the way things are going with this "memory is cheap" mantra.
Ach! 32 bit Vista doesn't do 4GB. Curses, foiled again. (serious point - memory might be cheap but if every app requires lots, then its going to get pretty expensive buying the larger capaxity sticks assuming you have that many slots on your motherboard)
amen. The error message seems to be designed for people who know about these things, not mom and pop users.
They could improve the message significantly, explaining what the problem is and what to do about it. Then I think the issue wouldn't be so big anymore. People would still complain about the number of clicks to accept a self-signed cert, but at least it would appear as legitimate information instead of an 'error'.
Its interesting you say that - the target audience already have Vista, when the buy a new PC. (and like they're going to go out and buy an upgrade OS to install themselves, lol).
Its businesses that MS need to win over, but they know the facts (2gb RAM and an upgraded graphics card per client! Maybe next year....) and they won't be won over by Sienfeld ads.
Fair enough about Python libraries, but my point wasn't about bundled libs, its libs that are available. If you had every python library available in a c++ package, would you still consider c++ lacking in this way? Those libs are available, you may have to use google a little to find them though:)
ah no. GC doesn't allow you to stop thinking. Otherwise you get 'soft leaks' (ie objects still referenced when you think they're deleted), non-memory resources hanging around when you'd rather they were collected, memory buildup that does affect performance when it comes to cleanup, application hang while the GC does its work, to name the few I can think off off my head.
You even need reference counting in some cases - see SafeHandle in.NET for one they had to put in.
RAII is the design pattern you want.
If you think GC provides a silver bullet for your memory management problems, you're going to be disappointed one day. Just ask the Princeton university DARPA challenge team what they think.
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That damnable bar is quite good, it gets better the more you use it and I now like it. Some people just don't like change though, but its fortunate for them that they can turn it off.
Next week, a tutorial on how to type "disable awesome bar" into google.
That's no way to talk about Alan Davies, who is after all a foil for Stephen to show how astoundingly clever, witty and educated he is.
A touch screen in a horizontal orientation probably wouldn't be so tiring,
Only if you could lean on it.. but I think that wouldn't help much.
no, you have to be careful with any object that contains non-memory data. That includes other objects.
So if you have a controller object that contains an object that itself contains a db connection, you have to be careful deleting the controller. Mostly its straightforward, but you do need to clean up yourself.
Like I said, I deal with new C# developers who do think GC is magic (probably something to do with MS marketing) and I have read many such horror stories (eg, "I have this loop and after a while I get a DB exception - too many cursors, how do I fix it". Too often the answer is "call gc.collect more often" ). The same problems also apply to Java, so I highlighted it for the OP.
People with little dicks will do anything for a cure.
Really? I wouldn't know. :-)
exactly my point - its not using as much OO features, or GC features if you have to manage your resources manually. You might as well be coding in C.
People think of GC as a mangic bullet that solves all problems, obviously its not, but I like to challenge the hype (yes, I'm mostly looking at new C# devs).
Unfortunately, Java is a declining trend. To keep your skills 'current' you're going to have to get down on your knees and start sucking on Microsoft's bloated development tools.
*ahem* sorry about that.
Java is declining now (from 35% of all UK IT Jobs in 2004 to 25% now). I can't help think its due to C# and possibly the rise of scripting languages like Ruby/Python and PHP. I can't be sure though, I think Linux and OSS development is a rising trend (Evand Data says in 2006 74% of all devs targetted Windows, in 2007 it was 65% - hence MS getting all generous with Zend and the Apache foundation, if you are going to do OSS dev, they want you to do it on Windows).
Scripting languages are going places - from next to nothing in 2004, to over 10% today. That's impressive, add javascript (at 15%) to that and knowing a new script language won't hurt.
Incidentally, average C# salary = £41k, average python salary £45k, ruby £44k.
That's a overly simplistic view of finalisers. See, GC is good for memory resources, but dreadful for anything else. So imagine you have an object that contains a file handle or a socket or a database connection. When you 'delete' the object the GC will eventually clear it up, but in the meantime - firstly your non-memory resource is still in-use, and secondly, unless you have code in a finaliser it will never get de-allocated.
The penalties for using finalisers are pretty bad, but you have to use them. The alternative is to code your application using structured programming methodologies where you explicitly call a dispose or closehandle method before throwing your object to the GC. Of course, in such cases, you might as well not have bothered with a GC if you're suddenly having to perform explicit object cleanup yourself.
not by itself (unless Sharepoint 2007 has more bundled features).
Take v2003 (which is what we use), and try using it without Team Services (called WSS I believe now), or Infopath and you'll find it does sod all. Its integration with documents is little more than 'check out' (no version control without team services), edit in Word/Excel/etc, then automatically check back in.
So I know what you're saying - buy Sharepoint and then buy a load more stuff to make it useful, but we'd rather not after using the plain out of the box system. The cost is prohibitive for us - Infopath (only in Office Pro) for example would cost us another £100 per user, and we have a lot of users. I'm sure MS thinks that'd be a great idea though.
I've had to use sharepoint and its a dirty word in our office. However, I know of a nice replacement that's easier to use and faster - its called a network share.
Sharepoint is basically a web frontend to stored documents in a hierarchical format. You click on one, it downloads and opens in the registered app. That's about it. You can get it to show filtered views of the documents (eg a 'details view' with a 'tree view' on the side).
