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How HP Could Turn a Novelty Into a Revolution
RobotsDinner writes "HP's TouchSmart desktop is cool, but a blogger suggests it could be the beginning of a revolution if HP were to finally make the move of ditching Windows and building a Linux distro around the TouchSmart UI. 'Hello, HP. The UI of your latest TouchSmart computer says something about you. You may not have recognized your own weaving-in of meaning, but it comes across quite clearly if one reads just right: You want out. You want to escape the world of Windows to which Microsoft has sequestered you for the better part of two decades. Ah, but you can. No longer does Bill Gates stand guard outside your cell ... It's time to ditch Windows and build a Linux distro around the TouchSmart UI ... Your captivity of innovation under Microsoft is over. You're free. Free to invent, as you might put it.'"
A pure Linux fanboy wrote that blog post that made its way to Slashdot's homepage. He just wants HP to put Linux on the hot new product, when really this is a Windows Tablet with a few new cool apps writen for it.
I think that's a pun. ON MY INTERNET.
Not sure how this qualifies as Slashdot frontpage worthy. Sure its a neat UI that hides much of the visable portions of windows, but its still windows, with all the good (app. compatibility) and bad (M$) that it brings with it. "Just" switch it to Linux is a hell of a lot harder than this rambling blogger makes it sound.
Thoughts on tech, Software Engineering, and stuff
It's hard enough to kick a nasty crack habit, especially when you have to worry about your dealer coming after you for a beat down.
HP (or any OEM) may not be able to piss off Microsoft, since a significant number of HP's customers demand MS. MS is known to get threatening with the licensing for companies the stray too far from the Microsoft ideal of exclusivity in the consumer market.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
You can love your pc,
but just don't "love" your pc :P
A fanboi needs to remember to take his meds imho.
...
Somehow I just don't think that the Hack'n'Pack MBAs/PHBs/Little White Ball Wacking Executive Management types would go for it. Something about risk and grubbing for dollars and doing this would be too risky and wouldn't grub enough dollars for the company. Not to mention I don't think all of them put together would have enough "vision" to pull this off.
From personally using/selling this computer for about a month, I can say it is nothing more than a gimmick. It's nothing more than a glorified tablet with a glossy screen. If HP were serious about trying to revolutionize an industry, chances are, they'd have to partner with Apple to use their patents. As it is now, the screen is uncomfortable, buggy, and horrifically unprecise. Plus, the computer itself is nothing special, being built on the same platform as their DV5 series of laptops. The processor is just a Core2 Duo T5750 which barely clocks at 2.0ghz. They try to make up for the mediocre processor with 4gb of 333mhz DDR2, and fail. The screen has no multi-touch capability, so using an on-screen keyboard is a pain because response time shows as much latency as someone trying to play WoW on a 28.8kbps dial-up connection. HP will never turn novelty into a revolution. These companies do nothing more than market the norm with a little more glitz, and unfortunately, the age of the keyboard and mouse is not yet over. Give me a capacitive multi-touch screen with haptic feedback that runs linux with Enlightenment or one of the other eyecandy desktop environments on a low profile desktop form factor, then we'll see if touch screens are the way of the future.
You may not have recognized your own weaving-in of meaning, but it comes across quite clearly if one reads just right: You want out. You want to escape the world of Windows to which Microsoft has sequestered you for the better part of two decades.
Really, because a touch-screen interface means I don't want to make Windows machines anymore.
It's time to ditch Windows and build a Linux distro around the TouchSmart UI... Your captivity of innovation under Microsoft is over. You're free. Free to invent, as you might put it.
How does this even make sense? How does the choice of OS limit innovation (save for, say, the iPhone OS)? Why would HP's TouchSmart UI work better on Linux than it does on Windows? What can Linux, as an OS, do, that Windows can't?
The whole blog post is babbling incoherence.
I'm a huge fan of Linux like a lot of the other people here, but I don't see this happening. Linux has made huge strides to make media work out of the box, but the average user is still either too stupid or lazy to want to install proprietary codecs (for the distros that don't automatically) or not be able to use certain media (CNN streaming videos are Windows only, AFIAK, I'm sure there are plenty of other good examples).
Most of the issues are now with third parties not releasing specs for drivers or with proprietary codecs, but the end user doesn't care about that. They want to click play and see something shiny, not go to an error page and try to manually install something. Granted a big company like HP can choose hardware carefully or write their own drivers, but they can't fix all the bells and whistles that users want.
Until there is enough momentum to force Linux compatibility with third party software, HP won't be jumping to Linux only. That's a fanboy pipedream. The best we can hope for is that they continue to make Linux boxes. Hopefully they'll be profitable and that will increase the market share. If HP goes Linux only it won't be to stick it to Microsoft. It will be to make the most money they can. Microsoft did a good job of standardizing software and adding Linux boxes will mean a lot of secondary support overhead. I hope they rapidly continue down that path, But expecting to get there overnight is simply ludicrous.
lol: You see no door there!
