Smilin' Bob Not Smilin' Anymore

Consumerist reports an Associated Press release that Steve Warshak, 42, was found guilty of 93 counts of conspiracy, fraud and money laundering. His 75-year-old mother, who has cancer, was found guilty of conspiracy and other charges, and was sentenced to 2-years, but is free pending appeal. US District Judge Arthur Spiegel, in Cincinnati, OH, denied Mr. Warshak's request to remain free pending appeal, but gave him 30 days to wrap up his affairs and report to prison. Besides Enzyte, Washak's company, Berkeley Premium Nutraceuticals, who also distributes products to boost energy, manage weight, reduce memory loss and aid sleep, will be allowed to stay in business — but must forfeit $500 million. Among their most egregious offenses was a requirement of a Notarized statement from a doctor certifying that they had a small penis. Amazingly, remarkably few customers availed themselves of the refund offer. Unfortunately, it looks like the commercials will still be able to continue...

Comments

Snake Oil

[18_Rabbit]

How do people suspend their critical thinking enough to believe these things? Snake oil has been around forever, it looks like it's not going away any time soon.

Re:Snake Oil

[KGIII]

People with little dicks will do anything for a cure. One that doesn't require them telling people about their sexual problems is even more likely to make money given their desperation.

Re:Snake Oil

[gbjbaanb]

People with little dicks will do anything for a cure.

Really? I wouldn't know. :-)

Re:Snake Oil

[Joe Tie.]

To be fair, we're living in one of the few times in human history when typical snake oil claims 'can' be real. There actually are drugs that can decrease wrinkles, increase hair growth, or keep you awake when you should be asleep. I can't blame people quite as much for not understanding how to do proper research on something, or knowing signs of a scam.

Re:Snake Oil

[Renraku]

Its easy to get people to believe something they want as opposed to something they don't.

Trying to convince the religious that their religion is a sham is next to impossible.
Trying to convince the poor that they can become rich overnight is easy.

Re:Snake Oil

[Spy der Mann]

How do people suspend their critical thinking enough to believe these things?

Two letters: T.V.

Re:Snake Oil

[TheRealMindChild]

The nasty trick in this game is that they offer a free sample... all you do is pay like $1.95 for shipping, which MUST be paid for by credit card. "Not bad" they think. "The worst that could happen is it doesn't work and I'm out a couple of dollars" they say. Sure. It sounds reasonable. By that time, you are already screwed. See, when you open your package of wonder, it comes with an "informational" booklet that is actually more like an advertisement for their other products. Almost everyone just throws it out. But in the middle of the 13th page, between two paragraphs that have nothing to do with it, is a statement saying "By ordering this sample, you agree to become part of an automatic plan in which we send you a new supply every month and charge your credit card. If you do not agree to this, you must cancel this agreement by calling 1-800-Screwed-U"

A lot of this seems like a dramatic embellishment. It isn't. Obviously the quotes aren't exact and the phone number isn't really what I listed (explanation for the humor impaired), this is how it works. By the time you realize that you are on some automatic plan to get crap that didn't do as advertised in the first place, they have already charged you for two months supply. And you can not return it under any circumstances.

Disclaimer: I worked with a guy that sued Berkeley Nutraceuticals.

Re:Snake Oil

[Maelwryth]

That reminds me of a conversation I was having with my brother about how much we hated our toilet because you always ended up touching the bowl. A friend of ours walked in on this and said,"Really? I've never had that problem." At which point we both collapsed laughing.

People should put more thought into toilet design. :)

Re:Snake Oil

[PachmanP]

Interestingly enough, I actually sell a product made from cobra oil that will enhance your maleness. And it works! Just look at how much this guy over here's wife smiles!*





*Well hung pool boy not included

Re:Snake Oil

[jmcharry]

Why does the government allow companies to make unsubstantiated claims with only a disclaimer in fine print flashed at the end of the ad? They let snake oil hucksters bellow that their miracle cure is "clinically proven" in commercials that mimic those of legitimate drugs, with only a flashed disclaimer that is extremely hard to read.

About the easiest way to deal with this is to just translate "clinically proven" to "snake oil".

Re:Snake Oil

[ComaVN]

So why wouldn't you just call your cc company and reverse the (follow-up) charges?

Re:Snake Oil

[TheRealMindChild]

Because things like these aren't drugs. They are "Vitamins" which claims of effects have not been "evaluated by the FDA".

Re:Snake Oil

[OrangeTide]

The thing is that a lot of people only think they have a small penis, when they are well with in the normal range for "average". Luckily people don't normally see your penis. Women have to deal with snake oil salesmen for boob size and thinness, and it's harder to resist these charlatans when their size is apparent to everyone.
I also blame society's preoccupation with sex. (not anything new there)

Re:Snake Oil

[retchdog]

A lot of people wrongly assume that reversing charges is one of the ways you get "bad" credit. That either you get dinged directly, or the credit card company puts you on a naughty list or something, for future note. Seriously!

Even after I explain to them, that it is one of the major reasons to have a CC and that the issuing bank is happy to find out which of their merchants are screw-ups, they only barely believe me. Financial superstition; two evils, together greater than the sum.

Re:Snake Oil

[Free the Cowards]

Probably because most people are clueless about their rights as credit card customers. People simply aren't aware that they can call their credit card company and get instant action on any fraudulent charge.

Re:Snake Oil

[HisMother]

Two guys peeing off a bridge. "The water's cold!" says the first. "And deep..." says the second.

Re:Snake Oil

[smashin234]

Actually they are more well known as "supplements" which fit into a nice little loophole in our system.

There are many cases of supplements causing health issues and the cases have been going on for quite some time. Since supplements do not require "evaluation by the FDA" they can claim just about anything as long as there is some thread of truth to it. And remember, that long term health effects have not been studied by ANY supplement, and since this is the case, you should always be careful with supplements and ALWAYS talk to a doctor first.

Doctors will probably not know, but its better then letting the commercial decide for you. At least an educated person who can NOT disclose what you talked to them about will give you some advice verses some well-scripted commercial.

As for smiling Bob, if you notice the commercials they never once state "this will make your dick bigger". Its assumed by innuendo. They claim "male enhancement" which can mean just about anything. Maybe you will lose weight, or maybe you will have more energy...but there are millions of ways you can interpret those commercials which was what really bothered me about the commercials in the first place. However, the innuendo was so strong that you had to think they were claiming their product increases dick size.

Which is only part of the problem to begin with. Supplements need tighter restraints to begin with.

Re:Snake Oil

[clarkkent09]

Just google the name of just about any product on late night infomercials + scam. Typically in minutes you can find out how the scam operates. Simple ones seem to be the most common, i.e. give a "free" sample and get their credit card details for a small shipping charge or whatever, and once you have their credit card details you can pretty much go crazy with it. First you hope the don't notice the extra charges, then if they do notice good luck finding a phone number that someone actually answers, finally you can always say they ordered stuff over the phone that they didn't. Works for computer lessons, various "health" products (more embarrassing the problem the better), lessons on getting rich with real estate etc.

Frankly, you do have to be a bit of an idiot not to see the scam from a mile away, but just because you're an idiot doesn't make it ok for those guys to defraud you. Good to see a long prison sentence for one of those jerks, hopefully that friendly bold guy who teaches you "how to run the computer" will be next.

Re:Snake Oil

[Covener]

Two guys peeing off a bridge. "The water's cold!" says the first. "And deep..." says the second.

I've heard it as two Texans, and the punchline was "and the bottom sure is muddy".

Re:Snake Oil

[reboot246]

I wouldn't know, either. Some guys will walk up and stick it in a woman. I stick it in and then walk up.

Re:Snake Oil

[dubl-u]

I can't blame people quite as much for not understanding how to do proper research on something, or knowing signs of a scam.

Further, we here at Slashdot, who are probably biased heavily to the educated, analytical, and practical, will always see through more of the scams. A scam artist in it for the money only has incentive to improve things to the point where it fools enough of the population to get money.

Not only do they have no need to make their scam better, but there's probably a disincentive. If I got scammed on something, I'd be livid, and I'd have the time, money, and skills to try to get the cops involved. Going after the bottom quartile is not only easier, but probably safer.

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

Bullshit. Some things are definitely not bigger in Texas...

Re:Snake Oil

[shaitand]

'And remember, that long term health effects have not been studied by ANY supplement'

This is not true. In fact, to qualify the exemption herbal supplements have to have a well established history of safe use (which is not the same as a clinical study, but does preclude a clinical study either).

Simply because supplements are not required to have a long term study to back them does not mean that none do.

For example, willow bark can be sold as a supplement. It's active components are backed by long term clinical studies and it has been used in medicine for thousands of years and thus qualifies for exemption from FDA evaluation. You might be more familiar with the extract form that has been evaluated by the FDA, known as Asprin.

Smiling bob is a con man, but that doesn't mean there aren't numerous supplements out there that aren't FDA evaluated and are very effective. For instance, those who fell for the smiling bob line might look to horny goat weed. It doesn't make you bigger, it increases blood flow which may make you appear bigger and makes it easier to get an erection. In fact, it works in the same manner as and is roughly comparable to Viagra... without the FDA induced price tag.

Re:Snake Oil

[ScrewMaster]

If I got scammed on something, I'd be livid, and I'd have the time, money, and skills to try to get the cops involved.

If I got scammed, I'd be mad at myself.

That said, I'd still go to the cops.

Re:Snake Oil

[couchslug]

"Trying to convince the religious that their religion is a sham is next to impossible.
Trying to convince the poor that they can become rich overnight is easy."

Joel Osteen might agree with you:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1533448,00.html

Re:Snake Oil

[Joebert]

I hope you don't wear glasses.

Re:Snake Oil

[LifesABeach]

Memo to Mr.Warshak, if the soap falls, keep on walking...

Re:Snake Oil

[MarkvW]

The credit card company makes money off these transaction . . .

Re:Snake Oil

[Joebert]

The Vagina is indeed a powerfull being.

Re:Snake Oil

[domatic]

The version I heard had them peeing off a building. The first one exclaims "3rd floor!" as the other one is hopping from foot to foot. "What are you doing ?!?" asked the first one.

"Dodging traffic!"

Re:Snake Oil

[Lord_Breetai]

This is where single use credit card numbers come in handy.

Re:Snake Oil

[ScrewMaster]

Probably because most people are clueless about their rights as credit card customers. People simply aren't aware that they can call their credit card company and get instant action on any fraudulent charge.

Yes and no. Last January I had a substantial amount in fraudulent charges racked up on a credit card. All car rentals (same $45.80 charge over and over) at three car rental places, same company but in other states, all on the same day. So, I call up and explain the situation, got through to a fraud officer. He was very cooperative, had no problem admitting the charges were obviously fraudulent or erroneous (I mean, I'd have had to have rented about fifty cars to have been responsible for them.) Now, about a year earlier they'd had an (ahem) "security problem" and had proactively sent me a new card with a new number. What amazed this guy was that all the rental charges had been made with the old number which (as he said) "should have been impossible." So he wrote them off just like that. At this point, all is fine.

Six months later, after what they called a "reasonable investigation", these bastards put all the charges back on my card without warning, including a whole bunch of penalties. So my card is way the hell above its limit now, and they go and charge me overlimit and late fees. I'm completely unaware of this until I tried to pay for dinner one evening, and the thing came back "denied". Then I get a letter saying that they'd put the charges back because I had "activated my new card from my home address in Iowa (I haven't been to Iowa since 1973) at some phone number I've never heard of, because I was "obviously trying to defraud the company." That did it for me ... I called up and told them that they had one, and only one chance to make good on this before I sued them for everything they owed me plus the damage to my credit rating because they'd already reported me. I then found out that the rental company's auditing system had already reversed all the charges anyway!

After multiple conversations with their fraud department, they agreed to perform another investigation. In the meantime, I got issued another card and a new number. I'd been a fifteen year customer of this particular card, and never had a problem before. To say I was pissed off is an understatement.

After a few weeks, they completed their second investigation (I think performed by someone not in India this time, like the first one was.) Needless to say, I don't use that card anymore. Not that I expect any better from other issuers: how can you tell how a company handles their internal security, and how they treat customer relations, until something bad happens?

Re:Snake Oil

[Kaenneth]

Restraints in their advertising and promotion maybe...

Turmeric, a spice, basically gave me my life back from crippling arthritis (seriously, I was on social security because I couldn't physically do my software programming job anymore, which is about the physically easiest job there is.)

If 'supplements' were even more controlled, I might never been able to return to work.

Fraud is Fraud, it dosn't matter if it's about nutrition, making money, identidy theft (What pisses me off about identity theft is that the banks allow it to hurt their customers, instead of dealing with it themselves.) or just wasting your time.

Re:Snake Oil

[reboot246]

I'm actually blind and just go by smell.

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

How do people suspend their critical thinking enough to believe these things? Snake oil has been around forever, it looks like it's not going away any time soon.

They suspend it and pray that the government will protect them from their own stupidity. The more that people insist that the government needs to protect them the more people seem to do really stupid things.

The government should be there to protect rights of people and almost nothing else, it should not be there to apply common sense or to be a babysitter (content controls on TV proposed for games etc).

Look at it this way, given the governments track record do you really trust them to do your thinking for you? Sadly many people complain about the government then demand they do their thinking for them.

Re:Snake Oil

[PC and Sony Fanboy]

that is only a problem if you insist on buying pants that are too small...

Re:Snake Oil

[Free the Cowards]

Well, you did get instant action. It was just followed up with more, negative action....

Your experience is pretty atypical from what I know of. I've never really experienced credit card fraud departments directly. The closest I've come was one card where the card company caught the fraud themselves, and automatically cancelled my card and gave me a new one. This was a bit stupid on their part because they forgot to actually tell me about this so I was very surprised one day when my card quit working, but there's a reason I always carry several.

But more importantly, even though you went through a lot of crap that you shouldn't have, you still won out in the end, and you still had a lot of options left at that point. The great thing about credit cards is that they only get your money when you give it to them. So whenever you're defrauded or the company screws you over, you are the one with the money and therefore you are the one with the power. If they try to screw you over, they still have to convince you to actually pay the mistaken charges and fees. You may take a hit on your credit score by refusing to pay, but even then you should (should!) be able to get that removed by explaining the situation to the credit agencies, and even if you can't it's still a small price to pay.

This is, incidentally, why I never use a debit card. With a debit card the money comes straight out of your bank account leaving your bank with the money and the power.

Re:Snake Oil

[reboot246]

Turmeric is fantastic for joint pain. I use it for my arthritis. My doctor also has me on several other supplements such as Omega-3 fish oil. So, some supplements are legitimate and do work. I do wish there was some kind of quality control so that we'd know what we're buying is the real thing.

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

... There actually are drugs that can decrease wrinkles, increase hair growth, or keep you awake when you should be asleep...

