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Jerry Seinfeld Will Plug Vista
Barence writes "Microsoft has signed up comedian Jerry Seinfeld to its $300 million Vista PR blitz, as it attempts to turn around the negative perception surrounding its operating system. Reports suggest Bill Gates will also appear in the ads, which, given the comedy timing he displayed in his 'Bill's Last Day' video, and the deadpan manner of Seinfeld, could result in a huge hit for the company." Reader Zarmanto notes in his journal that "Mac users might be quite amused, considering that (like many other TV shows) the set of Seinfeld always had a Macintosh prominently displayed in the background."
Please mod parent -5 Banned... Jeez
Roughly half my comments are never submitted. You may be reading the better half...
Clearly this is simply meaning that Vista has stolen enough ideas from OS X to make even a make user endorse it.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
Yes. And after a long hard days filming, the stars of the show would all use that computer to surf the net and read Slashdot, because that's the kind of introverted computer nerds they were.
So, this could either be a great move on MS's part or an illustration of how woefully out of touch with popular culture they are. Seinfeld hasn't been on the air in over 10 years at this point (new episodes at least).
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 is the magic number.
Who use this buggy, slow Operating System?
George Costanza. That way he doesn't have to work. He just tells his boss that his computer is slow so he can't get much done.
"Mac users might be quite amused, considering that (like many other TV shows) the set of Seinfeld always had a Macintosh prominently displayed in the background."
Just an FYI, mac users are pretty similar to PC users. Most of us just don't care.
Have they realized Vista is an O/S about nothing?
with my .45.
"Man is nothing without the works of man" -- Helvetius
I can think of a much more appropriate choice.
mmm, brains.
http://rocknerd.co.uk
No, the parent should be moderated as incorrect. Jerry Seinfeld was offered $5 million per episode to do another season of Seinfeld and turned it down. So no, he won't just go wherever the money is.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 is the magic number.
Instead of paying already rich celebrities to pimp out Vista, how about invest that $300 million into developing a SP2 that fixes the damn thing already.
Since Seinfeld always had a Mac on his desk in his show. In fact, if you look closely he had the latest model new Mac every year.
I'd always heard that Seinfeld was a Mac guy, and that's why there was always some model of Mac in his "apartment" on the show, i.e. it wasn't just standard product-placement.
Guess he's being paid a shitload of cash to hump Vista...
sig has been sent away for a few small repairs...
First version: "George doesn't like computers. George is getting angry!"
------------
Second version: Newman is sitting at home watching TV and eating cheesy puffs, his phone rings...
Kramer: "Why aren't you at work, buddy?"
Newman: "Luckily for us, the US Post Office has 'upgraded' to Microsoft Windows Vista. Mouahahaha!"
Vista has established a reputation as "the operating system you don't want". People hate it. People that haven't tried it hate it. Some people sit around and worry that someday someone will make them upgrade to Vista. An ad campaign simply can't compete with people talking to others about how much they hate Vista.
It's funny, but I've never heard people openly talk about how much they hate a Microsoft product before. Personally I think Microsoft has made a LOT crappier products than Vista. Outlook, IE6, and Exchange are a lot worse than Vista.
AccountKiller
He'd be perfect...If you don't use Vista, you're an idiot!
What?
When ReactOS becomes needed. Right now we don't need a Windows clone. We need to move away from open source software is a cheap knockoff of Windows and Mac. We need our own identity. Linux gives us an identity other than Windows.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
They wanted Lucy and Desi to push Vista but they never returned Steve Ballmer's call!
This is only just the beginning. The next step is the new catchy theme song by Wynn Newton.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Clearly Bill Gates has enough money to hire a comedian who hasn't had a TV show in nearly a decade to "endorse" his product. Unless maybe that Bee Movie stole its best ideas from Apple, too.
--
make install -not war
Which operating system are you referring to? Because if it's Vista, then I've got to say that I don't find it at all annoying. It works quite well, the security's a welcome addition. The biggest problem is that they don't have the equivalent of a command line "sudo", but then again, I'm one of the very few people who use a windows command line I'm sure. Overall, Vista works quite well for me, much less of a headache than Ubuntu. Just my 2 cents, but I get the feeling that Vista had more bugs before SP1, and now people are just angry that it wasn't a huge leap over XP.
Wouldn't that generate better PR than using a deadbeat comedian?
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Whyyyyyyyyy. Do people. Use LINUX? That has Seinfeld all over it.
I've been wondering, when did you first become fan of my show? ...
-Yeah, hi Mr. Gates. I bought your new Windows XP program and about to install it as an upgrade. Do I need to make a boot disk?
-That's a very good question....
----
I wonder what, if anything, did that appearance on Frasier show has done for MS?
You can't handle the truth.
Given his sensibilities about not doing any more Seinfeld episodes, I would have guessed that he of all people would have better sense than to associate himself with such a crappy product and company, especially as a comeback.
I guess the money finally ran out from the endless re-runs and DVD box sets eh Jerry?
I'll be pretty interested in seeing how this goes. I find both John Hodgman, the guy in the I'm a Mac and I'm a PC ads for Apple, and Jerry Seinfeld funny. Or at least, I found Seinfeld funny 10 years ago when Seinfeld was on. I haven't seen any of his newer stuff (the bee movie), will the guy still be funny?
Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the war room!
Windows is dead ... those who are still using it or creating clones of it are irrelevant. Its time to wake up and move on, because no one gives a shit about it.
Why would people help something which runs Windows applications?! I thought you guys wanted to get AWAY from anything Microsoft-related!
If anything, call me back once ReactOS can run Diablo 2, Starcraft and Final Fantasy XI without any problems. No, I won't/can't contribute code. Damnit Jim, I'm a gamer, not a programmer!
From TFA"...could result in a huge hit for the company." A "big hit" as in "did a lot of damage", or a "big hit" as in "everyone watched the commercial and upgraded to XP anyway"? Hint to BillG - I just bought a new Fujitsu V1020 laptop, and the MAIN reason I chose it was the ability to change over *immediatly* to XP. I have a Vista DVD you can shove up your input device.
Chaos maximizes locally around me.
Maybe Microsoft could have used their money to pour extra resources into the development of their next operating system. Like, put some effort into researching why most users seem to loathe Vista instead of pretending that everything is FANTASTIC.
Isn't Seinfeld's entire career a show about hanging out with a group of pathetically petty backstabbers and cheaters, who waste every opportunity to ever do anything worthwhile, and instead just stick to dirty tricks and scams?
Like Microsoft has never engaged in backstabbing or cheating to get ahead. Not to mention dirty tricks and scams?
Then when people like Vista it'll be a self advertising product...
But maybe doing that would take admitting that there are problems with it and nobody wants to be seen to admit that.
I'm still not going to upgrade to it. Maybe download it, but not upgrade to it. And even then I'm going to use vLite on it to death. And the only reason for me to even have it would be to have DX10.
a few witty humor, and im gonna turn all the pcs around me to vista, just like that.
are kramer, george and jerry gonna come and fix the pc issues that my close circle is gonna have afterwards ? dont think so.
Read radical news here
Oh shit an ad! I'm peeing my pants right now! Committing to enjoying 30 seconds on TV and committing to adapt to an upheaval of what you depend on daily for crucial tasks are two completely different things, and a quick joke will not ease the tension most people (not to mention businesses) are feeling when they have to consider making the switch.
Twinstiq, game news
It works quite well, the security's a welcome addition.
What security? You mean that little pop-up thing asking you "are you sure you want to do that?" every time you click something. The little pop-up that annoys people to the point where they begin to just ignore it, or figure out how to turn it off? Or is there some other amazing new security features in Windows Vista that I'm not aware of?
Good idea, and maybe we'll get some fun or funny ads out of it.
Unfortunatly, it's too late for Vista. If they'd done this at Vista's first release, then it would have worked.
Heck, with Windows 7 right around the corner, by using Jerry with Vista, by associating him with Vista, I can't help but feel they're wasting what potential he has to draw people to what they're having him push.
...because Vista is a joke.
"What's the deal with the Vista upgrade for Windows? Upgrades are supposed to be better and faster."
that MSFT is still stuck in 10 year old routines than their current, major corporate decisions such as this one. Perhaps it's time for some creative Linux artists to come out with some Penguin TV commercials - but what percentage of population will get the /.-style nerdy jokes?
So MS is spending $300 million to counteract the negative image of Vista. Well good luck to them. I think the image is well deserved. Admittedly, Vista on new machines isn't bad; however, on older machines, it is much slower. Even if Vista solves all initial growing pains, most consumers just don't see the value of upgrading.
While previous generations of Windows required users to do some upgrades to their PCs to use the newest version, the magnitude of the upgrade has not been as great as XP -> Vista. I think this is mostly due to the long 5 year gap. When upgrading users from 98 or 2k to XP, most of the time it just required some more RAM. If more drastic upgrades were required (CPU, video card), the components were easily obtainable. Contrast this with XP -> Vista: Even though my computer meets the recommended (not mimimum) requirements (CPU AMD 1.1GHz, 512GB RAM, etc), there's no way I could turn on all of the features of Vista without major upgrades. The problem is that I can't upgrade my CPU (Socket A) through a retail store. I have to go to eBay to get components as my computer is very old. Even if I get the upgrades I still couldn't use some of Vista's features. So like most consumers I have three choices:
For now, I'm choosing #3 until my hardware dies.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
So, when are we going to see all games that are released for Windows simultaneously released for Linux? As far as I can tell, this is one of the main things holding Linux back. Wake me up when that happens because the day it does is the day I'll never use Windows again.
We'll make great pets
Jerry who?
on people who know i.t. shit, this pr stunt is not gonna have any effect much like the same.
.... but, the shit people are doing with pc setups are SO varying in numerousness and nature that nothing mac does can be compared to what pc is.
...........
(duh, i just remembered late macs are intels with macos. so much for pc-mac distinction)...
yea, hip, and all that, yea, pc is a geek and mac is hip and with a mac you can browse your music, load them to your ipod, create family albums and this and that, and do design work too
those kind of ads only can coerce less technologically keen people into 'style'.
sorry mac fans. i respect you people, and even quite respect the design work you do (many designers work on mac), but thats about it. for all the rest (and even design) there is still pc.
Read radical news here
Isn't Bill's Last Day pretty much just a clone of Clinton's Final Days?
The biggest problem is that they don't have the equivalent of a command line "sudo"
Seriously? That's the biggest problem with Vista?
For quite a few years it has been my observation that Microsoft is first and foremost a marketing company. So things like this seem perfectly valid. As long as their don't use those dollars to spread FUD, seems like a fair move on their part.
"Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: BlueScreen
OS Version: 6.0.6000.2.0.0.768.3
Locale ID: 2057
Yeah, Vista is da bomb.
And it just keeps bombing.
n/t
Looks like some M$ fanboi modded you down for being correct.
Vistas "security" features are pathetic and too little far too late. Joe Sixpack might take it seriously "Ooh, aah, dis noo operatin' systums got increased securitah!" but at the end of the day it's just security theatre.
Debian FTW
Jerry will plug Vista? Like popping a cap in it's ass? THAT WOULD RULE!
The little pop-up that annoys people to the point where they begin to just ignore it, or figure out how to turn it off?
The same could be said of any security feature. Good security's hard, and I've found the vista pop up to be no more annoying than the ubuntu one. I haven't used a Mac in years, but from what little I remember, it seems like it still has the pop ups. So, your two actual points seem to be that it pops up more than necessary and that it can be turned off. The first is a problem with other companies requiring administrator rights when they don't really need them, and the ability to turn it off is just giving people more options. So where's the problem?
The posted article is flamebait!
All the following posts are inflammations!
This is not news for nerds! It is not slashdot worthy in the least. Who cares about what Jerry Seinfeld advertises? How is that newsworthy?
As if Vista wasn't hilarious enough already!
Clearly seinfeld is upgrading - I don't think I've ever seen a mac newer than 1993 or so in his apartment. Powerbook Duos and LCs were nice at one time, but not anymore...
... hiring some better programmers and project managers to make the next Windows work problem. That and stop paying all licensing for DRM and then ask the DRM people if they want to give it away for free of if they want it not included in Windows.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Really, who ever tought a big company like MS would hire a comedian to erase their marketing and development mistakes?
I've been talking Vista up lately too!
Why? Well I just built a new PC (2.83ghz quad core, 8gb RAM, 2x1tb hard drives, GeForce 280 GTX) and decided to take the plunge and stick Vista on it, amazingly I've not run into a single glitch, which is rare when building a new PC from components. I've found Vista better than I expected, which is not to say a lot because my hopes weren't high for it in the first place but without wanting to sound like a Microsoft fanboy, and I know many would be shocked to hear these words here, but... Vista really aint all that bad.
I'm a rather late adopter with Vista, I generally adopt new OS' first day so this is the first OS I've held back on due to many horror stories. Perhaps also it would be more problematic if I wasn't installing it on a brand new PC (i.e. no 64bit drivers for older hardware etc.) but as I've used it so far I have to give it a thumbs up.
I'm still not going to upgrade my 2nd PC or my laptop to Vista though, because due to all the horror stories I've heard with Vista I'm still reluctant and as mentioned above am concerned that slightly older hardware may run into problems. One things for sure though, if you don't need any legacy support, are building a new system from scratch and intend to use mostly modern applications (I'm using Office 2007, Visual Studio 2008 and more recent games as well as the usuals like Winamp on it only really) then it really aint a bad OS at all.
Of course, I've also ordered an extra pair of drives for the system which I intend to use to install Ubuntu on as I'm hoping that will also be an equally pleasant experience on my new kit but as I develop with ASP.NET professionally (PHP personally) then it's a little inconvenient to switch to Ubuntu full time unfortunately. Still it's early days, I've only been using my new machine just over a week and all though I've been putting it through it's paces hard due to being off work for the week and trying various new games and such on it it's still early days and it could yet still dissapoint I guess ;)
Who use this buggy, slow Operating System?
George Costanza. That way he doesn't have to work. He just tells his boss that his computer is slow so he can't get much done.
You know, if Vista came with a hideaway under-the-desk bed, I'd probably use it.
The bed, that is, not Vista.
Momentarily, the need for the construction of new light will no longer exist.
There's only so much you can do when people hate your product before trying it. Chevy's been battling this for a couple years now. They hold focus groups to look at new/prototype designs and the ones with the Chevy 'bowtie' logo consistently score lower. They even show the same model twice slightly modified in some way (different angle, different color) and adding a Honda or Toyota logo drastically improves its score. Consumers dont want to buy the same re-hashed crap over and over. You eventually have to release quality products.
I dont think Vista's all that bad, but reputation is powerful.