To do anything meaningful with it with need 'extras' such as infopath (comes with expensive Office Professional) or Team Server. Nobody at work wants anything to do with it, but its one of those "we spent so much money on it you have to use it" applications :(
O3 spaces - community edition is '10 users', 'not suited for production use'. Unless its a broken demoware I'm not sure what it is. At 86MB download it'd have to be something special! Try Owl or Contineo or even XOOPs or similar instead.
True, but I can think of a reason why companies would want to subsidise OSS for their own selfish needs.
Currently I use some OSS software in my company, dragging my boss kicking and screaming and recently, begrudgingly agreeing that it was a better solution!. Now, there are features I'd like to add, improvements I'd like to make, additions I'd like to implement, but I don't really have the time at work or at home to do it. Persuade my boss that we could improve the OSS software and we would have a better system for our needs, and the OSS projects I use would gain from my work.
I don't think we'd ever directly pay for improvements we'd do it ourselves, but both ways amount to the same thing - subsidised OSS software, where everyone wins.
because then it becomes "pay us $30 or 'Knuckles' Dave and 'Formatter' John will install Roxio CD Burner Starter Edition on your computer, and you wouldn't want us to do that now would you".
I suppose he's going to give it 110% so he can be 1000% confident Linux will be on 500% of all mobile devices.
I was going to say something else but I've forgotten his name already.
How come this what modded as insightful?
Yeah, I was going for funny. sheesh, /. moderators eh? Just like some posters who take a simple comment and turn it into an anti-ruby or pro-java rant!
Partly the point is - C is the fastest there, Ruby was the slowest (but apparently is the best for programmer productivity - IANARP so I wouldn't know), Java was 2x slower than C? 3x? I forget the exact number, but if you want speed and efficient resource usage, go C. If not, choose something that makes you happy.
tip: don't use Task Manager, for investigating performance issues, use PerfMon (under administrative tools on your start menu).
Open a performance report, add the %CPU counter for just IE (it'll be under the Process counter set).
You can get it to update faster than 1 second default, and get it to log to a file instead so you can view it later. Add a network counter and memory counter too for more insight.
Programming functional style (and limiting side effects) makes this task easier.
Programming functional style (and NO side effects) makes this task easier. With multi-threaded apps, its an all-or-nothing approach. Some side-effects will ruin your week in a difficult to reproduce (let alone debug) way.
Even then, I think you'll find its next to impossible to achieve without programmer hints to the compiler, but then you might as well make those hints into thread features of the language and let the programmer write threaded code.
you want "memory allocation voodoo" in a lower level language? easy. overload the new operator in C++ and you're done. We did this for a very very fast, very very scalable system ages ago (back when 900mhz CPUs were teh win). You basically pre-allocate a pool of fixed-size blocks (eg 16 bytes, 32 bytes etc) then grab the first free one off the relevant pool when you need an object. And without the overhead of a garbage collector too!
Ruby at 63x longer (or 30x slower than Java) should shut up all the Java haters who witter on about Ruby (or PHP at 12 slower than Java) for web development.
nonsense :) if you want machine performance, go with C/C++. If you don't care about how fast your app runs becuase you're focussed on programmer productivity go with Ruby or Python. Java/C# therefore is a worse-in-every-case option :)
since you can just offload the JIT to one of the other cores
it wouldn't be JIT then, it'd have to be 'before the code is executed', because you wouldn't want the compiler to spring into action, run on core 2 whilst core 1 twiddles its thumbs waiting for the compilation to finish. And if you think to use the 2nd core to JIT the entire app in advance, you might as well pre-JIT the entire thing and ship that.
4GB will be fairly standard soon. Ubuntu already burns around 500Mb for me doing nothing.
Good job you're not running Vista then. 4Gb will *have* to be standard just to get basic performance the way things are going with this "memory is cheap" mantra.
Ach! 32 bit Vista doesn't do 4GB. Curses, foiled again. (serious point - memory might be cheap but if every app requires lots, then its going to get pretty expensive buying the larger capaxity sticks assuming you have that many slots on your motherboard)
and so is salary...
(£46k average for c++, 41 for c#, 39 for ".net", 37 for ".net developer". Check out Linux adoption too!)
lol. but - read the summary: Five new wires are bundled in the cable, four of them used for data transfer (bi-directional transfer is now supported)
So its really a UPB now :)
amen. The error message seems to be designed for people who know about these things, not mom and pop users.
They could improve the message significantly, explaining what the problem is and what to do about it. Then I think the issue wouldn't be so big anymore. People would still complain about the number of clicks to accept a self-signed cert, but at least it would appear as legitimate information instead of an 'error'.
Its interesting you say that - the target audience already have Vista, when the buy a new PC. (and like they're going to go out and buy an upgrade OS to install themselves, lol).
Its businesses that MS need to win over, but they know the facts (2gb RAM and an upgraded graphics card per client! Maybe next year....) and they won't be won over by Sienfeld ads.
Fair enough about Python libraries, but my point wasn't about bundled libs, its libs that are available. If you had every python library available in a c++ package, would you still consider c++ lacking in this way? Those libs are available, you may have to use google a little to find them though :)
ah no. GC doesn't allow you to stop thinking. Otherwise you get 'soft leaks' (ie objects still referenced when you think they're deleted), non-memory resources hanging around when you'd rather they were collected, memory buildup that does affect performance when it comes to cleanup, application hang while the GC does its work, to name the few I can think off off my head.
You even need reference counting in some cases - see SafeHandle in .NET for one they had to put in.
RAII is the design pattern you want.
If you think GC provides a silver bullet for your memory management problems, you're going to be disappointed one day. Just ask the Princeton university DARPA challenge team what they think.
....posting this while I wait for a whole lot of C++ code to compile.