Yeah, cocaine!
Only if it could enlarge your penis and enhance your appetite...

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

Weed is good, horny is good, but goats?

Re:Snake Oil

[Joebert]

I guess that makes sense, I hear a lack of blood flow can really screw with your vision.

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

A guy walks up to a urinal to take a piss and whips out his unit. He can't help but look over at the guy on his right, a dreadlocked Jamaican dude, and is astonished to see that he has a tattoo on his penis that says "WY".

"Hey, we've got the same tattoo!" he says, pointing down. The Jamaican looks over, and sure enough the first guy also has "WY" tattooed on his penis.

"Of course you can't see the whole thing," says the first guy, "when I'm, uh, at my best, it reads 'Wendy'. That's my girlfriend's name!"

"That's cool mon, real cool" says the Jamaican dude. There is a brief pause.

"So, what does yours say?" asks the first guy.

"Mine says, 'Welcome to Jamaica mon, have a nice day'!"

Re:Snake Oil

[PsychoElf]

I've heard Snake Oil is a great lubricant for it though.

Re:Snake Oil

[Kymermosst]

For example, willow bark can be sold as a supplement. It's active components are backed by long term clinical studies and it has been used in medicine for thousands of years and thus qualifies for exemption from FDA evaluation. You might be more familiar with the extract form that has been evaluated by the FDA, known as Asprin.

Incorrect. Aspirin is not an extract of willow bark. The extract from willow bark that you refer to is salicylic acid. Asprin is acetosalicylic acid and was first produced by chemical alteration of salicylic acid. (Aspirin is metabolized by the body into salicylic acid).

Re:Snake Oil

[Joebert]

!!!

You're a fucking genius.

Re:Snake Oil

[whoop]

Perhaps is something related to all the media "pressuring" women to lose weight. I never understood the mentality myself, but the TV shows say it's these magazines fault, so whatever.

Perhaps this is the same sort of mind game going on with men. If we get baraged with enough ads for these products, the more it might sink in and create some doubt about ourselves.

I recently saw a documentary where they tested some of these penis enlargement systems (creams, suction device, etc). Given that the average male erect penis is 5.5 inches, the three test subjects they used all thought of themselves as having small penises. The funny thing (to me) was that they measured beforehand, and they were 5, 6, and 6.5 inches. Even though they were right around the average size (and larger), they nonetheless felt very bad about their own image and wanted to be longer.

In the end, one of them (the suction device I think) wound up increasing that guy's penis slightly, while the other two did nothing.

Re:Snake Oil

[Grey Ninja]

Actually, I just consider it to be stupidity tax, and don't do it again.

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

Ever seen a merchant credit report? They are listed and it impacts negatively. Especially when the customer uses it as a return policy.

Re:Snake Oil

[Free the Cowards]

This reminds me of one instance where I was the victim of a very minor fraud.

I ordered from a somewhat shady company, and so used a one-time credit card number with a limit set exactly at my total bill.

A few days later I check my credit card online and, guess what, Shady Company has charged me $10 more for shipping than they said they would.

First thing I did was call my credit card company and ask how this was possible. Oh, they said, we always allow for up to 10% excess because people forget about shipping charges and such....

Frickin idiots!

I was able to get my $10 back, and it only cost me four separate calls to Shady Company and about an hour of my time. (I was nearly ready to resort to the Dreaded Chargeback when they finally gave me my refund.) But still, if the one-time-use card number had done what it was supposed to have done, that would have been an hour of my time that I wouldn't have had to waste.

Re:Snake Oil

[lysergic.acid]

life is all about learning from experience. everyone makes mistakes at some point in their life. you just hope that as you get older, you start making them less often. so i wouldn't blame the victim for being scammed.

however, i do get frustrated with people who continue to give business to spam sites or fall for classic e-mail scams. if people would just wise up then we wouldn't have such a big problem with junk/spam e-mails anymore. i think that's one particular case of a small group of stupid people ruining things for everyone else.

Re:Snake Oil

[retchdog]

Yes, that's true, but they also have contracts with sellers (who are screwed just as bad (or as good) as consumers are overall). Enough complaints, and the system gets good feedback about what retailers are shit, and can act on this accordingly.

Re:Snake Oil

[retchdog]

I have, and mine aren't. Of course I only use it in clear cases of fraud or obvious mistakes (so far once each).

Yes, of course an abusive use of the policy is and should be noted.

I would suspect that overturning charges on Enzyte-scam-"goods" once in your life would not be an abuse (and hopefully once is all it takes). For one, it is law that customers can return any goods received by mail, within 30 days. I wouldn't know, I was smart enough to at least avoid this scam. :)

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

heh, i'm small small, barely 3 inches hard. i lick real good so my girlfriends don't seem to mind :D

Re:Snake Oil

[afidel]

The FDA induced price tag is there because they ostensibly make sure that the product and process are safe and effective and that any negative consequences are well documented. This is not at all true for supplements. While there are some supplements that are effective the industry as a whole is largely ineffective (see the history of medicine men before modern science got involved).

Re:Snake Oil

[shiftless]

Good to see a long prison sentence for one of those jerks, hopefully that friendly bold guy who teaches you "how to run the computer" will be next.

Your post intrigued me so I did a brief google search:

http://www.infomercialscams.com/scams/video_professor

I have seen these infomercials, but I didn't know they were scams. Then again, I have never ordered anything from any of them either.

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

As a daily witness to the abuses of the 'Medical' Industry, I would wish that EVERYONE views the Pharmaceutical AND Medical Practices with the same sort of skepticism that 'Smilin Bob' has presented. Although there are legitimate members of both communities, there are ALOT of members (on both sides) that play on your slightest wants, wishes, and fears about one's health and 'wellness'. The results being anything but beneficial to health and wallet. End advice: Turn off the TV and turn on your ad-blocker!

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the same as text message subscription scams. You see an add, like for 'text message 12345 for a great joke for free' but miss the tiny text somewhere on the web page or tv ad that says you are being subscribed and will receieve a new next message every day for 3.99 and must text message 'STOP' to the same number to unsubscribe.

God, how when I worked for Cingular so many people would claim they didn't subscribe to such crap, when that's the only possible way.

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, don't feel badly - you can get breast reduction surgery for those manboobs now.

HTH. HAND.

Re:Snake Oil

[witherstaff]

At my family plumbing shop a customer had us install a new Kohler toilet. The next day the client called to request a new fixture be put in. The client, an older distinguished gentleman, wouldn't give a reason at first. After a longer discussion he finally gave the reason of 'when I sit down, my testicles touch the water'. The best part? His name was Mr. Float.

Re:Snake Oil

[shaitand]

The FDA induced price tag is there because they INTEND to make sure the product and process are safe and effective. History has shown they often fall far short of the mark, and FDA approved compounds rank among some of the more dangerous substances known to man.

'While there are some supplements that are effective the industry as a whole is largely ineffective'

This is simply false. There are a few duds out there, and there are certainly plenty of 'formulas' that you will overpay for but there are thousands of very effective supplements. Walk into GNC and the man at the counter will not only show you effective supplements but will be happy to let you know what studies have been done on the effects of the supplement in question.

Most of those FDA approved drugs are slight modifications to chemicals found in supplements (for the most part the alterations only serve to make them patentable).

Re:Snake Oil

[Naturalis Philosopho]

Pun intended?

Re:Snake Oil

[Triv]

Two guys peeing off a bridge. "The water's cold!" says the first. "And deep..." says the second.

Give credit where it's due - that's a Richard Pryor joke.

Re:Snake Oil

[Naturalis Philosopho]

Would you like to buy this bridge I happen to hold a very official looking deed to?

Re:Snake Oil

[SeNtM]

Snake Oil is a term of the 1800s...I vote for a new term...Penis Oil. Sounds a little more appropriate in the world of Enzyte, Extenze and friends.

Re:Snake Oil

[Miseph]

But alas, it shrinks your penis, lessens appetite, and drains your wallet.

The paranoid delusions are a real hoot, too.

Re:Snake Oil

[Verteiron]

Quit bitching and just knot it around your waist like the rest of us :)

Re:Snake Oil

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

I vote for Crap. It's easy enough for most lay people to understand, even smart, nerdy lay people.

Re:Snake Oil

[Joebert]

Nope.

Re:Snake Oil

[Fulcrum of Evil]

I dunno, the bottom quartile frequently has anger problems and doesn't always think things through - piss them off and one of them will do something stupid and violent.

Re:Snake Oil

[Canar]

...we here at Slashdot, who are probably biased heavily to the educated, analytical, and practical...

Welcome to Slashdot. You must be new here.

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

At which point we both collapsed laughing.

Ha ha! That loser didn't have a saggy ballsack!

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

Wonder how many envious moderators there are in this topic.

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

drugs that can decrease wrinkles

Isn't that Enzyte was for?

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

How do people suspend their critical thinking enough to believe these things?

Two letters: T.V.

Does this work for the internet, too? I'm worried -- there's this ThinkGeek ad that keeps popping up as I read Slashdot. It's for a device that promises "More flexible screwing".

Is this a scam? They sell a lot of kinky-looking shit on that site. Are they reputable?

I'm a little less flexible when screwing than I used to be. Should I send a video of one of my screwing sessions to one of those internet doctors for a confidential, professional evaluation of my flexibility before purchasing the device?

Re:Snake Oil

[Maudib]

Get an Amex. I have never ever had them do anything other then remove a charge once disputed. It doesn't even require a phone call, you do it online. They are worth every cent of their annual fee.

Re:Snake Oil

[OrangeTide]

My religion considers breast reduction a form of blasphemy.

Re:Snake Oil

[arth1]

Indeed. It's part of human nature to be trusting and gullible. But it's also part of human nature to learn from your mistakes.
Someone being defrauded more than once, on the other hand, lacks the ability to learn, and should probably should be put in an institution to protect her from the rest of the world.

A problem with learning from experience is exploited by the biggest scam of them all -- organized religion promising a way to cheat death. The problem is that you can't ascertain that it's a scam before you die and your soul/ka/me doesn't survive -- and at that point you're dead.

Of course, some of us are paranoid to start with, and not easily scammed. Yet we tend to get scammed into working as sysadmins.

Re:Snake Oil

[ikeman32]

How do people suspend their critical thinking enough to believe these things? Snake oil has been around forever, it looks like it's not going away any time soon.

I believe that it was P.T. Barnum that said it best, "There is a sucker born every minute." Now I have some ocean front property in Arizona for sale anyone interested?

Re:Snake Oil

[Brickwall]

People with little dicks will do anything for a cure.

Sure glad I didn't fall for.. oh those? They're not mine. Never seen them before.

Re:Snake Oil

[houghi]

Trying to convince the poor that they can become rich overnight is easy.

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

Where/how do you get a one time use cc? That sounds very useful!

Re:Snake Oil

[stretch0611]

...and I'd have the time, money, and skills to try to get the cops involved."

So you would be willing to go into a police station and make a report claiming you have a small penis?

Re:Snake Oil

[houghi]

That is why I use my created credit card number for a fixed amount for purchases where I am not in direct physical contact with the vendor. This means purchases over the phone and also via Internet.

Say I want to buy ScamMe for 1EUR, I will make a card with the maximum amount of 1EUR and use that to pay. If they then want to retrieve more money, they get a blank. Also in b
Belgium (and most of Europe) the laws are in favor of the end-user and not of the company.

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

You clearly don't understand the problem. That says more about you than the GP. :)

Re:Snake Oil

[cherokee158]

Further, we here at Slashdot, who are probably biased heavily to the educated, analytical, and practical, will always see through more of the scams.

...because we here at Slashdot never fall for bogus news articles, inflated claims by hardware manufacturers, or the promise of yet another best programming language ever.

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not the only possible way.

I know, because I started getting texts like that, and I'd never sent an outgoing text. To anyone.

It's funny, I had Cingular. They were pretty good about the whole thing---they were quite willing to refund me the fees and put a block on all premium SMS services.

Consider this: it's possible to get 'subscribed' to that sort of scam online. Say, by downloading a 'free' ringtone. In other words, it can be done without sending an outgoing text, and without performing any actions which Cingular would be capable of vetting.

Go look at jamster.com, you'll see what I mean. They, incidentally, were the ones billing me $9.95 two or three times a day, unasked.

These are not exactly honest people we're talking about, and, since they can initiate billing without the victim having passed any sort of confirmation through Cingular's system...

What, pray tell, is to stop them from simply generating random numbers and claiming those people registered online? Most users won't even notice, and the cell companies do tend to make it a hassle to get the charges refunded.

As long as the scammers don't set up so many completely fraudulent accounts as to make the cell companies refuse to process their premium SMS fees, it's basically just free extra money. They don't even have to deal with the customer if they get caught!

I have no proof that the scammers do this, and I'm not sure it was the problem in my case. But it's something to bear in mind when saying things like:

"God, how when I worked for Cingular so many people would claim they didn't subscribe to such crap, when that's the only possible way."

By the by, the reason Cingular was willing, in the end, to refund my money---it was a new number. The previous owner cancelled their contract.

Because they were getting billed $9.95, several times a day, for unwanted jamster spam. Cingular never bothered to tell jamster to stop before reissuing the number. Or perhaps they did, and jamster simply ignored them.

The cell phone companies get a cut of every premium SMS charge. The scammers make vast sums for no real service. The customers get shafted. I guess the CSR's just get lied to.

Re:Snake Oil

[hellop2]

I don't get it.

From your link: "the superendowed drifters taking a whiz from a bridge with joints so long they could kiss the sky or touch the river, making one proclaim, âoeSay, the whatter cold.â His obviously longer friend comments, âoeYeah, and it deep, too!â"

Now I'm confused even more. Were they smoking joints or is joint another word for penis? How do you know the temperature of a river when peeing in it from a bridge? Does knowing the depth of water mean you have a large penis? Their dicks were long enough to dangle in the river but one guy's dick was so long it went deep into the river? If so, why bother peeing off a bridge when you could just pee anywhere and still be peeing like 20 feet away from you?

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

I hate those west coast american toilets. Its like sitting over a lake. Does Los Angeles really have so much water? Although the other extreme (german/dutch) ones are worse.

Re:Snake Oil

[umghhh]

this way, i.e. only as well as it is needed, of doing things is common in any other part of economy.

Problem here was with people ashamed of coming out (of their cellars?) and complain due feared impression of small-dickness - that made the fraud much more difficult to prosecute because there were hardly any witnesses.

Re:Snake Oil

[indifferent children]

So you would be willing to go into a police station and make a report claiming you have a small penis?

Thanks to the backscatter x-ray machine at the station entrance, going in to report anything will let them know if you have a small penis.

Re:Snake Oil

[indifferent children]

The $49.99 deposit that I put down on Duke Nukem Forever was money well spent. And the fact that those were superior 1990 dollars just makes me more 1337 than those of you who will pay with 2012 dollars (or Euros, if 3D Realms refuses to accept dollars)!