Free to pay $50 for 2 ounces of ink is more like it.
Not completely sure about this, but i think the biggest problem with the windows is actually the own windows users.
They re not exactly OS experts, but they kinda command microsoft with their money, and so far they didnt quite guided it well.
I imagine what will happen when this userbase starts to commmand linux too.
You know, there are plenty of really good blogs out there but if we're going to continue to see more and more blog posts represented as legitimate news articles can we please flag them in some way so I can just chose to ignore them?
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
Is it my imagination, or has everyone gone crazy with flash, and now ever web page has to have some element of it that causes your speakers to make embarassing sounds at work? Why can't websites like HP's, which you figure people will look at AT WORK, friggin' WARN people that it's going to start playing music, or give your opportunity to MUTE *before* the msuic starts playing?
If this keeps up, I'm either going to stop surfing the web entirely, or, pull my speakers out. Unfortunately, these days some machines come with internal speakers (like the iMac), so if you disconnect the external speakers you activate the internal. Guess the volume controls are there onthe computer for a reason but still, when I'm on the web I'm there to read.
If I want to watch "TV", I'll turn on the goddamned TV, thank you.
Even Slashdot's front page has started having ads appear that make noise. Can't you just wait until something that's loaded with ads, like say 'Weather.com' starts having multiple ads playing sound simultaneously? Yeah, that'll be pleasant.
Never mind Web 2.0 -- I'm starting to look fondly on Web 0.2 -- text on a grey background.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
Speaking of places touchscreen would be useful, I'd love to have a touchscreen in my kitchen, maybe fold up under the cabinet and pop down when I want it. I could hook it up into my home network, maybe even have a wireless keyboard option. Or perhaps even have a keyboard built into the counter - looks like ordinary counter when the keyboard is off. Press a button to activate and a back light underneath the ceramic of the counter pops on and you can see the keyboard.
Yeah, that would be great, in terms of technical coolness, in terms of customer satisfaction, in terms of business sense altogether. But I strongly believe that they won't do it. They'll stick with Losedoze Shitsta, and when the next version, Losedoze Excalibur, which will be 10 times bigger, 50,000 times slower, with one tenth the features, twice the price, and infinite more times the annoyances and bugs, they'll go with that, too. And so it will be for the version after Excalibur, dubbed Losedoze Titanic. And the one after that, Losedoze Supernova, Business Professional Workstation Edition, which will be one of nearly a thousand different editions, including Home Basic Desktop Edition, Home Professional Laptop Edition, School Student Desktop Edition, School Teacher Workstation Edition, Construction Site Professional Desktop Edition, Legal Professional Weekend Hot Rod Racer Novice Edition, and many others. Which one is right for you? Entire encyclopedias will be committed to answering that question. And that great company that was started by two dudes in a garage will continue delivering that garbage on otherwise perfectly good equipment. Because PHBs never learn.
McCain/Palin '08. Now THAT's hope and change!
You may not have recognized your own weaving-in of meaning, but it comes across quite clearly if one reads just right: You want out. You want to escape the world of Windows to which Microsoft has sequestered you for the better part of two decades. Ah, but you can. No longer does Bill Gates stand guard outside your cell...
What in the world makes you think that HP so desperately wants to break from MS? This is an enormous assumption. This is the assumption that just about every "year of Linux" article on Slashdot depends on and the blaring truth is that most people don't want to see MS fail. Most people don't see Gates as the evil borg. Most people don't give a damn about the bullshit OS wars. There are an extremely small number of people who have this anti-Microsoft hard on and even fewer who would be willing to buy a product just because Linux is stamped on it. HP knows this. There's a good reason they're making billions as we sit, blog and bicker about technology.
And I have a hard time taking someone seriously who acts like Bill Gates is the reason that companies offered up Windows or stayed loyal to MS. What kind of oddball reasoning could make someone make that jump in logic?
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
What the hell is the rambling vitriol in the summary? Sounds like a very bad fantasy writer wrote this.
Bot Assisted Blogging
Now that I've established my street cred for you young whippersnappers, let me tell you how it is:
I'm sure you've noticed how there's nothing new coming out of Hollywood? Just the same old stories, over and over again. They've even resorted to crappy old TV shows, trying to find a new angle. There are only so many ideas out there to build on, and in about 100 years, they've gone through them all at least once.
Same thing with video games: I used to repair arcade games, so I saw every game imaginable for 15 years. They too started repeating after a while, didn't they?
The same goes for Operating Systems. There's only so many ways you can engineer a user interface, because Humans are as finite as everything else in this godforsaken Universe we live in -- and what's worse, we're just slightly smarter animals than the rest of the meat on this planet. That's one of the main reasons that Windows has been so succesful (aside from marketing skills): It caters to some of the lowest common denominators of humanity, and it does it well.