I just can't get over the feeling that I'm waiting for a punchline.
Perhaps this time the punchline is "Better than XP/Mac/Linux!!!" or "This works!!!"
greed@All_Evils:~#
I installed Vista for the first time on a new system today, so far I'm having no trouble. Turning off Aero and setting the theme to Windows Classic and it's pretty much good ol' XP with improved security.
"There are people out there who refuse to upgrade Vista and instead run XP. I mean, who ARE these people?"
They should care -- they pay for that. Macs don't show up by accident -- they show up because Apple pays for them to show up. When you buy a Mac, part of what you pay goes for Apple to buy product placements.
Just FWIW, the last time I checked Apple had the largest product placement budget of any computer maker I could find. At least at that time, HP had something like 10 times the computer sales, but less than one third the product placement budget.
Source, please.
As far as I can tell, Apple's product placement "budget" consists largely of making flashy-looking hardware that style-conscious Hollywood set designers want to use. They officially deny paying anything for placement.
(I have heard that they give away freebies, though. Supposedly that's how the Macintosh Plus got into the Scotty scene in Star Trek IV)
The US free market: two halves of a government-granted duopoly are free to set the market price.
This is the main reason for my comment. It's about game software and those few windows apps we like. Dual booting linux and React = greatness.
Thanks to whoever deleted(marked down) my comment.
Sorry, my cat brushed the keyboard as I was hitting submit. The actual link is:
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/techinvestor/industry/2007-03-08-apple-marketing_N.htm
The US free market: two halves of a government-granted duopoly are free to set the market price.
Jerry: Hi, I'm a PC.
Bill: And so am I - but deep down inside, I wish I was a Mac.
Jerry: Well, try Vista, and you'll be one step closer.
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
When you guys can write something on a website that doesn't look like a Chinese ESOL wrote it and stop spreading FUD about Linux...actually even then I can't be arsed with something that has taken 10 years to get to release 0.3.6 alpha.
Debian FTW
RUNAS doesn't exist in Vista?
(I don't know, I've never touched it...)
to sell a joke?
That's the biggest problem that I've had with it, yes.
spending karma for your reading pleasure here.
Read radical news here
The problem is that users learn to ignore the pop-ups, and they happen so often that most users can't even tell if it's because of their own actions, or those of a malicious attack. Because of this, the messages serve no real security purpose, since even if someone were to maliciously try to abuse someone's computer, the user would probably just dismiss all of the pop-ups without a second thought. Also, most of the 'security' pop-up windows are not from other programs requiring administrator rights, the majority of them come from the operating system itself, for example you have to go through a couple of them just to open the device manager.
For lack of a better signature...
Didn't they try this with Jay Leno for Windows 95?
Ah yes, here we go.
I guess it was more at launch, then after launch.
"Hay guys, I hear Windows 95 is fast enough to handle all of OJ's alibis at once!"
...this monumental event, Microsoft replace Vista's system sounds with "slap bass" versions, including a brief but annoyingly noodling intermission that plays every time you select a different window.
Meanwhile, Vista adoption falls through the floor.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
ReactOS will never mimic Windows perfectly, so why the hell should anyone bother dual-booting ReactOS and Linux? What benefit do you get that you don't get without Windows and Linux?
"It's free as in beer" is unacceptable; Windows is essentially free and everyone knows it.
"It's free as in freedom" is equally unacceptable because nobody important gives a shit.
"You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
Securest and easiest version of Windows yet?
Bill, all I can say is yada, yada, yada.
vi +
To not know who Jerry Seinfeld is, one of three things must have happened.
You have been blatantly ignoring the world around you for the past many years. (They still play reruns of Seinfeld on TV all the time. And there's nothing "washed up" about the guy or his show.)
You aren't from the United States, but even then I'd venture guess you hid under your rock more than anything else, since he is a globally known person.
You must be only about 12 years old. Unlikely since your writing abilities exceed those that of a 12 year old.
In any case, I'd suggest you stop being oblivious to everything around you, as you clearly have missed something very very obvious.
Remember Alan Alda and Loretta Swit pushing MS's latest technology back in the day? The good ideas never die...
Ah, I see. You've got Vista set to boot into Safe Move with Command Prompt. Press F8 during startup and you can change that.
Someone at NPR must read Slashdot. Not only did they just run this story 2 minutes ago, but they echoed Zarmoto's comment about the Mac in the background. coincidence? or conspiracy? watch out Twitter has a sockpuppet at NPR.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmEvPZUdAVI
What is up -- with that?
It totally makes sense! Jerry is a comedian and Vista is a joke!
Elaine (with Apple-ish grin): I just bought a Macbook
Jerry (non-chalantly sipping his coffee in front of his Dell): So? I've got Vista.
Elaine (frowning): But this is a Mac, Jerry.
Jerry: But it's not Vista.
Elaine: No, it's not Vista. It's a Mac.
Jerry: It's very shiny. What'd that thing cost you?
Elaine (defensive): What does that matter?
Jerry: One thousand?
Elaine: Jerry...
Jerry: Two thousand?
Elaine: Stop...
Jerry: Three th--
Elaine: $2755.
Jerry: Inclu--
Elaine: Including tax.
Jerry: 1250
Elaine: 1250 what?
Jerry: Vista.
Elaine: But it's not a Mac!
Jerry: It checks email.
Elaine: So does my Mac.
Jerry: Surfs the web.
Elaine: So does my Mac.
Jerry: Makes movies.
Elaine: So does...it does? I thought Windows didn't make movies.
Jerry (shrugs and sips): Vista.
(Door explodes open!)
Kramer: Jerry! The Dell store down the street is selling computers with Vista for $1500!
Jerry: 1250
Kramer (walking over to Jerry's laptop): Oooh, is that...
Jerry: Vista.
Kramer: Niiiice.
Visualizing group of homeless with cardboard signs at freeway offramp...
"Will Endorse Vista for Food"
Me, I'm a Linux user, and it's buggy alright!
...what the deal is with those driver incompatibilities? You've got errors over this way, WAAAAY too many design flaws THIS way, faulty security ALL OVER THE PLACE, I don't know what's going on!
Netcraft confirms it!
I wouldn't exactly call him "washed up." He decided to end his hit show against NBC's wishes because he didn't want it to end up slowing fading away like so many sitcoms. Since then - except for a few projects - he's been largely relaxing and enjoying his huge-assed fortune.
The same could be said of any security feature. Good security's hard, and I've found the vista pop up to be no more annoying than the ubuntu one.
That is not what I have found.
Lets say you want to move an icon from your personal desktop to the "All Users" desktop, you will get 3 UAC prompts. Ubuntu has never prompted me 3 times while performing a task.
The fact that there is no "All Users" desktop in Ubuntu and may require dropping it on all current users desktops and also dropping it into the default profile for new users is a different story alltogether. But I could do it from a root nautilus session and only have 1 UAC prompt to deal with.
vi +
If Vista were merely a service pack to XP, why does have it such a drastically different driver model (which was the cause of most problems for early adopters). Ask the video and sound card vendors if Vista was just a service pack. The reason for any software and hardware incompatibility issues is exactly because it's NOT just a service pack. It was a major release. Vista is to XP, as XP was to 98 - there was a painful transition period there too. And that pain was mostly caused by the software and hardware vendors dragging their feet in producing updates and drivers for an OS that is in pre-release/beta, and readily available to them, for over two years prior to launch day. Only a completely stupid person think otherwise. "Then again, people are that stupid."
Good question. I know and I still ask it.
Not only that, the show just wasn't very funny. I was always amazed by watching a room of 5 or 6 people (my son and his friends) for the length of the show and nobody laughed. I couldn't blame them. The show wasn't funny. The writing was horribly contrived and the delivery of the lines and behavior of the characters was either very annoying or really buffoon like. I never developed an interest in any of the characters to the point where I would actually seek out a TV and watch. I was always puzzled by praise this show got. Reruns of "I Love Lucy" had more entertainment value and comedic content then "Seinfeld."
Personally, I believe the completely unremarkable careers of the entire Seinfeld cast is testimony to their actual talent or rather lack thereof.
An effective "democracy" creates the illusion the people have a say in their government.
HAW
...is the way today's Wall Street Journal characterized the choice of Jerry Seinfeld. The king of syndication must be happy he's not "too hip." I'm sure Steve Ballmer personally nixed anyone who might be "too hip." But the best part in the WSJ was how the campaign will explain how Microsoft's incorporating other software company's ideas into their products enhances the future user experience. I, for one, can't wait.
Kramer: "You can talk, you can talk, you're brave now motherf--ker. Throw his ass out. He's a n---er! He's a n---er! He's a n---er! A n---er, look, there's a n---er!"
Maybe they could have Kramer go off on a racist rant about Mac's. That would be funny.
-Sorry, I left my sig in my other jacket.
--
My parents went to Slashdot and all I got was this lousy sig.
With what?
Then I thought it would be great if they did a soup nazi routine with folks in line, wait, maybe Apple should do that......
Unix, an obscure operating system developed by bored researchers in an attempt to get a better game playing experience.
Makes me wonder if there's been a virus that pops up Vista 'security' messages, like "Vista wants to increase the size of your p3n1s, Cancel or Allow?"
Find environmentally and socially responsible products on http://buy-right.net
Since ReactOS works with Wine. I would bet that if React OS could run 100% Microsoft Windows software. Then 85% to 95% of that software would run just fine via wine.
vi +
This is great news! Now I can bash Seinfeld and Microsoft at the same time! ;)
Seppuku: Your solution to my problems!
My Desktop OS History:
1985-1987 - CP/M
87-96 Various versions of DOS
93-present Linux, FreeBSD
96-98 Win95
98-2000 Win98
2000-2002 Win2000
2002-2008 WinXP
2008-present Vista SP1
Note the linux years there. I was running slackware before many knew linux existed. With that said, am I a minority for actually having a positive Vista experience? Yes, I have a powerful machine with lots of RAM, but so far I've found that I'm quicker to navigate and more productive in Vista than I ever was in XP. I run the 64 bit version and have had very few problems. I think many of the things they have done are a great improvement over previous versions of windows.
Does that make me evil?
Vista was, so will this be.
Perhaps it will promote us to "laugh at our mistakes" for buying a copy?
They could buy 4 gigs of RAM for 3 million of their users... at retail prices...
It works quite well, the security theater's a welcome addition.
Fixed.
Support my political activism on Patreon.
Maybe the security that Moderatorrater refs is the warm, fuzzy feeling of continuing to use Microsoft products. It's the feeling of consistency, something familiar no matter how screwed up it might be.
It's been pretty well documented that Vista failed in many ways.
An effective "democracy" creates the illusion the people have a say in their government.
"Id Games" publishes its software for native Linux. And a few others are starting to follow suit. I think as Linux gains desktop market share (which it is... http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/08/04/2140203/ slowly...) a Linux version of games that have OpenGL engines (i.e. that are not tied to DirectX) will become standard. Nvidia and AMD have already started to make this possible by improving their Linux drivers. http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/08/20/1757227 http://www.linuxgames.com/archives/10527
I mentioned tinker-toys once in a post - now I'm modded down for life.
Well with the intel macs, and the ability now to run windows natively on any model, it really just becomes an issue of design and support. This is especially so when comparing laptops. Apple generally (emphasis on generally) designs their products very well, and they are usually solidly built. So you have a choice between a notably cheaper windows laptop, with equally notably cheaper construction, poor customer support, and the ability to run windows or linux, or an apple laptop with a higher cost, but solid construction (*generally*), superior customer support, and the ability to run windows, linux, or os x. Seems to me that the only legitimate reason to go with a pc is the cost (main factor for the majority of users)
.02
Just my
For lack of a better signature...
Clearly there's some potential for comedy gold here, but I'm fairly sure it's not pro-Vista...
After all, comics are the best at keeping a straight face while making ludicrous statements.
War as we knew it was obsolete
Nothing could beat complete denial
- Emily Haines
No, you are trolling.
And put it towards future Windows 7 PR campaigns. With the way Vista has affected Microsoft's image, when win 7 comes out, it's likely going to be difficult to convince consumer's that it really IS a better os ... we promise this time!!!
For lack of a better signature...
Seinfeld (the show) was very popular in the 90s and still plays pretty heavily on TV today.
Yeah, Vista is da bomb.
And it just keeps bombing.
Oh no, it doesn't - it defaults to restart without showing a BSOD, so there!
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
Thanks for fixing the link, but that article didn't say what you said it did. There were no denials that they pay for placement.
Knowledge is the small part of ignorance that we arrange and classify. (Ambrose Bierce)
Well, he was the writer and star of what has been called the most successful television show in history.
If you don't know who he is, I have to assume that you're woefully ignorant of popular culture.
As for why MS thinks that he'll make for a good spokesperson, well, people like him. He's likable.
For evidence of this, take note that for the last episode of his show, an estimated 50 million people tuned in. That's 1 in 6 Americans. The most of any sitcom in history.
You catch enchiladas by picking them up behind the head and holding them underwater until they don't kick anymore -VeGas
I have a hard time believing that, so nice troll.
But in case you really didn't know...
This man neigh defined the 90's, at least for whitebread America, well him and the Simpsons. You do know who Homer Simpson is right? Because they are about equal on the 'people you should know list'.
You haven't seen him on tv lately (presuming you own one) because he doesn't need money after all the millions he made so he just does standup because he likes it better...he's not washed up by any means, he left the game at the top.
I do recommend renting the seasons of seinfield, if only for the cultural experience and the humor which examines everyday human anxieties.
There hasn't been a live-action comedy that can compete since the show left the air in my opinion, although Scrubs comes close.
"I only speak the truth"
Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
The problem is that users learn to ignore the pop-ups, and they happen so often that most users can't even tell if it's because of their own actions, or those of a malicious attack. Because of this, the messages serve no real security purpose, since even if someone were to maliciously try to abuse someone's computer, the user would probably just dismiss all of the pop-ups without a second thought. Also, most of the 'security' pop-up windows are not from other programs requiring administrator rights, the majority of them come from the operating system itself, for example you have to go through a couple of them just to open the device manager.
To play devil's advocate:
I'm an Ubuntu user. I used to be all cautious about "sudo", but frankly, there's just so much that I don't know about Linux/Ubuntu system administration, that most of the time I'm just copying and pasting commands from webpages, all liberally sprinkled with sudos. You want to be able to listen to mp3s? Type "sudo bla bla bla". You want to be able to watch divxes? Type "sudo yakity yakity yak". Want to be able to sync your music collection with your iPod? You gotta type sudo.