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

My excursion into online porn age verification by credit card was a thing like that. The connection broke down after me supplying my data, so I never actually received (or used) the promised password or any "you signed up for ..." small print. A month later, $49.99 are booked off my credit card from a Senorainc.com. Just great. I protest at my credit card company and at the company itself, giving screenshots and saying that there has been no use of the facility and no information about the booking.

The credit card company cancels the payment. And the scammer _also_ books back the amount after my detailed protest. The credit card service line tells me "hey, if they don't complain, why should you?".

So I am in the position to have made a net profit from the online porn business.

So I quit while I was ahead.

Re:Snake Oil

[192939495969798999]

That's funny, I have a WY tattoo like that, but it starts off "When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary,", etc. and ends with some guy "Elbridge Gerry"'s signature. Gives yo' momma something to read for an hour, etc. etc.

Re:Snake Oil

[Teun]

It's clear you need some snake oil.

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

I used to believe that too, until my doctor informed me at 13 that humans do not have a middle leg, and that rash would go away once I stop walking on it. And, yes, I'm from Dallas.

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

How is this any different than the pharmaceutical companies?

Doesn't Pfizer prey on the sexual inadequacies of consumers?

I mean this is nothing compared to what else is going on.

Re:Snake Oil

[Poltras]

I thought he was talking about egos...

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

The best part? His name was Mr. Float.

I bet his first name was Bob, too.

Re:Snake Oil

[Poltras]

And why there are so much anonymous cowards talking about penis size. Just askin...

Re:Snake Oil

[elrous0]

Anyone who thinks that a pill is going to make Mr. Wang any bigger probably shouldn't be allowed to have money in the first place.

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd have the time, money, and skills to try to get the cops involved.

There is something seriously wrong in what you just said.

Re:Snake Oil

[Pharmboy]

Bullshit. Some things are definitely not bigger in Texas...

Obviously, the sense of humor is bigger than whereever you are.

Re:Snake Oil

[metlin]

Well, if you have a tattoo on your penis that says "mon" then the other guy should probably walk away, very slowly...

Re:Snake Oil

[sm62704]

I wish mine were smaller! There are no advantages whatever to having a big dick, and quite a few disadvantages.

It's really gross sitting on the toilet and having it hang into the water. Some toilets were obviously designed either by women or by men with small penises. It's hard ti shit whan you have to be careful keeping your dick dry.

A big cock is harder it get in, especially if she's got an extra tight vagina. If she's got a really tight pussy it's likely to be uncomfortable for both. As Mojo Nixon put in in Tie My Pecker To My Leg, "I need a woman that's six feet ten, she gotta be that tall so's I can get it all in". Some women not only have tight ones, but you hit her back wall.

My ex-wife had an IUD, and the damned thing poked me in the dick.

Since it takes more blood to tumesce, erectile dysfunction is more likely.

You can't wear cutoffs or it's likely to hang out the leg of your shorts. This can be embarrassing.

You can never get good head, not even from a toothless woman.

And it's not going to get you laid. She's not going to know you have a big dick unless another woman's told her you do. And even then, technique counts for much more than size.

The only advantage to having a big dick is you don't have to buy an SUV or a Harley.

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

I want to know why these guys are pissing on some little boy's "My First Farmyard" toyset.

Re:Snake Oil

[randyest]

He said merchant credit report. As in, how the credit card companies view a merchant, not a consumer. Chargebacks (in sufficient quantity and/or frequency) reflect poorly on a merchant, but not a consumer.

Re:Snake Oil

[randyest]

Why "Dreaded Chargeback?" I sure don't dread it, it's awesome. I complain once. I give them a week or two to fix it. If they don't, they get a chargeback. Screw wasting hours of my time on the phone begging and arguing. Fix it or get a chargeback. Simple, easy, effective.

Re:Snake Oil

[drsmithy]

Even after I explain to them, that it is one of the major reasons to have a CC and that the issuing bank is happy to find out which of their merchants are screw-ups, they only barely believe me. Financial superstition; two evils, together greater than the sum.

Probably because most people are used to banks screwing them at every turn and are, therefore, highly suspicious when a bank appears _not_ to be doing so.

Re:Snake Oil

[kabocox]

If I got scammed on something, I'd be livid, and I'd have the time, money, and skills to try to get the cops involved.

If I got scammed, I'd be mad at myself.
That said, I'd still go to the cops.

When I finally start up selling snake oil or religion for profit ala Ron Hubbard, I'm going to have to use exercise as a condition for rewards to the after life or for what ever the snake oil is to activate. If you haven't been properly exercising daily for the past month, my snake oil won't work on you. If you haven't committed the past decade to exercising properly, you ain't getting in that afterlife.

So far, I'm not getting into that afterlife either. ;) I think that I'd be fairly safe from the cops and medical community. What are they going to say that exercise is bad for you if it is for religious reasons or with a placebo?

Re:Snake Oil

[Free the Cowards]

With a couple of my credit cards, I get one-time CC numbers by signing on to their web site, then clicking the option for it. It's often called by a silly marketing name, like "ShopSafe" or "Virtual Account Number". I put in a couple of options, like a dollar limit and a time limit, then it generates a number and displays it on the screen for me. Not all credit cards offer this kind of thing, so ask your card company and ask around if you're signing up for a new one. It will depend on the individual issuer, not just Visa/MasterCard/whatever.

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

The closest to "Quality Control" is to go with a well known and respected brand for the maker of the Vitamin/Supplement (when you can).

They have more to lose by having poor quality control, and most of them try to hold themselves to higher standards, so you're at least sure you're getting what you pay for (whether it does what you want it to is a different question).

Companies like "Nature's Gate", "Solgar", etc. have been in business for decades providing supplements.

Re:Snake Oil

[Free the Cowards]

Dreaded for them, not for me. It's a powerful tool, like threatening to sue, or to call the police. Chargebacks are painful for merchants, costing a lot of money and, if they get too many, costing their ability to accept credit cards at all. It's a very big stick and so I don't like to use it until smaller sticks have definitively failed.

Re:Snake Oil

[kabocox]

As for smiling Bob, if you notice the commercials they never once state "this will make your dick bigger". Its assumed by innuendo. They claim "male enhancement" which can mean just about anything. Maybe you will lose weight, or maybe you will have more energy...but there are millions of ways you can interpret those commercials which was what really bothered me about the commercials in the first place. However, the innuendo was so strong that you had to think they were claiming their product increases dick size.

I must be clueless. I saw the commercial and was like WTF are they trying to sell! I couldn't figure it out at all and didn't think that the answer would please me if I googled it so I left it alone. Now, I find the answer on slashdot. Oh fun.

Here is a question do those feet scrapper things actually work or are they scams? I'm just highly curious on that one. That's got to be the grossest commercial that I've ever seen, and I hoped that product was really worked. There are days that I think all TV commercials need to be FDA approved.

Re:Snake Oil

[dubl-u]

I'd have the time, money, and skills to try to get the cops involved.

There is something seriously wrong in what you just said.

That's true, but maybe not in the way you think. I can afford to hire a lawyer to help me sort out the best way to go after them. And maybe even an investigator to collect more details.

Re:Snake Oil

[dubl-u]

...because we here at Slashdot never fall for bogus news articles, inflated claims by hardware manufacturers, or the promise of yet another best programming language ever.

I said, more, not all. And you'll note a characteristic of those scams is novelty, while some of the classic scams like fortune-tellers and three-card monte are centuries old. We're definitely a harder audience to scam.

Re:Snake Oil

[randyest]

Ah, I see.

I think you were too generous (or your time isn't as limited as mine.) "four separate calls to Shady Company and about an hour of my time" seems unreasonable effort to reclaim $10 from a blatantly shady company that clearly and certainly tried to rip you off. I'd say one call (10 minutes max, no arguing) and one week are plenty of opportunity for them to avoid a chargeback in that case. YMMV :)

Re:Snake Oil

[Hoi Polloi]

Hope springs eternal.

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

People with little dicks will do anything for a cure.

Yeah, but shouldn't they be content with a humongous pickup or SUV as compensation?

Re:Snake Oil

[phi1365]

Why do Women control the world? They control 50% of the Money and 100% of the vagina.

Re:Snake Oil

[hellop2]

No, it's clear you need to put a joint in your mouth and suck it.

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps also part of the problem is that we have been trained by the pharmaceutical industry. Not only do their products promise everything, but they also can fail to deliver as well (and I am not just talking about that long list of side-effects). Who else gets to release products the company knows will KILL some of their customers?

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

When I was being fraudulently billed by Sympatico (Canadian DSL service) I talked to Visa about cancelling that card and having a new one issued.

The reps response was that it wouldn't matter. Any charges made against the old card number would happily be forwarded by them to my new card, whether the charges were legit or not.

what a pain in the ass.

Re:Snake Oil

[zdickinson]

I tried the stuff, didn't work. It was pretty plain that I signed up for auto payment when I got the free sample. When it didn't work all I had to do was send an e-mail requesting to cancel. I received a confirmation e-mail within 24 hours. No biggie.

Re:Snake Oil

[ForCripeSake]

It may be a different company, but there is another male enhancement pill which claims to "increase the size of that certain male organ." I would love to see a class action lawsuit on behalf of 74 customers with extremely engorged Adam's apples.

Re:Snake Oil

[Rockoon]

HEAD UP! Apply it to the foreskin!
HEAD UP! Apply it to the foreskin!
HEAD UP! Apply it to the foreskin!

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

I always found it interesting how the Girls Gone Wild commercials that absolutely saturate Comedy Central from sundown to sunup, always have a plain disclaimer in the middle of the commercial saying "Then you'll automatically be subscribed to receive yadda yadda every month." Yet they announce it in such a way that it can easily slip below the radar, given the duration of the commercial and the fact that it's porn after all. It's neat that you sometimes don't even have to hide such a disclaimer in small print (or in the case of a television commercial, white text on white background in small font) and people will still not remember seeing it.

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

...and then you woke up.

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, from what I understand, credit cards are far more regulated than debit cards in matters of dispute resolution and fraud.

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

At the weapons-grade levels of innuendo they were using, there's no way they'd be able to claim in court that they were not making such a promise - I can't imagine any judge letting them slide on that. Which I guess is a component of this story, although I wish the article was clearer in explaining what exactly they did.

Re:Snake Oil

[DamnStupidElf]

This is simply false. There are a few duds out there, and there are certainly plenty of 'formulas' that you will overpay for but there are thousands of very effective supplements. Walk into GNC and the man at the counter will not only show you effective supplements but will be happy to let you know what studies have been done on the effects of the supplement in question.

Ah, which supplement should I take to deal with a staph infection then? How about strep throat? What about yeast infections? Anti-seizure supplements? Any supplement that will keep me from getting chicken pox, polio, rubella, hpv, measles, or tuberculosis?

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

Turmeric, a spice, basically gave me my life back from crippling arthritis (seriously, I was on social security because I couldn't physically do my software programming job anymore, which is about the physically easiest job there is.) If 'supplements' were even more controlled, I might never been able to return to work.

I don't follow you. Turmeric is very easy to buy. Many asian stores sell it fresh (it's a rhizome like ginger).

Re:Snake Oil

[shaitand]

Garlic, Cranberries, and Vitamin D will help with most of those.

That said, nobody claimed that there are supplements to cure every ailment or that they supplant prescription medications. I only stated the simple fact that for every crazy diet pill or magic penis pill there are thousands of legitimate and effective supplements.

The next time you see a monstrous muscle bound tank that is larger than a human can be 15 years ago, keep in mind that the difference between him and the body builder of 15 years ago is the same supplements you are claiming should be thrown in with snake oil. I think body builders would beg to differ.

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

I must now quote the late, great Richard Pryor who told this joke in the 70's. It was a side-track joke in the clip "Little Feets" from the album "Was it something I said?"

I'll have to P.C. it up a little though.

The 2 "guys" with the biggest dicks in the world was looking for somewhere to have their con-test. But they wudden no freaks or nuthin', they didn't want everybody lookin'. They were walking across the Golden Gate bridge and one of the "guys" saw that water, and it made him want to piss. So, he whips his dick out and starts pissing, the other whips his out and starts pissing, and the first one says "Damn, that water's cold", and the other says "Yeah, and it's deep too!"

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

"My ex-wife had an IUD, and the damned thing poked me in the dick."

I call BS. Unless your penis actually made it through the millimeters-wide opening of the cervix and into the uterus. It's not called an "intra-uterine device" for nothing.

Re:Snake Oil

[retchdog]

That's what I originally thought he meant, but it didn't make much sense to me as a reply.

In that case, I should have said "Good! I'm no friend of merchants either."

Re:Snake Oil

[Atario]

I can't blame people quite as much for not understanding how to do proper research on something, or knowing signs of a scam.

Sounds like a lot of work for a lot of people. If only there were some kind of ofFicially-DesignAted group of people whose job it was to do all that work for us, and to make sure they cover every product that goes in our bodies, and prevent the crap from even being sold, so we wouldn't have to worry about it.

Re:Snake Oil

[NotBornYesterday]

There are strings that hang down through the opening in the cervix. Although I've never slept with a woman who used an IUD, and I don't have a problem of his apparent, ahem, magnitude, I can imagine it would be uncomfortable to repeatedly poke something foreign in there with the most sensitive section of my body.

Re:Snake Oil

[againjj]

A big cock is harder it get in, especially if she's got an extra tight vagina. If she's got a really tight pussy it's likely to be uncomfortable for both. As Mojo Nixon put in in Tie My Pecker To My Leg, "I need a woman that's six feet ten, she gotta be that tall so's I can get it all in". Some women not only have tight ones, but you hit her back wall.

It is not only uncomfortable for the man, but can be for the woman too. You alluded to this above, but I will say it outright: different women are laid out differently. The uterus can be in a variety of positions, and can be higher or lower as well. This means a longer penis can contact what usually isn't contacted. While some writings can intimate a woman gets off by having their cervix hit, I know that at least some simply feel pain.

Re:Snake Oil

[reboot246]

Yes, that's what I do - go with the brands that have been in business for a long time and have the most to lose. Still, it'd be nice to know how much of a supplement I'm actually getting for my money.

Re:Snake Oil

[retchdog]

The FTC is considering taking anti-trust action against the bundling of so-called "over-draft protection" with consumer banking accounts. I hope it works out with a minimum of foolishness.

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a little dick, you insensitive clod!

Re:Snake Oil

[KGIII]

I should probably post this AC but, man, I understand...

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

True. Frank Sinatra had to buy special underwear to hide his giant schlong. Google "Sinatra underwear".

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

Here is a question do those feet scrapper things actually work or are they scams?

I've got one and it does work pretty well, but you have to go back and redo your feet once in a while. Don't buy it on-line or by phone, though. Just check your local Walgreens.