I will assign MacOS as being the second place OS, and all flavors of *NIX as third place. But there is a common thread between all of them, now isn't there? It's just like Hollywood, or video games, or novels for that matter: There are only so many ways you can do a specific thing, and after a while the themes just repeat. At their most basic, all GUIs are basically the same, aren't they? There are specific details that are different, and I'm not taking technical issues like stability into account (because the average end-user doesn't give a damn about that until something goes wrong). In the final analysis, you have icons, you have a desktop, and you have a pointing device and you click on things with it. The rest is all window-dressing (excuse the poor, unintentional pun).
So: Don't be bringin' your "revolutionary OS" talk around here, laddy-buck. Now be a good boy, and get off my lawn, K?
Anybody else find it amusing that those who take Linux seriously to the point of delusion (often caught posting these idealistic "head-in-the-clouds" diatribes) have become the slashdot equivalent of hippies?
I record my sleeptalking
I imagine what will happen when this userbase starts to commmand linux too.
The nice thing about Linux is that it's much more modular than Windows. So, corporate America may insist on a dull Windows-like desktop, but geeks and innovative companies can do something completely different with the UI while still retaining compatibility with mainstream applications.
The question to me then is how far off is the tablet, and will it be running Windows. Right now, as far as I can tell, most desktops are running Windows, and will continue to. The two reasons for this is desktops are cheap to supply to ever worker, and Windows has a huge number of legacy applications. It is the same reason big iron is still around.
At home, though, people seem to want cheap simple machines. Laptops are cheap and simple. As prices for touch displays and solid state memory fall, however, we could find ourselves in a world where a tablet is cheaper to deliver than a laptop, and in that world an good interface is going to be everything. A good interface and a cheap or free OS. I can't imagine that anyone would pay $50 for the OS on this $200 machine.
So yes, HP will continue to ship desktops and laptops that are windows based, but I believe we are five years away from the tablet for home use, and MS does not have a compelling product to run on it. If tablets begin to sell they will hack something together, just like they did for the OLPC, but if companies like Apple and HP sell at the high and low end of the market, it might be hard for MS to break in. Then we might have a nearly MS free market segment, and interesting things might happen.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
HP, Dell, et al don't care about selling Linux, they care about selling computers. If linux helps then so be it. So far, Windows has been what helps sell computers given all the application compatibility that's out there. If the OSS proponents would pull their heads out of their asses and listen to the potential customers then perhaps things will change. As long as these developers insist on dictating how things are going to be then the rest of the world is going to ignore them as well.
HP could do it (or even hire RedHat or Canonical to do it for them). And yes, it would mean more control for HP.
;)
The question is: do they want it? Do they want more control, or do they just want to follow where Microsoft is headed and eat the leftovers?
Of course, it would mean that Windows software, that most PC users just expect to run, wouldn't work anymore. But let's look at this differently: the situation is not going to change. Windows software is not going to run on other OS'es (even with Wine or emulators, it will never be perfect). Thus Dell, HP and Lenovo are stuck in a vicious circle: continue selling Windows, because it's what people expect, any it will remain what people expect; or break the pattern: sell another OS and tell people it's different but just as good. You know, most sane people are not fanboys and don't care what OS they have as long as it gets the job done. And guess what, GNU/Linux applications get the job done just as much as their Windows counterparts, and would be even better with some big companies supporting it further. Then, why should HP keep selling an OS that limits them? I can't believe HP is satisfied with selling Windows -- or any other tech company for that matter.
Let's imagine Dell or HP decides to replace Windows with, say, a customized Ubuntu-based GNU/Linux distro. Then, only then, people will come to know that PC != Windows, and that just like there is "Mac software" (ie, software for Mac OS X) that won't run Windows and vice-versa, there is a third category of consumer software that runs "Lunix or was it Leenux?" (ie GNU/Linux). The name matters little, because the model of distribution of software on GNU/Linux distributions is very different from what exists on proprietary platforms: the package managers and repositories make it easy. In most cases, you don't try to get a specific application anymore, you try to get the application your distribution has chosen for the task you want to perform. And that model, I believe, if a lot simpler to understand for most people, as soon as they are willing to let go of the unnatural habits they have caught using Windows.
So why HP and why now? Well, the TouchSmart interface sure is cool -- cool enough to warrant a big change. Since people perceive it as a massive paradigm change, you might as well use the opportunity to change OS. Remember, once one of the three big PC manufacturers will truly switch to GNU/Linux for consumer PCs (and that's possible only if they commit to it), the others will have to react in one way or another.
Will it be Dell? They distribute Ubuntu on some PCs, and even ship it with the licensed codecs, but they don't seem to me as willing to take the Apple route and compete with Microsoft frontally. Also, they don't have anything specific to offer, except pretty cheap prices.
