Always going to have detractors to any thought of a GNU/Linux non-Windows system actually doing well on the mainstream desktop. Ask any fellow Mac user about how long they put up with this from Windows users.
We have different flavors of icecream, why not have different flavors of operating systems or computers?
"The real critique came when Bush decided to invade Iraq. The reason people generally opposed this in Europe is (I asume) that Saddam had made no real agressive moves, and thus the US/UK conducted an unprovoked aggression against Iraq."
And people still discuss "if only" about Britain, USA and France taking action against Hitler in the 30's...Makes for interesting discussion, but thats all passed now.
"If viewed from as a state to state matter, a lot of things in the decision to invade are discussable. However, when viewing the invasion from a moral and philosophical point of view, there really isn't much to discuss."
Morally, if sanctions had been removed and he was allowed to continue on his merry way to re-armanent (and morally, scanctions would have had to have been removed at some point) as he would have done (before anyone says how do you know that, go and live in a country that lives under a real dictator, I mean live, not just visit as a no-nothing tourist, then you will get a greater appreciation of the psyche of dictators, the saying, "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" is so true and then they become delusional), what would he have targetted? Israel for a biological/nuclear attack, and if Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries had not rallied to his "saladin" side they too would have been attacked (arguably he could have attacked Saudi Arabia/Kuwait at the same time as Israel to try and neutralize the allied threat). You never mentioned any side to the argument on moral or philosphical grounds, apart from the the juicy quote:).
"To the best of my knowledge, Egyptian mummies and their relatives and friends and children and grandchildren and great grandchildren have been long dead and clues to the location of these artifacts died with them. That is the reason we are still finding things in Egypt. People who know the location of the WMDs are still alive. If we don't find anything within the next 10 years, it's unlikely that we'll find anything at all."
Give the agents to one person and give them two weeks to get rid of them. Then kill that said person and everyone who is related to him, or is friends with him. Whats the chance of finding it then? Now that Saddam has been caught it will increase
I doubt he had a nuclear capability, especially after the Israeli's took out their nuclear capability, however biological or chemical agents could well have been hidden.
But, last thought...If he had remained in power, if the UN lifted sanctions, signed a peace treaty, would Saddam not have then begun to stockpile and to develop nuclear capabilities? Of course we will never know.
"According to Scott Ritter, former-UN weapons inspector who gave a talk at my school a while back."
Would be interesting if he could have imagined being sent by the League of Nations to Germany in 1935 to check on how well Germany was abiding Versailles treaty? Yes they would have seen a buildup of planes and pilots, but they would have explained it was for Lufthansa (many of the planes, like the He 111 were placed into passenger service). Imagine if the League of Nations had teeth, Germany got invaded and Hitler removed in 1936? WW2 would most likely have been avoided, Japan would probably be like N Korea is today, and people would still be arguing that it was the wrong thing to do, that there was no evidence that Hitler was re-arming, all he was doing was building up his civilian passenger fleet. Of course there are vast differences, but still similarities:).
"Iraq had nothing to do with 7-11 attack. Even Paul Wolfowitz (deputy secretary of defense) can't say otherwise."
Someone else has linked articles that say otherwise within this section.
"It's not know that Iraq had supported any terrorist attack in the world."
They did, answered by last section, go look for the articles as I did not save them.
"No massive destruction weapon was found yet in Iraq."
At least you said yet, this is very true:). Always a possibility that they will never be found, not only because he may not have had them (actualyl doubt this, Saddam and his type wouldn't have given them up that easy), but because they could be very well hidden or totally destroyed.
"Terrorism in Iraq started from null to today situation since President Bush anounced end of fights."
Terrorism or unrest?
Fact:
After Germany's surrender in WW2 quite a number of fiercly loyal Nazi's took up the cuase and started attacking/destroying things much the same way we see in Iraq. It took over 2-3 years to quell these and about another eight years before Germany (at least West Germany) became independant of allied control.
""Old Europe" countries foretold this situation will happen. USA reacted renaming french fries."
The French had belief they could control Saddam just as much as they thought they could control Hitler...
"Of course Old Europe also had important economical interests an Iraq, like USA."
Sad, but true to an extent. But cynically, why risk lives if your country won't get much out of it?