As a novice Linux user, I've become numb to these "sudos", just as you accuse novice Vista users becoming numb to the pop-ups. Just the other day, I had an Linux-knowledgeable friend of mine ask me to change one line of a configuration file to another. The file was writable only by root, so of course, I "sudo gedit", made the change, and saved it. And I have no idea what that change does. I'm just trusting my friend not to screw me over because that's the path of least resistance. I'm sure a lot of novice Windows users just blindly follow the advice they receive from their more advanced Windows using friends.
There's simply no fix for stupid/lazy users. I'm stupid and lazy when it comes to Ubuntu. There is nothing you can do to change that because frankly Ubuntu is such a tiny part of my life that it's not worth the extra time and effort required to actually fully understand all the implications of every sudo command I type in. I don't keep any valuable data on my Ubuntu box. If it comes to it (perhaps because someone gains root access to my box and locks me out), I can simply reformat and reinstall Ubuntu.
Guess what? A lot of people feel the same way about Windows: They simply don't feel it's worth their time and effort to learn all the implications of every prompt they click "yes" to. And if it comes to it, they'll just reinstall Windows. It's simply not that big a deal to them.
And just like your complaint about the majority of the prompts coming from the OS itself, a lot of the sudos I have to type in seem to come from the "Ubuntu OS" itself. You might try and get technical on me and tell me that this module or that section strictly speaking isn't part of the "OS", but really, I don't care. I'm using Ubuntu. I go into the Synaptic package manager, something which, as far as my user experience is concerned, is entirely "part of Ubuntu", and it's giving me that sudo password prompt. So really, from my personal perspective, Vista is no worst than Ubuntu (and Ubuntu is, IMHO, the best Linux distro ever), but it has the added bonus of actually being able to run all the Windows-only apps which I simply refuse to give up.
Then ask said video and sound card vendors why having an RC version of Vista that was damn near identical to the Final Version for a year didn't allow them enough time to put out decent drivers. Blame MS for their mistakes (plenty of those to go around) but don't blame the driver issues on MS. Vendors had a very fair amount of time to get new drivers out, and while some manufacturers had no issues doing this, others (mostly, surprisingly, large corporations) just couldn't handle it.
NO MACS FOR YOU! come back one year
...about how to counteract the negative perception around Vista. You ready?... wait for it...
How's about fucking fixing fucking Vista?!?
Fucking crazy, I know!
there are many brands that are solidly built on pc front. asus for example. cheap and rock solid. and there is also eee.
Read radical news here
You forgot to mention that he's an ugly and annoying jew.
This pop up would single handedly bring down every computer owned by a male (and some by supposed females) in mere minutes.
Slashdotters may also remember the big launch of Windows 95 when M$ hired Jennifer Aniston and Mathew Perry to make a lame features/tour video. Hence, the Jerry Seinfeld campaign isn't even something new, but at least here they're copying themselves so it will be funny when Balmer throws a chair a mirror.
Say hello to my little sig.
Some people fixed that problem.. they sell these things now called consoles that play games. They call them things like Wii, PS3, and Xbox and they play games better than desktop computers.
So try this.. instead of buying that ultra expensive and soon to be obsolete Alienware gamers PC (and a copy of Vista), buy a regular PC with Ubuntu and a PS3. Your life will be happier.
Bringing liberty to the masses. - http://freetalklive.com/
What the hell are you clicking that's making UAC come up all the time?
They should sign Krusty.
Hey hey, kids!
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Perhaps Vista is destined to become highly collectable like Henry Ford's greatest failure.
Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
Ah, another complaint about UAC from someone who doesn't seem to have been within ten feet of a Vista box.
I find I don't get UAC prompts any more often than I get the equivalent on OSX or Linux boxes. Most Vista sessions I don't get prompted for admin privileges at all.
Perhaps if you're getting them more than twice a session you've got a virus and the damned thing is just doing its job!
All intents and purposes. Not intensive purposes.
ReacOS has the same problem WINE does: Coding bug for bug compatibility in hundreds of libraries is long, hard and not very fun work.
if jerry pugs vista, naturally, cosmo kramer should plug linux.
... Jeez
lulz
I had absolutly no idea who this guy is, or why him being in a Microsoft ad campaign was noteworthy, but here's what Wikipedia says http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_seinfeld [...] So apparantly this "Jerry" is some old sitcom comedian guy from the 90's? And Microsoft thinks having a washed up sitcom actor pushing Vista will help them... how, exactly? I'm honestly curious.
How old are you? Honestly, I'm curious.
I know Jerry Seinfield. He's sort of from "my generation". I was never a big fan of him, but back in highschool, my classmates would talk about him a lot and re-enact or recite some funny scenes from his show.
Back in highschool, I had negligeable income. I wasn't buying computers, my parents were. I was pirating my software. I'm 26 now. I have disposable income now. I no longer pirate software. I am clearly part of the demographics that Microsoft is targeting, and while I personally was not a big fan of Seinfield, a lot of people in my age bracket are. I think it'll work.
Check it: the comedian "not only used a Mac in the series that made him famous, but closed out Apple's 1997 "Crazy Ones" ad -- which, ironically, aired only once, during the series finale of "Seinfeld.""
Or is there some other amazing new security features in Windows Vista that I'm not aware of?
Yeah, there is, like memory randomization. That, and being so laggy on brand new hardware (fun experiment I discovered when I bought a box that came with vista: uninstall all of the crapware, reboot and start nothing, now right click on the desktop. I shit you not that the "Loading" mouse icon will appear for a while before the menu can be bothered to make it's appearance... ITS A FREAKING CONTEXT MENU, IT'S NOT THAT HARD. Run the same experiment on <any other OS> even on much older hardware and you'll find the context menus appropirately snappy) that I'm actually investing the time required to make ubuntu's wireless work, which, I'm told, leaves me much more secure in the end.
I'm not sure "washed up" is the right term. Considering the ratings he was pulling, you might think he retired the show to lets the others have a chance at some viewers. He probably just wanted the show to go out on top, which it did. Other TV shows made jokes about how empty the streets were when Seinfeld was on or how out of touch people were if they didn't recognize the latest Seinfeld meme.
The nature of UAC is one of the biggest myths about Windows.
I use Vista regularly and UAC popups aren't very frequent. Copying files into protected directories such as WINDOWS are the most common cause for me (and a normal user would never do this).
Other than that, legacy applications (in my case, Delphi 6) sometimes need to be run as admin and therefore throw up a UAC prompt when run.
UAC is a sensible feature that in reality is quite far removed from the bullshit spread about it.
Amnesty International
Your computer seriously has problems. Mine doesn't do that, and since I haven't had any major problems with Vista ('twas preinstalled by HP) I haven't replaced it.
Then again, the machine I have now was probably considered high-end when the model was new (a year ago). Intel Core 2 Quad 2.4Ghz with 3GB RAM...
GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
If 7 people sat in a room for 1/2 hour watching a show that was supposed to be funny and none of them laughed, does that say more about the show or more about the people?
You should work out how many millionaires the show made. At least a little remarkable, that.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
I loved Seinfeld as much as anyone else, but after seeing Bee Movie, its obvious exactly how 1990s he is. Watching repeats of Seinfeld are great, but he isn't exactly current (granted, he would do a better job than I would).
I see this more as a throwback to when Windows was at its most popular... 10 years ago.
and they play games better than desktop computers.
ahahaha oh wow
... are you an extension of the Windows Mojave experiment??? ;)
Fact: Everything I say is fiction.
The reason that Vista has a new driver model was that Microsoft wanted to build DRM into its driver model. Unfortunately for Microsoft DRM isn't really a feature, but an anti-feature. No one *wants* a computer that tries to stop them from copying files.
You are certainly right that the pain of transition from XP to Vista was similar to the pain of transition between Windows 98 and XP. The problem is that the benefits to the upgrade are not nearly as profound. Windows XP was so much better than Windows 98 that people were willing to put up with the difficulties. Windows Vista, on the other hand, has comparatively little to offer. In fact, in several ways Vista is a step backwards. No one wants to pay extra for even more intrusive DRM and a User Account Control that is intrusive without really aiding in system security.
I would also point out that third party hardware and software vendors are not in the business of selling new copies of Windows. That's Microsoft's job. If selling new versions of Windows requires some help from the people that create the hardware and software that people actually use, then Microsoft should have done a better job of making that happen.
It shouldn't surprise anyone that the hardware vendors saw Windows Vista as a chance to sell everyone new hardware. Rewriting old drivers for Windows Vista doesn't make these companies any money, but forcing Vista users to purchase a new printer (or whatever) does make them money. The same is true for software vendors. Patching old versions of software so that they work with Vista doesn't make the vendor any cash. Selling a new Vista-compatible version, on the other hand, does generate revenue.
Microsoft's hardware and software partners were only acting in their own best interest. Microsoft would have done the same thing had the roles been reversed.
The end result of Microsoft's Vista moves is a general trend away from Microsoft. Apple's got nearly 15% of the U.S. computer market and a whopping 66% of the over $1000 computer market. Microsoft still is clearly the 800 pound gorilla, but it no longer can be considered a given that a PC is running Windows. To a certain extent this trend is due to Vista.
Instead of creating growth for Microsoft Vista is causing people to rethink their reliance on Windows, and Microsoft doesn't really have anyone but itself to blame.
you'd have to be a comedian to recommend Vista to anyone. OpenSource is the master of your domain Balmer
Hope is the currency of fools
It won't help, you can fix stupid.
I think it is a bit late for Microsoft to try and turn Vista into a joke.
Carbon based humanoid in training.
I've yet to figure out why that dialog lets me select Yes or No. It only (vaguely) protects my computer from itself, not from other humans.
Or perhaps Microsoft decided to start listening to Richard Stallman. First step, don't require passwords.
Ceci n'est pas une signature.
Just perfect, first Jerry makes a "Show about nothing" now he makes commercials about nothing. Couldn't have been better!
Why bother
Actually, they will re-do the Soup Nazi sketch (here, "The Driver Nazi"), with a Steve Jobs lookalike kindly asking for driver support for his hardware (and some aero dressing, while they're at it), and Seinfeld in an Ahmadeehnedjad disguise, answering, "You're pushing your luck, little man. No driver for you, come back, NEXT YEAR!!"
A World in a Grain of Sand / Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Infinity in the Palm of your Hand / And Eternity in an Hour.
Well, move over MS QA team! AC hasn't had any problems all day!
I believe it is an addition to a single configuration file. Not as pretty, but more scalable.
Semi-automatic amateur armchair Australian philosopher; conjecture ready at any moment...
GEORGE: Yeah. I think we really got something here.
JERRY: What do we got?
GEORGE: An idea.
JERRY: What idea?
GEORGE: An idea for an operating system.
JERRY: I still don't know what the idea is.
GEORGE: It's got nothing.
JERRY: Right.
GEORGE: Everybody's doing something, we'll do nothing.
JERRY: So, we tell them we've got an idea for an operating system that's got nothing.
GEORGE: Exactly.
JERRY: They say, "What's your operating system got?" I say, "Nothing."
GEORGE: There you go.
(A moment passes)
JERRY: (Nodding) I think you may have something there.
Let's say this ad campaign works very well and does as good as Microsoft can hope for. What whould happen in that best case scenario? Microsoft might gain another 1% of market share. Big deal they would hardly notice. The problem for a monopoly is that there is no room to grow. I just read that Mac sales were up 43% over same quart last year. There is no way on Earth PC sales could grow like that. There is so little room for it. When you have 90% of the pie how much bigger can your slice get? Microsoft's only way left to grown to to hope that the entire pie grows but that is limited by the world economy which is not under their control. TV ads don't make the pie larger that just effect the slice of the pie you get.
I'd love to see your sources for those 'statistics' of yours, because everyone I've heard is grossly misconstruing the truth.
The 15% Apple marketshare claim came out for new, retail sales only for a quarter, in the US. This stat didn't including online retail sales, so it pretty much knocked Dell and most HP machines out of their numbers, along with most all other major PC sellers. Again, complete 'Apple-washing' of statistics to make them sound better.
CNN money clearly states Apple's actual market share of sales, which is 4.7%, which mirrors Apple's real-world share.
http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/01/17/reports-apple-slipped-to-4th-place-in-q4-us-sales/
Of all of the honest to goodness metrics very closely mirror the ones of this site. My personal site, along with my company's website's OS stats also mirror these numbers.
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp
Apple has increased marketshare, but only by about 1% of total to 4.8% over the past two years. Vista on the otherhand, has gained 11% total market share over the same period of time, all while XP's share hasn't budged over the past three years.
why the hell should anyone bother dual-booting ReactOS and Linux?
Because it came with the cheap machine they bought from the shop down the street. I believe part of the idea behind ReactOS was to provide a viable (cheap and legal) alternative for small shops and resellers of used PCs.
Georgia Tech, the leader in Chia(tm) technology.
I use Vista and I run in Vista as a normal user. I only get UAC when I install new software or go somewhere on my computer that I shouldn't be like the Windows directory and I start copying files into it. When I do get UAC I have to type the admin password to continue. Sure if I was running as an admin user I would get annoyed with it and probably turn it off, but the point is not to be an admin. So for an average day on Vista doing normal tasks (browsing web, writing documents, play videos, play games) I see the UAC window zero times just as I would see the password box zero times in ubuntu for the same tasks.
The misconception around here that UAC pops up all the time every click is really overblown thanks to Apple sponsorship, ignorance, and the usual anti-MS bias.
So was Bill Gates doing some low-talking? *wlluplgvstaplzkthx*
I hear he has to wear a puffy shirt too.
Homonyms are fun!
You're driving your car, but they're riding their bikes there.
They would have been better off hiring some good local Seattle talent.
May I suggest Rainn Wilson..? He plays Dwight Schrute on The Office.
A recent clip of his works
to the pain of transition between Windows 98 and XP.
What the hell are you smoking? Replace XP with ME and you might have a point, but XP makes 98 look like pisswater. And I'm pretty scornful of MS and its products in general.
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
The biggest problem is that they don't have the equivalent of a command line "sudo", but then again, I'm one of the very few people who use a windows command line I'm sure.
This is my biggest grip also. The best workaround for it I can find is just to do right-click and Run As. Do this to internet explorer to get admin privs without needing to log out.
NewslilySocial News. No lolcats allowed.
Is this a spin-off from the episode where Seinfeld tries to beat a lie detector? "It's not a lie... if you believe it" Steve obviously believes it :)
No, washed up is the correct term
Wanted: Person from Warsaw, Gdansk or Krakow to endorse Windows Vista.
No experience necessary, but must be 3.048 metres tall.
All you want.
A shit-made doll is still a lump of shit.
NO SIG
Makes me wonder if there's been a virus that pops up Vista 'security' messages, like "Vista wants to increase the size of your p3n1s, Cancel or Allow?"