Will it be Lenovo? Certainly not. Lenovo, now separated from IBM, does not strike me as a driving force, they are merely followers.
But it could be HP... in a sudden outbreak of common sense, a burst of memories of its past glory, out of pride and fatigue of being Microsoft's dog when it comes the consumer market... Yes it could be. HP is actually very committed to Linux, they are platinum members of the Linux Foundation (same level as IBM, Novell, Intel...). The blog poster thinks TouchSmart (or its next iteration, now) could be the opportunity to make the jump. To commit further. It would be risky but the rewards could be great, not only for HP, but for the whole industry.
Now why is the response so negative here on Slashdot? Easy. I have come to understand that most Slashdotters haven't tried a GNU/Linux distro for years. They still think it's 2001. They still think the "Linux Desktop" year didn't happen -- because in their mind it was to be a year when, magically, half the PCs worldwide would have started running GNU/Linux. No, it's just a question of maturity. There are some rough edges, but Windows has some to. Nothing can't be worked
I doubt at those prices HP is creating a revolution.
Much more interesting is the EEE Monitor PC, which looks to be around $500, is a whole lot sleeker than that HP thing, and also function as a PC. Given ASUS' history on the EEE, there's a good chance it will run Linux.
http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/05/asus-intros-the-eee-monitor-all-in-one-pc-says-more-eee-models/
So, in the age of multicore computers, you want HP to dump one dinosaur that somehow escaped from a 20th century museum of ancient technology for another that escaped from the same museum? LOL! What are you, an OSontologist from hell?
There is indeed a crisis of innovation in Silicon Valley. It's a deep malaise caused by the aging baby boomers who drove computer innovation during the last half of the 20th century but lately have run of ideas simply because they are too old and set in their ways. Those old computer geeks are still in charge at the various universities/labs and their idols and gods (e.g., Alan Turing, Charles Babbage, Lady Ada Lovelace, Frederic Brooks, etc.) are still worshipped by the computer academic community. Their antiquated and obsolete perspective on computing is being taught to the younger generation as I write. (Mod me down and see if I care)
IMO, what the computer world needs is not more of the same crap but a seismic paradigm shift and there is only one way to do it. The old computer nerds must be forced into retirement and new leadership must be brought in. The new mandate should be to reevaluate the computing models and paradigms of the last century and reassess their continued adequacy to the nasty problems that the industry is currently facing, such as the parallel programming and software reliability crises. If they are found to be inadequate (no doubt about it in my opinion), they should be replaced. Ask yourself this simple question: How is the Turing Machine relevant to parallel computing and how is it helping to solve the crisis? Answer: It is neither relevant nor helping. Telling it like I see it, as always.
Rebel Science News
Your generalizations hurt your credibility. That mindset is exactly why Windows is on the vast majority of desktops as opposed to some Linux variant.
Your generalization is just plain wrong as well. They are millions of smart, well-educated Windows admins and Windows users out there. They go to work every morning and get the job done and then go home.
What would make you think otherwise?
If only it were possible to replace the dull windows like desktop:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_shell_replacement
And just imagine if GTK and QT worked on Windows! Or if somebody wrote and maintained a POSIX compatibility layer.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
its already there and with harddrive space so cheap why not give the triboot option "splashtop" (i.e. linux bios) a made for hp linux distro (without the xandros eeepc repositories BS i.e. DEBIAN) and an istall of vista modori xp virus pron poop.... well you know were i stand. now that would be true customer service...and start a wiki so people wouldn't be calling bob in India so much!
You could easily just write a mouse driver for any distribution there is. That, and the author of this article is absolutely insane and thinks Linus Torvalds is the second coming of Christ or something. It's not a lifestyle, really. It's just an operating system, and porting it to one device or another isn't going to change the world.
Besides, the last thing a PC vendor wants is their own distro (Windows or Linux) to support on their thin profit margins. As for HP, I loved running their high-end hardware and HP-UX 11, but they're not really the "invention" machine they used to be.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
1. What the hell does linux have to do with this? For eff sake, we need editors who filter out garbage like this. Jumping to "make it run linux" every time new hardware emerges is getting reeeeally old. No offense, but I don't think linux has "the right stuff" for a system like this.
2. Everybody knows arms get tired after pushing against a touchscreen held in the typical stand-up monitor position for more than a couple minutes. Touchscreen is awesome (assuming extremely light touch sensitivity, not pound-against-the-screen-and-hope-it-registers), but it only works well and feels natural if you're looking down on it and/or holding it in your hand. Think of it like a clipboard - you'd never stand a clipboard on its "legs" and write on it - you hold it or lay it flat on the desk.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
"HP recommends Windows Vista Home Premium" splattered all over their advertising material leads me to believe that there isn't a chance in hell that HP will release a linux-only computer, even a linux-first computer. They're not about innovating (not any more, at HP); they're about moving boxes and crap printers.