WMD's aren't just limited to Nukes:). Seems like many people were expecting a whole hanger full of nuclear weapons, but WMD's are limited to Nuke's, but include chemical and biological weapons, which can be much more easily concealed, in many cases in small glass vials.
Don't think Osama was ever forgotten...Just he is proving much harder to find. But I am sure if they keep at it, one day they will get him. As if you or anyone else on this board knows anything about the efforts to catch him, Saddam was caught a day ago, but they wanted to make 100% sure it was him first.
I agree, I really hope the US does not start saber waggling anymore than needed.
"But I'd much rather we didn't have to have sacrificed at all."
We all wish that, maybe one day people will find peaceful means to get the changes, or messages across as they want. Guess its about communication on one part.
Its no secret that Saddam recieved aid from many countries, don't just pick on the US and Britain, in fact the ones to most fear more public scrutiny are Germany and France, but especially France as they supplied much more military gear to the Iraqi's. Indeed during the '91 Gulf War most French Mirages had to be used to patrol well away from the frontline as they gave out the same radar signature (and emitted same radar patterns) as the Iraqi Mirages.
But, lets take the years in CONTEXT, not with 20/20 hindsight. The Cold War was still very much going on, and many countries became the battle ground and only now are we paying the cost for the fall out of this.
Doubt many countries would really fear anything he revealed about past relations, but more about rhetoric as in returning to power, or maybe some message to his followers to make more attacks, perhaps this time with some WMD's.
And before people wonder where they are, keep an open mind as really who knows whether or not he ever had them.
"I wouldn't be surprised for a second if they pulled a "Lee Harvey Oswald" and have Saddam conveniently killed or "suicided"."
And Martyr him? Its a hard choice, keep him alive and risk terrorists trying to capture hostages for his release, or have him executed and have many die for his name. Personnally I hope he is kept alive on a place such as St. Helena, that way he can spend the rest of his life in isolation to ponder on the things he has done.
Weapons of Mass destruction, could simply be glass vials and its too easy to dispose of them or to hide them anywhere. If a person can hide for a year (or more in some cases) then imagine what some glass vials could do?
My prediction:
100 years from now history books, and because humans expect everything overnight, they will assume that WMD's in Iraq never existed, or did quite some number of years before (like when the Israeli's blew up their nuclear reactor, whcih had been provided to them by France), but some archeologist excavating around Babylon will find some glass vials containing Anthrax...
Seriously, it would have been surprising if they had found them so soon.
But in this case, the cylons are now our computers run amok. "OK, while I can deal with this change, they never then touched on why they want to kill us? Because we wanted to kill them? Why do they want to kill us now? What does it benefit them? What computational values make them _want_ to expend the resources, et al to go to war with us? They just glanced that one over, and in the end, said, hey, the cylons want to kill us, so there."
They revolted 40 years before the mini-series, guess they became aware enough not to like being treated as slaves. They can expand upon the reaons for the attack if they make a mini-series, the reasons can be almost endless.
My borther, a complete newbie to Linux installed a program on SuSE and it turned up right away onn his menu...This on SuSE 8.0...
Why you're bringing in Christmas to show a compromise does not mean much imho.
Whats missing? Applications and applications, also drivers can still be a bit of pain.
My experience shows that no OS is perfect for Joe Sixpack, but Mac OSX would be the closest if not for even them suffering from the MS monopoly on the desktop...I am not worried as the market will re-address itself anyway, given the evolution of GNU/Linux and Open Source.
"Personal observation #2: All you parents and future parents pay attention to this. The kids who succeed are the ones whose parents actually show interest in their kids work. Some things that accomplish this is to make sure they are doing their homework, know what classes they are taking, and actually go to parent conferences."
Too true, and if the parents are fighting then get a divorce for the kids sake so that the time spent in fighting can be put into the children. So wish my parents had not decided to stay together because of me and my brothers! Vouching on this from first hand personal experience.
SUSE align themselves with just more than Gateway:). Don't like Gateway, but want a SUSE based server (man, why not desktop other than from Wal-mart?) then get an IBM perhaps. See where this is going:).
"Notice how they're not going after Alan Cox or Red Hat in the subpoenas? Looks like Red Hat's suit has given them some protection from SCO predation."