Allow, allow!
"Please mod parent -5 Banned... Jeez"
Oh, come on. It's pretty cool having Michael Richards commenting on Slashdot.
Michael Reed, freelance tech writer.
...but forcing Vista users to purchase a new printer (or whatever) does make them money.
Can you point to a single instance of a company forcing users to buy a new peripheral rather than updating their drivers?
I don't agree that "the" reason for the driver model change was DRM. The audio drive model in Vista, for example, is leaps and bounds better than XP's, if taken proper advantage of. And the new features it offers have nothing to do with DRM (e.g. exclusive mode, app specific volume control, etc).
In what way, is Vista a "step backward" from XP? Barring, perhaps, a slight performance loss on equivalent hardware... Media Center and Aero aren't "free" resource-wise. I'm sure NT 4 would be blazing on a quad core too - does that mean XP was a step backward from it?
Compelling reasons to switch from XP... (for the average home user)
1) Aero / Desktop Window Manager technology
2) A more modern looking UI (RE #1 and #2 - hey - if Apple can score points for aesthetics over XP, then so can Vista)
3) DirectX 10 and beyond
4) Vista Media Center (significant improvement over even XP Media Center Edition, and nothing comparable on OSX)
5) Free DVD decoder
6) Windows Photo Gallery
7) Windows Search
You appear to be suggesting that MS should NEVER make a major update to Windows, unless it is 100% backward compatible. Did you have the same argument when Apple went from PowerPC to Intel? The fact is, Apple users are accustomed to throwing out their whole machine for a new one every once in a while (release of OSX, switch to Intel) so they don't complain as much. When you're as closed as Apple is, you can get away with that sort of thing.
And "66% of the over $1000 computer market" ??? Wow man, that must have HURT to type; it's lack of sincerity so stinging. That's like saying Ferrari has a whopping 80% of the over $250,000 automobile market (WOW - BFD). I'm sure you'd agree that Apple's hardware, while being absolutely VERY nice too look at, is certainly not worth the premium they put on it. I wouldn't mind having that nice looking Apple hardware myself, but the markup - YIKES. It's just a PC under its pretty covers after all. Apple's hardware reminds me of Bose in this way. Attractive products, same-ol' performance without significant innovation, but man... they look nice, and they can sure hook in the suckers out there.
I'll high five you on one point - User Account Control is the bane of my existence and I shut it off the first time a new Vista install boots up (but then again, I'm also not the type of user that it's intended to "help").
I agree that show was a train wreak, I can't even begin to understand why people enjoyed it. When I am over my friends house watching TV with them its amusing to watch everyone scramble for the remote when the show comes on. Its a contest to see how quickly we can make the pain go away.
That show was just down right awful and those who find it funnier or amusing really need to be smacked in the face with a large brick .. repeatably.
...in their own closets before looking for skeletons in Microsoft's closets.
"Mac users might be quite amused, considering that (like many other TV shows) the set of Seinfeld always had a Macintosh prominently displayed in the background."
Perhaps Mac users might want to head on over to the Apple Store sometime and purchase a computer or other item where the little Apple monkeys have to retrieve it from the storeroom. Take careful notice of the handheld devices they use. At least Windows users can claim Apple paid for the product placement, what's Apple's excuse for using Windows Mobile devices to manage inventory like that?
Who are you gonna trust? Microsoft (and Jerry) or your techie geek friend who fixes your PC? In the end, people will go with what they know. The bulk of techie geeks avoid Vista like the plague. I tried it twice, and the irritatingly slow boot times, the glitchy wireless, the endless thrashing of the hard drive on a dual core 2 GB machine finally drove me to a Mac. I've also downgraded everyone I had upgraded, at their request. It has a bad reputation for a reason.
It's amazing how little UAC bugs you if you are not logged in as an administrator.
That didn't stop me from wiping it, though.
"Then again, people are that stupid."
Celebs don't really help crappy stuff:
http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/brandnewday/archives/2008/08/microsofts_turn.html?campaign_id=rss_daily
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=651859&cid=24683041
also see:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=562692&cid=23524480
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=573869&cid=23659029
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=563593&cid=23536795
No it won't. Users don't actually read error messages and notifications *mutters while going around the office turning on systems for updates after having the server give notifications throughout the day to leave computers on*.
Well, I'm about ten years younger than you, so I guess that answers that - he's before my time. Sucks that I got modded -1 Troll for it though, I was hoping I'd get something like +3 Informative. Ah well.
The file was writable only by root, so of course, I "sudo gedit"...
I think proper procedure for GUI apps is to use gksu (or kdesu for KDE). I haven't bothered finding out why, though.
Cause I'm stranded all alone in the gas station of love and I have to use the self service pump.
Only NJ has gas station attendants. ;-)
(Disclaimer: I'm from NJ.)
"Window's Vista is gay... not that there's anything wrong with that."
Honestly, Vista isnt that horrible.
Which is exactly why I shouldn't be required to pay do damn much for it since I already have XP. Vista is ridiculously expensive and there are too many versions, with the cheapest versions not even being the equal of XP Home.
I dream of a better world... one in which chickens can cross roads without their motives being questioned.
You want to be able to listen to mp3s? Type "sudo bla bla bla". You want to be able to watch divxes? Type "sudo yakity yakity yak". Want to be able to sync your music collection with your iPod? You gotta type sudo.
I myself have also been using Ubuntu since Breezy Badger (5.10) and I find with each release that comes out, less and less command line work is required to get things to a point where I'm happy.
To be brutally honest, the only things that require the command line now are little things I've done to make my life easier as a sysadmin, for Mp3s/Divxs/xvids etc. Enabling the Multiverse in sources is all that is required. Which is not enabled by default as in some countries the packages aren't legal.
Skip back to windows world for a moment, user A gets a divx, it won't play, that get told it's a codec issue and some moron links them to a "Partner Software" encrusted codec pack which rights off their machine. Skip back to Ubuntu for a moment, user A tries to play a divx, someone suggests enabling the multiverse in sources (System -> Administration -> Sources) and the next time they open it in totem, it pops and says it needs this codec, would you like to install it? You install it and then the video plays... What could be harder??
# cat
Damn, my RAM is full of cats. MEOW!!
Tell that to the billions of people that comprise Windows' user share.
The file was writable only by root, so of course, I "sudo gedit", made the change, and saved it. And I have no idea what that change does. I'm just trusting my friend not to screw me over because that's the path of least resistance. ...[snip]... There's simply no fix for stupid/lazy users. I'm stupid and lazy when it comes to Ubuntu.
Then you shouldn't be given the ability to run sudo on any box of any consequence. It's that simple. If someone is setting up a computer for you, they should put you in the sudoers file either, or else limit your sudo actions to things you'll actually do.
I don't mean that to be offensive or to bad-mouth you, but it's just that... well, you're right. Lots of people are lazy and/or "stupid" (you may as well say "ignorant" or "careless"), and there is no security system that can stop a lazy/stupid user from compromising the system if they're given sufficient rights. So the answer is generally to not give them sufficient rights.
Of course, this gets complicated when you're talking about the owner of a PC. Still, when I set those sorts of people up, I give them 2 accounts: one with admin access, one without admin access. I give them lots of warnings that the admin account is dangerous, and that they should only need the admin account for installing new software, and I tell them not to install software they don't need. That won't stop someone who won't follow that advice, but at least it puts the idea in their head that not everyone should have admin rights all the time, and that installing software is dangerous.
Of course, making this distinction is easier when you're running an OS that allows you to run basic applications without admin rights.
If it comes to it (perhaps because someone gains root access to my box and locks me out), I can simply reformat and reinstall Ubuntu.
Why would a hacker bother to lock you out of your box after gaining root access? All that does is let you know that you've been hacked. What you have to worry about is someone setting up camp on your computer and continuing to be able to read or alter your data at will without you knowing.
see:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=651859&cid=24683041
also:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=562692&cid=23524480
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=573869&cid=23659029
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=563593&cid=23536795
Who is more important to software development then programmers? I don't write windows apps or work on environmental compatibility because I want windows, as an os and as an environment, to die and I don't care how long it takes. I suspect other programmers feel similarly.
GENERATION 25: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the purple monkey dishwasher
Jerry Swinefeld is paid to think in public about Vista? I'm about to buy a copy of XP retail to live in a Sun Virtualbox VM to run legacy Windoze crap I still need to run, despite the fact that it would be a lot cheaper and easier to buy low-end Vista. Will anything Seifeld is going to say about this change my mind? Or change the collective mind of the public with respect to the perception that Vista is shit?
Tech Public Policy stuff
The tense is correct actually. The line of arguement is leading from premise to conclusion. He is extrapolating from data to speculate of future events. He is not being an historian, but a philosopher. Also, you could argue that in this case, 'wont' is being used in the subjunctive tense.
Reports suggest Bill Gates will also appear in the ads, which, given the comedy timing he displayed in his 'Bill's Last Day' video, and the deadpan manner of Seinfeld, could result in a huge hit for the company."
When you say "hit", do you mean "hit" as in "ZZ Top's Greatest Hits" or is it more a "getting hit with a chair" sort of thing?
I can see it now:
(raises hands)
"It's about nothing!"
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
"Perhaps if you're getting them more than twice a session you've got a virus and the damned thing is just doing its job!"
It must be a MS OS then...
It's not just Vista it's the entire image of Microsoft, due to years of end-user frustration, world-wide. Computers are no longer geek gadgets, but home appliances, like the oven, water tap, tv set. Appliances typically just work - except computers with Windows. Apple seems to be much more like a "just works home appliance", whether it's a laptop or an iPod.
Let's see: Microsoft hires a comedian past his prime from a canceled-show to sell a joke of an operating system that no one wants.
This is easy to fix Microsoft, and for much cheaper than $300M. Offer XP alongside Vista and let the users choose what they want.
Hehe, well one can't always account for the stupidity of the human race.
I don't quite agree with that assessment... but after watching Bee Movie (Biggest waste of time I've ever had.), I began to think maybe Mr. Seinfeld has finally sold out. Apparently he just can't be very funny unless Larry David is helping him with his comedy.
I am beginning to think that maybe Darl McBride was attacked viciously by a penguin as a child.
I find it appropriate that the person who tells us Vista is wonderful is a comedian.
Your being deliberately obtuse doesn't make his premise correct.
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-users/2007-September/000472.html says that the difference between gksudo and sudo is that gksudo doesn't require invoking a terminal first. I.e. you can run the graphical application directly rather than inside a shell.
http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/graphicalsudo also points out that sudo often preserves the original users environment. As a result, running it with an application with a configuration file (very common for GUI apps) can cause the configuration file to end up owned by root (particularly if you run it under sudo before running it as a normal user).
Being Seinfeld a total stupid I'm not surprised.
A stupid representant for a stupid company promoting a stupid operating system....
God! what a stupidity!
Yeah. You can run Vista on a Mac. But why in the world anybody would want to replace an operating system with a screensaver of monkeys throwing chairs, I have no idea...
Mac: Hi, I'm a Mac running Vista!
PC: And I'm a PC running Mac OS X.
Mac: Hey, did you hear about Apple shutting down companies that make PCs run Mac OS X?
McCain/Palin '08. Now THAT's hope and change!
There is no amount of washing or polishing that will turn this pig into a koala bear. It is what it is, accept reality and move on.
... than a comedian who did a whole episode on masturbation.
You, my friend, should be working in the advertising industry. And I don't mean that in a bad way.
There's simply no fix for stupid/lazy users. I'm stupid and lazy when it comes to Ubuntu. There is nothing you can do to change that because frankly Ubuntu is such a tiny part of my life that it's not worth the extra time and effort required to actually fully understand all the implications of every sudo command I type in. I don't keep any valuable data on my Ubuntu box. If it comes to it (perhaps because someone gains root access to my box and locks me out), I can simply reformat and reinstall Ubuntu.
You are right about that, but the difference between sudo and UAC does not even attempt to be in that aspect. The real difference is that it is possible to understand what a command does, and therefore what the implications of running it with sudo are.
UAC, on the other hand, does not share that property. It is quite often impossible to tell what any given UAC prompt does. If you are lucky, it will tell you the executable file name of the process trying to elevate its privileges. If you are less lucky, that file name will be "rundll.exe", which can do virtually anything. Normally, however, it's just a GUID. A 128-bit number that noone knows what it means.
So basically, while sudo doesn't attempt to protect a user from himself (which UAC tries to appear to do, but doesn't actually), it can be used by anyone skilled enough to ensure that system security is not breached. UAC doesn't really do anything useful at all.
It doesn't stop there, though. Running a command with sudo is a user-initiated action. You can pause, browse the web or man pages to check for details or edit the command. UAC, on the other hand, pops up at any time at the behest of some process and blocks the entire desktop while you decide, so you can't even check around what's happening. (It should be noted here that gksudo is just as bad, and I've never been a great fan of it. At least I don't use that vile program myself.)
No drivers for you!
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Neither does your inability to understand his post make you correct.
It's not actually "proper procedure"; gksu is just a GUI wrapper for su or sudo, so that the user doesn't need a terminal to type the password.
i lol'd
Who come up with this one? I mean come on.
Prof. Farnsworth - "Oh a lesson in not changing history from Mr I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!"
why anything critical of macs get modded down here.
Read radical news here
>do you really think a show wants to >alienate/confuse its viewers by talking about an >iRiver?).
What is wrong with saying MP3 player?
Would that confuse someone? Would 'mp3 player' not explain it enough that it is a player that plays mp3's?
People like you are always looking for problems to which they have the solution.
Yeah, well, you're ugly and your mother dresses you funny.
MS has traditionally had a "fuck you, we're MS" attitude towards OEMs and charge OEMs a huge fee to have a technical account manager inside MS to handle problems. They then charge OEMs even more for any consulting work.
Perhaps they need to change this and instead spend money in helping integrators.
If Vista was just broken on Dell computers then people would be pointing the finger at Dell. The only way MS can dig Vista out of the current mess is to roll up their sleeves and help the OEMs fix the problems.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
but sorry, yea, mac platform falls WAY behind the pc platform in terms of capabilities and what you can do with them.
its apparent that you mac fanbois here do not want to hear this, and want to hear forced opinions that give 'equal credits to both', but there is no such thing.
almost all of the it world is being run by pcs, intel based frameworks, and internet is no exception. majority of whats done on any computer related area gets done on pcs.
even your late macs are Intel based, macos loaded computers.
you should ditch the fanaticism and wake up to the fact that you are buying an IMAGE, not functionality, and quit pestering us non mac users with the long tirades about those shiny macs of yours. because the fanaticism and the pestering is really growing annoying. we're not in 90s anymore.