An alternative that worked for a friend was to go live in Hawaii for a couple of years and wade at one of the grittier beaches for an hour or so every day.

Re:Snake Oil

[Anonymous Coward]

However, the commercials are HILARIOUS, so whatever. I'm a female and completely agree that too big is very painful and I'd much rather be with a guy who's confident with himself, in every aspect, than insecure and resorting to some pill so he can feel like some penile superhero.

That being said, those commercials crack me up and I'd hate to see them go.

Re:Snake Oil

[sm62704]

It felt more like a wire than a string, and it wasn't just uncomfortable, it was downright painful -- a show stopper. I had to learn to position it correctly, or *ZAP* ouch, game over, no erection.

Re:Snake Oil

[Mr Z]

Sounds like he needs one of these.

Re:Snake Oil

[NotBornYesterday]

... shudder ...

Two words: the Pill.

Prison

[dopaz]

Perhaps his enzyte-enlarged member will make him the big man in prison.

Re:Prison

[suck_burners_rice]

Actually I think his tight... oh, never mind.

Re:Prison

[Anonymous Coward]

not true.

I took enzyte and had a 17" penis but it shrank all the way back down to 2.5" the day after I stopped taking the wonder pill.

By the time this guy gets to prison he will likely have shrunk back down to 1.5".

He is going to need to smuggle in the pill like cigarettes!

Re:Prison

[PsychoElf]

Well, by the time he gets out something else will be enlarged.

Re:Prison

[SIGBUS]

Then again, his cellmate just might have a sackful of pride...

Honestly

[youthoftoday]

Who else read 'Steve Wozniak' first time?

Re:Honestly

[Anonymous Coward]

I did too. That was a shocking 'reado.'

Re:Honestly

[Brymouse]

I did, holy fuck, I had images of him getting prison raped in my head.

Prison

[mrbah]

I'm sure he can't wait to meet some of his satisfied customers in prison. Except now, he'll be the one notifying his doctor about erections lasting longer than 4 hours.

totally unfair

[Anonymous Coward]

So he has to go to prison, and his 75 y/o mom stays free? Screw that! put her wrinkly ass in the pen too.

Re:totally unfair

[Anonymous Coward]

But she has cancer, don't you know, people with terminal conditions should automatically never be put in jail, and automatically vindicated from any crime they may have committed.

Re:totally unfair

[Anonymous Coward]

My cousin was murdered in 1995 and the guy who did it had colon cancer, with 6 months to live. Before going to trial, the judge ordered the case dismissed because he had less than 6 months to live and didn't want to be accused of being cruel. 13 years later, the guy is still alive and my cousin's three kids don't have their father. The perp was never made to answer for his crime, even though he still had the 44, registered to him, in his hand when the cops arrived on the scene.

Re:totally unfair

[Anonymous Coward]

My cousin was murdered in 1995 and the guy who did it had colon cancer, with 6 months to live. Before going to trial, the judge ordered the case dismissed because he had less than 6 months to live and didn't want to be accused of being cruel. 13 years later, the guy is still alive and my cousin's three kids don't have their father. The perp was never made to answer for his crime, even though he still had the 44, registered to him, in his hand when the cops arrived on the scene.

When I was 13 I would've hunted that guy down with a Louisville Slugger. Your cousin's kids aren't being raised right.

Re:totally unfair

[bl4ck5]

So he has to go to prison, and his 75 y/o mom stays free? Screw that! put her wrinkly ass in the pen too.

FTFA:

Warshak's mother, Harriet Warshak, was sentenced to two years in prison. She was convicted of conspiracy and other charges.

Re:totally unfair

[bigstrat2003]

No, they're being raised fine. Some people who think that violent retribution with a baseball bat is the answer, however... I can safely say that they weren't raised right.

Re:totally unfair

[domatic]

The problem here is that cancer or not he should have faced retribution from society. A sick guy commits murder and a judge doesn't call him on it because he's sick. Now I don't know about you but I think that is just sick and I'd have a hard time condemning someone who used a baseball bat in such a case. If on the jury, I'd find such a one guilty but would hang that sucker cold if anything other than token punishment were proposed.

Think about it. Would you truly feel so philosophical about it if someone near and dear to you were murdered and the murderer got off scott free on a sympathy vote?

Re:totally unfair

[bigstrat2003]

The problem here is that cancer or not he should have faced retribution from society.

I completely agree, but I don't think taking matters into your own hands is the answer.

Re:totally unfair

[domatic]

What pray tell is? We don't take matters into our own hands because society puts cooler heads in charge of doing something truly just. It doesn't always work perfectly but I agree with you that it is better than everyone running around wreaking revenge. There are Eastern European societies where half the town lives in hiding because extended families are carrying grudges. But in this case, society did absolutely nothing. This guy got a commit murder free card.

Just how philosophical are most of us going to be if it was our wife or kid? I could see condemning the bat wielder if anything at all was done. Say the guy got a light sentence or not found guilty. But here nothing. Not only has society completely failed, society refuses to rectify that failure. I suppose it is high-minded in some sense to just lump it but I'm just not seeing it.

Re:totally unfair

[magicchex]

Right, except he's being forced to report to prison during his appeals while she's being allowed to stay out during her appeals.

FTFA

Re:totally unfair

[Anonymous Coward]

No, they're being raised fine. Some people who think that violent retribution with a baseball bat is the answer, however... I can safely say that they weren't raised right.

Uhm no. Your kids are being raised to be sheep. The parent poster's kids are being raised to be wolves. Your kids will lie down and take it and do nothing in response. The wolves will eliminate the problem and/or exact their own justice. Then, the sheeple kids will bitch about how all girls seem to like the "bad boys".

If you haven't noticed lately, law enforcement and the justice system are growing more suspect by the day. Hurt one of my family and I'll zero your goddamned zip code if it isn't handled through "proper channels".

Re:totally unfair

[Hatta]

Why not? Sure it's not a good thing to have to take matters into your own hands, but when you've been through the system and it has failed you, where else will you find justice?

Re:totally unfair

[Caraig]

"I have grandchildren," she said. "The time I have left, I'd like to spend with them. I don't think it's fair to take me away from them."

All due respect to the elderly and the infirm, and to those with cancer -- a horrible ailment that regularly ravages tens of thousands of people a year -- but she is not in a position to say what is fair and what isn't. She is a criminal, she has been convicted and found to be guilty. To not punish her is an offense against justice.

Up until I read that line, I was sympathetic. Cancer, aging and ailing... no reason to put her behind bars since she's going to appeal anyway. But then she had to open her mouth and play that card. Yes, she has grandchildren. Her grandchildren can grow up knowing that Gran'ma was a con and a swindler, and to not do what she did.

*sigh* I don't know. It probably is cruel to put a con-artist of her age behind bars. And the punitive damages are being levied against the company as it is, there's not much more they can get from her.

Re:totally unfair

[Anonymous Coward]

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Internet_Tough_Guy

Re:totally unfair

[Anonymous Coward]

I dunno. You said yourself it wasn't fair. Letting some complete lowlife destroy your family and get away with it is completely wrong.

I'd Try for the Refund

[moehoward]

If you have the balls, but not the penis, to ask for the refund, go for it.

Not that I ever used their products...

Re:I'd Try for the Refund

[EdIII]

I would absolutely try for the refund too. It would be fucking HILARIOUS.

There would have to be notaries, witnesses, and doctors involved. Not to mention photographic evidence of said tiny penis and evidence that it was not a really really cold room.

All that attention for my penis? Priceless. Getting to enter that evidence into public record in a court case? Absolutely Priceless.

Re:I'd Try for the Refund

[Anonymous Coward]

Better then steroids ... where you have the penis, but no balls.

Re:I'd Try for the Refund

[Anonymous Coward]

If you have the balls, but not the penis, to ask for the refund, go for it.

Not that I ever used their products...

And I guarantee -- once they have the affidavit in hand, my refund was here overnight.

Question:

[larry bagina]

Why is this news for nerds, stuff that matters? Maybe ScuttleMonkey has a small penis and wasted money on these pills?

Re:Question:

[eclectro]

Why is this news for nerds, stuff that matters?

It's actually "news for nerds, size that matters." But not really. We all know that size doesn't matter, but getting out of the basement *does matter*.

Re:Question:

[Mistshadow2k4]

Because most nerds are men, and 90% of men are as insecure about their penis size as women are about their bodies in swimsuits. It's a gender thing.

Re:Question:

[Anonymous Coward]

It's an excuse for the penis jokes to come out on slashdot, roll with it man. That and "news for nerds, stuff that matters" is a pisstake of their own site. Everyone knows that

Re:Question:

[celtic_hackr]

Because Nerds are notorious for having a lack of sex appeal to actual women. This was their last best hope for anonymous BDOC drugs.

Damnit

[Anonymous Coward]

Damnit, I can't think of anything witty to say. Now how will I make up for my disproportionally small dick?

Re:Damnit

[Anonymous Coward]

Buy a corvette.

Re:Damnit

[Vexorian]

It wasn't working either when you could think of witty stuff to say...

Re:Damnit

[Patrik_AKA_RedX]

Personality! Oh, wait...

Three Words

[GameboyRMH]

Big Fucking SUV

I lold

[pieisgood]

:D need anything else be said?

Do the crime, Do the Time

[nickswitzer]

She had pleaded with the judge not to send her to prison. "I have grandchildren," she said. "The time I have left, I'd like to spend with them. I don't think it's fair to take me away from them."

I don't understand how it matters that she has grandchildren or how old she may be. She was convicted of fraud and other crimes, so the law she punish her the same.

Re:Do the crime, Do the Time

[jesdynf]

Meh. I could see it either way.

The key here is what most benefits The People. There aren't really any gains to paying for her incarceration. Are we not setting a tough enough /example/? Is there some need to deter copycats from contracting cancer to avoid punishment?

I don't know of any punishment the court could exact that would make someone less likely to commit crimes of this nature in the future -- the nature of the malefactor is that they don't think they'll get caught -- and vengeance for its sake doesn't turn my crank.

No, I'm not pleased with her, but... it's just not going to make me any money to jail her.

Re:Do the crime, Do the Time

[volxdragon]

I once got a speeding ticket. The total cost, including the lawyer to get it pead down, the court costs, and the ticket cost me a whopping $110. Of that, $10 was the ticket. $10. That's it. What did I learn from this whole episode? Speeding doesn't matter because the punishment was so pathetic that it was worth it. Do I still speed? No, but that's because I now have a wife and kids to think about, but it most CERTAINLY wasn't because the penalty was any sort of a deterant. Make punishments actually HAVE a real impact and deterrant effect, then they might be taken seriously. Giving this women a slap on the wrist in an insult, stick her for the max like anyone else...

Re:Do the crime, Do the Time

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't understand how it matters that she has grandchildren or how old she may be. She was convicted of fraud and other crimes, so the law she punish her the same.

I can see it now, "kids, let's go to Grannies house to bake cookies and learn how to scam and fraud other people. If you get caught, no big deal, because no Judge would lock up a grade-schooler... It's the perfect caper!"

Re:Do the crime, Do the Time

[Paradise Pete]

You seem to not place a high value on your time. That's the big penalty.

Re:Do the crime, Do the Time

[initialE]

So you're encouraging old people to commit crimes? Because that's what happens when you remove the deterrent factor is that others see the precedent that is set and they follow along.

Re:Do the crime, Do the Time

[Anonymous Coward]

Why didn't she think of that before committing the crime(s)? It astonishes me that some people have a total inability to contemplate the consequences for their actions. Or is it more likely she was consciously using her grandchildren as a tool of manipulation?

Either way, she doesn't seem willing to pay the price for her actions and hopefully the judge will punish her accordingly.

Re:Do the crime, Do the Time

[Anonymous Coward]

>I now have a wife and kids to think about

You really shouldn't post your stalking fantasies here.

Re:Do the crime, Do the Time

[volxdragon]

Sad thing is, it cost me almost zero time - I didn't even need to show up to court, the lawyer took care of it all...all I had to do is make the initial call, and then write the check (which was mailed).

Re:Do the crime, Do the Time

[jesdynf]

You're assuming there IS a deterrent factor -- my post said I didn't see one, and I still hold to that.

Before she chose to commit this crime, we had an opportunity to deter her from doing so. We didn't. Any theory of effective deterrence would've held that SHE could've been deterred -- what penalty do you believe would have done so? The nature of the crime is that you think you won't get caught.

So now we have (okay, had, but let's pretend) a chance to set a penalty, that ones such as her might be deterred from similar crimes -- what penalty do you believe will do so? I don't see anything being effective, up to and including Chinese-style summary executions.

Re:Do the crime, Do the Time

[Anonymous Coward]

There is indeed a gain to her incarceration: deterrence. Consider the general consensus if she walks: if you're old, or sick, or have grandkids, you can get away with anything! Consider also that the old or sick, in real life, are surprisingly resilient and often recover and live in relative health for many more years. Consider also that the definition of old, sick, and having family is extremely flexible and can be exaggerated. I have ten grandkids, no, wait, I have two, wait, I have two that I've never seen but suddenly I have this extreme urge to be close to them if it'll keep me out of jail, ah, I don't have grandkids but I have estranged kids I want to make amends with before I die. I have terminal cancer and two months to live, no, actually I have nasty cancer and one year, wait, I have cancer in remission and should live at least five, wait, I don't actually have cancer but I'm in a risk group, um, well I have brain clouds. I'm 90, I could die tomorrow! Well, I'm 80. Actually, I'm 70... And so on.

Then consider that a considerable percentage of our society is old, or sick, or has grandkids.

I am not advocating a super harsh punishment, but certainly there needs to be punishment. I'm not against some leniency for extenuating circumstances, but we do actually have to consider the precedents set and draw lines somewhere. Perhaps my examples were too silly, but the opening is there, and such arguments will be attempted.

And I don't think We the People are required to pay an old lady's medical bills if she's out on parole with an ankle bracelet. Well, I mean we might - Medicare - but not any more so than we otherwise would have. AFAIK parole is how we already answers this issues today for the non-violent elderly.

Re:Do the crime, Do the Time

[slamb]

I don't understand how it matters that she has grandchildren or how old she may be. She was convicted of fraud and other crimes, so the law she punish her the same.

If anything, it's an argument for locking her up. She's obviously not a positive example for her grandchildren, so why would the judge want them spending time with her?

Re:Do the crime, Do the Time

[Sockatume]

You could argue that the time with family for someone that close to death, is more valuable than for a younger person, and therefore the appropriate punishment differs. It's like fining someone $1000, flat-rate, for speeding. Someone who rakes in $1M a year won't see that as much of a punishment, someone scraping past will see it as excessive.

Bring back the bunco squads

[RyanFenton]

For as long as there's been culture, there's always been con men. It's always a sensitive balance for a society to decide how much fraud to allow to go on, and what to call fraud. From countless iterations of fortune tellers, to confidence schemes, to games of chance, to plain old commercial advertising, there have always been the grey areas where the clever can take from the gullible, but find ways to avoid the usual punishments for theft or fraud.