And it is a big ass table.
God spoke to me.
I'm not trolling at all when I say this anonymous blogger has absolutely no idea what's involved with software development. Anyone familiar with the underlying technologies (.NET, WPF, and the Tablet API) knows that the TouchSmart UI code makes up 1% of the GIGANTIC software stack required to make it possible. Running away from windows? I'd say they're doing exactly the opposite.
This brings me to my second point: this person also has no sense of history--Windows OEMs have been doing shell replacement since DOS. Remember Geoworks? I'll bet the Compaq half of HP remembers Tabworks. They used it as their Windows shell from 3.1 all the way through their first year of Windows 95 (I supported in 1995 as a Compaq employee). TouchSmart is way more capable than any previous shell replacement, but what this blogger doesn't understand is that he has endless Windows APIs to thank for that.
WHAT THE HELL? This is SLASHDOT not DIGG! What is becoming of the world?
This fanboy wants HP to attempt to write *more* software?
He obviously hasn't ever used an HP interface for scanners, printers, fax machines, or just any other 250 MB download just to send something to a printer.
Besides, most of the magic on this device is Vista running in Tablet mode, with a few little skins that HP threw together in their typical half-ass fashion. If I got one of these devices, I'd likely format it and just let Vista Ultimate do its thing, running in Media Center mode with a few nifty add-in gadgets.
-David
As someone somehow related with the HP MFP development process, I will say that HP is putting more devices on Windows, from setups that were previously HP-UX based. As seen in the Edgeline series of MFPs (really, starting there), HP includes a copy of Windows CE with the firmware. The interface is larger than on other MFPs, but it was designed to mimic the HP-UX setup, which was still perfectly functional, and could have been expanded to the larger screen. HP has ceased development on several products because they aren't using Windows CE now.
All this is to say, I don't think HP is trying to get away from Microsoft. Microsoft is a large partner and client for HP, and while HP will work on Linux systems as a means of being fairly diverse (but I fear some of managements short sighted ness is stifling/removing some diversity), they do still really like Microsoft, and are using .net C# extensively on the Imaging side of the Business.
Posted Anonymously because of some NDA papers that I don't think fully apply, but it can't hurt to be safe.
ever hear of hpux?
not only is time travel possible, it's irrelevant.
I am certainly not a Windows fan, but the failure of Linux as a desktop OS is pretty much evident. After 15 years, the adoption as far as desktop OS goes is in the neighbor of 2%. So no, I don't see Linux in a desktop happening anymore, although I had hoped back then.
"Kill the beast, NOW!"
Your sarcasm just demonstrates your ignorance: none of the hacks you mention even come close, either in functionality or design, to the modularity of Linux.
(Mentioning the "POSIX compatibility layer" in Windows is particularly ironic, given that it works like shit.)
... but we're talking about the New HP. Remember how Carly destroyed what was left of HP's morale? Now, with Hurd calling the shots, dollar signs glimmering in his eyes, what's good for the shareholders is good for HP. And that means slashing budgets, more partnering with *cough* established industry leaders *cough* like Microsoft, who, well, make us a lot of money every time we sell a PC.
Sorry, but you'll have to look elsewhere for innovation. If it's already a Microsoft product, HP will not reinvent it. Guaranteed.
the problem is that windows in this case is "democratic".
Its not about the smartest user,but the mindset of most users of it that will or not buy the next version.
Sure, but the group that works on HPUX (which I think is in deep hybernation) is probably so far removed from projects like a consumer HP desktop, that we might as well not even consider it HP.
-David
Imagine if someone invented a device where you could interact with the screen without having to touch it and get messy fingerprints and smudges all over.. oh yeah, it's called a mouse, and it's far superior to this mess.
Yeah, that was true with the kind of bulky, heavy tech they had then, mounted with the screen straight up and down. I hear no such complaints from users of Wacoms, including the Cintiqs that are also screens. The key issues are that the pen needs to be very light and the screen should be mounted at the angle a drafting table would be, about thirty degrees from horizontal.
Also, frankly, most a y'all were never taught how to hold a pen properly. Those of us who took drafting classes back in the pen and ink days were taught to hold a pen in the ways that make it practical to work hour after hour, decade after decade, just as draftsmen, illustrators, and engineers had for generations.
It's all about the information. And what we do with it.
Don't know what you mean by "gorilla arm syndrome" but using a stylus handles the first two concerns just fine.
It's all about the information. And what we do with it.
As someone who works within the borg-like world of the "new" HP all I can say is that HP will ditch windows when pigs start flapping their wings and satan straps on the ice skates to head off to work.
Not only are HP too much in the Micro$oft comfort zone, but the state of staff morale as a result of the idiotic management class running the show means that no one has any motivation left for this.