He's in Wales, not sure how a subpoena would be enforced across the ocean...Who would be responsible for board/food/flight arrangements?
SCO has not yet threatened the SEC, or other big government agencies if they are running Linux. That I think is one reason the other is that SCO aren't disrupting the money market to any great degree yet.
Its digusting that any form of corruption is allowed to go on, I'd start asking your senators too about this, no-one should manipulate the market illegally for even a cent. Its about time they got enough evidence to put McBide and Sontag in a cell with Bubba.
Are SCO/Sontag/McBride digging their own financial graves should the suit get thrown out as being baseless?
Whats the likely effect on Hollywood? Are they going to be scared of the SCO monster and back down, or will SCO have made another enemy that mobilises its army of lawyers?
Can the investment firms named also be sued? Like in class action lawsuit?
StarTux
Came too late
on
Kylix in Limbo
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
Borland simply came too late to the Linux market, I see many more people using QT/gtk and other native tools now and Kylix probably did not have anything that the developers wanted.
It even came too late to have the Neverwinter Nights Toolset ported and usable in Linux.
I was one of those who use to bug you about supporting SuSE on Ximian Desktop (you know I have forgotten the orginal name of Ximian lol, but the original desktop offering took awhile to launchon SuSE).
Funny how things turned out, from supporting RedHat primarily...:).
He is fed up with Linux users at University knowing much more about technology than he does, and he needs to maintain some air of being superior to the unpaid mass of students.
Slashdot Mirror
Always going to have detractors to any thought of a GNU/Linux non-Windows system actually doing well on the mainstream desktop. Ask any fellow Mac user about how long they put up with this from Windows users.
We have different flavors of icecream, why not have different flavors of operating systems or computers?
How do you know Linus did not release this before or after seeing LOTR:RotK? Or even during...
StarTux
"The real critique came when Bush decided to invade Iraq. The reason people generally opposed this in Europe is (I asume) that Saddam had made no real agressive moves, and thus the US/UK conducted an unprovoked aggression against Iraq."
:).
And people still discuss "if only" about Britain, USA and France taking action against Hitler in the 30's...Makes for interesting discussion, but thats all passed now.
"If viewed from as a state to state matter, a lot of things in the decision to invade are discussable. However, when viewing the invasion from a moral and philosophical point of view, there really isn't much to discuss."
Morally, if sanctions had been removed and he was allowed to continue on his merry way to re-armanent (and morally, scanctions would have had to have been removed at some point) as he would have done (before anyone says how do you know that, go and live in a country that lives under a real dictator, I mean live, not just visit as a no-nothing tourist, then you will get a greater appreciation of the psyche of dictators, the saying, "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" is so true and then they become delusional), what would he have targetted? Israel for a biological/nuclear attack, and if Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries had not rallied to his "saladin" side they too would have been attacked (arguably he could have attacked Saudi Arabia/Kuwait at the same time as Israel to try and neutralize the allied threat). You never mentioned any side to the argument on moral or philosphical grounds, apart from the the juicy quote
"To the best of my knowledge, Egyptian mummies and their relatives and friends and children and grandchildren and great grandchildren have been long dead and clues to the location of these artifacts died with them. That is the reason we are still finding things in Egypt. People who know the location of the WMDs are still alive. If we don't find anything within the next 10 years, it's unlikely that we'll find anything at all."
:).
Give the agents to one person and give them two weeks to get rid of them. Then kill that said person and everyone who is related to him, or is friends with him. Whats the chance of finding it then? Now that Saddam has been caught it will increase
I doubt he had a nuclear capability, especially after the Israeli's took out their nuclear capability, however biological or chemical agents could well have been hidden.
But, last thought...If he had remained in power, if the UN lifted sanctions, signed a peace treaty, would Saddam not have then begun to stockpile and to develop nuclear capabilities? Of course we will never know.
"According to Scott Ritter, former-UN weapons inspector who gave a talk at my school a while back."