Read radical news here
Try running 98 with more than 768MB of RAM. I for one, am very upset...
What?
Who better to plug an OS that's good for nothing than the man who made a fortune with a show about nothing...???
Actually, the big transition for the non-corporate types was from Windows 9x (pick your flavor) to Windows 2000. Windows XP was an upgrade to 2000, really.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
This reminds me of the scene in the 'Simpson's Movie' where the government gets Tom Hanks to sell the idea of turning Springfield into a "New And Improved!" Grand Canyon.
With the way they are heading with Vista, they would have been better off hiring Andrew "Dice" Clay to try and sell it.
Knowing Google's lust for data collection, the Soviet Union is still alive and well inside the psyche of Sergey Brin....
I am sitting at a Vista x64 box right now. SPECS E8400 3.0 Ghz 6GB RAM 500GB drive 1+ TB RAID 5 array EVGA GTX 260 GPU Intel gigibit networking. Now explain to me what the DRM in Vista is stopping me from doing.
You know, if you keep being interesting and insightful you're going to lose that negative karma you love so much.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Let's put it this way... People would pay more money to see Jerry on stage and fart into a microphone than what you make in a year.
I'm far from a Seinfeld fan but to deny his celebrity status and the weight it brings with it is just plainly stupid.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
Booting? That's what Vista is stopping that laptop from doing.
More to the point Vista is preventing you from taking a screen shot of a video, even one you've recorded from the evening news. A still image of a news broadcast in the context of a discussion regarding the broadcast or its subject is fair use, and Vista is preventing you from that fair use and so depriving you of your civil right of freedom of expression. That's not a minor thing. Maybe you don't care because you don't care to discuss current events or world history in the lens of public media - but some do and they're rightly offended.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
I don't keep any valuable data on my Ubuntu box. If it comes to it (perhaps because someone gains root access to my box and locks me out), I can simply reformat and reinstall Ubuntu.
A lot of people have this attitude, but 90% of them are wrong (and 93.732% of all statistics are made up). Do you log on to your bank / credit card online? Do you let firefox save your passwords?
I've only helped someone clean a virus once, but when I did it, not only did I let the virus scanner clean it, but I told him to find all the files he needed, formatted his computer (you never know if a hidden rootkit might be interfering with the virus scan), created a partition for just data to simplify the next format, if needed, reinstalled windows, scanned the backups for viruses to make sure we weren't loading them back on, and recommended he change his username and password to every financial web site he logged on to, as well as e-mail. You never know what the thing harvested.
Warning: Opinions known to be heavily biased.
Just took a screenshot of a DVD by simply hitting the print screen key. Pasted into paint with no problem. And how is a BSOD related to DRM? Have you every used Vista?
On more than 20 different platforms. This isn't going to surprise you: some of them work well and most of them don't.
No fair using VLC - they don't honor your DRM system. They're open. Try again with Windows Media Center as delivered, and/or with patches. For bonus points post a link to a screen cap with media center displaying TV.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
for example you have to go through a couple of them just to open the device manager.
Uh, no. Just one.
Hmmm... a comedian plugging a joke... I'm shocked!
Than to use a comedian.
There is no Mojave controlled 5 minute exposure that will ever show the true massive failings of Vista other than to have a system infected with it. Considering this tripe is forced down the throats of nearly every common consumer buying a new system, they shoot each foot as it shows up.
M$ creates their own masses of critics who find fresh bottles of haterade every time they have to deal with the failure Vista and find themselves wishing for XP.
So send in the clowns to pimp your joke, the verdict is the same with Vista.
It's a bloated piece of shit.
http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr308/daldredge/Untitled.jpg http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr308/daldredge/Untitled2.jpg Just so you know Vista only runs on two platforms.
Creative.
http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/03/29/046201&from=rss
Maybe he's just getting closer to where the money isn't and Microsoft hit his selling price. You don't actually think Seinfeld, the actor and comedian, was just so jazzed about Vista that he had to tell someone about it, do you?
Now I feel stupid for all those times I used gksu from the command line.
Actually, the big transition for the non-corporate types was from Windows 9x (pick your flavor) to Windows 2000. Windows XP was an upgrade to 2000, really.
Oh yeah, absolutely, and the same for us more techie home users as well. Point still stands though, and Twitter's really getting creepy isn't he?
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
Your computer seriously has problems. Mine doesn't do that, and since I haven't had any major problems with Vista ('twas preinstalled by HP) I haven't replaced it.
Then again, the machine I have now was probably considered high-end when the model was new (a year ago). Intel Core 2 Quad 2.4Ghz with 3GB RAM...
Yeah, my PC finally has no slowdown problems under Vista now that I've upgraded to a pair of Core-2 Extreme 3.2GHz quad-core processors, a BOXD5400XS dual-cpu mobo and 8GB of DDR2 800 memory. It's still not as snappy as my old 3.4GHz Prescott socket 478 machine with XP.
la la laaa, I can't heeearrr youuuuuu
Wait - Seinfeld is Jewish? Wow. You learn something new every day!
- Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
Internet arguments... Even if you win, you're still retarded.
What, they did away with the "runas" command?
What will he be shooting it with?
I'm sure you meant "At least two platforms". Let's go with that because I know there are many platforms that like Vista well. That's not the point. It has been reported it doesn't run well on most of them. It's not well compatible with a great many platforms and applications and you know it. People who don't have it yet don't know which platforms it runs well on but they know it doesn't run well on many that have the Vista sticker and so there's no reliable way to try it with confidence. Since it offers no new benefits the transition must be painless if you expect people to adopt it. There are a lot of people who, for some godforsake reason, want to adopt it, but they can't because either their platforms won't support it, or one of their 125 mission critical apps doesn't. If you would promote Vista you should focus on fixing their uncertainty by getting somebody at work to publish a list of platforms that it honestly runs well on: not platforms that are "Vista Ready" or "Vista Capable". Let me suggest "Vista Plus!" or "Mojave Ready". I'm trying to help you out here - I don't know why. By removing the uncertainty you can eliminate much of the uptake resistance. The "Try it yourself!" theme only works if, when people try it, it works well and on average that's not happening in the field. If your company won't honestly do that then you're digging a deeper hole than you can climb out of and W7, "Based on Vista" is born with an albatross around its neck.
They should probably send somebody over to Novell to help them with the Novell Client compatibility too. Novell just ain't cuttin it and saving Vista may be more important in the long run than driving the last nail into the coffin of Novell's server OS. That'd probably get them some slack with the EC and in other forums where they're facing antitrust issues. The Novell server will die off on its own soon enough because it sucks geoducks.
And your images were not screen caps of TV. They were screen caps of a DVD and to be straight even though most people can't, I can unlock DVDs so they play without DRM even on Vista with Media Player and I'm sure you can too. I'm not even sure that DVD comes with protection. Show me some CNN in HD and then you've got something.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Vista runs on x86 and x64. Are other versions available that I am currently unaware of? Now back to the main point, you have been proven wrong now quit moving the goal posts and admit that you are mistaken. However if you wish me to do your HD test I will provide you with a shipping address to which you can mail a Vista x64 compatible HD tuner so I can take yet another screen shot that shows you have no direct knowledge of the subject at hand. However it would be less expensive for your to do a google search for such screen shots.
Vista: It's an upgrade about nothing!
"Sometimes the road less traveled is less traveled for a reason."
"It's the software equivalent of a complete rectal examination."
"It hates me so much, I'm starting to like it"
"These pretzels are making me thirsty."
Copyright infringement is "piracy" in the same way DRM is "consumer rape"
I use Vista and I run in Vista as a normal user.
That puts you in the minority.
It takes a conscious effort to set up Vista that way.
I know, because I walked my son through the last part of the Vista setup when he got a new laptop.
The first user that is created is an admin. If you want to set up a non-admin, then you have to go back after the wizard is finished and set one up. Most people just start using the system after the wizard is finished and never set up a normal user (which, BTW is much less obvious how to do than it should be).
This renders the UAC pretty much useless, since it pops up and you just click on it and are never prompted for an admin password.
It's a typical half-assed Microsoft move. They had the opportunity to redesign the wizard to walk users through creating a normal account in addition to the admin account, but they didn't do it.
So most users (I would venture >95%) are one click away from malware.
A house divided against itself cannot stand.
There go my hopes for finding the first HONEST rich man.
Exactly.
Here's a MULTI-billionaire hiring another "popular" billionaire to sell his product-
Meanwhile a bunch of poor slashdot users, living in momma's basement are "yuk-yuking" over these stupid rich folls and their crappy Vista.
"Golly! Why don't they just switch to Linux like we use? Don't THEY KNOW? I almost have Mom converted to it now!"
Ummm.. does anyone see something odd about this picture?
Migod, sometimes these weenies are so pathetic...
-Written on Vista-SP1 on a *slow* Celeron laptop, while I'm concurrently doing all kinds of FTPs, Flash-compiles and chatting on MSN - +some JPG editing.
Oh yeah- I'm also watching a DVD-movie on the 2nd screen. LOL! Don't ask me to try THIS on Ubuntu!
.
.
- aqk
F U
The only thing holding me back from upgrading to Vista was a solid comedian endorsement.
Let's review my statement, shall we?
Um, your screenshot was not from the evening news. Although many applications will add DRM to user generated content there remain applications that can convert most content that is protected into unprotected content you can take a screenshot of when it's in Windows Media Center. I know six people with unprotected backups of that very film. The reason why I said to get a CNN shot is because it's more difficult to fake in real time. Not impossible - more difficult. That' doesn't prove your point or mine - it just is. If you don't have a tuner I accept this was your best available reply. The fact is that all commercially available DRM can be circumvented, and both you and I are capable of doing it. Joe Sixpack is the guy that's limited here and that's why I made the point about the evening news - Joe sixpack is the guy that's likely to reference a screencap of the evening news in an email, which is fair use.
So, in short, I didn't move the goalposts and your accusation that I did is unfair. Your problem here is that the text of our disagreement is clearly visible above our posts. I think I've pointed out this fact to you before. It's one of the reasons I really like slashdot. They don't edit.
Y'know, I can do this myself (and I have) but what the heck. Send the address to SlashdotEmail@GMail.Com (forgive the coding, but you get it...) and you'll have your tuner by the fastest available delivery. Do you have a preferred model that works with your cable company? Include a link to your preferred tuner in email, and a code string in your email that matches something in a reply so every slashdot troll doesn't try to scam me out of a tuner card. The first email with an address and the code string from your reply gets the tuner so send the email first. If I don't see an email I'll post that here and you'll have to trust me to be honest on this - or post a reply with a code string and let the trolls take me for a tuner card and then I'll post in all your threads a link here when I don't get a screen cap or at least a good 'shop. Freight being what it is, we'll have to continue this elsewhere so I'll open a journal article at a reasonable time and post a reply here that references it. Try to include the tuner controls in your 'shop, ok? That ups the credibility factor. And try to post it the same day you take it.
Oh, and if there's no Vista compatible HD tuner for your cable company I'm taking the win because Vista isn't even compatible with your cable.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
I guess that sequel to The Bee Movie didn't pan out.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Welllllllll, statistics to YOUR company's site means what?
Nice stats but short of a broad or random sample when your site proffers to a niche audience. [insert joke about ASP vs. PHP or some such thing /]
Is advertising that powerful? I'll admit I haven't used Vista a lot, but there doesn't seem to be any improvement over XP.
You comments only provide invoking Seinfeld's show is the PERFECT thing to represent Microsoft, especially when you add their business ethics into it. :-)
After all, the philosophy of the show was notable "... for not placing a shred of importance on the characters learning moral lessons. In effect, the characters are often morally indifferent or callous. It was often said that the mantra of the show's producers was: "No hugging, no learning."
:-)
The reason that Vista has a new driver model was that Microsoft wanted to build DRM into its driver model. Unfortunately for Microsoft DRM isn't really a feature, but an anti-feature. No one *wants* a computer that tries to stop them from copying files.
Are you just making up random things that look like factoids to support a later argument?
Very little of that paragraph is factual.
The #1 reason the video drivers (at least the major portion of them) were moved to userspace was because its 'the right thing to do'. Video driver crashes are one of the top causes of XP BSODs. Your reasoning lacks support and logic.
And what Vista computer have you ever seen that stops anyone from copying files? Such a thing does not exist.
Windows Vista, on the other hand, has comparatively little to offer. In fact, in several ways Vista is a step backwards.
You really should do some research. Dont think I'm saying that Vista is perfect, but you trying to suggest that there arent massive internal and technical improvements to Vista is just ignorance. Go read up on Wikipedia or any of dozens of industry blogs & mags that documented it. I'm sick of making links to people who cant be bothered to validate their personal mythologies.
Any user of Vista who has decent drivers for it sees immediately a couple things:
1. It performs much better than XP under heavy disk load, in terms of shell responsiveness. In XP, heavy disk load would bring the desktop to a halt, often even freezing the cursor, which is quite impressive. This doesnt happen any more. The shell can still slow down a bit under heavy load, but it degrades much more gracefully.
2. It lasts much longer than XP before needing reboots, especially under a large amount of hibernates and standbys per day. XP would degrade after a couple weeks, especially under many standbys/hibernates per day, and running leaky apps like Eclipse. This degradation is massively reduced in Vista.
3. The desktop/shell is impervious to interruption. XP would freeze the desktop for any number of reasons, usually around network problems. This _never_ happens on Vista.
4. It's MUCH easier to run as non-admin, due to UAC. UAC may not be perfect, but its light years better than explicit RunAs in XP.
No one wants to pay extra for even more intrusive DRM and a User Account Control that is intrusive without really aiding in system security.
What would you suggest as an alternative to UAC? Would you prefer everyone go back to running as admin? Would you prefer that Program Files and Windows directories not be locked down to non-admins, so that UAC wouldnt be triggered as much by rogue programs?
Suggesting that UAC doesnt improve security at all is absurd. If nothing else, it means that everyone runs as non-admin by default. That right there is so hugely massive, and so long overdue in the windows world, that saying that its not an improvement is just loony.
Microsoft's hardware and software partners were only acting in their own best interest. Microsoft would have done the same thing had the roles been reversed.
This is one of the sensible things you had in your post.
Microsoft is nowadays caught in a catch-22 of sorts. It's customers are primarily Computer OEMs and Intel. It's customers really arent the end-users.
This creates some really problematic dynamics for the long term health of the company.
Apple's got nearly 15% of the U.S. computer market and a whopping 66% of the over $1000 computer market.
That is a fairly outlandish claim (the 66% part). You'll need to back that up with something before it'll get anything but laughs. Big corps dont buy 66% apples. Engineering & CAD/CAM firms dont buy 66% apples. IT folks and developers dont buy 66% apples (though developers is probably the single biggest niche demographic that apple is doing well in).