Microsoft has to play in the real world and that means being able to run some shitty app that was written back in the 16 bit days that some company can't live without and won't pay to get rewritten. That means maintaining code that shouldn't exist anymore, allowing "features" that should really have been bugs to continue to operate, and generally maintaining an increasing level of code bloat with every release.
Linux, for the most part, doesn't have that problem because they don't have to play in the real world and so they get to say "screw you" and remove badly coded legacy crap and let anything that depends on it die.
Theoretically this works because all the software is supposed to be open source and people can just fix it(though of course a lot of companies can fix those 16 bit apps too because they own them), but mostly it works because people don't use Linux anywhere where that sort of thing matters.
Look at how much flack Microsoft took for the changes they made in vista and all the stuff that broke, and that doesn't even come close to clearing out all the crap they could have culled.
In the real world people won't change their OS if their app doesn't work/isn't supported on the new version. This applies to linux as well as to Windows, and every other OS that exists or has ever existed.
We still have some NT boxes where I work because some of the software used in that area won't run on anything newer, and so long as they can still find licenses and hardware it can run on they'll continue to do so because changing it would be too expensive(even if they had the source).
If Microsoft got to cull out all the terrible stuff they'd done the way that Linux does it'd run a lot faster and a lot cleaner, and a lot safer, but they can't, so their software is slow, bloated, and buggy.
Whether you are a Linux or MS fanboy, this article seems misguided. In most practical touch screen applications (not multi-touch) the API's etc are irrelevant or not needed. It's simply software design using a "touch" mouse pointer.
Redesigning a complete OS around these notion seems ridiculous to me.
For example, maybe you want a really large MS SQL server. No, I don't want to hear arguments as to why someone shouldn't, people do. Ok so you want something so large, that normal hardware can't handle it. Where do you go? Well, HP would be a good choice. They have SuperDome servers that'll get you 64 Itaniums and a ton of memory to run your humongous SQL databases.
That is just one of many nice Windows solutions HP will be more than happy to sell you for lots of cash. So I'm going to imagine that they are plenty pleased with MS at this point. MS supplies software that businesses want, and they license it to HP to provide solutions for those businesses.
Those are the people HP cares about: Companies who are going to spend a lot of dollars on high end systems (HP doesn't compete so well in the low end market). They are not interested in a Linux fanboy who will scream about how you ought to use MySQL on a bunch of old desktops. Maybe that is the better solution, however HP would much rather sell you a million dollar SuperDome loaded with Windows Datacentre.
You're free. Free to invent, as you might put it.
Except they won't. The Microsoft Mafia inside HP has never been stronger. Not a chance that cord will be cut.
HP doesn't do invention anymore. It was reduced when the Cult of Carly took over and the phrase "HP: Invent" was a cruel joke. Mark Hurd continues to eliminate invention. The new signs haven't gone up yet but the new HP catch phrase is "HP: Acquire".
Dream on.
since everyone is whining about the price of gas, want to guess what HP ink is? Try about USD $6,000 to $10,000 a gallon. Talk about "black gold" (and the tricolors too).
All flash web site. Wait forever for the page to load. I click on "Check out the demo" and it does... nothing. Of course the "BUY ONE NOW YOU STUPID CONSUMER" works just great. Hard sell there, HP. Maybe they're too busy trying to get more spyware/crapware/adware into the demo?
The iPhone UI was designed from the ground up as a touch interface, maximizing the use of space and screen real estate in a portable device. All of the applications it uses were redesigned to take advantage of that interface. With that in mind, just what, exactly, is a Linux-based touch-screen desktop computer going to do? What is it going to do differently? More importantly, just how is it going to do it BETTER?
The disadvantage to the HP is that they've come up with a half-hearted interface with a few applets that lets you manipulate a few things via touch, then drops you back into Windows for everything else. And Windows, for the most part, has no clue the touch screen system exists. Yes, you can still "click" the screen, but all of the teensy-tiny widgets in Windows are designed for skinny, precise mouse pointers and not for fat, dull fingers.
So again, what would Linux do differently? And who's going to rewrite all of those applications to take advantage of the hardware?
Speaking of which, from what I gather the screen uses a "smart" border and not capacitance, so it only recognizes single finger presses and not multi-touch gestures. No pinches, no two finger Jeff Han rotations and zooms. Touch-wise, it's speaking at a kindergarten level. With all of that in mind, and given the limitations of the hardware, I fail to see just how revolutionary the device could be, even if you managed to convince the Linux developer community to to support it.
And without groundbreaking applications to pique a user's imagination, the concept that this computer could "promote" Linux is..., well... totally out of touch with reality.
Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
When was the last time you actually used Cygwin?
The modularity of Linux (and lack of modularity of Windows), whatever it means, is not something that is particularly relevant to its usefulness as a desktop OS.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
Why would HP do that? Even if they wanted to replace Windows, why choose linux when they could just as well build it off HP-UX and receive some fat licensing income?