Most societies find ways to prevent too much subjective productivity from being lost to these schemes, but sometimes more than just public awareness is needed to counter the effects of such large scale con jobs. In the 1950's, there were bunco squads, or sections of the police force organized to find common fraud, such as fortune tellers, rigged games, confidence swindles, and the like. I think we could use more of those today - law enforcement devoted to tracking down leads on swindlers for the public interest. Skeptical communities and movements are nice - but very few people are really interested in learning how scams work before they're fooled by them, and it seems there's always a multiplying number of desperate swindlers looking to fool more folks out of money while hiding from consequences.

Ryan Fenton

Re:Bring back the bunco squads

[TheRealMindChild]

I think we could use more of those today - law enforcement devoted to tracking down leads on swindlers for the public interest

Sorry man. Those resource are gone... to fight the war on drugs.

Re:Bring back the bunco squads

[Anonymous Coward]

BWAHAHAHAHA. The irony is so thick, you could probably beat someone with it. The con-man police are gone for the ultimate con of the war on drugs. BRILLIANT!!!

Re:Bring back the bunco squads

[Anonymous Coward]

The irony is so thick, you could probably beat someone with it.

like a penis!

Re:Bring back the bunco squads

[RyanFenton]

Indeed - and the war on drugs itself, I would define as a confidence scheme. Why? Because the only way people believe it's working and paying off is because of the words of those enforcing it. Meanwhile, those enforcing the war on drugs don't count the lost productivity of those jailed for minor drug charges, and can claim that every arrest saves countless productivity, and can claim, just by throwing an unlimited number of people in jail, that they're making society more productive without limit. It's a complete scam that's stealing a very large portion of America's resources mostly to feed and perpetuate its own existence, while not actually doing much to actually fight the more destructive aspects of drug use in our culture.

I'm saying this as a guy who, like Penn Gillete, has never used any illegal drugs, nor even drank anything more than a sip of an alchoholic beverage. I personally hate the idea of a substance changing the way my mind works, and love consciousness itself too much to want to mess with it - but I know a broken system when I see it, and see the "war on drugs" as a completely broken method of fixing our nation's problems with drug usage.

Ryan Fenton

Re:Bring back the bunco squads

[Colonel Korn]

In the 1950's, there were bunco squads, or sections of the police force organized to find common fraud, such as fortune tellers, rigged games, confidence swindles, and the like. I think we could use more of those today - law enforcement devoted to tracking down leads on swindlers for the public interest. Skeptical communities and movements are nice - but very few people are really interested in learning how scams work before they're fooled by them, and it seems there's always a multiplying number of desperate swindlers looking to fool more folks out of money while hiding from consequences.

Ryan Fenton

Now those resources go to protect the extremely rich from poor people who might download music without paying for it.

Re:Bring back the bunco squads

[doggod]

-- quote -- In the 1950's, there were bunco squads, or sections of the police force organized to find common fraud, such as fortune tellers, rigged games, confidence swindles, and the like. I think we could use more of those today - law enforcement devoted to tracking down leads on swindlers for the public interest. -- end quote --

I couldn't disagree more. I believe that the "public interest" is best served when people generally have an attitude of watchful, careful skepticism; enlisting squads of people to go weed out things that challenge people's critical thinking abilities has the effect of favoring a population of gullible dullards -- which is what we are ever more becoming.

With a gullible population, the scammers will have a ripe field from which to reap the profits from ever-newly devised games, and the bunco squads will always be playing catch-up, moving in after the damage is done. With a skeptical population, the field will be barren and the scammers will have to go somewhere else to make a living.

But, then again, as long as we have religion, the mother of all scams, it's going to be impossible to make much progress toward skepticism.

Did I mention that if you'll just send me $5 I'll make an angel come and sit on your shoulder? It's true, and you'll have better orgasms too!

Re:Bring back the bunco squads

[RyanFenton]

I can understand that viewpoint. But I don't think de facto social darwinism, where the scammers teach people a lesson by bankrupting people, makes for a very productive society.

Everyone is dumb. We all lack some critical knowledge of something that can be used to extract critical resources from us. While we can't 'protect' everyone from the fault of their own ignorance, blaming every loss from ignorance on the victim is just as wrong. Not everyone has caring parents, and no one can escape from all scams. I've attended enough skeptics conventions to know that every skeptic can still be fooled - there's always a new trick, or use of an old one that will get you.

Ryan Fenton

Re:Bring back the bunco squads

[cdrguru]

I agree that the "war on drugs" isn't doing much to reduce the problem below current levels. But, it is my belief that after seeing plenty of people addicted to drugs in one form or another that removing what controls exist today on it would give many more people the justification to use drugs. There is a small group that really cares that they are illegal and without that, they would gladly use whatever was available.

So what do we do? Education? The problem is that we are fighting "escapism" in general. Educating people that getting away from the depressing aspects of their lives is somehow wrong or self-destructive doesn't work. Just let the druggies alone? The problem with that is without controls usage will expand significantly. High prices both deter use and create crimes to fund habits.

I don't know what the answer is. I do know that today in the US 20-30% of the population would agressively jump on the drug bandwagon if they knew it was safe and wasn't illegal. Maybe more. That isn't a solution, it is a disaster. I believe most people on the leading edges of the drug war are as frustrated as anyone else over the problem. Nobody has an idea what to do. Do we just write off a third of the population of the US?

Re:Bring back the bunco squads

[Anonymous Coward]

Alchohol is good, you should drink more of it, maybe you would spend less time on slashdot trying to get modded up as 'insightful'.

These mod points in slashdotland don't really equate to real-world numbers.

Re:Bring back the bunco squads

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the war on drugs is a waste. Let the kids find it themselves. Eating shit isn't illegal, however, only few like that.

I'm saying this as a guy who, like Iggy Pop, has never used any illegal drugs, nor even drank anything more than a sip of an alchoholic beverage.

Re:Bring back the bunco squads

[Anonymous Coward]

removing what controls exist today on it would give many more people the justification to use drugs. There is a small group that really cares that they are illegal and without that, they would gladly use whatever was available.

If this group is small, then how do you get "many more" people as being a subset of that group?

I do know that today in the US 20-30% of the population would agressively jump on the drug bandwagon if they knew it was safe and wasn't illegal.

(a) How do you 'know' that?
(b) What does it matter if, as you said, its safe?

  I think you are engaging in hyperbole.

Re:Bring back the bunco squads

[Anonymous Coward]

Meanwhile, those enforcing the war on drugs don't count the lost productivity of those jailed for minor drug charges, and can claim that every arrest saves countless productivity, and can claim, just by throwing an unlimited number of people in jail, that they're making society more productive without limit.

You know, that has an interesting corollary. If we jailed everyone in the country simultaneously for minor drug charges, mightn't that make our economy infinitely productive?

I say we illegalize hemoglobin and then extend the Mexican border fence all the way around.

This could be perceived as having the added benefit of protecting us from terrorism!

Re:Bring back the bunco squads

[spire3661]

So you hate turkey? It ceratinly changes the way your mind works. The world is not black and white, drug or not drug.

Re:Bring back the bunco squads

[doggod]

Ah, yes, the old argumentum ad utopium. "Your (non-authoritarian) idea must produce utopia, if it falls short, then the default is my (authoritarian) solution, which needs to pass no tests."

Politicians love using this fallacy because people seem to fall for it easily and it funnels power and influence right into their laps. If a little old lady in Cincinatti gets scammed, why, raise the alarums, marshal the forces, create an agency, put bureaucrats to work, find some culprits, put them in jail for a while, pat ourselves on the back, make speeches, get elected again next time.

Never mind that the effort has cost the taxpayers a lot of money and has actually enhanced the playing field for the scammers (as I described earlier). It gave power to the politician, some people with mediocre abilities found new, good paying jobs in a bureaucracy, some cops got pulled off dangerous duty catching armed criminals and got reassigned to work on safe, non-violent cases. It's a win-win-win!

Oh, except for the taxpayer who quietly just took another small hit. And will keep taking more and more small hits as the process continues because the problem keeps getting worse as more and more people become gullible, act stupidly, and ask to be "protected" by their nannies, The Government.

Re:Bring back the bunco squads

[fermion]

The problem is that we have grown to depend on these confidence scams. The entire housing boom is confidence scam. The appraisers over value houses with kickbacks from the builders. The realtors love the overvaluation because they get paid on commision. The banks are happy to loan money using the overvaluations because they get a cut as well, and have little long term risk as they are able to use more fraud to sell loan to investors and government agencies. The new buyers are happy to pay the high prices because it is not costing them anything anyway, as the increasing prices actually generates income for them as well. The only people it hurts in the short run are the homeowners who have to pay increasing taxes.

Of course at some point the house of cards fell, and the home investor no longer has a cash generating property, so they walk away from the loan, or get government welfare. The builders have already made their money. The banks do feel some shock, but the tax payer helps bail them out. No one implicated in the scam loses any money they made. Again, the only people who get hurt are the honest homeowners.

So, I can see why these scams are so successful. We are addicted to these get rich schemes and believe that they are a natural order of life. We believe in magic, that there is no cause and effect, just random chance. We will get rich through the lottery. Those people who run the store got rich through luck, not hard work, and we were just not given the lucky break. they don't really deserve all that money.

At some point, the individual should take some responsibility and not be fooled by brine shrimp/sea people scam. We should understand that we cannot own a $60,000 car for $250 a month. This is where education comes in. Of course an educated populous is harder to fool, so it is dangerous to educate people too much. They might know enough so we can't take advantage of the natural greed.

We don't really need more cops. We just need a justice department that will hire competent lawyers, not lawyers with the proper superstitious beliefs in random events, to go prosecute the people who commit the crimes.

Re:Bring back the bunco squads

[The Iso]

This is a myth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tryptophan#Turkey_meat_and_drowsiness

Re:Bring back the bunco squads

[TuringTest]

Do you drink coffee?

Re:Bring back the bunco squads

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm saying this as a guy who has never used any illegal drugs, nor even drank anything more than a sip of an alchoholic beverage. I personally hate the idea of a substance changing the way my mind works, and love consciousness itself too much to want to mess with it

... Are you aware that just because a drug is legal that it *can* change how your mind works? Just asking....
--Natasha--

placebo effect helps

[Trepidity]

A lot of people start out somewhat but not completely skeptical, think "hmm I'll try a few and see", and think they see signs of it working so get sold.

Of course, this should be harder with something like penis enlargement where in theory you could actually measure it. It's a lot easier explanation for why things like homeopathic sleep aids work, because falling asleep is a very placebo-susceptible sort of thing.

And of course, it's not just snake-oil salesmen: a large portion of modern "lifestyle" pharmaceuticals work more through the placebo effect than they do through pharmaceutical means, even the ones that do have demonstrable more-than-placebo effect.

Re:placebo effect helps

[shaitand]

'Of course, this should be harder with something like penis enlargement where in theory you could actually measure it.'

The product contains herbs that increase bloodflow to the penis and thus make it easier to get a raging boner.

It isn't soft size that you measure, its erect size, and the harder it is (ie the more blood in it) the bigger it is. If you are at your fullest potential every time you will seem to be larger.

This is more like Viagra than Penis enlargement. You don't this or extenze or anything of the sort if you want this effect on the cheap. Just buy horny goat weed.

With the company...

[glitch23]

still in business that means we still have to see the stupid Smilin' Bob commercials? Or worse, will they think of another stupid ad campaign to try to drum up more business and soften (no pun intended) the blow of the $500 million forfeiture?

Re:With the company...

[Anonymous Coward]

Or worse, will they think of another stupid ad campaign to try to drum up more business and soften (no pun intended) the blow of the $500 million forfeiture?

Ha, ha -- missed one -- blow (pun presumably intended.

I believe the answer lies in the tagline for this slashdot page:

Small things make base men proud.
William Shakespeare, "Henry VI"

But if you have millions following each other...

[Anonymous Coward]

Do they elect an incompetent?

Old music industry scam

[Weaselmancer]

By ordering this sample, you agree to become part of an automatic plan in which we send you a new supply every month and charge your credit card.

This is the old "eleven albums for a penny" scam you used to see in old comic books.

Re:Old music industry scam

[dpreviti]

Columbia house isn't a scam at least not at the level of this a-hole. My Wife got sucked into his brain pills which of course didn't work. She tried to cancel only to have her bank account sent into negative numbers by this company who repeatedly dunned her even after they said they wouldn't.

As to the (Columbia House) 11 albums deal that is totally owned if you can do a little simple math. There is even a forum dedicated to getting the best deals from this offer.

http://forum.dvdtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=13
http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=265650

I used them 20 years ago many many times I'd buy my 3 albums (including a nice 4 cd box set of the doors for a good price) get my 11 free, cancel rinse wash and repeat every 4 weeks or so. I built up a big collection of tapes and later cd's using this method. You only have to get the albums that are reasonable or good prices and then cancel (really easy to do compared to smiling bob)

YMMV

DP

Re:Old music industry scam

[Anonymous Coward]

Scam ?
Hell, my friends Joey Bonadooche, Jon Bon Jovi, Hugh G Rection, & I got about 50 CDs for a nickel !

So because bash.org's been down for a few days...

[WDot]

Slashdot is now THE place to post anecdotes about penis size? =p

Months ago...

[AdmNaismith]

...it was shown that this stuff doesn't do anything. It's just a combination of every herbal 'aphrodisiac' in one pill. I admired the ads early on because they were so cheeky and it otherwise looked like a 'legitimate' pharmaceutical. Shortly after that they just became annoying. Besides, when you can get something like this without a prescription, over-the-counter (or worse, by TV mail-order) you must understand that it will not do anything useful.

Re:Months ago...

[symbolset]

...it was shown that this stuff doesn't do anything.

Personally I thought the ads were completely hilarious - a wink and a nod from Smilin' Bob that yes, it's a scam but let's have fun with it. I am sitting here shocked they raised anywhere in the neighborhood of a half a billion dollars.

The folks who sent their money? No sympathy. Sorry. None. Launching your lawyer because you missed the joke is a great way to turn a happy prank into just another sad day in court.

Re:Months ago...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not just some silly little "boys will be boys" prank, people were basically promised results (however vague the promise was), and when they didn't get them, they turned to what is probably the most appropriate solution.

"Male enhancement" is still a false claim, because there's literally no part of the body enhanced by this stuff. If it maybe made you grow facial hair faster or something, I could maybe laugh a little at it, but this is fraud. Simple as that.

Re:Months ago...

[DamnStupidElf]

"Male enhancement" is still a false claim, because there's literally no part of the body enhanced by this stuff.

What about self confidence and the placebo affect? People pay for all sorts of things of no practical value that only improve self confidence. Expensive cars, houses, clothes, and other toys are in the same boat as male enhancement pills. The benefit is entirely mental.