Anyone who works in this industry and sees the buying patterns sees the 66% as absurd.
No, the parent should be moderated as incorrect. Jerry Seinfeld was offered $5 million per episode to do another season of Seinfeld and turned it down. So no, he won't just go wherever the money is.
Yeah, he made that decision -10 years ago-, remember?
The new driver model wasn't "for DRM," but for system stability. Nvdisp is responsible for what percentage of bluescreens again? It's mostly a conceptual extension of Windows XP's user-mode driver framework, and it lets Vista do nifty things like inform you from the system tray that "your display driver has been restarted" rather than bluescreen.
There's no DRM in Vista unless you're playing Blu-Ray discs. Or using iTunes. But then it's more accurate to say that there's DRM on the Blu-Ray discs and in your iTunes library. UAC can be turned off, and it does help security. I work at a help desk, and I've found that whjile most users will click through whatever "this is a virus!" warnings they get, there's also a large minority that freak out when Firefox offers to add an exception for our self-signed security certificate.
Some people say "If I don't know what it is, then maybe I should hit 'cancel' until it goes away." These people are outnumbered by those who hit "OK" until it goes away, but they're the group UAC is aiming to protect. The rest of us are smart enough to know where the "control panel" is.
Not quite sure what you're getting at with a "forcing users to purchase a new printer (or whatever)" to make money. When my dad was going to college, he bought a Windows 3.11 desktop with an HP Deskject 660C (I think that's the model number, anyway.) My Vista rig prints to it just fine - follow Microsoft's guidelines, documentation, and warnings (this is deprecated! this will change! we're not kidding this time! please quit using the 10 year old DirectSound libraries! etc.) and you won't have too much more work to do.
DATABASE WOW WOW
Seriously man, you should stop.
You made up some random claims (probably just parroting Gutmann without any personal experience), and you got called on them.
Man up and let it go.
Microsoft and Vista have plenty of legitimate challenges you can complain about without making random crap up to better fit in with the /. crowd.
You want to be able to listen to mp3s? Type "sudo bla bla bla".
Of COURSE!!! That phish worked for network games. Throw out something like this on the chat window:
Cool new weapon when you type command-q123
...then watch half your opponents instantly drop off the game (command-q quits Mac applications for the uninitiated)
The biggest problem is that they don't have the equivalent of a command line "sudo", but then again, I'm one of the very few people who use a windows command line I'm sure.
The best way to handle this on Vista is to just launch one command prompt as admin, and leave it running all the time. Then you just flip over to it and type your commands, running as admin.
And because lower privilege windows cant send messages to higher priv windows, there's no repeat of the famous old shatter type attacks.
You sure seem to know a lot and use Vista an awful lot to hate it so much. Why expose yourself to these things if you dislike them? If it's job related, there is plenty of work out there which does not require much interaction with Microsoft products.
Of all of the honest to goodness metrics very closely mirror the ones of this site.
On the sites I run, the Mac went from 3% in 2002 to between 18% and 33%.
Vista hasn't reached that yet, but I guess it's hard to get web hits from gas pumps, cash registers, milling machines and everything else running "NT 6.0" (Vista).
Most of the stuff on
So, a has-been is going to shill for a has-been product?
Delightful!
I read this earlier today. One of the justifications for hiring him was to compete with Apple by trying to reduce their image as a "stuffy" company.
I wonder how they think they can achieve that by hiring a middle-aged comedian who hasn't appeared in popular culture for 10 years, and even when he was popular, based his entire routine on whining about pointless social details.
A certain someone who's great at possibly apologizing for something unclear, in a discrete and indecipherable manner.
(p.s. you should stop laughing feeling good about yourself if you didn't instantly think Bill Clinton before even reading p.)
Have you ever even used Windows? Do you even have any experience with NTFS acls or windows security models?
Or are you just joining into the mob mentality here?
The UAC prompt doesnt pop up 'every time you click something'. It pops up exactly and precisely when it should (for the home user use case at least): when you try to do something you dont have the privileges to do.
What do you suggest should happen when some random crappy 3rd party software tries to write user settings to the "Program Files" directory, or drop a dll into \windows\system32\? Should that folder tree be made world writeable to ease your pain about having to answer a popup when something is trying to elevate? Maybe MS should make a shim that allows the system to act like XP running as full privs, but really store that stuff somewhere elese. Oh wait, they did that too.
What should the system do when a piece of malware tries to load a new service into the system services? Should it just let them? Should it fail silently? Should it call you personally and ask you on a case-by-case basis?
If your answer is fail-silently, then thats a fair response. But you've got to understand, Windows goes out the door default config'd for a home user. Home users dont know how to deal with trying to install something and having just 'nothing' happen.
In corporates, where the systems are managed professionally, UAC is configured to either fail silently for non-admin accounts, or to prompt for other credentials, or to not prompt at all and 'just work' if running as admin.
Or is there some other amazing new security features in Windows Vista that I'm not aware of?
As I've said to others, you really need to do your own research before trying to sounds like you know what you're talking about, but let me toss out a few:
- Bidirectional firewall (yes, yes, not as good as many commercial ones, but light years better than XP)
- User accounts are non-admin by default (this is the biggest one)
- Whole disk encryption
- Tons of buffer overflow protections: aslr, canarys, verified exceptions, function pointer obfuscation, etc.
- Full support for NX/DEP (enforced in hardware on x64)
- Application isolation (ie, processes running in a lower-priv'd context cannot communicate with, attach to, inject DLLs into, or monitor higher priv'd processes). This and service hardening below eliminates the entire class of attack that used to be called 'shatter' attacks from way back when
- Service Hardening (Mandatory Access Controls). This should be pretty obvious, its MAC for services, so each service can, in addition to running in a low-priv'd user context, can have a whilelisted security settings just for that service.
- Kernel Patch Protection in x64. This is also huge ... modifying kernel tables and data structures was used by anti-virus and malware authors alike, and is single-handedly responsible for a great deal of system destabilization in the xp and previous days.
- checksummed system binaries (though not personally sure where the chain of trust starts here, its an interesting questions)
- Sandboxed IE7. IE7 runs as guest, without even the privileges that you, as the user running IE7 have. This is huge, in theory. Unfortunately, MS had to provide a way for plugin makers like Adobe (for flash) to have a little more access. And as a result, the plugin that Adobe write just opens up a gargantuan hole in the sandbox. There's some good articles and past discussion on slashdot about this. It's another case where the OS maker is caught in a catch-22, and they actually did a number of things right.
- Many drivers moved out of the kernel into userland.
This is just the big obvious security related stuff. There's also the recompiling of all the Vista binaries with new compiler flags that does alot more overflow protection in the core system files.
Recently, an article came through about some researchers t
Oh well we all know he is good at making something out of nothing.
He is perfectly suited for the role of trying to make something out of Vista.
Also, most of the 'security' pop-up windows are not from other programs requiring administrator rights, the majority of them come from the operating system itself, for example you have to go through a couple of them just to open the device manager.
This is not even remotely true. Right click on Computer, choose Manage from the context menu. You are prompted for approval or credentials (depending on how you have UAC configured). Then you're in, and its done.
Furthermore, how would you suggest the system respond when either the user, or something running under the user account, attempts to do something it doesnt have the privileges for?
Thats all UAC does. If you dont have the perms, it prompts for elevation/approval. How else would you handle it?
I think what you're really trying to say, is that the 3rd party software market in the windows ecosystem sucks, and is filled with software that unnecessarily causes elevations. In addition, many people dont understand that some parts of the Start Menu and Desktop belong to the 'All Users' profile, and non-admin users dont have modify rights to that profile (correctly), and so it causes elevation.
I bet you cant describe a single elevation that is prompting when it rightly shouldnt be.
And if you're in a corporate, and want people who dont have privs to just fail, then you configure UAC to do that.
The thing most people fail to think through is that there really is no good solution for this problem in the windows ecosystem. If you think you have a better one, dont hesitate to toss it out here.
Of course, this gets complicated when you're talking about the owner of a PC. Still, when I set those sorts of people up, I give them 2 accounts: one with admin access, one without admin access. I give them lots of warnings that the admin account is dangerous, and that they should only need the admin account for installing new software, and I tell them not to install software they don't need. That won't stop someone who won't follow that advice, but at least it puts the idea in their head that not everyone should have admin rights all the time, and that installing software is dangerous.
Yeah, thats pretty much how smart people setup windows too. Its easier in Vista, because you can either just let them use the UAC approval prompts for elevation, or still use two accounts. It basically works exactly the same as you describe.
Of course, making this distinction is easier when you're running an OS that allows you to run basic applications without admin rights.
Explain to me what 'basic applications running without admin rights' has to do with the OS?
You've been able to run windows as non-admin quite effectively since the windows 2000 days. I've managed the systems for a number of organizations that did exactly that since then.
The only reason you cant is if some piece of software (rightly or wrongly) says it requires admin to run.
How exactly is the OS responsible for or able to fix that?
MS did what they could in Vista with the app virtualization shims, but thats fairly hacky and easy to break.
What would you suggest they do in place of what they've done?
I complain about all the products I know of that suck. Most of them just don't have $300M in marketing budget to keep them in front of me for so long.
As for work, as I said, I know platforms it works on. I know apps that work with it. If you'll pay me to I'll show you them. That doesn't mean I think it's good. I can show you how to do many other challenging things too that I also think are bad ideas. I once did web development for a newspaper. I would really like the company to offer a product with less suckage, so my commentary may be a plea for improvement.
What I won't do is praise crap for money. For that you need the other kind of consultant.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Er, let me correct that. For the kind of money they're paying Seinfeld I could convince you I really believed Bill Gates was divinely inspired. You offering?
Help stamp out iliturcy.
It doesn't stop there, though. Running a command with sudo is a user-initiated action. You can pause, browse the web or man pages to check for details or edit the command. UAC, on the other hand, pops up at any time at the behest of some process and blocks the entire desktop while you decide, so you can't even check around what's happening. (It should be noted here that gksudo is just as bad, and I've never been a great fan of it. At least I don't use that vile program myself.)
You can user-initiate commands with UAC on windows as well. Through the GUI, right click and say 'Run As Administrator'. From the command line, start a cmd.exe as Admin, and then do your work from there. Same as sudo su - basically.
If you dont like the secure desktop, then turn it off, exactly the same as you avoid using gksudo.
If you would promote Vista you should focus on fixing their uncertainty by getting somebody at work to publish a list of platforms that it honestly runs well on: not platforms that are "Vista Ready" or "Vista Capable".
Ok, you are confusing underpowered hardware with "platforms". Vista will run on x86 architecture and x64 architecture. As we witnessed, Vista is not happy with underpowered hardware, and thats what "Vista Ready/Capable" thing was about.
I use Vista at work, and there was nothing that it is preventing me from doing, and its certainly not preventing me from doing my work.
In the same time, I haven't had Vista's DRM impeding me in any way I would know about it.
Story's been up since 5, and no one made this joke yet?
Anyway - who will take an ad with Seinfield seriously? And considering that Bill Gates is jumping ship - will anybody really believe in what's said?
The commercial may run the risk of being an irony more than a sales pitch.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
Lets say you want to move an icon from your personal desktop to the "All Users" desktop, you will get 3 UAC prompts. Ubuntu has never prompted me 3 times while performing a task.
This is not the case, anymore at least.
I dont remember off the top of my head if this particular quirk was one of the ones fixed between RC and RTM, or fixed in SP1.
But on a current patched Vista machine, it causes just one UAC prompt.
I just tested this on my box here to confirm before I wrote this.
You are correct in that it used to do this on older builds of Vista. It was very annoying.
The 'renaming a file that you dont have access to' was a similar problem, that one I know was fixed in SP1.
Most gas pumps and milling machines run Windows CE or something non-windows. Windows based cash registers are a toss up, as some run packages like "Digital Dining" on top of full blown windows, while other are essentially built like embedded devices.
I'm not real clear on what you're asking, but if you're talking about why it does Yes/No versus asking you for an account with admin privs ... then thats the joy of supporting home users.
The UAC defaults are appropriate for non-technical home users. These are people that cannot remember passwords. At all.
If Windows by default forced them to create two accounts and remember both usernames and both passwords, I can guarantee you that a very large portion of the home users would never be able to log back into their machine, much less successfully elevate with different credentials.
If you WANT it to prompt for different credentials, then configure UAC to do that. It's very simple. In fact, thats how it is in nearly every business where end-users dont run as admin on their boxes.
His tense matches the tense of the statement to which he was responding. He references an event in the past to provide support for an argument for how someone will or will not act in the future.
His tense is not confused.
Runas is there, but it doesnt really work in most (including the default) UAC configuration.
While you can right click anything in the GUI and choose 'Run As Administrator' which forces an elevation and UAC prompt, there is no such equivalent at the command line.
It's extraordinarily irritating.
What most people end up doing is just launching one cmd.exe with 'Run As Administrator' and then just leaving that there on your desktop.
It's like starting up a terminal, doing sudo su - and leaving it there for when you want root without having to do sudo and a password.
Hopefully a command line way to force elevation will be in a future service pack.
My Vista install is very snappy on a Core 2 Duo 2.2Ghz, 4Gig RAM. A friend of mine has the same laptop with XP installed, but his context menu takes ages to appear when he right clicks on something, and its due to some crappy application that he has installed and its added itself to the context menu.
My 3.4Gig XP machine (only 1Gig RAM though) is slower, even with a base XP install, and all I'm using it for is MediaPortal.
Imagine if Apple hired Larry David to refute Seinfeld's Vista campaign! The dialogs he could have with the PC guy...
War as we knew it was obsolete
Nothing could beat complete denial
- Emily Haines
I think something in what you said underlies the difference in security ethos between Linux/POSIX systems and Windows.
In Linux, you need to use sudo, you need to explicitly tell the system, 'I'm going to do root-level stuff here,' and even though you just DO it, you still are keeping in mind that you're poking a hole in security.
Windows on the other hand tries to make everything -- including security -- as transparent to the end user as possible. Or maybe the term I'm looking for is 'opaque' -- you can't see the gears turning behind the window. Poking a hole in that security is inherently difficult for MOST people, but not difficult for anyone who is approaching the 'power user' level... or who has read a web page on 'what to do to make your use of Windows more pleasant.' Unfortunately, these holes, once punched, and the inherent holes in Windows security*, stay there. They're transparent. They allow the user to do work but the security has already been bypassed. Next time a piece of malware wants to access the system, the user has already been conditioned to not think of poking such a hole as being a 'bad thing.'