...can't be revolutionary, it's missing an Apple logo
...and turned off the touchscreen interface after the novelty quickly wore off. The video section doesn't play MP4 files back so two-thirds of our recent camera videos didn't play. The calender component doesn't work with Google calendar so it's fairly worthless to our household.
And all the components use about 400 MB of RAM just idling in the background, even after turning the interface off. (No wonder the machine comes with 4 GB of memory installed).
Overall the machine is very nice though. Its been very stable with only one BSOD after a few weeks.
I thought this was cool when I first saw it but, then I really study it. IO found out it nothing new just a non-mobile laptop with a touchscreen. I thought at first it was the first Microsoft Surface PC. This is really old tech unless you consider making a laptop where you can carry it around new tech.
Those of you of mature age may remember the last time HP tried to foist touch-screens on the public. Remember all those ads with the butterfly on the screen? HP sunk like 240 mil on that disaster.
You see most people soon figured out they did not need to touch on animated butterflies very often. More often they desired to select a menu item, or a spreadsheet cell, and instead got the neighboring one. And after five minutes of this, your arm feels like it weighs a [metric] ton. And as you get more angry, your fingers get sweaty and you start leaving spots on the screen. Which makes you more angry. And so on.
I think what is bothering Tivo is more the fact that clauses in the GPLv3 have been specifically crafted as an attack on them and their business model.
It's not just an attack on TiVo. It's also an attack on the related business models of video game consoles and mobile phones.
I'm puzzled why anyone would want to view high def films through a blizzard of sticky finger prints... Let alone the old arm ache problem...
there are thousands of windows applications that don't work on Linux - thankfully
...wants any innovation or technical redesign.
Looks like you say: Forget any attempts to make computers more reliable and more powerful - let's just use Windows everywhere.
I say, most Unix-OSs are much better than Windows because of their more abstract, structured and logical design, BUT even those are far TOO BAD to lean back and stop developing new operating systems.
So, if you say, Windows is good enough, then I would like to never ever hear you complain about computers that do not work. I don't want to hear you complain when you have been waiting for some 6 hours to get your damned train ticket, because the Windows PC which should have printed it does not work.
Because that just serves you right if you choose to use bad products instead of better ones.
And if you think, Windows is good enough, just because your home PC does not bluescreen, then you have no idea what real reliability and security really means (never seen IntegrityRTOS? OS/400? VxWorks? QNX?).
"Is it my imagination, or has everyone gone crazy with flash, and now ever web page has to have some element of it that causes your speakers to make embarassing sounds at work?"
I think you mean annoying. Embarrassing is the sound of passing gas.
Unless touchsmart has X compatability it would be of little help to Linux. the last thing Linux needs is an incompatable UI system and fragmentation in the UI system. This would only create more confusion and a bigger mess. X is a well defined standard and its best for backwards compatability to stick with that.
Why no hack off a limb while your at it? TBH who can see holding your arms out all day while working on this or worse still craning your neck and having it on the table top. No to mention that if you have a small number of attachments it soon gets lop sided.
He said: "By the way, Sketchpad was the first system in which it was definitely discovered that the light pen is a very bad input device because the blood runs out of your hand in about 20 seconds and leaves it numb. In spite of that it's been reinvented at least 90 times in the last 25 years." Did he ever consider it was the position of the screen that was the problem? I haven't heard of a lot of problems from artists when sketching and painting, I use a writing pen a lot on a desk or table or my lap, and I am not aware of drafting tables being horribly non-ergonomic. Frankly, I think a comfortably-positioned and angled screen might be less stressful than a key board and mouse.
So that settles it, this site has been officially taken over by MS enthusiasts? ^^
You do that and install Vista, because that would really be the insightful thing to do according to your moderation points, as Vista is the most streamlined OS, perfect for portable devices using slower CPUs.
Geezus...
Promote true freedom - support standards and interoperability.
When was the last time you actually used Cygwin?
Cygwin is not a "POSIX compatibility layer", it's POSIX emulation on top of Windows. It was a lot of work even to get it to the flaky state that it's in.
The modularity of Linux (and lack of modularity of Windows), whatever it means, is not something that is particularly relevant to its usefulness as a desktop OS.
You're absolutely right: it isn't. To get a good desktop OS, you can simply write a disorganized software turd and throw lots of engineers at fixing it and keeping it updated. Microsoft and Apple are both examples of that.
It is, however, highly relevant to what we're talking about: whether Linux is in "the same prison cell as Microsoft", and Linux is not. The supposition was that once masses of customers started freezing features in Linux, Linux would be stuck as much as Windows. But it is not, because Linux already has demonstrated that it's more flexible than that. The same Linux components run on anything from tiny embedded systems to huge supercomputers; all that needs to change is which modules you configure and put together.