Airborne

[TheMeuge]

They use the same thought process that they use before they purchase "Airborne".

As a medical scientist, I cannot help but cringe any time I walk through the cashier aisle of a drug store, that is inundated with glorified sugar pills that claim to do anything from giving you more energy, to curing sleeplessness, to providing you with more stamina in bed, curing cancer or getting you pregnant (*the last couple may have been made up).

25 years in Federal prison is a *long* time

[Phantom Gremlin]

No parole. Maybe 20 years with time off for "good behavior".

This guy got more prison time than Jeff Skilling of Enron fame. And Enron's collapse cost a lot of people some serious coin.

Re:25 years in Federal prison is a *long* time

[larry bagina]

And more time than Hans Reiser (15 to life means he'll be out in 10).

Re:25 years in Federal prison is a *long* time

[Jaime2]

I was on a federal court jury a few years ago. The judge explained to us that in the federal judicial system, there is no such thing as parole. If you get sentenced to 25, you do 25.

Re:25 years in Federal prison is a *long* time

[Awptimus Prime]

This seems unlikely since he isn't even up for a parole application for fifteen years.

It's a life sentence, but he can file for parole after the 15 years passes, but I'd bet unless someone cares enough to dig up new evidence showing he might be innocent, the parole will be denied.

Re:25 years in Federal prison is a *long* time

[ralphdaugherty]

And more time than Hans Reiser (15 to life means he'll be out in 10).

      He wishes.

  rd

Re:25 years in Federal prison is a *long* time

[Anonymous Coward]

they do have time credits for good behavior though.

usually to the tune of 1 year for every five served.

Re:25 years in Federal prison is a *long* time

[Anonymous Coward]

I wish people would stop spreading that misinformation. This is California we're talking about. He has a life sentence. He won't be eligible for parole before having served 15 years.

But the vast majority of California lifers never get parole. The governor vetoes them because he doesn't want to lose votes. Somehow I don't think Reiser will be part of that small elite that gets parole, as he's a psychopathic nutcase. I think he's virtually guaranteed to stay in jail for the rest of his life.

There could be a brightside

[Anonymous Coward]

What if his new "room mate" is the one person the product worked on? Justice of the poetic kind.

Went to college with his nephew

[Anonymous Coward]

Great guy, heard some really hilarious stories about the company...grandma winning employee of the month on numerous occasions. Groups of employees taking product at work just for "fun". He told me his uncle said they sell confidence in a bottle and nothing more! The dood always had plenty of money and never went to class, but 500 million...damn!

Smilin' Bob

[symbolset]

Is J.R. "Bob" Dobbs, the icon of the Church of the SubGenius and a fixture on the Internet as long as there's been one. Many are the followers of the SubGenius.

This huckster's appropriation of Smilin' Bob for his advertising is itself subtle worship and as such, could be protected speech. Of course getting caught is a cardinal sin in the huckster's ethos so perhaps he's excommunicated.

In protest we should all donate to Rev. Magdalen's Legal defense fund because she's worth it even if this twerp isn't.

Blood transfer (was:Snake Oil)

[Lead Butthead]

How do people suspend their critical thinking enough to believe these things?

Do not blame the victims, for they face an age old physiological problem that cannot be overcome; that when blood is rerouted from the head above the waist to the one below, no critical thinking is even remotely feasible.

I knew it!

[Anonymous Coward]

When this commercial first came out - I was watching it with the wife - I looked at her and said "Ya know - that's a great idea. That shit doesn't even have to work. Who the hell would call up and say 'ummm, gee, yeah, I didn't get hard after taking your stuff and I'm not any bigger'"...

I figured it was guaranteed money for that company from whatever morons bought it... We always got a good laugh out of the commercials and their innuendo.

The other day when we heard he got busted - I texted the wife - she was ROTFLHAO...

To discourage other companies from trying that crap - the gvmt should have made them refund every penny to every customer who wants to be in on the refund...

And as for a 'notarized statement of small penis size' - yeah right - If I had purchased that crap and wanted my $$$ back, I'd have sued the guy OR if I was too embarrassed to go to Court - I'd just forge the notarized document - what are they going to do? Actually *verify* that thing? At least in this state - getting a notary seal is about $10 and a form sworn out at the Courthouse...

I wonder if those commercials will go the way of the Flobee or "paint your bald spot spray" ones from a few years back (yeah, I'm in IT - I watch late night TV while working)

Re:I knew it!

[quag7]

ROTFLHAO? Rolling On The Floor Laughing, Having An Ovaltine?

wot?

Re:I knew it!

[Leto-II]

ROTFLHAO? Rolling On The Floor Laughing, Having An Ovaltine?

wot?

My guess was rolling on the floor laughing her ass off.

Re:I knew it!

[Anonymous Coward]

ROTFLHAO? Rolling On The Floor Laughing, Having An Ovaltine?

wot?

Reading for comprehension, you'd have noticed it was a reference to his wife, who was ROTFLH(er)AO.

Fucking jackanapes -- who's laughing now, huh? huh?

What I don't understand, though

[Moraelin]

Well, that is partially true, but a lot of those are borderline scams too. Or, as marketing likes to call it, "creative puffering."

What I don't understand, though, is the insecurity about being within the normal parameters for your species. Let's face it, the human species just doesn't have the DNA for huge penises, nor a vagina design which would require one. Unless you were planning to fuck a mare, I guess. Last I've heard most women find over 7-8 inches outright uncomfortable. And most of the nerve endings are on the outside and first third of the vagina, so basically, if there was a modification to keep her happier, it would be girth, rather than length.

Even most of the male porn stars with huge "tools", had surgery to that end.

So, seriously, it seems to me just about as stupid as if, I dunno, I were to get upset because I don't have feet as big as the clowns. It wouldn't be an improvement to walk, but, boy, I wanna be above average. I wanna be like those clowns too. 'Cause you know what they say about men with big feet. (They need big shoes ;)

I mean, seriously, when and how did the penis size obsession get started anyway? (Including all the stupidities that serve as substitute penis size symbols.) Did marketing just manage to make half the male population insecure and unhappy about being normal human beings? And we still think that marketing is a _good_ thing then?

That said, I find it ironic, but nevertheless a good lesson in that this company required a doctor's affidavit that you have a small penis, to get your money back. Because unless someone was well below the normal size for a human, they didn't need to have it extended in the first place. I would have required a notarized declaration along the lines of "yes, I'm an idiot and insecure about being a normal human", but I guess their version is good too.

Re:What I don't understand, though

[maxume]

Once, the first man was born. Later, his brother was born and they had a pissing contest.

Marketers are happy to exploit this behavior, but they sure as hell didn't create or cause it.

Re:What I don't understand, though

[sjames]

I mean, seriously, when and how did the penis size obsession get started anyway?

Apparently, it's not at all limited to modern western society. Tribal dress designed to make the penis seem larger as well as tribal and primitive art depicting gods and kings with rather large penises.

OTOH, having marketing play on insecurities of every sort is somewhat more recent. I do wonder about the sociological and psychological effects of having an entire society being told repeatedly that they are inadequate and their lives incomplete without various products.

Re:What I don't understand, though

[Penguinisto]

Not quite (on the DNA point)... humans IIRC have the largest genital-to-body-mass ratio of any primate.

Otherwise, I hold forth the theory that the whole penis size thing was secretly started by women who resented being judged by their breast sizes.

/P

Re:What I don't understand, though

[griffjon]

Unless you're counting squirrel balls in the genitalia department...

But honestly folks, xkcd nailed this one a while back

http://xkcd.org/194/

Re:What I don't understand, though

[eln]

Fertility idols from multiple ancient cultures have gigantic penises. This would seem to suggest that the preoccupation with size may be as old as humanity itself.

Re:What I don't understand, though

[Anonymous Coward]

"I mean, seriously, when and how did the penis size obsession get started anyway?"

Now I'm not going to try and pretend I have a huge member, but have you every listened to a woman who has had sex with many men? Most of them will prefer a larger penis over a smaller one. This is what is reported both in real life and in marketed culture.

Why are women concerned about their breasts being too small? If you talk to most men, they will tell you that they prefer larger breasts over smaller ones. This is what is reported both in real life and in marketed culture.

Personally breast size isn't a huge issue (see what I did there? haha) for me. I just prefer them round and shapely.

I'm not complaining about my penis size, but if something could offer me some extra size (girth / length) with little risks, I would probably take it. I'm sure most women would say the same about their breast size.

Re:What I don't understand, though

[Penguinisto]

You do know that squirrels aren't considered primates, right? :)

/P

Re:What I don't understand, though

[story645]

Apparently, it's not at all limited to modern western society. Tribal dress designed to make the penis seem larger as well as tribal and primitive art depicting gods and kings with rather large penises.

A lot of that had to do with fertility symbolism; Female statuettes from the same groups often have engorged breasts for the same reason. There's actually an evolutionary psychology explanation for our societies breast/penis size fixiation centering around the same idea: men with bigger sizes are more likely to produce healthier children (and having a bigger penis are likely to be bigger/more powerful/better protectors/providers) and women with bigger breasts can produce more milk and therefore give their babies better nutrition. So basically marketing just exploited preferences built into DNA.

(There's also a Freudian explanation, but it's loopy and it's better parts fit nicely with evolutionary psych theory anyway.)

Re:What I don't understand, though

[Triv]

I mean, seriously, when and how did the penis size obsession get started anyway? (Including all the stupidities that serve as substitute penis size symbols.) Did marketing just manage to make half the male population insecure and unhappy about being normal human beings? And we still think that marketing is a _good_ thing then?

There's a piece of parchment that was found in an ancient Egyptian garbage dump. A portion of the translatable part of the parchment reads, "Oh my. It's big and thick as a roof-beam." It was a best-seller in its day - the fragment appears all over the place.

The scrap is 2,000 years old. My guess is, marketing didn't need to do much to fuel the size obsession. It's been around for a long, long, LONG time.

Re:What I don't understand, though

[Anonymous Coward]

Men have been concerned with penis size since at least Medieval times. The long, pointy shoes they wore were supposed to indicate the size of their manhood. So, shoes have long been associated with penis size.

Re:What I don't understand, though

[matria]

Milk production has nothing to do with breast size. Breast size is purely how much fat is being deposited in the breast. Actually, larger breasts make breastfeeding more difficult, since the longer milk ducts have to be kept from getting bent and twisted in all that fat. The enlargement of the breasts while breastfeeding is due to enlargement and engorgement of the underlying milk glands (similar to mumps and other diseases enlarging and engorging the lymph glands). The fat deposits are on top of the milk glands.

As far as penis size goes, yes, too long is quite uncomfortable, often leaving internal bruising that lasts for days. And smaller penises actually ejaculate with greater pressure to the point of the ejaculation being felt by the female partner, as well as a very distinct and noticeable pulsing effect. Larger penises more like dribble, and the pulsing effect is also lessened.

Re:What I don't understand, though

[Anonymous Coward]

"My guess is, marketing didn't need to do much to fuel the size obsession. It's been around for a long, long, LONG time. "

So has marketing...

Re:What I don't understand, though

[Anonymous Coward]

I mean, seriously, when and how did the penis size obsession get started anyway?

The when is easy: phallic symbols are common all the way back to prehistorical times. They've only been muted since the invention of pants.

Re:What I don't understand, though

[Anonymous Coward]

And most of the nerve endings are on the outside and first third of the vagina, so basically, if there was a modification to keep her happier, it would be girth, rather than length.

Actually, I once happened to be at a coffee show where some chicks at the next table were talking about the subject and one agreed with you 100%. She told her friends, "Yeah, length is OK, but for a real good time, go for girth."

Re:What I don't understand, though

[story645]

*shrugs* I never said that the symbolism had any basis in biological fact (symbolism often doesn't), that's just the standard trace.

Basically, obviously bigger isn't better as population distributions on breast and penis size fall out such that most people are at sizes that the other sex feels comfortable with), but fertility symbolism since the beginning of time has highlighted those two regions for their obvious importance and in turn that importance has stimulated a bigger=better relationship to take root in peoples minds (even though that isn't true.)

Re:What I don't understand, though

[Anachragnome]

I think it was marketers.

Same people that convinced men and women alike that large breasts are attractive. Personally, not turned on by stretch marks or surgery scars. Not to mention the fact that there is more then likely a bra involved, and you ALL know how hard it is for geeks to get around those.

Is it just my mind making this up, or did I once see a "Enzyte Natural BREAST enhancement for Women" ad?

Re:What I don't understand, though

[malkir]

"mean, seriously, when and how did the penis size obsession get started anyway?"

If it's a relationship, most women will put up with anything that's not pinky-sized.

The second casual sex is involved, pleasure trumps almost everything, and girls know size DOES matter with that respect.

Let's face it, when you're screwing a girls brains out - she's loving it, and 9/10 times she'll call back for more. Woot!

Re:What I don't understand, though

[HeadlessNotAHorseman]

For all we know people in ancient cultures did have gigantic penises as a matter of course, and now our obsession is more to do with trying to catch up to how things were in the "good old days"!

Re:What I don't understand, though

[malkir]

If you have a lot of junk, just go easy on the gal. A lot of people are sexually incompetent!

Pressure build-up causes the greature pressure.

Pressure buildup = skill of girl + time of arousal + how horny you are.

There's a lot of factors you have to take into account.

Re:What I don't understand, though

[matria]

I know; I wasn't specifically addressing you. I just wanted to clear the air, so to speak, since a lot of people really do believe that. I've had to reassure quite a number of friends expecting their first child that they were more than adequate to feed their baby.

Of course I never say anything to my male friends, their egos are fragile enough as it is, and when a guy's self-image is based on his perceived size advantage, as far too many are, it would be just cruel to ...er... deflate him.

Besides, in my 50 years of experience, I've found that physical size and/or performance actually has very little to do with my enjoyment of a relationship. Just being nice to a girl will do a lot more for her than a bigger stick to bang her with. If a guy is thinking in terms of "banging" anyway, he's on the wrong track. I've had the reputation of a cold bitch most of my life because I don't roll over simply because somebody else's dick twitches, but I can get wound up enough even before any clothing comes loose that I barely notice what goes on after they come off. Now that's a real lover!

Re:What I don't understand, though

[Brickwall]

Tribal dress designed to make the penis seem larger as well as tribal and primitive art depicting gods and kings with rather large penises.

Chinese woman bound their feet for centuries because small feet were deemed attractive. I remember pictures of African tribes where the women either wore rings to stretch their necks because long necks were considered attractive, or wore hoops to extend their bottom lips. And didn't Elizabethan men wear enormous "codpieces" to make themselves appear larger?

Nothing ever changes, really, except the technology used to deliver the illusion.

Re:What I don't understand, though

[Brickwall]

Let's face it, when you're screwing a girls brains out - she's loving it, and 9/10 times she'll call back for more.