In contrast, a user is acutely aware of poking a hole in their own security whenever they use sudo.
I am not a computer security expert (yet) but the way a system handles purposeful needed security holes is at least as important as how capable that security is.
* - This is not a dig at windows, every security system needs holes poked in it in order for people to Do Stuff with the computer. To paraphrase Atrocity Archive, the only trulysecure computer is the one that's buried in a vault in the middle of the Nevada desert, is disconnected from any external network, has all input devices removed and the ports physically disabled, and is turned off.
"I am an Adept of Tantric VAX."
Uhhh..... can I get a free tuner too?
Unless you look at him turning down the $5 million per episode as more of an image conscious business decision: if he had taken the money and people started getting sick of the show, that could cause his image to become less valuable, and therefore less profitable in the future.
Vista IS a joke and as all jokes it failed when delivered by an amateur such as Ballmer. But I don't think that Seinfeld is good enough to turn the bad joke into something good.
I read the title and for some reason my brain read it as 'Jerry Seinfield will pull plug...'
--- Users are like bacteria -> Each one causing a thousand tiny crises until the host finally gives up and dies.
strangely in my life i am important and i like free as in freedom.
So I'm assuming they had all the mail addresses in an excel sheet then?
that it was just a joke! called Vista;-)
Wow, a Linux using, Windows advocate with a +5 Insightful...what is this world coming to?
Guess what? A lot of people feel the same way about Windows: They simply don't feel it's worth their time and effort to learn all the implications of every prompt they click "yes" to. And if it comes to it, they'll just reinstall Windows. It's simply not that big a deal to them.
I disagree, while you, an Ubuntu user, don't have a problem reformatting and installing Ubuntu should something go terribly wrong; Windows users definitely don't think that a reformat is "not that big a deal"
To most Windows users Windows *is* the computer and they'll put up with all kinds of things not working and being slow(due to 3 year old viruses still lurking around) with hundreds of popups at every startup from an anti-virus with 2 year old definitions telling them some threat has been taken care of(and they won't find it bizarre that it's the same one every time). They'll always say "yeah my computer needs to be reformatted" but they'll carry on for ages without actually doing that until some more knowledgeable person does it for them.
I know because to a lot of people I happen to be the more knowledgeable person they call on eventually (although I've been out of touch with the windows world for nearly two years now I still have a reputation as the "go to" guy in case of computer trouble among my acquaintances). Some of these computers are in an incredibly sorry state and I really don't know how anyone could still be using them on a daily basis and not go crazy.
Mod parent up. I'm so glad there are still technical people around here on a technical discussion forum.
...is that yes, Jerry's new $1250 Vista PC does perform as well as Elaine's $2755 Mac, but it's the Mac she bought in 1998. And before you accuse me of hyperbole, I've seen new Vista machines replace Windows 98 boxes with 400 mhz PII's that are performance downgrades. It takes longer to boot the system and longer to load any programs or files.
An episode takes substantially more time and effort then a set of ads. And pays a lot less.
Ginga no Rekshiya Mata Each page.
Actually, They are a fine improvement.
What specifically do you dislike or can criticise?
UAC? Yeah, it is annoying, but then software should not be so insecure. You would get annoyed if most *nix software requried sudo or su.
Firewall is decent, encryption is decent.
Whatfrom here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_and_safety_features_of_Windows_Vista
Is so terrible?
Seinfeld is so 10 years ago. You know who might be better to typify Microsoft? That guy who sometimes shows up as the "Resident Expert" on The Daily Show. He's also written a book, The Areas of My Expertise. John... Hodgman... I think? Anyways, he seems like he captures the spirit of Windows pretty well. A really smart company would hire him.
Bitter and proud of it.
I predict you will likely have a heart attack soon. Either while posting on the Internet or while setting up a Windows box. ;)
Allow or cancel
Whats with that???
The funny thing is that ubuntu requires it when you change somethign dramatically on your computer/settings, and vista requires it for everything, including but not limited to: firefox addons, running an updater, opening a package from an unknown source (aka usb-stick). If i had gotten a nickle every time i had to put a file onto my brother's pc and run it then click ok on the UAC, i'd be rich by now.
"no files forrrrr YOU!"
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
"Send the address to SlashdotEmail@GMail.Com" Why would I send my address to my own email address?
A partially valid objection. Omitting Dell and HP is certainly distorting the results. On the other hand, the end of sales for XP in most sales channels (30th June 2008) is new and a statistic over several quarters would underrate that effect. Assuming that there are at least some people who got an Apple because they could not get a PC with XP anymore.
I think statistics for the 3rd quarter of 2008 (and including online retail please) will be a lot more relevant.
C - the footgun of programming languages
If you dont like the secure desktop, then turn it off, exactly the same as you avoid using gksudo.
It's only the same if one isn't using an administrative account to begin with, which is next to impossible in Windows if one actually wants to get meaningful work done.
And yes, I know that's not NT's fault per se, but it's still Microsoft's fault for shaping their software community in that way.
It's enough money to throw ca. 3000 man-years at the problem. That should be enough to solve it.
Fight Frist Psoting!
Browse Slashdot with 'Newest First'!
Yeah, after evaluating Vista by running it for a month on my new laptop the spring of 2007. I pretty much decided that Vista was a no go.
Maybe I will give it a try after SP2. My favorite issue is if I brought up Explorer and typed in the URI for another computer and I had a typo in it. I would have to hard restart the system.
Say I tried to open \\Deskop1\Share when I what I really wanted was \\Desktop1\Share. Well I realized my error and did not feel like waiting 2 minutes or so for the operation to time out. I did what I would do in Linux or on XP. Hit escape, and put in a new URI.
The only problem with that, is once I hit escape. That copy of Explorer is no longer capable of opening any type of local file or net connections. Anything typed into the Run Box wont run. As matter of fact no programs can be run. At that point I figured I had better reboot. The shutdown menu is gone. I can get to the task manager, but there is no option there to shutdown, reboot or log out.
After doing that 2 or 3 times a week. I decided that Vista was not ready for the desktop. I was able reformat and go back to Linux at the same time my boss had me reformat his Vista Laptop to XP.
vi +
They're hiring a comedian? I mean, c'mon, what is he going to do, tell jokes about Macs or Linux? The best they might do is get some sort of ad campaign that somewhat counters the "I'm a Mac" ads. Seems to me that advertising for MS in this way would be more detrimental to JS's career than it would be helpful to MS's operating system.
He's well known, but from what I've seen not particularly well liked. Yes, a lot of people know what Seinfeld is. Quite a lot of people liked the show, and quite a lot of people.... well... hated it. From my experience, the majority might fall into a group of "didn't really follow Seinfeld much, but really liked the Soup Nazi episode." I had some interesting commentary on culture, but in many cases that's what turned a lot of people off (it was a bit dry/irritating in places).
Simpsons did better in this aspect because it appealed to broader audiences (both adults, children, and teens), but I doubt that Homer would make a good advertising sponsor for Vista. Doh!
MS would probably do better if they'd pulled Ross or Joey from Friends, because - social commentary aside - it's more likely to hit the demographics of Vista buyers.
But wait till he notices... it has MAN HANDS!!!!
For me, the name recalls a few yellow animated bee-characters, but - frankly - I had forgotten that Jerry was even in it.
Greed is what has killed Vista. It offers little visible benefit to the consumer other than the "ooh shiney" factor. These days, people are starting to recognize a polished turd when the see what. Those that really would have liked it were *not* on the side of the consumer:
a) Media companies (music/movie): Yayyy... new DRM. Oh sorry consumer, no you can't play that media that worked on windows XP
b) CPU/motherboard vendors: yayyyy .... upgrade. Oh, sorry consumer, no you old computer won't run Vista, why not buy this new one?
c) Peripheral vendors: yayyyy ... incompatability. Ooops, sorry guy, this hardware won't work in Vista. Why not "upgrade"
Yes, MS has been greedy in that Vista didn't offer enough to many to be worth the cost (somewhat like the Blu-Ray VS DVD issues). However, the greed of third-parties is also a huge factor. Look at the issues with Creative, wherein their drivers for Vista (which were slow to even be released) reduced functionality over XP... and then they went lawyer-crazy over the guy who rewrote the driver to fix bugs and enable the "broken" features. And when I say broken, I mean disabled, because in reality Creative was using the lack of features in Vista to try a forced-upgrade.
Greed has been the bane of Vista. I hardly think a past-prime Comedian is going to help that now. In some cases it may even hurt the situation... as a response may very well be "WTF are you doing paying Jerry-F'ing-Seinfeld instead of fixing my broken printer/soundcard/video/etc"
Or is there some other amazing new security features in Windows Vista that I'm not aware of?
Diskkeeper? Service Hardening? How much are you not aware of, exactly?
Seriously, so many people complain about UAC on SlashDot that some of us get the impression that the average SlashDotter doesn't actually know anything about Vista's security features. If the only security feature peple know about is the one which pops up when they're clicking on the pretty icons, they don't exactly sound like experts...
People, seriously, read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_and_safety_features_new_to_Windows_Vista
Note: I don't use Vista, I'm not an MS fanbw0y or whatever, I just don't like posts which contain little more than "it must be right 'casue everybody says it's right so it must be right" which for some inexplicable reason are modded all the way up to +5, Insightful. Can we have an "Insightful for Dummies" mod, please?
Cosmetically, Macs have -for a long time - looked better. They're easily identifiable as a computer, while coming in a bevy of colors all with nice curves and shapes.
Sure, you could get a boxy computer in color-X from some weird vendor, but the Mac is likely oftimes more convenient as "functional" scenery.
Yeah, thats pretty much how smart people setup windows too. Its easier in Vista, because you can either just let them use the UAC approval prompts for elevation, or still use two accounts. It basically works exactly the same as you describe.
Yeah, I'd still set up two accounts. Not necessarily for myself-- When setting up Windows for myself, even then I used to set up two accounts and run my day-to-day applications with admin rights, but with an OS that prompts me for a password (Linux, OSX, Vista) I'll just pay attention to the prompts. But that's because I'm careful and pretty well know what I'm doing.
But for someone else, I'd probably still give them two separate logins. Part of the point, in my opinion, is to drill it into people's head that doing things that require admin access should require special actions. It should require that they deliberately set out to accomplish something, and not just hit "ok".
Explain to me what 'basic applications running without admin rights' has to do with the OS? You've been able to run windows as non-admin quite effectively since the windows 2000 days.
Um... no? I was working helpdesk when 2000 was released, and that's not true. It got to be, after a few years, that it was feasible to run 2000 without admin rights. Even then it took work. But when they were first released, even Office 2000 used to require admin rights when installed on Windows 2000. That instance, at least, was Microsoft's fault, and to me it demonstrates that Microsoft just wasn't thinking about security.
The problem was that, even when Windows 2000 was released, Microsoft was expecting people to generally be running as admin. Everything about the design encouraged this behavior, and nothing discouraged it. All Windows NT (and 2000) did was make it theoretically possible to set up a secure system, but it didn't make it easy, and it didn't make it the default. It effectively required you comb through files, adjusting permissions one at a time, giving write access to particular files and folders in your program and system folders. It was an awful experience.
There are all sorts of choices in OS design that can encourage developers to do things the right way, and discourage them from doing them in bad way. This is especially true if the OS vendor creates/controls one of the major development environments for their OS. So you can't just blame developers.
Vista has some big steps in the right direction. I very much like the idea of something like UAC. I could quibble over the implementation, but won't do that here. The point is that, by throwing up a prompt whenever admin rights are required, they're discouraging application developers from using admin rights.
Me too, it takes a couple of hours and then I was able quickly to click [YES] to all the popup windows about something wanting to do something. I don't even try to read or understand it because often I have no idea what the program does, what it means if I say yes or no. Although the times I answered [NO], stuff stopped working.
the idiots here wont mod up ACTUAL informative comments.
Pretending problems exist is equivalent in-core to pretending problems dont exist and is the #1 reason why even after pumping in $1 billion into linux, the marketshare will probably be overtaken by the iphone.
I think a comedian is the correct choice to advertise for Vista, considering the whole thing has been such a joke.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
More to the point Vista is preventing you from taking a screen shot of a video, even one you've recorded from the evening news. A still image of a news broadcast in the context of a discussion regarding the broadcast or its subject is fair use, and Vista is preventing you from that fair use and so depriving you of your civil right of freedom of expression. That's not a minor thing. Maybe you don't care because you don't care to discuss current events or world history in the lens of public media - but some do and they're rightly offended.
Uhm, quite a few media players on XP use screen overlays, which will result in a blank box where the video should be - nothing new in Vista, nothing to do with DRM and nothing to do with violation of rights.
Apple takes a nobody and makes a star. Microsoft will take a star and make a nobody
Having a comedian represent and promote Vista further solidifies the idea that Vista is indeed a (very bad) joke.
Great move, Microsoft.
It lasts much longer than XP before needing reboots, especially under a large amount of hibernates and standbys per day. XP would degrade after a couple weeks, especially under many standbys/hibernates per day, and running leaky apps like Eclipse. This degradation is massively reduced in Vista.
But not gone? Vista still doesn't sleep reliably? Apple had that sleep/wake thing working in 10.2. I have an ancient and revered iBook (circa 2002, currently running 10.4) that routinely goes months between restarts - I reboot it for major software updates, or to put it into firewire target mode. It goes from lid closed to usable in at most 5 seconds - screen and mouse are visible and working in 2, wireless networking ready a few seconds later.
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
The key difference between UAC and "sudo" is the level of understanding necessary to formulate the action. You may think you are being lazy when you type in the "sudo mount /dev/ipod" for the thousandth time but in reality you are being effective and efficient. You researched the right command to mount and access your iPod. You more know what the command is doing to both the system and iPod to do what you need. After that, using it once or a million times isn't lazy.
UAC does improve security but through "nagging" instead of a systemic fix. You brute force the user away from questionable actions instead of just having the system never bothering to do it. Approach it like a novice user: where all they see on the screen are series of buttons and things to click on with labels they aren't familiar with. A few are good, most are harmless, a few are bad, one special one is catastrophic. When they click any of the buttons, UAC kicks in and says "Allow this happen?" If they user doesn't know what all of the labels on all of the buttons mean, what is the purpose of asking for confirmation? It doesn't add any safety except to warn the user one of the buttons could be dangerous. That is useful information in of itself but fails to reveal to the user which one is the dangerous one.