Would be interesting if he could have imagined being sent by the League of Nations to Germany in 1935 to check on how well Germany was abiding Versailles treaty? Yes they would have seen a buildup of planes and pilots, but they would have explained it was for Lufthansa (many of the planes, like the He 111 were placed into passenger service). Imagine if the League of Nations had teeth, Germany got invaded and Hitler removed in 1936? WW2 would most likely have been avoided, Japan would probably be like N Korea is today, and people would still be arguing that it was the wrong thing to do, that there was no evidence that Hitler was re-arming, all he was doing was building up his civilian passenger fleet. Of course there are vast differences, but still similarities
They are all moot points and pointless
"Iraq had nothing to do with 7-11 attack. Even Paul Wolfowitz (deputy secretary of defense) can't say otherwise."
:). Always a possibility that they will never be found, not only because he may not have had them (actualyl doubt this, Saddam and his type wouldn't have given them up that easy), but because they could be very well hidden or totally destroyed.
Someone else has linked articles that say otherwise within this section.
"It's not know that Iraq had supported any terrorist attack in the world."
They did, answered by last section, go look for the articles as I did not save them.
"No massive destruction weapon was found yet in Iraq."
At least you said yet, this is very true
"Terrorism in Iraq started from null to today situation since President Bush anounced end of fights."
Terrorism or unrest?
Fact:
After Germany's surrender in WW2 quite a number of fiercly loyal Nazi's took up the cuase and started attacking/destroying things much the same way we see in Iraq. It took over 2-3 years to quell these and about another eight years before Germany (at least West Germany) became independant of allied control.
""Old Europe" countries foretold this situation will happen. USA reacted renaming french fries."
The French had belief they could control Saddam just as much as they thought they could control Hitler...
"Of course Old Europe also had important economical interests an Iraq, like USA."
Sad, but true to an extent. But cynically, why risk lives if your country won't get much out of it?
WMD's aren't just limited to Nukes :). Seems like many people were expecting a whole hanger full of nuclear weapons, but WMD's are limited to Nuke's, but include chemical and biological weapons, which can be much more easily concealed, in many cases in small glass vials.
Don't think Osama was ever forgotten...Just he is proving much harder to find. But I am sure if they keep at it, one day they will get him. As if you or anyone else on this board knows anything about the efforts to catch him, Saddam was caught a day ago, but they wanted to make 100% sure it was him first.
I agree, I really hope the US does not start saber waggling anymore than needed.
"But I'd much rather we didn't have to have sacrificed at all."
We all wish that, maybe one day people will find peaceful means to get the changes, or messages across as they want. Guess its about communication on one part.
Why are these getting moderated so high?
Its no secret that Saddam recieved aid from many countries, don't just pick on the US and Britain, in fact the ones to most fear more public scrutiny are Germany and France, but especially France as they supplied much more military gear to the Iraqi's. Indeed during the '91 Gulf War most French Mirages had to be used to patrol well away from the frontline as they gave out the same radar signature (and emitted same radar patterns) as the Iraqi Mirages.
But, lets take the years in CONTEXT, not with 20/20 hindsight. The Cold War was still very much going on, and many countries became the battle ground and only now are we paying the cost for the fall out of this.
Doubt many countries would really fear anything he revealed about past relations, but more about rhetoric as in returning to power, or maybe some message to his followers to make more attacks, perhaps this time with some WMD's.
And before people wonder where they are, keep an open mind as really who knows whether or not he ever had them.
"I wouldn't be surprised for a second if they pulled a "Lee Harvey Oswald" and have Saddam conveniently killed or "suicided"."
And Martyr him? Its a hard choice, keep him alive and risk terrorists trying to capture hostages for his release, or have him executed and have many die for his name. Personnally I hope he is kept alive on a place such as St. Helena, that way he can spend the rest of his life in isolation to ponder on the things he has done.
StarTux
Weapons of Mass destruction, could simply be glass vials and its too easy to dispose of them or to hide them anywhere. If a person can hide for a year (or more in some cases) then imagine what some glass vials could do?
My prediction:
100 years from now history books, and because humans expect everything overnight, they will assume that WMD's in Iraq never existed, or did quite some number of years before (like when the Israeli's blew up their nuclear reactor, whcih had been provided to them by France), but some archeologist excavating around Babylon will find some glass vials containing Anthrax...
Seriously, it would have been surprising if they had found them so soon.