And then your Mom answers the phone, and says "Just a moment, he's down in the basement..".

Re:What I don't understand, though

[orangesquid]

Seriously. If you want to please a woman, (1) try ribbed condoms, (2) work on your stroke, (3) work on overall intercourse techniques, (4) experiment more with foreplay and sex play, (5) remember that the brain is the strongest sex organ -- what can you say to enhance the experience?, and (6) remember that the sensation of touch is what excites most women the most (whereas most men are excited the most by visual stimulation).

Man, I should develop on these ideas and sell them in a book. I bet I'd have more happy customers than Enzyte and great word-of-mouth advertising (cheaper and often more effective than commercials).

Re:What I don't understand, though

[Kgosi Makwati]

So, what would you prefer, a smaller one or a larger one?

Re:What I don't understand, though

[networkconsultant]

It's part of the male human psyche possibly hard wired to the part that also likes guns, large loud vehicles and lawn mowers big enough to sleep on; and anything else that is overly expensive and a status symbol, to show to our potential mates that we are virile and potentially good providers, even though the devices themselves are well beyond useless otherwise. Mutch like a baboon we love to be territorial.

Re:What I don't understand, though

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, human males have some of the biggest penii in the animal kingdom in proportion to your body mass.

Re:What I don't understand, though

[TheMidnight]

Duke D'Honnefleur: I don't like your cuffs. I don't like your cuffs, I don't like your cuffs. A man's cuffs should only come down to the tip of his pee pee. Yours come all the way down to your balls.
Count de Monet: At least I have them.
Duke D'Honnefleur: You bitch.

Re:What I don't understand, though

[mrops]

Needless to say, we know your penis size.

Re:What I don't understand, though

[Anonymous Coward]

Spoken like someone with an average or above-average penis size.

I have a small penis. (Posting AC for obvious reasons.) When you have seen a woman's disappointed face upon seeing the small size of your penis; or worse, heard "Is it in yet?", it's a huge blow to your self esteem.

I know that Enzyte is a scam, but I was still tempted anyway by the one in a trillion chance it could have even a small effect.

You yourself say that women find over 7-8 inches uncomfortable, so it's better to be average. Well, try being 3-4 inches with narrow girth. When you are significantly smaller than a women is used to, it's just a disappointing experience all around.

Re:What I don't understand, though

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, either you know way too much about this stuff to be on /., or you have a serious case of the sour grapes. As this is /., I'm putting my money on the latter.

Re:What I don't understand, though

[matria]

Oh, definitely a smaller one, as long as the bearer is a decent human being.

Re:What I don't understand, though

[matria]

Well, I've always been thankful that I didn't have that silly looking stuff dangling around, especially when I had horses ;)

Although I must admit it would come in handy when hiking and camping and need to find a bush or rock to hide behind.

Re:What I don't understand, though

[MBGMorden]

I remember pictures of African tribes where the women either wore rings to stretch their necks

It could be that an African tribe (or several) were doing this too, but this most of what I've seen on this was an Asian practice (Thai if I remember correctly). It looks downright creepy to me, but different strokes for different folks (or cultures in this case).

Re:What I don't understand, though

[Atario]

I mean, seriously, when and how did the penis size obsession get started anyway?

I'm too lazy to find any citations for any of this, but the basic idea is that since human males must have erections to copulate, and an erect penis is bigger than a flaccid one, larger penis size becomes associated with higher virility (even if it really has nothing to do with it). Similar theories apply to other parts of human anatomy that swell during sexual excitement (female breasts, etc.).

Another theory has it that since disease, disorders, and poor mental states hinder the ability to get an erection, the erection, and, by extension, the inherently larger penis, are indicators of overall health.

Either way, this feeds into a sexual selection cycle and men get bigger penises. As society develops, a parallel insecurity/pride becomes attached to having a smaller/larger penis.

You'll notice I started by pointing out something most think blindingly obvious: that men need erections to have sex. In most of the mammal class, this is not (or not entirely) the case, since most mammal species have "os penises" -- they contain a bone, making the penis always rigid. We are a rare exception. The above health-indicator theory has been put forward as an explanation for this as well (taking away our crutches to expose our weaknesses). My own theory says it's probably not a great idea to walk around with an erection all the time, when you walk upright and falling on your face the wrong way might mean permanent effective sterility.

Re:What I don't understand, though

[againjj]

I mean, seriously, when and how did the penis size obsession get started anyway? (Including all the stupidities that serve as substitute penis size symbols.) Did marketing just manage to make half the male population insecure and unhappy about being normal human beings? And we still think that marketing is a _good_ thing then?

Replace "penis size" with "breast size", "tan", "muscle", or anything else you care to. They all are people who are not happy with themselves, and fixate on whatever happens to be available.

Re:What I don't understand, though

[againjj]

Now I'm not going to try and pretend I have a huge member, but have you every listened to a woman who has had sex with many men? Most of them will prefer a larger penis over a smaller one. This is what is reported both in real life and in marketed culture.

Why are women concerned about their breasts being too small? If you talk to most men, they will tell you that they prefer larger breasts over smaller ones. This is what is reported both in real life and in marketed culture.

Of the people I have talked to, they generally say they want something average. The women do not like fat or long penises that are uncomfortable, nor small ones that they can't feel. The men like something they can do stuff with, but are not unwieldy. Of course, my data is anecdotal, but are there any real surveys out there?

Personally breast size isn't a huge issue (see what I did there? haha) for me. I just prefer them round and shapely.

I'm not complaining about my penis size, but if something could offer me some extra size (girth / length) with little risks, I would probably take it. I'm sure most women would say the same about their breast size.

Everyone wants the flashier peacock tail.

Re:What I don't understand, though

[rtechie]

Let's face it, the human species just doesn't have the DNA for huge penises, nor a vagina design which would require one.

Human males have HUGE penes relative to most other mammals. Large penes are associated with promiscuity in mammals.

Even most of the male porn stars with huge "tools", had surgery to that end.

No they didn't. Many male porn stars take viagra or similar drugs to maintain erections, but very few have surgical enhancements because they do not work. It's basically impossible to get a plastic surgeon to do "size enhancement" in the USA. The only plastic surgery of this type that you see is a "scrotum lift" where the scrotum is trimmed and evened out (if one testicle hangs lower than the other). Really.

I mean, seriously, when and how did the penis size obsession get started anyway?

Women want them, regardless of what they say. If you look at gross physical attributes, and if you can't come up with a good evolutionary reason for having an attribute, it's probably sex-selected. The peacock's tail is the classic example. Peacocks have large tail displays because peahens selected males with the largest displays. Humans have large penes because women selected men with the largest penes.

Re:What I don't understand, though

[Anonymous Coward]

I've had to reassure quite a number of friends expecting their first child that they were more than adequate to feed their baby.

1.3 billion Chinese can't be wrong.

Re:What I don't understand, though

[VeNoM0619]

As far as penis size goes, yes, too long is quite uncomfortable

They must be doing it wrong... depends on the position, but lets not get into all of them. Lets just say that most of Kamasutra is about "penetrating deeper"

Larger penises more like dribble, and the pulsing effect is also lessened.

Again... doing it wrong...by extending the actual time during sex, men can actually give higher amounts of a "load", thus preventing the dribble (unless at the end, but that's always natural, like shutting off a hose). I suggest learning a technique called "edging", which also adds the benefit of allowing the girl to orgasm at least 2-5 times during that 2-6 hour period.

Just Like The Urban Legend

[coaxial]

Among their most egregious offenses was a requirement of a Notarized statement from a doctor certifying that they had a small penis. Amazingly, remarkably few customers availed themselves of the refund offer.

"Sorry, but do to a supply chain issue, we can not fulfill your order. Here's your refund, courtesy of The Anal Sex and Fetish Perversion Company."

Re:Just Like The Urban Legend

[freedom_india]

Well.. now once he goes to prison he will be able to feel *it* up his ass. Best real advertising ever!

Am I the only one?

[domatic]

Anyone have nightmares about being tied up in a dark room when all the sudden this whistly theme starts playing and Smilin' Bob walks in the room. And of course there is that cheeky little wave before the real horror starts.

That sounds like....

[Anonymous Coward]

a guy with a small penis talking!

Best Commercials

[Anonymous Coward]

The Enzyte commercials are some of the funniest I've seen AND they always pissed off my wife.

I'm glad they'll stay.

And there's nothing wrong with dick size that a Porche won't cure . . .

25 years?

[bigbird]

That's an amazingly long time in prison for scamming people. He would have got less if he sold legitimate drugs that occasionally killed people.

No wonder American prisons are overflowing. Why not make him empty bedpans in retirement homes or some other yucky community service for a few years instead?

Re:25 years?

[MoeDrippins]

Actually, this and cases like it have nothing to do with American prisons' overpopulation.

The "War on Drugs", now that's a different matter.

Re:25 years?

[couchslug]

"Why not make him empty bedpans in retirement homes or some other yucky community service for a few years instead?"

Because that would not be a deterrent. If I could make enough money to afford a half-billion dollar fine, I'd volunteer to do five years in solitary!

Re:25 years?

[Sockatume]

If you can scam people and make, say, $12,000,000, then spend 5 years emptying bedpans 9-5 weekdays, then it's as though bedpan-emptying pays $1000 per hour. That's not exactly a deterrent to scamming.

Re:So because bash.org's been down for a few days.

[Anonymous Coward]

>Slashdot is now THE place to post anecdotes about penis size?

Sure, why not? It lost its distinction as a place for intelligent people to post a long time ago; the general consensus is right around the time when UIDs hit 6 digits.

And, you're a perfect example. From a previous post:"More often then not"

Brilliant. But, in your defense, it's not your fault - blame your parents.

Still, you're the perfect example of the 21st century Slashdotter: Stupid, ignorant, yet oblivious.

He will be happy...

[magusnet]

I'm sure he will be happy these pills didn't work when he drops the soap in the shower.

Some non-escapist questions

[marxmarv]

I agree that the "war on drugs" isn't doing much to reduce the problem below current levels. But, it is my belief that after seeing plenty of people addicted to drugs in one form or another that removing what controls exist today on it would give many more people the justification to use drugs.

So what do we do? Education? The problem is that we are fighting "escapism" in general. Educating people that getting away from the depressing aspects of their lives is somehow wrong or self-destructive doesn't work. Just let the druggies alone? The problem with that is without controls usage will expand significantly. High prices both deter use and create crimes to fund habits.

How can you say you're fighting escapism when the two most common crutches (and among the most likely to prevent real improvement in one's life), alcohol and television, are not only legal, but heavily promoted? What are you doing to improve anyone's lot in life? Does shutting off possible paths to self-actualization even more by slapping users with criminal records for trying to ease their pain even sound effective to this end once you take 100 years of temperance dogma out of the equation?

I don't know what the answer is. I do know that today in the US 20-30% of the population would agressively jump on the drug bandwagon if they knew it was safe and wasn't illegal. Maybe more. That isn't a solution, it is a disaster. I believe most people on the leading edges of the drug war are as frustrated as anyone else over the problem. Nobody has an idea what to do. Do we just write off a third of the population of the US?

Is drug use really the disaster? Not that people are pouring large amounts of money into violent criminal organizations because it's the only place to get what they're after? Not that people buying drugs can't buy a regulated product of known potency and thus are severely injured or die from overdoses or pollutants? Not that there are absolutely no enforceable controls to ensure that minors can't procure dangerous drugs with less hassle than they currently procure booze? Not that the only official guidance most users receive on doing drugs safely is "don't", and that in the absence of proper information and education they try to use drugs stupidly?

Escapism is only intrinsically dangerous to authoritarians. Alcohol and television are allowed only because they significantly incapacitate the user from bringing back from their trips anything contradictory to authoritarian dogma.

Does that mean Bob loses his job . . .

[JulianConrad]

. . . at Sterling Cooper?

Re:Does that mean Bob loses his job . . .

[eskayp]

Not to worry; if Dino Rossi wins the election as Governor of the State of Washington this fall he won't need the money he got for playing Smiling Bob in those Enzyte commercials.
Smiling Dino will have the whole state treasury at his disposal.
Good reason for a big dick to grin even wider.

Yet it still goes on

[Anonymous Coward]

Late night TV is filled with these hucksters selling dubious products and services. The Extenze folks, that Kevin Trudeau snake oil salesman, and lets not forget religious con artist Kerney Thomas. Gaaaawwwwdddd!

Half Correct....

[maz2331]

...if they had been raised correctly, he would not have faced a baseball bat, but Hanging, Drawing, and Quartering in a cornfield someplace.

Rope... check.
4WD Truck... check.
Knife... check.
Bonfire... check.
Shovel... check.
Lime.... check.

I worry more for the elderly

[witherstaff]

If anyone has an elderly grandparent / parent / etc check the crap they receive. The cure for every ache and pain out there arrives all the time in very slick looking 'medical journals'. They all have a cover price on them of $4.95 or something and at a quick glance they look very realistic.

The publishing is really first rate, nice layouts, pictures of doctors, testimonials, etc. There is a little disclaimer somewhere in them that 'these statements aren't approved by the FDA' but it's easy to miss. So you have a little magazine pitching a cure on each page with a lengthy writeup. I have never seen anything listed for less than $20.

I made sure to get the mail every day for the grandparents to weed out this junk after noticing they were buying a lot of crap. I can only assume they buy mailing lists of retired and elderly and make a fortune on this. Probably far more than small dick pills ever could.

Re:I worry more for the elderly

[Anonymous Coward]

they get the lists from the AARP which is FAMOUS for selling it's membership list.

Re:Why Is Prison Rape Humorous?

[dragonturtle69]

I'm replying to your post just because it is the highest rated for this point in the thread. I mean this as an honest question as I have never found the concept humorous.

Why is male on male rape in a prison environment considered either funny? Why do some appear to view male anal rape as part of the punishment of being imprisoned?

I've not seen once the male to female or female to female rape shown in a humorous manner or as justifiable. Is it just the discomfort of the subject matter of male anal rape that gets the grins.

Re:So because bash.org's been down for a few days.

[story645]

*shrugs* It's actually somewhat on topic, so I think it'd be sort of encouraged.

I'm just disappointed that the commercials will continue 'cause they always make me crack up uncomfortably. (Yeah, I'm an immature girl, oh well.)

Re:Why Is Prison Rape Humorous?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it just the discomfort of the subject matter of male anal rape that gets the grins.

Yes.

Because humans are stupid insecure

[Synn]

Women are insanely insecure about their bodies. I've known a lot of great looking women who are perfectly fine and they all have body image issues. Some so bad they're afraid to be seen in public in swim suits or sports bra's.

And by "perfectly fine" I mean body's that are athletic and toned, but aren't that Maxim perfect tone you see in the magazines.

Men are just as insecure, but we care about our penis size and our sexual prowess. Hence all the viagra and penis enlargment spam on the internet.