Or simply put, "sudo" is rarely used because the user is unsure of the command while UAC is invoked for too many commands where the user is unsure of the command being executed. If you clicked on an email that said "save the attachment 'script.pl', type 'sudo script.pl' to win!" most Linux/BSD/Unix users would be like "Huh?!?! No way I'm doing that!" On Windows, in a similar situation user is only going to see a couple prompts warning them something dubious may happen if you proceed where some will be scared off from clicking "Allow" but some can and still will click it. It isn't that the Linux user is "smarter" than the Windows user. It is the UI model is broken on Windows where Microsoft/Vista assumes the user knows what a good action and bad action are. If they knew that, then UAC wouldn't be necessary in the first place.
Sounds like the kind of pseduo-management speak that drives me nuts. I hope the execution is better than the idea sounds.
I don't.
I hope they wallow in delusional apathy for another 7 years & end up sitting out the 64bit era.
I hope they get filed under "boat anchor" as a footnote to the history of computing.
thx e
You can't be that thick. Try symbolset.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
I believe moderatorrater is refering to this security: http://www.neowin.net/news/main/08/08/08/vista39s-security-rendered-completely-useless-by-new-exploit
I think it's a joke. I like the bit about sudo.
e
thx e
I think the point to note here is "sudo commands I type in"
As long as you are comfortable with the consequences of typing things you don't understand into a root prompt & hitting enter, I say go for it. Sounds like a great spectator sport. It is quite different though. Are there 'sudo' commands popping up in your browser asking if you want to install programs/plug-ins?
You are administering your computer with sudo. The other case is about 'user' interaction.
thx e
Aye, he does it for next to nothing or maybe even free because he believes so much in Windows Vista and wouldn't want any of us to miss out.
Let's applaud his unselfish act.
How is this a troll?
Anyway - who will take an ad with Seinfield seriously?
Nobody, hopefully. That's not the point of ads anymore, is it?
Haida Manga
Yeah, I hate it when I'm being earnest and get modded Troll too. Not much one can do about it, I guess.
Listen Jerry. Bania's voice is the voice of a new generation. My generation.
Look, I live Seinfeld's standup and the series, but he's not exactly cutting edge anymore and not a great way to combat the Get a Mac ads.
Um, XP and 2k did that as well. You have to change the system renderer with something like media player classic to VRM9 renderless. I believe its some sort of macrovision.
As a potential lottery winner, I totally support tax cuts for the wealthy
Hey, Bee Movie is a kids movie. My two-year-old likes it quite a lot, and Seinfeld injects enough adult irony to help parents not go mad when they see the DVD for the 145th time.
And all these other folks on every board in the world complaining that their machine that came with Vista ran like a dog until they put XP or Ubuntu on it are just delusional. I see.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
The price was too low.
18 20-minute episodes for $90 million... That's $4166 per second.
Let's say he does 20 30-second spots for Microsoft for the $10 million they're paying him. That's $16666 per second. Four times as much... And I doubt they'll get 20 ads out of him...
Dude, they're sixty bucks. Mow a couple lawns or something.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
More likely than you might think. I'm old and overworked. If I did have a heart attack the odds of it occurring while setting up a Windows box are very high, as I am doing that all day almost every day, even when I'm not working. I spend an inordinate amount of time doing that, which is one of the reasons why I wish it were more fun.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Of course now I wish I had seen the original post in this thread before I replied to your comment. Lame.
I'm sure that booting problem just couldn't be related to an incompatible driver in a third-party product, perhaps "Deep Freeze", could it?
Ok, we'll put you down for "I don't care". The people who scream about DRM do care. They care a lot.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Hey, my gas pumps and registers don't run Vista you insensitive clod!
Seriously, though, I think that you would find more home users using Vista then business users. Many businesses have the option to downgrade to XP, while for the most part the home user does not. I think it would be interesting to see the average daily use of a Vista computer vs an XP computer. I would suspect that on average, the XP computer gets used more.
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I know this is a common refrain, but for most industries, its just not true.
Nearly all of the systems I've managed have been run as non-admin since the Windows 2000 days.
It got easier with XP because of RunAs and some of the community information out there that resulted in the MakeMeAdmin, DropMyRights, and other resources.
It's dead easy in Vista, because you dont have to explicitly invoke it. If the system needs to elevate, it'll prompt you for it, you dont have to anticipate the elevation need.
Are there some industries and job types that require lots of elevation? Sure, but they're in the minority. Developers is a good example, but this will require admin rights on any OS, as you're starting/stopping databases, invoking system debuggers, etc. But even there, you CAN configure your dev environment to, for the most part, run without needing it, based on where you install the apps and the ACLs you set on the folders.
It's not, but I'm not going to argue the moderation on this one. It's more of an interpersonal discussion than a general interest one, and probably should be moved to chat if the two people involved weren't so arrogant and stubborn that they don't mind the whole world see their spat. Modding it down is fair and the moderation system only has so much subtlety.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Are you sure that wasnt a beta or RC version you're speaking of?
I've had this computer as my company's guinea pig for Vista since Nov 2007 (ie, long before SP1) and I've never seen anything like that happen.
That definitely was not the case on this machine, even with the RTM version of Vista.
I did experience other CIFS/SMB related problems though. There was a known issue where you couldnt access windows shares over a PPTP link. So if I'm sitting at starbucks and VPN into the home office, I cannot actually map drives or use server UNC paths there.
It was supposedly fixed in SP1, but only works intermittently even then for me.
So Demetri Martin wasn't big enough of a comic, eh?
"Love heals scars love left." -- Henry Rollins
Maybe no need to buy or steal Windows, but still run Windows games and applications? That is certainly a legitimate goal. And the people you consider important can kiss my ass.
A better question is:
What can ReactOS do that WINE on Linux won't do? WINE is an equally free alternative that provides similar benefits. Here one could claim that redundant work is done.
This said, nobody is forced to contribute to ReactOS and the proverb about not looking a gift horse into the mouth applies.
C - the footgun of programming languages
Try playing a DVD over VGA. It fails the HDCP check.
That's actually all there is to the Vista DRM. A HDCP check on media that request one.
Yes, but how much of Vista's gain was because they couldn't get the $600 notebook with anything else on it. Which is unfortunate, since the $600 didn't have the true minimum specs to run Vista properly (Hence why it is now stilling at home running Ubuntu).
Voting them all out of office, now that's change I can believe in.
Ah, we're going to define platform here. Ok. You're thinking a platform is a processor architecture class. It's not. A platform is a set that includes a specific processor architecture class, a chipset class - and with the chipset common factors such as memory and IO hardware interconnects - and a form factor. It's the base, or "platform" upon which an OEM builds a product line.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
I'm not opposed to switching to console exclusively for gaming but when am I going to be able to use a keyboard and mouse to play FPS's on it? If I could achieve the same level of fast, intense gameplay on a console, I would certainly never use a PC for gaming again.
I would imagine that if you put a keyboard and mouse player up against a person playing a console using a typical game controller, the console player would be at a severe disadvantage (assuming comparable skill level). To aim on a console, you have to push an analog stick and wait for POV to shift based on some delay to aim at a target. By comparison, a mouse can aim nearly instantaneously.
The Wii is an exception to this but in my experience the Wiimote is not nearly as accurate as a good gaming mouse.
We'll make great pets
Wasn't he a friend of George Washington? How modern to use a dead guy to shill for a product.
There are variations depending on what game you are playing.. Sometimes a joystick is better, sometimes a mouse is better.. and technically you can use both on both.
All I'm getting at is Console gaming is cheaper in the long run than PC gaming. A good console will last you 3-5 years and play thousands of games. A gamer PC if they wanted to remain current would be at least twice as expensive and would have to be upgraded at least once in 3 years.
Bringing liberty to the masses. - http://freetalklive.com/
Well, I've never considered sound cards to be "peripherals" but I see that some people do. GP mentioned printers, though.
Wow, I missed that one by a mile. I thought we were getting feedback from Mel Gibson at one point.
You know it's a bad day when you not only RTFA, you fail to RTFS.
Never attribute to Hanlon that which can be adequately attributed to Heinlein.
From teh OP:
Amused? They should be overjoyed! It sounds like Apple's "Switch" campaign actually managed to get somebody to switch. Although I guess getting people to switch from the disasterous train wreck that is OSX Leoptard to the new, shiny, speedy Mojave Vista might not exactly be what they had in mind...
But hey, at least someone switched to the OS they are happiest with- and that's what really matters. Right?
Spend $299m on squishing bugs, improving stability and speed. Release a free update to vista. Use the rest of the money to sponsor a few independent studies, a gaming competition or two etc.
The PR will take care of itself.
Oh, and if Bill Gates is going to be involved, show him as the quirky, nerdy, uncool guy that he is... to the extreme. Trying to change his image to something else always fails and makes him look pathetic. Use his real personality, exagerate it and go for the surreal. This kind of guy getting this reach is surreal already.
A storm of UAC prompts during a powerpoint presentation is always funny because the air mouse makes it hard to click the buttons. It's hard not to laugh. I think if I was a presenter I wouldn't risk it.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
What do people put in their presentations to get attention from UAC?!
Amnesty International
HDCP wasn't enabled for those screen shots.
Macs are for retards. If you hate Windows so much, man up and run Linux. And don't come at me with the whole Mac kernel argument. It doesn't cost 3g to get a high powered Linux laptop.
-RJ the AC
Actally, Vista was more like 98se to ME.
But with the improvments to patching methods, Vista SP1 is much better than any patched version of ME.
Kramer!!! Just imagine, you need help printing a document, and all of the sudden, Kramer pops up and takes a bowl of your serial ;)
They care so much they don't bother providing examples that can't be invalidated with the slightest amount of examination. 'Convict by any means possible' is not a noble or viable course of action...
I care, but I care more that your point is complete bullshit based on the evidence you gave.
Oh let me assure you. This was in March and April of 2007. Vista Professional on both an HP and Dell laptops. I have experienced on several machines this network lockup effect.
It could be our domain and how it is setup. It could be due to the transparent bridge our ISP provided between 2 of our offices. All I know for sure is I have never seen OSX, Linux or XP choke up on a bad URI the way Vista does.
If it would have been an RC or Beta I could forgive that. Since it was NOT a Beta, I don't know how they could release their "Flagship OS Product" where a simple typo in a URI could take out the ability to do anything on a network or safely shutdown the computer.
vi +
There's better kids movies out there... and I did sit through this DVD a zillion times with my own kids. It's not really "adultly ironic" enough.
I am beginning to think that maybe Darl McBride was attacked viciously by a penguin as a child.
I mean he did let Shoshanna slip thru his fingers...come on!
Joe Investor
OK, here's one that will cure you of your laziness and get you off your big, fat ass to actually understand what the fuck you are doing:
sudo rm -fr /*
Enjoy!
You do know that OEMs (and yeah, a small shop or reseller qualifies) get Windows for dirt cheap, right?
"You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
"Other programmers" go where the users are. Your high-and-mighty bullshit utterly fails--or would if anyone actually used the software you wrote; as you brag about being a PHP programmer, I'm going to go with "LOL, no"--because if people aren't using your software, your software doesn't matter.
I write open-source. I write open-source on Windows as well as Linux. Why? Because I want to benefit others instead of pushing my political views on them. Your arrogance is astonishing and rather GNU-ish (and that's never, ever a compliment). Fortunately, thanks to the elegant philosophy of open source, if you did write something worthwhile, somebody could give the finger to your arrogant political stances and port it to Windows. (But you won't, so--hey, who cares?)
"You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
Maybe no need to buy or steal Windows, but still run Windows games and applications? That is certainly a legitimate goal.
ReactOS: free at 75% the efficacy. Pirating Windows: free at 100% the efficacy. Hrm, I wonder.
Let's get real here, my friend. ReactOS will not be "good enough," will never be good enough, while Windows is essentially $0. Do you really think that Microsoft cares that much about piracy on the home desktop? Piracy is good for Windows and Microsoft, because the corporate market is all that really matters. People pirate it at home and buy it at work. Same goes for Adobe.
If ReactOS got to the point where it was anywhere near a Windows competitor (it's not, and frankly, probably never will be), Microsoft would almost certainly release an equivalent (or better) version for $0. And ReactOS would remain useless.
And the people you consider important can kiss my ass.
Oh, so users don't matter? Interesting. I guess you and KDE's Troy Unrau have something in common.
What can ReactOS do that WINE on Linux won't do? WINE is an equally free alternative that provides similar benefits. Here one could claim that redundant work is done.
There's considerable code-sharing going on between ReactOS and WINE. Why are you even talking on the subject if you don't know anything about it?
This said, nobody is forced to contribute to ReactOS and the proverb about not looking a gift horse into the mouth applies.
On this we agree, and I wouldn't presume to be so arrogant as to tell the ReactOS guys to stop; if they like what they're doing, more power to them. The great-grandparent post, however, can go fuck a blender, as can your post's sibling blathering about shoving his politics on his user.
"You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
1. Already on par with OS X. ... have you used Vista? It *is* reliable post SP-1. The benefits of being a late adopter! ... OS X is compatible? With OS X programs maybe... Vista is compatible with Vista programs... what's your point? ... moot. ... oh what's that? The same? OH NO. YOUR MISCONCEPTIONS ARE FLYING OUT THE WINDOW. ... more specific?
2. Already on par with OS X. Generally any performance benefit is due to removing bugs anyways.
3.
4.
5. Yep... you definitely haven't used Vista.
6. Indeed it is, although the networking interface is more annoying than it used to be.
7.
8. You're objecting.
9. OS X is $200. Vista is
10. Pity I can't use those in my games.
11.
12. Cheaper hardware.
You are too fucking pathetic to even live fucktard, enough so that you should consider committing suicide by slitting your fucking wrists fucktard. Not across but down your fucking wrists to fucking ensure you will never have the fucking chance to live.
GO AHEAD FUCKING FLAME AWAY!
You do know that OEMs (and yeah, a small shop or reseller qualifies) get Windows for dirt cheap, right?
Yes, between $35-85 (depending if you're Dell or Joe's computers). On a used machine that sells for $100 to $200 (with no prior validated windows install) it can be a significant price increase (or loss of profits). Heck on a $400 machine that is close to 10% (on the low end) of the sale that goes to Microsoft. Once ReactOS is viable then a lot of these small vendors would have a choice to sell the machine for say $400 w/ React OS or $400 w/ windows (and lose 9%-20% profit margin or risk getting busted by the BSA if they try to "recycle" a Windows install).
Also, lets not forget charities that repair and recycle old machines.
Georgia Tech, the leader in Chia(tm) technology.
What does Jerry Seinfeld and Vista have in common? Nothing? That's right! I mean, Seinfeld was a show about nothing :) And Vista is the OS that does nothing.. "but be a pain in the @$$, resource hog, crashing all the time OS" :)
So, in the end, Seinfeld's participation in Microsoft's advertising campaign will result in?
Nothing!