StarTux
But in this case, the cylons are now our computers run amok. "OK, while I can deal with this change, they never then touched on why they want to kill us? Because we wanted to kill them? Why do they want to kill us now? What does it benefit them? What computational values make them _want_ to expend the resources, et al to go to war with us? They just glanced that one over, and in the end, said, hey, the cylons want to kill us, so there."
They revolted 40 years before the mini-series, guess they became aware enough not to like being treated as slaves. They can expand upon the reaons for the attack if they make a mini-series, the reasons can be almost endless.
My borther, a complete newbie to Linux installed a program on SuSE and it turned up right away onn his menu...This on SuSE 8.0...
Why you're bringing in Christmas to show a compromise does not mean much imho.
Whats missing? Applications and applications, also drivers can still be a bit of pain.
My experience shows that no OS is perfect for Joe Sixpack, but Mac OSX would be the closest if not for even them suffering from the MS monopoly on the desktop...I am not worried as the market will re-address itself anyway, given the evolution of GNU/Linux and Open Source.
"Personal observation #2: All you parents and future parents pay attention to this. The kids who succeed are the ones whose parents actually show interest in their kids work. Some things that accomplish this is to make sure they are doing their homework, know what classes they are taking, and actually go to parent conferences."
Too true, and if the parents are fighting then get a divorce for the kids sake so that the time spent in fighting can be put into the children. So wish my parents had not decided to stay together because of me and my brothers! Vouching on this from first hand personal experience.
Cool,
Mentioned this on the LinuxShow as individual lawsuits are going to be too expensive for most of us.
StarTux
Darl must be one of the worst CEO's in technical computer history (no shit Sherlock on my part).
As for IBM, why not let Darl dig his own grave? IBM have other things to do, like sale a few products, unlike SCO...
StarTux
SUSE align themselves with just more than Gateway :). Don't like Gateway, but want a SUSE based server (man, why not desktop other than from Wal-mart?) then get an IBM perhaps. See where this is going :).
Not one bit :). This is exactly one thing that Novell/SUSE want to have happen.
"very few people I know actually have working scanners on linux, this needs to be changed"
Same was true for Mac OSX at least for quite sometime.
Hopefulyl with Big Blue and now Novell this will also change for the better for Linux, IBM and Novell have a fair amount of clout imho.
"Notice how they're not going after Alan Cox or Red Hat in the subpoenas? Looks like Red Hat's suit has given them some protection from SCO predation."
He's in Wales, not sure how a subpoena would be enforced across the ocean...Who would be responsible for board/food/flight arrangements?
Simple:
SCO has not yet threatened the SEC, or other big government agencies if they are running Linux. That I think is one reason the other is that SCO aren't disrupting the money market to any great degree yet.
Its digusting that any form of corruption is allowed to go on, I'd start asking your senators too about this, no-one should manipulate the market illegally for even a cent. Its about time they got enough evidence to put McBide and Sontag in a cell with Bubba.
StarTux
First question I have is this:
Are SCO/Sontag/McBride digging their own financial graves should the suit get thrown out as being baseless?
Whats the likely effect on Hollywood? Are they going to be scared of the SCO monster and back down, or will SCO have made another enemy that mobilises its army of lawyers?
Can the investment firms named also be sued? Like in class action lawsuit?
StarTux
Borland simply came too late to the Linux market, I see many more people using QT/gtk and other native tools now and Kylix probably did not have anything that the developers wanted.
It even came too late to have the Neverwinter Nights Toolset ported and usable in Linux.
StarTux
Ahhh yes...
"Embrace, extend and extinguish"
Or in many cases it was simply:
"Embrace, extinguish"
Bet that felt so good to them when killing innovation with the knife of Monopoly +5 stuck in the back of these acquisitions.
StarTux
Can you use ipod on Windows without using either iTunes, or MusicMatch?
If so, why not at least use a different service, such as http://www.allofmp3.com
Apple seems a weird mix right now, some areas are pro-Open Source, others seem to be almost the opposite...
StarTux
Hi Nat,
I was one of those who use to bug you about supporting SuSE on Ximian Desktop (you know I have forgotten the orginal name of Ximian lol, but the original desktop offering took awhile to launchon SuSE).
Funny how things turned out, from supporting RedHat primarily...:).
StarTux
He is fed up with Linux users at University knowing much more about technology than he does, and he needs to maintain some air of being superior to the unpaid mass of students.