It's really pretty sad and a huge waste of energy. Men really don't care too much about a woman's body size so long as the girl is in the range of "average". And women could care less about penis size and some silly idea of how awesome a guy is in bed.

I mean, if you're an average guy with a decent job, has his own place, is a stand up dude, honest, caring, and isn't a push over, that's pretty much the dream man.

But we're basically stupid animals so we fret over the dumbest things and worry ourselves into being complete fuck ups.

Re:Because humans are stupid insecure

[Anonymous Coward]

Men really don't care too much about a woman's body size so long as the girl is in the range of "average".

That's a lie and you know it. You are saying all this just to face your own insecurities and sub-standard status.
Women's size and looks matter more than anything in this world.

Only the bottom quartile?

[Mathinker]

Given a certain recent high-profile example of a top-quartiler with anger problems, I'm not so sure that you're totally on the money, there. But I do admit that one example isn't a good statistical comparison.

Re:Only the bottom quartile?

[Fulcrum of Evil]

One example isn't really important - the unabomber was a math prof, after all. Your bottom quartile is frequently there due to poor impulse control and a lack of planning - piss enough of them off and some of them will do something about it. Hell, I'm surprised nobody did that to Ken Lay.

Re:Only the bottom quartile?

[GodKingAmit]

Because the bottom quartile owned a lot of Enron stock?

Re:Only the bottom quartile?

[Fulcrum of Evil]

yeah, some of them have retirement accounts (or relatives with them) and got cleaned out.

Re:Only the bottom quartile?

[Brickwall]

Hell, I'm surprised nobody did that to Ken Lay.

Karma did.

Re:Only the bottom quartile?

[umghhh]

I would never say that all upper quantile or media, politics, managment etc people are psychopaths and all bottom quantile people are intelligent, nice individuals who stay there because they love and respect other people so much. The fact is however that psychopaths are overrepresented in upper layers of society - see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy. It could be that in this particular case some politician(s) purchased goods from that company and manipulated the system appropriately as their penises did not grow bigger.

Fraud investigation is outsourced?

[Mathinker]

> they completed their second investigation (I think performed by someone
> not in India this time, like the first one was.)

I'm curious. You actually know for a fact that the first investigation was done by an outsourced worker from India? Or are you just using a convenient meme-stereotype for shoddy work?

Sad

[wwejason]

I live less than 5 miles from their headquarters and it was all over the news here when the FBI raided their place a couple years ago (or whenever it was). Their headquarters/call center is a one level shit hole that used to be a JC Penney credit card call center.
Check Google Maps Streetview for Waycross Rd & Mill Rd, Cincinnati, OH 45240. Their building is the small one under the sun in that view.

Re:Sad

[phantomfive]

Come on, don't be lazy, provide a link! That way I can be lazy. :)

I believe this is the building you were talking about, verify if you wish.

But I'm old!

[Digital End]

"I have grandchildren," she said. "The time I have left, I'd like to spend with them. I don't think it's fair to take me away from them."

Don't think it's fare you ripped off all those people either.

Re:So because bash.org's been down for a few days.

[Maelwryth]

I wouldn't go so far as to say it should be encouraged. At the time I posted though, it was the only thread and the memory of that conversation still makes me smile (the things people say!).

As for the ad's making you crack up uncomfortably, thats perfectly natural. Ad's for condoms or tampons used to do it to me as well. Our inhibitions are part of our social training, and are very hard to get rid of. Look on the dark side, if you seriously ever want to hurt a man, tell him he has a small penis. He will always wonder.

vely, VELY big here, in japan

[Anonymous Coward]

you see, we-yuh, japanese, yes, have vely, vely, uh, small penis, yes

not like you vely, vely BIG penis in america

Evolution of Boobs

[SpaceMika]

I've been spending a lot of time hanging out with the evolutionary psychology research group, and they've taught me that the (evolutionary-)point of boobs is to camouflage the menstrual cycle. The basic logic is:
- if a male can tell a female's cycle, he'll spend all his time and energy on impregnating her at her most fertile(and keeping the other males away) but when she's not fertile dump her.
- for most primates, breasts swell during the fertile point in the cycle (as for why that would indicate a good mating partner, check out some other posts)
- to keep a guy around, women need to hide when they're fertile and when they're not so their breasts are swollen all the time (thus, boobs).

Okay, I'm not an evolutionary psychologist myself so I'm probably missing bits & it's not really relevant to the article, but it's tangentially related and I thought it was a neat theory. It does make me wonder if there's other examples (or counter-examples) of hiding fertility cycles and how it relates to mating/group structure.

It also makes me wonder if a version of the theory will pop up in a how-to-keep-your-man book or magazine some day -- "Now girls, make sure he never knows if you're using birth control or if you're on your period, or he'll be evolutionarily driven to cheat on you!"

Re:Evolution of Boobs

[story645]

- to keep a guy around, women need to hide when they're fertile and when they're not so their breasts are swollen all the time (thus, boobs)

But for many girls, their breasts (boobs) are swollen (or sensitive) during their period (or right before it). Granted, it's minor enough that the only way for the guy to notice is if he's regularly feeling her up, but it does work as long as I'm not thinking of modern culture.

It also makes me wonder if a version of the theory will pop up in a how-to-keep-your-man book or magazine some day -- "Now girls, make sure he never knows if you're using birth control or if you're on your period, or he'll be evolutionarily driven to cheat on you!

Sounds too much like snagging him by getting pregnant.

Re:So because bash.org's been down for a few days.

[armareum]

I *never* start a new thread, so it's *always* the Parent's fault.

Penis Reduction Pills

[KlaymenDK]

http://www.penisreductionpills.com/

Seriously.

Why mentioning cancer?

[houghi]

The age I can partly understand, but why mention the fact that she has cancer? Is there any relevance to the fact that she has cancer and whether she is guilty or not?

Next we will know what the color of her dress was when she married.

It can actually work

[caliburngreywolf]

I have read scientific studies that indicate that any substance which destroys testosterone can, in moderate quantities, cause the testes to produce more testosterone. (body percieves a deficiency and orders more) Over time, this can result in slightly larger genitalia (the testosterone local to the penis is greater due to proximity to the testes)...but the change would be fairly insignificant.

Re:Why Is Prison Rape Humorous?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've not seen once the male to female or female to female rape shown in a humorous manner or as justifiable.

You're surfin' wrong parts of teh interwebs

You need to *write*

[Peter Simpson]

It's fine to call up and complain about fraudulent charges, but like it says in the credit agreement, your rights aren't preserved unless you make a written complaint, stating certain facts.

If you do make a written complaint, you're protected by the laws regulating credit cards and they can't ignore your complaint, need to respond within (some number) of days, and in general, pay more attention to the issue.

So, write it all out, send the letter certified, and keep a log of calls and letters. That way, when you call back, you have facts and names.

I'd warn against trusting marketing too much

[Moraelin]

Now I'm not going to try and pretend I have a huge member, but have you every listened to a woman who has had sex with many men? Most of them will prefer a larger penis over a smaller one. This is what is reported both in real life and in marketed culture.

Actually, I've mostly heard that in spam, rather than from any actual woman.

I'd warn against trusting marketing and PR "testimonials" too much. Especially when they tell you what someone else wants.

As a non-penis-size (well, or rather indirectly;) thing, take diamonds. Nobody gave much of a damn about them until the PR campaign to convince men that every woman wants a diamond. What actually happened there is that they actually asked some women, and were expecting to hear them confirm that they want jewellery. To their surprise, most said that they'd rather have the guy invest that money into something useful for both, like getting a home after they get married.

The whole point of that campaign became to convince you to _not_ ask a woman. Trust _us_, not her. We know better that she really wants a diamond. Just buy one already.

Here is why she should not be jailed.

[The Seventh Sign]

Who do you think is going to pay for her cancer treatments while incarcerated? US that's who. TSS

Re:Why Is Prison Rape Humorous?

[dugeen]

Yes, these stories always attract humorous posts from sadists. Given their evident enthusiasm for rape I wonder on what grounds they condemn a scammer?

No...

[Anonymous Coward]

an iphone.

Declare bankruptcy start a nw scam

[Anonymous Coward]

30 days before prison. Tim enought to declare bankruptcy and start a new company/scam.

Men with small units are smarter.

[jameskojiro]

More blood for the brain or so the feminist thinking goes.

You don't want a big unit that when you see a somewhat good looking female you loose 1/2 your blood volume to it causing your brain to be starved of O2 now do you.

People / Races with small units are generally smarter, more blood to the head more O2 for the brain.

Re:So because bash.org's been down for a few days.

[Yeff]

"Slashdot is now THE place to post anecdotes about penis size? =p" Unless the OS wars have ended it has ALWAYS been the place for anecdotal penis sizes...

I dont see enhancement ads that often

[peter303]

Wither the filters are catching them well or the character spam is changing. I get lots winning lottery tickets and Nigerian letters now.

Anonymous Coward

[Anonymous Coward]

What's really scary (Interesting? Exciting?) is that with rapid tech and knowledge increases in regenerative biology, the ability to undergo "spiritual" growth will become a reality. Will men compete and be walking around with "freakish attributes?" Will there be an ultra-endowed equivalent of MENSA? Stay tuned!

Lots of big guys are crappy lovers

[phorm]

As my girlfriends best friend can recently attest to, the experience is often rather uncomfortable for the female.

And as many of my female friends have mentioned, big guys tend to this size=all, and therefore they don't actually consider a lot of other aspects/actions that make one a good lover. In fact, many of them seem to have this "she'll love it because I'm soooo big" attitude, and thus cause more discomfort than pleasure in their fumbling.

I suppose one of the good things about being "the guy friend" and hearing all the stories from my (often attractive) female friends is that I learned a lot more about women like, and try to avoid making the same mistakes myself.

Burden on the system

[phorm]

The only argument I could see is that the special arrangements needed to send granny back and forth to her cancer treatments might be rather expensive and burdensome on the system.

Of course, IMHO the bonus of the cancer is that the above notwithstanding, she'll be spending less time tying up the prison system should the cancer have its way.

All points to NASCAR

[Anonymous Coward]

Hopefully this will be the [start of the] downfall of NASCAR--they had no problem with teams taking money from this company for advertisement. The product was pretty obvious to be snake oil, but orgs like NASCAR made it "legitimate" from taking the ad dollars...

Re:So because bash.org's been down for a few days.

[badkarmadayaccount]

girl?!WTFagirlon/.!! "change relationship to frien" *Click*

Re:Why Is Prison Rape Humorous?

[Anonymous Coward]

It is considered a horrible crime worthy of death up to the age of 18. After 18 it is considered funny by the same people who were horrified before.

I wasn't talking about you, though

[Moraelin]

Spoken like someone with an average or above-average penis size.

I have a small penis. (Posting AC for obvious reasons.) When you have seen a woman's disappointed face upon seeing the small size of your penis; or worse, heard "Is it in yet?", it's a huge blow to your self esteem.

I know that Enzyte is a scam, but I was still tempted anyway by the one in a trillion chance it could have even a small effect.

You yourself say that women find over 7-8 inches uncomfortable, so it's better to be average. Well, try being 3-4 inches with narrow girth. When you are significantly smaller than a women is used to, it's just a disappointing experience all around.

Well, you have my sympathy there. I wasn't talking about people like you. In that case, I see the point in wanting to be normal.

The ones that I'm ranting about are those who _are_ average (the gauss curve is pretty narrow for the humans), but are insecure about having less than a foot.

Quoting from Wikipedia, because I'm too lazy tolook up more authoritative sources:

While results vary across studies, the consensus is that the average erect human penis is approximately 12.9-15cm (5.1-5.9 in) in length with a 95% confidence interval of (10.7 cm, 19.1 cm) (or, equivalently, (4.23 in, 7.53 in))[11][12][13]. The typical girth or circumference is approximately 12.3 cm (4.85 in) when fully erect. The average penis size is slightly larger than the median size (or, put another way, most penises are below average in size).

So basically anyone with 6 inches is already (marginally) _above_ both the average _and_ median for the species. They have a dick that's longer than what more than 50% of the population has. It's freaking stupid to be insecure about that.

"75-year-old mother, who has cancer"

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, right, I'll bet he says that, and I bet he told the judge he was only trying to get the money for her operation too ....

Re:So because bash.org's been down for a few days.

[jpostel]

Yeah, I'm an immature girl

Pictures, or it's not true. j/k

Seriously, those Enzyte commercials crack me up too! They seem to play them a lot during sports.

Not the only ones that have been caught

[Anonymous Coward]

https://secure.ntcsol.com/softniche/easyclaim/Forms/

There is still time to get your money if you purchased VigRX. The sellers of VigRX also sell Enzyte.

Re:Why Is Prison Rape Humorous?

[Brother Seamus]

In certain cases it probably seems like poetic justice. Not defending it... just sayin'.

deja vu

[GregNorc]

It's called Sex Panther by Odeon. It's illegal in nine countries... Yep, it's made with bits of real panther, so you know it's good. They've done studies, you know. Sixty percent of the time, it works every time.

On the flip side

[celtic_hackr]

There are many cases of FDA approved drugs causing health problems. Example, a co-worker of my wife got a prescription for a drug advertised on TV for a medical condition she has. The drug triggered cancer in her; on of the listed "rare" side affects of the drug. So now she still suffers from her original problem, plus the "cure" has probably killed her". She's very sick now. There are lots of other reported cases of things like this.

Not all of the "supplements" are snake-oil. For example BHT which is used as a preservative is known to cure Herpes Simplex (cold sores), but due to a big push by large food companies, it will never be a FDA approved drug. It would make the cost of using BHT prohibitive to food makers. The thing about BHT is it destroys the virus, and you'll never have another cold sore, unless you get re-infected.

Some "supplements" has some proven effect, although often minor. Some are outright dangerous. A number of the male enhancement "supplements" do have some effect, and often some of the shadier ones which are made in China and third world countries, often are polluted with derivatives of prescription ED drugs. So, if you're (un)lucky you might get a package before it is recalled due to the illegal presence of a close relative of an ED drug, which may actually do the job but kill you in the process (or just make you blind). For proof of what I say just go to the Federal recall site, where there are several recent recalls of some ME "supplements".

That site is one I monitor to keep my child safe from bad toys made with lead, small magnets, other negligent hazardous materials by greedy A** mega-corporations. (You don't want to get me started on the recall subject). Not that I would object to having a weekender pill that didn't: kill me, make me blind, or make me bigger than a horse or smaller than Pekinese. ;)

He wasn't just the judge ...

[Anonymous Coward]

but also a client!

The clue to your problem is...

[roninamano]

The clue to your problem is that the investigation was done from India....

All of these foreign based customer centers are very bad mojo. Logic suggests that if labor is cheap over seas, then your personal info is for sale and worth three years salary to some of these guys.