Microsoft, however, needs a bunch of wildly incompatible products to even attempt to cover mobile, desktop, and supercomputer uses, and even with that, they are very limited in terms of devices and configurations.
In order for them to see your point, they'd have to see that even in the little niche realm they have here, all the good themes have been used up and turned into theme parks.
Sometimes it's just hard to accept that you live in a time of computing maturity when you really wish you were around during its infancy and when a person could still truly create original things without fear of being derivative.
Transliteration of their Flash intro:
undefined | undefined | undefined | undefined | >> undefined
HP TOUCHSMART
THE COMPUTER
AS YOU'VE NEVER
FELT IT BEFORE.
>> undefined
>> undefined
>> undefined
The future is unwritten!
(will /. ever support utf8 or character entities?)
Why not? Apple did when they introduced OS X. Windows could easily do the same.
Ironically if Microsoft ever made a really good operating system they'd lose all their customers to Linux and close down, because if you're going to go through all the trouble of rewriting your application you may as well do it for something cheaper.
Like many other large PC manufacturers, HP is paid Lotsa money to promote MS products. Think in the 'millions' of dollars range - which is small for a billion dollar company, but still sweet to the people who execute those programs behind closed doors. As much as I like Linux (I run Gentoo, Ubuntu, etc), there's no business model that HP could adopt that would make sense to it's shareholders - even with new products like the touchsmart, where the demand is already high with Windows software.
HP's PSG value chain is geared entirely towards producing Microsoft systems; that means they have agreements, processes, and most importantly, people who will resist ANYTHING that moves them outside of a Microsoft universe.
all well and good, but I'm still have a bad taste in my mouth about touch screens after my iphone didn't come with a special dialing wand even after I mashed the keypad.
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Since I don't know anything about trust law, can someone tell me if there is an anti-trust issue here?
This is the question I sent.
Comments:
Sir/Madam -
I am interested in the TouchSmart. I read a blog post suggesting that you build a linux version of this device. Is this a possibility? For various reasons, I will not buy a Microsoft product and plan not to do so ever again. If there is no plan for you to provide some choice for this product, I can continue my search for an ideal device elsewhere.
Sincerely,
Here is the response that I received.
Dear :
Thank you for your interest in HP products.
Due to licensing agreements with Microsoft, HP Pavilion and Compaq Presario notebook and desktop PC series will ship with a MS Windows Vista operating system.
There is no option for any other operating system in any HP consumer model.
I apologize for any inconvenience you may have experienced with this issue.
The CTO HP TouchSmart IQ506t and IQ506 / KQ437AA#ABA feature:
-Next generation touch computer
-22" diagonal Brightview widescreen
-Built-in web cam and mic for video chat and conferencing
-TV tuner, dual-format ATSC/NTSC, remote control
-Total memory slots: 2 SoDIMM
-5 in 1 memory card reader
-5 USB 2.0 (2 front, 3 back), 1 IEEE 1394 (front)
-Wireless, low-profile keyboard, wireless optical mouse
-Headphone (front), line-in (back), Digital Audio Out (back)
-256MB NVIDIA GeForce 9300M GS HD
-ENERGY STAR qualified and EPEAT registered silver level
-Wireless LAN 802.11a/b/g/n & Bluetooth(R ) enabled
-10/100/1000BaseT network (Ethernet) interface
-Touch-enabled HP TouchSmart software bundle
-HP Pavilion software bundle and HP Total Care Advisor
-One-year limited hardware warranty. 90-day limited software support.
-HP Ambient Light for your workspace built in
-Integrated High Definition audio speakers (2.0)
-Cleaning cloth
Information on these products is located at the following websites:
http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/computer_can_series.do?storeName=computer_store&category=desktops&a1=Category&v1=All-in-One+PCs&series_name=IQ506t_series
http://www.shopping.hp.com/product/rts_desktop/rts_desktop/1/storefronts/KQ437AA%2523ABA
You may purchase this product or other products directly from Hewlett-Packard. Please visit our web site at:
http://www.shopping.hp.com/
You may also call 1-888-999-4747.
To locate a Hewlett-Packard authorized reseller(s) in your area, please visit our web site at:
http://hp.via.infonow.net/usconsumer/index.jsp
You can also purchase an HP service agreement, known as a Care Pack. For more information and details about Care Packs, please visit our web site at:
http://www.hp.com/hps/carepack
The web sites above were sent out with no spaces in the addresses. They will sometimes arrive with spaces where they should not be, due to the way the email sends. You may need to copy the web site addresses, line by line, into your computer web address window and remove the spaces. I apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.
I hope I have thoroughly answered all of your presales questions. Please reply to this message if we can be of further assistance.
For your convenience, you can also call our Presales Department at 1-800-752-0900 (8:30am - 8:30pm, Mon-Fri, and 10am - 7pm Sat, Eastern Time). Our Hewlett-Packard representatives are trained professionals who can help you decide